How Safe Is Our Food Supply?

Our food supply is safe, say 66 percent of Americans. And data backs them up.


grocery store
afiler / CC BY-SA

A recent survey published by the International Food Information Council found that Americans are concerned about food safety. Foodborne illness resides as the top concern of survey respondents.

These facts may sound worrying. Thankfully, they don't tell the whole story. The survey also reveals that fully two-thirds of Americans are confident in the safety of the nation's food supply.

Data support that confidence. For example, the number and severity of foodborne illnesses appears to be trending downwards in many places, including California.

Part of our confidence in our food supply no doubt stems from regulations. But rules can (and often are) imperfect, something I detail at length in my forthcoming book, Biting the Hands that Feed Us: How Fewer, Smarter Laws Would Make Our Food System More Sustainable. And, as I wrote about in a 2012 law-review article, regulations intended to make our food safer often impose new costs but fail to improve safety.

Earlier this week—keeping the above facts in mind—the FDA published final rules to clarify and update its "GRAS" classification system. The acronym "GRAS," which stands for "generally recognized as safe," refers to the status of permissible food additives.

GRAS rules have been controversial for some time. On the one hand, critics have viewed the self-policing approach favored by the rules as too heavily weighed in favor of food producers and, ergo, bad both for consumers and food safety.

On the other hand, the rules may give consumers a false sense of safety. Even then, the FDA is hardly handcuffed by GRAS. In 2015, for example, the agency effectively banned partially hydrogenated oils that contain trans fats, declaring these oils "are no longer GRAS." Many, me included, viewed the ban as a foolhardy attack both on food freedom and on the food industry, and an overstepping of the agency's powers under the GRAS rules.

It probably comes as no surprise that the new rules have also proven controversial, and for some of the same old reasons.

Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) blasted the updated rules, which include continued voluntary reporting by the food industry, as the equivalent of "a self-graded take home exam that industry doesn't even have to hand in."

Food Safety News reported "publication of the final rule has generated opposition from some of the so-called food police groups."

But a group of toxicologists surveyed by Food Navigator, a source of news on the food industry, argued "critics have not provided any evidence that the GRAS system is putting the public at risk." Neither is the food industry. And it's America's food producers who I believe are rightly due a great deal of credit not just for the safety of the nation's food supply but also for our confidence in that food supply.

Take McDonald's. The company, which has seen its stock rebound after it switched to an all-day breakfast menu, has been testing out fresh beef in some restaurants. (The company's burgers are currently made from frozen beef.) Though that's something consumers appear to want, many of the company's franchisees worry that the switch could lead to increased incidents of foodborne illness. Competitors, including Wendy's and In-N-Out Burger, already use fresh beef. Whatever the ultimate decision is from McDonald's, it's likely one that will strive to balance consumer demands with food safety.

Businesses outside the food industry are also working to make food safer. A recent study by IBM researchers on the use of "big data" to mitigate outbreaks of foodborne illness found promising results.

"IBM announced its scientists have discovered that analyzing retail-scanner data from grocery stores against maps of confirmed cases of foodborne illness can speed early investigations," reports the website Phys.org.

Thanks to a combination of technological fixes and innovations, consumer demands, and regulations, better reporting, food-safety litigators, and other measures, our nation's food supply is largely safe, and appears to be growing safer.

NEXT: Libertarian Gary Johnson Tries His Luck in Las Vegas

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  1. Foodborne illness resides as the top concern of survey respondents.

    Its amazing how the top concern of survey respondents is *always* whatever the topic of the survey is.

    1. Whacked-out, biased surveys-taking is at the VERY top of MY list of worries!

      1. Anybody can earn 450$+ daily… You can earn from 9000-14000 a month or even more if you work as a full time job…It’s easy, just follow instructions on this page, read it carefully from start to finish… It’s a flexible job but a good eaning opportunity.. go to this site home tab for more detail… http://bit.do/ctDjs

    2. Yeah, following the link, the survey is apparently “Which food safety issue scares you the most? Rank these, please.”

      Yes, Americans go to bed every night, scared of what their dinner will do to them in their sleep.

    3. Didn’t we see a video of the guy that does fake petitions having dozens of people signing a sheet with “I am a moron” in one inch letters as the header?

      I dont trust surveys or polls one tiny bit.

  2. Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) blasted the updated rules, which include continued voluntary reporting by the food industry, as the equivalent of “a self-graded take home exam that industry doesn’t even have to hand in.”

    And who, pray tell, is the school marm scolding the schoolchildren who dare think they’re grown-ass adults that don’t need to be treated like fifth-graders?

  3. And McDonalds is testing using fresh beef but concerned that frozen beef is safer? You know what else preserves meat besides freezing? Salt. Load enough salt on and that stuff’s all sterilized. That’s how humans preserved food for thousands of years before refrigerators were invented. But I suspect they already know that, and the FDA doesn’t like salt, either.

    (For some reason or another, I stopped eating fast food burgers for lunch a couple of times a week and after a few months I stopped by Wendys and got a couple of burgers and holy crap is that stuff salty. I haven’t had a fast food burger in probably a year or more.)

    1. It’s great how just as they have succeeded in pressuring lots of food manufacturers to cut salt, we are getting more and more evidence that salt really isn’t bad for most people.

      1. Saturated fat redux. Or dietary cholesterol.

        I’m guessing we’re about 15 years out from suddenly discovering all of the nutritional benefits of sugar as well.

    2. The best thing to preserve meat is radiation, but that’s too scary.

      1. That’s more sanitization than preservation, I think. It might prolong the shelf life a bit, but doesn’t make it not go bad.

        1. Radiate plus sealed container = indefinitely preserved from microbial dangers. It still might degrade due to chemical interactions, but it ain’t gonna “go bad.” At least not where “go bad” is attached to an article about food safety.

    3. There’s a salsa that I like because it’s not as salty as most but I do notice that it does not stay good for as long. Frog Ranch good stuff.

        1. We grow wonderful tomatoes in the fertile heartland. Jalape?os grow quite well here as well.

        2. Ohio salsa – ketchup?

          1. I’ll have you know that Cincinnatti is the Chili capitol of the world!

            Of course, as Ron White points out, that could be because they didn’t tell the Hispanics the contest was being held….

            1. Beef and tomato with chili seasoning with pasta is a goulash.

            2. Skyline chili is horrible. I wouldn’t eat it if it were free

              1. Heresy!

  4. Five months. Only five long, hard months left in Block Insane Yomomma’s intolerable reign of terror.

    1. And then we are on to the next intolerable reign of terror.

    2. People seem to be tolerating things just fine.

      1. “Tolerate” seems to be a difficult concept for a lot of people.

    3. I’m looking forward to the rein of Crazy Psycho Smile Grandma.

      1. *Shudder*

      2. I still think it won’t happen. Get ready for Trump.

  5. I thought that most food illness occurs at home do to improper handling? The advent better transport ,shipping,refrigeration and industrial canning eliminated most food illness at home This was due to this things replacing most home canning. More choices and safer food.

    1. Oh no, you’re completely wrong. Your home kitchen is 100% safe because you’re cooking for yourself and your ‘loved ones’ so you take extra special care. Commercial kitchens are run by heartless profit seekers that will gleefully poison you as long as the damages from the lawsuits is less than their profits.

      Its also why you can’t sell or give away food made in your home kitchen to strangers – you DGAF unless the stern (but fair!) and wise hand of government is there to make you.

      1. Commercial kitchens are run by heartless profit seekers that will gleefully poison you as long as the damages from the lawsuits is less than their profits.

        From those huge margins that restaurants operate on.

    2. Yeah, it does. Some restaurants can be pretty nasty, but everyone’s kitchen is probably just as bad (even if it looks clean).

      Food is just extremely safe these days. It’s a ridiculous thing to worry about. The fact that it’s a big deal, prompting major recalls, when 30 people get sick from some contaminated food product should be seen as evidence of how amazingly safe food is.

      1. I’ve watched a few of those restaurant shows where Gordon Ramsay gies in and yells at everyone and the restaurants are disgustingly filthy. I know some of that’s dramatized but a couple things always come to mind when I see that. Why do we pay food inspectors? Why aren’t we all dead? Seems like it’s more random chance that someone didn’t wash their hands properly so a few people get sick.

        1. “Get off your arse and clean this place you f—–g donut!”

          1. That’s him

              1. He is a total dick.

        2. I always wondered whether they fabricated some of the food safety concerns on that show. But they went too far in the episode where they said the Japanese restaurant was not refrigerating opened mayonnaise, because the owner didn’t know you were supposed to. They would have been carting people out in body bags if that were true.

          The formula seems to be — struggling restaurant needs customer service advice and capital infusion, so TV production company offers to give it to them in return for fabricating a bunch of drama that never really existed, and will probably doom the restaurant to failure 6 months later when the show airs.

          1. Uh, not really. Mayonnaise doesn’t go bad all that quickly. At least the store bought kind that filled with preservatives to start with.

    1. “Firefighters said when the entered the home to rescue [baby] Viviana, they found [the baby’s mother’s] dog, Polo, in the room with her and he was covering her with his body….

      “Paramedics were able to revive Viviana, who has severe burns on her face, arm and side. But Polo did not survive the fire.”


    2. Some of the best people are dogs. I remember a story where some woman wrecked her car and it caught on fire with her unconscious inside. Her Rottweiler pulled her out through the window and dragged her away from the car to safety .

  6. I’m pretty sure if you asked the millions of folks eating out tonite “What is your biggest worry tonite?” the answer will be “Am I going to get laid later?” and not “I hope I’m not puking up my guts later from eating tainted buffalo wings.”

    1. What about the people taking their clients to fancy restaurants? Are they thinking about screwing?

      Never mind…

      1. Sickest I ever got from food was at a fancy restaurant that thought a dead lobster was okay to cook because maybe it wasn’t that dead for that long. Got over it in a day, though, no doctor required.

    2. In Houston, the ex Mayor and loving and caring for the poor Democrat was so concerned about food safety she made it illegal for anyone but an employees of Government Almighty to feed the homeless no matter if the food was cooked in a licensed kitchen specifically to deliver to the homeless. It might go bad you know.

      Meanwhile several delivery pizza joints manage to feed millions of satisfied customers in the homes on a daily basis.

      As I was typing that horrible stream of conscious, run on sentence I thought of a work around. One person could give the homeless a quarter, the homeless person could then pay for the food and it would no longer be private charity.

      I would think that the first person to try this should either be an attorney, or have a dedicated one close at hand.

      1. Do you have a business license? Did you pay your taxes? Hmmm? Do you?!

        1. It wouldn’t fix everything, but it would allow restaurants and such to donate food if they wanted. Though the city would probably find another way to fuck with them.

  7. Victory at Last! Kim Davis Has Won the Fight for Religious Freedom

    “”Kim Davis has won! We celebrate this victory for her and for every American,” said Mat Staver, Founder and Chairman of Liberty Counsel. “County clerks are now able to perform their public service without being forced to compromise their religious liberty. The case is now closed and the door has been shut on the ACLU’s attempt to assess damages against Kim Davis. This victory is not just for Kim Davis. It is a victory for everyone who wants to remain true to their deeply-held religious beliefs regarding marriage while faithfully serving the public,” said Staver.”

    1. while faithfully serving picking and choosing what they do for the public

      But then, don’t they all do that?

      1. And Jesus beheld Kim Davis and said unto her, “Rememberest thou what I said about rendering unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s? I was totally kidding.”

        1. Marriage belongs to God, not Caesar. Caesar needs to but out and stop issueing licenses altogether.

        2. Funny how progs love using that line, but tend to not bother respecting the latter in any way whatsoever.

      2. The people of Kentucky did the picking and choosing by adding a provision to their Constitution by which only unions between 1 man and 1 woman should be recognized as marriages, and any other union may not be recognized. Kim Davis was bound by this.

        The US Supreme Court’s decision can only be justified on “living constitution,” non-originalist theories.

        These are the same kind of legal theories which makes smoking a bong an act affecting interstate commerce.

        These are the same legal theories under which stealing someone’s property and giving it ti Pfizer is a taking of property for a “public use.”

        These are the same legal theories by which the cops can pull over a driver who isn’t committing a crime, because the cop is dumb and has the wrong belief that the driver *did* commit a crime.

        Your fear of ritual contamination from contact with bleevers makes you turn a blind eye to assaults on the rule of law, so long as the Sky Daddy crowd is the victim.

        1. Your fear of ritual contamination from contact with bleevers makes you turn a blind eye to assaults on the rule of law, so long as the Sky Daddy crowd is the victim.

          Uh, Eddy? We’ve never had any sort of discussion on the topic of religion so I’m puzzled as to why you jumped to the conclusion that I have a “fear of ritual contamination from contact with bleevers”.

          1. Sorry, you may be an exception, but lots of H&R people have such a fear.

            1. I love banging Christian women.

            2. I’m a Believer, so Fuck Off Slaver

              1. Who’s the slaver?

                The person who says “der law is der law” even if it’s not the law, and that the whims of some jackoffs in robes supersede the people acting in their legislative capacity? That’s who you meant by “slaver,” right?

            3. “Sorry, you may be an exception, but lots of H&R people have such a fear.”

              Cite missing eddie, as expected.

            4. Last night on Derpbook people were shrieking, rending garments and gnashing teeth over Kim Davis, oblivious to Hillary and her avoiding any charges for anything.

              1. So the people on Facebook realized that Davis had won, just as her lawyer said.

        2. When the cat’s away the mice will play. (IIRC German version of this saying went along the lines of “when the cat goes to the town mice dance on the table”)

          When the state and feds can’t agree on something, the clerk gets to do what they want.

          1. I remember hearing it in Norwegian a lot, but to save my soul from the boils of hell I can’t remember now how it went. I just remember that it described something different to then English. Pretty sure the word “bordet” (the table) was in there somewheres.

        3. “The US Supreme Court’s decision can only be justified on “living constitution,” non-originalist theories.”

          I don’t think the Constitution has much of anything to say about marriage. It does however have this to say:

          All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

          If A and B can enter into a contract that grants them certain protections, then C and D can also. It’s pretty straightforward.

          1. So the state can’t make any legal distinctions among its inhabitants?

            There are state laws by which you have to be a certain age to get a driver’s license.

            There are laws by which people who commit murder are subject to higher penalties than people who commit manslaughter.

            There are state laws where you can drive 70 on the highway but not 85 mph.

            Are all these laws unconstitutional?

            In other words, what principle do you use to decide which legal distinctions are legitimate and which ones are not?

            Do we go by the feelz of the judges, channelling the latest ideological fashions in the political and legal world?

            Or do we try to look at the matter based on the original public understanding of the 14th Amendment regarding which distinctions are considered particularly dubious and which are unobjectionable?

            1. What exactly is the compelling state interest that would justify restricting approval of a marriage contract to only between men and women?

              1. What is the legal theory by which the states have to prove to the satisfaction of a panel of liberal judges that it’s a good thing to recognize man/woman marriages and not other “marriages”?

                1. Bringing out the air quotes.

                  Eddie, it doesn’t look like you want a conversation. It looks like you’re picking a fight.

                  1. I was kind of looking for a fightversation.

                    If you’re asking whether that’s a particularly noble motive on my part, I would candidly answer, no, it’s not a 100% pure motivation, there’s an element of wanting to scrap with people who repeat certain “gay rights” talking points I disagree with strongly.

              2. what’s the state interest in restricting access to certain privileges and immunities to only those individuals who submitted to what can only be a ritual of degradation and got a marriage license? And it’s not a contract in any meaningful sense of the word. Not only is it not a contract, but states generally discourage people from entering into actual legal contracts of that nature which don’t give special rights to the state, who’s not even a party, to come in and fuck it all up.

          2. This isn’t an ordinary contract. It’s binding on third parties. That’s why the government is involved.

            1. How is a marriage contract binding on 3rd parties?

              1. Children, employers, insurers, banks, hotels, bakers, photographers, etc.

              2. And it doesn’t actually require that either of the two principal parties live up to their offers, but instead what can be required is determined by special laws which essentially treat any real agreement between the parties as meaningless and may require totally different things from them than what they offered or may not even require one party to offer any meaningful consideration at all. It’s nothing like a normal contract, where the explicit agreement is the basis for any claims.

