Obamacare

President Obama's Worthless Apology

|

Whitehouse.gov

To the millions of Americans who have lost their health plans this year as a result of Obamacare, despite his pledge that they could keep their plans if they liked them, President Obama has something he'd like to say. He's sorry…sort of.

In an interview with NBC News last night, the president was asked whether he owed an apology to the millions of people who have already lost plans this year. Here's what he said: "I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me."  

To the extent that it matters, this is not a very good apology. For one thing, it gets the cause and effect wrong: People aren't "finding themselves" in "this situation"—the situation of having insurance plans they liked cancelled—because of Obama's "assurances." They are finding themselves in that situation because of legislation that his party crafted, rules his administration drafted, and a bill that he promoted vigorously and then signed into law. His assurances misled people about what would happen under that law, but did not cause the plans to be terminated. 

But Obama isn't sorry for the law, or its intended effects. Notice also what Obama is carefully not apologizing for: the actual cancellation notices now being sent to millions of Americans. There's a reason for that. As The Washington Post's Sarah Kliff writes, "eliminating certain health plans from the market—ones that the White House thinks are too skimpy—is a feature, not a bug, of the Affordable Care Act."

Obama isn't sorry about the cancellations, in other words, because they were intended all along. Despite his recent rhetorical revisionism, Obama explicitly promised otherwise, repeatedly, in order to help make the case for passing the law. It was a calculated and intentional deception. But apparently the president remains unrepentant about that. If there's news here, it's not that he apologized. It's that he does not appear to be sorry that he lied. 

NEXT: Obama Economy Labor Force Participation Rate Hits Low Not Seen Since 1977

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. He’s sorry you feel that way.

    1. That was my first thought too. “I’m sorry you were offended.”

    2. after all, it’s not his money.

    3. He’s the real victim.

      1. Nobody’s more upset about all this than he is. Your petty and selfish discontent is utterly insignificant before the terrible depths of bathic despair he now suffers on your behalf. You really should be thanking him.

        1. before the terrible depths of bathic Baathic despair

          FIFY

    4. I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me.

      You know something? I, too, am sorry that these people are finding themselves i nthis situation based on assurances that they got from him.

      But by saying exactly what Obama said, I’m not apologizing to anyone. I’m describing my internal state, not taking responsibility for anything.

      What a passive, weak little man he is. No wonder every two-bit tinhorn dictator (foreign and domestic) has taken his measure and know he’s nobody to worry about.

      Still, silver lining: his Presidency is over as an active force in politics. He’ll still do a lot of damage with appointments and executive orders and regulations and shit, but I expect even that to taper off some as he obsesses narcissistically on his legacy and library.

      And what a festival of corruption his library will be. So we have that to look forward to.

      1. Speaking of his library, how many blocks of some poor Chicago neighborhood will be razed for that thing?

        1. I kinda hope they raze the entire city.

        2. I’m hearing it’s going to be a combination library and celebrity wax museum. O with Jay Z in the living room, O shooting hoops with MJ etc.

      2. Still, silver lining: his Presidency is over as an active force in politics.

        And now comes the dangerous part where his Dictatorship comes out since he can’t play politics anymore.

      3. I, too, am sorry that these people are finding themselves i nthis situation based on assurances that they got from him.

        I’m not, if they voted for him.

        I hope this lesson hurts.

        1. Wait- you think evidence in plain sight will change minds? Bwaaaahahaha!

      4. I can’t wait until 2017 or so when the tell-all books start coming out detailing exactly how poorly HHS managed Obamacare. I can’t wait to see what kinds of conversations happened behind closed doors back in the first week of Oct. 2013. I bet it was about half cheap soap opera, half The Office.

          1. I know it’s been leaking out. It always does, usually on the condition of anonymity. I can’t wait to see what people say when they no longer fear repurcussions and are actively trying to distance themselves from this debacle.

          2. From the link:
            “”You’re basically trying to build a complicated building in a war zone, because the Republicans are lobbing bombs at us,” the White House official said.”

            Yeah, you miserable leaches, that’s what happens when you jam something through without a bit of support from the opposition party: They *OPPOSE* you.
            You deserve every bit of problems you have and much, much more.

        1. Oh, not only this debacle, but the whoooole presidency. The chapters on Jarrett are going to be golden. Who could play her in the movie? Linda Hunt is too old now. Maybe Macauley Culkin.

      5. Library? I thought everything was on line now. If he wants, he can have a pay wall. It’s a wall we can all live with. It won’t interfere with immigration and we won’t want to tear it down in the name of freedom.

        1. jester,

          You have a good idea of an “online” library for him.

          He should be interested because he pulled for putting things online in order to cut costs and save gazillions of wasted dollars.

          But wait, the online thingy doesn’t seem to work well for Mr. Obama. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

      6. And what a festival of corruption his library will be.

        Can’t they just build a wing onto the Nixon Library?

        1. Stop insulting Nixon. The dude resigned over far less a criminal act than the suaual stuff the Obama’s administration has been up to.

      7. Library?

        A temple to the god-president would be more appropriate.

      8. Won’t be much in the library. He can’t write about his pre-Chicago life. He wrote nothing as far as anyone can tell prior to becoming President. And, it appears he has done nothing since becoming Prez.

        A store-front on an abandoned block in Chicago should do it.

      9. Library ?

        This CnC would seal all the records on his life.

        How can he have a library ? What wold they put in it ?

    5. Mistakes were made.

      1. I think he’s sugar-coating it.

      2. Lies were told. Policies were cancelled.

    6. Sorry I’m not sorry.

  2. I’ve said this before in another post, but I think it bears repeating. Even after all the problems with Obamacare, he is not offering to make any substantial changes. He’d doing verbal damage control, and that’s it. He has no intention of changing anything and is going to keep this thing going full force.

      1. Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead….over the cliff.

    1. The end of November deadline is coming fast. I’ll bet panic has already set in amongst those directly charged with fixing this mess, assuming any of them are competent enough to realize the true state of things.

      1. You can forget T-day off this year.

        1. You kidding? This is the government we’re talking about. They’ll use the holiday as their prime excuse for why things still weren’t ready on time.

          1. Had they been smarter, the Dems could have extended the debt limit to 25 November.

    2. It seems like there have been some mumblings in Congress among the D’s about delaying some provisions. But I’m sure whatever they will do will be patchwork to plug a few holes, and more importantly to try and distract everyone from the fact the damn isn’t just crumbling, but was never very substantial to begin with.

    3. “we’re going to do everything we can to deal with folks who find themselves in a tough position as a consequence of this.”
      ———————-
      I consider this to be the most appropriate part of the non-apology for followup. It was the ONE part that’s testable, since he promised action. I wish Chuck Todd had asked for specifics. It should be the next line in the video loops and Youtubes that reveal his growing mountain of lies.

  3. “I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me.”

    Procedures were followed, weapons were discharged, families were found in situations…

  4. Il Douche is sorry that you feel that he needs to apologize.

    1. He’s sorry that he had to lie, but we poor, benighted fools forced it out of him. We should all be sorry.

      1. The law was for out own good and the lie was necessary to pass the law. He did it for us and now we have the gall to demand an apology!?

        1. Unbelievable, no? We call the ACA his signature achievement as if it’s some feather in his cap, when in actuality it was a cross he personally bore up the hill, beset on all sides by enemies and doubters, and when in a moment (or thirty) of weakness he let slip a misstatement and thereby surrendered some tenth of a percent of the all-encompassing goodness in his heart, we have the temerity to call him a liar for it.

          Well, I say: let he who has not fibbed in the service of promoting landmark encroachments on personal autonomy cast the first stone. We are all guilty.

    2. Il Douche.

      Nice, haven’t heard that one.

      1. I’m rather fond of referring to him as a twatwaffle, myself.

  5. What I would really like to hear from him is something like this:

    “To the millions of healthy Americans who are now finding that their premiums have doubled or tripled, or that their plans now have higher deductibles, fewer providers in their network, and more out of pocket costs, due to the additional benefits we required in the essential benefits package and the community ratings feature of the law, I apologize. My advisors told me that this plan would not make anyone’s coverage worse or substantially more expensive. Perhaps we didn’t think this law through thoroughly enough. We did not fully understand the impact that these provisions of the law would have on middle class Americans making slightly more than the limit for subsidies. I will not do my utmost to revise the law to be fair to everyone. No middle class houshold should have to face 100% or more increases in premiums for the sake of the goal, however noble, of universal healthcare.”

