Election 2012

Four More Years for the Unwitting Authoritarian

Obama is the least skilled president since Jimmy Carter, but he is far more menacing.

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Only in America can a president who inherits a deep recession and whose policies have actually made the effects of that recession worse get re-elected. Only in America can a president who wants the bureaucrats who can't run the Post Office to micromanage the administration of every American's health care get re-elected. Only in America can a president who kills Americans overseas who have never been charged or convicted of a crime get re-elected. And only in America can a president who borrowed and spent more than $5 trillion in fewer than four years, plans to repay none of it and promises to borrow another $5 trillion in his second term get re-elected.

What's going on here?

What is going on is the present-day proof of the truism observed by Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton, who rarely agreed on anything in public: When the voters recognize that the public treasury has become a public trough, they will send to Washington not persons who will promote self-reliance and foster an atmosphere of prosperity, but rather those who will give away the most cash and thereby create dependency. This is an attitude that, though present in some localities in the colonial era, was created at the federal level by Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt, magnified by FDR, enhanced by LBJ, and eventually joined in by all modern-day Democrats and most contemporary Republicans.

Mitt Romney is one of those Republicans. He is no opponent of federal entitlements, and he basically promised to keep them where they are. Where they are is a cost to taxpayers of about $1.7 trillion a year. Under President Obama, however, the costs have actually increased, and so have the numbers of those who now receive them. Half of the country knows this, and so it has gleefully sent Obama back to office so he can send them more federal cash taken from the other half.

It is fair to say that Obama is the least skilled and least effective American president since Jimmy Carter, but he is far more menacing. His every instinct is toward the central planning of the economy and the federal regulation of private behavior. He has no interest in protecting American government employees in harm's way in Libya, and he never admits he has been wrong about anything. Though he took an oath to uphold the Constitution, he treats it as a mere guideline, whose grand principles intended to guarantee personal liberty and a diffusion of power can be twisted and compromised to suit his purposes. He rejects the most fundamental of American values—that our rights come from our Creator, and not from the government. His rejection of that leads him to an expansive view of the federal government, which permits it, and thus him, to right any wrong, to regulate any behavior and to tax any event, whether authorized by the Constitution or not, and to subordinate the individual to the state at every turn.

As a practical matter, we are in for very difficult times during Obama's second term. Obamacare is now here to stay; so, no matter who you are or how you pay your medical bills, federal bureaucrats will direct your physicians in their treatment of you, and they will see your medical records. As well, Obama is committed to raising the debt of the federal government to $20 trillion. So, if the Republican-controlled House of Representatives goes along with this, as it did during Obama's first term, the cost will be close to $1 trillion in interest payments every year. As well, everyone's taxes will go up on New Year's Day, as the Bush-era tax cuts will expire then. The progressive vision of a populace dependent on a central government and a European-style welfare state is now at hand.

Though I argued during the campaign that this election was a Hobson's choice between big government and bigger government, and that regrettably it addressed how much private wealth the feds should seize and redistribute and how much private behavior they should regulate, rather than whether the Constitution permits them to do so, and though I have argued that we have really one political party whose two branches mirror each other's wishes for war and power, it is unsettling to find Obama back in the White House for another four years. That sinking feeling comes from the knowledge that he is free from the need to keep an eye on the electorate, and from the terrible thought that he may be the authoritarian we have all known and feared would visit us one day and crush our personal freedoms.

NEXT: Brickbat: Time's Up

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  1. I’m losing faith, guys. I really am. I think this might be a threshold we’ll never be able to cross back.

    Secession? Hoping the rational portion of the Republican Party comes to dominate? What the fuck do we do now?

    1. Massive civil disobedience. That may be our best option to pursue. It worked in India. Perhaps it could work here too. The thugs need to have people believe in their legitimacy. If we don’t give them reason to believe that recognize their legitimacy they will fall.

      1. Massive civil disobedience. That may be our best option to pursue. It worked in India.

        It only worked because they had the vast majority of Indians on their side.

        Obama Youth would happily hack to death with hoes any who dared non-violent civil disobedience.

        1. Yes, exactly like the Obama deathsquads machine-gunned crowds of Tea Party protesters during the Obamacare debate. Oh, wait….

          1. You think they wouldn’t if given the chance?

          2. Oh, wait….

            Are you suggesting that the Tea Party protesters in any way at any time could be considered to be engaging in massive or non-violent civil disobedience?

