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Politics

Free Speech Under Fire; Two Gunmen Killed at Texas "Draw Mohammed" Contest

Free speech is never a justification for violence - or submitting to the thug's veto.

Nick Gillespie | 5.4.2015 7:47 AM

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Breitbart.com

At a "Draw Mohammed" contest held yesterday in Garland, Texas, two gunmen who opened fire on the crowd were killed:

The attackers drove up and opened fire on the security guard as the event was finishing up about 7 p.m. (8 p.m. ET), said Joe Harn, a spokesman for the Garland police.

Officers at the heavily-policed event returned fire, killing the men.

The suspects' bodies remained at the scene because investigators were concerned there could be a bomb in their car. A bomb squad robot was checking the vehicle, Harn said.

A police officer was also wounded.

More here.

The event was organized by Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer, known for their outspoken views on jihadism and Islam, and the similarly controversial Dutch politician Geert Wilders was one of the main draws (go here for an announcement of the contest). According to a 2013 Daily Beast article, Geller and Spencer have a mixed record at best of defending free speech when it comes to views they find appalling and dangerous.

It's not immediately clear who was behind the attack (one suspected gunman's Twitter account has been removed), despite claims that it was connected to the Islamic State.

Breitbart.com has livestream of the event, an interview with Geller, and much more.

Twitter was full of the event and arguments over the shooting, Geller's reputation for inflaming opinions, and more, including this from a New York Times' foreign correspondent:

Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"?

— Rukmini Callimachi (@rcallimachi) May 4, 2015

It's not fully clear to me that there is an "aside" beyond "free speech," but Reason of course hosted a similar contest back in 2010 after violence in the wake of the Jyllands-Posten controversy and American cartoonist Mollie Norris faced death threats for suggesting such a thing.

Why did we? As I wrote at the time:

There comes a point in any society's existence where it must ultimately, to paraphrase Martin Luther (who himself was more than happy to see opponents put to death), dig in its heels and say here we stand, we will do no other. We don't need to be perfectly consistent philosophically or historically or theologically to assert what is special and unique not just about the United States, with its bizarre and wonderful articulation of the First Amendment, but the greater classical liberal project comprising not just the "West" (whatever that is) but human beings in whatever town, country, or planet they inhabit. And at the heart of the liberal project is ultimately a recognition that individuals, for no other reason than that they exist, have rights to continue to exist. Embedded in all that is the right to expression. No one has a right to an audience or even to a sympathetic hearing, much less an engaged audience. But no one should be beaten or killed or imprisoned simply for speaking their mind or praying to one god as opposed to the other or none at all or getting on with the small business of living their life in peaceful fashion. If we cannot or will not defend that principle with a full throat, then we deserve to choke on whatever jihadists of all stripes can force down our throats.

More on the contest here.

The recent contest comes in the wake of the murder of staffers at Charlie Hebdo, the French magazine routinely and wrongly attacked as racist and reactionary (read Matt Welch on that and on American writers denouncing PEN giving an award to the writers, editors, and illustrated shot to death by Islamic radicals). Much of the commentary over this latest shooting will doubtless revolve the odiousness of Pamela Geller," her track record of "provocations," and the like.

That is simply besides the much larger and more important point that free speech is free speech and should never be challenged by the thug's veto or bullets or violence. The United States Constitution doesn't simply enshrine free speech in the First Amendment but also religious freedom and freedom of assembly. These things are all intertwined and an attack on one is an attack on the others. 

Allowing infringements on any of that—whether out of sensitivity, fear, or distaste with particular groups (whether Charlie Hebdo or Geller)—is not a small thing and it's never a final thing, either. Giving in to violent reprisals doesn't end them, it only sets the stage for the next choking down of free expression and the openness of society.

In the wake of the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, President Obama announced that "the future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," while blaming the death of a U.S. ambassador and soldiers on a YouTube video that supposedly created a spontaneous demonstration against the country that had recently helped liberate Libya from a dictator. The president was wrong then and those who say we must rein in free speech are wrong now. The threats to speech are not simply emanating from terrorists who pledge allegiance to a demented form of Islamic theocracy. They are everywhere throughout America today and despite an ever-increasing number of platforms from which to speak, the plain fact is that "incursions against free speech and a truly unregulated marketplace of ideas" are also flourishing.

The future must belong to those who recognize a categorical difference between free expression and violent reprisals. The future must belong to those who affirm speech over silence and freedom over fear, regardless of who is speaking and who is offended.

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NEXT: Steve Chapman on False Fears About Free Trade

Nick Gillespie is an editor at large at Reason and host of The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie.

PoliticsWorldNanny StateWar on DrugsScience & TechnologyCultureCivil LibertiesEconomicsPolicyDraw Mohammed DayOpennessCharlie Hebdo MassacreTerrorismFree Speech
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  1. Idle Hands   10 years ago

    Can anyone else believe the victim blaming going on here?

    1. Almanian!   10 years ago

      *raises hand*

      Yes. Yes, I can. Cause people actually ARE that retarded. Yep. Not surprising at all. Which is too bad.

      1. Res ipsa loquitur   10 years ago

        Look, that dress was a little bit too sexy, if you know what I mean.

        1. Anarcissie   10 years ago

          The whole thing looks like a setup to me. It's just too, too perfect. We have someone who is a professional, public, indeed, prominent enemy of Muslims and Islam, who puts on a provocative show in the heart of gun-nut country. And who should show up at the party but a pair of jihadis ready to commit a massacre, but whose tickets are then definitively punched by local law enforcement, in case there are any inconvenient beans to spill? Would it be that much trouble to locate a couple of crazy people and push them in the right direction? Maybe help them out a little? And have some militarized police wearing combat gear forward them to Allah, as they seemed to desire?

          And then everyone can huff and puff about free speech and feel good all over.

          Everyone should be happy. Enjoy, enjoy.

          1. MSimon   10 years ago

            It is delightful innit? And no bystanders were harmed. Them Texans shoot straight.

            Advice On Texas For Those Ill Informed

          2. WuzYoungOnceToo   10 years ago

            I'm sure that all sounded good while it was still inside your head. Unfortunately, you got almost nothing right. We're still struggling to get our legislature to pass the open carry bill that's been a hair away from passage for a month now so that we can become the 45th U.S. state to legalize the practice, so calling TX "the heart of gun-nut country" is a profoundly ill-informed comment.

            Secondly, you think the fact that a pair of jihadists did what jihadists have been doing for decades is "convenient" and smacks of a "setup"? Are you similarly suspicious when the sun rises in the East each day?

            Thirdly, the jihadists in question were NOT forwarded to Allah by "militarized police wearing combat gear". The SWAT team members were inside at the time. The good shooting came from a regularly-uniformed patrol cop who dispatched the pair with his standard-issue sidearm (which, for me, was the most surprising part of the whole story.)

            And...should we not feel good that, in this case, freedom won and would-be mass murders lost?

            1. WuzYoungOnceToo   10 years ago

              By the way...the sharp-shooting patrol cop wasn't even on-duty at the time. He was working security at the center as a side-job, like a lot of cops do.

    2. Scarecrow Repair   10 years ago

      I wasn't aware anyone was blaming the two dead victims alleged gunmen.

      1. Dweebston   10 years ago

        They're victims of baiting by intransigent Westerners.

        1. WuzYoungOnceToo   10 years ago

          - "They're victims of baiting by intransigent Westerners."

          Well, to be fair, the incident quickly started being referred to locally as a case of hunting over bait. 😀

      2. ConstitutionFirst   10 years ago

        Then you haven't been listening to the Government Media complex.
        Can't say I blame you.
        Everyone has a limit to the amount of lies and propaganda they can stand.

    3. WTF   10 years ago

      Drawing a picture of Mohammed is no different than Adam Lanza killing school children.

      1. AlexInCT   10 years ago

        Much easier to pick on Christians. They don't resort to violence when they get pissed off....

        1. Governor Squid   10 years ago

          Not yet, anyway. Guess they're just slow learners.

        2. Poppa Kilo   10 years ago

          "And if he does not have a sword let him sell his coat and buy one..."

          1. EV   10 years ago

            Uhm context much? The disciples were about to go out into the world preaching a new message and had enemies literally around every corner with the Jews and the Romans trying to kill them.

            Or do you not realize that like 12 hours later Jesus was put to death?

            1. Poppa Kilo   10 years ago

              Uhm, reading comprehension much?

              That's kind of my point - there are places in the world right now where Christians have 'enemies literally around every corner' who are 'trying to kill them' - and succeeding much too often.

              1. Monty Crisco   10 years ago

                How dare you try to justify arming yourself on a thread about people justifying arming themselves!!!

              2. EV   10 years ago

                Lol oops my bad. I'm so used to people pointing out that the Bible is violent and blah blah etc.

                You have my apologies!

        3. Win Bear   10 years ago

          Christians certainly used to resort to violence when they got pissed off, and in a big way. These days, Christianity has become a lapdog of the state, of course.

