Reason Roundup

Strip Club Ban on Unaccompanied Women Spawns LGBT Rights Controversy

Plus: House votes on $2,000 stimulus checks, another win for Brooklyn churches challenging lockdown orders, and more...


Rachel's Gentlemen's Club—a strip club in Orange County, Florida—bans female patrons unless they're accompanied by men. It's something of a common practice at U.S. strip clubs. But is it illegal? A recent lawsuit argues yes.

The suit was brought by Brittney Smith and Anita Yanes. The two women tried to visit Rachel's Orlando in 2018 and were denied entry because they didn't have any men with them.

They argue that this policy violates Orange County's human rights law, which bans discrimination in public places "on the basis of that individual's age, race, color, religion, national origin, disability, marital status, familial status, sex, or sexual orientation." Florida's statewide civil rights statute bans sex discrimination but not discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

"The pivotal issue is whether local laws prohibiting discrimination supersede state laws that don't," notes the Orlando Sentinel editorial board.

The paper is pushing the case as a boon for LGBTQ rights, though neither woman bringing the lawsuit identifies as gay, bi, or trans. "Even though Smith and Yanes aren't LGBTQ, citing the county's ordinance essentially puts that local law on trial," it says. "Not just in Orange County, but in about 50 other municipalities with ordinances that provide more LGBTQ protections than the state sees fit."

But Rachel's wasn't denying Smith and Yanes entry because of the women's sexual orientation but because of their sex. Rachel's policy might be bad business, discriminatory against women, or based on outdated and heteronormative thinking. But how can it be discriminating against gay people by applying its policy evenly to heterosexual and homosexual women?

A Florida judge initially dismissed the lawsuit, but an appeals court overturned the ruling on a technicality.

"Orange County was not a defendant," and "state law requires counties to be brought in as parties when ordinances are challenged," the Sentinel explains. "Because of that, the [state] Supreme Court declined to hear the case last week. Orange County has been added as a defendant, and the case is moving forward."


House votes to bump up COVID-19 relief checks. A proposal to raise individual stimulus payments to $2,000 passed the U.S. House of Representatives on Monday. It now heads to the Senate, where it's expected to have a harder time gaining approval.

In the $900 billion COVID-19 relief package that passed last week, payments were set at $600.

The House also voted yesterday to override President Donald Trump's veto of a defense spending bill. The issue now heads to the Senate, as well—where it could run into a snag from Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.). "Sanders will filibuster an override of President Donald Trump's defense bill veto unless the Senate holds a vote on providing $2,000 direct payments to Americans," Politico reports.


Another court has ruled in favor of Brooklyn religious groups challenging New York's lockdown orders.


• Some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have recovered from COVID-19.

• How the FDA killed bucatini pasta.

Reason's Ron Bailey explains the new, more transmissible COVID-19 variant circulating in the U.K. that could "ramp up the deleterious consequences of the pandemic dramatically."

NEXT: Murky Laws Make It Too Easy To Label Good Parents 'Neglectful'

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  1. Rachel’s Gentlemen’s Club—a strip club in Orange County, Florida—bans female patrons unless they’re accompanied by men.

    Veils handed out at the door.

    1. Hello.

      Bucatini is indeed a great pasta AND De Cecco the best dry pasta company.

      All’ Amatrciana is the best sauce (anyway, that was my mother’s sauce for it growing up) to go with it or just a plain marinara and basil. A REAL Bolognese is good too but because the pasta is thick it can get a tad heavy. I once tried it with alla Carbonara and while it was good, it was very decadent.

      Someone here asked me a while ago if I use the whole egg. I answered then and will do so here. While it’s become somewhat popular to remove the yoke, I use the whole egg. I use 4 eggs for 3 grams more or less.

      Again. I will say it again until every North American gets it through their thick skulls: Do NOT use cream. It’s cheating and mangles the recipe. You’re supposed to achieve the creaminess through whisking the eggs, pasta water, and about 200g of pecorino (and some parmigiano if you wish) and pepper.

      Eventually it becomes a nice cream. THAT’S the carbonara.

      And for the love of God…NO GARLIC.

      What is it with the fricken garlic fetish? If you want a pasta dish with garlic make an agilo e olio. Like I did with for my daughter last night.

      The end.

      1. Hello. Prego or Ragu? I’ll take your answer off air, thanks.

        1. Ragu as in the Italian sense of bolognese?

          And Prego? The canned sauce?

          /Producer get him back on the line.

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      2. I’d like to add, I don’t like too much sauce on pasta like spaghetti, penne, tortoglioni etc. You don’t want to over drench it in sauce.

        But if there is a pasta where you can get away with a little more sauce it’s bucatini (like a good lasagne) it absorbs more sauce than Susie at the car wash.

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      3. I asked about the egg. I love making carbonara.

        I love garlic – I use it in a lot of different things. But I wouldn’t put it in carbonara, just like I wouldn’t put it in a cannoli.

        I like using grana padano for the cheese, but pecorino romano is probably my 2nd favorite.

        1. Kraft is my favorite kind of macaroni, though Great Value brand will generally suffice. Simmer in a can of tuna and a can of peas to achieve a medley of gourmet flavors. Bar-S hot dogs, sliced into half inch morsels also serve as a satisfactory complement to the rich flavor and texture of the processed cheese sauce.

          I love how cultured we are in the commentariat.

          1. You should try it will all-beef lil’ smokies and broccoli florets.

            1. That sounds disgusting… but so does mac-n-tuna-n-peas, and that shit’s delicious.

              I’ll give it a go, thanks.

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      4. I couldn’t care less about your preferences or demands.

      5. I applaud you for the purity of your carbonara, and I like Bucatini as a change of pace, but three paragraphs into that linked article had me praying for the big asteroid to come.

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    4. “Rachel’s Gentlemen’s Club—a strip club in Orange County, Florida—bans female patrons unless they’re accompanied by men.”

      Pretty sure that this had more to do with keeping outside prostitutes from plying their trade inside.
      If you’re going to get a handy in the bathroom, the dancers want to make the $20.

      But hey, everything’s bigotry nowadays.

      1. prostitution is already banned in Florida

        1. Lol.

        2. Which has nothing to do with a club’s policy.

          1. Other than being the entire reason for it.

      2. Not so much about stopping prostitutes from working as protecting the business from charges related to them working inside the business.

        1. “Civil rights” arguments being nothing more than a gross violation of the individual rights to free association and deciding how to use your own private property.

          But I suppose the at least intellectually consistent response from Reason should be for those unaccompanied women to build their own damned strip club.

          1. this^

          2. Everyone seems to have accepted ‘protected class’ – even libertarians.

      3. It’s interesting you should mention this. There was a special on PBS on The Stonewall Uprising, coinciding with the 50th Anniversary, It pointed out something I didn’t know that libertarians should find noteworthy.

        It pointed out that New York City had a law at the time that said if a hotel or bar had so much as one Homosexual patron, vice police could classify the establishment as a “bawdy house” or “disorderly house” and thus subject the establishment to raids and shutdown. Hotels and bars back then were in a can’t-win scenario and this put Gays and Lesbians in a can’t-win scenario too.

        This is what drove Gay and Lesbian patrons to have to seek out dangerous, unhygenic, fire-trap meeting places such as public restrooms, un-used meat packing tractor-trailers, and slummy Mafia-ran clubs like The Stonewall.

        The Stonewall had no working toilets, working plumbing and no dishwashing facilities and was a fire hazard. The club was supplied by Mob-heisted beer and liquor trucks and made bribes to police to stay open.

        When police came to harrass Gays and Lesbians at the only semi-civilized place they could get-together, that was when the powder-keg was set off and the rest was history.

        If New York City didn’t have that one Anti-Homosexual law,
        none of the misery New York City Gays and Lesbians suffered would have occured, nor would hotels and bars be harrassed, nor would the Mafia have had another revenue stream.

        Fortunately, the LGBTQ Movement that followed The Stonewall Uprising mostly resulted in greater equality before the law and acceptance in society, albeit with unneeded Statist legislation.