    2. From the order:

      In light of these proceedings, and in view of the fact that the marriage licenses continue to the issued without incident (Docs. # 172-176), there no longer remains a case or controversy before the Court.

      Despite what the folks at Charisma News want you to believe, that’s different. Lying for the Lord, lying for the Lord, we shall come rejoicing, lying for the Lord.

      1. What she always said is that she doesn’t want to be implicated in these licenses by having her name on them or having her staff act on her behalf. The new statute provides that clerks in her office, on their own authority, can issue licenses without Davis’ name on them – this is *precisely* the relief Davis sought, and it allows her to keepher job with her conscience intact.

        The ACLU wanted fines against Davis. They lost. They wanted the litigation filed by their clients to continue. They lost.

        1. You just know at the pearly gates that the Almighty is going to ask her why her faith wasn’t strong enough to martyr herself to back into the job market to uphold His will.

          1. Because the Lord conveniently wants Christians to hand over all public offices to secularists and political atheists.

            Isn’t it an astonishing coincidence that the Lord God Jehovah wants the SJWs to take over the United States!

            1. political atheism = governing as if the existence of God was some incidental question which has nothing to do with the day to day activities of government.

              1. Nothing like a good Kim Davis threat to turn H&R commenters into Holmesian legal positivists – people who think the law is merely a series of preductions of what the government will do to you if you engage in certain behavior.

                Thus, to Holmes and his ilk, “the law” makes it illegal to have your savings in your car, since the cops will steal it by pretending it’s drug money.

                “The law” makes it legal for cops to shoot and make false arrests of “civilians” – if it were illegal, the cops would be held to account, wouldn’t they?

              2. Does the existence of God, or lack thereof, really effect the day to day activities of government?
                If there is no God, then laws against murder, rape, stealing, etc., are illegitimate?
                There is no right or wrong without God?
                I’m not sure what your point is.

                1. “If there is no God, then laws against murder, rape, stealing, etc., are illegitimate?”

                  That depends on whether you follow atheism into the realm of Nietzsche and Holmes. It’s a horrifying, non-Euclidian world.

                  Or there are atheists who have a moral sense – often highly developed – which they attribute to evolution or a roll of the dice. The idea that there are transcendent moral values external to the individual and his community (which may not be a very moral community), is too close to the idea of a God, but many atheists know that they feel good when they do good, and they’re satisfied with that without worrying about the theological implications.

                  Nietzsche hated people like that – they didn’t have the courage of their nonconvictions.

                  1. Or it’s not even half as complicated as all that. People have empathy. I can say, damn that would suck if somebody did x to me, so I’m not going to do x to someone else. And I’m going to have government make x illegal.

                    1. “People have empathy.”

                      When I admit that atheists have empathy, then I’m also conceding that the Sky Daddy people have empathy, too, so, yes, I agree that people have empathy.

                2. The problem is that all the bases of rational ethics have to pass through moral agency and property. If we admit that people are moral agents that can own property (depending how you want to parse it, you can derive either of the two from the other, so baselessly admitting only one is necessary, really), then we’ve got a pretty standard ethical system which won’t vary much regardless whether somebody thinks that God’s standing in back of the whole thing somewheres or not.

            2. We have guns, SJWs don’t. We win. Live in the real world much?

              1. You if you have guns, you can go into San Francisco, set up an apartment building, and set whatever rent you want? Because the only thing you have to worry about in San Fran is the SJWs, right?

                1. The SJW’s have guns, lots of guns and bigger guns than we do, carried by people who are extremely willing to use them and won’t feel any regret for doing so – until *after* they’ve retired.

            3. The Lord doesn’t and has made *clear* that nothing in this world matters except as prep and test for entry into the next one. So I don’t see why the Lord would give a damn *who* runs the world.

              He just expects Christians to abide by Christian law – no exemptions.

              1. As a Protestant I was taught tha I was to acknowledge Christ as Savior and never deny him and that that was the only thing to which there was no exemptions.

                The breach of Christian law is sin and all mankind on earth sins except for Christ.

                1. thanks for that bit of wisdom, Dr “Oh it’s so hard I just give up!” Luther there.

        2. The real solution would have been – once they’ve realized that you don’t need an ‘official’ county clerk to *approve* a contract between two people (which is all marriage is on the secular side, a contract creating a partnership) is to remove not just the signing requirement but the marriage *license* itself.

          1. That would be excellent, but it wouldn’t allow a purge of the civil service.

            1. Wouldn’t *need* one.

              1. To the SJWs, a gay-marriage law is unfair if it doesn’t purge the civil service of people whose consciences are inconvenient.

        3. If the lowly serf can issue the licenses, what it the point of having Davis around?

          I don’t take issue with Davis and her personal beliefs, but the duties of the clerk are such a burden on her conscience she should have resigned.

          1. Again and again we see this begging of the question.

            What *are* the duties of the clerk?

            According to the Constitution of Kentucky, she is not *allowed* to grant same-sex “marriage licenses.”

            The US Supreme Court tried to rewrite the Kentucky constitution (and many other state constitutions) to say that same-sex licenses *are* part of her office’s duties.

            I know there are people, going back as far as Senator Stephen Douglas with the Dred Scott decision, whose position was “the Supreme Court said, I believe it, that settles it.” There are others, like Douglas’s opponent Abraham Lincoln, who said that the Supreme Court can’t change the Constitution or require other branches of government to adopt wrong constitutional interpretations. The Wisconsin Supreme Court took the same position when it held the Fugitive Slave Law unconstitutional, defying the U.S. Supreme Court which said it was not on the state courts’ business.

            So if you have an argument that Stephen Douglas and the Taney court were right, present the argument, but don’t simply assume your conclusion.

            1. You are correct. I said that without knowing what the actual duties of the clerk are. I really never had strong feelings one way or the other about Davis herself. That is a technical matter to be worked out in state court.

              I still take issue with the Kentucky constitution on 14th A grounds. In answer to y our question the distinctions you used are either criminal statutes or those distinguishing age of majority. Not quite the same.

              Any two people of majority age can enter into a partnership so long as they don’t violate some existing contract. The 14th clearly says the state may not grant to one what it refuses to grant to another. Doing otherwise creates 2nd class citizens.

              C’mon Eddie, it isnt complicated. It doesnt matter that it contravenes religious dogma or custom or anything else. If you don’t like it, change the 14th A, but I don’t think that is a can of worms we want to open.

              1. Also, nothing about state issued marriage licenses interferes with churches setting whatever conditions they see fit on marriages.

                Over the years I have discovered that nothing anyone else does or chooses to do in their life affects my marriage one whit. Our marriage is exactly what my wife and I make it, nothing else.

                1. “It doesnt matter that it contravenes religious dogma or custom or anything else.”

                  You’re right, the 14th Amendment doesn’t incorporate the “gay marriage” dogma which has become popular of late.

                  If the 14th Amendment codified this dogma, then this fact would have been noticed earlier.

                  If it was self-evident that the 14th Amendment meant Adam and Steve get their unions recognized by the state, then at least some of the framing generation would have noticed it. Bingham, Stevens, Howard, Sumner in Congress…or Cooley or some other commentator who dealt with the 14th Amendment, or any of the Supreme Court justices from that generation?

                  How could such an obvious thing have escaped the attention of all these people in the framing generation?

                  Maybe it wasn’t so obvious as you assert.

                  1. “nothing about state issued marriage licenses interferes with churches setting whatever conditions they see fit on marriages.”

                    I love the way the goalposts get moved.

                    First it was, “no, you’re free to believe whatever you want about marriage.”

                    Then it was “well, of course, you *aren’t* free to *act* on your beliefs if you happen to run a business, because a business is based on [smelling salts, please] profits.”

                    But we totally won’t go after your churches!

                    “nothing anyone else does or chooses to do in their life affects my marriage one whit.”

                    That’s because you don’t run a family bakery like Melissa and Aaron Klein, whose family business was indeed attacked, thereby affecting their marriage.

                    1. That’s because you don’t run a family bakery like Melissa and Aaron Klein, whose family business was indeed attacked, thereby affecting their marriage.

                      Because public accommodation laws are just viewed as the bee’s knees by the Reason commentariat.

                    2. It’s not the Reason commentariat which is going after the Kleins.

                      But it shows that you can’t assume your marriage is secure from attack from the SSM folks.

                  2. It isnt the first time that we have had problems living up the the ideals set forth in the constitution.

                    Freedom of association means that Adam and Steve can enter into whatever contract they wish with each other (if they want to join property/children/home) and it also means they can refuse to enter into a contract (if Steve is an evangelical baker and Adam wishes to have Steve cater his gay wedding).

                    Unfortunately your argument against gay marriage is a restriction on the freedom of association opening the door to forcing Nazi cakes.

                    1. “Unfortunately your argument against gay marriage is a restriction on the freedom of association opening the door to forcing Nazi cakes.”

                      That is cute, but the problem is that we didn’t have people discussing compulsory nazi cakes until *after* the “gay marriage” nonsense became popular.

                      I’m not proposing any limits on Adam and Steve’s right to set up housekeeping together, to call themselves married, and to cut off social and business relations with anyone who refuses to recognize their “marriage.”

                      I’m not proposing any limits on Adam and Steve’s right to sodomize each other (a) if they’re both adults (b) if they’re both consenting (c) if they’re on private property with the consent of the owner, and (d) if they’re not risking the spread of disease.

                      I still don’t see how the 14th Amendment requires the state, or bakers, to recognize their union.

                      “It isnt the first time that we have had problems living up the the ideals set forth in the constitution.”

                      I’m going to guess that’s a reference to slavery and Jim Crow, which is assuming the conclusion – that gay liberation is the new abolitionism, the new civil rights movement.

          2. I don’t see how you can argue that a gay marriage license is some kind of abomination in the eyes of God and not also see that the government license is even worse if it’s for a Christian pair, since in that case it’s definitely the sacrilegious abuse of a sacred mystery. And if you got doubts, the safest fucking course is DON’T GET INVOLVED IN GOVERNMENT LICENSING OF MARRIAGE.

  8. I guess I’ll be the first to say it. Thank god we have our Top Mem at the FDA working 24/7 to keep our food safe. It’s the only thing that lets me sleep calmly at night.

    1. As a resident, I can assure that DC is the most overrated food city in America. Other than a few Ethiiopian joints and the odd South American chicken joint, everything in that city is soulless fake hipster bullshit. And I have been to all the alleged great places in this city. They are all hipster bullshit versions of the real stuff that can be had elsewhere.

    2. Rose’s Luxury and Tail up Goat both suck ass. Total mediocrity. Neither is well executed or creative enough to be true fine dinning but not authentic enough to be rustic. They are to good dining what Garth Brooks is to country music. Sure there are worse songs than Friends in Low Places, but that doesn’t mean it is any good.

      1. Sometimes you really deliver man.

    3. John and Tundra nailed this.

      Pretentiousness tastes like MEH.

      The hole-in-the-wall mom n’ pop places are the only restaurants where you find good food. One of the best seafood places I have been to were screened in wood frames , basically giant porches with wooden picnic tables. I wish I could remember the name of the one in Lafayette…best goddamned crawfish on the planet. I saw it while driving by and at first thought it was a family reunion or private gathering, then realized it was a restaurant. I screeched to a halt, went in and thirty minutes later my wife and I were nearly in tears it was so good.

      There is one in Alexandria like that too. It is an old gasoline station converted to a restaurant- Robby G’s. I cant imagine why anyone would find themselves in Alexandria, La, but if you do eat at Robbie G’s.

      1. Robby Goave?

        Does he do alt-text? 😉

      2. I would not go that far. If you have never been to any of the five Grande Damme restaurants in New Orleans, you should. When done properly, fine dining is amazing.

        1. yeah, I have been. I wasn’t impressed. The food was good but not great. I can do better in my own kitchen on my worst night for under 20 bucks.

          If you want real Louisiana food you have to go somewhere other than new orleans. One of the best places in the state used to be the general store in Livonia off of Cotton Gin road (middle of freakin’ nowhere). It was the most unassuming place you can imagine. Sadly it has closed down. They had world class rabbit, duck, turtle soup, crawfish remoulade, escargot, etc etc. Anytime I drove to New Orleans or Baton Rouge we would stop and eat there instead of in the city.

      3. Holy crap, I may have been to that place. In my younger days I worked with a couple of guys* from there and one time we had a job that took us out to Lake Charles so we went by some of their old stomping grounds. It’s where I was introduced to boudin. It was an old house out in the middle of the woods down a dirt road. You walk in and there’s two long counters like in a butcher shop, the first where you buy whatever you want out of the glass case and a second counter where you hand it to the cooks and tell them how you want it cooked – boiled or fried or baked or whatever. They wrap it up in butcher paper, you grab a bottle of Coke out of the cooler, take it out in the yard to wherever you find space at a picnic table and tuck in. The yard around the house is just a big patch of dirt where everybody parks haphazardly, when we stopped by in the middle of the afternoon there were maybe 25 or 30 people there and that’s as slow as they get. Damn, that’s some fine dining right there.

        *The joke was that they had to hire both of them because only one of them spoke English. The other one only spoke Cajun and nobody could understand a word he said.

      4. San Juan PR you’ve got to go to Bebo’s, right outside of Carolina You might get robbed coming out of the restroom, but the food is awesome.

  9. A recent survey published by the International Food Information Council found that Americans are concerned about food safety. Foodborne illness resides as the top concern of survey respondents.

    These facts may sound worrying. Thankfully, they don’t tell the whole story. The survey also reveals that fully two-thirds of Americans are confident in the safety of the nation’s food supply.

    Jesus Tap Dancing Christ. Was this written by a mildly retarded 12 year old? A “survey”of Americans being concerned= facts that may be worrying?
    I really hope this isn’t the only article we are are going to get today.
    I swear, I could write better garbage than this in my sleep.

  10. Today I stood in line behind a fat man who was lamenting that Oreos come from Mexico. I’m still trying to figure that one out. Health concerns? Imports are evil? Food nationalism? NAFTA?

    1. Oreos and Mexico in one sentence? Definitely racist.

      1. The important question is do they (Oreos) still taste like cardboard?

        1. They taste like mulatto.

          1. *licks himself*

            Well, I’ll be damned.

      2. Maybe he was referring to dark skinned Mexicans who “act white”?

    2. I vote food nationalism.

      Oreo is America’s favorite cookie. Why is made in Mexico?

      If I want to get huge in America, I want a cookie that’s made in America.

      When Hillary’s president, she’ll tax companies moving jobs overseas. Even though there isn’t a sea between us and Mexico. Because super smart policy makers have no time tor language: fuck that shit.

      Then, my American fat ass can be truly made in the USA.

    3. Interfacing with strangers was your first mistake.

      1. Even worse, we were lined up waiting for an estate sale to open. And even worse, everything was overpriced junk. No, I’m not going to pay $1000 for a shitty gun safe, you fucking dead fucks.

        1. Estate sales are always disappointing

        2. Try online Everything But The House. Bids start at $1

    4. I had to look that up. Clinton, Trump, and Sanders all talk about Oreo production moving to Mexico.
      Trump boycotts the Oreo, Salon.com hates the Oreo.

      My fat fuck food better be made in America, and not overseas in Mexico.

      1. If you don’t support open borders immigration, then you’re racist.

        If you support open borders employment, then you’re an unpatriotic bastard, making the poor get poorer while the rich get rich. Never mind the relatively poorer foreign workers getting richer, at the expense (?) of the relatively richer American worker.

        Nationalism isn’t racist when it’s economic nationalism. Out of the pure consistency of it all.

      2. Huh. How about that.

    5. I recently learned that Oreos are the copy, and Hydrox was first.

      1. And Hydrox taste better.

        1. I was aware of this, but Hydrox sounds more like something I would use as a reagent than something I would want to eat.

          1. What, you don’t like Benzoylie brand cookies?

          2. Ovaltine comes to mind as another similarly-wackily-named product from the same time period.

            1. What do you have against Ellipsetine?

          3. That was its original purpose until one night they left it out by mistake and in the morning it was cookies.

  11. Many people are saying the food supply is very dangerous. I don’t know, but I’m really scared. Lots of bad things could happen. Really bad. Believe me. At times like this we need a strong leader to keep us safe. What do we have to lose?

  12. OT: Joe Biden used dead son to score points against Trump

    “If Donald Trump had been president, I would’ve thrown my body in front of him to keep him from going if the judgment was based on Donald Trump’s decision,” Biden said of his son, who died in May 2015 after a prolonged battle with cancer.