          1. Zeb   10 years ago

            Christianity has become a lapdog of the state, of course

            When was that not the case? I suppose for a while the state was a lapdog to Christianity. But it didn't really take off in a big way until it became a state religion. Pretty much since the Pope stopped having it's own armies it's been a tool used by states. Much like most popular religions.

            Anyway, the greater restraint in using violence to fight perceived blasphemy and insults is one of the good things about Christians.

            1. Win Bear   10 years ago

              When was that not the case? I suppose for a while the state was a lapdog to Christianity.

              Correct (although it's probably more accurate to refer to the state as the slave of Christianity).

              Anyway, the greater restraint in using violence to fight perceived blasphemy and insults is one of the good things about Christians.

              Oh, that restraint is good, but it's a fairly new thing for Christians and Christianity.

              1. Suicidy   10 years ago

                Define 'fairly new'.

        4. Uncle Joe   10 years ago

          Well, hardly ever.

        5. Bodica Slayer of Drones   10 years ago

          Except Missourians. They hate Mormons so much they issued an extermination order.

    4. bacon-magic   10 years ago

      This article right here is why I'm drawn to Reason like a moth to the flame. No one else seems to get it as well as they do. The main stream media(propagandist all of 'em) is to chicken shit to post this, not to mention how anti-1st amendment they are.

      1. Greg Gutfelt's Nutpunch   10 years ago

        I like how you make mainstream two words (main stream). It's like you are implying a golden shower.

        1. bacon-magic   10 years ago

          Thanks Greg. I am. That is what it feels like every time they spew their drivel.

          1. Zeb   10 years ago

            That is what it feels like every time they spew their drivel.

            That leaves it a bit ambiguous. I can only imagine the physical sensation of a golden shower is rather pleasant. Knowing what is actually going on might be less pleasant. Unless you are into that sort of thing.

        2. Suicidy   10 years ago

          It's better than a mandate.

        3. Bodica Slayer of Drones   10 years ago

          That is Maine Stream, you doofus.

      2. ConstitutionFirst   10 years ago

        I like the term Government Media Complex.
        While it doesn't flow off the tongue like LSM, it is far more descriptive.

      3. freedomlover   10 years ago

        and anti-2nd amendment.

        They are so bad, as you say, that even when I read an editorial with which I wholeheartedly agree, as I did in my local rag this morning, I find it distasteful.

        That might be because they write with an arrogance that defiles even their best arguments in support of their own opinion. They write as though they know everything and therefore we should do what they say. They preach. They believe.

        Top men is the phrase that often used here. Top men all of them.

        But, I've never met a journalist that I thought had the intelligence of a gnat. Except for those here at Reason perhaps. And a couple who have written for the WSJ of all things, in the past.

    5. erissa   10 years ago

      I make up to $90 an hour working from my home. My story is that I quit working at Walmart to work online and with a little effort I easily bring in around $40h to $86h? Someone was good to me by sharing this link with me, so now i am hoping i could help someone else out there by sharing this link... Try it, you won't regret it!......
      http://www.work-cash.com

      1. plusafdotcom   10 years ago

        Ah, Altruism, is it? Your reason for 'helping others'? You don't know what we do to Altruists here, do you?

        http://www.plusaf.com/linkedin.....t-soup.jpg

    6. bacon-magic   10 years ago

      Rukmini needs to go back to making sammiches. What a dumb ass.

    7. Bodica Slayer of Drones   10 years ago

      They don't like the victims.

  2. straffinrun   10 years ago

    Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"?

    Other than their stated goal, why would someone do this?

    1. BigT   10 years ago

      To develop the definitive portrait of Mohammed?

    2. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

      To illustrate an illiterate goat-fucking child molester?

      1. UnCivilServant   10 years ago

        I don't think he was actually illiterate.

        1. Res ipsa loquitur   10 years ago

          Draw a picture to illustrate your position please.

          1. UnCivilServant   10 years ago

            o<-< o<-<
            o<-< o<-<
            o<-< o<-<
            o<-<

            Okay they were supposed to be scattered more, but nbsps and regular spaces keep getting eaten by the comment parser.

            1. hamilton   10 years ago

              [squints]

              Eh, close enough for government jihadist work. Say goodbye to your ankles, blasphemer!

        2. Zeb   10 years ago

          If you take Mohammad to be whoever it was that wrote the Koran, he really can't be illiterate, can he?

          1. PACW   10 years ago

            If I understand correctly, that is part of the mythos. An illiterate goat herder couldn't possibly have come up with this on his own. . . . . obviously he was a conduit for Allah. Your mileage may vary.

            1. Bodica Slayer of Drones   10 years ago

              Sounds like a South Park episode

              1. freedomlover   10 years ago

                Or, Christianity, Judaism and a host of others.

          2. GILMORE   10 years ago

            Wikipedia

            "According to the traditional narrative, several companions of Muhammad served as scribes and were responsible for writing down the revelations.[10] Shortly after Muhammad's death, the Quran was compiled by his companions who wrote down and memorized parts of it.[11] "

            the typical history of 'sacred texts' is that they are in actuality 'pastiche jobs' that compile the story-telling/passed-down sayings of multiple people involved in a religious movement, but over time it is passed off as a single work by a single person and given a narrower focus as the formalization of the religion takes place.

            IOW, they 'evolve' to become a sacred-text. Typically for the purpose of reconciling slightly different opinions between interest groups in the early years of religion. Its also notable that a lot of the Koran re-hashes a lot of the same stuff covered in the other Abrahamic religions, so its really just like "v3.0" of the Bible and Torah in many ways.

            Or maybe more like "Children of Son of Dune, Revisited: Die Harder Electric Boogaloo"

            1. freedomlover   10 years ago

              The Ark of the Covenant!

    3. Slammer   10 years ago

      You know who else acted provocatively to get a reaction?

      1. UnCivilServant   10 years ago

        Lady Godiva?

      2. Charles Easterly   10 years ago

        "You know who else acted provocatively to get a reaction?"

        My girl-buddy a few years ago: She wore a tight fitting shirt with the Message "It doesn't get licked by itself." to an outdoor concert.

        She got the reaction she wanted.

        1. JW   10 years ago

          Lots of people licking her face?

          1. Restoras, OWG   10 years ago

            No, obviously it was the shirt that needed licking. Or maybe just the word "it" on the shirt?

      3. Tonio   10 years ago

        Grace Whitney?

        1. Animal   10 years ago

          Grace Jones?

      4. SimonJester   10 years ago

        Your sister?

      5. DesigNate   10 years ago

        Lady Gaga?

        1. freedomlover   10 years ago

          Madonna taught them all they know.

    4. Tejicano   10 years ago

      Starting their statement with "free speech aside..." Proves they want to ignore the point being made. It Is kinda like saying "other than to cross the river why would anybody build a bridge?"

      1. EV   10 years ago

        Because of shiny government handouts.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravina_Island_Bridge

    5. Bodica Slayer of Drones   10 years ago

      Why not?

  3. Drake   10 years ago

    Nelson laugh for the dead losers.

    1. Monty Crisco   10 years ago

      How do you take a shot at a dude who isn't expecting it and WOUND HIS FUCKING ANKLE?!?!? Had they never even practiced before their anticipated massacre?

      1. Brian D   10 years ago

        Maybe the guard tried to deflect the bullet with a roundhouse kick. It did happen in Texas, after all.

        1. Monty Crisco   10 years ago

          Good point. Hadn't thought of that. Way to go, security guard!! Look forward to your upcoming cameo on "Walker, Texas Ranger"!

      2. WTF   10 years ago

        Why aim? Just spray and pray and the bullets will hit the mark if Allah wills it.

        1. Swiss Servator, Switzier!   10 years ago

          1. Level weapon toward mine enemies

          2. Hold trigger down until magazine is empty

          3. Insh'allah my enemy will fall.

      3. Heedless   10 years ago

        Only Imperial Stormtroopers and NYC cops could be that accurate.

      4. Tejicano   10 years ago

        Most probably a riccochet off the ground (still poor shooting mind you). Rounds tend to travel close to the ground when they strike a horizontal surface.

        1. freedomlover   10 years ago

          Finally. Somebody who understands physics/ballistics when speaking about firearms.

      5. WuzYoungOnceToo   10 years ago

        - "How do you take a shot at a dude who isn't expecting it and WOUND HIS FUCKING ANKLE?!?!? Had they never even practiced before their anticipated massacre?"

        AK-47s. 'Nuff said.

  4. Brian D   10 years ago

    Roe vs. Wade aside, why would anyone build something as provocative as an abortion clinic?

    1. A Horse Called Trigger   10 years ago

      Freedom of Association aside, why would anyone build something as provocative as a bakery shop?

    2. Libertarian   10 years ago

      This reporter's question needs to become a meme!!!!

      "Free speech aside, why would anyone need the First Amendment?"

      "Free speech aside, why not just shut up so that no one gets upset?"

