Supreme Court Declares Another Abortion Law Unconstitutional

Plus: More states pause reopening, Oregon measure to legalize psilocybin moves forward, and more...

The U.S. Supreme Court has handed another blow to backhanded attempts at abolishing abortion by making clinics comply with ridiculous and unnecessary regulations.

In a 5-4 decision released Monday, the court struck down a Louisiana law (Act 620) saying doctors who perform abortions must have "active admitting privileges at a hospital . . . located not further than thirty miles from the location at which the abortion is performed or induced." If enforced, it would have left Louisiana with just one abortion clinic statewide.

In the consolidated cases before SCOTUS, "five abortion clinics and four abortion providers challenged Act 620 before it was to take effect, alleging that it was unconstitutional because (among other things) it imposed an undue burden on the right of their patients to obtain an abortion," states the Court's summary of the case.

Previously, a U.S. District Court had declared the admitting-privileges law unconstitutional, "finding, among other things, that the law offers no significant health benefit; that conditions on admitting privileges common to hospitals throughout the State have made and will continue to make it impossible for abortion providers to obtain conforming privileges for reasons that have nothing to do with the State's asserted interests in promoting women's health and safety; and that this inability places a substantial obstacle in the path of women seeking an abortion," states the summary.

But the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit reversed the district court's ruling. The Supreme Court has now reversed the 5th Circuit's decision.

Voting to strike down the law were Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Elena Kagan, and Sonia Sotomayor, with Justices Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and Clarence Thomas dissenting.

Justice Breyer notes in the majority's opinion that the Louisiana law "is almost word-for-word identical to Texas' admitting-privileges law," which SCOTUS struck down in 2016.

(Read the full decision and concurring and dissenting opinions here, and more on the 2016 Texas case here.)

"There was one notable difference between the two abortion rulings," notes Reason's Damon Root. "This time around, Chief Justice Roberts sided with the Court's Democratic appointees and voted to strike down the state regulation. What changed?"

In his concurring opinion, Roberts answers that question:

I joined the dissent in Whole Woman's Health and continue to believe that the case was wrongly decided. The question today however is not whether Whole Woman's Health was right or wrong, but whether to adhere to it in deciding the present case. […] Stare decisis requires us, absent special circumstances, to treat like cases alike. The Louisiana law imposes a burden on access to abortion just as severe as that imposed by the Texas law, for the same reasons. Therefore Louisiana's law cannot stand under our precedents.

The Supreme Court also ruled yesterday that the structure of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is unconstitutional, declined to stop federal executions from moving forward, and upheld a law saying foreign nonprofits that receive U.S. funding must pledge to oppose prostitution. (See The Volokh Conspiracy for more on these decisions.)

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FREE MINDS

Oregon measure to legalize psilocybin moves forward. An Oregon measure to legalize hallucinogenic mushrooms for psychiatric use has enough signatures to get on the ballot in November, its backers said yesterday. "Chief petitioners of Oregon Psilocybin Therapy Initiative, or Initiative Petition #34, Sheri and Tom Eckert, said Monday during a Zoom press conference that the campaign has gathered 164,782 signatures," reports The Oregonian. "The campaign believes they will know for sure by mid-July." The cities of Denver, Colorado, and Oakland, California, have recently decriminalized psilocybin, but "Oregon would be the first state to legalize the substance, which is currently a Schedule I drug," the paper notes.

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FREE MARKETS

More states start reversing reopening. New Jersey and Arizona join Florida, Texas, and California in calling a halt on letting businesses start operating again after the COVID-19 lockdowns. From New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy:

UPDATE: INDOOR DINING WILL NO LONGER RESUME ON THURSDAY.

We had planned to loosen restrictions this week. However, after #COVID19 spikes in other states driven by, in part, the return of indoor dining, we have decided to postpone indoor dining indefinitely.

— Governor Phil Murphy (@GovMurphy) June 29, 2020

Meanwhile, Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey said Monday that his state would hit pause on phasing in more reopening plans, ban organized gatherings of more than 50 people, and close gyms, bars, and a range of other businesses that had briefly been open.

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QUICK HITS

• Scientists aren't sure what to make of a mutation in the new coronavirus that now accounts for the majority of cases. "The mutation doesn't appear to make people sicker, but a growing number of scientists worry that it has made the virus more contagious," reports The Washington Post.

• Another person has been killed, and a 14-year-old boy wounded, in Seattle's Capitol Hill Occupatied Protest (CHOP) zone. This is the third fatal shooting in CHOP, and it comes about a week after Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan said the city would disband it.

• Reddit is canceling more than 2,000 subject-specific communities (a.k.a. subreddits)—including one about President Donald Trump and one about the popular lefty podcast Chapo Trap House—for allegedly violating the site's content policies.

• The video streaming service Twitch has temporarily suspended the president's account. "In line with our policies, President Trump's channel has been issued a temporary suspension from Twitch for comments made on stream, and the offending content has been removed," spokesperson Brielle Villablanca said.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Scientists aren't sure what to make of a mutation in the new coronavirus that now accounts for the majority of cases.

Foreign meddling in our pandemic.

[Don't look at me!]

Cheap Chinese junk falling apart like always.

[rbhbak]

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[Tom Bombadil]

"Scientists aren't sure what to make of a mutation in the new coronavirus that now accounts for the majority of cases. "The mutation doesn't appear to make people sicker, but a growing number of scientists worry that it has made the virus more contagious," reports The Washington Post."

Hint: it's a mutation. HInt #2: Scientists don't know what to make of version 1.0 either.

[Earth Skeptic]

What about the mutations at the Post? It seems to make people sicker AND be more contagious.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

"Another person has been killed, and a 14-year-old boy wounded, in Seattle's Capitol Hill Occupatied Protest (CHOP) zone. This is the third fatal shooting in CHOP, and it comes about a week after Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan said the city would disband it."

So many much peaceful summer of love protestors.

The travesty and tragedy? This could have been avoided. Durkan and the Governor DO in my view have the blood of that boy on their hands because they're a couple of morally and intellectually bankrupted naif retards. And voters are no better to keep the Northwest in the hands of such idiots.

Protests that have struggle sessions, destruction of property, murder and mayhem aren't necessarily protests. They may have been for a period and were co-opted but the bottom line is the premise of those protests invited and attracted nihilists and degenerates.

I'm a little angry today because we're sliding more and more into an abyss of irrationalism. I read the clowns in the GOP want to mandate mask wearing and my sister - normally rational - was wearing a mask suddenly for 'fear of getting Corona'. We have c. 70 cases per day here. As the news gets better the more irrational people become.

It's FRIGHTENING.

A stupid, useless, medical mask that will NOT stop it.

I lay this all at the feet of media and dumbs public health officials for ruining the psyche of people.

2020 is the year reason and rational thought went dormant. Close this sucker up.

[Rufus The Monocled]

dumbass

[Earth Skeptic]

Don't blame your sister. She and others are just playing the "grownup" version of little princess tea party, where fabricated arbitrary rules are the central theme, and playing along is mandatory.

[JesseAz]

Shootings in NYC are up 300%. A trend on most of the blue led states.

[Longtobefree]

Fake news; NYC has common sense gun control which eliminates violence.

[I, Woodchipper]

the masks aren't supposed to protect the wearer. They are intended to prevent spreading FROM the wearer. Mandates are indeed authoritarian and stupid but.. it is also common courtesy to wear a mask to show others you are not spreading willy nilly and help them feel more comfortable about serving you your coffee or what have you.

Now, if the cops pull over definitely take off the mask. For a number of reason.

[Rufus The Monocled]

I'm not spitting in people's faces. I keep SD. Wearing a mask is not common courtesy to me.

If that be the case, then wear one all year round.

[I, Woodchipper]

Wearing a mask is not common courtesy to me.
"common courtesy" is a phrase that means you are behaving in ways that OTHERS find to be courteous.

Like I said, wearing a mask in public helps others feel more comfortable when serving you in their shit retail job slinging coffee or whatever to assholes all day. I seriously don't understand why there is such a vehement reaction to the notion of *voluntarily* putting a mask on in public at this time.

Also, it foils ubiquitous surveillance running face recognition on you and no one will look at you funny for doing so. win win!

[BYODB]

You keep using that word voluntary. It does not mean what you think it means.

Note the mandatory orders to wear masks. Yeah, people ignore them anytime they think they can get away with it but it doesn't mean the order doesn't explicitly make it mandatory.

'Voluntary' implies one isn't forced to do this or that, and yet you must wear a mask by government decree in certain realms. That might make sense in, say, medicine but does it also make sense in every other aspect of your life? If you say yes, one might need to answer for the previous decades or centuries when masks were not mandatory for health reasons.

I note disease has existed longer than humanity, so it's an odd take to be sure. Especially when it's mostly symbolic, since no one with any knowledge thinks a single-ply bandanna is going to block pathogens.

I suppose wearing a Burka is also just common courtesy, if this is how we want to define it.

[Nardz]

Ah, "for the children" justification.
The – virus – isn’t- special.
If you’re sick, wear the mask (or stay in).
If you don’t have any symptoms, wearing a mask is just social signaling.
That’s all there is to it. Treat it as what it is – a regular flu.
One which might actually be less severe than most, since all indications are that deaths have been overcounted and infections undercounted (though I’m skeptical as to the accuracy of testing, so I wouldn’t assume infection numbers, not necessarily cases, far off where they should be).
I do not think the mask is necessary.
I further think it’s actually harmful. It reinforces the irrational hysteria about this virus, and demonstrates compliance with authority; this not only is used to justify Top Men denying civil rights to pursue the nebulous collective “good”, and it indeed encourages such behavior.
The ratchet turns.
Precedent has now been set that government can, and will, exercise complete control of your movement and work.
Wearing the mask, knowing what we do about covid19, supports the exercise of that authority.
The infection rate won’t be slowed by masks – it is not an alternative to lockdown.
Many places already have mandatory testing – the government will at some point make that mandatory in many or most professions. And they’ll have a record…
And what’s to stop them from forces/required vaccinations? Your body, “society’s” choice.
What a tool for cronyism!
“Americans are citizens with inalienable rights… unless public health experts and the masses dictate otherwise.”

[The White Knight]

If you don’t have any symptoms, wearing a mask is just social signaling.

The science isn't settled on how much a completely asymptomatic person not wearing a mask spreads the virus. It's likely you are correct, but don't act like you know more than you know -- you're mixing your politics into the science.

[Nardz]

No, I'm using logic to come to the likely conclusion.
Try to keep up

[JesseAz]

Someday ENB will take an intro biology course and learn that viruses always mutate. One of the reasons this panic is so asinine. Our bodies evolved our immune response due to this.

We now no longer believe one cautionary biology apparently.

[Earth Skeptic]

Duh. Its Science not science.

[Rufus The Monocled]

I can but look on in horror at how we've abandoned our common sense.

And this 'follow the science' thing actually means they're following ORDERS.

[The White Knight]

I missed the part of the article where ENB claimed that virii don't mutate. Could you point it out?

[JohannesDinkle]

Viruses are sort of failed bacteria - just a mess of RNA and some proteins. They use a host cell's resources to make copies if themselves, and often the copies are not exact - hence mutation. If the virus is either not easily communicated between hosts or if it kills the host, then that mutation fails to reproduce enough to become common enough to spread. Even making the host really sick will disable the rapid spread, leading to that mutation dying out.
That is why viruses become more communicable and less deadly. It is not some sort of 'plan' or even surprising. It happens every time.

[The White Knight]

I knew all that, but thank you.

My question for JesseAz is where ENB said anything that indicates she thinks virii don't mutate.

Her actual words were: "Scientists aren't sure what to make of a mutation in the new coronavirus that now accounts for the majority of cases."

One interpretation of those words would be that scientists are baffled to see a virus mutating. Even if you interpret the sentence that way, it would be the scientists that are baffled, not ENB.

Another interpretation of the entire paragraph she wrote would be that scientists understand that virii mutate, but that they are uncertain about why the new mutation seems to spread more easily. Again, that would be a statement about the scientists' understanding, not ENB's.

In other words, JesseAz just seems out to find something to bitch about every morning when he reads ENB's roundup. If there isn't anything to pick on, he just spins what she wrote in his own head.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Reddit is canceling more than 2,000 subject-specific communities (a.k.a. subreddits)—including one about President Donald Trump and one about the popular lefty podcast Chapo Trap House—for allegedly violating the site's content policies.

When the Cultural Revolution hits Reddit.

[Juice]

They ban all kinds of random shit, usually meme subs, just because. Most of those meme subs are basically a few dozen teen and 20 something edgelords having fun. They make edgy memes, admins tut tut. This only fuels the fire so they make edgier memes, admins rage, rinse repeat.

Did you see that Reddit changed their terms of service? Now, it's explicit that if you're racist toward whites, that's ok.
https://i.redd.it/3yw8vugz2w751.png

[SilentSkies]

Tim Pool pointed out that if you're sexist towards women that's also ok since they're in the majority in the United States (they are in the minority in the world, but then again so are whites, so this interpretation makes the most sense).

[Longtobefree]

According to the SC, it is no longer possible to be sexist, because all sexes, real and imagined, are the same.

[John]

Isn't Reddit a public accommodation? Someone needs to bring a CRA suit against them over that policy.

[damikesc]

Super ironic since The Donald has been inactive for about four months since they all left for their own site.

But, muh private platforms and all...

[Fist of Etiquette]

The video streaming service Twitch has temporarily suspended the president's account.

Literally tens of actual voters will no longer see the campaign's messages.

[Juice]

Yeah, this seems more like PR/advertising for Twitch than anything.

[Mother's lament]

It's so the wife of Twitch's CEO can brag to her pals at the next cocktail party about how they're fighting Orange Hitler.
Pure social signaling by parvenus to the bourgeoisie.

