Tonight on The Independents: Gruber? I Just Met Her! Plus Bill Nye the Science Guy, Robert Bryce on Keystone, Kmele Foster on the USA Freedom Act, Michael Weiss on ISIS, After-show, and More!

Tonight's live episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, repeats three hours later) begins with this fun video of then-Senator Barack Obama name-checking Jonathan Gruber as among the health care economists "I've stolen ideas from liberally":

Which is a bit different than President Obama's characterization of the now-disgraced Gruber at a press conference Sunday as "some advisor who never worked on our staff" and whose opinion "I completely disagree" with. When Obama was asked at that conference whether he misled the American people to get his signature bill passed, he replied "No, I did not." Which definitely comes as news to us who were paying attention in real time.

Party Panelists Guy Benson (Townhall Political Editor) and Will Rahn (Daily Beast senior editor) help sort through that mess, plus the pre-emptive state of emergency in Ferguson, Bill Cosby's sexual assault allegations, and the Drug Enforcement Administration's sudden interest in football locker rooms.

Bill Nye the Science Guy will be on to talk about his new book, Undeniable: Evolution and the Science of Creation. Foreign policy analyst Michael Weiss will talk about the latest ISIS beheading. Author/energy analyst Robert Bryce will discuss the Keystone pipeline. And Kmele Foster will give the pros and cons of the controversial, surveillance-reforming USA Freedom Act, which may go up for a Senate vote as soon as this week.

Online-only aftershow begins at foxbusiness.com/independents just after 10. Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, hashtag us at #TheIndependents, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

Comments

[Sevo]

"When Obama was asked at that conference whether he misled the American people to get his signature bill passed, he replied "No, I did not.""

Right:
"If you like your coverage..."

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Watched 'Meatballs' earlier today and was reminded how much I hate summer camp movies; especially Canadian summer camp movies.

Except 'Friday the 13th'. Everyone dies in that one.

[Sevo]

Was it Thanksgiving in Canukistan today?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I have a flexible work schedule.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Isn't Canadian summer camp that one weekend of the year where it stops snowing?

[Sevo]

A friend from AK mentioned that Summer happened on a Saturday this year, so they had a picnic.

[Hyperion]

Stop the Canadian hate! They have a whole damn month named August when the ground thaws out down to almost 2 inches deep!

[AlmightyJB]

"Everyone dies in that one."

Gee thanks I've had that DVRed for 30 years and was just getting ready to watch it. I guess I'll just delete it and watch Old Yeller instead.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"Bill Nye the Science Guy will be on to talk about his new book..."

Over/under on the smug scale?

[BigT]

Bill Nye the "science" guy

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Big Bird left on the rotisserie a little too long...

[AlmightyJB]

Yeah, I hope somebody fucks with him. He needs that in his life.

[Paul.]

He needs to stick to blowing things up with Vinegar and baking soda.

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

Bill Nye: "What if we just had this really cool thing that doesn't exist in reality that could serve our energy needs? Then we wouldn't have any use for things that actually exist, like oil and stuff."

Yea, I'm looking forward to this.

[Vulgar Madman]

Maybe he's thinking of that episode, of stargate he was in.

[Carl ?s the level]

Well, thanks Mark Ames.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Lena Dunham ?@lenadunham 37m37 minutes ago
"I am adult woman who writes a lot about sex for my job and I am still scandalized when Adam Levine sings about being "inside" someone."

Details
Lena Dunham ?@lenadunham 3h3 hours ago
Healthcare is a right not a privilege.Let's do like Scandinavia and give it to everyone.Til then,open enrollment at http://healthcare.gov !

https://twitter.com/

Jesus. Criss.

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

Let's do like Scandinavia

I got the "BUT SCANDINAVIA?!" argument from a proggie acquaintance a while back. To be honest, I don't know much about Scandinavia so I deflected it moved to something else. Would anyone care to explain the supposed merits of Scandinavian socialism?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The Scandinavian model is cracking.

