Europe's Proto-Trumpism, Venezuela's Useful Idiots, and Kmele Foster's L.P. Ambivalence

The Fifth Column discusses whataboutism, third-party challenges, J.K. Rowling's defense of Trump's free speech, and more

Here is what the kids are saying about The Fifth Column, the newish podcast of "Analysis, Commentary, Sedition" featuring Kmele Foster, Michael C. Moynihan and myself:

Want to listen to intelligent dialogue about politics with a refreshing libertarian slant? This is the podcast to listen to. There is more intelligence to Mike Moynihan, Kmele Foster and Matt Welch [than] there is in a stadium full of journalists. I especially enjoy Kmele who does an excellent job of grounding the group, but each one brings a wealth of knowledge on current political topics. It's funny and sharp witted.

***

This is the rare podcast, nowadays, wherein the hosts actually know how to have a lively discussion. Kmele, Matt and Michael are equal parts hilarious and insightful. I can't recommend this podcast highly enough.

***

Every episode makes me a more informed and competent citizen.

***

Great discussions on politics and culture. Insights I haven't heard discussed anywhere else and even educational (I didn't pay attention to Bernie before this election and know how wrong he was on the VA for example – thanks Matt!). I particularly like the dumb stories of the week (complaints about the way imaginary black space people are portrayed in the movies)….Keep it coming boys!!

Whaddya waiting for? Head over to the podcast website for info on how to subscribe; you can also listen using iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. The latest episode dropped this morning. You can listen to that right here:

Among the topics mentioned:

* Jesse Walker's forthcoming magazine piece on Donald Trump rallies.

* The wild and woolly goings on with the Libertarian Party presidential race, and why Kmele is allergic to it.

* Welfare state anti-immigration nationalists in Europe.

* J.K. Rowling's allegedly surprising defense of Trump's right to express bigotry.

* The enduring popularity of whataboutism.

* Venezuela's many useful idiots in the West.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'm not participating if I can't see what ties you're wearing.

[Demoted Comment (Slammer)]

It's a podcast, dude. You can imagine they're wearing whatever you like.

[Hamster of Doom]

Can. And do.

[Hugh Akston]

Hamster imagines Matt wearing a bright green tie, Kmele wearing a deep red or tasteful blue tie, and Moynihan wearing no tie because he's a nonconformist and also he's unemployed.

It goes without saying of course that that's all they're wearing.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

What, no LvMI ties?:

http://store.mises.org/LvMI-Lo.....P2611.aspx

[Hugh Akston]

Don't be a nerd.

[commodious spittoon]

Not the bow tie?!

Turn in your L-card.

[commodious spittoon]

It's nothing but ties in your imagination, isn't it.

[Winston]

Venezuela's many useful idiots in the West.

Including Glenn Greenwald, Justin Raimondo and the guy who runs the Ron Paul Institute...

[Citizen X]

And your mom.

[Winston]

Fuck off slaver.

[Citizen X]

This doesn't make sense, in context or out of it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Winston]

What kind of libertarian deflects when I attack Chavista apologists on a post attacking them?

[Citizen X]

Your mom.

[Winston]

Also love the whataboutism.

[Citizen X]

Whatabout your mom?

[Florida Hipster]

You went back for seconds. Love it.

[Crusty Juggler]

Just like he does with your mom. Isn't that ironic?

[Citizen X]

Don'cha think?

[Florida Hipster]

A little too ironic, yes I really do think.

[Citizen X]

It's like... Winston's mom.

[Zeb]

My thoughts and prayers are with you and Winston's mom.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

I see that we have a new MILF, after Epi's unfortunate demise. Wilson's mom, meet the crew.

[SugarFree]

Winston has no mother. He's a yolk some dog shit out in an alley.

[Notorious UGCC]

"The wild and woolly goings on with the Libertarian Party presidential race, and why Kmele is allergic to it."

