Police

Daniele Watts and a Tale of Two Acts of Non-Prostitution

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Brian Lucas/Facebook

In a fit of masochism and guilt, I agreed to spend yesterday evening in Northern Virginia. We're not talking right-across-the-river-from-D.C. (where I live) NoVa, but the end-of-the-train-line, need-a-car-to-get-around part. My friend was picking me up from the Metro station, where I walked out past the bus stops and waited by what turned out to be a semi-busy street. 

Pacing near this entrance to the Metro complex, I was daydreaming as usual, so I didn't see my friend pull up to the stoplight. He wound down his window and waved out his hand to get my attention. I nodded and made some hand gesture of acknowledgement as the light changed and he turned into the lot, circling around and pulling up beside me. I got in. And that is all. But it struck me getting in that this was exactly the kind of circumstance that could get some women in some parts of the country arrested for "manifesting an intent to commit prostitution". Like, exactly. I've never had to worry about this sort of thing, though, because I look like who a lot of cops think they're here to protect.

The only correlate I have to stories of routine street harassment and cruelty by cops is how often I haven't been bothered, arrested, or abused. And let's just say I'm no angel. I have absolutely walked the streets of so many cities drinking alcohol from travel mugs, ducking into dark parks and alleys to sneak a joint or a kiss; purchased drugs and even untaxed cigarettes in the relative open; and generally engaged in the kind of semi-suspicious and minimally-criminal public behavior that I'm certain would get someone with darker skin or more testosterone at least harassed (if not arrested or assaulted) many times over. 

Daniele Watts/Facebook

I wouldn't be writing about any of this right now except that I woke up this morning and read Brian Doherty's post here about actress Danièle Watts. Watts—who appeared on Weeds (where she played a cop) and in the film Django Unchained and now on the new TV show Partners—was handcuffed and detained by police officers in Studio City, California, after being affectionate with her husband in public in the middle of the day. 

"Today, Daniele Watts & I were accosted by police officers after showing our affection publicly," wrote her husband, raw foods chef Brian James Lucas, on Facebook. From the questions the officer were asking, he said it was clear that whoever had called them in thought that Watts, a black woman, was a prostitute and he, a white man, was her client (something "that happened to her and her father when she was 16" as well).

Because of my past experience with the law, I gave him my ID knowing we did nothing wrong and when they asked D for hers, she refused to give it because they had no right to do so. So they handcuffed her and threw her roughly into the back of the cop car until they could figure out who she was. In the process of handcuffing her, they cut her wrist, which was truly NOT COOL!!!

You can read Watts' update in full here and his in full here

I wish everyone had the privilege I've had to not just break dumb laws without really fearing repercussion but even simply to go about regular life without being treated like a criminal. Incidents like this one with Watts, however, show how it's not merely about the attitudes of cops. Excluding everything the officers did or didn't do once they showed up, there's still the fact that someone seems to have called them on an assumption that this young black woman cozying up to a white man must be a prostitute. Absent anything the cops did in Chris Lollie's case, there's still the fact that someone called them in to investigate a black man suspiciously sitting idly. There's the fact that in my decade of living, working, walking, loitering, and sometimes breaking the law in cities, no one has ever called the cops on me. 

If there's any non-bleak takeaway here, it's perhaps that decriminalizing the bodily autonomy of adults in terms of things like drug use and prostitution would give cops and busybodies a lot less cause or pretense to investigate and harass. I'm beginning to believe anything that lessens the amount of contact that cops can have with the public is pretty much a net gain for public safety and well-being. 

NEXT: Ending the Global Drug War: Voices from the Front Lines

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  1. If there’s any non-bleak takeaway here, it’s perhaps that decriminalizing the bodily autonomy of adults in terms of things like drug use and prostitution would give cops and busybodies a lot less cause or pretense to investigate and harass.

    And yet the people in power oppose such decriminalization. One might almost be forgiven for thinking that they want to be able to harass, detain, and terrorize people on the flimsiest of pretexts.

    1. In AZ, they’ve tried to overturn the drug laws passed by state plebiscite three times. The first two times our medical MJ laws were overturned by the legislature and the courts respectively (operating far past their mandate, natch). So far the one we got passed in 2012 has stuck, but not for lack of trying on the part of that moralist bitch Jan Brewer.

      It’s almost amusing how seriously they take these small affronts to their power on the part of the people they ostensibly represent.

      1. Wow, what complete shits. On what possible basis can they possibly do that (I mean, beyond FYTW).

        1. The ’96 referendum was gutted by the legislature after the feds made a big stink about revoking the licenses of docs who prescribed medical MJ to their patients (thanks Janet Reno).

          The ’98 referendum was killed by a loophole that the courts used to invalidate the entire referendum.

          Brewer was making a big deal about getting a “legal opinion” and leaning on the state and federal courts to get them to intervene. The hypocrisy of which was galling, coming as it did from a governor who had previously made a big deal about the right of the people to determine legislation apart from courts in the case of gay marriage and our enforcement of illegal immigration laws.

        2. Wow, what complete shits. On what possible basis can they possibly do that (I mean, beyond FYTW).

          Tom Foley, speaker of the house sued the people of Washington State to keep himself in office.

