Election 2020

Trump's Conversation With Georgia Election Officials Shows His Conviction That He Won Is Impervious to Evidence

The president seems completely sincere, and he surrounds himself with advisers who reinforce his self-flattering fantasy.

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Did President Donald Trump commit a crime when he pressured Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to "find" the votes necessary to overturn President-elect Joe Biden's victory in that state? Probably not, but the reason does not reflect well on Trump.

It seems clear from the recording of Trump's one-hour telephone conversation with Raffensperger on Saturday that the president sincerely believes he actually won the election, notwithstanding the complete lack of credible evidence to support that belief. In his mind, he was not soliciting fraud but attempting to correct it.

Trump's evident sincerity casts doubt on the charge that he was intentionally encouraging Raffensperger to commit a felony, as required to convict him of soliciting election fraud under Georgia law. But it also highlights the president's extraordinary capacity to believe anything, no matter how improbable, that makes him look good while rejecting out of hand anything, no matter how credible, that makes him look bad.

Trump begins with the conviction that he won the election. Although the official count shows that Biden won Georgia by about 12,000 votes, Trump knows that can't be true. He told Raffensperger he actually "won this election by hundreds of thousands of votes," because "there's no way I lost Georgia." The only possible explanation, as far as Trump is concerned, is that Biden's supporters cheated.

Exactly how they cheated is of little concern to Trump, who floated a litany of discredited rumors and conspiracy theories that Raffensperger and his office's general counsel, Ryan Germany, politely but firmly refuted. Trump was unfazed, because he knows he won. Desperate to validate that belief, he eagerly accepts even the most dubious claims of election fraud.

"This may or may not be true," Trump says at one point. "This just came up this morning, that they are burning their ballots, that they are shredding, shredding ballots and removing equipment. They're changing the equipment on the Dominion machines and, you know, that's not legal. And they supposedly shredded—I think they said 300 pounds of, 3,000 pounds of ballots. And that just came to us as a report today. And it is a very sad situation."

Trump starts by acknowledging that the rumors he describes "may not be true." But within a few sentences, he has convinced himself that the allegations of shredding and equipment swaps are reliable enough to establish "a very sad situation."

Later he practically begs for confirmation of the allegations. "Do you think it's possible that they shredded ballots in Fulton County?" he says. "Because that's what the rumor is. And also that Dominion [Voting Systems] took out machines. That Dominion is really moving fast to get rid of their, uh, machinery. Do you know anything about that? Because that's illegal, right?"

Germany, because he lives in the real world, cannot give Trump the lifeline he needs. "No, Dominion has not moved any machinery out of Fulton County," he says. "They have not been shredding any ballots. There was an issue in Cobb County, where they were doing normal office shredding, getting rid of old stuff, and we investigated that. But this stuff [is] from, you know, past elections."

Trump is unmoved. "It doesn't pass the smell test because we hear they're shredding thousands and thousands of ballots, and now what they're saying [is], 'Oh, we're just cleaning up the office.' You know." Now Trump has gone from presenting what he himself described as unverified rumors to not only believing those rumors but accusing Raffensperger, a Republican and Trump supporter, of covering up the truth.

Trump does not understand why Raffensperger is resisting his efforts to find the votes he needs to avoid admitting defeat. "You're a Republican," he says with dismay, as if that fact alone should make Raffensperger more cooperative. It does not enter Trump's mind that Raffensperger has public responsibilities that go beyond party allegiance. Those responsibilities include investigating claims of election fraud, but they also include rejecting such claims when they prove to be unfounded.

Similarly, Trump repeatedly calls himself a "schmuck" for endorsing Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp, another Republican and Trump supporter. In Trump's view, Kemp's refusal to accept the claim that Biden stole the election shows he is unworthy of the office he occupies.

Trump describes another rumor, based on a misleadingly edited video that supposedly shows a Georgia election worker counting "18,000 ballots," "all for Biden," "three times." Germany says agents from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation and the FBI looked into that allegation and found no basis for it. "They're either dishonest or incompetent," Trump declares.

Trump asserts that "dead people voted" in Georgia, and "I think the number is close to 5,000 people." That estimate, he says, is based on a comparison of voter rolls with obituaries, a method that can err in various ways: Sometimes people die soon after casting absentee ballots, for example, or voters have the same names and birth years as dead people. "The actual number [was] two," Raffensperger says. "Two people that were dead that voted. So that's wrong."

Trump can't believe it. "In one state [Michigan, supposedly], we have a tremendous amount of dead people [voting]," he says. "So I don't know—I'm sure we do in Georgia, too. I'm sure we do in Georgia, too."

I could go on, but you get the idea. Trump's conviction that he won is impervious to evidence.

The same could be said for many of the president's followers, who seem to believe the sheer volume of allegations shows something nefarious happened. Even if some of the specific charges don't hold water, they figure, there are bound to be enough illegal votes to change the outcome. The alternative is unthinkable.

Trump's self-flattering fantasy probably would not have persisted for so long or gained the following it has if he were not surrounded by people who reinforce his delusion that he won the election. During the call with Raffensperger, Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and two lawyers, Cleta Mitchell and Kurt Hilbert, repeatedly chimed in to feed Trump's suspicions and cast doubt on Raffensperger's assurances. Pro-Trump lawyers such as Rudy Giuliani, Sidney Powell, and Lin Wood spin increasingly baroque and bizarre conspiracy theories to explain why Trump was denied a second term. GOP lawmakers, including at least a dozen senators and nearly two-thirds of House Republicans, either endorse those theories or lend credence to them by claiming that electoral votes in "disputed states" cannot be trusted. Vice President Mike Pence neither acknowledges nor denies Trump's defeat, saying only that he "shares the concerns of millions of Americans about voter fraud and irregularities in the last election."

The result is entirely predictable: Polls suggest a substantial percentage of Americans, including most Republicans, think the election was "rigged" to install an illegitimate president. But it didn't have to be this way. Since Trump seems constitutionally incapable of conceding Biden's victory, that responsibility fell to his advisers and to leading politicians from his party. With some notable exceptions, they have failed to tell the president the truth or done it too late to check the spread of his outlandish claims.

The upshot is that on Wednesday, when Congress officially tallies the election results, Republicans will be forced to choose between alienating Trump's fans by acknowledging reality and appeasing them by joining Trump in his fantasy world. It's a no-win situation for which they have no one but themselves to blame.

NEXT: Trump Fishes for Votes in Georgia as GOP Senators Fight Over Election Certification

Election 2020 Campaigns/Elections Voting Fraud Conspiracy Theories Donald Trump Joe Biden Georgia

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308 responses to “Trump's Conversation With Georgia Election Officials Shows His Conviction That He Won Is Impervious to Evidence

  1. Glad to see another in a long line of turd articles that say exactly the same thing over and over.

    Anyway good luck nerds I’m gonna sign off because this place is a tomb and it’s time to prepare for what comes next.

    1. Make sure you and all of the other internet tough guys around here come find me first when “what comes next” happens.

      I don’t think I’ll need to leave a light on, since none of you are going to do a damn thing.

      1. Why, you gonna carry around an illegal pistol, pussy out like a bitch when you get confronted, try to attack somebody from behind, and then get your bicep blown off and squeal like stuck pig for the cops to come rescue you like Gaige Grosskreutz? Or maybe you’ll go buy an AK-47 you don’t know how to use and get your idiotic head blown off your shoulders trying to pull somebody out of their car and beat them to death when you have them outnumbered 200:1 like Garret Foster. LMAO. Oh wait, my mistake, you’re counting on the military to unleash Apache attack helicopters on Trump supporters, I forgot.

        “Internet tough guy” indeed.

        1. This article is total Bullshit. Tens of thousands of illegal votes were cast in Georgia. It takes time to track them all down, and the leftists and libertarileftists here on reason don't want to allow the time to do this, and just simply dismiss it with "no evidence."

          He said more than 20,000 people who had moved out of state cast illegal Georgia ballots in November: He found at least 4,926 people who cast absentee or early ballots in Georgia but were registered to vote in another state; he found another 15,700 voters who had filed change-of-address forms to move to another state before Election Day.

          And he listed the voters in question in hundreds of pages of spreadsheets printed and accompanying his sworn statement.

          The other analyst – Bryan Geels, a certified public accountant who owns a data analytics firm – made other startling claims. Analyzing similar data, Geels found more than 305,701 people who he said requested absentee ballots more than 180 days before the November election – in violation of state law.

          Geels also found 66,247 voters who appeared to have registered to vote before their 17th birthday – again in violation of state law. And he found 10,315 dead voters and numerous other problems, like scores of people who appeared to have voted before their absentee ballots were issued.

          https://www.ajc.com/politics/election/georgia-rips-trumps-voter-fraud-claims-in-court/P6TI4J3CKVDQZMNVG66Q2GBQCE/

          1. Did President Donald Trump commit a crime when he pressured Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to “find” the votes necessary to overturn President-elect Joe Biden’s victory in that state? Probably not, but the reason does not reflect well on Trump.

