Feds Save Beer Drinkers from the Possibility of Slightly Increased Prices


On Friday, the Department of Justice called off its antitrust case against Anheuser-Busch InBev (ABI), which had been poised to take over Grupo Modelo, the Mexico-based brewer of Corona. ABI will still take over most of Modelo, but the rights to sell the company's brands in the U.S will be turned over to an independent company, Constellation.

The move means instead of two massive brewers (ABI and MillerCoors), a large brewer (Heineken), and over 2,000 small brewers, the U.S. will now be served by two massive brewers, two large brewers (Modelo—now Constellation—controls seven percent of the U.S. market), and over 2,000 small brewers. According to the DOJ, this is a big victory for competition.

From the DOJ's press release:

As originally proposed, [the merger] would substantially lessen competition in the market for beer…. The department alleged that the transaction would result in consumers paying more for beer and would limit innovation in the beer market.

"This is a win for the $80 billion U.S. beer market and consumers," said Bill Baer, Assistant Attorney General in charge of the Department of Justice's Antitrust Division. "If this settlement makes just a one percent difference in prices, U.S. consumers will save almost $1 billion a year."

Sources not close to the investigation contend, however, that competition and innovation were not really in peril. These sources are the multitudinous plethora of arrays of delicious beers available pretty much freaking everywhere.

Of course, taxes account for about 45 percent of the cost of beer, so if the federal government was really interested in saving consumers some coin they could always relax the excise tax (which comes to $7.00 on each of the first 60,000 barrels produced and $18 per barrel after that). Or perhaps the DOJ could look into breaking up state-level wholesaling cartels, which have a government-granted stranglehold on supply chains.

Last month, Reason contributor Baylen Linnekin covered some of the regulatory challenges craft brewers face. Sadly, lack of corporate welfare does not seem to be one of those challenges. That story is over at The New School. H/T: Jacob Grier.


NEXT: Peter Suderman on Brian K. Vaughan's Brilliant New Digital Comic, The Private Eye

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. Brody. I can see what your saying… Earl`s blog is amazing, last friday I got themselves a Jaguar E-type since getting a cheque for $4865 this-past/five weeks and-in excess of, ten grand this past month. this is certainly my favourite job Ive ever had. I actually started five months/ago and straight away startad bringin home at least $87 per-hr. I work through this link
    (Go to site and open “Home” for details)

    1. The only person who’s a bigger moron than Brody is Earl. I don’t know how you can read his blog without puking all over your internet browser.

      1. And this most be some sort of furriner; “cheque”?!

        1. They don’t use checks any more in some European countries.

      2. Dumb question- if you actually go to one of these sites, is the “money making” scheme a fee for successfully posting spam in comments sections? 0.0001 cents per click or something? I remember the old ads in classified sections for stuffing envelopes, where apparently you stuff them with ads for piecework stuffing envelopes.

        Is it spam all the way down?

    2. At least the E-type is more believable than the Buggati from a few days back.

  2. Meanwhile the states authorize some of the most corrupt monopolies imaginable in the alcohol distributing business.

    1. It would be bad for competition if more than one company was allowed to distribute the alcohol!

      1. It would hurt quality. do you want people buying from cut rate low end distributors? I didn’t think so.

        1. More than one also stretches too thin the federal inspectors who keep us safe.

    2. Indeed. The focus on competition is the in the wrong place.

      The reason why the big guys have kept merging is precisely because the market has shifted away from the huge brands (though the big brewers also have come up with their own craft beer like beers, which isn’t a bad thing either.)

      1. Not true.

        The big guys merging preceded the craft era. It was an ongoing trend of industrial era beer. It took about 100 years in pretty orderly progression to go from 2000 breweries to 10. Then 25 years to go from 10 to 2000 in the information age.

        1. It’s amazing how far-reaching the effects of prohibition have been.

    3. Yup. And more importantly, the only stable and consumer-harming monopolies are State monopolies.

      Any monopoly without the power of coercion behind it is simply “efficient” – if it isn’t, it gets competed out of monopoly status.

  3. As originally proposed, [the merger] would substantially lessen competition in the market for beer…. The department alleged that the transaction would result in consumers paying more for beer and would limit innovation in the beer market.


    1. It is not like people can make beer at home or there are not lots of small breweries operating all over the country as restaurants or anything.

      1. you need the states permission to sell it

      2. Last night I ran out of beer a little before I wanted to head out to the bar, because I already drank the 3 beers I had from all different companies. Then I remembered that I had a 12 pack of homebrew under my bed, so I grabbed one of those to use on the walk to the bar (I figured the cops were going to be lenient on the public drinking laws last night).

        Also, I realized I left those ones carbonating too long.

        1. And here I was hoping those beers would explode under the bed from carbonating too long.

          (Not while you were in bed, of course.)

        2. I’ve never heard of allowing beer to carbonate too long–bottle conditioning for months and even years massively helps most homebrews.

          I’d say you either didn’t give the yeast enough time, your yeast crapped out on you, or you overprimed your bottles.

          1. I’ve had about 30 from the same batch, which I consumed a few months ago. They were all carbonated perfectly.

            1. yea, if they blow up, get ’em in a fridge. If not, they’re fine.

              Protip: if they’re blowing up, get motorcycle helmet and snowmobile gloves to deal with it. You can’t go tooo cheap on the gloves.

            2. Okay, so you had a rogue bottle that overflowed when you opened it? That happens to me now and then, and I’m careful about my handling and temperature, so I don’t think those are the issue. I don’t think it’s carbonating too long, as the yeast can’t do anything once it’s done with the priming sugar and any residual yeast.

              I’ve never discussed it in any home brew forums, but I think that when this happens, I’ve probably not mixed the simple syrup solution as well as I should. Or maybe the bottle somehow isn’t as cold as the others despite my best efforts.

              Beer remains one of life’s great, pleasant mysteries.

              1. Sometimes it just has to do with something peculiar to the given batch… we had an entire batch of bud clone that would completely turn to foam when you removed the cap. Not explosively, more like a slow-mo coke and mentos.

                Our best guess was that it had something to do with nucleation in the bottle, as the beer was slightly cloudy.

      3. As I type this, there are 2 meads (one regular and one braggot) and an imperial wheat carbonating and/or aging behind me. There may be a Gumball Head hiding in there as well.

        Tell me again how this merger would ruin my life?

        1. Gumballs and beer? Eeewww.

  4. Am I really supposed to believe the DOJ cares that I would be paying more for my beer?

    1. Oh they care. Just not in the same way you would care.

    1. Larouche? ugh.

      1. That’s a pretty reputable source, huh?

        1. No worse than Hercules Triathlon Savinen.


              1. NOT [ENOUGH] CAPS!!!

  5. Maybe they should break up the monopoly on misogynist Super Bowl commercials. #waronwomen

    1. I thought most commercials these days were anti-men, anyhow.

    2. Hey, what ever happened with that war? Who won?

      1. Do you still have a penis? If so, then the war continues.

        1. Where was it they were “encouraging” men to sit and pee?

          I only do that when I’m too hammered to hit the target.

          1. Where was it they were “encouraging” men to sit and pee?

            I only do that when I’m too hammered to hit the target.

            I find you only get about 1/2 the pee out if you are sitting. Gravity is your friend when standing.

            You’ll all understand when you get a prostate!

            /cranky old guy

            1. Oh we grow those later? Phew, I was worried that I should see my doctor about my lack of a prostate.

            2. Considering it’s the genitalia doing double duty in both genders, it’s sensible that the best urination position is going to resemble the best sex position.

              1. So Upside Down Shattered Chandelier, then?

              2. God is a civil engineer.

          2. Germany.

        2. Very well, onward and upward!

    1. And keep saying “too fat. Next.”

      1. So the talent scout is Sarcasmic?

    2. Wow. Considering its Sweden I wonder if it is true. I’d bet the clinic manufactured the allegations to get more publicity. The truth is always subordinated to the cause with these feminazi types. I was reading in that website how the Swedish beer monopoly refused to allow a danish beer to be imported because the bottle was “too sexy.”

      Systembolaget reasoned that sexual success can not be associated with drinking beer, or as Paps? put it: “You can’t score a girl by drinking yourself drunk”.

      Totally untrue of course, drinking beer helps many men get over approach anxiety. But this is Sweden, the land where everything is rape and where multiculturalism is strong.

      1. “There’s been a flood of calls and emails from Swedes who think the decision is ridiculous, and they’ve been ordering copies of the uncensored beer from here in Denmark,” he told The Local.

        Sweden to implement border inspections for too-sexy contraband.

        Meanwhile in Denmark:

        Sex is allowed in the park.
        But show respect!
        A lot of kindergartens, etc. are using the park

  6. I don’t think an income of $87/hr is enough to keep an E-type on the road, pal. You definitely should invest in a AAA membership.

    1. Sure it is. You just can only drive it on Sundays, when its not raining and never at night.

  7. “If this settlement makes just a one percent difference in prices, U.S. consumers will save almost $1 billion a year.”

    Just imagine how much money could have been saved by cutting those armies of attorneys and lobbyists out of the deal.

    1. If this settlement makes just a one percent difference in prices, U.S. consumers will save almost $1 billion a year, nearly offsetting the amount spent in DC during the preparation and approval of this communique.

      1. Entirely coincidentally, Adolphus Busch IV publicly withdrew his membership from the NRA, citing their failure to support the eminently reasonable gun control legislation before the Senate, on Thursday.