Easy to coerce a few million homogeneous people into collectivism.

[PapayaSF]

Ever noticed that when progs talk about the wonders of socialism, they always point to tiny countries filled with white people? You'd think that with all their concern about diversity, they'd have some other examples. Are they racists, implying that only white people can do socialism correctly?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Lillyhammer gets into Norway very well!

[juris imprudent]

They have to deny the racism in which early Progressivism was rooted. Then they have to deny the racism that their inherited ideals still embody. The racism in Scandinavia (oh yes, you don't have to dig much to find it) - the socialist model should just make their heads explode.

But progressives are immune to cognitive dissonance.

[Jayburd]

I asked a German friend why they didn't seem worried about WWIII starting in the Balkans. He said most Germans didn't care, as long as Muslims were getting killed.

[John Titor]

Every time someone talks about Scandinavia being superior I like to recount my story of arguing with a couple Swedes in Stockholm over how they believed crime was high in America because of 'black genetics'.

[trshmnster the terrible]

Are they racists, implying that only white people can do socialism correctly?

I couldn't find a good reference because my searches were cluttered with huffpo spittle, but the original progressive era progressives actually believed this.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Hey, Thane wants you to email him.

[trshmnster the terrible]

I don't have Thane's email, but mine is trshmnstr (at) Gmail (dot) com

[Irish]

Ever noticed that when progs talk about the wonders of socialism, they always point to tiny countries filled with white people?

Yes. I've also noticed that people who believe in free markets can point to a host of non-white countries, including Hong Kong, Singapore, Chile, and Taiwan, in addition to white countries, like America, Britain, and New Zealand.

Free markets have been shown to work with every demographic in every part of the world. 'Social democracies' have been moderately successful in completely white countries in Northern Europe with populations under 10 million. Which of these do you want to stake your money on?

[Dweebston]

B-b-b-but Friedman advised Pinochet and doesn't that disprove the free market?

[cavalier973]

Hmmm...Hong Kong, Singapore, America, Britain, New Zealand. Why do I get the impression that these places have something in common?

[thom]

Progressives tend to infantalize non white countries, so the likes of Hong Kong, Singapore, Chile and Taiwan are simply 3rd World Countries where a group of elites have used the free market to increase inequality with the protection of US imperialism or something.

[Hyperion]

The demographics there are exactly like here. In truth they are the same everywhere. Ok, demographics do not really exist, they are like gender, a social construct only and a product of the patriarchy, and racist.

[Irish]

Scandinavia is a lily-white gated community that didn't have any immigration until recently and was completely culturally and ethnically homogenous. Also, the largest Scandinavian country has like 10 million people to America's 320 million.

Clearly they're identical situations and just importing Scandinavian policies will work wonders.

[Irish]

Also, America has a higher median income than Denmark, Sweden, and Finland. The only one of those northern European countries with a higher median income is Norway and that's entirely the result of oil money.

That means that for all their blather about wondrous Scandinavia, the average American is quite a bit wealthier than the average Scandinavian. Don't expect a prog to let these minor facts get in the way of their narrative.

[Heroic Mulatto]

That's not entirely true. Scandinavia has always had the Sami as a linguistic and ethnic minority that faced discrimination.

The more important thing is that Scandinavian "success" with social democracy was always more hype than reality. Take away the Pax Americana/NATO and see how they fare when they have to pay for their own protection against The Bear.

[Irish]

That's not entirely true. Scandinavia has always had the Sami as a linguistic and ethnic minority that faced discrimination.

You mean the group of people that your own link says amount to a total of 70,000 people in a peninsula of 20 million? Yeah, quite the sizeable minority group. I don't think you can quite compare them to the 20% of Americans of Hispanic origins or the 13% who are black.

I don't think a small band of northern Sweden reindeer herders who have been there for thousands of years quite compares to 40 million people who have moved to America from the second and third world in the last 50 years.