        Fortunately also, unlike the 1968 race riots or today’s post-George Floyd riots, LGBTQs after The Stonewall Uprising did not move on to destroy the rest of New York City, nor did The Stonewall Uprising turn into riots nationwide.

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  2. House votes to bump up COVID-19 relief checks.

    They do all have to face voters again in two years, you know.

    1. Most voters hate Congress but love their representative.


        Said both candidates and voters?

      2. My rep is a piece of horseshit.

        1. I feel your pain. I lived in Maryland for many years.

        2. Appropriate representation then.

          1. A mirror image, one might say.

        3. Horseshit at least has some fertilizer value, more than I can say for my Rep.

    2. “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury.”

      1. also democratic socialism is still socialism

        1. At least the first time.

        2. you can vote your way but you have to shoot your way out.

    3. As more people learn about all the pork and overseas funds in the so called COVID relief bill, more are becoming angered at the paltry $600 being given to actual Americans. Even those who don’t agree with the stimulus feel rightly insulted by the spending priorities of the last stimulus bill. If you are going to debt spend, at least debt spend on Americans, not debt spend doing gender studies in Pakistan.

      1. How many book of Mormons does 600$ buy?

        Do you have any lies or LDS Propoganda to share today?

        Neil armstrong and Buzz Aldrin were mormons? Mormons were wiped out by european colonizers when they explored North America? Teddy Roosevelt was Mormon?

        You seem to have no problem lying. You must get that from your Mormon cunt mother.

        1. My mother is a Lutheran. Buy keep showing how stupid and bigoted you are. Every time you post you out your Nazi tendencies. And you charge of lying I’d simply laughable. You posted one citation that stated Nazis sent Mormons to concentration camps, according to the Nazis themselves, not because they were Mormons but because they were enemies of the state. Gee, that is a gotcha.

          1. They were enemies of the state FOR RESISTING NAZISM! NOT FOR BEING MORMON! get that through your inbred hillbilly skull!

            You said your “mother’s family.” Tell your mother I’m sorry! Tell her “family” to enjoy their stay in hell!

            1. According to what the Nazis stated. That is your proof, the word of genocidal maniacs.

              1. But then again you admit joyfully that you are also a genocidal maniac so we should not be surprised that you believe the words of other genocidal maniacs.

              2. There’s these people called historians, academics, and researchers who study shit like that. Now some primary sources are most likely from Nazis, but they take that into account to try to paint the least biased picture. They also get sources from other people.

                Jesus fucking christ you’re one inbred hick.

                1. So you admit their research is based upon testimony and papers of Nazis but can’t admit that their conclusions may be incorrect as a result of the bias of the primary material? And you call others people stupid. You really are the king of projection, aren’t you?

                2. And saying “but historians at” is the logical fallacy known as appealing to authority. And even when you appeal to authority, you admit that at least some of their research relied upon Nazi statements and papers. Yet you continue to insist that your citation is definitive proof. That isn’t logical nor scholastic. If anyone is proving the limits of their intellect it is you. Especially when you accuse others of being Nazis when they call you out for calling for genocide.

                3. And do you really consider it insulting to call me a hick? Someone who ranchers by choice and revels on being rural? Yes so wounding to call me a hick. I am going to go cry now. Fuck you are a joke.

                4. Never claimed it was definitive or full proof. Actually I called it polemic because it is too hard on them in my opinion.

                  What have you cited?

                  We will never know exactly what happened. However, I’ve yet to see any evidence that mormons were persecuted and killed simply because their religion. They were looked at suspiciously and monitored, but lots of groups were. Some catholics were.

                  I’m claiming that there isn’t evidence that mormons were persecuted and killed.

                  You claim they were, so shouldn’t you have some evidence other than what Mormons say?

                  1. Why? Is their testimony not enough for me to reach a conclusion. You accused me of lying yet you admit that there is no evidence to contradict my conclusions definitively. If the testimony of victims isn’t enough, shy should I accept the testimony of their persecutors? You haven’t shown a logical reason why my conclusion is any less valid then the historian you keep citing.
                    And even if the historian is correct, even if Mormons weren’t persecuted for being Mormon, that on no way absolves you of the charge of being a Nazi when you call for genocide to deal with people you disagree with. In fact, many historians have concluded that Hitler didn’t actually hate jews but used them as a scape goat. And he demonized them and other groups as a means to gain and maintain power. This is exactly what you are advocating, you just have substituted Mormons for Jews. It isn’t any different.

                    1. You’re free to believe whatever you want.

                      Shouldn’t their be specific examples of individuals or groups that were killed for simply being Mormon? There could be that we don’t know about, but that’s not evidence that it happened.

                      Shouldn’t some mormons be able to say “my family member/friend/associate was killed or persecuted for simply being Mormon?”

                      The LDS Church doesn’t have the best track record with it’s history.

                      This is pointless because neither of us is going to admit were wrong.

                    2. For the most part the Nazis didn’t directly state any of the people killed in the Holocaust were killed because of their identity but most were killed, according to the records as being enemies of the state.

                    3. And to be clear my overall opposition to you is not based upon what the Nazis said but the fact that you advocate for genocide to deal with a group you dislike. Which is exactly what Nazis did. Rather or not they did it directly to Mormons, or only some Mormons is moot. The act of calling for genocide to deal with a group you dislike is a tactic of actual Nazis.

        2. And no one brought up anything to do with Mormons, you deranged psychopath.

  3. In the $900 billion COVID-19 relief package that passed last week, payments were set at $600.

    900,000,000,000 divided by 600 equals fuck you.

    1. $900,000,000,000 divided by 130 million US households is $7000.

      So still, fuck you.

      1. Pakistani gender studies and airline bailouts have a far bigger and more immediate effect on the economy, than $7k burning a hole in the pockets of the hoi polli.

        1. But, I mean, that would be a genuine stimulus. I know that if I had an extra 7k dropped in my lap, that’s a pretty sweet new pistol (BRNO PSD), I could extend my home automation setup, cancer treatment for my brother (we’re waiting for travel deep into Mexico to be possible again). Probably enough left over to grade the field properly. Or maybe I buy a small tractor and do it myself.

      2. So 600 will only cost me 7,000? That’s actually pretty good for most government – services?

        1. No worries. If you are in the majority of households, it will cost you little or nothing–in near term taxes. It might cost you the value of your savings or future pension payments, the viability of careers in certain industries, and those pesky personal liberties.

        2. Plus interest

  4. Sanders will filibuster an override of President Donald Trump’s defense bill veto unless the Senate holds a vote on providing $2,000 direct payments to Americans…


    1. His mouth?

    2. I’d like to say ‘good on ya, Bernie’ except his post-loss actions after losing both primaries shows that he talks a good game but as soon as the DNC snaps its fingers he’s right there at the heel.

  5. The Second Circuit just gave another win to Orthodox Jewish communities and a Catholic diocese battling discriminatory #COVID19 restrictions from Governor Cuomo.

    He’s got armies of the OT and the NT chasing him? Cuomo will have to part the sea of corpses he piled up this year to escape them.

  6. Some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have recovered from COVID-19.

    It also caused some recovered patients’ dick to fall off, so think about that next time you don’t want to lock all the way down.

    1. Is there anything that the ‘rona can’t do?

      1. Make people smarter?

      2. Seems like it’s caused psychosis in a lot of people who haven’t even caught it yet.

      3. It’s been causing mass psychosis for months.

    2. no, that was some Indonesian junk that’s going ’round.

    3. Anything to strip people from their rights. No doubt Cali et al. will be handing out 5150s to anyone who’s had so much as the sniffles.

    4. One symptom is uncontrollable, spontaneous line dancing.

  7. How the FDA killed bucatini pasta.

    Could COVID-shaped meatballs be next?

  8. If a strip club wants their place to be a sausage fest that’s their choice. I’d never fucking go there…

    1. You realize the strippers are women dumbfuck?

      1. They’re? Really?

        Learn something new everyday

        1. You don’t seem to understand that this is a hooker turf war.

    2. The club is probably between a rock and a hard place…
      Police threaten to close clubs where a lot of prostitution is occurring, so clubs try to self-police by restricting unaccompanied females. Only now they can be sued for that.

