Gay Marriage

Welcome to the Era of Politically Correct Web Browsing!

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The newly appointed CEO of Mozilla, which gives away the popular web browser Firefox, has stepped down since being outed as an opponent of gay marriage by the dating site OK Cupid. In a new column for Time, I argue that the Internet has empowered faster, better, stronger activism along with faster, better, stronger shopping. That's great as far as it goes, but there's always a catch, isn't there?

Now that we're well past a subsistence economy, we live in a world of largely symbolic exchange, where we don't simply choose something because we're hungry or naked but because we want to make a statement about what sort of person we are, what sort of taste we possess, and what sort of values we share.

But socially conscious web browsing will also be a time-consuming and hugely complicating activity too. One of the great promises of the Internet was that it would allow all of us to sift through vast amounts of information and arrive at the best answer in record time. We all know it hasn't quite worked out that way. We spend more time than ever hunting for new things and then even more energy comparing this option to that option. And now, we have even more to consider every time we fire up our browser.

Read the whole thing.

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  1. His offense seem less worse than most of the Hollywood Ten, such as Dalton Trumbo– for whom his CPUSA allegiances actually affected his work, both overtly and covertly. The business case for blacklists then is the same as now, of course. (And, yes, government involved in both, considering that his information came out via an illegally leaked donor report.)

    1. But blacklisting Communists is an offense against democracy and freedom of conscience. Blacklisting supporters of traditional marriage is entirely, completely different. They’re just dangerous, oppressive people, you see.

      1. Start earning with Google! It’s by-far the best job Ive had. I earn up to $500 per week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out. Visit this site right here http://www.Buzz95.com

    2. I don’t understand this article. It seems kind of gay.

  2. I’m going to continue to make my web browsing as politically incorrect as possible.

    1. I’m with you.

      With a big middle finger.

    2. I started by continuing my boycott of OKCupid.

      I like Firefox, it works. And the shrieking eels are decrying something that has nothing to do with the ability to perform the job of running the organization.

  3. We should interview the Mozilla outrage machine while they fill up at gas stations.

  4. A CEO ousted for being a bigot is a success for both market capitalism and social liberalism. No government required; bigoted attitudes further marginalized.

    1. That may very well be true…it of course doesn’t change the fact that you are an asshole.

        1. Excellent!

          I’ve always wanted to be the “Dude”.

    2. No government required

      We thought that government is required for everything?

      Oh, I get it, government is only required when the outcome is not what you thought it should be. I get it.

      1. Of course the fact that it was predicated on an IRS leak of his tax return (where the government makes you name charitable contributions) isn’t the government getting involved at all.

      2. That’s because you struggle with gray areas. It’s why you think governing is required for nothing (except when the outcome is not what you thought it should be).

        I am not a mirror to you!

        1. I am not a mirror to you!

          You could only hope in your wildest dreams.

          It’s why you think governing is required for nothing

          It’s comments like that, that make you so irrelevant. IRR-EL-E-VANT.

        2. I thought it’s gay areas we struggle with.

          Because freedom of conscience is a dog whistle for homophobia, or something equally delusional.

        3. Yes, because the one size fits all policies and cemented one-dimensional views of progressives are perfect for gray areas.

          You dinks want to control just about every virtue and vice you can find. Gray. Right.

    3. Reading your comments in the voice of Fat Tony makes them funny.

      1. I always read everything in Fat Tony’s voice.

    4. Sure, but that doesn’t mean the outrage wasn’t unfair and unreasonable. This isn’t even the owner of Chic-Fil-A bragging in an interview about opposing gay marriage, this is a CEO who has contributed much to the world being forced out after being outed for a making a minor political contribution.

      Eich didn’t even bring the subject up.

      1. You gonna be at UCI today? I’ll be binge drinking at the pub from 5-7.

        1. 5-7? This is what happens when The Independents isn’t on.

          From the mouth of my 6 year old:
          “Daddy, today is my favorite day. Do you know why? Because we don’t have to watch that stupid show at dinner!”

          1. Well, as a peon, I lack basic cable. So I’ve yet to watch a single episode of The Independents. So yeah, if you want to join in on the beer party, come on down, and bring the kids! The food is great.

            1. Sounds like fun, but no can do. I have the flu, plus I gotta pack. Vacation in the desert starts tomorrow.

              Drinking with the kids and getting on THE 405 at rush hour would certainly get an interesting reaction from my wife, though.

              1. Oh, didn’t get the flu shot, eh? You trying to kill all us vaccinated folk?! And I also find that I do many things around my girlfriend solely to elicit interesting and humorous reactions.

            2. I feel like I should drive to Irvine right now, but I probably wouldn’t make it until 7 at this point.

              1. Eh, the 405 south BEFORE 5:30pm is bearable, and you’re usually in Irvine in around an hour, but after that, all bets are off, since most traffic flows south on the 405 during the evening, and north in the morning. This does not apply to 405 traffic north of La Cienega, however.

          2. That should make the Two Minutes.

          3. Hilarious.

            It’s on at midnight (9pm on the West coast). Stossel trumps TI.

        2. Not today, I’m only on campus Monday-Wednesday-Friday.

          1. Oh, then disregard that Facebook message..

      2. Oh well. There are a billion other outrages in the marketplace that are more worthy of attention than the rich CEO of a company quitting over public pressure, which means it’s probably entirely a market consideration. If it were a moral consideration, well corporations are people now, maybe they’ve achieved a conscience.

        1. Mozilla’s a non-profit, so your whole schtick about this being just the usual corporation-pursuing-its-own-bottom-line business won’t fly.

          As far as I’m aware, Eich isn’t particularly wealthy either.

        2. Mozilla Foundation’s “conscience” is “promote free software”.

          They’re a single-issue entity, and I expect they fired him not because “they’ve achieved a conscience” (where “conscience” means “agreeing with the outrage machine that anyone daring to contribute to Prop. 8 can’t have a job”) but to shut up the outrage machine so they can promote the thing they actually and always cared about.

          I can’t make myself care about the horror of someone at Mozilla not being on the Right Side about Queer Handfasting, personally.

        3. Yeah, you know all that filthy lucre floating around the open source free software web browser industry. The guy’s probably swimming in the stuff.

    5. Excellent point, Tony. McCain and Obama’s shared opposition to gay marriage in 2008 is one of the reason I didn’t vote for either one. Score one for Democracy.

      1. I find it fascinating that gays like Ellen and Tony support Obama when his track record on their marriage rights is less than impressive; even pathetic.

        Meanwhile, the ONE group that has stood by gay rights unconditionally – libertarians – they either ignore and/or loathe.

        1. Because they’re socialists first, and all the blather about civil rights is just a cover for that.

          1. By the way, I meant Jennifer Lawrence. Not Sanita.

        2. “Meanwhile, the ONE group that has stood by gay rights unconditionally – libertarians – they either ignore and/or loathe.”

          Which why the libertarians should question their support for “gay marriage”. It is a ruse. Studies show that when it is made the law of the land, few same sex couples actually opt for it. (See the track record in Toronto.) But what does happen is individual rights of those who advocate traditional marriage are stomped on. I would love to “live and let live”. The leftists want none of that.

          1. What a joke. The Libertarian position of the Federal Government recognizing same sex marriages as being valid does not infringe upon anyone’s Civil Liberties. Because the Libertarian position also does not include forcing churches to perform them. It is only extending whatever benefits marriage has for traditional couples to gay couples.

            The only way supporting gay marriage “Stomps” on anyone’s Individual rights would be if we forced churches to perform them as many progressives would demand.

        3. I couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that libertarians are allies with the SoCons could it? Or maybe that a large percentage of libertarians are really just Team Red castaways who kneejerkedly hate gays for being part of Team Blue? Tribalism is stronger than principle in politics.

    6. Just like blacklisting Communists in the 1950s.

      Government was required a bit here, thanks to disclosure forms (then illegally leaked.) Just like how the state of Alabama tried to pressure “foreign corporations” like the NAACP to publish their donor lists, until the Supreme Court struck them down.

      You would no doubt be one of those talking about how keeping those “outside agitators” like the NAACP or the Communists out of jobs was a great success and necessary for business, Tony.

      1. I am not the righting reactionary here.

        You seem to be suffering from the delusion that I actually believe you when you say you won’t use government force to your own ends if you ever had control of it.

        1. We already know for sure that you would, so what is your point?

          Are you going to threaten us again that your masters will use high tech missiles against all of us if we continue to berate and ridicule you, because, you know, you’re a moron?

          Are you going to post links to missile pictures from the Raytheon site?

          You’re such a sad loser.

          It would be possible to feel sorry for you if you weren’t so ungrateful to those who have tried to educate you to at least a kindergarten level of intelligence.

          1. I think it’s not an insubstantial point that, while we both would equally use government force to our own ends, my ends are good and yours are apocalyptically fucked.

            1. This might be one of the silliest things I’ve seen you post, and that is saying something.

              1. This is perhaps the stupidest thing Tony has ever said:

                “What is the point of talking about individuals in a political context?”

            2. Except, that I am opposed to using government to force my own ends.

              So your argument has no substance.

              1. I would be happy to use government force to eliminate (or at least minimize) the use of government force.

            3. I know this one. This is a Stalin quote, right?

            4. Interesting. So you subscribe to the “Watchmen” villain’s plotline as an ideological standard. Very strange, and very sad.

            5. ….my ends are good and yours are apocalyptically fucked.

              You’re just adorable when you get worked up.

          2. Tony is the sort of progressive who mustn’t know where the guns are and be in possession of one because they’ll go drunk on power and ruthless on applying their ‘ideals.’

        2. Yeah, those “libertarians” are just faking the centrality of “absolutely minimal or no government power” to their philosophy.

          It’s all just a trick to use the State to make people… er… make the state relatively/totally powerless? Which is the only uniting thing in Libertarian thought?

          (Also, er, I assume you meant “right wing”, not “righting”?

          It seems a bit odd to suggest that someone using the Communist blacklist as a negative example must be “the right wing reactionary”.

          As odd as it seems to call it “reactionary” at all to oppose this kind of whiff-of-the-mob, er, reaction to “the Wrong Guy being a CEO”.

          Seriously, do the words you use mean anything?)

    7. So, Tony, why did you support Obama when as President of the US, he held exactly the same position that the ex-CEO held?

      1. I made this point to a proggie friend of mine, she just denied that Obama ever opposed gay marriage.

        1. Take their head and shove it on this and force them to fucking read:

          http://www.politico.com/news/s…..Page2.html

          It’s not evolving. It’s dithering and waiting until the time is “right.”

      2. He evolved on the issue, and Tony evolved, too.

      3. Because the two alternatives I was offered still haven’t evolved yet while he has.

        1. Yet he hadn’t at the times you voted for him. I guess bigotry isn’t bigotry if the right people are doin’ it.

      4. Lefties like Tony are ok believing their betters are lying to them to win elections. They just hate it when uncool people like religious white people hold the same views.

        1. My opposition to John McCain and Mitt Romney did not hinge on the gay marriage question. I think Obama was a bit cowardly on this issue, and their hyperventilation over Biden’s forcing the issue, obviously, an overreaction.

    8. Re: Tony,

      A CEO ousted for being a bigot is a success for both market capitalism and social liberalism.

      How is being against an activity the same as being a bigot? I don’t understand. Are you taking those post-modernist pills again, Tony?

      1. Being against marriage equality for gays has never been convincingly shown to be motivated by anything but bigotry.

        1. Re: Tony,

          Being against marriage equality for gays has never been convincingly shown to be motivated by anything but bigotry.

          Convincingly shown to whom? You? Who gives a fuck about you? Why would a person have to show evidence that his motivations for his beliefs are different than what you say they are? If a person makes an assertion or argues about something, the onus is on him to demonstrate the cogency of his argument or the evidence for his assertion but it is not to prove a negative.