      2. Why the hell do Arizonans keep electing people like Jan Brewer then? It amazes me that people could want to allow medical MJ and still be the same kind of people that would put Brewer at the head of the state.

        1. We didn’t elect Brewer, she replaced Nappy after she went to go work for the Obama administration. We did re-elect her because the goddamn conservatives and libertarians split their vote in the primary between four different candidates, and the Dem facing her was a fucking joke. I voted L, naturally.

          In fairness, we did elect Napolitano, who was perhaps worse than Brewer. Sheriff Arpaio was a big part of making that happen, btw; the R was supposedly “squishy” on immigration and not “tough on crime”. (This was during that weird period in the 90s when the Ds put on the “tough on crime” mask and the Rs were more libertarian-friendly, though in a slightly unhinged way? Anyways…) I think even McCain threw a few kind words Nappy’s way. It was like an Axis of Evil, but for AZ politicians.

        2. Why the hell do Arizonans keep electing people like Jan Brewer then? It amazes me that people could want to allow medical MJ and still be the same kind of people that would put Brewer at the head of the state.

          Meh

          It’s the same reason that we were stuck with crappy 55mph max speed limits for 20+ years. Yeah everbody hated it and they were complete bullshit, but at the same time it wasn’t a big enough single issue to swing elections.

        3. Brewer is a puzzlement, but McCain is an enigma wrapped up in a paradox.

  2. i still can’t get past the beginning part where ENB suggests that D.C. is ‘a city’ and not just a lawyer/asshole swamp with its own subway.

    1. Now I’m trying to figure out how to get the mental image of a swamp made up of squishy, knee-deep assholes and swimming with lawyers out of my head.

  3. If there’s any non-bleak takeaway here, it’s perhaps that decriminalizing the bodily autonomy of adults in terms of things like drug use and prostitution would give cops and busybodies a lot less cause or pretense to investigate and harass.

    But that won’t be the take-away by anybody but us types because of the race factor. Instead cops just need sensitivity training so they can go about harassing women of all color who look like they are poor and have a drug habit.

    1. who look like they are poor and have a drug habit.

      She wouldn’t look like a heroin addict if she wasn’t a malnourished raw food vegan.

      1. So it’s the patriarchy all the way down?

          1. Tofurtles.

  4. In a fit of masochism and guilt, I agreed to spend yesterday evening in Northern Virginia.

    You capitol dwellers are so quaintly provincial. It’s cute, really.

    Watts?who appeared on Weeds (where she played a cop) and in the film Django Unchained and now on the new TV show Partners?was handcuffed and detained by police officers in Studio City, California

    On the mean streets of Studio City, of all places. That is really fucked up. I am curious, however, how this is supposed to be ironclad proof of racism. I’m Hispanic with a pretty hefty dose of Ta?no Indian and a fair mix of mulatto in there — I cannot “pass for white” in any universe. Yet, I too can say that I’ve never been stopped by the cops in the US (in PR is a different story).

    It’s a class thing, not a race thing: if you look like white trash or a gang banger, you’re going to get the cops called on you, too. That shouldn’t happen, but we should get over jumping at anything which involves a black or minority person and screaming “racism” about it. I get that enough from my cousins that I’d rather not see it from people who should know better.

    1. Oh, it’s definitely a class thing, too. That’s why I’m careful to say that things are not just because I’m white but white and exhibiting all the signs of being middle class, etc.

      1. Plus, if you’re ever mistreated by the police, you can just flash them the ‘I’m with the Kochtopus’ card that everyone gets when they become a Reason staff writer. The cop will then nod, apologize for accosting an agent of his Dark Overlord, and give you a police escort to wherever it is you wish to go.

        1. After demanding a blowjob?

          1. When I flash my Kochtopus card, they offer a blow job.

    2. I am curious, however, how this is supposed to be ironclad proof of racism

      Who’s saying it is? Again, this might be my own class prejudices here, but if you asked me which one looked more “criminal” of the two, it would be Chef Con-Air here.

      1. Completely agree, but I guess we’ll never know until we find out what was running through the head of the person who reported it.

        As a side note, do current laws prosecute the John, the prostitute, or both? I’m curious.

        1. As far as I know, we have nothing like Nordic model “John-only” laws here in the States with the exception of Rhode Island until 2009.

          1. Nordic model laws are horseshit. If it’s not illegal for someone to sell something, why is it illegal for me to buy it?

            Maggie McNeill’s done some great work writing on the absurdity of Nordic model prostitution laws.

            1. If it’s not illegal for someone to sell something, why is it illegal for me to buy it?

              “And I say unto thee verily, ‘Thy women, from queene unto maid, from housewife to whore, shall never hath to bear the sour fruit of their consequences’. I am the Lord, your Goddess who led you out of the Patriarchy to be your Goddess. I am the Lord, your Goddess.”

              –Book of Jezebel 4:71

              Marcotte has come. Marcotte has risen. Marcotte shall come again.

              1. Book of Jezebel

                That book needs to be hidden away like it was the Necronomicon of the “Mad Arab” Abdul Alhazred.

            2. “Irish|9.14.14 @ 4:57PM|#

              Nordic model laws are horseshit.”