      1. This.
        The dancers don’t want outside competition coming in and poaching johns.

      2. decriminalize prostitution….. problem solved….

    3. Wait a minute. Isn’t not going to strip clubs something a Mormon would do.

      1. Yes, but many other types of people don’t either.

        Send ALL the Mormons to gas chambers.

        1. That’s a tad extreme. Even Gladys Knight?

        2. In all seriousness, although the Mormon religious beliefs are downright laughable and there are problems with their culture being insular, homophobic, etc. there are lots of positives, too. I have a few Mormon friends who have played an important and positive role in my life.

          1. They’re weirdos, but they’ve very pleasant and courteous weirdos.

          2. How many times have they tried to convert you?

            Mormons can’t be trusted. They’re liars and cheats and will do anything to force their beliefs on everyone.

            They need to be exterminated.

            They’re trying to outbreed everyone and take over.

            They worship a con artist pedophile for Christ sake. Anyone dumb enough to believe the nonsense they believe shouldn’t have kids. Let alone a dozen.

            1. Nice to see the two bigots on the board trying to find common ground.

              1. I’m just joking about hating Canadians. KillAllRednecks seems to be serious about killing all Mormons.

                1. Jokes are supposed to contain humor.

              2. Mormons are the bigots dummy! Blacks can’t join the priesthood till 1978. Native Americans coming from Israel and having dark skin because of sin. Hating gays.

                You realize you’re defending people who worship a pedo con artist?


                  Funny thing about LDS is that they update their core principles every once in a while. On one level, you can criticize them for changing edicts that were supposedly received from God to conform more to societal trends. On the other hand, it’s a positive thing that they do. Example: their leadership just issued a call for all LDS to eradicate racism.

            2. A Mormon girl made fun of your little pecker.

              1. No I would never take shit from someone inferior to me.

                1. Your lack of denial about your little pecker is noted.

            3. “How many times have they tried to convert you?”

              Zero. There was this one girl I knew back in high school who was either trying to convert me or trying to get me to go out with her, but she was so passive about it I never figured out which it was.

              “They need to be exterminated.”

              For the record, I disagree with you on that one.

              “They’re trying to outbreed everyone and take over.”

              There may be some truth to this one. Although, I know a lot of Catholic families who are giving them a run for their money.

              “Anyone dumb enough to believe the nonsense they believe shouldn’t have kids.”

              It’s not quite being dumb. It’s the whole not questioning what you grew up with and what could cause you to lose your family and community, so a portion of your brain gets walled off from your logical brain.

              1. To be fair Utah mormons are different from non-Utah mormons. Non-Utah mormons know they’re a minority and have to interact with more non Mormons which makes them less nuts.

                Utah Mormons only interact with other mormons and that’s when they bounce their crazy ideas off each other with no one there to tell them they’re nuts and wrong. That’s when they’re dangerous. Plus they’re the most stubborn people in the world. Believing the nonsense they believe teaches them to never admit they’re wrong despite overwhelming evidence.

                1. I have heard that about Utah LDS. I have never lived in Utah or spent much time there, so I only know LDS people from other places.

              2. Don’t bother WK, Kill all rednecks is either a committed troll or proof positive that Antifa is the most fascist organization around (he has claimed affiliation and supports the movement and comes from the Portland area). It is possible he is both, also. He also loves to stalk people and make inane comments that have nothing to do with the conversation thread. He is a leftist Misek or Tulpa.

                1. “he has claimed affiliation and supports the movement and comes from the Portland area”

                  “He is a leftist”

                  So he’s De Espresso?

                2. There ya go lying again! When did I claim affiliation with Antifa? Wanting Trump’s goons and the far right rednecks from SW Washington out of Portland doesn’t mean I support Antifa.

                  Why do you lie? Are you sure you’re not Mormon?

                  1. Keep kicking screaming, the first time we spoke you claimed to support Antifa. Keep screaming you little Nazi.

                    1. There ya go calling me a Nazi when I explicitly condemned the Nazis and Holocaust.

                      You lie like your cunt Mormon mother.

                      Also you’re the far right hick in the shithole part of Montana who was a soldier. You have much more in common with fascists and Nazis than me.

                    2. Calling for genocide is being a Nazi.

                    3. Yes because believing in the Constitution and individual liberty and capitalism is totally Nazi teaching. But advocating for genocide isn’t. Fuck are you really that stupid?

                    4. You’re the far right hick. I’m not a far right anything. Your ideology is closer to nazism than mine.

                    5. Says the guy calling for genocide about the guy who supports individual liberty. What part of personal freedom and live and ely live philosophy is close to Nazism?

                  2. And just for the record: your proof that the Nazis didn’t kill or send any Mormons to concentration camps because they were Mormon is basically because the Nazis stated it wasn’t because they were Mormon but because they were enemies of the state. I don’t consider that definitive proof. And feel free to post your citation again so everyone can see that is the entire basis of your charge k am lying.

                    1. Maybe I wasn’t clear. When they’re fighting the stupid hillbillies that come down from buttfuck SW Washington I want the hillbillies to lose.
                      I don’t support rioting, looting,or arson no matter whos doing it.

                      You claimed Mormons were persecuted and killed by the Nazis for just being Mormon. The mormons that were killed were killed for resisting Nazism. They weren’t killed for simply being Mormon Helmuth Huber is the most famous example. Mormons were monitored and looked at suspiciously, but lots of groups were. Jehovahs witnesses were put in concentration camps and many killed because theyre religion is apolitical and pacifist. Mormons try to claim “hey that happened to us too.” When it didn’t! They lie about everything!

                      Moroni and the Swastika: Mormons in Nazi Germany
                      Book by David Conley Nelson is pretty polemic but supports the fact Mormons weren’t treated like Jehovah’s Witnesses.

                    2. Jehovahs witnesses were also considered “too Jewish” in some of their beliefs, and mostly wouldn’t compromise. Mormons changed the words in hymns that contained words considered too Jewish like Zion.

                    3. Thank you for proving my point. That your evidence that Nazis didn’t kill Mormons for being Mormon but for being enemies of the state is because the Na,is said so. Exactly what I stated your evidence was. Wow do you just realized you stayed exactly what I said you did? Your entire proof is what the Nazis claimed.

                    4. You were claiming they were persecuted and killed for simply being Mormon. They weren’t. The ones who were persecuted and killed were targeted for resisting Nazism! THATS NOT THE SAME THING YOU STUPID FUCKING HICK! Helmuth Huber and his buddies were persecuted and Huber was killed for spreading Allied Propoganda. That’s not the same thing as being killed for being Mormon. Being looked at suspiciously isn’t the same as what happened to Jews or Jehovah’s witnesses who were persecuted and killed simply because of their religion.

                      God fucking damn you’re thick

                    5. No your proof they weren’t is the words of genocidal maniacs trying to defend themselves from crimes against humanity. Yes, keep proving my point, that you have no evidence that I am wrong.

                    6. No the evidence is from historians and other experts who study that kind of stuff for a living.

                      Where did I say my info came from Nazis?

                    7. You quote a historian who based his opinion on documentation and the testimony of Nazis on trial for crimes against humanity, ergo your proof is based upon the words of Nazis, because where do you think the historian got his information from? Not very bright are you?

                    8. No it’s not. Using Nazi’s own words as primary sources doesn’t mean they take everything at face value. They use other sources, primary and secondary, and take the context into account and try to be as accurate as possible. That includes trying to figure out the sources biases and taking that into account.

                      Don’t you know how historians work?

                      So what do you suggest? Just taking the mormons at their word? They lie about polygamy, racism, and theology. I understand why because it’s embarrassing, but the holocaust shit is just obscene. It’s offensive to the real victims of the holocaust. It does a disservice to people like Helmuth Huber to say “it was because he was Mormon.” No he was a brave kid who fought back against the Nazis! That’s why he was killed. Not because of his religion.

                    9. I rather take the word of the victims then of the perpetrators of genocide, yes. And how does calling for a new Holocaust against Mormons honor the memory of the other victims of the Holocaust? Really, do you apply logic at all?

