The FBI's Infamous List of 'Known Terrorists' Is Ruled Unconstitutional
Plus: millennials are buying homes after all, protecting Pinterest from anti-vaxxers, and more...

Due process prevails? We may finally be seeing an end to George W. Bush-era security theater embodied in the FBI's abysmally flawed terrorist watchlist. On Wednesday, a federal judge ruled that the official Terrorist Screening Database—a list that has grown to more than 1 million "known or suspected terrorists," including thousands of American citizens—was unconstitutional.
"There is no evidence, or contention, that any of these plaintiffs satisfy the definition of a 'known terrorist,'" wrote Judge Anthony J. Trenga of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia. His decision echoes what civil liberties groups, Muslim Americans, libertarians, and others have been saying for nearly two decades.
"An individual's placement into the [database] does not require any evidence that the person engaged in criminal activity, committed a crime, or will commit a crime in the future," the judge pointed out.
The ruling is in response to a lawsuit brought by 23 American citizens, all Muslim, who had been included on the list. "Trenga noted that the list restricts their ability to fly and engage in everyday activities and backed the plaintiffs' concerns that they were flagged secretly and without a clear methodology," reports The Washington Post.
Read the judge's full decision here.
The plaintiffs were represented by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), whose executive director, Nihad Awad, said the "secretive watchlist" has effectively been "a Muslim registry created in the wake of the widespread Islamophobia of the early 2000s."
"CAIR has a half-dozen other watchlist cases pending in federal courts across the country, and this opinion will pave the wave for our continued victories," CAIR National Litigation Director Lena Masri said in a statement.
Gadeir Abbas, a senior litigation attorney for CAIR, said that "every step of this case revealed new layers of government secrets, including that the government shares the watchlist with private companies and more than sixty foreign countries. CAIR will continue its fight until the full scope of the government's shadowy watchlist activities is disclosed to the American public."
FREE MINDS
Section 230 makes it possible for Pinterest to weed out anti-vaccine content. Mike Masnick of Techdirt explains:
A key argument by many who are advocating for getting rid of Section 230 is that various internet platforms need to "take more responsibility" or have some sort of "duty of care," to rid their platforms of malicious content (however that's defined). I even heard one staunch anti-Section 230 advocate complain vocally that internet services "aren't experimenting enough" with policing their platforms. The argument that there's not enough experimentation struck me as quite odd -- because if you look around, there's actually a ton of experimentation going on in platform moderation methods and techniques. And, even more weird, is that most of this experimentation is only possible because of Section 230.
Take the case of Pinterest. While Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and Amazon have all struggled with ways to deal with the influx of utter nonsense—much of which is actively dangerous—Pinterest earlier this year announced that it was taking a hardline stance against anti-vax nonsense, banning it from the site, as best it could.
More here.
FREE MARKETS
Millennials aren't that different after all. For years, we've had to endure media and marketing-consultant driven concern about millennials "killing" various industries and abandoning traditional trappings of adulthood. Non-hysterics pointed out that many of these things could be explained by generational timeline differences—more millennials attend college and graduate school, choices that lead them to delay marriage and childbearing; while the recession ruined early job prospects for older and middle millennials, making major investments difficult. Given time, they said, these stunted millennials would like their older counterparts. Lately, we've seen signs that the cool heads were indeed right.
The latest: It turns out millennials aren't over homeownership, after all. "They may have waited longer than previous generations, but millennials are now showing a strong desire to become homeowners, especially older millennials," reports CNBC.
FOLLOW UP
In case you had better things to do last night… This thread from Vox energy reporter David Roberts offers a great recap of the highlights and lowlights from the six-hour climate-change town hall on CNN.:
https://twitter.com/drvox/status/1169363833141379072
QUICK HITS
- Kamala Harris said she is in favor of a nationwide ban on plastic straws but—in a rare moment of truth-telling—admitted that the paper ones are awful. "Look, I'm going to be honest… It's really difficult to drink out of a paper straw… so we kinda have to perfect that a little bit more."
