Drug War

Did the Couple Killed by Houston Narcs Know Who the Armed Intruders Were?

Police Chief Art Acevedo seems to think cops cannot be shot in self-defense.

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F. Carter Smith / News Splash / Newscom

The trail leading to the bungled drug raid that killed a middle-aged couple at their home in Houston on Monday began with a January 8 phone call from an anonymous woman who claimed to be standing outside the house and looking through a window. The woman told police "her daughter was in the house, and there were guns and heroin," Houston Police Chief Art Acevedo said at a press conference yesterday.

Two patrol officers dispatched to the house could not find the caller, but they reported that they heard another woman who was walking down the street say "the police are at the dope house" while talking on a cellphone. The officers called the woman who made the complaint. "She stated she did not want to give any information because they were drug dealers and they would kill her," Acevedo said. "She wanted the officers to go into the house and get her daughter."

The officers explained that they had no authority to do that, but they shared the information with the Houston Police Department's Narcotics Division, which began an investigation on January 11. The investigation included a "controlled buy" by a confidential informant who reported seeing a 9mm semi-automatic pistol and "a large quantity of plastic baggies" containing black-tar heroin at the house on Sunday.

Police found neither of those things when they searched the house the next day after breaking down the door and setting off a shootout in which Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas were killed and five officers were injured. Acevedo said there was no heroin, just "small amounts" of cocaine and marijuana. And contrary to the anonymous complainant's description of Tuttle and Nicholas as scary, bloodthirsty drug dealers, neither had any criminal record to speak of, and both were described by neighbors as "wonderful people" who "never bothered anybody." Police did not know any of that before the raid, despite an investigation that supposedly spanned two weeks. They did not even know the suspects' names before they charged into the house, where Tuttle and Nicholas had lived for more than two decades.

Acevedo had no explanation for why police did not find the drug that was the justification for the search, even though the house supposedly was under surveillance by narcotics officers between the controlled buy and the raid. As for the disappearing pistol, Acevedo implausibly speculated that the C.I. might not have been familiar enough with firearms to know the difference between a 9mm semi-automatic and a .357 Magnum revolver, the only handgun police found.

Despite his repeated promises of "transparency" and "accountability," Acevedo was also hazy on the crucial point of whether Tuttle knew that the armed men breaking into his house, whose first action after entering was to kill his dog with a shotgun, were police officers. Narcotics officers executing search warrants "don't show up in uniform," Acevedo said, "but they do show up with plenty of gear that identifies them as police officers, including patrol officers that are out in front of the house."

Patrol officers outside the house do not give people inside the house notice that the men breaching their door and killing their dog are cops, and it's not clear what other "gear" Acevedo had in mind. But since the plainclothes officers who burst into the house did so without warning, "announcing" themselves at the same moment they were breaking down the door, it would not be surprising if Tuttle missed that announcement and any other clues to their identity.

Body camera video of the raid might have helped clarify this issue, but there is none. "Body-worn cameras are still a pretty new technology," Acevedo said. "Over the last two or three years, we've been deploying them. Our priority was to get body-worn cameras into the hands of the people that are most prone and most likely to be involved in a use-of-force or a response-to-resistance incident or a complaint….The majority of the incidents involve patrol, so that's been our priority."

Acevedo suggested that if the department does eventually find the money to equip narcotics officers with body cameras, "the likelihood that we won't land on 'we're going to have body-worn cameras' is pretty slim for search warrants…because most of the times we're going to be doing the right things and we want to capture that." That sentence is a bit hard to parse, but the gist is that Acevedo thinks recording police when they serve drug warrants in people's homes makes sense as a way of showing they did everything properly—or not, as the case may be. It's just that the Houston Police Department has not gotten around to it yet.

Without a video record, we can only go by the official police account of what happened inside the house. But even based on that account, it is plausible that Tuttle reasonably thought he was acting in self-defense when he shot the man who had just broken into his house and killed his dog. Likewise when police fatally shot his wife as she was trying to disarm the wounded gunman, at which point Tuttle returned fire with his revolver. Whatever announcement the officers made as they were entering could easily have been lost amid the noise, confusion, and shotgun blasts.

