Stop and Frisk

Trump Calls for More 'Stop and Frisk' of Citizens While Stumping for the Black Vote

What Fourth Amendment?

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Tonight Fox News will be airing a town hall meeting put on by Donald Trump in Cleveland, where he is purportedly attempting to appeal to African-American voters, who are currently swinging toward Hillary Clinton in massive poll numbers.

At one point Trump was asked about black-on-black crime and violence, which was apparently his cue to declare his support for New York City's "stop-and-frisk" program. NBC reporter Alexandra Jaffe posted an image that transcribed what he actually said:

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The mayor he's praising is, of course, Rudy Giuliani, who is now part of the Trump circle. Reuters notes that Trump's praise didn't exactly win over at least one minority member of the crowd, given that the technique was used largely on minorities with absolutely no evidence or suspicion they were involved in any sort of crime:

[Geoff] Betts, a distributor of hair products, said he is registered to vote as an independent and that he attended the town hall because he was curious about what Trump would say to try to win over black voters. He said he thinks police unfairly discriminate against black citizens and he is against stop-and-frisk.

"We are victims," he said, adding he walked out of the town hall while it was still under way.

"I just couldn't take it anymore, I had to go," he said. "I don't think that Donald Trump gets it."

Besides being an obvious violation of the Fourth Amendment protections of citizens to be free from unwarranted and unreasonable searches, no "stop and frisk" is not what caused crime to go down in New York City, and abandoning the practice didn't cause crime to go up. As Anthony Fisher noted in August, even the panicky New York Daily News has come around to finally realize that "stop and frisk" was not a tool of effective policing.

It should also go without saying that the president of the United States does not have any sort of authority to permit officers to engage in "stop-and-frisk" policing, not that such a distinction will matter whatsoever in this race.

Read more from Reason on the terrible, ineffective use of "stop-and-frisk" policing (and its end) here.

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  1. “I just couldn’t take it anymore, I had to go,” he said. “I don’t think that Donald Trump gets it.”

    You didn’t need to go to the trouble of attending a town hall to discover that.

    1. “But I mean, common, what do you people have to lose?”

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  2. And the goddamn deleterious demons on the right rejoice and kneel to their fucking terminator and his panting tremulous Goliaths-in-waiting.

    Why be concerned by the distant hellish ineptitude of socialism when our fucking liberty camps are immersed in the bloodied jutting warspikes of authoritarian law and order?

    1. The slow slip into right-wing socialism.

    2. Preach it, Agile. Trump has exposed a large portion of libertarians as proto-fascists.

  3. He’s going to get destroyed in the debates. All Clinton has to do is almost nothing.

    1. Yes. Like not cough. Or fall. Or faint. Or cough again. Or lie. Or insult all Trump voters. Or cough.

      1. Look, Clinton is going to destroy him in the debates in AddictionMyth’s head.

        Personally, I expect them to be boring, uneventful, and ultimately pointless like every other Presidential season.

        1. If he comes up with a memorable zinger or if she has a fit/seizure/is stoned to a zombie level, it may finish her off.

  4. It should also go without saying that the president of the United States does not have any sort of authority to permit officers to engage in “stop-and-frisk” policing,

    Ha! So cute.

    1. I have been assured by a Constitutional Law professor that the president can use his pen and phone to implement whatever policy he feels like.

    2. Well, since his dumbass apologists are always telling us to look at what the man actually says, I’m duty bound to point out that he doesn’t suggest permitting officers to do anything.

      …one of the things I’d do, Reciardo, is I would do stop-and-frisk. I think you have to.

      Clearly he’s talking about going out into neighborhoods and frisking people personally. You must just have Trump Derangement Syndrome.

  5. I wonder whether support for s&f differs largely by age among black Americans, and if so, the voting frequency of those two age groups.

  6. I don’t understand how Republicans can call Democrats statists without feeling a twinge of hypocritical guilt…

  7. given that the technique was used largely on minorities with absolutely no evidence or suspicion they were involved in any sort of crime:

    I think for Trump, being a minority is all the evidence of a crime you need.

    1. You forgot to link to all his racist statements. And to the record of all the racism in his companies.

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  9. There seems to be some sort of wistful undercurrent of “Why can’t we do stop and frisk in Chicago?” in some of the articles I have seen lately about teh Gun Violence Epidemic there.