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

The Sami are a pretty damn solid argument against Scandinavian social democracy. They have a tiny minority that's been there longer than them and is even white, for the gods' sakes, and hey still can't help systematically oppressing them on the scale of the Native Americans. It's almost as though collectivism sucks for minorities because of structural problems.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Which is all true. You, however used the phrase "completely culturally and ethnically homogenous", which again is not true.

Even not counting the Sami, Scandinavian was dealing with issues of multilingualism in public schools, as one example, well before we had to think about it. Considering the movement of Danish, Swedish, and Norwegians between their various countries and their expectations of having their children educated in their particular dialect.

A lot of the (boring) literature I had to read about language planning and policy dealt with Scandinavian cases. And it's a BFD over there.

[Irish]

A lot of the (boring) literature I had to read about language planning and policy dealt with Scandinavian cases. And it's a BFD over there.

There's nothing funnier than internal squabbles that no one outside of a country can conceivably give a shit about. I wonder what foreigners think about regional feuds in America.

[Agammamon]

The merits of the Scandinavian system is that its pretty free-market in tooth and claw at the individual level, coupled with heavily redistributionist tax system.

IOW, its easy to start a business, easy to run one, easy to make money doing it - they just tax the fuck out of your income.

It'll never fly here because the system is so hands-off - not enough opportunities for 'Top Men' to tell you how to live your life.

[Irish]

IOW, its easy to start a business, easy to run one, easy to make money doing it - they just tax the fuck out of your income.

Is this true? They've got heavy government control of energy production and I can't imagine they've got that small a regulatory state. They are less leftist than American progressives believe (most economic freedom scales place every Scandinavian country in the top 25-30) but they're still pretty fucking statist at the regulatory level.

[Raven Nation]

When I was looking into this at a level to prep lectures (IOW - not deep but a variety of background readings), the general idea was that the Scandinavian countries deliberately refrained from nationalism or massive government involvement. As Agammamon notes, the idea was to allow for massively successful companies which could then be taxed. This was in contrast to, say, France, where a lot more nationalization took place.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Then they be wise.

[The_Millenial]

"There is an unfortunate tendency to associate the term "neoliberal" with right-wing political views. In fact, the quite liberal social democracies of northern Europe have been among the most aggressive neoliberal reformers. Indeed, according to the Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom, Denmark is the freest economy in the world in the average of the eight categories unrelated to size of government [defined as all government consumption and transfers]. The Nordic countries have begun to privatize many activities that government still performs in the United States. These include passenger rail, airports, air-traffic control, highways, postal services, fire departments, water systems, and public schools, among many others. These countries do have much larger and more comprehensive income-transfer programs than the United States has, but are not otherwise particularly socialist."

http://www.econlib.org/library.....alism.html

[JEP]

I had a friend make the argument that healthcare was a right and that birth control was preventive care.

I had a lot of fun watching her jump through hoops trying to explain why we should pay for people's preventive care when they repeatedly and knowingly engage in activity that puts them at risk of becoming pregnant - the thing they are trying to prevent.

And of course, since birth control is a right, I asked her if people had a right to have sex. She stumbled over that one, since if she said 'yes' she'd be advocating rape.

[PapayaSF]

She needs to understand the difference between positive and negative rights.

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

If progs could make that distinction, they would not be progs.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Click on the link and watch the tweets about rights. Good luck with that.

[JEP]

Yeah, her eyes started to glaze over when I started explaining that, so I tried to get her to bump into her own logically fallacy by asking her if food, water, and clothing are also rights.

She said 'yes', and then I tried to get her to see that if a person has an unalienable right to water, then they're inherently enslaving another person to acquire that water for them.

[juris imprudent]

I'm surprised she didn't slap you for your obvious hate and insensitivity.

[Emmerson Biggins]

no, she needs to understand that "positive rights" are oxymoronic bullshit.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Hoops.

[PapayaSF]

And a gray turtleneck! Positively Jobsian.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Grooooooo-BUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRR.

[PapayaSF]

"League of oily salamanders"? LOL

[Winston]

So they went to Warp 10?

