Debt Ceiling

Republicans Poised to Rubber-Stamp Another Debt Ceiling Increase

This is what you get with GOP control of Congress


The Mitch is back. |||

On Sunday, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) reiterated something that Republican leadership has been emphasizing since re-taking control of both houses of Congress:

"I made it very clear after the November election that we're certainly not going to shut down the government or default on the national debt. We'll figure some way to handle that. And hopefully, it might carry some other important legislation that we can agree on in connection with it," McConnell said on CBS' "Face the Nation."

Yes, this is what you get with GOP control of the purse-strings: hopefully and might.

What happened to the Republican strategy of using the always-unpopular spectre of raising the debt ceiling as leverage to enact reforms to tamp down aspects of federal spending? CBS News puts it like this:

the fight over the debt ceiling that came during the 2013 government shutdown hurt the Republicans' standing among Americans, decreasing their appetite for confrontation.

With control over only the House of Representatives from 2011-2014, Republicans were able to leverage debt-ceiling increases into putting together a commission on long-term entitlement spending, then enacting the sequestration cuts when that commission failed to produce a deal, then pressuring the Democratic-led Senate to finally pass a budget in 2014 after several years of doing nothing. This should have led to a budget conference between the chambers to hammer out the difference between bills that proposed spending $3.5 trillion and $3.7 trillion (I'm pretty sure there's a midpoint in there somewhere!). Instead, GOP petulants like Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) decided that appointing negotiators would be a big fat Beltway sellout, and so decided to stick to the awful business-as-usual of cramming what should be 12 separate spending bills into one big last-minute continuing resolution. But not before first shutting down the government over funding Obamacare.

"The way you win," Cruz told The Club for Growth late last month, "is you draw a line in the sand." When it comes to winning elections, Cruz has been right so far: After all, despite plentiful warnings that the shutdown would sink Republican chances in the 2014 midterms, something closer to the opposite took place. But when it comes to winning the policy, the GOP-led Congress is now funding Obamacare just as much as the divided Congress did before, and now debt-ceiling deadlines are occasions not for the meaningful possibility of restraining Leviathan, but for quick rubber stamps. It will be fascinating to see what kind of federal budget the party plops on President Barack Obama's desk.

UPDATE: Libertarian fave Justin Amash says raise the damn thing already:

"Let's avoid the theater and just move on with it," Rep. Justin Amash, R-Mich., said Tuesday. "They're just going to go through the motions anyways, and then whatever ideas conservatives put out there are going to be blamed for whatever standoff there is."

The above update is an old story, sorry.

UPDATE 2: Well, here's a statement from Amash's office! "The debt ceiling should be raised only if raising it is accompanied by reforms to the largest parts of the federal budget (entitlements and defense spending)."

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Debt Ceiling Ted Cruz

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117 responses to “Republicans Poised to Rubber-Stamp Another Debt Ceiling Increase

  1. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

    1. They’re not just The Stupid Party. They’re also The Craven Party.

    2. What a bunch of morons.

      After swearing up and down there is no way they won’t raise the debt ceiling as far and as fast as they can, they then turn around and say they’re going to use it as a bargaining chip for other legislation.

      They couldn’t even get into Remedial Negotiation, the prerequisite for Negotiation 101.

      1. I know you didn’t ask my opinion, but here it is anyway. Something really changed within the establishment Republican pols after Obama gave them that public shaming during the SOTU address a few years back. What tiny little amount of courage they once had was immediately and thoroughly destroyed. The more I think about it the more disgusted it leaves me. My response, as I trust would be the same for many people I associate with, would’ve been the exact opposite. But then I’m not someone who goes around feeling guilty about myself either, which is about the only possible explanation for Republican pols reaction to the “shaming.” They’re either gutless cowards, or they’re dirty and afraid they’ll be outed. Either way they’re squatting in offices that could otherwise be occupied by beneficial and responsible persons.

      2. Why do you think the GOP are “a bunch of morons”? In my humble opinion, most conservative voters are morons for believing their rhetoric, rather than looking at their record. You’d think they’d have learned their lesson with Obama. After all, how many conservatives warned us about Obama’s record, which was contrary to his rhetoric?