    However, Joe will send your children to Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Syria, or Libya, or Somalia, or….

    1. You git im, fightin’ Joe.

  13. Fucking Revenant. Wasted my time watching DiCaprio crawling around for 2 and a half hour. WWE Summerslam had a better plot.

    1. really? I have it in my queue. Its that bad? I thought it would have some Jeremiah-Johnson appeal at least – “realistic depiction of lives of period ‘mountain men’, capped with “Revenge-narrative”

      1. If you think Job didn’t suffer enough, this one is for you. I’m not kidding about the crawling around for 2 and a half hours either.

        1. I’m not kidding about the crawling around for 2 and a half hours either.

          Have you seen “Touching the Void“?

          (great doco btw)

          it involves a similar sort of thing, but is actually incredibly well done.

          1. That sounds like a Huma documentary. Not clicking it.

          2. I own it on DVD, it’s great

            1. I like how the extras on the DVD talk a bit about how simon was sort of treated like an international pariah for years because of having ‘cut the rope’. and how him and joe were never really ‘friends’ at all to begin with.

              i was very into climbing in the 1990s and that story was like ‘the biggest thing that happened’ other than the 1996 “Into thin air” Everest thing that Krakauer covered. everyone pretty much considered that guy (along w/ MTV woman from everest) the worst person on earth.

              But the film i think does a very good job telling the truth in an unvarnished way which redeems him, even though the truth isn’t necessarily happy or nice either. It just is. I think the thing was just a brilliant bit of documentary work, the way they blended the real-guys narration with the ‘re-enactment’. I can’t think of any other method to depict the moment of “yay I survived a huge fall off a cliff!….

              ….. into a deep crevasse…..

              ….which….. i now can’t get out of…..”

    2. It is a Wiley Coyote cartoon made into a movie. The movie would have been better if the bear had raped DiCaprio.

      1. That is exactly what I thought. Will E. Coyote.

    3. My most recent movie-watching was Caf? Metropole, an 80-minute trifle from 1937. Nothing original here (I prefer Love Is News), but Tyrone Power and Loretta Young both look radiant, and Adolphe Menjou is as charming as ever.

      1. May heaven bless TCM and allow them to live forever.

  14. a fat man who was lamenting that Oreos come from Mexico.

    Eating Oreos made in Mexico would be like flying a Stars and Stripes made in China, you cosmotarian poofter.

    1. There’s nothing that captures the *greatness* of the American experiment than that our flag is made in China, Oreos are Mexican, and the Japanese love baseball.

      And no, I’m not being sarcastic here either.

  15. Fucking Revenant. Wasted my time

    I talked to a couple of people who saw it in the theater. They said it was idiotic. Not credible in nearly every way.

    1. It is a Wiley Coyote cartoon with Leo as Wiley. He just stumbles from one ridiculous misfortune to the next with each one more unbelievable than the last.

      1. The first 20 minutes or so is pretty good, right up to where diCaprio gets ripped up by the bear. The problem is that the movie is based on a novel, not a historical book. They could have taken the passage on the Hugh Glass incident from Mountain Man and Grizzly (which contains quite a few interesting grizzly encounter stories besides Glass’s) and had a pretty sweet 100-minute film.

    1. Note the refugees seem to be able to restrain themselves from raping and groping in the US. The fact that there are about twenty million armed rednecks looking for an excuse to kill them seems to have an effect on their behavior.

      1. That and, despite people saying otherwise, our government at all levels does not, for some inexplicable reason, take the side of the guy who rapes a 10 year old boy in a YMCA restroom.

        I simply do not understand the end-game for Euro politicians here. I don’t know what they’re thinking when they do this shit. I mean, its not even the usual socialist insanity – I can understand the denial, repression, purges, pogroms of your own people to maintain power but this? This fellating of ME refugees that’s going on there?

        I guess its some SJW thing – a new type of insanity that doesn’t have much historical precedent.

        I mean, they have to know that if the Muslims take power that they’ll be the first ones to get the chop, right?

        1. Raping a 10 year old at a public pool will get you life in the US. How they can excuse it over there is just insanity.

          1. In some of those countries, there is no “life in prison”.

            Anders Breivik is going to get out.

          2. They can excuse it because it’s not their children. Do you think it’s their kids using the public pool?

            1. They are coming from an honor culture where the victim’s family is supposed to avenge him. If the victim’s family doesn’t do anything, they figure everything is okay. They don’t understand rule of law culture, and try to weasel their way out of the consequences like they’d do in their own country. We still have vestiges of honor culture here in the US, e.g. the Mafia or the armed rednecks. Try that shit in a Mafia neighborhood and see what happens to the perps.

        2. I simply do not understand the end-game for Euro politicians here. I don’t know what they’re thinking when they do this shit. I mean, its not even the usual socialist insanity – I can understand the denial, repression, purges, pogroms of your own people to maintain power but this?

          On one level, i think its about “needing more bodies to fund the welfare-state”. EU govts face a fiscal cliff as many citizens age into retirement, but their kids aren’t making new babies to fill the labor roles. immigrants are a necessity to ensure that tax-flow be kept up.

          But i don’t think many were ever prepared for the idea of all the new immigrants all coming from one region of the world, all at once, and the potential side-effects of that. I think many pols are so terrified of charges of racism (esp in germany) that they go to absurd extremes to avoid it, so far as ignoring criminal behavior and suggesting nativist over-reaction is to blame.

          1. Trouble is, uneducated Third World Muslims who can barely read even Arabic are clients for the welfare state, not workers who will help pay for it.

        3. I simply do not understand the end-game for Euro politicians here. I don’t know what they’re thinking when they do this shit. I mean, its not even the usual socialist insanity – I can understand the denial, repression, purges, pogroms of your own people to maintain power but this? This fellating of ME refugees that’s going on there?

          I guess its some SJW thing – a new type of insanity that doesn’t have much historical precedent.

          The long march through the institutions has long since concluded and people really do believe that the “Western white male capitalist colonialist patriarchy” is axiomatically worse than anything else. The slightest pretense towards any sort of objective morality has been discarded.

          Just look at the Jews like Peter Beinart, Glen Greenwald, or Sally Kohn who sympathize with people and ideologies that loudly and openly call for their genocide.

          1. It is called demoralization. It is institutionalized insanity, plain and simple. The purpose is simple as well; to create a population that can easily be enslaved.

            1. Yeah, well, the intentionally intellectually dishonest are going to take the useful idiots and the rest of us through the lesson of the sorcerer’s apprentice writ large: don’t call up what you can’t put down.

              The death of the West is not going to be all they cracked it up to be, that’s for sure.

              1. The people driving it are not really all that different from the useful idiots. The useful idiots all think after the glorious revolution they will be the one walking around with a clipboard and the drivers all think they won’t end up like Ceausescu or Mussolini.

                I honestly cant understand why people cant live their lives and leave everyone else the fuck alone.

          2. The long march through the institutions has long since concluded and people really do believe that the “Western white male capitalist colonialist patriarchy” is axiomatically worse than anything else.

            Because they can afford to. That Western white male capitalist colonialist patriarchy has delivered them unparallelled wealth, safety, security, and luxury. So much so that many people imagine such is the natural state of the world. And like spoiled teens railing against their parents, they can safely ignore where all those things come from.

      2. Europe doesn’t seem to be getting the ME’s best and brightest, either.

        1. Why do you hate widows and orphans Rhywum? Why?

  16. Spot-The-Astroturf Agitators Contest = ‘Citizens Upset at Federal Land Potentially Transferred Back to States

    The strongest argument seems to be someting about how the Federals can ‘afford’ conservation (aka ‘leaving it alone’) while the states is teh poors, and will surely sell them off to Evil Cartoon Logger-Barons and Oilmen.

    1. From a conservation standpoint, pluralistic democracy is a serious problem.

      The National Park Service in Yosemite isn’t just responsive to the interests of conservationists; it’s also responsive to the interests of tourism. The purpose of the Fish & Wildlife Service isn’t just to protect endangered species like the California Sea Otter from industry; it’s also to protect the sushi industry from California Sea Otters. The purpose of the Bureau of Land Management isn’t just to protect Mustangs from ranchers; it’s also to protect the interests of ranchers from Mustangs.

      If you’re someone who really thinks ANWR is important enough to conserve, why would you want it conserved by the government of a pluralistic democracy that’s not only concerned with protecting wildlife from oil companies but also concerned with protecting the low price of oil from conservationists. Do conservationists only want conservation when the price of oil is low and conservation is relatively popular?

      The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that politicians care about us more than other voters.

      Even if they don’t want to auction the land off to the highest bidder, from a conservation perspective, giving it to private charities like the Nature Conservancy would be better than letting the Park Service or some other dman government entity administrate it.

  17. My guess as to what is warming the ocean? Hot lava from Hawaii volcano

    My favorite part of the video: the park ranger lady saying that you can’t push a stroller out there.

    1. Loihi is probably causing more warming. Just need to dive a few thousand feet to see it.

      1. There’s some interesting stuff down there.

    2. Crusty, you’ve been told that we don’t want to see Hillary’s vagina.

      1. No. That isn’t a thing like lava. It’s cold. So very, very cold.

  18. Do-gooders

    The price of admission is steep: For a $20,000 annual membership fee, corporations and nonprofits can secure an invitation for their top executive to mingle with the likes of Angelina Jolie, Bill Gates and Queen Rania of Jordan, while brainstorming projects to address problems ranging from poverty and climate change to elephant poaching.

    The CGI event, which is timed to coincide with the United Nations General Assembly, has traditionally been a more glamorous version of the proceedings a few blocks away, drawing Nobel laureates, Hollywood celebrities, leading CEOs and heads of state. The meetings have “convened more than 190 sitting and former heads of state” since they started in 2005, according to the foundation’s website.

    “To wind down something that is that substantive and that impactful is not easily done,” said Clinton campaign and foundation donor Jay Jacobs. “? Whatever hits, unfair as they may be, may come the way of President Clinton or the candidate Hillary, or the foundation, there are some things that just transcend politics.”

    Nothing demonstrates the depth and breadth of one’s concern for one’s fellow man as hobnobbing with la creme at a star-studded gala. Transcending politics, indeed.

    1. You heartless bastard – they’re “addressing problems”!

      1. the principal problem seems to be ‘how to bribe public officials by making it look like no one is bribing anyone’.

        Give money to preferred charities, charities pay Bill Clinton a quarter-million to speak for 20mins, wash rinse repeat

        1. The Clintons have perfected the ‘hide your scandals in plain sight’ thing. The Obama administration has even taken notes over the years.

          I’ll give the Clintons credit. No politician had come up with such an innovative scheme to collect their graft. They can break any and all campaign finance laws to include those against taking foreign donations, and their lapdogs will just explain it away until Americans are numb to it all.

    2. I wonder how many people will take private jets to this, then proceed to howl about how everyone else needs to sacrifice for the good of Gaia.

  19. Current and former sponsors include corporations in heavily regulated industries that stand to benefit from favorable government relations, from banking to pharmaceuticals to energy.
    Twenty-nine of the 30 Dow Jones Industrial Average index companies have been linked to the Clintons’ sprawling charities, Bloomberg reported in 2014. Twenty-five contributed to the foundation, and 27 committed to charitable projects through the Clinton Global Initiative, according to the report. UnitedHealth Group Inc. was the single holdout.

    Coincidence. Nothing to see here.

    1. UnitedHealth Group Inc. was the single holdout.

      Good for them.

      1. They probably gave for the last 30 years, but realized it didn’t help them at all when the ACA reamed them.

  20. Never Can Say Goodbye = Japan Refuses to Let Go of Ageing Boy-Band

    TOKYO ? For nearly three decades, millions of Japanese have clamored for their every album, lined up with breathless anticipation for their concerts and gathered on Monday nights for their hit television show.

    Now, the nation is awash with anguish over word that SMAP ? Japan’s longest-running boy band, if it can still be called that with its youngest member pushing 40 ? is splitting up.

    The news has dominated newspaper headlines and television talk shows since the band’s announcement this month. Even the mayor of Tokyo and two members of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s cabinet have weighed in. One said he was worried about the effect on the Japanese economy, the world’s third-largest.

    “We will not let them stop!” a grieving fan wrote in one of more than a dozen petitions on change.org pleading with the aging heartthrobs to remain together. “If we let them go and disband, it means Japan is finished.”

    I was reminded of this.

      1. Strange soundtrack.

        Japan’s version of the “virgin suicides”? Its a bizarre theme for any kind of story. Its gross and depressing, but its not like a horror movie. just pointless.

        At least the depiction in “Letters from Iwo Jima” was actually an attempt at understanding a historical reality. (*tho i don’t know to what degree the hand-grenade thing was the common m.o.) The idea that it was sort of a peer-pressure thing in the face of impending capture by the enemy makes at least some sense. and that most weren’t doing it enthusiastically so much as ‘hopelessly’.

        1. “Its gross and depressing, but its not like a horror movie. just pointless”

          Which sums up most of Japan’s cinematic output for the last 20 years. You’re right about the film but the odds are there will be a bump of teen suicides after that band breaks up. One of the inspirations for that movie is the unusually high rates of suicdes, especially of teens, in Japan.

    1. I think we went a bit too far after WW2 in emasculating Japan.

      1. I think we went a bit too far after WW2 in emasculating Japan.


        I’ve read a bit about McArthur’s post-war occupation & economic reforms. Aside from disarmament, what exactly ’emasculated’ them? If anything, there was an enormous economic potential unleashed by stripping a lot of the rigid social-structures away.

        1. Yeah, and the Japanese don’t seem very macho. That is not at all the same thing as not masculine. I have met some Japanese soldiers that were rock-solid badasses, they just didn’t go around flaunting it.

          It would be a mistake to think they are emasculated. We did away with samurai culture but the Japs still have spine, trust me.

          1. My anecdote: I used to work hotels until ca. 2000 and the young (say, 20-something) male Japanese tourists were each and every one the wiltiest fops you have ever seen. I guess they got the job done but I had no idea what the ladies were seeing in them.

            1. Yep there are plenty of those, but I repeat – it is a mistake to think they are all that way. It is a tiny little island surrounded by giants. It isnt a sovereign nation for no reason.

              1. Good – they’ll probably need some fortitude given the imperial ambitions of one or two of their neighbors. Just so long as keep their own in check this time.

    2. Now, the nation is awash with anguish over word that SMAP ? Japan’s longest-running boy band, if it can still be called that with its youngest member pushing 40 ? is splitting up.

      They’ve got the power.

    3. “Sports Music Assemble People”


      This whole story is further evidence that Japan is more inscrutable than anybody thought.

  21. Someone Didn’t Get The Memo = Judge Orders Clinton To Submit New, Written Testimony On Reasons For Email Server

    WASHINGTON ? A federal judge on Friday ordered Hillary Clinton to provide written testimony under oath about why she set up a private computer server to send and receive emails while secretary of state, ensuring that the issue will continue to dog her presidential campaign until the eve of the election.

    In a brief ruling issued on Friday afternoon, the judge, Emmet G. Sullivan of Federal District Court in Washington, approved a motion by the conservative advocacy organization Judicial Watch to pursue its vigorous campaign to expose Mrs. Clinton’s use of the private server. In addition to requiring her testimony in writing, the judge allowed the group to depose a senior State Department aide who had warned two subordinates not to question her email practices.

    Caveat for anyone expecting bombshells

    Significantly, perhaps, he ordered Mrs. Clinton to submit her answers within 30 days of that deadline, meaning she could delay her answers until after the election. The deposition of the senior aide, however, will take place by Oct

    1. I cant wait to see what she writes. My guess; complete gibberish. A word salad that cant be interpreted to mean anything whatsoever.

      1. She won’t write shit.

  22. OT: I just got into it with someone about Obama screwing bond holders over GM. I normally stay clear from these things but he was pushing all the wrong buttons.The prog puke actually told another person he had no sympathy for investors because they *knew* there were red flags with the unfunded liabilities and that in the end, a judge (who knows better than us he said) sided with Obama. I asked him about SS and its unfunded liabilities and if that was of concerned to his sorry Democrat ass (he admitted he was a Democrat). Another chimed in saying it was ‘karma’ for some reason – asshole.

