Death Penalty

Asking Tough Questions About the Death Penalty

Journalists and prisoners stage a First Amendment challenge to state secrecy regarding executions.

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Last week's observance of Veteran's Day brought another opportunity to examine the politics and ramifications of the death penalty, after a new report produced by the Death Penalty Information Center put the number of military veterans on death row at 10% of the entire comdemned prison population.  

Scrutiny of capital punishment is increasingly in the national spotlight and last March, Reason TV profiled the ongoing efforts to demand transparency in government pertaining to executions.  

A portion of the original writeup is below, you can read the full article here:

Americans may shudder at the barbarity depicted in videos showing public executions by the governments of Iran, Saudi Arabia, and China, but the fact remains that alone among all Western countries, the United States is a death penalty country.

Though the death penalty is legal in the majority of American states, only a handful of them actually carry out executions, numbering in the few dozens annually. Part of the reason the American public maintains a steadfast support of its government killing convicted murderers is due to the cloak of secrecy covering executions and that the most common form of execution, lethal injection, is sold to the public as a medical procedure, akin to putting a sick animal to sleep.

But a series of botched executions in 2014 have exposed a problem largely unknown to the American public: The drugs used for lethal injections are experimental, untested, and proving to be ineffective at killing prisoners without excruciating pain.

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  1. One little asked question is whether you want to give the state the legal power to kill people/citizens.

    1. The known error rate is too high. About 4%.

      1. Far higher. Illinois governor converted all death row sentences to life without parole because more prisoners left death row due to their convictions tossed for being framed by prosecutors / police than were executed. Memory says the numbers were 12 and 11, but that’s just memory. No doubt most of the framed prisoners were scumbags of one sort or another, but it also means the real criminals were unknown.

        1. Don’t forget to add the number of people convicted of lesser crimes due to pleas avoiding the death penalty.

        2. Actually, George Ryan converted all the sentences in a desperate bid to get good PR before he left office and suffered the usual fate of IL governors – trial and prison.

    2. To kill people who are not an imminent threat to others.

    3. One little asked question is whether you want to give the state the legal power to kill people/citizens.

      That’s not the question. The state OBVIOUSLY has the legal power to kill people. Otherwise cops would be armed with teddy bears and the military would drop leaflets with love poems and cake out of airplanes.

      The question is, can the state impose a death penalty without ever making a mistake. The other question is should the state kill people when they’re no longer an imminent threat to others.

      1. There is a related question.

        Should we tolerate mistaken killings by the state ever?

        1. Government is just the people we kill together. With the same accuracy and competence as everything else government does!

      2. Obviously the state is empowered to kill. That’s kind of what government is. But I think a separate question is whether the state should be empowered to kill in cold blood someone who poses no immediate threat to anyone.

        1. I see you also ask that question.

      3. If we got rid of “death row”, then we put these criminals in gen. pop. They would be a threat to the rest of the inmate population. Or do they not count?

        I will grant you that there are some real questions regarding error rates. And though I favor the death penalty in general, a temporary moratorium might be a good idea. There are some good ideas out there about forcing prosecutors to open up cases and use new DNA tools, perhaps we could change evidentiary or procedural rules to make it harder to prove the aggravating circumstances which would bring in the death penalty.

        But once a person has committed 1st degree murder (with aggravating circumstances) the govt has just as much right to execute them as to sentence them to life imprison.

    4. This is a common error.

      The state does not pass sentence. The jury does. Twelve people.

      They use the state to carry out the sentence because, in the past, even after jury trials came about, the sentence was often used by the victims or their survivors as a means of vengeance. This was considered cruel.

      Most execution methods are designed to keep people out of it as much as possible..

      But never forget that it is the jury that decides on a sentence of death, not the state.

  2. Suffering used to be part of some death sentences. Drawing and quartering. Done publicly for the entertainment value. The US no longer does public executions.

    1. The US no longer does public executions.

      Another “gift” from the Progressive era.

  3. Tough questions are sinews ripped from the knees of dragons and eaten raw as one plummets to the earth whilst whisking swords across hordes of evil flying scaly things, innocent rainbows, and clouds that never give a fuck. Clouds have never fucking cared about this earth. They swim across lazily in-between the livable and endable… between space and Margaritas. That is a cloud, man.

    Tough questioning as these lines of words pertain to normal fucks imbued with wizard power to kill other humans on the odd weekend in the jails because a stack of attorney organizations butt-fucked a slew of politicians and they all had a pen orgy and made laws that somehow rose above millions of pizza eaters and sports fanatics who don’t give a single fuck about the actual genetics of freedom and the society they shit on every single fucking day as they paste little flags of their favorite place to poop all over the surfaces their booger-flicking fingers contact… well, I do believe I have lost the fucking trail this sentence was headed down. Be this as it may, a bunch of shitty people gave themselves power to kill monsters. Problem is, when you are shitty how can you perfectly determine monsters?

  4. Americans may shudder at the barbarity depicted in videos showing public executions by the governments of Iran…

    How dare you. America isn’t hanging some teens because they’re gay. The world’s remaining super power is only killing its own because it has to do so in order to give victims’ families a false sense of justice, to pretend that the threat of being caught and punished is a deterrent to capital crime and to allow prosecutors to bolster their resumes.

    1. When the guilty perpetrator is speedily executed the victims families are given as much justice as is possible and there is some deterrent to capital crime , far more of both than life imprisonment provides.

  5. OT: France bombing ISIS

    French fighter jets bombed a series of ISIS sites in Raqqa, Syria, on Sunday in what officials described as a major bombardment.

    The targets included a command center, a recruitment center, an ammunition storage base and a training camp for the terror group, said Mickael Soria, press adviser for France’s defense minister.

    1. “The raid … including 10 fighter jets, was launched simultaneously from the United Arab Emirates and Jordan. Twenty bombs were dropped,” the statement said, adding that the mission had taken place this evening.

      10 fighters? But, can’t criticize too much, that’s almost twice the Canada’s contribution, and PM Zoolander has campaigned on pulling the planes out as soon as possible (they are still bombing as of this morning, because between being idiot or liar, looks like he’s going for liar).