"Officers, when they execute search warrants,…are making split-second decisions in many cases," Acevedo said, "and then we spend weeks, if not months, if not years, scrutinizing every piece of that." What about the split-second decisions that a homeowner has to make when people break into his house, kill his dog, and shoot his wife? Tuttle, unlike the officers who killed him, was not a trained police professional. Perhaps he deserves the benefit of the doubt, especially since he is not around to defend himself.

On Monday night, when a reporter asked if any of the officers had been hit by "friendly fire," Acevedo was indignant. "We don't suspect anybody of being struck by friendly fire," he said. "I don't expect [it], because our people are really well-trained, even though in these very dynamic situations that certainly can happen. But if an officer was shot by friendly fire, the only people responsible under the law and morally are the people inside that residence who decided to take shots at police officers executing a lawful search warrant." That analysis, of course, assumes that Tuttle knew the men confronting him were "police officers executing a lawful search warrant," and it's not at all clear he did.

To his credit, Acevedo rebuked Joe Gamaldi, president of the Houston Police Officers Union, for his "over-the-top" remarks on Monday night, when he nonsensically blamed "the ones that are out there spreading the rhetoric that police officers are the enemy" for the injuries suffered by his fellow officers. "Joe Gamaldi's emotions got the best of him," Acevedo said. "I came this close to yanking him off there because it took us all by surprise. It was over the top….This [incident] had nothing to do with any of the stuff that he was talking about."

The Houston Police Department and the Harris County District Attorney's Office are continuing to investigate the drug raid, and they will ultimately decide whether the officers acted legally and properly. Acevedo said he had promised Tuttle's brother "to seek the truth…regardless of what that truth is." One truth already seems clear: This violence was pointless and readily avoidable.

NEXT: Remember 'T-Bone,' Cory Booker's Imaginary Drug Dealer Friend?

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  1. Is it possible they were actually looking for Dennis ‘Buttle’?

    1. Information Transit got to wrong man. The police got the right man. The ‘wrong man’ was delivered to them as the ‘right man.’ They accepted him on good faith as the ‘right man.’ Were they wrong?

    2. Brasil!
      Meu Brasil Brasileiro
      Mulato inzoneiro
      Vou cantar-te nos meus versos
      Brasil, samba que d?
      Bamboleio, que faz gingar
      O Brasil do meu amor
      Terra de Nosso Senhor…

      Abre a cortina do passado
      Tira a m?e preta do cerrado
      Bota o rei congo no congado
      Canta de novo o trovador
      A merenc?ria ? luz da lua
      Toda can??o do seu amor
      Quero ver essa dona caminhando
      Pelos sal?es arrastando
      O seu vestido rendado…

      Esse coqueiro que d? coco
      Oi! Onde amarro minha rede
      Nas noites claras de luar
      Por essas fontes murmurantes
      Onde eu mato a minha sede
      Onde a lua vem brincar
      Esse Brasil lindo e trigueiro
      ? o meu Brasil Brasileiro
      Terra de samba e pandeiro…

      Oi! Essas fontes murmurantes
      Onde eu mato a minha sede
      Onde a lua vem brincar
      Esse Brasil lindo e trigueiro
      ? o meu Brasil Brasileiro
      Terra de samba e pandeiro
      Brasil!

      1. Let’s just run that through Google Translate:

        Brazil!
        My Brazilian Brazil
        Mulato Inzoneiro
        I will sing you in my verses
        Brazil, samba giving
        Bamboleio, that makes gingar
        Brazil of my love
        Land of Our Lord …

        Open the curtain of the past
        Get the black mother from the cerrado
        Boot or king congo not congado
        The troubadour sings again
        The Mermaid in the Light of the Moon
        Every song of your love
        I want to see this lady walking
        By dragging halls
        Your lacy dress …

        This Coconut Coconut
        Hi! Where I tie my net
        On clear moonlight nights
        By these murmuring sources
        Where I kill my thirst
        Where the moon comes to play
        This beautiful and brown Brazil
        It is my Brazilian Brazil.
        Land of samba and tambourine …

        Hi! These murmuring sources
        Where I kill my thirst
        Where the moon comes to play
        This beautiful and brown Brazil
        It is my Brazilian Brazil.
        Land of samba and tambourine
        Brazil!

  2. They won’t do anything to them and nothing will change.

  3. “Our priority was to get body-worn cameras into the hands of the people that are most prone and most likely to be involved in a use-of-force or a response-to-resistance incident or a complaint”

    …and that doesn’t include drug cops executing a no-knock warrant based on a specific representation that the suspects are armed and dangerous drug dealers?