            Jacob “Sullen Dick” once again fights hard against a trump re-lection and condemns Trump’s conversation with Georgia SOS. Completely dismisses the poll watcher affidavits (which defeats the purpose of having poll watchers) and the extreme irregularities where 10s of thousands of votes are likely fraudulent where biden’s lead is only ~12k votes. Pause and investigate? Nope! Jacob “Sullen Dick” desires we move forward, while Joe Biden approaches from behind, cock in hand. Jacob is ready to go down on Biden’s “doctor” wife while Biden detonates his nuts inside of Sullen Dick with a hot juicy leftist ideological load so deep and so voluminous that Sullen Dick can reguritate the load right here – on the pages of Reason.com

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            2. Man, I did a quick scroll through the comments and get flashed with fucking dick pics. I guess I deserve that for bothering to click on another Sideshow Sullum load of garbage.

              This is what it’s come to…LOL

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                1. Time for all caps because I was at work and missed the party:

                  THE ONLY THING IMPERVIOUS TO EVIDENCE ARE THE RETARDS ON THE LEFT.

                  There couldn’t be more evidence. It’s terrifying how much evidence there is. And tonight, Trump will lay it all out and the numbers don’t lie, and then Sullum will write another retarded article that is as bad as the Washington Post with just slightly more pretend thoughtfulness.

                  https://www.scribd.com/document/489742970/Election-Evidence-Summary

                  1. fuck off tulpa and tulpa

                    1. Still obsessed with people whose names start with a “T”. It may be incurable.

        2. No, I’ll just fuck you up with whatever I have close at hand, being that you and most of your cult are morbidly obese losers who have never fought a day in your lives.

          1. The strap on your wife bangs you with isn’t going to do much damage.

            1. Get $192 hourly from Google!…Yes this is Authentic since I just got my first payout of $24413 and this was just of a single week… I have also bought my Range Rover Velar right after this payout…It is really cool job I have ever had and you won’t forgive yourself if you do not check it… =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= USA ONLINE JOBS

          2. Bring it bitch! I’ll bite your nose off then fuck you death through your open sinus cavity. You’ll be gurgling your last on my giant load of hot jizz. Or maybe I’ll pop your eye out with my bayonet, break the bone in the back of the socket with the hilt and then blow my load inside your brains while you seizure out. Bring it bitch! I’m not here to fight. I’m here to make you suffer and then to have you listen to me laugh while your life extinguishes. The last thing you’ll ever see is me laughing with an “oh” face.

            1. you couldn’t dent a marshmallow with your tiny dick

              1. I think you have a chode. 😀 It’s almost always that way when someone is obsessed with the penis size of others.

          3. Name the place. I’ve told you more than once before. I will fist fight you anywhere in this country at your convenience. You’re not a little pussy bitch running your mouth on the internet while accusing others of being “internet tuff gais” so you’ll surely name a time and place, right?

            1. I will fist fight you anywhere in this country at your convenience.

              Sure you will, buddy. Sure ya will.

              1. I have made this offer multiple times. cytotoxic, in this iteration as De Oppresso Liber, has thus far refused to name a place or time. And yet constantly accuses others of being internet tuff gais. Seems pretty pathetic to me to offer a fight and then not follow through when someone accepts. Leaving aside the irony of offering a fight while accusing others of being phony internet tuff gais. It’s interesting you’re doubtful of my sincerity after accepting his challenge of a fistfight multiple times, but not his after offering a challenge of a fistfight multiple times and declining to ever follow up. I don’t think you’re a sock though. You’re retarded in unique ways and lack cytotoxic’s constantly rhetorical tics. Must be nice for him to have an e-cheerleader I guess. He hasn’t divulged his sexual orientation, but we know he’s a morbidly obese Canadian, so you guys just might make a match.

                1. It’s interesting you’re doubtful of my sincerity after accepting his challenge of a fistfight multiple times, but not his after offering a challenge of a fistfight multiple times and declining to ever follow up.

                  It’s sad if that sorts of thing interests you. Anyways, I don’t particularly care one way or another about the various pissing matches and blood feuds everyone here seems to hold for each other. I’m just saying that even a spastic like you wouldn’t spend the time, money, and effort to travel to Nome, AK or some shit just to beat up a stranger in a McDonald’s parking lot.

                  So why lie? What do you gain besides the honor of being the toughest keyboard warrior on a weird little corner of the Internet?

                  1. it’s tulpa. hIs fat ass has nothing better to do.

            2. This article is just more TDS induced noise.
              Congress is voting on the 6th.
              They can reject or accept electors. Insisting that it’s impossible to reject Biden electors won’t stop it, and insisting that they will reject for certain won’t make that happen either.
              I hope they reject, but so far I’m not seeing the numbers required to make that happen.
              We’ll see, but with dozens of Representatives and a dozen Senators on board with the objection, it’s definitely possible.
              Especially given the instant hero status for GOP member if they do.

              1. It isn’t possible. The Democratically-controlled House would have to vote to reject the electors from the states in question. That isn’t going to happen.

                At this point Trump’s are down to attempting a coup by martial law. That’s all he has left.

                1. No.
                  Acceptance requires an affirmative vote.
                  In other words, in the scenario you describe the House accepts, the Senate Rejects.
                  Electors not accepted by both chambers are rejected

                  1. You are simply wrong about that.

                    1. The state legislators can reject their electors:
                      “While all state legislatures have currently opted to appoint electors based on the popular vote of the state (or districts in the case of Nebraska and Maine), the Constitution does not provide for the appointment of elector by popular vote, leaving instead the manner of selection to the legislatures of each state.
                      The Supreme Court stressed this fundamental of our constitutional republic more than a century ago in McPherson v. Blacker, writing: “The question before us is not one of policy but of power, and while public opinion had gradually brought all the States as matter of fact to the pursuit of a uniform system of popular election by general ticket, that fact does not tend to weaken” the reality that previously, state legislatures chose electors by a variety of methods, including appointment by legislative vote.”
                      Those legislatures should reject any electors if fraud is obvious. Period. Why should Zuckerberg and Soros and Clinton and Romney have a bigger say in our elections than actual taxpayers who don’t get to live in palaces and fly around on private jets?

                2. At this point Trump’s are down to attempting a coup by martial law. That’s all he has left.

                  Trump knows he will lose the vote in the House.

                  The vote in Congress is about leaving a legal record of the challenges and forcing representatives to go on the record where they stand. To many people, it seems likely that we will gather more evidence of fraud over the coming months and years, and we want to be able to hold representatives politically accountable for their choices and positions.

                  That’s a perfectly reasonable and democratic thing to do. It has nothing to do with coups or martial laws. Your violent fantasies are absurd and disturbing.

                  1. It’s absolutely a test of loyalty to Trump. History will not judge kindly those who show loyalty to Trump.

                    1. Lol. Just the opposite. In two years, when the Dominion boys and the Hart Intercivic Group have been broken up, and maybe some of these election fraudsters have gone to jail, everyday American voters will never forgive the Democrats for the Biden clown show or the ensuing Kamala side show.

                    2. It’s absolutely a test of loyalty to Trump.

                      It’s also a test of loyalty to the American people.

                      History will not judge kindly those who show loyalty to Trump.

                      History will not judge kindly those who enabled Harris/Biden to come to power and who keep making excuses for the Democrat party machine.

          4. There are more of us than there are of you.

            And you’re just a weak liberal anyway…I’ll bet you eat nothing but twigs and berries all day. 😉

    2. It’s not like Trump has stopped trying to overturn the election, so why isn’t Sullum allowed to write about each new development in the two-month-long saga?

      1. Because he’s supposed to write about what they feel to be important from their point of view. Anything else is communist propaganda.

        1. So, Sullum should write about whatever OAN is covering that day.

      2. Sullum isn’t “writing about” anything of substance, he is simply parroting propaganda.

    3. Nice! Only a few more of you Trump losers need to have a meltdown and go away and we can be back to normal.

      1. Sorry chief, we aren’t going away. You guys were sloppy with your fraud and got caught. Now you’re going to be stuck with us for as long as Sleepy Joe is sleeping in the white house.

        1. Meh, when Trump isn’t President anymore, it’s going to get pretty boring coming here to defend him against charges of cheating on the golf course.

          1. We’ll still be able to rub your noses in the bullshit you’ve been dropping on the proverbial living room carpet for 4 years and point out each and every time your pathetic bootlicking of President Harris contrasts so starkly with your histrionic theatrics with every emanation from the Trump administration.

            1. I guess. You’ll discover that I won’t defend President Harris.

              1. Cunt without strength of character to praise it’s asserted best choice says what?

                1. lay off the drugs kid

      2. “a libertarian” who thinks a country with a senile Democrat President controlled by the CCP and a few globalists is normal. Riiiiiight. Ok. Great.

      3. Nice! Only a few more of you Trump losers need to have a meltdown and go away and we can be back to normal.

        By “back to normal”, you mean putting the US back on a path to economic and social ruin? Yes, we’ll go back to that.

    4. They are really playing defense heavily. I wonder why? If there was no controversy, they’d be intentionally “ignoring” Trump.

      1. Nobody is going to ignore that POTUS is attempting to overthrow an election. It would be insane for a political writer to ignore such a thing.

        1. If it were truly baseless, then it would just be a sideshow to write about periodically. Not multiple fucking times a day. Sideshow Sullum has developed a serious OCD along with his TDS.

    5. Anyway good luck nerds I’m gonna sign off because this place is a tomb and it’s time to prepare for what comes next.

      Well…..bye. Good riddance.

      Looks like we have our Trump 2024 slogan. I can picture the red hats, with white “Impervious To Evidence” lettering.

      1. Tell us more about how Russia stole the election with 100 grand in Facebook ads and the Mueller indictments are dropping imminently, sarcasmic.