      1. Rich   10 years ago

        "Free speech aside, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"

        "Free speech Assad, what ever happened to Syria?"

        1. aitchbar1   10 years ago

          +1

      2. wadair   10 years ago

        How about just Question Begging? The real question seems to be: "why would anyone want free speech?"

        1. Win Bear   10 years ago

          Well, free speech is important for government-recognized media professionals, so that they can spread the party line. That's the way it works in Europe anyway.

  5. Steve G   10 years ago

    dig in its heels and say here we stand, we will do no other

    Jean Luc Picard said it better.

    1. Monty Crisco   10 years ago

      So put the link up, dude....

      1. DaveSs   10 years ago

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms_WY0s_1XM

        1. Monty Crisco   10 years ago

          Thas wut Im talkin bout!

          1. Restoras, OWG   10 years ago

            So who will be our Jean-Luc?

            1. Eggs Benedict Cumberbund   10 years ago

              Q was the libertarian on that show.

              1. DaveSs   10 years ago

                Not even close

                His first act when contacting humans was to kidnap the bridge crew and put them on trial in a court where guilt was predetermined.

                1. Win Bear   10 years ago

                  I think he was making a point, not actually putting them on trial.

                2. Eggs Benedict Cumberbund   10 years ago

                  He constantly questioned the Federations motives, made them confront the Borg something they to which they couldn't apply their Prog based diplomacy,etc.

                  Q was the only libertarian on the show.

                  1. Suicidy   10 years ago

                    Which helped them avoid a path where they would otherwise be assimilated by the Borg. As was later revealed on 'Voyager'.

      2. Adans smith   10 years ago

        the Federation and Picard were commies,I hate Star Trek.

        1. UnCivilServant   10 years ago

          "If you don't need money, then you certainly don't need mine," - Nog

        2. Restoras, OWG   10 years ago

          Well, conveniently in Star Trek when you can convert energy to matter and have an unlimited supply of energy thus eliminating scarcity...except for Romulan Ale, apparently.

          1. Adans smith   10 years ago

            and no jobs work,no Giant Eagle,steak Houses ,malls,ect.Just hang out in the Holo deck..The only jobs are government.

            1. Zeb   10 years ago

              They didn't really make it clear how things worked outside of Star Fleet, did they?

          2. KDN   10 years ago

            And blood wine. I don't think they've figured out a way to replicate vintage 2309.

        3. Win Bear   10 years ago

          Star Trek was all over the place, with people making all sorts of choices. Federation citizens weren't prohibited from making money. I think it was more similar to the US, with a large government sector, a big social safety net, but also lots of liberty.

        4. Suicidy   10 years ago

          The Ferengi were pretty awesome though. They made DS9 so much more enjoyable.

        5. WuzYoungOnceToo   10 years ago

          Horse pucky. The Federation was full of capitalists. Cyrano Jones, Harry Mudd...the various Enterprises constantly responding to distress calls by merchant vessels, etc.

      3. Steve G   10 years ago

        meh, blockquote was about all I could muster this AM...

  6. Adans smith   10 years ago

    You don't need to 'slander' the' prophet',hell just read the history of his life.He was a horrible person..

    1. Drake   10 years ago

      You are slandering The Prophet by misunderstanding his rape, pedophilia, adultery, slaving, murdering, and thieving. He did those things for you out of love.

      1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

        You forgot bestiality.

        1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

          Moslems are not allowed to eat any animal that thy fucked.

          1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

            IT'S STRANGE THAT THEY ACTUALLY NEED A LAW LIKE THAT.

        2. Eggs Benedict Cumberbund   10 years ago

          I'm thinking a historical fiction re-enactment play along the lines of Catherine the Great but with Mohammed and a giant Pig?

          1. BigT   10 years ago

            The Book of Mormon Muslim

          2. Suicidy   10 years ago

            Maybe the pig could pork Muhammed?

          3. Suicidy   10 years ago

            Maybe the pig could pork Muhammed?

    2. Zeb   10 years ago

      If he even existed. There isn't much about Mohammed that is contemporary to his life. I just assume that, much like Jesus in the Bible, he is a mostly fictional character, probably loosely based on a historical figure.

  7. Mr. Anderson   10 years ago

    They drew a picture of Mohommad, that violates the NAP, do they had it coming v

  8. The Bad Captain Madly   10 years ago

    There's only one thing to be done - open the borders!

    1. Drake   10 years ago

      We are down a couple of crazy Muslims now - so sure!

    2. MJBinAL   10 years ago

      Ummm, suuurrrrrre,

      And this demonstrated one of the problems with the ideal of open borders. Along with importing diseases old and new of course.

      The truth is, we have an opportunity to have a generally libertarian society only WITH controlled borders. People do not all come here to enjoy liberty, some come here only for economic opportunity, some because they are persecuted minorities where they are and may be as intolerant as those that persecute them, and some come for the purpose of hurting us.

      Open Borders are guaranteed to kill the libertarian dream under a flood of people trained in socialism and continually introduce diseases we try to control or eliminate by re-introduction from the outside.

      It is always to be hoped that we will achieve a more libertarian society and spread it to others by good example. But first we have the achieve it. As a group we do not think tactically very well I am afraid.

      1. JW   10 years ago

        Gosh, thanks for reminding us that rights and liberty are a utilitarian circle jerk.

        Everyone knows the only good rights are the ones with an outcome-based test.

        1. kbolino   10 years ago

          A controlled border is the type of thing that screams "it's an emergency and we don't know what to do", like imposing a curfew or issuing an evacuation order. This is appeasement; "if we just give the statists most of what they want, they'll leave us alone to carve out a little bit of a quasi-libertarian society". Except of course that they won't, since they'll tax you, imprison you, and when they feel like it, storm your home and shoot you and your dogs.

          It is ironic that people choose this particular example to hoist the "secure the border" flag. The real aggressors here are the violent Muslims, just like the real aggressor with regard to immigration is largely the government. Who promises people favors extracted from your pocket in return for their votes?

          1. kbolino   10 years ago

            Fucking threading.

      2. Win Bear   10 years ago

        The truth is, we have an opportunity to have a generally libertarian society only WITH controlled borders.

        You have a wrong conception of a "libertarian society". You seem to think that it is a society in which people come into the country and then do what they please in a society that otherwise looks like our own, with public roads and tons of public infrastructure. In a truly "libertarian society", the notion of "controlled borders" becomes pretty much irrelevant because what matters is who the private owners of roads, subdivisions, shopping centers, etc. choose to associate with. So, nominally, a declared fanatical Muslim might cross the border, but he would get turned away at the next private highway entrance.

        In a truly libertarian society, citizenship would be replaced by a set of certifications, bonds, and insurance policies. Private property owners (usually, large associations of individuals) would set conditions for what certifications, bonds, and insurance policies you need in order to enter their property. The result would be a more rational, and likely more selective, system of controls that function like current immigration restrictions, but are not subject to lobbying and rent seeking.

      3. Zeb   10 years ago

        You can't control the borders sufficiently without a giant police state which will also definitely kill any libertarian dream. Native born Americans are a much bigger threat to any kind of libertarian dream than immigrants. Immigrants come here to work. Americans think they are entitled to free shit at other people's expense.

        1. XM   10 years ago

          "Immigrants come here to work."

          There are lots of immigrants who come here to crash 4 years at colleges or their cousin's house. And to collect welfare too.

          Immigrants are VASTLY more pro - big government than native born Americans. Most of the 6% that voted for Sarvis are almost assuredly white.

    3. BardMetal   10 years ago

      Perhaps Cytotoxic will be around soon to explain why we should blow up as many muslims as possible overseas, but also let as many as possible immigrate into the United States.

    4. kbolino   10 years ago

      There's only one thing to be done - open the borders!

      This is Bo-level trolling. It happens a lot, and the names change from time to time, but it has the intellectual heft of a giant shit.

      1. Careless   10 years ago

        "I disagree with this for fundamental reasons, but I've got no way to reason against it, so I'll point and sputter"

        1. kbolino   10 years ago

          There was no argument to begin with.

          1. Libertarius   10 years ago

            He doesn't need one. Your open borders dogma is self-evident lunacy.

            1. Zeb   10 years ago

              Another marvelous non-argument.

              The US was a fuckload more libertarian when we did have pretty much open borders. You people are utterly full of shit.
              We have fairly tightly controlled borders now. Yet you talk as if we just let anyone in who wants in. Do you have any idea how hard it is for a poor person to get a visa? I will bet you a bunch of money that if the gunmen were immigrants they came legally. And very few people coming illegally are coming from overseas.
              The southern border can't be closed completely. It's thousands of miles of fucking desert. The only way to keep people from coming in is to implement a huge police state and require everyone to carry identification documents that must be presented on demand. That is not a recipe for a free society. Just a different flavor of fascism.

              1. Thomas O.   10 years ago

                Fucking walls and fences, how do they work?

