Police Union Wants To Know Why Perp 'Forced' Cop To Pummel Him


Earlier this week, a video spread across social media showing Green Bay Police Officer Derek Wicklund beating a man named Joshua Wenzel, 29, outside a bar. While the Green Bay Police Department is investigating, Wicklund's police union has come to the officer's defense and is demanding an answer to the real issue: Why did Wenzel make Wicklund punch him in the face repeatedly?
The video captures Wenzel asking officers why they're arresting another bar patron. Wicklund pushes Wenzel, and Wenzel yells "Fuck you!" a few times. Wicklund then charges at the man, grabs him by the collar, and slams him onto the hood of a police cruiser. Instead of ending the altercation then and there by handcuffing Wenzel, Wicklund throws him to the asphalt and punches him in the face a few times.
Besides the bloody nose, the officer gave Wenzel a ticket for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, according to the Green Bay Press Gazzette.
"We haven't had, per se, a formal complaint filed, but based on the information we received we have decided to start our own investigation," Green Bay Police Department Capt. Bill Galvin said. "We're going to be looking at everything that took place before, during, and after that incident."
The Green Bay Professional Police Association doesn't have time to wait around for some investigation to decide who was right and wrong. No sir, they knew who was to blame for this mess and they set the record straight with a press release on Wednesday.
First of all, the police union assures, this was a "justifiable, legal, and lawful arrest." No need for further explanation.
Second, the media is spreading "propaganda" against Wicklund by showing the video. Shame on the media.
Third, the union doesn't understand why people are being so judgmental toward the cop caught on camera charitably feeding some guy a couple knuckle sandwiches. Why don't we focus on the selfish bum hogging all those sandwiches?
Why isn't anybody asking, "What did the man do to force Officer Wicklund to use force?" "What law did the man break?" "What was his demeanor?" "What was his condition?" "Did the man put himself in this unfortunate situation, by refusing to follow simple directions?" All of these questions, and many others, must be answered BEFORE judgment is passed.
And finally, the cold, dead lens of a camera cannot understand the raw emotion and tingling Spidey Senses of a cop:
Cameras do not capture what an officer was thinking at the moment. Cameras do not capture what an officer's perception of a threat is at the moment. Cameras do not capture tactile feeling or what officers were physically feeling at the time, such as human aggression and tension.
Well, whatever tactile, physical feelings the camera didn't catch, Wenzel's face did.
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What are you gonna believe, us, or your lying eyes?
Given your track record - my eyes.
That's what it always comes down to: Failure to obey. Anyone who does not obey is a threat.
That's the "following orders" part of "ask permission and follow orders" that equals "freedom"....right?
Fucking pigs. FUCK!
You got it!
Agreed. Fuck these vicious thugs.
The derp on Policeone is rage-inducing. Praise for the cop for being "a true warrior" as if that is what cops are supposed to be, and good job for being able to go home safely after his shift. Fucking baboons.
I always get a very sour feeling when I read about cops calling each other "warriors" or such. Bah.
I have know honest-to-God amazing soldiers, and these police blowhards have neither the discretion, judgment or bravery those men do. You wanna be a "'warrior" - go to your local Army or Marine recruiting station - I am sure they can get you into a combat arms slot....if you can pass the weight and fitness tests, that is.
All of these pigs would piss their pants upon setting foot on Afghan soil. Not one of them would survive a week.
Warrior my ass.
I always get a very sour feeling when I read about cops calling each other "warriors" or such. Bah.
You're more tolerant than I am. It absolutely makes me want to smash something. There are very few things people can say that get my temperature up. Cops using military lingo is about number one on the list, though.
Reading you five. Out.
I don't even like the 'warrior' label.
You know what a warrior is - he a dude that runs into your camp, kills a couple of people, and steals a handful of old shirts. All for the thrill.
A *soldier* (or Marine) is a professional coercer who is not afraid to do violence but understands that the violence itself is just a tool - the goal is to coerce someone to do your will (even if that will is 'leave me the fuck alone').