- MAGA grifter Jacob Wohl is facing felony charges in California for allegedly selling "unqualified securities in violation of California [law]."
- The more things change:
When I was a child, milkmen seemed like quaint storybook characters of the past. Now my son thinks the milkmen in old books work for Amazon……like of course someone brings milk to your door
— Adriana Porter Felt (@__apf__) September 5, 2019
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
"Kamala Harris said she is in favor of a nationwide ban on plastic straws"
Yeah, well, she's still better from a libertarian POV than any Republican on immigration and abortion access. Priorities!
#LibertariansForHarris
#ImmigrationAboveAll
#(WithAbortionACloseSecond)
Hello.
CAIR.
Lol.
Wait, what happened to Tulsi?
This is a perfect example of why I am fed up with the press.
All of these politicians at all levels espousing support for (and voting for) bans on plastic straws.
A competent reporter would ask - why?
And when they said "because of the plastic in the ocean", a competent reporter would ask: How is this ban going to help?
And when they give a non-answer about every little bit helps, you ask "how, precisely, is banning plastic straws in Chicago Illinois going to help the plastic accumulation in the great pacific gyre?
And on and on. Continue asking the basic questions - how? Why? etc. until you expose the end of their knowledge. For most it will end with the bumper sticker. But some will tell you something revealing. Either way, you get the real story.
But no, we ask them "how about your evil republican opponent? Isn't he evil?" Or "I see that you have a 6 point lead over your Democrat opponent. Are you worried that the race is getting tighter?"
The 4th estate is an abomination these days. Which is stunning in an era when there are hundreds of outlets for reporting that didn't exist a generation ago.
Recession risks rise for Germany as industrial orders plunge
This is Trump's fault of course.
Paul Krugman foretold a global recession. Germany is on the globe. So yeah, Drumpf gets the blame.
#KrugmanWasRight
Hahaha #KrugmanPredicted48OfTheLast2Recessions
"#KrugmanWasRight"
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
A 24-hour clock is only right once.
A broken 24-hour clock is right 24 times a day!
You just keep forgetting to move it to the right time zone.
A “servant class” that serves the needs of the country’s top one percent is among one of the fastest-growing job markets in the United States, economic analysis finds.
Trump's fault, I'm sure.
It turns out millennials aren't over homeownership, after all. "They may have waited longer than previous generations, but millennials are now showing a strong desire to become homeowners, especially older millennials," reports CNBC.
You mean now that they have money and can afford to buy a house, they are buying houses? That is the darnedest thing. What next? They sue their non-vegan neighbors for grilling pork chops outside?
Biden's eye fills with blood during CNN climate town hall
If this isn't trump's fault, I don't know what could be.
He's got blood coming out of wherever.
Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and does not die.
-Loveconstitution1789
You're not popular with the wymen, are you.
When I was a child, milkmen seemed like quaint storybook characters of the past. Now my son thinks the milkmen in old books work for Amazon……like of course someone brings milk to your door
And that son looks suspiciously like the Amazon delivery driver.
Oh, you just...forgot...that you ordered something.
His father listened from the door as the boy said "God bless mommy, God bless Daddy, God Bless Grandma, goodbye grandpa" The next day the family awoke to found the grandpa dead, but brushed it off as an awful coincidence. A few days go by and the boy is saying his prayer "God bless mommy, God bless Daddy, goodbye Grandma." Sure enough the next day she is dead, and the father is starting to really freak out. A week goes by and the boy is saying his prayers "God bless mommy, goodbye Daddy" The next day the father wakes up, goes to work, and stresses the entire day about his fate. When he gets home he is upset and wants to console with his wife. She is also upset and he asks what wrong. She says "You'll never believe what happened today the milkman came to deliver the milk and dropped dead right on the doorstep"
You should have left our wives alone, Mr UPS man. Now let's go for a drive.
