Gun Control

Clinton Uses Ridiculous Number to Blame Sanders' State for Gun Violence in Hers

She says Vermont "has the highest per capita number" of New York crime guns bought in other states.


Reuters video

Yesterday Hillary Clinton went public with her previously private complaint about Vermont's supposedly outsized role in New York gun crimes, which she explicitly linked to the supposedly lax gun control views of her opponent for the Democratic presidential nomination. Here is what Clinton said about Bernie Sanders and the state he represents in the Senate during a panel discussion on gun violence in Port Washington, New York: 

When challenged on his gun stances, he frequently says, "You know, I represent Vermont. It's a small rural state. We have no gun laws." 

Here's what I want you to know: Most of the guns that are used in crimes and violence and killings in New York come from out of state. And the state that has the highest per capita number of those guns that end up committing crimes in New York come from Vermont. 

In 2014, as I noted last week, just 55 crime guns seized in New York were traced to dealers in Vermont, according to data from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. That represented 1.2 percent of the 4,585 gun traces in which the location of the original sale could be identified. Vermont ranked 15th among the states where the crime guns were sold, far behind New York (1,397), Virginia (395), Georgia (386), Pennsylvania (371), and Florida (292). Clinton tries to make Vermont's tiny gun numbers seem bigger by comparing them to the population of that "small rural state," which has about 626,000 residents—97 percent fewer than New York, 92 percent fewer than Virginia, 94 percent fewer than Georgia, 95 percent fewer than Pennsylvania, and 97 percent fewer than Florida.

Clinton is right that 55 divided by 626,000 is bigger than 1,397 divided by 19.7 million, 395 divided by 8.3 million, 386 divided by 10.1 million, 371 divided by 12.8 million, or 292 divided by 19.9 million. But is that comparison meaningful?

Washington Post fact checker Michelle Ye Hee Lee observes that "the number of people in the source state is a problematic denominator, because gun trafficking deals with the behavior of gun dealers and the type and enforcement of state laws." She quotes John Roman, an Urban Institute senior fellow who studies gun control: "It doesn't matter how many people live there. The issue is, how many gun dealers are there that are contributing to violence in New York?" Roman, who has worked with New York officials on gun issues, says, "I literally have never heard of Vermont coming up in this conversation." Lee gives Clinton's claim about Vermont guns "three Pinnochios," a rating category that includes "statements which are technically correct…but are so taken out of context as to be very misleading." 

Clinton's broader point about Sanders is just as bogus as her gun numbers. The Vermont senator brags about his low ratings from the NRA, and his gun control positions are very similar to Clinton's, except that he is more skeptical of holding gun manufacturers and dealers liable for the criminal actions of their customers.

NEXT: School Cop Who Body-Slammed 12-Year-Old Girl into Concrete Fired Over Paperwork

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    1. Well, don’t be a piker. Give us a hint.

      1. You can watch live…..ce-tv.html

      2. Oh, very well.

        We’re going to be teaming up with the folks on Gliese 581 c to enable a wider observational base.

  1. I know I’ve asked this before, but is gun control really a winning strategy? Even with the Dems? There have to be a number of upstate New York Democrat voters who aren’t too thrilled with what Cuomo has been up to in that area.

    1. It helps demoralize the Bernie-babies.

    2. Are those types of Democrats still voting Democrat, or are they voting Trump?

      1. I don’t think it’s fair to condemn all of the Democrat platform because of a single slip up.

        1. Certainly beats a nip slip on the Democrat platform.

          1. As if you’re not morbidly curious what Bernie’s nips look like.

        2. Culturally, though, it seems like the Democrats have left behind the types of rural people who would are pro 2A.

          1. Not just rural types, but the blue collar urban union types.

    3. It seems a lot of issues are Urban v. Rural.

      1. It’s a big messy Venn diagram.

        Hard to be a socialist without collectivism and/or a large population around you. Once you are a socialist and your policies start failing it’s really easy to blame the minority and/or unseen individuals and masses of individualists from parts unknown.

        1. To be a Socialist, Hillary would have to believe something other than “I ought to be elected”.

    4. Outside of the partisan true believers, I really don’t think it is a winner.

      Several people I work with are probably fairly reliable D voters, but are absolutely pissed about their gun control bullshit. Outside of big cities, I don’t think a majority of Democrats favor more strict gun control.

    5. The problem/issue with gun control in NY is that all NY politics are controlled and geared toward downstate residents, basically NYC and its immediate vicinity. That’s where the population is and that’s where the money is.

      No Democrat in a position of significant power cares one bit for anyone that lives north of Westchester and Rockland counties. Kirsten Gillibrand saw the light and flipped hard left on gun control once she was appointed to Hillary’s open seat. Once she was no longer representing hicks in upstate NY it was inconvenient for her to support the 2A – so she turned against it to make herself more acceptable to the voters and money in downstate NY.

