Nick Gillespie at Daily Beast: Has Sarah Palin Turned Libertarian?

Over at The Daily Beast, I've got a new piece up about Sarah Palin's re-emergence on Fox News and in Republican Party politics.

Here's a snippet:

Over the past weekend, Palin was one of the main speakers at the 'Road to Majority" meeting of The Faith and Freedom Coalition, a group of religious Republicans headed up by Ralph Reed, the former head of the Christian Coalition. During her remarks (watch the full video at C-SPAN), she took partisan shots at President Barack Obama and his supporters in "their itty-bitty purple Volts" but she also sounded specifically libertarian notes, disdaining yet more intervention in the Middle East, giving absolution to Edward Snowden for leaking details of surveillance programs, and casting a pox on both Democrats and Republicans. "The problem," she explained, "is government grown so big that it intrudes into every aspect of our lives….The scandals infecting [the government] are a symptom of a bigger disease. And it doesn't matter if it's a Republican or a Democrat sitting atop of a bloated boot on your neck. With bloated government, everyone gets infected and no party is immune."

Palin got her biggest applause when she finished that thought by declaring, "That's why, I tell you, I'm listening to those independents, those libertarians, who are saying, 'it is both sides of the aisle, the good ol' boys in the party on both sides of the aisle, they perpetuate the problem.'"…

Yet there's every reason to believe that Palin's new-found libertarianism is deeply misinformed, cynically superficial, or some mix of both.

Find out why over at The Beast.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Uh-oh.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

John will be insufferable.

[John]

I know. If I could only hate the whit trash like I am supposed to. God damn it that woman is one of the other.

[Jackojj]

"newfound libertarianism"?
------

Sarah Palin has always been a Libertarian leaning Conservative.

"The Libertarian Case for Palin." By David Harsanyi.

http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....palin.html
------------

Nick Gillespie also wrote a inaccurate article about Sarah Palin's record of accomplishment.

In the following article (based on facts!) you read about her executive experience.

'Who Is the Real Sarah Palin?'

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-G.....arah-palin

[robc]

Turned?

She is about as libertarian as she has always been, with the exception of a 3 month period in 2008.

And the answer is still No. She has some slight libertarian tendencies. More so than your average republican, but nothing special.

[John]

But she is icky. Even when she says the right things she must be condemned. In fact she has to be condemned even more when she is right. How dare someone of her ilk even by implication try to associate herself with someone like the Jacket. I mean the nerve of that woman.

[DJF]

But, but, but, she did not attend the right schools, she did not work for the right foundations, she did not have the right friends, she did not quote the right books. And she's from the ultimate flyover country, Alaska. And finally she, whether you agree or disagree might actually has opinions that she believes in instead of following whatever drivel that the Washington crowd is pushing

And no I don't think she is a libertarian, since I think she does not follow theories but she says what she thinks is right, for good or bad.

[John]

I don't think she is a Libertarian either. But just who in national politics is? Maybe Ron Paul. So for the life of me I can't quite understand why her not being a "libertarian" means she is worthy of scorn even when she is right.

[DWC]

Lets get this straight - all libertarian means is opposing aggression and coercion. Anyone who is not a libertarian supports and advocates aggression and coercion. Thus I can never support or even tolerate any political type who is not libertarian.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

You're almost there, but not quite. In fact, you can't support anyone but yourself because other libertarians might not be the right kind of libertarian.

The certainty and smugness of a True Libertarian is all a part of the process; let it envelop you.

[entropy]

And finally she, whether you agree or disagree might actually has opinions that she believes in instead of following whatever drivel that the Washington crowd is pushing

Ding.

Sarah Palin is the one of the first 40 names in the phone book candidate.

You likely to get some goofy shit but on balance it's lightyears better than the alternatives.

[sam the man]

It's like that Buckley quote that everyone ruins.

[Mr. Soul]

can we stop calling it "Fly Over Country"? It's "Drone Over Country".

[Archduke Pantsfan]

someone has a little crush!

[GILMORE]

""John| 6.18.13 @ 2:55PM |#

But she is icky. Even when she says the right things she must be condemned.""

What about when she said all the blindingly-stupid horseshit though?

http://firedoglake.com/2010/02.....tea-party/

""President Barack Obama won't be re-elected in 2012 unless he can "toughen up" on national security, according to Sarah Palin. The former Governor of Alaska believes that declaring war on Iran could help the president get re-elected.

"Say he decided to declare war on Iran or decided really to come out and do whatever he could to support Israel, which I would like him to do," Palin told Fox News' Chris Wallace Sunday. "That changes the dynamics in what we can assume is going to happen between now and three years."

The fact is she's not 'libertarian' in any way = she's an opportunist looking for a parade to get in front of. aka = 'a politician'

[John]

So she is a national security hawk. Yeah Gilmore. You got her there. I mean a national security hawk in the Republican Party. I am fucking shocked. She is so far out of the Republican mainstream. I mean wanting to be tough on Iran.

Thanks a lot for proving my point that no one on here has a rational reason for hating Palin beyond being a culture warrior.

[Irish]

Are you fucking kidding me, John? People on here constantly criticize war hawks who aren't named Sarah Palin. Therefore, criticizing Sarah Palin for being a war hawk is a legitimate criticism and has nothing to do with culture war.

Even when people give you substantive issues they don't like, you somehow claim that it's all about the culture war.

[GILMORE]

""John| 6.18.13 @ 3:45PM |#

So she is a national security hawk""

Uh, no = she thought 'declaring a war' would be a politically helpful move..

her 'national security' bona fides don't exist, outside of gratuitously 'loving and supporting the troops' whenever a camera is pointed at her. The woman couldn't keep straight who we were 'at war' with half the time.

you can return to playing with your culture-war Barbie-doll now

[John]

Gilmore,

Projection is your name. She is just another national security Republican. So what? That doesn't mean she is anything other than a Republican. But somehow people like you think she is worse.

It is all about the culture war for you. And yeah, I am going to continue to call you out on it until you get over it.

[Hopfiend]

But dude, she looks like Tina Fey

[SIV]

More libertarian than Jeff Flake or Butch Otter but certainly not in Ron Paul territory.

[entropy]

So, if she were in the senate, she wouldn't be #1, but she would probably be about #9.

[SIV]

I'd guess #5 or higher based on here career pre- and post- her stint as McCain's running mate

[robc]

Sounds about right.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

How do you get her ahead of Flake?

[Brandon]

You go full TEAM RED retard.

[SIV]

Or just subtract libertarian points for his whole-hearted support of the Patriot Act.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Indeed. Flake is better than Palin, though both are a cut above your average Repub.

[Skip]

In 2008 she was doomed as soon as she had the AUDACITY to claim that her experience as a mayor and governor was better preparation for the Presidency than Black Jesus's 3 years in the Senate and community organizing.

[Pro Libertate]

I recall hearing an interview with her before she was named as the VP candidate, and she did make some libertarian noises. More so than usual, though much less than the Pauls, Flake, Cruz, et al.

Of course, she tossed much of that as McCain's VP/sexy librarian.

[Robert]

I always thought she was considerably more libertarian than the avg. person as well as a long way more libertarian than the avg. VP candidate, and slightly more libertarian than the avg. Republican. (By every measure I've seen, Republicans in the USA in recent times have avgd. nationwide significantly more libertarian than the avg. person.)

I never thought she was a great politician, but I never thought she was a horrible one either. I could never figure out what it was about her that seemed to elicit vehement comment, good or bad, from so many.

[John]

So Ted Cruz is a "McCarthyite" because he pointed out that American academia and Harvard in particular is full of communists? Really Nick. I know you probably don't remember much about college. But pointing out that Harvard is full of hard leftists is hardly going out on a limb.

And if there is a more anti-libertarian set of laws on earth than Sharia law, I am unaware of what they would be. So I am not really following how being concerned that such laws may come to the United States makes one anti-libertarian. And of course Palin didn't even say that. She only expressed support for Cruz who had said that.

And isn't impinging on Palin's integrity because of her support for Cruz, a bit "McCarthyite"? Basically the argument seems to be "Palin expressed admiration for someone who while holding many laudable views holds some views Nick Gillespie doesn't like and for that reason everything Palin says is suspect". That sounds like guilt by association to me.

[Irish]

And isn't impinging on Palin's integrity because of her support for Cruz, a bit "McCarthyite"?

Yes, as is impugning her credibility by attacking her Tea Party connections, etc. I'm not a fan of Palin for many reasons, and think a lot of her beliefs are very much at odds with my own, but there is a hysterical tendency for leftists, and Nick, apparently, to use blatantly McCarthyite tactics while claiming someone else is a McCarthyite.