[Fist of Etiquette]

If only it matters what the people like and don't like.

[Fist of Etiquette]

One has a button-down collar and the other no tie at all. I'm turning this off.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Everybody get up, it's time to slam now
We got a real jam goin' down
Welcome to the Space Jam
Here's your chance, do your dance at the Space Jam, alright

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

Kennedy's looking strangely fluorescent.

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

I'm getting a "naughty librarian" vibe.

[Agammamon]

Well, she pretty much always gives that off - more of a 'naughty professional' than a specific profession. I'm pretty sure she could pull off 'naughty insurance actuary'.

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

Go on...

[BigT]

How can MIT keep this a-hole on their staff? He deliberately committed fraud and has admitted so. In most places that is grounds for dismissal.

[PapayaSF]

I wonder if Congress or any of the states can claw back their roughly $2 million in fees they paid him. At least some of them paid him as an "outside consultant," yet he had a financial interest in the law's passage.

I hope the new Congress gets him under oath and makes him squirm.

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

bag of hubris

Bag of SHIT, Matt. Bag of shit.

[PapayaSF]

How come tweets get shown onscreen but not H+R comments? I'm hurt.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

Write a script to do it or something.

[PapayaSF]

I don't have a Twitter account, in part because some idiot woman chose "PapayaSF" as her handle, at least a dozen years after I had started using that handle online.

[Sevo]

She was jealous.

[PapayaSF]

Just part of the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy against me.

[Sevo]

YOU?!
Naah; ME!!!

[BigT]

They should respond to your suggestion. Imagine how much the viewership would increase!! by tens at least

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

So tripled then?

[JEP]

There are dozens! Dozens of us!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Seems kind of racist to assume no rioting will take place if the cop is indicted.

[PapayaSF]

Everything is racist these days.

[thom]

Your cynicism is not only racist, it is classist, sexist, and reeks of privilege.

[AlmightyJB]

I'd riot but it's really cold here. Plus it seems like it would be boring.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

It just interrupts.

[PapayaSF]

"Hands Up, Don't Shoot" was disproven by the autopsy results.

[BigT]

Pull your pants up and don't loot - is a billboard going up in StL.

[PapayaSF]

I saw the "Pants Up, Don't Loot" thing earlier today. Hilarious.

[BigT]

Matt - you are right. Tomorrow is the perfect day to release the grand jury decision that the cop won't be indicted - it will be 27 in StL, too cool to riot.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

D0 it 5am so they have to get out of bed at the crack of dawn to go start shit.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Weiss!

[JEP]

One of my friends from college went to high school and was really good friends with Kassig.

[PapayaSF]

Bummer.

[Fist of Etiquette]

JESUS CHRIST. STOP INTERRUPTING.

[BigT]

They need a producer who can mute her microphone as needed. Would greatly improve the program. She makes great introductions, but really kills the conversation.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Of all the people needing their input governed, Michael Weiss isn't one of them.

[JEP]

They should make her raise her hand if she wants to say something...

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

Boots on the ground, boots on the ground, looking like a fool with your boots on the ground...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx_uHh-3U6o

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

I think there is a "Kieth Stone" (for Keystone Light) joke in here somewhere.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Trains! It was all part of Biden's master plan.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

It just interrupts.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

What I love, is right when he's about to make his point SHE SHOOTS OFF HER IDIOT DICKSUCKER.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

EXACTLY. It's so effen nnoying.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

a

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

It's the most "happening" phrase for the last 50 years.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

I want to hear Matt's take on Kennedy.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

And what I mean by that is, has he ever told her to do less coke.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ironic as this whole thing was an episode of He-Man.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Gay jokes? This seems beneath Fox Biz.

[AlmightyJB]

Lol:)

[ProLifeLibertarian]

I look forward to hearing Nye make his point in the least condescending manner imaginable. (Sarcasm.)

Seriously, I believe in anthropogenic global warming, but people like Nye and NDT need to tone it down on the smugness scale. That's not how you win over people.