    They were also all over defending Hillary and that somehow everything she’s done is legit.

    What a bunch of selective lunatics.

    1. The prog puke actually told another person he had no sympathy for investors because they *knew* there were red flags with the unfunded liabilities

      I’ve had 1000s of conversations with people about their superficial impressions of ‘Wall St’ stuff.

      I used to be surprised at the depth of misconception/misunderstanding/myths/etc. Now its more of an expectation.

      What’s funny is that it seems like many people actually grok the nature of “equity” pretty quickly. Which is odd because it should actually be more-complicated (particularly the threat of dilution via new issue, merger, other things)

      But they really, really, really, have fucking problems with debt/credit. They really don’t understand the whole concept of how it works as a “market”. They don’t understand w the incentives of each party, or why debt can be traded, or differences between secured/unsecured, callable, why/how credit ratings work … anything really.

      they seem to fail to grasp the entire underlying idea of how banks work, really. there’s just this vague impression that they’re so many Scrooge McDucks sitting on their piles of money and ‘gambling’ in the economy with it.

      1. Can’t disagree with any of that.

        One guy said something along the lines of ‘so what Hillary got paid for speaking at GS. At least she gave it to charity and it worked to lower GS profits.’

        They publicly showcase their ignorance and good luck explaining to them reality. This was the link:


        Socialists are quite possibly the most dangerous people in the world.

      2. they seem to fail to grasp the entire underlying idea of how banks work, really.

        The money isn’t in the vault; it’s in Mr. Smith’s house, and Mr. Jones’ house, and the house of everybody who has a mortgage.

        [Depositors start attacking one another, telling them to give back the money.]

        1. The money isn’t in the vault

          That’s sort of what i mean. they don’t really understand that forcing banks to take losses on X just means that someone else in the world is going to pay-more for their loans.

          this issue came up most often when the OWS kids were demanding that “All debt be erased”. I kept trying to explain to them that w/o debt, hardly anyone would own a house or drive a car (or be able to fund granny’s pension) etc.

          1. Its funny – but they don’t care. See, they want debt erased now because *they have debt now*.

            They don’t care that this will make it orders of magnitude harder for everyone else in the future. After all, what has future me done for me except lounge around spending all the money I earn. Fuck that guy.

            So five years later, when you need to have 80% of the purchase price before anyone will even look at you for a car or house loan, they’ll just scream for more government intervention to save them from the stupid mistakes government should have prevented them from making in the first place.

            But its never their fault.

            1. We must talk about the future, for that is where we will all spend the rest of our lives.

              1. Not me. I’ll be dead by tomorrow and some other bastard will have to deal with the consequences of my choices today.

            2. I don’t know if this country will survive the millenials. I’m dead serious about this.

              Every generation has been encumbered with a proportion of helpless/lazy people who need to be supported by the rest to avoid social unrest, but I don’t think it’s ever been as high a proportion as with this generation.

  23. El Pollo Loco. I love their food. Chicken, done right! Their side dishes are quite good as well, pinto beans, cole slaw.

    1. With a name like Ecoli, I would have guessed that you frequent a different “Mexican” fast casual food chain.

      1. Not all E coli are pathogenic. I have never been to Chipotle.

  24. Article Intends to Create Sympathy For The Problems of Millenials, Instead Inspires Head-Shaking Disbelief

    Musical-theater graduate moves to Very Expensive City with zero skills: problems ensue. Society, History is blamed. Now attends free-training program provided by huge corporations. Corporations probably also blamed.

    …very little in the world around Ms. Boshart has led her to feel a sense of comfort and ease: not the soaring costs of living in Seattle, not the whirlwind roar of reinvention in the tech world, certainly not the barbed clamor of national politics. …. Millennials have postponed marriage and decisions about where to live and what careers to pursue, the Federal Reserve study said, far longer than previous generations, often out of economic necessity.

    Funny – you’d think people would get married *sooner* & dive into career *faster* if it were truly ‘necessity’.

    Now, from niche anxieties like genetically modified crops to defining ones like climate change, questions feel open-ended and unprecedented: Is the food we eat still food? How do you get your head around a threat to the entire planet?

    1. “Disbelief” is deadly accurate here. I mean, really?

    2. Funny – you’d think people would get married *sooner* & dive into career *faster* if it were truly ‘necessity’.

      This is exactly what I did. I married right after college, worked for a couple years in random odd jobs, and then went to law school (where I did pretty well) and have started my career as a lawyer. I’m not living exactly where I want to live, but my salary matches the median income for my state.

      The Millennials’ problem is that they all want to live and work in large cities with over-saturated job markets.

    3. Apparently ‘career’ is supposed to be something that you gradually migrate to once you’ve ‘found yourself’ rather than that thing you went to college to learn how to do in the first place.

    4. Entitled shits discover reality. Experience anxiety over non-existent bullshit. News at 11.

      *Seriously, a musical theater degree? WTF?

      1. I’m remindedd of the post here about the interns who banded together and all but one signed a petition of their collective demands upon the company who paid for their internship.

        One of their demands had to do with the dresscode IIRC and one of their bitches was that one person was allowed to flaunt the dress codes but they weren’t. When told tha tht person had had a leg/foot blown off in the ME and was allowed to wear whatever footwear they needed to so that they could walk the response was, ” well if we had been told that we would have taken it into our demands”.

        All except the one who” didn’t sign were fired.

        I laurfed so loud upon reading that. These little snowflakes have been coddled on campus so long with *safe spaces* and the like. It was refreshing too see them hit their heads on the real world.


        This is the best part.

        ” The proposal was written professionally like examples I have learned about in school, and our arguments were thought out and well-reasoned. ”

        She learned about it in SCHOOL.

        1. I remember that one. It certainly was worth a good laugh.

          The people who put those children in that position need a good ass whippin’.

    5. These are hilarious.

      These people put out these articles and then end up completely flabbergasted when everyone is laughing at them.

      1. In the dot-com crash of the early 2000s, her family lost the college savings they had been putting aside for her.

        I’m confused. How do you lose the *savings* you were ‘putting aside’ in the Dotcom Crash unless you *invested* that money and weren’t *saving* it at all? If you were saving it, it would have been in low-risk, low-payout investments at the worst. It sounds more like daddy thought he was on a hot streak and bet the house and lost when he didn’t read the market right.

        1. most 529 college-savings plans don’t let you invest in anything higher-risk than 50/50 (debt/equity) unless the kid is under the age of 10

    6. How do you get your head around a threat to the entire planet*?

      Clearly, the generations that came of age during The Cold War never experienced any similar existential anxiety….

      …*wait a second*….

      That’s the sort of claim i often see being made about Generation Super-Special = that they have a set of *unique* problems… as though no other group of people ever suffered through even-mild recessions, or debt issues, or war, or technological disruptions of the economy….

      which are all things EVERY FUCKING PERSON EVER has dealt with, and not only dealt with them? They usually dealt with them while the prior generation spit on them as the lazy ungrateful bastards they were for not having put up with things like “Widespread Polio” or “World War” or racial discrimination or… etc etc. etc.

      The truth is the opposite of their gripe = they have less problems than anyone in history. and yet their collective core-skill seems to be “bitching about minor inconveniences and their own bad-planning as other people’s/institution’s fault”

      (*and never mind that “climate change” – even were it real – isn’t even a ‘threat’ to anything in their own lifetimes, so much as a potential far-flung-future speculative inconvenience which will still happen at a very-adaptable pace)

    7. How do you get your head around making up threats to the entire planet because otherwise you feel unimportant?

  25. This would have been a helluva thing to see


    1. Holy shit, a train car full of NaOH fell in the river?!

      Yikes. Don’t go swimming there.

      1. Just pour some HCl in there

    2. At least there’s no rxn between chlorate & alkali.

  26. OK, Reason, would you please eliminate the Promoted Comments function? It seems Kizone Kaprow is hellbent on shitting all over them; they’re totally pointless.

    1. If you use Adblock (and everyone should), go to “Filter Preferences” and add ‘Solidopinion.com’ to “Add Filter”.

      presto = no more promoted comments.

    2. If the trolls will actually subscribe to a model that eventually has them paying to troll, I think that’s awesome.

      That’s a libertarian, market based solution, baby!

      It’s like in business office management, the smokers used to congregate around the entrance to the building when on break and such. Non-smokers hated walking through the haze on the way in and out.

      So, you set up a nice looking bench area with landscaping around it, etc., where you want them to smoke–and you put up a big sign that says, “Designated Smoking Area”. You also put up a sign next to the entrance that says, “Smoking permitted in Designated Smoking Area Only”. You don’t actually arrest the smokers for ignoring the sign, but you don’t have to–if you give them their own area where they’d rather be anyway.

      Trolls want to be noticed more than anything else. If you give them a Designated Trolling Area, and they’re less likely to infest the rest of the thread because they got their “Look at Me, everybody, I’m a troll” rocks off–and Reason is, furthermore, able to monetize that behavior?

      That’s fucking ingenious.

      1. I concur.

        still, the adblock thing is nice too.

      2. give them their own area where they’d rather be anyway

        The smoking corrals I’ve seen were usually not where anyone would want to be. “Around back”, “behind the dumpster”, etc.

        1. In Heathrow in the early 2000s…. they had these “plastic boxes” on the sides of walkways, away from the actual boarding areas, where people could smoke inside. They were narrow and maybe fit 3 people across, and 10 people long. They felt like prison cells. Here’s a shot like what i remember. “Cancer cages”. There were completely unventilated, which seemed to me intentional more than a logistical problem. I suppose no matter where they piped the air it was going to stink up somewhere else so they figured fuck it, keep it localized.

          1. Heh, I’ve waited in a few of those.

        2. And I’m sure their results were less than they would have been otherwise.

          Good property management is worth a couple percent of NOI.

      3. Wow, way to ruin a good thing. Like the Borg, trolls have the ability to analyze and adapt.

    3. What are promoted comments?

  27. Protesters push, spit on Trump donors at Minn. fundraiser

    I’m no Trump supporter, but the ability of the various leftist professional protest groups to put something like this together at the drop of a hat has to be concerning to anybody who cares about freedom in this country. If they behave like this when their victory in the election is already virtually certain, how will they act if we ever get remotely close to rolling back the expansion of government?

    1. the ability of the various leftist professional protest groups to put something like this together at the drop of a hat


      plus associated communist student groups

      1. recall the ‘organized protests’ against Nail Salons in NYC?

        that “healthy nail salons NY” organization came into being nearly-simultaneously with the release of that bullshit ‘expose’ in the NYT.

        and who is behind that org?

        NYOSH (NY occupational safety & health)… which is made up of whom?


        Lee Clarke, Assistant to the President, District Council 37, Local 1549, AFSCME, AFL-CIO


        Wendy Hord, Health and Safety Specialist, New York State Union of Teachers
        Steve Mooser, Director of Safety and Health, RWDSU/UFCW

        At-Large Members
        Eno Awotowe, Board Member, Retail Action Project
        Janet Foley, Director of Safety and Health, Civil Service Employees Association
        Jemma Marie Hanson, Regional Coordinator for Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island, Public Employees Federation Region 11
        Lawrence J. McNeil, Business Manager, Service Employees International Union Local 56
        Guillermina Mejia, Director of Safety and Health, AFSCME District Council 37
        Earl Phillips, Director of Safety and Health, Transport Workers Union Local 100
        Diane Stein, Safety and Health Coordinator, International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 237

        This is how the left can often have protestors at the drop of a hat. Many of them probably collect overtime.

        1. Hmm, looks like the people who were “strikers” (according to the Chron) at the local fat-food joints whining for a wage which will put people out of work.

          1. The entire thing is a shakedown to try and force the chinese nail-salons into unions.

        2. american socialist remembers

    2. They’ll bring out the woodchippers.

  28. I read that obnoxious NYT “millenials” thing the other day. I was not moved to sympathy.

    Good grief. What a bunch of pathetic self-tormenting little ninnies. I particularly liked the one who worries herself sick every time she goes anywhere crowded because she imagines teh Homicide Bomber is stalking her.

    1. Luckily, not all of us are like that.
      I mean, most are. But I’m not.

      Now give me applause for not needing attention!!!

  29. I just got into it with someone about Obama screwing bond holders over GM

    That fucking little douchebag Rattner had a thing in the Times the other day about how Trump, Romney, et al were completely wrong about the GM bailout. The “proof”?

    “Look how profitable they are!”

    It’s easy to show a profit if you just throw your bills in the trash.

  30. A different sort of pundit

    Last October, you said you expected to see the “funniest election of all time” unfold this year. Are you still laughing?
    Oh, yeah. It’s funny in a Kurt Vonnegut kind of way. It’s also funny and kind of seriously demented that nobody wants to vote for a candidate; they want to vote against the other candidate. I can’t think of anybody that’s going, “I really like Hillary. I’m going to vote for her.” No, it’s: “I’m voting for Hillary ’cause I hate Trump.” Or it’s: “I hate Trump, but I hate her worse.” Nobody’s actually for anybody.

    Alice Cooper for President.

      1. fuck. can’t even spell the monkey’s name right

        1. Ducks out for Harabe!

    1. “Nobody’s actually for anybody.”

      Somebodies must have been for them – the two cretins won their primaries didn’t they?

  31. Have you met any presidents?
    I met President Ford. Groucho Marx got me into the Friars Club, and I was always the only rocker at the Friars Club meetings; it was all comedians like Jerry Lewis and Bob Hope. But I would sit there and there would be presidents talking to Bob Hope, and they would call me over, and I’d say, “Mr. President. Mr. Hope.” And they’d go, “I’m pushing the ball to the right, what should I do?” All they were talking about was golf. I’d say, “Well, just relax your right hand and it’ll make the club turn over more.” It was so weird to me that it didn’t matter that I was a rock singer and that was the president and that was Bob Hope. What mattered was, how do you turn the ball over a little to the left? It’s really interesting that golf cuts through everything.

    All you need is love golf.

  32. Hi All

    I’m a mosttimes lurker sometimes poster for about 15 years now.

    I know this place can be a bit dead on Saturdays, but maybe youre bored enough to help me?

    I’ve got a Q&A going over at Reddit for me new book and I could use some questions.The reason comments have always been a good source of literary/scifi/fantasy talk so I think you guys will like it.

    (Plus you guys can always open it in another browser ta so you don’t have to leave reason and get Matt and Nick mad.)

    Hop on over to https://www.reddit.com/r/books. Its about 15 posts down. (I’d try to link direct but I always SF that stuff.)

    1. It’s the Author Spotight for Children of the Spider

    2. You SFed the link regardless, but because you are a fellow Pratchett fan and have posted pictures of your puppy, I feel generous

      AMA link.

      1. Thank you merciful Spanish bread god. (That’s what Pan Zagloba is, right?)

        1. While the idea of being a bread god would have tickled my fictional counterpart, he’s a Falstaffian character from Henry Sienkiewicz’s historical romance Trilogy (By Fire And Sword; The Deluge; Pan Wolodiewsky) dealing with Poland’s wars of 1648-1698.

          Your book is not yet available at Amazon.ca but I’ve added it to wishlist.

          1. Cool. I may visit Toronto next year. I’ll sign it for you. BTW, I’m having a hard time keeping track of the changing aliases around here. Did you have another name? I used to note the Canadian libertarians because I lived a year in Toronto back i 2008.

            1. IIRC, Pan’s *slightly* further west than Toronto…

  33. Harambe- that was the gorilla in Cincinnati, right?

    When I saw that story, all I could think of was this
    (beginning roughly at 4:05)

  34. “Suggesting that blacks stop being Democrats or Liberals would be a waste of my time, but what I am suggesting is that we require white liberals to do more than pat us on the head and tell us they know better.”

    Actually, yes. You should stop being Democrats. They’re not liberals – they’re progressives. Liberalism is dead.

    Also, what I find immensely startling is every single thing she says in the article has been asserted by conservatives, men like Friedman and Sowell, women like Star Parker and, of course (take a bow) libertarians for decades.

    Yet, they still can’t come to realize this.


    1. , what I find immensely startling is every single thing she says in the article has been asserted by conservatives, men like Friedman and Sowell, women like Star Parker and, of course (take a bow) libertarians for decades.

      Someone else posted it in the PM links a few days ago, i reposted it… and my reaction was,

      “i feel guilty for being suspicious that some conservative simply handed her this, pre-written”

      Because you’re right = everything she says has been pointed out for decades.

