Election 2020

Americans Dislike Both Biden and Trump

Hostility to political opponents sustains what's left of the legacy parties.


On the opening night of the Democratic National Convention, former First Lady Michelle Obama begged voters to resist the urge to refrain from voting or to vote for third-party candidates. "This is not the time to withhold our votes in protest or play games with candidates who have no chance of winning," the former first lady exhorted whatever audience, perhaps out of masochism, chose to tune in to the virtual convention.

It was a fitting moment of desperation—and one that should be echoed at the Republican convention—given the disdain many Americans hold for the presidential candidates of both legacy parties. Once again, we're being asked to pick between candidates that just aren't up to the job.

"As both political parties prepare for their conventions, one in four Americans do not think either of the major-party presidential candidates would be a good president," Gallup noted last week. "The current percentage saying neither candidate would make a good president is the highest on record."

Unfortunately, one of those hopefuls is almost certain to win or retain power over a government that has too much say in our lives.

It's no wonder that in 2016, millions of voters picked Libertarian Gary Johnson or Green Jill Stein or declined to vote at all rather than choose between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. That year, the Democratic and Republican nominees headed into Election Day "with the worst election-eve images of any major-party presidential candidates Gallup has measured back to 1956."

The 2020 election represents an ongoing demonstration that America's governing apparatus is trapped in the embrace of the rotting corpses of once-dynamic political organizations. Democratic and Republican Party hearts and minds may have died, but they refuse to loosen their grip on political office—and on voters.

And, out of habit or old lessons remembered too long, most Americans dutifully confine their choices to these two moldering options, no matter how unpleasant the task. The result, as The New York Times reported in June, is "the second straight presidential contest in which both candidates are viewed negatively by a majority of voters."

How negatively?

Both legacy party candidates are underwater, favorability-wise. According to Gallup, just 47 percent of Americans view Biden favorably and 42 percent view Trump favorably,

With those kinds of numbers, non-party-loyalists who feel absolutely compelled to pick between the zombie Democrats and zombie Republicans are going more by who they oppose than by enthusiasm for the nominees themselves.

"Half of the nation's electorate says they have ruled out voting for Donald Trump in November, while 4 in 10 say the same about Joe Biden," the Monmouth University Polling Institute found last month. "Overall, 21% of all registered voters do not have a favorable opinion of either party's nominee."

That process of elimination doesn't mean that voters ruling out one legacy party nominee are binding themselves to the other. There are alternatives: Libertarian Party candidate Jo Jorgensen, a psychology lecturer, seems an apropos alternative as the high-profile candidates credibly accuse each other of senility; the Green Party's Howie Hawkins is neither Biden nor Trump; and millions of voters will completely take a pass on casting a ballot in-person, by mail, or in any other way.

But chances are that either Donald Trump will retain the presidency, or Joe Biden will displace him. And all the signs point to many Americans casting their votes not for the candidate they like, but rather against the candidate they dislike.

Hate-voting is a growing phenomenon in American politics. "Hostility toward the opposing party has eclipsed positive affect for ones' own party as a motive for political participation," researchers reported in a 2018 paper published by Political Psychology. The authors of that paper, Shanto Iyengar and Masha Krupenkin, also found that "while partisan animus began to rise in the 1980s, it has grown dramatically over the past two decades."

It's this hostility to political opponents that apparently sustains what's left of the legacy parties—not for their own sakes, but as counters to the despised opposition. People may not like their own standard-bearers very much, but they prop them up as weapons against the other side.

Alan Abramowitz and Steven Webster, political scientists at Emory University, call this "negative partisanship—the phenomenon whereby Americans largely align against one party instead of affiliating with the other." In a 2018 paper, they describe negative partisanship as "one of the most important developments in American politics over the last 40 years."

Hate-voting is a hell of a way to run a semi-functioning democracy. It suggests that the government is on ground as shaky as that occupied by the legacy political parties.

"The fact that so many Americans in both the last election and this one have expressed an aversion to each of the major candidates speaks to the heavy polarization that now defines the national electorate—not to mention the wholesale disillusionment many voters feel with the political system," The New York Times's Giovanni Russonello observed.

Perhaps—just a thought here—a political system in which so many Americans have lost faith is one that shouldn't exercise as much power over people's lives as does the government with which we're saddled. When millions of Americans who will have to live with the outcome of the election "do not think either of the major-party presidential candidates would be a good president," it's a good sign that the consequences of elections should be less important.

Getting Americans to like each other, let alone doddering legacy party political candidates, is a goal beyond anybody's reach. But making government less important might lower the stakes a bit so that it doesn't matter all that much when unfit candidates win office.

NEXT: No, AOC Didn't Snub Joe Biden

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  1. I have more disdain for Jo Jorgensen though…

    1. We must be “actively anti-racist.”

      1. She misspoke when she said, “BlackLivesMatter.” What she meant was, “Black Lives Matter.”

        Like Jeffrey Tambor’s lines in The Death of Stalin, people are looking to her for reassurance and she has no idea what’s going on.

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    2. Jorgensen is fine as a protest vote. Gary Johnson was actually the best presidential candidate on the ballot last time though, in qualifications and temperament and character.

      1. Bake that cake?

        1. Stop being such a basic bitch culture war obsessive.

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          2. Maybe once you stop being a basic bitch, period?

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      3. Trump turned out to be the most Libertarian-ish candidate that won the White House.

        Trump is more popular now than ever. The MSM and unreason trying so hard to say otherwise just supports the adage that whatever Lefties say, the opposite is 99% true.

      4. Yup. I voted for him and Weld, whom I watched turn Massachusetts around as a Massachusetts Governor. I thought they had the most sensible ticket. But alas …

    3. Of course you do, you are actively anti-libertarian. And a racist.

    4. I have more disdain for Jo Jorgensen though…

      In a field of zombie Democrats and zombie Republicans, Jo manages to effect a decent Carl Grimes (the TV version).

    5. Oh look. A non-voter who doesn’t read platforms.

      1. So?

    6. Assuming that you claim to be a Libertarian (upper or lowercase). I don’t understand not voting or voting for 10% of what you want because you disagree with a comment or even 10% of what Jo Jorgensen stands for.

      The Libertarian party needs to come together so there can be success. Even if the success is not 100% pure Libertarian, getting 50% is much better than the -50% the other parties offer us.

      The Libertarian purists need to understand that there will NEVER be a 100% purist Libertarian elected right out of the gate. Even if a 100% pure Libertarian (if there is even such a thing) was elected right away, things would not change over night. Policies need to be changed incrementally, because too much too soon will lead to revolt.

      The Libertarian party needs to shift the focus towards Libertarian ideas and demonstrate Libertarian ideas can work. This is what will win people over. You will never win the masses over if you insist on a 100% purity test.

      I will up the ante even more by saying that a 100% purity test is not even a Libertarian ideal. It’s more of a Republicrat idea or the tactic of the woke crowd.

      Libertarians distrust government so much be cause we acknowledge that people can make errors in judgement and centralized decision making is prone to errors. The problem with centralized decision making is there is no recourse if the government has the power to force its will on the people. Conversely if we limit the power of government and decision making is largely left to the individual, an error in our decision making does not effect other people

      1. I am not a libertarian. Could’ve been, but the party and spokespeople turn me away. Beyond that, I find it too theoretical, dogmatic, and unrealistic.
        Libertarian ideas are a fine supplement, but they aren’t comprehensive. Be that as it may, I’m not big on rigid ideologies.