    1. The officers involved in this raid were not even wearing uniforms. So, no it clearly doesn’t include them.

      And come on. The Chief had never heard of body cameras. You can’t expect him to know about every new development can you?

      1. He’s been too busy learning about this new sex trafficking issue and figuring out ways to make that increase his budget.

      2. The suspects had to have known they were cops when they shot his dog. Who the hell else does that?

      3. let’s break down this guys down without knocking and how about not be in uniform as well.

        who thought this would be a good idea

  4. They did not even know the suspects’ names before they charged into the house, where Tuttle and Nicholas had lived for more than two decades.

    Officers, when they execute search warrants,?are making split-second decisions in many cases,” Acevedo said, “and then we spend weeks, if not months, if not years, scrutinizing every piece of that.”

    1. They got a tip from an informant, wrote up a warrant application, went to a judge, and then 48 hours after the tip, kicked in the door. It was all split second. They had no time to do any planning or verrifying of the information the informant gave them. It was just split second.

      1. You can’t wait. That black tar heroin man – its got a mind of its own. It’ll escape and destroy lives if not contained ASAP.

    2. When a trained law enforcement officer with situational awareness kills a citizen by mistake, it’s “Oh well, shit happens.”

      When a citizen, taken completely by surprise, kills a law enforcement officer by mistake, it’s first-degree murder deserving the death penalty.

  5. The more cops that get shot and killed breaking the law and violating the Constitution, the more cops that will think twice before invading innocent people’s homes.

    This could have all been prevented if cops knocked on the door to serve their bad warrant. It could have been straightened out peacefully.

    1. Cops are addicted to power. Kicking in doors and automatically killing anything that moves is power. Doing it by mistake and getting away with it is power on a whole different level.

    2. The more cops that get shot and killed breaking the law and violating the Constitution, the more they’ll demand ? and freedom-hating politicians will hasten to give them ? authority to use more force to suppress any possibility of resistance.

      1. Nothing a .50 BMG rifle cant fix.

    3. Noope, the more cops get shot the more they ratchet up the violence in an (supposedly logical attempt) to save their own lives in future encounters.

      They just don’t get it that their initiating violence is quite often what gets them killed (in raids such as these).

  6. If no-knock warrants are good enough for Manafort and Stone, they are good enough for these cop-killing druggies.

  7. I will be very surprised if the poor victim in this case managed to shoot anyone. I bet it turns out all five of the cops were shot by othe cops who went berserk and started shooting. That is how it works in every one of these cases.

    Beyond that, if this guy managed to be surprised in his home by armed men, somehow get his gun and then under heavy fire that just killed his dog and his wife managed get off five rounds at all much less get five hits, he was an Audy Murphy level bad ass. I seriously doubt that. I bet he didn’t get a single shot off and those apes not only murdered him, they shot each other.

  8. I’m lazy so I am not going to find another link to his immediate press conference, but according to Townhall Acevedo said this:

    When asked about gun control, he said, “Crooks are gonna be crooks. The question is what are we in society and what are elected officials gonna do to help make it tough on those crooks?”

    Because of the large Hispanic population of the area in which the crime took place, Acevedo was asked about the relationships between his department and the community.

    “We don’t care about your immigration status,” he replied. “Because we rely on them, they’re witnesses…”

    He also preemptively responded to those who disagree with his stance.

    “The person that’s selling [drugs] to the immigrant community today is selling it to the blue-blooded, blue-eyed, blonde-haired community members tomorrow. And guess what? The life that saves the life of one of your loved ones when people come forward and trust us to take action.”

    Cop gonna cop.

    1. They have absolutely no evidence these people were doing anything illegal beyond the word of a criminal informant. But he is sure they are “crooks”. Christ what an asshole.

      1. Don’t forget that before the perjury by the CI, there was an anonymous complaint from “a neighbor’. And oh by the way, that neighbor has a drug abusing child. Not a chance in a million this was twisted payback for a fence fight.

        1. Shit bag teenager gets into it with neighbors. Said shitbag is then pinched by the cops for possession and to get out of it tells the cops he got the drugs at the neighbors.

          That sounds about right.

        2. All the neighbors seem to have loved them.

  9. Well, drug dealer or innocent sacrifice to law and order, if he “injured” five cops with a six shot revolver in a sudden and high stress situation, he was a damn fine marksman.