      1. I thought the Canadian Air Force closed after 7pm anyway.

        1. 4pm on Fridays.

          Beer ain’t gonna drink itself.

    2. The targets included a command center, a recruitment center, an ammunition storage base and a training camp for the terror group, said Mickael Soria, press adviser for France’s defense minister.

      The existence of those things was already known, but they didn’t get around to bombing them until just now?
      Riiiight.

      1. Command Center = house

        Recruitment center = restaurant

        Ammunition storage base = warehouse

        Training camp = flat space with some tents

  6. Part of the reason the American public maintains a steadfast support of its government killing convicted murderers is due to the cloak of secrecy covering executions and that the most common form of execution, lethal injection, is sold to the public as a medical procedure, akin to putting a sick animal to sleep.

    This is total bullshit. The state started executing the condemned in secrecy by the means of psuedo-humane technology fads at the height of such a public enthusiasm for capital punishment that the citizenry was rejecting the state monopoly on retributive violence and taking matters into their own hands.

    1. Wait, Richard Nixon didn’t invent the death penalty?

      Mind. Blown.

      1. Nixon invented the WoDs. Nobody cared about drugs until Nixon whipped up “hippe hate” and unilaterally made drugs illegal by executive authority.

        1. Actually he had Congressional support. Quite a few Blacks voted for draconian penalties for drugs.

          1. Of course drugs were illegal under penalty of imprisonment at the federal and state level since 1914.

        2. Sir, that is some fine aged sarcasm. Sharp enough to cut people with, and dry enough to drain Pripyet Marshes. If it were cheddar, Sothebys would have auctioned it for thousands of pounds…

          1. It would be sarcasm if it wasn’t absolute bullshit.

        3. “Nixon invented the WoDs. Nobody cared about drugs until Nixon whipped up “hippe hate” and unilaterally made drugs illegal by executive authority.”

          Fuck, nobody even did drugs before Nixon.

  7. I have absolutely no problem taking the life of someone who severely violates the rights of others. Don’t really give a shit how you do it either. Fuck them.

    IF you can be 100% sure you have the right guy.

    1. So you’re in favor of the death penalty for people who commit executions for the State?

      1. No, Hugh. I’m a libertarian, remember? That whole NAP thingy? INITIATION of force…

        Punishing someone who’s initiated force isn’t an initiation of force.

        1. So wait, taking an unarmed person who is locked in a box and straight up murdering them isn’t an initiation of force if you put a badge on and use a different word for it?

          1. No, it absolutely isn’t. Isn’t murder. Isn’t an initiation of force. It’s justice for their immoral action.

            What do you propose we do with those who violate the rights of others, Hugh, let them go?

            The punishment should fit the crime, certainly, but it isn’t a stretch to say that if you murder someone your life is forfeit. Again, as I said in my original post, IF you can be certain you have the right guy, which is the ONLY reason I’m against the death penalty (at least with the current burden of proof that’s required).

            1. So if someone is a rapist, you would sentence them to being raped? Or if they are a child molester you travel back in time and molest them as a child?

              If you’ve already got the perpetrator locked up, why not just keep her there? That way you’re covered whether you’re into deterrence, rehabilitation, public safety, or inflicting righteous vengeance punishment.

              1. So if someone is a rapist, you would sentence them to being raped? Or if they are a child molester you travel back in time and molest them as a child?

                No. A prison term would suffice. But, I will say, a second such offence and I’d have no problem with a death sentence. Provided, you are positive, which you usually can’t be.

                If you’ve already got the perpetrator locked up, why not just keep her there?

                Why would I pay money to keep such a shitbag alive? Anyone who’d commit murder (or rape or robbery a second time, for that matter) I have no pity for. As I said, fuck them. It isn’t difficult to never commit a heinous act even once. Anyone doing it a second time isn’t ever going to be right and will go on violating the rights of innocents for as long as they live and/or are free.

                1. I think a better question might be why you would pay to set off a flashbang in a baby’s face, or shoot a 12-year-old boy in the street, or bomb a charity hospital, or take people’s homes from them so a billionaire can build his stadium, or locking people up for decades for possessing unapproved drugs, or prosecuting children as child pornographers.

                  Since you apparently get to decide how the money the government takes from you is spent, I would say you have a lot more to answer for than the decision not to murder people who are no longer a threat to public safety.

                  1. locking people up for decades for possessing unapproved drugs

                    That’s one of the problems with having these prisons you progressives are so enamored of. It’s too easy to create more crimes, build more cages, and hire more (union!) keepers.

                  2. You are confusing legitimate crimes with victimless crime, cronyism, and war. Starting at first principles (mine)…

                    1. A person can do as they wish provided they don’t infringe upon the rights of others
                    2. The ONLY legitimate function of government is to protect the negative rights of individuals.

                    There is a legitimate function for government.

                    You seem to believe that because government is fucked up that anything government does is wrong. The government is only wrong when it violates either tenet above. Unfortunately, the current government doesn’t operate based upon my principles and a good portion of it IS, in fact, immoral. Just not all of it.

                    1. How does murdering a person who has violated people’s rights do any more to protect against future rights violations than keeping that person in a cage for the rest of his/her life (or at least until they are unwilling or unable to do so again)?

                    2. I already answered this.

                      First, it isn’t murder, it’s justice.

                      Second, I don’t care to pay to keep such a shitbag alive for the rest of his disgusting life.

                      Why do you care what happens to a piece of garbage that would murder someone?

                    3. I wouldn’t throw away a life on some stupid quest for emotional satisfaction. Besides, some murdering pieces of garbage go on to lead productive lives, like after their enlistment period is over.

                    4. I wouldn’t throw away a life on some stupid quest for emotional satisfaction.

                      I’m not on a quest, Hugh. Just fair punishment for those who harm innocent people. Why do you think the punishment for legitimate crimes should be less than the crime perpetrated on an innocent?

                      some murdering pieces of garbage go on to lead productive lives, like after their enlistment period is over.

                      Good one Hugh.