        2. Maybe they would, but fortunately their generation are such physical weaklings that they couldn’t get it over their shoulder. While I, on the other hand, can do quite a number with a hay rake.

          1. Speaking of fat-ass Obama Youth:

            Obama supporters celebrate: No more Israel; kill those motherf***ers

            Check out the dude at the end, he’s so out-of-shape, he gets winded just yelling about how great Obama is.

            1. What a steaming pile of un/mis-educated stupid losers.

              1. Just think, Scruffy: that first guy cancelled out all your votes.

                1. I’m not convinced the first guy was speaking English.

      2. Civil disobedience only works if your opponent has a functioning conscience. If your opponent believes that anything he does to you is Good and Just because he’s the one doing it, then civil disobedience becomes a clumsy and messy form of suicide.

        Gandhi himself once said in an interview that he picked peaceful civil disobedience as his strategy because he knew that the British people had consciences. He went on in the interview to state that had he believed that the British had no conscience, he’d have been the first to pick up a rifle and start throwing bombs. He picked the strategy that he felt had the best chance of success, and if another method would have worked better, we might know him as the greatest terrorist of all time, instead of one of the greatest pacifists.

        1. You only need to convince a few percentage of the electorate. There’s enough liberals out there with libertarian instincts that they will appreciate the unfairness of forcing a young healthy person to purchase a $250 per month comprehensive health plan instead of a $50/month catestrophic one.

          1. Seriously? Depends on how many “enough” is.

            1. No there aren’t. You persist of thinking they are like you: rational. They aren’t. Their conclusions were not arrived at through reason, but through emotion. Those who have reasoned their way into their conclusions are even more dangerous, because they have clearly and with open eyes concluded that force and fraud are the proper way to run a country. The good intentions are all that matter, and if the results are subpar, it’s because of the obstructionists, and they just need to try again with more funding.

              1. /\THIS THIS THIS AND THIS

              2. Those who have reasoned their way into their conclusions are even more dangerous, because they have clearly and with open eyes concluded that force and fraud are the proper way to run a country.

                That’s not reasoning; it’s rationalizing.

          2. Not likely.

            Those youngsters have to subsidize the geezers on Medicare and the poor on Medicaid and their civil servants and AIDS victims and other people with chronic conditions and lonely people who like to visit doctors, acupuncturists, therapists, etc., etc. And, free birth control, mammograms and (according to Biden) colonoscopy upon demand!

            That’s how many people define “fair”.

          3. “There’s enough liberals out there with libertarian instincts that they will appreciate the unfairness of forcing a young healthy person to purchase a $250 per month comprehensive health plan instead of a $50/month catestrophic one.”

            Any time they’d like to come out from hiding would be wonderful, then.

            1. The fiscally conservative minded Democrats would show themselves if we could get the socially conservative wackos out of the GOP. They do exist, I married one. He has voted Libertarian, but won’t even consider voting GOP.

              1. I’ve had the same experience with a number of Democrats (and obviously my experience is representative of the whole). For what its worth, I’m meeting more and more social conservatives that acknowledge that using government to shove their morality down the throats of others is backfiring.

        2. One thing the appalling large crowd of true Kool-Aid quaffing Obama cultists lack is a conscience. You can’t even call them apologists.

          2016: When the cult leader must exit. What then?

          1. 2016: When the cult leader must exit. What then?

            Obama will still be around. He’ll take to ‘community organizing’ on a national level. He’ll be free to demogogue and demonize his opponents, whether outside or inside the Democratic party. He may not be president, but he’ll still be stumping for like-minded ideologues.

      3. I agree with the civil disobedience line.

        But a catestrophic-only health plan and stage a protest when they try to penalize you for not having the right insurance.

        Evade taxes as much as possible.
        Buy and sell things in the grey economy.
        Work and pay people as indepedent contractors so no money goes into social security.

        Do as much under the table as possible.

        1. How can we buy health insurance plans that are illegal to sell?

      4. Just as soon as you finish this bag of Cheetos.

      5. I’d go one step further: national tax strike until:

        Congress passes a balanced budget.
        Our troops are home.
        NDAA section 1021 and Obama’s dangerous executive orders are rolled back.

        I’d throw in impeachment of Obama if I thought it had a chance.

        Why should we fund a government which no longer represents us? And we *know* they need the money…

      6. “Massive civil disobedience.”