  10. A decent percentage of black people are very conservative on the law and order front and actually support stop and frisk. Trump isn’t trying to win and doesn’t need to win the majority or even close to a majority of black votes. If he could win 20% it would be devastating to Hillary’s chances. So this actually makes sense for him to do this. He is appealing to the portion of the black vote that is being ignored by the Democrats and BLM and who might be inclined to support him.

    1. You don’t know too many black people, do you.

      1. I seem to recall seeing surveys saying that a majority of African Americans would support “stop and frisk” if it could be done without racial profiling.

        Granted, wasn’t it just this morning Trump argued for more profiling?

      2. He may or may not know many, but he’s not completely wrong. There is definitely a “law and order” constituency among black voters. It doesn’t usually manifest as support for Republicans, though. The thing is, I think Clinton has that constituency. Only people with a military or intelligence background seem to fully understand the weight of Clinton’s crimes. So she can be seen as the “law and order” candidate despite being lawless herself.

  11. It should also go without saying that the president of the United States does not have any sort of authority to permit officers to engage in “stop-and-frisk” policing, not that such a distinction will matter whatsoever in this race.

    Don’t be fatuous, Scott.

    1. The SCOTUS has repeatedly permitted police to stop and frisk since 1968. The president’s permission is irrelevant.

      1. Stop and Frisk != Terry Stop. Terry stops require reasonable suspicion; Stop and Frisk was objectionable because it was generally conducted without any reasonable suspicion.

  12. I would point the author of this post to this little case we like to call Terry v. Ohio. Police have a ton of legal authority to stop and frisk. It may not be right, but hey have it. I suppose it is too much to ask that the authors of these pieces have even a basic grasp of the issues involved.

    1. New York’s program got struck down. Terry doesn’t mean any and all stop and frisks are kosher.

      1. Struck down by the District Court and then the appeal was dropped because the city changed mayors. There is little precedential value in the decision.

      2. It wasn’t struck down on 4A grounds

    2. John excusing Trump?!?!? Shocking.

  13. Okay, if they are going to ignore the 4th with this stop and frisk horseshit, then they should be required to do it to absolutely everyone they encounter and see how well that goes over. I still can’t grasp that this goes on in this country. I am still suffering from the delusion that we are a nation of law.

    1. Ever heard of an airport?

  14. Lookie here, nate silver has hillary down to 53 to 46 to win. Just a 6 electoral college vote difference.
    Where’s that Canadian teenager to tell silver what a moron he is?

    1. Sorry, more than 6. 16 votes away from 271.

  15. “It should also go without saying that the president of the United States does not have any sort of authority to permit officers to engage in “stop-and-frisk” policing, not that such a distinction will matter whatsoever in this race.”

    No, you don’t understand. Read what he said, “I would do stop-and-frisk”. Trump isn’t about to delegate policing matters to cops. After all, some of those “policemen” are really police ladies who will choke under pressure.

    Trump is going to implement stop and frisk himself.

    At least for the hot female suspects.

  16. There is law ‘n order sentiment in the black community, though perhaps not to the extent of actually voting Republican. I mean, let’s not get extreme!

    But there may be some black voters who will shake their heads sadly when voting for Hillary because she treats BLM as if it represents all black people.

  17. Can’t wait to see how the pro-trump conservative pundits are going to make excuses for this one.

  18. Stop and frisk, works. Given that the majority of crimes are committed by black men, if we were to simply lock up all black men, we would see a drop in crime like never seen before. Rape, robbery, murder would drop to levels unheard of. It would be completely unconstitutional, but effective.

    And given that it would be so effective, can we at least acknowledge that that is why the idea of stop an frisk is so tempting? Because it works?

  19. I got stuck at this–

    Tonight Fox News will be airing a town hall meeting put on by Donald Trump in Cleveland, where he is purportedly attempting to appeal to African-American voters, who are currently swinging toward Hillary Clinton in massive poll numbers.

    Swinging towards? What?

    Democrats routinely get 95+% of the black vote. What part of -5% can anyone call ‘massive’?

    Or maybe it’s that other poll……the one that showed Trump with 25% of the black vote.

    Maybe it’s those ‘massive numbers’ articles like this are pining for.

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