                      You’d enjoy so much liberty without a military.

                    5. Maybe you’d better explain to me the difference between justice and satisfying your rage boner, because I’m not seeing it.

                    6. “I disagree with your position. Now explain it to me again whilst I make scornful faces!”

                    7. There may not be a difference. Can you define “satisfying your rage boner”? Would you also describe my working as “satisfying my earning boner”? Paying my bills as “satisfying my responsibility boner”?

                      Adding boner to things isn’t an argument, Hugh, even though people here try and pass it off as one.

                      I am curious what you think is “justice” for murderers? The dude who was recently executed in OK shot a woman and then buried her alive. You think allowing him to live without having to work for the rest of his life is justice? Why do you think that our prisons make anyone “no longer a threat”? Inmates regularly kill guards and other inmates. How is this not a threat?

                    8. “Rage boner?” You say that like it’s wrong.

                      Are you claiming people shouldn’t be outraged when someone murders an innocent?

                      I suggest you rethink your position. I think you’re conflating your disdain for government with the notion that anyone punished by the government is, in fact, innocent.

                    9. #2 is incompatible with the death penalty. Killing a murderer does nothing to protect the negative rights of any individual.

                    10. Killing a murderer does nothing to protect the negative rights of any individual.

                      Sure it does. First, it serves as a deterrent, albeit to a limited degree. Second, it guarantees such an individual won’t do it again while ensuring I don’t need to pay to keep such a shitbag alive. And it fills the need for revenge felt by the victim’s friends and family.

                      Win-win-win

                      I just don’t trust the government enough to get it right, which is why I’m anti-death penalty under the current system. But, I assure you, it has nothing to do with feeling pity for shitbags.

            2. Isn’t an initiation of force. It’s justice for their immoral action.

              It may be justice, but it still is absolutely an initiation of force.

              1. It is no more initiation of force than imprisoning them. If you follow your logic then ALL legal punishment is wrong.

              2. It may be justice, but it still is absolutely an initiation of force.

                No. It is a response to an initiation of force.

                in?i?ti?a?tion
                i?niSH???SH(?)n/
                noun
                1. the action of admitting someone into a secret or obscure society or group, typically with a ritual.
                “rituals of initiation”
                synonyms: beginning, starting, commencement; More
                2. the action of beginning something.
                “the initiation of criminal proceedings”
                synonyms: admit, induct, install, incorporate, enlist, enroll, recruit, sign up, swear in; More

          2. Th’inhumanity of it is in the keeping of a man in a cage for years before getting around to killing him.

  8. The state has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it is not competent to have this power. Even if we didn’t have so many confirmed cases of wrongly convicted/executed the fact that prosecutors fight tooth and nail to have their cases reviewed or convictions reversed alone is reason enough.

    1. Fight tooth and nail against having their convictions reviewed, I meant to say.

      1. Yeah, I look at some of these prosecutorial “abuses” (which I have come to regard as a euphemism for something stronger, like “extreme corruption and wickedness”) and wonder whether I’d trust even a rabid Rottweiler’s life to the likes of these officials.

  9. “the fact remains that alone among all Western countries, the United States is a death penalty country.”

    Perhaps they could define the West. Of course “The West” doesn’t include India, which, though a country with representative government and rule of law, is in the wrong part of the world.

    But surely the West includes the islands of the Caribbean? The good people at Amnesty International (pp. 13-18) report that many Caribbean countries have people on Death Row (but not a lot of executions – I wonder if Amnesty and their allies have any knowledge of the reasons for these delays?).

    Now, Caribbean countries are considered to be in the *West* Indies. So they’re a Western country, right? Or is the implication that there is something about the Caribbean countries (some demographic factor, perhaps?) which makes them imperfectly Western?

    “Part of the reason the American public maintains a steadfast support of its government killing convicted murderers is due to the cloak of secrecy covering executions”

    Which is why so few people were hanged in the era of public executions.

    “The drugs used for lethal injections are experimental, untested, and proving to be ineffective at killing prisoners without excruciating pain.”

    This is horrible! I fully agree with the anti-death-penalty lobby, which helped create this situation, advocate for a more humane method of execution like hanging or shooting.

    1. I have problems with the death penalty, but I also have some problems with the anti-death-penalty crowd.

      1. “I’m for the state killing people for no reason because someone annoyed me.”

        1. I suppose saying something like “I’m conflicted on the issue, but I don’t like the quality of the arguments these anti-death-penalty guys are making” is a bit too nuanced and complicated for the likes of you?

          1. Or you suppose it’s possible you think that arguments in favor of your preferred position should never be challenged, no matter how flawed those arguments might be.

            But such an attitude would be so very contrary to your usual insistence on intellectual rigor.

        2. I’m for the state killing Tony for no other reason than he has openly advocated for the powers that be to murder every single person that disagrees with him, right here on Reason, for all the world to see. Do you need me to post the link, you totalitarian mental midget?

      2. I have no problem with the death penalty if it is enacted by the victim or bystanders upon the aggressor during the commission of the crime. If however, that tiny window of absolute certainty passes then no fucking way.

        1. You wouldn’t give the hounds time to find the perpetrator?

          1. Nope, what if the hounds found his brother or his cousin, or the guy with a tuna sandwich in his pocket?

            1. Or worse yet– as is amply proved with drug dogs– what if they find the person the handlers think is the culprit, because dogs really like to please.

      3. It is a principle vs practice issue for me. In principle I am all for it in egregious cases, but the state has shown that it is not competent to apply it.

        I guess that puts me in the anti crowd.

        1. Would you rather have lynch mobs operating outside the law applying the death penalty instead?

          1. Yes. The state shouldn’t have a monopoly on retributive violence. I’d like to see the good people of Marksville, Louisiana expedite justice in this case.

            1. It was also a super-neat trick, how he narrowed the possibilities down to

              Government

              Crazed lynch mobs (outside of the law, gasp!)

              The only possibilities. No others. Now choose the method of your destruction!

              1. What third option is there between choosing the government and choosing the private sector?

    2. I personally prefer a formulation like, “the fact remains that alone among all countries with more than 150 million people, only Brazil is not a death penalty country.”