          1. And nothing. Other than the next day the antitrust action against Anheuser Busch was dropped by the Justice Department. Entirely coincidentally.

    2. Who would build the roa–err, highly manipulated beer cartels?

  8. Speaking of beer. A guy I know was all up in arms recently, because he saw a Leinenkugel ad on the teevee, and when he investigated(!) via the Great and Powerful Wiki he made the horrifying discovery that they are “owned” by Miller. This, of course, could only mean one thing, in the dark underworld of dastardly corporate skullduggery.

    The beer they sell is MILLER with a fake “Leinenkugel” label!

    I don’t think they are really “owned” by Miller, I think it’s a contract brewing arrangement. And, the recipe is what matters, not who owns the fucking tanks.

    1. According to the interwebs, they are a wholly owned subsidiary of Miller. But all that may mean is that it is a craft beer with the ability to be distributed nationally.

      1. Leinenkugel sucks! What BS mixing lemonade with beer. When it comes to beer the hippies are 100% right, small and local is the way to go, big corporations suck at making beer. It’s like Denny’s vs the local diner.

        1. Sometimes you want to drink 24 beers in an afternoon, without being shitshow hammered. Can make for a nice summer day.

          That being said, while tarnishing my libertarian/ancap credentials, the one law I can deal with and get behind is the Reinheitsgebot.

          Screw the honey and molasses. If you’re putting honey in it, just make a mead (sparkling!). If you’re putting molasses in it, just make a rum.

          Tonight, though, it’s Negroni, Fat Tire (grilling), Pinot, Pinot (present time). Future entails whiskey drinks, maybe gin drinks.

          1. “Tonight, though, it’s Negroni, Fat Tire (grilling), Pinot, Pinot (present time). Future entails whiskey drinks, maybe gin drinks.”

            I am kind of liking your batting order there!

    2. Leinie’s has been owned by Miller since the 1960s, although I believe the brewery was allowed to operate more or less independently. Not sure what the deal is with all the weird flavored beers being sold under the Leinie’s label the past few years.

      1. Chicks love it. Summer Shandy gets downed by the case by many women I know. I will smile and have one with them, then look for the Two Brother’s Domain DuPage.

      2. It is Miller’s attempt at “crafty” beer.

        Coors (which in the US is part of MillerCoors) is doing the best of the big boys with the Blue Moon line.

        But Blue Moon is still a mediocre wit.

        1. coors can brew a decent beer. It’s just that they are their test brews that never make past the employee store. I have inlaws that work for coors and they usually have a fridge stocked with the specialty stuff when I visit. Sure, it’s no Pliny but it’s drinkable.

          1. Every one of the big guys can brew a great beer if they wanted.

            The brewers that work for them are some of the best in the field.

            What they cant brew is a great beer that also impacts their bottom line in any significant way.

  9. And here I was hoping those beers would explode under the bed from carbonating too long.

    *Forwards comment excitedly to Janet Napolitano*

  10. Sweet. GP2 race is on.

  11. Okay, this is pretty funny.

    Westboro Baptist Church’s Facebook page hit by Anonymous hackers

    Hackers from the group Anonymous have claimed responsibility for an attack on Westboro Baptist Church’s Facebook page as retribution for the group’s call to picket and protest funerals for the Boston bombing victims.

    1. If Muslim nutcases really are intent on blowing shit up in this country, can’t they make a stop at the WBC? They are the infidel right? You will get your 72 virgins for blowing that place up. And it would do more to legitimize the Islamist cause than anything done in the last 500 years.

      1. Seriously. I mean…if they attacked a WBC protest in Texas, and didn’t kill any bystanders, I bet a halfway decent lawyer could get them off with a “they needed killin'” defense.

        1. Would there even be an investigation? Maybe a ticket issued for littering?

          1. It would be what we refer to in the trade as a “misdemeanor homicide”

            1. It would be what we refer to in the trade as a “misdemeanor homicide”

              So, when a cop does it?

              Oh, wait, silly me… that’d just be a citation.

              1. har har.

                When a cop does it , it is ALMOST ALWAYS justified.

                Despite the reasonoid hysteria.

                Speaking of that, I have interviews with a defense attorney on Monday for a homicide. I LOVE being interviewed by defense attorneys. Court testimony is even more fun. I love my job.

                I know defense attorneys have a bad rap, but I tend to really like them. They have a difficult job and most of them seem to pretty good guys/gals. I actually enjoy when they go into strident strenuous objection mode.


                1. When a cop does it , it is ALMOST ALWAYS justified.


                2. That’s some grade A comedy right there.

                3. i have a buddy that is a dfense attorney in LA. Boy howdy does he have some funny stories about clients. I guess you have to have a sense of humor when you defend the top of the evolutionary ladder. lol

        2. Bystanders? If you hang around with bad guys, you’re fair game too, or so I’m told.

      2. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

    2. Calling ‘Anonymous’ “hackers” is an insult to real computer programmers everywhere. Most of their “hacks” are merely “let’s all click on their page at the same time.” Next they’ll fill someone’s comments with spam and call it “hacking.”

      1. Yeah, but cut the journalists some slack. I don’t think developers (happens to be what I do) in general are offended by such lack of technical understanding. Users are supposed to use their machines; if we find that they need to know too much about them, technically, that should really be taken as indication that we’re not doing our jobs properly.

        1. developers (happens to be what I do)

          Well, your nick is pretty suggestive.

          1. Nice catch, that completely slipped my mind.

  12. Or perhaps the DOJ could look into breaking up state-level wholesaling cartels, which have a government-granted stranglehold on supply chains.

    This would do more to lower prices and increase competition/”consumer choice”.Having a distribution monopoly is a license to collect taxes for yourself.

  13. According to the interwebs, they are a wholly owned subsidiary of Miller. But all that may mean is that it is a craft beer with the ability to be distributed nationally.

    That makes sense. It would also provide them with the capital to go national. I have always thought of them as a fairly small midwestern beer.

  14. I’ll stick with my hard cider, thankyouverymuch.

    1. Today is 420 and we are discussing BEER (and cider)? 🙂

      Granted, it’s never a bad time to talk about beer.

      I’m not sure what’s going to happen tonight, but where I’m working tonight we have the combination of

      1) a Saturday night
      2) 420
      3) legal marijuana
      4) general sense of “feeling good” as a nation due to the capture of the outstanding terrorist

      I wouldn’t be surprised if contact highs are going to be had on the first few details I go to tonight, there is going to be so much smokage and celebration due to this perfect storm of excuses to PARTY!

      Btw, I fucking love hard cider.

      And I guess we should (god forbid I am saying this) propose a toast to Jimmy Carter of all people for legalizing home brewing. Guy did ONE thing right.

      1. Only one? Airline deregulation, interstate trucking deregulation, appointing Volcker to the Fed chairmanship, deterring swamp rabbit attacks… give the man some credit.

        1. Yea, I forgot about the rabbit stuff. That was awesome.

          Oh, and Billy Beer

      2. I wouldn’t be surprised if contact highs are going to be had on the first few details I go to tonight, there is going to be so much smokage and celebration due to this perfect storm of excuses to PARTY!

        Eat drink and be merry, sheeple, for tomorrow we deflate.

    2. This explains so much.

      1. More things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio

        1. In all serious have you gotten into microbrew cider at all? A few have popped up here in Texas. Not my bag so I haven’t tried it. I figure it is a future growth area. I wish liquor regulations weren’t so fucked up because microdistillaries would certainly be growing much faster.

          1. I have tried a whole bunch of ciders. I pretty much just pull it off the shelf, so I am sure some qualified as micros. I’ve made my own, too. One hot summer , purely by accident, when I was a long haired surfer type I had some unpasteurized cider I left in my trunk and booom – HARD CIDER.

            1. Sounds like how I discovered the wonders of cottage cheese.

              1. This is how our ancestors discovered all kinds of crazy shit.

                1. If I had a time machine, my tenth or eleventh stop would have to be at the exact moment that someone discovered the process of making beer. It’s not hard to see how wines became popular, especially in the millennia prior to refrigeration, but I’d like to meet the ancient genius who decided to take germinated grain, malt it at just the right stage, then wait, then crush it, then soak it in water at just the right temperature to prevent the tannin leech that can make beer undrinkable… The man has contributed more to the human race than anyone this side of Spinoza.

                  (I know that beer’s creation in every culture was probably an evolutionary process involving dumb luck, centuries of partial screw ups and foul brews, and many generations of grain farmers. But if there had been a single creator who stumbled onto how to make beer, I’d still like to have met him)

                  1. My first stop would be to the eruption of Mt Vesuvius in 70 AD.

                    My second stop would be to the same place, when I would run up to myself from the first stop and throw me into the lava.

                    My third stop would be …. again, same place, run up to myself from the second stop and throw me into the lava before I could throw the first stop me into the lava.

                    And pretty much going on from there, giving the finger to causality all the way. Yeah!

                    1. It’s Tulpas all the way down.

                    2. See, that’s why you’re a thinker and I’m a people-person.

                    3. Before you run out, don’t forget to properly secure that time machine if it has the ability to travel more than 49 years at a time. Leaving one of those lying around is just irresponsible.

          2. You may be on to something according to this article.

            Hard cider could be the next ‘hot’ microbrew

            1. Yeah. Here’s a local Houston guy who hit the wave early. He couldn’t even own the business when he started because he wasn’t 21 yet.