    1. er s/not/now

      1. More accurate the original way.

      2. Freudian slip.

    2. “Perhaps we’re arrogant fucks, so arrogant and our heads so far up our own sweet smelling asses, that we shouldn’t be trusted to run a derelict Arby’s on a forgotten back road, let alone 1/8 of the American economy that is literally a life or death situation for some people.

      And for that, we can only say, what did you expect from lying sociopaths? Besides, you happily voted for us, so fuck you.”

      1. I’m leaving the Obama the face-saving option of blaming the whole thing on his circle die-hard partisan socialist progressive advisors. It’s pretty clear that people in “health policy” circles knew perfectly well that some people would get hammered hard by premium increases, and considered that a feature not a bug. They LIKE ass-raping the middle class.

        But especially given that he stumbled around blindly repeating blatant lies for years, he could at least claim that HE had no idea what they were really planning. He could plausibly claim that they didn’t fully brief him on the laws really impacts. he could claim he was manipulated by his evil advisors, wipe the slate clean and start over.
        Basically he could blame the whole thing on Rahm Emanuel’s idiot brother, who obviously hasn’t a political clue in his body.

        1. I’m all for this. Obama can wholly redeem himself if he sells his party down the river er I mean sells out his party. Oh jeez, that’s not, like, racist, is it?

          Regardless, I expect by the end of this debacle most Democrats will be walking back the progressive label and eschewing their hands in the clustermess that the ACA is swiftly developing.

          1. I doubt your hopeful expectations. Instead, it is the Republicans fault. That’s what you’ll hear. And in an obtuse way, that isn’t entirely incorrect.

            1. Their fingerprints are all over this thing. If Republicans can, for just one electoral season, avoid appearing homophobic/misogynistic/racist, i.e. direct the political capital building over their opposition to the ACA away from pointless, unwinnable socon debates and toward reforming health insurance, we have a shot at salvaging healthcare.

              Which means we’re screwed, because they won’t, because these mouthbreathing cretins will continue their rearward fight in the KULTUR WAR rather than rolling back some element of Democratic socialism.

              1. You seem to believe the R’s have a plan for how to reform health insurance. I’ve seen no evidence of that.

                1. You seem to believe the R’s have a plan for how to reform health insurance. I’ve seen no evidence of that.

                  I believe Mike Lee has a couple of ideas. Not that the mainstream GOP is listening.

                2. Not what they’re doing?

                3. You should look closer.

                  There have been more than one such plan. That they have never gotten past Harry Reid and the MSM is the real problem.

              2. What did Lindsay Graham just do in the way of legislation introduction?

              3. If Republicans can, for just one electoral season, avoid appearing homophobic/misogynistic/racist, i.e. direct the political capital building over their opposition to the ACA away from pointless, unwinnable socon debates and toward reforming health insurance, we have a shot at salvaging healthcare.
                ——————-
                You’ll be glad to know that Lindsey Graham has just proposed some new abortion restrictions for your consideration.

            2. Right now, the Dems have still closed ranks behind ObamaCare, but the cracks are beginning to show.

              I’m hoping the Republicans DON’T pass a bill to let people keep their current policies. They could get SO MUCH MORE. And anyway, how is it fair that new market entrants are the only ones being forced to pay the higher rates? They should revise the essential benefits package and go a for a 5-1 ratio in the community rating. Force the Democrats to veto that.

          2. …most Democrats will be walking back the progressive label…

            It could happen. After all, it was national loathing of prohibition and Wilsonian progressivism that forced the FDR campaign to rename themselves “liberals”.

            This thing could go down as a progressive clusterf*** second only to prohibition.

      2. ::hesitant, confused applause::

    3. We did not fully understand the impact that these provisions of the law would have on middle class Americans making slightly more than the limit for subsidies

      He could say that, but I probably wouldn’t believe him.

    4. Hazel, that would just be another lie.

      Unless Obama is below-average intelligence, and I don’t completely rule out this possibility anymore, he had to have known that additional benefits and community ratings would raise premiums on a large number of people. He had to have known that it effectively prohibited certain forms of health insurance.

      Sure, the Obamatons and his MSM cheerleaders believed Obama’s Hope’n’Change? promises about Fundamental Transformation? to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; to slow the rise of the oceans and to heal our planet; to end war and restore America’s image around the world; and to fuel the world with with the audacity of hope and unicorn farts.

      But you don’t think he actually believed his own bullshit, do you?

      Ezekiel Emanuel, one of Obama’s ObamaCare advisers, said last Sunday that ObamaCare was designed to destroy the individual health insurance market. Such policies are the eggs that have to be broken to make an ObamaCare omelette.

      1. In Obummer’s recent comments about the people losing their health insurance, I noticed that rat bastard was very deliberate in stressing that “we’re talking about 5%” of policyholders.

        There’s fucking democracy for you: it’s only 5%, so fuck you. I don’t know if that statistic is true and I don’t give a shit.

        I can’t wait to see the impact that obobokare has upon the group market–yeah, THAT 8,000 ton gorilla in the room.

        What I wouldn’t give to hear a libertarian Republican go out there and say it like it is: “There is no free lunch. The government cannot write laws which purport to give you what you cannot earn on your own.” How wonderful that would be!

        1. Reminds me of that lame-o argument for outlawing abortion even for rape victims. “Only about 5% of them actually get pregnant.”

      2. “Ezekiel Emanuel, one of Obama’s ObamaCare advisers, said last Sunday that ObamaCare was designed to destroy the individual health insurance market. Such policies are the eggs that have to be broken to make an ObamaCare omelette.”

        I caught him on one of the morning shows. Is that guy creepy or what? I’m talking creepy in the Nazi sense.

        1. If the Emanuel brothers had been born German in the 1910s instead of Jewish 50 years ago, I have no doubt they’d be signing the execution orders at the camps.

          1. If they had been born German Jews in 1910, they’d have cooperated with the likes of Eichmann in their leadership roles in the Judenrat until it was time for them to go to the camps. There they’d have been leaders of the Sonderkommandos.

      3. I’m not too sure. I am kinda of starting to see Obama as sort of like a “mascot”. A public face for a “shadow government” of progressive policy wonks. They don’t keep him too informed, they just let him go around making blatantly false speeches while their quietly implement their true agenda.
        Keeping him uninformed about it helps let him continue to sound convincing and sincere.

        I mean, seriously, how many times has this guy been caught having no idea what was oging on in his own administration? The guy is NOT the one in control. That much should be obvious.

        1. Very likely that is the case; it fits well with Andrzej ?obaczewski’s general theory as described in Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes.

        2. The WH’s response to crisis has surely been focus group driven. Chauncey is in the loop, they would just rather he be mocked than thought to be evil. And they isn’t the White House, folks, that’s the people……rather the people that elected him that he needs to hold.

          I bet George Washington never saw that coming.

        3. Like I said, I don’t entirely rule out the possibility that he’s dimwitted any longer.

    5. You can continue to focus on the negative if you wish.
      Obama’s throng of supporters would rather focus on the positive. Subsidies! Vote Democrat!

  6. I will only accept one of two appologies:

    1: resignation, stripping of all assets and property followed by permanant exile.

    2: public seppuku, which will allow his half-wookies to inherit.

    I’m waiting Barry.

    1. There’s no reason it can’t be both.

      1. It could be a hybrid, resignation, asset stripping and seppuku. But there are some contradictory elements to the options initially given as they were written.

        1. I’ll compromise: strip half his assets before seppuku. The rest go into a trust for the churlen. Since Michelle is so awesome, I’m sure she can look after herself.

          1. Public flogging conducted by several in-costume bronies

    2. I was going to say this, but then we get Joltin’ Joe Biden as President.

      Actually, that might be good. Still the same stupid and incompetent governance, but a lot more funny.

      1. A Biden Presidency wouldn’t be half as funny as a Biden general election campaign with debates against Chris2ie.

    3. You cannot accept an apology that isn’t offered.

    4. 3. public bukkake?