I also think Ted Cruz is at least libertarian leaning, contrary to Nick's blanket claim that he's 'nobody's idea of a libertarian.' At the very least he's expressed serious skepticism of the surveillance state and has gone up against people in his own party while expressing anti-Neocon foreign policy prescriptions. I don't think someone magically becomes totally unlibertarian over the three issues Nick claims Cruz disagrees with us on, particularly the issue of immigration. That strikes me as a pretty idiotic purity test that just about anyone is bound to fail.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Cruz is easily more libertarian than 99% of Congress and 90% of the general public.

But let's just keep marginalizing libertarianism so that it is completely ineffective -- that's far better than letting the impure rabble dilute the brand (a brand which is already near-worthless thanks to Rothbardites and purer-than-thou libertarians).

[John]

Cruz doesn't want the country to go bankrupt. That alone puts him above 90% of Congress. But he once pointed out that Harvard is infested with Communists. So clearly he is to be shunned.

I wonder sometimes why Nick Gillespie works for Reason.

[Irish]

He also said that Sharia Law is bad and it wouldn't be a good thing for it to come to America.

I just don't get how he could argue that European enlightenment beliefs founded on the ideal of freedom form a better system than a millennium old, draconian, oppressive system crafted by a mass murderer who claimed he was ordained by God. Oh, that mass murderer also bangs a 9 year old, which means that many of the death cultists who still run countries in the name of Mohammed still allow the rape of children under ten because their prophet (peace be upon him) did the same thing.

How could Ted Cruz possibly speak out against the noble code of Sharia?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Yeah, just look at all those libertarian-friendly rulings handed down by fiqh-inspired courts each and every day.

[Stormy Dragon]

The Law of Lek? is bad and it wouldn't be a good thing for it to come to America either.

Anyone who thinks that we're in imminent danger of being overrun by traditional blood fueds and that preventing them should be one of our highest government priorities, however, is a paranoid nut.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I don't know anywhere on Earth that is currently governed by the Law of Leke, or where there are political movements in favor of instituting such.

In contrast, about a quarter of the world's population lives under systems governed or influenced by such laws, and many Islamic immigrants in Europe (and to a much lesser extent, the US) favor the institution of such laws.

It's not a huge concern at this point, but you are being naive if you think that the Law of Leke is anywhere near fiqh in terms of relevance.

[Stormy Dragon]

I don't know anywhere on Earth that is currently governed by the Law of Leke, or where there are political movements in favor of instituting such.

Parts of Albania. Which is why those parts of Albania are holes.

[Irish]

Yes, it isn't as if fundamentalist Islamists actually have attempted to implement Sharia law in European nations.

Oh, shit! They have actually already implemented Sharia courts, most of which are shockingly discriminatory towards women, in England!

Nearly forty percent of British Muslims also say they would prefer to live under Sharia Law and young Muslims are more likely to feel this way.

It isn't paranoia to warn about something that is actually happening, Stormy. The Western world legitimately is tending in a very negative direction in regards to the rule of law, and in much of Europe the vanguard leading the way towards the abolition of the rule of law comes primarily from the supporters of Sharia.

Show me one historically just country that is actually ceding parts of their justice system to the Law of Leke. I'll wait.

[John]

But if there were people in this country whose stated goal was to bring the law of Leke to this country, it would be wrong to call them out and say they were wrong?

There are people in this country who want Shiria law. They are not likely to ever get it. But they want it. So I fail to see how Cruz is a bad person for saying they are wrong.

[Irish]

They've actually gotten Sharia law in Muslim parts of Britain. It is discriminatory towards women and totally unjust. The U.S. will never have our overall justice system turned towards Sharia, but the possibility that parts of America will have a shadow justice system run by dangerous extremists is not paranoia. It has happened in other countries, and there isn't some magical force that would stop the same thing from occurring here.

[Cytotoxic]

This column really is shit. Style over substance by a mile.

[sam the man]

Not even good style.

[Pro Libertate]

Cruz is not Super Libertarian Man, no, but I've heard plenty from him that is more libertarian than usual for the GOP. He's imperfect, sure, but, then again, so is Rand Paul. And Ron Paul. And Gary Johnson. And so on.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

So Ted Cruz is a "McCarthyite" because he pointed out that American academia and Harvard in particular is full of communists?

I went to grad school with a literal card-carrying communist. We actually got along pretty well and shared a big laugh over the 2000 election fiasco, albeit for different reasons.

The only difference between him and the other grad students there is that he was honest about his marxist sympathies. That put him leagues above the others as far as his integrity was concerned.

[Warrren]

But can she suck 200 cocks in a row?

[Mad Scientist]

Kocktopus!!!!

[SIV]

No woman will ever live up to the high standards of your Mom.

[Lord Humungus]

how many licks does it take?

one...
two..
crunch.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The most people!

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Send this suggestion to her doppelgang(bang)er, Lisa Ann, and she might set something up to make you happy.

[creech]

Anyone know what interaction, if any, she's had with the Alaska LP over the years she's been politically active?

[entropy]

Well, her husband was reputed to be affiliated with Alaskan separatists, which I believe, which is fucking awesome.

[Stormy Dragon]

Keep in mind that the primary issue uniting Alaskan separatists is that if they broke off from the US, they could charge us even more for access to oil fields, thus allowing even higher universal welfare payments.

For all it's posing about rugged individualism, Alaska is the only outright socialist state in our country.

[entropy]

Yes, but I don't really care. I support Vermont separatism, and California separatists. Anything to establish a precedent for peaceful (or really any successful) secession gives us a way out of Orwell's nightmare.

[Robert]

I'd say it's a form of Georgism rather than socialism.

I guess it goes back to Russian North America, in that ownership of the land relates back to decree of the czar. It would be disruptive to void such arrangements and set the ownership of oil resources on some other basis, so I think the way they have it is in practice as libertarian as it can get.

[Lord Humungus]

didn't we already "do Palin" in yesterday's AM Links?

[Pro Libertate]

Apropos of nothing, I just had this weird vision of a mash-up between David Lo Pan and Sarah Palin: Lo Palin.

[Floridian]

If she takes a single step down the libertarian path she should encouraged. I did not go full libertarian over night. it was a process that took time. Libertarians need all the friends they can get.

[Floridian]

If she takes a single step down the libertarian path she should encouraged. I did not go full libertarian over night. it was a process that took time. Libertarians need all the friends they can get.

[John]

Sure. And that would be true of any other politician but Palin. Palin is all about the KULTURE War for people like Nick. They don't want Palin and people like her to be Libertarian. Palin is to people like Nick, the representation of what he considers White trash America. And the last thing Nick wants is for a bunch of white trash to become Libertarian.

[Lord Humungus]

CosmotarianZ!

[SugarFree]

John is the Kulture War Socrates. He thinks accusing everyone of engaging it means he's somehow not engaging in it himself.

[John]

Where did I ever say I wasn't engaging in it? I have always been quite honest about that. It is not me that is being dishonest. It is the people who spend their time bemoaning the culture war all the while fighting it at every turn who are being dishonest.

People like Gillespie are as big of culture warriors as their are. And good for them. I am one too. But why is it so hard for them to admit as much? Why can't Gillespie just be honest and admit he can't stand Palin because he thinks she is white trash and he doesn't like people like that? Why go to all of this obfuscation rather than just admitting it is about her culture?

[SugarFree]

If his opinion on Palin holds no weight because it is informed by Kulture War, then your opinion holds no weight either.

You are both just whining that bullies are picking on you.

[John]

I am not saying his opinion of Palin has no weight. I am saying it is wrong. There is a difference. And all I have ever said about Palin is that she is better than most politicians and the only reason people fixate on her is because of the culture war. That is hardly high praise. I am calling out Gillespie for his clownish snobbery more than I am defending Palin, as if she needs defending.

And I am not whining about anything. I am always happy to fight the culture war and call out "I just want the cool liberals to love me" Libertarians.

[SugarFree]

You've been deranged and defensive about Palin since forever.

She's a populist shitbag that would fuck every libertarian principle in the ass twice if she thought it would benefit her in the slightest.

[John]

She's a populist shitbag that would fuck every libertarian principle in the ass twice if she thought it would benefit her in the slightest.

Uh huh. It couldn't be that she is just the cultural other people love to hate. Couldn't be that. She is such a populist. That is it. Whatever you tell yourself there SF.

[SugarFree]

I love it when you get all emotional, John. I means I've won.