              I think people are far too quick to dismiss Nordic Models

          2. Why don’t we try the German model? Too simple, right?

            1. Funny, I lived in Germany for years (Ramstein and then Stuttgart), and was never once propositioned when with my wife and kids. When without, I politely declined and life went on. I guess the societal collapse as a result of legalized prostitution is slow in its coming.

              1. I think that generally feminists would go apeshit if we tried it here. Too much of their status, power, and income revolves around their cultural policing of sex. That it would be a boon to both men and women on balance doesn’t matter. It is never in the interest of an interest group to solve the problem they are interested in.

          3. I realize John’s spelling is atrocious, but I don’t think he should be prosecuted for it.

  5. If there’s any non-bleak takeaway here, it’s perhaps that decriminalizing the bodily autonomy of adults in terms of things like drug use and prostitution would give cops and busybodies a lot less cause or pretense to investigate and harass.

    Oh, ENB, you are so naive. If a cop wants to fuck with a black person, they’ll find a way.

    In Champaign-Urbana, IL, where the University of Illinois is, 88% of the people ticketed for jaywalking were black. This is despite the fact that college kids constantly jaywalk and most of them are white.

    Some people investigated and found this:

    We went to the block of 1500 Hedge Road in Champaign to see what was happening there.

    We chose that block because it had 82 jaywalking arrests of black people from 2007 to 2011.

    That was the highest total in the city and 11 percent of this type of arrest in all of Champaign.

    It also was more than the total number of white people arrested, 72, in the entire city combined.

    When we went to the block we discovered another important fact.

    Like many other streets in the Garden Hills neighborhood, it has no sidewalk.

    The cops would stake out this block and just arrest people for crossing the street since there were no crosswalks so everyone was technically jaywalking. Strange that I’ve never heard of cops doing that in a white neighborhood.

    1. Cops do that shit all the time in white or mixed neighborhoods. In Tucson, if you go down to 10th Ave and 28th you’ll see cops trying that shit, and the neighborhood is mixed population.

      Has to do with class. Black people have been fucked by government for so long, that (despite a fairly large middle class mostly comprised of those who emigrated to the North prior to the Great Northern Migration) they are generally on the bottom of the totem pole — but whites and Hispanics who end up there are just as badly fucked. Get a black man in a well-fitting business suit and stick him in the Upper West Side of NYC, and get a white man with gang tats, a stained wife-beater, and saggy pants and stick him in some seedy neighborhood in Buffalo. Then look up how often each one gets stopped by the cops.

      Again, not saying this is a good thing at all — it is a problem, but throwing race into the mix is a red herring which generally involves tossing some more middle class blacks or Hispanics onto a police force entrusted with patrolling the poor areas of town. It doesn’t fix the trust issue, or the brutality issue because it doesn’t solve the underlying class problem.

      1. There are some dirt poor white neighborhoods in Urbana. If race isn’t involved, then why do none of those neighborhoods get similar treatment?

      2. I agree with your main point but disagree that race is entirely a red herring.

        Because “everyone knows” that young black men commit more crimes than any other demographic, and this especially includes the police. A patrolman trying to impress his boss or make his totally-not-a-quota contact goal for the month thinks: why over-complicate it? Everyone knows that the young black men and those hanging around them are the best target, why not start there? I’ve seen this shit over and over. It’s a real problem. That’s not to say that there are not problems in urban sub-culture, but urban doesn’t always equal black. White kids in the hood do the same shit as the black kids, they just tend to get targeted less.

        1. That’s a fair point.

          I guess my point is in getting to root causes. Though it does happen in middle class neighborhoods with shocking frequency, I’d say that police brutality and misuse of authority is most common in poor neighborhoods. Reason suggests that it might be better to recruit more from the population that will be served (that is, the neighborhood itself if possible and adjacent neighborhoods with similar problems), so as to better enact the Peelian principles of maintaining the support of the public that is being served. Obviously this is not the only thing that will fix things, but I do think moving away from the bourgeois composition of the current force would help things along.

      3. Get a black man in a well-fitting business suit and stick him in the Upper West Side of NYC, and get a white man with gang tats, a stained wife-beater, and saggy pants and stick him in some seedy neighborhood in Buffalo. Then look up how often each one gets stopped by the cops.

        The real question is which one could get a cab first?

        1. You suck. I was expecting Lenny Kravitz.

    2. I’m guessing this was a poor neighborhood? Or, at least, there were a number of poor to lower middle class people out and about? In my experience that’s where most petty law enforcement is targeted. At people who can’t afford to fight back. I saw it all the time as a poor kid and as my circumstances improved over time I watched my new neighbors of a higher economic/social status engage in the same behavior that the poor people did, in full view of the same police force that was harassing the poor for petty offenses, and not be bothered at all.

      1. Yeah, it was definitely poor. Champaign-Urbana is a fucked up, incredibly poor part of the state that just happens to have rich sections related to the college. It would be a gigantic ghetto if it weren’t for rich college kids going to school in the wealthy areas.

        1. I’ve lived in that exact situation and the racial aspect can really go into overdrive under those circumstances. The cops don’t know which white kid might be a rich student with a lawyer dad or connected dad and so they almost ignore that demographic entirely in regard to bullshit. It was fine for me, but it sucked balls for my friends, most of whom were black or Hispanic. I still get angry thinking about it.