[Ra's al Gore]

“Cancel Yale”? Not likely.
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/06/28/cancel-yale-not-likely/

University President Peter Salovey told the News on June 25 that the University is not considering changing its name. Head of Davenport College John Witt ’94 LAW ’99 GRD ’00 — who led the committee that recommended removing John Calhoun’s name from a residential college in 2016 — also defended the University’s namesake. Unlike the senator who advocated for slavery as “a positive good,” Elihu Yale was “relatively unexceptional in his own time” with respect to slave trade, Witt argued.

[Earth Skeptic]

But any white male who lived during US slavery is guilty.

[Don't look at me!]

But any white male who lived during US slavery is guilty.

FTFY

[Juice]

Especially the slave traders like Yale.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/SheriffTNehls/status/1276646406682484736

A US Postal worker was just caught on video throwing a stack of my campaign mailers in a dumpster. Some patriots nearby heard a noise when she tossed them in & went to investigate. They found a stack of them and called me. No wonder people are skeptical of mail in voting.

[Earth Skeptic]

Well, women are paid less than men, so she only has to deliver 72% of her mail.

[Tom Bombadil]

Not true. That 72% pay is contingent on doing equal work.

[JesseAz]

LOCAL NEWS. There is not voter fraud. The narrative has spoken.

What, the 4 people arrested in New Jersey? Proof that only 4 votes were changed. (Sadly this is how democrats argue based on number of convictions, not votes changed).

Arizona has seen this stuff too.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You guys are hilarious. 10's of millions of votes cast every election by mail, 3 very populous states vote only by mail. But suddenly when it becomes clear from demographics that the more people who vote, the worse republicans will do, you guys suddenly all develop a deeply held belief about how wrong mail in voting is. You really can't be any more transparent.

[Mother's lament]

Your ilk has been caught fiddling with the vote in every election since Tammany Hall.
The fact that you don't want voters to provide ID (like every other country on earth), have paper ballots or a stat holiday on election day is where the real transparency lies.

[The White Knight]

I'm pretty sure De Oppresso Liber has not been personally fiddling with elections. He's just mocking the Trump fans here.

Do you even have any evidence that De Oppresso Liber opposed requirements that voters present ID?

[R Mac]

I have evidence that he’s a Marxist.

[StackOfCoins]

You really are a piece of shit.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You're still doing it, haha. Goddam you are dumb.

[R Mac]

And you’re a Marxist. And now we all see it.

[The White Knight]

It's funny. I used to be kind of impressed that JesseAz and others seem to know so much about what is going on with various issues, such as vote-by-mail fraud.

Then I realized they are just reading zerohedge, Breitbart, and such every morning, and repeating talking points. They don't really seek out (or give any credence) of any news that counters their Trump-is-a-swamp-drainer-and-truth-teller-being-bullied-by-the-MSM-and-the-Deep-State worldview.

[R Mac]

So the New Jersey voter fraud he’s referencing didn’t happen, or you don’t care?

[The White Knight]

I don’t care that much about voter fraud in some New Jersey municipal election, in which the fraudsters got caught. Am I supposed to get worked up about this minor matter?

[R Mac]

Yet you commented in a thread about it. Voter fraud never happens, except when it does. And you don’t care about it, even though you commented in a thread about it. All while white knighting a newly exposed Marxist.

[The White Knight]

Just to be clear, is this a quote, but you don't indicate quotations with quotation marks or formatting? Or are you actually Sheriff Troy Nehls?

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

More bad economic news.

Reason.com's benefactor Charles Koch only earned $489,000,000 yesterday.

This isn't nearly enough to get him out of the $11 billion hole he's in this year. Mr. Koch simply cannot prosper unless he has an unlimited influx of highly skilled doctors and engineers from Mexico.

#OpenTheBordersToHelpCharlesKoch

[Fats of Fury]

Mr. Koch should retire to Mexico where his dollars will go much farther.

[Fist of Etiquette]

New Jersey and Arizona join Florida, Texas, and California in calling a halt on letting businesses start operating again after the COVID-19 lockdowns.

Operating a business is a greedy enterprise lacking the performative virtue required to stave off viral particles.

[Don't look at me!]

Bars have to close unless more than 50% of income is from food.
Because science reasons.

[Tom Bombadil]

Karens would let bars open if the patrons promise to not enjoy themselves.

[Earth Skeptic]

How about if they promise only 50% enjoyment?

[Tom Bombadil]

Karens have a zero tolerance policy.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://www.mrc.org/special-reports/better-red

Twenty years ago this week, the Berlin Wall fell, tearing down the Iron Curtain that had sliced Europe in half since the end of World War II. Barely two years later, the Soviet Union itself disintegrated, ending the Cold War. Yet before, during and after those momentous events two decades ago, many in the liberal media continuously whitewashed the true nature of communism, or suggested free-market capitalism was somehow worse.

The record compiled over 22 years by the Media Research Center demonstrates how some liberal journalists utterly failed to accurately depict communism as one of the worst evils of the 20th century, and often aimed their fire at those who were fighting communism rather than those who were perpetuating it.

[John]

Anyone who was old enough to watch the news in the 1980s and is honest, remembers that the media was absolutely on the other side during the Cold War at least in the 80s. They hated Reagan as much as they hate Trump and loved the old USSR more than even Reason loves the Mullahs in Iran.

[Ra's al Gore]

Luckily we have had decades of GOP leadership concerned about sending our fathers and brothers (and some of us) to die overseas while appointing closet liberal SC judges, which, unlike the long march through the institutions, is the real concern.

[John]

Of all the things that annoyed me about the Never Trump right, the way they wiped their asses with Reagan's legacy is their worst sin. The same people who did the things you describe and spent 28 years pissing away Reagan's legacy turned around and pretended that he was really one of them and all about endless wars screwing the American taxpayer in the name of the global world order.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Yup. I was in jr high/high school in the 80s. The hate of Reagan was obvious and real. I had a couple of liberal teachers make sure they vented passive aggressive snark in class. The imagery painted was Reagan was a clown actor.

[Overt]

It was not nearly as bad as it is today. By Reagan's second term, they hated Reagan, but no one was fool enough to lie about how bad it was in the Soviet Union. That didn't keep them from talking about how evil our allies in South America were. But they were not COMPLETELY delusional.

Rambo III and Rocky IV would not be made today. Hell, even after 9/11 the media tut-tutted if you discussed the evils of islamo fascism.

[Square = Circle]

no one was fool enough to lie about how bad it was in the Soviet Union

May depend on where you were. I went to high school in southern CA 1985-89, and my ex-Yippie social science teachers taught us that the media was lying about how bad things were the in the Soviet Union because the media was dominated by Evil Capitalists. I never though to ask the kids who were a few years behind me how the teachers reacted when the wall came down.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yep. The conventional wisdom by the elites at the beginning of the 1980s was that the Soviet Union was here to stay, and that the US needed to figure out a detente plan that promoted accommodation with them. Reagan's election pretty much blew that plan to hell, and the neocons he hired spent the rest of the decade influencing policy to help bring about its downfall.

Mass media back then was as full of comm-symps as it is now.

[Gray_Jay]

What's also amazing about that is how incredibly quickly the Soviet Union imploded. 1978-79, was likely their peak, as far as military effectiveness and international prestige. And not even 10 years later, it all unraveled.

[Fats of Fury]

I remember Bush I had a mild panic attack over the USSR failing and thinking of ways to prop them up.

[De Oppresso Liber]

And now Republicans love Russia more than America, and Trump more than the constitution. ironic.

[Mother's lament]

Wow, still whipping that dead hoax, huh.
I would be so embarrassed if I were you I would never mention it again, but look at you, doubling down.

[The White Knight]

Think he's also referring to the more recent news about Trump and Russia. That cannot be blown off as a "dead hoax"; the story's still coming out.

[R Mac]

Seems like since you’ve come out of the closet as a Marxist, you’d love the USSR.

[Earth Skeptic]

To be fair, a free market is tough on people who struggle to produce something that other people are willing to pay for. Like journalists.

[Overt]

Nozick's article, "Why Intellectuals Oppose Capitalism" is a great discussion on this. Imagine growing up as the most clever person in the room- regurgitating everything that your teachers say, and being the apple in their eye. Your currency in school was the approval of all the adults who had nothing but praise for how artfully your prose proved its point. And you were rich, rich, rich on that currency.

But then, you start to see all the people around you excel in life. Their math skills or merely their entrepreneurial spirit gets them riches, while your accomplishments at school won't even buy you ramen. Why, the worst thing in the world has to be capitalism where dullards and brain-dead consumers determine the value of a service or product, rather than the deep thinking intellectuals whose labor of thought should be truly valued.

This is why the most important thing you can do is show your kids John Hughes movies. Breakfast Club, Ferris Bueller's day off- everything from National Lampoon- all of these skewered people who were authorities merely for the sake of their position (Teacher, Principal, Father). I have learned that I cannot tell my kids to resist this indoctrination, but I can subtly encourage them to see these people (even me) as pompous assholes who have no more right to Truth than they do.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Aftermath of the Breakfast Club:
--Andrew and Allison fool around for a couple weeks and then awkwardly break up, never to speak to each other again.
--Bender knocks up Claire, she gets an abortion so she can still go to college, and Bender ends up robbing a 7-11 during the summer and goes to jail.
--Brian is still a social outcast, but the other cliques at least leave him alone the rest of the year when Andrew and Claire call off the dogs the week after detention.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2020/06/29/seattle-police-chief-cant-stomach-the-bitter-irony-of-the-latest-murder-at-chop-n586859

But two black, teenage boys were sprayed with bullets, allegedly by the CHOP “security” people as they drove into or near the CHOP zone early Monday morning.

[John]

Black lives matter unless their deaths are politically embarrassing. The police chief is a black woman and the mayor is a white woman. The police chief is shocked by the murder of two black teenagers for the crime of taking a wrong turn. The mayor doesn't give a shit, because she isn't racist like everyone else or something.

[Rufus The Monocled]

She's mentally ill.

I think these people aren't well in the head.

I'm serious.

[John]

You may be right. At the very least she is profoundly stupid.

[JesseAz]

The socialist city council women said to not be quick to judge about why CHOP shot these kids, but it was obviously the fault of capitalism.

[De Oppresso Liber]

They did a drive by on someone at the CHOP, then crashed into the barricade. Others reported that the boys are known gang members, and were arguing with other gang members prior to getting in their car and shooting. It's bad news all the way around. This is the 4th shooting in 2 or 3 weeks, which is way above the Seattle norm for a single neighborhood.

[NashTiger]

I hear tell they loved their mothers and had big plans to start college soon

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

They did a drive by on someone at the CHOP, then crashed into the barricade.

There were no weapons found in the car (because the SPAZs cleaned up all the evidence), and the windows were rolled up when they were shot out.

[R Mac]

Marxist Jeffy likes to make up shit.

[John]

Meanwhile, there were 346 deaths yesterday putting the seven day running average 593 and the three day running average at 381. The seven day and the three day averages are the lowest they have been since March 28th.

Every day the death toll doesn't rise and continues to fall the number of new cases becomes more meaningless.

[Ra's al Gore]

John, you have violated the Panic Act of 2020. Please step outside to be picked up and taken to a reeducation camp.

[Longtobefree]

Can we assume he will be lassoed by six foot or longer ropes, and led away? Somehow without it becoming a chokehold?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

well John some of us would rather not catch the disease at all even if we aren't likely to die from it. It is a "bad cold" that can cause permanent lung damage and perhaps even brain damage

[John]

I would rather not die in a car accident or catch a cold. But, that doesn't mean I am going to stop driving or never go out again. You are in danger of catching a sickness every moment of the day. For most of the history of mankind, pre 1940 and the invention of antibiotics, most sicknesses were untreatable. Yet, we managed to build an entire civilization under those conditions. And there is a significant chance the resistance to antibiotics will get so great that those days may return. So, I think we need to grow up and start understanding the nature of risks and trade offs again.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"I would rather not die in a car accident or catch a cold. But, that doesn’t mean I am going to stop driving or never go out again."

No, but I would imagine that you take reasonable precautions when you drive, like wearing a seat belt, and you don't mock others for wearing a seat belt for "wearing a symbol of socialist oppression" or whatever, and you don't grumble at the Lame Stream Media every time they report on a car crash and wonder why are they trying to scare people about driving and maybe they should spend their time reporting cancer deaths or something.

[John]

I wear a seatbelt because I consider that to be a reasonable precaution. I do not consider a mask or shutting down our right to free assembly to be a reasonable precaution given the low risks involved. Just because some precautions are reasonable doesn't mean all are.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Others disagree on whether masks are a reasonable precaution or not. If you want your judgment respected on your assessment on the necessity of masks, then respect the judgment of others who come to a different conclusion based on their particular circumstances.

And again if you object to the oppressive public health measures, don't mock the voluntary ones, because those are the alternative to the oppressive ones.

[D Pizzle]

if you object to the oppressive public health measures, don’t mock the voluntary ones, because those are the alternative to the oppressive ones.

Ladies and gentlemen, he actually said this.

[Ron]

seat belts used to be voluntary now you can get a ticket mask were voluntary now you get a warning or a no trespassing soon it will be a ticket anywhere and people will wonder why anyone would ever not wear one. its only "common sense". Note not wearing a mask will also be an opportunity for the police to search persons for anything just like pulling a car over for having a "faulty" tail light.

[Ron]

they will be ticketing people in south beach for a virus that doesn't hurt 99.8% of the people. is this O'rwelian or what.

[Sevo]

Yeah, they are "voluntary" only so long as you do follow our instructions.
If not, well, you had a chance to "voluntarily" follow the instructions, and now the guns come out.

[The White Knight]

So? It's a valid practical observation.

If you don't want a bunch of laws restricting your freedom, embracing voluntary personal responsibility is one way to prevent them.

chemjeff isn't saying that HE is going to be the one oppressing you. He's saying that there are OTHER people out there who will.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I think that there is a strain of libertarianism on display here which really does border more closely on misanthropy. Screw the rest of you, you can't tell me what to do, fuck you I can do what I want, I don't give a shit about you, etc. It is a bit sad to see.