[John]

How am I emotional? I am just saying people like Gillespie hate Palin out of cutlural snobbery and nothing more. There is no rational case to dislike Palin anymore than any other Republican. In fact, there are tons of Republicans who are much more loathsome than Palin. Yet, people like Gillespie, and apparently you sadly, hate Palin more or just as much than legitimate crook scumbags like Lindsey Graham. There is no rational justification for that beyond, she is culturally something you hate. It is really that simple.

[SugarFree]

You've always been emotional about Palin, defensive way out of proportion because the "wrong" people don't like her.

She is just something culturally that you like. It really is that simple.

[John]

You've always been emotional about Palin, defensive way out of proportion because the "wrong" people don't like her.

Once again, show me how I am being emotional. And for sure, I love to defend Palin because people's reasons for disliking her are so clownish and stupid. To the extent that makes me "defensive" I am guilty as charged.

[T]

She is just something culturally that you like. It really is that simple.

Culture, schmulture. Daddy likey and that's it.

[DWC]

Yeah , but I'd still do her.

[Robert]

John's explanation is as good as any I've seen for Palin's gnomicity.

[GILMORE]

"" the only reason people fixate on her is because of the culture war.""

Wait... is "culture war" when you think someone is an incompetent fucking imbecile? I is confuse.

[John]

Wait... is "culture war" when you think someone is an incompetent fucking imbecile? I is confuse.

Yes, because you only think that about her as opposed to every other politician because of the culture war. There is nothing more incompetent about Palin than 90% of the rest of politicians in America. But you focus on Palin because of culture. It is your way of feeling good and showing you are not a part of that "other".

Thanks once again for proving my point Gilmore.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

But you focus on Palin because of culture.

Well, because culture keeps forcing her down my throat, yes.

[John]

Well, because culture keeps forcing her down my throat, yes

Really? How is that? I know, people of her ilk need to know their place. If you want a voice in the public dialog, go to a decent fucking school and lose your fucking accent. Right?

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

Really? How is that? I know, people of her ilk need to know their place. If you want a voice in the public dialog, go to a decent fucking school and lose your fucking accent. Right?

1) I'm from Arkansas. I have an accent too.

2) What I meant was I never talk about Sarah Palin at all, ever, unless someone else mentions her. I never talk about Maria Callas, either. It has nothing to do with culture.

[GILMORE]

""It is your way of feeling good and showing you are not a part of that "other".""

john, I come from a long line of poor white Carolina tabaccy-farmers...

so take your "other" and piss up a rope.

[John]

Piss up a rope yourself Gimore. The truth hurts. And who cares where you come from. That just means you are self loathing.

[SugarFree]

No, GILMORE. You don't have any real opinions if you dislike Palin. Those are only prejudices. Because you are a weak-willed hipster.

[GILMORE]

""SugarFree| 6.18.13 @ 3:50PM |#

...Because you are a weak-willed hipster.""

HEY! I LIVE IN BROOKLYN TO BEAT ON HIPSTERS! Someone's got to do it.

[Warrren]

Shut up or I'll take your munch loney.

[Cytotoxic]

ITT SF gets emotional as he claims others getting emotional lends him victory.

John is righ this is KULTR WAR shit and nothing more you guys are just too un-self aware to realize it.

[Floridian]

Jesus that thread got out of control. All I said was if someone glances toward liberty I will take their hand and walk them as far down the path as they are willing to go. Libertarians need to expand as fast as possible while retaining principles. If that means fellow travelers that are less than savory, i will take until they move towards tyranny.

[SugarFree]

Cytotoxic is on your side, John. You must be right!

[CE]

It's called "pandering". Politicians are good at it, it being saying what a lot of people want to here, particularly if other candidates aren't yet pandering to that group.

[entropy]

But most politicians aren't really even willing to pander to us.

We are to them, like Sarah Palin is to Nick, icky cootiemongers.

[LifeStrategies]

Sarah Palin's "new-found libertarianism" is cynically superficial, if not purely cynical.

Wasn't she quoted as saying Australian WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange should be hunted down in the way armed forces are targeting the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. see http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....89438.html

[SIV]

Palin's new-found libertarianism

If you knew who Sarah Palin was before McCain picked her,and lived outside Alaska , chances are you read about an up and coming "libertarian-leaning" Republican governor.Balko and other reason staffers pointed this out before all y'all read your Journolist emails back in 2008

[robc]

Im taking credit for it. I think I beat Balko et al. to the punch.

[General Butt Naked]

I saw one of those "up and coming" republican things on CNN once that featured Palin. They were practically gushing over her. It wasn't until she started telling the truth about Dear Leader that the media hit squads emered.

[Irish]

I don't think she's in any way libertarian. I think she's a populist rabble rouser who realizes that there is a president in the White House who her base hates, and that they like when she expresses disdain for this particular government.

Hating a particular government does not mean you are in favor of small government generally, and I fully expect her to become a normal Republican if one of them makes it back to the White House.

[Lord Humungus]

I'm hoping (against all hopes) that the last two Republican candidates - McCain and Romney - are the last we will see of the "normal" Republicans.

Of course I will be terribly wrong. Christie 2016!

[carol]

Please don't say that, even in jest. Christie makes my spleen hurt.

[Warrren]

It's all the fat.

[carol]

Mine or his?

[Warrren]

Warty's

[Robert]

What's so funny is that here in the Northeast we tend to think of Christie as the best kind of high ranking Republican politician we can get for now?but that's because of our regional environment, and I hope doesn't apply on a national scale.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Palin is quintessentially Alaskan, as evidenced by her record. Supports taxation of particular businesses for the public weal in a very populist way, but she also seems to share the Alaskan suspicion of centralized authority and of a large police state (she was actually pretty good on criminal justice issues as governor) and seems to favor regulatory overhaul as well.

Probably would be a better President than the last four we've had from a purely ideological point of view, but that's not much of a high bar.

[SIV]

Palin ran against the Republican establishment to win in Alaska.
Who was she "pandering to" when she officially signed a proclamation in favor of jury nullification?

[a better weapon]

If she wanted to rabble rouse for her base, wouldn't the typical republican way be to say he isn't being "tough enough" with Syria and pussy footing with Iran?

Instead, she is declaring that war fatigue is acceptable for followers of team red. This is quite good for her to be doing and might actually reflect a change in her core beliefs.

It could also be a one-off incident and she'll be asking to hunt Snowden from a helicopter next week, but I'm optimistic about this flash of libertarianism for now.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

I think she's a populist rabble rouser who realizes that there is a president in the White House who her base hates, and that they like when she expresses disdain for this particular government.

She's become a right-wing version of Elizabeth Warren--a formerly little-known politico who knows which buttons to push to get her particular political wing riled up against the other side.

The irony is that neither is particularly suitable to be in charge of a politically balkanized nation, but their supporters think that their particular flavor of TEAM is exactly what the country needs.

[sarcasmic]

The years are catching up to her.

[LTC(ret) John]

And...?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

to be blunt, she seems more like a relic of a bygone, little-missed era in showbiz-cum-politics.

What in the hell is Nick talking about here. Our goddamn President, elected less than a year ago, is himself an exemplar of "showbiz-cum-politics".

[DK]

I think he just wanted to write "cum".

/bevis-butthead

[Tonio]

Thank you, DK Johnson, for saying what needed to be said.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

Tonio Johnson is right about DK Johnson being right.

[General Butt Naked]

I know a guy that calls Obama "Gay-Z" which is an insult to every gay person.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Oy.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

No shit. Obama makes Jack from Will and Grace look like Robert Mitchum by comparison.

[General Butt Naked]

How about, cum-showbiz-politics?

[Cytotoxic]

Nick doesn't know. He can't put a finger on his amporphous poorly-defined instictive reaction to Palin, so we get this crap.

[Tman]

I guess Sarah has decided she still wants to be kicked around some more.

Way to go for the tough out Nick. Picking on Sarah for not being a true scotsman!

Tis truly a wonder why more people aren't fleeing the two parties and converting to libertarianism. Why, one day you too might be mocked by the Jacket for failing to live up to his definition of libertarian bonafides!

[John]

If you went to the right school and are not one of those people, you know hicks who go to church, live in places like Idaho and eat at Olive Gardens, you will be fine. Just stick to the big coastal cities and eat at a food truck once in a while, and there will be no mocking.

[SIV]

"I'll have a cup of cosmotarian Kool-Aid with my artisanal cupcake please"

[John]

Don't forget your artisan mayonnaise with that.

[Warty]

Did you just confess to eating at Olive Garden?

[General Butt Naked]

John takes his granpa from the old country when he visits.

