Teen Girl Fatally Shot by Cops at Texas Police Station

It takes multiple cops firing multiple shots to subdue a 17-year-old girl with a knife?

A teen girl in Longview, Texas, was fatally shot by police officers last Thursday after showing up at the Longview Police Department (LPD) "brandishing a weapon." In interviews and official statements, the department has been vague about what kind of weapon Kristiana Coignard, 17, was carrying—a news release from LPD is titled "Longview Police Identify the Suspect in January 23rd Shooting," giving the impression our suspect/victim was wielding a gun herself. But Longview Mayor Jay Dean said he was told that Coignard was carrying a knife. 

A knife is certainly not nothing. But it is also not a gun. And one can't help but wonder why three cops, in the middle of their own lobby, were unable to subdue a knife-wielding teen girl without the use of lethal force. Coignard was shot multiple times—some sources are saying four times, though I couldn't confirm this—and three police officers have been placed on administrative leave in conjunction with the shooting. 

According to LPD's statement, Coignard had showed up in the front lobby around 6:28 p.m. on January 22:

When Officers arrived they were confronted by a white female who threatened them. The suspect brandished a weapon, made threatening movements toward the officers and was shot. The suspect was transported to Good Shepherd Medical Center where she were pronounced dead by a Justice of the Peace. The Texas Rangers have been called in to investigate this shooting.

Coignard had been living with her aunt, Heather Robertson, who told ThinkProgress that the girl struggled with depression and bipolar disorder and had previously attempted suicide several times. "I think it was a cry for help," said Robertson about her niece's actions. "I think (police officers) could have done something. They are grown men. I think there is something they are not telling us."

People claiming to be with the hacker collective Anonymous are rallying around Coignard's case. "We ask you what kind of people you hire as a police officer that can't take a knife from a small 17 year old girl?" they ask. "We ask you why are your officer's carrying tazors if they will only reach for their guns first? … To the citizens of America it looks as if police are trained to kill and not to serve and protect us."

In 2014, we saw a bevy of tragedies involving mentally troubled teens killed by police officers. Last January, for instance, a 90-pound schizophrenic teen with no weapon whatsoever was fatally shot less than two minutes after North Carolina police entered his home; his parents had called the cops for help subduing the agitated boy. Last August, a 19-year-old with bipolar disorder was fatally shot in Florida after police mistook a cordless drill she was holding for an Uzi and a suicidal Kansas teen was shot by police more than a dozen times. 

Comments

[DEATFBIRSECIA]

It's obvious from the picture that she was a master of the Five Fingered Death Punch, so they really had no choice.

[Bryan C]

Insidious. We'll have cops dropping dead years from now as a result of this single attack.

[Marshall Gill]

That is not nearly soon enough.

[The Last American Hero]

When practiced properly, the Toad Style is nearly invincible.

[Karl Hungus]

Looks more to me like the Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique, as taught by Pei Mei.

[Howdy]

I killed that old man by poisoning his fish! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Colorado Mountain Snake

[prolefeed]

Lacking more information, I'm not going to jump to conclusions. Someone wielding a knife, if they're running at you, doesn't leave a lot of time to react and protect yourself.

If she was just standing there, then I'd have some questions about why they shot her. But police officers have the right to self-defense, same as everyone else.

[sarcasmic]

They have a right to self defense, but they're also supposedly trained to use the minimal amount of force necessary to defuse a situation. I say supposedly because they face no consequences when they use the maximum amount of force at hand, and enjoy every minute of it.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Will there be an inquest? If so, I'll wait for what they say.

[sarcasmic]

Totality of the circs. Commands were not obeyed. Procedure was followed. The end.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I'm thinking of the inquest jury in that shooting case in Montana, where the jurors found the shooting justified.

Juries can be wrong, but I need to be persuaded before saying a particular jury erred.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

And wasn't one of the Reason writers supposed to do a follow-up on that Montana case?

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Probably busy at the moment polling some millenials.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Is that what the kids are calling it these days?

[Will4Freedom]

[badum-dum-Tshhhhhh]

[Zeb]

Probably busy at the moment polling some millenials.

Be honest. You would be too, given the opportunity.

[mrvco]

So that's what they're calling it now?

[UCrawford]

Juries can be wrong, but I need to be persuaded before saying a particular jury erred.

Agreed. When someone walks armed into a police station, I'm going to tend to side with the cops on a shooting unless evidence surfaces that clearly shows they behaved negligently or irresponsibly. Just like when cops go into someone's home on a no-knock warrant and shoot up the place while finding no drugs, I'm probably going to assume they royally screwed up or lied on their warrant.

The girl had a history of mental issues, walked into a police station with a knife, and reportedly threatened the officers...frankly that sounds like suicide by cop more than police brutality. And if that's the case, she got what she wanted out of the deal, so you can't blame the police.

[Spencer]

Texas rangers are typically better than that, I would hope... but inside I know better since they canceled chuck norris from their ranks.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

The Texas Rangers were jealous of Chuck Norris because he kept knocking out criminals with his stare.

[Spencer]

little known fact- that's in basic training for Texas rangers. That's not why they were jealous.

it's because he's the first ginger ever with a soul.

[CharlesWT]

The Texas Rangers were also jealous of Chuck Norris because only he had a pickup truck that could reach any point in Texas in thirty minutes or less.

[Overt]

They have a right to self defense, but they're also supposedly trained to use the minimal amount of force necessary to defuse a situation.

When I read statements like that, I see the writer assuming that Cops should know some jiujitsu move like you see in movies where the person comes at them with a knife and they sidestep, catch the arm and disarm them in a deft move. I don't know if that's what Sarcasmic meant, but if so I think it is too much to expect of anyone. A knife is a lethal weapon, and if someone chooses to brandish it, I don't place responsibility on the cop to try and disarm them. Even people well trained in hand-to-hand have been seriously injured or killed by knives- I think the better course is to stand off and show your gun, attempting to convince them to drop it.

It isn't clear whether they tried to do that, or just drew and shot the second they saw a glint of metal. Nor is it clear if she even gave the cops a chance to tell her to drop the weapon. I do think it a bit much for ENB to say "It takes multiple cops firing multiple shots to subdue a 17-year-old girl with a knife?" That seems to implicitly suggest that you should attempt to subdue someone holding a knife. That is just wrong thinking, unless you believe it is more important to get someone with a lethal weapon alive and possibly risk death.

[Free Society]

If 3 guys with a concealed weapon unloaded on the girl and later claimed it was self-defense, because this teenage girl had a knife. Do you think they'd get as much benefit of the doubt as a cop? Or would they be arrested and vigorously prosecuted?

[OneOut]

Three adult males, especially trained as POs, and wearing tasers, CAN disarm a 17 yr old GIRL .

Disgusting.

[OneOut]

Three adult males, especially trained as POs, and wearing tasers, CAN disarm a 17 yr old GIRL .

Disgusting.

[UCrawford]

When I read statements like that, I see the writer assuming that Cops should know some jiujitsu move like you see in movies where the person comes at them with a knife and they sidestep, catch the arm and disarm them in a deft move.