                We can have secure borders without a police state. I'm all for foreigners coming here to make some cash, and I would love to have the immigration process streamlined so that nobody has to wait years on end to become a citizen. I just want to keep the dirty bombs and problematic diseases out of the US.

              2. XM   10 years ago

                "And very few people coming illegally are coming from overseas."

                Huh?

                It's not fascist for a nation to have regulated borders. Most counties don't have illegal immigrant problem (and possible terrorist threat among them, even slight) of our scale because no one goes there. And they don't guarantee anything to non citizens.

                Sure, it might be hard to get visas. But its incrementally getting easier to obtain work visas. Edison cleaned house to hire foreign workers and that got the attention of democrats.

                If you can get here somehow, then you can exist here for years without fear of deportation. A chunk of illegals overstayed their visas. America affords unprecedented level of ,privilege, protection and privacy to immigrants of any kind.

                We have like ten times the immigrant population of Canada, where healthcare is free and immigration is supposedly "humane".

            2. kbolino   10 years ago

              Your open borders dogma is self-evident lunacy.

              Is this a troll-a-thon?

  9. hamilton   10 years ago

    The president was wrong then and those who say we must rein in free speech are wrong now.

    God. Damn. Right.

    That is all.

  10. Almanian!   10 years ago

    RELEASE THE KRAKEN!

    1. straffinrun   10 years ago

      I gotta do everything

    2. AlexInCT   10 years ago

      That's what my girlfriend tells me when she feel sfrisky....

      1. freedomlover   10 years ago

        You wish.

  11. Rich   10 years ago

    The attackers drove up and opened fire on the security guard as the event was finishing up about 7 p.m. (8 p.m. ET), said Joe Harn, a spokesman for the Garland police.

    Know what would have been *really* "provocative"?

    If the spokesman had been named "Mo Ham".

  12. Warty   10 years ago

    This picture was apparently taken just before the shooting. Sounds like these people got what they wanted.

    As for the hand-wringers wringing their hands about how racist this...hosting a "fuck your false religion" contest isn't particularly good manners, but neither is, you know, attempted murder.

    1. UnCivilServant   10 years ago

      As for the hand-wringers wringing their hands about how racist this...hosting a "fuck your false religion" contest isn't particularly good manners, but neither is, you know, attempted murder

      Tell me, is there another faith in the world where a contest of mockery would predictably lead to violence? Most of them shrug off slander with much more aplumb (and there has not been a single faith that has not been slandered, or is not still facing it)

      1. Rich   10 years ago

        is there another faith in the world where a contest of mockery would predictably lead to violence?

        Progressivism?

        1. Brian D   10 years ago

          You intolerant people need to be more tolerant of the intolerant beliefs that lead muslims into attacking intolerant bigots! Now, Progressives don't tolerate intolerance unless it's intolerance of the intolerant. Fortunately, intolerance of intolerance isn't true intolerance.

        2. Charles Easterly   10 years ago

          Nice, Rich.

      2. Warty   10 years ago

        That's what cracks me up about this. If you read the comments in this DB article, you'll learn that apparently the organizers bear the sole responsibility for violence. Not, you know, the people who did the violence.

        Uncle Frank 7 minutes ago
        The promoters of this event succeeded in their goal. To instigate a violent reaction. Now they can brag "See, Islam is a violent religion. We just proved it so."

        It's a bizarre reaction. Do they just not see brown people as full humans with moral agency? It's like they think, of course the Muslims were violent, the right-wingers made them be violent. What else could they be? They're brown people. It's a truly sickening attitude and it gets more so the more I think about it.

        1. Azathoth!!   10 years ago

          Do they just not see brown people as full humans with moral agency? It's like they think, of course the Muslims were violent, the right-wingers made them be violent. What else could they be? They're brown people.

          Why 'brown people'? Islam is not a race.

        2. Septawn   10 years ago

          That comment section is greatest argument for secession ever articulated.

      3. Steve G   10 years ago

        +1 Touch an Alter Boy Inappropriately Day

        1. UnCivilServant   10 years ago

          Reinstating clerical marriage would help the church fix that problem by not making the post one that only appeals to those with... 'issues'.

          1. Tonio   10 years ago

            They'd have to do away with confession. Because you know that people come home and bitch about work.

      4. A Horse Called Trigger   10 years ago

        +1 Magic Underwear.

      5. Win Bear   10 years ago

        Tell me, is there another faith in the world where a contest of mockery would predictably lead to violence?

        Pretty much all of them, depending on which period in history you look at. Christians used to get vicious and murderous when people as much as chose not to be part of it, let alone mocked or blasphemed it. Blasphemy against Christianity used to be against the law in large parts of the West.

        1. OneOut   10 years ago

          I suppose it depends upon what the definition of "is" is in the question.

          1. Win Bear   10 years ago

            Or it depends on your definition of "Christians". Most people who call themselves "Christians" today are deistic humanists; a smaller minority are social conservatives with sexual problems. That's quite different from the fervent Bible followers and colonialists of only a few centuries ago.

    2. Suicidy   10 years ago

      At least the right people died for once.

  13. Rich   10 years ago

    Officers at the heavily-policed event returned fire, killing the men.

    ""Draw, Mohammed!"

    1. UnCivilServant   10 years ago

      +1 Co-Worker distracting laughter.

    2. Tonio   10 years ago

      Good one, Rich.

  14. Rich   10 years ago

    At a "Draw Mohammed" contest held yesterday in Garland, Texas, two gunmen who opened fire on the crowd were killed

    Apparently the gunmen thought performance art was also permitted in the contest.

    1. AlexInCT   10 years ago

      Where was their mattress?

      1. Slammer   10 years ago

        Nice.

        1. Charles Easterly   10 years ago

          Rich is on a good roll this morning.

          1. Rich   10 years ago

            It must be the Monster Energy Drink.

      2. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

        On their stomachs because they like ass-sex, without the pot and Mexicans.

        1. Poppa Kilo   10 years ago

          What good is it without pot and Mexicans?

          That's like a fish without a feminist.

  15. Fist of Etiquette   10 years ago

    Is anyone else concerned that Pamela Geller and Geert Wilders are practically anagrams of each other?

    1. MJBinAL   10 years ago

      no

    2. Libertarian   10 years ago

      I am now.

    3. hamilton   10 years ago

      Quiet, Fete of Tits.

      1. Fist of Etiquette   10 years ago

        THERE'S NO COMMA IN MY NAME. Where'd that come from?

        1. Cdr Lytton   10 years ago

          The Archangel Gabriel brought it from Allah.

          1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

            I think it was really Moroni.

            1. MSimon   10 years ago

              Boney?

  16. Enjoy Every Sandwich   10 years ago

    Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"? making a picture of a crucifix in a jar full of urine?

    1. BardMetal   10 years ago

      Either all religions are fair game or none of them are. If we make an exception for one religion because it's violent then all we are doing is saying violence works. By giving into terrorism we are supporting it, we are making it work.

      The fact that these assholes are so prone to violence is exactly why we should be mocking them.

      1. Libertarius   10 years ago

        ...it's why we should be killing them. FTFY.

      2. Suicidy   10 years ago

        That will never work for the progtards. Can't wait to see how the Botarded one and Tony perform their retiredly retarded mental gymnastics to explain how it's ok to have 'Piss Christ', but not a 'Draw Muhammed' contest.

      3. freedomlover   10 years ago

        Guess you don't fly much. We've already given in. We made it work for them.

        You know, they really don't want to kill us. They want to kill our way of life; our freedom as it may be.

  17. Libertarian   10 years ago

    "...why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"?

    Would this reporter have asked, "Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as drawing Muhammad?" the same day as the Hedbo massacre? If not, why not?

    1. Heedless   10 years ago

      Because she's an asshole, but she is not 100% a dick.

    2. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

      I drew Mohamed as an insane, retarded, illiterate sheep fucking child molesting murderer because that is what he was. Fuck all you Moslem assholes.

      1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

        I wipe my ass with pages from the Koran every day. I'm thinking of starting a business selling Koran-printed toilet paper.

        1. gaoxiaen   10 years ago

          Maybe even Koran-printed tampons.

          1. SQRLSY One   10 years ago

            Where do I buy them?

            Score for latest round:
            Civilized Folks Goatfuckers
            2 0

        2. Win Bear   10 years ago

          Just don't do that in Germany; it makes you a felon there. Probably same in France and the UK:

          http://tinyurl.com/mbsgmud

          The early retirees had toilet paper stamped with the phrase "Koran, the Holy Quran" and then distributed to several TV stations as well as 22 mosques and Islamic cultural associations. The sentence was to be regarded by the Mohammed cartoons in the context of the current political debate, said Judge Carsten Krumm from the Amtsgericht L?dinghausen (Nordrhein-Westfalen). "The meaning has been significantly enhanced by the global political situation."