"Our primary mission is to save a life": Coast Guard rescues dozens after Dorian devastates the Bahamas
Any bets on whether the MSM says this American humanitarian assistance to the Bahamians is Trump's fault.
Whatever we send, it isn't enough. Just like every other handout.
What is it Johnny Rocco wants?
Rocco: "More. That's it. More!!!"
a list that has grown to more than 1 million "known or suspected terrorists," including thousands of American citizens—was unconstitutional.
Thousands of American citizens... pshaw. San Francisco just declared all NRA members terrorists.
Trade San Francisco for Hong Kong. The CCP and San Francisco. Talk about two groups that deserve each other
Yes! Speaking for all us white supremacists, give them Oakland and Portland, too. We get also get Macau
And Shang Hi.
Nothing says white supremacy like wanting to make millions of Asians citizens
LOL, remember the Left considers Asians to be white, or as bad as anyway.
Chuck the shmuck just came out for Trump:
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/schumer-says-pushing-gop-on-gun-control-will-be-top-dem-priority/
"Look, I'm going to be honest… It's really difficult to drink out of a paper straw… so we kinda have to perfect that a little bit more."
They're just not killing enough trees to get it right.
Harris prefers the flesh variety.
Convince pencil makers to make wooden straws. 🙂
This branch takes the cake as the US military’s fattest
Fat floats better. If my ship sank, I would want a bit more fat to survive easier.
Fat also insulates better than muscle, so you'll survive longer in the water too.
On Wednesday, a federal judge ruled that the official Terrorist Screening Database—a list that has grown to more than 1 million "known or suspected terrorists," including thousands of American citizens—was unconstitutional.
THIS OBAMA-APPOINTED JUDGE (one assumes) JUST HANDED THE WAR ON TERROR TO THE TERRORISTS.
I am sure all government officials involved in Defaming Americans have some Qualified Immunity.
Don't worry, Fist. Hihn still maintains a list of terrorists.
I was so ecstatic to make his list.
Nope. Appointed by George W. Bush in 2008.
Strange that the watch list cruised right through all eight years of Obama's term before getting removed by a Republican-appointed judge during a Republican administration.
Were there previous challenges for them to consider? Maybe the ACLU et al have been snoozing on this one.
They wanted to use the most to stop gun sales.
To be fair, the list is only "suspected terrorists". Of course, the government is might suspicious.
The CNN Climate circle jerk was a pay-to-watch event?? LOL!
How many of the candidates biked to the event?
Limos or GTFOH.
Up here, the Jerk-Off Minister and Climate Barbie are infamous for jet setting on the taxpayer dime while racking up alcohol bills. Wooo!
And Canadians are too apathetic to care hence I'm not confident he'll get the boot up this corrupted, incompetent ass he richly deserves.
Thousands to attend BBQ outside home of vegan who sued neighbors over smelly meats
Throw another ton of shrimp on the barbie, mate!
"Thousands of people are roasting an Australian vegan who took her neighbors to court over the smell of meat and fish from their barbecue — by planning a massive cookout outside her home."
Speaking as vegan, good for them and shame on her!
Austrian, eh?
?
More bad economic news.
Charles Koch current net worth: $59.0 billion
Imagine how angry you'd be if you lost $354. Well, Koch has lost $354 million this year. In fact, 3 of the top 10 richest people on the planet have seen their net worths decline YTD.
#DrumpfRecession
#VoteDemocratToHelpCharlesKoch
Wow, you seriously don't know how the market works, do you?
I'll bet that doesn't include the $25 bn he inherited from his brother. /s
"Look, I'm going to be honest… It's really difficult to drink out of a paper straw… so we kinda have to perfect that a little bit more."
If anybody knows how to suck, it's Kamala.
Brutal
Bernie Sanders tells crying baby to keep it down
He would send Americans to gulags for less.
Angry old man yells
He also came out FOR abortion to combat climate change.
Mind you, next to Beto, he's sane and sensible.