        Jorgensen pimping BLM’s narrative is disqualifying. It is worse than Gary Johnson’s “bake the cake” mandate. She is pushing a fundamentally collectivist, marxist perspective; and there is no greater threat to liberty.
        She can say anything she wants about policy or philosophy, but it matters not because she’s endorsed totalitarianism.

      2. My suggestion for the libertarian party, take it as you will, would be to focus on ideas and persuading people rather than bitching, and to establish a local presence instead of distracting yourselves with vanity presidential campaigns.
        But I don’t think libertarians, at least not at a national level or among leadership, are serious about accomplishing anything. The impression I get is that the priority is “being A libertarian” and sniping at the popular kids from the sidelines. You think not choosing a side puts you above the fray – I disagree. I think not choosing a side is just retreat from the ideological/political battlefield dressed up as virtue. You’re going to be subject to the conditions created by whoever wins, but hey – at least you didn’t try. And if you didn’t try, you didn’t fail… right? You take refuge in a dogmatic “everyone is stupid except us, look at all the lovers playing team sports” posture, meanwhile you affect nothing and remain discontent.
        Yall basically come off as the goth kids of high school, which is disappointing.
        While I like some of you and think some of you are really smart, I’m not interested in dressing the same as yall and I’m not content just making fun of the people who choose to compete.

        1. Well said, Nardz. Wholly agree.

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    11. I’m pissed off at Jo Jorgensen for sucking up to BLM, but to have the chance to spite the Obamas? That’s gonna be tough…

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  2. Over many decades most Americans realized that nothing changed when they cast a ballot. RINOs and democrats feed from the same trough and the bureaucracy doesn’t really change it just grows. Hillary and JoeKamala are just the latest examples of boorish politicians making the same pitch. But the jobs went away and incomes didn’t rise. We bled ourselves by shipping some jobs overseas and replacing talented employees with cheaper foreign imports. Makes sense for business but makes the population wonder what is the point of propping up a system that works against them. Now they are attracted to socialism’s siren call again. It worked its way into the two parties which are becoming one. Trump was the last chance and even that might fail because the forces arrayed against us are so powerful.

    A vote for a third party is not a vote at all. Maybe some future Election Day a new party will champion us but today it’s a non vote. If you want economic freedom You only have one choice and a last chance to vote Trump. Otherwise you’re giving up to leftism and its violent purpose.

    1. Voting only matters in the handful of swing states. My voting third party isn’t going to change the outcome in my red state.

      1. even in the handful of swing states, a single vote doesn’t matter.
        the only value of a vote is in indicating your true preference so it can be counted and recorded.

    2. Even if you are in a swing state a vote for a third party is more valuable than voting for the old parties.

      1. The popular vote is a meaningful metric for third parties. If the Libertarian Party reaches 5% it will change American politics forever.

      2. It illuminates a constituency that the old parties are forced to recognize. When the old parties see third party votes increasing they take notice. They need to respond accordingly to avoid losing the market share of votes, meaning they will be making concessions in a libertarian direction.

      1. ” If the Libertarian Party reaches 5% it will change American politics forever. ”

        How would a slightly better third-place result change anything?

        1. debate invitation?

          1. they moved that goalpost to 15%, when Ross Perot was polling at 9%.

            1. And it only took 24 years for a candidate who wasn’t the diametric opposite of him to win…

              1. A candidate who was a member of Perot’s own Reform Party, no less.

          2. A debate invitation would more likely reduce than increase votes for a Libertarian Party candidate. Exposure tends to make Libertarian Party candidates far less popular.

            1. I’m not sure how one makes that case after two record setting years under Gary Johnson. What is this based on?

              1. Ross Perot was far more successful than the libertarians have ever been, and he didn’t even have a party.
                Trump signed up as a republican and won the presidency.

                Maybe libertarians would do better practicing that individuality that they supposedly preach, and get behind an individual instead of worrying so much about the Libertarian image.
                Find someone with the balls to be an iconoclast, an individual

                1. Beside his of money and lighter institutional restrictions allowing him a larger audience, Perot was popular because he was not an individualist. It is easy to be popular when you don’t have to worry about principles.

                  The best the Ls can do in this system is decrease their margin of loss to demonstrate interest in their priorities and apply pressure for electoral reform that would actually allow them to gain seats in the government.

                  1. It is easy to be popular when you don’t have to worry about principles.

                    Perot gained supporters because he didn’t have to hew to a party line, knew how to use mass media to get his message out, and the economy was in the middle of a recession, so everyone was desperate for somebody to offer some kind of tangible plan for getting us out of it. Principles, or the lack of them, had nothing to do with it.

                    1. I’m not saying Perot’s success depended on his lack of principles, but that if Perot had to campaign with such a burden he would have been less successful. This is important for any Libertarian candidate to be aware of when campaigning because they are representing a set of principles. Perot was simply representing himself and could campaign with more flexibility.

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                2. Ross Perot was far more successful than the libertarians have ever been, and he didn’t even have a party.

                  Here’s a dirty little secret about the Libertarian Party: You have a better chance of winning an election with no party affiliation at all than you do as a member of the Libertarian Party.

                  True independents have won Congressional seats. The Libertarians have never been elected to Congress…in almost fifty years. Independents have won governorships as recently as 2018. The Libertarian Party has never won a governor’s race in almost 50 years. In almost 50 years, they’ve won about 10 state legislature seats. Independents have won far more than that.

                  The reality is that if you go through the LP’s list of Libertarian office holders, most of the positions to which they got elected candidates are non-partisan and inconsequential, and those candidates will flip to a major party if they ever decide to move higher up the political ladder. The LP is nothing but a waste of time.

            2. So, as you are exposed to far more people, you become less and less popular there, huh, Kirksie?

        2. It would be the balance of power in numerous districts, forcing one party or another (or even both) to propose some policy changes that would bring over those who voted Libertarian. It worked for the socialists a hundred years ago. Remember that votes aren’t weighed, they are counted. The only way to determine what the libertarian component of the total vote count is, is if the votes can be separated out into their own pile.

          1. Exactly. Remember that the Prohibition Party barely won any elections but got everything that they wanted. As their constituency grew, measured by the popular vote and decreasing margins of victory by the major parties, the old parties were forced to acknowledge their interests and made concessions to get those voters back.

        3. 5% is not simply a higher number. It is the threshold at which the government recognizes a minor party. Being federally recognized as a party is a big deal. They’ll qualify for funds, which, yes, will lead the party into the debates. The LP will be too difficult to ignore at that point and voters will finally have easy access to the message of their candidates.

          1. And you actually think the Libertarian Party would take matching federal campaign funds?

            1. Yes. Political parties exist to take the strategic stands that their own voters oppose.

          2. the bi-partisan debate commission put the level at 15% just in case

        4. 5% would qualify the LP for federal matching funds, which they would have to turn down out of principle.