          In my case, I make NO case against allowing gays to marry because I find no compelling moral or ethical reason to stop two people from drafting an agreement and calling it a “marriage”, based on the N.A.P (something you have shown to abhor) and freedom of association. Maybe the recently-ousted CEO of Mozilla had a compelling counterargument, but saying that NOBODY can present a compelling counterargument because people who are against gay marriage are bigots is nothing more than an Ad Hominem attack.

      2. I missed that. He actually claimed it’s good for market capitalism?

        If he understood ‘grey areas’ like he claimed he’d know how market capitalism works when it comes to social issues.

    9. No concern for the IRS leaking the info? Really, you don’t see a problem with that? Who gives a fuck what thought crimes people commit?

      Tony doesn’t give a shit how it happens as long as the right people are hurt. Idiots like him are always shocked and confused when they are the ones put up against the wall.

      1. I think people’s private thoughts shouldn’t always be subject to public scrutiny. I’m a very private person and this means a lot to me actually. I’ll even concede for the sake of argument that a political donation constitutes a private thought.

        But you’re right that I don’t care. He’ll be OK. You should be much more concerned by the fact that you don’t give a shit when everyone who isn’t a CEO suffers.

        1. you don’t give a shit when everyone who isn’t a CEO suffers

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….oh, man. I’m sure you do, though.

          No, don’t tell us: That’s what informs your politics-that you care so much.

          This shitheel is a hoot!

        2. I think people’s private thoughts shouldn’t always be subject to public scrutiny.

          Highlighted for horror.

          So, tell me, when do you think people’s private thoughts should be open to public scrutiny? During political struggle sessions?

          1. When they are Incorrect thoughts, of course.

          2. +1 close reading

          3. What’s even the point in arguing with Tony? He is a fascist totalitarian. He has flatly admitted that he does not care about individual rights to any degree and was once goaded into admitting that he doesn’t think Rosa Parks had a right to sit at the front of the bus.

            He is basically Hitler only too impotent and cowardly to make a move.

    10. “I am the only gay in the village.”

    11. I totally agree.

  5. The gay fascists are celebrating the forced resignation of Brendan Eich.

    http://www.towleroad.com/2014/…..versy.html

    1. FTA, the donation was only $1000?

      1. Yes, it was just a $1000 donation. I follow that website. I don’t think there was anything else to base the outrage on.

        1. If this were logical, IF, wouldn’t the appropriate target be the Mormon Church?

          1. If there was an easy way to target the Mormon Church, the gay Left would do it. The Mormons are routinely ostracized by them.

            1. Mormons make themselves really hard to hate. They are so incredibly nice and polite that I feel like a jerk when I am around them.

              1. You are a jerk. Like in a Steve Martin sorta way though, so its fine.

                1. I fully acknowledge my frat boy-ish behavior. I’m just much more aware of it when I am around polite, nice Mormons.

                  1. I worked with Mormons. Holy crap, more polite than them they don’t get. It took a French-Canadian nationalist asshole (I still remember his name) to make one of them cry for having the audacity to use an English deposit slip.

        2. Well he also donated $2000 to Ron Paul. So maybe this sort of stuff is just a warning shot within the tech industry to redefine ‘libertarian’.

      2. Only $1000. And Eich has never made any public statements that I’m aware of bragging about his support for traditional marriage causes.

        So it’s not even like the Chic-Fil-A kerfuffle.

        1. Nor Obama’s publicly stated opposition to gay marriage around the same time as the donation. Boycott Obama! Pressure him to step down!

          1. Tony might have donated to Obama at the same time.

            Tony must step down!!

            You bigotry will not stand Tony. You must leave Reason Hit and Run and take your hate with you!!

  6. We live in the age of lazy activism. Society has risen to Roddenberrian levels of social tolerance and leisure. Unfortunately, some people still find things to get underwear in a bunch over.

    1. The is more of a social critique. I don’t mind non-coercive boycotts. I just don’t think they mean anything anymore in the age of hypersensitivity and Twitter activism.

  7. It was a crime against humanity to get people fired for being part of a worldwide movement which killed approximately a hundred million people, enslaved and terrorized hundreds of millions more, and endeavored to bring that terror to the entire world.

    But now it’s Social Justice to get someone fired for being against adding another group to the government privileged class of “the married”.

    So sayeth the Progressive Theocracy. So let it be done.

    1. Look at the tactics and goals of the movement you are talking about and tell me how they were different from the Progressives.

    2. Barring adherents of a murderous ideology adhered to by an enemy government from serving in sensitive positions in our own government strikes me less as a travesty and more as common sense. I don’t recall us letting a lot of State Shintoists into the General Staff meetings or enacting government policy during WWII; I don’t see why communists should be given a pass simply because they were fashionable for a short period in in 50s and 60s among intellectuals.

  8. I just uninstalled Mozilla.

    The Fascist Thugs Win One: Firefox CEO Steps Down (Update: IRS Role Exposed)
    …Why, then, the ruckus? Amazingly enough, it is entirely due to the fact that Eich made a $1,000 donation to the campaign urging a ‘yes’ vote on California’s Proposition 8. When this fact first came to light in 2012, after the Internal Revenue Service leaked a copy of the National Organization for Marriage’s 2008 tax return to a gay-advocacy group, Eich, who was then CTO of Mozilla, published a post on his personal blog stating that his donation was not motivated by any sort of animosity towards gays or lesbians, and challenging those who did not believe this to cite any “incident where I displayed hatred, or ever treated someone less than respectfully because of group affinity or individual identity.”..

    1. Holy fuck.

    2. Fascist assholes 1; Liberty 0.

      Such a shame.

  9. It will be a cold day in hell before I switch to Google, or science forbid, go back to internet explorer.

    1. Why do hate the smooth experience of Chrome?

      1. Well, except for looking at Reason on mobile Chrome

      2. I’d move to Chrome except for the inability to set the cache to 0. I occasionally make websites and find it annoying to have to clear it almost every time I make a tweak.

        1. That’s odd — I use chrome as a developer, and I can’t remember the last time I had to flush the cache on chrome. JavaScript (Eich! Prop 8!!! NOES!!!) debugger console is excellent.

        2. Also, a while back I made an effort to move over to Chrome, specifically to use the reasonable ap, and didn’t really find it any faster or smoother than Firefox. I also hate having the tabs above the address bar, which I can customize in FF but not in chrome, so there’s that, too.

          1. You should try Chrome again. It was not so good a while back and now it’s awesome. Especially if you want Flash to not crash.

            1. I never uninstalled it (I check my code on every major browser except Safari [because fuck Safari] so I have all the major ones installed). I keep it updated and I play with it every once in a while. It’s never grown on me.

      3. Some people have a similar level of distrust for Google as they do the government in terms of handling their private data, and consequently prefer to use software designed as an internet browser first rather than software designed as a data collection platform with an internet browser included as a handy bonus feature.

        1. Well it’s pretty sad that Chrome is a better browser as a bonus feature than every other actual purpose-built browser.

    2. Google is the best experience for this site, because of the reasonable add on.

      1. Not on my phone, unfortunately.

        Chrome for phone sucks with reason.

        And I blame reason, mostly.

        1. I still can’t figure out how to navigate and post, and find the new posts, on a phone/ipad

          1. slowly and painfully.

            And on a big thread, both phone and ipad are more or less useless for any kind of conversation.

            1. i’ve used the search function by timestamp to find recent posts, but chrome on ipad keeps closing the search window

      2. I’m a Firefox guy, but Reasonable is a strong argument for Chrome.

      3. The reasonable add on is the best way to read the posts that matter ie mine.

    3. I heard some people were working on a safari port for Linux.

      “Why?” you may ask.

      Don’t. Knowing the answer will only pull you down into a black hole of despair and madness.

    4. So, Safari FTW?

  10. Something’s wrong when Andrew Sullivan is the voice of reason.

    If this is the gay rights movement today ? hounding our opponents with a fanaticism more like the religious right than anyone else ? then count me out. If we are about intimidating the free speech of others, we are no better than the anti-gay bullies who came before us.

    1. Sullivan will forget about this as soon as his hero Obama says some banal nicety about a gay baseball player or something.

    2. The end times are nigh?

    3. Sully was entirely tolerable up until somewhere in 2007, 2008. When Sarah Palin emerged, his brain went derp

  11. The real reason this guy should resign is because FireFox sucks. I gave it a serious spin several months ago-really wanted to like it-but I gave up after the bazillionth crash while trying to get YouTube or any other Flash-dependent thing to work.

    1. Re: Cytotoxic,

      Concur, completely. I gave up on Firefox a few months ago and especially since Google improved their Chrome browser so much.

      1. I too, was a loyal Firefox user, until I experienced how much smoother and more streamlined chrome is. I’ve not been back since, except when I accidentally click a link in Word, and Firefox opens up.

        1. I shall only switch to chrome when my Blog stats show more chrome users then Firefox users visiting it.

          Of course i am the only person who reads my blog and use Firefox so I doubt I will ever be switching.

          1. You need to put the link to your blog in your name here, rather than email!

        2. All the browsers suck at this point. Chrome is the best of the major ones, but I see IE and Firefox on the same level now. It’s what happens when you build a giant monstrosity of code and don’t make any sort of attempt to write efficient code.

          Firefox was great when IE didn’t have tabs yet. Firefox was great when chrome had no extensions. Firefox is slow and underwhelming now that there are two full featured competitors.

      2. Funny I was switching from Chrome to FF because Chrome was being crummy at the time. I guess Google learned their lesson and tightened things up.

      3. I’m gonna quit Firefox – but I really don’t trust Google at all. Anyone have any experience with Opera?

        1. Opera is great. The fastest browser out there. It just does not always work. But it has gotten better at that.

    2. Completely agree. It is a shame Firefox is not better, but my sympathy with Mr. Eich isn’t about to make me switch to an inferior browser.

      1. If you sympathize with Eich, then your browser probably has evidence of that. Now all it takes is for someone at Mozilla to figure out how to get that info into YOUR employers hands and get you fired too.

    3. I had to go through a bunch of rigamarole to fix an issue with HTML5 audio support, but that’s done in the beta, and I think in the release version now as well. So yeah, I used to be a Chrome guy until I started doing a lot of web dev stuff, and then once I got into some more security stuff, but as much as I love FF for those two factors, when it fails, it fails miserably.

    4. The Flash plugin does indeed suck and is crash-happy, but it’s not a part of Firefox – it’s an add-on coded by Adobe. In other news, Flash is a resource-sucking piece of shit. Regardless of what browser you use, you’ll be a lot happier using HTML5 where it’s available.

      1. Flash is a resource-sucking piece of shit.

        That happens to enable YouTube and a whole bunch of other stuff and doesn’t seem to crash when I use it in Chrome. I am thinking the problem is FireFox one way or another.

  12. The article buries the lede, thought some commenters bring it up:

    The Internal Revenue Service illegally leaked a list of donors to the National Organization for Marriage. This guy’s name was on the list, hence the trouble.

    This is not the market at work, this is the government forcing organizations to list their contributors, then leaking the information to the public.