BELLISIMO!!!

[John]

Yes. They took my probational Cosmotarian card as soon as someone implicated me at one of the self assessment meetings.

[General Butt Naked]

But people that eat at Olive Garden are horrible.

[Warrren]

We're family.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

No kidding. There are probably real Italian restaurants owned by real Italian people in your own town.

[Episiarch]

Good to know that Sarah Palin still makes the KULTUR WAR idiots retarded. Well, that is to say, they're already retarded, but Palin still manages give them a nice shot of energy. I wonder when that will finally go away. Probably never. KULTUR WAR retards gonna retard.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

It's beyond bizarre. Palin was not a particularly distinguished governor in the context of Alaskan politics, nor was her personal life particularly interesting or off-kilter.

People really need to find a new hobby if Palin is what gets them worked up.

[Episiarch]

I had really hoped all this idiotic Palin bullshit was behind us, but I was foolish in the extreme it seems. How utterly passe.

[Cytotoxic]

Sarah Palin still makes the KULTUR WAR idiots retarded.

So you and Gillespie.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Compare and contrast the coverage of people like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin (not libertarian, but good on some issues of importance to libertarians) to people like Glenn Greenwald. Whereas Greenwald is showered with praise despite his rather abhorrent views of the state on all issues not civil liberties + drugs, you wouldn't know it from Reason's coverage. In contrast, whenever someone of conservative repute says something sympathetic to libertarianism we are treated to breathless articles about how that person is No True Libertarian.

I don't know if that is because this magazine is trying to pander to younger readers or if it is because the editors mostly reside and identify with hyper-progressive urban enclaves, but whatever the reason it comes off as a pathetic attempt to suck up.

[John]

It is pure culture war. People like Gillespie hate Palin more than or just as much as they hate legitimate scumbags like Christie or Graham or Peter King. They write nastier shit about Palin than they do about those clowns. The only reason I can see is culture. They just hate the idea that someone of her ilk could have any influence at all. Lindsey Graham may be horrible, but at least he is acceptable in polite company. And sure Glen Greenwald is a fucking socialist. But, do you know what school he went to?

[Warty]

Sarah Palin's only redeeming quality is how much the left hates her. Other than that, she's a dumber Ann Coulter. She says dumb shit, makes the left go crazy with rage, makes the right love her for pissing off their enemies, and pockets a shitload of cash.

[John]

In all seriousness, name me a single thing she has ever said that is half as offensive or over the top as some of the stuff Coulter says. What reason is there to think she is dumb? What, a single interview that was selectively edited to make her look bad? That happened five years ago? I don't get why people say she is dumb. Every time I see the woman talk she seems pretty reasonable and intelligent to me.

Maro Rubio is dumb. Diane Feinstein is dumb. Lindsey Graham is dumb. I don't see how Palin isn't a lot smarter than most of the clowns in Congress.

[Warty]

I don't see how Palin isn't a lot smarter than most of the clowns in Congress.

Undoubtedly true.

Let's see, something dumb she said...ah, here we go.

And if we do rededicate our land to our Lord, things will turn around

Retarded. It's on a level with feminists screeching about rape culture and patriarchy.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

To be fair, she may have simply been expressing her opinion on the direction she thinks the next Game of Thrones season should go.

[entropy]

So you mean like Glen Greenwald, Libertarian sock-puppeteer extraordinare?

[a better weapon]

Honestly, its her voice. I have an irrational discounting of anything I hear her say.

I never got on board with the Palin hate festivals so I can't say for sure, but her voice irritates the shit out of me.

[Warty]

That too, her voice is horrible.

And I don't really have anything against her, really. She's found a profitable niche that she's good at, and she whips up people I dislike into a frenzy, so that's good. I would just prefer that people treat her as a sideshow act, not a serious thinker.

[John]

The voice doesn't bother me. To me a Boston or a Chicago accent drive me up the wall more than the Minnesota one or whatever she has.

[Warty]

This country is a rich tapestry of intolerable accents. Somewhere, in a parallel universe even more horrible than our own, the president is a Yinzer.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I have a libertarian-lite friend who worked as the guy in charge of corralling and containing the pubsec unions in AK, and his opinion was that Palin is of above average intelligence.

He didn't like her very much (very much a party man, through and through), but he grudgingly gave her that much credit.

[John]

If she is even average intelligence she is smarter than nearly all of Congress and at least some of the Reason staff.

[Robert]

I think what Trouser's referring to may be partly culture war, but mostly it's the marketer's desire to distinguish hir boutique brand from a mass market product it's similar to.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

Compare and contrast the coverage of people like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin (not libertarian, but good on some issues of importance to libertarians) to people like Glenn Greenwald.

Greenwald very publically supported Gary Johnson (and took a lot of flack from the left over it). I'd say his bona fides are well ahead of those of Beck or Palin right now.

[Drake]

Palin was state co-chair of Steve Forbes' Presidential campaign. While I wouldn't call her libertarian, she does seem to generally side with the reasonable side of the GOP.

[Jon Lester]

She ought to at least appreciate libertarianism, because more than half of the country would be perfectly happy to leave her to her own devices, out of sight and out of mind.

I do appreciate her at least trying to invoke some anti-establishment sentiment, but that's just because of my own subversive agenda.

[SugarFree]

You know, she told her audience, "this land was dedicated to our Lord God, and he has blessed it, and we do well to re-dedicate it at this time to our one, true, heavenly father." Faced with so many problems, she continued, "we need that divine inspiration, we need to ask that hand of protection and blessings of our father again to fall upon our nation. Not that we are a deserving people but that's what God is all about, grace and mercy, and forgiveness. And if we do rededicate our land to our Lord, things will turn around."

Libertarianism in a nutshell.

[John]

So Libertarianism is now exclusively "atheist"? That will come as a hell of a surprise to the Pauls.

[SugarFree]

Or people mistrust her for this kind of shit and not because of food truck or whatever else you and SIV are hurr-durring over.

[John]

It took me a single google search to find Ron Paul saying pretty much the same thing. But that is different I am sure.

[sarcasmic]

So Libertarianism is now exclusively "atheist"?

Um, no. Nice strawman, Red Tony.

[Irish]

No, it isn't 'exclusively atheist.' However, I would argue that there is a difference between people like the Pauls, who are religious, but generally respectful of other religions, and someone claiming that the land we all occupy is given to us by God and that we are lowly maggots only worthy because God has ordained us as a superior nation.

Do you not see the difference between these two beliefs?

[SugarFree]

I assure you he doesn't.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I don't see a functional difference between either belief provided that it's not implemented into law.

Mind you, I find the religious form of American Exceptionalism to be abject, talismanic nonsense, but so long as I'm not required to uphold it I don't give a damn.

[Rights-Minimalist Autocrat]

Mind you, I find the religious form of American Exceptionalism to be abject, talismanic nonsense

I agree. And I'm an atheist and therefore don't really care, but I don't see how the phrase "God bless America" isn't blasphemous.

[Robert]

Ha-choo!

[Tony]

Rationality is exclusively atheist.

[T]

So, what church do you attend, Tony? Because you and rationality aren't even casual acquaintances. I'm pretty sure rationality has you blocked on social media.

[SugarFree]

He attends The Church of the Unredeemed Dipshit, Orthodox.

[LTC(ret) John]

And here I was thinking he was Reformed, CUD...huh.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

So what? I don't care if the next President sacrifices a goat to Lucifer on the White House lawn every day, so long as he governs according to the documents he swore to uphold and has a halfway reasonable approach to free markets and civil liberties.

It is, however, interesting that Nick feels the need to quote a very benign and completely harmless prayer at a "Faith" conference as an example of anti-libertarian bonafides.

[Jayburd]

I'm all for goat sacrifices to Lucifer, as long as elementary school children are invited to be a part of the ceremonies, like the Easter egg hunts.

[John]

He believes Scripture is God's Word and thus inerrant and infallible. He says: "Defiance of God's Law will eventually bring havoc to a society." He believes our country came together by God's Providence "just as, Providentially, it may end, by God's Will."

http://www.christiannewswire.c.....23991.html

Really Sugarfree? Really? You really didn't know that was coming?

[SugarFree]

Ron Paul and--to a far lesser extent--Rand Paul have voting records to back up the idea that they don't want to legislate their religion. Palin does not.

[John]

So when they say it it is different. Thanks for confirming exactly what I said above.

Complaining about Palin is so cowardly. It really is. It is totally giving into bullshit cultural pressure. Hating Palin is how stupid people feel smart. You are better than that SF.