          The sentence for abuse of confessions and of disturbing the public peace has been suspended for five years on probation. In addition, the account of other offenses repeatedly convicted man must do 300 hours of community service. Judge Krumm spoke of a "significant blindness" in which 61-year-olds.
          The Islamic Republic of Iran had approached prior to the process in an official note to the Foreign Ministry in Berlin and sharp protest against the denigration of the Koran. Even the chief prosecutor stressed the sentencing was a "clear signal has been set out." The judgment is final.

          As a reason for his action of 61-year-old stated that he had responded to the terrorist attacks by Islamists in London in 2005 and the murder of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh in November 2004. He wanted to fund a memorial for victims of Islamist terror, he said in court.

      2. Suicidy   10 years ago

        I think you meant to say 'insane, retarded, illiterate child fucking sheep molesting murderer'.

  18. Slammer   10 years ago

    "...why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"?

    Free speech aside, why don't you please shut the fuck up?

  19. JW   10 years ago

    Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"?

    Maybe it's a test for you epistemological savages.

    Try not banging rocks together in your head long enough, to join the rest of us in the modern world.

    1. Free Society   10 years ago

      Maybe it's a test for you epistemological savages.

      Epistemology, is that like the study of intersectional gender specific fairness? /Prog

  20. eyeroller   10 years ago

    Hey, I hear one of these guys had a grandfather from Morocco. Yahoo! Time to start drone bombing!

  21. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

    I presume that we'll soon be seeing the "Je Suis Pam" and "Je Suis Geert" Twitter accounts, picket signs, T-shirts, etc.

    If not, are we to presume that those two are more declasse than Charlie Hebdo?

    1. Libertarian   10 years ago

      Well, number one, they're not French. So yes.

  22. Mr. Anderson   10 years ago

    Don't worry guys, the SPLC said the Mohommad drawing group is a hate group so they had it coming.

    1. The Grinch   10 years ago

      I was listening to NPR on the way into work and they led off with the SPLC/hate group bullshit. It seems they had to telegraph to their listeners that "those hateful bastards had it coming."

      1. MSimon   10 years ago

        And they got it too. Dead and buried.

  23. Free Society   10 years ago

    Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"?

    Because the people being provoked have sensitive little feelings that are in dire need of desensitizing.

    1. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

      Let them sooth their hurt feelings in the arms of the houris.

      Or demons, as the case may be.

    2. freedomlover   10 years ago

      I deal with that every day. Working with minorities and women. Protected class employees have taken it to the limit. Exclaiming "Oh boy" after seeing a mess left on the floor had me up on racial charges one day.

  24. Mongo   10 years ago

    I really think we - the West - should emphasize that it not really blasphemous to depict Mohammed (PBnJ). There have been many depictions of him throughout history by and for Muslims.

    1. Free Society   10 years ago

      We're not really in a position to tell Muslims what is and what is not blasphemous. But luckily one man's blasphemy is another man's don't give a fuck. What we as westerner's are in a position to do is criticize the lack of civility that abounds in Islamic societies and drawing Muhammed is one way to do that. If Muslims by and large don't become disgusted every time they hear of another Muslim killing or rioting because someone drew a picture, then Muslims by and large aren't worth the calories they consume and we'll know who the enemies are.

      1. Mongo   10 years ago

        I agree.

        Western Muslims should step up and be a bigger part in getting their brethren to modernize.

      2. Win Bear   10 years ago

        Realistically, if we want Muslim fundamentalists to stop killing, we do have to get them to change their views on what is blasphemous. We shouldn't have to, but in practice, it's the only way. That's also how civil society stopped Christianity from murdering people, and make no mistake, Christians were far worse than Muslims are today.

        1. Suicidy   10 years ago

          Uh....what?

          1. Win Bear   10 years ago

            Well, just for starters:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War

            Also, this was almost all tithing Christians killing non-Christians:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

      3. bacon-magic   10 years ago

        +72 VIRGINS for you sir.

    2. Derp-o-Matic 5000   10 years ago

      Like when he and the other Superbestfriends saved America from the Blaintologists

    3. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

      Most of the Muslim depictions I've seen come from Persia, a traditionally artsy place.

      1. The Grinch   10 years ago

        The Shia seem to ne a bit more open to it.

        1. Suicidy   10 years ago

          No more Shia! He sucked in Transformers. Also, he was a key contributor to the abortion that was Indy 4. I say exterminate the Shia.

  25. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

    Free speech aside, why is the New York Times Company, a *corporation,* allowed to exercise First Amendment rights?

    1. rudehost   10 years ago

      A point I have raised every time a proggie raises the corporations aren't people argument. It generally results in crickets. They don't seem to get that the first amendment is a restriction on congresses power not a declaration that corporations are people but then again all they have is the talking points huffpo gave them. Anything beyond that confuses them.

      1. The Grinch   10 years ago

        I've heard the argument being made (I ferociously disagree with it) that freedom of the press is specifically spelled out because that's the only corporation the founders wanted to have free speech rights.

        1. rudehost   10 years ago

          Of course that is complete and utter nonsense. Speech is spelled out too. I assume you are referencing "the" in the article but "the press" was a physical thing in 1790. The notion that it was meant to apply to corporations is absurd primarily because the modern corporation didn't exist in 1790. Basically they just want their corporations to be able to say what they want while silencing everyone else. Yes this is a trend.

        2. rudehost   10 years ago

          As a side note I would ask them what corporate newspaper existed in 1789 that the bill of rights was trying to protect. They probably haven't learned their response to that yet.

  26. rudehost   10 years ago

    Possibly the coolest news I will read today. May they be raped for eternity by 72 well endowed virgins. The story really should have ended "And they live happily ever after"

    1. Derp-o-Matic 5000   10 years ago

      "And there was much rejoicing"

    2. Loki   10 years ago

      May they be raped for eternity by 72 well endowed virgins.

      Well, they never said the virgins were going to be female virgins did they? In all likelyhood it is 72 other pissed off blue-balled dudes just like them.

      And who wants 72 vigins anyway? Wouldn't 72 sluts who know what they're doing be better?

      1. Win Bear   10 years ago

        Here's the training video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuEK9gSUbWw

      2. Suicidy   10 years ago

        In Saudi Arabia, young unmarried men are unofficially encouraged to fuck other men to cast out their lustful demons. As opposed to defiling a woman outside of marriage. Saw this a lot in their Army during Desert Storm.

        Sick Islamic faggoty fucks.

  27. Jerryskids   10 years ago

    why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"?
    .
    Let me punch you in the mouth and ask you why would anybody do something as provocative as asking why would anybody do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammed drawing contest?". The question isn't why someone would do it, the question is why aren't you doing it?

  28. Derp-o-Matic 5000   10 years ago

    Fuck those cowfucking shitwads. More groups should hold contests like that.

    🙂

    1. Derp-o-Matic 5000   10 years ago

      ***The end of my comment seems to have cut off. That smiley is my picture of Mohammed

      1. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

        That is Mohammed's dick.

        1. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

          Hey, what happened to the

          1. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

            Well, that version works. I was trying to use the greater-than symbol to indicate a small penis. But as it is, my basic point was made.

            1. OldMexican   10 years ago

              You can't use the greater-than symbol to depict penises. That's against HTML policy. You can, however, use the lower-case c, like so: c====8

              1. psCargile   10 years ago

                But with less equal signs.

              2. Thomas O.   10 years ago

                I usually do it like &=====3

                1. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

                  c8

    2. Suicidy   10 years ago

      For those who get the reference, I say 'M Day' should actually have been 'No more muslims'.

  29. DKCMOM1   10 years ago

    It's well known that too many followers of Islam feel it's acceptable to inflict violence on someone who draws a CARTOON. What worries me beyond anything else, is how casually people say "well they should have expected it". When did people start to accept this shackle, this restriction? And we all know that if an Christian kills an abortion provider, not one of them would say "pfft, he should have known Christians tend to believe abortion kills babies".

    1. Tonio   10 years ago

      What's the definition of fanatic, again? Oh, yeah, someone so obsessed with their particular issue that they have to bring it up in every conversation, even ones totally unrelated to the subject at hand.

      1. Restoras, OWG   10 years ago

        Hey, have you ever tried CrossFit?

        1. Thomas O.   10 years ago

          I heard Jesus wasn't a big fan of that.

  30. ElDuderino   10 years ago

    I wish I had enough drawing skills to illustrate the following:

    Mohammad, bent over and getting fucked in the ass by Jesus while blowing a very fat buddah.

    the Christians will be annoyed, but all they do is pray for people and hold signs n stuff. The Buddhists aren't likely to give a shit one way or another, but my guess is some small contingent of them will derive great pleasure from it as if it's some koan.

    1. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

      Why stick Jesus and Buddha in there at all? Why not just Mo and a goat?

    2. Loki   10 years ago

      Mohammad, bent over and getting fucked in the ass by Jesus and Moses while blowing a very fat buddah. And Vishnu is in the background giving hanies to 8 other Hindu gods.

      FTFY. If you're going to be offensive might as well include the Hindus and Jews as well, otherwise they might feel left out. And being "inclusive" is important.