        The good news is most politicians are running like Tea Party patriots in their rhetoric, so they know what citizens want. But people need to vote for real fiscal conservatives (and that means voting Libertarian in most cases, though perhaps 15% of the GOP deserve our vote), and until then, we get what we vote for, good and hard.

        Don’t believe the RNC rhetoric – look at their voting records, and the spending they voted for.

  2. Just abolish the debt ceiling already. We’re doomed anyway.

    1. The existence of a debt ceiling is unconstitutional anyway. The United States is constitutionally mandated to pay its debts, no matter what.

      1. Not if we vote for politicians who change it.

  3. Republicans Poised to Rubber-Stamp Another Debt Ceiling Increase

    Isn’t that why they were elected?

    1. “To everyone that voted, I want you to know that I heard you. To two-thirds of voters that chose not to participate in the process yesterday, I hear you, too.”

      -Mitch McConnell

    2. GOP is short for ‘Gophers ready to serve Democrat masters.’

  4. Different pigs, same trough.

  5. Yet “mainstream” Republican leadership is unsure why actual conservatives refuse to give them money or votes.

    1. Well, it’s because they’re (actual conservatives) reactionary, violent, tea-bagging rat fuckers. That’s why.

      ACTUAL, good, establishment “conservatives” know you have to go along to get along. I mean – come on.

      1. Establishment candidates know you have to approve other politicians’ spending, if you want spending to go to the 1% rich who are providing your campaign cash. Fortunately, it’s not money that elects politicians, it’s voters. It’s the voters’ fault. And those who voted for them, deserve what they get good and hard.

  6. More change! I don’t know if I can handle these dynamic times.

  7. Evolution:

    “We can’t do anything if we’re not in power.”

    “We can’t do anything if we only have the House.”

    “We can’t do anything if we only have the House and the Senate.”

    “We can’t do anything if we want to stay in power.”

    What we need are some Young Earth Creationists.

  8. Matt,

    I like Cruz’s idea too.That being said, I am not sure how it plays out any way but bad for the Republicans. The media would have united and blamed the entire thing on the Republicans. I don’t see how it would have turned out well for them. I think there is a decent chance Obama would let the country go into temporary default if he thought he could blame it on the Republicans.

    The media seems to have totally destroyed that system by uniting to ensure it is the Congress not the President who gets blamed. Given that reality, I don’t see how they can fight it. Maybe if they really went balls to the wall and just shut the whole operation down until Obama yielded, the country would unite behind them. That seems like a big assumption it would work that way doesn’t it? Given the media environment, isn’t the country more likely to turn on them and produce a Democratic Congress and President in 2016? And if that happened, doing this would be a huge mistake, wouldn’t it?

    1. And understand, the President is responsible for any budget impasse because it is the Congress that has the power of the purse not the President. The Constitution gives the Congress the power to spend and borrow money. So that means if the President refuses to live by their dictates and vetoes their spending and borrowing bills, it is the President not the Congress who is causing the problem. Logically there is no way to distinguish it. They are both logically equally guilty of the resulting impasse. The difference is Congress is the one that has the Constitutionally mandated power over the budget. That to me makes the President responsible in that he is refusing to abide by Congress’ control over these matters.

      1. I think now would be a perfect time to shut the government down. The average person’s faith in government is the lowest its been since they’ve been tracking it, and the president is incredibly unpopular.

        1. agreed.

        2. Hear, hear!

          Shut that motherfucker DOWN. I mean right now.

          I’m all in.

        3. It has to be more than just “symbolic” stuff like blocking entrance to national parks.

          What would happen if “Congress refuses to act” on *anything*?

          1. Obama would just “have to” act on his own.

            1. Exactly.

              And then … Let the good times roll. 8-(

            2. That is exactly what he would do. He would just start borrowing without the consent of Congress. I would like to think him doing that would be the end of him. Realistically, however, he would likely get away with it and do grave damage to what is left of our Constitutional system by setting the precedent that the President can borrow money as he sees fit.

              The problem here is that Obama doesn’t give a fuck and both the Democrats and the media are united in ensuring he gets his way no matter what. Given that reality, I am not sure giving him the reason to start borrowing money without the consent of Congress is a very good idea.

              1. He would definitely get away with it. No way a court would rule those T-bills irredeemable, and probably they would deny anybody has standing to enjoin their redemption.

            3. It would take him a few days to find out the government was shutdown at least.

              1. “Hey – I just read about it in USA Today!”