    3. I think it falls to the Pope to define the boundaries between East and West.

    4. In slaughtering rats, I’ve not found anything that seems more human than garrotting. It’s quick as you please, stops all signs of consciousness instantly, and there’s nothing liable to go horribly wrong. Inert gasses also seem to work without inducing any apparent discomfort, but the process is much lengthier and any number of little things can go wrong. Also, females, for whatever reason, have to be kept in the chamber for considerably longer before gross life signs evanesce and even then for a while after if one wants to be sure they won’t come back to life (sort of); with the males it’s straightforward and much faster. But with garrotting, it’s a piece of piss, over in seconds. I don’t, however, understand the economic substrate that causes an animal to stop showing any signs of consciousness instantly upon being masterfully garrotted (and in most cases, the only gross life sign to persist for any time is heartbeat), but I’d natheless be surprised it doesn’t work the same pon mankind, our friends.

  10. OT:

    The stunned New York customer wrote on Twitter: “For 25 minutes I had to tell this stranger, this human being like you and I, that he was not part of what was happening.

    “He cried the whole way to my apartment and it made me cry too. He kept saying, ‘Allah, my god, does not believe in this. People think I’m a part of this and I’m not’.”

    [New York] Man describes ‘saddest moment’ after getting into taxi with crying Muslim driver following Paris attacks

    1. If that’s a “saddest moment” you’ve had an incredibly easy life

      1. Yeahr it’s like when folks go on about how this or that thing is “the worst suffering imaginable” or something, and nine times out of ten they aren’t even describing something on the level with the every day sufferings of most other folks struggling through life. And when it is something legitimately terrible, the fact is a retarded eight year old Welsh child fresh out of the mines could easily imagine something even worser.

    2. Huh, I thought “Muslims are the biggest victims here” wouldn’t start till Monday. Guess we are rushing ahead on “must stop anti-Muslim backlash,” so that we can get to “but didn’t the Paris deserve it, in a way?” before it’s time to knock off for holidays.
      He forgot #illridewithyou tag, this would have been the perfect time to bring it back. AGW conference may be dead (or is it?), but that’s no reason to stop recycling!

    3. His driver, a Muslim, explained Malloy had been his first customer in more than two hours – blaming the people of New York being too scared to get into his cab.

      I find this highly unbelievable.

      1. Remember how a brave woman stood by a Muslim female passenger after the Islamic swinery in Sydney?

        Only she didn’t, but built the movement out of her own misplaced sense of guilt?

        This seems like a same thing.

        1. Ugh, what the hell is wrong with people. “Maybe she was just hot but MUH FEELZ!”

          1. They are collectivists. They feel guilt because of something someone else did because they can be categorized with the perpetrators in some arbitrary fashion. I would guess that ‘guilt of the fathers onto the sons’ would seem logical to them.

            I never felt that way.

            What I find troubling is that if they behaved this way because they felt guilt, how will they behave when they feel fear? They are going to collectivize again and the camps and deportations will begin.

        2. Her narrative is the complete humble-brag. “See how enlightened I am? I AM THE AWESOME!”

          I despise Western narcissistic sanctimony disguised as humanitarianism. It’s the equivalent of making sure your neighbors see how much you drop into the donation plate at church.

          1. It’s worse – at least they see you dropping big bucks at the church, which means you are giving up something. Conspicuously giving up wealth to gain status is as old as the human race.
            This is literally doing nothing, then basking in praise for it.

      2. I am glad he used to the moment to bring attention to himself on the internet, even if it was true, which I highly doubt it is.

        1. In my experience over 20 years, about 99% of cab drivers in NYC are Muslim – and usually Pakistan or Bangladesh, not Arabs. If cab ridership suddenly dropped to zero yesterday, it would be the top story on every news outlet in the city, if not the country.

        2. That his cab was a 2003 Toyota Pickup with a machine gun mounted in the bed had nothing to do with it.

          1. I lol’ed

          2. I lol’ed

          3. Come on, who wouldn’t want to ride shotgun (well, dushka) in THAT cab?!

    4. Shockingly, the list of things that I accept as plausible evidence does not include ‘vapid, emotionally manipulative Twitter commentary’.

  11. Avoiding the question of whether the death penalty should even exist, how hard would it be to just fill a room full of CO2? If they’re going to have a death penalty, they could easily do it quickly and without problems. I wonder if there’s anything any level of the government can do competently.

    1. Or a simple heroin/morphine overdose. Or CO poisoning. Or one of other ways for painless death, all of which have been campaigned against by death penalty opponents, until only a small, ever-diminishing set remains.
      Basically, if it’s a popular suicide method, it should be looked at as a possible execution method. But, that’s not how the ratchet is working.
      Disclaimer: I’m philosophically in favour of death penalty for certain cases, but against it in practice on utilitarian grounds.

      1. I’m against the death penalty in principle and in practice, but if they’re going to do it they should just put a bullet through the condemned person’s head, unannounced, while that person sleeps. However, proponents of execution seem to get a real boner from the ceremonial aspects. The last supper, last words, the audience, etc. Barbaric.

    2. Madam Guillotine solved the problem in about 1300.

        1. No.

          1. The Halifax Gibbet was a wooden structure of two wooden uprights, capped by a horizontal beam, of a total height of 4.5 metres (15 ft). The blade was an axe head weighing 3.5 kg (7.7 lb), attached to the bottom of a massive wooden block that slid up and down in grooves in the uprights. This device was mounted on a large square platform 1.25 metres (4 ft) high. It is not known when the Halifax Gibbet was first used; the first recorded execution in Halifax dates from 1280,

            1. Holinshed’s Chronicles of 1577 included a picture of “The execution of Murcod Ballagh near to Merton in Ireland 1307” showing a similar execution machine, suggesting early use in Ireland.[4]

              1. Those are beheading machines. Not the machine invented by the person you reference

                1. Pendant gonna pendant.

                  1. Pendant gonna pendant.

                    John has become Nikki, and Lady Bertram has become John. What is happening to this place?!