          1. I think I probably missed that by growing up in PR and then going active duty military shortly after. Got harassed by PR cops a lot, but by the time I was on the mainland I was “respectable” enough not to draw that kind of attention, heh.

    3. Cops fuck with poor people because they can’t afford representation, and because they know the public pretenders are on their team.

      It appears that they like to fuck with poor blacks more than poor whites, but I think it’s more a case of knowing that their targets can’t fight back in court than racism.

      Because in their hearts cops are bullies. They don’t mess with people who can fight back.

      1. ‘…because they know the public pretenders are on their team.”

        Not true at all in my experience. The appointed attorneys in my jurisdiction were not at all on the same team as the cops. I know because I was one of them. I always fought really aggressively on behalf of my clients, as did most everyone I knew in the Defender program. Despite the abysmal pay, some of us get a lot of satisfaction out of doing the best work we can.

        Plus, it meant I got to cross examine cops and do what little I could to level the playing field a little bit. Which provided, at least, some psychological reward — though, I’m not sure if it exceeded the frustration.

  6. I wish everyone had the privilege I’ve had to not just break dumb laws without really fearing repercussion

    Not being a victim of morality or revenue policing is not “privilege” That bullshit concept needs to die. Privilege means private law. What you are talking about is discrimination in law enforcement, and couching it in words like “privilege” suggests that it would be just ducky if it were evenly enforced, or that there are laws on the books that exempt you from it.

    That black women are far more likely to be harassed in this manner (something I have witnessed myself on more than one occasion) is an indication of racial bias in law enforcement application, an entirely different thing, but white women can also be harassed in this manner (which I have also been a witness to) and when it descends upon them they also being victimized. That it has never happened to you is nothing for you to be grateful for, or feel any guilt over.

    If there is a privilege culture in America it is a power privilege. To be found among the politicians, politically connected, and those upon whom they bestow their favor.

    Invoking “privilege” indicts a vast number of people with no connection to an objectionable act as being somehow responsible for it, and by trying to do so turns a large number people off to anything else you might have to say on the subject, even where there is an actual occurrence or racism.

    Especially then, and it’s not helping.

    1. Hear, hear!

  7. This makes a lot of sense
    http://www.Crypt-Tools.tk

  8. The USA is a Puritan country that will always hate us whore-mongering, gambling, small government pro-drug types who used to be called libertarians.

    Now the Puritan GOP has annexed the libertarian movement in exchange for a temporary 2001 tax cut. Ron and Rand Paul has even turned the libertarian movement into an Aborto-Freak sideshow.

    They “cleaned up” the libertarian movement just like they did country music.

    1. I’ve got an idea! Let’s compare libertarians to Republicans and then bash Republicans!
      idjit

      1. Funny thing is that PB is only one of the many idiots I have filtered out but after reading your comment I knew exactly who the empty white space above it was created by.

      2. I’ve got an idea! Let’s compare libertarians to Republicans and then bash Republicans!

        The two are not the same, dipshit. That is my point.

        If you are a libertarian start thinking like one and leave Team Red.

        1. Yeah, like all true libertarians we should mindlessly worship Saint Barack and genuflect before his noble icons.

          1. Obama is no libertarian. He is just moreso than Bush/McCain is.

            It is no real accomplishment at all. It is like hitting .150 in MLB vs a .100 hitter.

            1. Obama and Bush about equidistant from the libertarian ideal. Obama is a corporatist with socialist leanings who keeps his cronies happy. Bush was a politician, in that he could be an unprincipled corporatist, a “compassionate conservative”, or a small-government advocate of free enterprise depending upon which would better serve the interests of building a “permanent Republican majority” and keep his cronies happy. Bush was a war-monger who believed his own bullshit and caused a catastrophe; Obama is a war-monger who lies incessantly to maintain the illusion that he really doesn’t like war, but maintains the permanent warfare state.

              McCain, however, is an unprincipled corporatist pure and simple, and a fascist who is unashamed to express his love of war. He’s in a category of his own. If this were baseball, he’d be 0.000 for stiking out every time at bat. Despite the stupidity and failure of the Iraq War, it’s really unfair to put Bush in the same category a McCain.

              1. I admit to voting for McCain. I felt dirty afterwards. Last election I voted for GayJay.

        2. The reason why libertarians, when forced to choose between R and D tend to choose R, is because D is openly hostile to economic liberty.

    2. I’m confused. Aren’t the progressives the ones basically at war with college sexuality who believe that we must all undergo a series of onerous rituals before engaging in coitus?

      Because that seems mildly puritanical to me.

      1. Which Congressional bill was that in?

        1. Not in any congressional bills, but in a whole lot of collegiate behavioral codes.

          What congressional bill was the banning of prostitution in? Last I checked those were state laws, not federal.

          1. Actually PB raises a good point = on top of things like California SB 967, are codes that many public universities are adopting due to pressure from the DoE’s and DoJ “Civil Rights” departments

            The Federal Government via the DoE has been forcing universities to adopt these puritanical, invasive policies which attempt to police human relations down to the very interpretations of “body gestures”

            He is right to draw attention to this pernicious influence by liberals in the federal government, particularly in how Title IX has been used to extend beyond academic or athletic issues and into policing interpersonal relationships on campus.