          2. Rich|3.9.15 @ 11:29AM|#
            “It has to be more than just “symbolic” stuff like blocking entrance to national parks.”

            Unfortunately, the executive gets to choose quite a bit of what gets shut down. You can bet the most popular areas get hit first, with the Dem propaganda dept (NBC, CBS, NYT, etc) will be blasting the ‘uncaring GOP!’ for the dead bodies that will shortly be lying in the roads!

            1. Dem propaganda dept (NBC, CBS, NYT, etc) will be blasting the ‘uncaring GOP!’ for the dead bodies that will shortly be lying in the roads!

              Hah! With the government shut down, there will be no ROADZ!!

          3. Congress won’t refuse to act on anything. They approve spending bills every year. The right question, is what if Congress refuses to act on spending bills Obama refuses to sign. That will significantly cut government spending. And Obama will have the egg on his face in the voters eyes. He and the Democrats would be essentially throwing a tantrum hissy fit, which fits their personalities.

        4. I agree as well. Shut the government down, let the MSM and Democrats complain, and conservative voters (you know those who gave the GOP landslides in the midterms and historic control of legislatures and governorships) will know the truth. And when the Treasury runs out of funds, won’t it be great when Obama gets to decide whose check is delayed? Obama will be blamed for those choices, and he and the Democrats will make new enemies.

      2. Since passing a real budget has become passe, why don’t they just divide the thing up into little tiny pieces and pass a whole bunch of little budgets.

        Funding cut for DHS and the ATF? Obama can veto the bill, then they get zero funding until he changes his mind. Meanwhile the rest of the government continues to function.

        1. That is what they should do and did do with DHS on the amnesty issue. And the response from reason was Dalmia saying how the “Republicans just didn’t ‘grok’ how powerless they are”. They probably will do that with the FCC and net neutrality.

          Ultimately, the media has decided that the Congress doesn’t have the power of the purse. If the President is free to veto any spending bill he doesn’t like and blame the resulting impasse on Congress, Congress doesn’t have the spending power anymore. They are just a rubber stamp for what the President wants.

          If both the media and his own party stand with the President on an issue, the opposition party will lose every time. That is how Washington works. I am open for suggestions on how to change that. Until it does change, however, Obama is free to act in whatever means he likes as long as he doesn’t get crossways with the courts.

          1. I wonder if they are too lazy to do the whole thing that way. Or don’t really want to cut some of the fat out of obvious places like Commerce and HHS.

            1. They are not too lazy. That is how budgeting is done. It is a series of appropriations and authorization bills for each cabinet department. We only stopped doing it that way because Harry Reid refused to pass a budget and demanding it be done by CR. The reason for this was passing a budget would have required the Democrats admit up front how much they had increased baseline domestic spending. They didn’t want to do that. So they just ruled by CR from 06 until now.

              The Republicans plan to go back to a normal budgeting process this year and will give Obama a series of bills funding the government. It remains to be seen whether he will sign them or veto them all and hope to retain his leverage over being able to shut down the entire government if he doesn’t get what he wants.

          2. . I am open for suggestions on how to change that.

            *** waves hand ***

            Make “standing with the President” HATE SPEECH!

        2. That’s an interesting approach.

          Another is to start with the actual money on hand [*** bites lip ***]. Want to fund, say, DoD? OK, subtract whatever it takes. Want to fund, say, DHS? OK, subtract whatever it takes. Want to fund, say, Dept of Ed? Sorry, you have $256,832 left.

        3. That sounds like a lot of work. Can’t they just have their consultants draft huge spending bills and cast one vote instead?

    2. I think most of the people who voted for them would be okay with a shutdown. Fired up the Base the last time and it lead to an increase of seats. I would be okay with them shutting down the gov. for years it would show how little it actually impacts society at any level.

      1. What’s the point of the GOP holding both houses if they’re going to do very little with their power? If we still have Obamacare and every other piece of nonsense from this administration and the Democratic Congress, then what good are the Republicans?

        1. Oh they’re doing things alright

        2. They aren’t good and they should feel bad. They aren’t even good a simple politics, which is you know their job. McConnell and Boehner just got completely owned by Reid and Pelosi who are both incredibly good at their respective jobs as vile and nauseating that is.