                    1. John has become Nikki, and Lady Bertram has become John. What is happening to this place?!

                      LOL

            2. That is not a guillotine.

              1. It is the earliest version of it.

                Stop already.

                1. If it is the same machine then why reference the person? A model T is an early version of the car, that doesn’t make it a Prius.

                  1. You’re becoming Bo-like in your pedantry, John.

                    Think on that.

                    1. How could Madame Guillotine solved a problem 500 years before she was born? That is what you said.

                    2. A pre-guillotine device was used in parts of England and Ireland circa 1300 or so. That is historically accurate. I used the name almost everyone is familiar with instead of Halifax Gibbet for easy reference. Your weird desire to correct this is a bit creepy. Not getting enough intellectual affirmation from other sources?

                    3. To be fair, in your original statement you did directly reference ‘Madam Guillotine’, implying that she developed the device five hundred years before actually existing.

                      So John is technically correct.

                      Personally I have a fondness for the ol’ ‘bullet to the heart, bullet to the right part of the brain’ technique. Last part’s important, don’t need any Phineas Gages walking around.

              2. “That is not a guillotine.”

                Well, it ain’t a pipe, either.

                1. I built a guillotine once. Stage prop, 18ft tall. Steel lined rails, foamcore blade. The thing screeched as it fell. First time I was ever terrified by something I built. Shudders.

    3. It wouldn’t be hard, just expensive. A 22 behind the ear costs pennies.

      1. Vasily Blokhin preferred a.25 to the base of the skull. Costs a little more than rimfire but you lose precious minutes with the .22’s higher rate of misfire.

        1. High rate of misfire? What 22s are you using? Let me guess…Lightning Bolts. *snicker*

          Here is what it sounded like the last time I ran some of those through my K-22:

          Pow, pop, BANG, fffffftt, click, BLAM

    4. Nitrogen. If you had decent materials and some halfway competent engineering, it’d be no problem, and it will asphyxiate a man without provoking a suffocation reaction. Even using a setup that’s total shit work bungeed together out of shit materials, it’ll work great nine times out of ten. Plus, it’s free, so who wouldn’t? If anything went haywire, chances are all that happens is the guy takes a little nap, doesn’t die; at the very worst, he painlessly loses consciousness and gets braindamaged but doesn’t die. Guess what? You can try it again! Till it works. No skin off anybody’s nose. It blows my mind that suicidal folks agonise over the need to get a doctor to help them kill themselves by giving them a prescription for lethal drugs when they could just get a flask of nitrogen and sheet of plastic and be done with it with total confidence and no chance of suffering.

  12. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015…..cebook.com

    I love how the times calls them “Somali militants”. Clearly religion had nothing to do with it.

  13. Jesus H Christ Obama is a douche bag.

    http://m.washingtontimes.com/n…..for-paris/

    1. Geez, the other leaders could have had the decency to wait for Obama to appear.

      1. Like all of humanity, they are unworthy of his greatness.

    2. There’s no reason that I can think of to argue with you about that.

    3. I am looking at Putin’s face and imagining that is exactly what he is thinking. That is Putin in at 5’Oclock isnt it?

  14. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8569602

    Huff sets a high bar for the most idiotic response to Paris.

    1. If we don’t do X, the terrorists will have won. The terrorists want a rise of 2 degrees in the climate, therefore…

    2. That is beyond fucking retarded. If citizens of the west do not now know that they alone and have to guarantee their own safety, then it is likely they will have none.

      I said this yesterday, but it’s worth repeating. Governments are not going to protect you, they are heavily invested in you feeling unsafe and in need of saving. If you want to protect yourself and your family, you are on your own.

      1. People will do that. Mostly by slaughtering Muslims. When the government won’t protect people, people protect themselves through mob violence.

        1. ?

          Not sure if serious.

          1. I am totally serious. What do you think is going to happen? If the government won’t stop Muslim terrorism, the population will just rise up and slaughter the Muslim population. You will end up with something like what happened in the Balkins.

            1. That is exactly what happened in the Balkans.

              1. That is exactly opposite of what happened in the Balkans.

                Hate to be FTFY guy, but yeah, Croatian and Bosnian wars were both started and ran by competing governments, and most atrocities were done by uniformed goons from variously named military groups that ultimately answered to one government or another.

                And don’t worry, the moment Sons of Martel or someshit like that blows up a mosque, you’ll see hundreds of people rounded up, FN offices raided, everyone who so much as wandered by them interrogated for hours, anti free-speech laws applied to the max, and any public figure not of the EU elite hounded by the media and blamed for the attack for weeks after.

                1. Huh, you are right. I have read enough about it, long ago, to remember that much of it was perpetrated by individuals and mobs, but you are right. The majority was by government agents. I guess the individual/mob thing made the most impression on me because I remember when it first started people here were mailing guns to individuals there. I remember a story on a 20 yo girl who became a sniper and photos of her proudly holding up her Winchester Mod 70 that some American had donated to her.

                  Also, the Russian’s invaded Afghanistan for much the same reason we did. Jihadi’s were based there and going into the USSR making lots of trouble.

                  John may still be right. Government efforts fail. It is one thing when they fail in a far off land, but if they fail here where our children live we are going to pick up the gun.

            2. So you are saying that the appropriate response is genocide?

              1. Absolutely not. Just assessing. Appropriate has nothing to do with what will likely happen if they keep pulling shit like the Paris attack and countless others.

        2. In the USA, yes, it will come to that. In Europe, no, France is done, Sweden is done, probably the UK is done, all will be caliphates. It will be interesting to see what Germany will do when the first attacks come, which will be soon.

          1. Muslims are still less than 20% of all those places. And the natives control the army and police forces. The Muslims won’t stand a chance in any of those places.

            1. Yeah, it would be easy to defeat radical Islam if the people were in charge, which is the way it’s supposed to be. Unfortunately, governments love this, it’s a crisis not to waste. We are all on our own, governments, worldwide, do not represent the people, they represent their own self.