Yup. I think there are some people who are drawing a lot of conclusions about how easy it is to disarm someone with a knife without serious bodily injury to themselves. Especially in a situation where the suspect may not have given them much time to decide.

[Cloudbuster]

When I was a teenage boy, a friend's younger brother threatened me with a knife. I disarmed him. Later we all had a good laugh about it. Should I have shot him? What do you think the odds are that I would have done time for murder or manslaughter? Pretty high, I think. And a kid would be dead.

Three adult police officers against a little 17-year-old girl? They've got a duty to man up and risk getting cut to not shoot some poor deranged girl.

[Gene]

Three adult police officers against a little 17-year-old girl? They've got a duty to man up and risk getting cut to not shoot some poor deranged girl.

Apparently it's just too much to ask of our brave heros.

[gaoxiaen]

They were afraid this might happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u31OjOPF-ZI

[Will4Freedom]

The author didn't SAY the kid was wearing skin tight leather pants... That changes everything.

[Hicks]

In England, the cops were able to disarm a crazy guy who just had just beheaded a woman with out firing a shot, while here they had tasers, outnumbered her 3:1 but were afraid of a cut.

Just because she's suicidal doesn't mean it's okay to shoot her, even if it's legal.

[wwhorton]

Yeah, it's a shame that there isn't some sort of training or academy or something where we could send police to learn the same close combat techniques that are available to our military or interested citizens. If only there was some sort of school where potential candidates could go for several months to learn the various skills they might need as police.

Moron.

[Nosea]

yup, like you know, taking out your billy-club and knocking the knife out of her hand and maybe another cop taking her legs from under her. Shame indeed we can't have some academy baton skills implementation and mastery program. Maybe, it is not cost effective. Bullets are prob pretty cheap.

[buybuydandavis]

Bullets are prob pretty cheap.

One of my favorite anecdotes about the Khmer Rouge.

They would kill people with clubs and pick axes. Bullets were consumable items, but a club could kill thousands, and was a renewable resource besides. No foreign exchange required!

[Meerkatx]

If only these cops carried non lethal means of subduing someone.

I bet one day someone will invite a gadget that will let you shock someone from a distance with enough current to subdue them but not kill them in most cases.

[buybuydandavis]

That seems to implicitly suggest that you should attempt to subdue someone holding a knife.

If you're sworn to "serve and protect" and have an overwhelming advantage, yes.

If cops can't manage an overwhelming advantage against a 90 lb girl in their own house, they all need to be fired.

[Mark22]

I think you are overestimating the police. Yes, they receive training, but in the end, they are just out of shape blue collar workers. They don't have magic powers to subdue criminals any more than you do.

In the end, they can use deadly force like anybody else, in self defense. And they can use deadly force in some additional situations, like in order to stop suspects in a violent felony.

I don't know whether that's a good system or whether there is anything better, but it's the best we got.

[Free Society]

If she was just standing there, then I'd have some questions about why they shot her. But police officers have the right to self-defense, same as everyone else.

An officer's right to self-defense is absolutely not the same as everyone else's. An officer's right to self-defense supersedes your right to self-defense. An officer's right includes a right to aggress, has a lower standard of proof and a huge amount of institutional and personal preference from the judicial system.

[Zeb]

Barf. How do so many people believe this shit (I know you don't)? Completely backwards.

[Free Society]

I don't believe such 'rights' could possibly be valid. Since all of the cops' rights/privileges are ostensibly derived from rights forfeited by the people they police, then there cannot possibly exist a right to use force that's anywhere near the level of discretion that police officers enjoy since clearly a regular person cannot have such a right.

[Mark22]

An officer's right to self-defense supersedes your right to self-defense. An officer's right includes a right to aggress, has a lower standard of proof and a huge amount of institutional and personal preference from the judicial system.

That's all true. It's also how voters deliberately set up the system.

If you want to change this, huffing and puffing like you are doing isn't going to help. You need to explain to voters why they should change it, and so far, most of them seem to see little reason to.

[Free Society]

That's all true. It's also how voters deliberately set up the system.

So what? Yes the system was deliberately designed, that's not a revelation.

If you want to change this, huffing and puffing like you are doing isn't going to help.

Huffing and puffing? It was a bit of sarcasm to describe the outcome of inequality before the law.

Arriving late to the thread to offer a worthless critique of a post you took out of context also "doesn't help"- whatever that's supposed to mean.

[Mark22]

Arriving late to the thread to offer a worthless critique

The critique is only "worthless" to you because you are hopelessly caught up in progressive and statist thinking, thinking. You think there is some standard of conduct that's imposed from the top down that you deem right.

In reality, what you don't like about police, namely the license to use violence as much as they do, is largely determined at the local level: it's what local voters decide to do. They'd make the same choice if their community was run as private property and they contracted out the police work to private contractors if we had a libertarian society.

Police are violent not because statist beliefs about state power give them excessive power, but because what people in communities generally want. The mechanism by which local policing is regulated is very similar to the way it would be determined in an HOA: local votes, mostly by home owners.

As far as libertarianism is concerned, actions by local police (or local government) are really way down on the list of things to worry about. The problem with police we have in this country are primarily the massive growth of federal police, widespread surveillance, and domestic spying.

[Bryan C]

"But police officers have the right to self-defense, same as everyone else."

Actually they don't. At least not to the same degree as "everyone else." They've chosen a job that requires them to sacrifice their personal safety in order to perform their duties.

There's not much point in having cops if we expect them to act and react just like people who aren't cops.

[sarcasmic]

They've chosen a job that requires them to sacrifice their personal safety in order to perform their duties.

That's so quaint. Officer safety is their number one priority, while servin' and protectin' come in dead last.

[Free Society]

There's not much point in having cops if we expect them to act and react just like people who aren't cops.

'cop' is not a separate moral category from 'human'. The same ethical obligations apply.

[CE]

Actually, the police should be held to a higher standard of ethical obligation, not given a free pass to shoot children and dogs the first second they feel threatened.

[UCrawford]

So basically you believe that a teenager walking into a police station with a weapon and threatening officers is the same danger level to an officer as a dog penned up in a yard?

If so, I think you've got a pathological hatred of police that's corroded the logic portion of your brain.

[wwhorton]

You think a teenage girl with a possible knife walking into a goddamn police station to confront multiple police officers is the same kind of scenario as a 6'4" 250 lb. Navy Seal with a ka-bar attacking an unarmed victim unawares? Then you're either completely delusional or you have an incredibly low opinion of police officers.

I'm not saying that the police should have stood there and allowed the teenage girl to stab them. Mind you, since the police won't release the video surveillance we don't know what she did to get shot. I am however saying that if three police armed with batons, pepper spray, foreknowledge, and at least a modicum of training can't subdue a 17-year-old girl who probably weighs in at 105 max and is confined to an enclosed lobby then what's the point of having police at all?