[The White Knight]

Libertarianism is appealing to self-centered people.

Fortunately, there are more well-rounded, more socialized libertarians who have a deeper appreciation of how libertarianism is just the political framework that supports civil society, voluntarism, and an ethical life in which one lives with personal accountability.

[R Mac]

It’s nice of you guys to put to bed the lie that you’re libertarian.

[JesseAz]

You're forcing your judgement on other Jeff. You've argued FOR forced mandates. I dont give a fuck if you wear a seat belt or not. I dont care if you wear a mask or not. You do care and want to force me to comply with your wishes.

You're a statist.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Turns out you don't need the state to enforce measures that are so obvious, you look like a neanderthal when you go against them. Like wearing a small piece of fabric over your nose and mouth. Good luck finding a private business that will accommodate you without a mask where I live (somewhere populous).

[Nardz]

^boot-licking

[De Oppresso Liber]

How so? Acknowledging the FACT that masks reduce the transmission of airborne viral diseases? Or noting that you will not be served by private businesses by going against those facts? Which boot is being licked? Private business owners exercising their property rights?

[Archmagus]

Hi stupid asshole, I have trigeminal neuralgia. Because of bootlickers like you amplifying a stupid idea, my choices are excruciating pain or isolation.

Thanks cunt.

[The White Knight]

Can you connect the dots in a bit more detail how De Oppresso Liber is causing you to only have the two choices of excruciating pain or isolation?

[R Mac]

Shorter white Knight: I agree and support them doing this to you, but I’m not the one actually doing it, so we should be cool.

You guys are statists, no matter how you try to justify it.

[The White Knight]

Well, actually, R Mac, when I looked up trigeminal neuralgia, it was just described as a nerve disorder. So, that wasn’t much to go on as far as figuring out what Archmagus was getting at.

Just found another reference that explains that it causes facial sensitivity.

Sorry you have this condition, Archmagus. I don’t think DOL is advocating your having to wear a mask.

Just found another link

[The White Knight]

To be very explicit, so that nobody can put words in my mouth, I don’t support anyone’s being forced to wear a mask. I want people to be able to use their own judgement and do whatmakes sense to them.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You’ve argued FOR forced mandates.

Prove it.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I dont give a fuck if you wear a seat belt or not. I dont care if you wear a mask or not. You do care and want to force me to comply with your wishes.

See, there are more options than the completely misanthropic position of "fuck you all, I don't care if you die" and the completely statist position of "I 'care' so much about you that I will use the state to force you into obedience". A third option, what I believe to be the libertarian option, is "I do want you to be healthy and happy, but I also respect your own judgment and dignity so I won't force you to obey my commands, but instead I will attempt to persuade you to adopt what I believe to be a decent course of action."

[Don't look at me!]

well John some of us would rather not drive cars at all even if we aren’t likely to die from it. A small accident can can cause permanent lung damage and perhaps even brain damage

[chemjeff radical individualist]

you know, if you object to statist oppressive public health measures, like lockouts, for good reason, then it behooves you to not ridicule people for engaging in voluntary public health measures because that's the alternative to the oppressive ones.

[D Pizzle]

"STOP MOCKING MEEEE!!!" - chemjeff

Ok Karen, your pathetically stupid overindulgence in your own protection has contributed to the vast trampling of human rights, but god forbid anyone point out you're hysterical over infinitesimal risk, that's beyond the pale.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

the alternative to voluntary public health measures, is oppressive public health measures. It is not "no public health at all".

Keep mocking people who choose to wear masks, and don't be surprised when the state decides to force masks down your throat when infections spike.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox4kc.com/news/masks-will-be-required-throughout-all-of-kansas-in-public-gov-kelly-orders/amp/

[Vinegary]

"the alternative to voluntary public health measures, is oppressive public health measures. It is not “no public health at all”.

So you're saying wear a mask or we'll be forced to. "Voluntarily".

Well aren't you a petty little tyrant afraid of your own shadow.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

look at what places like California and Kansas have already done. The writing is on the wall. It's not me you have to worry about, it's them. Your choice.

[George Lu]

No I think worrying about both the tyrants in power and their sycophants like you is something we are capable of.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

if it helps, think of the issue in analogy with guns. If you are a careless gun owner and use your weapon irresponsibility, don't be surprised if your bad example is used to justify greater gun restrictions on all.

It is in your own self interest to take reasonable precautions and it's also in your interest not to mock others who take reasonable precautions for themselves even if they are ones you wouldn't have chosen yourself.

[George Lu]

Even your analogies are ridiculous.

[Sevo]

"if it helps, think of the issue in analogy with guns. If you are a careless gun owner and use your weapon irresponsibility, don’t be surprised if your bad example is used to justify greater gun restrictions on all..."

If it helps, think of stuffing your authoritarian bullshit up our ass.
No one here is confused; you're a lefty piece of shit who will use "voluntary" only so long as you get what YOU want; if not, the guns come out.
We got it, and that's the reason you are despised around here.

[JesseAz]

Where do governments get their power Jeff? From scared authoritarian shits as yourself.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Keep yelling at the clouds.

[Detractor Beam]

keep telling people to lay back and enjoy it

[chemjeff radical individualist]

In terms of public health, the state's power is derived from a LARGE NUMBER of people who are totally fine with authoritarian state measures to force you into compliance.

Me pointing that out doesn't change that simple fact. You can either acknowledge it, or continue to yell at the messenger.

[D Pizzle]

the alternative to voluntary public health measures, is oppressive public health measures. It is not “no public health at all”.

Somehow you always manage to not only be wrong, but retarded as well.

Keep mocking people

YOU. Stop hiding behind "people" we can all see YOU are butthurt about being mocked you little bitch.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

yeah, me as a proxy for all of the imagined whiny crybaby scared cat soyboys out there right? They are the ones actually doing something to slow the spread of this disease and obviate the need for more oppressive measures. You should be thanking them not mocking them.

And again if you want your judgment re: masks to be respected, try respecting the judgment of others who come to a different conclusion based on their circumstances.

[D Pizzle]

yeah, me as a proxy

Oh aren't you the put upon abused warrior for truth that fights the good fight against the bad Trumpies.

No idiot, your behavior here today. No need for seven levels of abstraction.

You're mad because YOU are getting mocked. Learn to fucking read.

and obviate the need for more oppressive measures

It's always threats with you people.

[Nardz]

There is no "need" for oppressive measures, you little communist shit

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Tell that to the Karen's.

[Detractor Beam]

He did when he told you.

[JesseAz]

Obey or we will force you to obey - Jeff

Thank god you took the mask off your libertarianism.

[De Oppresso Liber]

That is the reality of it. You can state over and over, at the top of your lungs that your rights are inherent and granted by none other than god himself, but that won't stop them making masks or shut downs, or gun control, or drug laws, etc. by fiat.

Acknowledge and plan for reality. Be respectful of others and the risks and costs you are placing on others, and your rights are much more likely to be respected.

Whether or not you agree, scientists, doctors, and the general public have all come the conclusion that masks work to prevent the spread of airborne viruses, and impose a very low cost to implement. If you go against that, everyone else perceives (and is backed by science) that you are placing them at risk for your own selfish and petty desires.

[Nardz]

If you need a muzzle to keep you from sneezing and coughing on people when you're sick, you're the problem

[chemjeff radical individualist]

A mask makes it easier to avoid unintentionally spreading the disease via sneezing or coughing.

It is a simple sign of courtesy to others.

[Detractor Beam]

fuck your compelled courtesy

[De Oppresso Liber]

It's not compelled, but it likely will be, if you can't act responsibly on your own. This is simply stating the factual inevitable.

[Nardz]

Only because absolute fucking dumbasses, I mean those so incredibly idiotic that it's tough to imagine them knowing how to tie their shoes, like you buy and repeat the bullshit just so you can get a virtual pat on the head for being a "good boy"

[Detractor Beam]

"relax and enjoy it" - shorter DOL/Jeff

[De Oppresso Liber]

"Yell and stomp your feet!" -- Shorter trump culstists.

Isn't funny how all the Trump fans are suddenly experts in virology. So confident in their own knowledge that they can challenge hundreds of years of medical research. Germ theory is JUST A THEORY!

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The Really Big One can't come soon enough.

[Ron]

the beatings will stop when you learn to love us

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Take reasonable and voluntary steps now, or the state will coerce you into involuntary and unreasonable steps later. - Actual Jeff

[Detractor Beam]

There you go with the threats again

[Overt]

"voluntary public health measures because that’s the alternative to the oppressive ones."

It is not an alternative unless you MAKE it the alternative. It is your belief that these are the only alternative to lockdown or other forced nonsense that makes you part of the problem.

But how about you take a bit of your own medicine. I regularly see you on here trying to mock people for being anti-science because they refuse to believe the handful of cherry-picked studies that suggesting there may somehow somewhere be a reducing effect for masks.

How about everyone stop being so fucking concerned with what other people are doing, and take care of themselves?

[John]

Yes a small accident can cause long term damage. Lots of people have long term health problems from nonfatal car accidents. Yet, we still don't ban cars. Why? Because the cost of doing so would greatly outweigh the benefits.

And you can die from the regular flu. Thousands of people do every year and not just old people. The regular flu is more likely to kill a young or otherwise healthy person than this virus. Yet, I don't recall any of you dumbasses claiming we should close down society and end people's right to free assembly during previous flu seasons.

[Arenny Gomez]

Jeff is trying to split hairs and pretend he is only endorsing voluntary masking. The role his behavior plays in the move toward involuntary masking, he denies any part of.

[John]

Yup. And things never get better. If we roll over and start wearing masks, we will be stuck wearing them forever. People will find the conformity and virtue signaling potential too seductive to give up. When this outbreak ends, they will just find another excuse and we will never get our lives back.

The bottom line is that living life as we are supposed to live it requires assuming some non zero level of risk. And these people are rejecting the assumption of any risk and in doing so are rejecting our freedom and way of life. This isn't about masks and this particular strain of the Kung Flu. It is about much larger issues.

[Earth Skeptic]

Perhaps we should encourage the Karens and nannies to be even more paranoid about exchanging body fluids. They would soon go extinct.

[Ersatz]

Those Karens are not conceived from bodily contact but by sending the results of such contact to the schools and universities and by immersing them in the movies and tv shows and the news reporting that our culture is made from. Like the virus, the 'Karen effect' is not a living thing of itself but is a corruption of the dna of living things.

[Ron]

they are already looking at other excuses to require mask
1. Covid is mutating
2. China has a new swine flue that may be worse than the Covid pandemic
3 masked worked so well why not protect everyone every year form everything imaginable
4. over desensitize everything so that all viruses can gain strength to teh point of desensitizing no longer works

[chemjeff radical individualist]

yes it is about much larger issues.

There can't be a viable libertarian approach to public health if everyone takes a FYTW attitude towards taking *reasonable* *voluntary* precautions. Because very few people, not even most libertarians I reckon, will tolerate a society where public health is just ignored and the resulting death is just tolerated as the price we pay.

This is about how we get to s voluntary public health system. I think a lot of people are fed up with the coercive one, and rightly so. We have to give people a tolerable alternative, and "go die in the alley" really isn't it.

What if the next pandemic is some virus much worse than coronavirus? Will you be prattling on about "virtue signaling with masks"?

[JesseAz]

Jeff gain proves he is the authoritarian in the room.

Who decides reasonableness? You? Fuck off.

We are talking about a disease that is still statistical noise. 2.8 million die every year, yet you freak over 100k mostly near death patients dying. You use this fear to enforce obedience to those who are not even close to statistically in danger of death from covid.

You're a fucking statist. Your mask is off.

[Arenny Gomez]

There can’t be a viable libertarian approach to public health

You could have just stopped there and saved the leftist paeans to public health.

[Rufus The Monocled]

What if, what if, what if....wtf?

If this is how people think they have no life worth living.

[Overt]

"There can’t be a viable libertarian approach to public health if everyone takes a FYTW attitude towards taking *reasonable* *voluntary* precautions. "

No you are absolutely wrong, and we discussed this yesterday.

There is no libertarian world where I am required to mitigate the risk to you for some natural pathogen. If a libertarian knows that they are contagious, they should voluntarily isolate themselves. If they have no reason to believe they are contagious or infected, then there is no reason for them to mitigate the risk of viruses for you. If they choose to do that, it is their preference and you can thank them. If they decline, then they have done nothing less than a libertarian should expect of them.

But we don't even need to look for a libertarian world. We can look fucking 2 years ago, and see that society operated just fine without forcing people to mitigate the risk of viruses on behalf of others. People went about their day all throughout flu season, often inadvertently giving the flu to other people who would then die of it. AND SOCIETY CONTINUED JUST FINE.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I agree that there should not be any public health requirement coercively and externally forced upon you. (Well maybe in some very extreme circumstance like some killer supervirus or something. But not as a matter of course.)

But there is nothing unlibertarian for individuals voluntarily creating obligations for themselves.

If I believe you ought to commit yourself to some obligation, I will try to persuade you and not force you, that is the libertarian methodology.

If you choose not to accept it, then fine. But if you do, then that's great.

I do believe there is a reason for people to take voluntary steps to mitigate the risk to others of the disease - simple courtesy and respect for others. And a bit of humility, since we don't know the unique circumstances of others and can't be sure they will all be okay if you do unintentionally transmit the virus to others.

If that is not persuasive then I have other arguments. If none of them work then fine, I still won't force you to wear a mask. I did my best and that's that.

There is nothing unlibertarian about any of that.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Slippery slope argument against mask wearing. Can it get any dumber? Let's scroll down to find out!

[Nardz]

"Slippery slope argument against mask wearing. Can it get any dumber?"