        3. What’s the point of the GOP holding both houses if they’re going to do very little with their power?

          Ensuring that they get elected again? There’s little to gain by grandstanding over the budget now.

          1. A difference than makes no difference is no difference.

    3. The biased media will pick on us!

      Is there any GOP action that crutch can’t be used to excuse?

      1. Perception is reality in politics. Moreover, if they shut down the government, you would be on here concern trolling about how irresponsible they were. So, given that the only thing you ever do is concern troll, your concern trolling over how they should ignore the obvious bias of the media and the effects of that bias, doesn’t really mean a whole lot.

        1. I’d rather concern troll than constantly shill for one Team like you, John.

          This ‘the media is biased and will pick on us’ is not only embracing victimhood and excuse making, it’s self contradictory (the line goes that the media is so hopelessly biased it will attack the GOP no matter what they do and yet they must always be wary of running afoul of the same media).

        2. He does tend to do that however, in this case he’s absolutely right. The Republicans would still be scene as an insidious force even if they proposed right thinking policies further to the left of Elizabeth Warren by the media. They literally can’t win, yet they still are able to gain seats in the legislature and governorship throughout the country at what point are they going to use their sizable political leverage to you know enact policies that people actually want.

          1. The problem with the ‘unfair media bias’ line other than what I’ve noted already is that we have an increasingly diverse media environment. Even if traditional media is biased for the Dems increasingly people are getting their news elsewhere.

            1. We don’t. If we did, the country would be blaming Obama for the budget impasse. More importantly, even if that is not the result of media bias, it is still reality. So all you are doing is wondering why the Republicans won’t commit electoral suicide in fighting Obama. In other words, you are as usual concern trolling.

    4. The media don’t ensure Congress gets the blame, they ensure Republicans get the blame, whether they’re in control of Congress or the White House. Maybe that’s what you meant, or were writing only about the present situation.

      1. I was writing about the present situation. reverse the parties and Congress would have the power of the purse again.

  9. Republicans Poised to Rubber-Stamp Another Debt Ceiling Increase be useless and fail the American people yet again.


  10. OT: Philadelphia Officer Slain at GameStop Wanted to Reward Son for Good Grades

    Read more:…..z3TtxVbC4M

    Wilson, an 8-year veteran from the 22nd District, died from his injuries after he was shot several times at close range late Thursday afternoon during an attempted robbery inside the GameStop store at Hope Plaza Shopping Center at 2101 W. Lehigh Avenue. The 30-year-old father left behind two young children, ages 8 and 1, as well as a grandmother. The older boy turns 9 on Monday.

    The officer was standing in full uniform by the store’s counter when two men ? identified by police as brothers Carlton Hipps, 30, and 26-year-old Ramone Williams ? entered the store around 4:30 p.m.

    1. Poor guy.

      Too bad he didn’t kill the robbers.

    2. Furtive movement?

    3. What a shame.

    4. If you walk into a store to commit robbery and an police officer is standing there, don’t you just abort mission at that point?

  11. I thought Obama had slashed the deficit. Why do we need to borrow more? Oh, that’s right…

    1. Well, right now, he’s stopping the seas from rising, so he’ll get to the deficit sometime soon! He promised!

  12. I was doing some philosophical searching over the weekend, and I began to think about the relationship between Democrats and Republicans, vs say, Democrats and Libertarians.

    And I began to realize why, in some ways, libertarians scare Democrats more than Republicans do.

    If one considers your garden-variety Democrat, they may be for advancing any number of issues: Legalizing gay marriage, legal but-regulated marijuana market, free/low cost college tuition, raising minimum wages etc.

    Your garden variety republican may want various tough-on-crime bills, immigration restrictions, increased military spending.

    These opposing viewpoints give Democrats and Republicans something to negotiate over. Now imagine the Democrat confronting the libertarian. They have little to nothing to talk about. What increase in state power are we willing to offer them in exchange?

    1. None. We’re totally irreconcilable. Which is why the left-libertarian alliances that get proposed around here before each election are so laughable. We’re anti-state. They’re TOTAL STATE.

      1. Lemon bars. Maybe if we made Democrats some lemon bars, we’d have something to negotiate over.

        1. Would these lemon bars be subsidized mandated in some way?

        2. No. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! I mean, maybe oatmeal cookies, but not lemon bars.

    2. As some wag observed: Republicans tell me what I must not do; Democrats tell me what I must do.

      Keep on searching, Paul.