    Kind of reminds me of the Branch Davidian fiasco. Local sheriff makes multiple visits to the compound, following up on citizen reports of machine gun fire. He arrives in daylight, driving a marked patrol car, wearing full uniform, and knocks on the front door. the door is answered, and a civil discussion follows, showing that all weapons are semi-automatic, but several members were practicing at the range and it might have sounded to the untrained ear like a machine gun. Nice and normal relationship between law enforcement and civilians.
    Then the damn fool feds crawl through a window in the middle of the night, and surprise! the residents repel the home invasion. So the feds have to admit to being idiots, or escalate the situation and kill everybody in sight.

    1. Well, drug dealer or innocent sacrifice to law and order, if he “injured” five cops with a six shot revolver in a sudden and high stress situation, he was a damn fine marksman.

      Either this guy was the biggest bad ass to hold a weapon since Audie Murphy or these inbeciles shot one another. Yeah maybe some middle aged surburbanite with no military training or combat experienced was when crunch time came an amazing action movie level super hero with a gun. Yeah. that sounds so much more plausible than a bunch of roided out hopped up, poorly trained, imbeciles turned lose with semi automatic weapons managed to shoot one another.

      1. Official statement:
        “We don’t suspect anybody of being struck by friendly fire,” he said. “I don’t expect [it], because our people are really well-trained”

        You doubt that highly trained, well qualified paragon of virtue?

        (#metoo)

      2. Audie Murphy was pretty badass. You put what he did in a movie and people would think it was too over the top to be real.

        Medal of Honor
        Distinguished Service Cross
        Silver Star (twice)
        Bronze Star (twice)
        Purple Heart (3 times)

        All in 19 months before turning 20.

    2. Yes, but to their credit the feds made up a story about sex with the underaged before riddling everyone with bullets and burning the busload of children. The reporters broadcast it right before the massacre, so it must’ve sounded plausible.

  10. …the only people responsible under the law and morally are the people inside that residence who decided to take shots at police officers…” said Acevedo.

    It’s not often you see so clearly stated that morality is suspended for agents of government. Amazing what the right piece of clothing – or bit of metal – can do for one.

    1. They should have been aware that the cops had had them secretly under surveillance and had taken out a warrant to suddenly burst into their home with little warning and prepared themselves to act with grace and aplomb, because the police surely cannot be expected to do so.

    2. Heh. Depending on how you read Acefuckhead, it could be said that his officers are completely and totally responsible. Assuming the cops shot each other.

  11. Has the department disciplined that cop who openly threatened the people of Houston for speaking out against the police in this situation?

    1. You mispelled “Promoted”.

    2. “I came this close to yanking him off there because it took us all by surprise. It was over the top….This [incident] had nothing to do with any of the stuff that he was talking about.”

      So no. Kay.

      1. If only the police had used similar restraint and judgement before killing a family chilling in their living room.

      2. Because he’s not a Houston police officer. He’s the president of a union and can deliver all lies and hateful, violent rhetoric he wants because that’s part of the job description.

        1. Nope. He is a Houston police officer. He was also elected president of the police union.

          The fact that “Houston’s finest” chose this dip-shit, wannabe Nazi as their leader tells you all you need to know about the HPD specifically, and cops generally.

          1. You’re right- he is a full time HPD officer on the night shift also working a full time job as the union president. I just assumed…

    3. To be fair, I gather that he was speaking for the police officers’ union, not for the police department, so it’s not for the latter to discipline him.

  12. Just to highlight this section:

    it is plausible that Tuttle reasonably thought he was acting in self-defense when he shot the man who had just broken into his house and killed his dog. Likewise when police fatally shot his wife as she was trying to disarm the wounded gunman, at which point Tuttle returned fire with his revolver. Whatever announcement the officers made as they were entering could easily have been lost amid the noise, confusion, and shotgun blasts.

    They kicked in his door, shot-gunned his dog, and murdered his wife.

    1. It makes me want to throw up. And to fucking read the idiots on twitter and elsewhere whaling and moaning about our poor police makes me even more sick.

    2. If that’s not evidence they were cops, I don’t know what is.

      1. That would be totally funny if two people weren’t dead.

    3. It’s more than plausible. I don’t have any doubt that he was acting in self defense.

      1. Our justice system demands we assume he was acting in self defense, until the cops can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not.

