US May Actually, Really Say Goodbye to Afghanistan, John Dingell's Wife to Announce Run for His Seat, US Expels Venezuelan Diplomats: P.M. Links

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  Credit: isafmedia / Foter / CC BY

  President Barack Obama has reportedly told Afghan President Hamid Karzai that the U.S. is planning to pull all troops out of the country by the year's end.

• Debbie Dingell, wife of Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.) will announce on Friday that she will pursue her husband's seat in office. He is retiring after 58 years.
• Asiana Airlines has been fined $500,000 by the feds for failing to assist family members of passengers in last year's crash in San Francisco where three died. It's the first time an airline has been fined for this type of violation.
• The United States expelled three Venezuelan diplomats in retaliation for the Venezuelan government doing the same to the U.S.
• Those close to Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer believe she is planning to veto the attention-grabbing bill that allows business to discriminate against customers on the basis of religious beliefs.
• In a pair of Supreme Court decisions today, the court ruled that police can search homes without warrants if a resident consents, even if another resident refuses, and in another case, that the courts can freeze a defendant's assets prior to a court case, even if it interferes with the defendant's ability to hire a lawyer to fight the charges.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

President Barack Obama has reportedly told Afghan President Hamid Karzai that the U.S. is planning to pull all troops out of the country by the year's end.

If I was the Pentagon, then I would be preparing for a surge.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hello.

/scratches balls.

[Ted S.]

Why are you scratching Fist's balls?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

My balls. FOE can scratch his own balls.

[pan fried wylie]

Isn't being prepared for a surge, like, their job?

[Injun as in from India]

Second.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Debbie Dingell, husband of Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.) will announce on Friday that she will pursue her husband's seat in office.

Why doesn't that district just dig up his old man's corpse and put it back in the seat?

[Episiarch]

Appearances, FoE. Wouldn't want people to think there's a dynasty or anything.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Dingell Dynasty. Who wouldn't want to watch that show?

[playa manhattan]

I'm sure I'll have a few of those after I digest my cheeseburger.

[Rich]

LOL

[Ted S.]

I think it's only in Chicago that the dead vote. 😉

[Tim]

This is why you have to chop off their heads.

[Auric Demonocles]

Apparently he took office when she was 2.

[Juice]

Really? Her name is Debbie Dingell?

[MJGreen]

You got a problem with that, ya dingus?

[playa manhattan]

I'm in the mood for a 10 by 10.

[jesse.in.mb]

May your gout be relatively painless?

[playa manhattan]

Meat in those quantities goes undigested. I'll be fine.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I had a major craving for an old style Italian submarine this weekend and dutifully got one. Took the lady, went to pick up the kid at winter camp 2 hours north of here and headed straight into town after that for the sub and soup.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Winter camp? Is that some kind of Canadian initiation ritual?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

In the middle of the night each child is expected to hunt and kill a caribou in order to drink its blood...in snow shoes.

[Brett L]

Well its a good thing the nights are like, six weeks long up there, ain't it?

[Tejicano]

I can see drinking champagne out of a slipper but I'm not sure what skills would be required to drink caribou blood from a snow shoe.

[playa manhattan]

Did the sub have 5 lbs of meat?

I'm craving pho, probably because I didn't have enough water after my beer last night.

[Ted S.]

It was an Italian sub. It had a screen door.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Not that much but enough to satisfy me.

All I needed was to bang my wife on the table. But, you know, public.

[JW]

...winter camp 2 hours north of here...

Training for the Night's Watch?

[Clich? Bandit]

Sooo, the Nights Watch is to keep out Canadians? Makes sense.

HOW THE FUCK DID BIEBER GET THROUGH!!!!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

The United States expelled three Venezuelan diplomats in retaliation for the Venezuelan government doing the same to the U.S.

It's just been revoked!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Those close to Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer believe she is planning to veto...

The Super Bowl has been saved!

[jesse.in.mb]

Those close to Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer believe she is planning to veto the attention-grabbing bill that allows business to discriminate against customers on the basis of religious beliefs.

Oh joy, the will-she-or-won't-she continues!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Asiana Airlines has been fined $500,000 by the feds for failing to assist family members of passengers in last year's crash in San Francisco where three died.

And who will see that windfall? Said families?

[playa manhattan]

How much are they going to fine the fire department for running over and killing the victim?

[Ted S.]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!111!!!

[Injun as in from India]

+1 Trillion Dollar Coin from the US Mint

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Jon Stewart eviscerates Judge Napolitano's interivew on The Independents Presidents' Day episode

Well at least a lot more people know the show exists now.

[jesse.in.mb]

What if they find our snarky comments and the show!?

[Ted S.]

I think they'll be frightened out of their minds by your porn links.

[Palin's Buttplug]

The Judge can look awful idiotic at times. Now the TDS crowd sees him at his worst.

[Ted S.]

Epi will have a lot of competition for the Two Minutes' Hate, too.

[Brett L]

Please. Those little shit flingers have nothing on Epi's siege engine of poo.

[Fist of Etiquette]

He just wants to get in on the Two Minutes of Hate.

[Ted S.]

For once I had the idea first! 😉

[Episiarch]

Now, I know this is going to be a leap, but you know that sadness and rage you feel about your money? Well, that's the way some of us feel about people.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Brett L]

No, they do feel that way about people. Just not ALL people. Right-thinking people. Progressive people. People who agree with them.

[Fr?ulein Nikki]

You clicked through before I did? What have you even become?

[Episiarch]

Could...could I be worse than you?

Nah. Impossible.

[JW]

Well, that's the way some of us feel about people.

They seemed to have learned all the right lessons from the slavers.

[Cytotoxic]

Now, I know this is going to be a leap, but you know that sadness and rage you feel about your money? Well, that's the way some of us feel about not being able to control people.

FTFY

[Dead or In Jail]

Ok, so I don't own a tv. But I saw the Judge on a tv at the gym the other day and he looked very, very skinny. He's alright, right?

(He had also dyed his hair; I almost didn't recognize him!)

[Rufus J. Firefly]

So basically Jon Stewart is a statist. I mean, the Judge is against a lot of bad shit Stewart should in theory and principally be supporting. Rather, he gets lazy and attacks. Lazy, lazy, lazy cheap humor.

[Fr?ulein Nikki]

Also, is it supposed to be a surprise to these people that (some) libertarians think the Civil War was a bad thing?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

The Civil War = bad thing

is not the same as

Lincoln started the Civil War

which is nonsense as far as it goes.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

I wonder what made slavery legal in the first place?

[mad libertarian guy]

This.

People who espouse the idea that government extends rights to people don't fucking get it. Liberty is the default in the human condition. The best government can do is undo its own fuck ups that denied people rights to begin with. Government (via the civil war or the CRA or whatever) didn't give blacks their rights, but RESTORED them from a state the IT IMPOSED ON THEM TO BEGIN WITH.

[JW]

The Civil War is a sacred object, which could only be objected to by gold-bug kooks and southern Nazis.

[Corning]

Can we lament the number of casualties?

Or will that make us Tea Party racists?

[Mickey Rat]

"So basically Jon Stewart is a statist."

I thought that was well known.

[a better weapon]

Didn't watch, but did the Judge list off 57 hypothetical questions in a row?

[Ted S.]

What if he did list off 57 hypothetical questions in a row? Would that make a difference? Would Jon Stewart be any less snarky?

[SPG_900]

is he asking 57 questions to Obama?

[Ted S.]

Would Obama listen to the questions?

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

nope nope nope nope

People who take Jon Stewart seriously are not people to be in contact with. It's probably contagious.

[Caleb Turberville]

I don't really want to watch either the Daily Show clip or the original Independents clip, but there's solid libertarian criticism to made about Lincoln and the Civil War.

Salon refers to this as Napolitano's "defense of the Confederacy." Just curious, does he actually "defend" the Confederacy or does he just criticize Lincoln?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I remember while watching at the time cringing a little bit at the Judge's segment. I don't think that's a hill worth dying on.

[Corning]

One thing that is interesting.

If your criticism is about someones views on the civil war does this not open up criticism of progressives who idolize of the early 20th century?

If one can bemoan someone for criticizing Lincoln can't someone else lambast someone for praising a Jim Crow racist and concentration camp founder like FDR?

[Francisco d Anconia]

No, his position was completely justified. The left is simply incapable of comprehending a principled argument and falls back on the "you're against public education so you're against education" ruse. You disagree with Lincoln so you're racist...