Police officer=public servant. These guys who believe they're warriors are the ones who couldn't pass the psyc test on the state police exam. Here in NH all those rejects end up working for town/city depts or my favorite the DOT were they pull you over to inspect your vehicle while wearing military gear. 9mm strapped to the side, pants tucked into military jack boots and every one of them wearing the exact same shades.
Now I'm ready to stand corrected if called out by someone who can show me wrong but my own impressions from reading news reports on Iraq and Afghanistan are that a lot of reserve units are pretty heavily populated by cops, sheriff's deputies, prison guards and the like.
And, again, utterly anecdotally, it is my impression that those reservists were not highly regarded by "regulars" for either conduct or valor.
I think "a lot" and "pretty heavily" are probably a bit much. Certain types of Reserve/Guard units tend to have more cops, military police units, for example.
I guess, given the relatively small number of cops as a percentage of chosen professions, they are probably over-represented in some units. Maybe one or two for a company sized (100-200 people) unit?
As for the final sentence, that is a relic of the artist formerly known as the Reserves/Guard. There are plenty of both that have more time downrange than a surprising percentage of the active Army. Sure, there are some shitbags, but no more or less than there are in active units.
As far as their conduct and valor go, I've seen nothing that indicates that Reserve/Guard units have a higher percentage of nonjudicial punishments or courts martial. Valor is subjective, but you can google SSG LeighAnn Hester (Silver Star recipient) to find a pretty damned fine example of valor from a Guardsman.
At one point I actually set it my router to block myself from going to policeone. I seriously can't handle the amount of rage it causes in me.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....h-cam.html
Failure to obey.
"Good shoot, a true warrior, he went home safely at the end of his shift."
/PoliceDerp
Goddamn, Farva.
What pisses me off so much is that this woman is clearly a cunt, someone who I despise on virtually every level. And now her fucking cunt family is going to make a metric fuckton of money because Farva couldn't control his bloodlust.
The worst part about all this police misconduct is that it creates sympathy for people would I would otherwise view with nothing but derision and disdain.
This^
She may be a cunt, but that doesn't mean she deserves to be killed.
That was his point.
These cases need to be tried by a jury in another jurisdiction with any reference to either individual being a police officer barred from the proceedings. That way the officer will get a fair trial.
Oh wait, the union doesn't want to face a fair trial... Like I give a damn what they want.
Trials are for serfs. Knights get medals, not trials.
snark fail, sarc.
Their peers are the cops on the review board, not the little people who would get picked for jury duty.
The last time I was called in for jury duty the defense was having a very hard time finding any jurors who weren't cops, wives or husbands of cops, children of cops, parents of cops, brothers or sisters of cops, nieces or nephews of cops, or uncles or aunts of cops. It was sort of surreal. By the time I was dismissed I had the strong impression that only immediate relatives of cops are even called for jury duty.
...and State Workers (at least in New York). They tend to show up for Jury duty because we get PTO for serving on Juries (instead of the $40 for private-sector employees)
What better way to insure that the State wins its cases than to stack the deck in favor of the State?
Do you live in Cop Land?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118887/
These cases need to be tried by a jury in another jurisdiction with any reference to either individual being a police officer barred from the proceedings.
Don't forget the phalanx of uniformed cops that invariably pack the courthouse whenever an officer is put on trial. You know, to show solidarity (and maybe stare down the jury the entire time).
There was no basis for the arrest in the first place. Old boy wasn't committing a crime. So the "resisting arrest" charge is BS. And I love the argument- "the camera doesn't capture teh FEELLZZZZZ" of the officer. Seriously, give me a f'n break
Your feelings are irrelevant anyway. The legal test is how a reasonable person would have reacted.
Cameras do not capture what an officer was thinking at the moment
But it does capture exactly what the pig was doing at that moment. That's sort of what matters.
Cameras cannot capture what the officer was thinking at the moment. Nothing could capture what he was thinking, because he wasn't thinking. He was emoting, all over Wenzel's face. And as we know, feelings are all that matter. Those stupid facts captured by the camera are totally irrelevant. FYTW.
This. If I was driving through a neighborhood thinking about what I was going to eat for dinner (or about that hot chick running, what I'd do with $1M, etc.), but actually ran a kid over and killed him, I'm sure the judge wouldn't care what I was *thinking*, but what I actually did.