He does kind of look and act like Grandpa Simpson.
He's the only Democrat Presidential candidate *hoping* for someone to get through his Secret Service detail.
Anne Ramsey in Throw Momma From The Train. Without the charisma. Bernie really is an angry, bitter, hateful old codger.
Alan Greenspan says it’s ‘only a matter of time’ before negative rates spread to the US
This from the guy that helped set up the Great Recession through federal reserve economic policy.
On Wednesday, a federal judge ruled that the official Terrorist Screening Database—a list that has grown to more than 1 million "known or suspected terrorists," including thousands of American citizens—was unconstitutional.
The NSA's database of 7.5 billion unknown terrorists is still good, though, so we got that going for us.
Harris wants to ban all straws. Buttigieg wants to launch some kind of creepy war on the climate, Yang wants to ban and confiscate everyone’s cars, and Sanders wants to subsidize abortion overseas to reduce the population of undesirable brown people (yet somehow Trump is the white nationalist).
These people have gone full retard.
I've lost track at their retardation.
They don't believe in gender biology but yet there's a patriarchy to smash. Just read anything by Amanda Marcotte and how she subsequently argues her inane points.
She and her ilk qualify as Dark Age.
No seriously. I gave up - and this is what they want.
Sociopaths who believe in their shtick have boundless energy.
Calling it a Dark Age is an insult to the Dark Ages. People who sacrificed children to the Gods would Be appalled by this kind of stupidity
It's not even Stone Age. These people not only want to see a return to a hunter-gatherer society, they regret that human beings developed the opposable thumb.
Harris wants to limit what you can eat, what your home thermostat is set at, etc. Hitler wasn't as overwhelmingly dictatorial as Willie Brown's side piece is.
Stalin would blush from the nerve of these lunatics
US service member killed in Kabul suicide car bomb attack
Uncle Sam really needs to pull out of that shithole.
I don't mean Hillary's mouth....
*drops mic
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/u-s-confirms-cash-offer-to-tanker-captains-to-seize-iranian-vessels/
Letters of Marque baby!!
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
This is classic "n"th D Chess by Trump and advisors. It's fucking genius.
Iran will only send out ships with all crew having their family held hostage next time.
These Are The Military Projects Losing Funding To Trump's Border Wall
National Propaganda Radio at it again.
The funniest part besides reason staff ignoring this story to cry is that Trump is pulling funding from Democrat run state of Virginia to fund a military project that is border security.
Virginia Democratic Sens. Tim Kaine and Mark Warner slammed the move, saying their state alone will lose more than $77 million in planned construction projects. In all, four military projects will be impacted in Virginia.
Trump targeting the funds perfectly.
NPR finds military spending it can support for the first time in history
If you ever needed convincing that people will believe (actually honestly believe) anything they want to, the last 3 years should have done it.
The Wall is one such revealing issue.
I can see being opposed to the wall as ineffectual or wasteful spending. That's at least an argument.
But being opposed to it because it is hate? WTF? Or because being against illegal immigration is racist? Are you insane?
Being passionately against building a wall is nuts. You could oppose the wall casually while strongly supporting increases in legal immigration - that would make sense. Hell, you could even support the wall while supporting increased immigration quotas - or even the elimination of quotas. That would be perfectly consistent. In fact, an absence of quotas would mean that the wall would only be there to interdict illegal movement like smugglers, human trafficking, terrorist and criminal crossings.... Sounds like a win-win.
But no... we are opposed to a wall because people opposed to illegal immigration want it. And we don't like them. So we are against it.
That's just nakedly stupid. And everyone at very smart places like the NYT, NPR, ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. actually, really, positively believes that building a border wall is an abomination before goddess. Because orange man bad.
People in large groups are very scary.
Yes they are.
Gold prices drop following strong rise in U.S. ADP Employment Data
wait, wait, wait... Why would gold prices drop if the US economy is IMPLODING?