                    10. What other sources as to why Mormons were killed in Concentration camps, is there besides the words and papers of the Nazis? Did third parties not involved in the Holocaust dispassionately inspect concentration camps? No, not until after the war. And most of their investigations themselves were based upon survivors testimonies, interrogations of Nazis and Nazi paperwork. So again, the evidence, or the preponderance of evidence relies on the testimony and paperwork of the Nazis.

                    11. And even if the historians conclusions have some validity, it doesn’t prove that I lie, just that my conclusions differ from theirs. To be a lie you have to prove I knowingly am telling a falsehood, with ill intent. Disagreeing with one historians conclusions is not knowingly telling a falsehood, it is disagreement, which is actually the root of academic thinking. Simply accepting someone’s conclusions is not critical thinking. But I doubt anyone who openly advocates for Genocide but calls other people Nazis is capable of critical thinking.

                    12. Other sources,this is just me guessing, but: mormons who lived in Germany at the time. Other germans who observed what happened. Newspapers from the time.

                      A good historian will use as many sources as they can so of course theyre going to use “bad people” as sources if it’s relevant.

                      This shouldn’t need explaining.

                    13. Ok you have a point. You are free to have your interpretation of the events. And we will never know exactly what happened. Even witnesses have biases and memories fade.

                      Forgive me for taking the trained historian’s conclusion over the hick from the shithole part of Montana.

                      Please cite some names or just any evidence at all that mormons were persecuted and killed for simply being Mormon. If you feel your interpretation is more accurate id love to hear your evidence.

                    14. The same evidence you suggest. The testimony of Germans and Mormons living in Germany. Oh and BTW, the newspapers that would be referenced would be German papers, which the Nazi party directly controlled through the Gestapo
                      You don’t know what other evidence, even admit you are just guessing. And the. Tre newspapers, which were controlled by the Nazi party. God you are a joke. As for trained historians, you have cited one not a plethora or even more than one. Also, I will be more than willing to compare CVs if you want to discuss credentials.

                    15. Yes I have only cited one book. That’s one more piece of evidence you’ve cited.

                      Yes the German newspapers would be controlled by Nazis. They’re still a source. Newspapers in france were controlled by Nazis or Petan’s govt. Still could have info that’s useful. Newspapers in england could have info. You’d have to take into account their perspective,but it still would be info.

                      We don’t have time machines! You’re dismissing sources without offering alternatives. We have to try to interpret the info that’s available.

                    16. I cited the testimony of Mormons and other Germans. You admit you are basing your conclusion on a sinhle book. I also didn’t state that was the extent of my evidence.
                      No you can’t take the words of a paper that is directly controlled by the totalitarian government as evidence of anything except the party line. In which case, considering the purpose of propaganda, especially in dictatorships, is to convince people the government is right despite evidence to the contrary, you should in fact conclude that any propaganda is therefore probably not true.

                    17. And I am not dismissing sources. I am simply drawing a different conclusion than your one source.

                3. Ah. I didn’t know he has claimed antifa affiliation. Good to know.

                  1. ! Never did. SuckerLoser76 just likes to lie about me.

                    1. You did. We are supposed to believe the person who willingly admits to wanting genocide but denies being a Nazi and takes the word of actual Nazis that they totes didn’t kill Mormons because they were Mormons at his word?

                    2. Where did I say I got my info from Nazis?

                      You sure lie like a Mormon.

                      I might of came off as sympathetic to Antifa because it was a charged up time when Trump’s goons were in town,but I don’t support rioting, looting, or arson.

                    3. Did I say you said it wD from the words of a Nazi, no I said the citation is based upon the testimony and papers of Nazis, i.e. the conclusion the historian you cited is based upon the words of Nazis. It isn’t very difficult for someone with at least a room temperature IQ to understand. But I can see why you have trouble grasping the concept.

                    4. I would not be insulting my intelligence when you have no idea how historians work. Of course theyre going to use Nazis as sources. They want as much info as possible. They don’t take it at face value. They try to account for context and bias. They’re never 100% accurate, but try to take as many sources into account as possible.

                      If there is valuable info from the Nazis themselves it would be foolish to not use it as long as you compare it to other sources, try to put it in context and realize it’s biased.
                      I’m not a historian, but I enjoy history and am familiar with how historians (and many other academics) work.

                    5. Proof I don’t understand how historians work? The fact that I keep proving that you don’t understand how evidence is procured but blindly accept their conclusions? Appealing to authority is not the sign of intelligence. Critically evaluating the evidence and applying it to test the validity of the historians conclusions is critical thinking. You assert that we should simply accept their conclusions and reject any other conclusions. That is the sign of group think not critical thinking.
                      And I am not a historians but am confident I have read as much, if not more history then you have, from multiple different viewpoints. You love history like the idiots on IFL love science, e.g. only history that supports your bias.

                    6. If it came off that we should take one authors conclusion as gospel I’m sorry.

                      All you’re saying is”I’m well read and I know.”

                      I can’t cite mormons who WERENT KILLED for being Mormon. However if mormons were killed simply because their religion then maybe there should be some evidence other than the LDS Church and it’s members.

                      Nevermind. You’ve read a lot so I’ll just take your word for it.

                    7. And you’ve read one book. And not all Jews were killed, and not all Jehova Witnesses and not all homosexuals and not all Gypsies. Also, if you study the Holocaust you know it was an incremental thing. That the list of undesirables kept growing, and that generally the first act of declaring a group undesirable was concocting leaders of crimes against the state and party.

          3. My apartment complex is posted “Private Property! No Trespassing!” Hence, we never get visits from either Mormon Bicycle Boys nor from Jehovah’s Witnesses peddling The Watchtower.

            Libertarian solutions to minor annoyances For The Win! I only wish out resident fanatic could adopt that approach and chill out.

            In the spirit of saying something nice about people during the Holidays, I do like that Mormons strive to have, maintain, and rotate a year’s supply of all needed provisions in their household. That is a goal all of us could aim for and embrace.

            People who can swing this goal will never be in a dole line, nor will they be fighting people in stores over toilet paper, cleaner, hand sanitizer, and masks during a pandemic, or bread and milk during whispers of “snow!” And you don’t need to believe in Supernatural beings to practice preparedness. In fact, unbelief is all the more reason.

            1. Mormons also have a better form of welfare than our government. You can draw from the church when in need but you either pay it back in kind or by providing work for the church.

        3. Dude, I’m a what Thomas Jefferson’s opponents called him: “A Howling Atheist.”

          And as much as I despise all religion–including Mormonism–I do not and cannot stand by and support what you propose or let you get away with it without a reply!

          God damn, man, have some Sanka! Fight rotten ideas, yes, but don’t wish harm and death on the poor carriers! They suffer more from these rotten ideas than those around them!

          1. He is deluded, he believes that because he believes Mormons were not persecuted, and some killed for being Mormon by Nazis that his calls for Genocide against Mormons is somehow different bad not akin to Nazism. He also believes, I who fully support individual liberty and oppose centralized government in most cases, am closer to being a Nazi then someone who openly advocates for genocide to deal with a group they believe is undesirable.

            1. And to be clear, I disagree with the Mormon Otherdoxy but also believe it is everyone’s right to worship or not worship now they see fit. And most Mormons I know are pretty an good, caring people.

            2. Murder is murder, and all of the murdered victims of Nazism deserve mourning, avenging justice, and the vow of “Never Again” to give that much power to anyone. (That also includes Atheists and Freethinkers who were disassembled, imprisoned, and murdered too, contrary to some Christians’ claims that Hitler and the Nazis were Atheists.)

              As quarreling as libertarians can be, I won’t assume ill-will on your part or anyone else’s until their words and deeds prove otherwise.

              1. I will take him at his word when he insists that he literally supports the idea of killing Mormons simply because they are Mormons and yes, the Nazis killed anyone who dares not walk in lockstep. And even some who did but for whatever reason lost favor. I don’t believe Nazis were atheist, but also, the historical evidence suggests they weren’t fully Christian and that Hitler wanted to replace the Christian Church with a worship of the state and the party. That his persecution of Christians was more muted because he didn’t have enough support to accomplish at that time his plan of replacing Christianity. Mainly because his own writings state that this was his ultimate plan.
                Most the time when either side claims the other side is Nazis it is hyperbole, however, advocating for genocide I think gives validity to the charge that someone is a Nazi or akin to being a Nazi.