              Reminds me of starting brewing when I was 19. I could brew all I wanted but wasn’t supposed to be drinking it. Our legal system hasn’t gotten so retarded.

  15. Ooh, my little pretty one, pretty one –
    When you gonna give me some time Corona!
    Ooh you make my motor run, my motor run –
    Gun it coming off of the line Corona!
    Never gonna stop, give you up – such a dirty mind,
    Always get it up for the touch of the younger kind
    My, my, my, my oh Woo!
    Ma ma ma ma Carona!

  16. OT:…..BOSTON.JPG

    Look at those fuckers. They’re dressed for warfare.

    1. His assault weapon frightens me. I think we should ban it.

    1. When this guy becomes a professor before the end of the decade, let the record show I called it first.

  17. Sounds liek a very solid plan to me dude. Wow.

  18. OT:…..ple-image/

    Blogger purports to debunk libertarianism in general and Rand Paul specifically with a single image.

    Well, that’s it. I guess we should drop this libertarian foolishness and support the drug and drone wars.

    1. Evil, stupid people doing stupid, evil things for their only evil, stupid reason: money.

      “So you think that money is the root of all evil? Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can’t exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?”

      1. You think that guy seriously knows the history and function of money?

        I’m reminded of when Picard says in Star Trek: First Contact that “money doesn’t exist in the 24th century.” It sounds good to a brain dead, most likely liberal, Hollywood screenwriter, but the logic behind such a statement is astoundingly stupid when you actually think about it.

        1. The Marxist anti-utopia of the Picard-era Federation makes me cringe every single time any thought about it enters my mind. The sheer asininity of the very idea boggles the mind.

          1. “When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns?or dollars. Take your choice?there is no other?and your time is running out.”

          2. To be fair we saw very little of civilian life or politics in the Federation in any of the Star Trek series. Characterizing the Federation by what you see in ST would be like characterizing the US from a documentary on nuclear subs.

            1. I was under the impression that in Star Trek, you either went school to become a scientist or artist, Starfleet Medical to become a physicians, or Starfleet Academy or enlistment to become a military personnel.

              I like to think that in the 24th century, if you put down that you want to study business in school, the Federation will either send you to re-education camps or worse.

              1. We of course know that if you wish to live off the grid on a colony on the outskirts of Federation space, Picard will forcibly remove your ass and give your home to the Cardassians.

                1. Everything we saw pointed to the Federation being totalitarian. Fuck TNG.

                2. By the way, I wish to coin “Turberville’s Law” which states that any comment discussion about the evils of a supposed benevolent, socialist state must inevitably result in a reference to Star Trek, specifically TNG.

                  1. Remember all those sweeping shots of the San Francisco skyline and the Golden Gate Bridge, with nothing, ever, but a single Starfleet shuttle landing or taking off?

                    Reminds me of a desolate, utterly decayed Soviet/North Korean street. How very utopian.

                    Once again — fuck TNG and its pinko creator.

                    1. Yeah, The Original Series depicted a Cold War era, militarized communist state. It was the crushing cost of the Soviet Union’s massive military budget in the 1980s that convinced Roddenberry to explore the non-military aspects of Federation society.

                    2. …Perhaps, also, disillusionment with Soviet idealism, after the failed imperial war against Afghanistan.

                    3. TOS had plenty of pro-American nuggets thrown into it. I bet that made Roddenberry pissy.

                    4. TOS had plenty of pro-American nuggets thrown into it. I bet that made Roddenberry pissy.

                      Roddenberry wasn’t a radical Trotskyist. He was just a New Deal, American Greatness-type.

                    5. I’m sure that’s true, but he honestly could’ve fooled me.

                      Either way, the episode where Picard explains the Constitution to elitist aliens is one of its best moments.

                    6. Brain fatigue = huge fuck-ups inevitable. Sorry. *Kirk, not Picard.

                    7. Roddenberry was a time of his time. He was an Army Aviator and part of the “Greatest Generation”. So, yes, his head was full of that New Deal, 4-freedoms crap. However, he also strongly believed in the American ideal of equality of opportunity, and fought a one-man crusade to fight Hollywood’s racist attitudes. So I got to give him props for that.

                      He was also a strong proponent of the miniskirt.

                    8. Roddenberry wasn’t a radical Trotskyist. He was just a New Deal, American Greatness-type.

                      I noticed this watching some of the episodes of Have Gun Will Travel that he wrote.

                      The extent to which the New Deal was the civic religion of the USA in the fifties and sixties can be seen in the TV of the age.

                  2. So noted.

                    Carry on, sir.

              2. Yeah, pretty much everyone from the Federation worlds in the series is some kind of scientist, diplomat, or aristocrat (Troi’s mother). Picard’s brother is one exception; I can’t imagine why anyone would be a farmer in an age of replicators though.

                1. I can’t imagine why anyone would be a farmer in an age of replicators though.


                  In a gift economy where anything can be replicated, artisanal products would be a highly-sought after item, and would raise the status of the producer and whomever he or she gifts it to.

            2. Did we watch the same shows, or were the ones you remember actually from a parallel universe?

          3. A lot of people aren’t aware of the political message behind Star Trek. The “federation” was a metaphor for the UN. They even admitted that the purpose of one episode was to support race mixing.

            1. They even admitted that the purpose of one episode was to support race mixing.

              *gasp*…..the horror!

              1. Oooh, make it compulsory – there are several women of other “races” I wouldn’t mind “mixing” with – but the wife might get a bit peeved about it.

        2. Haha I doubt it, but the quote I posted is almost a perfect reply to his idiotic comment.

        3. Actually the “Federation doesn’t use money” thing came from what Captain Kirk said during his date with the 1980s woman in Star Trek 4. Picard’s statement in STFC was just keeping the canon intact.

          1. Didn’t he take her out for beer and pizza? Could you ask for a better date from William Shatner?

      2. I signed up and posted this as a reply to the comment in that link. It is currently awaiting approval by the site moderator. We’ll see if it is accepted.

        1. “Moderated” comments. WTF?

          1. I know, what does that even mean?

            For a site called Free Thought Blogs…

            1. You are free to echo our opinions

        2. Comment passed moderation.

        3. Hey, your comment was posted and you received a reply!

          1. franciscodanconia:

            Spare us the moralizing.

            Money is a tool. Like any tool people can use it for good or for ill. Unlike other tools, though, people are prepared to do evil just to get more of it.

            Money isn’t special, except it is, because it’s EVIL.

            1. C’mon, the invisible hand of the market will make it economically unfeasable for people to build schools near explosive plants in the future. Problem solved!

              The ignorance on display is incredible.

              And someone’s brilliant commentary on Atlas Shrugged:

              Francisco d’Anconia is a character in Ayn Rand’s novel “Atlas Shrugged”, a novel about how the bourgeoisie (governments and “moochers” and “looters”) are so, so mean to the proletariat (heroic business leaders, the real producers of society).

              Seems like another guy who has never read Atlas Shrugged other than what some proglodyte wrote about it on some blog.

            2. Fuck, I gotta close that page. The derp is unbelievable.

              1. It’s getting bad. They are freaking out over the AS quote. None of them have realized that it is a quote from the book even though someone has pointed out that Francisco d’Anconia is a character from the book.

                1. Take my link and go back and post the whole speech.

            3. True statement that doesn’t fit well within a scriptural verse or a bumper sticker: “Power differential and coercive means are strongly correlated with all evil.”

              1. Someone brought up the idea that Rand was misquoting the Bible by attacking the argument that “money is the root of all evil” without realizing that:
                1) Much of society has adopted the misquoted phrase, and
                2) Rand anticipates that objection and attacks the source phrasing later in the same monologue:

                Or did you say it’s the love of money that’s the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It’s the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money?and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it. Let me give you a tip on a clue to men’s characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it. Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil.

      3. You bring a tear to my eye Joe.

        In its entirety.

        1. Aww yes, sorry I did not quote you on that 😉

    2. Have progressives always been this mentally retarded, or has the plague that is progressivism simply been getting worse and worse?

      1. It started off bad, then it got worse.

    3. Steven Andrew is a struggling free lance writer, who supports his blogging habit with a job in the software development industry, and a regular contributor to the popular progressive website Daily Kos.

      What? How could he be struggling?!

      1. He doesn’t have a mansion and a garage full of vintage sports cars. He is, therefore, an underprivileged little flower, under permanent exploitation by the bourgeois.

    4. What a dumb piece of shit.

      Although some homes were close by when the fertilizer facility opened, a subdivision, schools and a nursing home were built near the plant in subsequent years.


      So, why’d the local gov’t build a school there?


        1. Eventually, the government relocated more than 800 families and reimbursed them for their homes, and the United States Congress passed the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act (CERCLA), or the Superfund Act. Because the Superfund Act contained a “retroactive liability” provision, Occidental was held liable for cleanup of the waste even though it had followed all applicable U.S. laws when disposing of it. In 1994, Federal District Judge John Curtin ruled that Hooker/Occidental had been negligent, but not reckless, in its handling of the waste and sale of the land to the Niagara Falls School Board.[33] Curtin’s decision also contains a detailed history of events leading up to the Love Canal disaster. Occidental Petroleum was sued by the EPA and in 1995 agreed to pay $129 million in restitution.[34] Residents’ lawsuits were also settled in the years following the Love Canal disaster.[35]

          What the fuck?!

