Ukraine: Pentagon Sending Advisers, 2 More Jets Shot Down, Red Cross Thinks MH-17 Attack Is War Crime

The Washington Times reports that Defense Department advisers will be in Ukraine "within the next few weeks," teaching the Kiev government how to rebuild and improve its military defense structure to better combat Russian-backed militias destabilizing the nation.
Army Col. Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman, told the Times that the goal is to "shape and establish an enduring program for future U.S. efforts to support the Ukrainian military through subject-matter expert teams and long-term advisers."
According to a Daily Beast exclusive today, the Ukrainian government "quietly asked the United States and NATO for sensitive equipment to jam the radars that Russian anti-aircraft systems use to lock their missiles on planes," a request that hasn't been met in part because the U.S. believes Ukraine's military is "thoroughly penetrated by Russian intelligence."
Although Ukraine has successfully pushed back some of the so-called separatists, these pro-Russian forces still occupy Donetsk and Luhansk, two major cities in the east, and continue to get their hands on more powerful military equipment.
Today, the Ukrainian government claims that the insurgents shot down two Su-25s fighter jets – and that the missiles were launched from Russian territory.
"They were shot down very professionally. The terrorists do not have such professionals," Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for the Ukrainian Security Council said. The separatists have so far shot down over a dozen Ukrainian military planes.
Reuters reports that it was part of "fierce fighting [that] raged on Wednesday near the rebels' two main centers."
Yesterday evening the U.S. government also commented on the shooting-down of a Malaysia Airline passenger plane over Ukrainian skies that resulted in the death of nearly 300 civilians from around the world. The Associated Press reports:
Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement. …
The plane was likely shot down by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine, the intelligence officials said, citing intercepts, satellite photos and social media postings by separatists, some of which have been authenticated by U.S. experts.
"The Red Cross has made a confidential legal assessment that Ukraine is officially in a war, Western diplomats and officials say, opening the door to possible war crimes prosecutions, including over the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH-17," another Reuters article notes.
For more Reason coverage of Ukraine, click here.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
You know, I wonder if Ukraine secretly held on to any of those nukes.
Rockets are unguided and unlikely to shoot down a plane, Zenon, but I'll ignore it as you are a soulless ginger.
Thanks for correcting my error, but I am most certainly not a ginger.
Bah, I'm just funnin' ya. I write a lot for work too and am constantly having to come up with alternatives for words that don't have good alternatives...
What's another word for 'thesaurus'?
Yep. Got one and use it a lot.
Onomasticon is a nice alternative, though it means a list or collection of Proper Names or a list or collection of specialized terms in a particular field.
The armaments industry is muddying the waters: there are now Laser-guided Hydra rockets, and no, I don't know why that doesn't make them a missile.
I doubt they were shot down by a "rocket", Zennon. One in a billion chance.
Rockets are unguided. Missiles are guided.
/pedant
Embarrassing error on my part. Thanks for the correction.
Is that a rocket in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?
Can't it be both?
Is it guided? Heat seeking?
Mine's guided, so no, not a rocket.
Heat seeking moisture missile.
What if I send men to the Moon on a. . .rocket? How do they get there? Is it random chance?
BOOM! Francisco got lawyered.
I'm guessing it's a military distinction, not a global one. I've got this vision of rockets when the British started using them in the 19th century, which I believe were pretty random.
Or it could be that NASA is a bunch of dumb fucks that don't know the difference.
I'm guessing it was that missiles were associated more with nuclear weapons and NASA didn't want that.
Some of our first manned rockets were actually nuclear missile propulsion systems.
I can't remember which missile it was, but when I took a tour of the facility, the guide said that the missile breaks the sound barrier before it has even travelled its own length. That really blew my mind.
Thus does "Is that a rocket in your pocket?" now become clearly an insult, not a compliment.
Well, that's why rocket surgery is so complicated.
Its no brain science, I tells ya!
And then there's all the usage, both historical and current of missile as any thrown or projected ... missile. Or usage of rocket in the same sentence or paragraph as ICBM.