            1. Once again PB’s blindsided by his own stupidity.

        2. That type of intrusive legislation is all the rage these days in the ‘liberal’ mecca known as California–the state I unfortunately live in.

          1. Sorry to hear that you’re stuck in Kalifornia…

            I was born there, but my family moved to Ohio when I was 3. I used to think it would be the coolest thing in the world to leave “boring” Ohio and live in Los Angeles. But after I got a job, paid taxes, and generally saw the world as an adult, I realized what a shitty place that state truly is.

  9. Wait…Elizabeth, you’re a prostitute?

    1. TIWTANFL. Except if you pay them.

  10. raw foods chef Brian James Lucas

    Seriously? Isn’t ‘raw foods chef’ a fancy name for the guy who cuts up vegetables.

    1. No, legumier is a fancy name for the guy who cuts up vegetables. ‘Raw foods chef’ is a a euphemistic name for “Magnets: How do they work?”

      1. We just called them ‘cranks’ in the Navy (until that was deemed to derogatory – then they became ‘food service attendants’).

        Wash the dishes, cut the vegetables, take out the trash, wash some more dishes.

      2. Ive said it before, but the number of people who can actually explain how magnets work is very, very tiny.

        1. Nonsense! Who, with even a modicum of education, doesn’t know that magnetism is merely the observable effect of vortices in the luminiferous aether?

        2. Richard Feynman explains magnets

          Interviewer: “What’s going on between these two [magnets]?

          Feynman discusses, and concludes, “I am not going to be able to give you an answer to why magnets attract each other except to tell you that they do. … I cannot explain the magnetic force in terms of something that you’re more familiar with because I don’t understand them in terms of anything else that you’re more familiar with.”

          Guy was a most brilliant physicist, and he was a great communicator. (Seriously, no sarcasm.)

  11. I’m beginning to believe anything that lessens the amount of contact that cops can have with the public is pretty much a net gain for public safety and well-being.

    Better rethink that, maybe limit the scope of what you’re writing, because taken generally, you mean you want the cops to be even more isolated from the gen’l citizenry?

    1. Yes. Send them all to Pitcairn Island.

  12. It’s a dress code. Race is a part of it, but not anywhere close to all of it. Cops believe they posses the power to divine who is criminally minded and then they persecute them. Conform or be cast out.

    They use the petty stuff to investigate people, hoping for evidence of more serious stuff. they imagine finding the smoking gun after the traffic stop. They are indoctrinated to believe that crime is all around them, and everyone is suspect. Their choices are narrowed by the overall look and circumstance of their victims.

    The people who are truly screwed are the one’s who have the “look” but aren’t criminals. Cops and jails and courts are no biggie for criminals, they suck for decent people. AT some point it becomes clear that you might not ever get out of their clutches and you’d be better off turning criminal.

    It’s a lot like having a jealous girlfriend. You suffer as if you cheated, even though you didn’t. You really might as well.

  13. “I wish everyone had the privilege I’ve had to not just break dumb laws without really fearing repercussion”

    You get caught by the pigs in a marijuana transaction, and you will soon find out that you should have feared repercussion.

    Lack of skin pigmentation and gender won’t help much, except that it lessens the probability of getting shot or beaten.

  14. Of course this is true, but here’s what gets me: If black people know that they are more likely to be targeted by the police, why invite more severe treatment by behaving in an uncooperative fashion? Why not just show your ID?

    Note, I am not endorsing the cops behavior. However, there is another thing that has been on my mind since Fergeson, and actually since before.

    That is, I recently found out the seemingly widely known yet seldom discussed fact that black people don’t tip. No, I’m not being racist, and yes, it is true, and this is even backed up by industry research. Black people systematically either don’t tip or don’t tip as much as the 15%-20% standard.

    I’m bringing this up for two reasons. One, it explains a lot about blacks complaints about poor treatment by cab drivers, as well as other service people. Apparently, the fact that blacks don’t tip is so widely known in the restaurant industry that waitresses systematically avoid being assigned tables full of blacks. Same for cab drivers. From the black person’s perspective, this might look a lot like racism, but it’s actually cabbies acting on (apparently correct) knowledge that they are likely to make less money from the black fare.

    The second reason I bring this up is that it seems as if blacks frequently almost invite people to treat them poorly. I mean, here there are systematically not tipping and them complaining that service people don’t treat them well as a group.

    1. (cont.)
      So, these two things sort of give me this picture that makes it looks like there’s something going on where black people are, consciously or not, almost deliberately attempting to elicit racist behavior from non-blacks.

      And it makes sense doesn’t it? I’m sure we all know people who psychologically kind of purposely distance themselves from others and provoke antagonistic relationships. And then get off on being the martyr or the misunderstood outsider.

      I kind of think what’s going on here is that black people kind of GET OFF on other people’s racist behavior towards them. So they’re going around kind of provoking racist reactions just to prove themselves to be victims, to revel in their own victimhood and exclusion.