[Irish]

They could also start looking for solutions that don't involve blowing up the electrical grid, impoverishing millions, and giving limitless power to federal bureaucracies.

That's crazy talk though. Only handing infinite power to random paper pushers in the IRS can save the planet.

[Raven Nation]

giving limitless power to federal bureaucracies

Yep; it's part of the whole, "if you don't support the government solving X, then you don't care about X."

If you don't support public schools, you don't support education; if you don't support Obamacare, you don't care about sick people; if you don't support government taking over industries, you don't care about the environment.

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain."

The problem with using argumentum ad absurdum with socialists is that they take it as a challenge.

[Raven Nation]

Excuse my ignorance: is that Mises?

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

Bastiat.

[Raven Nation]

Ah, thank you.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Bastiat, no?

[ProLifeLibertarian]

Massive government is the solution to everything!

[BigT]

You are in desperate need of a few basic science courses...

[Heroic Mulatto]

Listen, Bill Nye was an mechanical engineer who hosted a kid's show. Quod erat demonstrandum, he is superior to all of us.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

I'm convinced.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

He should have spent more time studying his core curriculum.

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

Calling him a thief would be racist.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Bungled that whole thing.

[Hyperion]

WTF, Kennedy? Is this a libertarian show or Jerry Springer?

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

I put Xmas lights on my turkey. Sue me.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

A Retard?

[Fist of Etiquette]

No use starting to celebrate Christmas when the tryptophan kicks in.

[BigT]

Kennedy: Let the turkey cool before putting up the Xmas lights!

NY passerby: (looking shiftily) you mean let he cool after I strangle her?

[Derpetologist]

As much as I enjoy Manufacturing Marvels with John Criswell, I can no longer stand to listen to Kennedy's squawking.

In other news, the Arabs are blaming Israel for ISIS. Really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3_XtwgQjnI

Also, an old Simpsons episode is proof that US was planning to bomb Syria for many years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyofadz81J0

[Sevo]

"In other news, the Arabs are blaming Israel for ISIS. Really."

Yeah, and Obo's web-site failure was 'cause rethuglicans!

[Heroic Mulatto]

Have you ever read Daniel Pipes' essay ""Dealing With Middle Eastern Conspiracy Theories"? In my experience in dealing with those from the Levant, and especially the Gulf countries, I believe Pipes is spot on here.

[Derpetologist]

My favorite one is when an Egyptian blamed Israel for shark attacks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFyx8aa120w

Also, the US invented beheading, so we have no business criticizing ISIS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IFnuHnpf3Y

[Heroic Mulatto]

The whole phenomenon is so bizarre. I can barely understand such a mindset. It's as if there was a genetic predisposition to schizophrenic paranoia in this haplotype, but since everyone else is also a schizophrenic, it becomes normal.

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

You see this same phenomenon in subcultures in the US. AM radio and comments on any site that posts Mark Ames' work come to mind. But how do you cultivate it on the scale they do in the Middle East?

[Derpetologist]

Pipes' article tries to explain it by saying that if you live in a country where propaganda, secret police, and coups are common, it's not such a stretch to see secret plots when there aren't any.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I think the Middle Eastern "honor" culture has a lot to do with it.

[Derpetologist]

I am reminded of a joke:

A man in 1930s Germany sees a rabbi on a bench reading a Nazi pamphlet. The man asks the rabbi why he is reading it. The rabbi says "well, when I read the papers, all I hear about are pogroms and persecutions of our people. But when I read the Nazi stuff, it's all about how rich and powerful we are. It really makes me feel a lot better."

[Old Man With Candy]

HM, you have read "The Closed Circle"?

[VG Zaytsev]

It comes from Islam, which does not particularly value truth telling and considers lying to advance the faith to be a virtue.

[Hyperion]

I'll never forget the first time I ever heard Bill Cosby, Fat Albert and all that shit. I was just a kid, I laughed so fucking hard I think I pissed myself.