It's five of one, seven of the other, and anyone who calls themselves a pedant and doesn't know that really isn't.
I don't get it. If they aren't at war is it ok to shoot down a jet liner?
Only if they get permission from Obama's super secret approved kill list.
Remember, they have to be "officially" in a war. And in order to be officially in a war, one has to have an assessment. And not any old assessment, the Red Cross has to make an assessment. Not only a Red Cross assessment, but a Red Cross legal assessment. And not only a legal assessment, but a Red Cross confidential legal assessment.
This Red Cross story is such bullshit.
Anyway, without any reference to the USS Vincennes massacre of Iran Air 655, all these stories related to this horrible mess are just warboner stroking exercises.
Jamming equipment is sensitive and expensive. On the other hand, HARMs (high-speed anti-radar missiles) have been around a long time. Be a shame if some of our out of date versions showed up in Ukraine...
*looks up from crate of old AGM-45s*
"I'm sorry, you were saying?"
Yes - send the Shrike!
It's all going according to plan. Somehow.
This is a PERFECT example of how the US makes enemies throughout the world. This is the kinda shit Ron Paul was talking about. We have ZERO national interest in this fight, yet we think we need to pick a side and piss someone off. Poking people in the chest.
STAY THE FUCK OUT OF IT AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!
You mean if you go around poking people in the chest, someone might get mad and punch you in the face?
John and Cyto said that's impossible!
They H8 us 4 our FREEDUMZ!
Well the Jihadists do. They have explicitly said so.
Every jihadist in the world has the exact same single motivation for being one?
Bush is a jihadist?
Okay that was funny.
No I did not you retard.
You know, if you used lotion when you stroked your war boner, it might not bleed as much.
I thought the blood was the whole point.
It's supposed to be someone else's blood as he pulls it out of their ass.
Bloodtorum
Is this your way of admitting that you're a lying fucker?
You insult and demean anyone who talks about blowback. So I don't give a shit what you profess. The fact is that you find any possible excuse except blowback, thus you do not believe blowback is possible. I'm not lying. I'm observing. Fucker.
Uh FDA it says America is *not* sending over equipment. "Subject-matter expert teams and long-term advisers" is just piffle.
But they would have sent the jammers if not for the Russian infiltration.
Did we send advisors to the Russians as well?
It is picking sides when there is absolutely NO reason to. Sit back and trade with both sides instead of creating enemies you wouldn't have had otherwise.
Fair enough, but I'd add that it is totally appropriate for the USG to morally condemn Russia and side with Ukraine-and nothing more.
...mumble mumble 'Nam mumble mumble...
Tell us how El Salvador is really Spanish for Vietnam.
"a request that hasn't been met"
"They were shot down very professionally."
WTF does that mean?
Vs panic fire rocket barrages?
So, not American police then? Or Iraq Army...
Likely a case of imperfect translation on the part of Reuters' part, or imperfect English on the official's part.
I think it means, shot down by an experienced and trained crew of people with sophisticated equipment.
Nothing says "experienced and trained crew" like ad hoc militia.
Exactly, thus implying that an experienced and trained crew - from Russia - shot it down.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like a Russian crew was training a separatist crew and the were practicing radar locks on anything that was flying overhead - and then someone said "and after you have radar lock you press this button...like so...oh wait...ummm hey I think this one is broken and needs repairs, let's get this on a flatbed and get back to Russia ASAP..."
The missile had a tie on.
...AND a monocle and top hat!
I'm wondering WTF the Ukrainians are doing. Why are they flying Su-25's around without any kind of Wild-Weasel effort?
Do they not have the anti-radiation missiles? The Soviets certainly did back in the day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-31
Malaysia is listed as a current operator, maybe they could send over a few.
We don't know how many sorties they have flown - if they lose 4-5 planes after a few hundred sorties...sounds normal. Remember, the ADA guys only have to get it right once...
You are right - but I don't hear news coverage of the Ukrainians tearing up the rebels with all their air-strikes. (Doesn't mean it isn't happening)
The last dude I knew in the ADA is retired now - so I have no one to contact and see if he has heard anything. ...