          1. you caught the part about how the chem company didn’t want to sell the property to the school board, but eventually did for a buck, under threat of eminent domain, right?

            It’s really an awesome story, in the terrifying sense.

            1. Yeah, that is why the lawsuit portion is so WTF.

      2. Texas fertilizer plant also stored explosive chemical used in Oklahoma City bomb

        That is the stupidest fucking headline I’ve read in a long while. Of course it’s from NBC.

        Tonight at 11: Your kitchen also stores a dangerous chemical responsible for several drownings!

        1. Yeah I kinda facepalmed at that.

    5. If only there had been even a single libertarian who was wise enough to consider such a scenario unfolding in our ludicrous scheme of strong property rights and non-aggression.

      Thankfully there are men with guns to tell everyone what to do and ensure that we avoid becoming Somalia. If you can’t fix it with a hammer, you’ve got an electrical problem.

      1. What does he think? That people are free to choose where they live and send their kids to school?

        1. No, he thinks the gov’t bureaucrats who decided to build two schools next to the plant should make those decisions for us plebes.

          1. They just didn’t have top men worthy of the responsibility of government work on the job when that happened.

            Once we have more New Sovie–uh, New American Multiculturalists with pure hearts and noble intentions dictating where everyone lives and works via central planning, life will be utopi–er, ideal.

    6. I’ve seen it multiple times that this was a perfect example of “Texas’s infamous lack of zoning laws.” Which is of course horseshit. Houston is famous for it’s lack of zoning laws but the rest of Texas is just like any other state.

      1. And of course seen people saying “see what the free market brings! a school next to a fertilizer plant!” Yeah the fucking free market is responsible for the fucking government putting a school next to the plant.

        1. It’s probably one of those icky local governments controlled by corporate interests.

          Welcome to the United States of AmeriKKKa, where KOCH BROTHER and STEVE JoBS control KKKORPORATE AREA 51 9/11 INSIDE JOB QW4#$ ASASASASAFAS

          /Liberal asshat

          1. I dunno, many lefties love to ignore the actions of Steve Jobs that, if undertaken by someone else, they would deride as crimes.

            1. Because how would they blog about the evils of capitalism if they didn’t have iPads, dude?

          2. West, Texas, pop. 2807, the center of KKKorporate America.

            1. The plant was probably a monocle-manufacturing facility staffed by child slaves. Its destruction was a righteous act of God against the capitalist disease.

              /Batshit red

    7. Joe Shirederby
      April 20, 2013 at 5:09 pm

      Although some homes were close by when the fertilizer facility opened, a subdivision, schools and a nursing home were built near the plant in subsequent years.

      Joe Shirederby
      April 20, 2013 at 6:38 pm
      So, are any of you interested in addressing my inconvenient statement of fact?

      April 20, 2013 at 6:55 pm
      Which fact is supposed to be inconvenient and why?

      We are sharing oxygen with these people.

  19. It appears the carjack victim left his cell phone in the car when it was carjacked and that is how they tracked the perp into Watertown. That’s the latest scuttle on the intertoobs.

    Be interesting to know if the carjack victim was smaht enough that he left the phone in there on PURPOSE for that reason, or if he just happened to leave it behind. Either way… modern technology. Definitely a boon to law enforcement in many respects.

    1. It helps to have a stupid perp who lets witnesses live when he’s already guaranteed a death sentence.

  20. This seems like as good a place as any to brag about my first all-grain brew (a 9% rauchbier) that I bottled several months ago. When I first tasted it, I thought I’d ruined it, as at three weeks in the bottle it was absolutely undrinkable and had an awful flavor and odor that I can only describe as urinary. Anyway, I had faith and decided to keep it around out of blind faith that time would once again heal all homebrew wounds. After running out of the good winter homebrew a couple of days ago, I decided to give it another go, and it’s fantastic, amazing, a revelation. The lesson here being that you can give up on your children (all disappointments), you can give up on yourself (way past your prime), but never give up on your homebrew.

    Also got in a crate of Bernardus 12 yesterday and have the brew kettle heating this very moment. It’s not quite as good a day as when I got to watch Obama spill his spaghetti and stamp his wittle feet over the Senate’s gun control smackdown, but still, it’s a pretty good day.

    1. Sounds like a helluva day w/ the Abt 12. I’m on my second Port City Maniacal this evening. Paired it with a couple PB&Js;. This crazy bitter (108 IBUs) IPA goes well w/ the sweet grape jelly. If you don’t like hop squeezings, then this probably is not your brew.

      Way to hang in there and not give up on that rauchbier. And glad to hear you switched to AG. A typical homebrew addiction progression will have you milling your own grains in about 9 months.

      I just did the first dry hop of a double dry hopped IBA (aka Cascadian Dark Ale) this afternoon. I’m using Summit so it’s going to be funky.

      1. Abt 12 is probably my favorite beer on the planet, and I haven’t had it for a couple of years due to a move and the residual market damage from prohibition that screws over all beer lovers trapped in the heartland. Thankfully, the Internet shall prevail. Suffice it to say that tonight I’m completely hammered on overpriced pseudo-Trappist ale, which just happens to be my favorite kind of hammered.

        I hadn’t heard of Maniacal prior to your post; I’m beer-nerd enough that I watch all the guys who do video beer reviews of obscure stuff on Youtube, but the proliferation of boutique beers is so great at this point that major players are slipping under my radar left and right. Pretty cool that a beer that just debuted ten days ago is already in your hands, though, and I’m a great one for good IPAs in the late spring and summer. I’ve got a couple of friends in SoCal who ship Pliny to me on a semi-regular basis, and I’ve come to enjoy Palette Wrecker as a decent substitute when I can’t get the RR. Read just now that PW is 149 IBU; hard to believe given that it’s actually drinkable, but Green Flash knows its stuff.

        Good luck with that Cascadian Dark–had to look that one up as well, so looks like you’ve got a leg up on me in cutting-edge HB innovations. We’ll have to organize a Reason bottle exchange at some point, provided that one of us isn’t massively better than the rest and we end up like undergrads in a creative writing class sniping at each other out of jealousy.

        1. After my AG experience, I decided to start growing my own hops this year, with maybe a few rows of barley to follow in a year or two if I’m ambitious; I’ve got an old farm, so there’s plenty of places to string up simple wire trellises. I put in an order for a half dozen rhizomes, so hopefully I’ll have something to work with in a year or two, though I was disappointed that Simcoe is still impossible to get ahold of.

          1. Right, Simcoe? is proprietary. That one plus a handful of others (Citra?) you can’t get the rhizomes.

            robc called the IBA a Cascadian Dark Ale so I’ve adopted the name while posting here.

            1. Yeah, there’s not even a black market for the IP cultivars so far as I can tell. I was surprised given all the hops shortages from last year, as surely someone would meet our needs. Just another market failure.

              Read last night that you can take fresh simcoe hops and use them to “nurse” along a bine tip to develop your own Simcoe clone. The gardener in me is 98% sure that’s an old wives’ tale, as a lot of people into HB envision themselves as 21st-century alchemists.

        2. Green Flash does put out some good beer. They have an imperial stout (can’t recall the name) that was damn delicious.

          1. That’s probably their double stout.

            They don’t bother with creative names, their packaging isn’t flashy, and they’re not high priced like the premium/luxury, but I don’t know that there’s a better brewer in California than Green Flash.

  21. Please help me out here Reasonoides, cuz I’m a loss. My local FB page for the L party was having a discussion broadly about the Boston bombers and I pointed out that Islam is a religion rather than a race and that the two are often conflated for political agendas. That was followed by this:

    “Being on the verge of being deeply offended by your remark I will say this then leave the thread: We do not convert or accept Jews of all nationalities as part of our people for political gain. To believe that shows me that you do not know us as well as you think you do. And if you can’t see this topic as the people who live it see it then you show a refusal to accept an understanding of our beliefs and therefore have no business speaking offhandedly about us as if you are right and there is no other option. As much as I am saddened by the divide that has grown between the people of Islam and my people (we once lived side by side in peace) I respect their base beliefs as parallel to mine. Islamic people the world around are one people. Whether genetic or by faith. Period.”

    Am I out of my mind or is she reasoning that Pan-Islamism is not a political construct?

    1. What does Judaism have to do with it? Islam is a proselytizing religion.

      1. I was wondering, too. I’ve a feeling she’s a Jewish convert to Islam, but I’m not certain.

    2. She’s also telling you that if you disagree with her, you’re an idiot, and have no right to voice your opinion. She’s a censorious asshole.

    3. Is there really a need to respond to this sort of stupidity?

      1. It’s really taken me aback. I’m new in the area (6 mo) and am trying to connect with local Libertarians. There’ve been a few head scratching comments here or there, but this is the first full-blown insanity that I’ve come across. I don’t know enough yet to determine if this is the way they role here, or what. Just threw it up there to make sure I didn’t wake up in an alternate reality today.

        1. Beware of quasi-liberal douchebags clothing themselves in the rhetorical garbs of libertarianism. Those asswipes are a damned blight.

          1. One of problems with libertarianism is that it takes no clear position on personal issues, only on political issues. Thus people who accept political libertarianism but have wildly different personal preferences don’t get along. At one libertarian event I was at a woman gave a long speech on how great it was that “youth” were more “accepting” of miscegenation. I tried to have an intelligent debate with her, but she just yelled “racist” to drown out my voice. One person went on and on about how the “palestianians” were being “oppressed,” and half the group booed him so loud he left in anger. People of greatly different personal views simply aren’t going to get along, even if they accept the same political ideology.