  7. You don’t understand! He was saving these people from fraudulent insurance plans! They should thank him! All hail Dear Leader!

    1. I knew something was fishy when I bought a plan from Bad Apple Health Insurance Inc.

      1. Damn! My “cut rate” catastrophic insurance plan + HSA were really shitty. Now I get to GIVE all that money away instead of keeping it!

  8. Twist in the wind, Barry.

    It only gets worse from here.

    In one more month people will panic because they’ll have to actually shit or get off the pot on choosing a rotten healthcare.gov plan.

    Next year people have to start paying the jacked up premiums demanded by the new plans.

    Shortly after that, people will discover that their tax refunds are gone, eaten by the 1% taxable income mandate penalty.

    And after THAT, the small business plans start to die.

    Spacing out the impacts of the ACA helped with the last election, but it sets up a fucking impenetrable trail of tears eighteen months of agonizing pain for the Democrats as all these things drip out.

    1. It is all going to hit at once. That is a good point. Barry is so stupid he didn’t get the memo that you raise the temp slowly

      1. Ya’ll miss the point on this one: Barry doesn’t give a shit. He knows federal laws/regulations are nigh impossible to undo.

        This is just the shitstorm that’ll lead us closer to socialism, because Fuck You That’s Why.

        1. True. But I think the Dems in Congress who still have to stand for election are a little less hard nosed about it.

          1. Those votes were sooo long ago, President lied to me, etc.

            Standard bullshit lines will keep their numbers fine.

            1. I don’t think so. I think is going to be such an epic clusterfuck it will have definite repercussions. I’d be surprised if TEAM RED doesn’t control all three houses in 2016.

              1. I’d be surprised if TEAM RED doesn’t control all three houses in 2016.

                Prepare for your impending surprise then; Republicans can fuck up a wet dream.

          2. And what? They’ll lose to some genius clone of Lindsay Graham or Peter King.

          3. I’m worried about what he’ll do to the Supreme Court before his term ends. A bribe here, a blackmail there and a car accident there, and we have Lizzie Warren, Hillary and Eric Holder on the Court.

            1. Hillary would be the only one confirmed, if only to keep her from running. The R’s will hold up Feather-not-Dot and a Holder nomination would be laughed out of the beltway.

            2. Anybody wondered about Justice Robert’s vote when the SC ruled on the ACA, especially after Snowden went public?

      2. Barry don’t care. Implementation was postponed until after his re-elect, and his decision to convert his re-elect apparat (OFA) into a personal fiefdom rather than a Democrat Party op shows he doesn’t give a crap about the Party’s fortunes (except, of course, as they affect his).

    2. and October next year is open enrollment for everyone that still has employer-sponsored plans.

    3. You know what’s going to be funny?

      When the 3 or 4 million people who didn’t previously buy health insurance because they didn’t need it start doing so.

      That will pull a nice Half a billion a month in spending out of the economy, throw in the increased premiums for everyone else and you’re looking at somewhere around a billion a month in decreased economic activity, basically three quarters of a percent decrease in GDP

      1. I’m not laughing.

      2. Farewell indie coffee shop, the all-nite burger joint, the cool little boutique, the pilates studio, the new hair salon, the kids’ clothes shop, a few auto repair shops, a dance studio, the lumber business, the sheet metal business, the dog walker. We’re going back to the humble times.

    4. but it sets up a fucking impenetrable trail of tears eighteen months of agonizing pain for the Democrats as all

      Democrats? This will just continue to remind people what happens when the Republicans stand in the way the whole time! You’re never going to get things to run smoothly when half of Congress is beating you back every chance you get!

  9. “I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me.”

    A situation that Obama created and his “signature” legislation, supported by lies Obama told to gain public support.

  10. “I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me.”

    “They” are not “finding themselves” there; YOU put them there as a result of your LIES, not “assurances”.

    1. Rapist to woman:

      “I am sorry that you are finding yourself in this situation based on assurances that you got from me. Now bend over”

  11. I almost forgot the best part:

    And then after all that other stuff, the employer mandate hits, and small businesses start to pay their OWN penaltaxes.

    Wait until that happens.

    It will be a bloodbath.

  12. “based on my assurances”

    YOU FUCKED UP.

    YOU TRUSTED US.

    1. My suggestion is to drink heavily.

      1. Better listen to him, he’s pre-med.

        1. I’d be a pretty good doctor, that’s just about my standard advice.

    2. Quite honestly, anyone that trusts the Federal Government deserves whatever they get. Hopefully they die from stupidity in short order, so we can get back to making money.

  13. The bet is that people will get over this, adjust to their new normal and worse lives and go back to voting on gays and sodomy in 2016. And they very well may.

    The problem is that this may do so much damage that people can’t ignore it and something has to be done to fix it. If that is the case, the Dems might be in trouble, because Obama is never going to agree to fix it or really to any significant changes to the law. So what do the Dems do then?

    1. People aren’t just going to “forget” a $300 hole in their monthly income.

      1. Their AFTER-TAX, take-home monthly income.

      2. I would hope not.

        1. After some of the dumb shit I have seen people do or go along with, I am not inclined to hope much.

          Take a shit in one hand and hope in the other, and see which one fills up faster…

      3. “People aren’t just going to “forget” a $300 hole in their monthly income.”

        Only if they’re selfish and racist, Hazel.

        1. When it’s their money that’s missing, people don’t care what they’re being labelled as.

          1. But they only really tend to care about their quality of life. People will tolerate a lot of missing dollars if they still have shelter, food, water and the internet.

            1. How many people do you know that could loose $300 a month in income without having to scale back their lifestyle significantly?

              Also what happens to the economy when somewhere north of $1 Billion a month worth of spending money is removed from the economy and redirected to health insurance? How many jobs will be lost as a result?

              1. That’s going to be the “other shoe”. The economy is going to go into a fucking tailspin when people start having to pay higher premiums in January, and the economy shifts in a massive restructuring toward more health care provision.

                Of course, Demos will try to pin it on the shutdown.

                But we’re talking about massive amounts of money flowing toward medical care rather than cell phones or rent or mortgages.

                The economy doesn’t just instantly create more medical professionals either. You’re going to see job losses in many industries and shortages in healthcare. The oft-implicated “skills mismatch”.

                1. The indisputable effect of ObamaCare will be on the work ethic and ambition of young people who are currently at around 300% and 600% of poverty line.

                  Unless they have very long-term time horizons, the rational decision for them is to slack off such that they are never again making more than 400% of poverty line. The ObamaCare tax consequence are just too onerous.

                  A mid-50s married couple with AGI of $62100 faces a tax liability that is $7400 higher than they would have if they made $62000. In fact at $62,040, the magic 400% point, the marginal tax rate under ObamaCare is 740,000%. If the couple gets divorced, however, that magic 400% goes up to about $92,000 for the two of them.

                  Marginal income tax rates influence behavior. Six-digit marginal income tax rates will have a very strong influence on behavior, and not in a good way.

                  ObamaCare is either the most stupid pile-of-shit legislation in legislative history, or a brilliantly devious Trojan Horse designed to utterly destroy the middle class.

                2. “we’re talking about massive amounts of money flowing toward medical care rather than cell phones or rent or mortgages.”
                  ——————-
                  I say again, the money will not go to care; it will go into the ground. That’s the hell of it. Usually if money goes out of your pocket, something nice comes into your life, like a new stove, a pair of earrings, a trip to Europe, whatever. Thanks to Obamacare, that money will go out and nothing will come back. Not for you or anybody.

              2. Most people have enough buffer that they can lose a few hundred dollars a month and not starve. They will gripe, bitch and moan, but they will still have full bellies and that’s as far as it will go. Look at how much is getting taken out of every paycheck via FICA and income taxes. This is just another half turn on the vice.

                1. Yes, but the distance between those people and the people who just barely don’t qualify for subsidies is about $40,000.

              3. “Also what happens to the economy when somewhere north of $1 Billion a month worth of spending money is removed from the economy and redirected to health insurance? How many jobs will be lost as a result?”