          1. I thought people who were that strict about principle were the types who don’t vote or run for office because it legitimizes the system or something. Those types of people won’t be the ones who qualify for the funds in the first place.

      2. Totes logical, as long as you completely ignore reality and learning anything from history

      3. The spoiler vote clout is strong in this one. ALL major changes in U.S. laws (most of them bad) came from the spoiler votes of third-parties. This was back before Auschwitz, Ukraine, Treblinka, Siberia, Guyana and Pol Pot took some of the idealistic lustre off of socialist altruism. But any kid can calculate the relative clout: a vote for the looter kleptocracy is 0.00000007% of votes cast. An LP vote with 20x the clout is worth 0.0000014% of the total vote. Logistics replacement curves tell the looters to change laws or that hand in the till will soon look like Captain Hook’s stump.

    3. “If you want economic freedom You only have one choice and a last chance to vote Trump.”

      Negative. This country is fucked regardless of which of these jackasses we choose.

      1. See? The anti-conceptual policy of voting for jackasses, not principles, is still popular with people who stare at teevee for info.

    4. “RINOS” is funny. If that’s been the core of the party for decades, how are they the RINOs? The republican party is what it is, not what you wish it was.

      1. They have been RINOs for decades. LIbertarians and Republicans know the difference. Other people refuse to accept that they are different groups.

        John McCain and wife and all the other RINOs have been selling out conservatism for decades.

        You people make me laugh as if much of GOP America doesnt see straight thru their bullshit lies. These RINOs are now just exposing themselves for the Democrats that they are.

        Republicans learned from Bush and now the GOP is leaning toward Trump’s brand of Libertarianism.

        1. GOP America? The one that keeps electing these “RINOs”? I feel like you are missing the point. At a certain point, when voters keep electing these people, they become the genuine representatives of the party.

          Democrats and Republicans are political parties, not defined ideologies. It’s the actual actions of the party that determines what makes a “real” republican, not your preconceived notion of what their ideology should be. I’d like it if Republicans were more libertarian. Perhaps they are moving that way. But at the moment, that’s not what they are. If you want a libertarian-conservative party, you probably need to start one.

          1. You miss the point and usually do.

            These politicians are lying about being Republicans. They sided with Democrats because they cannot get elected as a Republican. The GOP is guided by their platform.

            You will never see McCains wife be elected as a republican. Ever.

            Trump is hated by RINOs because they got the boot from the GOP finally. Romney, Amash, Kasich…they sided with democrats and in the GOP under Trumps leadership Real republicans fight the Lefties.

            1. Same thing happens here in Georgia. Democrats cannot win in most areas so they lie and say that they are republicans or libertarians. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesnt.

              With Trump, these RINOs out themselves by what they say or do. The electorate likes that Trump is fighting for them and more and more are willing to fight because of it.

    5. This is self-defeating rhetoric. Voting third party is only a wasted vote because people like you keep telling people voting third party is a wasted vote.

      Vote third party. The more voter share third parties steal from major parties, the more they’ll have to shift to hold voters or die. And the only way a third party becomes a major party is by, shocker, people voting for it.

      1. Exactly. I’m done with voting the lesser of two evils. All it seems to get us is more….evil.

      2. Why the fuck would libertarians want to show support for a party that panders to totalitarian leftists?

        1. Exactly. Until the LP acts Libertarian and rejects Democrats and RINOs trying to sabotage Libertarianism, I wont give the LP support.

        2. That’s why I will only vote for myself. I can’t in good conscience put my support behind any of these assholes.

          1. It takes an asshole like Trump to stand up to Lefties trying to literally burn down the USA.

            Still the best President in US History, thanks to Lefties.

      3. That is pretty much my attitude = Voting third party is only a wasted vote because people like you keep telling people voting third party is a wasted vote.

        The only wasted vote is the vote not cast.

      4. This is how it has always worked. John Sherman, who held every office but President, wrote pitifully about how they whined, wheedled, caved, bootlicked and kowtowed to appease the prohibitionists. Today we understand that Prohibition caused the Crash, Banking Panics and Great Depression just as socialism caused famine, war and death camps. John Hospers explained a lot in Libertarianism, but Milton Friedman tipped us off about the law-changing clout of spoiler votes. Libertariantranslator

  3. I see some issues where I don’t like president Trump on policy, with immigration and international trade leading the way. I still think he’s probably the most libertarian president we’ve had since World War II, and I see a lot of good policies to like.

    Total withdraw from Afghanistan, withdrawing troops from harm’s way in Syria (rather than war), isolation of Iran (rather than war), those are all good things like from a libertarian perspective.

    I like Trump’s deregulation program, with his work against ObamaCare especially. I like President Trump steadfastly refusing to sign any stimulus bill rather than send $1 trillion to the states.

    President Trump fought to get a bill on his desk that would have cut $772 billion from Medicaid–a socialist wealth redistribution entitlement program. President Trump is campaigning now on eliminating social security from our payroll taxes–which may be the most libertarian capitalist thing he could possibly do.

    I didn’t vote for him in 2016, and I don’t like him personally. He isn’t the kind of guy I’d have over to play poker with friends. He’s an egotistical ass, and I bet he’s obnoxious to be around in real life. But I enthusiastically like some of his policies, and I plan to vote for him in 2020.

    Grown ups don’t need to like the people they work with. And good managers don’t put people in positions based on whether they like them. You put the best person for the job in that position, and that’s what President Trump is–he’s the best one for the job.

    1. In all honesty I didn’t vote for him in 2016(didn’t vote period) But I just can’t reward the stupid bullshit tactics of his enemies the last three years with a victory. I. Just. Can’t. Call it a dumb tribalistic response fine okay it is. I just hate his enemies so fucking much and I can’t stomach their brazen tactics being used to this extent ever again.

      1. People try to pretend that there’s some third option, but if President Trump doesn’t win, Biden may be the only thing standing between us and the socialists in the Democratic Party. And all indications are that he’ll be onboard with whatever they’re doing.

        “Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face.”

        —-Official Joe Biden for President website.


        It’s all about “environmental justice” and an equitable distribution of wealth.

        To keep Biden out of the White House is a perfectly legitimate reason to vote for President Trump.

        1. I’m voting for Trump because he’s one of the few politicians with political capital and supporters to stand up to Democrats and their Socialism.

          1. See? Ignorant brutes will appeal to coercion until that bright flash tells the folks farther from Ground Zero what a stupid approach that was. But that’s OK. Evolution is a harsh schoolmistress too.

        2. Especially since the DNC convention theme is basically “Vote for Biden, he’s not Trump.” I didn’t need to watch to know the lineup would be heavy on the pandering and light on policy. Biden and Harris are going to.fix everything, but we voters don’t need to worry about how and when. Just vote for.them and all will be fixed. Biden will take down the coronavirus, reverse climate change, heal all social ills, including systemic racism, injustice, gender discrimination, immigration, economic inequality, ect, and stimulate the economy, while protecting us from enemies both foreign and domestic.

          1. Biden has one chance to impress the voters that he wants to court.

    2. “Total withdraw from Afghanistan” ?

      The defense secretary’s most recently announced ‘soft goal’ was to have 5,000 American soldiers on duty in Afghanistan by year-end. The current number is likely closer to 10,000 than 5,000.