        Nah, they’ll just declare everyone radical extremists and enemies of the state and sic their OcuCheka to stage a ‘peaceful’ counter-protest by burning down your houses and cutting your throats.

    2. “I do not ask that you place your hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, just that you support him no longer.” Etienne de la Boetie

      1. Here is the full quote:

        “Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break into pieces.” Etienne de la Boetie

        1. I’m not taking advice from some French guy named “Tony The Bowtie.” If he was Italian I’d think about it.

          Hey Epi, are any of your greasy Wop family members named Tony? My guess is around 50% of them are.

          1. Wop’s up? How’s your dago?

            1. Hey, I got new Italian tires – dago through mud, dago through snow, when dago flat dago wop, wop, wop.

              1. A bus stops and two Italians get on. They sit down and engage in an animated conversation. A lady behind them tries to ignore them, but just can’t.

                “Emma come first.
                Den I come.
                Den two asses come together.
                I come once-a-more.
                Two asses, they come together again.
                I come again and pee twice.
                Then I come one lasta time.”

                At this point, the lady has had enough and interrupts. “Watch your mouths, men! I don’t know how it is in Italy, but in this country, we don’t talk about our sex lives on the bus!”

                “Huh?” One of the Italians replies. “I’m not-a-talkin’ about sex. I’m-a trying to teach-a my friend how to spell Mississippi.”

          2. Italian tire advertisement:

            Dago in the rain.
            Dago in the snow.
            And when dago flat
            Dago wop, wop, wop.

            1. Dammit, LTC !

        2. Precisely. Move into the grey economy – which is a pure free market. Stop paying taxes. Work as an independent contractor. Buy and sell on craigslist or Ebay. As much as possible. Not saying quit your jobs entirely, but you can avoid participating to an extent.

          1. Internet: invented by government. Shipping infrastructure: built by government. Fucking freeloaders.

            1. I paid for both of them, Paid a lot more than I would have had to if they had been built by a competent organization. No freeloading here.

              1. So you claim, despite all reason.

            2. Bullshit. The intenet was invented by hundreds (maybe thousands) of engineers working in research labs, many of them private. It’s a collection of thousands of individual “inventions” incrementally improving upon telecommunications and computer tech nology in general.
              And it was going to happen whether the government built ARPAnet or not.

              1. And it, like the national highway system, would be a big jumbled inefficient mess without the government there to regulate, create rules and conventions, oh and enforce the laws so that your trades are actually worth your effort. I’m not the one being dogmatic and saying one side of the partnership is always evil and does things poorly. You are.

                1. That doesn’t require government, only a 3rd-party administrator. There’s no reason it has to be operated by the state. Competing private administrators would accomplish the same task only better.

                  1. Competing private administrators would accomplish the same task only better.

                    You don’t think there’s any role for institutions that aren’t solely motivated by profit? How can that possibly cover the needs of human civilization?

                  2. Competing private administrators would accomplish the same task only better.

                    You don’t think there’s any role for institutions that aren’t solely motivated by profit? How can that possibly cover the needs of human civilization?

                2. Tony believes eBay and Craigslist were created by the government. Tony is an idiot.

                3. Sounds like you’re moving the goalposts.

                  First it was “Shipping infrastructure: built by government.”

                  Then it became “And it, like the national highway system, would be a big jumbled inefficient mess without the government there to regulate, create rules and conventions”

                  So you concede that government didn’t build the roads, and perhaps admit that all we need government for is a small number of regulations on the roads and that’s it?

                  1. “and perhaps admit that all we need government for is a small number of regulations on the roads and that’s it?”

                    Lost context a bit. all we need government for in the area of roads is some regulations…

                    Not that the only thing government is necessary for is road regulation.

                4. You really have no idea how the Internet works.

                5. DARPA encouraged the development of the tcp/ip protocol. But it was companies like IBM, DEC, and HP that paid telecommunication companies big bucks to lay down the fiber through which all the tcp/ip traffic could be routed. And it was an engineer at HP who wrote the book that helped popularize DNS which is the reason we can get to this web site via a domain name like reason.com rather than typing in a string of numbers. So who built what?

                6. Why does to-knee always sound like a Nazi Concentration Camp guard berating complaining prisoners?

              2. Exactly. Just punch it in, Tony.

                Man, you never cease to amaze.

    3. If you’ve not read Harry Browne’s book How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World, I suggest you give it a look.

    4. “I’m losing faith, guys. I really am. I think this might be a threshold we’ll never be able to cross back.”