        1. Seems odd for you to reject that premise when you accept other election theft narratives with much less evidence.

      2. I can picture the red hats, with white “Impervious To Evidence” lettering.

        You keep talking about “evidence”; where is the evidence that there was no significant fraud in the election? Please share it!

    6. Donald Trump killed the individual mandate, cut taxes and regulations, and broke a long streak of going to war. In other words, he rendered conservatives and libertarians in Washington largely irrelevant. They just want to *talk* about such policy goals. You can’t ACKTUALLY do that stuff!

    7. Have you ever called any other pos politician a liar . Or they don’t lie?

    8. These Republicans are endorsing Venezuela-style ad hockery to keep their group in power illegitimately. Markets seem to be writing off the GOP insurgency as political shenanigans that are just for show. It’s way worse than that. The former “law and order” party has morphed into a crime and disorder party that cannot be business-friendly if its only priority is to retain power at any cost. This is a metastasis of the crony capitalism Trump has practiced for the last four years. It rewards only those on the winning side, while punishing those who play by the rules.

    9. Donald Trump is an overgrown combination of a spoiled brat and a schoolyard bully, as well as a man-child who cannot accept it when things don’t go his way. There were almost 2 dozen or more lawsuits filed by Donald Trump that were thrown right the hell out of court due to lack of evidence of fraud. He refuses to concede the 2020 POTUS election, which is even more disgusting. Donald Trump does not have even a modicum of common decency in him, and neither do most of his supporters.

    10. What a spectacle of insanity these comments are. Can’t something be done by this site to keep the comments sane and rational and relevant? It must be so discouraging to write an intelligent piece and see evidence that only the seriously mentally impaired are reading.

    11. There is no evidence that Trump is the legitimate winner for the same reason that there is no evidence that Trump is the legitimate loser:

      Because our elections are insecure and unverifiable.

      For Sullum to say that Trump is arguing “against evidence” is false.

    12. “It does not enter Trump’s mind that Raffensperger has public responsibilities that go beyond party allegiance”
      I am in no way disagreeing that if you hold a state or local office, your ultimate responsibility should be to uphold the laws of said State/Local government, as the author alludes to above. What I will say is that Trump’s assumption that Republican state officials will instinctively bend the knee stims form the fact that it has happened and is still currently happening. Unfortunately our already deeply flawed Representative Democracy has amounted to tribalism and group think at the highest levels. It’s honestly pretty depressing that our elected public servants are willing to sell out their countrymen (and women) to satisfy their respective political faction or to line their pockets with our money (which pretty much has become the norm). Not sure what it’s going to take for things to change, if they ever, but it’s for damn sure terrifying to watch play out. Go Bucs!

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    14. Someone who I think knows the author sent me this article. It corroborates my thinking exactly, which I posted yesterday on Facebook.

      EVERYTHING about this phone call can be explained through this lens. trump believes he got hundreds of thousands more LEGITIMATE votes than Biden did. So, by asking even for the specific number, trump was essentially saying, all I need you to do is “find me” this small fraction of the real votes that I got. I’m not asking you to falsify anything.

      As he always says, “I won! And you know I won!”

      I’m actually amazed at how people are interpreting this call otherwise. I HATE trump! But this is NOT definitive evidence that he was pushing Raffensberger to manufacture votes.

  2. Trump, who floated a litany of discredited rumors and conspiracy theories”
    Discredited is not the same as proven. not looking at possible fraud then claiming its discredited is as bad as Biden saying the stories of his son were discounted when they were not even investigated.

    Trump may have lost but now they know they can cheat anytime since no one will look into because hearsay discredited it.

    1. 60 courts looked at it. multiple recounts looked at it. 50 state secretaries of state looked at it.

      Everyone fucking looked at it, and found it to be kosher.

      Since you did not read the article, I’ll quote the part you need to absorb:

      “I could go on, but you get the idea. Trump’s conviction that he won is impervious to evidence.

      The same could be said for many of the president’s followers, who seem to believe the sheer volume of allegations shows something nefarious happened. Even if some of the specific charges don’t hold water, they figure, there are bound to be enough illegal votes to change the outcome. The alternative is unthinkable.”

      1. “60 courts looked at it. multiple recounts looked at it. 50 state secretaries of state looked at it. Everyone fucking looked at it, and found it to be kosher.”

        I am pretty sure that matters not one iota to true-believers.

      2. “60 courts looked at it.”

        Do you trolls ever get tired of lying? Or is it a form of entertainment?

      3. 60 courts looked at it.

        Which court heard evidence in a lawsuit with discovery?

          1. Ludwig’s conclusion in his ruling reiterated that all of Trump’s complaints about the Wisconsin Legislature’s “chosen manner” of conducting the election should have been surfaced before the election took place

            So, dismissed on procedural grounds, with no discovery.

            Why do you cite articles that disprove your own points literally every fucking time you try? By pure chance you should get this right at least occasionally. Do you hope nobody will read them, or are you legitimately so stupid and illiterate that you actually think you’re helping yourself?

            1. Pre election no standing. Post election laches. That’s how an election is stolen.

              1. Common alt-right refrain. Doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

                1. Common Democratic Underground refrain. Doesn’t address the issue.

            2. Several of the lawsuits have been thrown out for lack of evidence.

              1. No, they actually have not.

                1. Yes, they have been dismissed on the merits for failure to adduce evidence. Not in all cases, but in several.

              1. This doesn’t say what you think it says, cytotoxic/De Oppresso Liber. Do you ever actually read any of your cites? You have a quite literally unblemished record of linking to materials to verify your point that do not, in fact, verify anything you’ve actually said.

            3. He allowed the case to be heard, including evidence and discovery, then dismissed it with prejudice.

              You previously claimed, without basis, that no Trump cases got to the point where they could present evidence (as if that made their losses somehow better, it doesn’t). That is not true, and I have proven thus.

      4. 60 courts that didn’t look at evidence and recounts using the same flawed method counted the first time and do you really think any of the 50 state secretaries would ever admit to having a flawed system, it would never happen

        1. “I could go on, but you get the idea. Trump’s conviction that he won is impervious to evidence.

          The same could be said for many of the president’s followers, who seem to believe the sheer volume of allegations shows something nefarious happened. Even if some of the specific charges don’t hold water, they figure, there are bound to be enough illegal votes to change the outcome. The alternative is unthinkable.”

          1. That pretty much sums it all up.

            1. 9 out of 10 socks agree. Orange man bad!

              1. Meanwhile Trumpistas wander the streets like zombies, moaning “Fraaauuuuddd!” “Fraaauuuddd!”

                1. Well Biden was worried enough about fraud to announce a week before the election he had the most extensive voter fraud team in American political history.

                  1. Good thing too considering the lengths Trump went to to steal the election.

                2. RESIST!
                  Not my president!
                  IMPEACH!
                  #NeverBiden

                  1. This is good every time you post it, but I suspect the people against whom it is aimed are far too stupid to recognize it as a parody of themselves. Which is strange, since sarcasmic is a brilliant farceur and parodist by his own estimation.

        2. Cobb County, GA did a signature match audit. No fraud. Whoops.

          Also, several courts threw out lawsuits for “lack of evidence.”

          https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-campaign-cant-find-a-judge-who-will-ignore-facts-but-its-trying

          1. The fraud was in Fulton county where Atlanta is.

      5. 60 courts looked at it. multiple recounts looked at it. 50 state secretaries of state looked at it.

        Well yeah. They recounted the fraudulent votes. Of course they are going to count up just as previously. 50 state secretaries of state did not look at this.

        Everyone fucking looked at it, and found it to be kosher.

        It was not found to be kosher - at all!

        He said more than 20,000 people who had moved out of state cast illegal Georgia ballots in November: He found at least 4,926 people who cast absentee or early ballots in Georgia but were registered to vote in another state; he found another 15,700 voters who had filed change-of-address forms to move to another state before Election Day.

        And he listed the voters in question in hundreds of pages of spreadsheets printed and accompanying his sworn statement.

        The other analyst – Bryan Geels, a certified public accountant who owns a data analytics firm – made other startling claims. Analyzing similar data, Geels found more than 305,701 people who he said requested absentee ballots more than 180 days before the November election – in violation of state law.

        Geels also found 66,247 voters who appeared to have registered to vote before their 17th birthday – again in violation of state law. And he found 10,315 dead voters and numerous other problems, like scores of people who appeared to have voted before their absentee ballots were issued.

        More time to gather evidence is needed. Yet the proceed on as if it's not a big deal. Further, the affidavits from hundreds of poll watchers were simply dismissed, completely defeating the purpose of having poll watchers. Make no mistake the right will be employing such tactics next time. And I'll be manufacturing mail in ballots, in mass numbers and placed in suitcases, Identical to those placed under tables and counted in the middle of the night with zero oversight.

        Since you did not read the article, I’ll quote the part you need to absorb:

        “I could go on, but you get the idea. Trump’s conviction that he won is impervious to evidence.

        No, your conviction, and the rest of the libertarileftists here is impervious to evidence that Biden in fact did not win, and certainly not Georgia, if we could take the time to investigate these issues.

        The same could be said for many of the president’s followers, who seem to believe the sheer volume of allegations shows something nefarious happened. Even if some of the specific charges don’t hold water, they figure, there are bound to be enough illegal votes to change the outcome.