Oh, I get it, it's "woolly" because black people's hair is curly. You racists sicken me.

[Zeb]

At least they didn't say "nappy headed".

[Chipper Morning Wood]

I would make a Woolly Bugger joke, but no one would get it.

[Libertarian]

In a just world, Kmele would have his own TV show.

[__Warren__]

But would it star a white man?

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

He has one but it stars a white woman.

Nobody watches it.

Because it's on FBN.

And because Kennedy.

[__Warren__]

Let me interrupt you for a sec...

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Let me interrupt you for a secn entire hour...

[Crusty Juggler]

In a just world, Kmele would have his own TV show.

It would be like The Wire. A legendary program that no one would watch because it starred a black person, and then eventually guilty white people in their late 20s and 30s would hear good things about it on the internet, watch it, and sing its praises until the end of their days.

And then Kmele would become the next James Bond.

[Zeb]

There were black people in The Wire?

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

On HBO. I'm enjoying the podcast largely because it often turns into Keepin' It Kmele! but without being restrained by cable TV norms.

[Irish is a Millennial, Poll Me]

Why don't we all just marry Kmele already? Jeez, this is like (Sam and Diane + Ross and Rachel) x infinity and I think H&R commenters should just consummate this relationship with Kmele already before the viewers get bored

[Crusty Juggler]

this is like (Sam and Diane + Ross and Rachel) x infinity

The only way that comment could be any gayer is if it was starring in a Mission Impossible movie.

[Irish is a Millennial, Poll Me]

There's nothing gay about Cheers

[Zeb]

Except for that one episode where Norm learns that gay dudes are just like everyone else and could be anywhere. And then they kiss him.

[LynchPin1477]

New hobby - 'shipping Kmele with the ladies of Reason.

Or the commenters. We're libertarians, after all.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Don't ship me, bro.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

True story: I had the chance to chat with Kmele last year, but I was too nervous and shy. He was wearing, like, a soccer jersey and chilling with a beer. How is a boy supposed to approach that??

[Hyperion]

Whoa, I visited that site and... the style... it looks like a commie site to me. All it needs is a Hope and Change like Che image and a giant red star on the page.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

It's about time you announced this. I'm already 3/4 done with the podcast which is excellent, as usual.

[Crusty Juggler]

Paul has the oddest humble brags...

[Citizen X]

He's sooo good at listening to things, Crusty. Didn't you know?

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Like Winston's mom?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I don't know what you guys are going on about, but whatever it is, I want in on it.

[Citizen X]

"It" is Winston's mom.

[RBS]

I'm sure Winston's mom won't mind.

[AlmightyJB]

I'd ask her but her mouth is full at the moment.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

There's at least two more holes for the taking.

[Renegade Jew]

Not any more, no.

[Loki]

There's at least two more holes for the taking.

Comments like this are why I hang around here instead of doing my job.

[Winston]

Maduro has stated that the opposition controlled parliament is "irrelevant" and may soon "disappear". Sounds like he aiming for an autocoup.

[Citizen X]

Your mom is "irrelevant" and may soon "disappear".

[Winston]

How are things in Caracas?

[Citizen X]

You should ask your mom when you get home tonight. I heard she's been flying down there to rent herself out as toilet paper.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Jesus, you are brutal, dude. Carry on.

[Hugh Akston]

Beautiful

[Crusty Juggler]

Unlike Winston's mom.

[Renegade Jew]

She has her own special beauty. Which is why she had a special son.

[Restoras]

Know who else...

[Citizen X]

Winston's mom. I mentioned this.

[Citizen X]

Kmele Foster's L.P. Ambivalence would be a pretty good name for a band.

[Hugh Akston]

Kmele Foster's Ambivalence LP would be a pretty good name for an album.

[sarcasmic]

Maduro should change his name to Mierda.