    1. Not all of the information, only information that is red meat for people of the proper political persuasion.

    2. Just some rogue IRS operators in some flyover state. Nothing to see here.

      1. Not a smidgen of corruption.

    3. When Jim Crow Alabama sought to find out who belonged to the state NAACP, the US Supreme Court rebuked the state:

      “”Immunity from state scrutiny of petitioner’s membership lists is here so related to the right of [the NAACP]’s members to pursue their lawful private interests privately and to associate freely with others in doing so as to come within the protection of the Fourteenth Amendment” and, further, that freedom to associate with organizations dedicated to the “advancement of beliefs and ideas” is an inseparable part of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The action of the state’s obtaining the names of the Association’s membership would likely interfere with the free association of its members, so the state’s interest in obtaining the records was superseded by the constitutional rights of the petitioners.”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N…..v._Alabama

      1. so therefor the IRS should have no grounds to know who is making contributions

    4. I think the first problem is the guy’s bigotry. Sure he has a right to it. Let him buy a TV station airing stuff all about his opinions. Let him express his free speech by buying elected officials for that matter, since that special form of free speech has been liberated by our gracious robed overlords. But last I checked nobody had a god-given right to be a CEO. Such soft mittens you handle the little tragedies of CEOs with while you tell their workers that their entire livelihoods are supposed to be at the whims of such men, and that they shut up and take it because that’s the most moral system.

      1. …”that special form of free speech”…

        Shitpile, it makes no difference whether it is “special”:
        “…Congress shall make no law…”
        See that word “no”, shitpile? See it? Look at it closely.

      2. Re: Tony,

        I think the first problem is the guy’s bigotry.

        Problem for whom?

        You? Who gives a fuck?
        The shareholders of Mozilla? I don’t think so.

        Why do you continue to say that being against an activity is the same as being a bigot?

        Let him express his free speech by buying elected officials for that matter, since that special form of free speech has been liberated by our gracious robed overlords.

        “Free speech should be free as long as it does not offend me!”

        1. Evidently it may have been a problem for the shareholders of Mozilla.

          I’m a free speech maximalist dude. I’m just not confused about the fact that criticism of people you agree with is also protected speech.

          1. Re: Tony,

            Evidently it may have been a problem for the shareholders of Mozilla.

            Maybe. Maybe only the employees.

            I’m a free speech maximalist dude.

            Tony, baby, c’mon – it’s me! I’m not some noob that found this site by accident, so stop lying. You’re no more a freedom maximalist than Kim Jong Un.

            I’m just not confused about the fact that criticism of people you agree with is also protected speech.

            I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean or what it has to do with the creepy comment you posted above. It is one thing to criticize a person for his ideas if you believe they’re wrong, quite another to revel on the fact the person was bullied into resigning because of those ideas, notwithstanding the fact that he indeed has no right to be CEO which is corollary to the axiom that nobody has a right to a job – you do agree that the two are the same, right?

            1. My only reveling is over the fact that gay equality has such social force as to get CEOs fired.

              But I am allowed to revel at whatever the fuck I want. All I’m saying is Nick is being suspiciously selective in his outrage. Is tomorrow gonna be about the poor put-upon Kochs? Or does reason not like to talk about their benefactors as a rule?

              1. ‘My only reveling is over the fact that gay equality has such social force as to get CEOs fired.’

                Actually, I predict this will unleash unintended consequences. Not that you’ll recognize it because you’re evil.

                This is not how you win ‘hearts and minds.’ I’m starting to get pissed off with fanatical gays and feminists.

                They’re starting to take up too much space when it comes to threatening freedom.

                1. This.

                  I generally support gay rights, but when gay rights becomes about pushing to fire people, especially ones that seem to be productive and in other areas well meaning, just for contributing to an anti-gay marriage organization, it loses me.

                  1. I started to question the movement when they attacked chicken sandwiches. Don’t fuck with my spicy chicken sandwich, gays. If I’ve got to choose, I’m going to clutch that crispy chicken in the iron hand of tyranny, baby.

                  2. And lets not forget the “gay rights” supporters seeking out bakeries owned by religious people and using legal warfare to shut them down when there are 10 bakeries down the street that will gladly bake their “gay marriage” cake (and “gay marriage” is illegal in Colorado).

                    The tolerant intolerance is just beginning.

                    1. “Those meddling mixed-raced couples, why don’t they just shut up about their stupid rights. It’s not like it affects me, and I’m the only one who matters in the fucking universe!”

                    2. …except that that makes no sense, because damn near everyone here has supported the right of gay people to get married. I realize that subtlety in argumentation isn’t your strong point, though.

          2. …you say, replying to a subthread addressing the chilling effects of a politically-motivated leak by some IRS stooge.

          3. The Mozilla Foundation (sole owner of Mozilla Corporation) has no “shareholders”.

            It’s a 501(c)(3) directed by its Board.

            Per its Bylaws, the Foundation has no members, just the Board of 5-15 people, elected solely by said Board.

            The Mozilla Corporation’s board is appointed and controlled by the Foundation’s board.

            So, no. No shareholders.

            1. Tony can’t differentiate between non-profit and for-profit corporations, all he knows is CEO = bad. So if an organization has a CEO, it is bad. And call capitalisty. QED.

          4. Tony|4.3.14 @ 7:50PM|#
            “I’m a free speech maximalist dude.”

            You’re a lying asshole, shitpile.

      3. My God Tony.

        You really are evil.

        And profoundly evil-stupid.

        “But last I checked nobody had a god-given right to be a CEO.”

        Fuck. Evil.

        1. They do have a god-given right to the CEO’s money, though.

      4. last I checked nobody had a god-given right to be a CEO.

        Maybe you should check again dipshit because yes everyone has the right to be a CEO of any company willing to name them as one. They also have a right not have their personal information leaked by the government.

      5. All I hear is “I’ll have another Bacardi and Coke please Myfanwy.”

    5. I am thinking that he can sue the dogshit out of the IRS. What they did was illegal and caused him considerable damage. I don’t see how they could shield themselves.

      1. Doesn’t the IRS have immunity?

        1. Effective immunity, if not legal immunity.

        2. I would think that when they act illegally they lose that. One of the many lawyers here could answer better than I can.

          1. Correct – and it sure looks like he can show damages for the intentional misconduct too.

    6. Reality is that this stuff was in the LA Times in 2008 and was part of the CA Secy of State’s list re Prop8 itself. There is nothing ‘new’ about the controversy. The only thing ‘new’ is that he was just promoted to CEO and those with an agenda decided to resurrect an old controversy.

  13. I feel like the recent Reason event with Jonathan Rauch touched on a lot of the same issues that have come up in the Mozilla row. Especially in his discussion of the Ender’s Game boycotts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFVRRP-J9mI#t=33m57s

    Also, I see a lot of people (like Tony above) engaging in a shallow and disingenuous parroting of the libertarian perspectives that free speech can nevertheless carry personal consequences, and that the market can help moderate bigotry. It’s possible to endorse both those ideas and still think that the specific consequences being visited on Eich for a misguided $1,000 donation in 2008 are excessive.

    Barack Obama publicly opposed gay marriage in 2008, and he had about a million times the reach of Eich’s Prop 8 money.

    1. Agreed. And no one here is suggesting that Eich’s contribution nor the pearl-clutching response to it should be illegal, so “free speech” is not the issue.

      The issue is the disproportional outcry to an act eight years ago of very minimal support of a position that was not then–nor is not now–out of the mainstream, despite attempts to paint that position as “bigotry” and brand its supporters as unfit for polite society.

      It’s a stupid, hysterical overreaction that should not get results but did, which does not bode well for any social tempering of this nonsense in the future.

      1. Exactly right. The “tolerant” leftists won’t tolerate any dissent. It is going to get much worse.

    2. It’s possible to endorse both those ideas and still think that the specific consequences being visited on Eich for a misguided $1,000 donation in 2008 are excessive.

      Well said.

  14. I’ve always liked Firefox. The only thing annoying about it is that it updates about 300 times a day. It’s like the Drudge Report of browsers.

    I have to support IE, Firefox, and Chrome in my applications, because I have clients who use those browsers. Thank God, I don’t have any Safari users, or if I do, I don’t know about it. I hate Apple with a passion and will NEVER own one of their shitty products. And the comments from their new CEO about AGW deniers not buying their stock, pretty much sealed that deal, forever.

    1. I used it and liked it until they switched to their rapid release cycle. Seemed like it was always screwing with the add ons. Chrome has done well for me since.

    2. Well before you crucify me for admitting my fetish for apple products, I want to ask, why the hell is the left vilifying Apple for this? When the labor force they employ in China isn’t exactly treated…. “fairly”, to use a prog buzzword. Why aren’t I hearing any demands of resignation based on that tidbit?

      1. Did you know that China doesn’t even recognize same-sex marriages? True story! It’s like they are the United States circa 2012!

        Apple should be boycotted until they make restitution by spending all would-be profit on lobbying the Chinese government for a change in policy.

        1. Sarcasm aside, how does one deal with the amount of dissonance that arises from these proggie views? “Well yeah, he uses Chinese labor, but so does everyone else! And, AGW is more important, anyways!” For the record, I couldn’t give two shits where my iphone is made, as long as that fucking home button doesn’t get all schitzo on me within a year of purchase.

          1. Yeah, beats me. All I know is you can’t argue against feelings with logic.

            I’ve had the same conversation on the right about the political views of the entertainment industry. So what? I still think Alec Baldwin and Tina Fey were awesome on 30 Rock, and I love the movie Cradle Will Rock despite its pro-communist message. I don’t need to have a fucking social/political dossier on every product I buy or movie I watch.

            1. Not only do I love 30 Rock and The Cradle Will Rock, but I also love Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger which makes me far more opened minded than the average so-called open minded prog.

      2. I’m not going to crucify you dude. I have friends who love Apple products. That’s their biz. I have one in my house, an iPad 2, which I gave to my wife. She now wants an ASUS android tablet to replace it, and gave up her iPhone for a Samsung Galaxy. I am guessing that the iPad 2 will be the last Apple product in our house, for the foreseeable future.

      3. I seem to recall Apple catching some flack some months ago over some kerfuffle with Foxconn. But I agree that they are usually excepted from the corporation hate.

    3. Hating Apple makes up for liking shitty browsers.

  15. I’m torn here. On one hand I’m upset about Eich’s resignation as I consider winning a political debate by going after the opponent’s employer to be dirty pool.

    On the other had… OMG, the sweet hammy tears from all the internet tough guys that comment here is hilarious.

    1. On the other had… OMG, the sweet hammy tears from all the internet tough guys that comment here is hilarious.

      What is this non-sequitur supposed to be in reference to?

  16. A CEO being ousted for his allegiances with communist organizations is a victory for capitalism and social liberalism. No government required. Well, except the reporting requirements for campaign contributions which allows us to track the political views of everyone on the planet and then pelt them with rocks and garbage when we find something we don’t agree with. But other than that government which forces you to publicly declare your allegiances, it’s all free-market capitalism all the way down.

  17. I’m torn now. I despise the politicization of everything that boycotts represent, yet I find myself powerfully tempted to dump the FireFox browser on my home computer because Mozilla has really, IMO, shown its ass on this.

    I can probably live with myself if I only do retaliatory boycotts against companies that have voluntarily and intentionally politicized themselves. Yeah, that’s the ticket: If you jump into the political arena, you are fair game for a boycott.

    1. I haven’t used Firefox since Mozilla implemented their rapid release cycle insanity. My slightly reluctant recommendation is Opera, though any version after 12.16 stripped out a lot of the functionality that made it awesome. The Chrome browser is an unwanted intruder on my PC.

    2. While boycotts can result in the obnoxious politicization of even the most trivial issues, I would still prefer a system where freedom of association and freedom of contract are respected by the government, and where all employment and business transactions are truly voluntary, and then let people use social and political pressure to provide or withhold their support of products and services accordingly.

    3. I’m not dropping Firefox because I want to make some statement or boycott them. I’m dropping them because I assume they have no problem punishing people for thought crimes.

      If they are willing to do this to their CEO, you can sure as hell bet that they will be willing to figure out a way to punish their ‘customers’ for thought crimes too. And I’m not interested in participating in that experiment.