      Its just amazing that it actually finally seems like someone “gets it” – and yet the reaction is still crickets. 3K hits in 4 days? Apparently this isn’t getting a lot of sharing-traction on Google News or Facebook.

    2. “My favorite is declaring with surprise how articulate a black classmate is . . .”

      Yeah, I’ma call bullshit here. Nobody does that shit. Nobody’s done that shit for at least a generation because nobody born after 1970 in the US would expect you to be anything other than at least as ‘articulate’ as they are.

      This has ‘all the returning soldiers were spit upon!’ written all over it. Might have happened, but its so irregular that the vast majority of people would only have heard of it second hand at best.

      1. Nobody does that shit. Nobody’s done that shit for at least a generation because nobody born after 1970 in the US would expect you to be anything other than at least as ‘articulate’ as they are.

        Joe “Tastes Like Shoe Leather” Biden, 2007

        WASHINGTON (CNN) — Sen. Joe Biden planned to spend Wednesday focusing on his official announcement that he was running for president, but the Delaware Democrat instead found himself defending remarks he made to the New York Observer about his Democratic opponents.

        In the article published Wednesday, Biden is quoted evaluating presidential rivals Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, former Sen. John Edwards, D-North Carolina, and Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois. His remarks about Obama, the only African-American serving in the Senate, drew the most scrutiny.

        “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” Biden said. “I mean, that’s a storybook, man.” (Watch Biden’s comments and Obama’s reaction Video)

        No one was actually offended until they were told to be. But its still pretty awesome

    3. Ugh.

      This is the perfect place to put an excerpt from T. Sowell’s ‘Wealth, Poverty and Politics’ regarding racism but at the moment I am too drunk to transcribe it.

      I highly recommend the book btw. It is classic Sowell. He is very articulate, cuts to the chase but written so that a 10 year old can follow it. Pick it up and you cant put it down.

    4. You’re right.

      Even looking at politics in a purely self-interested way, they should stop being democrats.

      In economics, you would study this as game theory, where a mixed strategy is more effective, over the long term, than a single strategy.

      So, until it stops being taken for granted that they’re going into a voting booth and pulling the ‘D’ lever regardless of what happens, we should probably get used to cops killonf black men, and riot police.

      Suboptimality, for sure.

  35. Where the hell are the secular home school curricula?? I swear we move to an are w/ shitty schools and there’s nothing for you if you want to go it alone and ain’t a professed fundie… to include a ‘statement of faith’ as part of the application where you agree that teh gayz are sinnerz!, etc.

    1. Where is the difficulty with adapting a ‘fundie’ curricula to secular needs?

      Outside of evolution they seem to pretty much accept the same physical and mathematical laws as the rest of us.

      In any case, seems like a market opportunity.

      1. Problem is we’re trying to find a program that has some occasional face-to-face/socialization opportunities, but we’re in a conservative/remote area and literally the last one my wife got an application for asks you to acknowledge that homosexuality is a sin, yada, yada and how often you attend church, what church and a phone number for some who can validate the above info. She called the president to relay our situation and how we’re open to exposing our son to all beliefs and they basically said, ‘yeah, this probably isn’t a good fit. kthxbai’. I can see why “bigot” is routinely tossed around in reference to these people, especially when you specifically tell them you want to expose your son to other ideas.
        We’re planning on going with an ‘independent learning center’ type, charter school that meets once a week, but the wife was trying to merge w/ the aforementioned local christian homeschool group for a little wider network and more opportunities.

        1. Got it. I thought you were just talking about the classroom stuff alone.

      1. And for science education there’s always this.


        1. Is there a way to get ocean tidal predictions for a given point on the coast?

          ???- from Bob Campagna of Mt. Vernon, IA
          You could check the world wide web, but I imagine you’d have a hard time separating the wheat from the chaff. After wading through every high school kid’s home page mention of the ocean, as well as every link to the laundry detergent ‘Tide’, you’d still end up with something you couldn’t rely on. No, if I were you, I’d check the Farmer’s Almanac, or maybe the Magic 8 Ball. You could ask yourself a question before you fall asleep at night, and see if you get a portentous dream. Any way would be more reliable than the Web.


          Dr. Science! sucks.

          1. Dan Coffey is great.

      2. Yeah, that scratches the itch, but see above. Being in a somewhat remote area (and on a military base) we just didn’t find any local groups for those kinds of support and opportunities.

    2. Where the hell are the secular home school curricula??

      What? Has Salman Khan been slipping in Hanafi theology into his videos again?

  36. Gavin today =

    10 Examples of Life Imitating Mr Show

    I mention it because i like Mr Show, and it was in my feed

    1. 1) Metallica are lame.
      2) Notice the guy at the end asking ‘where’s a firefighter?’ as if they’re *supposed* to just be there.

      I’m at the point I can’t even intellectualize it anymore.

  37. Looks like the Dallas firemen and cops’ pension is majorly fucked.

    I know, it’s Zerohedge but it’s well-sourced.

    I would like to see all of these gov worker pensions implode and not be bailed out and not be replaced. That would take a lot of the shine off of the idea of being a gov worker.

    1. Don’t most cops and firefighters get a pension after 20 years? How can that arrangement ever work?

      1. Because they can loot more money from the taxpayers.

        1. Here’s another rhetorical question…

          Why do voters tolerate paying these people to do nothing for forty-odd years?

          1. Oh, they don’t do nothing. They promptly get a job at the federal level and then collect *that* pension after 20 years.

  38. Random observation. I went for a lengthy drive here in the Phoenix area. I made it a point to look for campaign bumper stickers.

    1 Trump sticker.

    That was it. Out of hundreds of cars, just one sticker.

    So from my totally unscientific survey, I conclude people are not excited about the election.

    1. The only people who are excited are supporting Trump.

    2. I saw a Bernie sticker today on a Lexus SUV.

      I feel certain it was the non working wife of a husband who could afford to have his wife drive a Lexus but only because he doesn’t have to pay 75% of his income in taxes.

    3. Political bumper stickers are, and have always been, all about signaling. Highly unlikely that anybody decides to vote for a candidate because they saw a bumper sticker.

    4. You’ve got two of the most unliked candidates in the nation’s history running for President. It’s a lot more likely that people don’t want their tires slashed or windows broken.

  39. Robbers locked in store while crowd gathers to laugh at them. It’s NJ so cops never show up.


    1. “Paterson police say they are conducting an internal investigation into how that happened.

      The robbers remain at-large.”

      I once saw an interview with a psychologist who had conducted a survey that showed that the average IQ of people in prison was below 85. The reporter asked him “Does this mean that criminals are stupid?”. He looked into the camera with a deadpan face and said “No, that is not what it means at all. ” Then he turned and walked away.

      I nearly pissed myself laughing.

      1. That is funny. Lol.

      2. It means the ones who get caught are stupid.

        1. I interpreted it as “people in prison” including guards and administrators.

  40. What is ‘food safety’ anyway?

    Surely the issue is health of the population which by many measures hasn’t been improving of late. Food and eating habits are part of the problem no matter what the surveys tell you.

    1. Wear anti-knife wound gloves and a helmet.

    1. I am not a Harley guy. To me a motorcycle looks like a coffin on wheels, but goddamned, going after HD is cutting at the heart of America. How much of this shit are people going to take?

      Disband the fucking EPA.

      1. I’m glad you’re not a Harley guy.

        I broke down near a Harley dealer between Zion National Park and Las Vegas a few weeks ago. It was the only thing in town besides a couple of gas stations and a fast food restaurant.

        They didn’t sell tools.

        A motorcycle dealer that doesn’t sell tools is like a gas station that doesn’t sell gas.

        I don’t even think you could buy oil there.

        A twenty-something kid stopped and sold me the tool I needed. He had an extra. He was better stocked than the Harley dealer.

        There are outlaw biker gang types who do their own work, I’m sure. The rest of the Harley riders, not so much.

        Harley makes more money selling apparel than they do bikes, and when the baby boomers die off, Harley Davidson is going to be in a lot of trouble.

        Oh, and selling off road kits for Harleys really is ridiculous. Soccer moms are going off road in their SUVs more often than Harley riders are taking their bikes into the dirt.

        1. Ken, I can speak to that. I used to work at a dealership.

          Harley makes more money selling apparel than they do bikes, and when the baby boomers die off, Harley Davidson is going to be in a lot of trouble.

          Apparel is part of their business model. Merch is high margin compared to bikes or parts. And part of the business model is to keep you coming back to the dealership.

          Regarding boomers, you are absolutely right. HD is a victim of their own success that way. They’ve done an amazing job selling to boomers from the 90s to the 00s. But now, the median age of a new HD buyer is 50 something. Younger riders don’t want an expensive bike that “my dad rides.”

          1920’s tech is a bit harsh. I’ll say it’s 1940 tech. When bikes were carburated, the simplicity was an asset. You did some mods, you could re-tune it with a jet change. With an ECM, not so much.

          They do have a good electric bike prototype. I think they should bring it to market as “This is not your father’s Harley.”

      2. Going after HD is like punching a bald eagle.

        1. No.


          It’s sort of like going after the UAW.

      3. You must have missed the earlier ethanol post – the EPA protects the environment.

    2. The super tuners are supper tuners for trees? Trees love them some hydrogen.

      Why does the EPA hate trees ?

      Aren’t Trees part of the environment?

    3. “This settlement immediately stops the sale of illegal after-market defeat devices used on public roads that threaten the air we breathe,” said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for EPA’s Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance.

      Harley must obtain a certification from the California Air Resources Board for any tuners it sells in the United States in the future.”

      I don’t think this reporter really gets what’s going on.

      This is from 2013 about similar fines:

      CARB is concerned strictly with emissions, not noise (ironic given that everyone seems to think loud Harleys are what led to the crackdown), and wants to ensure that catalysts remain in place. To that end, every aftermarket emissions-related part sold in California now needs an EO (Executive Order) exemption from CARB to be legal for highway use, which is expensive and time-consuming to obtain.

      —-Cycle World


      No one can sell bikes or kits for on-road use in California without a certification from the California Air Resources Board (CARB). The point is that the manufacturers sell kits that say “for off road use only”, but everybody and their brother ignores that and customizes their bike with new exhaust anyway. And that typically requires a new fuel controller and new programming–which the dealers typically need to do for you. Unless you’re an old fogie on a carborated Harley, and then you can do the work yourself–not that Harley riders do their own work.

    4. Anyway, this isn’t about the EPA so much as it’s about California trying to inflict its emissions standards on the rest of the country.

      California represents a huge portion of the motorcycle market in the United States. The cost of testing required to get a new design signed off in California is so high, and you need to be able to sell in California in order to offset the cost of testing.

      It used to be that you’d find various models that the manufacturers just refused to sell in California, but even the resale on those bikes is impacted because if you buy one of those non CARB certified bikes and try to register it in California, the DMV considers that an admission of guilt. The California DMV will send you a notice informing you that you will be fined for every day that bike has been inside the state–and they require you to prove that the motorcycle is no longer physically located within the state before they’ll stop the clock on the fines.

      Many of the bikes we see introduced in Europe but not brought to the United States are kept out simply because they don’t think they can sell enough of that model either a) to justify the cost of certification by California or b) because they don’t think they can sell enough models in the U.S.A. outside of California.

      And many of those bikes could pass the California tests easily (see link below), but the number of sales wouldn’t justify the cost of testing.


    5. And CARB gets to OK sales of products in states other than California? Would be nice if some state AG would file suit against the EPA and California. Throw in a conspiracy and racketeering charge too.

      1. Yeah, i was wondering this. Why not just get your bike (and parts) in Nevada, and never tell CA boo about what you’ve done? Unless they’re snooping for certain bullshit in registration?

        1. I spoke to precisely this above.

          It’s about market share and the viability of various models.

          The real issue is that Harley can’t make a living selling motorcycles just outside of California, so all their bikes (and aftermarket parts) need to be certified by CARB.

          Last time I looked, California represented a monstrous share of all the new bikes sold in the U.S. There’s this thing called economy of scale. Chop, say, 40% off the top of your potential market size, and your per unit costs are going up. And that’s already a problem for Harley.

          Kids aren’t willing to pay a premium for 1920s technology already, why would they pay ever more per Harley to get a fogie bike?

          1. It’s not just that. This settlement with the EPA requires Harley to get CARB approval for all products, not just ones sold in California, according to the article. It’s a backdoor way to get CARB and their more stringent regulations imposed on the entire country through the connivance of the EPA, who either lacks the authority or is prohibited by existing statute from imposing those sort of regulations directly, under the patina of a “voluntary” agreement by Harley.

            1. Approval by CARB for all tuners sold anywhere, not all products generally.

              1. “It’s not just that. This settlement with the EPA requires Harley to get CARB approval for all products, not just ones sold in California, according to the article.”

                What I was trying to point out above is that this was already the case.

                Again, I’m not sure the person who wrote the article understands what’s really going on.

                I believe they could sell aftermarket exhaust systems and tuner kits in other states–if they “can’t”, it’s mostly because if it isn’t viable for them to sell kits in California, it isn’t viable for them to sell kits period.

                It is already highly unlikely that Harley Davidson sells any other products for road use that haven’t been approved by CARB. And it’s been that way for a long time.

                For the most part, if you’re talking about a motorcycle or aftermarket exhaust or tuner kit, one that’s truly intended for a road motorcycle, then it’s already approved by CARB. If they don’t want to go to the expense of having it approved by CARB, they generally just don’t bring it to the United States.

                1. It was already de facto nationwide regulation by CARB, but this agreement makes it de jure, as far as Harley and their tuners go. That is a difference.

                  And requiring Harley to void warranty agreements if tuners are installed to punish parties who are not part of this agreement is another bullshit move.

            2. The real question may be whether Harley Davidson can sell things that are clearly meant for street use as if they were for off road use and, therefore, not subject to CARB approval in California. Again, I think they theoretically could sell the kits elsewhere in the country. It’s just that a ridiculously large portion of the market for motorcycle and motorcycle stuff is in California. Yes you “can” cut your production by 40%, idle your factory, destroy your economy of scale, etc., but you “can’t” really do that. It’s cost prohibitive and doesn’t make sense.

              Meanwhile, it truly is absurd to think that aftermarket exhausts are used on Harley cruisers that are off road only. If the EPA made a ruling on that basis, they’re probably right. These exhausts and the kits that make them work are not intended for off-road use–by anyone. Not the motorcyclist and not the company. It’s bullshit.

          2. I still don’t get it.

            I mean, i get that Harley would have to implement X technology to sell their bikes in cali. I’m just saying that if people wanted to get around it, couldnt they just buy their non-CARB-approved bike elsewhere and register it in cali?

            I’m also dubious/confused as to how EPA’s regulation (as opposed to their settlement mentioned above) applies specifically to them, as opposed to all motorcycle manufacturers. That would seem to be a violation of the idea that you can’t regulate individual companies…. laws have to be generalized.

            Anyway fuck EPA. seems to me they’re trying to get their shots in before the party’s (possibly) over.

            1. just buy their non-CARB-approved bike elsewhere and register it in cali?

              IIRC, if you move to CA with a vehicle that was orignally sold outside CA, they make you pay a several hundred $ fee to register it.

            2. “I’m just saying that if people wanted to get around it, couldnt they just buy their non-CARB-approved bike elsewhere and register it in cali?”

              Please see my comment above:

              “It used to be that you’d find various models that the manufacturers just refused to sell in California, but even the resale on those bikes is impacted because if you buy one of those non CARB certified bikes and try to register it in California, the DMV considers that an admission of guilt. The California DMV will send you a notice informing you that you will be fined for every day that bike has been inside the state–and they require you to prove that the motorcycle is no longer physically located within the state before they’ll stop the clock on the fines.”

              When you go to register a non-CARB approved bike in California, they take your money at the DMV, but instead of tags for your bike coming in the mail, you get a notice announcing that you are being fined X number of dollars per day until you prove to the DMV that the motorcycle is no longer physically within the state of California. This typically requires a bill of sale from outside the state.

              I’m not kidding.

              1. If the police pull you over in a non-CARB approved bike in California, make sure you have an out of state license, and do not tell them that you have recently moved to California. Tell them that you are just visiting and that you are leaving.

                Do not attempt to register a non-CARB approved bike in California.