      Other than that, though, great comment!

      1. You are apparently completely ignorant of the terms of the deal Trump signed with the Taliban, the Trump administration’s efforts to push Kabul to release all their prisoners, etc. The plan calls for us to withdraw all US troops from Afghanistan by the end of April, and if President Trump is reelected, there isn’t any good reason to doubt that this is what we will do.

        In fact, President Trump, at one point, was looking to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan ahead of schedule.

        “President Trump has repeatedly voiced a desire to leave Afghanistan sooner than the timeline laid out in the Feb. 29 peace agreement. He may want to campaign on bringing home every soldier.”


        What else don’t you know about?

        1. What else don’t you know about?

          LOL. Pandora’s box.

        2. You keep relying on Trump’s assurances.

          I will continue to watch you struggle to comprehend the reality-based world.

    3. I suppose politics is about priorities. His willingness to throw families in cages with no due process and send federal goons to attack protesters he doesn’t like is balanced by his willingness to strip people of healthcare and jobs.

      I like you Ken. You’re the banality of evil among a bunch of crazy evil.

      1. Incorrect. Obama separated the kids from the families before throwing them in cages. Other than that, accurate post.

  4. And all the signs point to many Americans casting their votes not for the candidate they like, but rather against the candidate they dislike.

    This is why Trump should win. He has a hardcore, devoted, crawl-over-broken-glass base who can’t wait to vote FOR him. Biden has a bunch of nose-holders whose only motivation is they don’t like Trump.

    1. Biden has one chance to impress voters, to actually gain supporters.

      One chance.

      1. Why do you think he’s in hiding? His best chance to prove he should lead the most powerful nation in the history of the world is to hide and keep his mouth shut as much as possible.

        This is the reality we live in.

      2. Expound please.

        1. The convention is supposed to be the kickoff the the presidential campaign season.

          an impressive opening speech is critical.

          Even Michael Dukakis had one.

          Biden needs to impress to create the momentum he needs when he visits Pennsylvania for a campaign stop the day after the conventions ended.

      3. Just saw a Biden commercial, or part of it

        “Nationwide mask mandates”

        Maybe that’ll do the trick

        1. yeah, the ad didn’t explain why that was Constitutional (i.e. legal) for the President to mandate

        2. California has had mask mandates for months. And the most confirmed cases now.

          1. Makes sense.

            Unconstitutional masks mandates, ballooning deficit state budgets, and higher infection rates than other states.

          2. Our county had also had the mask mandates for months and the cases have been rising.

            Before the mask mandate people were aware of physical distancing in stores. Now that they wear masks there is much less distancing. Could masks actually be the cause of the increase in cases?

            1. Yes. People are constantly touching their faces because of them with dirty hands that are hard to wash frequently when outside because so many places won’t let you use the bathroom nowadays. Then there are the ppl wearing germ infested disposable masks for days on end just to comply with the mandate. It’s a lot of window dressing and virtue signaling. We’ve had to wear masks inside in PA since about April but the last phase of reopening in Philly has been pushed back 3x to at least Sept 1.

    2. “He has a hardcore, devoted, crawl-over-broken-glass base who can’t wait to vote FOR him.”

      Citation, please. Most of the polls (and all of my personal experience) suggest that there are very, very few people in that group. (And Biden also has a very small group of fanatics.) Trump does, however, have rather a lot of nose-holders who think the Ds are worse.

      1. Maybe it’s changed in three plus years, but nose holders don’t wait in line for six hours and more to get a chance to hear a politician speak. Solid voters will. He was filling arenas, then. Might be able to now, if COVID weren’t around.

        I don’t know what you do about polling these days. As far as I can tell, pollsters calling someone is an intelligence test for the called. Given the willingness of leftists to hammer people in the workplace for wrongthink, why would anyone trust that their responses to a pollster’s questions would be confidential?

        1. I can’t imagine what would make anyone willing to wait in line for hours to attend a political rally.

            1. Fair point. I suspect that is a lot of the appeal of Trump rallys.

              1. Much the same way these people’s grandparents enjoyed a good public lynching.

                1. Yes! It’s exactly like that!

                  Everything is so terrible and unfair,

        2. OTOH, as someone who dislikes both Republicans and Democrats, I feel the need to honestly engage with pollsters – i can’t complain my views aren’t represented if I won’t represent them myself.

          (Although pollsters working for a campaign ask some funny questions which make it pretty obvious which campaign they work for. And the one i got was for a state senate campaign).

      2. Unfortunately, you have revealed your true agenda with that last sentence of yours.

      3. Here in Florida, we have: trump signs in yards, trump flags on trucks, trump merchandise stands every weekend, and freaking trump boat parades.
        Trump’s base is plenty big

        1. I’ve seen Trump signs here or there, but no Biden signs anywhere, not even in California.

          1. I saw a tiny Biden bumper sticker today.

            It was 2×2 inches. Like they were not sure if they supported Biden.

          2. I’ve seen a few Biden signs, but I still see more Bernie stuff. And definitely more Trump stuff. I don’t think that’s a good gauge of how the votes will go, though. But I still think Trump will probably win.

            1. Way more Bernie bumper stickers than Biden here.

          3. To be fair, Biden has no more been making a play for California than Trump is making a play for Alabama.

            I live in a precinct and a county where the last Republican nominee to win a majority (let alone a plurality) of votes was Ronald Reagan in 1984.

            Meanwhile, Stephen King has many neighbors who have Trump signs.

            But maybe he happens to live in a precinct where Trump was competitive, if not outright dominating, in 2016.


        2. Nardz, that is something I have been struck by. Even here, in the fucking People’s Republic of NJ, there are Trump lawn signs. I can’t find Biden lawn signs. Hell, I look for them, just for fun to see if they actually exist.

          I just do not see Team D voters getting excited to pull the lever for Slow Joe and Heels Up Harris.

          The enthusiasm gap is palpable, and obvious.

        3. The same is true here in SE Michigan. I’ve seen the occasional Biden sticker and literally one Biden sign. Trump signs and flags can be seen everywhere. If it’s not a Trump sign, then there are signs for the Republican candidate for Senate, John James. Go to any of the nearby lakes and more than one boat can be seen flying Trump flags.

          I had to laugh when recently I stood in line at a local supermarket behind an older couple with “Trump 2020” masks. Their attitude was that if they were being forced to wear them they would at least fly their colors.

          Our recently concluded cultural event, the Woodward Dream Cruise (basically classic cars driving up and down Woodward Ave from Pontiac to Detroit with people sitting in lawn chairs along the route watching), produced several mini-Trump rallies. I heard rumors of a few BLM counter-protests but nothing noteworthy.

          This is how it was in 2016. Trump supporters were ubiquitous. Hillary supporters not evident at least based upon yard signs and bumper stickers.

          I have no idea what it means. The “polls” suggest that it’s a massive love-fest for Gretchen Whitmer. Everyone I speak with would like to give her the Mussolini Treatment.

      4. If Biden has any fanatics (I’m not aware of any) the group is significantly smaller than Trump’s cult of personality

        Also, be sure you aren’t confusing fanatical anti-Trumpers for being fanatically pro-Biden

        1. Trump’s reelection victory will come from Americans that know that Trump did or tried his damnedest to fulfill his campaign promises.