[Winston]

If Gary Johnson wants a former Republican Governor and failed Senate candidate from Massachusetts then why not go the distance and get Mitt Romney? Hell is he wants the LP to go Republican Lite then why not a Romney-Ryan ticket? The Dems accused Romney of wanting to bring back slavery and Ryan of shoving grandma off a cliff which practically makes both libertarians.

[Citizen X]

Your mom wants to "get" Mitt Romney, if you know what i mean.

[mashed potatoes]

I was thinking about this. The only real establishment #stop trump crowd is now looking for 3rd party candidate as well. Obviously, the LP doesn't want one to enter from the right. Do you think they just floated a northeast governor type as a running mate in order to tempt the establish right and keep a republican third party out until june when it becomes to late. then just nominate whoever? too clever?

[Eternal Blue Sky]

This podcast is terrible. I can't hear a word of it without speakers. Clearly this site needs to be more accessible to the speaker-free. 1.5/10, would not listen to again.

[Winston]

And Reason favorite Oliver Stone is also a big Chavista. What sort of issues can a libertarian-Chavista alliance make?

[Irish is a Millennial, Poll Me]

Oh my God, will you stop it?

[Citizen X]

That's exactly what i said to his mom last night.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Much like her son, she will never stop.

[Winston]

New Ghostbusters trailer! Do you love it or are you a misogynist bro?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMfUjDnpfRY

[Citizen X]

Your mom is a misogynist, bro.

[Winston]

Is your Mom Melissa McCarthy? I knew it!

[Citizen X]

Damn, that comeback could use some work!

[Winston]

So says the Maduro fan...

[Citizen X]

Got it, mocking Whineston = loving Chavismo. That's quite a logical stretch, if the word "logical" applies at all.

[Winston]

Mocking me for attacking Maduro is very libertarian:

http://reason.com/blog/2016/05.....nt_6131677

[Citizen X]

Dawg, that's not why i'm mocking you.

[Winston]

Engaging in ad hominem attacks is not logical. If someone else had made that exact same post you wouldn't have mocked the poster.

[Citizen X]

"Someone else" probably wouldn't have a history of obnoxious whinging all over this site.

Engaging in ad hominem attacks is not logical.

Sure it is, if your only goal in the interaction is to have a little fun.

[Winston]

Sure it is, if your only goal in the interaction is to have a little fun.

Why are you trying to prove Pyscho Mike Hihn is right?

[Chipper Morning Wood]

.....aaaaand, I am out of popcorn

[LynchPin1477]

There is more intelligence to Mike Moynihan, Kmele Foster and Matt Welch [than] there is in a stadium full of journalists

And 99% of that is thanks to Kmele 😉

[Irish is a Millennial, Poll Me]

Who is more creeped out by the lust Reason commenters have for them - Naomi Brockwell or Kmele Foster?

[Florida Hipster]

I would do sex to both of them.

[LynchPin1477]

Hey, I like them both for their intellects.

[Loki]

Niether: "The Libertarian Chick" aka Kristin Tate.

Or at least she would be if she could read my mind.

[Crusty Juggler]

You leave Matt alone! Tim Lincecum is going to turn the Angels' season around.

[kbolino]

Shut your whore mouth and leave probable vampire Moynihan alone!

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Too late! I already listened to it last night, SUCKER.

[GILMORE?]

How is it *proto* Trumpism if they're already building walls and blaming each other for their migrant-problems

They're like 2 steps ahead of us in Trumpism. They actually are getting to *policy*, whereas all we get so far is the rhetoric.

[Pan Zagloba]

Yes but most of their *rhetoric* is much less Trumpy. Plus, those guys tend to have Real University Degrees, and have been in Serious Politics all their lives. Also, they tend to speak French, German, Flemish etc, which demonstrates they are Educated Men Persons of the World.

[Irish is a Millennial, Poll Me]

Yeah, the real problem with Trump according to Europeans is that he's so gauche. Sure huge numbers of Europeans essentially support Trump's ideas, but they're really soft-spoken while supporting the exact same policies, so it's classy and okay.