                1. Soldiermedic76,

                  Your first and last sentences are correct. The big lesson of the Twentieth Century is summed up by a Holocaust survivor: “When someone says they want to kill you, believe them.”

                  As for Hitler and the Nazi’s position on religion, Nazi documents, regalia, and relations with allies and other nations all show that they not only didn’t denounce Christianity, but whole swaths of Christendom in Europe and South America didn’t denounce them. Also, Nazis and their allies made friendly nods and alliances with Islam.

                  The Nazi Party Platform forbade religious discrimination in Nazi Party ranks (except for Jews, natch,) and Nazi Belt Buckles sported the slogan: “Gott Mit Uns” (“God With Us.”) The Nazis called their regime The Third Reich. The Second Reich was The Kaisers, and The First Reich was Charlamagne’s Holy Roman Empire, so there’s that.

                  Pope Pius XII could have easily said: “Bad Dog! No Biscuit!” in Latin and France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Argentina, and other majority Catholic nations would have all dropped their arms and refused to help Hitler. But Pope Pius XII didn’t and they all supported the Nazis.

                  The Nazis had supporters in the Protestant Northern Europe (Vidkun Quisling in particular,) and the Nazis also admired Martin Luther’s Anti-Semitism expressed in his essay Der Jüden Und Ehren Lügen (On The Jews and Their Lies.

                  Hitler, the Nazis, and Fascists in general admired Islam and built alliances to fight their common enemies of the Jews and the Western powers. Nazi Propaganda Minister Göebbels hired The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin Al-Husseini to propagandize against Middle Eastern Jews and recruit Muslims to join the Nazis. Nazi ally Mussolini recruited Somali Muslims to fight in The Abyssinian War against what is now Ethiopia. Nazi ally Francisco Franco in Spain recruited Moroccan Muslims during the Spanish Civil War and once in power, Franco sent Moroccan Muslims to help Hitler on the Eastern Front.

                  The terms Islamofascism and Christianofascism are not just hackneyed terms, but represent real forces of history and the present for freedom-loving people to recon with and against; just because something has a religion attached to it, doesn’t make it good.

                  1. Hitler certainly corrupted and used Christianity and religion to his advantage but his writing makes clear his plan was to eventually replace all organized religion with a religion of the state. Several of his top advisors were neo-paganists. Also, a number of religious, Christian leaders did denounce Hitler and ended up in concentration camps as a result. Labeling Nazism a Christian movement, because some were Christians is no more accurate than labeling them an atheist group.
                    Hitler utilized religion but didn’t particularly appear to care about it, and saw it ultimately as an impediment to his vision of a German Reich.

                  2. As for some Nazis admiring Luther, considering Lutheranism was the largest denomination in Germany and on Scandinavia, and been since the 17th century and the end of the 30 year war, it is hardly surprising.
                    Christianity was the most populous religion in the region and Lutheranism was the largest denomination, so it is hardly surprising that Nazis aped Christianity to keep the populous in line, however, Hitler’s private papers revealed he eventually planned on eliminating Christianity, and organized religion altogether, to replace it with a German Church of the state.

                  3. Himmler spent a decade and millions of reichsmarks looking for Atlantis and the Holy Grail to prove their Aryan roots and to use as symbols for a new Nordic Religion that worshipped Aryanism.

                  4. Most of the evidence for Nazism and it’s Christin’s ties come from the period when Hitler and the Nazis were taking control and cementing their power. After 1941, Hitler and his subordinates basically turned their back publicly on Christianity and other religions. A number of Lutheran and Catholic clergy were sent to concentration camps. Churches were closed and raided. Churches in occupied territories especially were targeted by the SS. I am not apologizing for church leaders who went along, and as many Lutherans I fully accept that a number of Lutheran ministers aided Hitler (while a number also opposed him, some openly, others in more quiet methods, as did a number of Catholic clergy). But to label Nazism a Christian movement is no more accurate than to label it an atheist movement. It certainly used the veneer of religion when it suited them, but rejected it when it didn’t. And because some church leaders were compliant or passive is hardly proof of anything but that clergy are human beings like the rest of us. Some are far more willing to risk danger sticking to their principles while many others are compliant and go along to get along. Also, the papacy has a long history of being compliant with secular leaders, even when those secular leaders attacked the church and it’s beliefs. See the relationship between Napolean and the Pope.

            3. I believe mormons need to go because they’re trying to take over the country and force their nonsense beliefs on everyone. I’ve met enough that I know how those devil’s work. “People will be mad at first if we make the LDS Church the state religion, but they’ll thank us when they reach the celestial kingdom.”

              They’re mostly big government social conservatives. The worst of the worst.

              It’s self defense! Those assholes are breeding like crazy to outnumber everyone.

              1. Why do they lie about polygamy, racism, theology, and the holocaust? The first 3 because the truth is embarrassing, but they lie about the holocaust to look like “suffering christ like figures.” They’re goddamn lying devil’s who need to be stopped.

                I don’t know why everyone sympathizes with them. Anyone dumb enough to believe the horseshit they belief shouldn’t have kids let alone 12.

                1. So you admit you support genocide because you don’t agree with them. That is all you need to say.

                  1. And you believe that there is a conspiracy that no one else is aware of. Sort of like how Nazis believed jews had. A secret cabal to take 9ver the world. And you believe this justifies genocide. Gee the more you talk the more you prove you aren’t different than Nazis, except rather than Jews you label Motmons untermanschen. And just like Nazis I suspect that you won’t limit your hatred mad genocide to Mormons alone
                    Because genocidal maniacs rarely ever do.

                    1. Even your line above about the Mormons breeding to take over the world is very similar to Nazi propaganda that portrayed Jews as rats breeding out of control. They even made a damn propaganda movie about it. The more you talk the more ou reveal your similarities to Nazism.

                  2. Senator Mike Lee of Utah responded to a question about climate change that they need to procreate.

                    It’s not just in their scriptures,but they emphasize it all the time.

                    Birth control wasn’t as advanced as it is now in the early to mid 20th century so apples and oranges.

                    The Nazis also blamed the Jews for Germany losing WW1 which wasn’t true.

                    Do Mormons have lots of kids?
                    Do they believe nonsense?
                    Do they want to make society more “moral?”


                    Jesus fucking christ. Society isn’t losing anyone valuable if it loses people dumb enough to believe what they believe

  9. Reason‘s Ron Bailey explains the new, more transmissible COVID-19 variant circulating in the U.K…

    …and what it means for your New Years Eve plans, tonight at 11!

  10. How the FDA killed bucatini pasta.
    Pasta snobs hardest hit.

  11. Some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have recovered from COVID-19.

    When I had it, my psychotic break came when I couldn’t taste my Thanksgiving dinner.

    1. Your local autocrat allowed you to have a Thanksgiving?

      1. He didn’t say he ate with anyone else.

        1. Indeed, I was tastelessly all alone.

          1. But did you wear The Mask between bites?

            1. And sit at least 6 feet from the television?

              1. Jokes on you people. I didn’t eat at all. The texture of turkey is no more appealing than anything else about turkey.

                1. So… that was a win for you?

                2. Thanksgiving Feast?

                  1. Give me a preview/edit option!

    2. at least you could finally enjoy the cranberry paste

  12. “Reason’s Ron Bailey explains the new, more transmissible COVID-19 variant circulating in the U.K. that could ‘ramp up the deleterious consequences of the pandemic dramatically.'”

    Well then it’s even more important than ever to implement the Koch / Reason policy of unlimited, unrestricted immigration. Just think of all the doctors trying to move from Mexico to the US to help our overwhelmed hospitals.


    1. Cheap illegal factory laborers are immune to Covid.

  13. Well if they have the votes to override the veto, then the filibuster would end quickly with cloture. So Sanders is once again a fucking tool of the socialist left wing and the media are gullible boot lickers for even reporting it.