Why did this vile miscreant recklessly and repeatedly hurl his face into the noble public defender's fist? WHY??
Fuck those guys. Sorry, unless the person is actively beating the crap out of the cop, there is never any reason why a cop is justified in punching someone in the face. And even then there are probably better ways of dealing with it. I don't care how much of an asshole the guy is or how much he disobeys. The cop's job is supposed to be to deescalate the situation.
The cop's job is supposed to be to deescalate the situation.
No, no - they are warriors now, bravely doing combat against the dangerous citizens of the nation they are occupying.
*building rage and increasing blood pressure*
recently got pulled over for being a little late on a red light. Was told to get out of the vehicle, like some damn criminal. Dude who pulled me over was a sheriff's deputy in olive green fatigues, with a combat load and all sorts of cool patches and tacti-cool gear.
I straight up asked him: "Damn man, you're all dressed up! y'all headed out for patrol in Afghanistan? Didn't know the muj were busy here in Austin"
It was all he could do to not laugh. Got off with a warning.
You're lucky he didn't deck you.
dude looked like Vin Diesel in the next action movie. Was too funny to pass up, and I figured I was getting a ticket already, so why not have fun with the situation?
Old boy is *lucky* I didn't come out of the truck buck-naked and looking for a hug. That's the key to this militarization of police: mock them. Make them feel uncomfortable. Make them look/feel/sound silly. Keep your cool and perhaps act a little gay- it makes them very uncomfortable. It's like messing with SoCons, really. Know their buttons and push them without breaking the law.
So he was a "geardo".
The trained ape probably thought you were complementing him, which is why he let you off with a warning instead of introducing you to the taste of asphalt.
let him think that. And here I am, laughing about it without a $200 ticket to pay. Win-win. Hope he fapped furiously to the thought of me in short shorts.
Dude who pulled me over was a sheriff's deputy in olive green fatigues, with a combat load and all sorts of cool patches and tacti-cool gear.
When I was in the Marines back in the '90s, there was a base-wide prohibition against going out into town in our fatigues. Off base, you were to be dressed either in civilian clothes or in a proper, presentable uniform (generally green slacks and a khaki button-down shirt). Enforcement was strict, with senior NCOs prowling around local fast-food places waiting to write up anyone who so much as went through the drive-thru in his or her fatigues. As a punk kid who lived on base anyway, I never gave it much though. Now that I'm older and I see how the police like to present themselves to the public as warriors, I realize what a good policy they had going at Camp Pendleton.
still was like that when I was in the Corps. I still wore flip-flops because I'm a strong independent man and I don't need no NCO!
A cop's job is ensuring compliance by any means. It has absolutely nothing to do with enforcing the law, protecting serfs, deescalating situations, or anything like that. Their job is to make people obey. That's what compliance means. If punching people in the face gets compliance, then they're just doing their job.
Motto: "To Protect and Serve...
...You a Knuckle Sandwich Right Your Fat, Resisting Arrest and Questioning My Authoritah Puss, Civilian!"
/new Professionalism - hth
To Protect and Serve... the political class.
The cop's job is supposed to be to deescalate the situation.
I read that as 'defecate,' which seems more accurate.
Somewhere I have a great recording of the Mayor Daley (the Elder) saying to the press: "Let's get the thing right, gentlemen. The police aren't there to create disorder. The police are there to PRESERVE disorder...."
classic
"Why isn't anybody asking, "What did the man do to force Officer Wicklund to use force?" "What law did the man break?" "What was his demeanor?" "What was his condition?" "Did the man put himself in this unfortunate situation, by refusing to follow simple directions?" All of these questions, and many others, must be answered BEFORE judgment is passed."
So much good shit in that one paragraph. And all of it easily disproved simply by watching the video. Astonishing that anyone could actually put out a press release of this kind.
But maybe not so astonishing for America in the present day.
"What did the man do to force Officer Wicklund to use force?"
He said "Fuck you."
"What law did the man break?"
None that I can see.
"What was his demeanor?"
Who cares, unless a certain demeanor is illegal.
"What was his condition?"
Pretty beat up, it looks like to me.
"Did the man put himself in this unfortunate situation, by refusing to follow simple directions?"