  18. My thoughts when I first read the news about this my internal dialog went as follows:

    Personality 1: Does the CEO’s position on teh gayz have anything to do with web browsers?

    Personality 2: No.

    Personality 1: Zero craps given, zero crap received.

  19. It’s events like this that really make me step back and seriously reconsider my support for same-sex marriage. It isn’t that I question the morality of it at all, but more so that I really cringe at being associated with the howling mobs. If these people were to be given full reign over our legal system, Brendan Eich would be relegated to roaming the country as a modern day homo sacer, nervously anticipating the moment someone might bludgeon him to death with impunity.

    1. Don’t base your assessment of the morally correct position based on some of the crazies who also hold it. I mean… look at the company you keep.

      1. And this is supposed to ingratiate me to your opinion…how, exactly?

        1. And this is supposed to ingratiate me to your opinion…how, exactly?

          It’s not…but most of the gay community is just fine and shouldn’t (won’t) be judged by the actions of this one pink Nazi! I’m sure Tony is goose stepping around his studio apartment in ass-less chaps as he continues to befoul this thread.

      2. Also, you should probably revisit what I posted before spewing forth your drivel. Clearly reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

      3. look at the company you keep

        I think someone ought to teach this to Tony.

      4. The only company I keep is that of distilled spirits.

        1. Sounds spooky.

    2. Stand on principle. Forget who else does or does not support it. Never become untethered from your principles.

      People like Tony have no clue what I am saying. For him it is just fine that this guy has his life derailed and it is inconsequential to him that it was started by a monstrous agency that is beginning to resemble something from the old communist block than an american institution.

      I have no problem supporting gay marriage and decrying what these scum have done.l

      1. Don’t get me wrong – I will always stand on principle. Speaking of principles, will Tony now boycott everything coded in JavaScript?

        1. Jesus, will OK Cupid? Welcome to 1998, web surfers!

          1. Will OKCupid boycott itself for using JavaScript technologies like AJAX and jQuery?

            http://builtwith.com/okcupid.com

      2. Progressives are lead by the expedient of the moment. Consistency, philosophy, and morality are not merely foreign terms to the progressive mindset, they’re antithetical.. Getting party hacks elected, silencing critics, rooting out heretics from their midst, and above all growing the power of the State is the progressive directive. It’s rapturous power revelry the whole way down.

        1. It’s taken me many years to get to this point but I’m comfortable with my conclusion progressives are not only dumb, racist, anti-intellectual, anti-liberty and immoral people but that they’re evil as well.

          Like I said. It’s good they hate guns because they know if it’s in their hands they will be trigger happy.

          1. Your average Proggie lacks the self-restraint and discipline required to wield a firearm without being a threat to himself and the public.

    3. As I said elsewhere, this is not the end of the story but the beginning of the beginning. Expect school teachers or principals to be fired for doing things like donating to traditional marriage coalitions.

      These people love their own personal liberties, they hate other people’s.

  20. People always get confused when I say I oppose same-sex marriage. I have to follow it up quickly with the statement that I oppose any legal definition of marriage.

  21. Hey, Tony. Are you going to get a job, or not? Or do you admit that you think the rest of us should support your sorry ass? Or just that you have no talent.

    Come on, confess.

    1. Next thing you know he’s gonna sue his state to pay for his sex change like a convicted murderer did in Massachusetts – and won.

    2. Tony has a job: Media Matters gives him 50 cents for every troll comment he posts here.

      1. Media Matters gives him 50 cents for every troll comment he posts here.

        …and yet he has the gall to complain about his fellow billionaires.

  22. OT, but some of the comments from the Koch article in the WSJ that Sudden posted in the PM links are too good to pass up

    Richard H. Allbritton Wrote:

    Charles Koch is a living example of why we should have draconian estate taxes. He is either delusional or a dangerous con artist or both. For years, he and his brother have spent massive amounts of money on secret organizations designed to undermine democracy and push their hidden agendas one of which is to undermine or repeal regulations that protect our rivers, streams, harbors, and air. He talks of liberty and freedom while creating secret political organizations run by acolytes. I’m reminded of the Roman Senators who secretly schemed against Julius Caesar and ultimately assassinated him. They claimed they did it all in the name of the Republic and freedom. What had them really upset was that Caesar wanted to stop the richest men in Rome, namely them, from taking over the land of farmers and using slave labor. He was going to sponsor legislation that required them to be job creators. Thus, they called him a tyrant.

    It is disgusting to see oligarchs like Charles Koch twist language and seek to buy elections while pretending to care deeply for liberty and the people.

    1. Hey, gotta keep the Empire strong!

      1. I’m no aficionado of Roman history, but maybe Caesar marching an army into Rome and taking power had something to do with the whole tyrant thing?

        1. Yup.

          Cicero – an brilliant orator and conservative – challenged him desperately trying to restore the Republic.

          And. Well. Chop, chop.

          1. Well in Cicero’s defense he at least made it to the second triumvirate. Nasty end though: head and hands nailed to the rostrum.

    2. What had them really upset was that Caesar wanted to stop the richest men in Rome, namely them, from taking over the land of farmers and using slave labor.

      Caesar was tyrant who filled Rome and its lands with slaves from Gaul.

      Also he helped put down Spartacus’s slave rebellion.

    3. I also love how they can claim that the Koch’s are only successful because they inherited $100 million, and then turn around and claim they “spent massive amounts of money on secret organizations designed to undermine democracy and push their hidden agendas”. Because $100 million doesn’t go that far these days with the Illuminati.

      1. Progs hatred of inheritance is bizarre and rooted in envy. My liberal friend hates it because he claims the kids become lazy and are more worthless than those on welfare.

        1. It’s easy to think that if you believe that every one who inherits wealth ends up on Rich Kids of Instagram. But I don’t think that is the norm. And even if it is, those kids will probably OD lonely and full of self loathing.

    4. …”push their hidden agendas one of which is”…

      I think this guy is confused; what’s hidden?

      1. C’mon Sevo, the political organizations that the Kock’s secretly fund are well known.

    5. For years, he and his brother have spent massive amounts of money on secret organizations designed to undermine democracy and push their hidden agendas one of which is to undermine or repeal regulations that protect our rivers, streams, harbors, and air.

      If their agenda is to repeal such-and-such regulations, how is their agenda “hidden”? If their organizations are secret, how does the commentator know about them?

      Or am I just supposed to recoil in terror at the magic words “hidden” and “secret”?

  23. Also, this one

    Paula Dowling Wrote:

    Thank you Mr. Koch for that load

    There is more, but taking it out of context seems like a much better launching point for Monocle Auction/Doomcock crossover fan fiction.

    1. I’m not gonna try to look it up, but is that a F’real post?

      If so, get her a writing gig on Workaholics. Or, Something.

      1. I may have cut off a little bit from the end of the sentence…

        1. I don’t care, it’s the funniest thing I’ve read today. And the rest of you are doing beautifully, BTW.

          Thanks for that, LP.

          1. If you missed it, I strongly urge you to check out the PM links for Sudden’s Auction Monocle story.

  24. Wow, Raw Story deleted my post which referred to the fact that Barack Obama, like Eich, was opposed to same-sex marriage in 2008 and it was thus hypocritical for anyone to call Eich a bigot while standing by their vote for him in 2008.

    1. Not to mention the 58 to 70 percent (depending on which polls you feel are more accurate) of African-Americans that voted for Proposition 8.

      Quick! To the Boycottmobile!

      1. In solidarity with men who love my cock (since I also have love for my cock), I will continue my ongoing boycott of all things Tyler Perry.

  25. And apparently this exists and has enough money to run a candidate in my riding. I’m tempted to sign up for the email list just for the LOLs.

  26. Bigotry – you use that word but don’t know what it means

  27. I think someone should launch a disparate impact lawsuit against Firefox. After all it is well known that Blacks are more likely to oppose gay marriage than Whites. Can they justify it using the profit motive? I don’t think so.

    1. You must be the illegitimate love child of Tony and Murikan.

      1. ICM is running a ‘womunz is victimz’ rant over on the NASA thread. Pretty sure it’s just a run-of-the-mill lefty hack imagining it’s presenting us with brand new viewpoints we’ve never seen before!

        1. The timing made me think that it’s one of Tony’s loser skid row drunk friends. They were probably collecting cans to sell for their next bottle of Boones Farm, before Tony’s mom reluctantly let them into the basement and onto the internet.

        2. I didn’t say that women are victims. You are completely misrepresenting my point.

          1. OooooKay, here’s the quote:
            “Tell me libertarians, how does prostitution NOT lead to inequality among the genders? It does, because men are the consumers and women are the product.”

            1. That’s not the same thing as saying that women are the victims. Men and women are simply unequal, and that contradicts the stated libertarian goal of a world where men and women are equal, the same goal of the feminists.

              1. Men and women are simply unequal, and that contradicts the stated libertarian goal of a world where men and women are equal, the same goal of the feminists.

                My goal isn’t to make men and women equal. My goal is to allow both men and women to be free so that they can make their own choices, live their own lives, and construct a life that is happy and meaningful to them personally.

                If that means equality, then great. If that means they choose to live different lives and be ‘unequal’ then fine.

                I don’t know where you got the idea that we give a shit about equality. I think people should live their own lives, and if differences in choice result in inequality, which it will, I’m perfectly fine with that.

                1. I don’t know where you got the idea that we give a shit about equality.

                  Maybe because I see so much blank slate bullshit on this website.

                  1. I like when people come here, find one article, and then say that we all must agree with that article.

                    You made the blanket statement that ‘libertarians’ believe X and all you actually proved is that Sharon Presley believes it. Weak sauce.

                    1. No, evidently Gillespe and his cronies believe it also or they wouldn’t have had it put on their website.

                    2. I like when people come here, find one article, and then say that we all must agree with that article.

                      Progressives can’t quite wrap their heads around the idea that we don’t follow top down marching orders.

                  2. “Maybe because I see so much blank slate bullshit on this website.”

                    Maybe you should read what you link:
                    “For one thing, 19th-century individualist feminists were not “radical egalitarians,” as Sommers claims. Nor did they believe that “men and women are essentially identical,” as one of her tables claims. Not one of these feminists ever said that.”
                    Man, you ARE a brain-dead lefty!

                    1. You are either lying or stupid:

                      Nor does she back up her claims about the “differences” between women and men. In fact, the consensus among most serious scientists who do gender research?neuroscientist Lise Eliot, psychologist Janet Hyde, neuropsychologist Melissa Hines, and biologist Anne Fausto-Sterling, for example?is that the behavioral and cognitive differences between women and men are not nearly as great as the average person (or Sommers) imagines. There is almost certainly a small genetic component, but it is less overall than the contributions of multitudes of cultural, family, and individual environmental influences. Anthropological research on gender bears this out; scholars such as Peggy Reeves Sanday have shown there is more variation in gender roles than Sommers apparently assumes. From a feminist point of view?and from an individualist one?Sommers’ stereotyping is unacceptable. We should be looking at the merits and choices of each person as an individual, not as a member of a particular biological group.

                    2. You do know that the person Presley was disagreeing with, Christina Hoff Sommers, has written here too.

                      Christina Hoff Sommers does not believe that men and women are inherently equal, Presley believes that they are. So if both have written for this site, which one of them represents the views of all the writers here?

                      Oh, I know! Maybe, just maybe, people with different views can write for the same website and magazine. As such, your bizarre argument that we all agree with Presley’s article is obviously ridiculous as not all of the writers for Reason would even agree with it.

                    3. Ice Cream Man|4.3.14 @ 9:38PM|#
                      “You are either lying or stupid:”

                      I don’t know to whom that was directed, but if it was me, I pulled my quote from your link, and the entire quote you offer is nothing other than a discussion about how the genders *do* differ.
                      So neither claims total equality and as Irish mentions, neither Presley nor Hoff speak for the site or the people posting here.
                      Would you like to stop digging, or should I get you a fresh shovel?