                Also, you probably don’t want to register a rocket propelled grenade launcher. They frown on those, too.

                Remember, just because it’s absurd and stupid doesn’t mean it isn’t the truth. We’re talking about the California state government.

                1. so, basically = if you like guns and motorcycles, don’t live in california. Check.

                  1. Riding in CA is good. You can legally split lanes. And drivers know to look for you.

                    1. And there are a lot of great places to ride.

                      There must be 10,000 miles of twisties through the cascades, not to mention along Highway 1 Most fun you can have with my clothes on*. The idiot taxpayers fund CALpers so heavily, too, they make beautifully manicured roads through the mountains coming from nowhere and going to nowhere–and they put call boxes on ’em in case you break down out in the wilderness, too!

                      I’m not kidding about 10,000 of twisties. If I had a $1 trillion, I’d build myself a motorcycle track as big and awesome as California’s rural highway system. I can take twisties all the way from East County San Diego to the Shakespeare Festival in Oregon–and then all the way back to LA, too–without taking the same road twice! Thousand and thousands of miles of manicured twisties!

                      I’m getting hard just thinking about it.

                      Because I don’t wear a shirt when I’m surfing*.

                  2. No, the point is that if you don’t live in California and you like motorcycles?

                    Tough luck. You have to live by California’s regulations anyway.

                2. “The primary focus of enforcement is to ensure that all new vehicles sold, offered for sale, or used in the state are certified for sale in California. Under California’s regulations, a new vehicle (defined as a vehicle that has fewer than 7,500 odometer miles) which is not certified to California’s standards may not be sold within or imported into the state. If such a vehicle enters California, a Notice of Violation (NOV) is issued. The NOV requires that the vehicle(s) be removed from California and that a civil penalty of up to $5,000 per vehicle as authorized under Health and Safety Code Section 43151 be assessed.”

                  —-CARB Webpage


                  The issue is that these regulations are different for off road and on road use.

                  Harley Davidson (and others) sell after market equipment as off road to avoid needing it certified by CARB when they know that no one is using their equipment off road.

                  Further, the issue is that if you took all the profits they make from selling these systems in California, their profits would disappear. So, California’s rules become the de facto rules for the nation.

    6. Old joke:

      A Harley is a device for converting gasoline to noise without the dangerous byproduct of horsepower.

      Older joke:

      What is the difference between a Harley and a Hoover?

      Where the dirt bag is attached.

      1. Did you know that 80% of all the Harleys ever built are still on the road?

        The other 20% finally made it home.

  41. Suggested food safety policy;

    Anything that the Center for Science In the Public Interest is having a cow about?

    Pass a law exempting it from government regulation, forever.

    1. Sometimes being on topic is totally off topic.

      There, I said it.

      1. G. K. Chesterton, you’re alive!

  42. The Fusionist|8.20.16 @ 10:24AM|#

    Victory at Last! Kim Davis Has Won the Fight for Religious Freedom


    Pacifists don’t get to join the Army and say, “I’ll fight the enemies I want to fight.”

    Public servants don’t get to say, “I’ll execute the laws I want to enforce.”

    If you want to select your enemies or your laws, you don’t serve in the military or in public office..

    1. Note: I come from a long line of Quakers, when my people declined to fight our countries “enemies”, they refused to serve, often at great cost to themselves both in their reputations and the freedoms.

      1. This dispute seems to lend itself to question begging.

        Apparently it’s too much effort to explain how it is that the U.S. Supreme Court can rewrite the Kentucky Constitution, which specifically forbids recognition of “same-sex marriage.”

        I mean, if you want to argue that Stephen Douglas was right (in the context of the Dred Scott decision) when he said that the decisions of the Supreme Court were automatically the law of the land, and that Abraham Lincoln was wrong (in the context of the same decision) when he denied this, and that the Wisconsin Supreme Court was wrong when it defied the U.S. Supreme Court and struck down the Fugitive Slave Act – if you want to argue all those things, if you want to show why Stephen Douglas was right to support Dred Scott and why Lincoln was wrong, then by all means *make your argument.*

        Don’t just make assertions and assume everyone is going to automatically agree with you.

        Don’t suppose that larding your rhetoric with moral indignation is going to make you more persuasive in the absence of any evidence.

        1. I suppose it’s the same rationale that explains why the U.S. Supreme Court could rewrite anti-miscegenation laws in a whole bunch of states and “separate but equal” statutes in most of the same states.

          1. More question begging – you’re assuming that the states recognizing only man/woman marriage is totally just the same as the states exiling the Lovings from Virginia for marrying interracially.

            Again – that’s not an argument, it’s simply virtue-signalling, like putting a bumper sticker with an equals sign on your car.

            1. Name one harm that allowing same sex marriage causes you.

              1. …or anyone else.

                1. Closing of bakeries, fining of bakeries, fining of bed and breakfast establishments, closing of tour companies…oh, you said *one* harm, sorry.

                  Of course, I guess since I don’t own a bakery, tour company, a bed and breakfast, or a tour company, so I guess I’m all right…as long as I pay attention solely to my own selfish interest.

                  1. Oh, I see you went back to pretending that I don’t want to “allow” same sex “marriage” when I specifically said already that same-sex couples should be perfectly free to call themselves married and to have consensual adult private healthy sex.

                    In short, you’re back to straw-manning.

                    1. Sorry, Isaac Bartram, sometimes you’re Godzilla, and sometimes you’re Bambi.

                  2. Eddie is this how you direct your energy in the absence of the ability to have sex? With a human, that is.

                    1. You mom qualifies as human, doesn’t she?

      2. “Religious freedom” for the practitioners of a limited set of religions and under tightly constrained circumstances, tiny American flags for the rest.

      3. Incidentally, there is quite a history, at least in this country, of “your people” holding public office and finessing the issue of war and peace in such a way that their consciences would allow them to keep their offices.

        In New Jersey, when some of the members of the governing council were Quakers, the laws allowed those members to skip meetings where war was discussed in order to avoid (at least so far as their consciences were concerned) direct implication in the fighting.

        In Pennsylvania, during wartime the Quakers in the colonial legislature would vote money for vaguely-defined purposes which the royal government would use for the war – and the Quaker legislators knew this would happen. They phrased the appropriations bill in such a way that they could assure themselves that they were’t *requiring* that the money be spent for war, that was totally the British government’s decision.

        So “your people” have actually benefited, when in office, for flexible arrangements to accomodate their religious scruples, you simply want to pull the ladder up and deny similar accomodations to members of other religious which you consider icky.

        1. I agree, it’s complete hypocrisy.

          Reason was cheering when Obama chose not to enforce the Controlled Substances Act in WA and CO, and chose not to enforce the immigration laws nationwide. But when a lowly clerk chooses to ignore a Supreme Court decision demanding an exercise of government power that Reason likes, suddenly DUH LAW IS DUH LAW!

        2. Here we go, from The Fundamental Constitutions for the Province of East New Jersey in America, Anno Domini 1683

          The government of East Jersey is to be conducted by Proprietors, some of whom are cool with war and some of whom, being Quakers, have conscientious scruples about war, so the pacifist Proprietors only have to decide on whether and where fortifications ought to be erected, and whether the province needs to “be put in a posture of defense.”

          Once those matters are decided, then “all further deliberations about it, as the raising of men, giving of commissions both by sea and land, making Governors of forts, and providing money necessary for maintaining the same, shall belong only to those members of the great Council who judge themselves in duty bound to make use of arms for the defence of them and theirs…And as the refusing to subscribe such acts concerning the use and exercise of arms abovesaid, in the Governor and Secretary, if scrupulous in conscience so to do, shall not be esteemed in them an omission or neglect of duty,” and these acts can be subscribed by prowar proprietors instead.

          So here is an example of “your people” getting an accommodation of their religious scruples, while allowing them to stay in office.

          Game, set, match.

          1. (Strictly, this is about proceedings in a Great Council consisting of the Proprietors (or proxies) and elected representatives)

    2. Public servants don’t get to say, “I’ll execute the laws I want to enforce.”

      And yet you complain when police enforce drug laws and other laws you don’t think should be on the books.

      1. I do?

        1. Or, do I?

    3. Public servants don’t get to say, “I’ll execute the laws I want to enforce.”

      The FBI and DoJ beg to differ.

  43. Obamas only achievement unless you count selling lots of guns.


    1. Speaking of “Public Interest”, and Reason’s sort-of-kind-of insistence that a video of Hulk Hogan boinking someone’s wife was in it….

      The media occupied itself all through 2010-2013 insisting that the American healthcare system was “broken” and that the US was “dead last” by every conceivable measure of ‘bang-per-dollar-spent’.

      …mostly via “Studies” conducted by Dem-affiliated research groups, intending to present a picture of a US healthcare system that was so non-functional that *anything* would be an improvement.

      Yet since … oh, i guess around late 2014/early 2015…. you’d be hard pressed to find ANYONE putting stories about “Obamacare” on the front page.

      Where are the studies showing the cost-savings? the huge benefits delivered to the poorest? The happy doctors who finally feel like they’ve got a system that works?

      I think ISIS was probably a godsend for Obama. But it chaps my @(#*@)( ass that we get all these news stories about things like ‘Trumps Brainfarts’ or ‘Olympic Swimmer Controversy-updates’…

      ….but no one wants to check and see if the “System” is any more or less “broken” than it was in 2010. You’d think something that eats up such a huge slice of American’s paychecks would be given more frequent/regular attention.

  44. You know who else ate food?

    1. Mr. Creosote?

      1. +1 thin waffer

    1. He never said he would become a libertarian.

      1. So, you can vote for the Libertarian candidate for President but not be libertarian.

        I guess it’s like those men who have sex with other men, but they don’t call themselves gay.


        2. Actually i just thought it was funny that

          “Guy Who Would Have Voted For Racist Trump Is Now Upset Because Trump Security Was Racist To Him”

          iow, ‘Everything trump has said about Mexicans and Muslims etc up until now was OK and made him totally a fan, it was just the indignity of being treated like a Mexican that was one-toke over the line’

          I’d love to ask him if he’d be happier if Gary was more “Pro-Wall”

          1. Is he from a family of illegal immigrants?

            1. No, he’s one of the good ones.

              1. I was suggesting that sometimes the legal immigrants are resentful of the illegals.

                1. I was suggesting that the Trump/GayJay overlap is so thin that it seems sort of implausible that he’s actually much interested in the underlying political views of either.

                  Its sort of like those “Why I’m not a libertarian anymore” articles.

                  Or this guy. The “Conversion” is more about the publicity that the underlying reality.

        3. Does voting for a Republican mean you must be a Republican?

          1. No, silly. Only Nolan Charts say anything about people.

    2. Eh, why doesn’t he go back to Indiana?

      /ha ha

    3. Nonsense. I dont believe that happened one bit, and I would bet anything that asshole is voting for Hillary.

      1. This. Hillary’s desperation is showing.

  45. Drudge headline: media shock: Tumo back in lead?

    When the headline is a question, the answer is always “no.”

    1. Rump? Tumor? Trump?

    2. When the headline is a question, the answer is always “no.”

      Betteridge’s Law of Headlines

      Betteridge’s law of headlines is an adage that states: “Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.” It is named after Ian Betteridge, a British technology journalist,[1][2] although the principle is much older. …

      In the field of particle physics, the concept is known as Hinchliffe’s Rule,[10][11] after physicist Ian Hinchliffe,[12] who stated that if a research paper’s title is in the form of a yes?no question, the answer to that question will be “no”.[12] The adage was humorously led into a Liar’s paradox by a pseudonymous 1988 paper which bore the title “Is Hinchliffe’s Rule True?”[11][12]

      1. If this were not true, the headline writer would not phrase it as a question.

  46. Fucked up my knees crawling alongside tracks and suburban doorbells through thorns and lost streets fucking crying to not die in the midst of the FUCKING pill your clever ass dropped in my drink, motherfucker… fuck you, not gonna do down like this, bitch… inside story to tight to deliver, nigga

    1. So when you fuck up your knees, do you take more meds or less?

      1. Tunes vested the entrance, Cd Man

  47. Cops pulled up sweet and respectful-like knowing my joints don’t work and I let the bitches know they boss like kings while the agile piles down broken in the gutter. Cops let me go gently into the wild night. Thank you, Shawnee Ohio Police- peace out. I intended no harm. Brother got took down by a powerful implant from a doctor’s batting eyelashes. Never got to her pool because a million miles of empty hells built on thorns and track echoes spannedd the tween…. but agile lost on the ultimate drug journey to a black widow with a pill too strong… agile fell into the wastelands and almost laid his gentle head on midnight track tonight to lose the demons of velvets bending the mind hells…. when times do not matter life shouldn’t.

  48. Don’t sit crosslegged in a drunken painted wall or your shit in millenial universe might collide with door moons and long dark hallways,…

  49. The ends of looks spit misdirection
    and the turning of backs help no gentle lost fly
    the brazen tall huffapuff strenching the caped moons
    sighs like the creaky boy crawling under the roses
    Times are strint and oftens low as modular moos damning the flapping
    strategies withering under the screeams of failures breaking the bones
    and knees of boys…
    The ends of looks spit the scrambling…

  50. letters alert the alleys of fallen hell

  51. Good grief. We only get one posting on the weekends anymore?

    1. If ages were purely integer years, sure. Maybe he’s 12.75, or 13.6, huh, smart guy?

      1. No, 13. See, when he was told to blow out the candles, he didn’t hear it quite correctly.

        1. “SURPRI…”

          SIGNAL LOST

    2. Religion of peace.

  52. When Hillary’s president, she’ll tax companies moving jobs overseas. Even though there isn’t a sea between us and Mexico. Because super smart policy makers have no time tor language: fuck that shit.

    The speechwriter who tried to switch ‘overseas’ with ‘abroad’ was fired for sexual herassment.

    I don’t know how many times I’ve told these guys to call ‘broads’ ‘chicks’.

  53. Day 2 of our long regional nightmare. No new posts.

    1. This wouldn’t happen if Postrell were still in charge!

      1. Or if Lucy was still writing posts.


    3. What is this, Spain in the ‘thirties?

    4. Trump is saying sensible things and all the gays are now married, so there’s nothing to post about.

  54. Informal survey: Yesterday I took a long MUNI ride through SF. I looked out the window a lot, and tried to see political bumper and window stickers. Total: One Bernie window, two Hillary window, two Hillary bumper. The lack of enthusiasm compared to 2008 and 2012 is palpable.

    1. If you wore a Trump hat on the MUNI, how many dirty looks would you get?

      100% of the passengers, or only 90% ?

      1. Anyone who publicly supported Trump in SF would indeed be asking for trouble. But I suspect the dirty looks would less than 90%. I think that even here, he has more support than is apparent.

    2. Mildly related:

      San Francisco

      San Francisco is one of the top US destinations for white people in terms of both travel and living. It is universally agreeable and is a safe discussion topic for any situation.

  55. Gary Johnson promises Mitt Romney a place in his administration, probably breaking the law.

    Is it just me, or does it seem like the Libertarian Party is now officially represented not even by closet Republicans, but the RINO’s? I was scoffed at for suggesting that Johnson had allowed the party to be co-opted by the establishment bringing in Weld.

    The Johnson strategy – court the most statist of Republicans and Bernie supporters. It’s a sure fired path to freedom!

    1. As the Libertarian ticket is taken more seriously by Americans, their building of a bipartisan cabinet could do wonders. Particularly if they can articulate a legitimate team of thinkers from a wide variety of ideologies, Johnson and Weld can further prove themselves to be the “adults” in the room. In a time where Trump and Hillary Clinton seem more keen on personal attacks and campaign rhetoric, the Libertarians can prove to be more mature and worried about solutions.

      Even though Romney is far from a libertarian, his endorsement and expertise would be extremely valuable to the Johnson campaign and an eventual Presidential administration. Libertarians would likely prefer Romney to stay on the economics side in any advisory role, but nonetheless, his decades of experience and the respect he has earned from many Americans is invaluable to a third-party ticket seeking validation from the many voters looking for a November candidate.


      Josh Guckert is a 24-year-old law school graduate

      Oh. That pretty much explains everything.

      1. You know what will really advance libertarianism? Having the first LP president staff his White House (forget for a second that he would never actually win) entirely with Republicans and Democrats!