      I keep thinking about FDR. About how we survived FDR.

      We came out the other side hamstrung though. We’ll be even more hamstrung after this, no doubt.

      We’ll probably come out the other side like a European country. Where social mobility is pretty abnormal–and isn’t really thought of as desirable.

      1. Time for another Reason essay on how things are slowly improving in some areas.

        Here’s my scenario: I do predict unemployment above 9% again and inflation above 5%. But, with Obama in a 2nd term w/o having to worry about re-election, he will finally change a few of the things like how the Feds respond to gay marriage, immigration, and drug policy and we will have more freedom in these areas. He may cut defense (may have to) and may scale back some of the Patriot Act. These are based on him not worrying about re-election now. If he worries about the Dems in general losing the presidency, then he may stay as bad on these issues as he was his first term. Immigration won’t be as much of a problem with our economy in the toilet. And most Dems don’t want to give immigrants free shit immediately.

        Then when the economy collapses, we will get back some fiscal sanity as people realize the Dems policies (and G.W’s) are what caused the problem in the first place. People will see the parallels to Greece when California starts to go bankrupt and hopefully we will not bail them out if the economy and debt are already horrific.

        So as long as we don’t end up with a dictator, things will get better. We will be stuck with Obama-care unless it turns out to be so bad that we have to send it back to the states.

        1. If he scales back the Patriot Act, I’ll eat hog brains again. And I don’t see any chance of scaling back the Drug War either.

        2. “And most Dems don’t want to give immigrants free shit immediately.”

          Wait, what?

          They are already trying to give them plenty of free shit – tuition breaks, free medical, etc, etc, etc.

        3. So basically, you have no idea what you’re talking about. You think he’s going to go against everything he’s said and done why? Because you want him to?

        4. “Then when the economy collapses, we will get back some fiscal sanity as people realize the Dems policies (and G.W’s) are what caused the problem in the first place.”

          I’m not sure the economy will collapse.

          Like in European countries, we’ll get just enough growth to get by.

          It’s just that social mobility will be gone. If you’re born into a working class family, that is what you’ll be. And you’ll be proud of that!

          Ambition is a source of embarrassment.

          Opportunities to move from one class to another will be few.

          1. As Obama said in his acceptance tweet, “We are more than the sum of our individual ambitions”.

            That is our future with Barack Obama. It’s a future where individual ambition is a degenerate scourge.

            1. The only good ambition is to submit yourself body and soul to the will of the collective!

              1. Free will is irrelevant. From this time forth, you will serve us.

            2. “The Leader is good. The Leader is great. We give up our will as of this date.”

              Homer: “Na na na na na na na na Leader! Leader! Leader! I love The Leader!”

          2. We would have to have some damn explosive growth just to meet our debt obligations. The deficit and debt will cause the economy to collapse. It’s a mathematical certainty.

            1. Something I read that blew my mind. We sell bonds to finance the debt. We talk about China buying them, but they aren’t any more: the Federal Reserve is buying them. Doesn’t this make “quantitative easing” an accounting trick? Am I misunderstanding something, or is this on the verge of destroying the dollar?

              1. Doesn’t this make “quantitative easing” an accounting trick? Am I misunderstanding something, or is this on the verge of destroying the dollar?

                On the theory of, “why be thought a fool, when you can open your mouth and prove it?” I’m going to lay out my understanding of the situation, (not that I know anything really about either micro- or macroeconomics) and hopefully more knowledgeable posters can tell me how and where I’m completely mistaken.

                In a nutshell, the Fed, through proxies, is buying somewhere north of 2/3 of newly issued U.S. federal debt. In addition, the Fed is issuing lots of new dollars, both to buy debt and for QE purposes. These dollars are flooding large banks, which are sitting on them instead of loaning them out. Why? The added dollars help their reserves ratio, plus the Fed is paying interest on those reserves. Why put the money at risk, especially for such low interest rates, when the Fed will pay you to do nothing? Since the money isn’t being loaned out, it’s not available in the economy to drive inflation, yet it’s still able to buy U.S. debt, enabling our Federal spending spree. If and when the economy ever improves, I imagine those dollars will be released, and our path to Zimbabwe will begin in earnest.