                    4. most serious scientists who do gender research?neuroscientist Lise Eliot, psychologist Janet Hyde, neuropsychologist Melissa Hines, and biologist Anne Fausto-Sterling

                      Thas one shitload of lady professor psuedoscience broads.

              2. If you say so…

          2. Well, yes, that is pretty much exactly what you said.

    2. “Blacks are more likely to oppose gay marriage than Whites”

      Is this still true today after Obama’s conversion on the issue?

      1. Yep. Blacks don’t just blindly follow their leaders, as certain individuals insinuate.

        1. I could have sworn I read poll results that after his announcement the numbers jumped.

          1. According to this support jumped from 27% (63% opposed)in 2003 to 40% (48% opposed) in 2013. The percent opposed was only slightly higher than that for whites, by 5%.

            And its 2014.

    3. I have become a fan of Java, MySQL, and VirtualBox. I haven’t payed a dime for any of it, but I am aware that all of this is hosted and maintained by Oracle Corporation. Oracle has a flag in Redwood City, CA but much its operations are handled by Mormons in Utah.

      1. Java? Blecht!

        Why, for the sake of humanity?

      2. MySQL? Blecht!

        Why, for the sake of humanity?

  28. I use Chrome because its fast. Needless to say, the ladies love me.

    Leo Laport, the Tech Guy, makes another argument for using Chrome. Google does the deepest, most thorough scanning of the Internet. In so doing it is the first to detect malicious code. Firefox has no companion watchdog like Chrome does.

    1. Bing is, however, the best search engine.

      1. Yep.

        Taking their challenge convinced me.

        Of course, DuckDuckGo doesn’t track you ….

        1. It doesn’t track you, and doesn’t find shit.

          So it’s got that going for it, (:

      2. Bing is, however, the best search engine.

        WTF am I reading? Bing is the MySpace of search engines.

        doesn’t find shit

        Yes it does. It’s my default search engine because it works and doesn’t track me.

        1. I still maintain that MySpace was superior to facebook. Myspace is dead, long live myspace!

          1. MySpace still exists, having been revamped several times. It’s just that nobody uses it.

          2. GIFs worked on MySpace.You could fill up your screen with pictures too. I like tumblr but no one I know uses it as “social media”, just as a blogging platform.

          3. I still maintain that MySpace was superior to facebook.

            So you’re a goth/nofriends/artistic fag.

            Whatever. FB sucks anyway. If you’re going to the social shit, use Google Circles.

            1. google circles? i have more than five friends.

        2. DuckDuckGo is freaking putrid. Come on now.

          1. For one thing, you’re (ostensibly) a libertarian you have to like it. Second, it works. I don’t even understand your criticism.

      3. I’ve become so attached to entering my search query directly into the URL field of Chrome the thought of even typing http://www.google.com or http://www.bing.com stretches my patience.

        I need time to go the gym three days a week and can’t be bothered with finger exercises.

        1. Bing is the superior search engine. That did not used to be true. But try it against Google now and you will see what I mean.

          1. Ugh okay. Can I still use it in the Chrome URL field?

            1. I doubt that Google wants you to do that.

              I made Bing my home page, so I don’t have to type the URL in to use it.

              Google still has the superior maps and language translation features. Images, videos, are about the same now.

              For a search engine, for me, Bing is the best and I have to depend on it every day for my work, so it’s important for me.

          2. I’ll give it some tries.

          3. I actually just did a side-by-side blind comparison of Bing vs Google for a study about a week ago and picked Google 9/10 times. My experience has been that Bing’s results are usually similar to the 2nd or 3rd page of Google results – the crap that only tangentially relates to the search term. But to each his own.

  29. I get it that we aren’t supposed to bash the blacks, the Catholics, or the Jews. But why do commenters on this website call me a “homophobe”(as if it’s a bad thing) for bashing the faggots? Come on, we need to be able to bash someone.

    1. …”why do commenters on this website call me a “homophobe”(as if it’s a bad thing) for bashing the faggots?”…

      Because you are. And a bigot besides.

    2. You should start a support group with this guy. Sounds like the two of you need to do some more studying on this gay thing.

    3. Remember Chain Link, only Christians and Southern White Men can be bigots and are therefore worthy of being bashed. Remember also that in this country, religious freedom means being free from ever having to hear about religion — especially the Judeo-Christian kind.

      So for example, if you’re a white man who invents JavaScript and doesn’t support gay marriage, you’re a bigot. But if you’re a black man community organizer who doesn’t support gay marriage, you become president. Understood?

      1. The problem with bashing white people is that they don’t get all bent out of shape about it. If you say to white men that they are unathletic, they’ll be like “yep, that’s us.” But if you bash faggots for the disgusting sex acts and for their sissy accents they’ll go in a rage about how you’re trying to crucify them. It’s much more entertaining.

        1. I’m assuming you’re being sarcastic. I can never tell around here tho.

        2. If you say to white men that they are unathletic, they’ll be like “yep, that’s us.”

          I won’t admit to something patently untrue. I’ll just ignore it.

        3. ^^ I’m not sure if this is a joke and I’m horrified to ask.

  30. “Mozilla believes both in equality and freedom of speech. Equality is necessary for meaningful speech. And you need free speech to fight for equality. Figuring out how to stand for both at the same time can be hard.”

    Would someone *kindly* translate this into, um, “meaningful speech”?

    1. Thinking can be very hard. Especially for those who make totally nonsensical and meaningless statements like that.

      It’s sort of like the global warming religion.

      If it rains, it’s global warming.

      If it’s dry, it’s global warming.

      If it’s hot, it’s global warming.

      If it’s cold, it’s global warming.

      Climate isn’t weather, except for when we say it is.

      IOW, we like to make ambiguous and contradictory statements that no one can pin down to make an argument against. We are right when we are right, and when we are wrong, we are still right.

      This is the modus operandi of the modern left.

    2. “We are for free speech until it bothers us, and all things which bother us will henceforth be labelled ‘unequal’.”

      BTW, I imagine that Mr. Frederick Douglass and MLK will both be surprised to hear that their exercise of free speech was not “meaningful”.

    3. “Would someone *kindly* translate this into, um, “meaningful speech”?”

      Pretty sure it translates to:
      ‘We think your comments are gonna cost us market share and money. Take a hike.’

    4. Thanks for your thoughts, guys.

      I’ll add that this utterance is almost worthy of Martin O’Malley.

      1. Martin O’Malley. Vomit.

  31. It is awful that anyone has to report who they donated to and this demonstrates why. This is yet another case where cryptocurrency will step in: anonymous politics.

    1. “It is awful that anyone has to report who they donated to and this demonstrates why.”

      I think that those who report donations do so willingly. Anyone so inclined can donate cash anonymously.

  32. Nick sez:

    Now we’re boycotting free products such as Firefox and demanding companies dance to the tune called by customers. I think that’s a good thing overall

    Is it, Nick? There isn’t really much of a libertarian perspective to this outside of that it should be legal for customers to do this — but is it also generally a good thing if this occurs frequently? I think not, and here’s why:

    I can and will argue and persuade as to why one should agree with me and my principles of course, but boycotting people to compel them to do so or starve is merely a milder version of when a CEO tells his secretary to bend over and take it as a condition to keeping her job. They are both attempts to use mob tactics or economic pull to get a person to abandon their principles by acquiescing to your will, and the only thing such a thing breeds is resentment, not reason or morality.

    If we were to boycott all Christians until they renounce God, or all atheists until they convert to Islam, that would not be a statement of principle on our part but an instrument of control and an example of petulance on the part of the boycotters (regardless of their level of success). Frankly, if you think market actions are about controlling other people and their deepest beliefs I question your commitment to the rest of the liberty program.

    1. Now don’t go and start making sense Trouser!

    2. Another thing, Nick. This:

      Just as the Internet has empowered consumers to find cheaper prices, more-extensive reviews, and a wider variety of goods than ever before, it’s also made it easier for them to call out companies for all sorts of dastardly actions, screw-ups, and problems.

      Is completely different from boycotts based on the personal beliefs of people working for the company. There is no evidence — none at all — that this boycott had anything to do with “dastardly actions, screw-ups, and problems” on the part of Mozilla.

      Conservatives should like the fact that this was done without calling for government action, even if they aren’t fans of gay marriage.

      That is a low bar to clear. “Yay for thugs not involving government… this time” isn’t exactly praise-worthy.

      Increasingly, we will be asking ourselves what sorts of non-business-related policies companies have

      Mozilla is not being boycotted on account of a policy. It is being hounded for a hiring decision.

      Seriously, fuck you Nick.

  33. That’s it, I’m cancelling my subscription to Mozilla.

    1. There’s a subscription?

    2. You could always sign the petition.

      That and $1.25 will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

  34. I discovered something pretty hilarious. From Matt Kibbe’s new book’s Amazon page. There are 9 reviews so far. 7 of them are five star reviews and two are one star reviews. Both one star reviews admit they haven’t read the book, and go off on hysterical tangents about how evil their political opponents are. These reviews are wonderful.

    There is more than one way to hurt someone. You can hurt someone by doing something to them, but you can also hurt someone by failing to help them when they need you and you are able to help. Libertarianism is a scam on people who confuse the political left and the right. libertarians appeal to the extreme right and the extreme left at the same time, and bet that the victim does not understand inconsistent thinking. Once in power they dump the left and become fascists. Mussolini and Hitler used this strategy. People are social beings. That’s what civilization is. Even libertarians need other people. They need protection by the law. The law is a part of the government. Weakening the government is not freedom, it’s anarchy, and that belongs to the right, not the left. Corrupt government is bad, but no government is worse. It’s throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Read the history of how the fascists came to power in Italy and Germany.Same game plan.

    1. 2nd one:

      Matt Kibbe, the Teabagger-in-Chief, has a whole book that talks about how much he wants the government to leave individuals alone. If that’s the case, then he should disavow himself from the Tea Party lest he wish to admit that he’s a hypocrite. The Teabaggers are the ones who want to hurt people and take your stuff. But it’s more than that. The Teabaggers want to take your rights and your liberty by transforming this country into a right-wing theocracy like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

      I have long suggested that people like Kibbe pack their bags and move to the Middle East since many countries practice their ideal style of government. I think they’d be a lot happier. The Teabaggers are, by and large, a very miserable lot of people who only seek to do harm to their fellow Americans. Luckily for the rest of us, their 15 minutes of fame are just about over. Just two more election cycles worth of clown car candidates shooting their mouths off and spouting outrageous right-wing doo doo and they’ll be a mere footnote in the history books.

      These are two intellectual powerhouses right here.

      1. Check out the commenter’s other reviews: http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/p….._cr_pr_pdp

        1. Holy fuck:

          Who ever believed that capitalism would reduce inequality. Capitalism increases inequality. I think the best way to understand how people missed this is to understand that wealth is not created, only redistributed. You don’t make money you take money. Capitalism eats up the public sector which is the only thing big enough to protect consumers from private sector exploitation. There is a case for a strong central government that is not corrupt. Notice that it is the right wing conservative republicans who block efforts to get the corruption out of government. Citizens United came from the right, not the left. firewalleconomics.com

          Wealth is not created, only redistributed. This is why we are all still fighting for control of the first bushel of wheat humanity ever produced: Because there is no such thing as wealth creation.

          1. “This is why we are all still fighting for control of the first bushel of wheat humanity ever produced: Because there is no such thing as wealth creation.”

            It wasn’t wheat, it was lichen. And there was only enough for Ooog, not Ooog and Uuug.
            And there still isn’t since the Kochs are hoarding it all!