Plus, sometimes they drink nice champagne.

[Hyperion]

This didn't happen in Europe:

Soft spoken and polite Europeans discuss politics

[Renegade Jew]

God, I wish our debates were like that. Hillary with a broken hip. GOLD.

[Loki]

She's lucky he punches like a fag.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

You should listen to the podcast.

It's 'proto-trumpism' because the Europeans don't explicitly support Trump and in fact consider Trump to be everything wrong with Americans. So they European Elite are essentially vocally outwardly Trump (a uniquely American thing) while their own political class acts like Trump.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

"So they European Elite are essentially vocally outwardly Trump"

So The European Elite are essentially outwardly anti-Trump"

This is what happens when you're on the phone while posting.

[Crusty Juggler]

This is what happens when you're on the phone while posting.

These humble-brags...

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

It's not a humble brag. I'm not effective on the phone, either.

[Hyperion]

We're at least a step or two behind Europe. When they've totally disowned socialism, the central state rule of the EU, and totally embraced free market capitalism, we'll be where Venezuela is right now.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

...Isn't that what "proto" means? It's prior to Trumpism.

[Loki]

They're like 2 steps ahead of us in Trumpism.

Yes but they're Europe. They're, like, super enlightened and stuff.

[Matt Welch]

I thought "proto" meant "pre," that's why. Was I wrong to depend on my hunches?

[Hamster of Doom]

Welch. You bad man. I saw that.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

You know, I remember in the olden days of Reason when Moynihan would get some guff around the comments because he was mean to commies.

[Hyperion]

So he would be mean to Bernie now?

[GILMORE?]

Moynihan would get some guff around the comments because he was mean to commies.

I challenge you to find an excerpt from the archives.

*not that i disbelieve you. Just that the archives are impossible to search. it would be amusing to see you succeed.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I too would love to find them, but I'm not gonna because I'm too lazy. I just remember Moynihan was writing articles which tended to spend a lot of time taking the lefties to task and some commenters (mostly gone now) did some eye-rolling WRT Moynihan's 'quaint' hand-wringing over the Red Menace.

What a difference a decade makes.

[Hyperion]

We just need crayon back, hurrrrr durrrrrr dat's punny!

[Winston]

Back then BOOOOOOSH was in power so you would have had quite a few lefties. Now that a Democrat is in power there are a lot more righties around. If Trump gets elected I'm sure Hit and Run will get a lot more leftist posters,

[Citizen X]

Your mom had quite a few lefties.

[Winston]

Your daddy was always very sinister.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Back then BOOOOOOSH was in power so you would have had quite a few lefties. Now that a Democrat is in power there are a lot more righties around. If Trump gets elected I'm sure Hit and Run will get a lot more leftist posters,

And you can be the hero that keeps all those lefties in check. And make some pocket change pimping out your mom to them.

[commodious spittoon]

I listen to a number of libertarian and conservative podcasts, but I feel like I should seek out a decent left-of-center source to get some idea where, culturally and intellectually, the center-left is going. The problem is, I'm just not sure what, intellectually, the left really has to offer. There are narrowly-tailored moderating voices like CH Summers who identifies as a liberal but takes the extremist campus left to task. In fact, many in the anti social justice movement, if they aren't explicitly libertarian, are mushy moderate leftists. Beyond that small world of lefty commentary I just don't know enough about their pantheon. Who's worth reading or listening to?

[AlmightyJB]

You mean like this chick?

[AlmightyJB]

Have you ever read any old school leftest stuff like Amy Goodman or Noam Chompsky?

[GILMORE?]

(complaints about the way imaginary black space people are portrayed in the movies)

Django in Space?

What is that in reference to?

[Loki]

This?

Or maybe this?

[Butts Wagner]

Got to admit that Uncle Ruckus is a pretty funny burn.

[? Aggressor]

First I've heard about it, subscribed!

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