    1. Bernie Bro Syndrome is just as hard to cure as TDS.

  14. Now that there are mere days left in 2020, it’s time for one final look at Drumpf’s disastrous economic record.

    Four of the top 20 richest people on the planet actually lost money this year.

    Totally unacceptable. Worse, two of those four have the last name Koch. Now do you understand why Reason writers have been so relentless in criticizing Drumpf’s high-tariff / low-immigration policies?


    1. Wait until you see how much money they loose to taxes under the SleepyJoe regime.

      1. Those are not monies lost. Those are precious opportunities to support the New World Order and (maybe) personal redemption.

  15. “ramp up the deleterious consequences of the pandemic dramatically.”

    At least we know Reason isn’t part of the hyperbolic fear mongering the rest of the media is peddling. Probably could have used another adverb before “ramp up”. Maybe “viscously ramp up”?

    1. Or “another grim ramp-up”?

      1. Deadly ramp up

        1. Tony Hawk should be aware.

  16. Rachel’s Gentlemen’s Club—a strip club in Orange County, Florida—bans female patrons unless they’re accompanied by men.

    To be fair, Rachel’s does not so ban unaccompanied owners or dancers.

    1. They should be doing this at voting places.

      1. Just let the men vote in proxy for the women they own.

  17. Some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have recovered from COVID-19.

    The fun will really begin when the post-vaccine psychoses start!

    1. This will keep going and going….and going.

      Now NZ repeating six cases! LOCK THEM UP!

      Whaaa? Aren’t they the darlings of the criminal class who want perpetual lockdowns to ‘fight’ the virus.

      I’m not the sort of guy who thinks spitting in someone’s face is honourable but all these son of a bitch public officials and epidemiologists who peddle masks and lockdowns deserve to have their faces spat on. That’s how cowards deserve to be treated.

      1. I knew you guys were spitting in old people’s faces!

        1. And kick dirt in their eyes.

          I have no problem with old people in masks or taking precautions or anyone else. I have a HUGE problem with the media and officials who are paddlers of fear. I reserve my scorn for them and them only.

          1. One Roberto Alomar and an Earl Weaver on the side coming right up.

            1. Lol. Two of the best examples.

            2. +1 for Earl Weaver.

  18. Ron seems to mix up variant and strain. Two different things. For those who want a really good run down about it go to and seek out Dr. Racaniello’s video on it. He’s about had it with all these pieces of shits in media who keep ramping up the fear mongering.

    Seriously. May they all rot in hell for perpetuating one of the great health scares in history.


      “Soucy said a certain strain of virus is considered a variant when it has enough mutations to change a minor portion of its genetic code. He says the most recent variant found in the U.K. meets that benchmark.”

      1. Benchmarks. Moving goal posts. New definitions.

        All pant shitting to move the narrative along.

        Bottom line is there’s nothing to suggest we should worry.

        This virus has muted over 12 000 times already.

        1. And a little news about ‘CTV News’ they fired the last medical expert because he began to stray off the fear porn narrative. They brought in the continued ‘right think’ virologists who pimped ‘muh lockdowns’ to keep the BS going.

          1. I thought this was a discussion about the difference between the terms variant and strain, with the usual subtext of “ain’t unreason and Ron Bailey dumb”.

            1. Things change. Keep up.

              1. Goal posts move. Keep up.

                1. Yes that was Rufus’ point, do try to keep up.

                  1. Dee doesn’t even know what’s going on to begin with half the time. Now you want her to keep up?

                  2. It was weird. Rufus was simultaneously complaining about goal post moving, while moving the goal posts: he started a conversation about how dumb Ron is because he doesn’t know correct virology jargon, then move the posts to complaining that people worry and do “pant shitting” too much, which wasn’t even something he or I were discussing.

                    1. This was covered

                      Don’t look at me!
                      December.29.2020 at 11:47 am
                      Things change. Keep up

                    2. Poor Dee. So very dense.

  19. Another court has ruled in favor of Brooklyn religious groups challenging New York’s lockdown orders.

    Serious question: Have any anti-lockdown lawsuits raised the specter of slavery?

    1. Isn’t that the (alleged) end of goal of the ‘Global Reset’ to which Biden (and the douche bag Justin) are fans of?

      1. Silly. Serfs and peasants are not slaves; we are wards of the state.

        1. Little children to be guided to a glorious future.

          1. a gramme is better than a damn

  20. “Some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have recovered from COVID-19.”

    And some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have not. NYT blather; get back to us after you’ve got something other than thin correlation.

    1. Doctors and other experts are now suffering from tunnel vision.

      I suspect some projection here because I’ve noticed the experts have simply lost all sense and perspective.

      Pretty soon at this rate, Covid will be the cause of all deaths and ailments.

      1. Um, you realize that all the hype about COVID deaths was the first time Millennials heard about dying, right?

        1. Will there be a rise in philosophical tattoos depicting death?

          1. If by ‘philosophical’ and ‘depicting’ you mean retconned acultural nonsense, yes. Lots of ‘calm, cool, and levelheaded’ kanji and sanskrit getting “interpretted” as ‘melancholy, diminishing, and mortal’.

    2. The psychosis manifests itself as following people around a store to berate them for not wearing a mask, and violating distancing recommendations the whole time they’re doing it.

      1. Does the store that this hypothetical mask-free person entered have a policy requiring customers to wear a mask? If so, why is that person in that store, not wearing a mask?

        1. No, it doesn’t.

        2. Now do unaccompanied Women and Rachel’s.

          1. Pass. I have to put some limit on the issues I care about, and the laws governing strip clubs in Florida doesn’t make the cut.

            1. I accept your capitulation.

            2. I see, so you care about property rights when masks are involved but not when outright discrimination is.

              It’s almost like you know your postion is built on sand.

              1. “I see, so you care about property rights”


        3. Ffs Dee, you’re pathetic.

          1. When I was a kid, even before I knew anything about politics or had heard of libertarianism, I watched lots of Westerns. And one true-blue American value I learned is that when you enter the saloon and the owner asks you to check your gun at the door, you do it out of respect for the proprietor of the business. It’s good ol’ American cowboy honor code to follow house rules or don’t enter the business premises.

            1. He’s right. You’re pathetic.

        4. If you’re getting close enough to someone that isn’t wearing a mask just to yell at them, then you’re clearly not afraid of catching the virus.

          1. True. Are we discussing an actual event that happened, or a hypothetical scenario in which all the factors have been stacked to make the person refusing to wear a mask the hero of the story?

            1. Are we discussing an actual event that happened, or…
              No grasshopper, we are not.

            2. “The White Knight
              December.29.2020 at 12:31 pm
              True. Are we discussing an actual event that happened, or a hypothetical”

              “The White Knight
              December.29.2020 at 11:03 am
              Does the store that this hypothetical ”

              I am continuously amazed at how stupid you are.

              1. It’s funny that Dee is clearly one of the dumbest commentators here, but she acts like she’s smarter than everyone else.

                1. The Dunning-Kruger principle applies to one of us, R Mac. Or maybe even both of us. You may want to look in a mirror.

                  1. Nah, just you. And trying to make yourself look smarter by bringing up Dunning-Kruger shows that perfectly.

    3. Sevo did you try blow once and feel “addled?” It was probably mostly Meth because you live in a rural shithole!

      Or have you never done it and are just a square hater?

      Either way you’re one stupid fucking pussy!

      1. I may be misremembering, but I think Sevo said he lives in San Francisco. There’s crack in The City, of course, but Sevo just seems inherently angry.

        1. TDS-infected shits are surprised people dislike them, right, TDS-infected shit?

          1. What’s Trump have to do with this? You seem to be the one obbessing about him. Every comment has “TDS” in it.

            If you want Trump’s small penis up your ass there’s nothing wrong with that!

            1. *obsessing

              1. Have another tallboy, sarcasmic. I’m sure you can fit it in before lunch.

                1. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a sock.

                  Way too early to start drinking.

                  1. “Way too early to start drinking.”

                    Definitely not sarc then.

      2. “…Either way you’re one stupid fucking pussy!”

        From a lefty shit with a single digit IQ; NWS.