        That's correct! You got it! There likely is enough illegal votes to change the outcome. Certainly in Georgia. But it takes a lot of time to prove. Time we don't have, and time the left doesn't want to allow. But that's fine! We can play the same game next time. We can MAKE this the game.

        1. They stripped the machines and started pulverizing ballots in Georgia in violation of federal election laws as soon as they knew that people were on to them. Dominion and the Zuckerberg squad were targeting Georgia particularly because of the two Senate seats up for grabs. They used illegal tabulations on overseas servers (using overseas servers is illegal btw) to rig the election but here’s the great part: Trump and the Republicans, thanks to a summer of burning, looting, and rioting across the country and Biden’s terrible campaigning, was doing so well that they had to fake a water main break and GET BUSY with the suitcases to get him a 12,000 vote lead. Honest people do not do any of the things Georgia has done since first being asked about election fraud, and you know what? SULLUM AND THE REST OF THE LEFT KNOWS THAT. Stop lying. If it went like that for Hillary the winners of Antifa would be burning down Washington DC right now.

      6. 60 courts looked at it. multiple recounts looked at it. 50 state secretaries of state looked at it. Everyone fucking looked at it, and found it to be kosher.

        They merely found it not actionable.

        “I could go on, but you get the idea. Trump’s conviction that he won is impervious to evidence.

        I have yet to see any evidence that the election was carried out properly. You’re welcome to share it. “Courts chose not to act” is not evidence.

  3. For those keeping score at home, this makes Sullum’s 37th article on Trump’s election in 34 days.

    Yes, he is averaging more than one article PER DAY.

    He’s a Koch-sucker of some vintage, but you get the impression from this level of obsession that he’d do it even for free.

    1. Sullum’s 37th article on Trump’s election loss in 34 days.

      FTFY

      you seem extra triggered today little bitch. 5 o’clock somewhere eh?

      1. You added a word that didn’t change the meaning of what I said. But uh, yeah, sure… 5 o clock somewhere.

    2. For those keeping score at home, this makes 60 courtroom losses for the Trump cult.

      1. For those keeping score at home, cytotoxic, seen here in his iteration as De Oppresso Liber, still thinks the Mueller report made a finding that Russia colluded with the Trump administration to steal the 2016 election. After spending 4 years telling this lie even after the Mueller report was released saying the exact opposite of what he claims, he now insists that anyone questioning the sacrosanctity of American elections is a traitor.

        Lmfao. Oh cytotoxic. Never change.

        By the way, still waiting for that Apache attack helicopter to come get me. Or you can get off your fat faggot ass and do it yourself. You’re not the internet tuff gai who makes empty threats, so I know you’ll follow up.

        1. Red herring.

          1. No less so than bringing up court cases that have nothing to do with Sullum’s obsessive coverage of a non-issue.

            1. You are wrong about…well everything.

              Impressive. The highest achieving moron.

              1. Actually, he’s not.

                Asserting “laches” is not the same as addressing the evidence. But you knew that, since you’re well informed.

                1. From Trump’s lawyers in PA:

                  “Petitioners do not allege, and there is no evidence of, any fraud in connection with the challenged ballots; Petitioners do not allege, and there is no evidence of, any misconduct in connection with the challenged ballots; Petitioners do not allege, and there is no evidence of, any impropriety in connection with the challenged ballots; Petitioners do not allege, and there is no evidence of, any undue influence committed with respect to the challenged ballots.”

                  Isn’t that funny?

                  1. They were asking the court to rule that votes that came in after the cut-off date were illegal. They knew the court would not rule on fraud.

                    So, not funny. Sad actually. Sad that the secretary of state in Pennsylvania thinks her beliefs are more important than the will of the Pennsylvania voters.

                  2. Which lawsuit is that excerpted from? The one in Bucks County, PA?
                    “Petitioners, the Trump campaign and RNC, petition a review of the Bucks County Board of Elections’s counting of absentee ballots. Petitioners allege that defendant accepted ballots with date or address defects, or with unsealed secrecy sleeves, as valid votes. Petitioners seek a reversal of this decision.”

                    Or the one in Montgomery County, PA that was disputing 592 absentee ballots?
                    “Petitioners, Donald J. Trump for President, the RNC, Heidelbaugh for Attorney General, Garrity for PA, and Republican state house candidate Daniel Wissert, request that the Court reverse the purported decision by the Montgomery Court Board of Elections to deny Petitioners’ objections to counting absentee ballots that fail to include all of the required information (i.e. signature, address, and/or date of execution) on the outer declaration envelope. Petitioners objected to 600 such ballots and claim this decision is in violation of 25 P.S. sections 3146.6(a) and 3150.16(a).”

    3. For those keeping score at home, Trump made an ethically challenged phone call, and Sullum wrote about this new development in the saga.

      Maybe if Trump would stop, Sullum would stop.

      1. For those keeping score at home, The White Knight, De Oppresso Liber, and Ham Sandwich are all sockpuppet accounts owned by the same person, who previously went by the screen name cytotoxic, and this very disturbed person is very, very invested in defending Sullum’s extraordinarily unhealthy obsession with Trump, to the point of inventing issues that are not actually issues and lying about things that are transcribed in detail and do not actually say what he says they say.

        1. No one is real but you.

          In reality, you guys are backwater dolts who are in the minority. Ironically, you have become the obnoxious minority that you love to hate.

    4. Seems about right since Trump is all over the news. They have to write about something and keep articles up and spread the truth.

  4. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    Following rioting on New Year’s Eve Thursday, Portland, Oregon Mayor Ted Wheeler expressed a desire to enforce stricter penalties on repeat offenders who commit violent acts and vandalize property.

    In a press conference on Friday, Wheeler attributed the rioting on New Year’s Eve to “violent antifa and anarchists” who broke windows, spray-painted, and caused thousands of dollars worth of damage.

    93% peaceful. Trump’s fault. Right wing agitators. Antifa doesn’t exist. There is no violence. Everything is fine.

    I’m trying to think of how many bullshit tropes Wheeler just reversed in one statement.

    1. Sullum, sarcasmic, sarcasmic’s 3 sockpuppets, cytotoxic, and cytotoxic’s 6 sockpuppets have all assured me that Trump supporters are on the verge of fomenting a violent insurrection. Remember, right wing violence is the REAL threat.

      1. If Trump called on his supporters to form a Trump militia, do you think they would? I know Nardz would cheerfully commit murder for Dear Leader, and I suspect you would too.

        1. Couldn't find them in the streets. Where are they? I mean - I wish they were there. But they are not. But I see Antifa everywhere. The violent militant arm of the radical left. Antifa have their militia. So reality isn't consistent with your claim.

        2. If Trump called on his supporters to form a Trump militia, do you think they would?

          No, because they have jobs and families.

          1. That’s probably the name the media will give to the protesters on Jan 6

          2. If Biden sets foot in the White House it’s THE END OF THE WORLD! You won’t have a job or a family! It’s a call to arms! Kill Democrats! Kill them all!

            1. By the way, that was sarcasm. Unlike Nardz I don’t condone murder.

            2. It’s not the fraud that will incite war. It’s the fraudulent inauguration followed by (per Fauci) “California – style lockdowns for every state” and a majority of people being put out of work.
              Any objective person would be able to predict that is a recipe for war.

              1. No doubt they’ll try but there’s no way to enforce it beyond withholding federal funds from the states. My state didn’t shut down and I doubt it will.

              2. The American Revolution was unique in that the people who revolted weren’t hungry. Usually people don’t do that until they get hungry. So if people start literally starving as a result of the government reaction to the pandemic opportunistic power grab, then yeah. You may have a point.

            3. Now you’re talking!

        3. I would gleefully kill any of the LARPing Antifa terrorists you spent the past year defending if they took one step onto my land or laid one finger on me or my property. That has nothing to do with Trump though. I doubt very much that you’re going to ever get off your drunken lard ass and stop fucking your underage daughter long enough to play act like Garrett Foster or Gaige Grosskreutz between cashing your welfare check, so you probably don’t have anything to worry about.

          1. You need professional help.

            1. Yessiree. Not the Antifa terrorists who tried to trap dozens of people inside a building and burn them alive. Those are peaceful protestors who you spent an entire year defending and castigating anyone who opposed them as a fascist. No, I need professional help for issuing fair warning that I will gleefully kill those people if they decide to fuck around and find out on my private property. There’s an easy way to make sure you don’t get your face punched in. Stay the fuck off my property. Of course you’re a gutless pathetic pussy bitch worm who whinges about people walking around in public without masks being responsible for the death of your grandma. So as I said, you probably have nothing to worry about. Keep those weepy obit templates handy though. Because I will not lose a second of sleep or experience the briefest moment of report ripping your brownshirt footsoldiers to pieces with my bare hands.

      2. Um, actually, yes, they are. I have two “Patriot” friends on FB that I went to high school with that have assured me there will be violence. Would you like me to doxx them so you can personally message them yourself? I wish we could put up screenshots in the comments here, I would show you the FB conversation I had with those morons today.

        1. You can host screenshots at any number of third party photo hosts and post the results here. Try gyazo or prnt.sc. Unless you’re making shit up again like the retarded lying piece of shit that you are. But surely that can’t be the case?