And the media claims Trump violated the law by releasing BLS numbers early...except he as referring to ADP figures that had come out before his tweets.
If the media dislikes Trump because he "lies", then how much must they loathe themselves?
To leftists and the media (but I repeat myself) Trump is some sort of demon, in that he does everything evil. If they actually believed in Christianity, they'd say he's the Antichrist from the Bible.
You don't have to speculate on that. Hitler is their Antichrist from the bible. And they all believe he is literally worse than Hitler.
Being a leftist requires you to have built in self hatred. It's an entire movement based on the idea that the individual cannot succeed without the group guiding everything you do.
it's self-loathing all the way down
More evidence that Democrats, despite their rhetoric, are actually the pro-business, pro-billionaire party now.
The day after tonight's climate forum, Joe Biden will head to a fundraiser hosted by a fossil fuel executive
#LibertariansForBiden
So, in the early 2000's it was completely irrational to be concerned about Muslims infiltrating Western couentries and committing mass murder in the name of Islam?
Interesting theory, CAIR.
Look, some people did some things. So what does that have to do with Muslims???
it must have been, the NSA, CIA and FBI ignored their field agents in Phoenix, Minneapolis and Oklahoma who stumbled across the plot.
"Look, I'm going to be honest… It's really difficult to drink out of a paper straw… so we kinda have to perfect that a little bit more."
We have. It's called a "plastic" straw.
Fuck off, slaver.
"WE must sacrifice more trees to create unrecyclable stuff nobody wants...FOR THE ENVIRONMENT!"
I wonder when Reason will comment on the Dem town hall last night. For libertarians, I'd have assumed it was a horror show of proposals but Reason seems OK with it.
I was OK with it... because I worked with my kids on their schoolwork and music practice. Missed the whole thing!
"Some sectors warn that AB5 could hurt workers, raise prices"
[...]
"...Newspapers and other media: Daily print publications, including The Chronicle, use independent contractors to deliver papers to homes and businesses. Most work a few hours in the morning. Providing them with benefits, which can add up to 30% to labor costs, could be prohibitive for newspapers, which already operate on razor-thin margins, said Jim Ewert, general counsel of the California News Publishers Association, of which The Chronicle is a member."
https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Some-sectors-warn-that-AB5-could-hurt-workers-14414684.php?cmpid=gsa-sfgate-result
The Chron's ox is about to be gored, so the editorial staff now has second thoughts about backing this SEIU give-away.
BTW, the law is *so* screwed, they are going to attempt to list which professions are exempt, one-by-one (it's in the link)
Why not just go ahead and say "businesses that contribute heavily to the democrat party are exempt. Businesses that contribute to the Republican party are not. "
Much more succinct and to the point, and open to interpretation as needed.
Harry Reid thinks only democrats can use executive orders.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/harry-reid-only-a-democratic-president-can-issue-a-proper-executive-order
A fascinating piece just came out from Real Clear Investigations about the Russian Collusion hoax containing some new information I never heard before:
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/09/05/why_was_the_fbi_incurious_about_a_hot_collusion_tip_involving_this_man_120181.html
Apparently Glenn Simpson implies to the FBI that he had evidence that Rick Wilson was somehow involved. The Bureau never so much as contacted Wilson. Gee, I wonder why.
It's also funny that he's claiming Wilson worked FOR Trump. I guess they REALLY didn't want to cast doubt on that dossier.
RCI is one of the best sites out currently.
"There is no evidence, or contention, that any of these plaintiffs satisfy the definition of a 'known terrorist,'" wrote Judge Anthony J. Trenga
"That's a classified matter of National Security, Your Honor -- DUH!!"
http://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1169264717401116672?s=21
David Frum explains why he doesn’t carry a gun in his purse.
"many of us are prone to panic in unexpected situations"
Name names, Dave, so the government can give those poor people the help they so obviously need.
Remember, these are the ELITES who we should ALLOW to rule us. Because they, unlike us, got their shit together.