                This is easy. Another Stimulus. Obama will ask for 2 Trillion and the Repubs will fight for 1 Trillion, and they’ll settle in the middle.
                Rinse and repeat

                1. Obama will ask for 2 Trillion and the Repubs will fight for 1 Trillion, and they’ll settle in the middle at around 2.5 Trillion.

              4. On the positive side, the healthcare corruption racket will grow like gangbusters. New billionaires. Innovation. Healthcare scamming will be the new high tech.

                1. I would be looking into the stock of private hospital chains right now.
                  Actually I should probably have done that a year ago.

                  1. If the private insurers start hurting, you shouldn’t necessarily assume that the healthcare providers will be insulated from that.

                    About one-third of all the ERs in this country have disappeared over the past 20 years, and that’s in no small part due to a number of hospitals themselves closing.

                    If they succeed in increasing the Medicaid rolls, that’s going to hurt certain providers–especially those with a lot of exposure to our inner cities, where people already didn’t have a lot of private insurance anyway.

              5. “what happens to the economy when somewhere north of $1 Billion a month worth of spending money is removed from the economy and redirected to health insurance?”
                —————–
                Not only redirected to health insurance, but poured into the ground. People are buying insurance for services they are physically, medically incapable of using.

            2. If they have teenaged kids, a missing $300/month will turn their lives to Hell.

    2. Obama will be long gone by the time the problems become too overwhelming to avoid, at which point it will just be about the Republican opposition to single payer having created the current situation.

      1. That is what he thinks. But it looks like that moment is coming next year not after he is gone.

        And if getting single payer were that simple, we would have it by now. And not every Dem wants single payer. Only about thirty percent fo the country supports it. So the single payer unicorn probably isn’t going to make an appearance.

        1. That’s pretty frightening actually if 30% of the country supports it. That’s pretty high, especially since stupid tends to multiply exponentially.

          1. To be fair, that’s 30% of the country who actually believe in unicorns.

      2. Wait until after the health insurance companies report earnings after Q1 of 2014.

        If ObamaCare makes it past that hurdle, I’ll start to believe it has a life past the next presidential election.

        1. Yeah, I really wonder how dems are going to take those record profits.

          1. They’re just not going to talk about it. Fake scandal.

          2. Why do you think that? They are going to be losing money.

            1. HAHAHAHA! Yeah right.

              They either get 30 million new customers, get to charge whatever they want for their premiums, or get to dump bad customers back onto the exchange. Actually, all 3, because if you don’t get insurance then you pay the Government your penile tax and they give it to the insurance companies anyways.

              It’s a great time to be in the business of health insurance.

              1. None of that is true. They are not getting new customers. And while they are jacking up rates, they are stuck treating people who thanks to the subsidies are over using the system. And they are also stuck paying for pre-existing conditions.

                This is going to kill the insurance industry.

                1. It’s going to result in another round of bailouts.

                  Too big to fail and it’s the Reps fault for standing in the way of this utopia.

              2. “It’s a great time to be in the business of health insurance.”

                I think you’re misreading that.

                Even if they charge up the ying yang, that means they’re going to have less revenue going forward.

                Even if they find some way to preserve their profits, they’re going to be operating at a much smaller scale.

                There certainly isn’t going to be a slew of healthy, young people who are suddenly paying more than $100 a month for a policy–by the end of Q1 2014?

                …so they can avoid a $95 fine in Q2 of 2015?

                Meanwhile those people with preexisting conditions don’t have a 1 in 10 chance of racking up a big charge. They’re a charge against earnings from January 1, 2014!

                Something’s gotta give. …and it’s going to show up on the insurers’ balance sheets one way or another.

                1. It’s a great time to be in the health CARE business. The insurance industry, not so much.

                  Those sky-high premiums will be going to doctors and hospital networks.

                  1. Until the feds inevitably impose wage and price controls on the industry.

                    ObamaCare already imposes price controls on the insurance business. Control of the provider prices is certain to follow if ObamaCare remains in place.

                    1. Until the feds inevitably impose wage and price controls on the industry.

                      Right. This is the plan for “reducing healthcare costs.” It always was. Socialists don’t understand the effect of supply and demand on prices. They think they can legislate hunkydoriness.

                    2. That is the plan, yeah. I mean, you could figure that out from reading Ezra Klein’s blog.

                      They were going to tackle access first, cost later. Using price controls.

                    3. “Until the feds inevitably impose wage and price controls on the industry.”

                      The only professional association union more powerful than the AMA is the American Bar Association.

                      …and I only say the ABA is a more powerful union because almost all of our legislators are a member of that union.

                      I’d bet against any legislation or reform that draws the ire of the AMA.

                2. Due to the website and the “grandfather” clauses they are about to loose 50 million +/- premium paying customers in a very short period of time.

                  Can you spell “bailout” ?

                  The insurance companies are interwoven with the “too big to fail ” banks. If the insurance companies go down this quick, so will the banks.

                  1. If Democrats wanted single player, or universal health care, they probably could have simply passed it instead of Obamacare.

                    I mean, it’s not like they had any Republican support for it. They had the house, senate, and the presidency and rammed it through.

                    Instead, this is a massive piece of corporatism (partly why the Republicans were pushing it originally). Both the insurance companies and health care industry will make out like bandits, and the lawyers won’t lose anything, like in an actual reform.

        2. Wait until after the health insurance companies report earnings after Q1 of 2014.

          I’m puzzled by how the early stages of a death spiral produce record profits. Could you explain, Ken?

          1. He is saying the profits won’t be there.

            1. On the other hand, neither will the risk be.

              It’s like being a regulated utility. Your profits are less, but you are pretty much guaranteed a steady return.

          2. I doubt the profits will be there.

            I think the charges they’ve taken on are much greater than the participation will be–and they were expecting that the increased participation would offset those charges.

            Even if they were just getting rid of preexisting conditions as an exclusion criteria, do you think they’re selling policies to more people to offset those costs now?

            Looks to me like not very many people are signing up. Looks to me like a lot of people are getting dropped–because the insurance companies can’t make profits on them anymore.

            As I keep saying, they MIGHT maintain their profitability, but they might have to live with a much smaller revenue stream. That means, their growth should go down, the multiple the market is assigning their p/e should drop…

            And we still haven’t talked about the pressure insurers are going to be under from providers to make up for the 20 million new Medicaid patients–that may start showing up at hospitals in the very near future.

            I’m not going long on any insurers any time soon, that’s for sure.

            1. “Looks to me like a lot of people are getting dropped–because the insurance companies can’t make profits on them anymore.”

              They are getting dropped because the ACA says they have to get dropped. If they existed before the ACA that means they were profitable.

              I am going short. That might soon be illegal though, better hurry.

          3. Fannie Mae was incredibly profitable … until it wasn’t.

    3. Most probable outcome seems that by 2016 the individual market will look like NY’s individual market- tiny, consisting only of sick folks, with very high premiums. The number of uninsured will be modestly lower than in 2013 due to medicaid expansion and maybe a few pick-ups in the employer side, but there will be a large category of middle-class people above the poverty line without employer provided insurance that will go uninsured and pay the tax.

  14. “I’m sorry you were stupid enough to believe me.”

  15. I am not sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation fucked based on assurances lies they got from me.

  16. It is the Otter apology – “You fucked up, you trusted us!”

    1. It’s the rattlesnake’s apology: “You knew what I was.”

    2. It is the nonapology. ‘Let me be perfectly clear. If you like your policy [you can make a facsimile of it and even frame it and put it on the wall next to your diploma. And let it be a reminder of how crass profit oriented free markets will gouge you for a subpar policy that cheats you out of such necessities as counseling for separation anxiety from your dog], you can keep it.’

      1. So he was talking about the paper contract!

        We all owe him an apology for not understanding.

      2. But I love my dog.

        Fucking Republicans.

        Republican’s War on Dogs.

  17. The thing is they are not losing their insurance because of Barry’s assurance. They are losing it because of his “signature achievement.”

    1. “signature achievement aggrievement”

      FIFY

  18. And now he’s on the trail of a $10/hr minimum wage.

    That’ll help.

    Yup.

    Definitely.

    “I’m an EXCELLENT President.”