          1. Paddypower will eagerly cover your cash bets on that prophecy.

  5. a pox on both their houses.

  6. HERE► Brilliant article. I had wondered how future generations would view the mind boggling hysteria that is currently gripping the whole world, especially Europe and the USA. We look back at past centurhysteria can be – like a stampede. Thought the writer was a historian, his analysis is so sharpies and wonder how they could have been so stupid. I guess it shows how powerful mass . He has seen through the Emperor’s new clothes!Click here.

  7. Trump is a corrupt scumbag while Biden is just a brain addled old fuck. There is more to dislike in the former.

    The Senate just rubbed Trump’s nose in Putin’s shit despite his lies.

  8. One of Trumpism’s enduring scars will be the social fissures it’s widened by waging war on objective reality and public faith in bedrock institutions. It’s also fostered a cult of personality around Donald Trump, allowing him to posture as the final arbiter of truth and guardian of the downtrodden. But division, chaos and disrepair — and the corruption of the American experiment — are the long-term consequences.

    So it’s encouraging when a bipartisan group of federal legislators reminds us that facts matter.

    A 966-page Senate report published Tuesday leaves no doubt that an extensive network of Russian operatives with intelligence ties worked with Trump’s operatives to torpedo Hillary Clinton’s campaign four years ago. Russian President Vladimir Putin oversaw the effort, including a successful hack of Democratic Party computer systems. Why? To smear Clinton and hobble her administration if she won, and to gain leverage with Trump if he won.

    Bloomberg News

    Trump cultists will believe his lies though.

    1. Go surf child porn you pathetic weirdo

      1. Eat shit, you QAnon Trump cultist.

        The GOP controlled Senate:

        A 966-page Senate report published Tuesday leaves no doubt that an extensive network of Russian operatives with intelligence ties worked with Trump’s operatives to torpedo Hillary Clinton’s campaign four years ago.

        proves you are just another Trump cultist liar.

        1. Jack Marshall is no Trump cultist.


          I have been reluctant to write about the obvious (it seems to me) conclusions recent declassified documents point to regarding Obama’s overt and sinister efforts to undermine the Trump administration and seed the beginnings of the collusion narrative before the President had even been sworn in. The fact is, I have neither the time nor the skill to follow all those breadcrumbs and be a reliable analyst—at least not reliable enough. I have been waiting for a thorough investigation to be launched by a news organization, like the Post did on Watergate, or the Indianapolis Star did to expose the Larry Nasser/ Michigan State/U.S. Women’s Gymnastics scandal. Those things win Pulitzer prizes and enhance reputations, don’t they? Why hasn’t there been a thorough, published indictment of Obama’s perfidy? Wouldn’t there be, if the evidence is what it seems to be? Maybe I’m wrong.

          It is suspicious, I have to say, how the major mainstream media outlets have been almost silent on the clear indications that Obama and Biden met with various Justice Department and FBI personnel and discussed how to “get” Michael Flynn. For one thing, the notes taken by Peter Strzok tell us that Joe Biden is lying. Don’t they care? Isn’t that important? Doesn’t democracy die in darkness? Oh, the Daily Caller and the Federalist and other “conservative” news organizations have written about it, but you know, they’re conservative. It’s all lies The claims are being fabricated by “Trumpers.”

          1. So FISA warrants were signed by judges so the FBI could tap lines where we now know Trump was conspiring with Russia to influence the US election?

            Good. The judge was correct.

            1. So altering a FISA court filing does not matter?

    2. One of Trumpism’s enduring scars legacies will be the social fissures it’s widened by waging war on objective reality and public faith in bedrock institutions.

      FTFY – Trump is not the cause of this shit, he’s a result of people realizing that they’ve been lied to and manipulated for years by our institutions. What is this “objective reality”? The shit fed to you by the whores in the MSM who are only interested in stirring up shock and outrage because that’s what sells papers? What are these “bedrock institutions”? Clusters of Harvard- and Yale-trained elitists who think they know better than you how you should live your life and how the world should be ordered?

      Trump is a fucking clown, a moron, a conman, a gross pig of a human being – yet he’s done at least just as good a job of running this country as the elitists who know the right people, attend the right cocktail parties, hold the right opinions and the right credentials from the right institutions. Which is why they hate him so bad, he’s exposed the fact that any fucking moron that comes down the pike can do just as good a job as they can.

      1. I get what you’re saying but I think you undervalue the role of the institutions and department’s under the Executive. We could elect a chicken to POTUS and the country would run pretty much the same for a long time as long as it was trained to sign its name.

        Trump’s problem is not as the Chief Executive, but rather the other hats the president wears like Head of State, or First Citizen. Most serious people in this country and around the world don’t respect him, and when he speaks for the United States that’s a problem for all of us.

        1. The lessons people should be learning here are that the chief executive isn’t really a terribly hard or important job and that we don’t need a First Citizen, or national leader. But I doubt many people will come to those conclusions, sadly.
          For the last several elections I’ve been proposing that we should just try 4 years without a president and see how that goes. I’m dead serious about it at this point. Of course it’s practically and constitutionally impossible.

          1. Considering we’ve allowed the president to become our version of a king, I agree. Most Americans however seem happy to have a king as long as they are part of the same party.

            1. From the book of Samuel 7century BCE.

              And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
              And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
              And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.
              And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.
              And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.
              And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.
              And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.
              He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.

              I wish it were only a tenth.

          2. I’d rather try 4 years without a civil service.

            1. Yeah, but people don’t get to vote on the civil service.

              I want a none of the above option. If it gets the most votes, the office goes unfilled for the term.

              1. Yeah, but people don’t get to vote on the civil service.

                That’s my point.

              2. Turn it all over to the career bureaucrats!

                1. Just like every president does.

                  I’m not arguing for that, I hope that’s clear. But congress has to act to get rid of the bureaucrats. My main point is that people need to learn that we don’t need an elected king, or a daddy for the nation that we can all be proud of. Outside of war we don’t need a national leader. We don’t need a huge federal bureaucracy either, but you have to start by convincing people that the government isn’t the country and “leadership” is what gets us into this mess in the first place.

            2. So much this. The bureaucracy is the biggest threat to individual freedom by far, until it gets reined in it doesn’t matter who is in the white house.

        2. Maybe we should stop making the President wear more hats than Chief Executive? If you want a god-king, get help? Just a thought.

    3. Too be fair, Bloomberg is a Lefty propaganda outlet that spreads lies every day.

      We know the truth and its not what Bloomberg or any MSM outlet is saying.

  9. Voting isn’t going to matter at all this time around, the “election” is going to be such a clusterfuck that they’re going to demand a do-over, just as they intended. It’s why the Democrats had such a shit fit when Trump suggested maybe we should delay the election until we could guarantee a fair election, they’re counting on being able to claim the election wasn’t fair to demand we keep voting until they get the result they want.

    1. El Presidente’s “delay” would make him permanent King just like the “delay” with his tax returns which will never be released despite his promises.

      Of course wingnuts would like that. Putin is their role model.

      1. No, the delay doesn’t change when Trump’s term ends – the delay is going to allow Nancy Pelosi to name an interim president. Probably Steny Hoyer, one of the few people more senile and hence more malleable than Joe Biden.