            1. I tried to have an intelligent debate with her, but she just yelled “racist” to drown out my voice.

              What debate is there to be had on miscegenation?

              1. Wait, is this guy seriously arguing that him being opposed to miscegenation is not racism?

                I’m pretty sure ‘it’s wrong to have interracial children’ is pretty fucking racist. I have to go with the woman on this one.

                1. I hope I just misunderstood or he just miswrote, but it does sound like that.

                2. That’s just another of American’s handles, dude. Yes, he is being utterly racist. He’s running under this one and “Conrad” this weekend.

                  1. Sneaky sneaky.

            2. That’s not a problem with libertarianism, libertarianism is just a political philosophy.

              1. It’s SUPPOSED to be just a political philosophy.

            3. Wait, didn’t you just finish saying the palestianians were being oppressed?

            4. The Palestinians ARE being oppressed. Living under Hamas or the Palestinian authority is pretty hellish.

              …or was the guy trying to blame it on the Jews?


        2. but this is the first full-blown insanity that I’ve come across.

          What? Your state Libertarian party hasn’t got at least one person who turned themselves blue from ingesting silver, or something like that?

          1. Well, this is the People’s Republic of Oregon, so I had to assume I would encounter some, but Pan-Islamism was not the form I expected it to take.

          2. I tried ingesting silver once.

            I didn’t turn blue, but my self-worth increased geometrically.

            1. Ok, for that, you get Egyptian T and A.

              1. 311 videos. And here I was about to have a productive evening.

    4. I will say this then leave the thread:

      Oh man, time to go ballistic. Unload, man. You be the Rambo to her comment’s Brian Dennehy’s small town.

      Just let it all out, spare no insult, hold back no punches then when they return to the thread (she will, it’s human nature), innocently say, “I thought you were done with this thread, so I figured I’d be totally honest…”

      Then have a beer and close your facebook account.

  22. DemocRats lately have talked about a possible compromise on immigration. All the illegals given amnesty and, in return, the libs will promise to beef up border security. These are people who blatantly refuse to enforce the law when they are opposed to it, and we are supposed to trust their promise?

    1. Whatever your position on immigration law is, if you expect high-level politicians to keep their promises, you’re in for an unpleasant surprise.

  23. OT:…..BOSTON.JPG

    Look at those fuckers. They’re dressed for warfare.”

    I have mixed feelings. I don’t like the military “look”. I think that you put cops in hardcore military’esque uniforms and it naturally affects behavior. You put them in “soft” friendlier uniforms and the attitude adapts that way also. It’s part of human nature. We play dress-up every time we put on the uniform and it DOES affect the way you act.

    That aside, this guy had already shown he was ready to gun down cops and that he had access to serious firepower and those outfits do one thing very well, and that’s offer protection from gunfire, etc. Iow, most “lethal” areas are covered by ballistic protection with such outfits. Similarly, the ratio of SWAT (and similarly protected by extensive vest/helmet etc.) officers SHOT vs. shot and killed is very high. Iow, with that amount of coverage, it’s MUCH safer. Many shots that would be lethal with a conventional officer uniform (like a lot of headshots) are thwarted by the helmet, etc.

    1. Three members of my unit (when I was in streetcrimes) were shot on a warrant we did, and the dr’s said that if not for the ballistic protection (we wore extended vests with the lower flap, and helmets etc.), 2 out of the 3 shot would have died. Iow, while I don’t like the LOOK, I like the fact that they are far far far less likely to be killed if shot while wearing such a thing.

      Obviously not appropriate for day to day patrol duties, but for a special assignment where you are on a manhunt for a violent terrorist and you already have officers down,etc. a little extra ballistic protection is understandable.

      Having been in lethal fire situation myself, I can tell you wearing only a bulletproof vest you realize how much of your body is exposed and it’s not a good feeling.

      1. Sure. Be nice if the actual military could get that stuff in amounts enough to matter.

      2. Demanding the virtual shutdown of an entire city and deploying a battlefield-armed and armored division to apprehend a single guy just seems so fucking ridiculous.

        1. Imagine what a legitimate sized insurgency would cause?

          1. At this point in our history, an actual insurgency would probably cause the Pentagon to mobilize and operationally federalize the National Guard and institute martial law, with a full suspension of the Constitution also very possible.

            We live in sad times.

            1. I just find it amazing this navel gazing and criticism of an overwhelmingly successful operation. What sad times? We set up a wide and thick net and we caught (one killed one captured) some very bad dudes who had perpetrated a major terrorist act in the city of boston. I just think this germinates from an unwillingness to EVER just say – good job – when it comes to state force. There is a time and a place for state force and this was clearly one of those times. It’s not always a tragedy. It seems to me to be a funhouse version of libertarianism. It’s just ALWAYS gotta be bad when you have such a display of state power, even in situation like this where it was focused, successful, and for a very good cause. How do the people of Boston feel about it? Isn’t that what matters a lot more than some ivory tower navel gazing comments from the outside? From what I have seen the overwhelming attitude among Bostonians is gratitude towards law enforcement and feel good celebration. They don’t see it as sad, and neither do I.

              We didn’t cower in fear because of these terrorists. We went on the attack. that’s not sad. It’s great

              1. We were discussing a theoretical insurgency, not the Boston operation. Or did you miss that part?

              2. The sad times where one person is enough to shut down an entire city? The Boston government certainly had their citizenry cower in fear in their homes. If that’s not a victory for “terror”, I don’t know what is. “Going on the attack” never involves telling people to hole themselves up while the police search house-to-house. This isn’t Iraq.

              3. These were men in black body armor yelling at anyone seen on the street to get indoors while going door-to-door in groups “asking” people for permission to search their houses. What percentage of the hoi polloi do you think knew they could tell the scary men with guns to go away, and what do you think the police’s reaction was? Come on. You know as well as the rest of us what the stories coming out of Boston will look like, and it’s not going to be highly complimentary of Boston’s finest.

        2. But he planted a bomb, you see. And he was Muslim, so he had an infinite supply of nuclear bombs that would also give everyone AIDS.

          1. That’s the thing. He was one guy — one mortal guy, who’d take just as much time as any run-of-the-mill murderer, say, to get his hands/construct a functional firearm/bomb. The fear and paranoia he inspired is just unbelievable.

            We’re becoming incredible pussies. We really are.

            And maybe if he were in a generally armed area, the fucker wouldn’t have posed anywhere near the sort of threat he did in a blue fortress like Boston.

            1. And maybe if he were in a generally armed area, the fucker wouldn’t have posed anywhere near the sort of threat he did in a blue fortress like Boston.

              The FBI/DHS would never have let a mere “civilian” take away their thunder.

              1. It’s fucking disgusting and downright disheartening to see some skinny 19-year-old punk strike the fear of God into an entire city. Instead of people turning to their guns and guts, we saw them cry about it.

            2. I didn’t see “fear and paranoia”. What I saw was a coordinated response, cooperation by the citizens of the Boston area in reporting suspicious stuff they saw and ultimately – a successful operation to catch a bad guy who had caused some massive death and mayhem.

              It’s so easy from your ivory tower to think you know oh so much about how it SHOULD have been done and to call people pussies, but you weren’t on the ground looking for this guy or in the streets of boston waiting for the cops to catch this guy before he killed any more people – whether cops or average joes.

              What exactly was the paranoia he inspired? I’m not seeing it. I’m seeing a successful manhunt involving a metric assload of personnel and I don’t have a problem with that. It got the job done and nobody (apart from two cops) got hurt.

              That’s a good thing

              1. I didn’t see “fear and paranoia”. What I saw was a coordinated response, cooperation by the citizens of the Boston area in reporting suspicious stuff they saw and ultimately – a successful operation to catch a bad guy who had caused some massive death and mayhem.

                Nice revisionism there. What really happened is that the authorities cordoned off a section of Boston so they could play Afghanistan (But without that pesky shooting back part). The kid was located not by the door to door searches (that you, yourself, admit was overkill), but by a single citizen defying the shelter-in-place order and going out for a smoke.

                Again, look at that picture. It says more than I could ever write about the subject.

                1. So what? It’s always result,. not process analysis with you critics. And that’s ALWAYS the wrong approach. Just because the door to door method wasn’t the one that ultimately resulted in his capture doesn’t mean it was wrong to do. And ultimately he was driven to ground and yes – some observant citizen eyes led us to him. It’s a good thing.

                  It worked.

                  And you ivory tower critics can do what you always do – criticize no matter WHAT the state/cops do and from a position of ignorance, not education or god forbid experience in actually hunting down murderers. BOston area law enforcement got the job done, and as I say, we are PART of the community, so it’s awesome that an alert citizen helped point the way. The operation worked well, and normal people – those who don’t spend their life finding fault with cops no matter what they do – normal people in boston are rightly happy with the operation and happy with law enforcement tactics.

                  1. “I didn’t see “fear and paranoia.”

                    I did. The media spent hours crying and reiterating about how America was pulsating with apprehension and fear, interviewees were contemplating how they’d ever go about their lives again unless some pressure-cooker-loving teenage murderer was caught, and authorities even thought it was necessary to request the closure of businesses and for people to stay home. What the fuck is this shit?