        1. Yes, indeed. That is what our JUSTICE system demands.
          Our courts however, will probably never see the cops, because prosecutorial discretion trumps laws.

        2. You’re saying that until Tuttle is convicted of a crime his antagonists must be considered guilty? I don’t think it works that way even if no badges are involved.

          1. No, you’ve got it bass akwards. Until Tuttle is convicted of a crime, Tuttle must be presumed not guilty.

    4. Sure, but get to what matters, dammit! Did the First Responders? divvy up the opium fair and square? What other asset-forfeiture SHARING took place?

  13. Acevedo had no explanation for why police did not find the drug that was the justification for the search, even though the house supposedly was under surveillance by narcotics officers between the controlled buy and the raid.

    Acevedo implausibly speculated that the C.I. might not have been familiar enough with firearms to know the difference between a 9mm semi-automatic and a .357 Magnum revolver, the only handgun police found.

    “Body-worn cameras are still a pretty new technology,” Acevedo said.

    “We don’t suspect anybody of being struck by friendly fire,” he said. “I don’t expect [it], because our people are really well-trained”

    ARGH!! STOP TALKING ALREADY!

    1. Right. When the CI was being cited to get the warrant, he was certified as reliable and trustworthy.
      Only after the fact did he become some poor incompetent bastard forced into being a snitch to stay out of jail.

    2. Reminiscent of the biker rally where cops shot each other and then massacred the bikers

  14. No knocks are for special forces and killing squads, not police.

    1. +10000

    2. ^^ right on.

    3. What’s the difference?

  15. “Split-second decision-making” is a perfect excuse for a cop shooting an innocent man, not so much an innocent man confronted by a SWAT team launching a surprise attack of overwhelming force deliberately designed to confuse and disorient and shock the inhabitants of the house into not knowing what the hell is going on.

    I mean, that’s what a goddamn no-knock warrant is for, to catch the people unaware, by surprise, not knowing how to react – and yet simultaneously you’re going to claim that these people should have been able to coolly and calmly assess the situation and realize that these people were cops? You make it sound as if this couple coldly and deliberately ambushed these poor innocent cops out of nowhere, caught them totally by surprise and started mowing them down. FUCK. YOU.

    1. It would definitely be a complete tragedy if Chief Assholevato tripped and fell headfirst into a running wood chipper.

  16. Police found neither of those things when they searched the house the next day…

    That shows you that police were extremely confident in there source. They didn’t bother to bring anything to plant.

    To be serious, if you cannot legally defend your home against law enforcement breaking through your door essentially unannounced, then effectively you cannot legally defend your home. There is no time to ascertain if the intruders are robbers, law enforcement, or robbers posing as law enforcement.

    1. Nope. And that doesn’t make cops any safer. If someone breaks in your hose, chances are they are not cops. So, if you don’t have time to tell who they are, and you likely won’t, you have no choice but to shoot them and hope they are not cops.

      1. Im blasting away and taking as many of the fuckers as I can with me.

        Who cares, Im dead but I aint going like a chump without taking some of those fucking corrupt cops with me.

        1. “Im blasting away…”

          Amen to that, brother. Oh, fuck. Another another black mark on my permanent record for that ^. And my double secret probation may be revoked now.

          And “black mark” was not a racist dog whistle.

    2. And they never seem to address the point that anyone can yell “police” as they bash down your door and kill your dog and wife. And it’s not that hard to get a real-enough looking police uniform either.

      1. They don’t really even have to bother with the uniform. As the article states, drug enforcement don’t wear them while busting into your house.

    3. Remy could do a training video on how to distinguish robbers posing as law enforcement from judicial looters and pet-executioners posing as robbers.

      1. To the tune of “I Shot the Sheriff”.

  17. But no consideration that maybe, just maybe, bursting into someone home as you identify yourself raid may be too dangerous for everyone involved? That it just might an awful idea? No? Ok then…

  18. Sounds like another game of LEO Russian Roulette.

  19. The police seized the neighbor’s video surveillance system. Surely this should show the controlled informant and other drug buyers coming and going, right?

    1. It was accidentily errased. They are no doubt going to be deeply sorry about that.

  20. “Did the Couple Killed by Houston Narcs Know Who the Armed Intruders Were?”

    that headline reminds me of the scene from the Addams family movie where Wednesday and Pugsly are going to bury the couple –
    “are they dead?”
    “does it matter?”