That bullshit is wearing fucking thin.

[Juice]

No, his position was completely justified.

He said that the civil war started over tariffs and not slavery. Ok, technically the war started because of secession, which was over slavery, but he's just way wrong about that.

[Calidissident]

Did he actually say the part about tariffs? That's sad, if true. It's historical nonsense, as anyone who takes a glance at any Declaration of the Causes of Secession or reads Stephens's Cornerstone Speech can see plain as day.

My problem with the "Lincoln deserves all the blame for the war!" crowd is that they act like the South had no say in the matter, or that they did everything they could to avoid war. They chose to secede to protect slavery, seized federal property, and chose to draft hundreds of thousands of men to form an army to resist when Lincoln finally made the decision to invade. They were far from innocent bystanders or oppressed victims getting picked on by a bully.

[Juice]

Did he actually say the part about tariffs?

Yes.

And Lincoln (and the US government in general) started preparing for war because all the federal forts started being taken by state militias. In only one case (Ft. Sumter) were shots fired and that's when Lincoln made a proclamation of war. Hey, did congress ever declare war?

[Francisco d Anconia]

I don't know enough about that period in history to tell you if the the Judge is correct or not. My point was simply that it WAS NOT a defense of the Confederacy, as CT asked.

Justified may not have been the proper word.

[mad libertarian guy]

That bullshit is wearing fucking thin.

Wearing thin?

That shit has been broken through long ago.

[Calidissident]

I wouldn't say he defends the Confederacy, but I think the points he makes are flawed. Slavery had been banned in most places, but it wasn't dying in the US. It continued to grow every year, and it was a very profitable industry, and I believe the value of a slave was at an all-time high. I disagree with Salon that it would never have ended without the Civil War, but I also think the people who seem to think it would have died off in a decade are naive (and this makes Napolitano's suggestion to just "allow it to die" a lot less appealing). He doesn't take into account the roadblocks and issues with compensatory emancipation. Lastly, he (and other people who make this argument) ignore the fact that the Confederacy seceded after his election - it's not like Lincoln made an ultimatum to abolish slavery or be invaded. The South freaked at his mere election - to me, the question isn't "why did the US have to go to war to abolish slavery?" (which isn't really pertinent, since the North originally didn't set out to end slavery) but "why were the Southern states so desperate to protect slavery that they seceded after the mere election of a president who wasn't running on abolishing slavery and who didn't have the power to do so?" He also doesn't criticize Lincoln for easier targets like the draft, jailing dissidents, etc.

[Calidissident]

*I should add on that last part that to my knowledge he didn't. The article didn't mention it and I haven't been able to watch the video.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Interesting, C.

Good questions.

[Raven Nation]

Also important to keep in mind the Dred Scott decision. Up until that point, states could ban slavery and, in the new states being created out of the LA Purchase AND the Mexican-American War, popular sovereignty was effectively banning slavery in most of them.

Dred Scott not only suggested that popular sovereignty in the territories was illegitimate but also suggested that it may be unconstitutional for states to ban slavery since it might conflict with property rights. Had someone moved to a free state with slaves, it may have precipitated a Supreme Court case. But, secession ended that chance.

Point being that while slavery was dying off in many areas, that reduction actually fueled attempts by slave owners to re-extend it.

[mad libertarian guy]

I wonder if those arguing the right for Colorado and Washington to legalize marijuana are taking that same rhetorical approach. Leftists are fine with federalism when it suits their agenda, all other instances represent A RETURN TO SLAVERY?.

[Calidissident]

That's a good point, but I'm not sure how relevant it is in this context. It's not like Napolitano was talking about nullifying Obamacare, he was directly speaking about the Civil War.

[mad libertarian guy]

It's still about states rights no matter the context.

Bring up states rights to a leftist and he will inevitably call you a racist. Explain to him that Colorado and Washington are expressing their right as a state by legalizing marijuana and that it is exactly the kind of federalism your average libertarian condones as states rights and all you'll get is derpity derp.

I agree that there is a principled argument to be made against Lincoln and the Civil War, but those kinds of arguments belong in a living rooms and basements for reasonable individuals to debate after they've gotten stoned, not on a cable television show that is surely going to be watched specifically for the purpose of using intellectual dishonesty to refute at every turn.

[Calidissident]

"It's still about states rights no matter the context."

Well first off, states don't have rights. Furthermore, I disagree that context doesn't matter. Leftist hypocrisy on this issue is rampant, but I just don't see how this specific example (Napolitano talking about the Civil War) is a valid example of that. I generally believe in federalism, and I think the Southern states had no right to secede to preserve slavery.

"I agree that there is a principled argument to be made against Lincoln and the Civil War, but those kinds of arguments belong in a living rooms and basements for reasonable individuals to debate after they've gotten stoned, not on a cable television show that is surely going to be watched specifically for the purpose of using intellectual dishonesty to refute at every turn."

Oh no, I totally agree with that. I do think there are valid criticisms of Lincoln, and I do think it's fair to criticize the Union's motivation for going to war, but IMO an invasion of the South to end slavery after they tried to secede to protect it would have been justified.

[Juice]

I too am fine with federalism when it skews in favor of individual liberty and against it when it does not. It's not a principle in an of itself.

[Anonymous Coward]

Aside from the snark, Stewart almost sounds like a participant in some of the arguments around here. That said, I don't appreciate their attempt conflating neo-confederates and apologists with libertarianism.

Rockwellians, please pay attention, because this is how your "nuanced" positions get distilled in the corporate media.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

As the Field Marshal in the war on the Rockwellians, I have to say it's not fair to hold them to an unfair standard. Stewart is the one who should be eviscerated for intellectual dishonesty.

[Anonymous Coward]

True, but expecting intellectual honesty from anyone employed by Viacom is like waiting for a free unicorn ride to Alpha Centauri.

Stewart is a progressive hatchet-man who occasionally veers the other direction, just to throw a little dust in people's eyes. Napolitano, on the other hand, has been at this TV game long enough to know that if you're going to oppose the Progressive canon, you had better make your arguments as bullet-resistant as humanly possible.

[Calidissident]

Agreed. It would have made far more sense to simply challenge a few myths about Lincoln, like the common misconception that ending slavery was always the primary goal of the war (this isn't a common view among those who know Civil War history, but I think a lot of people believe it), and criticize him for stuff like the draft, jailing dissidents, while reassuring viewers that the Confederacy was even more awful, and that he wasn't trying to justify them by comparison (if you're making this argument on national television, being overly-cautious about being misinterpreted is more than necessary).

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. Criticizing Lincoln on things like military drafts, allowing martial law in Union states, and suspending habeas corpus while the civilian courts were still in operation (a question which was answered by the Court's in the aftermath of the war), and the myth that the war was initiated to the free the slaves and not to preserve the Union (it is true that Lincoln grew more aligned with the abolitionist position as the war dragged on, but he never joined the Radicals in his party who wanted reparations for freed slaves and harsh punishments for slaveholers).

The problem is, the people who jump on the bandwagon of criticizing Lincoln (Rockwell, Woods, DiLorenzo) usually do so as a preface to "The South Was Right," and "slavery wasn't so bad."

[Calidissident]

DiLorenzo's obsession with Lincoln is a bit creepy.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Napolitano, on the other hand, has been at this TV game long enough to know that if you're going to oppose the Progressive canon

It also pisses off some Conservatives as well..

[Raven Nation]

Good point. I was stunned to hear people argue that Stewart's attack on Sebelius meant he was abandoning statist views. My interpretation of that was he was pissed off b/c the Obamacare website roll out was incompetent statism.

[Juice]

Nah, Napolitano deserved every bit of what he got in that clip.

[Calidissident]

Yeah, Stewart can be a disingenuous prick, and I'm not a fan of his by any means, but I've seen much worse clips of him than this (to be fair, I'm just basing this off the article, which very well may be biased, I haven't watched the video). But just going off of the quotes in the article (most of which are from Wilmore anyways), I don't see anything too outrageous, considering the context of a comedy show. Napolitano's argument has some pretty big holes in it, which I elaborated on above. Obviously, my philosophy overall lines up much more with Stewart and Wilmore, but I disagree with the Judge's take on the situation (though, as I said elsewhere, there are legitimate criticisms of Lincoln - he just chose really poor ones).