        1. Pelosi is also up for election, so she doesn’t get the say.
          It goes to the senior most senator whose term isn’t up, which i think (though may be wrong) is Chuck Grassley

      2. It is so funny that you are so stupid you believe this bullshit

        1. This is why I find it so odd that Reason Pravda-like repeats the party line that there’s nothing wrong with a mail-in election, that it’s not that hard and no more susceptible to fraud than in-person voting – that’s the Democrats talking points but the Democrats aren’t so monumentally stupid and gullible as to believe that shit. They know it’s going to be a clusterfuck, they’re counting on it being a clusterfuck. Hundreds of lawsuits over “disenfranchised voters”, “disenfranchised” just because their ballots showed up two months late from the trunk of somebody’s car and none of them have signatures on them but they’re 92% for Joe Biden. Racist disenfranchisement!

          1. Think Bush v. Gore, but repeated for all 50 states. It’ll be a disaster. Intentionally so, as you note.

            1. (Reuters) – Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden said on Wednesday that his party has assembled a group of 600 lawyers and thousands of other people to prepare for possible “chicanery” ahead of November’s election.

              You don’t need lawyers to spot chicanery, you need lawyers to file lawsuits. Bush v Gorex50 is exactly right.

            2. It’s definitely going there in any state with a close vote. This thing may not be decided by the end of the year.

          2. You didn’t have the first goddamn problem with mail voting until Trump told you to.

    2. To be precise Trump didn’t explicitly demand postponing the election. His sentence had three questions marks at the end, and it was mainly a reaction to the covid farce i.e. the hypocrisy that people can go to protests, riots, shopping and the like… yet they (for some arcane reason) cannot possibly go to place their votes on a Tuesday afternoon. (He also blatantly confirmed this message today.)

      It’s also funny that delaying the election is absolutely unacceptable for some people (again, for some arcane reasons), yet somehow fundamentally changing the system less than two months prior to the election is a-okay.

      1. In NY-12, the election was delayed for all practical purposes.

      2. One is perfectly legal and the other is an unconstitutional power grab. But libertarians can’t be expected to know the difference.

  10. >>when unfit candidates win office.

    so every time? i freely admit i love T but i have for +30 years and believe he’s now playing an important role as the anti-politician.

    >>asked to pick between candidates that just aren’t up to the job.

    iyho. i think T has been great.

    1. Wouldn’t it have been better for the “anti-politician” experiment if the guy wasn’t the worst president of all time?

      1. sure … if that’s what you think of him … i’m enjoying the show i’ve been waiting a long time to watch the Establishment panic

  11. “It was a fitting moment of desperation”

    Desperation? In a world in which fringe candidates struggle to beat a rounding error, and celebrate when they hit two percent or perhaps one percent?

    The disaffected, anti-social, and irrelevant would benefit from self-awareness (among plenty of other things).

    1. Still can’t find a job can you?

      1. I am easing into retirement. I have more work than I would prefer.

        Other than that, though . . . great comment, clinger!

  12. They all suck.

  13. i know i dislike them both! probably biden a bit more because he has been a lifer with his snout in the trough. trump has lots of shortcomings and i would not accept an invite to visit with hi, but when a guy like biden starts issuing advice on how to do ANYTHING ALL I CAN THINK IS “GET A JOB”. i think the same thing about kamala…who hasn’t been off a govt payroll in her entire life.

    the two of them have NO IDEA how hard it is to make and keep a buck. trump may be a boorish self impressed jackass but at least he’s signed the fronts of check more than the backs

  14. RealClearPolitics’ conservative-friendly compilation places Biden ahead by 8 — avoiding a double-digit lead for Biden solely with two Republican polls (Rasmussen, Hill) that have Biden leading by 6.

    In general, the better the track record of the pollster, the better the figures for Biden.

    I am content.

    1. As content as you were with whats-her-name’s total control of the polls in the dark history of BC? (before covid)

    2. lol Mr. Smarter N. Better likes polls.

    3. Well, at least you can be content till November. After that, you and Nate Silver and likeminded individuals (sorry, I mean groupthinkers) will be very very sad once again…

      1. I may get more personally involved in shoving the progress down the throats of bigoted, whining, right-wing clingers next year.

        Open wider, guys. It will make it easier on you. But you will swallow the progress. You will toe the line. You will comply.

        As usual.

        1. “You will. You will. You will…..”

          Haha. Any day now, old man. Just keep the faith!

        2. “personally involved in shoving the progress down the throats”

          Going to get your hands dirty? Finally. I’ll be waiting.

        3. Damn, you’re a little heavy-handed with the implication of forced sodomy there, “Rev”. You on a registry somewhere?

    4. Rasmussen isn’t Republican, just more accurate

      1. Half of the polls in the RCP currently have a stronger +D modification than even in 2016 which is ridiculous. Hillary had a much bigger cult following than Biden does.

        1. The biggest motivator is hatred of Trump because he is ruining the country either on purpose or through mental illness and stupidity.

          1. The one thing Boss Trump is getting right is ruining Communist China. Tony should go there and preach at the wet market dog meat stand.

            1. China has never been more powerful relative to the United States.

              1. The Communist part of it isn’t. Maybe we’ll see a democratic China in my lifetime.

                1. Maybe we’ll see more of a command economy here. As long as it’s in service of removing undesirables and making sure to do no good for anyone, libertarians shouldn’t object.

                  1. As long as you’re removed, then I guess ok. Remember, enemies in the first wave; true believers in the second.

    5. No ‘open wider clingers?” Must be a sock.

      I don’t care how “deplorable” Trump or any other candidate is; I will vote for the asshole because I believe [given the characteristics of the 200 judicial appointments over the past 4 years] that is the best chance we have to continue as a Constitutional Republic. From everything I’ve seen and heard from the Blue side they represent the inverse of this, in the name of equality [of outcome, not opportunity] amidst all of the race, climate, abortion, and gender baiting I can possibly imagine.

      If you do not believe in limited government and just want to see authority misused against everyone you do not like or agree with just say so.

      1. I enjoy hearing about your hate for modern America, you bigoted, half-educated, superstitious, poorly educated, anti-social clinger.

        Watching the losers cry is part of the fun of stomping the clingers in the culture war.

        1. Yup. Prog losers have been crying constantly for four years, and you’re right, it has been fun to watch!

          “…..half educated, superstitious, poorly educated……”

          C’mon rev, you’ve always been repetitive, but you’re really slipping lately. Take a nap, old man.

          1. The old man needs to take a long, long nap. A dirt nap.

  15. And I’ll get on my knees and pray
    We don’t get fooled again

    1. “Here’s the new boss, same as the old boss”

      “He can’t even run his own life, I’ll be damned if he’ll run mine”

      “Come senators, congressmen
      Please heed the call
      Don’t stand in the doorway
      Don’t block up the hall”

      The list goes on and on.

      1. Oingo Boingo’s “Nothing to Fear (but Fear Itself)” is prescient

        1. “But don’t be fooled by the radio, the TV or the magazines,
          They’ll show you photographs of how your life should be,
          But that’s just someone else’s fantasy.”