                1. Again, I’m so confused on the subject that, to paraphrase Pauli, I’m probably not even wrong.

                2. I recently visited Russ Roberts’ EconTalk website which describes this activity. I didn’t listen to the full podcast. Instead, I just read the transcript of the highlights. The guest in the podcast is a hyperinflation expert. He doesn’t expect a Zimbabwe type of situation. But I’m not an economist so I can’t evaluate whether he’s right or wrong about that. But I still found it educational to have read the transcript even though some of it was over my head.

                  1. Looks interesting; thanks for the link.

          3. I’m not sure the economy will collapse.

            Like in European countries, we’ll get just enough growth to get by.

            Perhaps I read too much zerohedge, but isn’t one of the reasons the Euros’ economies haven’t collapsed yet is that we keep shoveling QE money into their banks, under the table? If so, who’s going to bail out us, Ken?

            We will get to see Europe go over the falls first. Maybe then we’ll have some better idea of how our failure to pay our bills will affect us?

          4. Opportunities to move from one class to another will be few.

            Which is just what leftists want. A permanent underclass they can manipulate to retain power. Obama has shown the way.

        5. Sweet we’ll be free to smoke weed….but not choose our own healthcare, start our own business, run your own business, eat what you want, drink what you want, keep your own pay….are you figuring we’ll all be so high we wont care?

        6. In other words, he may do in his 2nd term, those things he promised in his first term.

          The alternative is that he said those things to get elected the first time, coasted on the cult status that formed around him and will do whatever the hell we wants in his 2nd term because we doesn’t have to worry about being reelected.

          Only politicians can get away with this.

          This is like if you interviewed contractors and the one you picked was the one who promised to remodel your kitchen, living room, and bedrooms, MAYBE pour a new driveway after that, and he promises to look at getting network cable pulled to all of your rooms.

          4 months later, your rooms are untouched except for some highly controversial work in your daughter’s bathroom and some irritating changes in your garage. When you confront his boss and supporters, they tell you that the contractor CAN’T do all that stuff he promised YET, because other contractors will outbid him or call him mean names and he won’t get the NEXT job from you. Ignore the fact that all that work in your daughter’s bathroom and garage did get him called names and other companies did try to outbid him because of it.

          Like a complete moron you decide to let this guy work at your house for another 6 months. Now his boss and supporters tell you that he’s ‘sure’ to finish that work he promised last time because now that you picked him up again, he’s unbound from having to compete with other contractors for your bid.

        7. Obama barely made those 2008 campaign promises an issue during his presidency, much less a priority.

          Isn’t it more appropriate to prove your worth the first time around instead of not doing any of it because you want to wait until your second chance do it?

          The office of president (needs to be lower case from now on) is merely a job that one should try to hold on to for 8 years, and is not the kind of place for convictions and principles.

          Obama barely made those 2008 campaign promises an issue during his presidency, much less a priority.

          Isn’t it more appropriate to prove your worth the first time around instead of not doing any of it because you want to wait until your second chance do it?

          The office of president (needs to be lower case from now on) is merely a job that one should try to hold on to for 8 years, and is not the kind of place for convictions and principles.

          1. Sorry for the double post inside a post.

            1. That could make like all of interweb space time fold in on itself.

      2. We didn’t survive FDR and we didn’t survive LBJ. Freedoms were destroyed, wealth was destroyed, and our society was transformed.

        What they unleashed is the new normal.

      3. “I keep thinking about FDR. About how we survived FDR.”

        Well we had to endure Van Buren, then Pierce, and Buchanan to get Polk and Lincoln. That is the way I look at the current situation sometimes.

    5. I think the main way is for the Rs to embrace success across all identities and paint their party as the way to that success. I thought the DNC handed the Rs an incredible gift when their entire convention theme was basically “vote for us and we’ll make sure you have a ‘path to the middle class’.” Why didn’t Romney come out and say “the President wants you to be in the middle class. I don’t think he wants anyone except his pals to be above that. I want you to be free to become anything you want, a fantastic success — and my policies will pave the way for you to do that.”

      In the next few years, make successful women, Latinos, gays, Asians the face of the Republican party. Dump the social issues and make it all about achievement. Always show the Ds as bureaucrats wanting to keep you locked in your cubicle with nothing more possible.

      I thought one of the most effective R pitches ever was when they had commercials with a blustering Tip O’Neill clone saying leftist nonsense during some gas shortage, and then saying “the Democrats are out of gas.” Right after that came Reagan and a long string of R success.

      Now, the Ds paint the Rs as old women-and-minority-hating bible thumpers and it clearly worked.