The guy was at one time, definitely a very talented comedian. I'm not judging the guy, who knows the truth at this point. It's not like any famous person has never been accused of shit by would be gold diggers.

[Heroic Mulatto]

And Bill Cosby's social conservative views on certain issues in the Black community have nothing, nothing to do with the recent media attention to these already known allegations.

[BigT]

Yeah, go after Bill C as a rapist ....

.....Bill Clinton

[Fist of Etiquette]

Please tell me Nye is going to be on solely to talk about Cosby.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Gee, I'd love to sit at the Welch table at Thanksgiving.

[Fist of Etiquette]

So suddenly the libertarians are all worked up about personal pain management decisions???

[Fist of Etiquette]

"Last answer from you."

Oh, I doubt that.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

Players these days have access to the best nutritionists, therapists, and physicians. There seems to be this conflation of players taking powerful and legal medications with the abuse of illegal drugs.

[Fist of Etiquette]

State of Affairs looks like it has the possibility of being the absolute worst thing ever.

[Derpetologist]

Persian says US understands nothing but force:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_GEy1i8eY

Arab says Persian understand nothing but force:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxo3F75PqqM

[Irish]

Arab and Persian are both right.

[John Titor]

That's a largely accurate realist description of international relations.

[GILMORE]

Not really. 'Realism' understands that everything is a relationship of Power Differentials

'Force' is only one kind of use of power, and actually the least often recommended by any Realist to advance national interests.

Use of force is only necessary in cases where the power differential is actually *in doubt* or significantly threatened, and the two opposing states each consider themselves (probably mistakenly) mismatched in their own favor.

If they both accurately understood their respective positions, force would never have been necessary.

A realist would probably point out that statements along the lines of 'X Nation-state understands nothing but...' says far more about the speaker than their subject.

[Derpetologist]

It's funny to me because I had only ever heard neocons say such things.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Oh shit, is this what they're talking about? Evolution? Goddammit.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yeah this is off to a good start.

[Irish]

I'm pretty sure this episode of Chris Hayes' show is going to open with him tearing a picture of Jonathan Gruber in half and yelling "FIGHT THE REAL ENEMY!"

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

Bill Nye has no real arguments and is arguing against a non-issue.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

It just interrupts.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

This is... just awful.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I do enjoy discussions where the participants talk past each other. Especially when they're simultaneously trying to out-condescend each other.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

Well described.

[Rebel Scum (formrly Rev-Match)]

There are few, if any, rational people on the AGW hysteria side.

[BigT]

Knew it. Nye is a jackass. AGW is bs.

[Scold Crybaby, Esq.]

Why doesn't she ask him why he is so scared to compete in the marketplace of ideas, if his ideas are so obviously correct?

[Irish]

Can someone explain why I'm supposed to give a shit about creationists again? I don't much care about the creation myths of random people in Africa or Asia, why should I care about the nonsensical beliefs of someone in Alabama?

So long as they aren't trying to force this stupidity into schools, it's their damn business.

[Fist of Etiquette]

WELL IT'S A GOOD FUCKING THING MICHAEL WEISS WAS USHERED OFF THE SHOW SO WE COULD HAVE TIME FOR THIS.

[JEP]

I actually like Kennedy a lot, but she's a bull in a china shop. Remember last week when she took a day off, and people were actually able to voice complete thoughts?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Oh, those were the days.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Jesus Christ. Pull the Vaudeville cane.

[Derpetologist]

My favorite MEMRI vids are the ones where the Arabs whine about being exposed by MEMRI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VjefCUpAeY

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Would it kill Kennedy to pretend to be professional for THREE.FIVE FUCKING SECONDS?

[Irish]

But then how would she make penis jokes? Did you even think this suggestion through before making it?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

No.

/lowers head.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Maybe if she wore the right shirt?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Ten seconds of Keepin' It Kmele? Why even bother.

[cavalier973]

OT: What is the best free video editing softward for Windows? I am currently using Movie Maker, but its' kind of clunky.