            2. The swedish government announced they were sending the cops to stop or slow the muslim invaders streaming over the border because the people were getting upset about it. Then they put so many restrictions on the cop’s ability to do anything that they effectively called it off. The numbers of invaders remains unchanged.

          2. To be too sure about that. Nobody goes full jackboot faster than the Europeans.

    3. The terrorists will have won if we don’t proceed with this aimless, pointless conference that won’t change a damned thing.

      1. Our oil consumption is funding terrorism… hmmm – where have I heard this argument before?

        1. Fox News and global warming(which hasn’t been happening for nearly 20 years) has caused all of this. The criminal politicians like Hollande, Obama, and Clinton have nothing to do with it.

          Tar and feathers, we have to bring those back.

        2. All those white males working in Eagle Ford, the Permian basin, and the Bakken are spending their ill-gotten oil-soaked cash on arsenals of assault weapons and light/medium off road vehicles.

          1. Now you’re getting it.

              1. 45-57 or fight!

    4. They are fanatics. It is this kind of shit that started me seriously questioning the whole global warming theory in the first place. The deeper I dug the worse it got. It is a scam, plain and simple, and it’s believers are fanatics. Argue with one and it is just like arguing with a religious fanatic. All of their arguments are from a single, fixed conclusion toward the evidence instead of the other way about.

    5. You know, if you get so stressed by this terrorist attack that you forget to give me lots of Christmas presents, the terrorists will have won.

      And I’m not just saying this as a way to use terrorism as an excuse to get what I want.

      No, I’m an actual terrorism expert and my expertise says you need to give me lots of stuff this Christmas.

  15. Gotta love how France immediately shuts it’s borders after lecturing us about how only bigots without a heart would do such a thing. If multiculturalism were the answer, shouldn’t they have responded by opening the border even more?

    1. Don’t worry, they will. Just wait.

    2. Who wants to go to France anyway? Germany is where it’s at.

    3. It’s still a far cry from Hollande’s idiotic, trumped up claims of ‘pitiless war’. People in the West seem to forget what ‘pitiless’ war actually entails. It means a lot more bodies (and a lot more empty ghettos) than either Hollande or the French people are likely willing to entertaining (not like that’s a bad thing, but the chest-puffing is moronic).

  16. Fucking marmalade kings. Fucking peanut butter and jelly politics. That’s what this world is about. Fucking plastic screens with 2D news plays dramatically twisting the tongues upon at the altars of the new and fucking jarring.

      1. Q be slappin some youtunes on this fucker.

        1. Mr. Kolhatkar is interesting.

          1. Well this is a lovely digital cowboi.

              1. I did not understand a word, but I did learn that we need to import some lady Australians to America.

                1. Oh yeah. She can tell me I’m sexist for believing three times three is nine all night long.

  17. ? Hi! My name is
    Who? My name is
    What? My name is
    Chicka-chicka Death Penalty

    Hi kids! Do you like violence? (Yeah yeah yeah!)
    Wanna see me stick a syringe, through some guy’s arm vein? (Uh-huh!)
    Wanna copy me and do exactly like I did? (Yeah yeah!)
    Try a con and get fucked him up worse that my life is? (Huh?)

    1. Derpe melted into a death sandwich on a very hot prison pan.

  18. Was chilling with a special forces dude the other day at a bar and he was drunk as was I… but I was more fucked up because I was doing cocaine and he started spamming my crap about wind walkers and fuck. Motherfucker who i refuse to name or elude to started commencing this weird crap about how fucking elite tech is turning to wind soldiers and the fucking pentagon has some shits in the basement making acid drops on uniforms that trance them into wind walkers. the fuck do I know? I love acid and if you take acid the military sends your ass into Louisiana alleys because Jindal has Sheriff’s who have house payments. But, rest assured if the brick thick fucks thought acid could create wind walkers they’d use it in a second. and they do. but the acid is hallucinations blasted on the battlefields. in the alleys. Man… prob should recoil, low down, rail back, drain the brain. Peace out.

  19. fucking wwtroi will be more fucking difficult to make on the strategic alignments of photos, stills, videos, and arrangements of paid journalists. Lot of fucking minds gathering that won’t be fooled world thingy super power bicep god.

    I think ISIL exists because the UAE has British and American cocks deep in the Arab family asshole. The UAE can make all sorts of things disappear and ISIL is a barnacle like Iran or that fuck in Turkey.

    CNN, FOX, and all sorts of so-called playsets for government ticklings haven’t a clue how the world works.

    I’m pretty sure no one does because the only thing making cable TV actually exist is shitty insurance ads and insurance ads and ads about other shows with other insurance ads.

    1. Also, big pharma ads. shitty pharma ads alongside shitty insurance ads. And these ads have somehow mesmerized millions of fucking cable tube viewers into watching more screen shitting into their faces.

      so yea. fucking cable tv shit spray and the end of the world.

  20. little edges are narrow
    and when the metal melts off
    into the fulcrum of times the wails of dogs remain
    calling their ranks on the hills of the dead knowing
    their masters lie beneath rubble.

  21. sand ends abruptly into the great mouth of the dry dead
    and the lightning whips tornadoes of loving oak leaves
    onto the old sands mounted on the great mouth of the dry dead
    and the tsunami gathers the palms and bodies and sweeps its
    booty onto the hearth of the universe along with the wands, winds, sands, bombs, and endings and the trailings wander like bloody foot prints alongside broken hulls of felled spaceships.

  22. I just paid an old fine I’m pretty sure I’ve paid already. The government is either inept, dishonest, or both. They sure shouldn’t be deciding who deserves to die.

    1. the government is a block of DenverJs.
      DenverJ has been multiplied and enhanced with magic powers
      granted by a group of people who have seized power from the rest of a larger group of people.
      And this elite group of people have considerable resources to create a world that you and I learn to
      believe is real.