[SugarFree]

I can't understand why people call you Red Tony.

[John]

That is all you got SF? Really? I thought I was doing this because I am obsessed with culture. Now it is because I am a partisan who will defend any Republican. Which is it?

It is funny. All I am saying is that Palin is a better than average Republican who makes some sense on a lot of issues. You and Nick are the ones who are convinced that she is some kind of populist demagogue and even when she says something right it doesn't count. But I am the one who is obsessed with her. I am the one who is acting out the culture war here. You sure about that?

[SugarFree]

It is totally giving into bullshit cultural pressure. Hating Palin is how stupid people feel smart.

Uh-huh. But that's not what you are doing, right John?

Sometimes your lack of self-awareness amazes me.

[Warrren]

I thought he was Red John.

[sarcasmic]

Talk about not getting it.

[SugarFree]

Whatever, sarc. You are just sheep doing what you're told and John is the only who's got it all figured out. Wake up, man!

I guess Tulpa is getting farmed out for parts. MP got the cop bootlicking and John got the unwarranted sense of superiority.

[robc]

Palin does not.

Really? What in her record as governor of Alaska suggests she wants to legislate religion?

Serious question, I have no idea, but I assume you know of something to say that.

[SugarFree]

Well, she did drag banning abortion up to conception as an issue in a mayoral race...

But, mostly, I trust the Religious Right to recognize one of their own. And except for a few bright lights and religious libertarians, Christians on the right and the left are eager to put their beliefs into law.

I mean, Ralph Reed? Really? Geez, Palin.

[robc]

I thought we were going on legislative record?

Sure, as governor, she only gets sign v veto, but I figured you had something.

[SugarFree]

It doesn't look like any social issues were put before her by the Alaskan legislature.

[John]

Well, she did drag banning abortion up to conception as an issue in a mayoral race...

Since when is that a religious issue? Since we know about DNA and know what happens in the womb, which we didn't in time past, it is a perfectly rational argument to say that something that is has a full human set of DNA, is replicating and will grow into a full human being if left alone is a "life".

You don't agree with that argument and that is fine. But it is not a strictly religious argument. And making it is not dragging religion into politics.

[SugarFree]

But it is not a strictly religious argument.

So Ralph Reed, head of a politically active socially conservative religious organization, invited a viper into their midst? Was she duped into appearing?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Sug, Rand Paul was endorsed by several religious right personages and organizations. Ron Paul was endorsed by Roe of Roe v Wade fame -- someone who is fairly well known in the religious right as a pro-life campaigner. He was also endorsed by several dominionist thinkers, who quite frankly make Santorum look mild and inoffensive by comparison. If guilt by association damns Palin, then it damns the Pauls, as well.

[SugarFree]

Ron Paul also made repeated declarations that he had no interest in legislating issues.

I'm not a big Paulbot, but Palin isn't Paul and it would take years to catch up with him. And Rand's ball-licking of socons doesn't dispose me to him. And he has a flat-out anti-federalist stance on abortion.

[John]

Ron Paul also made repeated declarations that he had no interest in legislating issues.

So has Palin. But when she says the right things she is just being craven.

Why do you find it so difficult to hold her to the same standard you hold every other politician? What is the big deal with just admitting she is a better than average Republican and liberals are off their nut in their hatred of her? What is the big fucking deal?

[SugarFree]

Why do you find it so difficult to hold her to the same standard you hold every other politician?

I do. Ron Paul is the exception, not her. I have the same regard for Palin that I do Pelosi or King or Schumer or Christie.

[John]

So you think Palin is just like Pelosi. But you don't have any sort of irrational hatred of the woman. Not at all. Come SF. Just get over it. Palin is not Pelosi. She is not even Lindsey Graham. She is better than most Republicans. Claiming otherwise much less that she is like Pelosi or King just makes you look stupid and crazy.

[KMA Too]

What robc said. I'm not sure I fully get your take on Palin, and it would honestly be helpful to have you articulate your opinion-beyond what you've posted with John.

Has she been particularly untrustworthy? Did she cross any lines with regards to fundamental libertarian principles? I haven't disliked what I've seen of her, but I fully admit my overall ignorance on her politics. If you've got info, I'm certainly interested in reading it.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Speaking only for myself, my problem with Palin as a governor was that she wasn't really good at managing crisis and scandal, needed to have a tighter grip on the bureaucracies she was running, and that she instituted a populist, punitive, and redistributive tax scheme on the oil corps in AK. Other than that, she was a pretty decent governor as far as legislation passed goes.

[SugarFree]

Here's what I think. I think she's a Republican. I think she thinks she's a Republican. Bully for her. And she shadow-boxes libertarian idea. But Republicans always give half-hearted handjobs to libertarianism when they are out of power.

I give Palin the same benefit of the doubt I give the vast majority of self-described Republicans: zero.

Although... maybe she really is a small government libertarian in a GOP pantsuit. After all, we knew nothing about Obama and he turned out to be a liberaltarian, right? And a staunch defender of civil liberties? Right?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Eh. She was no one's idea of a libertarian, but she was very, very good on criminal justice issues and police brutality, as well as civil justice.

IMO she would have been better than any President in my lifetime on the War on Drugs, had she been elected as such.

[John]

I give Palin the same benefit of the doubt I give the vast majority of self-described Republicans: zero.

Last I looked both Pauls were self described Republicans. Are they just like Pelosi too?

Not all Republicans are the same and you know it. Stop letting Palin drive you into lunacy.

[KMA Too]

Hmmm...OK. Both you and Trouser have good points. Politics is a shitty world to work/live in, and what gets you advantages comes with a moral cost (well, most of the time).

Maybe, though, in our current time, any of the R's that espouse any libertarian principles should be encouraged.

Yeah, yeah, Reason snark and all. But, still, some of us are listening, and we do learn.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

half-hearted handjobs

Since when did you start cribbing your short-story titles for HnR posts?

[Redmanfms]

Not even John is claiming that Palin is a libertarian, only that she leans that direction. So what's your point?

Steve Chapman and Mike Godwin routinely make fundamentally anti-liberty statements in their articles, yet they still get published here.

Then, of course, there are the missives about guys like Ron Wyden, who every bit as much not a libertarian (if not more so) as is Palin.

[entropy]

NO SHIT!

Palin is more libertarian than Steve Chapman. Palin's Buttplug is more libertarian than Steve Chapman.

[a better weapon]

Eh, she's expressing her deep faith to a crowd of like-minded people.

If she does that for the closing statement of a presidential debate, that might cause me to raise an eyebrow but people of faith talk like that all the time.

[Tony]

Yet there's every reason to believe that Palin's new-found libertarianism is deeply misinformed, cynically superficial, or some mix of both.

God you better hope so. Nothing would make me more quickly abandon a political movement than Sarah Palin joining it.

[Warty]

Fuck off, sockpuppet.

[SugarFree]

Fuck off, sockpuppet. The adults are talking.

[Episiarch]

Are you sure about that?

[SugarFree]

Fuck off, sockpuppet. The adults are talking.

[Episiarch]

Fine! If you don't want to talk about the season premieres of True Blood or Falling Skies it's your loss!

Jerk.

[SugarFree]

I stopped watching Falling Skies. I wanted to punch over half the characters in the face and there was never going to be any nudity.

I did see the True Blood premiere. Watching it is just an exercise in self-loathing at this point.

[Warty]

Have they gotten rid of the homely blond yet? She really detracted from the show's hotness average, and she barely ever got naked.

[SugarFree]

You mean Sookie?

[Warty]

Yes, that one. NEEDS MOAR HOTTER NEEDS MOAR NAKEDER

[robc]

I stopped watching Falling Skies.

This season is about to do it for me. They stole the worst plot line from V.

The original, not the remake.

[Episiarch]

rob, that was the exact thought I had when watching the premiere. Oh well, it was fun for a while.

[robc]

Note to future Sci-Fi TV writers: Dont steal ideas from cheesy sci-fi shows of the past.

Not V, not Earth 2, not Lost in Space. Not Space 1999.

If you are gonna steal, steal from novels.

[SugarFree]

And there are so many novels to steal from!

Lest Darkness Fall would make a great TV show, for example.

[Killazontherun]

Every month for over thirty years Asimov's Science Fiction published at least one novella legnth story that would make for better full length movie adaptations than anything Scyfy ever produced.

I use to try to get published there when I was still in college. Seven highly personalized rejections.

[Warty]

Seven highly personalized rejections.