Of course, I know a CSM who is visiting the Poles and Ukrainians and other E. European types this month. I'll ping him when he gets back.
Of course this is a war crime. Everything that is done by the "separatists" and their Russian Army cohort is a war crime.
The Russian Army types are out of uniform and fighting an undeclared war. War crime.
The separatists aren't under the control of a sovereign, don't wear uniforms (as far as I know) and generally fall outside the Geneva Convention requirements for lawful combatants. War crime.
Serious question. How is a rebellion/revolution ever legitimate? Even if you win you face war crime charges from the UN.
It depends. Are you fighting for the dark side or the "light" side?
I'm a fan of the grey side; the neutral side.
"If I die, tell my wife I said hello."
What makes a man turn neutral ... Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
JA! JA! UND JA!
/Swiss
How is a rebellion/revolution ever legitimate?
When it wins.
How do you clean out spies from your compromised military? Serious question how is this done? How did Eisenhower do it to the Soviet spies?
Switch armies with an allied nation?
Wife Swap!
+1 knife to a gunfight
Stalin knew how...
Counter-espionage is tough. Set traps, feed suspects unique false information and see if it shows up in enemy intelligence.
Well, that's kind of missing Stalin's primary tool of counterespionage--kill or imprison everyone who could possibly even ever thought of doing anything wrong.
That school of counterespionage ran out after the graduate program (Hoxa, Tito)ended, right?
I fear there are those who'd like to bring it back.
I though Barbarossa exposed the flaw in that plan.
Marie Harf, deputy spokesgal for the State Dept., in Monday's presser, admitted that the US does not have any hard evidence to support the neocon propaganda that the Russians and / or the Ukrainian freedom fighters downed the Malaysian airliner.
And we should believe anything the current administration says, because...?
Because most transparent administration EVAR!
The point is that if it is the word of the United States government, you would never go broke betting against the veracity thereof.
So....they do have proof then?
neocon propaganda that the Russians and / or the Ukrainian freedom fighters downed the Malaysian airliner.
Except that some one admitted to it and It's the only explanation that makes a damn bit of sense.
This is why I don't read Lew Rockwell. Apologetics for whoever our politicians happen to be at odds with, reality be damned. I can believe that Putin and company are vile assholes and still not think its any of my business.
THIS
12 planes shot down? Is there only evasive maneuver the famous millennium falcon fade to the left?
Their...
Almost nothing survives a "double digit" SAM.
You know who else couldn't handle more than two digits...
The innumerate?
Ok, I'll do it:
Your mother?
Can't we keep our noses out of just one ass?
The lighting in that picture is deceptive. I'm blond.
Lies make baby Jesus cry.
Okay, you're off the hook.
Ok, I'll do it:
Your mother?
Julia Child?
The US Navy?
Zenon is Justin Bieber?
Why is justin beiber in the line up? Also did they take the reason photo under a McDonald's heat lamp?
No! Stop! All of you! That links to a blog post I wrote about him.
Yes, isn't that how they always do it?
Maybe that is the hazing ritual for reason. A three hour photo shoot under a heat lamp.
Your Da?
Man, that's even worse!
Welch wants the entire staff to look like him.
Welch wants the entire staff to look like him.
Dorky glasses and perfect teeth?
Well some people try to pick up girls
And get called assholes
This never happened to Matt Welch
He could walk down your street
And girls could not resist his stare and
So Matt Welch was never called an asshole
Well the girls would turn the color
Of the avacado when he would drive
Down their street in his El Dorado
He could walk down you street
And girls could not resist his stare
Matt Welch never got called an asshole
Not like you
Alright
Well he was only wearin' dork glasses
But girls could not resist his stare
Matt Welch never got called an asshole
Not in New York
Oh well be not schmuck, be not obnoxious
Be not bellbottom bummer or asshole
Remember the story of Matt Welch
He could walk down your street
And girls could not resist his stare
Matt Welch was never called an asshole
Alright this is it