Yes it can: someone could argue that healthy peopke with no symptoms of illness should wear a mask and shut businesses down to prevent the possible spread of a virus (that they don't have) which kills .001% of the people who catch it.
Not much in the world gets dumber than that

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I am endorsing only voluntary masking and I am self-interested enough to recognize that voluntary efforts forestall more coercive ones .

[D Pizzle]

You're afraid. Stop pretending this is about rights for you.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I am anxious about coronavirus yes. Turns out I am in a higher risk category. Did that cross your mind or did you immediately jump to LOL WHINY BITCH conclusion? Oh wait we can all see what you did.

I do take precautions and I urge others to do so as well not just for my sake but for their own sake.

[Tom Bombadil]

How many people are you willing to kill to protect your high risk life?

[Earth Skeptic]

Something about omelets?

[D Pizzle]

It's funny he completely sells out when he feels like it's his own skin in the game.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

have you stopped beating your wife?

[Arenny Gomez]

Nice dodge.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"It’s funny he completely sells out when he feels like it’s his own skin in the game."

That would be why I am demanding mandatory masks right? Oh wait no I am not.

I am trying to appeal to your enlightened self interest here. Clearly that is a waste of time because you can't see beyond juvenile name calling.

[D Pizzle]

I am trying to appeal to your enlightened self interest here

No you're trying to rationalize your own self interest.

That would be why I am demanding mandatory masks right? Oh wait no I am not.

No you're simply threatening us with that as the stick becauae you are a coward.

And we see right through it.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

you are the poster child against the voluntary approach. Fine don't listen to me, don't wear a mask, get sick and spread the disease, then sit back and wait until masks, or even more coercive measures, are forced down your throat.

You'd rather whine about perceived tyranny than do anything to stop it.

[JesseAz]

Disease will ways exist Jeff. Your approach is what led to the explosion of peanut allergies. Full stop. Your approach made more kids vulnerable to common nuts. Full stop. Your approach is killing people. Full stop.

[D Pizzle]

Fine don’t listen to me, don’t wear a mask, get sick and spread the disease, then sit back and wait until masks, or even more coercive measures, are forced down your throat

But he's totally not threatening us y'all.

[Detractor Beam]

You’d rather whine about perceived tyranny than do anything to stop it

Telling petty little shithead Karens like you to fuck off is DIRECTLY COMBATTING TYRANNY you little shit.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"Karens" run to the state to demand compliance. That is not what I sm doing. I am warning you about what will inevitably happen, demanded by all the Karen's out there, if people don't take a little bit of responsibility for their own health and show a little bit of voluntary courtesy concerning the health of others.

The real tyranny does not come from me, it comes from the state.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"Your approach is what led to the explosion of peanut allergies. "

Allergies != Communicable diseases

[Allison Rojas]

chemjeff radical individualist
June.30.2020 at 12:38 pm
“Your approach is what led to the explosion of peanut allergies. ”

Allergies != Communicable diseases

Actually, allergies have much in common with communicable diseases, specifically in the bodies development of antibodies after repeated exposure to allergens. You are exactly wrong.

[Detractor Beam]

chemjeff radical individualist
June.30.2020 at 12:37 pm
“Karens” run to the state

Is anyone else tired of Jeff demanding that he be allowed to be the arbiter of everything?

Listen KAREN, one of things you do KAREN is to do the states work for them KAREN. Which you have done all through this thread.

KAREN.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Do you think that if you scream KAREN often enough that makes it true?

There are a lot more KARENS out there than there are people like me, and you should be far more concerned on what they will demand the state do to you, rather than me warning you and suggesting ways to AVOID the tyranny that KARENS would foist upon you.

[Detractor Beam]

Oh shit I upset KAREN

[D Pizzle]

No bitch, youre a fucking coward who would take a dick in the ass if you thought it had corona vaccine on it.

Stop pretending this is about anything other thank your rank cowardice. We can all see right through you, and its why you're getting mocked and are butthurt about it.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

you are mocking someone who is in a higher risk category for taking reasonable precautions?

What is the point of that, other than to show off usual immature 4chan levels of behavior?

Do you mock crippled people too? Sheesh

[Sevo]

"you are mocking someone who is in a higher risk category for taking reasonable precautions?"

OH, NOOO!
Jeff's a *VICTIM* on top of being a cowardly piece of lefty shit.
Go crawl in a hole someplace without your whiny keyboard.

[D Pizzle]

You're god damned right I'm mocking you and your petty little threats.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

fine then go back to 4chan and let the adults have a conversation here.

[D Pizzle]

Weren't you just whining yesterday about people thinking they get to decide who gets to have conversations here?

You're afraid. It's making you irrational.

[D Pizzle]

Found it

chemjeff radical individualist
June.29.2020 at 6:38 pm
Tulpa-Karen is here to be the enforcer of who is allowed to have conversations here.

[Nail]

No bitch, youre a fucking coward who would take a dick in the ass if you thought it had corona vaccine on it.

I lol'd

[JesseAz]

Lol. Now jeff wants special favors from others for being obese.

[Nardz]

Jeff, if you're in high risk category: stay the fuck home.
Or don't. Catch the virus and die from it. The world will applaud

[JesseAz]

So stay the fuck home. Your risk is your risk, not mine. Yet you want to FORCE me to mitigate your risk.

Even at higher risk categories, the risk is still low.

You really dont understand math. You see a big number and cower in fear like a bitch. If you want to mitigate your risks from being an obese fuck, go on a diet.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"Yet you want to FORCE me to mitigate your risk."

For the nth time, no. I am trying to persuade you that it's in your own self interest to wear a mask because 1. that is the foundation of the libertarian approach, persuasion over coercion, and 2. to obviate more oppressive measures that the state will inevitably impose should voluntary methods fail.

By the way even your hero Mitch McConnell says mask wearing shouldn't be scorned or ridiculed.

[Arenny Gomez]

. I am trying to persuade you

We see the various times you threatened us though.

[D Pizzle]

By the way even your hero Mitch McConnell

Top Men! Jeff repeats yesterday's silly appeal to authority.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

*I* am not threatening you. The state is. Look at what Kansas just did.

[JesseAz]

Jeff you've literally said multiple times on this thread to voluntarily obey or the state will make you.

You're a fucking liar.

[Rufus The Monocled]

" I am trying to persuade you that it’s in your own self interest to wear a mask because"

Nothing more sinister than one person telling other people what's good for them.

JFC, Jeff.

And fuck McConnell.

[Arenny Gomez]

*I* am not threatening you.

Sure you are.

[Sevo]

"For the nth time, no..."

For the nth time, please stop lying.
No one is fooled.

[Sevo]

"*I* am not threatening you. The state is..."

He's following orders.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"Nothing more sinister than one person telling other people what’s good for them.

JFC, Jeff."

Attempts at persuasion are now "sinister"? WTF

[Petr Olafssön]

I think he means your not so veiled threats of state action if you don't get what you want

[Petr Olafssön]

I think he means your not so veiled threats of state action if you don't get what you want

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"Jeff you’ve literally said multiple times on this thread to voluntarily obey or the state will make you."

Unfortunately that is closer to the truth than most here want to admit.

I believe we should take voluntary measures to slow the spread of the disease. They don't have to be exactly what the state had in mind. Masks, social distancing, whatever. I think there are many beneficial reasons for doing so, one of which is to forestall inevitable state coercive action which would be worse.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"I think he means your not so veiled threats of state action if you don’t get what you want"

For the nth time, I am not the state.

[Arenny Gomez]

We know. But we also know that doesn't stop you from acting as their agent and advancing their causes.

Which you ALSO know. Which is why you say "I'm not the state" as if it precludes you doing work for them.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I am not the state. I am not an agent of the state. I am not doing the bidding of the state. I have zero power over you. Get that through your head. I am not the enemy here. The state is.

[Arenny Gomez]

None of which stops you from advancing their interests or acting as their agent.

[Ron]

no you are not asking for voluntary you are saying volunteer or else that is not voluntary. there is a joke in the military about the CO telling who is volunteering for a mission.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

If we don't voluntarily come up with a solution ourselves, a 'solution' will be imposed upon us by the state.

[Nardz]

Easy solution: don't play along with the bullshit

[Sevo]

Jeff is playing word games in the hopes of someone making a mistake, at which point "GOTCHA!"

[Tom Bombadil]

Bad news: You're going to "catch" it. The virus is not going away.

[D Pizzle]

That was explained to him yestersay, but he didn't and still doesn't understand.

[Sevo]

Well, Jeff, crawl in a hole and stay there. Until your mommy says it's safe, or forever, whichever is longer.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

You're going to catch it eventually. It's a coronavirus. It's inevitable.

The only question is how powerful of a strain you catch. You have a 99% chance that it won't be anything serious. But catch it you will.

[Ron]

the longer a person puts of catching the virus the older they will be and the more dangerous it will be. better sooner than later

[Earth Skeptic]

1. Use plastic and duct tape to seal all your doors and windows.
2. Douse all surfaces with a mixture of bleach and ammonia.
3. Enjoy.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Please explain to the people who get brain damage from coronavirus that 1. "it's just the flu" and 2. their efforts to keep themselves safe should be mocked and ridiculed.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200622-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-infection

[Tom Bombadil]

How can you explain something to someone with brain damage?

[Arenny Gomez]

Which is a conundrum we've been dealing with since Jeff started demanding explanations.

[Arenny Gomez]

Ok. You're a fucking punk bitch afraid of nothing and you deserve nothing but scorn you bran damaged retard.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

This is the type of attitude that will get mandatory masks forced down your throat. You should be thanking people who are slowing the spread of the disease not ridiculing them.

Some people around here are just so short sighted and cannot see beyond their own nose.

[D Pizzle]

This is the type of attitude that will get mandatory masks forced down your throat

Again with the threats because you're a coward.

[De Oppresso Liber]

What's your claim to bravery? Not wearing a mask, and endangering others? Masks are for the people around you, not you. Don't be so incredibly selfish.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The self-indulgent, narcissistic, immature FYTW attitude towards public health is just not going to fly.

It's also just wrong from a basic humanist standpoint.

[D Pizzle]

Ok you've broken out your sockpuppets.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

oh terrific whining about sockpuppets. Lol.

[D Pizzle]

I'll save that for the next time you and your sockpuppet tussle with Tulpa.

[De Oppresso Liber]

D pizzle, you are a weak and pathetic coward. You are afraid of being perceived as a liberal or afraid or whatever if you wear a mask. It is reverse virtue signalling. You need to signal that you are an asshole, because your masculinity and self image is so fragile. Probably. You might also just be delusional, hard to tell.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You need to signal that you are an asshole, because your masculinity and self image is so fragile.

For some of the more obnoxious posters around here, I think this is definitely part of it. Wearing a mask symbolizes 'beta male status' or some such. It is ridiculous.

[George Lu]

Masks are for the people around you, not you.

chemjeff radical individualist
June.30.2020 at 10:50 am
I am anxious about coronavirus yes. Turns out I am in a higher risk category

I guess you forgot you said that Jeff.

[Arenny Gomez]

And what if we agree with the many doctors who see herd immuntiy as the way out of this?

In that case, your masks and fear based thinking are holding the rest of us back you sad little fear cover wearing bitch.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

among your like minded friends who don't mind getting sick from coronavirus because they want to generate herd immunity? Go right ahead, I won't stand in your way. It is a different issue however when dealing with strangers who don't share your viewpoint on the matter.

[Arenny Gomez]

It is a different issue however when dealing with strangers who don’t share your viewpoint on the matter.

No it isn't. Your fear isn't my problem.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

this is the FYTW approach. It is short sighted, immature, and ultimately self-defeating because most people will not tolerate a society where contagious diseases run rampant with nothing at all done about it, not even efforts to voluntarily persuade people to take reasonable precautions.

It is not in your own interest to just say screw you to the rest of the world.

[George Lu]

because most people will not tolerate

More threats.

[Arenny Gomez]

I don't really care what you and your ilk will tolerate. Your fear is still your problem.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"More threats."

Not a threat. A reasonable observation.

[George Lu]

It was an obvious threat.

[Ersatz]

Maybe, given the general understanding that the virus wont be going away and eventually we will all contract some form of it , this is not the FYTW approach but the Serenity Prayer approach.
Just a thought...

[Overt]

"It is short sighted, immature, and ultimately self-defeating because most people will not tolerate a society where contagious diseases run rampant with nothing at all done about it, not even efforts to voluntarily persuade people to take reasonable precautions."

It is the libertarian approach, and it is the opposite of what you say.

Do you believe in the NAP or not? If you believe in the NAP, there is nothing short sighted about focusing on what our responsibilities are to support those principles. For thousands of years, people have been able to live with contagions without demanding that other people- people who are not known to be sick- cower in their homes.

You are acting like we are being unreasonable for honoring liberty, and for following the practices that society has relied on for thousands of years to mitigate disease. It is you who is being outrageous. The ideas of locking down entire countries and forcing everyone to wear masks are COMPLETELY UNPRECEDENTED and yet you act as if *we* are the ones being unreasonable. You ask us how we can envision the existence of a society that you, me and everyone else existed in not more than 8 months ago.

[Earth Skeptic]

OK, Jeff. Tell us what sacrifices YOU would make to prolong your life by a year. And also what you would never sacrifice, even if you could live an extra decade.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

that's a big question, I don't have a complete answer. Like most people I am not a completely self-indulgent blob and I exercise (somewhat) and I eat healthy (somewhat) so I can live a longer and better life.

I don't know what I would *never* give up, I haven't pondered it deeply.

Why do you ask?

[Arenny Gomez]

Like most people I am not a completely self-indulgent blob

Your tireseome mewling about getting mocked for your cowardice says otherwise.

[JesseAz]

Your completely self indulgent. You want to enforce others to mitigate your risks.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"You want to enforce others to mitigate your risks."

Lie.