      1. ZardozSpeaksToYou   10 years ago

        Ignoring Krshna is waaaaayyyycist!

    3. Suicidy   10 years ago

      I would prefer Porky Pig plowing his ass while he smokes Peter Porker The Spectacular Spider Ham's sausage. All while greased up in bacon fat and pig shit.

  31. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

    http://i1091.photobucket.com/a.....aisha1.jpg

    1. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

      NSFW, incidentally

  32. OldMexican   10 years ago

    "Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a 'Muhammad drawing contest'?"

    Regardless of the fact that people are free to do it, why are people free to do it, anyway?

    Little red Marxians can say the damnedest things!

  33. OldMexican   10 years ago

    It's not fully clear to me that there is an "aside" beyond "free speech,"

    C'mon, Nick. For Little Marxians, there's an aside to free speech, the right to freely assemble and possession of property. That is why they're authoritarian and totalitarian thieves.

  34. outcast   10 years ago

    Pretty damn effective counter-terrorism, IMHO -- it takes months, even years, for the FBI to ensnare would-be Islamic extremists - we should have "draw Mohammad" contests all over the country.

    1. Pope Tyrannicus XVI   10 years ago

      To be fair, I'm sure there are plenty of "secular" leftists who would have no problem killing you for disrupting their blind faith in inherent Muslim goodness.

      1. Eggs Benedict Cumberbund   10 years ago

        Yea but - generally - they don't have guns. Libertarians and conservatives have lots of guns.

        The Progs have the cops but not many cops are gonna side with the secular retards on this issue, so I'm thinking they won't do much killing over THIS issue.

        1. Pope Tyrannicus XVI   10 years ago

          They have one really big gun: the state. In 15 years, give or take, hate speech laws will make it illegal to "slander" select minority religions. If the NYPD has no moral compunctions shooting people for selling untaxed cigarettes, I see no reason why they would abstain from deadly force in enforcing hate speech laws. Hell, they imprisoned the guy who supposedly incited the Benghazi riots for a youtube video (why does no one talk about him anymore)?

          Never forget, the authority to legislate derives from the authority to kill.

          1. Michael Ejercito   10 years ago

            Hate speech laws violate the First Amendment. See e.g. Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969)

            1. Pope Tyrannicus XVI   10 years ago

              Yes and our lovely Democratic Senators are doing their best to remove such a pesky restriction. Just give them some time!

          2. Suicidy   10 years ago

            Or we could just wipe out the progressives before we let it get that bad.

    2. freedomlover   10 years ago

      Yes but, that would be entrapment...........vs ensnarement. And, you know that entrapment is against the law.

  35. Achmed   10 years ago

    Note the significantly different response to the actual Charlie Hebdo. Kind of why the Second Amendment comes right after the First.

  36. Otis B. Driftwood   10 years ago

    The goddamned victim-blaming on NPR is absolutely unprecedented....even for NPR!

    Cunt #1: "AFDI is a hate group. That explains it all. Too bad a guard was injured - in defense of a hate group."

    Cunt #2: "Those who hide behind the vale of free speech are disingenuous. Free speech should not include hate speech, especially for people who hold dearly the traditions of their religion."

    Cunt #3: "The Muslim-baiters got the reaction they were angling for. Sad that the security guard suffered for it."

    1. Derp-o-Matic 5000   10 years ago

      The security guard is a heroic defender of liberty in this case. The same cannot be said of the fucktards over at NPR.

  37. Ken Shultz   10 years ago

    Honestly?

    When Reason holds an "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day", it really is about free speech.

    http://reason.com/blog/2010/05.....ne-draw-mo

    When Pam Geller holds the same event? I'm not so sure free speech is really the central issue--especially not when Geert Wilders is the featured speaker.

    Geert Wilders is a Dutch politician who campaigns on banning the Koran in the Netherlands.

    http://www.geertwilders.nl/ind.....-the-koran

    I am absolutely in favor of free speech rights for anti-Muslim activists, but I think we should emphasize that these are anti-Muslim activists we're talking about--not free speech advocates.

    1. Derp-o-Matic 5000   10 years ago

      I disagree with you, sir. If people's lives are threatened for exercising free speech, I believe that the content of that speech is irrelevant. If someone is murdered for depicting the prophet Mohammed, it is essential that we reject the heckler's/murder's/terrorist's veto and depict the prophet Mohammed. It stops being about the content and becomes an issue of the act itself.

      I don't give two shits about Islam one way or the other, but if people are killed for drawing Mohammed, I present you the following. Behold my abstract rendition of getting fucked by a goat and enjoying it:

      8*8**884

      1. Ken Shultz   10 years ago

        "I disagree with you, sir. If people's lives are threatened for exercising free speech, I believe that the content of that speech is irrelevant."

        In terms of the law, it should be.

        In terms of free speech advocates, who we are, and what we care about, it isn't irrelevant at all.

        In the case of Geert Wilders, in particular, we're not talking about a free speech advocate at all. Geert Wilders is a politician who wants to ban the Koran. I gave you a link showing that he campaigns on banning the Koran.

        As a free speech advocate myself, I'm not going to stand around and let people think that these people are free speech advocates. They're not!

        I suspect Pam Geller might use the government to ban radical Islam if she could. Me? I happen to think that the First Amendment protects speech up to and including advocating for the violent overthrow of the U.S. government.

        Should anti-Muslim speech be protected by the First Amendment. Hell yeah!

        But I'm not about to stand around and pretend that these people are really all about free speech when they're not.

        Like I said, neo-Nazis should have their free speech protected, too--but just because their speech should be protected doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't point out how detestable neo-Nazis are.

        1. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

          By the same token, Charlie Hebdo, while supporting free speech for *itself,* showed no particular tolerance for Christians and Jews. Indeed, they seemed to endorse the moral-equivalence narrative by which all three of the major monotheistic religions must be bashed as if they're *all* equally evil - though notice that Jews and Christians didn't bomb their headquarters.

          Also, Geller has a Web site, so if in there she calls for censorship it would be mentioned - unless you think she's the kind of person to conceal her real views, which if she was, she wouldn't be risking her life publicizing her views.

          1. Ken Shultz   10 years ago

            I'll never get back what little time I've wasted reading Geller's scaremongering site.

            But my first Google search on her and censorship sent me to this quote:

            "Al Jazeera is planning to expand into the United States, and the chattering classes are treating it as a simple free speech matter. Let's not let the Islamic supremacists once again invoke the freedom of speech to kill our freedom of speech. The ruse of using freedom of speech to allow propaganda broadcasts over our airways is another stealth attack on the United States of America."

            ----Pamela Geller

            http://dailycaller.com/2011/03.....ed-states/

            She may be advocating free speech, but she ain't no free speech advocate.

    2. Derp-o-Matic 5000   10 years ago

      I am in favor of free speech rights. Full stop. Anything after the "but" is just derp.

      1. Thomas O.   10 years ago

        Same here. It's sad that there's too many people on BOTH sides that advocate the "you deserve to get your ass kicked for saying the wrong thing" belief. The ONLY acceptable reaction to offensive expression is a verbal rebuttal such as "shame on you" or "I respectfully disagree" or "fuck you". Swinging fist and nose and all that.

        1. Ken Shultz   10 years ago

          "Same here. It's sad that there's too many people on BOTH sides that advocate the "you deserve to get your ass kicked for saying the wrong thing" belief."

          If you think I said that here, you're delusional.

      2. Ken Shultz   10 years ago

        It isn't derp at all.

        When we stick up for the free speech rights of neo-Nazis, most people think we're sticking up for neo-Nazis.

        I hate neo-Nazis. I wish they'd all set themselves on fire, but I stick up for their free speech rights because those are my free speech rights, too. If I want my speech against neo-Nazis to be protected by law, then I need a law that will protect the speech of neo-Nazis, too.

        Being able to tell the difference between sticking up for free speech rights and sticking up for the sometimes detestable people who need their free speech rights protected is not obvious to most non-libertarians. And for all those people out there who can't tell the difference between sticking up for detestable people and sticking up for free speech rights, it's important that they understand...

        I can stand up for people's free speech rights even if I detest them.

        That isn't derp. That's what makes us libertarian, and an awful lot of the non-libertarians out there are non-libertarians because they can't make or don't understand that distinction.

        1. Pope Tyrannicus XVI   10 years ago

          Yes everyone has 1A rights regardless of the attractiveness of their views. But the moral equivalence liberals -- and sometimes libertarians -- draw between different kinds of speech can border on the absurd. Islam is a fundamentally repressive, anti-libertarian ideology on par with communism or fascism. While the adherents of such ideologies should be able to profess it freely, they should not be surprised when normal western people mock and condemn them.

          1. Ken Shultz   10 years ago

            "Islam is a fundamentally repressive, anti-libertarian ideology on par with communism or fascism. While the adherents of such ideologies should be able to profess it freely, they should not be surprised when normal western people mock and condemn them."