    1. Minimum wage doesn’t cause unemployment among the young and unskilled! It’s greed! Capitalist greed! Market failure!

    2. I read somewhere where Holder said that they were still open to indicting George Zimmerman.

      Yeah, they are getting that desperate.

      1. HAHAHAHA

    3. And he’s promise everyone that if they like their job, they can keep their job, too.

      I continue to be astonished at just how truly stupid progressives are.

      I know Republicans are stupid, but at least they don’t have the hubris of believing they can run the economy.

      1. Progressives value equality over anything else. Because of this they see profit as immoral, and they view rich people as thieves (rich people with the proper political opinions can be forgiven though).
        Progressives prefer things to be run by the government because government doesn’t skim off profits and give them to the rich.
        They don’t care about efficiency or quality. Those things are secondary to equality and keeping profits out of the hands of the rich.

        As far as minimum wage goes, they feel that by raising it they’re just taking profits from the rich and giving them to the workers.

        There really is an inverse relationship between one’s knowledge of economic principles and the likelihood of them being a progressive.

        1. They have an extremely naive view of the government as some sort of benevolent public entity in which “the people” get the benefit of any income the government handles. What it really is, is more like a network of power brokers using force to redirect resources to favored clients.

    4. $10 an hour plus open borders and O’care !

      What could possibly go wrong ?

  19. “Let me be clear: I will use the passive voice in order to deflect blame from myself.”

    1. The passive voice was used. Blame was sidestepped. The policies were still canceled, though.

    2. Now imagine him saying that with lots of vocal fry and a rising intonation (question mark) on the end.

      Can you think of anything more annoying?

    3. Needs more “there are those who say”.

  20. Otto: [practicing his apology] Oh, I’m so very, very, very ssssssssssss… FUCK YOU!

  21. I know everyone needs to vent and all, but can we please start seeing these stories accompanied by tidbits from people who have found a way out or around this disaster. Like how about an article on some of the cost sharing programs that offer affordable rates and very good reimbursement of expenses or more stories about doctors who are switching to consierge or other self-pay models. Just saying a lot of people are looking for a way out, and better to give them ideas then let them join the progressive single-payer choir.

    1. “Just saying a lot of people are looking for a way out, and better to give them ideas then let them join the progressive single-payer choir.”

      I appreciate what you’re saying, but I think the fact that Obama and the Democrats don’t really know what they’re doing–or don’t really care about the people they’re hurting–is an important part of the argument against single-payer.

      1. This is a dangerous assumption – people on the left I have talked to who understand that the current plan is unworkable really do blame Republican opposition to single-payer for making the ACA “necessary” and are just waiting for its failures to make right-wingers see that single-payer is the only way.

        No matter how bad it gets, they will not blame Obama.

        1. But they are not the majority. They have been wanting single payer for 70 years and haven’t ever gotten it. They are basically betting that the biggest government fuck up maybe ever is going to make people demand that the same government now run everything.

          Maybe. You never know. But it is hardly a sure bet. And hard to see how the most liberal President in history fucking up this badly is going to turn out to be the greatest thing that ever happened to the Left. Possible but at least very counter intuitive.

          1. They are basically betting that the biggest government fuck up maybe ever is going to make people demand that the same government now run everything.

            I’d say that’s a sure bet.

            This game is called “You lose, I win.”

            And yeah, we’re the losers.

            1. Again, if that was such a sure bet, we would have gotten single payer in 09 or in 93 or 65. Didn’t work out that way.

              You people need to realize that these people are morons. They live in a fantasy land. They ruthless and evil but still morons. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and pretending they are evil geniuses.

              1. You people need to realize that these people are morons. They live in a fantasy land.

                Yes. But 49% of the country is “these people” now.

                1. No they are not anon. That 49% is not all hard core Progs pining for single payer. That is what you guys don’t get or just refuse to admit.

                  1. I know quite a few Democrats (Texas Democrats and Kentucky Democrats, not looney leftists). They really do want the same sort of Canadian-style single-payer type system that the hardcore Progs want.

              2. single-payer wasn’t an option then because people liked their current insurance plans and wanted to keep them. Once the private insurance market has imploded (i.e., no more than three years from now) and people don’t have any insurance plans any more, look for Obama (or President Hillary) to say, “Gosh, I’m sorry you got fucked by those greedy insurance companies, who preferred to go out of business than do the right thing, but I’ve got this great idea for something to take its place.”

            2. “I pretend to be their friend, and then I shoot you.”

              1. I’m with John on this. I don’t think this clusterfuck is going to convince anyone that we need single payer. At least not anyone who didn’t already think that anyway.

                1. The problem is that, after the insurance industry decides that it wants no part of insuring health care and exits the business, who is left to provide health care insurance?

                  A very large fraction of Americans, probably a majority, have been indoctrinated to believe that health care is a right, that no American should ever be deprived of health care for lack of financial resources. They will clamor for government to secure this “right” in the face of what will be called a huge “market failure”.

                  1. Cato,

                    Demand creates supply. So I doubt that will happen. Beyond that, because health costs are so unpredictable at the individual level, you have to have functioning insurance to have a market.

                    And you could get the insurance companies to come back by getting rid of the idiotic laws that made them leave. Do that and there will be a buck to me made. And that will get people back in the market.

                  2. “Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.”
                    ? Douglas Adams

                  3. No I think this just might cause a few people to questions the belief that health care is a right.

        2. This isn’t just going to depend on the left.

          It’s about swing voters, too.

          As ObamaCare continues to hurt swing voters, swing voters will continue to become more wary of progressives and their bright ideas.

          They were sold a bill of goods. The swing voters were gung-ho on Iraq, at one time, too.

          http://usatoday30.usatoday.com…..iraq_x.htm

          Turns out Iraq wasn’t really what they thought it was about at first. People can be sold ideas easily–it’s the reality they don’t like. The idea of America striking back at the people who attacked us with anthrax was a great idea!

          The reality of Iraq was something else entirely. …especially when they couldn’t find the WMD after all. …and now how do the swing voters feel about Bush and the Iraq War?

          This ObamaCare thing is like that. Everybody likes the idea of poor people with preexisting conditions not having any trouble anymore–especially when voters think it isn’t going to impact them negatively.

          That’s turning out not to be true. There are still people on the right who think Iraq was a big success, and there will still be people on the left who think ObamaCare was a monumental achievement.

          Swing voters just care about results after the fact. We just had economics to show them before. Now it’s happening for reals, and the swingers don’t like it. Different ballgame.

        3. Partisans must blame the other side. If they accept responsibility they have to accept that they could be wrong. Partisans are never wrong. Therefore, it must be the other team that cause the fuck up.

  22. “I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me.”

    I agree with what Suderman wrote, but this “apology” is still more than I ever expected to see coming from this president.

    Isn’t he admitting that some people supported ObamaCare because of his false assurances?

    Isn’t he admitting that people are losing their coverage because of ObamaCare?

    No, he’s not sorry about the ultimate consequences of ObamaCare–not yet, anyway. But it seems to me that he is admitting that those people are losing their coverage because of ObamaCare–even if he isn’t sorry about it.

    Honestly, I expected that the apology for people relying on his false assurances would be the last apology we’d see rather than the first. He’s basically admitting that he shouldn’t always be followed. Why would a progressive say something like that?

    Using democracy to force people to make sacrifices for the greater good is what being a progressive is all about. If you admit to voters that you don’t always know what the greater good is, then using democracy to force people to make sacrifices for it is going to be a really hard sell over the next three years!

    1. It’s a slight admission that the law might have negative effects on some people.

      I’m hoping he gets one step further and admits that some people aren’t just paying more for “better plans”, but that some people are paying a lot more for less, because that is the nature of the laws central objectives.

      I’m waiting for him to either throw those people under the bus (they’re just the 3% “losers”), or else admit that it might just be slightly wrong to make them pay so much.

      1. “I’m waiting for him to either throw those people under the bus (they’re just the 3% “losers”), or else admit that it might just be slightly wrong to make them pay so much.”

        I think that admission is probably too much to hope for.

        But as far as throwing people under the bus, we were already seeing them starting to demonize people who can’t afford don’t buy health insurance, and I’d expect to see a lot more of that going forward.