            1. Ooog is a libertarian myth, like inflation.

        2. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

          Most people who buy this are going to be progressives like Michael Moore who want to make films from the left. I didn’t read it all. I stopped when the author told me that he didn’t like Michael Moore’s method. I suppose it will teach you how to make a film, but I want to hear it from the left. We are exposed to more right wing propaganda right now than Germany in the 1930’s, but the author wants the left to be careful not to make propaganda.

          HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

          1. You laugh, but a lot of leftists truly believe that Hollywood has an agenda of promoting radical individualism that saps appreciation for collective effort.

            Andrew O’Heir and Thomas Frank wrote articles criticizing The Hunger games the films of the Harold Ramis, respectively, for being too libertarian/conservative.

            1. Wait…the Harold Ramis?

                1. Thomas Frank’s WHAT THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH FUCKING KANSAS! is still the most hysterically obtuse book I’ve ever seen.

                  My personal favorite part is that he bizarrely claims Kansas is worse off since moving rightward, even though living standards have increased rapidly by virtually any metric. Can’t have facts and evidence getting in the way of the narrative though.

          2. We are exposed to more right wing propaganda right now than Germany in the 1930’s

            Undoubtedly true, but not for the reasons the author thinks.

          3. That guy must get zero sex.

            1. Only because of right wing propaganda that brainwashes attractive wimminz to desire evil libertarian men.

      2. Why waste a good ad hominen in the middle of the text? Off the bat gives the best effect!

        Impressive reviews.

      3. Unfortunately, I think he’s right about the Tea Party. They’ll kill it in the midterms and peter out.

        How is FreedomWorks doing? I remember hearing a while back that they were in trouble, and then I didn’t hear anything even when I asked around here.

        1. How could FreedomWorks not be doing well? I mean, with Citizens United and the removal of the individual limit, they just have to be swimming in gold bullion.

          1. Plus, with all that filthy corporate lucre going into politics, the monocle market has bottomed. You can get some impressive monocles at outrageously low prices now. Like only 7 figures. My collection grows daily.

        2. How is FreedomWorks doing? I remember hearing a while back that they were in trouble, and then I didn’t hear anything even when I asked around here.

          The nice thing about political organizations is that they can run deficits for literally decades and True Believers will subsidize them.

          Look at Salon. How long have they been losing money? It hasn’t mattered because they get subsidized.

      4. libertarians appeal to the extreme right and the extreme left at the same time

        Liberty, freedom from government coercion == Extremism.

        The mask continues to slip.

        1. Of course! Liberty and freedom are unmutual and disharmonious!

    2. This is not wonderful this is horrifying. I cannot wait until either the economy implodes or Yellowstone explodes because I’m pretty sure these people are gonna die. I hope their corpses taste good in the event of Yellowstone exploding because food might be an issue.

      1. This is not wonderful this is horrifying.

        Oh come on. These people are so fucking stupid that even most progressives would avert their eyes in shame.

        1. “Oh come on. These people are so fucking stupid that even most progressives would avert their eyes in shame.”

          My goodness! You have a much higher opinion of Tony than do I.

      2. Cyto, I’m fairly certain we came out of the same womb because we share this fantasy. I want the armageddon to happen just to cull these morons from my planet.

        On a side note, just checking if we did come out of the same womb: what was the name of the third triplet that we ate in utero?

        1. HE’S THE ONE WE AGREED NOT TO TALK ABOUT.

          1. Tony was not a third triplet, he was the after-birth.

    3. …”Read the history of how the fascists came to power in Italy and Germany.Same game plan.”…

      Yeah, I noticed that Hitler definitely needed a small government to take power. Or something.

      1. Oh yes, Hitler was such a big, big fan of individual rights.

        1. He totally ran on a platform of individual rights and limited nearly non-existent govt. I mean, didn’t you read Mein Kompf? It reads like a libertarian wet dream!

          (editors, please note we need a sarcasm text feature)

        2. Whose rights? So called “gay rights” or the right of freedom of religion in the Constitution?

          This isn’t the end of the story but the beginning of the beginning. School principals, teachers, etc., will be fired in the future for things like giving money to prop 8.

    4. “Read the history of how the fascists came to power in Italy and Germany.Same game plan.”

      Evidently he didn’t take his own advice.

      1. Oh he will, just not in the way he implies. It’s HIS game plan.

    5. Read the history of how the fascists came to power in Italy and Germany.Same game plan.

      So true. First, you start by making sure that Jewish bankers and their property/personal rights are well-respected, and then you move onto ending the NSA’s power to spy on the citizenry — then bam! Nazi Germany … somehow.

  35. I don’t get these people at all.

    I always thought and believed the best way to get people to see your way is to convince them through the force of your argument and intellect.

    Not by badgering, belittling and bludgeoning them with tyrannical behavior.

    That’s why I think this will sling-shot back in their faces. It can’t be more logical and rational minds won’t prevail in the long-run.

    You can’t be firing or muzzling people for their views.

    It’s more unsustainable than you think.

    1. This. The poor guy after all was simply engaging in the democratic process which was legal, moral and right. Doesn’t MTV want everyone to Rock the Vote? I guess not when it’s not in line with their kultur. It’s just too paradoxical to use even private market forces to have a man fired for exercising his right to vote and speak out. And people like Tony rejoice with glee when this happens because the end result is what they truly love — authoritarianism.

    2. Rufus: I had a good food week, and I think you probably did too.

      But today I have the flu, so I threw in the towel and made Kraft Mac N Cheese (AKA Kraft Dinner) for the kids tonight.

      Please don’t judge,
      Sincerely,
      Fellow Quality Food Lover

      1. I laughed.

        Yeah, good week. Made a cornish hen for my wife the other night. Came out really well.

        I have guilty pleasures as well.

        But not Kraft dinner. I draw the line at that because I can’t handle the smell. My wife has to make it for my daughter.

        Get well.

        1. I think I’m turning the corner. Hopefully. Vacation starts tomorrow.

      2. I ate well this week too. But I’m not including the stoned purchase of 5 cartons of ben and jerry’s in that either.

        1. Wow. Somebody likes expensive ice cream.

    3. “I always thought and believed the best way to get people to see your way is to convince them through the force of your argument and intellect.”

      Yeah, but there’s a whole lot of people out there who don’t care if others see things their way. Or rather, they’d like it if everyone saw things their way, but they’ll settle for forcing everyone to do things their way.

  36. The push to fire people for being on a different side of a controversial debate is mean spirited and heavy handed, to say the least. I will say I wonder if many of the people here were just as outraged by similar situations, such as that of Jeffrey Nielsen or Mike Moroski, both fired for supporting gay marriage.

    1. That’s totally different. When you’re on the righ TEAM harassing and/or getting you fired is okay because our TEAM is on the side of the angels.

      /Progressive

    2. *rolls eyes*

      Bo, even you must be honest enough to admit that the firing of Nielsen is not a good comparison to this firing.

  37. A question to which I’ve never gotten a decent answer =

    Miles Davis was a wifebeater.

    Celine was pro-Nazi

    Roald Dahl was an anti-Semite

    Picasso was a shit in at least a few different dimensions

    – Is miles a bad musician?
    – Was celine a bad writer?
    – Should your kids not read Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?
    – …etc.

    or, more succinctly = who cares WHAT the fuck people think, if you’re not *paying* for what they think, but rather what they can do for you?

    I may not agree about X,Y,or Z with the (ex) guy who runs Mozilla, but why SHOULD I? I want a better fucking web browser.

    If the world only did business with people that fucking agreed with them about *everything*, then we’d all still be living in the trees/caves/holes in the ground or whatever. Its fucking stupid and besides the point. I don’t want a company to pander to populist political correctness (a la Apple) = I want them to do their bloody jobs and make better products.

    just a thought.

    1. I’m sure every tolerant gay rights supporter will refrain from using the javascripts Eich invented.

      After all, doesn’t he gain a monetary benefit from their use? A monetary benefit he could use to further oppress the gays!

      1. I still use Firebug, a lot, not sure who invented that add on, but it’s an invaluable tool for anyone who develops web sites.

    2. And Henry Ford was…

      Nevermind, I drive a Chevy.

      1. Nevermind, I drive a Chevy.

        I am truly sorry for your misfortune.

        1. But it’s a Z71! Surely that counts for something.

          Cranks from the seat too.

          1. I had a Chevy Silverado, and like every Chevy I have ever owned, it was super nice at first, until it started to fall apart like a massive piece of crap.

            1. This is my third Silverado. My older ones had their problems but my ’11 is holding up pretty good so far. I still can’t get used to that jerky 6-speed transmission though.

              1. I’ll never own another Chevy, ever.

                My last GM product ever, is my wife’s cherished Pontiac G6. It’s a very sharp looking car, after new tires, new head lamps, etc., and it’s nice to drive, even though I realize that underneath is a cheap piece of crap.

                Oh, and going back to trucks. My first truck was a FORD F-150 that my grand father gave to me on my 18th birth day. The truck had 18,000 miles on it and I sold it when it had 320,000 miles on it. True story and last I knew, it was still on the road.

              2. Mine was a 1995, V8 short bed. Only one owner, and only 22k miles when I bought it.

                First, the paint all started peeling off, then at 30k miles, the transmission went out. It got worse after that until I traded it to my dad for a 1994 Jeep.

                He still managed to make a profit off of that deal, the old shyster.

      2. I had a sweet ’64 Chevy Deuce when I was 18– but that was when I was an ignorant child.

        Last GM product I will ever own.

    3. Completely agree.

  38. Tony really earned his paycheck today. Hit and Run is going to bleed OFA dry at this rate.

  39. Well I’m trying

    Ghost of Bastiat, most recent comment.

    1. What’s the verdict? From the pic, that dude might be in the closet…

      1. I have no idea, but apparently donating to National Organization for Marriage is no different than supporting the Klan or Stormfront.

        And don’t you dare call them out for voting for anti-gay bigot Obama in 2008 because they were just voting strategically.

        1. Holy shit dude, more power to you. My favorite was the person who argued that Obama did more than anyone by waiting until 2012 to “evolve.” I was once a liberal but I never would have bought that crap.

  40. This is YA manifestation of the “right to not be offended”.

  41. I don’t need everyone to agree with me before I’ll associate with them, and I don’t see how punishing Mozilla for their CEO is about to pressure the government to stop discriminating against gay people. Boycotts may be a superior alternative to government action, but that’s not saying much.

    Again, I think there’s a danger in politicizing every activity–or inactivity. Guinness pulled out of the St. Patrick’s Day parade. If I buy a Guinness on St. Pat’s, that means I’m taking a stand on gay rights? If I don’t buy a Guinness on St. Pat’s, does that mean I’m against gay rights, too?

    Now, it’s my choice of browser. Surely, there should be some things that aren’t about gay marriage either way.

    In a free society, not everything we do or don’t do is politicized. Maybe an excellent definition of a totalitarian society is a society in which everything we do or don’t do is politicized. An excellent definition of a tolerant society certainly isn’t one in which people refuse to associate with those who disagree with them.

    Please tell me we’re not gonna start arguing about MFN status for China, again, are we?

    Oh, and any of you who think people should be shamed into using a different browser or who refuse to associate with a company that has a CEO that doesn’t agree with us on gay marriage? You should all be ashamed of yourselves if you also get all hyper when someone suggests we should be more considerate of women and their sensibilities as a marketing tactic.

    1. For those wondering what the difference between this and the Civil Rights boycotts, consider this:

      The Civil Rights movement by and large boycotted businesses with rules compelling their employees and patrons to adhere to a deplorable set of rules regarding race.

      They did not concern themselves with business owners who were racist, but which decided to orient themselves towards your pocketbook rather than their prejudices.