        1. Sorry you had a bad experience with drugs, but it’s not the drugs fault. It’s your fault for being so goddamn stupid!

          1. Sevo turned you down I see.

            1. Just like the little Mormon girl in middle school.

  21. How the FDA killed bucatini pasta.

    tl;dr: It wasn’t just the FDA, it was a competitor putting pressure on the FDA to ban a certain imported pasta for failing to meet the byzantine FDA requirements for pasta and the normal workings of the market in a supply shortage to produce as much of the in-demand pasta shapes and slack off on the production of less in-demand shapes.

    The problem is over-regulation by the FDA in creating too goddamn many unnecessary rules, brought about by the restraint-of-trade bullshit of regulatory capture by the trade group the FDA is supposed to be regulating. Keep that in mind when you talk about regulation – it’s not necessarily the government doing the regulating, it’s the regulated industry itself creating barriers to competitors entering the market. As Adam Smith himself said, ““People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.” He was no wide-eyed innocent about capitalism, he understood the nature of crony capitalism quite well.

    1. The problem is over-regulation by the FDA creating too goddamn many unnecessary rules

      Fixed it

  22. “Orange County was not a defendant,” and “state law requires counties to be brought in as parties when ordinances are challenged,” the Sentinel explains. “Because of that, the [state] Supreme Court declined to hear the case last week. Orange County has been added as a defendant, and the case is moving forward.”

    These kinds of clubs are usually relegated to industrial areas away from churches and, especially, schools–and almost always require a conditional use permit. Establishments like this will typically willingly agree to stipulations for their conditional use permit like this. After all, a business like this requiring a conditional use permit means less competition from others in the area–it works the same way with liquor stores.

    If the club in question is away from anything resembling a school, there may not be a good reason for there to be a CUP or a condition that unaccompanied women aren’t allowed. If there is a school nearby, local residents, the city council, the local school district, the county sheriff, local law enforcement, and the county may have legitimate concerns.

    If there were no requirements to keep out prostitutes, prostitutes trawling an establishment full of half-drunk, horny young guys with cash in their pockets would be a no-brainer, and that establishment would become a magnet for prostitution–as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow. The last thing local voters and all those local officials want is half-drunk, horny young guys with cash in their pockets propositioning school aged girls either by accident or on purpose. They’ll probably shut the club down before they allow that.

    In other words, the alternative to conditions that require strip clubs to actively discourage prostitution at their establishment may not be unaccompanied women being admitted to the club. The alternative may be the city, the county, the local school district, the local sheriff, the local police department, and the voters all working together to deny the club a permit the next time their conditional use permit comes up for a vote. It might be the end of the club in that neighborhood.

    Before demonstrating his ideas with economic data, Adam Smith taught us that local customs and mores that evolve over time are far more complicated, far more effective, and far more desirable than having the government come in and inflict its own solution. The reason the strip club shouldn’t upset the apple cart here is the same reason local liquor stores shouldn’t sell alcohol to minors without their parents’ knowledge or permission. The libertarian argument here is that it shouldn’t be necessary for the government to inflict these considerations on an establishment like this by way of licensing, etc. since businesses like this know that their survival depends on taking local concerns into consideration. Pizza restaurants don’t need an ordinance to tell them not to use racist terms on their menus either because it might threaten their profits and the existence of their business.

    If non-sex positive feminist activists are getting behind this suit as a tactic to shut down strip clubs, it wouldn’t surprise me. Again, the alternative to actively discouraging prostitution this way may be to shut down the club. So, if you’re someone who wants to shut down the club, it would make sense to oppose letting clubs discriminate against unaccompanied women.

  23. Some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have recovered from COVID-19 locked up in solitary confinement for 8 fucking months.

  24. Went to one of these joints years ago; after some skank gyrated her twat in my face for several minutes. I’d had enough.

    But if there are women who are in to that, that is their choice.

    1. It was really 30 seconds.

  25. “Trump Gets None of His Demands in the Spending Bill but Signs It Into Law Anyway”

    —-Elizabeth Nolan Brown, December 28, 2020

    Those chickens probably shouldn’t have been counted before they were hatched.

    “Sanders will filibuster an override of President Donald Trump’s defense bill veto unless the Senate holds a vote on providing $2,000 direct payments to Americans,” Politico reports.”

    —-Elizabeth Nolan Brown, December 29, 2020

    The reason we’re talking about $2,000 direct payments is because President Trump used the bully pulpit. We may see Trump get some of his demands after all. We won’t know until Wednesday, when McConnell decides whether to call a vote on the $2,000 direct payments. The Senate will definitely need to have a vote to override President Trump’s veto of the $741 billion National Defense Authorization Act.

    When you see President Trump break down his reasons for vetoing the National Defense Authorization Act, a number of them are compelling. There are billions in pork there for everything from the performing arts to foreign aid to countries like Egypt.

    No matter where you should stand on the $2,000 direct payments, it will be an extremely awkward moment for senate Republicans if, on the one hand, they vote to override President Trump’s veto of the defense bill–despite all the pork for Egypt, other countries, and the performing arts–and then turn around, on the same day, and vote against a bill to give $2,000 to average American voters because that’s too much pork!

    McConnell is presumably doing everything he can behind the scenes to make sure the bill that increases direct payments to $2,000 never comes to vote–to save his fellow Republicans from that embarrassment.

    And if either the defense bill fails or the direct payments bill goes through, I suppose we’ll ENB’s headline the next day read something like, “Trump Gets None of His Demands”.

    1. ENB would never acknowledge a Trump win.

    2. All you hear on the media is a bunch of reps claiming our military needs this money while ignoring all the pork to other countries if all the news reported on teh pork the budget would get to realistic needs size but since its TDS till jan 20 nothing will happen

      1. And the media doesn’t understand why their credibility is in the toilet.

        1. For four years, I’ve criticized Trump on immigration, trade, and Section 230. I’ve made the case against Trump’s policies on those issues dozens of times over the last four years.

          I supported Trump’s reelection despite that–both because Biden and the Democrats are so bad on so many issues that are important to libertarian capitalism and because Trump was so good on so many other issues that are important to libertarian capitalism.

          To whatever extent I’m credible, it’s because of a) facts and logic and b) because I’m willing to criticize Trump when he’s wrong. To the extent that journalists and others are unwilling to give Trump credit when he’s right–because they oppose him–they aren’t hurting Trump’s support at all. They’re just hurting their own credibility. And failing at facts and logic makes it far worse.

  26. “Some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have recovered from COVID-19.”

    Still waiting for the reports on psychosis in politicians who have promoted COVID-19.

    1. Psychosis mixed with sociopathy.

    2. Some doctors are reporting psychosis gettin jiggy wit it.

  27. This could be a big deal:

    “Two months ago, PayPal Holdings Inc. opened its platform up to bitcoin, allowing its 361 million users world-wide to buy or sell the asset. In early 2021, it will expand the options, allowing users to tap their bitcoin balances for payments to any of the 28 million merchants that use PayPal.”

    That is good news not only for Bitcoin but also for all the other cryptocurrencies that are freely exchangeable with Bitcoin.

    P.S. Does the Fed have their own mining farm yet?

  28. The strip club case isn’t about LGBTs, it’s about straight women who like going unaccompanied to strip clubs just to watch. I mean, yes, that’s possible, and I’m not saying it’s untrue, it just doesn’t sound common.

    1. Or to meet guys?

      1. And then they ask, “Why do all my boyfriends end up being creeps?’

        1. Jack and Jill went up the hill
          each with a buck and a quarter.
          Jill came down with $2.50.

          1. sounds like an old story. $1.25?

            1. “Quarter” is supposed to rhyme with “to fetch a pail of water“.

              And all credit goes to Andrew Dice Clay.

        2. Those “boyfriends” are temporary.
          A great romance that lasts 10 minutes at most, but at least there’s a lump-sum palimony payment at the end.

          1. At the end? No way. Cash up front.

    2. Ken makes a compelling case above.

    3. It’s about discouraging prostitution.

      A large number of horny guys?




      Ready to spend money?


      The reason scalpers sell their tickets in the parking lot of the stadium is because that’s where there’s a ton of people who want to buy tickets.