      1. I don’t know jack about the tipping thing.

        I’m white, but in my teens I got a lot of tattoos, had long hair and rode Harleys. Still do on all three.

        When it became apparent that my looks were causing my police troubles, I was incensed. How dare society impose a dress code on me. With dire consequences no less. The injustice of it stung me so bad that I flaunted it. I knew I could wear long sleeves, get a haircut, and drive a mundane vehicle, thereby avoiding much of the harassment, but believed I shouldn’t have to.

        I never begrudged anyone the right to not hire me or deal with me voluntarily. It was the forcible taking of my freedom and money and vehicles that pissed me off. I didn’t mitigate it because I refused to cower in the face of injustice. I at least had the power to change it, many are utterly incapable of becoming part of the less likely to be persecuted class.

        Basically, the burden shouldn’t be on someone to prove their not a criminal. Being asked to do so, solely because of how you look, is likely to elicit a hostile response.

        1. You shouldn’t have to really. Maybe there’s not a direct analogy to the police interactions.

          But the tipping thing baffles me. Not tipping isn’t like having long hair and tattoos. Not tipping is just being rude to people. It’s like if you went around being a total dick to everyone, and then when they treated you like a dick back, used that as evidence that people were discriminating against you based on your looks.

          Like if you routinely went into the same bar and smashed the place up and then were like “oh you just hate me because I’m a biker” when they stopped letting you in.

        2. I’m white, but in my teens I got a lot of tattoos, had long hair and rode Harleys.

          Nowadays that means you’re college educated, high earning, upper middle class, never been arrested, have two or three kids in soccer and drive a mini-van during the weekday.

    2. Why not just show your ID?

      Thank you, Hazel. A voice of reason (drink). Like all too many of the cop abuse stories around here, once you read the details, it puts a somewhat different light on things. This woman was not arrested for “being affectionate with her husband in public,” she was arrested after refusing to show ID. It’s like saying “Mike Brown was executed for stealing cigars”: um, no.

      Of course, this is not to say that the cops were right, or that they ought to be able to demand ID for any reason, just that simply being rational and polite would have diffused the situation.

      “Oh, officer, haha, this is my husband and here’s my ID.”

      “Oh, sorry to bother you, ma’am.”

      Aaaaaand it’s over.

      (Of course, not dressing like you chose items at random from the Goodwill donation box would have helped, too. What ever happened to TV and movie stars dressing like they were stars, even off-camera? Somebody give Gilmore her number.)

      1. she was arrested after refusing to show ID.

        Which, since California doesn’t have a stop and identify law, isn’t a crime.

        just that simply being rational and polite would have diffused the situation.

        On what basis are you claiming she wasn’t? Again, refusing the officer’s request for an ID is perfectly legal in her state, so you can’t claim she was “impolite” merely by refusing the officer’s request.

        And can you tell me with a straight face that if Ms. Watts said “Am I being detained, or am I free to go?” things wouldn’t have turned out uglier for her?

          1. If state law empowers them to do so, yes.

            The thing is, Papaya is incorrect in two ways. First of all, not only is refusing to show ID not a crime (unless you are, you know, driving a car), but Watts wasn’t even arrested. She was detained. Now a police officer can detain someone if they have probable cause. And in both ways the officer’s purported probable cause is retarded. What probable cause did he have to suspect Watts was a prostitute and/or her husband was soliciting? Secondly, if the “probable cause” was refusing a request to show ID then the probable cause to detain was based on something she was legally able to do.

            People who assume the police are in the right are the ones allowing our liberty to die the death of 1,000s cuts. Indeed, liberty requires us to assume the police are usually in the wrong. That’s why we don’t have an inquisitoraljudicial system like they do in many European and Asian countries.

            1. People who assume the police are in the right are the ones allowing our liberty to die the death of 1,000s cuts.

              This.

            2. “First of all, not only is refusing to show ID not a crime”

              In Ohio it has been a 4th degree misdemeanor with arrest since 2006 if you refuse in public. Us Ohioans have fucking idiot state Sen. Jeff Jacobson to thank for making us more ‘secure from terrorism’. Goddamn brain-dead Yale parasite.

              1. for making us more ‘secure from terrorism’

                How I spent my 9/11.. thinking of all the ways life was better before it happened.

                Once upon a time I could open a bank account without an ID, wasn’t regularly urged to extract loyalty oaths from my Muslim friends, could get on a plane without having to undress first, and could even bring a bottle of shampoo on this plane with me. Good times.

            3. It doesn’t matter if not showing ID is a crime in CA or not. It’s just one of those boring, death-of-a-thousand-cut things that is a reality to anyone paying attention. Do I like it? No, but I’d hate being “detained” even more. I’m not willing to die on that particular hill.

              “Probable cause” is a slippery concept. It may be perfectly legal to act and dress a certain way, yet those actions and clothing may well look like “probable cause” and get one in trouble. Why not (duh) simply avoid getting in trouble? It may well be legal for me to walk the neighborhood at night wearing a cartoonish burglar costume and carrying a flashlight, a TV, and a talking doll in a bag over my shoulder, and then refusing to show ID to a cop who stops me. I might well get detained for insisting on my “rights.” On the other hand, showing my ID and explaining that I’m on my way to a costume party would probably allow me to go on my way. Better yet, don’t do the entire costume until I get to the party.