  21. “Our priority was to get body-worn cameras into the hands of the people that are most prone and most likely to be involved in a use-of-force or a response-to-resistance incident or a complaint”

    And he doesn’t think that his Narcotics SWAT team that conducts no-knock armed raids on suspected drug dealers is “likely to be involved in a use-of-force”? He’s being deliberately obtuse. No one is that stupid.

  22. This couple had lived there for years but the cops didn’t bother to do a background check before getting a warrant and executing a raid?

  23. John: in following this story for the last few days, I’ve noticed that you are rightly incensed. And I’ve seen you mad about similar situations before. But this particular story really seems to have driven you to new hieghts of outrage. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t be outraged- we all should be. But, what about this particular incident, compared to previous ones, has incensed you so?

    1. Pigs killed two innocent people after shotgunning their dog on hearsay evidence. No reason to be incensed at all.

  24. When I lived alone downtown in my 20s, a cop pounded on the door and demanded to see “Lisa”, and kept looking past me into the apt and threatening me for not being truthful. I was probably still drunk at 5am Saturday morning and didn’t understand what was going on. I thought someone else must have given out my address, but he basically said I’d be getting charges for aiding and abetting.

    Guy left a voice mail for me later that day, sheepishly notifying me that he had the wrong address. I give him credit for that, but terrifying to realize how powerless you are in your own home.

    1. Apts, yeah youre at the mercy of the shitty setup.

      Still no reason that you couldnt keep your door shut and yell thru the door. Call 911 that some asshole cop is trying to kill you.

      Never open the door.

      If they break the door down, your lawyer can get pictures of a broken down door. An open door means an easy entry by psychotic cops.

  25. But if an officer was shot by friendly fire, the only people responsible under the law and morally are the people inside that residence who decided to take shots at police officers executing a lawful search warrant.”

    Legally, yes.

    Morally, the ones who initiated force are responsible, not the ones engaging in unlicensed commerce.
    You break into someone’s house and start shooting, you never know how people might react.

    No-knock raids should be banned, unless it’s an active hostage situation and secrecy is needed.

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  27. Cops have looser rules of engagement than Marines in Afghanistan fighting heavily armed terrorists.

    You don’t avoid violence and bloodshed by kicking in doors and blowing the family dog’s face off.

    I hope somebody is held accountable.

    1. You know they never are. There will be promotions and awards for “valor”.

  28. We need to find a way to attract a better class of people — with better training, better equipment, better judgment, better character, better accountability — to policing.

    Leashing the drug warriors — which would reduce the problems caused by lousy people who call police with illusory tales of drug-related horrors, knowing they’ll never be held to account for their dangerous, authoritarian delusions and reprehensible conduct — also is overdue. As Republican influence on public policy wanes, I expect libertarian positions on drugs to be realized.

    1. “As Republican influence on public policy wanes, I expect libertarian positions on drugs to be realized.”

      You expect Democrats to legalize heroin?

      1. After marijuana, mushrooms, and cocaine, perhaps.

        1. Is that before or after they harness unicorn farts to pay for Medicare for All?

          1. After enough blow, at least the number of All will go down.

  29. Whomever above said Murder…that’s the right word.

  30. Cheer when cops are shot in the face .

  31. the worst part of this story is that the 5 pigs didn’t die.

  32. So the question is whether these prohi killers were on a government murder and asset-forfeiture squad payroll, or mere freelance burglars and looters?

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  34. Scum of the earth, these cops. A pox on their house.

  35. Scum of the earth, these cops. A pox on their house.

  36. Scum of the earth, these cops. A pox on their house.

  37. Scum of the earth, these cops. A pox on their house.

  38. This is why drugs should NOT be illegal. The government can’t tell a women what she can do with her body when it comes to abortion but it can tell men and women both what they can do with their bodies when it comes to drugs.

    The war on drugs is the most failed war in history. Its lead to countless needless murders of the innocent as well as the guilty, its wasted billions of dollars and all so that we have less rights (thanks to drug related laws) and drugs use is just as widespread as it ever was.

    If the war on drugs were ended because drugs use was full legalized (by legal aged adults) it would greatly reduce the power of law enforcement and thats why it will never happen.

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