        Johnson-Weld ’16 – end the two party system…but simply rearranging the same establishment hacks like deck chairs on the Titanic.

        1. I’m beginning to think Johnson just wanted to raise his profile a bit to get a higher dollar from the next legal pot company he works for.

        2. Well, isn’t it nice to that even though you’re getting served the same shit sandwich, you can at least have another choice of sides?

      2. When they refer to the “mature” and “adult” policies of Johnson/Weld, they refer to things like “abandonment of free-association”, “common sense gun control”, “carbon-taxes”, etc.

        i.e. Anything that suggests capitulation to the left on various policy-grabs.

        ….and not “balanced budgets” or “reduced size of govt”. Those, you see, are ‘extremist ideology’. Anything that actually pretends to some even nominally ‘conservative’ idea is hopelessly extreme.

        1. But Johnson is proposing net cuts, isn’t he?

          Do you think there’s a deliberate strategy here to fuzz the -ism, i.e. to appear non-ideologic because Americans distrust -isms? Or a deliberate lean to the “left” to try to hurt Clinton’s vote total? Or just a matter of Johnson & Weld being true to who they are?

          1. I really think this is about courting the establishment types and building supposed legitimacy in the eyes of Johnson. I think Weld is an opportunist using the LP to hurt Trump. So I think Johnson is basically kind of a rube. He turned to Weld because of his connections to the donor class. The establishment GOP types are looking to take down Trump and they are willing to humor Johnson to do it.

            To me, this is nothing more than an opportunity to get libertarian ideas out in the mainstream. If those ideas are so watered down and/or poorly expressed, it’s kind of squandering the biggest chance the LP may ever have.

    2. I promise Romney a position in my administration also. Pinkey swear.

  56. Here’s a linky since Reason doesn’t seem to need ad revenue this weekend.

    Driving through Detroit at night. It really is a food desert.


    I can’t do that fancy thing where you replace the url with text.

    My laptop doesn’t have one of those thingys that goes up and makes it a fully automatic link poster.

    1. What was that link supposed to tell me?

      It seemed to be some trumpette complaining that Detroit is full of black people.

      1. I need a shower now.

      2. That Detroit is indeed a food desert ?

        1. There was no mention of ‘Food’ in that montage of drunks, whores, and drug dealers.

          1. There was in my post though.

            Did you see any food stores in the video ?

          2. Duh, that’s why it’s a desert guy? jeez?

            1. Can’t slip anything past this one guys.

    2. You too good to eat at a strip club?

    1. I actually liked Mambo #5.

  57. Chuck Yeager is on Twitter. He apparently answers questions. His responses are witty. He is in his 90s.

    1. Broken link? What a piece of shit you are.

      1. The link was moving faster than the speed of clicks

    2. Morgan Nelsen @apq11235
      @GenChuckYeager do you think Navy pilots are more skilled than AF pilots? They have to land on moving ships…

      Chuck Yeager


      Bill Cimino

      @GenChuckYeager better sign of friendship, flying with you or hunting with you?

      Not asking this senseless question

      Chuck Yeager

      1. Angela@Prof_OwensRN
        today’s youth seem plagued with anxiety, what advice do you have for them?

        Chuck Yeager @GenChuckYeager

        Anxiety over what?

        1. @GenChuckYeager are u going bird hunting this year? What’s your favorite breed of pointing dog? When u were a kid what did you hunt in WV?

          Chuck Yeager ?@GenChuckYeager Probably. Don’t have one. Squirrel. Brains are delicious

          Put Chuck in charge of the reason website.

      2. I like the percentage of Tweets that are “Yes”, “No”, “Sure”, and one word answers which suggest the question is too stupid to waste time with.

        Oh, and anytime he’s asked his impression of some now-dead famous person, he seems to take the question as, “How much of a drunk were they”(and not in a bad way, necessarily)

        1. This twitter page and Iowahawk’s twitter page might make me change my opinion of twitter.

          1. There’s always the racist Trump chick linked above to restore your faith in Twitter.

          2. Yes, both of them sort of act like a very-strong disinfectant/antiseptic

            anything stupid that comes into contact with them just dissolves

  58. Only one post this weekend? Not even a recycled post from the olden days? This place was better when Matt Welch ran it.


    1. I think August is vacation month inside the Beltway.

    2. Their click bait ads not making them enough money for the weekend shift. I don’t have ad blocker but whatever site is running their ads is terrible. You can only trick me with a thumbnail ad with boobs so many times.

      1. I posted my comment from my phone. I don’t have an ad-blocker set up for my phone’s browser. I am sorry to hear they tricked you with boobs. There are better places to see boobs than Reason’s click-bait ads.

  59. Happy Sunday.

    Shouldn’t you people be in church or something?

    1. I belong to the church of Brunch-Drunk Laundry Sundays.

      1. I think I’m going to the church of Bosa Donuts today.

  60. Which one of you guys wrote this comment?

    Also, since I am a millennial, I am incredibly offended by nearly everything in this article Grant, and would appreciate if you would respect my rights and take it down.

    Close, but good enough. We were looking for “Demand you take it down”.

      1. Debates about baseball are like literary criticism of Ikea instruction-manuals.

        1. That is fabulous. I am so stealing that.

    1. Well, at least he invoked his rights to have it taken down.

  61. So I watching the first bit of the Olympics so far since the regular season NFL hasn’t kicked off.

    I first started watching in the last few minutes of the men”s final of indoor volleyball. Now we move onto basketball.

    These numbers aren’t accurate but they are representative.

    5 mins of athletics
    10 mins of commercials
    15 mins of backstory going back to a guys first pets name and how that inspired him to compete when they had to put it down because dad backed over it while moving the car out of the driveway for little Billy to pratice his jump shot.

    He’s doing it for FLUFFY !!!11!

    1. You have to watch it on DVR. Just pause the TV, wait an hour, and come back and watch it sans commercials.

  62. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/opi…..front&_r=0

    There is a shortage of yellow fever vaccine. Lovely. Good thing we don’t spend billions on something called the Center for Disease Control or anything. They have more important things to do. Yellow fever? Who has time for that? Those fat lesbians won’t study themselves you know.


    1. I followed a link from that page about Al Roker being so outspoken about an athlete lies.


      I googled to see if Al had any problem with Hillary’s lies?


      It seems as though Roker’s anger toward liars is quite selective.

      1. I am loath to believe US police in these kinds of situations. Brazilian police? No fucking way. I am with Lochte.

        1. I dunno, but there’s something in the water there.

    2. The idiot US senator of the state I live in was calling for the CDC to be unshackled to “study” “gun violence” in his last I love me mailing.

    3. If only John Lennon had had a yellow fever vaccine.

  63. I’ve been noticing a lot more pearl clutching about porn lately. Are we on the verge of a WOP?


      1. I so would.

    1. This is not very PC, but I have never bought her story. She was out in public and didn’t try and escape or tell anyone? It is not like they chained her in the basement the whole time. And how exactly do you get a 14 year old unwilling girl out of her room without anyone hearing? Sorry, but I don’t buy it.

      That of course doesn’t excuse the sickos who “abducted” her. She met them online or something and went off with them willingly. I do not think for a minute the truth of that story is anything like it has been told publicly. Again, seducing and running off with an underage girl is barely better than forcibly kidnapping one. So, this is in no way intended to excuse the weirdos who were convicted of her abduction. But if porn played a role in it, it was more likely because she was watching it not them.

      1. I believe her story. I think she just didn’t know what to do. I doubt her or her siblings ever had to learn even minimum levels of aggression or assertiveness before then. That can be a liability when you need those traits and never developed them.

      2. And how exactly do you get a 14 year old unwilling girl out of her room without anyone hearing?

        Someone did hear.

        The 9-year-old who shared the room with her sister.

        1. And she didn’t do anything? I guess I can’t fathom anyone being that passive. As JB says above, they were just that passive. Maybe she was but that is seriously fucked up. What the hell kind of parents raise kids to be that damned obedient? The whole thing was always just strange.

          1. What the hell kind of parents raise kids to be that damned obedient?

            Mormons, dude. Mormons.

            1. Mormons are seriously fucked up.


              Have you ever watched that? The Mormons went insane over it because it was the truth that only the “Temple Elect” are supposed to know. It is no better than Scientology and in some ways worse.

              1. No more than any other religion.

                1. No JB, a lot more than any other religion. If you honestly think that every religion is like Mormonism, then you don’t know much or really anything about religions. I don’t say that as a partisan of one religion over another. I say that as fact. I don’t know what else to tell you.

                  It is statements like that that give Atheists such a bad name and why it is so hard to take them seriously. How can you take someone seriously who doesn’t understand the thing they most claim to reject?

                  1. I’ve studied every major religion and have read the Bibble cover to cover multiple times King James and Parallel versions and also have read the Koran and other major religous texts including gnostic texts. I have also studied philosophy and ethics including natural law and so called evolutionary ethics. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I didn’t say that it was exactly the same as other religions. Just no more delusional as you are implying that it is.

                    1. I was raised Christian, attended church (albeit not regularly) into my 20’s. I was not a full fledged atheist until I studied the Bible and other religous texts. You do love to make your assumptions though.

                    2. I was not a full fledged atheist until I studied the Bible and other religous texts.

                      If someone comes to the Bible as an adult, and can make it through, say, Judges, without becoming a full-fledged atheist…I dunno. They’re different than me.

                    3. Exactly

                    4. You do have to admit there are religions that at least have a philosophical backing and others that are no more than feel good (or feel bad) platitudes strung together.

                    5. I think the moral fables can be instructive and that taking them literally misses their whole point. There is certainly some historical value and some wisdom in many of the text. Believing the metaphysical aspects or becoming dogmatic or using the text to gain power or justify behavior is where it all breaks down. I can learn from the story of chicken little or the boy who cried wolf without believing it actually happened.

              2. Have you ever watched that?

                Yes, I have.

                I must say, I’ve always liked the Book of Mormon reboot by Jack Kirby better.

              3. Mormons are seriously fucked up

                meh. All the mormons i knew (~4-5 big families) were the most well-adjusted and successful and happy people within 100 miles. the main complaints were =

                – the girls didn’t put out in high school
                – the boys didn’t put out in high school
                – you couldn’t keep any of them straight because there were an average of 9 kids per family and they all looked very midwestern-plain-jane normal good-looking. (sort of like the girl above) One family had red hair, which helped, but the other 30 kids were constantly getting confused for one another.

                there were probably complaints about the parents from other parents, but i never paid attention to any. one thing they didn’t do (which other parents did) was blame other people’s kids when their kids got into trouble.

                e.g. – mormon friend #4 was often dragged out to keg parties to be the default designated driver. he would be out till 3am dropping everyone off at home. some other drunk kid would sideswipe his car. Designated Driver kid would get in trouble, but parents would never rat out the person who did it to their parents. stuff like that.

                They were in general much more congenial and non-judgemental than any of the orthodox jewish families, or 1 or 2 strict ‘other’-religion families who tended to hover around their kids and police their thoughts/behaviors.

                anyway, i don’t want to generalize, but my experience w/ mormons was that they chill, good people.

                1. Except for the suicide bombers and witch burners.

                  1. I don’t know any suicide bombers and witch burners.

                    1. That’s probably good.

              4. Indeed, Scientology looks like it copied a lot from Mormonism. But also from H.P. Lovecraft.

      3. She made news headlines for months. Nowadays, we would call that white privilege.

    2. I’ve seen the pearl clutching before. So far, no war, just pearl clutching and noise. I don’t know how long that trend will continue and I’m not going to place any bets.

      1. It will get worse under Hillary. Not only does she have a history of targeting violence and sex in media, but the focus on race is going to shift more heavily towards gender to defend her and criticize her opponents.

    3. Fuck Elizabeth Smart.

      She went through something so horrible that I can’t even comprehend it, but any sympathy I had for her is now gone.

      She could have been a great victim’s advocate, or even faded quietly into private life out of the spotlight. Instead, she chose to be a puppet for the porn=rape crowd.

  64. The Poison Garden

    A brief video about a garden in England which contains only poisonous plants.

  65. Armless man is an excellent archer

    Matt Stutzman was born without arms. But that hasn’t stopped him from becoming one of the world’s best archers. In fact, he competes professionally for the U.S. Paralympic Archery Team and even set the Guinness World Record for longest accurate shot in archery. In Stutzman’s words, “no matter what the challenge is, you can overcome it.”

  66. I am making $89/hour working from home. I never thought that it was legitimate but my best friend is earning $10 thousand a month by working online, that was really surprising for me, she recommended me to try it. just try it out on the following website.

    ??? http://www.NetNote70.com

  67. NPR is shutting down all comments on their website.

    Their progressive identity commenters must be beside themselves.

    Their commenters are so vicious.

    Progressives tend to be like that.

    I know we sometimes cause problems for Reason, but for a general appeal website, as commenters go, we totally rule in the dancehall.


    1. I love The Atlantic, where it appears that you can comment on pretty much everything, except anything written by that racist pussy bitch Ta-Nehisi Coates.

      1. Disappointing. I was hoping for something like The Feces Floats.

      2. I wear with pride the fact that he banned/got me banned from the Atlantic for fucking with him and some other of his followers for their racist bullshit.

        They responded at first by successive posts of 3 degrees of separation only to be upstaged by another post calling for 4 degrees, then 7 degrees of separation.

        All the while I was needling them about segregation and how their ancestors fought against it for generations while this generation seeks to undo their work.

        It was a fun night.

    2. When I watch political shows and they’re about to do a segment, and show the people who will be commenting, I try to guess which are the progs just by seeing who has the nastiest looks on their faces. I nailed it today with this rottweilian looking wench on the fox Sunday show who talked about trump’s tax returns when the topic was the Clinton foundation

  68. This story’s been up all this time, & none of us thought to ask, “Yeah, but are they clean hands?”

    1. D’oh! It works only w the headline before the jump.

  69. What the hell, Reuters

    Targeted ads are getting a little uncool

    1. The nose knows.

      1. That was before the internet. People resorted to arts+crafts-porn out of boredom back in Ye Olden Times.

        I’m just saying, I don’t recall ever buying any Penis-Themed furniture or accessories in the recent past, so i’m not sure why the DoubleClick.com or whomever does the data-mining thinks I’m the right customer for Laura-Ashley Meets Tom’s-of-Finland

  70. OT: Alright, which one of you hacked the Wikipedia homepage?

    Did you know…

    … that Edwin Stevens, reporting from his missionary position in Qing-era China, felt that recent erections indicated apprehension, and penetration was difficult?

  71. Trump this. Trump that.


    Throw Hillary on her sorry, treasonous ass.

    1. My respect for Mama Abedin would go up if that “Innovation” poster behind her is one from Despair, Inc.

  72. It’s been many years since I’ve regularly gone to LRC, but I don’t remember this level of lunacy being normal in the long long ago. Am I misremembering?

    1. “Is your kid simulating contact with demons from other dimensions?”

      Man, on top of everything else I have to worry about.

      1. I spent a good part of my middle school years trying to do that. You mean to tell me now that its possible? Damn.

    2. That is so fucking awesome.

    3. the director of research at CERN, physicist Sergio Bertolucci, has publicly admitted in the past that the Large Hadron Collider could potentially open up a “door” to “an extra dimension”.

      I confess – i lack a STEM degree, so all this technical-science-talk is a bit over my head.

      1. The Large Hardon Collider opens many doors.

      2. They made a movie about it.

        In layman’s terms, giant bugs and tentacle creatures from the other dimension travel through the door and make things unpleasant for us humans.

    4. Nope. That wasn’t the norm. It saddens me to see LRC turn into WND.

  73. Meeeeeeeow!

    She’s a chronically rattled and rattling soul, the American goalkeeper. Let’s face it: For every shiny marketing moment and big victory she’s been a part of, she’s given the U.S. a nasty unwanted drama. The victories usually smoothed over her behavior. Not this time. This time she went pure loser and lout.

    After giving up the winning penalty kick to Sweden, Solo called her opponents “a bunch of cowards” for their conservative game plan. Now, who is the real coward here? Solo gave up three regulation goals in the past two games, between a draw with Colombia and this loss. She tried to ice Lisa Dahlkvist on the final kick by changing her gloves, and then couldn’t lay a hand on the ball. And she couldn’t take responsibility for any of it; she could only lash out.