      I don’t think most upstate Democrats have caught on – and in any case it doesn’t matter. Cuomo, Schmuck Chumer and C-U-Next-Tuesday Gillibrand don’t need their votes.

  2. Look Sullum, Hillary is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

    Also her jungle camo pantsuit will prevent the vicious VC of Vermont from gunning her down from the treeline.

    1. It’s easy to be the per-capita leader when you have like 600,000 people compared to Virginia (the single biggest source of NY guns according to recent press) with 8,000,000 people.

      1. I rate your statement Pinocchio.

    2. Also her jungle camo pantsuit will prevent the vicious VC of Vermont from gunning her down from the treeline.

      Well, she is a veteran who knows what it means to dodge sniper fire.

  3. OT: Meanwhile, in Scotland, they’ve appointed government officials to watch after *every child.*

    “The surviving extracts appeared to indicate that the minutiae of his family life had been recorded in painstaking detail for almost two years, under a Named Person scheme which has been introduced in his part of the country ahead of its final roll-out across all of Scotland in August. A separate note made by the Named Person charged with keeping an eye on the academic’s two little boys was concerned with nappy rash.”

    “”I felt shocked and vulnerable,” he told Scotland on Sunday. “Then I felt angry and powerless when I saw these notes made of very trivial things and constant surveillance of small things that are part of everyday parenting ? a total lack of respect and confidence in the parents. You have no control over this. I maintain that the hearsay put in there is false.

    “But they won’t let me correct it. I have provided them with independent accounts that show that some of those statements are false, but they refuse to enter them. So the impression is that they are trying to build a case against me.””

    1. He’ll come around, and eventually his eyes will well up with tears of pride when he learns that it was his own children who turned him into the authorities for thought crimes.

      1. “It was my little daughter,” said Parsons with a sort of doleful pride. “She listened at the keyhole. Heard what I was saying, and nipped off to the patrols the very next day. Pretty smart for a nipper of seven, eh? I don’t bear her any grudge for it. In fact I’m proud of her. It shows I brought her up in the right spirit, anyway.

    2. these notes made of very trivial things and constant surveillance of small things that are part of everyday parenting

      Melissa Harris-Perry approves.

      1. MELITHA!!!

        But the no longer workth for her former employer…

    3. Tragic cases like that of 11-week-old Caleb Ness, the Edinburgh baby killed by his father despite the involvement of social work and health staff, have convinced the Scottish Government that action has to be taken.

      Hey, we failed once already, why not fail up even harder?

      1. Sanchez
        4:28 PM on 06/04/2016
        How about we just focus on those ones subject to potential abuse and leave parents like me alone. You know, those parents that would rather die than hurt my child either physically or emotionally? Those parents that live for the wellbeing of their children above all else!

        Hey, Sanchez, they did that already and a little boy died. So what they’ll do instead is rope everyone into a huge scheme wherein everyone is suspect and problematic cases like the Ness family will somehow be… easier to address?

        1. How about we just focus on those ones subject to potential abuse and leave parents like me alone.

          LOL. The naivete is strong in this one.

        2. Shorter Sanchez: “Do it to her!”

    4. Well, that fucks up the running joke about the govt assigning two feds consisting of one man and one woman to every child and charging them with the responsibility of raising, providing, feeding, and caring for the child until they reach adulthood. Scotland actually went and did it.

  4. Gun grabbers have been grasping at straws for ages. People used to blame Virginia’s lax gun laws for crime in DC. When Virginia tightened its gun laws, and crime increased in DC anyway, the gun grabbers triumphantly noted that crime in DC using guns bought in Virginia had gone down.

    1. When your entire argument is bullshit straws are the only other thing you have.

    2. I seem to recall Mencken making fun of this argument, with regard to the Sullivan law.

      1. here it is from 1925


        With what result? With the general result that New York, even more than Chicago, is the heaven of footpads, hijackers, gunmen and all other such armed thugs. Their hands upon their pistols, they know that they are safe. Not one citizen out of a hundred that they tackle is armed — for getting a license to keep a revolver is a difficult business, and carrying one without it is more dangerous than submitting to robbery.

  5. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that the state of origin has no relationship to any useful data. The question should always be, “How many crimes are being committed in the place in question? New York’s crime issues are its own and no one else’s. Period.

    1. For Progressives, and other sociopaths, it’s *always* someone else’s fault.

  6. Maybe Clinton should be asking of audiences in New York, “What the fuck is wrong with you people? Vermont has these incredibly lax gun laws, and they are not running around killing each other. And why would you people vote for a bitch like me who wants to put more New Yorkers lives at risk by further restricting your access to self-defense? I mean, there is more than ample evidence that the laxer the gun laws, the lower the crime rate.”