              So what’s the real libertarian action here? Causing a fuss over the not-very-crucial principle of “I don’t have to show you my ID,” in a way that changes nothing, and which restricts their own liberty for the period of detention? Or quickly talking their way out of the state’s clutches, and going on with their life?

              1. “Causing a fuss over the not-very-crucial principle of “I don’t have to show you my ID,”

                Pragmatically speaking, thinking citizens should be causing a ‘fuss’ when NOT in the cross-hairs of the pigs.

                Or quickly talking their way out of the state’s clutches, and going on with their life?

                Yes, there is logic in this approach when caught in the cross-hairs of the pigs.

            4. I think you’re missing the point of the post. Of course the cops are wrong, and she didn’t have to show ID.

              But isn’t it rather STRANGE that a person who thinks the police are biased against her would, for no particular reason, make a fuss about showing her ID? I mean if you think the cops are out to get you, why give them an excuse?

              My point is, it just seems like there is some wierd psychology going on where it’s not JUST that the police are biased, but also partly that, maybe black people tend to invite or provoke racist behavior on purpose.

              1. And actors are not exactly known for modesty, rationality, and keeping their egos in check.

              2. It’s not just black people. I’ve definitely fucked with cops over the ID thing. Of course, I also wasn’t going to be surprised if I ended up going for a ride when I did it.

                I thought of it as public service. While I was tying up the cop, he wasn’t out beating down other people.

        1. everybody know that you must comply with the agents of the state in order to avoid more serious consequences.

          Work make you free

        2. You’re right, but I think the context here is that black people are bitching about what a “privilege” it is that white people aren’t suspected of being criminals by default, but then is she being treated like a criminals because (a) she’s black or (b) she reacted to the police in a hostile uncooperative way.

          I mean, if you think the police are by default inclined to treat you badly, why go out of your way to piss them off?

  15. We’re not talking right-across-the-river-from-D.C. (where I live) NoVa, but the end-of-the-train-line, need-a-car-to-get-around part

    Oh… my… god…

  16. We need to clear up two things:

    1. What is the Citizen’s Code of Conduct during a Legal contact with police?

    2. Is it lawful for someone to resist arrest if they feel that the arrest is unlawful or unfair and it is later on proven to be unlawful/unfair?

    3. Should be just make it a federal law that one must present ID? Keep in mind, we’re not too far from the police using Facial Recognition and not requiring and ID.

    One thing that each and every police death incident had in common recently is that the victim of the police felt that they were being unfairly/unlawfully treated. Practically each and every one. This lady was pissed for being called a hooker. The Cigarette guy was pissed for the petty arrest. etc.

    1. That’s three things, not two.

      1) Try not to get beat up or killed, and break contact as soon as possible.

      2) If you try to resist arrest, they will do stuff to you that will later on be categorized as unlawful behavior on YOUR part.

      3) Fuck no.

      You’re welcome.

      1. Um, you don’t have to ‘try’ to resist an unlawful arrest.

        They will insure that you ‘are’ resisting arrest no matter how passive and calm you are during the ‘always lawful’ arrest.

        Behavior obvious to us Libertarians, but for those new to insidious policing:
        http://apublicdefender.com/201…..-thuggery/

  17. These cops are probably trying to get their Royal Cock Block trophy from the Whore-Stoppers wing of Desert Snow.

  18. Want to see some good old fashioned crazy? Read the comments from this article about Sweden’s election.

    (Trigger warning: Disqus)

    1. Sample: SD won’t “sweep out the foreign trash”. They are led by the jew, have jew elected-members, are pro-jew-state, and complain about the Muslims jews helped import to Sweden, with their main argument being that muslims are “antisemitic”.

      1. Yeah, I couldn’t tell if “Nicholas I” was a role-playing troll or did the irony stars align just right.

        1. If it was a role-player or paid troll the individual certainly played their part, but I didn’t see any “I’m a proud member of X party and we will X when we gain power” tells that made me question it’s authenticity.

  19. Another interesting pattern not listed in the initial facebook post (found later in the comments):

    Cheffy BeLive They didn’t arrest her, they detained her. THEY HAD NOTHING TO ARREST HER FOR! They let her go quite quickly when they realized we were right outside CBS and that she was a celebrity and I was a celeb chef. Before they figured out who she was they were threatening calling an ambulance and drugging her for being psychologically unstable, SO NOT COOL WHATSOEVER! We still forgive, love and bless them…just not putting up with this for our own freedom and heart space.

    Threatening a psych evaluation in hospital – something we’ve seen a few times but doesn’t get the attention of other abuses. Remember Adrian Schoolcraft?

  20. I’m beginning to believe anything that lessens the amount of contact that cops can have with the public is pretty much a net gain for public safety and well-being.

    Well, to maximize that non-contact would mean doing away with government run police forces — which I agree with.

    1. The very bright future of terrorism on ‘Merican soil pretty much insures that legislators will gleefully continue handing police all sorts of options to encourage contact with the public.