    3. As I see it, Democrats give lip service to personal liberty while being openly hostile to economic liberty, while Republicans give lip service to economic liberty while being openly hostile to personal liberty. In practice though there really isn’t much of a difference between the two. They’re both hostile to liberty.

      1. Pretty much this.

      2. Yes. And an actual Libertarian isn’t just giving lip service. That is why even Rand Paul scares the crap out of both sides.

      3. When the two come together to destroy liberty it’s pure synergy.

  13. Republicans Poised to Rubber-Stamp Another Debt Ceiling Increase

    Politicians okay with spending other people’s money when politically advantageous to them. Also fine with deferred taxation. More at eleven.

  14. It gets harder and harder all the time to take this journal seriously when they constantly flip-flop back and forth and change their position on an issue like this. We get stuff like this when the republican rubber stamp more debt, and we get articles whining about how stupid they are when they threaten another fake government shutdown.

    Does Reason think that the debt ceiling should be raised in perpetuity or doesn’t it? The endless concern trolling just for the sake of concern trolling has become tiresome.

    1. Meh, I see what you are saying but to defend Matt I believe he was against the shutdown originally because it was pointless as the Republicans didn’t have both houses of congress at that time and could never realistically get their way. Now it “could” be spun as being Obama’s fault if they nuked the filitbuster in the senate and put a budget on his desk.


      1. Your story grows tiresome.

        1. Touch my monkey! Love him! Liebe mein monkey!!

        2. Liebe mein abstmeinkey!

  15. WOO-HOO!!!



    1. What is it, precisely, that they oppose?

  16. So the Republicans will destroy America because they are afraid they won’t get reelected?

    We can’t pass a Constitutional Amendment establishing a single term limit (with intervening votes of confidence) fast enough.

    These fuckers are truly evil and need their teeth pulled.

    1. “… need their teeth pulled.”

      We could then sell their teeth to the Tooth Fairy to raise money:

    2. This amendment you propose to torture long-tenured politicians intrigues me.

    3. Okay Fransisco,

      Let them do it and stop the debt for a little bit and give the Democrats a 2009 like majority in 2016. How exactly will that make things better?

      The problem here is that the Democratic Party has gone nuts and thinks they will never run out of other people’s money. I am not sure how you can blame the Republicans for not making a futile and suicidal effort to stop them.

      A Republic only works if both sides are sane and reasonable. They don’t have to agree but they have to both be sane. And the Democrats are barking mad. No amount of spending will ever satisfy them and any attempt to limit spending will be called extremism.

      You tell me how the Republicans are supposed to work with the Democrats and Obama. It is not like the Democrats have offered any kind of reasonable plan to cut spending and the two sides just can’t agree over how to do it. And any time the Republicans try to cut spending, the Democrats refuse to support it or vote to override Obama’s veto.

      1. What’s the point of having power to stop the madness and letting the madness continue? I am sick and tired of Republicans acting like the new normal is socialism and unconstrained federal power. We didn’t get here without their active help.

        1. That is just it, they don’t have the power to stop the madness. At best they have the power to stop it for a short time. Without holding the Presidency, they don’t have the power to stop anything in this environment.

          Worse still, they might not even stop it for a short time. I think there is a real possibility that not raising the debt ceiling would give Obama the excuse to borrow on his own. He would no doubt get away with doing that. And as bad as this is, setting the precedent that the President can do that would be worse.

          All the Republicans can do at this point is sit tight and work to get the Presidency back. And as far as the damage Obama is doing, well, the country re-elected him didn’t they? Why should Congress shield them from all of the consequences of that?

          At this point the best thing to do is make it clear Obama is acting unlawfully and irresponsibly and that the Republicans would stop him but can’t without help from the Democrats.

        2. Think of it this way, if a group of Democrats sufficient to override Obama’s vetoes came to the Republicans tomorrow and said “okay lets do something about spending and set up a centrist ruling coalition”, you don’t think the Republicans would jump at the chance? I think they would. That offer hasn’t and likely won’t happen, however. Explain to me why it is the Republicans’ fault for not shutting the government down and threatening the country with default to stop Obama and not the Democrats’ fault for not standing up and reigning him in themselves?