        1. How is that going to work if it includes people who DID buy health insurance – until their premiums were doubled to make them pay for other people’s health care?

          1. They’ll denounce those people as selfish–in addition to being irresponsible. It’s just like driving a car around without insurance, Hazel! How could you be so irresponsible?

            And the exchanges will be up and running eventually. You say you can’t afford it, but ObamaCare is subsidizing the poor on the exchanges–so how can you say you can’t afford it?

            You’re just being selfish and irresponsible.

            And if you just lost your job, and you decided to try to make your house payment, or something, instead of buying health insurance?

            Then I guess you’re a racist or something. We all have to make sacrifices. It’s for the common good.

            1. Yes, I’m sure telling people they are selfish for trying to make the house payment they used to be able to make before Obama jacked up their health insurance premiums will be a winner.

              It’s a little bit delicious that this is going to hurt progtards in New York and San Francisco the hardest.

              What, you make $80,000/year? and you live in San Francisco? You must be rolling in dough! Gimme some of that!

              1. I call them feel good liberals Hazel. A lot of people in this country vote Dem and spout the liberal line because they feel like it makes them look smart and tolerant and it doesn’t cost them anything. Those people are about to have to pay for their beliefs. I don’t think they are going to like it very much.

              2. Hazel, have you been keeping up with Ezra Klein? He’s gotten around to declaring that yes, there are going to be losers in this situation — but we need losers to create winners. Those losers were actually over-winning in the past, and now things are all justified up.

        2. “But as far as throwing people under the bus, we were already seeing them starting to demonize people kulaks and wreckers who can’t afford don’t buy health insurance, and I’d expect to see a lot more of that going forward.”

          FTFY.

    2. He’s obviously getting push back from his fellows who are up for reelection in 2014. Because there is much more pain to come for voters, there will be more push back and more false apologies.

  23. I was going to say this, but then we get Joltin’ Joe Biden as President.

    He don’t scare me.

    How could it possibly be worse?

    1. If nothing else, State Dinners will be far more entertaining.

  24. Question, how bad must the internal polls for the various Democrats in Congress be for the biggest narcissist in America to issue even this qualified apology? It must be a hundred times worse than even we know.

    1. You misunderstand; he just didn’t explain it well enough. This isn’t an apology for Obamacare, he’s just feeling bad that he didn’t explain it well enough to you.

      1. Sure. But for him to even admit that, had to really hurt.

    2. I think those Senate Ds went in their the other day are basically begged him to do something. and he came back with this.

  25. To all the voters I’ve fooled once more.

    To all the voters I’ve fooled once more,
    When lobbyists traveled in and out my door
    I’m glad they chose so wrong
    I dedicate this song
    To all the voters I’ve fooled once more.

    To all the polls I once topped
    And may I say until now I’ve never flopped
    For helping me to grow
    I owe a lot I know
    To all the voters I’ve fooled once more.

    The winds of change are always blowing
    And every time I try to stay
    The winds of change, like my presidency, continue blowing
    And they just carry me away

    To all the voters I’ve fooled once more….

  26. All is forgiven. He said he’s sorry. Forward.

  27. “cough, cough… BLOWJOB!… cough cough.”

  28. “In politics, if you have to eat shit, don’t nibble.”

  29. The real story here is that Obamacare is doing exactly everything its critics said it would do, and absolutely nothing of what its proponents said it would do.

    And there are still fucking morons that think Obamacare is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    1. It is because they are savages who think words are more important than reality. I mean the bill says “affordable” doesn’t it? So how could it not be making things better?

      That is how they really think.

    2. And what they will do is blame each other. Some of them will admit it is a failure thinking they can get single payer. A few others will admit it is a failure out of survival instinct. The rest of them will stick with it. All three groups will view the other side as traitors to the cause.

      This is going to tear the Dems apart.

      1. Know who else rose to power at a time the country thought it was “tearing itself apart?”

        1. Not the country the Dems.

        2. The GOP?

        3. The antichrist?

          1. putting the AC in ACA?

  30. No matter how bad it gets, they will not blame Obama.

    Personality cultists. They would rather blame themselves than examine their religious beliefs.

  31. My mind is blown. I recall posters joking about how Liberals would blame the Republicans when the ACA failed, and I laughed at the notion. Alas… They are. Every time I read an article on ACA troubles there are countless comments regarding Republican sabotage, and Obama’s unnecessary compromises. This can’t be real life.

    1. Liberals will for sure. But fortunately a majority of the country is not liberal.

      1. Reading Gawker comments makes me so depressed. That people are so out of touch with reality, and that there is nothing that you can do to right their minds, is baffling.

        1. Thank God. most people on either side are not Gawker commenters. Then we really would be doomed.

      2. Hope so, but I think you’re wrong. I think this’ll be the new normal in a few years.

      3. No, but the majority of the media is liberal, and the majority of people get their opinions from that very same liberal media.

        1. Sure. But media can only lie about things people don’t have direct experience with and thus don’t know any better.

          1. Oh but they’re not lying! Those plans that were canceled were rip-offs! They didn’t cover even the most basic care! Now everyone has great coverage, and it’s all because of Obama! All hail Dear Leader!

            1. you could claim that about that other guy in Peoria on the Drudge Report who lost his plan, but if it’s your plan, your kid’s plan, your neighbor’s plan, your brother-in-law’s plan, your florist’s plan, your veterinarian’s plan, and a million people marching on Washington on September 12, 2014’s plan, your claim gets drowned out.

        2. Think of it this way, does the media lie and tell us Tampa Bay is a good team?

          1. If it did I wouldn’t notice since I pay absolutely no attention to sports.

            1. You pay attention to your health insurance, so lying about that is like telling Bucs fans their team is good.

        3. At the moment I suspect many people who have had perfectly decent health plans canceled might be questioning their commitment to MSNBC and Jon Stewart and the whole liberal media complex.

  32. I am sorry so many people are new to politics.

    Obama made a politically expedient promise. That’s what politicians do sometimes. Be angry with him for that.

    He made the promise at the same time other people were making politically expedient statements in an effort to stop the law. Be angry at those politicians as well otherwise you look like someone who takes principled stands when they suit their political agenda just like Obama and his opponents. That just makes it political theater instead of a stand on principles.

    I really wish that instead of this political theater people would step up and present REAL alternatives to the Affordable Care Act or at least changes to the existing plan. We need health care reform. If the Affordable Care Act isn’t it, the give us something you think is. Stop posturing and start producing.

    1. Do we have a new concern troll?

        1. And the stupidity is pretty consistent.

      1. What purpose does your post serve? If I am a concern troll, it is best to ignore me. If you don’t agree with my views, challenge them with logic not by trying to attack my credibility with loose accusations and attempts to stir emotions against me.

        1. If you actually want serious debate, maybe you shouldn’t use “I am sorry so many people are new to politics.” as your opener.

          It makes you sound like a condescending jack ass.

          1. His sorry sounds a lot like Obama’s sorry.

            Is that you Obama ?

    2. Private savings accounts, and insurance for only catastrophic events.

      1. Yeah, Private Savings accounts should be allowed under the ACA. I don’t know if it is though.

        I also think that catastrophic care only policies would be one way to keep prices down and attract younger participants.

        All of this could happen with minor modifications under the ACA if they don’t exist already.

        1. Or we could abolish the ACA altogether. Much less wasted money on middle men, and less bureaucratic shit.

          And by minor, you must mean massive. The ACA can’t function unless you have everyone buying in. Medical savings accounts are a no-no.

          1. I found this on Huffington Post about the ACA.

            In order to be called this, a HDHP must be qualified by the IRS, which can happen if the plan has a minimum annual family deductible of $2,500 or $1,250 for an individual. There are also restrictions on the maximum out-of-pocket, at $12,500 for a family and $6,250 for an individual. These plans are compatible with Health Savings Accounts (HSA’s) and in fact, are requirements for participation in an HSA.

            So I guess saving accounts are a plan in the exchange. My biggest question is does the savings account roll over? If it does I don’t understand that. You should be able to bankroll your own healthcare and once you have enough to keep you covered all you should have to pay is what you need to top it off and the low premium for catastrophic care.