[Calidissident]

*That should say "lines up much more with him than with Stewart and Wilmore"

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I'm very confused as to why the Civil War is anything besides an academic subject at this point. Sorry, but once you had a large conflict in which state governments fought one another you were going to have a situation where the FedGov got bigger.

[Calidissident]

I think that would have happened either way. And the major growth of the federal government didn't really start happen for another 30-40 years.

[Juice]

Yeah, the Rockwell crowd, which includes Napolitano, just needs to drop it about Lincoln. Why bring it up in the first place?

[Cytotoxic]

I'm not watching. Lemme guess: it's not funny.

[Palin's Buttplug]

In a pair of Supreme Court decisions today, the court ruled

Police state conservatives! Fuck yeah!

[Paul.]

They found the searches to be like a tax.

[Mad Scientist]

Asiana Airlines has been fined $500,000 by the feds for failing to assist family members of passengers in last year's crash in San Francisco where three died.

Ho Lee Fuk

[SPG_900]

Only 500000? thats.... Wii Too Low

Sumtings Wong, Here...

[a better weapon]

+1 hilariously erroneous news graphic

[jesse.in.mb]

Facial Hair Transplants Growing Amid Hipster Beard Craze, Doctors Say

Whether they're filling in a few gaps or doing a complete beard construction, New York City doctors who specialize in the procedure said they're seeing a growing number of men paying as much as $7,000 to pump up their beards.

I'd like to officially come on board as supporting Warty raping humanity out of existence.

[playa manhattan]

I though hipsters were poor. Are they doing this on credit?

[SugarFree]

Hipsters are not poor. They live off their parents. Truly poor people don't live in Brooklyn and own infinity scarves.

[NoVAHockey]

I have no idea WTF an infinity scarf is

[Drake]

Sounds like they are really long.

[Episiarch]

That's a lot of words to explain a gorilla mask.

Mac: What's not to like? Cricket with a face full of pubes? Hilarious!

Dennis: Yeah, but where are we supposed to get that many pubes, man?

Mac: We shave!

Dennis: Well, that's gonna be a problem. I laser. It's like a turtle shell down there.

[playa manhattan]

I just watched that one yesterday.

"Now is it racist if we don't eat him?"

[Episiarch]

"Cannibalism? Racism, Dee? That's?that's not for us. You know, those are the decisions that are best left to the suits at Washington, OK? We're just here to eat some dude."

[Mad Scientist]

Looking scruffy isn't something you just wake up with in the morning!

[Ted S.]

Wouldn't it be more lucrative to figure out a way to fleece hipsters?

[Mad Scientist]

Sounds like some docs in New York are already on that.

[Brett L]

My brother is jealous. I got the beard gene and he didn't. Seriously, he and my dad get these sad little tufts. I'm totally emailing this to him.

[paranoid android]

I identify as a lumberjack, but I'm trapped in the body of a...some profession that is stereotypically depicted as having little body hair.

Yeah, this joke needs some work.

[Mad Scientist]

Do you sleep all night and work all day?

[SPG_900]

Im a lumberjack, and im OK,

Sipping my Latte and being a snob all day!!

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm sorry. I'm cis-lumberjack privileged.

The beard thing is getting a bit crazy. I've had a few ostensibly straight guys chat me up about my beard, ask to touch it, complain about how they can't grow one, realize the entire conversation comes across as flirting and wander away uncomfortably.

[Mad Scientist]

PICS!

[playa manhattan]

With the blonde hair and brown beard, Jesse looks like he has been stranded on a desert island for most of 2014.

[Mad Scientist]

Hmmm. It occurs to me that Jesse could earn some serious coin selling pin-up posters of himself to non-hirsute hipsters.

[jesse.in.mb]

Umm, ok. Ignore the dark circles. I was really jet-lagged.

[Episiarch]

I knew you were a Nazi!

[Fr?ulein Nikki]

And a cutie!

[jesse.in.mb]

And a cutie!

Awww. Thanks!

[Clich? Bandit]

wrong team nikki.

It is always about team.

[Mad Scientist]

Well, now you've done it. Epi and Nicole will be in their respective bunks.

[Ted S.]

From the way you write, I would have thought your beard was more like Ted Kaczynski's, not Will Riker's.

[Ted S.]

From the way you write about your beard, that is.

[jesse.in.mb]

Eh, that was at the beginning of my two week trip. I cleaned it up quite a bit so that I wouldn't have to worry about it. I had a full neck-beard, and looked pretty homeless by the time I got back to the states. I don't think I have any good examples of that though.

[Warty]

Much too short. You could barely save any flavor with that thing.

[Corning]

HIPSTER!!!

[mad libertarian guy]

That's not a fucking beard. I mean you have full coverage, but that's child's play.

[jesse.in.mb]

We can't have a beard-measuring contest if I'm the only one posting pictures.

[Warty]

Mine is much too short right now, too. 🙁

[Warty]

Oh please. If a guy pets the face of a guy he knows to be homosexual, he's not straight. Do I need to send you a copy of my PUA manual or what?

[Episiarch]

PUA? You don't pick anything up, you just rape. So...RUA?

[Warty]

Of course there's picking up. Like, think fireman's carry. Then rape.

[tarran]

No, it's Rape Artist or RA.

You're probably thinking of Family Guy's "Rape It Forward"

[jesse.in.mb]

Do I need to send you a copy of my PUA manual or what?

Having the confidence to wantonly rape would've been massively helpful with the elevator repairman sitch from this morning.

I'll take two copies.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly, jesse. It's clearly stated in The Man Code that discussions of grooming shall not including touching of another's man face, chest, or legs. It is also stated that men shall not complain about the inability to grow a beard. All men can grow a beard, they just choose not to.

It is known.

[mad libertarian guy]

It is known.

[Brett L]

Was this before or after the wanting to do a manual check of your bikini line?

[Warty]

You need a lumberplasty.

[MJGreen]

I was wondering how so many young folks have such impressive beards. It makes sense that some of them are juicing.

[Injun as in from India]

In a pair of Supreme Court decisions today, the court ruled that police can search homes without warrants if a resident consents, even if another resident refuses, and in another case, that the courts can freeze a defendant's assets prior to a court case, even if it interferes with the defendant's ability to hire a lawyer to fight the charges.

SCOTUS... The eternal friend of liberty.

[Brett L]

Stick a fork in her, America's done. We need a free state project in some small country offering good terms on buying citizenship.

[Cdr Lytton]

No shit. Police have the time to take the defendant off to jail but they can't stop off at a judge to pickup a warrant on the way back to his apartment. Alternative reading: Ok to remove objectors to their requests until they're left with someone who doesn't object.

[Cytotoxic]

We need a free state project in some small country offering good terms on buying citizenship.

ZEDE in Honduras!

[Lord Peter Wimsey]

I've always liked the Isle of Mann. You can own a gun. The tax rate tops out at around 17%. And they have British-style pubs. Seems like a cool place.

BUT - you cannot move there permanently if you need to take a job on the island. You need to have your own money. .

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Jesus Christ. Are there ANY judges that ever side with the people?

[Palin's Buttplug]

The three ladies on the Supreme Court just did.

I know they don't count to you.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"I know they don't count to you."

Yeah, you've outed me. I'm a misogynist, racist, who hates gays and eats babies....marinated in maple syrup.

[Matrix]

sounds terrific. Police come by while Dad's home.
Police: May we search your home?
Dad: Not without a warrant.
Police: Very well.

Next day they come by after the kids get home from school and Mom and Dad are at work.
Police (looking very intimidating): We want to search your house.
Son (scared): Uh... okay...

Police find one of the kids' stash of drugs in the house and the parents get arrested.

[Caleb Turberville]

So, to be clear:

A&E can choose whether or not to conduct business with Phil Robertson based on his religious views, but in the state of Arizona, you can't choose whether or not to conduct business with gay people based on your own religious views?

[jesse.in.mb]

No, in AZ you already could choose whether or not to conduct business with gay people based on your own religious views. The law doesn't do anything new it's just meant to shore up the status quo in case of judicial shenanigans.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I'm curious. Just how do Christians, etc. justify their choice not to do business with gays on religious grounds? Is there a "if a man lies with another man like a man lies with a woman, then thou shall not take of his coin, nor shall thou eat of the fruits of his harvest?" verse somewhere in the Bible? I really want to know what specific verses they cite.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Isn't it aimed mostly at the marriage industries and the beds and breakfasts? Aren't those the people most likely to get sued?