Is a bystander refusing to follow simple directions against the law? What directions is he failing to follow, anyway?
Third, the union doesn't understand why people are being so judgmental toward the cop caught on camera charitably feeding some guy a couple knuckle sandwiches. Why don't we focus on the selfish bum hogging all those sandwiches?
I had to scroll up to see who had written that wonderful paragraph. Normally I can guess.
I have a generally positive opinion of Zenon's prose.
Thanks, guys.
tingly spidey sense got me to scroll.
OT: and apologies if covered. Heinlein biographer passes:
http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/.....n-memoriam
But he finished the second volume, right?!
I think it was the guy who stood in for BRandon Lee to finish shooting "The Crow" who completes the second volume....
/obscure reference
You know that guy played that character like, eight more times. I'm pretty sure I caught The Crow IV on TV a couple months back.
Goddammit, I want my comment back so I can go with:
Ghostwriter
A dead writer's hero
Yep, comes out in June. Titled 1948-1988: The Man Who Learned Better
Patterson was only 63.
Do not miss the press release. It has all the idiocy, sub-literacy, stupid defensiveness, and self-pity you could ever ask for.
Why do you hate my blood pressure, Warty?
"Totality of the circs"! Awesome. And it seems like the guy was being arrested and assaulted for running his mouth. Last I checked, that's not a crime. Wonder what would happen to me if I were to assault and pummel a guy for running his mouth. It would be considered justifiable force, right?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
It just isn't fair that the camera doesn't show that perp was asking for it!
NOPE!
Former LEO, here, saw enough of the encounter to know the officer was out of line and administered a smack-down because the guy swore at him, after he had pushed the guy out of the way.
Professional conduct would have been to ignore the taunts, chasing the guy out into the street and punching him in the face was excessive force.
Dollars to donuts (no pun intended) the "resisting" charge was, or will be, dropped.
Yeah. And if you called the cops they'd mock you for being a winey little bitch, search you for drugs, run you for warrants, mock you some more, then leave if you're lucky.
we live in an era where police officers are asked to do more with less
Really? I'd be shocked if Green Bay has cut its cop budget.
we live in an era where police officers are asked to do more with less
All that free shit the FedGov gives them is now considered LESS, eh?
"Why isn't anybody asking, "What kind of shameless cunts would defend Officer Wicklund use of force?" "What's wrong with people like that?" "Are they retarded?" "Are they sub-human apes?" "Did they abandon all pretense of honestly, integrity and human decency when they became police union gimps?" All of these questions, and many others, must be answered BEFORE a judgment is passed."
Fixed.
Why isn't anybody asking,
The WoD and 40+ years of cop propaganda on TV and in cinema.
Saying "Fuck you" to a cop is viewed as assault. He/she literally believes your words are a threat of rape. That's how the precinct will interpret it all well. Squeamish feminists will back them up.
He/she literally believes your words are a threat of rape.
It's not so much that, as a failure to show respect. That all by itself is considered to be a threat.
Remember that they live in a world where there are two kinds of people. Good guys and bad guys. Bad guys don't respect the police. Bad guys kill people. If you don't show them respect, you may as well be attempting to kill them. That's how they think.
Actually I thought I'd toned it down. "Fuck you" really means that one wants to ass rape him/her then shoot said dead and steal said's cop car and drive to said's home and kidnap his/her family and ritualistically rape and dismember each one of his/her family.
Funny how this presumption of innocence for the cop is in fact a presumption of guilt for the guy who he assaulted.
It makes sense though. Unlimited rights and enumerated powers have become unlimited powers and enumerated rights.
So it's no surprise that those with power are presumed innocent while those who claim to have rights are presumed guilty.
Unlimited rights and enumerated powers have become unlimited powers and enumerated rights.
Couldn't have diagnosed this wretched phenomenon any better myself.
I'm stealing that, sarc. Beautifully put.
In a just world that would be true. But we do not live in a just world.
So, if I fuck some dude up for saying "Fuck you!" to me outside a bar, can I get away without an investigation?
Depends on if the cops like you or not. If they like you and they figure the guy deserved it, then nothing else will happen.