      Make the Ds seem monolithic by comparison, themselves attractive to all and suddenly Rs won’t have to worry about a declining white percentage.

      1. While I agree with virtually everything you say, I’m old enough to have watched the R’s snatch defeat out of the mouth of victory one time too many.

        My one Schadenfreude concession is to mock those Romney supporters who shunned Ron Paul during the primaries by stating that Dr. Paul “…can’t be elected”.

        1. Don’t fool yourself. The Democrats would have utterly destroyed Ron Paul: too old, too extreme, racist newsletters, etc.

      2. there are real differences between the races and genders.

        Lifestyle and religion impacts outcome too.

        We spend too much time worshipping the ideal of equality that we are blinded to its falsehood.

        In reality, we are not all equal. Trying to project an abstract ideal onto practical reality is really dumb.

        Look at the govt styles of europe and africa and asia.

        I’m not arguing against equal treatment, just asking for open eyes.

        The races do have proclivity trends. Serial killers? Young homocide? You see them strongly expressed across europe and africas different populations.

        Its gross ignorance to suggest not only that humans are truly equal, but to suggest our fate and road will resemble europes.

        We are not a homogenous society. We have different inhabitants too.

        When things get bad like greece, race wars will break out.

        When things get bad like greece, you wont expect different races to respond identically. Greeks will riot, asians will keep their heads down.

        This is a recipe for pandemonium.

        Scientifically it seems like willful ignorance to not recognize behavioral and thought-process patterns to evolve in segregated populations.

        If we can diverge skin color, brain size, and athletic prowess, we certainly can diverge inherited attitude trends towards following rules.

    6. “What the fuck do we do now?”

      I say there’s enough libetarians around here to form a separate libertarian state. Heck, 1.2 million voted for Gary Johnson and think of how many there are that either didn’t vote or voted for what they consider “the lesser of two evils.” If there was ever a way to bring us all together, we could write our own Declaration of Independence and Constitution, improving on the areas where the founders clearly screwed up on, in hindsight. I’m with you though. I’ve lost faith. The electorate clearly voted for bigger government, despite all the rhetoric going on to the contrary.

      1. I’ll move from Canada to join.

        Anything to get away from liberals.

        1. I’ll move from Canada to join.

          At least it looks like they won’t be going broke any time soon.

  2. That sinking feeling comes from the knowledge that he is free from the need to keep an eye on the electorate, and from the terrible thought that he http://www.drdrebeatsbydreau.com/ may be the authoritarian we have all known and feared would visit us one day and crush our personal freedoms.

    1. I knew this would happen from the very first moment I heard Dre Day

    2. Wait, Dr Dre is an authoritarian? I didn’t think authoritarians drank Dr. Pepper. I thought they were all Mr. Pibb fans.

      1. Mr. Pibb is a sellout to the Man. Dr. Pepper has stayed righteous!

        1. Dr Pepper understand what government interference can do to business. That’s why he no longer accepts medicare.

      2. Mr. Pibb should have gone to grad school.

    3. ^Flag as spam.

  3. More melodrama..uh, I mean cowbell

    1. The Judge and half the peanut gallery here are Apocalyptic Glenn Beck fans.

      Four years ago it was Obama would confiscate their guns and force them to read the Koran.

      Since Bush left trillion dollar deficits on auto-pilot they have a semblance of math to add to their paranoia.

      1. The derp is strong in this one.

        1. Every once in a while I unblock it just to see if I’m missing anything. I almost always instantly regret it.

          1. Wait how do you block it?

            1. Use Chrome & get Reasonable:

              http://bit.ly/PGGrcX

              1. Hilarious someone made an extension just to block Reason.com trolls.

        2. It is entirely factual.

          Why else would gun sales dramatically rise?

          Either confiscation or fear of a Mad Max USA.

          Have you bought your seed storage bank yet?

          1. Why else would gun sales dramatically rise?

            Inflation fears? Ammo price spike fears due to taxation and regulation? Both are valid reasons.

            Have you bought your seed storage bank yet?

            Nope, but I bought plenty of livestock. Veggies are for pikers. Meat’s where it’s gonna be come doomsday.

            1. Veggies are for pikers. Meat’s where it’s gonna be come doomsday.

              Really now? And just what is your livestock going to eat to get all that meat on their bones?