      3. Seems like left and right wing violence are both credible threats.

        1. Were you asleep all goddamn summer? The left-wing threat of violence isn’t a threat, it’s reality.

          Some people really just don’t pay attention…

          1. No it isn’t. You are the one not paying attention. You can look up who the FBI thinks is a threat. Or you can take the word of some asshole on YouTube. Your choice. Stupidity is a choice.

            1. The same FBI who thought Richard Jewel was a threat?

            2. You can also go outside and look – if you are not a soft, milky bitch-boy – and check out the card-boarded windows downtown. To get an idea of who is a threat I mean…

    2. Wow. Those violent white nationalists are blending right in with peaceful antifa now? They even fooled Wheeler! Nice!

  5. 1. Have your bitter enders gin up a metric assload of rumors.
    2. Point to that and say, “with so much smoke, there must be a fire there!”
    3. Profit!

    1. Don’t forget, those Mueller indictments are coming any day now.

    2. Isn’t that the game now? I mean the left had a decapitated bloody head of trump on magazines. They said, “this isn’t my president.” They claimed Trump, a germaphobe, was having prostitutes in Russia urinate on him. They said there was Russian collusion. After years of investigation, the Mueller report indicated they didn’t have any evidence of it. Barr, repeated that the mueller report didn’t have evidence of it. And then more rumors were sent abound. So this is the game now. So STFU and take it deep!

      ………………………………………………………………………TDS
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  6. I’m pretty sure “all we gotta do is find X votes” is a conversation that’s been had more often than this.

    1. You are probably correct. And I suspect that it happens a lot in the back-rooms of corporate America. Maybe that’s Trump’s thinking: he thinks the USA is his own little corporation. Sadly, I think Trump’s antics, at this point, are going to hurt the Republican party, which in the face of a Biden presidency and a over-the-top screaming from some on the far left of the Democrats, is not something we need.

      1. I’m pretty sure “all we gotta do is find X votes” was frequently muttered in the name of Al’s Gore and Franken.

        1. They obviously learned their lesson from 2000 and upped their fraud game. Covid gave them the excuse to change the rules and make the fraud easier.

    2. It’s a conversation that happened a ton in multiple states in the wee hours of November 4 around 4am. And then it happened a few more time since then, like when that NY judge found votes for the Democrat candidate. But those incidents were fine because they resulted in more Biden votes.

      But Trump asking for legal votes, especially after so many legal votes in his favor were removed or switched, is worse than Watergate

      1. How exactly does one get more legal votes after an election?

    3. Usually it happens before an election.

  7. No amount of auditing and recounts will convince convince Trump or his supporters that he lost.

    1. No amount of evidence will convince sarcasmic to spend any of his time actually looking at evidence instead of perving at female celebrity pics online

      1. If by that you mean I don’t waste my time with conspiracy theories and nutjobs like Aleck Jones, then yes you are indeed correct.

        1. You mean like Trump collusion with Russia?

          1. Only a fool would believe Russian ads on Facebook influenced the election.

            1. And yet you supported that narrative for 4 years and supported the fruitless Mueller investigation that spent 3 years and 40 million dollars of public money searching for a conspiracy that the FBI self-admittedly knew was fake, for which an agent is now sitting in jail for falsifying a FISA warrant. And supported impeachment on the basis of the same oppo dossier used to obtain the falsified FISA warrant. And defended Reason’s editorial staff when they peddled the same bullshit conspiracy for 4 years.

              1. Fuck off, Tulpa.

                1. I, too, would attempt to deflect when my obvious hypocrisy was thrown back in my face and massively project by accusing others of socking when I, too, run at least 3 known socks that I’ve accidentally outed in a drunken stupor.

                  1. Says the guy who posted lies while he socked myself and others on the weekends.

                    1. I, too, would engage in delusional paranoid conspiracy theories if I posted embarrassing shit while I was piss drunk and wanted to deflect from it.

              2. Both the Mueller Report and the Senate Report confirmed the bulk of the 2016 Russian “hoax” to be true. The only part not confirmed is that extent that the Trump campaign actively sought out Russian assistance.

                1. You’re an idiot.

                  1. That may be true, but does not change the accuracy of my statement.

    2. That's correct, because you keep counting the fraudulent votes over again with the non-fraudulent votes. We need time for investigation of the 10s of thousands that voted in georgia that no longer live there. The 10s of thousands of underage voters that somehow got to vote. The felons that voted. List goes on and on.

      1. It’s not going to happen. You were cheated and it’s now a tyranny. No election will ever be fair again, so there’s no point to you voting anymore. Resist from the internet. It’s all you can do unless you want to get off your snatch and blow something up.

    1. I didn’t know “Aleck Jones” wrote for NBC News

    2. did you see this?

      https://www.theepochtimes.com/exclusive-over-432000-votes-removed-from-trump-in-pennsylvania-data-scientists-say_3642202.html

      Twice the margin of victory
      From the same group that found enough votes in GA were switched from Trump to Biden to affect the outcome

      Trump won. But that isn’t the most important thing. We will have no country anymore if they get away with it.

      1. Guess you shouldn’t ever vote again since there won’t be a country.

        1. I usually don’t vote, but I made an exception for this election

          1. 2012 will probably be the norm in future elections. A progressive against another slightly more bland progressive with a different colored necktie.

      2. TRUMP WON. Period. Anyone who isn’t retarded knows that.

        So now what? We just say “so what?” and let Zuckerberg and Soros and the CCP enjoy their victory while we watch Biden attempt to remember what day it is and try not to say the N word?

  8. Didn’t even read the article. Just came to see the shit show of comments.

  9. Good article. Republicans have over 4 years failed to see Trump for what he is, incompetent, narcissistic, and mean. They wanted to give Trump time to accept the loss. Instead he has just worked himself into a lather believing he won. This will not end until they put it to rest and Joe Biden is President.

    Problem for Republicans is that he has spooked the pool and it will take a long time to calm it back down. This may cost the Republicans in 2022.

    1. Republicans have over 4 years failed to see Trump for what he is, incompetent, narcissistic, and mean.

      Looks to me more like they not only saw all of that, but decided to emulate it.

      1. Trump and his Mean Girls™ are the reason why sarcasmic has to spend his entire welfare check drinking himself into a stupor by 9 AM every day and fucking his underage daughter when he gets court-ordered visitation every other weekend in his section 8 apartment as he sits on Reason.com posting 16 hours a day

        1. Just like that.

          1. Guess you touched a nerve on John there.

            1. I don’t fuck obese pedophiles. When his daughter grows up into a sexually dysfunctional crack whore as a result of living through his constant sexual abuse her entire childhood, maybe we’ll see.

    2. How has Trump been incompetent? In March we had record low unemployment and record high stock market. He didn’t start any wars. He ended the war in Syria. Drew down troops in Afghanistan. Four peace deals between Israel and Arabs. North Korea has been quiet. What has he done incompetently?

      1. Trump was handed a good economy and brought on a recession. I stand by incompetent.

        1. How astute! You elide a few years of stellar performance, and look at a recession that started after COVID hysteria in June!

          Dishonest much?

          1. If we just ignore the worst economy since the Great Depression, he did fine!

            You can’t blame him for the stuff that happens on his watch or how he responds to it.

            Presidents are judged by their performance in hypothetical alternate universes where there are no problems to manage. Everyone knows that.

            1. Trump did not cause the shutdowns nor could he legally stop them.

              So what the fuck are you talking about?

      2. Artificial low interest rates, and, after promising to eliminate the debt in 8 years, doubled it.

    3. “and mean.”
      Ding Ding Ding! Here’s what it all comes down to: “mean tweets.”

      Meanwhile, I guess you prefer Democrats to fuck you over while smiling about it. Trump says it like it is, even if you don’t like it. That kind of openness is much needed in politics today.

      1. So what do you call a man who makes fun of the handicapped, or dismisses war heroes, or belittle gold star parents. A man who calls soldiers “suckers”. Who calls black women the “b” word. Who wants American citizens to go back where they came from. Who talks about a dead women even after her husband asks him stop.

        Is this the kind of openness you want to see?

        1. See how you work it? If someone attacks Trump who has some protected attribute (black, woman, etc), and Trump responds to the attack, you immediately say oh he attacked their protected attribute!

          Whether you are white, black, a woman, or whatever, if you enter the political arena, people are allowed to hit back at you. Maybe Trump is just attacking the person…or their dumbass ideas…just maybe…

          1. No he is not attacking their ideas. Trump never attacks ideas because it not bright enough to do that. He attacks the person. In many cases the people he attacks never did anything to him, he does it because he enjoys hurting people.

            1. “he does it because he enjoys hurting people.”

              Lol, I’ll bet you also think he secretly eats babies and tortures animals for fun, don’t you? Get real you delusional liberal.

            2. …he does it because he enjoys hurting people.

              Calling someone ‘literally Hitler’ multiple times a day for more than 4 years would also seem hurtful. What about those people?

        2. He did NOT make fun of the handicapped (fake news). John McCain is NOT a hero, and soldiers ARE suckers for the banksters that need the wars.

          1. He should make sure to repeat that loudly and often. He’s only trying to commit a coup. It’s not like you need the military for that oh wait yes you do.

          2. Did Trump mock reporter Serge Kovaleski. Who suffers from arthrogryposis. I will ask individual observers of the video to judge for themselves.

            Was Lt. John McCain a war fighter and hero. Yes he was. Twenty four missions in an A-4 when his plane was shot down after dropping his bombs. Five and one half years as a POW tortured and wounded. I would say that counts. What was Trump doing then.