Dear Mr. Onthrun,

Your recent short story submission, "Space Captain Megaboner and the Mystery of the Vag Nebula", is by far the worst submission we have ever received. If you ever again submit something so irredeemably horrible, I will hire assassins to murder you and your family. This is not a threat, merely a statement of fact.

Sincerely,
(NAME REDACTED)
Editor-in-chief

[Killazontherun]

How did you get a copy of that?

[sarcasmic]

Principals matter. Principles? Wazzat?

[Tony]

They are the chief administrators of primary and secondary schools.

[Irish]

Nothing would make me more quickly abandon a political movement than Sarah Palin joining it.

And nothing would make all thinking people join a movement faster than you leaving it.

[SugarFree]

Oh, Kentucky...

Massie holds two degrees from MIT, started a successful 3D-imaging company in Massachusetts, and built his old, off-the-grid Kentucky home with his bare hands, planing the timber himself and decking it out with solar panels. "I tell Republicans," he told me in a recent interview, "you can hate the subsidies ? I hate the subsidies too ? but you can't hate solar panels. These are rocks that make electricity, so they are incapable of receiving your hate."

[Warty]

Solar panels are rocks. I mean, I guess if you use "rocks" to mean "fancy science objects", that makes sense. Did he catch retard when he crossed the state line, or is he retarding up his talkin' words to appeal to the locals?

[SugarFree]

To be fair, his two degrees at MIT were both in Gender Studies.

[General Butt Naked]

One for each gender: cis- and trans-female!

[robc]

I think he means rocks in "made from stuff from the earth". I saw that a while back and thought it was stupid too, but I get the point.

[Warty]

We don't need your fancy science words round these parts! Rocks was good enough for my daddy, and they're good enough for me!

[Redmanfms]

Solar panels are rocks. I mean, I guess if you use "rocks" to mean "fancy science objects", that makes sense. Did he catch retard when he crossed the state line, or is he retarding up his talkin' words to appeal to the locals?

When I was a Navy nuke we used to jokingly refer to the reactor as a "hot rock."

Maybe that's where it comes from?

If that's the case, why do his cohorts so hate nuclear power???

[Redmanfms]

Cohorts in Congress.

[NeonCat]

Even radiant hate?

[Killazontherun]

And it doesn't matter if it's a Republican or a Democrat sitting atop of a bloated boot on your neck. With bloated government, everyone gets infected and no party is immune.

Can't help but to notice that qualifier in there. As if to make sure we don't mistake the boot on our necks for something S&M sexy.

[NeonCat]

Unless you like dominatrices with cankles?

[Killazontherun]

Not me. I'm not a foot fetish, but a long lithe, well defined bone structure on an ankle, and its like, DAMN!

[SIV]

Fortunately for libertarian-minded voters, Palin and Cruz are hardly the only fishes in the sea. As the recent report on young voters from the College Republican National Committee pointed out, the GOP is flush with next-generation leaders, among them Chris Christie, Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal.

Are these Nick Gillespie's idea of GOP politicians who appeal to "libertarian-minded" voters" WTF? Palin never said anything near that fucking stupid.

[Irish]

Chris Christie, Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal.

HAHAHAHA! I missed that part. Rubio and Christie in particular are big government Republicans who lean libertarian on two or three issues. Cruz, by contrast, is a libertarian leaning Republican who disagrees with libertarians on a few issues.

How on Earth can Gillespie even attempt to claim that Rubio is more consistently libertarian than Ted Cruz?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Jesus tittyfucking Christ. How the hell is Chris Christie more libertarian even than Palin?!

What the hell, Nick.

[General Butt Naked]

Christie scored a 96 on the buttplug purity test.

That puts him somewhere between Obama and Hitler.

[Cytotoxic]

Everything John has said here is true.

[Killazontherun]

I almost missed that one too. Did he seriously put Christie on his list? Not only does he have no libertarian bona fides, he is politically D-E-A-D outside of his state. If NG doesn't know that, he hasn't spoken to rank and file Republicans in over two years.

[John]

I missed Christie. I guess gun rights are no longer necessary for someone to be Libertarian. And by putting Jindal on the list, Nick forfeits the right to ever complain about the Republicans being too SOCON. Jindel is every bit as SOCON and Rick Santorum.

[SIV]

Jindal went to Brown and has a grad degree in Public Health from Oxford. These are "libertarian qualifications" in cosmotaria.

[T]

Jindal made his bones in LA reforming the state hospital system so it wasn't a complete clusterfuck. Not an inconsiderable feat, mind you, but it doesn't indicate much in the way of libertarian bona fides.

[John]

Jindal is by all accounts a decent governor. But he is hardly a Libertarian or anyone Gillespie would have much use for if he wasn't going on a Palin bender.

[JeremyR]

Remember, to Cosmotarians, guns are icky.

[John]

marco Rubio.

You know the guy who just told every unemployed American that they were only unemployed because they were shitty workers who needed to be replaced by a Mexican.

That guy is a star. And last I looked Jindal was every bit the SOCON people like Gillespie claim Palin is but actually isn't.

[SIV]

Jindal is a tax-raising, government healthcare-supporting SoCon.

[John]

Isn't Jindal all buddy buddy with the guy who does exorcisms?

This is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Several years ago Reason had fucking kittens because Palin was once seen at a church service with a guy who claimed to do exorcisms. Meanwhile Jindal is practically Mr. Exorcism and he is now a "libertarian voice" for the yutes.

None of the standards that apply to Palin ever apply to any other politician.

[Killazontherun]

Fortunately for libertarian-minded voters, Palin and Cruz are hardly the only fishes in the sea.

EEEK! EEK! A mouse!

What's Nick's problem with Cruz? For a serious libertarian, every politician, be it Barney Frank, Patrick Leahy, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Sarah Palin are only as good as the extent they support civil liberties, low to no tax policies, cutting the budget deficit, cutting the budget, ending corporate welfare. Matters external to this, personality, religion, social status, are irrelevant except to entertain.

Nick often sounds childish.

[Gbob]

I've never quite understood the level of hatred Palin generates. There's something visceral about it. The reaction she elicits is so strong that it becomes far easier to nod at a person, foaming at the mouth about her, than to disagree with them on point. "Of course she's an idiot" we say, surrendering ground rather than trying to argue the point of the matter. The mob makes cowards of us all.

Would a Vice President Palin have been any worse than any other politician? One could make an argument that she would, in some ways, be preferable to the current office holder.

Still, this isn't an opinion I would voice in polite company. She's just team red, after all, and there's no reason to put myself through the grief of having to defend myself over the reputation of someone who isn't even a member of a party I support.

Perhaps I feel guilty over this, and so find myself liking the woman more and more just because of the low quality of her enemies. This will either require more reflection or some serious drinking.

[Drake]

I kind of like her because - like Liver-Eater Johnson - she makes good enemies.

[JeremyR]

It's a culture thing. She's a rural American, which to many, is the worst thing in the world.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

to reach younger voters ? and libertarian-minded independents ? the GOP will need spokespeople categorically different from Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz[...] The College Republicans found that young voters also insist on intelligence and credibility in their politicians and policy proposals.

What is wrong with Cruz? Fuck you, Nick. Cruz can certainly be said to be "intelligent" and "credible", and there is no reason to believe that he is repelling young people.

[Fatty Bolger]

I agree, Palin is one thing, but saying that about Cruz is bullshit. "Intelligent" and "credible" describes Cruz very well. If the entire GOP modeled itself after Cruz, it wouldn't be libertarian, but it would be a much more intelligent and credible party than it is now.

[Killazontherun]

Cruz is not to be underestimated. I've seen him work that floor, and his rhetorical style is supple and impressive. In a public debate between NG and Cruz, Cruz would kick his ass sideways to Mars even if Cruz was tasked to defend kitten sacrifices. How Cruz got on the black list of people to keep at an arms length or else your social peers will ostracize you is beyond me.

[entropy]

Because it scares them how much he sometimes comes out of nowhere and kicks their ass and makes it looks easy.

[entropy]

Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz are the non-libertarians closest to libertarianism.

Rubio may as well be a front for Lindsay Graham, and Crispy Cr?me is what Lincoln Chaffee would be if he ate all his opponents, as is the custom in the primitive cannibal lands of New Jersey.

[Jayburd]

What? You can't be fat and be a Libertarian?

[Fatty Bolger]

Palin herself has sneered at immigration reform, dismissing pending Senate legislation as "a pandering, rewarding-the-rule-breakers, still-no-border-security, special-interest-written amnesty bill."

That's a pretty accurate description.

If I support immigration reform, does that mean I have to support every crap bill to come out of Congress that calls itself "immigration reform?"

[Drake]

"20 Million New Democrats" would be a shorter name for it.