[Free Society]

Actually, the police should be held to a higher standard of ethical obligation, not given a free pass to shoot children and dogs the first second they feel threatened.

Holding them to the same standard as everyone else is all you need for them to not murder with impunity. We don't need to hold them to a higher standard which would be nearly impossible for a class of professionals subsisting extortion loot for their paychecks.

[Migrant Log Picker]

Good point, Bryan C...very good point.

[Mark22]

They've chosen a job that requires them to sacrifice their personal safety in order to perform their duties.

Well, obviously they have not chosen a job that actually, according to current laws and regulations, requires them to do that.

You might wish that that is so, you might argue that it would be good that it were so, you might even try to argue that the intent of the law is that it is so. But in practice, it is not so.

[Praveen R.]

Watch the damn video. The cop had already fully restrained her TWICE. TRhe final time, she was flat on the floor with her hand behind her back. WHY didn't he cuff her? Or when he had fully restrained her, why would he be stupid enough to let her lie on the ground and then get up and back away? Was he inviting trouble?

There were so many wrong things in that video even if you do not believe a cop should be able to defend himself with lesser force against a skinny chick with a knife especialy when he had plenty of time to assess the situation.

[Praveen R.]

Sorry, I didn't realize the video wasn't released by the time the comment was made.

[Mike M.]

Don't look for Al Sharpton and all the rest of the scum at MSNBC to make a very big deal out of this one. I'm pretty sure I don't need to explain why.

[Spencer]

because it was a girl?

[Charles Easterly]

Is it because the name Coignard is hard to pronounce?

[buybuydandavis]

That was funny.

[Monty Crisco]

"That drill looked LIKE AN UZI!!!!!"

What kind of fucking moron would you have to be....?

That is literally Tony level of dipshittery...

[WTF]

More like "That drill looks like an EXCUSE!!!" *BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM!*

[Kuwanki]

Well, that is just idle speculation. To be fair, we should ask Tony if this is literally a Tony level of dipshittery. What would he say? e.g. "Yes, this is truly a Tony level of dipshittery." Or would he say (in his own defense) "Oh no, this is orders of magnitude greater than a Tony level of dipshittery." Or would he, with sad predictability, say, there is no such thing as a Tony level of dipshittery, that this is a mere paranoid artifact created by so-called libertarians in an attempt to keep me imprisoned in my parents basement", or some such.

[Monty Crisco]

And, yes, John, this is the reason that we, THE PEOPLE, should have body armor. So we have the same advantage as the pigs...

[Steve G]

I only came to this thread to ensure the body armor bait had been placed.
*walks away satisfied*

[Charles Easterly]

Someone just had to go and....

[wwhorton]

Isn't it interesting that body armor--a purely defensive item--is regulated as much as firearms. And the only reason is so that police can be sure that if they fire at a non-cop the victim won't be protected.

Black Talon ammo got discontinued because it could potentially penetrate police body armor, which is villainy, but enacting laws that make it harder for non-police to protect themselves from being shot just in case someone a cop wants to shoot might be wearing a vest is fine?

Tell me again about how hard it is to be a cop.

[Cloudbuster]

"Black Talon ammo got discontinued because it could potentially penetrate police body armor,"

No it couldn't. That's a ridiculous myth. Black Talon was a mediocre-to-good hollowpoint round for its day. No special capabilities. Nearly the exact same bullet is available in Ranger SXT and Ranger T-Series and those rounds are solidly in the middle of the pack for performance.

[Ken Shultz]

"Heather Robertson, who told ThinkProgress that the girl struggled with depression and bipolar disorder and had previously attempted suicide several times. "I think it was a cry for help"

This is a tragedy.

It also appears to be "suicide by cop".

I don't know how much clearer a case of suicide by cop could possibly be.

Did she leave a suicide note?

[Sudden]

"Heather Robertson, who told ThinkProgress that the girl struggled with depression and bipolar disorder and had previously attempted suicide several times.

So she was a typical attractive teenage girl?

[Zeb]

Um. No.

[UCrawford]

They usually don't leave notes.

I've known a few people with bipolar disorder who didn't get it treated. When they broke from reality, they were perfectly capable of deciding that they wanted to provoke a cop into shooting them...even if it meant endangering the cop to make it happen.

[Johnny Bravo]

where she were pronounced dead by a Justice of the Peace.

Shouldn't a doctor determine whether or not she is dead? And I won't even comment about the "she were pronounced" issue.

[SFC B]

I'm going to guess they're confusing "physican decalred her dead" with "Justice of the Peace signs a death certificate".

[tarran]

A knife is no joke. It can kill you as dead as a gun can. It's just harder to use and far more likely to hurt the wielder than a gun is.

IF she did indeed make threatening movements then shooting her would be a justified act of self-defense. IF she entered the police station and started brandishing the knife that implies a malevolent intent that is very different from the cops showing up in her kitchen and having her brandish the knife.

Knife vs gun in close quarters is not fun.

[Spencer]

don't we have that foam gun stuff that they could have sprayed and basically glued her still?

[Steve G]

been replaced by bolo's

[Spencer]

and batarangs.

[Bobarian (hyphenated-american)]

Which are all superceded by Bataguns.

[Swiss Servator, ... Switzy!]

How about a Batazooka?

[Bryan C]

I get that. But there are lots of them and just one girl and one knife.

[Zeb]

I could see it being legitimate. But I still think the police should be obliged to accept greater danger before using deadly force in self defense than the rest of us, so I still need some convincing that she was such a threat that nothing else could have been done.

[Mark22]

But I still think the police should be obliged to accept greater danger before using deadly force in self defense than the rest of us

I think a good guideline for thinking about this is: what could private police forces do in a libertarian society?

There are a lot of things they can do right now they couldn't do in a libertarian society. But they would be entitled to the same rights of self-defense as anybody else.

[Warty]

It also depends on what kind of knife she had. I'm thinking it's considerably more likely that she had a 1.5 inch Swiss Army knife than an actual, you know, weapon.

[The Last American Hero]

Especially if she goes all Matt Damon Bourne Identity on them.

[Paper Wasp]

They have these nifty things now, called "Tasers." They can fire little electric darts from up to 35 feet away, and sizzle a threatening person long enough that the cops could subdue her completely. I'm sure they had some Tasers in the fucking POLICE STATION. Has everyone forgotten that Tasers exist? There's no need to subdue a teen girl wielding a knife by shooting her multiple times. FFS, they also could have used a blast of pepper spray or even some rubber bullets. Which they probably have somewhere in the POLICE. STATION.

Shooting her would be a justified act of self-defense for ordinary Joe Civilian, of whom we have no expectation of professional training in dealing with threats, and who probably does not have a supply of Tasers, pepper spray, or rubber bullets just sitting around his garage.

Shooting a knife-wielding scrawny kid is NOT justifiably self-defense when the public has hired you to protect them, and paid for your expensive, professional training in human threat management. It's not self-defense when you've been trained and drilled in how to aim a gun to wound and disable instead of kill, and when you have an entire arsenal of lethal force alternatives at your disposal.