            Soldiers are not suckers asshole.

            I was just a kiddo. Dad was medevac 67-69. Mom crying at the kitchen table when he sent his correspondence. I had no idea then. He came home.

            Good song John Fogerty at his best. Fortunate son.

            https://youtu.be/N7qkQewyubs

        3. “And calls a black woman the b word.”

          Well what if that black woman is a bitch? You want black women not to be treated like everyone else? Seems pretty racist.

          1. Your comment seems pretty misogynistic.

            1. You’re the one suggesting black women aren’t allowed to be bitches; apparently you don’t even think they’re fully human.

              Any other human traits you think they’re missing?

        4. Wow, so many debunked comments in one post. Impressive, even by cyto standards.

  10. 11,780 ways to cry like a little bitch!

  11. Germany, because he lives in the real world, cannot give Trump the lifeline he needs.

    More TDS. I am certain that an invasion of Poland is exactly the lifeline that Trump needed.

  12. This article is just more TDS induced noise.
    Congress is voting on the 6th.
    They can reject or accept electors. Insisting that it’s impossible to reject Biden electors won’t stop it, and insisting that they will reject for certain won’t make that happen either.
    I hope they reject, but so far I’m not seeing the numbers required to make that happen.
    We’ll see, but with dozens of Representatives and a dozen Senators on board with the objection, it’s definitely possible.
    Especially given the instant hero status for GOP member if they do.

    1. Exactly! This is Reason being even more unprincipled than usual. Go ahead and support investigating the facts, but stop participating in the mud-slinging, Reason!

    2. At least some people who post here are honest. I took don’t believe he has the support he’d need but his 2016 win was no small miracle either although this would need to be a much bigger hail Mary pass. Even if Trump can’t stop the theft he still can make life miserable for every establishment republican that supported the steal by using the millions of supporters who have shown they will get out and vote the bums out of office if that’s what it takes. I believe this is the real reason they’re trying to go after him. They need to get him out of the picture because he can be a problem for the corrupt even if he’s not in the Whitehouse but they can’t just arrest him for no good cause. They have to find something that can stick and well enough to discourage at least a sizeable percent of his supporters. They can’t just arrest Trump they have the demoralize him and his base so as to discourage anyone from ever trying to clean the swamp again. Outlets that previously stood for freedom and liberty like good old Reason.com have shown they’re willing to sell out if the price is right so its just a matter of making sure no one else ever gets the idea that its OK to do something about the corruption at least not until after they get their great reset in place and its then too late to do anything.

      Right now its a race to the great reset before any impactful movement within America can prevent it.

      1. You really have no idea how ridiculous you are, do you?

        You can’t love freedom unless you support a Trump autocracy! Yes, that Trump! Shut up, nuh uh he’s smart!

        Fucking brownshirt all nice and polished. We kill fascists here, you know.

        1. Tony, you are even more retarded than White Knight with your obvious Democrat anger and calling people fascists. You know who the real fascists are? Zuckerberg, Bezos, Romney, Soros and the other billionaires who want to control ALL THE LITTLE PEOPLE. Sorry you are too stupid to see that. And as for brown shirts: That would be your “summer of love” burning and looting and murdering crowd. The ones who killed 20 people, injured 700 police, and actually threw bricks in a police horse’s face.

          1. You’re a fascist because you think there’s a conspiracy of Jews who control the world, when in reality you’re supporting an absurd strongman against the democratic will of the people.

    3. it is extremely dangerous to attempt to exploit a technicality to erase our republic and he will of the people. as many conservatives have pointed out, this process is in place to address significant and clearly identifiable problems like what was seen immediately after the civil war…….. it was not intended to override the will of the people and give congress the ability to chose the president.

      if this happens, there will be consequences…… and you all will learn that those who cannot stand by and allow our republic to be destroyed to satisfy on mans ego outnumber you by a lot more than you think….. and they are not all unarmed snowflakes. the electorate has spoken,… and they are the ones in charge.

    4. They can’t reject the electors. The Constitution does not allow it.

  13. The main reason this investigation is necessary is that I guarantee that Trump called officials in the other disputed states.
    https://worldabcnews.com/in-recorded-phone-call-trump-pressed-georgia-election-chief-to-find-votes-for-him/

    1. So what?
      I’m not aware of any law prohibiting Trump from doing that.

      1. Unless he also solicited them to commit election fraud, as he was doing with the Georgia SOS.

        1. So you heard Trump solicit the GA SOS to commit election fraud? I am assuming you listened to the entire call and not the select audio bites being used to claim he committed a felony.

          1. He told him to find the votes he needed to win and threatened him. It’s no “57 states” but it’s pretty clearly some cheesy mobster shit.

            Keep your standards high.

            1. You love saying “Keep your standards high,” Tony. Yet YOUR standards are to defend the lunatics that spent four years attacking people associated with Trump, impeaching Trump for asking about Biden’s Burisma graft, mocking the people who voted for Trump, mocking his wife and his child, cheating in an election, and then absolutely IGNORING 10% for the Big Guy. That’s the crime, Tony. Not calling up a dude in Georgia with two lawyers on the line and a tape recorder running and saying “Why are you trying so hard to cheat?” Because if you listen to the full hour THAT’S WHAT TRUMP SAID. He wasn’t getting ten percent from the CCP. That was Biden.

              Have some standards.

              1. One of my favorite sideshows is when people whine on behalf of Trump about people who were mean to him or his family.

                Yeah, standards. If Trump can be a crass moronic cunt, so can I. He’s the president. Your children can be cunts now too.

                1. Have some standards, Tony. Only men who are cunts say cunts. Unless you’re a woman. Maybe you are. In which case, go on being a crass moronic woman.

                  And no celebrity or media outlet ever attacked the Obama children.

            2. More debunked nonsense from Tony.

          2. The rest of the call does not make Trump look any better. He did very much ask the SOS to change the vote totals.

            1. No he didn’t. He did not ask them to change votes for him. He asked them to stop covering up the fraud and turn over the Atlanta machines. God, I hate liberal liars. Bob Woodward!!! What a great journalist.

              1. “All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state.”

                He does not care at all about fraud. He just wants enough votes for him to win. Also bringing up criminal charges against the SOS.

                “And you are going to find that they are — which is totally illegal — it is more illegal for you than it is for them because, you know, what they did and you’re not reporting it. That’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a big risk.”

                1. Trump: “We have anywhere from 200,000 to 350,000 ballots dropped mysteriously into the rolls.”

                  If you have evidence that hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes were cast, asking them to sort through the mess to find the 11,780 votes for you that you know are in there is NOT ASKING SOMEONE TO CREATE ILLEGAL VOTES. It’s asking them to get rid of the illegal votes. But you know that, and so does the Marxist Media.

                  1. Trump lied. There are no ballots dropped mysteriously into the rolls, and he knows that, but he does not care about facts. It is clear from the recording that Trump wanted the SoS to cook the books and come up with just enough votes for Trump to win. Also even if there were voting issues (which there were not) the correct course of action would be to urge the SoS to fix the issues, not fix them in a way that Trump wins. This is despot behavior and it sickens me that so many would support it.

        2. Moderation4ever saying a phone call with two or three lawyers on the line and a tape recorder running is “election fraud,” but saying this is not election fraud is the definition of irony:
          https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1346198803662028800.html
          How to Steal the Election in Six Tweets. Tell me that there was no fraud.

  14. Wow! It’s so sad to see you go down this crooked road! You could have been principled and stayed out of it. We know there are crooks on both sides, but you’ve gone WAY over the line in participating in the mud-slinging at a partisan time. YOU need to come clean and support a complete investigation of the facts, not add to the noise!

  15. I’m not sure what would be more satisfying. Trumps providing some evidence to the house/senate on the 6th to get things changed and him re-elected or to see journalists like Sullum eat some crow over the same. There was time when Reason was a place you could disagree but the site has as much a hard on to get rid of Trump as any mainstream democratic leaning outlet. I can understand why libertarian’s would not agree with Trump but REASON has moved far beyond merely disagreeing with him. You might as well be bending over and taking it from behind for the left with how far you’ve lost grip on reality. I have more respect for the propgresisve left who at least are honest about what they’re doing then REASON which is trying to hide its anti-Trump agenda behind Libertarianism. I’m very much glad today that I decided against supporting reason financially. What a damn shame too.

    For those still interested in reasoned journalism, Glenn Greenwald is worth checking out. He is left leaning but at least he’s honest about what he is and he’s not afraid to call out both eth left and right.

    1. if you have any respect a all for the rule of law and our constitution….. you should be stark raving mad at the way Trump has been behaving….. he is literally trying to steal the election….. this isn’t his typical tweets or other nonsense, this is openly criminal.

      1. You are the fool who said Dominion voting machines were only used in LA.
        YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS ELECTION.
        https://hereistheevidence.com

        Why no glance through there. Or read something besides the MSNBC?

        1. I’ve been there. it is just a long list of garbage that is easily proven false, mixed in with a few retards thinking something means something that it does not actually mean.

  16. Pot calling the kettle black Sullum. Everyone has provided loads of evidence that warrant suspicion and further auditing of our election. Trump clearly has something powerful enough for him to fight like this. He’s giving people a chance not to hang themselves. You really think he would bluff with this much exposure? We might see some literal heads roll in the coming weeks.