                    There’s an enormous difference between acknowledging the existence of a threat, Dunphy, and exaggerating its scope to ludicrous, utterly fictional proportions, not to mention making it out as if it were somehow unique in its hazards.

                    “It’s so easy from your ivory tower to think you know oh so much about how it SHOULD have been done and to call people pussies, but you weren’t on the ground looking for this guy or in the streets of boston waiting for the cops to catch this guy before he killed any more people – whether cops or average joes.

                    What fucking ivory tower?

                    1) I live in an ordinary neighborhood in a an ethnically, racially, and religiously diverse state. Some radicalized fucker like Tsarnaev is just as likely to pop up here as he is in Boston.

                  2. 2) I’d never allow the possible threat of a murderer, rapist, or terrorist on the loose, or whoever the fuck you can possibly conjure up, even in my own town, to disrupt my daily life. I’d go to the same shops, visit the same gym, attend the same public events, drive the same routes, fuck the same women, and make friends in the same places.

                    Locking yourself indoors because some kid playing with gunpowder and pressure cookers could get to you is fucking retarded.

                    I, and most of my neighbors, own and carry firearms. I’m a free man, and I won’t allow the remote danger that some homegrown Islamist cunt might somehow, sometime, possibly threaten me with violence. Ivory tower? Sure, asshole. The only thing that murderous fuck would have accomplished by playing the same games with people around HERE is getting his body weight in lead pumped into him as he flailed on the fucking ground, all minutes before the cops even knew he was there.

                    If the people of Boston like being helpless little dandelions, that’s their choice, but God damn me if I roll over like they and their “leaders” did.

                    So don’t fucking lecture me about threats and ivory towers.

                    1. So don’t fucking lecture me about threats and ivory towers.

                      Fuckin A, well tole Bubba!

                      Seriously, well said!

                    2. but you weren’t on the ground looking


                  3. Just because the door to door method wasn’t the one that ultimately resulted in his capture doesn’t mean it was wrong to do.

                    You’re right. What makes it the wrong thing to do is it’s chilling effect on those who would exercise their 4th Amendment rights. But I see such a point is too “academic” for you.

                    1. He doesn’t give two fucking shits about the Fourth Amendment.

                      Some unhinged prick happened to commit murder with a homemade bomb instead of any number of other tools he could have used to inflict the same sort of damage, so it’s a special case, you understand. He’s now classified as a terrorist, so let’s lock down a fucking city and send paramilitary battalions to invade hundreds, or even thousands, of homes, because, you know, he could be hiding in Aunt Gertrude’s laundry basket.

                      Fuck you and your authoritarian bravado, Dunphy.

                    2. This is the thing. Putting an entire city into this sort of lockdown creates a very tense atmosphere between citizens and police. This could easily lead to a much more dangerous situation between the militant police going door to door and a regular citizen not prepared to let his 4th amendment rights get trampled on.

              2. Your boy shut down an entire city over one guy. What did it cost? Like $333M, to shut down an entire city for a day?

                I think it’s safe to call those who thought that necessary, pussies.

                One little punk brought an American city to it’s knees. Disgraceful.

                1. *boys

                2. One guy and four murders.

                  How is Chicago ever open?

        3. As even the reason article said, it was just a portion of the city that was “shut down”, some stores etc. remained open, and as even the reason article said, it was not a DEMAND. I have yet to see any indication that people who ignored the lockdown were arrested, etc. As far as I can tell they went about their business without police hassle.

          It may SEEM ridiculous to you about how the cops did their thang in Boston, and I frankly haven’t read enough reports to have an opinion beyond – they got their guy ALIVE. Nobody was hurt, apart from two cops (one dead, one critical). Iow, it’s a marked contrast from the LAPD debacle a few months ago.

          Considering this “just a single guy” had injured over 100 people at the marathon and killed 3, and was not merely a concern for personal arms but also for more bombs, I’d rather have “ridiculous” (iyo) deployment that gets the job done than whatever your ideal tactical deployment would have been.

          Iow, it’s easy to call it ridiculous overkill after the guy is in custody and everything is hunky dory, but I’d rather have the cops overdeployed than the opposite.

          1. From my personal experience, when we get a robbery or burg just occurred, we swarm the area, get as many cops as possible on a tight perimeter, we make plenty of noise (tooting sirens) to make it seem like there are even more of us, and we get our K-9 out as soon as possible and we CATCH the bad guys a lot. There’s something to be said for swarming an area with massive manpower. It tends to make the perp go to ground, so to speak. It works for us with burg and robbery suspects constantly.

            What were the ramifications if we didn’t catch this guy? More bombings? Another scene like the Boston marathon? Thanks, but no thanks. I’ll take ridiculous overkill for $500 Alex. It got the job done.

            1. It got the job done.

              Ah, the get a bigger hammer approach to problems.

              So, after all the nonsense, they reluctantly told people to come out, I imagine because they thought they’d lost him, and bam, in minutes a normal, everyday, non-official human being spots him and it’s all over but the officer safety.

              But overkill was the way to go.

              Great reasoning, dude.

              1. Yes, it is. Thanks

                1. bullshit

                  I’ve been involved in more cordon-and-searches than I care to count and I’ll wager that the people I was hunting were a lot more dangerous than this dipshit.

                  I’d have killed to have had an allied and cooperative people that I could communicate with to help me and my buddies stay the fuck alive while it was going on. This is the 21st century, the information age. People are fucking born with communication devices in their hands. Why not use the thousands of people who’d be willing to assist to direct you to your target?

                  The whole system you advocate is an assumption of a pathetic, powerless, or hostile population and it fucking disgusts me.

                  You’re not the only person on this blog that’s been shot at, jackass.

                  1. Curious, what’s your background? Military?

                    1. That’s another point of contention for me, Nazrakke. Dunphy assumes nobody in opposition to his bullshit has the benefit of experience.

                      I and my relatives have been threatened with death, I’ve been shot at, and I’ve shot back at an armed robber.

                      Countless people have experienced life-or-death moments of that sort. It’s a country of 300,000,000 people. But Dunphy doesn’t seem to understand that.

                      After all, only “trained law enforcement professionals” know what it’s like, right, asshole?

                    2. It pisses me off to no fucking end. I get that police spend an awful lot of time staring up the asshole of society, but this constant movement towards behaving like a benevolent occupying force is destructive to both the police and the people in a numerous ways. It fosters an us vs. them mentality that there are only too fucking many examples of already, and breeds a compliant, dependant citizenry that will eventually be totally rolled the fuck over in the end.

                    3. There’s also something partially related to the subject that’s always bothered me, ever since I saw it mentioned somewhere, though I forget where:

                      Gun control advocates constantly state that “assault weapons” belong on the battlefields of war, not the streets of our cities, right?

                      So, in that case, why do cops carry them? Who are they at war with?

                      The us-versus-them mentality is an unholy abomination. Fostering and encouraging is barbarism.

                    4. It

            2. They could have rolled tanks into Watertown, shut down all traffic in a 200 mile radius, jam all cellphones in the area, and they still would have “got the job done.”

          2. That’s why I said it seems ridiculous to me. I have very mixed feelings on the issue.

            1. Fair enough. I can understand why it seems so, I just think it needs to be contrasted with the fact that it WORKED and it worked damn well.

              1. Except it DIDN’T work. They didn’t find the guy by locking down the city, nor by searching everyone’s homes. They found the guy because after the LIFTED the lockdown, a couple called in a tip that their boat’s covering was suspiciously undone.

                1. Inconvenient facts, Darius. Stop mentioning them. Do you want the children of Boston to die in a string of super-duper thermonuclear terrorist explosions, or something.

                  GOD BLESS THE BPD!

  24. ‘Liberal Bull****’: Bill Maher Calls Out Prof. Claiming All Religions Are Equally Violent…..y-violent/

    Unbelievable! The Beckerhead’s web site posts positive Bill Maher video from Real Time.

    1. Wow, the guy talking to him is a moron.

      Bill Maher points out that the only faith that is really carrying out international terrorism at this level is Islam. Islam is much more likely to carry out terrorist attacks than Christianity, for example.

      His guest: Well, then I guess I’ve got someone for you to meet. Her name’s Pam Geller.

      Maher: I don’t know what that means.

      I’ll give Bill Maher this: He is nowhere near as brainwashed as most leftists. I can’t stand the guy 90% of the time, but compared to his guest, Maher comes off like a philosopher.

      1. Yes, for the guest to compare Maher to Pam Geller is proof he is a moron.

        It does pose a good question though. The West does have a blind side on religion though. I used to think the free market would take of the problem – not so sure now.

        1. The problem with the West is that Westerners, particularly rich, ivory tower liberals who never have to deal with the real world, have gotten it into their heads that to criticize individuals within a group is the same thing as hating every member of that group.

          So someone will point out the statistical fact that Islam in modern times is far more likely to breed terrorists than any other religion, and he will get called an ‘Islamophobe.’

          In that clip, Maher was clearly not blaming all Muslims, and yet his guest was convinced that pointing out the basic truth that terrorists are more likely to be Muslim than other religions was Islam-hatred.

          1. They seem to not have that problem with other groups. In fact liberals stereotype more than any other group I’ve seen outside of non-apologetic racists.

            1. In fact liberals stereotype more than any other group I’ve seen outside of non-apologetic racists.

              A distinction without difference.