      This is also why they don’t want strip clubs anywhere near schools. They don’t want school age girls walking around the neighborhood being propositioned by horny half-drunk guys with a bunch of money in their pockets.

      You also find a lot of prostitutes around Marine bases on payday and hanging around the hotel bars around the airport. They tend to stick strip clubs near the airport for similar reasons: you’ve already got a lot of that activity around, and they typically won’t put schools near the airport runway anyway for safety and noise reasons.

      1. Or like in Baltimore right next to police headquarters and the district courthouse.

      2. Ken, you sure know a lot about strip joints. Just saying.

        1. Why do you think he’s always going on about libertarian capitalism?

        2. Commercial real estate guys know all about conditional use permits.

          You can charge amazing rents from tenants that can’t move and when they’re in an industry in which competition is extremely limited because everyone has a really hard time getting a new CUP to do something like that.

          Getting a brand new CUP to serve alcohol and do adult ballet in the era of #MeToo in a place like California . . . um . . . might be an amazing feat at this point–especially with the public comment period.

          Those places bring a ton of revenue in via taxes, but they only get renewed because they’re tucked away between a rendering plant and a machine shop in the industrial district where the voters never go or hear about. Even then, if they’re visible from the freeway, the strip club is probably located in a municipality that’s really hard up for tax revenue.

          I once saw a police chief walk into a city council meeting and destroy any chance a guy had of selling his property for a 7-11 to be built on it–because they needed a liquor license to sell beer, the 7-11 wouldn’t buy the land unless the city approved the liquor license beforehand.

          All five city council people looked like they were planning to approve it. You usually don’t bother going up before the city council unless you’ve met with them privately and have a pretty good idea they’ll vote for you. The chief of police showed up in uniform to speak against it as a private citizen. Said it would be a magnet for criminal activity, that kids would be hurt by it, etc., etc–with no facts to cite at all, just his own claims.

          The unanimously voted against CUP.

          That was in southern California!

          The biggest price we pay for being subject to the arbitrary power of government is all the things we never knew we never had. We miss the stuff we lose, but the stuff we could have had is just as important, maybe more so.

      3. Interesting on the prostitution angle. I hadn’t realized that. But it makes sense. However, since I oppose anti prostitution laws I hope they win the case and at some point we allow prostitution to be legalized.

  29. Some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have recovered from COVID-19.”

    if they had seen the patients before they’d know they were already Psychotic

    1. Given the way hospitalizations for Covid skew towards the elderly it could be incipient or previously undiagnosed dementia.

      Psychosis is a word that gets thrown around a lot in medicine. There is a recognized diagnosis of Psychosis NOS, but otherwise it’s a symptom of some disease or condition. In the acute care setting this is often Delirium, which is a temporary condition commonly associated with all manner of serious disease processes.

      1. Another thing is many elderly people with early to mid onset dementia who live at home, especially if family is not nearby, function fairly normally because of routine. Their dementia is rarely diagnosed until something disrupts that routine, such as the death of a spouse or an acute illness that requires hospitalization. When I worked acute care, we saw this all the time. The kids were always “well Mom is a little eccentric, forgetful and always tells us the same story but she is demented”. Then why did she pull out her catheter (with a 30 cc fully inflated bulb), strip naked and go running down the hallway last night, screaming we were all going to kill her?

        1. *she isn’t demented. Families are often in denial.

  30. I don’t think the appeals court got that right. Nobody challenged the county ordinance. The plaintiffs certainly didn’t challenge it. Their case depends on it. And from what I can tell, the defendants didn’t challenge it either. They just said it didn’t apply.

  31. or based on outdated and heteronormative thinking

    “heternormative” thinking is only considered outdated by journalism majors and gender-studies academics.

  32. Free association rights solves the strip club problem. But don’t tell any progressives that.

  33. Some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have recovered from COVID-19.

    Caused by the virus or by the isolation they had to endure until they caught the virus anyway?

  34. Some doctors are reporting psychosis in patients who have recovered from COVID-19.

    Not to mention psychosis evident in the Reason staff’s writings on COVID-19.

  35. “How the FDA killed bucatini pasta.”

    Did anyone involved with that story bother to check Amazon? I’m going with nope.

    1. Reason writers aren’t investigative journalists, they’re opinion and commentary writers. So no, they aren’t required to do that type of background research.

      1. That is true, at least when they are blogging at (what used to be called) “Hit & Run”. Have you contemplated the name, “Hit & Run”: it clearly implied a place to blog quick thoughts. (And, being a baseball metaphor, just had to come from Welch.)

      2. Unfortunately after more research it seems bucatini isn’t actually a thing and it must be a form of either spaghetti or macaroni. We know it can’t be vermicelli because it is tubular which would violate the rules for vermicelli but that’s probably ok since it would also require a diameter of less than .06″ which is probably very difficult to make tubular and it would be unlawful if you tried. Just remember to keep your vermicelli “cord-shaped” because if it’s “ribbon-shaped” it’s not vermicelli it’s a noodle.

        Spaghetti can be either tubular or cord shaped and between .06″ and .11″ in diameter. The code doesn’t specify whether that is the inside diameter or outside diameter so you’re on your own.

        Finally we get to macaroni which must be tubular and greater than .11″ but less than .27″ in diameter. Again, no indication on whether it’s ID or OD or even if that’s the diameter when dry or wet as presumably it expands somewhat on cooking.

        Presumably pasta such as paccheri is too large in diameter and acini di pepe too small for the FDA and are either unregulated or illegal. Wait, acini di pepe would fall under either vermicelli or spaghetti since there is no length requirement so check your diameter carefully. Paccheri and quite likely rotelle are still suspect however along with a whole bunch of other pasta-forms.

        See what Covid lockdowns do? I actually looked up the legal definitions of damn pasta noodles. I suppose there are worse ways to spend a furlough day since I could work for the FDA and write such bullshit definitions.

    2. Four pounds of pasta for $32?!

      1. Market pricing. Of course there’s always DIY bucatini. Probably pay for itself if you have a permit to sell fresh FDA certified noodles to your neighbors.

        1. Hmm, we’ve already got the KitchenAid. So, after I make each strand of pasta, how do I bore a hole down the middle?

          1. My god, you are dumb.

          2. Use the die labeled “Bucatini” on page 2 of the user guide. If ribbed bucatini is more your style give it a shot with the one labeled “Small Macaroni” as they appear to be about the same size. Who knows, maybe ribbed bucatini will become a bigger hit since it has more surface area and thus more area for sauce to cling to.

            1. Ribbed for her pleasure

  36. People keep bringing up the “discourage prostitution” reason for banning unaccompanied women at strip clubs, but there’s another important reason strip clubs do so — to keep angry wives and girlfriends from barging in and confronting their SOs.

    1. Not that it happens a lot but men also do get or show up drunk and grabby in strip clubs and have to be forcibly removed from the premises. Employees are easy enough to identify and protect. Women otherwise unaffiliated with the club should bring their own muscle.

      There are dozens of reasons why ‘accompanied women’ is a fair policy that any other strip club is free to ignore, that isn’t mandated by law, and that existing clubs have adopted of their own volition.

  37. Our gay bars had to start charging extra cover for females because drunken bachelorettes would bring their posses and take over the place. It was a matter of conflicting safe spaces.

  38. Discrimination by private entities is a human right. The “right not to be discriminated against” doesn’t exist.

  39. Why is this an “LGBT” issue? What does it have to do with male homosexuality or transgender issues? Seems to me, this is a female homosexual/bisexual issue only.

    1. Seems to me, this is a female homosexual/bisexual issue only.

      As others have pointed out, not even that. It’s not clear that the women were denied entry because of their homo/bisexuality and it’s entirely plausible they were there to retrieve male spouses or attract male customers. As far as the law is concerned, they could’ve been conducting academic research for their human sexuality or pole dancing classes.

      The assertion that this is an LGBT issue demonstrates the completely predictable stupidity that there is/was an LGBT agenda even if LGBT people aren’t in charge of it. It’s an explicit attempt to reframe secular human and religious rights in a less intelligible but more authoritatively useful framework.

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