It's not self-defense. It's lazy, careless incompetence that evolves naturally from a culture that tolerates lazy, careless incompetence and labels it "heroism" and "sacrifice."

[Catatafish]

I agree with all of this save for the "how to aim a gun to wound and disable instead of kill." That's largely a fallacy. Cops are taught to shoot center mass because it's the largest target area that will have the highest likelihood of putting down an assailant. That's no different from what you or I are taught at the range or a combat course.

What's absolutely different is everything else you point out. These are professionals ostensibly trained at great taxpayer cost to manage and de-escalate threats and who have access to numerous means of subduing individuals without killing them. Why no one draws their Tazer is beyond me in these situations when you have multiple officers.

[mad.casual]

Why no one draws their Tazer is beyond me in these situations when you have multiple officers.

IMO, the fact that there is so seldom a designated shooter and/or so frequently a hail of gunfire shows that these asshats are less prepared than your average homeowner, prepper, or 'gun nut'.

Four shots from three officers is not an organized or de-escalated response. If the officers were truly caught off guard, in their own house, by a teenage girl weilding a knife. Policies need to be re-examined.

[UCrawford]

If the officers were truly caught off guard, in their own house, by a teenage girl weilding a knife. Policies need to be re-examined.

So you're saying that it's a common occurrence for people to walk into a police station, wielding a weapon, and threatening police officers?

Because if it isn't, I think it's pretty unreasonable to say they have no reason to be caught off-guard. You get caught off-guard by the unexpected...uncommon events are generally unexpected.

[wwhorton]

Are you saying that it's unreasonable to expect police to be trained to deal with armed suspects? Because it seems like you're saying that America's police stations are less secure than your average Dairy Queen. For that matter, you're expecting less from a trio of police than from late-night convenience store clerks.

[mad.casual]

So you're saying that it's a common occurrence for people to walk into a police station, wielding a weapon, and threatening police officers?

You've never been taken in to police custody or had to retrieve anyone from police custody have you?

If a teenage girl with a knife was a considerable threat, even with the element of surprise, for your average police department; I loathe to think what your average group of Jihadis with AK-47s and incendiary vests or your freak 'active shooter' could achieve.

Maybe the officers should hire doormen from the local bars and clubs who have to deal with lightly armed individuals without killing them, relatively open-handedly.

[buybuydandavis]

Bouncers probably don't kill every dog that makes them feel uneasy either.

They're peasants too, and can't just go around killing peasants with impunity.

[buybuydandavis]

Tazers?

How about their billy clubs? How about a chair?

With all the weapons, armor, and personnel available at a fucking police station, this is just a sign that the lives of peasants aren't worth squat.

If they're going to tell us that their police force can't defend themselves from a 90 lb girl in their own fucking house without killing her, they all need to be fired today.

[Clich? Bandit]

I want to see common sense Nut Punch regulations. ENB has no nuts so clearly postings by the Nut Challeneged should be restricted to non-Nut Punch topics.

[Raston Bot]

The "cry for help" was the previous time(s!) she attempted suicide. Police station lobby? Let's see the video.

[Ken Shultz]

Yeah, it looks like suicide by cop to me.

She'd made several suicide attempts before, and that didn't work.

Killing yourself is harder than people think. Every bit of your instinct is geared towards survival. Killing yourself is certainly harder than quitting smoking. Anybody can quit smoking for a minute. To successfully commit suicide, all you have to do is get over that instinctive survival hump once--for a minute--and people still typically make several attempts before they're successful.

Suicide by cop is probably easier than other forms of suicide. You don't have to beat that survival instinct to kill yourself--you don't have to pull the trigger yourself. You just have to get the courage up to threaten the life of a cop, and the cop takes care of the rest.

I don't know what cops are supposed to do when someone wants the cops to shoot them and threatens the cops with a knife to provoke them to shoot. But if someone is absolutely intent on provoking the cops to shoot, ...

I wonder if she left a note.

This is a terrible tragedy, but I wouldn't count on this to serve as an excellent example of police brutality.

[HeteroPatriarch]

If she'd left a note, it would've been the first thing published. It might still be published, but it will probably be in a cop's handwriting.

[Zeb]

If she was a minor, they might not publish any note or video. Not sure how that works.

[R C Dean]

I find the notion of dead people maintaining a right to privacy to be puzzling, to say the least.

[Free Society]

Clearly you've never been killed by auto-erotic asphyxiation.

[gaoxiaen]

I always thought that heroin overdose would be the best method. I'l have to reconsider that.

[Johnny Bravo]

I find the notion of dead people maintaining a right to privacy to be puzzling, to say the least.

It could be for the privacy of the family.

[RCJP]

Please cite for us a single instance of a suicide note being published by law enforcement after a suicide, especially "first thing."

I can think of one time, a few weeks ago in San Francisco, and that was a note addressed to the officers who were going to kill the decedent, and it was released by the family.

[buybuydandavis]

"This is a terrible tragedy, but I wouldn't count on this to serve as an excellent example of police brutality."

It wasn't an example of brutality.

Just a callous disregard for the life of a peasant, seasoned with a good bit of incompetence and cowardice.

[Paul.]

Boy, this police violence thing sure got hip, didn't it?

[Spencer]

bandwagon fans.

[R C Dean]

Hard to top Anonymous on this:

"We ask you what kind of people you hire as a police officer that can't take a knife from a small 17 year old girl?"

Good question. Multiple, perhaps armored officers? The tape of the lobby (and you know there is one) could answer this one, depending on how shit went down.

But, keep in mind, these aren't (theoretically) average joes going about their daily routine. These are (allegedly) highly trained professionals. A situation where you or I might justifiably shoot shouldn't necessarily justify a shooting by highly trained professionals.

We ask you why are your officer's carrying tazors if they will only reach for their guns first?

My first question as well. If there were ever a situation tailor made for less-lethal tazers, this would be it. Does the PD have them? Did any of the cops who killed her have one? If so, why weren't they used?

To the citizens of America it looks as if police are trained to kill and not to serve and protect us.

Indeed it does. This may turn out to be a good shoot, but I have no reason to assume it is, just because it was cops pulling the trigger.

[Spencer]

I think anonymous is a joke- but it's a good question.

[HeteroPatriarch]

Why would the police station be recorded? Police have a right to privacy, you know!

[Charles Easterly]

I know you jest, but I would think that the lobby, being a public space, would have one or more cameras. According to the article to which Ms. Nolan Brown provided a link, the lobby was empty, young Ms. Coignard used a lobby phone to ask for officers to be sent to her, and when they arrived she pulled out a weapon and threatened them.

Video would certainly provide better context for this tradgedy.

[R C Dean]

I will be completely shocked if that lobby isn't under constant video surveillance.

Now, whether the system was "working", time will tell.

I note that the Rangers are investigating, which means we'll probably get a decent investigation, anyway. I wouldn't want tell a Ranger that my video system mysteriously malfunctioned right when things were getting interesting.

[Paul.]