[Heroic Mulatto]

If you operate a B and B and turn away gay people, who are like 98.38% of the market, you deserve to get sued on grounds of stupidity.

[Fist of Etiquette]

You know as well as I do that people have a right to be morons.

[Anonymous Coward]

Baking wedding cakes for the teh gheys is the same thing as endorsing their gheyness. One day, you're baking their cakes for money, next thing you know, you're rolling their condoms on with your mouth while they glitter bomb you.

It's a slippery slope, man.

[Duke Trshmnstr of Stench]

Besides the wedding businesses, I don't think I've heard of christians denying service to gays. It wouldn't shock me if I had missed some instances, but I would think that most christians couldn't care less about the sexual behaviors of their clientele, because it would have nothing to do with the sale that they're making. Maybe I'm wrong?

[Heroic Mulatto]

That's similar to the point I was making. It isn't "Christians" who are turning away gay costumers, it is homophobes who are turning them away. There is nothing specific in Christianity, that I know of, that mandates a believer not do business with a gay person, or a non-Christian, or any other "sinner" out there. As someone who believes in freedom of association, I believe it is perfectly fine (albeit stupid) to say "I don't serve gays" but you don't get to add "because Jesus said so" at the end as a loophole in current civil rights laws unless you're willing to jump through the same hoops the government makes conscientious objectors jump through when they refuse to sign up for selective service, including interrogations by a government bureaucrat where they have to justify their religious beliefs concerning pacifism and filling out paperwork and sometimes even an essay explaining your beliefs.

[Duke Trshmnstr of Stench]

I see marriage industries and general "christian companies" differently. If your sexual orientation has nothing to do with your purchase, then the person is just being a homophobic asshole about it if they don't sell to you. That deserves shaming and the like.

If somebody runs a marriage venue or cakery or the like, I see it a bit differently. I completely understand christians who don't discriminate in who they serve, but I also understand some saying "your marriage goes against what my morals and religion say a marriage should be, and thus I'm not able to serve your event." Perhaps I'm naive, and these folks are just at the level of "ewww icky fags, I aint doin that crap!", but I think there's room for people to thoughtfully decide either way.

[jesse.in.mb]

Off the top of my head I'd suggest 1 Corinthians 8. The first half makes the Christian position on baking gay wedding cakes sound silly and the second half makes it sound like refusing is the right thing to do. I don't know if they would make the same argument though.

The short version is that baking the cake wouldn't harm their salvation because it in no way affects their relationship with God, but it might give weaker Christians a sense that gay marriage is ok and that would be a no-no.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Personally, I think that's thin gruel. Idolatry is a specific sin, and in this letter Paul is just repeating the classically Jewish view on the subject which can be found in the Oral Law of the Talmud. I would argue that switching out idolatry with sodomy is equivocation, especially since Christianity is clear that it doesn't believe sins are fungible.

[lap83]

I know I'm too late to this, but the verses he cites aren't about idolatry, per se. They're about getting along with other Christians when they have slightly different beliefs than you. It's sort of like how some people try not to drink around their recovering alcoholic friend to avoid causing them to fall off the wagon.

[Duke Trshmnstr of Stench]

I had one of my best friends decline to be a groomsman in my wedding because he is an official representative of a certain denomination, and appearing in a wedding where the bride had previously married and divorced could give the impression that he, and thus his church, condoned remarriage.

I understand both sides of the argument. When a christian legitimately believes that something is wrong or immoral, making a living profiting from that sin is top shelf hypocrisy. On the other hand, christians sure take their lumps when they decide to take a stand against perceived immorality.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

It's a question of consideration. Christians are free from any strictures of law (though it has to be said that while at least not eating meat offered to idols was part of Jewish tradition, refusing to do business with sinners was not and cannot be justified on law-based grounds). However, they should temper their enthusiasm by considering one another in all that they do, in Christ's example. The definitive statement is in Colossians: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat [food] or drink, or in the respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days."

[Stormy Dragon]

Is there a "if a man lies with another man like a man lies with a woman, then thou shall not take of his coin, nor shall thou eat of the fruits of his harvest?" verse somewhere in the Bible? I really want to know what specific verses they cite.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18

[Francisco d Anconia]

Looks like the Nazgul was on a tear today.

Surprised they just didn't declare the Constitution unconstitutional.

[Francisco d Anconia]

were

[Palin's Buttplug]

Now that Karen Willmus can get health insurance through Obamacare, she plans to quit teaching 9th grade English at the end of the school year.

The 51-year-old found policies on the Colorado state exchange for about $300 a month. That's less than what she's paying now for employer-sponsored coverage and less than half what she paid on the individual market in 2007.

Like Willmus, millions of people could quit their jobs or cut back on their hours in coming years because of Obamacare, according to a recent report from the Congressional Budget Office.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/.....00325.html

[BakedPenguin]

Mmmm.

[Episiarch]

I still can't believe something as awesome as that gif exists.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Why do they make that face as if they're swallowing castor oil? I'd think it's a nice refreshing feeling.

But that's me.

[Some call me Tim?]

Sweet, when is the legislation going to pass that has the government cover my rent so I can quit my job and start a business?

[Cdr Lytton]

Just wait for Hilaryhousing, her signature achievement.

[Cytotoxic]

millions of people could quit their jobs or cut back on their hours in coming years because of Obamacare

Yay devastated labor productivity! Yay for ignoring the many millions more who will lost their insurance!

[Auric Demonocles]

President Barack Obama has reportedly told Afghan President Hamid Karzai that the U.S. is planning to pull all troops out of the country by the year's end.

Obama has refused to say how many "trainers" will be in the country next year.

[Pro Libertate]

He promised to use protection next time, too.

[jesse.in.mb]

America* (fuck yeah!) weighs in on the plight of gays in Africa.

The church's vigorous support for traditional marriage, moreover, must be accompanied by advocacy for the human rights of gays and lesbians in equal measure. This is required by the church's own teaching. Indeed, a growing number of Catholic leaders have offered unqualified support for the decriminalization of homosexuality.

Only about 45 years behind the LP, but I'll take what I can get.

Meanwhile in Africa: "Archbishop Ignatius Kaigama of Jos, Nigeria, meanwhile, has praised President Goodluck Jonathan for his 'courageous and wise decision' to sign the new law in that country."

*The National Catholic Review

[Pro Libertate]

You can't possibly be right, because (1) libertarians are Nazis and want to round up gays in camps, and (2) Obama and Obama alone freed gays from slavery or something.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Golfer Steve Elkington under fire for homophobic tweet about Michael Sam

Pro golfer Steve Elkington is under fire for confusing satire with homophobia in an ill-advised tweet about Michael Sam.
The ten-time PGA Tour winner caused outrage with a seemingly homophobic tweet aimed at Sam, the University of Missouri All-American who is participating at the NFL Combine two weeks after coming out as gay.

"ESPN reporting Michael Sam is leading the handbag throw at NFL combine.... No one else expected to throw today," Elkington wrote.

That's mildly funny, but my favorite comeback was someone asking why a golfer would criticize another man for carrying his own bag.

As well the simple incongruity of a pudgy, middle age golfer accusing a 300 pound linebacker of being effeminate.

[Episiarch]

Because all homos are effeminate, Serious. Don't you know anything? Even if they can rip your fucking head off, they're still queens.

[Pro Libertate]

I learned that this was wrong from Eddie Murphy many years ago.

[jesse.in.mb]

Even if they can rip your fucking head off, they're still queens.

You've clearly never been in the room when a drag queen fight has broken out. The effeminate ones are the ones you should be terrified of.

[Episiarch]

Yeah, but that's because they'll cut a bitch.

Am I wrong in assuming that a drag queen fight is probably one of the greatest things you could see, potentially only second to a prison rodeo?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Shocking bum fights. And shocking just doesn't refer to the spectacle itself.

[jesse.in.mb]

Am I wrong in assuming that a drag queen fight is probably one of the greatest things you could see

Running away before you're pulled into a vortex of chaos is the only appropriate response. I did enjoy the shit out of a fight that broke out between an old lesbian in loafers and a Hawaiian shirt and a perky lipstick lesbian of color at a bar onetime. My friend an I were live-texting it to my roommate who had opted not to come out and has regretted that decision ever since.

[Episiarch]

I need to hang with you more, jesse. That's my kind of fun.

[Brett L]

Listen, when the rings and the wigs come off, its time to get the fuck out of there.