            2. You can’t be serious. Every wingnut out there calls the Buffetts and Jobs and Gates “commies” for some idiot reason.

              Well, that is not even stereotyping you might say. It is just fucking stupid. The Right is just plain fucking stupid – you have a point.

              Stereotyping is even somewhat sensible – like Muslims support Jihad. But to get something 100% wrong is idiocy.

          2. I agree, but it makes no difference on public policy.

            As much as I hate all religion it is still a free exercise and that is as it should be.

            The occasional terrorist gets the benefit of freedom too (until he is caught).

          3. The problem with the West is that Westerners, particularly rich, ivory tower liberals who never have to deal with the real world, have gotten it into their heads that to criticize individuals within a group is the same thing as hating every member of that group.

            Except you’re not “criticizing individuals within a group”, you’re criticizing Islam itself.

            Islam in modern times is far more likely to breed terrorists than any other religion

            Islam is much more likely to carry out terrorist attacks than Christianity, for example.

            Where is the criticism of individuals? Don’t see it.

            Our Christian country has killed waaaaaay more innocent people in the past decade than Islamic terrorists could hope to do in a century, so basically you’re ripping Islam for not having governments carry out their killing of innocents.

            Plus of course you’re not considering the fact that Christian countries are typically wealthy and sovereign, while most Islamic countries are kept under corrupt dictators so there’s no interference with the West’s raping of the sands until the oil is all gone. Maybe that has to do with the more prevalent use of non-state violence?

          4. In that clip, Maher was clearly not blaming all Muslims

            No, he’s “just” blaming the faith that all Muslims hold dear. Do you not see how that would be offensive to Muslims?

            the basic truth that terrorists are more likely to be Muslim than other religions

            If you define terrorists to be non-state actors, then yes, though that’s kind of a prejudicial definition as it lets all the fine Christians in US uniforms who dropped bombs and directed missiles and drones to targets containing innocent people off the hook.

  25. Too much orange bitters in this Rye old fashioned. No garnish.

    Other than that, quite nice.

    Tonight: whisky drinks, and tube amplified Zevon. HT to lord of the wasteland for getting me started down this terrible audiophile road that ends in thousand dollar power cables.

    1. I love an Old Fashioned.

      I have been craving a Sidecar for weeks but I suck at mixing drinks and have gotten too lazy to go to bars.

      1. It doesn’t get simpler than a sidecar. 4 parts cognac (fine, you can use brandy). 2 parts Cointreua (go name brand). 1 part fresh squeezed lemon juice. Shake with ice, strain into an up glass.

        Now, though, Manhattan. Once started down the whisky trail, who am I to challenge it?

          1. Pretty sure you’ll have to sleep before you could drink whatever I made.

    2. did someone order some CABLES?

    3. I used to have a tube marantz that I got from goodwill for $15. It sounded so good.

      Me being a stupid kid got rid of it because it was “only” 25 watts and bought a brand new shiny turd of a “350 watt” sony home theatre receiver. That thing sounded like shit through a straw, and would distort at medium volume levels, unlike the marantz which seemed to sound better with more volume.

      I was stupid and didn’t realize how all watts aren’t all created equally.

      I have a Harmon Kardon now that I bought off of a coke head who needed cash. It sounds good, but not a good as I know things could sound.

      Audiophile stuff is cool, but I don’t think I’ll ever pay more than a couple of bucks for a cable or 10000 for a pair of speakers. My ears just aren’t good enough to hear the difference (and I suspect that’s the same for 99.9% of the population). The biggest scam is the cables though, I sold stereos for a while and the differences are miniscule and the differences minimal. Nowadays there’s an unbelievable market in high-end digital cables. Really?

      1. Lightning blew out my beautiful old amplifier so I went out and bought a new one like you did.

        The POS did not have a turntable jack/connector on it (whatever it is called) and I understand they are rare these days.

        1. You can buy tube preamps for turntables that allow you to hook them up to a receiver without an input, there are non-tube ones cheaper of course but I’m a tube guy. I like tube amps, and can’t wait to get another one.

          1. also, what has amazed me is that you can build your own very nice amps: for not that much.

      2. My favorite is the reviews on amazon

        This makes me think I’m in the wrong line of work, and should be selling audiophile stuff instead. “What’s the margin?” “4000%”

        That said, tube audio has convinced me that I need to drastically upgrade my speakers. I’m sure I’ll find some fancy, but not audiophile-grade cables in there.

        1. And those are the low end of the high end.

          Once a cable is shielded (which is just a layer of tin foil, for those who may not know) that’s all you really need. For speaker cables, I’d get shielded thick cables and be good with that. For a bit more than a buck a foot you can get shielded 10 gauge which should be good.

          What kind of amp do you have?

          1. this. Modified a bit before I got it.

            1. Sweet. 60 watts of tube power, yeah you need some nice speakers.

              1. Right now I’m thinking B&W bookshelves. 6xx series.

      3. I play electric bass and have a 300 Watt all tube ampeg amp. That thing can get speakers loud. It will take down a 1000 watt resistor amp without issue, and sounds much better doing it.

        1. tubes are amazing. A little power is fucking loud. In college days, roommate’s tube bass amp got stolen in a burglary (note: shitstains got scared off when they saw the arsenal.

        2. That’s a nice fucking amp.

          I bought a marshall jcm 900 (50 watts) a while back for $250, and it sounds great. It’s louder than a cheap 100 watt stack. The only thing I don’t like about it it that at low volumes it sounds empty and cold. But cranked, warm and fuzzy; especially when it gets distorted without turning the distortion on.

          1. that’s the funny thing. The louder you crank an SS amp, it sucks. The louder you crank a tube amp, the better it sounds.

            1. From what I remember it’s how they deal with overload and how watts are measured by law.

              An amp’s wattage is what it can produce at a certain fidelity for a certain amount of time. A ss amp hits a point and becomes distorted and filled with nasty overtones at a distinct wattage, and these effects go up like a hockey stick graph with increased volume. A tube amp, on the other hand, produces more pleasing overtones and becomes increasingly distorted in a more linear fashion. Grossly simplified, a ss amp is finished when it hits that number of watts advertised while a tube amp is just getting started.

              I could be off, but that’s what I remember.

              1. no, that’s exactly what I meant. When an SS amp is at it’s limit, that’s all, there’s nothing it can do. When a tube amp, say, attached to a straocaster, hits it’s limit, well, it’s just starting.

                1. Good shit, I was just throwing that out there to see if I was right. That’s the great thing about libertarians; if you wanna know something, you don’t have to waste time looking it up. Just say something wrong and someone will inevitably come along to correct you.

                  Let’s try…

                  Franklin Roosevelt saved capitalism and brought us out of the great depression!

                  1. Jesus christ fucktard i’m fucking hammered and you need to get your ass out of affrica, shitfuck.

                    1. Here, watch this guy that sounds like Terrence and Phillip explain things.

          2. I love it. Bought it from some guy about 6 years ago for dirt cheap. It is a 1971-3ish Ampeg SVT, the guy thought it was wrecked because it wouldn’t turn on. Turns out the power knob was just busted which my local tech figured out for me.

            But fuck is the damn thing heavy. 80 lbs of weight just for the amp. Worth it to me though for the sound.

            1. Yeah, when I read your initial comment, I thought that that thing must weight a ton. But, like you said, it’s worth it.

  26. Clearly the goverment needs to act now to prevent this from happening again.….._pageNum_1

    1. Ban it.

      1. See? We’re in agreement. Only Paulian libertard uber-anarchist teabagger Klanmen could oppose the prohibition of assault snowflakes.

        1. Nobody needs more than 10 inches of snow.

          1. If only that mountain had only 10 inches of snow, it would have had to reload, and those poor, innocent skiing buddies might have been with us today.

            Shame on us if we’ve forgotten the implications of allowing our society to remain under the constant threat of assault snow.

            /President Teleprompter

    2. Banning snow should do the trick. It’s for the children.

    3. it’s a conspiracy.

    1. Witnesses described a scene in which a jovial atmosphere quickly turned to one of panic just before 5 p.m. Several thought firecrackers were being set off, then a man fell bleeding, his dog also shot.


    2. Several thought firecrackers were being set off, then a man fell bleeding, his dog also shot.

      So it was a cop.

      What happened to the dog?

  27. This music video is very NSFW.


    DId I mention that it’s NSFW?
    Because it is. NSFW.

    1. I’ll be in my bunk.

  28. The Toronto Maple Leafs have clinched their first playoff berth since 2004.
    Anyone else remember how shitty 2004 was?

    1. I thought they didn’t even play an ’04 season?

      1. 04-05 was cancelled.
        not 03-04

        1. Sorry, it was lost in the overkill from the ’02 season

          That said, current lockout has killed it for me. I check every 2-4 days for updates on if the wings made the playoffs, aside from that, go tigers.

          1. Hockey ratings are up over last year.

            1. FY;GW

    2. I thought football was over for the season?

    3. Good for them I guess. I used to enjoy Flyers/Leafs and watching Domi and Brasheer tear into each other.

      1. Oh, and Darcy Tucker should still be executed.

    4. Did you see what the evil penguins did to the bruins?

      They were so selfish and short-sighted in their quest for “#1” that they forgot that the people of Boston didn’t deserve to lose that hockey game.


      1. WE’RE #1!

        1. What are you gonna do if there’s a Jets/Pens series?

          1. Try like hell to get to a game.

            1. Oh hell. I wish man.

              What do tickets go for up there?