  23. if alleys called you walking along the concrete strip
    what would your space respond to? would you aid the
    broken futures of the lost melting and dripping only?

    if the light flickered under the melting byway of a screen of faces
    you can’t save them and neither can i. we can only be devastated and
    try to repair us and hack normality

    paris is hurting my veins this place, lovers. paris is bending the trees of my mind, man
    the fall of pain drips clouds of gray and my mountains have been felled
    innocents have fallen to the heavens of the lost and brutal

    1. I would pay for your review of Seveneves..

      1. I love you like a pink lush pussy. I love you like the brush whispers of an angry Picasso smashing his ghost paint against my dick. I think Q should draw on the moon and space

        1. Guernica as an asteroid strike?

          1. the asteroid would loving smash its atomic dick into the lives of our painter and his lovers on an evening of a sweet moon, Q.
            q and agile would look upon the abyss of Picasso and his lovers broken by space smashings and we would hike down into the broken junk of our dreams and find a dead Picasso and his token two lovers of young female age with their tits and vaginas piercing from their death and Picasso would die with a massive erection and the blue tinge of space would fall down into the valley of masterpiece death while we stuck our hard cocks in the mouth of the dead Picasso and fondled the tits of the lost.

            1. If i swing a brush, it is because it makes money. If it doesn’t, the last thing I do is complain about capitalism. Upon the arrival of the Agent, I recognize myself as a purveyor of luxury goods.

              1. Or painting signs for evangelicals.

  24. The entire system is fake. The news is fake. Our education is fake. What is real is what ‘you’ seek out for yourself.

    Voting is fake. The entire voting system is rigged and the pretend angst on CNN and FOX is nothing more than pretend. The system at the top will ultimately find its voice. Like it has for decades. The people are mostly tired families raising kids and shit and paying mortgages and truck payments or getting divorced and crap and going to bars to find shitty lovers and crap… all while the real ‘big’ system plays out around them perfectly, or somewhat perfectly, managed by very powerful political machines. News is written. The questions are penned by writers. The faces you see are like a show. Commercials are sold and that pretty or handsome face you see reads lines posted on prompters by writers and funnily FOX people HATE the dude I dislike also called fucking OBama for reading prompters.

    Just shut the fuck up…. the entire world of goddamn cable TV is reading fucking lines on prompters. they are ALL reading lines… NONE OF IT IS REAL…

    breaking news isn’t even real… Progressive insurance and the fucking idiot lizard and the kingdom of pills all make sure of this.

  25. the world is not real, man
    whispers landing on our ears from robots
    should make us be concerned from being ripped
    from our graves, man
    death isn’t certain and dead brains might rise one day
    becuase Mr. Los Angels in his office on the 40 floor
    figured out a way to raise the goddamn dead, motherfucking fuckers

    fucking application of mathematics that bent earth time and shit and all the fucking people brain energy
    went fucking ether. and shit got cranky and wonky

  26. well if you break the curtains of quiet voices behind your lost skulls
    the fear is an alley of tormented cries
    and the long tall halls you walk in will abandon your edges while
    the floors drop out and we grab the edges before we die and then the sun
    sends a beam out underneath the clouds of devastation and you fall upon her
    rays like a space bull bucking your life into earth and i fell tumbling and mesmerized
    by my own death the energy of dark matter bending me into my self and my brain
    realizing parallel nuclears and the poetic death of deep places.

  27. Rand Paul can’t get traction because the beast isn’t real. Rand Paul can NOT ever win. The beast is the American abyss of politics and media which is the greatest picnic of elites ever.

    fucking Americans are, in.fact.the.stupidest.fucks.ever. for believing. in. the. system.

    Look at the UAE which brutally murders witches and gays every years by chopping their heads off.

    Every. Fucking. Year. Tons of innocent people get killed and Fox and CNN splutter on about tornadoes and Cruz and unfair this and that bullshit. and American politicians? They can suck my cock because they are ALL FUCKING LOSERS- the UAE is our ‘friend’? and not a SINGLE fucking msm place reports on this shit daily?

    Don’t fucking tell me the news isn’t a managed farm.

  28. the quiet alleyways of my mind calls me away my brothers and i have more journeys that begin past my present finger presses. I will seek very deep journeys and the wails of the present and past do hold warriors I’ve never met and I hope to avoid so as the brain falls so do my finger words. i love you

  29. If you want to get progs on board with the death penalty, let planned parenthood carry out the executions.

  30. OT:
    Neighbor bought into the ‘taxpayers buy solar panels for you, you sell electrons’ scam.
    By careful analysis, she discovered she was paid $XX.XX for the electrons PG&E sold for $YY.YY, meaning they made a “profit” of $ZZ.ZZ! Simple: X – Y = Z PROFIT!.
    Comments regarding selling raw goods at wholesale and ‘packaged’ goods at retail really didn’t go far, until I asked if I could call her at some miserable o-dark thirty when a drunk knocked a pole down and cut service? Would she please send a crew out and how damn long is it going to be before I can make a pot of coffee?!
    It just might have lit a candle…

  31. More OT:
    Wymenz are SPECIAL!

    “Female Cops Sue Department for ‘Discrimination’ After Failing Physical Fitness Test”
    […]
    “The incident began when 12 female officers, all over the age of 40, failed to meet the Colorado Springs Police Department’s physical requirements, which include performing 52 push-ups and 45 sit-ups in four minutes time and two running exams.”
    http://www.redflagnews.com/hea…..tness-test

    Yep, they’re suing for tests that accept their ‘specialness’ so they can get ‘equal’ treatment! And I don’t wanna hear any triggers here!

    1. They could always move to NYC. I’m not seeing any “fitness test” happening here.

  32. For the truly horrible monsters out there like Dahmer, Gacy, Pickton, etc. it’s hard to object to the death penalty.

    Unfortunately, 99% of the people on death row are mostly the robbery gone wrong sort. And going off of past history the beyond a reasonable doubt standard has a lot of problems with it. So until we can create some sort of legal category for super-duper, 100% no fooling fry his ass level of guilty, I’m against the death penalty.

    As for complaining about the experimental nature of the drugs being used in lethal injections, that didn’t happen in a vacuum. The anti-death penalty activists used political and economic pressure to force drug companies to stop manufacturing and selling drugs used for lethal injections.