      The difference is instructive, and speaks to the difference between taking a stand on principle and wallowing in one’s sense of moral superiority (or more accurately, indulging one’s own petulant need for control).

    2. We no longer wonder about who writes the machine code on a microprocessor.

      It is done by elves.

  42. For any of you rifle aficianados out there, this same thing happened a few years back to the guy who started Cooper rifles, Dan Cooper. He apparently donated money to Obama’s campaign and the gun crowd went apeshit. Now after eight years of Bush, I can’t really blame a guy for putting his money somewhere other than the Republican party. But this guy who founded the company and which was named after him, was run out of office and the company was sold.

    And in my view, Coopers are the finest, most accurate hunting rifles out of the box for the money. I own two of them. And even though I think Obama is even worse than bush, I would have still done business with his company because his products are fantastic.

    1. Exactly. So what if someone has crappy politics? Doesn’t mean they should be starved to death or hounded out of society. Their personal beliefs about politics are between them and their community organizer.

    2. This is a good point. I think that Dan Cooper most certainly has been proven wrong about Obama “supporting gun rights”. He was naive and bought into Obama’s fake persona. Should he have lost his job? No.

      But the CEO’s private contribution to prop 8 was leaked by the Obama administration’s IRS. Mozilla had the gall to say they support free speech. They caved to the gay fascists. This isn’t the end of the story but the beginning of the beginning.

  43. There is so much crappy information in this thread.

    1. Extension-free Firefox hasn’t been appreciably slower than extension-free Chrome on the desktop for quite some time now. The more relevant metric for most people is memory usage. On that front, the general, unscientific observation of myself and others is that Firefox uses more memory than Chrome on startup, but as you open more and more tabs, the situation reverses, Chrome starts to consume more memory than Firefox.

    So it’s a trade-off; Chrome is slightly better for more memory-constrained (i.e., outdated) computers. On a modern machine, Chrome and Firefox perform very similarly.

    2. You can use “Chrome” without sending data to Google, in that there are other browsers based on Google’s open source Chromium project. On Linux you can run Chromium directly; on Windows you can run Comodo Dragon, and on Windows, Mac, and Linux you can run Opera, which was recently redone to use the same engine (Blink) as Chromium.

    3. Chromium’s engine, Blink, is based off of Safari’s engine, WebKit (which was in turn adapted many years ago from an obscure engine called KHTML). Except for some cutting-edge HTML5 features, they are fairly similar. And Safari’s Chakra Javascript engine is on par with Chromium’s V8 engine performance-wise, IIRC.

    1. 4. Extensions vary widely in quality and in general, browser installs loaded down with extensions do not make a good basis for comparison. And notably, Firefox’s extension system is substantially more flexible than Chromium’s, which is of course in many ways a good thing, but also makes it more vulnerable to performance degradation.

      5. The Flash situation is… complicated. Firefox communicates with it via NPAPI whereas Chromium uses PPAPI, which is more resilient against Flash’s general shittiness, IIUC. The argument could be made that Mozilla should just go ahead and implement PPAPI; their official position is that they’re “not interested” in doing so, although I’m not sure why. It is probably in part because Mozilla has a more aspirational stance of wanting to rid the web of Flash altogether, whereas Google has taken the more pragmatic approach of collaborating some with Adobe.

      1. You’re beating around the bush. What works for youporn?

        1. I prefer xvideos, and only browse it on my Nexus 7. However, I suspect that on Windows the experience would be similar between the two. On Linux, I suspect that Chrome would be more performant, since Adobe no longer updates the NPAPI version on Linux except for security updates.

          1. Can you dumb it down a shade? Macbook pro retina here.

    2. (not a regular user of FF)

      FF has done a lot to speed up JavaScript in the last few years, and IIRC, there are some more really big improvements landing soon, too.

      Of course, I don’t use JavaScript anymore, because the creator of it donated to Prop 8. /sarc

      1. IIRC, there are some more really big improvements landing soon, too.

        Yes, the unstable branch has just enabled a new GC by default, which supposedly helps a lot.

        As an unscientific example to illustrate my point: I created clean profiles for Firefox and Chrome on my laptop. With nothing open in either, they uses approx. 80 and 60 MB, respectively.

        Then I opened Phoronix, Ars Technica, YouTube, and of course HampR in each. Firefox used about 150 MB less than Chrome.

        I didn’t bother testing single-tab browsing, but my experience suggests that Chrome would edge out Firefox slightly in that use case.

        The only subjective difference was that the throbber on the tab for HampR experienced a brief FPS drop in Firefox, probably due to all the fucking Flash banners.

        1. I run adblock (on both).

          Reasonable makes me a Chrome user.

        2. I don’t care about any of these numbers. FF crashes with Flash and stops working randomly in other situations so Chrome wins.

    3. Correction: Chakra is IE’s engine; Safari’s is Nitro.

  44. I thought we were supposed to be watching Stossel tonight?

    Seems like us libertarians, we are like herding cats.

    1. True Libertarians boycott Stossel — because, why not?

    2. we are like herding cats

      in which case, you’d expect women to make up a larger percentage of our demographic. But the idea that women are like herding cats is so wrong. Women are so generally conformist its not even funny.

      1. Are you trying to open up the womens as victims argument once again, AND throw innocent kitties into the fray, only to have them be torn to bits by the heartless libertarian maniacs here?

  45. OT: Have the lynchings of criminals in Argentina by angered public mobs been brought up around here?

    http://www.namnewsnetwork.org/…..d=MjY0MzU4

    1. First I have heard of it.

      Not sure what the problem is down there, I’ve always heard that socialism works.

    2. I’m not crazy about Argentina’s government, but I hope you’re not implying that public lynchings sans due process where the clearing bar for execution is down to how the mob is feeling is the solution.

      1. Of course not.

        The solution is the goddamn Batman.

        1. or his cheaper Mexican non-union equivalent!

    3. They should be lynching the really big criminals-their government.

    1. Why are your orphan workers so well dressed, and can afford tobacco? AND get breaks?

      You are setting a bad example for all decent monocle wearing libertarians everywhere.

      Shame on you.

      1. Fear not my fair colleague. Should these rabble rousers sow the seeds of discontent and begin murmurings of organizing, I have a Pinkerton contact who will be able to squash it at once. I’ll give you his contact info at the next cabal gathering.

        I also made some absolutely peachy shirts for the affair.

      2. Its the old ‘crazy drug dealer’ plan – he makes the orphans smoke on their break, charges them for the cigarettes (from the company store), and gets them addicted.

        1. Well… fuck.. he could be a genius!

          But I am still too disturbed by their uppity apparel. They could go getting the wrong ideas.

          1. Not if you

            A – Require them to wear it

            B – charge them for it – they can only wear authorized uniform items and those are only sold at the canteen

            C – heavily penalize them for wearing dirty, stained, or worn clothing.

            Then its nothing more than an expensive burden.

    2. You provide your orphans with a tobacco ration? Cease this activity at once! If whispers of this spread to the other manors, I’ll have to crush an insurrection again.

      1. must have been smuggled in

      2. We can just hope that he isn’t also putting windows or ventilation into his factories, or drinking fountains, or allowing 10 minute lunch breaks once in the 16 hour day, or even bath room breaks!, like many so called libertarians are allowing. Enough of this!

        1. That gravel isn’t sorting itself.

        2. If you put windows in then you have the option to cover them up.

          Leave them covered and have a policy to only allow light in when the orphans are ‘good’.

          Set the requirements for good really high so that it is difficult to reach.

          Berate them constantly for not meeting those standards.

          Always be ready to find some flaw (even if you have to make it up) in the rare cases when they get their act together enough to reach ‘good’.

          Damn, I wouldn’t have thought a military career provided such good training for managing orphans.

    3. See, people knew how to dress back then.

  46. Only thing I can say about Argentina, is that they’ve leaned so far left, that even their so called socialist neighbors, like Brazil, don’t want anything to do with them.

    Economy killing retards.

    1. Uruguay’s leader is a left-of-center guy named Mujica who has never liked either of the Fernandez’s. Several months ago he had a hilarious open-mic moment where he left his lapel mike and said “The old lady is worst than the one-eyed”, the former being the current president and the latter being her late husbando.

  47. I want a bucket of wings.
    Why can’t we have mobile food trucks that deliver?

    1. I will make them.

      I like to grill them, fairly crispy, but not overly so.

      I make my sauce with butter and Louisiana Hot Sauce, and 2 other ingredients that I shall not speak of yet…

      Best fucking wings you will ever eat.

      1. one ingredient has to be Orphan soul.

        1. Damnit! Ok, and I admit, the other is Orphan tears

          Seriously, depending on the size of batch of wings.

          If I am making as usual, 12 wings, I use about one cup of hot sauce, quarter stick of butter, one table spoon of mustard, and one teaspoon of vinegar.

          Good, addicting, stuff.

          1. Below post retracted.

            12 wings meaning 24 sections?

      2. How dare you! Partial recipes are unacceptable.

        Let me guess: garlic, and butter.

        1. Well, I already answered, so you see, Lousiana, butter, vinegar, mustard.

          It just fucking works.

  48. Celebs are *SHOCKER* editing photos before posting.

    1. Totally shocking. I NEVER use photoshop to edit my photos before posting online. NEVER, I SWEAR IT!

  49. I just got back from Supercuts. God damn they do good work.

    1. …. what did they cut?

      1. Oh God, not another circumcision thread.

        1. what if they only cut up his DeepDish pizza into smaller bites?

    2. once again,
      high and tight,
      crew cut,
      or buzz cut?

      1. Similar to this:
        http://www.imdb.com/media/rm24….._all_sf_16

        1. So, it’s just the 4 of us tonight.

          Permission to get weird, sirs?

          1. You can.

          2. We need permission to get weird? Is this NOT libertopia?

          3. Reason after dark.

  50. I sense a squrlz revolt

  51. WHY IS half my facebook gluten free?

    The prevalence of CD in the United States was 0.71% (1 in 141), similar to that found in several European countries. However, most cases were undiagnosed. CD was rare among minority groups but affected 1% of non-Hispanic whites. Most persons who were following a GFD did not have a diagnosis of CD.

    1. Your first mistake is Facebook. Everything else must be evaluated after that fact.

      1. How am I going to know if my classmates got fat?

        1. You just don’t fucking care. That if the first step on your journey to recovery, weed hopper.

          1. But I love schadenfreude. I’m trying to cut down, but I can’t just go cold turkey.

    2. I wonder if posting this article to my facebook would get rid of the gluten free posters

      1. Only it won’t get rid of the real problem, Facebook.

        1. I don’t share anything on facebook. I just keep in touch with cousins mainly.

          1. and my best friend who lives in Germany.

            1. And pictures of cats with toys collectible action figures.

    3. Because the internet.

    1. Not bad.

      But time for oneupsmanship here.

      I propose:

      Grass Roots

      1. You know who else put a lead singer on Bass?

      2. I one up with JB performing one of the most successful pop songs in history live in Paris in 1971.

        James Brown – Sunny

        1. Good Gawd, look at this darkie, out of control, obviously possessed by the demon weed!

          And they wonder why the call it pot!?

      3. Damnit, we are not done yet, lest we be killed of boredom!

        Best pop song, ever, going into modern times:

        Uprising

    2. If that’s pop, how do you dance to it? For that matter, how old are you?

      1. I thought that pop means popular music?

        How old am I? Too old for you to know about, sonny, too old for you to know!

        1. Dad? Is that you?

  52. Opie & Anthony Slam Obamacare two years and two bits too late.

    Enjoy the shitstorm I guess.

    1. Dude, you like Pantsed the link.

      1. Wow, yeah I did.

        http://youtu.be/MRjbFJiTzak

        I MAY HAVE HAD A FEW ADULT BEVERAGES EARLIER.