    1. no they haven’t….. some partisan hacks have made claims easily disproved, and the moron brigade tweets it around like gospel truth… there is no evidence.

      1. some partisan hacks have made claims easily disproved,

        I have yet to see anyone disprove the observed statistical anomalies or provide proof that ballots were adjudicated fairly and ballots were not falsely classified as “unreadable”.

        Go ahead, provide proof.

        1. They can’t provided proof of fairness. Jovan Pulitzer has patents licensed to over 300 tech companies. He knows the Georgia ballots were fraud. He hacked into a Dominion machine during the Georgia senate hearing. And in Pennsylvania, 432,000 votes were removed from Trump’s tabulations.
          ALL THAT SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED.
          Instead we have the Georgia secretary of state (who likely was paid in bitcoin by Dominion for the $110 million voting machine deal he gave them) saying “it’s not true.” That’s what we have: It’s not true.

      2. More debunked claims. Good job.

  17. There’s no “reason’ for trying to debate with Sullum or anyone else here with Stage 3 and higher TDS. Its possible with enough time and skill to reach stage 1 and even stage 2 TDS patients but once they hit stage 3 its pointless. Its like trying to get a young child to sit down and look at something when all they do is run around with their hands over their eyes saying “I don’t see anything”. It’s not that they refuse to acknowledge you have a point, they genuinely can not see it. TDS attacks the brain. Its very debilitating and causes its victims to suffer from mass delusions. I know its satisfying to attack them due to their often toxic rants and are of superiority but you have to be better than them just as Trump has to be better then the swamp creatures he’s stuck dealing with. AS much as it sucks we have to be the better people. We’re never going to get anyone with Stage 3 TDS to see “reason” anyway but by our actions of being better we can reach those who are the middle of the road voters who don’t trust big government but thanks to their false belief that the news media can still be trusted they also don’t fully Trust the side trying to save the country.

    Be better than Sullum and everyone else here who have been brain damaged by TDS.

    1. Trump is a fucking moron who is trying to steal the presidential election every single day, only he’s too fucking stupid to do it.

      Now, those are just facts. Believing facts doesn’t make one deranged. Believing an orange baby man like Trump deserves power over an Arby’s, let alone the world’s most powerful institution, is what makes you deranged.

      1. It’s actually you who sounds deranged. And also factless.

        Here’s some facts: https://www.scribd.com/document/489742970/Election-Evidence-Summary

  18. “Reason” editorial board needs to fire all the woke writers is has somehow accumulated. Fire these activists for the DNC and the CCP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhSmFQ5kAD0

  19. Appalling article. Is Reason now The New York Times? I don’t understand how Jacob Sullum could have written this… he’s 5 years my junior, and I’ve enjoyed much of his work over the years- he’s a Ron Paul supporter and lives in Texas. Why he favors Biden and Harris over Trump is truly beyond my comprehension. As a 60 year old Libertarian for Trump, a NH Free Stater and a Manhattan refugee since 2005, may I say that that the real enemy is the Democrat Party. It’s a racist fascist gang of thugs. I’m not going to waste any more time here. I’m going to the Mises Institute to watch lectures by real scholars.

    1. Why a Trump supporter would consider himself a Libertarian is beyond me. From trade to immigration to fiscal discipline, Trump is clearly no Libertarian.

      1. From trade to immigration to fiscal discipline, Trump is clearly no Libertarian.

        Neither Trump nor Biden are libertarians. But on most issues, Trump leans more libertarian than Harris/Biden.

        Of course, many people here who call themselves “libertarian” are simple traditional communist utopians. After all, communism has personal liberty without state coercion as its objective, just like libertarianism.

        1. I disagree. Trump is as far from a Libertarian as you can get. He opposes immigration and he is a protectionist on trade. Biden does not and is not. Both are irresponsible with respect to spending, but I think Trump is worse. He is only close to being a Libertarian on foreign policy, and even there he fails.

          1. How about this? You’re both wrong.

            NOYB2: “communism has personal liberty without state coercion as its objective, just like libertarianism.”
            Communism ALWAYS involves state coercion. Don’t tell me about “goals.” 100 million people were killed by Communism in the last century.

            Fred G. Sanford: “Trump is as far from a Libertarian as you can get.” Uh, you can get a lot further away. Let’s try Democrats: mask mandates, nanny state, big gulp enforcers, school closures, safe spaces, word policing, healthcare takeover, energy takeover, free college, universal income, blah blah blah.

            1. You are so confused it’s painful.

              Communism didn’t kill 100 million people, autocrats did. You’re against autocrats.

              Which is why you want a guy with weird hair to install himself in power against the will of the people.

              1. Communism didn’t kill 100 million people, autocrats did. You’re against autocrats.

                Correct. But the inevitable outcome of trying to implement communism or socialism in the real world is the rise of autocrats.

                The problem is that the world is full of well meaning idiots like you who think that communism/socialism/progressivism can be realized. You’re like flat earthers or young earth creationists: you just deny reason, logic, and evidence.

            2. Communism ALWAYS involves state coercion.

              Yes, it does. But people who believe in communism believe that it will liberate people from oppression and totalitarian states. That’s why so many people who up here who call themselves libertarians but really just envision the same communist utopia that card carrying communists envision.

              Don’t tell me about “goals.” 100 million people were killed by Communism in the last century.

              And if people like you refuse to understand why people follow those ideologies, hundreds millions more will die.

  20. President Trump is suffering from cognitive biases. The confirmation bias: “The tendency to search for, interpret, focus on and remember information in a way that confirms one’s preconceptions.” The Semmelweis reflex: “The tendency to reject new evidence that contradicts a paradigm.”
    See Scott Fruehwald, Understanding and Overcoming Cognitive Biases For Lawyers And Law Students: Becoming a Better Lawyer Through Cognitive Science (2018).

    1. Fucking sophomores.

  21. Christ, they’re really going to have to charge him with crimes.

    What are they gonna do, say you’re above the law if you used to be president and whined a lot?

    He has to be prosecuted. I’m sure all his worshipful taint barnacles here will handle that well.

    1. i wanted all the other crimes the left has been crying about to be ignored when he is gone…… just to not have to hear about him anymore…… but i do think he needs to be charged for the tantrum he has been throwing since the election… some things can not be allowed to slide.

      1. I agree. It’s election tampering as part of an overall crime of sedition, and there is no principle in law that I’m aware of that says you can get away with major crimes against democracy just because you’re very stupid.

        1. You literally have an IQ of 60. Do you ever say anything smart? Or with any evidence? I fell badly for picking on you, Tony. You’re out of your element.

          1. I’m a lazy citer but I feel that it’s OK since anyone can just go check google if they want to know.

            The facts are usually on results page 1, not 12, fyi.

            1. Facts. Google. Page one.

              You’ve really got your finger on the pulse!

  22. Cant you guys see by now he is just trolling the readers for clicks?

  23. Trump must have the most fragile ego in history. I wonder if there is a medication for extreme narcissism.

    1. more of a procedure… it involves a wood-chipper.

  24. From all the comments here and elsewhere, Trump is not the only one who is impervious to evidence.

    1. I have yet to see evidence that the election was free and fair. You’re welcome to provide that.

      There is plenty of evidence that it was not, starting with overt legal violations, insecure processes, and highly improbable statistical anomalies.

      1. If there is so much evidence the election was not free and fair, Trump’s lawsuits wouldn’t repeatedly have been thrown out and the Department of Homeland Security would not have determined it was free and fair. Trump’s so-called evidence is laughable, but then he isn’t challenging the election because of actual fraud but because he’s a big baby who can’t stand losing.

        1. If there is so much evidence the election was not free and fair, Trump’s lawsuits wouldn’t repeatedly have been thrown out

          The question is whether there is evidence that the election was fraudulent, the question is whether you or anybody else can provide evidence that the election was free and fair and that the votes were counted properly. This means producing detailed audit trails of ballot boxes, counters, voters, voter identification, etc. So where are those audit trails? Where is the evidence?

        2. All tossed for laches, standing, and “ripeness”. No evidence investigated, evaluated, or adjudicated.

          You really ought to follow the world more closely.

      2. The only reason you and everyone else has not seen any evidence that the election was clean is because you simply discount all the election officials across the US, both R and D, and the DoJ, and the federal judiciary that says it was.

        1. How many cases were tossed for laches? PA was.

      3. The evidence is in the vote audits. Georgia had three audits. You don’t want evidence, you want Trump to be president, because you think that validates something about yourself. Probably your blind faith in Trump itself.

        “We can’t really be having a 9/11 worth of death each day for six months. That would mean Trump is…. bad?”

        1. The evidence is in the vote audits. Georgia had three audits.

          “We did and audit and found nothing.” is not evidence. Specific, detailed, public records from the original vote and from the audit would be evidence. Where are those records? They don’t exist, because both the original voting and counting procedures and the audits are a shambles.

          You don’t want evidence, you want Trump to be president

          No, Tony, I want proper record keeping for US elections. I have wanted that for decades, regardless of who wins. Hopefully, this time, the scandal is big enough that something changes.

  25. It seems clear from the recording of Trump’s one-hour telephone conversation with Raffensperger on Saturday that the president sincerely believes he actually won the election,

    As does probably half the country, and with good reason.

    1. Because he did. He won the election, but the Democrats don’t care because they have turned into a party of thugs, bullies, and phonies.