This is where a mysterious two minutes of video will be carefully edited out by mistake.

[Harold Falcon]

"It appears the recording devices were malfunctioning at the time of the incident."

[Cloudbuster]

I blame Nixon.

[Bill Dalasio]

I have an even better question than Anonymous. Why didn't the bastards just use the jedi mind trick? If they'd used the jedi mind trick, the poor girl wouldn't have even gotten shocked.

[Paul.]

We're talking about police officers here. Mind and "trick" are two things that really don't enter the equation.

[mad.casual]

The Jedi were very selective of talent, cultivated a culture of peace and order, were consistently cool under pressure, overwhelmingly defensive, and, aside from notable exceptions, made considerable efforts to take their enemies/prisoners/criminals alive.

I see officers and Jedi at nearly opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Bobarian (hyphenated-american)]

The tape of the lobby (and you know there iswas one)

It's current existence may be entirely dependent on what it contained.

[sarcasmic]

If it contradicted the sworn testimony of those fine officers, then it will be discovered that there was a malfunction.

[The Last American Hero]

Tazers, mace, flashlight, billy club all would have been legit options before pulling out a gun.

[The Laconic]

A situation where you or I might justifiably shoot shouldn't necessarily justify a shooting by highly trained professionals.

That's what I don't get.

What if I were highly trained in martial arts and handguns, but not a police officer? If I were in that position, why would I be expected to use nonlethal force? Is the difference that I'm getting paid on one case and not the other?

[Mark22]

These are (allegedly) highly trained professionals.

Alleged by who? And what does it matter who alleges what?

In reality, they are out of shape blue collar workers who couldn't get a better job than working for the police. And whining about their inadequacies isn't going to improve things.

[buybuydandavis]

"To the citizens of America it looks as if police are trained to kill and not to serve and protect us."

Police, like all of our rulers, serve and protect themselves first.

[bleat]

And one can't help but wonder why three cops, in the middle of their own lobby, were unable to subdue a knife-wielding teen girl without the use of lethal force...

"We ask you what kind of people you hire as a police officer that can't take a knife from a small 17 year old girl?" they ask.

Wouldn't a feminist consider this statement and this question sexist. Oh, no, for this story we want to manipulate men's socially enhanced instincts to protect women. Don't worry though, the next post will call for women to be allowed into the infantry or how the time has come for a woman president.

[Elizabeth Nolan Brown]

admirable trolling, but no cigar

[Steve G]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlpBO3L6UJo

[bleat]

Okay, a woman with a knife is never a serious threat to a man unless she is in the military but only when in combat. You will have to forgive me for the confusion that I am inflicted with sometimes. To be fair I was watching the Hunger Games last night.

[Zeb]

A lot of combat these days is conducted using knives?

[Clich? Bandit]

C'mon ENB he at least deserves a Sancho Panza Lancero...they are two bucks and pretty decent.

[Bill Dalasio]

Ms. Brown speaks for Anonymous now?

[bleat]

Ms. Brown speaks for Anonymous now?

And one can't help but wonder why three cops, in the middle of their own lobby, were unable to subdue a knife-wielding teen girl without the use of lethal force.

This is Ms. Brown's statement. Maybe we shouldn't take it seriously since she is after all, just a girl.

[Zeb]

Yeah, everyone who identifies as feminist, whether they are libertarian or hardcore Marxist believes exactly the same things about everything.

Moron.

Find me one person who isn't a raving loony who claims that women are not, on average, less physically strong than men.

[bleat]

Yeah, everyone who identifies as feminist, whether they are libertarian or hardcore Marxist believes exactly the same things about everything.

Moron.

What about people who imply that every teen girl with a knife is not much of a threat to a man? Are they also a moron?

[The Late P Brooks]

And one can't help but wonder why three cops, in the middle of their own lobby, were unable to subdue a knife-wielding teen girl without the use of lethal force.

That's what that pepper spray is for.

Fucking baboons.

[Bobarian (hyphenated-american)]

Pepper spray is for torturing suspects who have already surrendered, and are cuffed.

Silly Rabbit.

[KevinP]

Pepper spray indoors?

Really?

[Fizban]

Airing out the lobby later any less difficult than mopping up the blood and guts from the shooting.
Unless this girl had the knife to the throat of one of the officers they should not have had a fear of death which is the requiremet for me to pull a fireball outta my ass and torch someone.

[SugarFree]

She just would have been raped in college anyway.

[R C Dean]

Good point. Probably why she killed herself. I mean, after reading America's Colleges: Rape Factories That Every Woman Should Totally Go To, it might have looked like the better option.

[SugarFree]

She rolled the 1-in-5-sided dice and came up rape-eyes.

[Catatafish]

I really felt awful about laughing out loud when I read this comment.

Okay now I'm better.

[prolefeed]

An officer's right to self-defense is absolutely not the same as everyone else's. An officer's right to self-defense supersedes your right to self-defense. An officer's right includes a right to aggress, has a lower standard of proof and a huge amount of institutional and personal preference from the judicial system.

You're confusing "rights" with "powers". Everyone has exactly the same rights, and those rights are not granted by government. Among those rights is the right to not be aggressed against or physically harmed.

Police have assumed additional powers that they use to take away our rights. But, despite that usurpation, they still retain the right to not be harmed by other individuals.

[Bobarian (hyphenated-american)]

Somebody's sarcasm detector seems to be malfunctioning.

[DrGonzoAtNight]

Yep. Mental illness is an offense punishable by death in this country. You didn't know?

[CthulhuForPresident]

Get home safe at the end of your shift!!1!

[The Laconic]

If she had walked into a library brandishing a knife, and a patron shot her dead, would you be saying the same thing?

I'm just asking questions.

[SugarFree]

At least there would be some sort of skepticism about whether or not she should have be shot.

[The Laconic]

Agreed. And there should be.

I am not at all pro-cop. I just worry that talk about holding cops to higher professional standards than the rest of us obscures the much stronger objection that they should be held to the same moral and legal standards as the rest of us.

That is, while it was unprofessional for them to shoot a knife-wielding teen girl, I'm not sure it was wrong for them to do so. It depends on the details, of course, and I don't automatically trust the cops' story.

[SugarFree]

I think the problem is harden confirmation bias. I've seen too many times where cops have lied to believe anything they say without some sort of evidence and most people seem to believe even the filmiest stories they come up with.

Without footage, I'm going to and will continue to assume the worst.

[gaoxiaen]

Yep.

[Mark22]

I think the problem is harden confirmation bias. I've seen too many times where cops have lied to believe anything they say without some sort of evidence

No, your problem is the base rate fallacy: you see tons of stories of bad cops, so you assume that a large percentage of cops must be bad.

and most people seem to believe even the filmiest stories they come up with

I think if you walk in anywhere threatening people with a knife, you risk getting shot or killed.

[mad.casual]

I just worry that talk about holding cops to higher professional standards than the rest of us obscures the much stronger objection that they should be held to the same moral and legal standards as the rest of us.