[SIV]

Those damn Republican populist morons!

WHEREAS, September 5, 2007, will mark the 337th anniversary of the day when the jury, in the trial of William Penn, refused to convict him of violating England's Conventicle Acts, despite clear evidence that he acted illegally by preaching a Quaker sermon to his congregation.

WHEREAS, by refusing to apply what they determined was an unjust law, the Penn jury not only served justice, but provided a basis for the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment rights of freedom of speech, religion, and peaceable assembly.

WHEREAS, September 5th, 2007, also commemorates the day when four of Penn's jurors began nine weeks of incarceration for finding him not guilty. Their later release and exoneration established forever the English and American legal doctrine that it is the right and responsibility of the trial jury to decide on matters of law and fact.

WHEREAS, the Sixth and Seventh Amendments are included in the Bill of Rights to preserve the right to trial by jury, which in turn conveys upon the jury the responsibility to defend, with its verdict, all other individual rights enumerated or implied by the U.S. Constitution, including its Amendments.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, Sarah Palin, Governor of the State of Alaska, do hereby proclaim September 5, 2007, as:

Jury Rights Day

in Alaska, in recognition of the integral role the jury, as an institution, plays in our legal system.

Dated: August 31, 2007

[LTC(ret) John]

Geez, Nick, that was a bit of methane sneaking out of the ol' cranium. I know it was at Newsweek II, but I sure hope you can get back on an even keel after that.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Perhaps Palin should take to wearing a leather jacket.

[General Butt Naked]

Fortunately for libertarian-minded voters, Palin and Cruz are hardly the only fishes in the sea. As the recent report on young voters from the College Republican National Committee pointed out, the GOP is flush with next-generation leaders, among them Chris Christie, Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal.

Christ almighty, did you really fucking write this without your fucking head popping like an oily zit?

Fucking fuck, man. What the fuck does the second sentence have to do with the first one? Anything Christie, other than his self-immolation, is not fortunate for "libertarian-minded voters". The guy fellated Obama on national teevee for chrissakes.

Don't you have a degree in journalizing, or something? Don't they teach you not to write stupid shit?

[T]

Nick's PhD is in English Lit. It's all about writing stupid shit at that point, isn't it?

[Fatty Bolger]

As the recent report on young voters from the College Republican National Committee pointed out, the GOP is flush with next-generation leaders, among them Chris Christie, Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal.

Was Nick's account hacked or something? Are we being trolled? Christie, Rubio, and Jindal? Fat, stupid, and corrupt is no way to rebuild a party, son.

[DesigNate]

You know, sometimes I think Nick just writes these posts to piss people off.

[John]

Look at where the article appeared. It is on Huffpo. Nick is playing to his audience and potential future employers.

[Lord Humungus]

we can only hope.

[Mike M.]

Palin should smoke weed live on videocamera some day. I think Gillespie's head would literally explode.

[John]

He would just call her a craven opportunist who is bringing discredit upon the pro legalization movement. If she kept at it long enough, Nick might have to reconsider his support for legalization.

[Tony]

She's a bloomin' idiot, John. I endorse the establishment of a criticism-free window of time during which you will be free to disavow your long-held, bizarre, support for her, and nobody will razz you for it, for the purposes of goodness and sanity.

[John]

Tony,

You are one of the dumbest people on here. And you support a President who can't speak a coherent sentence if it is not written on a teleprompter. Palin has a higher IQ than nearly the entire Democratic Caucus in Congress. Now, none of them have IQs that reach 100. So that isn't much of a compliment.

But whatever Palin's intelligence, someone from the party of ignorance, low IQ, low information voters, and superstition about everything from guns to oil to technology, like yourself, really is in no position to judge.

Tony, your side believes in things like green energy unicorns and that CO2 causes the earth to warm and that the government can spend money forever with no consequence. Idiocy is really too light of a word.

[Tony]

My God you should really stick with history.

John it is a tested and proven fact that people who watch FOX News (Mrs. Palin's once and current place of employment) makes people less informed than people who consume no news at all. This is clearly your problem, and I just wish I knew what to do about.

I've never seen you so hysterically defend another politician; is it because the others you support don't have tits?

[John]

Tony,

You belong to a fascist movement full of woefully ignorant and hateful people who believe in dreadfully harmful ideas. For this reason, your opinion about Palin or really anyone else' intelligence carries little weight.

[Tony]

Sarah Palin is so dumb I don't have to have an "opinion" on the matter. It just is. I've never heard one thing come out of her mouth that wasn't empty slogan or pure gibberish. Come on man.

And it is rich when the supporter of a textbook demagogue calls others a fascist.

[John]

Yeah Tony, She is so stupid she believes in stuff like the stumulus keeping unemployment down and Obama care lowering insurance premiums. You know really smart stuff like green energy jobs.

It is so funny to listen to someone like you who believes in such obviously stupid things call someone stupid. There isn't a dumb idea or piece of superstition you don't embrace. I am sure you do think Palin is dumb. But I don't think that means what you think it means.

[Tony]

So macroeconomic outcomes line up pretty much perfectly with what the Keynesians predicted, and the stimulus was wrongheaded? What was your guys' big idea? Oh yeah! More tax cuts for rich people. That's some genius stuff there.

And you're explicitly claiming that pumping billions of tons of a greenhouse gas into the atmosphere has no warming effect. What I'm wondering is where the fuck is your Nobel Prize?

It's pretty easy for Sarah Palin to throw spitballs from the back of retard class when nobody expects or requires her to produce anything other than the mind-numbingly empty slogans that she assumes are thoughts.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

So macroeconomic outcomes line up pretty much perfectly with what the Keynesians predicted

They didn't line up with shit. Like most Keynesians, you'll continue to claim that not enough money was spent, when the fact of the matter is that the amount was irrelevant.

I've crushed you on this with the government's own data repeatedly.

[Tony]

Surely you're not referring to the same Christina Romer chart they published before Obama was in office that they have long since disavowed as being too rosy a prediction.

Yes, of course the stimulus wasn't big enough. What's going wrong in Europe? The austerity not big enough?

[DesigNate]

What's going wrong in Europe is they aren't even anywhere near "austerity" you fucking retard.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Surely you're not referring to the same Christina Romer chart they published before Obama was in office that they have long since disavowed as being too rosy a prediction.

As I recall, you're the same retard that claimed state and local spending had plunged, after which I showed you the data from the White House's own website that showed that wasn't the case.

You're way out of your depth arguing the math with me, Tony. I've beaten your ass repeatedly on it time after time after time.

[DesigNate]

And most of those tax cuts went to the poor and middle class. But we all know how you really feel about them, don't we sockpuppet?

[Joe Durnavich]

Tony, here is Sarah Palin, as governor, talking with an Alaskan native (starts about 40 seconds in). The native calls for government handouts from the oil money. Palin patiently tries to explain that it would be better to have the native young people work in the industry instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-AES-LZeT0

Governor Palin gets it. Too few politicians these days do, preferring instead to pander for votes with other peoples' money.

[Floridian]

You mean like "hope and change"?

[entropy]

You know what, although she hasn't supported legalization outright, because she is the socon goddess, I bet that if she doesn't smoke weed, she knows several people in her immediate family who do.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

She lived in Wasilla, AK. There's no question that she has plenty of friends and family who do whatever they can get their hands on.

[Cytotoxic]

Nick embarrasses himself with reactionary mis-finformed and superficial article about Palin. John points out bullshit. Butthurt Jacket-groupies HUR DUR on about KOZMOS and RED TONEY.

[Irish]

That's not what happened. Here's what happened:

John points out Nick's bullshit. People overall agree, particularly in regards to Nick's bullshit about Ted Cruz. John goes insane and starts claiming that any criticism of Sarah Palin is the result of KULTUR WAR even as people give substantive criticism. Cyto shows up to give John a reach around while he continues to sputter madly.

[John]

I never claimed any criticism of Palin is the result of the culture war. I claimed most criticism and Nick's in particular is the result of the culture war. I have never said Palin is above criticism. She is not.

So do me a favor and stop misstating my views.

[Irish]

Bullshit. Gilmore mentioned Palin's hawkish views on war. Your response was basically 'Yeah! Well lots of Republicans are hawks! This proves that you just like her due to the culture war!'

The first part of that statement is true, but Republicans are CONSTANTLY criticized here for being hawks. It is a substantive criticism to point out Sarah Palin's often insane views of foreign policy. The fact that you claim this substantive criticism is just part of the culture war is such an absurd argument that it would almost be beneath rebutal if you didn't continuously repeat it.