    1. The people of New York are the idiots who first elected Hillary into political office, so logic and common sense are obviously not their strong suits.

      1. At this point, I don’t blame people for voting this way or that. The whole edifice is completely fucking broken. It’s a one-party state and we’re just living in it.

        Oh, and what idiot believes that Hilary gives a flying fuck about crime anyway? If they did, they would do something constructive like, oh I dunno, stop the drug war.

  7. “those guns that end up committing crimes”

    literally giving agency to the guns.

    1. It’s really quite telling.

    2. Good one! I’m shamed I didn’t see it.

  8. My proposal: build a wall along the New York-Vermont border and make the Vermontities pay for it. I do not feel safe with those people bringing their violence into my state.

    1. Better yet, Crusty, build a wall around southeast New York…

      1. Yes, we can just tip I-287 on its side.

    2. Better yet, wall off NYC completely. 20′ wall with razor wire at the top. And make sure Shrillary is INSIDE.

  9. She’s cracking, Dude.

    It’s a lot of fun to see her openly complain about Sanders stealing what she is owed. There are a lot of shared assumptions about Clinton that we’re all supposed to be comfortable with, regardless of how bad they sound. Of course Clinton will be the nominee, that’s how it is. Of course she lies and will make a shady deal now and then, we know that already. Let’s move on and embrace the inevitable, please.

    1. Lie back and do your duty to the party.

    2. She’s a leftist (more) Nixon. Paranoid, convinced that anyone who dislikes her is part of a conspiracy, blatantly dishonest. If she wins her enemies list will be getting a visit from the IRS.

      1. If she wins her enemies list will be getting a visit from the IRS.

        If they’re lucky. The one she really doesn’t like will get a Homeland Secrecy SWAT raid.

      1. Just like Obama cheated the system by paying attention to how caucuses work.

  10. Hillary and De-B get Very Awkward

    In one of those clips, Mayor Bill de Blasio rapped and — oh, God, I can’t believe those are words I had to type, what a world….

    …With all of the smooth delivery of a malfunctioning Mr. Softee machine, De Blasio explains to Hillary Clinton — one of those politicians who wants to be president — that he didn’t endorse her because he was “running on C. P. time” — cautious politician time. See, the joke is that “C. P. time” is more commonly used to stand for “colored people time,” and is the sort of thing that if said by a white guy in nearly any other context falls into the category of “racist.”

    So de Blasio went on CNN on Monday night to explain why he didn’t really say a racist thing, and that’s partly because there was a black guy on the stage, too, and he was cool with it.

    Today’s front page…
    SKIT FOR BRAINS: Hil, Blaz blasted for “colored people time” joke

    ? New York Daily News (@NYDailyNews) April 12, 2016

    1. Colored people time? That one is new to me.

      1. me neither, but apparently its a thing

        Colored People’s Time, or CPT, or CP Time (also referred to as Black People Time) is an American expression referring to a stereotype of African Americans as frequently being late. [1][2][3][4].

        In media

        The phrase or initialism has been referenced numerous times in various types of media, including the films Bamboozled, Undercover Brother, Let’s Do It Again, House Party and several television series: The Mindy Project, Prison Break, The Boondocks, The Wire, Weeds, Where My Dogs At?, Reno 911, 30 Rock, Everybody Hates Chris, The PJs, Bridezillas, Mad TV and Cedric the Entertainer Presents, Empire, and reality series The Real Housewives of Atlanta. In the Black Jeopardy sketch aired during the March 29, 2014 episode of Saturday Night Live, host Alex Treblack (Kenan Thompson) says upon the sound of the final bell, “As usual, we started late.”

        I’ve heard “CPT” as a joke for being late, but not “CP time…”

        These guys explain why Obama has failed to pass anything specific to help black Americans because he’s been running on the CPT clock

        And here’s some Apollo Comedy Hour skit making the same point

        1. Decades ago, virtually all of my HS athletics (even competitors) had the inverse notion;

          [sports team] time is 10 min. early!

          Apparently, we were getting an early start on being racist and didn’t know it.

        2. The media list certainly explains why I was unfamiliar with the term.

      2. It’s quite common in the NYC area, actually.

        1. Which is where I live and I have never heard that before. Maybe I have heard “cpt” but never “cp.”

        2. I’ve heard of Island Time but not CP time. I guess it’s similar. I do notice that many persons of color in NYC, along with homeless white people, walk half as slow as everyone else. Nowhere to get to that means anything to them, I guess.