            And when Americans use invoke free speech as a justification for mocking other people's religious beliefs, it shouldn't be surprising to see libertarians run to the defense of the First Amendment...

            Again, there are an awful lot of people who can't tell the difference between 1) publicly advocating against something and 2) advocating using the coercive power of government to fight it. For most Americans, those two things are the same thing.

            It is our responsibility as libertarians to disabuse them of that stupid notion. Differentiating between those things is a libertarian characteristic--with the extinction of the honest liberal, libertarians may be the only people who can consistently make that distinction.

            Incidentally, we fought wars against fascism and communism. You don't think we should fight wars until there is no more Islam, do you? There's 1.5 billion of them out there in the world, and millions of them are American citizens by birth.

            1. Azathoth!!   10 years ago

              You don't think we should fight wars until there is no more Islam, do you?

              What do you think we're doing?

            2. Pope Tyrannicus XVI   10 years ago

              Don't be silly, of course I don't think "we" should fight wars against Islam or deprive Muslim citizens of their legal rights.

              I merely think that we should have the courage to call a spade a spade. In this case, denounce Islam as a harmful ideology just as we do for progressivism, communism, etc. We need to stop thinking of religion as some intrinsic characteristic of a person like race or sexual preference that is beyond the realm of acceptable criticism. Private discrimination against people of reprehensible religions ought to be perfectly socially acceptable in a free society.

          2. Suicidy   10 years ago

            And we have some carve outs to free speech. I for one want to put an end to Marxism once and for all. It is inherently treasonous, and should have little or no protection. Not stamping it out in the fifties has lead to the mess we are in now.

            1. freedomlover   10 years ago

              Then stamp it out with speech. Convincing speech. Not arms.

              The only reason to take up arms is in defense. Not to stamp out a failed philosophy of state power.

        2. Choadintheroad   10 years ago

          Yeah, but I think that you can't blame people who support freedom of speech or NOT for the acts of these lunatic individuals. I am in favor of the gunmen having full access to weapons, yet that doesn't mean I'm supporting what they do. I also think that this group did a good thing in terms of personal responsibility (something I value as a libertarian,) by hiring quality armed security. Whereas I can't feel that the Charlie Hebdo people let themselves down on the personal responsibility aspect due to them not hiring accurate security. N.B. I would have made the guns carried by the Hebdo killers made legal too, but I don't support them.

    3. Win Bear   10 years ago

      I am absolutely in favor of free speech rights for anti-Muslim activists, but I think we should emphasize that these are anti-Muslim activists we're talking about--not free speech advocates.

      It wouldn't matter if Wilders were a Nazi or a communist; free speech is essential for everybody. Yes, even Nazis and communists should have free speech, if not for any other reason, then simply so that other people can respond to them and express their disapproval.

    4. Azathoth!!   10 years ago

      Charlie Hebdo wasn't mocking Islam as a matter of free speech, Ken, they were mocking Islam because it's a disgusting repressive ideology that seeks to destroy all that is good in the world--if, that is, you believe that 'good' includes things that are outside the complete and total submission to the will of Allah.

      Pam Geller, ASDI, and Geert Wilders are doing the exact same thing

      Reason, sadly, was not.

      Pam Geller, ASDI, and Geert Wilders went on even as they were being shot at.

      Reason cut off comments why?----

      high, server-crushing volume of comments and the gratuitously insulting imagery of many of them?it seems that if there's one group of folks more obsessed with gay sex than Islamic terrorists, it's critics of the same?we've decided to shut down comments to this post.

      Because they were offensive? Really?

      con't

      1. Azathoth!!   10 years ago

        And then Reason kicks itself in the nuts--

        For those who wrongly equate this with censorship, please note that the Web, like the world itself, is wide and there are plenty of places you can go to post your comments about just about anything.

        Ah, so 'we can go somewhere else, somewhere besides the place where they claimed they were having an 'everybody draw Mohammad' contest because your submissions have become too offensive

        To who?

        Reason was jumping on this bandwagon for free speech, in the same manner as the woman who suggested the day.

        But it's not just about free speech. It's about defying the demands of a monstrous philosophy is making upon non-believers and about the cowardice of free speech advocates.

        If this be censorship, then kicking drunken party guests out of your living room at 6AM is ethnic cleansing. And the murder of Theo van Gogh simply another bad film review.

        No, Nick, this isn't censorship. It's cowardice.

        1. freedomlover   10 years ago

          Yes but, Reason owns the website and is free to control access, postings, etc.

          You can start your own, wide open website any time you choose.

  38. Hank Phillips   10 years ago

    Observe that nobody opens fire on peaceful Texans and lives to brag about it.
    HL Mencken has some good observations on Mohammedans in "Treatise on Right and Wrong"

    1. Ken Shultz   10 years ago

      Yeah, the guys who stormed this gathering really didn't think this thing through.

      I don't know what percentage of Texans carry, but whatever that percentage is, you can probably multiply that by some number when you're talking about patriotic Texans going to an anti-Muslim event.

      The article said they had a SWAT team in the back. Because Geert Wilders was the featured speaker, they probably disarmed all the civilians--since Geert Wilders has been marked for death and ISIS, apparently, called for some "martyrs" to storm this particular event. My guess is that they had the SWAT team there--especially--because they weren't going to let just anybody in carrying a gun. I bet they had a metal detector.

      Generally speaking, though, yeah, storming a bunch of patriotic Texans attending an anti-Muslim event is probably the next best thing to "suicide by cop".

      1. Mongo   10 years ago

        Those two art critics kind of wasted their lives for a non-event if you ax me.

        1. SQRLSY One   10 years ago

          A total waste of 2 perfectly good goat-fuckers indeed... I could've used 'em up, chopped 'em up, at my bait shop. I have many-many master-baiters in my customer base; they'd have loved their little pieces, to pieces! Chop-chop!
          (Put their little pieces between two slices of bacon, and the fish, especially catfish, can NOT resist, I am told!)

      2. Loki   10 years ago

        Geert Wilders has been marked for death and ISIS, apparently, called for some "martyrs" to storm this particular event.

        And they were only able to find two nimrods dumb enough to try it.

        Keep that in mind when Obummers or some other asshat demands that we give up even more of our freedoms because "ISIS followers are already here among us!!!11!!!1!!!" or some such horseshit. They put out a call for people to storm an even to kill Geert Wilders and only two of their idiot twitter followers were willing to try it. In Texas, which apparently has the 8th highest muslim population of any state.

        Like I said, something to keep in mind when some jackass tries to use this event as "proof" that ISIS is among us or something.

        1. Governor Squid   10 years ago

          I thought the art critics drove over from Phoenix. I may a crazy northerner, but I'm pretty sure Phoenix is not yet part of the Republic of Texas.

      3. GILMORE   10 years ago

        "NEW! DRAW-MOHOMMED-CONTEST/PIG ROAST BEING MOVED TO GARLAND'S PUBLIC FIRING RANGE, JUST EAST OF TOWN = DRESS CASUAL, RECOMMEND SHAVING"

        1. Suicidy   10 years ago

          Time to start playing 'Cowboys and Muslims'. Which does not auger well for the Muslims.

      4. Suicidy   10 years ago

        Back in '91, I was talking to a former schoolmate of mine who had relocated to Dallas. I asked him if he was concerned with rioting there after the Rodney King incident. He said "We're ready for that here, and if they do it will last about two minutes." And I suspect he was right.

        This event simply reinforces the old slogan "Don't mess with Texas".

    2. Suicidy   10 years ago

      Those moslems picked the wrong fucking state to pull their terrorist bullshit. Which is probably why the organizers held the event in Dallas in the first place. And the right people died. All in all, a good result.

      I look forward to seeing more moslem extremists exterminated like the vermin they are.

  39. Pope Tyrannicus XVI   10 years ago

    Lampooning Islam is not only a legitimate exercise of free speech, it is an eminently practical way of identifying savages for extermination. Nice to see SWAt teams finally put to good use.

  40. SQRLSY One   10 years ago

    "Not murdering people" (kinda cute but out-of-fashion idea, that) to the side, what's so bad about responding with REAL manly violence, when someone does verbal or pictorial violence to my honorable goat-fucking customs and traditions?!?!

  41. GILMORE   10 years ago

    "Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"?"

    Charlie Hebdo needs fresh talent?

  42. Pulseguy   10 years ago

    I understand the article, and I understand the point being made. I don't disagree with it.

    But....I wouldn't feel good if I had done this and 9 innocent people were killed. I would regret that action for the rest of my life. As it was, a guard was shot, and I think released from hospital quite quickly, and two bad guys were killed. So, essentially, no harm no foul. But, that is a big fluke.

    I suspect Geller doesn't care if someone dies.

    1. Notorious G.K.C.   10 years ago

      More blaming the victim.

    2. TallDave   10 years ago

      You suspect Geller doesn't care if Geller dies?

    3. OneOut   10 years ago

      Pulse guy no one made them show up to the contest.