[playa manhattan]

Golf is not a sport. Period.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I hate golf.

Especially those who take it way too seriously.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

I like golf, but I do hate most of the other people who play because they do take it way too seriously.

And fuck pro golf. Watching it is in no way interesting.

[Pro Libertate]

I used to play fairly often, but I got tired of spending that much time on the course, baking in the Florida sun for hours, and stressing myself out because I blew a putt or something.

[Mad Scientist]

You're stressed because you're not playing the game properly. An enjoyable round of golf requires drinking a minimum of 1 beer per hole played.

[Pro Libertate]

I've done that. I played a round of Beer Golf in college (the one where one beer subtracts a stroke) and came out of the front nine below par. Then the back nine happened.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I once beat one of those types in fucking mini-putt. He was pissed to lose to an unserious hack.

I found it hilarious. It's not my fault he can't putt despite all the waster hours he put in.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Elk is an Aussie. They don't do PC.

(and yes, that was mildly funny like the javelin throw for the "limp wristed" in Revenge of the Nerds by the one gay nerd)

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

In the coming years that scene will have to be deleted from any airing or copy of that movie.

[Palin's Buttplug]

The one gay nerd was also the only black nerd. No way the PC police allows that today.

PAN DOWN! I WANT BUSH!

(not that Bush)

[Brett L]

The dude has pretty much shat the bed at the combine, as I understand it. Send him to Miami, they're used to shitty defenders.

[GILMORE]

Amuse yourself with commenters reactions to a pro-Ukraine editorial in CNN =

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02.....ef=edition

The theme in the comments is basically a tete-a-tete between progtards who have suddenly become both

a) fiscally self-conscious ('we don't have the money for this if we can't pay for free healthcare!') as well as
b) concerned about foreign interventions (*strangely, after defending US intervention in Libya, agitating for it in Syria, and still gnashing their teeth over Darfur..)

...and pro-Russian trolls who condemn the meddling of the Democratic West bringing their 'so-called' democracy and liberal economics to their front yard.

The amusing bits are where they agree about the evils of capitalism and the lies of the media

...then there are the weird points of contention where the Russians laught about the NSA, going, "Ha ha! See you have KGB scum too!" and the progs suddenly being like, "wait a minute, Obama is awesome, but.."

In short = Progs seem to like unilateral *humanitarian* interventions if its an excuse to poke their snot into some other nation's bidness... but when its a nation "Yearning for Capitalism and Liberty"? = they go straight up Isolationist.

In any case, there is some amusement to be had there.

[Cytotoxic]

Progs love intervention as long as it has nothing to do with America's interests or Repblicans, which is why they opposed Iraq.

[PD Scott]

An article about the new MRE pizza. No word if it passes Episiarch's standards, but perhaps he will be encouraged by "A native of Rhode Island, which has a sizable Italian population, [Natick senior food technnologist Michelle] Richardson says she set the bar high: "When I first started developing this, me and my daughter would go and taste pizza because I wanted to use that as my benchmark.""

[playa manhattan]

Serious question: If you leave pizza unrefrigerated, how long until you consider it to have gone bad? My wife and don't see eye to eye on this at all...

[Episiarch]

You can get a few days out of it, but if it is any good, you'll have finished it way before then anyway.

[playa manhattan]

I usually get 2 so I have lunch for the week.

[Pro Libertate]

What I like about all of the analyses thus far is the complete irrelevance to what is on the pizza. Meat? Irrelevant. Cheese? Irrelevant. Bacteria? Nutritious.

[playa manhattan]

I require at least 2 meat toppings, one of them garlic infused, and an 80-10-10 blend of mozzarella-provolone-mild cheddar. Tomato sauce and white sauce are both acceptable.

[Episiarch]

It's good of you to admit to being a tasteless buffoon. It's particularly appropriate that you came out to ProL, since he can understand you.

[Pro Libertate]

Mostly off-topic, but my wife and I recently ate at one of those Mongolian grill places, where you get a bowl of meat and veggies, make your own sauce, and give it to a guy to throw on a giant circular grill.

Anyway, the sauce I made and consumed easily had eight tablespoons of chopped garlic.

[playa manhattan]

I have a place around here like that. Part of my secret is pouring a little bit Sprite into the sauce before they cook it.

They get pissed because they have to scrape the burnt sugar off of the grill, but it is so damn good...

[Pro Libertate]

I actually like the place well enough. It's a little pricey for what you get (unless you eat mass quantities, then it's less so), but it's pretty good quality.

[playa manhattan]

If it's not good, there's nobody to blame but yourself. There's some trial and error with the sauces...

[jesse.in.mb]

I have a place around here like that.

Big Wok?

[Pro Libertate]

We have two--BD's Mongolian Grill and Genghis Khan Grill. We've only been to the former, but I hear they're pretty similar. Both are small chains with some national presence.

[playa manhattan]

Yep

[playa manhattan]

I do enjoy a good slice of thin, bubbled New York crust, but there isn't a good place around here.

[Episiarch]

That's a cop out. Even Seattle has good pizza. You just need to know where to find it.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

So I hear. Is it similar to what's found in California or Vancouver? More in the East style? Vermont has a couple of good places in my neck of the woods.

[Episiarch]

I don't know what's found in California or Vancouver as I've never had pizza there. That place is New York style thin crust, and the beer selection is amazing.

[playa manhattan]

I live in the burbs. I'm sure that LA has some decent places, but they are too far for me to be eating at once a week.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, I imagine it depends on what stage of life you're in. In college, I had no problem eating pizza that had sat out all night.

[playa manhattan]

All night at a minimum. My wife thinks it has to be thrown out after 4 hours.

[Pro Libertate]

That's absurd. Heck, I've sold such pizza on the secondary market.

[Episiarch]

That's absurd. Pizza can easily go 24 hours.

[Pro Libertate]

I agree, I've just never tested that. In my experience, no more than three slices were ever left over. Not in the days when me and my roommates couldn't be bothered not to pass out before putting the pizza in the chillier place, whatever that's called, anyway.

I do know when to not drink milk, having accidentally consumed bad (and I mean advanced bad) milk out of a carton one hungover morning. I vomited the instant it hit my throat.

[Auric Demonocles]

With you, I suspect the word that you are searching for is "ice box".

[Episiarch]

You mean you vomited when you had deep dish "pizza", right? Probably while you were looking in a mirror?

[Pro Libertate]

Milk. Like two weeks' old milk. It was a horrific experience, much akin to enduring your presence for all of these years.

[Auric Demonocles]

Fortunately we've spent the past few years building up an immunity to Episarch presence.

[Pro Libertate]

You know that saying about things that don't kill you making you stronger? That's actually complete nonsense.

[Episiarch]

You made one of the classic blunders, ProL. Never get involved in a pizza war in Asia.

[Pro Libertate]

Never get involved in pizza in Asia. I've seen it--it's not pretty.

[Mad Scientist]

My wife refuses to argue about this. She just takes my pizza gives it to the dogs. Apparently, it's a potent bio-hazard that could kill me by morning, but the dogs are somehow immune.

[Pro Libertate]

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. You should eat pizza that has been left out progressively longer each day until you can fend off any contagion.

[Mad Scientist]

I'll get on that as soon as I'm done building up an immunity to iocane powder.

[playa manhattan]

That's what really gets me. I'll forget to put it in the fridge, and then I find it in the trash the next morning. If it's Round Table, I'll eat it right out of the trash.

[Mad Scientist]

Next time she throws your pizza away, just throw away a pair of her shoes. That'll end this problem, one way or another.

[Pro Libertate]

Close. Take a pair of her shoes, roast them, chop them up, and make a pizza out of them.

[mad libertarian guy]

If my wife tried that shit we would have serious problems in the casa de mad libertarian guy. I'll definitely eat pizza that's been out for 24 hours. I actually prefer leftover pizza, and it can't have been refrigerated because that shit ruins it.

[Brett L]

When the mold becomes visible. Although it will dry out and suck in about 18 hours.

[Heroic Mulatto]

When it smells?

[Pro Libertate]

Not to criticize, but what sort of pizza are you eating that doesn't smell in the first place?

[Warty]

I don't think any mold species that grow on bread will make you sick, so technically it's edible long after the mold is visible. I'd guess it takes 4-5 days for the bacteria in the cheese and meat to get to the level that it would make you sick.

It sounds like you've had your wife out too long and she's gone bad. Better throw her out and order in a new one.