      3. Maybe I’ve been in Virginia too long but I have heard of CP Time…

        1. I always thought it stood for Cotton Picking Time.

    2. Well, in that case, since he wasn’t stereotyping black people as always late, it wasn’t racist.

      Wouldn’t it be nice if people would criticize politicians for the actual horrible policies they promote rather than stupid bullshit like this?

      1. Wouldn’t it be nice if people would criticize politicians for the actual horrible policies they promote rather than stupid bullshit like this?


        the S.O.P. w/ “Policy” on the left is to celebrate them as epic achievements when they’re proposed

        …and then ignore what they actually look like in final form, or where the money actually goes, or whether they ever achieve the goals they claimed they were intended for….

        See = Obamacare (or anything, really), which ran all the headlines of its great successes in 2012 and 2013, and then was scrubbed from human memory as the actual out-of-pocket costs began to rise even faster than they had when we were all getting raped by the evul insurance companies

  11. of those guns that end up committing crimes

    Because guns have volition!!!!

  12. Cripple fight!

  13. If Vermont’s lax laws were such a rich source of guns for criminal activity, there would be far more than 55 guns as quoted. It would rather be the Walmart for NY criminals, which apparently it isn’t.

  14. They claim that this event was open to the public. Of course they didn’t notify the public about it until after it was over. So her “audience” was free from any pesky different viewpoints. Damn shame because I would’ve enjoyed the opportunity to heckle her.

  15. Here’s what I want you to know: Most of the guns that are used in crimes and violence and killings in New York come from out of state. And the state that has the highest per capita number of those guns that end up committing crimes in New York come from Vermont I’m a blithering idiot.


  16. There is also the little fact that Sanders isn’t a VT legislator and has nothing to do with VT gun laws.

    1. But for collectivists, he’s to blame because he’s from Vermont.

  17. Vermont has no gun laws, and has the top per capita gun ownership. Guess where they rank in gun murders?

    1. Look, those guns have a mind of their own. They want to commit crimes, but they only want to do it in New York.

      1. I think we’ve all felt that way.

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  19. When challenged on his gun stances, he frequently says, “You know, I represent Vermont. It’s a small rural state. We have no gun laws.”

    Anybody think if he could write Vermont gun laws, that would stay the same? “I haven’t been able to pass the gun laws I want” isn’t the same as being pro gun rights.

  20. There’s something near 3 gun stores in vermont. You want smugglers to get gums from up there during bankers hours??

  21. Marxists and Islamists who infect our federal government plus the media whores who protect them will gleefully lie, falsify, fabricate, slander, libel, deceive, delude, bribe, and treasonably betray the free citizens of the United States..

    Second Amendment foes lying about gun control – Firearms are our constitutionally mandated safeguard against tyranny by a powerful federal government.

    Only dictators, tyrants, despots, totalitarians, and those who want to control and ultimately to enslave you support gun control.

    No matter what any president, senator, congressman, or hard-left mainstream media whores tell you concerning the statist utopian fantasy of safety and security through further gun control: They are lying. If their lips are moving, they are lying about gun control. These despots truly hate America..

    These tyrants hate freedom, liberty, personal responsibility, and private property. But the reality is that our citizens’ ownership of firearms serves as a concrete deterrent against despotism. They are demanding to hold the absolute power of life and death over you and your family. Ask the six million Jews, and the other five million murdered martyrs who perished in the Nazi death camps, how being disarmed by a powerful tyranny ended any chances of fighting back. Ask the murdered martyrs of the Warsaw Ghetto about gun control.

    American Thinker

    1. Their single agenda is to control you after you are disarmed. When the people who want to control you hold the absolute power of life and death over your family, you have been enslaved. The hard-left Marxist and Islamists who infect our federal government plus the MSM media whores who protect them will gleefully lie, falsify, fabricate, slander, libel, deceive, delude, bribe, and treasonably betray the free citizens of the United States into becoming an unarmed population. Unarmed populations have been treated as slaves and chattel since the dawn of history.

      Will we stand our ground, maintaining our constitutionally guaranteed Second Amendment rights, fighting those who would enslave us?

      American Thinker

  22. Hillary Clinton supports the War on Womyn who Smoke Weed.

  23. Stop allowing the socialists to win an argument by defining terms(i.e. “choice” for abortion, “gay” for homosexual}.

    Gun control means hitting what you aim at! What Evita espouses is gun restrictions, abridgements. We ought call restriction restriction: confiscation should be referred to as confiscation. We cede the argument when we use the progressives’/socialists’ misleading terminology.

  24. Every time I want to hate the Socialist more than all the other candidates Hillary Clinton opens her mouth and reminds me why I hate her most of all.

  25. Hillary Clinton is a lying cunt?
    who knew….

  26. Could Clinton have found a lower crime rate state to ridicule?
    Vermont has no carry permits, in fact, residents can open carry.
    Perhaps that’s way there is such little crime.

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