  21. What color was the cop?

    1. off-white/puse

  22. SUCK IT libtards!

    There is no doubt that Somalia remains extremely poor today. However, as far as living standards can be assessed, they appear to be improving since the collapse of Somalia’s national government [in early 1991–RPM]. In fact, standards are improving faster in Somalia than in most of sub-Saharan Africa.

  23. Doesn’t all of this ultimately lead back to the acceptance of the notion of “victimless crimes”? Why do we still tolerate this idea? Would it really have been any better at all if this lady actually WAS a prostitute? Yes, I agree, people should not have to live in fear of being harassed by the police and they should not have to show their “papers” (one of the horrors about East Germany that was drilled into me in grade school) but the whole idea of legally defined “vice” is completely anathema to a free society.

  24. “I wish everyone had the privilege I’ve had to not just break no one had to worry about breaking dumb laws…”

    FTFY

  25. I dont thingk Slap Daddy is gonna like that.

    http://www.Crypt-Tools.tk

    1. Yeh.

      I listened to 3/4 of the audio before i decided the police officer deserved an award for not pepper spraying her “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM, I’LL HAVE MY DADDY TAKE YOUR BADGE AND GIVE IT TO MY PUBLICIST” ass

      as per my comment way above = i think Reason needs to chill the fuck out on trying to be on top of every TMZ-esque ‘police run-in’ in effort to be #1 on the “Police State Oppression”-beat, because not every stop is a violation of people’s rights, not every arrest is racist, and not every use of force is excessive just because every douchebag happens to have a video camera in their pocket.

      It works much better when you focus on the few examples that ARE really horrible, rather than try and inundate people with newsy-items about every high-profile idiot who gets pulled over.

      1. Indeed. It’s starting to be a “boy who cried wolf” situation for me. Every time I see another “police abuse” story around here, I reflexively begin looking for the idiotic behavior of the victim that precipitated the whole thing. Better to stick to real examples, like no-knock raids on the wrong houses, based only on a tip from a shady informant.

        1. Exactly.

          I still have no doubt some asslicker like Bo will come screaming after me for ‘Daring to defend ‘arbitrary authority’ or something.

          I care about fighting the good fights. if Reason tries to choose to defend cunts like Watts over her ‘how dare you question *me*?!’ nonsense, then the paper loses all credibility when dealing with more legitimate issues of abuse – because no one trusts its objectivity anymore. I certainly wouldn’t.

          Also, its not like we don’t have ENOUGH ‘wrong door raids’, dog-shootings, ‘shot while handcuffed’, ‘shot in the back’, died-in-custody, seizures of assets, child-arrests for candy-guns, etc etc etc etc.
          … such that we need to cover bullshit like this.

          Dear H&R = No more TMZ bullshit, please.

      2. Oh, and while you’re here, I want you to critique her outfit… LOL

      3. *note: this was not the thread where i said this whole story just reeked of ‘HOW DARE YOU’-over-reactions… which i think was the one before this.

        …where I note that brian has updated the post with a mention of the audio… which he feels *only adds to the conclusion that COPS ARE FUCKING DICKS*??

        Was i saying nice things about brian in the past? yeah, i’ll stop that now. Anyone who listens to that audio and argues that Police are The Bad Guys here? You’re a douchebag.

    2. Those wackobird libertarians. Thinking that a nice young lady like this shouldn’t be accosted in a coercive, threatening and violent manner unless she actually at least seemed to be possibly harming someone.

      And how dare she not enjoy it and submit completely. Doesn’t she know how important total compliance is for everyone’s safety?

      There are two crimes here. One is that an anonymous caller thinks that having the police violently intervene and cause real damage to this couple is an appropriate response to seeing them get frisky. Two is that the cops readily accept the opportunity to force their authoritative and tyrannical BS on people for such flimsy reasons and have no concept as to why anyone would even slightly resist being bullied by them, innocent or not.

      I’m sorry, there’s a third. That’s that so many are willing to distort the idea of common decency to such a degree, merely to provide cover for the first two. Shame on the lot of them.

      1. Well we can add 1 to the douchebag list now.

        1. I am proud to be labeled a douchebag by the guy who wrote this:

          “i decided the police officer deserved an award for not pepper spraying her “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM, I’LL HAVE MY DADDY TAKE YOUR BADGE AND GIVE IT TO MY PUBLICIST” ass”

          1. Because objecting to abuse of authority by the police requires apologizing for every cunt that refuses to cooperate just because they are self-important cunts.

            You seem to think people are supposed to have hissy fits and scream and cry if the police ever ask them for ID? Really?

  26. Yes, I believe that the state does not have the right to demand “ZEE PAPERS, PLEEZE” from everyone they encounter. I believe the police should treat citizens with respect and not wrestle them into submission every time a kook calls to report a disturbance. I believe the cops should be prohibited from lying to citizens about their motives (listen to the audio again) I certainly believe that the police, not miss Watts handcuffed her.

    . If they had simply treated her with common respect and told her to keep it in private, I’d support them wholly. They bullied her and violently took control of her being to investigate what? The ruffled sensibilities of some puritan?

    And you explicitly stated that she should have been pepper sprayed for not being casual in her response to the cops overblown reaction to what amounted to exactly nothing.

    Objecting to misplaced or misapplied authority is the essence of libertarianism.

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