[Timon 19]

Don't use Windows.

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[Hyperion]

Derbz

[Hyperion]

Kennedy: I was born in Indiana and I have never met anyone who claims that the earth is 6000 years old.

Really, Kennedy? Did you never ever in your entire time of living there ever go outside your house and actually listen to what anyone was saying? Maybe you were too busy interrupting them to notice? I find it totally impossible to believe that anyone who has ever lived in Indiana for even a year or two without meeting a lot of people who will insist that the earth is only 6000 years old.

That being said:

Nye is a fucking dick, but he actually looked better there against Kennedy.

His only downfall was somehow equating evolution, which there is plenty of proof for, with AGW, which there is absolutely no proof for.

[Marktaylor]

I don't, until the internet popularized this minority (maybe the last 10 years) I don't think most people had ever heard of young earth creationists.

These are like the KKK, a boogey man that is largely non-existent, but makes for good moral posturing. Except, young earth creationists are not just a small group, but a harmless one.

[Flaming Ballsack]

In human behavior, denialism is exhibited by individuals choosing to deny reality as a way to avoid dealing with an uncomfortable truth.[1] Author Paul O'Shea remarks, "[It] is the refusal to accept an empirically verifiable reality. It is an essentially irrational action that withholds validation of a historical experience or event".[2]

In science, denialism has been defined as the rejection of basic concepts that are undisputed and well-supported parts of the scientific consensus on a topic in favor of ideas that are both radical and controversial.[3] It has been proposed that the various forms of denialism have the common feature of the rejection of overwhelming evidence and the generation of a controversy through attempts to deny that a consensus exists

[Flaming Ballsack]

"Engineering and scientific advance have given us transport by land and air, the capacity and need to exploit fossil fuels which had lain unused for millions of years. One result is a vast increase in carbon dioxide. And this has happened just when great tracts of forests which help to absorb it have been cut down.

For generations, we have assumed that the efforts of mankind would leave the fundamental equilibrium of the world's systems and atmosphere stable. But it is possible that with all these enormous changes (population, agricultural, use of fossil fuels) concentrated into such a short period of time, we have unwittingly begun a massive experiment with the system of this planet itself. Recently three changes in atmospheric chemistry have become familiar subjects of concern. The first is the increase in the greenhouse gases?carbon dioxide, methane, and chlorofluorocarbons?which has led some[fo 4] to fear that we are creating a global heat trap which could lead to climatic instability. We are told that a warming effect of 1?C per decade would greatly exceed the capacity of our natural habitat to cope.

[Flaming Ballsack]

Such warming could cause accelerated melting of glacial ice and a consequent increase in the sea level of several feet over the next century. This was brought home to me at the Commonwealth Conference in Vancouver last year when the President of the Maldive Islands reminded us that the highest part of the Maldives is only six feet above sea level. The population is 177,000. It is noteworthy that the five warmest years in a century of records have all been in the 1980s?though we may not have seen much evidence in Britain!"

Margret Thatcher

[Flaming Ballsack]

but theres no evidence...

[Sevo]

Did you have a point other than a waste of bandwidth?

[GILMORE]

yes. Michael Specter wrote a good book called Denialism which shows how liberals routinely reject science when it suits them

"We live in a world where the leaders of African nations prefer to let their citizens starve to death rather than import genetically modified grains. Childhood vaccines have proven to be the most effective public health measure in history, yet people march on Washington to protest their use. In the United States a growing series of studies show that dietary supplements and "natural" cures have almost no value, and often cause harm. We still spend billions of dollars on them. In hundreds of the best universities in the world, laboratories are anonymous, unmarked, and surrounded by platoons of security guards?such is the opposition to any research that includes experiments with animals. And pharmaceutical companies that just forty years ago were perhaps the most visible symbol of our remarkable advance against disease have increasingly been seen as callous corporations propelled solely by avarice and greed."

[Agammamon]

Bro, do you even evidence?