I'm pro-capital punishment and I can't count the number of libertarians who would argue the point based on the premise that the state kills innocent people. What's weird is they will turn around and gladly hand over this 'responsibility' to police officers unquestioningly.

If we have sin eaters on native soil, it is them. They should be held to a higher moral and professional standard. Otherwise, they're just thugs and hired assassins.

If the police shoot someone, 12 Angry People should be required to sit down and decide whether they deserved to die.

[Free Society]

Well they do, except it's usually a grand jury not a trial jury and grand juries are creatures of the prosecutor.

[mad.casual]

Well they do sometimes, except it's usually a grand jury not a trial jury and grand juries are creatures of the prosecutor.

Fixed the former. The latter, while not ideal, is the fault of the community at large, IMO.

[Free Society]

I was in a Grand Jury once, very recently. The prosecutor implicitly threatened to charge me with contempt if I didn't agree to charge a guy with possession of marijuana. (On the basis that during the selection process, I didn't declare my position on the drug war in full.)

While I have no doubt that the moral stupidity of most people is a big problem with grand juries, undoubtedly the biggest problem with grand juries is their servile relationship to the prosecution.

[Free Society]

I was in a Grand Jury once, very recently. The prosecutor implicitly threatened to charge me with contempt if I didn't agree to charge a guy with possession of marijuana. (On the basis that during the selection process, I didn't declare my position on the drug war in full.)

While I have no doubt that the moral stupidity of most people is a big problem with grand juries, undoubtedly the biggest problem with grand juries is their servile relationship to the prosecution.

[Mark22]

What's weird is they will turn around and gladly hand over this 'responsibility' to police officers unquestioningly.

How do you go from "holding cops to a higher professional standard" to "handing over responsibility"?

I think I have a right to use deadly force to defend myself against a 17 year old knife wielding girl. I might choose to try and find some less drastic way of getting out of it, but I should be under no legal obligation to do so. I think police should have exactly the same right, no more and no less.

If we have sin eaters on native soil, it is them. They should be held to a higher moral and professional standard. Otherwise, they're just thugs and hired assassins.

That's the same kind of idiotic drivel we get from progressives.

What we should actually have is a choice in the matter. That is, people choose the kind of police they want and have. If you don't understand what that means, read Rothbard for one idea (there are other ways).

What we don't need is Top Men deciding what the correct "moral and professional standards" are and then imposing those standards on everybody else.

[Free Society]

For a guy whose all over this thread defending the moral integrity of a tax funded professional class with serious institutional incentives to abuse, it's interesting that you'd cite Rothbard.

[Mark22]

How do you think private security would work in a privately governed neighborhood? You'd have an HOA voting to raise association fees to hire the private security force, and you either pay them or you leave. The HOA would make an exclusive contract with a security company and ban other security companies from the property, and home owners and people stepping onto the property would agree to indemnify the security force against a wide range of mistakes and violence. The outcome would be pretty much the same as local police are now. It's not what Rothbard envisions, but having lived in various private developments, I assure you that's the way it would be set up, and the only way to prevent that would be to impose rules that limit the freedom for people to choose to set up their affairs that way.

Your beef isn't with a "tax funded professional class with serious institutional incentives to abuse", it's with the fact that your neighbors are idiots who like a "tax funded professional class with serious institutional incentives to abuse".

I think there are lots of other benefits to privatizing police in the way Rothbard imagines. But it just wouldn't address this particular issue because private security would end up behaving pretty much the same way as police.

[mad.casual]

If you don't understand what that means, read Rothbard for one idea (there are other ways).

But if the suspect is not convicted, then that means that the police have beaten and tortured an innocent man, and that they in turn must be put into the dock for criminal assault

-Rothbard

Has she been convicted of something posthumously?

[Mark22]

Rothbard's comment is about the situation when police exercise their power against non-violent individuals: searches, arrests, imprisonment. Yes, I agree, they should be held responsible for that; it's one reason I prefer private security forces.

But in this case, the girl threatened them with a deadly weapon, on police property no less, and police had the right to self defense, just like anybody else.

I'm not defending police violence in general, I'm saying that when you look at these cases from a libertarian perspective, you need to ask yourself: how would this work with libertarian-style private security? The fact is that a lot of local policing would be just as violent and intrusive under libertarianism as it is under statism.

That's not a criticism of libertarianism; there are big benefits to private security instead of tax-funded police, but it's important not to fall into the trap of believing that libertarianism produces a utopia. Government (in particular, local government) really does often reflect what people actually would choose in a libertarian society anyway, depressing as that may be.

[izzyabby]

I truly want, with all my being, to support our law enforcement officers, understanding the dangerous job for what it is, and then...something like this happens. I cannot imagine ANY scenario where 3 cops draw down and in cold blood, shoot a small, young girl, knife or no knife. Surely it's on tape.

[John Galt]

Law enforcement officer comes nowhere near making the top ten list of deadliest jobs in America.

[John Galt]

The 10 Deadliest Jobs:

1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers

[AD-RtR/OS!]

Why, because in close-quarters combat, a knife will do a lot of damage in any struggle to subdue whomever is wielding it.
SOP is to never let anyone with a knife to approach closer than about 15' (if possible).
Remember, "There's no rules in a knife-fight!"

[steve baker]

They should have at least one rule: No guns allowed.

[John Galt]

What prevents me from understanding events like these is my confidence that, even as an old man, all by my lonesome and without any weapons I could easily take a knife away from a little girl without resorting to killing her. Once again; what exactly is it we're getting for spending billions to train mostly very large men and women to perform our law enforcement for us? The more that's revealed about what really happens, the crappier the return on our dollar we appear to be receiving.

[Free Society]

It's not about how much we spend, it's about how we spend it. In this case, the money is taken from consumers at gun point and distributed among the jurisdictional monopolies of law enforcement. Naturally, consumer choice is not even a consideration that plays into how this product is delivered.

[Migrant Log Picker]

This

[Slocum]

About the same thing happened here a couple of months ago (although the woman with the knife was 40 rather than 17):

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-....._name.html

[John Galt]

It makes me feel thankful that the area of the nation I live in has completely reasonable and very professional law enforcement. The only downside is now that I've found a great place like this moving somewhere else seems a little too risky. A lot of totally berserk, out of control, insane and dangerous "law enforcement" occurring around the nation.

[jammyjones268]

my buddy's sister-in-law makes $68 /hour on the computer . She has been laid off for seven months but last month her payment was $21909 just working on the computer for a few hours. pop over to this site........

http://www.Jobsyelp.com

[Reverend Draco]

When I was in my late 20s, I was witness to a 200+lb woman, high on meth, attacking her husband with a butcher knife in each hand.

I, with no "professional training," was able to disarm her of both knives, without shooting her - without harming her at all - without her husband being harmed, and without being harmed myself. . .

That one or more cops can't disarm a knife-wielding girl without shooting her multiple times is testament to the cowardice, the smallness, of modern police.

If this girl had been a member of my family, all three cops would quietly disappear one night, never to be seen or heard from again.