[Pro Libertate]

Jesus, I just realized why no one ever gets sick eating old pizza. The mold that grows on the crust is a natural antibiotic.

Nobel Prize, bitches! Someone write this up for me with the random study generator.

[Fr?ulein Nikki]

Ergot could sort of get you "sick," right?

[Warty]

Huh, apparently no quotes are necessary. That sounds much less fun than hallucinations.

[Fr?ulein Nikki]

Yeah, gangrene is uncool.

[Anonymous Coward]

Between two and three days, depending on your pizza and choice of toppings.

Pizzas with cured meat toppings tend to decay at a slower rate that those with fruit or vegetable toppings.

*source: Observation of many Domino's pizzas ordered during undergrad

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yeah well, me and my buddies are pizza aficionados. My mother and brother-in-law's mother make incredible pizza. As a purist and traditionalist, I can't stand how we've mangled Italian cuisine. I want to punch the TV.

Parmesan. What the fuck is parmesan? It ain't Italian that's for sure. And NO you can't put cream in alla carbonara!

/hurls desk.

[Ted S.]

Men's rights enthusiasts have their own pizza?

[Auric Demonocles]

Okay everyone, you guys can stop arguing about this. I'm currently sitting about 1.5 miles from there, and haven't had dinner yet. I'll just go on over and pick some up to try out after work.

I'll report back on a scale from shot-dead to would-survive-a-HnR-pizza-thread.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm going to mail you an cooked pizza via extra-slow mail.

[Auric Demonocles]

I'm going to take that as a sign of your respect for me, and not as an act of biological war.

[Pro Libertate]

Since pizza can never go bad, as the army has now learned, it's just a tasty treat.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

You guys always seem to live within 1 mile of places covered in articles.

[Auric Demonocles]

I don't live here, I just work out here.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Live, work. Tomato, tomahtoo.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm no longer surprised at how often something local comes up. I mean, it's Florida.

[GILMORE]

"A native of Rhode Island, which has a sizable Italian population, [Natick senior food technnologist Michelle] Richardson says..."

"...hopefully the success of this invention will allow her to finally move away from Rhode Island, which has a sizable Italian population."

[Auric Demonocles]

I'm pretty sure she already has moved from there. It's certainly possible to work in Natick and live in Rhode Island, but you'd have to love driving.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Racist and anti-government hate groups in decline, but still a danger to America

Beyond that it may be worth noting that bigoted and incivil rhetoric comes from all sides of the current social and political discourse whether its on Twitter, webpages or the comment sections of newspapers. However, with the right wing more splintered, populist and conspiracy oriented and without the unity of message that comes from tight leadership, it seems much bigotry is coming from "transmitters" who still have one foot in the mainstream. More prominently, bigotry and incivility, is increasingly becoming a way that influential commentators get more notoriety, whether it be the racial taunting of Ted Nugent, the homophobia of Ann Coulter and the Duck Dynasty patriarch or the sometimes over the top anti-religious rants of comic genius Bill Maher.

While there is good news in a reduction in the number of hate groups, those that remain may very well be more dangerous as a sustained core of more radicalized adherents sticks around. Even with the declines the numbers are still near record highs. And some of those who left, may have not changed their bigotry, but rather have found a home in a splintered mainstream socio-political climate that tolerates dog whistle bigotry when it doesn't come overtly wrapped in a Klan robe or swastika.

Liberty is a dog whistle word.

[Pro Libertate]

"Constitution" and "limited government" are words of the racist and the hater. Do not listen to these words.

[JW]

"Beware the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

[Pro Libertate]

I could live with government oppression under the enlightened leadership of Dr. Zaius. Sadly, no one of his ilk walks the Earth. Not yet, anyway.

[JW]

Those are worship words, Yang worship. You will not speak it.

[Pro Libertate]

Yeah, same thought occurred to me. Think Star Trek hit the nail on the head with that one.

[JW]

It made me think of Planet of the Apes, too, for some reason, but I couldn't find a more on point quote than that.

[Pro Libertate]

It's odd that no one has ever mashed up the two. Kirk, Spock, and McCoy in place of Taylor and crew, and, of course, none of them actual dies or gets permanently lobotomized. Otherwise, a Star Trek episode: "Who Mourns for Dr. Zaius?"

Rather than The Twilight Episode it actually really is.

[Warty]

Director, Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism, California State University

"We need increased funding now more than ever!"

This is a grant application, nothing more.

[mad libertarian guy]

comic genius Bill Maher

This is how you know that it's safe to ignore this guy.

[mr simple]

Debbie Dingell, husband of Rep. John Dingell (D-Mich.)

I didn't realize we had our first gender-bending couple in the House. Good for them.

[The Late P Brooks]

Because all homos are effeminate, Serious.

One summer, when I was in college, I was working in a warehouse in Long Island City and working out in a gym right over the bridge in Manhattan. I didn't know anything about it, other than that it was conveniently located, and the price was right. That place was full of the biggest, strongest faggots you ever saw. And they were all totally cool. Everybody was just there to get a good workout.

[Corning]

working out in a gym

Totally gay.

If you are not climbing mountains, chopping wood and pulling salmon out of rivers with your bare hands for your work out you are gay gay gay!

[jesse.in.mb]

Wait, I like hiking and shun gyms...

Do I like women now?

*experiences identity crisis*

[Coeus]

More of Krugman's greatest hits:

The truth is that the pre-DeMint Heritage was Hack Central, producing garbage posing as research. It promoted the death tax scam;

Guess what he means by death tax scam.

[Sevo]

Well, he means death tax, but he's hoping people think he's using hyperbole.

[Some call me Tim?]

The estate tax isn't real? Calling a tax on your estate a "death tax" is a scam? Am I close?

[a better weapon]

That the death tax is beneficial to all, even those it is forcibly confiscated from because it builds the roads for them to drive to their banks and accountant's office?

Oh, and that it doesn't go far enough?

I have to be close, right?

[Cdr Lytton]

If its not a death tax, then is it a death penalty?

[Corning]

Death fine.

[Dead or In Jail]

ooh, I know the answer to this one.

The idea is that "death tax" is a loaded word and anyone who uses it instead of "Estate tax" is a big meanie...

[PapayaSF]

The idea that inheritance taxes hurt anyone who doesn't deserve it?

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Heritage:

Every day, social and economic decisions are made with the estate tax in mind. Minority businesspeople suffer anxious moments wondering whether the businesses they hope to hand to down to their children will be destroyed by the estate tax bill. Factories drone on with worn-out equipment that would be replaced if capital costs fell. Women who have raised their children struggle to find ways to re-enter the work force without upsetting the family's estate tax avoidance plan.
Kruggie:

What do these examples have in common? They almost never happen.

What a fucking rube. In Maryland, where the estate exemption is lower than Federal, we have wealthy elderly clients moving away all the time as just one example of planning to avoid estate taxation.

[tarran]

Krugman is such a lying sack of shit!

Let's look at some New York Life promotional copy:

Besides replacing the lost income of a wage earner, the proceeds from a life insurance policy can pay the estate's income taxes, state death taxes, funeral costs, any outstanding debts, and other miscellaneous expenses that occur at death

During my stint selling life insurance, whenever we spoke to a business owner, the calculation of their estate tax burden was one of the first tasks in calculatign their life insurance needs (right after lifetime income calculations).

Again Krugman is being a lying sack of shit.

The good news is that two decades after he kicks the bucket, Krugabe will be forgotten, like all shills inevitably are when they stop being useful to those for whom they shill.

[Drake]

If you love your kids, do like the Kennedy's and move out of Massachusetts before you die. Trust me.

[Pro Libertate]

You know, if government simply must meddle, why not do so to strongly incentivize economic growth? Instead of taxes on people making money (or on their inheritance or capital gains), why not a dearth tax--a tax on people who don't contribute enough?

[Cytotoxic]

Two points:

1) Another reason Canada is superior. No inheritance tax.

2) Heritage IS hack central. Their immigration research is trash.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

No but upon death, a property owner can't transfer ownership without crystallizing a capital gains tax. For example, when my parents die, the properties they own will automatically become a tax burden for us.

One way they could have avoided this was to put them in trust, but my father ignored his accountants advice on that for some reason. He was pretty sound and rational with his investments but that one was perplexing and he can't explain why he did either as he's forgotten by now.