            1. Why would I want the government involved in my private savings account? Why would they be involved my my high-deductible plan? They would only drive costs up for both.

            2. Also:
              “Recent federal policy has codified some of the liberal distaste for HSAs and made them less desirable for consumers. Obamacare, for starters, bans the use of HSA funds for over-the-counter medications without a prescription — an increasingly restrictive limit given the Food and Drug Administration’s push to make common prescription drugs for high cholesterol, allergies and other conditions available over-the-counter.
              Obamacare also doubled, to 20 percent, the taxes due on money withdrawn from an HSA and used for nonmedical purposes. These taxes exceed the early withdrawal penalties for tax-protected retirement plans. The health-care-reform law, moreover, drastically decreases the maximum allowable deductible in HSA-linked plans offered by small employers. Although the intention was to reduce out-of-pocket payments, this change will increase monthly premiums and make coverage less affordable.
              Finally, the law places HSAs in jeopardy by giving federal regulators the authority to define the “essential benefits” that all plans must provide. This could prevent insurers and employers from offering certain catastrophic plans.”

            3. We have a high-deductible plan and an HSA to cover the deductible.

              Before the ACA, yes, the plan “rolled over” – unlike a FSA, which is basically a “use it or lose it” account. I have no idea if that will continue to be true. You see, high-deductible, low premium “catastrophic” plans are, by law, now only available to those under the age of 30 or those the government deem of “financial hardship. ”

              Nice, huh? Those of us in our 50s with no health problems, on no medications, must have plans that cover things we’ll never need – like maternity benefits – to conform to the new laws.

              Isn’t that nifty?

        2. Hilarious. The guy asking the we step up and propose alternatives, doesn’t actually know what is in the ACA.

          You don’t even know what where supposed to propose an alternative TO.

          (BTW, if you had been paying attention on these boards, you should know that we DO have MANY alternatives.)

        3. ReasonableS|11.8.13 @ 1:22PM|#
          “Yeah, Private Savings accounts should be allowed under the ACA. I don’t know if it is though.”

          Uh, it’s usual to qualify someone arguing where that person is unfamiliar with the details of the issue to call that person a ‘stupid shit’.
          You qualify.

    3. 80% of the people liked their health care before the ACA. And if you take out violent and accidental death, which has nothing to do with health care, the US has the world’s longest life span, go look it up.

      So, I am not sure we needed reform quite like you think. Beyond that, if there is one lesson of the ACA it is that big “reforms” are generally retarded ideas that will do more harm than good.

      So, for now, lest undo the harm of this big idea. Then when we have done that, we can think about doing some small more modest things to make things better.

      And lastly, Obama is not wrong for lying. He is wrong because he created a healthcare plan that is doing all of this harm. He should apologizing for the harm not for lying. This is not about lying.

      Now go post talking points somewhere else. The adults are talking.

      1. I am an adult and these are talking points. These are thoughts I have that I want feedback from reasonable people. Your rudeness suggest you are not reasonable.

        What harm has been done so far?

        80 percent of Americans are covered through their employers, medicare, medicaid and veteran’s benefits. I would imagine that a lot of them are part of you 80% of people who liked their heathcare before ACA. Those people are still covered. I suspect you conflated those who had individual plans that are being canceled with those who were happy before the ACA.

        1. People who had insurance were generally happy with it. Many people who didn’t have insurance didn’t have insurance because they didn’t want insurance for whatever reason.

          The idea that everyone who didn’t have insurance wanted it and everyone who did was unhappy with it are the two lies this entire thing is based on and the biggest reason why it is such a disaster.

          It forces people to buy insurance they don’t want with money they would rather spend elsewhere and it unilaterally changes millions of people’s insurance policies to include things they don’t want to buy.

          1. I am not too happy with the individual mandate. I’d rather we were taxed to provide healthcare to low income healthcare consumers than be forced to pay private companies money they profit from.

            I am off topic though, this isn’t about Health Care reform, but about the reaction to Obama’s apology.

            I see it as politically expedient as the original promise. It really doesn’t affect how I feel about him.

            The bungled website deployment makes me question his leadership and his subordinates’ ability to administer the program.
            I am still for health care reform, but the current implementation needs some major tweaking which requires Republicans and Democrats to quit playing politics and improve their first attempt at reform.

            As for me, I get my insurance from my employer and I am relatively satisfied with it though I wish we had a savings account option I could look into.

            1. I’d rather we were taxed to provide healthcare to low income healthcare consumers than be forced to pay private companies money they profit from.

              Why should a company not profit from providing a service? Why would anyone in their right mind provide a service for free. You don’t work for free–you said that you get your healthcare from your employer. That’s the same as profiting from your work. Why is it ok for you and not for owners of companies?

            2. I think the ACA should be scrapped entirely, but if they were going to opt for a semi-workable fix:

              Reduce the mandatory minimum to just catastrophic coverage.
              Makes it something like this:
              Bronze Plan:
              1) Hospital
              2) Ambulatory
              3) Emergency
              4) Laboratory Services

              Let the insurance company set any deductible, but require people to prove they have enough assets to pay the deductible.

              Silver Plan:
              1) Hospital
              2) Ambulatory
              3) Emergency
              4) Laboratory Services
              5) Prescription Drugs
              6) Rehabilitative Services
              7) Preventive Services

              Gold Plan:
              Everything on the current list including mental health and substance abuse, and pediatric dental care

              Platinum:
              All that and a low deductible.

              Add a tax deduction for individuals purchasing insurance in the individual market.

              Increase the range for community rating from 3-1 to 5-1.

        2. ReasonableS:

          80 percent of Americans are covered through their employers, medicare, medicaid and veteran’s benefits. I would imagine that a lot of them are part of you 80% of people who liked their heathcare before ACA. Those people are still covered. I suspect you conflated those who had individual plans that are being canceled with those who were happy before the ACA.

          Yeah, and these people would still be covered without ACA. So, let’s look at the people effected by ACA. They were promised lower premiums, they were promised they could keep their insurance. They were promised they could keep their doctor. We were all promised it would lower the deficit.

          So far, more people have lost coverage than have gained it. Prices are going higher, now lower. People are losing their doctors. It’s going to add to the deficit.

          Is the law still great when it produces the opposite effect that it’s supposed to have? If so, why? Because, when you still support it when it has opposite effects, you sound like “someone who takes principled stands when they suit their political agenda.”

          How are we supposed to have any faith in the grand social planners, when they can’t even push the metrics they’re trying to control in the right direction? It’s epic failure.

    4. ReasonableS:

      Obama made a politically expedient promise. That’s what politicians do sometimes. Be angry with him for that.

      Yeah, and when private individuals or corporate CEOs make grand, bold faced lies to deceive the public and get their way, they usually find themselves in court rooms and congressional hearings. They usually don’t get to just say “sorry, now, let’s pretend like that never happened and go forward.” If you have lower standards for politicians than you do for private individuals, then I assume that politicians shouldn’t be given more responsibility and power over others. After all, lower standards should only apply to lower priorities. So, for example, healthcare should be too important to leave in the hands of people who can’t be expected to take responsibility or have any consequences for the crap they pull.

      He made the promise at the same time other people were making politically expedient statements in an effort to stop the law. Be angry at those politicians as well otherwise you look like someone who takes principled stands when they suit their political agenda just like Obama and his opponents. That just makes it political theater instead of a stand on principles.

      So far, it looks like the opponents to healthcare made expedient statements against the law that happened to be completely factual and correct. We’re not biased towards an agenda. We’re biased towards reality.

      (cont’d)

      1. ReasonableS:

        I really wish that instead of this political theater people would step up and present REAL alternatives to the Affordable Care Act or at least changes to the existing plan. We need health care reform. If the Affordable Care Act isn’t it, the give us something you think is. Stop posturing and start producing.

        The healthcare system of Singapore is universal, market based, produces better outcomes than western Europe, at about half the price per capita. What excuse do democrats have for not embracing this one, since it’s superior to the western European models they hold up every day? I assume that Singapore’s system is too market based, and doesn’t have enough absolutely free for the consumer, pure socialist/communist price control supply regulation crap in it. And better health outcomes be damned, if it means we can’t top-down regulate the hell out of healthcare.