I want to persuade you to adopt reasonable voluntary measures so as to forestall the inevitable coercive measures that the state will surely impose.

[De Oppresso Liber]

"How dare you ask me to put a piece of fabric over my nose in order to potentially save lives! That's not fair to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee11!!1!"

[D Pizzle]

I want to persuade you to adopt reasonable voluntary measures

Then you should probably do that instead of threatening us because you can't have what you qant, and are being mocked.

You see, we can all read the progression of your weak justifications, and we can all see that you never gave a single fuck about anything other than getting mocked for being a coward.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"Then you should probably do that "

That is what I have been doing.

"instead of threatening us because you can’t have what you qant,"

How many times can I explain this. I have no power over you. It is the state that does.

[Arenny Gomez]

That is what I have been doing

No you've been threatening us.

And for someone who has been pimping the wisdom of the crowd, you sure do ignore it when it tells you you're wrong.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I am pointing out the reality of the situation. It's the state that has the big guns, not me.

But hey let's hear your approach to public health. Should there be one at all?

[Arenny Gomez]

We can see you threatening us.

[Overt]

"How many times can I explain this. I have no power over you. It is the state that does."

So what are you going to do when the state tries to require it, as they have in places like california?

Are you going to *correctly* take the libertarian approach and resist such a thing? Or are you going to shrug and go "See guys, I told you" as the State takes away yet one more freedom from us?

I wear a mask in closed spaces. I also vaccinate my kids. But I will fight tooth and nail against any state that tries to make these things mandatory. Not because JesseAZ or other TeamRed assholes disagrees, but because a state that can compel my daughter to wear a face covering and to stick needles in her arms is a state that will deny her freedom to assemble if she is inconvenient and sees excel spreadsheet models more important than liberty.

You keep arguing that if we don't wear masks, the state will make it mandatory. Why are you ok with this? If people didn't OD on drugs, we wouldn't have bans on drugs either. If men didn't come home drunk every night to their wives, we wouldn't have had prohibition. So what? These should not be roles of the state. The state should get the fuck out of our business whether we are doing what you think is a good idea or not.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So what are you going to do when the state tries to require it, as they have in places like california?

Are you going to *correctly* take the libertarian approach and resist such a thing? Or are you going to shrug and go “See guys, I told you” as the State takes away yet one more freedom from us?

I'll probably do both.

You keep arguing that if we don’t wear masks, the state will make it mandatory. Why are you ok with this?

I am NOT OK with this, which is the whole point of my commenting here on this subject. I am trying to advocate for a way to accomplish the same public health goals, but without the state coercion. And that is with persuasion. If I can persuade you that wearing a mask is a good idea, then there is no need for the state to compel mask wearing.

If I can convince you to vaccinate your kids, there is no need for a law mandating it.

If I can convince you to wear a seat belt, there is no need for a law mandating it.

That's the basic idea here.

[Overt]

"If I can persuade you that wearing a mask is a good idea, then there is no need for the state to compel mask wearing."

Color me skeptical. I think you want people to wear masks because you think it is a good thing, and you don't really care if the state mandates it or not.

This is a terrible way to promote liberty, as it merely encourages people to make stupid arguments like "make the choice I want otherwise the government will make that choice for you."

There is a reason why the ACLU defended the rights for Nazis to assemble. They, unlike you, understood that if you don't give people the freedom to make bad choices, it isn't really freedom.

[George Lu]

Some people got sick so I lose my rights?

Fuck you.

[Earth Skeptic]

Please explain to the people how your paranoia justifies violating the basic rights of millions of others.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I am trying to avoid the coercive public health system that we currently have!

I am trying to escape the false dichotomy of "do nothing and watch the bodies pile up" and "the iron boot of the state forces everyone to comply". The third alternative is if people voluntarily adopt reasonable precautions on their own initiative. This is basically JoJo's position BTW. It is a good idea on a practical level because very few people will tolerate the "do nothing" approach and will choose the iron boot of the state to keep them "safe" if voluntary measures don't work. But it is also a good idea generally because hey there's just less suffering from the virus in general.

[Arenny Gomez]

No Jeff, you are the coercive public health system we currently have. You are the foot soldier and the vanguard, doing their work by threatening people who don't comply.

[Rufus The Monocled]

This guy gets it.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

you give the voluntaryist approach a bad name when you interpret even attempts to freely persuade as unjust coercion. Libertarians could do with fewer paranoid nutjobs.

[Arenny Gomez]

Threatening us like you have is coercion, not persuasion.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I am not threatening anyone. The state is. I'm not Cuomo or Newsom or Abbott.

I have no power to do anything to you. Cuomo and Newsom and Abbott do though.

[Arenny Gomez]

I am not threatening anyone.

Yes, you are it is all over the thread.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Believe it or not, I lack the power to compel mask wearing.

[Arenny Gomez]

That hasn't stopped you from making threats.

[JesseAz]

If your only solution to voluntarily complying is to threaten forcefully complying, it probably wasnt voluntary.

You're not a libertarian. Full stop.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Good heavens. IT'S THE STATE THAT IS THREATENING COERCIVE COMPLIANCE. I am a little flattered that you actually think I have the same coercive power as the state, but I really don’t.

[Arenny Gomez]

IT’S THE STATE THAT IS THREATENING COERCIVE COMPLIANCE.

And you are their agent in this thread, makong threats for them.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You guys are retarded. Full stop.

Put the fucking mask on because there is very good evidence that it reduces the transmission risk for this virus. It is the smallest concession you can make that would demonstrate some tiny measure of empathy, responsibility, and maturity from you.

Ah, I see the problem here...

[American SociaIist]

Hey look Jeff busted out his sock because he's getting crushed. How Jeff of Jeff.

[Arenny Gomez]

there is very good evidence that it reduces the transmission risk for this virus.

Which delays herd immunity. And that is the only end to this without a vaccine.

[Rufus The Monocled]

No, there isn't 'very good evidence'.

Fuck off.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Arennyand Rufus, you're just wrong. Please adjust your political opinions for actual evidence. Thanks.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/

[Ron]

you can get brain damage from the seasonal flue, from car wrecks and yes sometimes from just getting a vaccine. life is full of risk

[Tom Bombadil]

I got brain damage just reading idiot Jeff's comments.

[Rufus The Monocled]

I got Covid of the brain.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

That you're desperate enough to cite cases on the margins shows how weak your arguments are. Universal healthcare advocates do the same fucking thing--"oh, you can't shop for the best health insurance rates when you've been in a car wreck and you're bleeding out!"

If you're going to use a combination of cherry-picking and appeal to emotion, at least try something more sophisticated.

[JesseAz]

Next up Jeff finds out people can have a dangerous reaction to aspirin.

[Arenny Gomez]

You'll notice he can't settle on an argument, and is at the "my motives have been laid bare I need SOME excuse" stage.

[Gray_Jay]

Went right over his head, Skeptic.

I've only done the bleach ammonia thing once. By accident. It was memorable.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Oh I know exactly what mixing bleach and ammonia will do. Telling people to go commit suicide is just too mundane around here nowadays.

[JesseAz]

You catch diseases all the time you know nothing fuck. That is called life. That is why you have an immune system.

If you wish to live in a closed ecosystem, buy yourself a bubble.

I'm sorry you deny biology.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

there is virtually no public market out there for the "no public health measures whatsoever" approach.

We can either try voluntary ones, or coercive ones.

Which do you want?

[Arenny Gomez]

there is virtually no public market</blockquote

And your fear based shilling has nothing at all to do with that. Sure.

[JesseAz]

This is you being a statist you know nothing bitch.

No matter how many laws you want, disease will always exist.

The irony is that fear mongering bitchez like you are why we had an explosion on peanut allergies.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Yes disease will always exist. What do you think is the public appetite for the "do nothing" approach? 1%?

[Petr Olafssön]

If we are basing our decisions on the public and their appetites, the game is already lost.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

This argument is essentially a pragmatic one. What are the viable choices for a public health system? "Do nothing" isn't on the list.

But voluntary measures for public health are also good in their own right as they represent acts of courtesy and respect towards other individuals. It is like holding open a door for a stranger. It shouldn't be compulsory but it is frequently a good idea nonetheless.

[Petr Olafssön]

What are the viable choices for a public health system?

That's stealing a base and frankly, you're basing your preferences on the tyranny of the crowd, your opinion is of very little worth because of that.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

There are many layers to the discussion about a voluntaryist approach to public health. The pragmatic concern is one of many. It is also enlightened self-interest to engage in some voluntary measures for public health.

[George Lu]

they represent acts of courtesy and respect towards other individuals.

I have to say I am enjoying you trying to cast your admitted self preservationism as pragmatism and compassion.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Even if you do think all my arguments are just narrow self-interest in disguise, I have never demanded compulsory mask wearing nor have I defended 'lockdowns' or the like. So much for narrow self-interest.

[George Lu]

It seems I've struck a nerve.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Go to an ebola outbreak zone then, Jesse. You get diseases all the time you know nothing fuck. That is called life.

[Archmagus]

Hi stupid asshole, I have trigeminal neuralgia. Because of bootlickers like you amplifying a stupid idea, my choices are excruciating pain or isolation.

Thanks cunt.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You can wear a face shield that does not touch your face. Alternatively, you can just stay home, much like what you Trump cultists expect from anyone who doesn't want to catch corona because it may kill them. That portion of the population is 1000 or 100,000 times greater in number than your non life threatening condition, sorry.

[Rufus The Monocled]

It's CRAZY.

Behind the rises, there's some good or at least data and information that points to the virus not being lethal.

When all this is said and done people are gonna have to explain themselves. They won't because they'r cowards and will simply say, 'we had no choice but to be hyperbolic' or some ridiculous absurdity attempting to rationalize irrational thought.

Truly a failure of leadership all around.

Just look at the reaction to the spikes. They've gone unhinged.

[Ron]

spikes that are less spiky than expected so i don't see the need for all the hyperventilating but hyperventilating sales papers and encourages raw power from the leites

[Defund Fascism]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=KWuLfvL20aY

They pal around. Another American dies.

[John]

Hey dumb ass, Russia never put a bounty on US troops. That was fake news.

Meanwhile, you know what nation killed over 600 Americans in Iraq? Iran. You know the country that your hero Obama sent several hundred billion dollars in cash to as a thank you for their services.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/04/04/iran-killed-more-us-troops-in-iraq-than-previously-known-pentagon-says/

[Defund Fascism]

You're a traitor

[John]

I am not an Iranian dude. I am an American. So, being angry that Obama sent hundreds of billions of dollars to a country that has murdered thousands of Americans doesn't make me a traitor unless I am an Iranian.

You meanwhile, believe fake news and think shaking hands with Putin is the worth thing ever but sending hundreds of billions of dollars in cash to the worst state sponsor of terror in the world for over 40 years running is just fine.

You should work on that.

[Defund Fascism]

It is certainly not fake news John. That's a Putin line. And here you are repeating Putin's words as if it was gospel. And why would you and Putin be telling the exact same story?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Stop lying.

[Defund Fascism]

Open your eyes. Putin hates America. Trump doesn't care because Trump only cares about his narrow self interest. That's why Trump is a traitor because he puts his personal interests ahead of truth and America. Of course that's the story on most traitors.

[Tom Bombadil]

I've read this thread a few times. Did someone delete "Putin loves America"?

[Sevo]

Reckon this is pod under a new handle?
Has the same sort of pimply-twelve-year-old vibe to it.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Stop lying, glowie.

[Gray_Jay]

Projection is all that these people have. The 'Trump supporters = traitors, because of Putin', instructions must have gone out recently. I've read a bunch of babbling lefties starting to let fly with the treason/traitor talk in the last few days.

See, it doesn't look organic, or that you could have possibly thought of this on your own, if all of your outlets for messaging come out with exactly the same points at exactly the same time.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

What is an appropriate action for the president to take (if this report floating around is true)? Do you want him to nuke Moscow? Assassinate Putin? Attack an airbase? Perhaps his recent withdrawal from nuke treaties is in response to this and the admin is attempting to use soft power to address. Heaven forbid we actually get into a shooting war with Russia, the outcome may not be what the world truly needs.

[Defund Fascism]

Start by defending us from Putin's propaganda instead of participating in it and then respond with diplomatic and economic sanctions.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

So his pulling out of the nuclear treaties with Russia could be a sign of diplomatic pressure being exerted. Can't imagine how that serves Putin's interest.

[Sevo]

"Start by defending us from Putin’s propaganda..."

Yep 'defending us from propaganda' is a...........
WHAT?!
Go get some blinders and ear-muffs; consider yourself 'defended'.

[John]

Trump was never briefed on the alledged Russia bounties

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/06/another_deep_state_lie_blown_out_of_the_water_trump_in_fact_was_never_briefed_about_russian_bounties_herridge.html

And what do you want to do about it? Go to war? And we funded the Mujaheddin against them. Meanwhile, Trump just moved US troops into Poland and closer to Russia, has gotten Europe to start rearming to counter Russia, and thanks in large part to his energy policies, oil prices are down and Russia is broke. The Democrats would reverse all of those policies and it would all be to the benefit of Russia. Yet, it is Trump who is Putin's toady not the people whose actual policies might as well come straight from the Kremlin.

[Defund Fascism]

Trump wasn't briefed that Russians were putting bounties on the heads of American soldiers? Bullshit. The same Trump who risked a war with Iran because Iran proxies killed an American mercenary in Iraq.

[Sevo]

"...The same Trump who risked a war with Iran because Iran proxies killed an American mercenary in Iraq."

To fucking idiots, that qualifies as 'evidence'.

[Defund Fascism]

But Trump was briefed multiple times but did nothing until it became public and then what does Trump do? His first instinct is to parrot Putin's categorical denial. It's pathetic.

[Sevo]

If you posted without lying, someone here (outside of the parody account) might stop laughing at you.
Fuck off, you pathetic piece of shit.