Mind you, I have a hurricane hitting and I'm at work noting that the weather ain't doing shit.
One of the reasons we should not let people carry deadly weapons around town with them: many of us are prone to panic in unexpected situations - and might respond to a purse-snatching by opening poorly aimed fire and likely maiming half a dozen unfortunate passers-by
Oh, come on, he's obviously trolling the NYPD and the gun-grabbers who claim that only cops can be trusted with guns.
Right? He is trolling, isn't he? I mean, nobody can possibly be that damn stupid on purpose.
It is David Frum. He really is this stupid. And it is horrifying
And he votes!
But no need to ever enforce the law against Google.
http://www.ft.com/content/e3e1697e-ce57-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f
Gosh, I'm old enough to remember the milkman. My house didn't have milk delivery, we got fresh milk from the grocer and a nice fridge to keep it fresh. But a neighbor got a daily delivery of milk. Six glass bottles in a nice little wire cage. From a dairy only five miles away.
Gawd I feel so old.
And the milkman always took his 1/2 hour break at that house?
SNL did a skit called "in the future" once, as in "in the future, milk will be delivered fresh daily to your door, in reusable containers".
Kavanaugh accuser's lawyer said allegations could help undermine abortion rulings: 'Part of what motivated Christine'
Oops!
I'm glad Reason took her "credible" claims so seriously.
Can you believe these morons who write here have ALWAYS described her insane ramblings as "credible" accusations?
I used to think it was for easier access to cocktail parties but now its pretty clear they took the blue pill
I think it used to actually be the cocktail parties until the Progressitarian invasion a few years ago.
Wow, what's happened to this place.
Hi, j. Uh, huh.
Hurricane Donald happened. A category 11 storm that overturned absolutely everything in its path and forever altered the landscape.
The coming of Obama caused most of the liberals to run off rather than spend 8 years defending the indefensible. The coming of Trump just broke a good number of the pox on both houses types.
Please to tell: in what respect?
Memo to Judge Anthony J. Trenga of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia & terror sponsoring CAIR: See you in Appellate Court.
Judges don't always get it right. That is a fact.
"Section 230 makes it possible for Pinterest to weed out anti-vaccine content."
Replace 'anti-vaccine content' with any other idea that has ever been deemed 'fringe' and this statement becomes less of a pro-section-230 argument then the author thinks.
I was working in the internet industry back when Section 230 was put in place. At the time, it was about enabling free speech by indemnifying those hosting defacto public squares. Now, somehow, it has become a license for them to purge viewpoints they disagree with regardless of any prior contracts. Unintended consequences...
Does Reason not know that libertarianism is one INCREDIBLY fringe theory?
Do they think that libertarianism is safe from this nonsense?
This is a very salient point.
Sure, they are going for the far right fringe at the moment... folks like Alex Jones and the Storm Front Weather Underground or whatever those white supremacist dudes call themselves.
But the left hates them some Koch brothers. Make no mistake, if they get this internet censor thing up and running at full capacity, they'll put Reason right in that memory hole with all the other "undesirables". We'll have all viewpoints, everything from Vox to Jezebel. Maddow to Marcotte. And everyone will be extra careful to be seen properly supporting the right ideas, lest they get washed down the memory hole with them.
weed out SPLC identified hate speech...
weed out anti-government conspiracy theories...
week out anti-science climate denialists...
etc.
"FREE MINDS
Section 230 makes it possible for Pinterest to weed out anti-vaccine content. "
Libertarians for crony capitalist liability exemptions and silencing unbelievers!
"FREE MINDS"
Is this the same terrorist watch list that the anti-gun to use as a basis for denying firearm purchases?
http://www.quora.com/Should-people-on-the-terrorist-watch-list-be-required-to-wear-a-distinctive-badge-on-their-left-sleeve-when-out-in-public
I'm glad the known terrorist list is deemed unconstitutional.
Now law enforcement will have tons of fun guessing who is a terrorist and who isn't.
See you at the airport.