      I suspect that some of my fellow armed Christian Texan's may have secretly hoped for such an event .

    4. Governor Squid   10 years ago

      I thought Geller wanted to save lives, by keeping Sharia out of the U.S. One would think that free-thinkers, gays, atheists, feminists, and the like would be applauding her efforts to keep them safe from a future where people throw rocks at their heads until they are dead.

    5. Uncle Joe   10 years ago

      Gee, let's suppose for a moment that those offended responded the way normal people do when the neo-Nazis put on a march? Show up with posters & call him names, don't show up with guns.

      You can consider Geller a provocative turd, but suggesting he should censor himself in order to protect the sensitivities of psychopaths is a pretty serious inversion of ethical morality.

  43. GILMORE   10 years ago

    ""Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"?""

    Because "contempt" is a natural and healthy reaction to bearded religious zealots who set people on fire for fun?

  44. GILMORE   10 years ago

    ""Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a "Muhammad drawing contest"?""

    Because some people want to live in the post-Enlightenment world, where words and pictures aren't magically "blasphemous"?

  45. adolphowisner   10 years ago

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  46. Mongo   10 years ago

    I used to see a fantastic, psychedelic illo of Muhammed riding his buraka (a magical beast) from Jerusalem up to Heaven on tha internet but I can't find it anymore.

  47. TxJack 112   10 years ago

    I have little doubt the reason this event was held in Texas is the organizers knew the loons would show up and they would be killed when they attempted to shoot innocent people. As a Texan, I have no problem with that mindset at all because we are at war. We are at war for the very survival of what this country was founded on, freedom. Freedom to do, think, and say whatever choose. The freedom to allow everyone to do the same even when we totally oppose everything they believe. The left screams about insulting Islam and makes phony comparisons to Christianity and Judaism, yet I have yet to read or hear a story about someone committing amass shooting in the name of either faith. The true point of this event is to make on thing very clear to anyone thinking about engaging in terrorism in Texas, try it and we will kill you where you stand...

    1. Calbeck   10 years ago

      So if the event had been held in Maine, the loons would have said "oh, okay, we'll leave that one alone"?

  48. TimothyLane   10 years ago

    "Free speech aside" is like the popular "I'm for free speech, but" of many liberals. At heart, they disapprove of the Bill of Rights when they don't like the people taking advantage of it. They think people should be free to think what liberals think, say what liberals say, and do what liberals do.

  49. ZardozSpeaksToYou   10 years ago

    OK, let's go all out, and put enemy combatants bodies on display, wrapped in bacon, in a vat of pig urine, and a little coin-operated doohickey that burns a Koran for $1.
    Call it the intersection of art, war, and capitalism.
    We could even put a little button on it that says "Are you a Muslim?" and if the customer presses "Yes", the Koran burning is free, but it sprays a bit of pig urine in the face of the customer. I figure that donations could replace the lost revenue from the Koran burning.
    I figure a Muslim rage boy in a Plexiglas cage with a mike/speaker setup should do quite nicely as a barker for my freak show..
    Sadly, bars are out, we don't want him foaming and salivating on our valued clientele.
    Now all I need are investors.

    1. Calbeck   10 years ago

      We already allow that sort of thing regarding art of other religions. What's your point? That Islam shouldn't be considered equal before the law and society?

      1. Calbeck   10 years ago

        Go ahead, test it: set up a little automatic thing where a Bible will be burned upon insertion of a dollar, and see what the difference in reaction is from burning a Koran.

  50. Uncle Joe   10 years ago

    This is a good instance where someone who is generally liberal like me can find common ground with libertarians. Unless there is an implicit threat of harm or intimidation to an actual person or place, let the public decide whether to applaud or shout down the authors of any words/drawing/ideas.

    We have the right to be offended, but anyone who needs to have the idea that the First Amendment doesn't mean crap when others don't have the right to be offensive, needs a refresher on the Constitution.

  51. Popsiq   10 years ago

    That the organizers anticipated that their 'occasion' might have been the cause of trouble in the 'land of the free etc' was reasonable. Hiring what appear to be the kind of 'security' one might expect to find in downtown Kabul was, in light of events, eminently sensible. (But obviously, any one of them 'going postal' for some reason, could have put a real damper ' on the shindig. More unreasonable things have happened involving guns.)

    Given the dearth of information about the prizewinners, best in show, 'people's choice' of drawing, the Awards, etc - even Geert Willders address to the artists - can we say the event might have failed to meet some expectations?

    1. Calbeck   10 years ago

      Actually, it's known that they paid for extra security because they were advised to do so by police. If they hadn't, you would of course now have people saying "they tried to set themselves up as martyrs"... oh wait, you seem to be suggesting that was rather the case anyways.

  52. Walticular   10 years ago

    This news has an odor about it. Smart readers will be waiting for subsequent shoes to drop before reaching any conclusions that lead to action.

  53. EndTheGOP   10 years ago

    Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have stumbled on a new strategy for ridding our country of "lone wolf" terrorists. We need to hold 'Draw Mohammed Contests" all over the country every week of the year -- thousands a year. All we need to do is place our SWAT teams in strategic places around the contests and let them pick off the terrorists as they arrive. This could be FUN FUN FUN!

    From what I hear, Mohammed is gay anyway.

    1. Suicidy   10 years ago

      Good. I can showcase my 'Faggot Muhammed' drawing in which Muhammed is depicted in a San Francisco bathhouse being gang fucked by many swishy looking men. Lubed up with bacon grease and appearing quite enthusiastic, of course.

      1. Calbeck   10 years ago

        We can put it in a museum alongside the cross suspended in urine.

        See how easy tolerance is? -:)

        1. Suicidy   10 years ago

          Hmmm........if the two of those things side by side get you off better, then so be it. Fap away, and in good health sir.

  54. Longtail   10 years ago

    Wouldn't it follow that, if in fact money is free speech, then gun play would also qualify?

    1. Calbeck   10 years ago

      You're endorsing violence as free speech in order to compare it to a non-violent form of speech (as defined by the Supreme Court)? Ah, well, no worries I guess, Salon agrees with you.

      http://www.salon.com/2015/04/2....._strategy/

  55. Alan@.4   10 years ago

    Re the two bums who are no longer with us, their bodies should be left to rot, or buried with pig waste.

    1. EndTheGOP   10 years ago

      Alan -- I understand the president has already ordered the same team who prepared Bin Laden's body for the proper Muslim burial to also going to prepare these bodies in Texas for the same.

      1. Suicidy   10 years ago

        Clearly a State funeral, at taxpayers expense of course, is warranted. And burial in Arlington. Administration representatives in attendance. To show proper respect to the 'religion of peace'.

  56. Calbeck   10 years ago

    Southern Poverty Law Center just labeled Ms. Geller "extremist" and put her on a watch list.

    1. Bodica Slayer of Drones   10 years ago

      Oh, well that settles it then. The SPLC is a piece of shit.

    2. Suicidy   10 years ago

      So, her coolness factor just skyrocketed again. Awesome.

  57. jaxolesa   10 years ago

    Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
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  58. 4thaugust1932   10 years ago

    Religions are ~2000 years old;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history
    Humans are ~200,000 years old;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
    Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_earth

    1. DesigNate   10 years ago

      I think there might be a zero missing from the first number, seeing as how ancient mesopotamians had religions.

      1. freedomlover   10 years ago

        Mesopotamians = Iraqis

        Think about it.

  59. TxJack 112   10 years ago

    Offensive speech or "politically incorrect" is the REASON for the 1st amendment. Progressive love to pretend the 1st amendment only applies when what is said is not offensive, but the term offensive is dictated by the times. When Martin Luther King called for all Americans to be treated as equals, there were many who found his words offensive. When the suffrage movement was playing, many men found the discussion of women voting to be offensive. When people lose the ability to speak openly, even when what they say is offensive, no one is free.

  60. CN_Foundation   10 years ago

    Say whatever you want about free speech and murder but remember the nearest right to be protected in the Bill of Rights after the First Amendment in America is the Second Amendment. In France how many would have been killed? Would there ever be a public competition like this there anyway? Never call an elderly judge senile to his face and expect justice anyway. - I suspect the American judicial oligarchy will have ex-judge Jimm Larry Hendren's back forever.

    America does not protect the honor of an original speaker by allowing exclusive control of "fixed" free speech "for a time". Most of Europe does this today after England did first in 1734.

  61. REMant   10 years ago

    Of course speech is justification for violence. What planet do you live on? You guys are no more libertarian than the "liberals."

    1. DesigNate   10 years ago

      lol wut?

  62. Bodica Slayer of Drones   10 years ago

    I forgot about Obama's "the future does not belong to those who defame Islam" comment. What the hell is wrong with an American president who can't defend Free Speech without reservations?

    Oh, and we should tell Obama - yes, the future does belong to we defamers.

    We're here. The gunmen are dead.

    1. freedomlover   10 years ago

      Well if SCOTUS can't defend free speech consistently and without question, then why should we expect more of a POTUS?

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