[George Lu]

"But Trump was briefed multiple times "

Please feel free to share your evidence

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

So you want the "stove-piping" of raw intelligence? Are you for the Cheney 1% doctrine? The last time we did that the results weren't that great for America or Iraq.

[JesseAz]

Trump doesn't get briefed on every piece of raw intelligence, especially unconfirmed intelligence dummy.

[De Oppresso Liber]

He definitely got briefed on that one. Are you sure you want to commit to the "he didn't know" story so early on? You know Trump is going to change his story and make you guys look like a bunch of brain dead cultists again.

[Nardz]

Says the guy mindlessly repeating NYT talking points based on anonymous sources despite their track record

[De Oppresso Liber]

Wow, so you just gulp down the bullshit whole.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Speaking from experience?

[Rufus The Monocled]

So this is where TDS has taken the country? Into thinking Russia is putting a bounty on American soldiers?

I swear. 2020 better be a year where somehow cripple-tards got flushed out because not sure I can take much more of this obscene and appalling display of anti-intellectualism and TDS.

We have six months to go and five to the election.

Fingers crossed.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Funny how you just assume this isn't true, when all evidence points out that it is. Several of our NATO allies got the same brief from the CIA. If allies are getting the brief, the president surely has.

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-bounty-us-soldiers-afghanistan-nato-officials-briefed-trump-denies-2020-6

[Arenny Gomez]

"If allies are getting the brief, the president surely has."

Read your own link next time.

[Ron]

And the CIA has never spread false info to others and especially never to the U.S.

[Defund Fascism]

You and Trump immediately jump to "Putin is innocent" when at best the question is still open and there appears to be evidence that it did happen but we already know Putin was arming the Taliban so we know Putin was giving aid and comfort to terrorists who are killing American soldiers. Would cash payments along with these weapon shipments surprise you?

[Sevo]

"You and Trump immediately jump to “Putin is innocent” when at best the question is still open..."

And TDS ignoramuses like you will buy into any fantasy if you hope it'll make Trump look bad.
Pathetic piece of lefty shit...

[Defund Fascism]

It's no secret that Russia arms Iran and the Taliban. Do you dispute this?

[Sevo]

I'm sure that's REALLY IMPORTANT!!!!! to raging maniac conspiracy buffs.

[Tom Bombadil]

You're confusing Russia with Obama.

[Rufus The Monocled]

And Obama armed rebels aligned with ISIS.

Point?

And how does that stretch into bounties? Do you understand what you're accusing Russia of?

Man. What the heck votes Democrat? Lint?

[Sevo]

Pimply 12 year olds.

[Sevo]

Pimply 12 year-olds who really believe the meeting between Hitler and Nixon in Uruguay in '56!
Do I have to connect the dots for you?!

[Defund Fascism]

You don't have a point. Those rebels were using those weapons to fight Assad. And you say these rebels were aligned with ISIS well that's not exactly true. In some case ISIS was killing these rebels and yes in some cases these rebels were allied with ISIS but it wasn't clear cut and unambiguous.

In sharp contrast Russia is arming the terrorists who are at war with us. Which is fine except it means Russia is our fucking enemy. Can you say that? Can you say Russia is an enemy?

[George Lu]

"You don’t have a point"

This is what they say when your point is devastating to their argument.

[Sevo]

Pimply 12 year-olds who really believe the meeting between Hitler and Nixon in Uruguay in ’56!
And who, unfortunately, have access to the computer in Mom's basement.

[Rufus The Monocled]

I'm going with pimply 12 year-old with a puberty voice who watches CNN and plays video games.

For the love of God man. Obama made a complete mess of foreign policy in the Mid-East. He was outwitted at every turn. Where fools thought he was playing chess, the rest of us saw him playing Crazy Eight.

[Gray_Jay]

Nah Rufus, it's more likely an 18-24 year old recent graduate of the indoctrination academy for grievance studies. And her vote counts the same as yours. Or would, if you were American.

You want to 'defend the US from Putin's propaganda?' Great, I do too. Allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy, and get the Federal government out of back stopping said loans. Let the banks, educational institutions, and the Feds get into a three way fight over who owes what.

That will put the people who filled this useful idiot's head with garbage, out of a job. And it will stop filling the electorate with dumb Marxists such as that poster. Which will ultimately hurt Putin (and the Chinese) more than anything.

[Rufus The Monocled]

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)]

It’s no secret that Russia arms Iran and the Taliban. Do you dispute this?

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Aren't you just the stupidest troll in the history of trolls. The 1980's called, they want their conspiracy theories about which superpower arms Iran and the Taliban back.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

It's good to see another commenter who takes #TrumpRussia as seriously as I do.

#MaddowWasRight
#LibertariansForGettingToughWithRussia

[Nardz]

"already know Putin was arming the Taliban so we know Putin was giving aid and comfort to terrorists who are killing American soldiers. Would cash payments along with these weapon shipments surprise you?"

Like we do in Syria and Ukraine?

[Sevo]

"They pal around. Another American dies."

You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.

[Rufus The Monocled]

It's almost as if diplomacy must end.

I can't make sense of their mindset.

They literally reason like children with short attention span while pulling a tantrum.

There's no rhyme or reason; there, there with the way they process foreign affairs.

Just emote, scream, pout, pant shit and emote some more.

[Earth Skeptic]

Was that in Alinsky?

[De Oppresso Liber]

You dumb fucks keep fighting this strawman that people who want Trump to stop inviting Putin to parties when we find out he is paying for the lives of Americans must want war. No one, literally no one has called for war with Russia. Stop being so fucking disingenuous. Actually argue the point, instead of inventing ridiculous positions to argue against.

Tell me why Donald The Traitor should have invited Putin to G7 after finding out about Putin paying for the murders of Americans.

[Detractor Beam]

Ok the point is you have no useful evidence.

[Rufus The Monocled]

This is another exercise in 'muh Russia'. Produce actual evidence.

Meanwhile, the real threat is China and you clowns infected with TDS are busy, as usual, looking in the wrong places.

You're a useful idiot.

[De Oppresso Liber]

There is plenty of evidence, once again. Either half a dozen or more people, across our government and the governments of several allies are all lying in a concerted way, or once again Donald Trump is lying. I know which is more likely, but I have a feeling you don't.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53231840

[Ra's al Gore]

Is Social Justice Just A New Genre Of Self-Help For White Women?
https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2020/06/29/social-justice-just-new-genre-self-help-white-women/

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

WHY do so many people get so excited over increased case counts?

I get why politicians and control freaks do; it gives them new power levers.

Case counts are meaningless without know how many more people were tested, where those tests were done, and how many people were counted as a new case without being tested.

Death counts are a real mishmash, not consistently separating deaths from the virus and deaths with the virus; but as long as they are consistently inconsistent, they are at least comparable.

CASE COUNTS ARE USELESS.

[John]

Not only are the death counts inflated as they count God knows how many people who die and just happen to have COVID but COVID wasn't the primary cause of their death, the death counts have been dropping consistently since peaking on April 25th.

If anything, the increased case counts are good news since when considered with the decreasing numbers of deaths, they show the virus to be much less deadly than was previously thought.

[Earth Skeptic]

Quit trying to move the goal posts back where they were!

[John]

In March is was "we must bend the curve and keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed." Now it is, "no one must get sick at all even if the virus doesn't produce any symptoms in the person infected." They must have brought in a tow truck to move the goal posts that far.

[Rufus The Monocled]

My new theory. Gather around kids. John put the marshmallow down. I hate marshmallow.

Sweden and USA are ahead of the curve.

New infections and not locking down are GOOD in the long-run.

[John]

That is my theory. Before there were vaccines, there was inoculation. That is how they got rid of small pox and still how they deal with it now. Inoculation is where you are given a small amount of the virus that is just large enough to activate your immune system and get your body to produce antibodies but not large enough to make you sick.

It looks to me like this virus is the perfect candidate for inoculation. If you are young and healthy, you are unlikely to suffer any symptoms at all especially if you are infected with a small initial virus load. These new cases are just really a form of mass public inoculation.

[Longtobefree]

Yep.
It would be nice if all these scare headlines actually included three more meaningful numbers, ideally broken down by a few age bands.
1. Percentage of positive tests
2. Number of hospitalizations
3. Number of deaths.
Given that herd immunity has to be the final solution, more cases is good news, it that is the only number rising dramatically.

[Tom Bombadil]

You had me at "final solution".

[Sevo]

It'd also be nice of the D governors acted as if they could understand that the number of cases is irrelevant.

[Echo Chamber]

What % of cases lead to hospitalization?
What % of hospitalizations lead to death?
Broken down by age group.

[Tom Bombadil]

1% lead to hospital
1% of hospital lead to death.

1% of 1% is 1/10,000

Note: I pulled these numbers out of my ass. I wager they are closer to the truth than 99% of experts.

Note: I pulled the 99% out of my ass.

[Tom Bombadil]

Note: those made up numbers refer to people who aren't already on death's doorstep.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hence, my theory that Sweden and USA may be onto something - wittingly or otherwise. Damn the torpedoes.

[Ron]

and
4. number of recovery
they report total cases as if no one ver gets better

[Tom Bombadil]

(#of cases) - (those who never recover) = (# who recover)

[Roberta]

It's like how drug use became a matter of concern in itself, even if most of the people taking them came to no harm from them, and many of those who did come to harm from them had mental and physical problems beforehand that both led them to take drugs and contributed to harm or death themselves.

[Ra's al Gore]

Another Virus with the Potential to Cause a Pandemic Was Discovered In None Other Than China
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2020/06/29/another-virus-with-the-potential-to-cause-a-pandemic-was-discovered-in-none-other-than-china-n2571580

[Tom Bombadil]

This headline could probably be written every fortnight. Just depends when it is politically expedient to do so.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Racist.

Can we build a wall around China?

[Longtobefree]

General Douglas MacArthur had that idea once upon a time.
He got fired.

[Freddy the Jerk]

Nothingburger, like the last swine-flu variant. It's just China virtue-signalling that they're super-serial about combating infectious diseases.

[Gray_Jay]

So, the author is calling for an immediate cordon sanitaire around China, and immediate cessation of all travel and trade, right?

No? They're not? It's total fearmongering bullshit, you say?

[Earth Skeptic]

Legalize mushrooms? Sure.

Besides the libertarian issues about drug use, perhaps providing shrooms, pot, hash, and other mellowing compounds could quiet things down among the unhappy classes.

[American Mongrel]

The people are going to need an opiate, doesnt really matter which one.

[Ra's al Gore]

Carl Reiner died.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Was he rabidly anti-Trump and illogical like Meathead?

[Unicorn Abattoir]

That was Rob Reiner. Carl was his dad (and yes, both are/were hardcore left).

[Juice]

Damn shame, but he was almost 100.

[Ra's al Gore]

Just out of curiosity, legalizing things aside, what is the libertarian position on the CCP flooding the US with cut rate fentynal to help get people addicted?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Would it be not as bad if it was some Walter White figure flooding the market with fentanyl to get people addicted?

[Ra's al Gore]

"some Walter White figure" is a hypothetical individual. The CCP has no constitutional rights.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The drug users, and all citizens, do have constitutional rights, in either case. All of the problems of the drug war - criminalization of a medical issue, loss of our liberties by law enforcement trying to stop drugs, increased violent crime due to the black market - apply just the same whether the drugs came from China or from Walter White. Why does attaching CCP as the source change anything?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Legalizing is the answer. It's hard to sue your local drug dealer because he was cutting his product with fentanyl. Put that transaction above board and drug manufacturers would be forced to test and stand behind their product, either due to competition or at the risk of being sued or even held criminally liable.

[John]

People accidentally overdose on opiods for two reasons; either they get off them and go through withdrawal only to start using again without adjusting the dose back down to account for their lack of tolerance or they get drugs that are cut badly either with poison or is way stronger than they thought it was.

Legalizing wouldn't get rid of the first category, though it would probably reduce it some. But, would totally end the second category. If there is one thing that the drug war has taught us, it is that a certain number of people are going to use drugs no matter what and most people won't use them or if they do won't abuse them no matter what. So, making them illegal is pretty pointless and does nothing but make criminals rich and needlessly kill a bunch of people.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Other than someone's misguided morality to tell others what to do, I can't think of any valid argument against legalization. As Ron Paul famously said in the debate, people aren't suddenly going to go out and start using heroin in droves just because it's legal. The illegality is only a small modification of the risk/reward trade-off involved in deciding or not deciding to use drugs. The drug war also doesn't seem to affect the supply of drugs greatly, nor the cost when you consider the amount of taxes legal weed has been hit with.

I can't imagine too many people saying, "I would love to use heroin or meth, if only it were legal."

[John]

The argument is that if you legalize it people who otherwise would not use drugs will use them and then abuse them causing more social harm than you save by legalizing them. It is not an unreasonable argument but I think it is a flawed one none the less.

It rests on the assumption that drugs have this seductive power that can overcome our reasonable faculties. It is the same assumption that drives the entire addiction industry. "I didn't make choices, I have a sickness" kind of crap. I don't buy that shit for a minute. Even with prohibition tens of millions of people have tried drugs and even used the regularly at some point in their lives only to grow tired of them and find something else to do. I know tons of people who were young in the 70s and early 80s who snorted more than their share of cocaine back in the day. And none of them ever became addicts or degenerates and all of them eventually grew up and got lives and decided that snorting coke wasn't that great. The truth is being a drug addict sucks and it is not something the vast majority of people want to be or will be. People who abuse drugs do so because they have compulsive, self destructive personalities. The drugs are just the means they express that. But take the drugs away and they will find some other means of expressing those traits. You see this all of the time with addicts. A guy is a drunk or a drug addict, gets treatment and kicks the stuff but still has the same personality problems and just moves on to gambling or food or something else.