          1. have Grand Illusion cassette. still have Who ^^^ on cassette and Boingo too.

  16. haven’t voted for a major party candidate I really thought could do a good job since George W. Bush in his first term. and I was wrong on that one (though I could still never have voted for Al Gore – he was clearly unsuited to be president). his leadership surrounding 911 was encouraging, but his subsequent sprawling Afghanistan war, Patriot Act nonsense, establishment of DHS, and attack on Iraq made it clear that I’d erred. since then, I’ve voted in every election, but only for candidates that I could hold my nose and accept attaching my name to. pathetic.

  17. Didn’t vote in 2016, but I am squarely for Trump this time around. I don’t like the continuing irresponsible spending, but there’s too much at stake to risk a Biden/Harris presidency. This socialist BS needs to be put down hard.

    1. Good news because the socialists are all crying into their Che shirts over how moderate and neoliberal the Dem ticket is. Not ideal for you surely but hardly radical, though I presume you actually think Trump’s governing incompetence is a plus.

      1. Just because they’re crying that they didn’t get Sanders doesn’t mean the current Dem ticket isn’t going to tack heavily in that direction. Positions that these supposedly moderate Dem candidates are taking would’ve been political suicide just a few years ago.

  18. Trump and Biden are both old big(ger) government and identity politics Democrats. Trump is an old big(ger) government white identity politics Democrat, like almost all of those from LBJ and back; that Trump lied about being a Republican and with other old disaffected Democrats hostilely took over the GOP and eked out in a few counties in a few key states a slim electoral margin does not change what he is and has always been. That Biden is, only, less nuts and deceptive and holds hands with other identities for his identity coalition does not make this old big(ger) government and identity politics Democrat good or likable.

    1. Trump seems to have the fervent support of the Republican base. Are you saying that they have been suckered into supporting a Democrat? If so, what does that say about them?

      1. I think what it says is that Republicans, really either party, will support a bad candidate because that candidate is their party and not the other party. Sad but true.

  19. Hillary lost by negative 3 million votes, and Biden has like double her polling advantage. This could very well go Trump’s way but only if he cheats or solves Covid by November. I would actually be looking forward to the election shitstorm he is deliberately creating for its potential for forcing reform, if only I thought Democrats wouldn’t fold like cheap dish towels and let him cheat to win out of a desire for civility.

    But watching you guys shit your pants and foment domestic terrorism because a milky moderate Democrat won an election will be fun too.

    1. Haha Tony. Yes, if he ‘cheats’. Lol.

      Trump is going to win and that’s despite all the madness.

      All that’s left to be determined is by what margin.

      1. Could not agree more. And simply no other choice even for us Ancap/Minarchist Austrian School Libertarians… IMHO

    2. You must be mad… “Tony”.

    3. Attention: Reason.com
      I didn’t mean to flag Tony for abuse! Didn’t understand what the flag meant- thought it had an “agree/disagree” option Please forgive me for my error. The only abusive speech is incitement to violence… sorry, Tony. Very sorry. Please forgive me.

      1. Don’t worry too much, that button doesn’t actually do anything. There are no moderators reviewing the flags, as evidenced by all the spam bots who never get banned.

  20. I see a lot of the hostility due to anxiety. Since its inception government was expected to reduce uncertainty. Protect against invaders, provide a calendar to help time planting fields. Today our anxieties are much greater, why I don’t know. People worry about healthcare, what happen if the local plant closes, effects of climate change. People see the other party as stopping what they need to have more certainty. Republicans will take my healthcare, or Democrats will tax all my money. This leads to more anxiety and hostility to the other political party. What is needed is a government that functions again, but the hostility encourages less cooperation and compromise. Our country is in a spiral, maybe the next generation can break it and make government work better.

    1. Today our anxieties are much greater, why I don’t know.

      Did you really just write that?

      1. Nothing new under the Sun… 🙂

      2. Our lives today are much better than 100 years ago and yet we see greater anxiety today. Maybe its a feature of having more free time to worry about things? Its harder to worry when your struggling to survive.

    2. “What is needed is a government that functions again.” Would you maybe cite an example of when the Federal Government “functioned”? Harding and Coolidge Administrations?

      1. A well-functioning government is one you don’t really notice. I wonder, if we move to libertopia, do we let the highways crumble or do we just go ahead and bulldoze them?

      2. I really can not respond to this because it is silly. You live in a first world country, did think that the fairies made that in the night while you slept. Who do you think build the transportation systems that hold the USA together, first the railroads, then the interstate highway system, and the air transportation system. Who did basic research for many of the medications we use today. Who cleaned up the air and the rivers that were polluted in the 1960s. Who funded the basic research that started computers, the internet and the GPS systems. Your so busy thinking the government does nothing that you can not see all it does do for you.

        1. Yeah but the free market could have done it faster.

          —Their actual retort to this

    3. Yes, all this hostility is focused on the wrong people! It makes much more sense to resent your fellow citizens to the point of wanting the bloated, corrupt government to take more of their money to waste, eh mod?

  21. I’m a NH Free Stater Ancap- worked for Rand Paul until he dropped out here in NH before the 2016 Primary- and then immediately went to the Trump camp. Friends up here wanted me to go with Ted Cruz- who’s a super guy IMHO- but was in complete agreement with Walter Block and Lew Rockwell. “Murray loved populism”… IMHO Trump’s managed to accomplish a lot of positive things, considering what he was up against from the starting gate- Biden’s simply unacceptable. One more vote for the cleanest dirty shirt… until 2024? How about Jeff Deist for President?

    1. He was up against the perfectly functioning country Obama left him and the took a giant deliberate shit all over it.

      Isn’t Walter Block the guy who thinks slavery is permissible in a libertarian society and oh right you’re just going to explain why aren’t you.

  22. I didn’t care for Trump in 2016. But watching what was done to him since then and he’s still standing, it’s damn hard not to root for this guy. A real pit bull son of a bitch the country needs.

    Nice try at the false choice though.

    Trump, despite the entire system stacked against him, managed some serious policy successes including criminal and tax reform. The economy was the best I’ve seen in my lifetime and he didn’t plunge the country into war like his predecessors did. He has a reliable anti-war instinct.

    Trump is superior to Biden in every way. If Americans don’t like both it’s because they’re superficially judging Trump.

    And the mere fact Trump sticks it to the media like he does makes me like him more.

    Not my cup of tea but he clearly does want to do right by the country.

    1. I totally agree. Victor Davis Hanson agrees too… well said.

    2. Trump is demonstrably more of a warmonger than Obama. You don’t hear about it on The Ingraham Angle, but it’s true.

      So is the destruction of the United States system of government still worth it?

      1. Please, demonstrate.

  23. This is what American politics has become. The candidates are just a symptom of the broken system they created. The angst, divisions, violence, and disgust we see in our society is because of them. They created it in their lust for power. There is not a hairs difference between them.

    The only candidate running on a platform of smaller less powerful government is libertarian. She deserves our support. Show those bastards that there are some of us who still value liberty and refuse to be conquered serfs of the state.

    1. The only candidate running on a platform of smaller less powerful government is libertarian.

      People run on all sorts of platforms. What Jo would actually deliver in practice is a fast path to socialism.