It is estimated that?at the beginning of European settle-
ment?in 1630 the area of forest land that would become
the United States was 423 million hectares. . .

By 1907, the area of forest
land had declined to an estimated 307 million hectares. . . Forest area has been relatively stable since 1907.

Today's forest land area amounts to
about 70 percent of the area that was forested in 1630.

http://www.fia.fs.fed.us/libra.....Metric.pdf

[BigT]

We are told that a warming effect of 1?C per decade would greatly exceed the capacity of our natural habitat to cope.

Indeed, 1?C per decade would be a problem. But the rate predicted by even the most delirious AGW fanatics is more like 0.1?C per decade, and over the last 18 years ZERO. So Ms Thatcher is right that the rapid increase predicted by the loonies is a problem, but that problem ain't happening.

[JEP]

I don't think Matt said anything for the entire second half of the show. And good God, Lou Dobbs is awful.

The idea of having an old man's head appear on my TV and talk at me and say dumb things is very strange to me.

[Derpetologist]

Reason needs to work this into an upcoming article:

http://www.troll.me/images/yod.....-thumb.jpg

[Fist of Etiquette]

Kennedy speechless in the aftershow? What gas are they pumping in the studio right now?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Labor Day kicks off the holidays!

[Fist of Etiquette]

At least they're having fun in the aftershow.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Aaaaaaaaaaand cut off.

[Sevo]

"Gruber? I Just Met Her!"

I do like that!

[Derpetologist]

Oh look- an Arab cleric on TV talking sensibly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvvvomANbRo

[Heroic Mulatto]

I've heard of that guy before.

They need more like him.

[GILMORE]

I missed the show. Did they have ferrets again? knife fight? Knife-fighting ferrets? Any highlights?

[GILMORE]

re: "the Gruber de-personing"

I was about to type, "I cant believe democrats are so fucking stupid that..."

...then went, 'Ok, rephrase:'

I can't believe Democratic strategists are telling the idiotic pols that the best way to handle the Grubergate 'being caught lying about legislation via video' is to "lie about Gruber! - pretend you don't know him and he had no impact on the legislation!!"...

...which is quickly and easily exposed as a lie *via video*

If i were a 'strategist', I'd be saying "look = say, "John was a great aid in our efforts and is an accomplished man in his field. We respectfully disagree with his characterizations, and feel that he's been mishandled here and taken out of context. We all know playing 'gotcha' is easy..."

i.e. TAKE THE FUCKING HIGH ROAD. Reclaim some credibility. Stop the momentum of the narrative that you're all slimy dishonest fucks. The LAST thing to do is to *feed* that narrative with more shitty dishonest soundbytes which are easily contradicted by older comments.

Jesus, what fucking AMATEURS. seriously, i was dumbfounded by Obama's foreign policy gaffes... but now? I genuinely think the guy is just not even 1/3 as intellectually qualified as people assumed. My dad made a similar comment = even if you disagree with these people's politics... god damn, they're not even good at being empty suits

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Never interrupt the enemy when they're making a mistake...and for god's sakes don't give them fucking pointers on how to stop making mistakes!

My only consolation is that they're too fucking incompetent to take your advice.

[Sevo]

Wasteland Wanderer|11.17.14 @ 11:13PM|#
"Never interrupt the enemy when they're making a mistake...and for god's sakes don't give them fucking pointers on how to stop making mistakes!"

Patton made it more clear:
'The Krauts are digging their own damn hole! Don't take their shovel away!'

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Heh. Gonna have to steal that one...

[Handlebar]

If you let your dog poop in the house it's going to poop in the house forever. Obama's gotten away with lie after bald-faced lie for six years and more.

[Knarf Yenrab!]

which is quickly and easily exposed as a lie *via video*

Which you only find out about if you weren't playing COD or watching reruns of Maverick on Netflix instead of being politically active.

Like Barnum, no politician has ever gone broke underestimating the rational irrationalism of the American voter.

[Dana DeLorenzo]

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