[Len Bias]

Probably already posted somewhere else on this board, but it still makes me so mad on so many levels:

"ObamaCare and My Mother's Cancer Medicine: The news was dumbfounding. She used to have a policy that covered the drug that kept her alive. Now she's on her own."

http://online.wsj.com/news/art.....ding_now_1

And NO, THIS IS NOT AN UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE.

[PapayaSF]

Haven't you heard? All Obamacare horror stories are false!

[GILMORE]

"Republicans don't really care about people, they are just *exploiting people's suffering* for their political ends: therefore, this is all FAKE OUTRAGE"

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/0.....e_outrage/

So, Mom dying of cancer can't get her meds?

pppppttpttt! You're just another GOP SHILL!!

[a better weapon]

In a pair of Supreme Court decisions today, the court ruled that police can search homes without warrants if a resident consents, even if another resident refuses, and in another case, that the courts can freeze a defendant's assets prior to a court case, even if it interferes with the defendant's ability to hire a lawyer to fight the charges.

It's overworked, outmatched, state defense attorney's all the way down!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Ode to the Muffin Top: a body positive rap

[Episiarch]

Jesus fucking Christ, that is more unbearable than nicole.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

She'll be performing a drunken rendition at her bachelorette party.

[jesse.in.mb]

Holy crap. I hadn't even thought of the bachelorette party. Think of the debauchery!?

[Warty]

I could probably find something more awful, but it would take some work.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

http://www.slate.com/authors.amanda_marcotte.html

There ya go.

Still, that video... that was a doozie.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Florida woman arrested after she calls 911 hoping to seduce attractive cop

A Punta Gorda woman was arrested Friday night for misuse of 911, after asking dispatchers to send an officer she found attractive back to her home for some 'extra duty.'

Police say the initial 911 call happened just after 6 p.m., when Maria Montenez-Colon complained that she wanted her Corvette back.

When the officer arrived at the Almar Drive home, he said Montenez-Colon was very drunk.

The 58-year-old immediately told the officer he was sexy and asked if he was married, according to the incident report. Then she started over-sharing.

Montenez-Colon allegedly told the officer, "I haven't been penetrated in years," and "I am so horny."

The officer tried to steer the conversation back to the topic of the call, asking what he could do for her.

Montenez-Colon's response was "You can [expletive] me," according to the report.

[PapayaSF]

Gee, how could he have turned down that hot babe?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Screw you for making me click.

[PapayaSF]

Sorry, bro. Your curiosity drowned out your sarcasm detector.

[Ted S.]

But officers using the DMV database to get the addresses of hot women is completely OK.

[Ted S.]

This story isn't true anyway, since it's predicated on the idea of cops being good looking.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

You think Morgan Fairchild goes for just anyone, you bigorati?

[Agammamon]

. . . docked Asiana Airlines $500,000 for failing to promptly contact passengers' families and keep them informed about their loved ones after a deadly crash last year at San Francisco International airport.

Why is it the *airline's* responsibility to do this? Shouldn't I fall on the people who want to keep in contact with their relative's responsibility to do this. Or, shouldn't it fall on the government's shoulders - since they're the ones who are keeping the 'official' casualty count and doing the accident investigation.

Next time someone is murdered are we going to see the murderer charged with failing to notify the family of the deceased?

[Juice]

the courts can freeze a defendant's assets prior to a court case, even if it interferes with the defendant's ability to hire a lawyer to fight the charges.

Wow. I mean, god damn. That's just...totalitarian right there.

[Cytotoxic]

That's why BTC or some cryptocurrency will save us all.

[jesse.in.mb]

NY Times Video: VHS vs. Communism

One woman anonymously translated and dubbed western movies in Communist Romania bringing shlocky '80s flicks to the masses. The video has a bunch of Romanians discussing "The Voice."

She discusses what the censorship committee would cut from imported films including large meals from Tom & Jerry cartoons.

[jesse.in.mb]

Not to flog my own link, but I highly recommend this.

[Tejicano]

Cool link.

A buddy of mine was an embassy guard in Romania in about 1978. He said he had his room fixed up and repainted in exchange for a single Playboy magazine. He said they cut the pictures up and sold each individually.

He also told about another Marine who met an American girl who was studying there. She was so tired of the bland, repetitive food that she would blow him just for a few boxes of breakfast cereal.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Clarence Thomas recalls that race wasn't as big an issue as child for him as it is today, Slate's Dahlia Lithwick is here to set this Uncle Tom straight

Maybe the reason the issue of race never came up in Thomas' boyhood Georgia wasn't because everyone had thicker skin back then. Maybe the issue never came up because color simply determined everything: where you could sip water, where you could swim, where you could go to school, which doctors you could see, which gas stations would allow you to use their restrooms. Maybe there was a lot less to talk about, not because nobody noticed racial differences but because the legal regime crafted to perpetuate those differences was omnipresent and seemingly impregnable.

People didn't talk about cancer in the '50s either. That doesn't mean it didn't exist.

But Thomas was actually there, Lithwick wasn't. And yet she lacks the courage to even outright accuse Thomas of lying or downplaying it.

[Episiarch]

Yes, but she FEELZ it, so she knows. Someone who lived it? Fuck them.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Thomas is a police state Negro.

You read it here first.

[Calidissident]

And you wonder why you get called racist.

[Palin's Buttplug]

It is the "police state" part that is offensive.

Today was the last straw. Thomas is fucking useless as a defender of liberty.

[Calidissident]

In case you haven't been paying attention lately, "Negro" has not been an accepted term to refer to black people for a few decades now. Nor do I see how his race is relevant to him defending the police state.

[Palin's Buttplug]

True, because "Negro" has a connotation pertaining to keeping one's place intact and not challenging the status quo.

It applies here.

[Marc F Cheney]

Maybe Bo can explain to us why it isn't racist.

[mad libertarian guy]

Nor do I see how his race is relevant to him defending the police state.

This.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

When you die, will the police find out by the smell or by your sister-wife's jubilant, maniacal peals of laughter?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Joe: Barty, you look like shit!
Barack: Who the fuck is Barty?
Joe: Not...sure. You look like crap, nigga.
Barack: Yeah well, you try and undo 238 years of bull shit in eight!

[Palin's Buttplug]

RACIST!

[The Late P Brooks]

You know, if government simply must meddle, why not do so to strongly incentivize economic growth?

You slay me.

[Pro Libertate]

A dearth tax on the nonproductive. It sounds almost Marxist leftie to me.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Georgia man with penis tattoo cleared of obscenity charges stemming from sexting unsolicited pictures to a woman

The US state of Georgia's supreme court has dismissed an obscenity case against a man who sent a woman an unsolicited photo of his tattooed penis in a text message.

The court ruled unanimously that the 1970 law applied only to "tangible" material sent through the post.

Charles Lee Warren faced up to three years in prison.

Mr Warren was arrested after he texted the photo in October 2012 and the woman went to the police.

The obscenity law under which he was prosecuted makes it a felony to send unsolicited material depicting nudity or sexual conduct unless the "envelope or container" in which it is sent bears a warning in "at least eight-point boldface type".

The arguments in the case were heard in front of the Georgia high court in November.

On Monday, the court said the case was not being dismissed merely because electronic text messaging did not exist in 1970 when the law was passed.

"The specific prohibition is clearly aimed at tangible material that is delivered in a tangible manner... and because appellant did not send anything through the mail, he did not violate this prohibition," reads the opinion, which overturned a lower court's decision.

Back in my day guys had to mail their dick pics via the postal service!

[Coeus]

heart_of_copperURebecca Rose201L
I've received an unwanted dick pic from someone right after I told him I wasn't interested. I quickly responded and told him that that was harassment and that if he did it again, I would treat it as such. I never heard from him again, but I spent the next week or so terrified of running into him, of receiving more pictures (iPhone had no way to block numbers at the time), and was scared that he might otherwise follow, intimidate, threaten, or harm me. I'd only just met him. He was weird and red-flag-y and gross. I had no way of knowing whether it really was just a shameless last-ditch effort to get my attention or if he was some kind of psycho who was going to keep messing with me or worse.

Case in point: I know it's just a picture, but I don't think men realize just how scary it can be. It can and does come off as a threat, especially if you've made it clear that you don't want it. Oh, you don't want me? Well guess what, you're going to look at my cock. Guess what else I'm gonna do? That's how it comes off as

[jesse.in.mb]

Back in my day guys had to mail their dick pics via the postal service!