        1. Well, ok, I just hope you have reported your substance abuse to the proper health care professionals.

          1. STEP AWAY FROM THE VEHICLE COMPUTER!

            1. More like “step away from the phone and ignore available bad decisions and fuck around online instead” kinda thing.

              1. That’s no fun. Bad decisions aren’t all bad if you have an exit strategy.

                1. See what you did PM?

                  “I am going to drop off my car and have this girl pick me up at my house so I can go back out and drink more go home and get a good nights rest tonight. Save it for the weekend.”

                  1. Thursdays are the best day of the weekend.

        2. Ditto that my friend.

  53. more proof of the imminent Collapse of Civilization.

  54. Kind of off topic, but it made me laugh out loud. Yesterday morning, on the Free Beer and Hot Wings radio show, they were talking about the new trend among Millenials to have a “Primary Relationship” and one or more “Secondary Relationships”, both of which involve sex. They talked about how it’s very similar to the 1970’s “Open Relationships”, but without the unbathedness and drugs.

    One commented on how a hundred and fifty years from now, traditional marriage will be outlawed.

    “Pffft. Marriage? That’s for the gays!”

    Heh heh.

    Anyway, Totally Honest Trailer: Frozen.

  55. Man, you guys really don’t know how to keep a party going, huh?

    1. look here young person some of us have obligations! and jobs! and overpriced houses!

      1. Your bad life decisions aren’t my fault, grandpa!

        1. see we CAN go harder than you, we just choose not to.

          1. I COULD TOTALLY HAVE A RAGER, but then I would have to rent a rug doctor to clean the carpet. Thanks, but no thanks.

            1. That reminds me that I really need to do that before May.

              1. Remember: It cleans on the backstroke. Spray during the forward push, lift, and drag back slowly. It took me a year to get it right.

                1. Luckily I’ll have someone around who’s an expert! Because, yeah, otherwise I’ll make an even bigger mess.

                  1. I can’t can’t can’t stand paying somebody to do something that appears simple to me. So yeah, if you have an expert, pay attention…

            2. right?! also who wants to share their good booze with a bunch of freeloaders?

              1. Not this guy. Cheap booze for parties, unless it’s close friends.

      2. How bad is your overpriced house? After a few minutes of bill pay on Quicken, I can’t help but house shop on Redfin.

        1. it’s not as bad as my overpriced daycare. for what I pay for that place my whole family should be allowed to live there.

          1. it’s a Montessori, isn’t it

            1. it should be but it’s not.

          2. I googled the owner of my kid’s daycare. The first hit was from the Wells Fargo Wealth Management webpage. They explained how they were abled to gain maximum leverage from her yacht and 7 properties.

            And yet the monthly keeps going up.

            1. The community center I work at charges about 25 bucks per kid per day I think. Also happens to be an excellent program.

              1. Mine is about $1200 a month, so whatever that comes out to daily.

    2. Do you? Bring it!!!

      I have what I hope is the 24 hour flu, and then I’m off to a week vacation in the desert. You wouldn’t get it though, since you live in the desert.

      1. Because then I’d have to divide my attention & I’m lazy.

        1. I think you need to get your priorities straight. Shouldn’t you have a spring break coming up soon?

          1. Again, I am not in elementary school. My spring break was two weeks ago.

            My priorities are quite straight, thank you. My attentions are focused on a more worthy person.

            1. I’m not sure what is going on here. Clarify plz?

                1. Who would that person be, per se?

                    1. ha! that joke literally never gets old.

                    2. Oh, Snap!

                      Seriously, though, did I cross the line or something? I’m sitting home sick, and you seem to take pleasure in beating up on me.

                    3. You’re fine. I’m just on fire with picking on people tonight!

                    4. Damn!!! She just called me fine!!! Thanks, Supercuts.

      2. NOROVIRUS IS HIGHLY INFECTIOUS AND YOU WILL BE CONTAGIOUS FOR 7-10 DAYS

        1. You’ve been singing that song for years. This is just a quick flu with a lot of mucus. My kid brought it home from school last week, and me and the 2 year old got it last night. Miserable, but short.
          I have 480 mg of time release Pseudo ephedrine surging through my body right now, so I have been force to counteract it with delicious beer.

          I should be a doctor.

          1. I was struck by a bout of flu in late december. Lasted about 36 hours and at its worst still wasnt bad enough to keep me from working.

            1. THEN IT WAS NOT THE FLU

            2. “bout of flu” = some sort of STD, right?

              Seriously though, after my kid started school, he brought soooo many germs home. I’m gonna lose it if measles makes its way here.

          2. a quick flu

            Are you trying to piss me off? There is no such thing as a 24-hour flu THERE IS ONLY ONE FLU AND INFLUENZA IS HIS PATHOGEN.

            What you have does not sound like Norovirus however.

            1. I had noro several weeks ago.

              “A quick Flu”
              Could have something to do with the fact that I got a flu shot in NOV, and my kid didn’t, and I had to take care of him when he got sick.

              1. As long as your child was sick for several days, I can accept this. The flu shot is only 60% effective in preventing infection typically, although it may attenuate pathology in the remaining 40%.

                1. Just curious, are you a physician, or a biologist of some sort?

          3. There is no such thing as a “quick flu”; if it’s the flu, it lasts a while. You probably had a cold virus or something else similar.

      1. Fun fact: I saw Arj Barker live in college, and it was one of the few times I have laughed so hard for so long that I had to spend the next day in bed.

    3. My time after my wife goes to bed is limited, I can only spend so much of it here.

      1. this man speaks truth. this is why suburban white people do coke.

        1. That said, I’m all in for drunken reason after dark and I just tapped my keg of black IPA to do some quality control for my neice’s baby shower this weekend. I think some more testing is needed.

          1. I have to brew a baby shower beer too. Haven’t made a beer in a year now. But this one should be easy, simple easy drinking blonde ale. Might eveb go BPA, but that may be too beery for my brother-in-law, who despite being a fairly good man, drinks swill (like coors and corona swill).

        2. I think Apatheist ?_?? would suddenly find more time in the day if he were doing coke.

          1. It will all be wasted on Coke Wank.

          2. I bill by the hour, no need to make that time last longer.

    1. I’m laughing my ass off, so…yes?

      1. Yeah I’m also laughing. The tone is what gets me. Then I laughed again at the bogus statistic.

        Seriously they’re going to say with a straight face that half the girls in Canada, not freaking Moldova or the Congo or some backwards Muslim country, but Canada, are abused? I would love to see their methodology there.

        1. Someone looked at them on the street. RAPE CULTURE.

          1. MY VAGINA SAYS I AM.

        2. It’s the combination of the bullshit statistic and the rape whistle iconography that is hilarious.

          The implication is that half of all Canadian women are violently raped (the only context in which the rape whistle would play). However that statistic is using the bullshit methodology whereby any woman who’s ever had sex with a guy and later regretted it, felt shame, and was disgusted with herself gets to completely absolve herself of human agency and claim it was somehow abusive and forced instead of her just being stupid.

          1. …”and later regretted it, felt shame, and was disgusted”…

            I’ve chewed-off and regrown my right arm at least three times; does that mean I’ve been raped at least three times?

            1. I don’t know, but High Five. And maybe cuddle with your left arm.

    2. So you’re saying a rape whistle is not a good present to give?

      Fuck. I really gotta rethink all those wedding gifts I’ve been giving. No wonder its never on the registry.

    3. Brb, buying a rape whistle for my BIL.

    4. Serious, I’m not sure what’s going on here, but I think I was just called unworthy, and that you were likely referred to as worthy.

      1. Well we’re simultaneously IM’ing each other on Skype and posting here. So yeah, I’d say I’ve entered her good graces.

        1. IT IS JUST AS THE PROPHECY HAS FORETOLD

          1. You know the Sibyls are just high on volcanic fumes when they give those out, right?

          2. I will admit, Hit & Run-ing is much more fun when you have a partner in crime to conspire with and discuss the other posters.

            1. Jesse and I used to do that, but he is in Ireland banging European dudes right now.

            2. “I will admit, Hit & Run-ing is much more fun when you have a partner in crime to conspire with and discuss the other posters.”

              Dunno. I was thrilled when it became possible to work outside the office and avoid the gossip.

              1. If you’re feeling left out, we can Skype. I just don’t know how to use it. Maybe postcards would be easier.

                1. The NSA is reading both, either way, so it’s really up to you guys. Skype is fun!

  56. How long until after you get a new vehicle until you give up on the “no food or drink” rule?

    1. 0 days.

      1. What ride did you pick?

        1. I very much love my Mazda 3, and I love even more doing whatever the fuck I want in it. Including drinking and eating.

          1. Just googled. She’s a handsome car, and a surprisingly reasonable price.

            1. Got the sports package for 17k at the time. Good gas mileage, zip, and handling. No problems after 7 years and 70k miles. From what I’ve heard the newer models are the the same with even better mileage.

              1. I’m at 75k on my Toyota Sienna. I ran the last one into the ground. Got up to 190K before I sold it. The new one had slightly worse mileage than the old one. Not sure if it was a lemon, or bad engineering.

    2. I’ve only ever had used cars & nothing but water is ever allowed in them. This may explain why people don’t like me to drive.

      1. Yeah…. That must be the reason….

        1. Are you sure the Brittany Spears playlist isn’t a factor?

          1. I don’t think I’ve ever willingly listened to a song by her in my entire life.

            Most people don’t appreciate my taste in music, though, so that could have something to do with it. I’m certainly a better driver than all the guys I’ve ever been in a car with.

    3. I drive a Swagger Wagon, and I was totally OK with Jesse having a freeway mimosa on the way to brunch.

      1. Full disclosure: I had one too.

  57. OT: I didn’t love the first Captain America, but I am really psyched for the second one.

    I said I would wait until next weekend to see it but I kinda want to go by myself to see it tomorrow.

  58. There’s a whole lot of stupid going around here. Eich’s position on gay marriage is stupid. The fact that a social conservative like that lives and works in the Bay Area and doesn’t have the good sense to keep this under wraps is stupid. The fact that Mozilla and Firefox users care is stupid too. But, hey, it’s a free country: everybody can be stupid if they like.

    1. His private donation was made public when the by the Obama administration leaked the info to the “Human Rights Campaign” fascists.

  59. Social conservatives/fiscal conservatives have been saying all along to those who claim to be social liberal/fiscal conservatives that they are making deals with the devil. Nick Gillespie is “cool” when when speaks about supporting “gay rights” but the “gay rights” crowd are the most intolerant, hateful bunch around.

    “Small government? Forget it. We won’t stop until those who disagree with our progressive, ‘tolerant’ view is the law of the land and those opposed are hounded out of public life.”

    1. The board of Mozilla pressured the guy to resign. Their action seeking his resignation is based on exactly the same principle that allows the Boy Scouts to exclude gay troop leaders. Are you equally pissed about their meddling?

      You guys have gone so far off the fucking reservation it has surprised even me, and I already knew you were a bunch of small-minded rightwing hypocrites who can’t apply even free speech and association principles if it means you don’t get your way on a culture war issue.

      Jesus Christ, you people are stupid.

  60. It was leaked from IRS data? Either the guilty party voluntarily steps forward and confesses or the IRS should suffer collective punishment.

  61. I have a novel idea: how about we not fucking politicize every fucking thing? I know, crazy, right?

  62. So lesson learned. Libertarians can’t apply their own principles when it means some rightwing asshole loses out. You guys just aren’t going to do well in the free-wheeling environment of maximum liberty you advocate, are you?

  63. So we learn again that all liberals are secret Stalinists. It is also abundently clear that homosexuals are openly opposed to freedom.

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