[Mark22]

That one or more cops can't disarm a knife-wielding girl without shooting her multiple times is testament to the cowardice, the smallness, of modern police.

That is probably true. So why don't you sign up and give us better police enforcement?

[mad.casual]

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/of.....auses.html

Causes of Law Enforcement Deaths
Over the Past Decade (2004-2013)

Shot: 549
Auto-crashes: 434 (distinct from struck by vehicle)
Stabbed: 14!!!!

Some completely unrelated facts;
The US averages just 19 shark attacks each year and one shark-attack fatality every two years. Meanwhile, in the coastal U.S. states alone, lightning strikes and kills more than 37 people each year.

[Live Free or Die]

Same thing happened in my town of Sandpoint, Idaho- 3 cops shot a small woman (Jeanetta Riley) to death who only had a knife. Unsurprisingly, nothing happened to the cops. They shot her right in front of the hospital, where her husband was bringing her to get mental help.

[Joao]

What? Texas... again?

The cult of the lawman class is strong there.

[Howdy]

We can only hope she didn't breed. Her parents were obvious failures and it's too bad they were allowed to breed. I would have used a Taser. Don't know why they decided bullets were a better option. Especially since she is neither black nor a mexican.

[maryrprice45]

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[KevinP]

I am a pistol instructor.

It is extremely dangerous to try to disarm someone with a knife. There is a rule of thumb that a person with a knife can cover a distance of 21 feet before you can draw and fire on them. This has been empirically tested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

I am no fan of police overreaction and trigger happiness. However, if I encountered someone in my own home or in a confined space within 21 feet of me and if they had a knife, I would draw on them, and if they advanced any further towards me, I would shoot them. I cannot fault police officers placed in the same situation.

[wwhorton]

Granted, but three cops. Three. Even if this teenage loony-bird had spent every year of her life training as a super-secret ninja assassin, she cannot close with and kill three armed men before they can react. And this is assuming the most extreme circumstance, i.e. that the three police were completely unaware of her presence and she had an actual running start. Per the article, she was in an enclosed lobby, and had used a courtesy phone to ask to speak with an officer.

[mad.casual]

I am a pistol instructor.

Really? As a pistol instructor, what's your take on the fatal funnel and/or wisdom of three men discharging firearms in a closed space? You think there was an explicit point man or that it was decided ad hoc? Either way, what do you think it says about these, 'professionals' that all three officers discharged?

There are mountains of evidence about which techniques and procedures to be employed and when. The overwhelming majority of law enforcement agencies cherry-pick these in deliberate favor of officer safety. Hilariously, they don't see how the use of these techniques work out for the forces (occupying or other) that employ(ed) them.

However, if I encountered someone in my own home or in a confined space within 21 feet of me and if they had a knife, I would draw on them

By your own data/admission, this is the wrong response. Within 21 ft., if they've drawn and you haven't, it's already too late. The best you can do is buy the people around you time to flee or come to your assistance.

You misconstrue various points about the Tueller Drill and disregard some other aspects of the handgunning and CQB canon. Extrapolating your first-person life-or-death tactics to team defense/retreival tactics fucks up both your first-person and the team tactics.

[C. S. P. Schofield]

Not a big cop fan. I think a cop serving a no-knock warrant should do so in the firm knowledge that if he is at the wrong house, or it develops that the suspect stopped living there a while back that cops is going to be facing breaking and entering charges.

That said, if a 17-year-old went into a gun shop, threatened three random citizens with a knife, and was shot by the general sense of the room, I would call that an example of self defense.

Should police be trained well enough that we could ask them to take the chance of disarming the girl in this situation? Arguably. But they aren't. They would have to not only get the training, but would have to practice several times a week, if not daily, to get good enough. And while I'm sure that many police departments have gyms where such practice could take place, the clips would have to do it on their own time. The taxpayers, bless our black hearts, won't pay for it.

So; not a big fan of cops. I think they get away with a very great deal that they should not. But in this instance, absent more damning detail, I can't say they were in the wrong.

[mad.casual]

That said, if a 17-year-old went into a gun shop, threatened three random citizens with a knife, and was shot by the general sense of the room, I would call that an example of self defense.

Three random citizens in a gun shop, de facto do not constitute a police force.

If we're going to pay them to work together as a force to serve the public, they should perform better than a collection of three random citizens.

[bravow]

I conceal carry and this is quite understandable. The Teuller Drill shows an individual can cover 21 feet with a knife in less time than a trained individual can draw and shoot (1.5 seconds). This distance has since been extended to 31 feet by federal training standards.
It takes a trained individual 2 seconds to see, evaluate, and send that information to the appropriate muscles. This is why criminals are shot after they are rendered ineffective in a shooting situation and why there are a lot of shots fired in a multiple cop vs individual situation.
I just took an intro tactical knife fighting class (and will be taking the next level class when offered) and, at close range, a knife is so much more deadly than a handgun. Wounds are vomit inducing brutal. With excellent trauma care the likelihood of surviving a shooting is 90%, a knife is 70%. The biggest take away from the class is no one in their right mind would let a knife wielding individual close with them by choice.

[Migrant Log Picker]

Hey moron, it was a teenage girl that weighed a hundred pounds, if you can't deal with that I'm guessing you aren't nearly as tough as you think you are. Fuck off.

[Migrant Log Picker]

As an aside, idiots like you are why CC is under assault by progs. I'm good with it. Dolts like you don't make good case for gun rights...again Fuck Off.

[mad.casual]

I just took an intro tactical knife fighting class (and will be taking the next level class when offered) and, at close range, a knife is so much more deadly than a handgun.

That's just a knife vs. just a handgun. This was three officers, possibly body armor, possibly not. Probably three tazers, probably three batons, three pepper spray canisters, three flashlights, sets of cuffs, anywhere between what, 3 and 6 sidearms?

Since when did the lethality of a/the tool become intrinsic to the tool itself (or worse, the vomit-inducing ability of said tool)? This is classic 2nd Am., the tool is no more deadly or effective than the person brandishing it or persons deploying them.

[buybuydandavis]

How about a group of armed and trained professionals against a 90 lb girl?

This distance has since been extended to 31 feet by federal training standards.

Cause the peasants smell bad, and you don't want any of that funk getting on you when you kill them.

[Bubba Jones]

While I wish they had used a taser, this incident does not offend me.

[Migrant Log Picker]

They gunned down a teenage girl that weighed 100 pounds, are you saying their lives were in danger?

That is absurd.

[D. M. Michell]

It offends me that the average policeman today is such a coward that he feels his life is in danger every time he goes to work. I don't care if the girl would have cut me, I could have disarmed her without resorting to killing her. A totally sane person does not show up at a police station wielding a knife.

[Achmed]

Hmmn . . . The police are out of control in some areas, I agree. However based on your comments you clearly have never actually faced deadly violence. It's not "the girl cutting me" like you accidentally nicked your finger chopping an apple, it's potentially major leakage of arteries that supply your body. Violent use of a knife is a horrible nasty thing. Watch some video of actual violent encounters before you judge.