      Because absolutely no one is stupid enough to believe Biden won 477 counties and Trump won 2497 counties and Obama won 873 counties but the SENILE GUY got more votes than anyone ever in history. Right.

      1. And your proof he won, despite all of the evidence to the contrary, is…what? Alex Jones? Something you read on Twitter? A post on Facebook?

        1. There’s no evidence to the contrary, only Trump Derangement Syndrome delusion of blind bigotry. I’d say see The Epoch Times and American Thinker but the blind can’t read and the bigoted won’t.

        2. He just gave you merely SOME of the proof “Biden won 477 counties and Trump won 2497 counties and Obama won 873 counties but the SENILE GUY got more votes than anyone ever in history. Right.”
          but blind bigotry makes one incapable of seeing it.

          1. The only evidence the TDS crowd will accept is Biden and Kamala holding hands and saying: “We cheated.” Even then, they would still think Trump should step aside.
            If they didn’t cheat, why so much hiding in Georgia? Why so much lying out of a Dominion exec? Where’s Eric Coomer’s social media posts about how much he hates Trump and the Texans who said his machines were a joke?
            Millions of Americans were disenfranchised, and they weren’t Biden voters.

          2. That’s how voting works.

      2. Here’s a tip for you…unless you’re a county executive or below, you never win an election by just winning a county. You don’t become a Senator because you won the most counties. You don’t get elected to the House because you won the most counties. And you sure as heck don’t win the Presidency based on counties won, or even raw number of states won.

        But then, you would have had to pay attention in Civics 101. Hope your nap then was pleasant.

  26. The only person being “impervious to the evidence” is the author of this propaganda hit piece masquerading as actual journalism. Why isn’t Sullum working for CNN? His Newspeak would be better-suited for the Propaganda Press.

    1. “Why isn’t Sullum working for CNN?”

      He’s positioning himself for the job. He just needs to get his fake news resume up to their standards. On that point I’d say Sideshow Sullum is just about ready for the big time.

      1. You might be right, John. Why else would he be parroting the CNN Official Authoritarian Narrative? What utter intellectually dishonest garbage.

        1. It’s worse. Even garbage is good for fertilizer and deceiver Jacob’s insanity isn’t even good enough for that. His Trump Derangement Syndrome is clearly a far more dangerous infection than the Wuhan virus.

    2. CNN has SOME standards and Sullum does not remotely qualify. This is a pity job at best.

    3. “Fake news.” ROFL, the mantra of the Trumptard. As Trump has nothing in common with Libertarians, I am not sure why people like you post here instead of Breitbart.

      1. To laugh at Libertarians whining that their one member of Congress is gone and celebrating that, after 50 yrs, they pulled down almost 1% of the vote.

        Fucking losers.

        1. At least we know that and don’t bitch and moan about it when we lose an election.

  27. The only people showing “zero evidence” are the people who claim there is “zero evidence” for election fraud. No one even remotely intellectually honest could claim that. At most, you could question the evidence that has been put forth, which the “zero evidence” people rarely do. They treat the truth about this election as preordained and thus unsusceptible to further inquiry. Hard to believe I’m reading authoritarian/corrupt CNN crap here on Reason.

    1. You don’t prove a negative. If there is fraud, it is for the person claiming fraud to prove it. Trump has tried, and his lawsuits have repeatedly been thrown out. But his cult members believe anything he says even when there is no evidence to support it.

    2. Right. Those in the real world read things like The Epoch Times and American Thinker where there’s actual news instead of Trump Derangement Syndrome. Only God can save us now since those at unreason are merely Red China puppets like the Biden corpse.

    3. There are thousands of reported Bigfoot sightings every year along with photos and other physical evidence. About 1/3 of Americans believe in Bigfoot.

      That is a lot more evidence than there is that Trump won the election.

  28. “Impervious to Evidence” — Which Evidence; the ‘Evidence’ before Dec 4 at 4AM or the ‘Evidence’ after Dec 4 at 4AM?

  29. Oh boy, the next few days are gonna be entertaining. Let’s see if the trump voters here and on facebook,Twitter and all the other social networks will do as they say. They’ll probably opt to stay at home and beat their wives. That’s a whole lot easier for them, but we’ll see. I’m oozing with anticipation to see the fun and festivities.

  30. Funny stuff from Sullum. Maybe Trump really believes it, as if that excuses him. Trump’s derangement might save him, might accord him a pass from the electorate, according to Sullum.

    You have to hand it to Reason. Here we have a President actually suggesting that a Georgia official should find him 12,000 votes. Just find them. Accompanied with a threat, that if the official doesn’t do what Trump wants he would be breaking the law. But heck, maybe Trump just believes that, right Sullum?

    When Obama said “you didn’t build that,” this website had its hair on fire. It was going to be the downfall of the Republic. This is a quote from Tucille back then:

    “There’s something deeply disturbing in the world-view of those who would minimize the achievements of those who pursued the ideas, took the risks, invested the time and money and made things happen. And it’s no more encouraging to hear such people claim individual achievements as the property of the amorphous collective led, always, by themselves. The only value in such pronouncements is the warning they offer to those of us who seek something with a bit more promise for anybody with a hint of self-respect and a whisper of inspiration.”

    That was deeply disturbing. That was a President giving himself more credit than he deserves. That was a stark warning to the rest of us. But heck, it certainly wasn’t just something Obama might really believe. You know, l8ke Trump believes a fair election was fraudulent.

    The selective outrage by writers here is hilarious.

    1. If you read real news instead of corrupt CNN trash you’d know that’s not what Trump said. Those of us who rather live in the real world, e.g. The Epoch Times and American Thinker know you’re deluded and deceived.

      1. It’s exactly what he said, idiot.

        “Oh, I don’t know, look Brad. I got to get … I have to find 12,000 votes… So what are we going to do here folks? I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break.”

        “But the ballots are corrupt.
        And you are going to find that they are — which is totally illegal, it is more illegal for you than it is for them because, you know what they did and you’re not reporting it. That’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a big risk.”

        https://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/read-transcript-of-trumps-phone-call-to-georgia-secretary-of-state/IRLR3EXOMVFJFJIVYYUQ2C6QTM/

        Trumps an idiot. You shouldn’t emulate him.

      2. Scrounging at Reason for recruits. Sad on so many levels.

    2. This place has one mission and one mission only: to protect capitalism from the peasants. They’d very much prefer if Trump would go away and some other evil, but less stupid, bastard would shut up and cut taxes.

      That the only thing Trump accomplished was utterly kleptocratic tax cuts makes him a much bigger win for them over Obama, if you injected them with truth serum. How much has Reason demonstrated it even cares about the norms of democracy, as a component of liberty? Where is its editorials about voter suppression?

      They just wish he wouldn’t tweet so much.

      1. Maybe they just don’t share your conspiracy theories, hmm? Butthurt about that? 😀

      2. Exactly, Tony.

  31. Jacob and unreason, the corrupt Trump Derangement Syndrome deceivers are the blind fools impervious to evidence, unlike those at The Epoch Times and American Thinker where there’s massive irrefutable proof the Red China puppet masters are trying to steal the election.

  32. The simple solution may be that his supporters in Georgia attempted to vote on Election Day as requested by the President but could not reliably get there, whilst Biden’s supporters used absentee ballot and had some weeks each & all to file in so that no Biden supporter missed Election Day.

    Duh?

    1. Trump supporters don’t drive? There was live in person early voting also in Georgia. The state requires it by law. You have about a month to vote at the polling place.

  33. Apparently the author didn’t even listen to all of the audio nor read the full transcript, and only based his article in the WaPo reporting, which was filed with misleading, out of context, and sometimes totally made up, “quotes”.

  34. Say what you will about Trump; at least he’s not watching Cuties with the shades drawn.

    1. Think he’s grown out of his molesting children phase?

  35. Trump is delusional. His conversation with the GA Sec of State reminds me very much of a delusional family member. There is no convincing a deluded person that they aren’t thinking clearly or they are wrong.

  36. Why does it matter?

    Remember this?

    http://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/03/09/russias-impact-election-seen-through-partisan-eyes

    Two out of three Democrats also claim Russia tampered with vote tallies on Election Day to help the President – something for which there has been no credible evidence

    1. Exactly right. And they were only concerned about the effects of Russia hacking into real DNC emails and spreading them over the Internet. Trump is concerned about about actual voter fraud in several of the swing states, specifically in several Democrat-controlled large cities.

    2. One reason I am not a Democrat or Republican. You people are nuts. And they call libertarians loonies.

  37. Once again, Sullum confirms that he is only a Reason leftist hack. Any true libertarian should want to see voter fraud thoroughly investigated and exposed, regardless of which party commits the fraud. Not thoroughly investigating and correcting it, as well as punishing the offenders, reduces the perceived integrity of our elections and undermines a core foundation of our republic.

  38. I just wish sullum would shut the fuck up. He has nothing left to say, just beats the same exact tds punch list in every single article. Every single one.

  39. Maybe by “Reason” they mean “rationale” and not “rational,” as in “the Reason for site this is to publish the tired, re-hashed leftist claptrap of the cunt known as Jake the Fake.” Or perhaps “Reason” is meant to be ironic? Either way, this is no longer funny.

  40. “Trump’s Conversation With Georgia Election Officials Shows His Conviction That He Won Is Impervious to Evidence”

    Or perhaps he’s rationally responding to the constant stream of TDS-driven bullshit you’ve delivered and he’s suffered for four years.

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