Speaking of dick pics, where is Thane today?

[Jarl ? the booty]

Jarl was taking a nap.

[jesse.in.mb]

*curtsies apologetically*

Of course your Jarlness.

[Brett L]

A friend of mine is part of a local craft brewery that has claimed to be starting up here in Tallahassee for a year or so. They were taking suggestions for beer names on FB. The clear winner so far: Seminole Fluid.

[Pro Libertate]

I've seen some very hurt looks from my FSU friends when someone has referred to the Seminoles as the Semenholes. I fear this name would encourage such behavior.

[Brett L]

Yeah, some people can't take a joke. Also, my friend is a GIT grad like robc, not sure about his partners.

[Pro Libertate]

They have no sense of humor. I dated a GT PhD (Industrial Engineering) years ago, and she was quite serious about the glories of Georgia Tech. Which is a very good school, but it was all a bit much.

We did agree that the "University" of Georgia is an abomination before God and an affront to all that is just and good in the world.

[Palin's Buttplug]

UGA grad 81.

Fuck you both.

[Brett L]

He's a Gator, PB. Nothing we can wish on him will be worse than when he straps on his jorts for another season of disappointment in The Swamp.

[Pro Libertate]

I dunno, let's see if you win a couple of championships in a few years or just this measly one in decades. And how's that basketball team doing? And, academically, how is FSU? Is it better than UCF yet?

Of course Shrike went to Georgia. All is as it should be.

[Mike M.]

He neither went to the University of Georgia, nor does he live in Georgia.

[Clich? Bandit]

Kinda on TOPIC but:
Here in Denver I heard the WORST news. Bill who owns part of (and is the artist behind) Prost is quitting cause his other partners decided to sell the land to a developer. THEY JUST FUCKING WON A GOLD!

The place is always busy. I love his beer. I do not know what I will do without it. FUUUCCCCKKKK!!!!

[jesse.in.mb]

Victory Fund to back two Republican candidates.

The Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund on Tuesday will announce that it is backing former Massachusetts state senator Richard Tisei and former University of New Hampshire dean Dan Innis, according to an announcement shared early with The Washington Post.

Both men are running in top-targeted races -- Tisei against Rep. John Tierney (D-Mass.) and Innis against Rep. Carol Shea-Porter (D-N.H.). Tisei is running again after losing narrowly in 2012; Innis faces former congressman Frank Guinta (R) in his primary.

About fucking time. I'm curious why the declined to back Carl DeMaio though.

The Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund has previously backed six LGBT candidates for Congress, five of them being incumbent Democrats.

[Palin's Buttplug]

So you're another closet Republican here at H&R.

Have you no shame?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Gaybashing and racism -- well done.

Will he go for the trifecta by making a sexist remark? Stay tuned!

[Heroic Mulatto]

I would support anyone running against Shea-Porter and Guinta, regardless of party affiliation.

[jesse.in.mb]

Umm, no. I believe that gay rights organizations have made a massive strategic misstep by not making solid inroads with with half of the political duopoly. By tying all of their hopes to the Democrats they get a shit-ton of talk and very little action from politicians. If politicians had to show results to get access to a fairly lucrative fundraising block you can bet Harry Reid wouldn't have tried to sabotage the end of DADT just to get a little more juice out of an election cycle.

Were the Republican party the party that adherents pretend it is: pro-economic growth, less government interference in our lives, I probably would lean more R than D, but they aren't and I root pretty much equally the Dems and Reps to implode and give us a new coalition of political interests.

[Pro Libertate]

Look at how badly blacks have suffered tying practically everything to the Democrats. Their votes are simply and rightfully assumed.

Gays would be smart to avoid that fate.

[jesse.in.mb]

Gays would be smart to avoid that fate.

Once upon a time the HRC wasn't quite so lopsided. It has tied support to new left interests other than gay rights which makes it impossible to support non-Dem candidates. I'm cautiously optimistic about Victory Fund's move here.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Were the Republican party the party that adherents pretend it is: pro-economic growth, less government interference in our lives, I probably would lean more R than D, but they aren't and I root pretty much equally the Dems and Reps to implode and give us a new coalition of political interests.

I am on your side, whatever it is called these days.

And I am all for an independent LP leaning 3rd party that skims enough votes off the other two to become a power broker in Congress.

If the LP only gained 10% of Congress that number would become a juggernaut.

[mad libertarian guy]

And I am all for an independent LP leaning 3rd party that skims enough votes off the other two to become a power broker in Congress.

I fear that even this is impossible so long as the media openly fellates Team BLUE. Libertarians are portrayed as EVEN WORSE than Team RED.

[grrizzly]

You have no shame being a Dem hack.
How dare those homos escape from the Dem plantation!?

[Palin's Buttplug]

WHO DIS?

I escaped the GOP plantation years ago.

They fed me enough JeeBuz and flag-waving pap to last a planet's lifetime.

When the Bushpig's showed up and doubled the size of govt and tripled the police state and drove us to trillion dollar deficits I said FUCK YOU to the GOP forever.

[Cytotoxic]

So you're trying to compensate for being a GOP hack by being a Dem hack. How totally typically retarded of you PB.

[Coeus]

Stop defending yourself. You have a penis, it's not right.

Bright Eyes frontman Conor Oberst filed a lawsuit last Thursday seeking $1 million in damages from the woman who accused him of raping her in the comments section on an xoJane article. Now a domestic violence advocacy is asking him to drop the suit, even if he's innocent.

According to Spin, Right to Speak Out contends that the lawsuit contributes to the culture of silence surrounding rape:

[paranoid android]

According to Spin, Right to Speak Out contends that the lawsuit contributes to the culture of silence surrounding rape:

I'm guessing they're not quite as concerned about his accuser's contributions to the culture of narcissistic mendacity.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Lying Bitch & Apologists for Lying Bitch,

You have no right to accuse people of felonies they did not commit. You have no right to set the merciless hammer of the state against an innocent man. Not all men are rapists, nor are they interchangeable.

Sincerely,

A.C.

[mad libertarian guy]

I'm futilely trying to potty train my near 3 year old son.

I now know why people drink.

[mad libertarian guy]

Futilely.

[Pro Libertate]

It's easier with girls, but like much with kids, it's usually a matter of letting them figure it out and not stressing too much when they resist. Until they're older, then the beatings should begin.

[mad libertarian guy]

Modern research suggests that the "girls are easier than boys" is hogwash. The newest theory is that potty training has traditionally been primarily performed by mothers (because until very recently they were the ones who stayed home to rear children), whether they're training a boy or girl, and that boys simply aren't as receptive to a woman teaching them how to pee. It also suggests that when a man tries to teach a boy to pee, he learns just as quickly as girls have traditionally.

[Pro Libertate]

Modern research is full of shit. I've heard the same thing from a stay-at-home dad I know.

[mad libertarian guy]

My first boy was pretty easy. This second one is anything but. It's a power play at this point. He actually got off the toilet this afternoon, and went immediately to pee on the dining room floor.

I'm trying not to allow the frustration to show, but by the end of the day it gets increasingly hard to do so. We've tried to use treats as an incentive, and he's tried to use every manipulative technique he has at his disposal to get me to give him a treat before he pees. I spent from 3-6.30 going back and forth to the bathroom about 40 times (no lie), each time an attempt to trick me in to giving him a treat. Then came the "I'm going to get off the toilet with the sole intent of peeing on the floor" trick which about sent me in to a rage. But I can't do that.

Instead I've come to the understanding as to why people drink. My problem is that I fucking hate drinking.

[Brett L]

Well, shit. But they're totally worth it you say? Elsewise, I'm selling mine about the time he can be weaned.

[Coeus]

A Revenge Porn Bill May Be Coming to New York State

Posting nude or nearly-nude images of people without permission is wrong and has become such an epidemic that something must be done.

[paranoid android]

has become such an epidemic that something must be done.

Does she go on to say that the current legal environment is "the Wild West" and include some mealy-mouthed nothings about the need to "balance" people's freedom?

I want to see how many moral crusade cliches she can fit in one paragraph.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

I thought Chris Kluwe said the Vikings were not fond of the gays.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

I thought Chris Kluwe said the Vikings were not fond of the gays.

[Calidissident]

Apparently, the owner is actually gay-friendly. It was a position coach who supposedly had a problem with them, and the GM and the head coach didn't like the distraction

[Brett L]

Thanks. I thought the hockey fans would enjoy it.