    “What she did was an act of panic,” Sweden’s goalie Hedvig Lindahl said later, giving a little of it back to Solo

    What’s that, Hope? Do you need somebody to administer the Heimlich Maneuver?

    1. I bet Vince McMahon could make a killer heel out of her.

  74. Assuage your collective white guilt? We got an app for that:

    “Site allows white people to offer ‘reparations’ directly to people of color”
    “One Louisiana native just wanted some books. A mother from Oklahoma simply wanted some help to buy a new laptop battery.
    So they, along with dozens of other people of color, took to a new website to ask for help from those who have discriminated against them for decades: white people. Simultaneously, white people came to the site, called Reparations, to offer what they could and to start to answer the question: What can I do to help fix racial injustice?”

    Nothing says racial equality like a new battery!

    1. I could use some new shoes. Can I go to this site and get a free pair based on the beating I took from a bunch of blacks in East ny in the 80s?

    2. I refuse to believe that this is real.

      1. I just put in a request for a NSA, no reciprocation expected, blowjob.

        Will keep you informed.

        1. Cool, thanks.

        2. Hey, you only get half!

            1. Just one ball, obviously.

    3. I believe in a free-market approach to Reparations.

    4. Since the site specifically says that it is not for reparations from slavery but for reparations for injustices that happened yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

      I would like to ask for reparations for college admissions based on race and not on merit and for government set asides for minority owned businesses. Nothing special, just the usual and most obvious examples of systematic racism.

      They would be cool with that, no ?

  75. Nother link. This dude’s book does indeed sound fascinating. But holy shit, well-meaning liberalass do-gooder fucks love to use him to show how much they care about the stupid rednecks they hate.

    By the way, has anybody here read his book?

    1. Oddly enough, my mom is about halfway through it right now. I read a passage she showed me. He comes off as perceptive and a decent storyteller.

      1. I only read about 2 pages (or so – it was on a Kindle) though.

    2. Just an excerpt in a magazine. Heard an interview with him on NPR where he tried to explain Trump voters. I didn’t get the impression the educated cannibal’s upbringing was as insular or exotic as coastal elitist fags like to think. Middletown is on I-75 between Cincinnati and Dayton. It’s not some WVA holler that gets 2 hours of direct sunlight and is a 2 hour drive from the nearest Walmart only if the “straightest” road hasn’t slumped.
      His grandparents emigrated from the ole’ Kentucky homeplace and Vance is young enough that it was served by satellite TV and decent roads by the time he ever visited the kinfolk

      I’m not going to knock a book I haven’t read but having known, worked and socialized with people from (or still in) humble and/or disadvantaged roots all my fucking life I’m not sure what this book has to offer. Hell, I’ve even known at least one *“white trash” memoirist, well before she published her memoir.

      I will say this JD Vance guy totally lost me when he told Terry Gross he was excited to be voting for…Evan McMullin for president.

      (*Honest to God, I think I might have been acquainted with more than one celebrated “white trash” memoirist but I don’t exactly keep up with the genre or everyone I’ve ever known for that matter)

  76. Taibbi admits the obvious.

    There’s a huge difference between advocacy journalism and electoral advocacy. Not just occasionally but all the time now, private news organizations are doing the work that political parties used to have to pay for in the form of ads.

    Looking at you, Krugabe.

    And this-

    Trump really sent this problem into overdrive. He is considered so dangerous that many journalists are beginning to be concerned that admitting the truth of negative reports of any kind about the Democrats might make them complicit in the election of the American Hitler.

    Not a bad piece. Maybe it will pop a bubble here and there. Spoiler Alert: FOX SUX.

    1. “There’s a huge difference between advocacy journalism and electoral advocacy. Not just occasionally but all the time now, private news organizations are doing the work that political parties used to have to pay for in the form of ads.”

      There was a short-lived article in the e-version of the Chron earlier this week, claiming that a Clinton speech regarding Egypt ‘was a major turning point, establishing her foreign affairs cred’.
      Nope. The article established the Chron as an arm of the Clinton campaign.

    2. When journalists start acting like politicians, we pretty much always end up botching things even more politically and crippling our businesses to boot.

      “Tell me about it!”

      – Sabrina Rubin Erdely

    3. Of course, it was always a lie that any media were ever “unbiased”. In a way we’re returning to the old days of nakedly biased media. All that’s left is for them to stop pretending otherwise.

    4. He managed to turn an opening thesis about how fucked up the “Mainstream Media” has gotten… into an extended bitch about “Fox” that could have been written in 1998

      1. A Journalism degree is by definition a Liberal Arts degree.

        All of their mandatory classes are from the Liberal Arts Colleges ( with exceptions) and the electives offered are mostly Easy As from the more liberal sides of Universities.

        Compared to StEM or Business Degrees which require more non liberal classes to get a sheepskin it’s really no mystery why Journo Majors trend liberal in their indoctrination.

        1. So you read Spinoza in your free time, then?

    5. Good article overall

      I take issue with this:

      But young audiences in particular tend to be incredibly turned off by the media-as-cheerleaders model of reporting.

      They just get news from “non-partisan in name only” sources like Jon Stewart. Or get it on the web where confirmation bias is easy.

      1. Yeah, I don’t see any indication that Milennials have a problem with partisan media practices. In fact, the reliance on hugbox sources seems to be something that’s openly celebrated.

  77. HELLO. Are you people paying attention?!

    “REVEALED: Huma Abedin was working as ASSISTANT EDITOR at her mother’s radical Muslim journal when it blamed America for 9/11 terror attacks”

    Is this not like, I don’t know, important?

    1. Eh.

      Our parents forced us to all sorts of stupid shit when we were younger.

      1. “Honey, don’t forget to take out the trash and finish that manifesto against the infidels.”

    2. You mean like Pat Robertson blamed the liberals, you right-wing hack?


    3. Honestly? I don’t know. If it was important, why has no one mentioned it over the years?

    4. WEINER: “Now *I’ll* be the one who’s embarrassed about being married to *her*, heh heh.”

      HUMA: “Don’t bet on it, weirdo.”

    5. Roger Stone and Andrew McCarthy are on board. What more do you need?

    6. If the son of an adulterous, child-mutilating, Nazi-sympathizing drug smuggler can be elected President, then the daughter of a terrorist editor can be a Presidential aide.

      1. Hey! I’ll have you know Martin van Buren’s father Mr. van Buren was a very nice man! Those child mutilating allegations are almost totally without merit!

    7. Show me a “non-radical” muslim organization in the US

      People routinely refer to CAIR as “extremist”

      If there were anything there, i’d expect ample links to things they published and long quotes demonstrating their “extremism”.

      Instead you just get statements where words are cherry picked suggesting that US ME policy was bringing chickens home to roost. You could probably find similar arguments made in editorials in every major newspaper in the last 40 years.

      I think there are plenty of real-serious-problems with Hillary and co. such that making up new, ‘guilt by association’-ones is generally un-necessary


        /takes puck and leaves.


      2. “If there were anything there, i’d expect ample links to things they published and long quotes demonstrating their “extremism”.

        And just who would you expect to be bringing attention to to this ? The MSM who has clearly jumped the shark in their support for a Presidential candidate ?

        Yeah, I can just see the NYTs doing an expose on Humma and her family’s connection to the Muslim Brotherhood and her connection to Hillary Clitdon.

        Huma’s words about her first meeting of Hillary.

        ” I Thought, ‘Oh My God, She’s So Beautiful'”


        1. Be as outraged as you want. You still haven’t pointed to any evidence.

    8. Come on Rufus. It is not like reason has ever gone ape shit over a candidate’s connection to a bunch of old newsletters or anything. This is just old news. You can’t expect reason to care about a campaign having ties to offensive and radical newsletters that were published years ago. What kind of a rag do you think reason is?

      1. ties to offensive and radical newsletters

        that’s the thing tho =

        where are the cited examples in this report? they just describe them. If they were so inflammatory, then link me to them and let them speak for themselves.

        As the above Taibbi piece pointed out – everyone in the media is engage in full-blast partisan retardery (including Taibbi and RS, fwiw); Hillary’s neck-deep in so much foul shit already, i think trying to make a story out of “Huma’s mom” is – even if she *is* actually an america-bashing moozie – sort of besides the point and still only guilt-by-association .

        whereas, something like this is incredible to me that no one has bothered to follow up on

        by all accounts i’ve read, Sid B.’s possession of that material is de facto criminal. yet the FBI never so much mentioned it in the complex process of pretending to investigate Hillary. why the press let this die, i don’t know.

        1. Sid B should have gone to prison. It is just unbelievable. And the media doesn’t care. Part of it is partisanship and part of it is the fact that journalists are really stupid and don’t fully appreciate how big of a deal that actually is.

        2. Yes Gilmore you do know.

          I’ve read too many of your posts to think that you are too stupid to know why SB”s emails to Hillary aren’t on the front page of the NY Times.

          1. I never said the NYT would be the onee xpected to follow up. There are other people who actually do reporting, you know. The WSJ are the ones who finally made the admin eat crow over the “Ransom” b.s. And it was The Observer who originally provided that angle to other media. Unlike other stories, it wasn’t a case of ‘assuming evidence’ existed which needed to be discovered = the evidence is already there, and all that needed to happen was someone to get Blumenthal to testify about ‘wtf’ that was about.

            its not a story which has been ‘downplayed’ by the MSM. it hasn’t been progressed at all by anyone. Maybe there was something but i never saw it.

  78. I’d guess the Reason editors spent all day in church but what is Sullum’s excuse?

  79. What have you mammals been going on about?

      1. I’m told lizard tastes like chicken

        1. You must marinate it in buttermilk first though.

  80. This is the most hysterical thing I have read all week

    : “If you’re a working journalist and you believe that Donald J. Trump is a demagogue playing to the nation’s worst racist and nationalistic tendencies, that he cozies up to anti-American dictators and that he would be dangerous with control of the United States nuclear codes, how the heck are you supposed to cover him?


    The NYT just can’t handle the thought of an American president who “cozies up to anti-American dictators”. Words fucking fail.

    1. I just had a funny thought: What would they be writing if Trump had been the Democrat nominee? And I could easily see him having been that.

    2. That links is to the Post not the Times, but yes, the outrage about Trump’s alleged ties to Putin are remarkably tone deaf. This is the party that, led by Michael Moore, went apeshit over Bush’s alleged ties to the Saudis.

      Now they’re backing someone who took millions of dollars from them! Additionally Clinton crony John Podesta has ties to the same pro-Putin lobbying group Trump’s guy did work for. It’s remarkable how incestuous these political insiders are.

      1. But the quote is from the NYT media editor.

        1. Ah, my mistake. In any case there rhetoric about Bush, McCain and Romney was only marginally less extreme so I can’t imagine why anyone would take their word for it.

          1. They are breaking out the “Trump gave me cancer” routine this weekend. No kidding. It is just laughable at this point. I don’t take it as a sign of strength.

      2. That links is to the Post not the Times

        You type well for someone who is functionally illiterate.

        1. OOOh !!111!

          Cat fight !

          Way to liven up a slow Sunday evening.

    3. Also, isn’t it kind of a contradiction to say he’s nationalistic and Anti-American?

      1. Not at all. Haven’t you heard of an American anti American nationalist?

  81. Massive typhoon. Looks like I’m staying home.

    1. Isn’t it fascinating how “typhoon” could be derived equally from Greek Typhon or Chinese tai fung? Like how Aztlan seems to have gotten its name w/o European influence.

      1. No Robert it isn’t, really.

    2. If Mothra and Godzilla get into it, make sure to post some pictures before your building gets stepped on.

  82. I just flipped through this mostly dead thread that I had commented on on Saturday and came across this Hazel Meade comment


    That is dumbest thing I have ever read on here not written by Tony, Shreek or Joe from Lowell. She really has lost her fucking mind.

    1. And it was followed by a Hihn post.

      He and the Wart both lament that Reason was once a hotbed of Libertarian intellectualism and how much they detest the current populace.

      Perhaps they should make a recording ?


  83. Trump Expresses Interest in ‘Humane’ Solutions For Illegals

    In a Saturday meeting with his newly announced Hispanic advisory council, Donald Trump suggested he is interested in figuring out a “humane and efficient” manner to deal with immigrants in the country illegally, according to three sources. Trump, however, stressed that any new announcements will still be in line with the border security-focused approach…

    “He said people who are here is the toughest part of the immigration debate, that it must be something that respects border security but deals with this in a humane and efficient manner,” said Jacob Monty, a Houston-based immigration lawyer who sat in Trump Tower with other Latino supporters and Trump.


    In a statement, Steven Cheung with the Trump campaign dismissed the BuzzFeed News account of the meeting as “clickbait journalism” and disputed attendees’ claim that he opened the door to legalization behind closed doors.

    But privately the campaign worried that “legalization,” much like “amnesty,” has become a derogatory word and said it doesn’t accurately represent Trump’s position. It stressed that Trump has always called for a humane approach, but Trump’s use of the word “humane” has previously been in the context of deporting immigrants, not soliciting ways for them to stay in the country.

    1. Oh my God. He is going to gas them isn’t he? “Humane” is just a dog whistle for gassing them, the Nazi racist bastard.

      1. Yeah but you gotta admit, the phrasing practically screams the question ‘You know who else had humane and efficient solutions for a problematic population?’

        Which is ironically the opposite of what BuzzFeed is alleging he’s considering, not that I really believe he’d flip on amnesty.

        1. The phrasing is funny as hell. It sounds like they are talking about stray dogs or an over population of deer or something.

  84. http://www.people.com/article/…..dal-on-him

    Typical white woman blaming the black man for her mistakes.

  85. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/w…..ls-8674714

    Jesus these people are evil.

    1. But don’t worry, John: only a minority of Muslim immigrants support them! Well, we’re pretty sure! At least, not many have admitted it, anyway….

      1. They probably deserved it. Word on the street is that they had an actual cartoon of Muhammad in the building. Can you even imagine? People engaging in blasphemy. It’s hate speech and its against free speech.

        1. I’m noticing some right-wing mutterings about how Hillary (and Huma, of course) will try to institute blasphemy laws….

  86. Watching the closing ceremonies in Rio.

    I think we can all agree that it was an unqualified success.

    1. Oooh Kay….
      I thought Bolt’s sideways smile as he flat out ran the other guys was wonderful; it ain’t bragging when you back it up.
      Much as Phelps is a twit, the guy seems to get through the water.
      And, uh, other than that, uh, did someone win ‘synchronized checkers’?

      1. Phelps is OK. Are you thinking of Lochte?

        I was honestly hoping that Rio was so bad that it would be the end of the IOC. Rio and Sochi have been back-to-back disasters, and in hindsight, so was Greece.

        This shit isn’t worth it anymore, and it hasn’t been for a long time.

        1. “This shit isn’t worth it anymore, and it hasn’t been for a long time.”
          Agreed, which is the reason I wondered why you posted that it was “an unqualified success.”
          I thought is was “qualified” to the extent that it ought to be taken out behind the barn and stabbed with a pitchfork with the two qualifications above (and my wife’s inclusion of Ms Biles; I’ll go for that).

          1. The “unqualified success” thing was pure sarcasm. Everything about this Olympics was a shit show.

            The closing ceremonies are now featuring the mayor of Rio and the president of the IOC, as if either did a god damn thing. Oh, and flanked by signing school children. It really has a North Korean vibe to it.

            1. “The “unqualified success” thing was pure sarcasm.”

      1. The IOC is worse than the UN.

        1. Tough call. TOUGH call. REALLY TOUGH call.
          Well, the UN often…
          REALLY REALLY TOUGH call…

            1. So there IS no call; the UN = IOC.
              I am not surprised, no more than was surprised at the scandal whereby the IOC poobahs enriched them selves by selling favors, much a that hag Clinton has done.

  87. So now we need KMW to give us a grade on the weekend “commenter-run-thread” experiment.
    Katherine, please, your comments.

    1. I think every day should conclude with an official open thread….

      Hey Sevo, when C. Anacreon gets back from vacation, we’re going to try to set up another meetup. This one would be after work some evening. That way Suell is more likely to make it.

  88. $89 an hour! Seriously I don’t know why more people haven’t tried this, I work two shifts, 2 hours in the day and 2 in the evening?And i get surly a chek of $1260??0 whats awesome is Im working from home so I get more time with my kids.
    Here is what i did

    ===============>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.factoryofincome.com

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