[mad.casual]

Violent use of a knifespoon is a horrible nasty thing. Watch some video of actual violent encounters before you judge.

+1 assault knife

[Cloudbuster]

I don't know about D.M. Michell but I have faced knife-wielding opponents both in real life and in training. She was a smallish 17-year-old nerd girl, not a trained knife-fighter or brawler. I've disarmed a teenage boy with a knife before. I've been cut and bitten to the bone (not in that instance). So when I say that the cops have a duty to put themselves at risk to avoid shooting a poor deranged young girl, I'm not suggesting they do anything I haven't done. Except I was alone and unarmed when I had to face a knife-wielding teen.

[Praveen R.]

It's like cops do not know how to deescalate situations anymore. Or even back off a few feet and find temporary possible cover where they can push a bench or a char towards the girl to slow her down before they decide they have no choice but to fire at her. Or tase her. Or shoot her in the leg. They have 3 of them. If one misses her leg, the other wont.

[heartburn]

If Anonymous wants to be taken seriously, they should hack up a spellchecker.

[Septawn]

Mostly this just reminds me of one of my favorite internet videos of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFr30p0aZl0

[Suicidy]

I get very nervous about this story when I see Thinkprogress is involved.

[BigFish92672]

Same thing happened a couple years back, Orange County Sherif, I think. 8o pound, depressed teen with a screwdriver was murdered by two, large, costumed thugs. Even untrained, I could have held her off with a nightstick until you she got tired. Don't call the po po until you've googled, "We don't have time for this."

[wwhorton]

In contrast: http://www.wbal.com/article/11.....dentified.

Never thought I'd post a Baltimore article as an example of a cop doing the right thing, but there it is. For the impatient or click-impaired, a beat cop was walking through a SW Baltimore (that's the really, really shitty part) neighborhood as part of a new neighborhood foot patrol thing. He hears some folks standing outside yelling for help. He runs up, finds out there's a guy inside at a toddler's birthday party waving a knife around threatening people. He goes in, tells the guy to drop the knife, dude refused, cop shot him.

One cop, house full of people, particularly children, and a guy actively threatening those people with a knife? In this case, barring some really bizarre plot twist, I believe this was a good shoot and the officer should be commended.

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[D. M. Michell]

How come I haven't heard about this on the main-stream news outlets? Oh wait, she wasn't black.

[Achmed]

I have nothing but respect for Reason and am a subscriber. However the author here needs to learn something about self-defense first. A grown 17 year old conveying intent to use force with a knife is threatening deadly force and it is very likely that response with a firearm was entirely appropriate. I was not there (neither was the author) - but there's a common misperception among people who primarily get their info from TV that somehow a firearm is a higher level of deadly force. Wrong - people rushing you with a knife, a bat, or a pipe wrench within a reasonably close range are all deadly force. Cutting open major arteries is just as deadly if not more so than poking 9mm holes in people.

[mad.casual]

people rushing you with a knife, a bat, or a pipe wrench within a reasonably close range are all deadly force

+1 She's coming right for us!

[buybuydandavis]

A building full of cops can't protect themselves from a 90 pound girl without killing her.

They should be fired for incompetence, if nothing else.

[Fizban]

Shall we then allow the police to strap only a Leatherman to their sides and keep all the firearms in the trunk?
Yeah, didn't think so.....

[Praveen R.]

We need BILLY JACK!!!!one of those slow roundhouse kicks and the chick is disarmed.

[skunkman]

Where is the outrage? Where is the looting? Where are the famous, beautiful people speaking out? Where is Al Sharpton? Yes, this country has a problem with police brutality. And the reason is won't be easily solved is because there are more people that want to ration the cases of injustice to the ones that fit into their limited, race based, categories than there are people that really want to address all excessive force issues.

[buybuydandavis]

Protesting a young white girl getting killed by cops doesn't serve the purpose of dividing the country by race, and so will receive no air time from the Progressive Theocracy.

[MSimon]

In a secret trial (grand jury) the officers were found not culpable. Besides the knife the girl was reaching for her waistband.

[Dngrwill]

Really tired of the ignorant comments on this blog. Love Reason ... but sometimes ... If a person is standing 16 feet or less away from you, they can close that distance and stab you before you can unholster and shoot.

When you're in close quarters with an individual with a knife, if you have the opportunity, you shoot them. Otherwise you will be engaged in hand to hand and then risk serious injury to yourself.

16 or 26 doesn't matter in a situation like this. You don't pull a knife ... threaten with a knife .... cops or anyone especially in close quarters. Stop blaming the cops. They didn't threaten her. She came into the department threatening them with a knife.

[Fanglemeister]

So mentally imbalanced teens wishing to commit copicide in Texas are shot by three cops rather than just one or two? Cool - everything in Texas really is bigger!

[dude_you_all_crazy]

Did any of you all read any source material other than this drivel? Do an ounce of research? You SJW's are just so completely blind to an alternate view that people mock you. The "tazor" malfunctioned. You wanna see the video, you morons?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e13_1422494364
Or read a two paragraph article that has more info than this 7 paragraph one does?
http://www.cbs19.tv/story/2796.....cher-knife

And further more, you walk into a fucking police station with "I have a gun" written on your hand and charge a cop with a knife, you are one, an idiot, and two, a coward for wanting to commit suicide and making some one do what you're too chicken shit to do yourself.
TL:DR? The author did zero research, the people commenting are SJW fucktards and weigh all the evidence before you end up looking like a moron.

[dude_you_all_crazy]

Also, I created this account merely to express my appreciation of what a bunch of twits you all are. I have no plans of ever coming back here again, so any comment back to me will be in vain, though surely you idiots will try. I hope the author finds a better calling in life, because it's painfully obvious writing isn't it. Good luck to you all, and better luck to your offspring and the rest of this once great nation for having to put up with your shit.

[Praveen R.]

WATCH THE VIDEO before anyone makes new comments. The girl was already FULLY RESTRAINED twice and both times, the cop doesn't even bother to check for weapons. The cops should be fired for pure incompetence. And even when the girl charges, the cops had plenty of chances to buy time and space and shoot in a less deadly area and if they missed once, they could have fired again.

[Praveen R.]

THis is an even more mind boggling case even if, fortunately, the outcome was not severe and resulted in no injuries.

An old black veteran was at an intersection with a golf club as a walking stick, minding his own businesss. A lesbian seattle cop decides to mess with this guy , who knows for what reason. Then all of a sudden, this stupid woman decides to claim that he was swinging that club at her as a weapon even though if he really had, she would still be nowhere in danger as she was not even close to the guy(the fact is he did no such thing). She arrests the guy, lies about it, despite stupidly knowing that her dashcam video showed no such thing.

if that happened to me often, I don't know if I could really be that patient with the cop. I might have really given her the finger and waved the club in frustration and probably be shot. I am glad the guy didn't lose his temper fully.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....golf-club#

[Free Run 2 Femme Pas cher]

This is a dreadful facts