That's what "wide discretion" means. If they like you they let you go. If they don't like you you're fucked.
Isn't the problem for Wicklund that the Green Bay police department *are* asking those questions - and the answers they are getting are not in Wicklund's favor?
Why isn't anybody asking, "What did the man do to force Officer Wicklund to use force?" "What law did the man break?"
They are not asking that because outside the cop bubble "what law did he break" is not relevant. The only relevant question is "why was the force necessary for the officer's or someone else' safety or to make an arrest given the circumstances?".
The union seems to believe that the mere fact that someone is breaking a law gives the police the right to beat the living snot out of them. Worse still, they seem to also believe that the act of doing something to piss the cop off justifies the cop assaulting the person. That is that new professionalism. The old professionalism said the public paid the cop's salary to occasionally take verbal abuse as part of the job. The new professionalism says your response to anything you don't like is to just beat the shit out of the person doing it.
None of this of course is a surprise to anyone on this board. The entire law enforcement culture is broken. I don't see how we are ever going to fix it.
Make the law respectable, and respectable people will choose to enforce it.
It is worse than that. Being a cop is a shitty job. Few people who are not just horrible sociopaths or complete morons want to do it.
I think the biggest cause of our problem is the constant obsession with putting "more cops on the streets". The police departments have gotten so big that there is no one to fill them but the worst scum imaginable. And that scum has quickly overwhelmed the few decent people who want to do police work and created a culture of violence and arrogance. Even when a decent person decides to be a cop, they are likely to be made into a horrible person by exposure to the dysfunctional culture.
I'm sure being a cop in a city can suck pretty bad. But being a cop in a small town like where I live seems like a pretty tit job. And close to half of them are still raging assholes.
I have a couple of neighbors who are ex-cops (which is kind of weird since 6 people live on my street) and are decent guys. But I wanted nothing to do with them while they were still active.
Even when a decent person decides to be a cop,
It's their fault for falling for the propaganda. Every time my cop buddies complain about their jobs I just laugh at them because I TOLD them WHY it was a shitty job BEFORE they took it.
The first few hundred laws were made by people who meant well and tried to do the right thing even if they were mistaken. The 70 trillion laws that followed were all made by sociopaths.
The only relevant question is "why was the force necessary for the officer's or someone else' safety or to make an arrest given the circumstances?".
That doesn't seem to be the question the cops are concerned with. They seem to be asking "Why can't we punch up anyone who disrespects us?"
Exactly.
Municipal bankruptcies are the only fix.
AND NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED
Hey, this guy was embarrassed. People said mean things about him in the media. Isn't that enough? Why do you hate cops Almanian?
Why do you make me hit you?! Why?! WHY?! Fuck you, you bitch! I hate you! I hate you! Oh God, I love you! Why the fuck do you do this me? Why do you do this us?!
*breaks down sobbing*
/WifeCitizen Beater
Oh, like they'd ever show even that kind of contrition. It's more like Ike Turner asking Tina why she makes him hit her.
First of all, the police union assures, this was a "justifiable, legal, and lawful arrest."
Judge, jury, and executioner.
It's the new professionalism!
The badge should be integrated into brass knuckles. That way the public servant doesn't waste time displaying authoritay and protecting himself from a lethal flurry of injurious insult.
Second, the media is spreading "propaganda" against Wicklund by showing the video. Shame on the media.
Because unedited videos are absolutely pure propaganda...
Cameras do not capture what an officer was thinking at the moment. Cameras do not capture what an officer's perception of a threat is at the moment.
Oh, sure, the "threat" of someone that is backing away from you.
I'll care about what police feel when police start caring about what anybody else feels.
Why these donut grazers aren't being found scattered throughout random dumpsters, I'll never understand.
For god's sake, just look at that brave officer's knuckles, all red and sore from the perp's teeth. No, none of you thought about that did you? And the knees of his costume pants are all dirty and scuffed up. Now they have to go to the cleaners, and freedom warriors don't make much money you know. When I think of how close that brave officer came to not going home safe to his family that night, why it just makes me want to go shoot a dog.
I certainly hope that the officer Wicklund's hands weren't injured after suffering that horrific face-assault by Wenzel.