        If democrats are so awesome, why do they need republicans to produce a good alternative before they drop crappy alternatives like Obamacare? It’s not republican’s fault that democrats believe their own bullshit.

        1. I don’t care too much about Obama or his critics. They are essentially just employees. I wasn’t fooled by Obama when he made the promise and I am not fooled by his apology. I am more interested in the results and right now I am not happy, but I am willing to wait until March to make a final evaluation.

          I’ll check out your link about Singapore. I appreciate being pointed toward information that will inform me more.

          1. OK. Read.

    5. In addition to Konima’s fine suggestion:

      Allow purchase of plans across state lines. It would be an actual legit use of the Interstate Commerce Clause!

      Eliminate tax gradient between having an employer buy your insurance vs buying it for yourself. I’d prefer to do that by making it tax deductable for individuals, but even getting rid of the employer deduction would, in the long run, lead to a more efficient market outcome.

      We’ve been suggesting these things on here for years.

    6. I am sorry so many people are new to politics

      Go jump in front of a speeding truck, you parasite. And take your family with you, because your genetic line shouldn’t be infecting the rest of humanity anymore.

      1. While not a direct death threat, it is a wish for my demise and hopefully frowned upon my the more reasonable posters.

        Try to intimidating me or expressing dissatisfaction with my views by embarrassing me with superior logic or greater knowledge. I am not here for a fight, I am here for a discussion. Ignore me if you don’t want to be civil.

        Having said that I am ignoring the rest of you who value aggression over reason.

        1. Try to intimidating me or expressing dissatisfaction with my views by embarrassing me with superior logic or greater knowledge. I am not here for a fight, I am here for a discussion. Ignore me if you don’t want to be civil.

          Fuck off, you passive-voiced shithead. Any argument you can provide hasn’t already been combed over ad nauseum on this site for years. If you haven’t been persuaded by now, odds are you never will until President Cornball’s policies affect you personally. Enlightenment by attrition isn’t exactly how “reasonable” people think.

    7. I am sorry so many people are new to politics.

      Are saying that it’s somehow the voter’s fault for expecting a president to tell the truth?

      What a bonehead!

    8. 1. End the tax advantage given to employer-based coverage. (either by adding a deduction for individuals, or removing the deduction for employers)

      2. Bar insurers from dropping people after they get sick, and hold them liable for a full course of treatment.

      3. Term health insurance. You buy in when you are young and if you stay current your whole life, your premiums stay low.

      1. Oh and yes, high deductible plans, etc. But I think that will happen anyway if we get rid of employer-based care.

      2. 1) Not “or” “and.” Insurance should not be tied in any way to employment.

        2) Yes as well as guaranteed issue as long as your existing policy doesn’t lapse for more than a short amount of time, say 3-6months.

        3) Complements the guaranteed issue above. I like it.

        4) Already happening.

  33. Can he be sued directly for fraud?

  34. Since I have to listen to NPR at work all day, when I come home for lunch I put on Rush. He just made a good point. If Obama really cared about people losing their plans, then he could just issue one of his executive orders helping these people out.

    1. Exactly. Or do something. Fine, you are sorry. Now what are you going to do to fix it? If you the answer is nothing, don’t waste my time apologizing because you clearly don’t care.

  35. This debacle is just another case study on why democracy is a lie. The whole premise is that an informed electorate chooses wise leaders based on their policy positions, and supports or rejects political leaders who fail to deliver, thus incentivizing good behavior and high performance from political leaders.

    OK, so when the president lies about his signature policy in order to push it through, as well as to get reelected, and has absolutely no consequence to himself for it, isn’t that a huge counter-example to the democracy fairy tale?

    So, Obama is sorry that he had to lie to everyone to get his way, and to get reelected. He would have preferred not to, but sometimes, you just have to deceive and fuck people over to get your way. And when Obama has a choice between getting his way and fucking you over, you’re getting fucked over every time. Because he’s the president, and you’re not. But, democrats care deeply about equality.

    Is the law still valid because it was based on lies? Apparently. Is he still the president, even though he deceived everyone? Yes. And the public will just do it again with another set of politicians next time.

    Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

  36. I really wish that instead of this political theater people would step up and present REAL alternatives to the Affordable Care Act or at least changes to the existing plan. We need health care reform. If the Affordable Care Act isn’t it, the give us something you think is. Stop posturing and start producing.

    I really wish annoying concern trolls would stop just wishing away the multitude of alternative solutions they don’t agree with.

  37. I really wish that instead of this political theater people would step up and present REAL alternatives to the Affordable Care Act

    OK.

    (1) Repeal the ACA. All of it. Every syllable.

    (2) Pass the Health Insurance Liberation Act, which uses the Commerce Clause to abolish state restrictions on the interstate sale of health insurance. State-level benefits mandates, etc. wouldn’t apply to policies that are offered across state lines, but could still apply to purely intra-state policies.

    The national/interstate health insurance market would be regulated by the feds. Regulation would consist of anti-fraud rules.

    There. Real alternative offered. Hundreds of billions of dollars saved. And I can genuinely say “If you like your current plan, this proposal won’t take it away from you. Ever.”

    1. (3) Allow *all* medical care insurance premiums to be pre-tax or make none of them so.

  38. I am not here for a fight, I am here for a discussion. Ignore me if you don’t want to be civil.

    The concern troll’s lonely refrain: “I’m just asking questions!”

  39. He’s sorry he got caught, that’s all. He’s sorry his rhetoric isn’t making it all go away. He’s sorry the balloon has finally gone up, and people see what a phony he really is.

  40. My last pay check was 9500 dolr working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is what I do———- http://www.jobs53.com

  41. Pathological liars are rarely repentant for it.

  42. So many people living their life, paying their way, doing the right thing and BAM Barack Obama and his merry band of progressives want to fundamentally transform America. Couldn’t Soros have just bought him an island somewhere to practice on?

    1. “Couldn’t Soros have just bought him an island somewhere to practice on?”

      Cuba!
      How badly could he screw that up?

  43. my co-worker’s sister-in-law makes hourly on the laptop. She has been out of work for 5 months but last month her payment was just working on the laptop for a few hours. pop over to this web-site…….. http://www.works23.com

  44. my co-worker’s sister-in-law makes hourly on the laptop. She has been out of work for 5 months but last month her payment was just working on the laptop for a few hours. pop over to this web-site…….. http://www.works23.com

  45. Obama should apologize for his existence.

  46. “If there’s news here, it’s not that he apologized. It’s that he does not appear to be sorry that he lied.”
    It’s not just that he lied, it’s far worse, that ALL he’s done since the beginning of his 2008 is LIE. He doesn’t just TELL lies, he IS a lie, from his name and birthplace (Kenya), etc. And those who dismiss the irrefutable facts of so-called “birthers” join him in the lie; no one can make a valid case for him being legally elected President and never will be able to, his being the vile party of lawless pseudo-liberal fascism, most of whom would be behind bars or executed for high treason in a civilized country under the rule of law, unlike here, where there’s no danger of that .

  47. Hahaha! I’m sorry your nose hurt after I punched you in the face!
    Dear Barry! You may cancel my health insurance, but you cannot cancel me. I am committed to do everything in my limited power as a citizen to cause a political death to all who support you whose opponents I can fund or vote against. I am only one of millions and millions.

  48. I think he miscalculated. He fought that there would be a seamless process by which people would go from their existing policies to their newer, better, cheaper ones. He didn’t realize that (1) the website wouldn’t work, so that the cancellations come before finding out about the new policies; and (2) that the new policies would generally cost more with much higher deductibles. This would have required doing a lot of arithmetic, which a competent manager would have had someone calculate for him. It looks like no one on his team did this. He is surrounded by frightened sycophants who are herded about by the Loyalty Police (Michelle and Valerie).He has no one on staff who can say “No, you are completely wrong.”

  49. Im making over $30h a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life. This is what I do,…. http://WWW.Max57.COM

  50. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do……
    http://www.Rush64.com

  51. my co-worker’s half-sister makes $81 hourly on the computer. She has been fired for 5 months but last month her pay was $20214 just working on the computer for a few hours. hop over to this website…..
    http://WWW.JOBS84.COM

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.