    2. The only candidate running as a libertarian was more than ready to prostrate herself at the feet of BLM. That’s pretty hard to paper over, or walk back.

      1. She did not. Read what she actually said. She expressed solidarity with “protesters” concerning the issue of police violence. Remember that not all protesters are part of BLM. She scolded BLM for those who would overtake the movement for their own goals. She did say that there were some areas where libertarians could agree and others where they could not. You could say the same about any political party or movement.

        She certainly did not express any agreement with the socialist goals or violence associated with BLM. Her platform and statements are consistently libertarian and opposed to those things.

        Nowhere does she endorse BLM. As libertarians, and anyone should, we support peaceful protest and oppose police or any other violence.

        I will quote from the article again.

        Jorgensen says that the Libertarian Party agrees with the national Black Lives Matter organization on several issues, such as the drug war, no-knock raids, and qualified immunity.

        “But their answer is more government,” she says, and “big government is what got us here to begin with.”

        “I think we should support the protesters, but, at the same time, get rid of the opportunistic people hijacking the movement.” Jorgensen points to the people who have used the protests to loot and commit violence: “They are going around basically inserting themselves into peaceful protest. And I’ve seen many clips of the protesters saying, ‘Stop it. Go away. You’re not helping us. We don’t want you here.'”

        Look there are a lot of folks around here who will look for any excuse to bash libertarians and support who they really want to vote for.

        1. Keep bending over for leftists

  24. All I can think about is that old Simpsons episode where dole and Clinton are revealed to be aliens and they say “what are you going to do, throw your vote away?”

  25. This is the best article that I have read on this website for a long time. Excellent, excellent points. Biden doubled down on stupid picking a far, far left VP. And you know that is right, when the liars on CNN call her moderate.
    I don’t like the Trump at all, but probably will end up voting for him just because the democrats are insane with their P and VP choices. But it will be voting for the least of the evils.
    I despise Trump’s behavior, but he does seem to be ratcheting down the military silliness abroad. Plus, the progress in the Middle East is promising. I wish he would stop the build the wall talk, but maybe I’m hoping for too much.

  26. The 2020 election represents an ongoing demonstration that America’s governing apparatus is trapped in the embrace of the rotting corpses of once-dynamic political organizations. Democratic and Republican Party hearts and minds may have died, but they refuse to loosen their grip on political office—and on voters.

    The US has a winner-take-all voting system. Such systems produce two-party political systems. That’s a simple, mathematical law. It won’t change. It’s a good system for a liberal democracy, like the US used to be: you end up with two interchangeable, moderate parties.

    The only way to get more parties is to turn the US into a European-style parliamentary democracy; you can look at European history to see how well those work out.

    1. Or Israel. It does kinda work out there. The country has done well economically and has managed to defend itself. It is also making progress on the diplomatic front.

      There are trade offs as the system is less stable but that is not altogether a bad thing.

      But Israel is a special case. Much smaller and more cohesive.

  27. Libertarian spoiler votes were growing 80% a year before kleptocracy infiltrators started polluting the platform. Luckily, the Principles part is way closer to the start than the People’s Temple plea for importing terrorists and infected cattle with no inspection. The curve suggests we ought to get between seven and 8 million votes despite looter infiltration and vandalism. We got about that in the down-ballot elections four years ago, and those State LPs are growing fastest.

  28. Go right ahead: vote for Biden…and if there is a Senate race in your state, vote Democrat…and vote Democrat for the House seat. Then when the Democrats have the White House and all of Congress, get ready for your taxes to skyrocket to pay for single-payer health care, reparations, the Green New Deal, free college. Get ready for a ramped-up assault on free enterprise. Get ready for a continuing, ramped-up assault on Western culture the Left has been conducting for decades. Get ready for the further deterioration of race relations. Get ready for an increased influx of illegal aliens who will be made citizens ASAP so they can register Democrat. Get ready for the continuing decay of the standards of civilized behavior. Go right ahead, be a complete ignorant dumbfuck and vote Democrat.

    1. “Get ready for the continuing decay of the standards of civilized behavior.“

      So you think Trump is the upholder of civilized behavior.

      “Civilized“ is doing a lot of work in this post.

      1. Trolling is not civilized behavior, so why do you expect the responses to be civilized?

        1. (By civilized he means white.)

  29. Trump 2020!

  30. Looks like Putin poisoned another political rival.

    1. Not our business.

      Also, that’s a lot less murderous than Biden’s Chinese communist party friends and supporters.

  31. Two party politics has already distorted our democratic republic, almost as severely as one party systems. I would love to hear ideas on how to eliminate or diminish party power.

    Meanwhile, would settle for one of two election upgrades:
    1. Require candidates to get a majority of registered or eligible voters, instead of votes cast.
    2. Require every ballot to carry a “None of the above” choice.

    1. Yes, “None of the above” would be up double digits in the polls.

      But, the democrats had their chance. They had the chance to put a candidate up that was a leader, and dementia free and a VP candidate up that wasn’t the most liberal of all Senators. But they didn’t do it.

      Beating the two party system is going to require some strong leadership and it probably will need to come from the top down. This would have been a great election to do it in. But a leader that can knock off a D and R for President, then pick off Congress members in the middle to change parties to a new one. I just don’t think it can be a ground up change.

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  33. We need “None of the Above” to be a genuine choice. If “None of the Above” “wins”, then the Parties should have to pick new candidates that did not run. Same thing should have happened last time. The new election should be just 30 days later.

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  36. J.D. is right that government has too much power, but I believe his premise that voters of both parties are equally motivated by hatred is incorrect. As evidence, consider Dr. Jonathan Haidt’s research that shows liberals have an understanding deficit when it comes to conservatives; a deficit conservatives (and libertarians) don’t have. See the article he wrote in Reason “Born This Way?”.

    The article explains how their lack of understanding manifests in errors in their beliefs that “Republicans see no positive value in care and fairness” and gives a liberal theater critic’s thoughts who states about Republicans their “chosen work” is “to destroy the human race and the planet, … Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated …” That’s a lot of hate from misunderstanding conservatives.

    What JD also missed, is that we’ve never see a press, or political party, so hostile to the president. It’s unprecedented at least in the last 60 years. With Reason included to some extent, sad to say. Especially with Trump taking so many libertarian policy positions and implementing them via EO (thanks to Congress delegating that). With hate like the NYT’s 1619 project and the outrageous resistance (they did claim Trump was a Russian spy), it’s amazing Trump has numbers as good as they are.

    1. The other thing JD could have done, is suggest the use of Instant Runoff Voting, or Approval Voting. These systems allow many candidates for an office and only require one trip to the polls to elect a winner by majority (not plurality). And they can still be used within the confines of the Constitution. These voting systems remove the power of the party insiders to pick the disliked candidates voters end up with, and don’t even require party primaries in which even fewer voters invest their time. It’s well known in political science circles the party insiders pick the candidate. These voting systems take away that power.

      Libertarians, and JD, should take the opportunity the disliked candidates crisis presents, to replace the voting system that keeps the two party system in place and gives us candidates like Hillary, Joe and if you don’t like him, Trump.

  37. As long as you’re removed, then I guess ok. Remember, enemies in the first wave; true believers in the second.

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