So, I do not think legalizing drugs would increase drug abuse. It might increase use as people like me who don't use drugs because of the legal risks but are not prone to be addicts, used recreationally. But the number of drug abusers would stay the same. The same people who abuse drugs now would do so then. They just would be killing themselves less often and their money wouldn't be going to criminal cartels.

[Earth Skeptic]

Clearly, we need a fentanyl tariff. That the CCP will pay.

[Sevo]

"what is the libertarian position on the CCP flooding the US with cut rate fentynal to help get people addicted?"

My position is that people are free to 'get addicted' on cheap drugs as well as expensive ones.

[Ken Shultz]

My first reaction is skepticism.

China wants to ruin its most important source of jobs and income for its people for what reason?

"The fear of intrigue and subversion doesn’t exist only on the fringes of society, but has always been part of our national identity. When such tales takes hold, Walker argues, they reflect the anxieties and experiences of the people who believe them, even if they say nothing true about the objects of the theories themselves"

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0062135554/reasonmagazinea-20/

Is there video of the meeting when Emperor Xi said, "Flood the U.S. with fentanyl", or is this based more on supposition?

[Earth Skeptic]

Was Putin there, too?

[Sevo]

I'll bet you don't believe Nixon met Hitler in Uruguay in '56, either.

[I, Woodchipper]

Just out of curiosity, legalizing things aside, what is the libertarian position on the CCP flooding the US with cut rate fentynal to help get people addicted?

The FDA and Drug War itself are both unconstitutional *and* a violation of the more general non-aggression principle espoused by libertarians. "My body my choice" applies to the WHOLE body.

So, the libertarian take on Chinese companies selling Fentanyl to American consumers who want it is... so?

[lap83]

"The mutation doesn't appear to make people sicker, but a growing number of scientists worry that it has made the virus more contagious"

Sure, let's go with that. Whatever allows us to not blame protesters and to arrest the non mask wearers

[olivia]

Start making money this time... Spend more time with your family&relative by doing jobs that only require for you to have a computer and an internet access and you can have that at your home. Start bringing up to $65o to $7oo a month. Read More.

[John]

https://variety.com/2020/biz/news/carl-reiner-dead-died-dick-van-dyke-1234694208/

Carl Reiner died. What a shame. Reiner's Elliot Gould's performances in Oceans 11 was a clinic in how actors are no longer as good as they used to be. Here are these old guys who hadn't been stars in 30 years and Reiner never really had been a movie star in the same movie with the three biggest leading men of the day (Clooney, Pitt, and Damon) and they walked away with every scene they were in. Every time one of them was in a scene it was like "oh this was an actual professional actor looks like doing a scene versus the amateurs around them".

[Rufus The Monocled]

I agree. Old school bitch slaps the new school pansies.

To me, the great actors of my day are: Di Caprio, Daniel Day Lewis and some may add Crowe in there.

I'll leave Nicholson out for now.

[Rufus The Monocled]

But the greatest scene in cinema history is Lloyd Christmas making the most annoying sound.

[Tom Bombadil]

DiCaprio is shit. On screen all I see is "I AM ACTING!"

[John]

Bingo

[Freddy the Jerk]

Really? All I see is "I AM CONSTIPATED!"

[John]

Phillip Seymour Hoffman was a hell of an actor and from this generation. Gary Oldman is a great actor.

Damon and Wahlberg can be very good within certain range when they are basically playing some altered version of themselves. Damon was great in The Departed, but he was playing a smarmy shit bag from South Boston, or in other words Matt Damon. Wahlberg was great in The Fighter, playing a white trash guy from South Boston who makes good, or himself.

[Tom Bombadil]

Phoenix impresses me the most. Hoffman was near perfection.

[John]

I forgot about Pheonix. He is probably the best actor of this generation.

[Dillinger]

agreed on Gary Oldman too. never misses.

[Nardz]

Di Caprio is way overrated.
He plays the exact same character pretty much the exact same way in every movie. He plays Leo DiCaprio, and it's just the scenery around him that changes.
Which is fine. Like Denzel Washington, Leo plays himself enthusiastically.
Brad Pitt is a better actor.
So is Matt Damon, to a lesser extent.
Gary Oldman is a master.
Viggo Mortensen is better.
And Tom Cruise is a million times better at Leo than Leo

[Mickey Rat]

Roberts: As my colleagues bad reasoning carried the day in a previous decision, I am bound to reinforce that decision for eternity."

There is little that makes sense about the idea that the Constitution is malleable but precedent is adamantine. Of course, do not expect one of the Leftist judges to respect stare decisis if a case comes up where Heller or Citizens United is the precedent.

Maybe the reason abortion providers cannot get hospital admission privileges is because they are the bottom of the barrel of the medical profession? What competent physician would want to run an abattoir?

[Longtobefree]

Never confuse a court of law with a hall of justice.

[The New Number Two]

Roberts: "I'm a conservative judge. I defer to past Court decisions."

Gorsuch: "I'm a conservative judge. I defer to the legislatures."

What ever happened to interpreting and applying the actual text of the Constitution?

[Mickey Rat]

Given that abortion rights do not appear in Constitution and involve a potential conflict of rights, Gorsuch's approach seems the more Constitutionally prudent. Also, that abortion seemingly is the only type of medical service that cannot be subject to onerous regulation is a bit incongruous.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Abortion is subjected to regulation, but it cannot being subjected to regulation that makes it de facto illegal. Anti-choicers are going to have to come to grips with the fact that abortion is legal and access to it is a right. It has been settled over and over now. Trying to do cute run arounds to regulate abortion out of existence will not work.

[NashTiger]

De facto illegal? You can't give vasectomies without admitting privileges, or rotator cuff surgery, or a hysterectomy. Neither of those are illegal.

[Roberta]

But Clarence Thomas did the same with stare decisis in the next interstate commerce case after being in the minority with Raich. (Or maybe it was the previous case and Raich was the next one.)

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Another person has been killed, and a 14-year-old boy wounded, in Seattle's Capitol Hill Occupatied Protest (CHOP) zone.

The "other person" was 16 years old.

This was a complete shit-show. Apparently someone in a white SUV had gotten in some kind of gun battle or argument with the SPAZs earlier. Around the same time, these kids had stolen a Jeep and were on a joyride. When they happened to show up in the neighborhood, the SPAZs opened fire on them.

I actually listened to the audio in a stream and its brutal--the Jeep got popped, and you hear "oh, you're not dead?" Some more commotion, and someone says, "you want to get pistol-whipped?". A couple seconds later, someone (maybe the same person) yells, "Oh shit, it's fucking kids, man!" The other kid was apparently hit with a pick-ax.

The SPAZs removed the evidence before the police got there and weren't cooperating, because they straight-up murdered a 16-year-old, and tried to murder a 14-year-old. The cherry on top is both the kids were black.

"NO POLICE! WE CAN KILL BLACK KIDS JUST FINE OURSELVES! IT'S THE SUMMER OF LOVE AND DEMOCRACY IN ACTION!"

Fucking vermin.

[Mickey Rat]

So now they are the vigilantes killing people. Maybe this enforcing public safety is not that easy after all?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The people of Seattle wanted this and support it. If they didn't, they'd be massing at City Hall, demanding that Durkan and that walking bacterium Kshama Sawant (it's in her district) clear the place out and make it safe for people to walk around there again without fear of getting shot.

The idiots enabled this, and now they're reaping it.

[John]

They certainly voted for it. I honestly think the mayor and governor thought Trump would bail them out. They figured Trump would send in federal agents or federalize the National Guard and clean up this mess for them. Then they could have called Trump a tyrant and been able to claim they supported these lunatics while also getting the benefit of Trump putting a stop to this. When Trump didn't do that, both they and the city were screwed. The Mayor now has the Pantifa assholes protesting outside her house because she dared even talk about putting a stop to this. Meanwhile, they have turned 6 blocks of the city into Liberia complete with a warlord and the residents are suing the mayor for failing to protect their civil rights.

There is one of those old "Demotivator" posters that were around in the 00s that had a picture of a ship sinking with the caption "sometimes your purpose in life is to act as a warning to others". The mayor needs to hang that poster in her office. She is showing every mayor in America what happens when you allow these idiots to have their way. I feel bad for Seattle. But, like you say, they voted for it. But, I think the entire episode is providing some very needed education for the various dingbat Prog mayors in this country.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Some of them learned from it pretty quick. They've been trying to set one up in Portland for weeks, and Wheeler keeps taking them down. When Antifa's own creature won't even let them set up, it's pretty clear that Seattle fucked up badly.

[John]

Wow. Yeah, if Portland won't put up with them, no one will put up with them. The whole thing was always an astro turfed sham. The people on the right peeing their pants over this stuff were fools. This is not 1968 where a significant portion of the country really did rise up and start burning shit down. This was a coordinated attack done by a few far left Marxist organizations. It is not a insurrection or even a popular uprising. It is a bunch of assholes causing problems and a few mayors and governors egging them on and refusing to do anything to stop them.

Trump did the exact right thing to sit back and let the majors own this nonsense. It is all fun and games to be all pro Antifa when they are COSPLAYING and fighting a few Proud Boys who escaped from the mother's basements. But, when they take over parts of the city and start eating the furniture, things get real.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

This was a coordinated attack done by a few far left Marxist organizations. It is not a insurrection or even a popular uprising.

It's basically BLM and their bosses at the DNC taking advantage of the social unrest caused by their colleagues deliberately forcing mass unemployment on the economy, while pushing the "white people evil" line to placate their minority pets. When you look at BLM's ties to the DNC, they're basically a slush fund for the party; the DNC still hadn't fully recovered financially from Obama screwing them over by redirecting money over to OfA. BLM has taken in millions the past few weeks, and the DNC is going to be able to tap into that now.

[John]

It always comes down to stealing with the left. It never fails. Get beyond all the the rhetoric and you always find some guy getting rich from other people's money.

It certainly has raised a lot of shackdown money. But I think it has done real damage to the party. They have associated the party with intolerant lunatics and chaos. I don't think that is going to be worth it even with the money.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Even if you hate Trump, the only logical reason to vote for Biden at this point is because you honestly think he's either going to die or be 25th Amendment'd out of office, and his Vice President will take over shortly after he takes office.

That's who these people will be voting for--his VP, not Biden himself. Initially, I thought it was going to be Abrams, but not even the Dems want that entitled walking stereotype with her finger on the button. Harris and Vindman are a no-go because they're LEOs. I'm pretty sure at this point it's going to be Susan Rice--DNC establishment, Obama official, and wholly inoffensive.

[John]

The greatest appeal that Biden ever could have and one that stood a good chance of winning the election was Biden was a return to peace and quiet. That Biden would just be a placeholder and after 8 years of Obama trying to transform the country and four years of Trump on Twitter fighting with the media undoing it, Biden would be four years of a harmless nonentity that would finally let the country alone for a while.

This summer ended any chance of him making that appeal. Now voting for Biden means voting for his likely lunatic VP and voting for the idiots tearing down statues. You might consider that superior to Trump but whatever you think of it it certainly isn't any return to normalcy or peace and quiet.

[Earth Skeptic]

As long as they wear body cams, right?

[Tom Bombadil]

I heard the kids were selling loosies. Capital offense.

[Rufus The Monocled]

It's appalling. A breakdown of the moral order.

I refuse to believe Americans will vote Democrat come November.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

It is appalling. It's also a microcosmic speedrun of what a radical left society would be like if these assholes actually ran things.

[Longtobefree]

Americans may not, but the Russians certainly will - - - - - - - - - - - -

[mad.casual]

The best part of all this is that they're making the Bundys look like professional political mercenary badasses.

It's six blocks and they've got at least a dozen armed men. How is any low-level crime at all happening?

At this point, it seems like these dipshits couldn't secure a modest sized Amazon shipping center, let alone capably operate it at virtually any level.

[John]

They are comical idiots. The people on the right thinking this is some kind of revolution or insurgency have lost their minds. I saw an insurgency in Iraq. And I wouldn't say those people were that bright, but they were not completely stupid and pretty clever in some ways and sure as hell scary. These people are none of that. They are about as competent and intimidating as the people playing Storm Troopers at COMICON.

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[Ken Shultz]

Facebook's paymasters are rebelling.

"Coca-Cola, Starbucks and Unilever have joined a growing list of latest major advertisers pulling advertising from Facebook amid concerns over hate speech and disinformation on the platform.

“Continuing to advertise on these platforms at this time would not add value to people and society,” says Unilever, which is halting all Twitter, Facebook and Instagram advertising in the US “at least” through 2020. “We will revisit our current position if necessary.”

The move is part of the ‘Stop Hate for Profit’ campaign, which is calling on the social network to implement stricter measures around hateful and racist content on its platforms.

https://www.marketingweek.com/coca-cola-starbucks-unilever-join-facebook-ad-boycott/

Facebook's stock opened about 25% lower on Monday than it closed at on Thursday--and this is why Facebook is going on a rampage against any and all controversial speech on its platform.

I maintain that advertising supported media is fundamentally incompatible with offensive content--however offensive is defined at the time--and it has always been this way. If you wanted to hear Lenny Bruce in the early 1960s, you had to go to a club. You weren't about to see his most controversial content on advertising supported broadcast television. If you wanted to see a slasher movie in the 1970s, they weren't broadcasting that on advertising supported network television either--you had to pay to see it in a theater. They wouldn't play any one of dozens of offensive hardcore and punk rock bands on advertising supported broadcast radio in the 1980s, and if you wanted to watch a porno, you had to go buy it on VCR.

The point is that advertisers will not support content that is considered offensive to any more than a tiny fraction of the people they're trying to reach with their advertising, and for that reason, among others, libertarians have been arguing that there is no need for government censorship of public broadcasting since forever. If you want to show people offensive content, you need to go to a non-advertising supported content delivery business model--like a subscription service or direct sales.

Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram broke the model because the platform or "network" was no longer the creator of the content. This let advertisers reach people with content that targeted far narrower interests than ever before--and the content was created free of charge. However, it also meant that the "network" could no longer control the creation of the content to make it sufficiently unoffensive for advertisers--and the natural tendency for advertisers to shun offensive content remains the same as always.

Controversial content on advertising supported platforms was doomed from the start. The good news is that there are other social media platforms that are not driven by advertising, and people who wish to create and consume more controversial content will surely gravitate to those platforms over time--just like people stopped watching broadcast television and started watching subscription supported services like HBO and Netflix.

I'd warn against trying to use the government to make Facebook and others more tolerant of content that advertisers shun, but the idea that politicians in the Democratic OR Republican party will stick up for the offensive speech of average people is a delusion, and I am not delusional. Maybe console yourself with the realization that Facebook is doomed to becoming more like broadcast television with its vanilla morning news shows, canned sitcoms and dramas, singing contests, and generally boring content. If it weren't for live sports, plenty of consumers would never watch broadcast television at all anymore. There's a price to be paid for being an advertising supported platform--and at one point on Monday, being supported by advertising cost Facebook hundreds of billions of dollars in its market cap.

And that hurts.

[John]

I think you make a good point about the long term viability of the social media business model. If you have offensive content, then no one wants to advertise. But, once they start regulating "offensive content", since there is no real consensus on what is and is not offensive, they will end up censoring so much content that the platforms will become sterile and people will stop using them. And without the people, there is no reason to advertise on them.

I think you can already see this problem with Twitter. Twitter was never that important outside of journalists and news and sports junkies. But it's influence I think has fallen greatly over the last couple of years. You used to never hear about a celebrity making an announcement on Instagram or other social media platforms. It was always on Twitter. Now, it is the opposite. Twitter let the SJWs create their "committee for safety" or whatever it was and they purged the platform of any interesting content and in doing so are destroying it's business model.

I think social media as we know it has seen it's peak in this country. The public will move onto something else.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Companies dictating what they think is offensive is nothing new but still troubling.

[Ken Shultz]

One of the legitimate issues is that the concerns of advertisers aren't driven by the tastes of everyone equally.

As you get older and figure out what you like, you become less likely to switch brands because of advertising. Sometimes extremely popular shows get cancelled on broadcast television just because the audience skews older and advertisers aren't willing to pay much to advertise to that demographic. That means the tastes of younger audiences are being represented by advertisers disproportionately when it comes to broadcast media.

We might think that targeted advertising would fix that problem on social media, but it actually makes it worse. When Kylie, the 19-year-old gets an ad served to her for a brand of lip gloss and it shows up next to her dad's rant against BLM, the advertiser is freaking out. They spend millions of dollars to have their brand associated with messages of health, beauty, fun, and joy to 19-year old girls looking for lip gloss--and now, subconsciously or otherwise, their customers are associating the brand with rants against BLM.

What do you do about that if you're Facebook--tell the advertisers that subconsciously associating their brands with things is a futile exercise anyway? That's what advertising does--it creates an image in people's minds of a brand, often subconsciously. That's what Facebook does for a living. They're an advertising platform that sells ad space to advertisers looking to make a subconscious impression on people.

[Longtobefree]

Socialist run corporations boycotting other socialist run corporations because they are not socialist enough.
Should I weep or shout with joy?

[De Oppresso Liber]

This is the free market, not socialism. Turns out customers don't like certain opinions, and don't like companies that seem to support certain opinions. If you don't like that, vote with your own $$.

[Ken Shultz]

Yeah, I'm totally on board with that.

[Sevo]

"Gilead’s $2,340 price for coronavirus drug draws criticism"
https://www.wtnh.com/news/health/coronavirus/gileads-2340-price-for-coronavirus-drug-draws-criticism/

Now:
1) That is for the entire course of treatment, which, on average, reduces hospital occupancy by 4 days, saving an average of $12K/patient.
2) If the critics are so concerned regarding the financial welfare of the flu, you'd think they'd turn an eye toward the economic disaster caused by the lockdowns.

[Ken Shultz]

Yeah, the reason people are willing to pay that much is because it's worth it--and taking a pill will always tend to cost less than the labor and equipment needed to treat an illness otherwise.

Even ostensibly more conservative outlets are running stories about the virus magnifying the effects of racism. If people on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale have worse survival rates and African-Americans are overrepresented on the lower end of that spectrum because of racism, then shouldn't pricing the drugs they need to survive like that be considered racist?

Once you start demanding equality of outcome, there is no escaping redistributive socialism.

[Earth Skeptic]

And re-education camps, political officers, and universal surveillance.

[Longtobefree]

It is an IV treatment.

[Longtobefree]

It is covered by Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance.
The 'list' price for 'syringe and vial' insulin is $712.00. The patient pays $5.00. (monthly amounts)

[The New Number Two]

"Government needs to regulate healthcare with a heavy hand because the industry is greedy and self-serving. If you disagree, you're a bad person"

"Abortion is simply women's healthcare. If you disagree, you're a bad person"

"Abortion should be subject to zero regulations. If you disagree, you're a bad person."

Somehow the left manages to subscribe to all three.

[Longtobefree]

And for God's sake, NEVER ask to compare (lack of?) regulations on any other surgical procedure in the same diagnostic group.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

"The mutation doesn't appear to make people sicker, but a growing number of scientists worry that it has made the virus more contagious,"

That would make sense, wouldn't it? A virus that doesn't kill or significantly disable its host would have the opportunity to infect more people.

[Dillinger]

it's like these scientists have never caught a cold.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-could-it-be-burning-out-after-20-of-a-population-is-infected-141584

The spread of SARS-CoV-2 has been difficult to predict and understand. On the Diamond Princess cruise ship, for example, where the virus is likely to have spread relatively freely through the air-conditioning system linking cabins, only 20% of passengers and crew were infected. Data from military ships and cities such as Stockholm, New York and London also suggest that infections have been around 20% – much lower than earlier mathematical models suggested.

This has led to speculation about whether a population can achieve some sort of immunity to the virus with as little as 20% infected – a proportion well below the widely accepted herd immunity threshold (60-70%).

[Bearded Spock]

So nothing about Jerry Taylor, former veep at Cato and past Reason contributor, publicly threatening on Twitter to attack persons lawfully defending their property with firearms and "beat their brains in"?

Why does this matter? Because it is yet another datum supporting my argument that most libertarians nowadays are just Lefties who hate the Drug War or want legal hookers.

[Juice]

That's interesting coming from a Republican because the old complaint was that Libertarians were just Republicans that wanted legal weed and hookers. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

[John]

That was the old complaint. But I think that was applicable back when Libertarians were more often of the Rothbard variety. Today, they are of the Reason Liberaltarian variety. Taylor is the director of something called the Niskanen Center. That is the half assed think tank started by Will Wilkerson, the guy who came up with the term "Liberaltarian". Wilkerson has never worked in government or the private sector and has no actual job experience or skills. But, he feels qualified to start a think tank that explains how all of these places that won't hire him and he is not qualified to work in should be run.

[John]

That was some high comedy, however. Taylor was going to beat the brains in of two people one of whom was armed with an AR 15 and the other with some kind of automatic pistol. Taylor apparently graduated from the Trayvon Martin School of Self Defense.

It is just uncanny how nearly every single one of these people who work in journalism or think tanks, no matter how Libertarian or Conservative they claim to be, turn out to be some variety of leftist clown whenever the mask slips. And they make up for it by being stupid and saying dumb shit like how they are going to beat up two people who are armed when they are not. So there is that.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Jerry Taylor doing a banzai charge at Ken and Karen, only to get ventilated for his troubles, would be in the running for funniest story of 2020. Notice the little pussy says "I'd like to think I'd rush them." Not "I'd actually do it."

What a waste of carbon molecules that guy is.

[John]

If he wouldn't do it, then why is he saying it? I don't think I would pull out my magic disintegrater gun and disintegrate them either. So what is the point of talking about it?

I have less respect for people like Taylor than I do for actual killer leftists. The actual killers are evil but they at least have the balls to make good on their word. People like Taylor would never actually do anything but will happily fantasize about it and cheer it on should someone come along who would. Taylor is a serious low life.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

He's basically inciting people to go after them and kill them, which validates exactly why it's important to own firearms.

[Longtobefree]

Semi-automatic pistol, please.

[Freddy the Jerk]

That thing had to be unloaded btw. There's no way a rando Karen would treat something as viciously deadly as a (shudder) GUN the way she did unless she knew it wasn't loaded. She had her finger on the trigger the whole time, and at one point had it aimed directly at the back of her husband's head.

[Gray_Jay]

I'd go 50/50 about whether it was loaded or not. It may very well have had a magazine in it, but with no round chambered.

People don't think when they're under stress. They default to the level of their usual actions or training, and it takes some training to know to keep your finger off the trigger, and not to sweep anybody. She did the best she could, and thankfully, it was enough.

[Ken Shultz]

That isn't a pretty sight.

I might take issue with the idea that he is representative of libertarians generally speaking. If he broke away from libertarians (and calls himself a recovering libertarian) because he wanted to go further to the left than the label libertarian would allow, then how can we say he's representative of the libertarian mainstream.

I maintain that much of the Reason staff here isn't representative of the libertarian mainstream either. I suspect, rather, that the antagonism we see to staff here is more representative of what most libertarians think. I think Reason is further to the left than the average libertarian, and I think Taylor and his associates are even further to the left than Reason.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

He calls himself a "recovering libertarian and radical moderate." Basically, chemjeff, White Knight, or that idiot Moderation4Ever with a better grift.

And of course the fucking coward blocked his tweets after talking shit.

[John]

If there is a surer indicator that a person is a phony idiot than them calling themselves a "radical moderate", I am not sure what it would be. What a stupid and meaningless phrase. Taken literally, it means not to actually believe in anything and just go along with whatever the majority thinks. That would be bad enough, but these sorts of people do that but then think they are "free thinkers". It is pathetic.

[The White Knight]

Sure, OK. But, as I said in comments yesterday, I don't have a problem with the couple in Missouri who were defending their private property with guns.

I did have questions about whether the protestors had trespassed into a private neighborhood, and someone clarified that they did.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yeah, that someone was me. Several times, in fact.

Recall that DOL and chemjeff were having a shitfit and equating private property with an HOA.

[The White Knight]

Yes, I don't always agree with De Oppresso Liber and chemjeff. It's almost like we aren't all the same person. 🙂

[Longtobefree]

I assume Twitter promptly deleted his account?

[Freddy the Jerk]

What the fuck does Cato have to do with "libertarians"?

[Freddy the Jerk]

Just noted you commend about him being a past contributor here, so the question's also: What the fuck does "Reason" have to do with libertarians?

[sarcasmic]

There once was a man from Peru
Who fell asleep in his canoe
While dreaming of Venus
And playing with his penis
He woke up with a handful of goo

[Ra's al Gore]

Best comment ever. Shut down the bboard.

[StackOfCoins]

Just a reminder there is no reference to abortion in the Constitution. The federal government meddling in abortion is what's unconstitutional. But by all means, carry water for people who want to terminate human life. It's so... not libertarian, that's for sure.

[John]

No there is not. And not even abortion advocates defend the substance of Roe. The decision was a complete mess and total bullshit.

The feds have no business governing abortion. It is exactly the sort of contentious moral issue that the Founders wisely wanted left to the states.

[I, Woodchipper]

Exactly. Abortion regulation, and EVERY other regulation of food, medicine, drugs, surgery, or other procedures you undertake upon your own person are entirely unconstitutional.

And also non-libertarian in a philosophical sense.

[John]

They are entirely constitutional if done by the states. The Constitution is not a libertarian document and only with regard to the federal government to the extent that it is.

[StackOfCoins]

This. The states can and should be free to set their own rules on abortion and a host of other matters not covered in the Constitution.

[Dillinger]

>>not libertarian

word.

[Roberta]

I remember Thomas's opinion being to go along with stare decisis shortly after the Raich ruling, saying that it was obvious the court felt in such-and-such a way about interstate commerce even though he'd been on the other side.

[Dillinger]

maoists maoists everywhere ... my football team hardest hit

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/kansas-state-players-announce-boycott-of-program-in-wake-of-offensive-social-media-post-by-student/

[John]

More like dipshits being used as cannon fodder. Just exactly what do these dumb asses think they are going to do if not play football at KState? Do they think they would be admitted to college much less get it for free if they didn't play football?

They are going to keep fucking around and end up ruining college and professional football. And the people who will suffer for that will be primarily black athletes who no longer have a path towards going to college and possibly making seven figures in the NFL. Rest assured the activists pushing this don't give a flying fuck about football, KState, or the athletes they are manipulating. All they do is destroy things and move onto something else leaving everyone else to pay the consequences.

[Dillinger]

>>Just exactly what do these dumb asses think they are going to do if not play football at KState?

Coach Kleiman would do the players a better service to teach them other people's opinions do not affect their ability to play ball.

[Trigger Warning]

Libertarians in favor of indiscriminate, a la carte baby murder must love Roberts so fucking much right now.

[The New Number Two]

Hey, that's a conservative justice you're talking about. Never mind that he sides with Court progressives every time it matters.

[Uncle Jay]

America needs more abortions.
How else are we going to tell the world how much we love our children if we don't butcher them in the womb?

[The White Knight]

What about if it's an embryo that hasn't formed a nervous system yet? Do you view that act as butchering a child?

[Jack Johnson]

Alexandra Nunez, Karnamaya Mongar, Ying Chen, Jennifer Morbelli, Maria Santiago and Lakisha Wilson applaud this huge win for their human rights. Imagine, requiring abortion providers to comply with the same regulations as every other medical care provider. What kind of insanity is that!

[Dillinger]

also long live Carl Reiner.

[The White Knight]

"THE LONE WARRIOR!"

Really, WTF. Sorry, but Orange Man is plainly bonkers.