          1. There’s always an excuse for their inaction. All I care about are results, and I see no sign that this Congress will magically become anti-Leviathan if a GOP president is elected. I bet they don’t even gut Obamacare.

            1. Who says the best or even good option has to be available? Just because the Republicans are a bad option, doesn’t mean the Democrats are not worse.

              This is why progs always win and the right always loses. Progs always have played the long game and taken whatever small gains are available. People on the right are forever looking for the quick and revolutionary solution. Since that never comes, they get nothing. Meanwhile, the Progs have spent 70 years accumulating one gain after another.

              Understand, there will be no Libertarian President or Congress no matter what you do. Also, understand, whichever side wins won’t give a fuck that they won because you or anyone else stayed home or made a Quixotic vote for a third party. Worse still, whenever the Republicans lose an election it is always blamed on them not surrendering enough to the Democrats. So giving the Democrats more power is likely to make the Republicans worse not better.

              1. All I know is that the economy and my freedoms are fucked if things don’t change. If the GOP is going to continue to operate as they have been, the disaster is coming, regardless of whether they secretly hate government, too, which I highly doubt.

      2. Frankly, on the issue of debt and spending, I don’t see any real difference any more between Dems and Repubs.

        Even the big public spats they have about spending are mostly for show, anyway.

        So, on these issues, why should I care whether the Dems have a big majority or not? The only differences between Repubs and Dems on spending are either cosmetic or amount to decimal dust.

        1. You should care because the reality says there is a difference. Compare spending over the last 15 years.


          Look at spending as a percent of GNP over the course of this century. It was constant until 2008, the first year the Democrats had real control over the budget, went up from 30% to 40% of GNP only to return to about 35% after the Republicans retook the House. Had the Republicans not taken the House it would have stayed at 40% and probably would be higher.

          There is a difference RC. You just pretend there isn’t because it makes you feel good.

          1. It’s still a budget that runs a deficit and builds up debt.

            I’d call that a difference without distinction.

            1. The car is still pointed towards the cliff. The foot is still pressing down on the accelerator.

              1. President Thelma and VP Louise?

                1. Pretty much. As far as I’m concerned, the next couple of years are the last I tolerate the Not As Bad party. If with the recent disaster in government, they can’t make any positive change, for whatever reason, then I might as well go to completely “wasting” my vote on LP and independent candidates across the board.

            2. I would call 10% of GNP one hell of a difference. Can I have 10% of everything you own JW? If not why not? You just said 10% is a difference without distinction. So my taking 10% of everything you own should be no different than my taking anything.

              It makes you guys feel good to pretend that only you are right and everyone else is equally evil. That, however, is both not true and your thinking is one of the biggest reasons why you are such political losers and the Progs such winners.

              I hate the Progs and would like to see them be losers for once. But so many people on the Right seem to get their self identity from being losers. I will never understand the appeal of losing, I don’t care what principle you stand on.

              1. Losing what, John? My freedom? The value of my property? The GOP isn’t doing much at all to head off the looming disaster. If they’re more concerned with re-election and handing out goodies–which is the main reason they care about staying in power–what good are they? Spending slightly less, if they in fact do that, won’t save us now. We need more radical change.

          2. There is a difference RC. You just pretend there isn’t because it makes you feel good.

            The only difference it will take the Dems 20 years to destroy the Republic and it will take the Reps 30.

            If you don’t need to get reelected you don’t need to give people free shit. You can shut down the government when it’s the right thing to do for the nation and there are no ramifications whatsoever.

            You give these fuckers a single 8 or 10 year term in the Senate and a 4 or 6 year term in the house and run a vote of confidence every 2 years where you require a 2/3 down-vote to boot them early. This keeps them accountable to their constituency but the only thing they are running against is their own record.

            It’s the power gravy train that is going to lead to the fall of the Republic. Get rid of it!

            1. you don’t think 10% of the GNP is a difference? If not, then why can’t I have 10% of everything you own? I mean, if I asked you, I am sure you would give me a quarter or a dollar. If you would do that and 10% is no different, then why not 10%.

              Again, you are never going to get a perfect solution. So your choices are take the best solution available or not do anything and help to ensure the worst solution.