I'm not misstating your views. No matter what someone says about Palin, no matter how much substance there is in that criticism, you claim that it's the culture war.

[Irish]

Second line should read 'This proves that you just DISlike her due to the culture war.'

[John]

No, again you misrepresent my point. It is not that her being a hawk isn't a valid criticism. It is if you are a dove. It is that lots of other politicians are hawks, yet still get credit for the good things they believe. And more importantly, her being a hawk means she is just another mainstream Republican. Thus, the only reason to dislike Palin any more than any other Republican hawk is out of the culture war.

It is not the criticism that is the problem. It is the criticism that is directed at Palin and no one else that is the problem. Nick Gillespie just listed Christ Christie as Libertarian friendly in an article ripping on Palin. You don't think that is a double standard?

[Emmerson Biggins]

Accurate summary, Irish.

[DK]

I think Nick is angling to be invited back on Maher's show.

[Calidissident]

I think people are making way too big a deal about the Palin criticism. I had more of a problem with the Cruz criticism. Not the fact that he was criticized, but he way Gillespie went about it. I'm not saying Cruz is a libertarian or that all libertarians must support him (or even that I'd vote for the guy), but he's quite easily better than the vast majority of Congress, and would be far from the first example of someone in Congress who libertarians should avoid supporting or working with. And I really don't know what the fuck Nick was saying in that line about Jindal, Rubio, and Christie. While he doesn't state it explicitly, in context, it sounds like he's saying those guys are more libertarian than Cruz, which is nonsense. If that's not what he meant, it was poorly written, and I'm not sure why he would even need to mention those guys in that case. What's odd is Reason has been critical of all of those guys in the past. At the same time, I don't know if I necessarily buy the narrative John and others are pushing that Gillespie hates Palin because she's not a big city kind of person. Rand Paul, Thomas Massie, and Justin Amash hardly exemplify cosmopolitanism, and he praised all three of those guys in this very article.

[Calidissident]

The "he" in the second line should be "the"

[GILMORE]

"" he's quite easily better than the vast majority of Congress""

Neither here nor there, me having an extremely low opinion of all politicians by default....

But saying, "better than most of congress" is like, "AIDS=better than leprosy"

As Hank Paulson sayeth, ""Better' is not necessarily 'Good'"

[John]

He was just trolling. There is no way in hell Gillesbie would point to Jindal or Rubio as Libertarian under any other context. Rubio is Mr. Everify for God's sake. Jindal as point out above is a SOCON's SOCON. And Christie doesn't even pass the laugh test.

[Killazontherun]

Palin is red meat for the Huffpos. The last thing they need is an after super tummy rub that makes them feel good about themselves. Then to throw Cruz in there is just to offer them a Pavlovian doggy snack that reinforces their bad behavior of shitting on everything that is productive in life. NGs article did libertarianism no fucking good whatsoever.

[John]

yeah. The typical Huffpo reader is Tony. They have had a hard few weeks. The NSA thing has really put a dent in their smugness. Nick no doubt went there to cheer them up a little.

[Tony]

Sorry John, looks like you're far from the only one.

Yeah this place is totally anti-partisan and hates TEAMS and their talking head semifunctional gobbledygook machines of theocratic warmongering fuckstickiness. Yeeeeah. You all should look at what you have done and be ashamed.

[David Emami]

I've been in an actual theocracy, Tony -- in fact, I was there to see Iran change into one in '79. So whenever someone like you cries "theocrat" about anyone besides the Christian Reconstructionists/Dominion Theologians like Gary North, it sounds incredibly, hilariously, ridiculously silly.

[Tony]

Well it's a fucking Dada exhibit that Sarah Palin has a TV platform at all, so I guess it's ridiculousness all around.

[David Emami]

No, the ridiculousness is highly concentrated in whatever location you're at.

"Fiscally conservative, socially liberal" may be a reasonable rule of thumb for what a libertarian is, but that doesn't mean both sides of that coin are equally important. The government is bleeding the economy to death and the environmentalists are strangling it to death. Until those problems are fixed, I couldn't care less about gay marriage, abortion, or the like. And on those things that objectively matter, Palin is very much in line with the libertarian position.

[Tony]

The government is bleeding the economy to death and the environmentalists are strangling it to death.

Mindless slogans. I can see why you like her.

[David Emami]

Accurate descriptions. I can see why you don't want to address my arguments.

[Tony]

That being said, every time Palin opens her mouth, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and Hillary Clinton smile just a little.

The size of the electorate that considers Palin an idiot, and will always consider her an idiot, is bigger even than her hair. Eventually, John, being turned into a walking delusion by cable news means you start losing elections.

[John]

Tell us more about how those green energy project were going to end unemployment Tony. Tell us about how the stimulus was going to keep unemployment from going above 8.1%. Tell us about how Obamacare was going to bend the cost curve and save the country from bankruptcy. And how banning guns will prevent gun crimes.

You know, all of that highly intelligent stuff you and your ilk believe in. You know that stuff that shows the world how smart you are.

[Tony]

Tell us more about your party's no ideas whatsoever about anything.

Oh, I stand corrected. Today is "abortion is bad" day. Tomorrow perhaps, "Mexicans are bad."

[John]

Yes Tony, believing in completely idiotic shit that has bankrupted the country and kept us in a depression, is the height of intelligence.

There is a reason why obama won low information voters by 20 points. Stupid sells.

[Tony]

believing in completely idiotic shit that has bankrupted the country and kept us in a depression, is the height of intelligence.

As you have repeatedly tried to claim.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

As you have repeatedly tried to claim

You've never proven otherwise.

[Joe Durnavich]

Who really cares what the electorate thinks, Tony? Sure, they might not elect Palin, but what about how the government should be governed? Wasn't Palin on the right track throughout her career?

http://www.israpundit.com/archives/50836

I'm from Illinois where we have to throw about every other governor it seems in the slammer. We shouldn't have to put up with this, especially when Palin has shown how easy it is to govern wisely. Other politicians should be able to easily meet and surpass the standards she has set.

[Clich? Bandit]

Well, sure glad I decided to wade through this pile of moose shit.

[Clich? Bandit]

to clarify I mean this entire thread.

[Isaac Bartram]

Reason had fucking kittens because Palin was once seen at a church service with a guy who claimed to do exorcisms.

No, actually she received a witch repelling anointing from a guy who hunts witches in Kenya.

Exorcism is goofy enough but believing in witchcraft is outright idiotic.

I actually do not believe that SP is stupid, in fact I believe she is likely very intelligent. Her business and political career suggest that.

However seeing some of the things that she claims to believe and the things she doesn't seem to know indicate to me that she is somewhat intellectually lazy.

[Isaac Bartram]

Sara's witch repelling anointing.

[Kreel Sarloo]

Hey buddy, I bet she hasn't been hexed by any wiches since.

Whadya say to that?????...huh?...huh???

[Eduard van Haalen]

"Her greatest hypocrisy is pretending that she isn't a witch."

[Jayburd]

Katie Couric

[Emmerson Biggins]

I think intellectually lazy is a good way to put it. I don't think she is stupid either. I think her basic instincts are better than those of most knuckleheads in DC. But I just dont think she has done the reading to the point where she can argue enough of her stuff from first principles.

[Robert]

I'm trying to figure out her gesture and what's meant by using that shot. Is she likening herself to college athletes who are taking an extra year to finish so they'll be more mature during their playing years? Or is she likening herself to sacrificial characters from Star Trek?

[Audrey the Liberal]

No.

[Jackojj]

"newfound libertarianism"?

Nick got is wrong.
--------------

Sarah Palin has always been a Libertarian leaning Conservative.

"The Libertarian Case for Palin." By David Harsanyi.

http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....palin.html
------------

Also Nick Gillespie wrote a inaccurate article about Sarah Palin's record of accomplishment.

In the following article (based on facts!) you read about her executive experience.

'Who Is the Real Sarah Palin?'

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-G.....arah-palin

[MachineGunBodine]

"Fortunately for libertarian-minded voters, Palin and Cruz are hardly the only fishes in the sea. As the recent report on young voters from the College Republican National Committee pointed out, the GOP is flush with next-generation leaders, among them Chris Christie, Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal."

Chris Christie, Marco Rubio and Bobby Jindal???

Gillespie, what an aging, poseur douche-bag you are. You make John McCain look like an honest power broker. Get a makeover suitable to your real age and quit pretending you are anything other than a status-seeking pos with no real principles other than rent-seeking. Pathetic.

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[Bruce Majors]

She's still prettier than most people who write for reason. Don't be so jealous.