    Oklahoma didn’t change the drugs used for lethal injections for shits and giggles, they did it because they could no longer buy the drugs they used for lethal injections, so they grabbed the next closest thing.

    This is like celibacy advocates outlawing the pill and condoms, then getting pissed that there’s a suddenly a large uptick in abortions. Change is much more effective from the bottom-up than top-down.

    1. ^+1
      Handle I don’t recognize but solid logic.

    2. Agreed.

      Instead of beyond reasonable doubt…no doubt, where the death penalty is requested.

      1. “no doubt, where the death penalty is requested.”
        A standard which is impossible to meet, which thereby removes the power of the state to kill someone held in custody.
        Let ’em rot, or (maybe) let ’em get out if they deserve it, as far too many do.

        1. A standard which is impossible to meet

          No, I disagree. There are many circumstances where 12 neutral people would have no doubt the perpetrator was guilty. Overwhelming evidence. Crime was captured on independent, verified video. Where the crime is witnessed by a shit-ton of people and the perp is caught in the act. I mean is there any doubt that Maj. Nidal Hasan did it? You can fry fuckers like that. If it doesn’t rise to that level, life is all you can do.

          1. Sorry, I’m not going to take your argument apart tonight, but given EVERY one of those circumstances, I promise I can find a possible ‘ooops’. Maybe not one you’d agree with, but one that someone would; hence no universally-acceptable-no-possible-mistake decision.

            1. Doesn’t need to be universally acceptable. Just no doubt in the minds of the 12, a higher standard than beyond reasonable doubt and they are they have no problem putting a person to death over. My example stands. Who thinks Maj. Nidal Hasan isn’t 100% guilty?

              1. Barack Hussein Obama?

                Hitler?

    3. The problem with the death penalty is that we have forgotten many of the the purposes of having it. The death penalty is more than just revenge. When properly administered it serves the purpose of deterring certain crimes where no other deterrent is available. If you don’t have a death penalty, it is very difficult to deter people who are already facing the rest of their life in prison. It is no coincidence that the ending of the death penalty and replacing it with super long prison sentences has corresponded with the rise of the super max prison. Without the threat of the death penalty, there is no way to deter people serving life sentences from victimizing guards and other inmate other than the threat of increasingly harsh conditions, which ends in Supermax for the really hard cases.

    4. The other problem is that without the death penalty there is no way to deter criminals from murdering the victims of their crimes in hopes of eliminating witnesses. One of the few places where the death penalty has been found to be an effective deterrent is the enforcement of the death penalty in felony murder cases. When the death penalty ended, robberies got much more violent. Before, criminals were more careful and less violent because if anyone got killed, it turned a five to ten year sentence into a trip to the electric chair. Without the death penalty that threat no longer exists.

      To the extent we have the death penalty, it is used strictly as revenge in cases where the jury really hates the defendant. It is applied in such a haphazard manner that it doesn’t achieve any of the goods it once achieved other than making us feel good when someone like Gacy finally gets theirs.

  33. I’ll re-link it in the AM links, but:

    “Amid student protests, some see erosion of free speech”
    Ya think?

    “People wrongly believe they have a right not to be offended. That is not only faulty, but we as educators have a duty to be offensive in the sense of forcing people to rethink their fundamental assumptions,” said New York Law School Professor Nadine Strossen, the former president of the American Civil Liberties Union. “Diversity is cited as this mantra, yet we are killing ideological diversity, which is just as important.”
    Note the ACLU said nothing about it, just a former president. Go ACLU! Straight to hell.
    http://news.yahoo.com/amid-stu…..58597.html

    1. This more than anything is the biggest threat facing America. This PC shit has to be eradicated. I would love for Rand Paul to win the republican primary but its not going to happen. I’m going to vote for Trump for this very reason. I don’t agree with Trump 100% but the fuck you he gives to the PC crowd is enough to clinch my vote. To me, the most sacred of the rights that are protected under the BOR is the freedom of speech. That’s the first one these little fascist want to throw in the garbage can. They’ll come after the rest of them eventually.

    2. “Diversity is cited as this mantra, yet we are killing ideological diversity, which is just as important.”

      Tolerance means not tolerating anyone with different ideas, because different ideas are intolerant, and tolerant people do not tolerate intolerance.

      1. In other words, killing ideological diversity is their goal. Everything else they say is a cloak for that.

        1. “But why would you want to think bad thoughts? That in itself shows you are mentally ill. We only want to help you be a better person!”

          1. Maybe we could start some fun camps for adults like me to go to learn to be a better person.

        2. They use emotive terms like tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity, and then attack anyone who disagrees with them as being against those emotive terms. It’s distilled irony.

          1. It is a deliberate, calculated attempt at deception. Some might use the word ‘lie’.

            1. I don’t think so. I think they really feel that they are in the right. I said “feel” not “think” because if they gave it any rational thought they’d see the hypocrisy in what they do. But they don’t think. They’re like Tony. They’re immune to logic and reason.

          2. This will be for me a most memorable example of the progressive SJW:

            http://www.mediaite.com/tv/miz…..vironment/

      2. I am just now seeing this:

        http://missouri.edu/statements…..eports.php

        Bullshit. I guess they don’t understand the concept of credibility.

        http://www.naturalnews.com/051…..ation.html

        1. Fake but accurate. I mean, it felt true, and that’s all that matters.

        2. Speaking of credibility, Natural News doesn’t exactly come off as awfully credible as a news source.

  34. These Moarning Lynx are getting moar and moar depressing. Plus, moar like “Moarning LINK”, amirite?

    1. I am seeing nothing. Is it a holiday or something?

      1. Moment of silence?

        1. A moment of muffled conversation for the treated and released.

  35. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11…..p=cur&_r=1

    It not only could happen here, it is likely going to in the next year in either DC or New York or maybe both. ISIS has been very clear about their intentions of attacking the US. What possible reason is there to believe they are kidding?

  36. The secrecy has nothing to do with the support. Most supporters think the executions should be held in the public square while the crimes are read out before the execution. Each notification of a execution should be accompanied by a description of the crimes they were convicted of. Support for the Death Penalty would rise.

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