              If there is one thing I have learned from reading these threads over the years is that most Libertarians don’t want to win. Libertarianism attracts people who want to be a part of hopeless causes and want to lose. There is a tremendous amount of freedom that comes with being powerless and always losing. You are never responsible for the situation in the world and since your ideas never have any real world effect, you never have to face up to any of their limitations. The feeling of powerless, righteous rage is very appealing to some people. So appealing, that they would never give it up even if doing so were an option.

              1. What difference does it make? 20 years or 30 years? It’s still gone. Your Republicans will accomplish the same heinous outcome, it will simply take a little longer (and not much longer at that).

                The root cause needs to be addressed and fixed.

                1. I don’t know. Time will tell what difference it makes. One thing is for sure, doing nothing and refusing to accept even small improvements won’t do any good.

                2. What difference does it make? 20 years or 30 years? It’s still gone.

                  Would you say that regarding a medical treatment? What’s the difference if you live 20 or 30 yrs., you’re still going to die.

                  Is it not good that bad things be postponed?

                  1. Rather crash it and start over, than live in the misery of it getting progressively (pun intended) worse and worse.

          3. Better than that, look at the states.

  17. We’re $18 Trillion in the debt hole now, and the only thing we do about it is argue the political optics of digging it deeper.

    1. We need fundamental change, not more business as usual.

      1. Change we can believe in?

        1. Spare some change? Change?

          /South Park

    2. No, dig up, stupid.

  18. My best friend’s mother-in-law makes $85 /hour on the internet . She has been out of work for 5 months but last month her pay was $16453 just working on the internet for a few hours.
    Visit this website ???????????????

  19. whatever ideas conservatives put out there are going to be blamed for whatever standoff there is.

    Oh shit, I think the tea party is gaining sentience.

    1. Derp derp derp derpity doo

  20. They should go ahead an get rid of the debt ceiling anyway as it is not an actual ceiling if you simply raise it every time you approach it. If they don’t abolish it they might as well change the name to something along the lines of “Debt Limit Suggestion”, or something.

  21. my friend’s sister-in-law makes $63 /hour on the internet . She has been fired from work for 6 months but last month her payment was $16955 just working on the internet for a few hours. go to the website…….


  22. It’s all a big game! Just follow the ;paths as they spin faster and faster to the cliff
    It’s all true. This world has gone too far there is no more evil that has not been done!

  23. Both the D’s and the R’s are a bunch of greedy, irresponsible SOB’s who will NEVER have enough revenue. There is always another election, and another vote to buy.

    1. Votes are a lot more expensive these days. Pols used to buy them for sandwiches or bowls of soup. These days they expect high value gifts that cost the nation it’s entire future.

  24. When Obama speaks, we expect him to be lying. And when Republican leadership speaks we seem to accept that it is the truth. Can’t we have more lying in the Rep. Ranks, and have McConnell block the PPACA funding forever, etc? Such a conundrum.

  25. Here’s the deal the House Freedom Caucus should stand behind: Vote no on a clean debt ceiling bill unless the House approves a “Balanced Budget” amendment bill. The same with Senate Republicans.

    Clearly, Congress, by itself, will never be able to cut spending if they have to win their next election, it’s time to take the issue out of their hands completely and place it in the hands of the people who will actually have to pay the bill: We the little People.

  26. People are far more likely to tolerate those who are gutsy. It’s just human nature.

  27. Oh, come on, ALL of you….

    It’s not the Debt, it’s the Carrying Cost of the Debt… i.e, the interest load, and the interest on the Debt is a reasonable fraction of the GDP and can stay that way if the electorate would only stop asking their elected officials to spend more money on crap we don’t need!

    Second, EVERY TIME the US has approached the Debt Limit, IT HAS BEEN RAISED.

    What does that tell any rational, intelligent person? It says that if you ALWAYS raise the Limit just before you Approach it you’re playing games with yourself and lying about reality. Abolish the Limit, fools! It’s a game and it’s all bread and circuses if you had the balls to admit it!

    Oh, and third, if you think a Balanced Budget Amendment makes sense, rethink that! All THAT means is that Congress would adjust taxes or find new things to tax IN ORDER TO MATCH revenues to spending!

    You think THAT is a ‘solution’?

    You have my sympathies, but NO support, on all of those ‘ideas.’

    Reason? I’m embarrassed for you. Libertarians? Not with any economic smarts…

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