              1. For playoffs I think cheapest seat will be $180

            1. It’s a canadian teevee show where they get rid of their impolite citizens by having them fight on a sheet of ice.

      2. All I know is the in the standings column where it shows a team’s record over the last 10 games, for the Islanders it says “8-0-2”.

        Am I’m-a like-a, What-a de fucka?

        I actually looked at the standings this morning and said, “You know, if Boston has a bad week 4th’s not out of reach.”

  29. In wake of major defeat in gun control, FDR points the way to gun control.

    [W]e have learned lessons in the ethics of human relationships ? how devotion to the public good, unselfish service, never-ending consideration of human needs are in themselves conquering forces.
    Democracy looks to the day when these virtues will be required and expected of those who serve the public officially and unofficially. ? FDR, Rochester, MN, August 18, 1934

    What was the difference between FDR and Mussolini again?

    1. Mussolini didn’t lock up the Japs?

    2. Fascist fuck. I can’t bear seeing his portrait hung high and proud in schools.

    3. So is suffering internment official or unofficial public service?

      1. I’ll go with “Official”. If even one bureaucrat benefited from the internment, it’s worth it.

        For the children.

        1. Where are all the camp guards gonna work if we let the japs go?

          Those guards are good patriotic men, with families, that are doing some of the hardest work in the toughest camps out there! Won’t you think of the children (of concentration camp guards)!

    4. FDR escaped justice and wasn’t hung from a lamppost.

    5. It sounds to me like he’s referring to public servants in the last line, and if so I don’t see how we could have a problem with that.

  30. Watching “Raiders of the Lost Ark”.

    Just saw, “We have top men working on it.” “Who?”
    “Top. Men.”

    They were thinking of Reason when they wrote that line.

    Hope everyone’s having a brilliant Saturday.

    Also, fuck California, Obama, the federal bureaucracy, most every cop ever, and everyone at MSNBC.

    1. also fuck the police state.

      Top! Men!!!

    2. ‘Temple of Doom’ is on now. It’s just as violent, depressing, and soulless as I remember it.

      1. To be honest, even indiana jones can;’t save me from this mix of rush, whisky, and soviet tubes.

        Much as I want to.

      2. Okay, I call bullshit on why people hate on ‘Kingdom of the Crystal Skull’ for nuking the fridge but not ‘Temple of Doom’ for the equally idiotic scene where Indy, that annoying blonde, and the Asian kid jump from a plane in a life raft and somehow survive the fall.

        1. Because Temple of Doom was filmed in 1984 and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was filmed in 2008.

          1. Oh look, racist depictions of Indian cuisine and scenes of children being tortured and a man being burned alive. Hahahaha, oh Lucas, it’s like you haven’t written a decent movie since 1980.


              1. What the hell is ‘WILLOW’?

                  1. Never seen it. Although it doesn’t look nearly as good as this.

                    1. You’ve never seen Willow? What kind of a monster are you?

                    2. What? I watched ‘Princess Bride’ as a child instead. And I think I turned out okay.

                    3. You turned out like an adult that’s never seen Willow.

                      HOW IS THAT OKAY!?!?

                    4. I’ve yet to kill anyone.

                    5. I’ve yet to kill anyone.


                    6. I was at a wedding last night and the person in front of me started mumbling “mawwiage, mawwiage is what bwings us towgewvew to-daaay” during actual ceremony. laughter was barely stifled.

                    7. Haha, the second funniest scene in movies involving a character with a lisp. Number one should be obvious.

                    8. Hahaha:

                      “…in which a baby is dragged from one emd of the known world to the other and never stops smiling. Except for little moments when it kind of looks worried or maybe frowns a bit.”

                      But it does sound like a hollow and uninspired retelling of the themes found in the Lord of the Rings (ie small, insignificant creatures tasked with saving the world)

                    9. There you go, shitting on Willow again. Monster.

                    10. Did I hear that someone was talkin’ shit on Willow?

                      What the fuck?

                      That shit’s wrong, man.

                      *shakes fist at sky*

                    11. Oh no, a bimbo with a gun! I miss that show.

            2. Yeah but did you see the guy rip that heart out of the other guys chest?

    3. I’ll drink to that!

  31. This whole senate is out of ORDER!

    Yummy, yummy tears.

    1. jeebus christ. I don’t need to get dummer, but that link done it.

      I;ve been rthinking. Jeep drivers have their v;sign. “we” oughta have a sign like that.

    2. The best part is that whoever cut her off is a member of the majority party, i.e. a democrat. TeeHee…

    3. I think DiFi would have been better off if she had been shut up, considering what she proceeded to say.

      “We have had enough of the development of highly militarized weapons, easy to shoot, big clips, 100-plus bullets in each large-velocity gun, falling into the hands of grievance killers, juveniles, people mentally disturbed,” Feinstein said. “There will be no background checks, apparently,” she added

      Not sure how her bill would have stopped the development of militarized weapons when the military and police are still allowed to use them, but OK.

  32. ok
    “Miller’s Crossing” on Netflix. why not widescreen?

    1. Another failure of the free market.

      1. obviosly only men with guns can solve this.

        1. We cannot leave this to the invisible hand of the free market! That is how government schools get built next to dangerous greedy chemical plants.


  33. Saul Canelo is a ginger mexican? WTF

    1. It’s a thing, my ex was a Mexican ginger. The Irish wanted to be ANYWHERE but Ireland.

      1. I hope Canelo gets to beat the snot out of Mayweather sometime soon.

  34. HEY ‘wakeup’, (if that is your real name!) lookee here

    1. Typical of a Canadian. We all know that you people are deeply involved in the Bilderberg Group’s attempt to control the international banking system.

      1. Typical of an Irishman. Always trying to deflect guilt onto innocent patsies. We know you and your current U.S. figurehead Barack O’Bama are the ones REALLY in charge of the banking system.

  35. If the feds really cared about us spending more than necessary on our beer they’d cut the huge percentage of beer price that is taxes.

  36. Well I’ve had my first legitimate “get off my lawn” moment as well as my first my first face to face moment with the pussification with our youth. We worked our way to near the front of the Crystal Castles concert (who I’ve been listening to since I was 17) to find ourselves surrounded by 16 year olds (who we shared cigarettes with). It became clear after 20 mins or so that something was wrong with the band and they weren’t coming out on time.

    I became increasingly unruly as 20 mins became 45 mins. I tried to work up the crowed around me to express my displeasure and several little bitches turned around to tell me I was being rude. It dawned on me that none of these people worked to earn their tickets but come one, who wouldn’t be pissed that the show they came for was an hour late. I weep for America.

    Long story short they finally showed up and my wife decided to start a one woman mosh pit and elbowed those children in the face till we made it to the front rail.

    1. No idea what I would say or do if someone told me that I was “being rude” at a concert. Maybe show them that clip from Gimme Shelter and pointedly ask them if they still thought that I was being rude.

      These kids must’ve been some weird, prissy breed of GNR fan or something.

      1. My wife and I were shocked at how passive everybody was being. Yeah the people at the very front and back were getting pissed (people around our age mid 20s) but the people around us in the mushy middle were fucking sheep. All I could do was laugh in their faces. It worked out though because elbowing our way in front of them proved easy. My wife grew up on metal concerts with her brother. She doesn’t mess around.

      2. Is it possible to be rude at a rock concert? I mean, I get annoyed by overzealous moshers, but even then I don’t call them “rude.”

        Actually, I might consider all the people who stick their cellphones in the air the entire time to be rude.

        1. Actually, I might consider all the people who stick their cellphones in the air the entire time to be rude.

          They did this. Fucking awful.

    2. Actually it sounds like they were telling you to get off their lawn….

      An inverted yield curve for curmudgeonliness.. yet another sign of the perversion of Obamerica.

  37. I didn’t see “fear and paranoia”. What I saw was a coordinated response, cooperation by the citizens of the Boston area in reporting suspicious stuff they saw and ultimately – a successful operation to catch a bad guy who had caused some massive death and mayhem.

    The real problem here is that the #1 priority of political and police command structures everywhere is avoiding blame for anything that goes wrong.

    Before last week, “Close down the entire city to catch 1 guy!” was not in the playbook. Therefore, if you failed to shut down an entire city to catch one guy, nobody would blame you for not doing so if the guy got away.

    Now that this has happened, it’s in the playbook. And that means that every time you DON’T use it, if you’re a mayor or governor or police commissioner, you’re running the risk that you’ll be blamed for all subsequent events.

    That means if somebody stubs their toe in LA, “SHUT THE CITY DOWN!” If somebody sneezes in NYC, “SHUT THE CITY DOWN!”

    Nobody can now refrain from duplicating this overreaction. Because if they do, and the sneeze guy shoots somebody later, Captain Hindsight will say, “Well, why didn’t you shut the whole city down, the way they did in Boston?”

    1. I don’t know why you’re so paranoid, if you don’t want your city locked down, all you have to do is prove there aren’t any terrorists there.

  38. Sounds like a plan to me dude.

  39. which comes to $7.00 on each of the first 60,000 barrels produced and $18 per barrel after that

    Not exactly correct. $7 on the first 60k IF you make under 2MM total. For the guys over 2MM its $18 from the first barrel.

    Which means, yes, the tax on barrel number 2,000,000 is over $600k.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.