              1. Grass fed – non-GMO, free range, organic, fair trade, artisan grass.

              2. They don’t need veggies. They can eat the oat grass that covers everything out here. And they can eat the fruit and leaves off the olive trees since curing olives in a post-Apocalyptic world would be too labor intensive.*

                *In the middle of doing about 15 gallons right now. Jesus Christ, I’ll never complain about the price of olives again. This takes over 2 months to do right.

            2. Don’t forget to stock up on precious metals.

          2. It is entirely factual.

            Hmmm.

            Why else would gun sales dramatically rise? Either confiscation or fear of a Mad Max USA.

            Fears of confiscation would imply that by buying more guns with recorded sales, you’re just giving them more to confiscate.
            Fears of a Mad Max USA would require a lot more than the typical box or two of ammo that are bought with them.
            The behavior implies they think guns will be harder to buy. Not all that apocalyptic.

            Have you bought your seed storage bank yet?

            Nope. I do keep a garden and some grazing animals though.

      2. Four years ago it was Obama would confiscate their guns and force them to read the Koran.

        Prove it. Produce one quote from a Reason regular saying this. Now what a lot of people reasonably believed was that he would enact further gun control laws, because he promised to do it on his fucking website.

        1. He won’t, because he’s a disingenuous twat.

        2. Mexican Cartel Jefe:

          “I tell you one thing, he did nothing to control guns coming to us — he personally furnished us the finest military grade stuff — he got my vote.”

      3. Not going to lie, that burn was pretty good. Buttplug, you need to use your cognisance more often.

  4. I am grateful that the Sheeple were able to see through Romneys LIES. Guess the sheeple are not as naive as he thought they were lol

    http://www.in-anon.tk

    1. Wrong site anonbot – that one was for Kos or HuffPo.

    2. Way past time to delete tagtann, moderators.

    3. I am grateful that the Sheeple were able to see through Romneys LIES.

      Because Romney is a lousy liar. I must give kudos to Obama, though. Lying is one thing Obama is very good at.

  5. What’s going on here?

    The country has weaned three consecutive generations of whiny, lazy, cowardly little bitches, and that doesn’t even include the absolute idiots. There’s no way to turn it around, so stop trying to think of ways to do so. Figure out the best way to personnally deal with it and execute that.

    Americans now despise liberty and personal responsibility and will continue to do so until the country collapses.

    1. After the collapse it will only get worse.

      What rises from the ashes will make Russia look free.

    2. “What’s going on here?”

      In the world we want to live on, all those people who depend on the government would have to find productive work.

      What’s going on here?

      Mitt Romney was right about the 47%, that’s what’s going on here. It may not have been 47%, maybe it’s 33%. But Mitt Romney was right about what they think and how they vote.

      They won’t let up until they’ve turned the rest of the country into Detroit. Actually, the people responsible for what’s happened to Detroit still haven’t let up one bit…

      Even after they turned Detroit into Detroit.

      1. Detroit just elected an eight-time felon as a state rep.

    3. The progressives were in control of the educational system and they fucked that up like they did everything else. But government never gets the blame or held accountable. They just argue that 1. I’s not as bad as we say and 2. they just need more money to do it right.

      1. Compared to the number of people carrying the water, there are a lot more people drinking the water than there used to be.

        How do we get more freeloaders to vote against the freeloaders?

        That’s the question.

      2. They didn’t fuck it up from their perspective…..

    4. I had a conversation with LP co-founder David Nolan about a year before he passed away and this is basically what he said to me. In short, the country’s doomed, save yourselves.

    5. Funny from a guy who whines about taking an arrow in the knee.

    6. I walked around my work Wednesday and Thursday saying this is why I wouldn’t vote for any of the pricks and especially this one. I held up my smartphone displaying the headline:

      “OBAMA BOMBS YEMEN HOURS AFTER WINNING ELECTION”

    7. “The country has weaned three consecutive generations of whiny, lazy, cowardly little bitches, and that doesn’t even include the absolute idiots. There’s no way to turn it around, so stop trying to think of ways to do so. Figure out the best way to personnally deal with it and execute that.”

      Overall, just pussies. We have nurtured the “non-judgementalist” beat to the extreme, and now the intellectuals must reap what they have sowed.

      Everyone is special! Everyone gets a Gold Star!

      I wasn’t lied to! I am special too!

  6. Shouldn’t we be celebrating the glorious victories in the war for taxed and regulated marijuana and marriage equality?

    1. Those were all done at the state level. Maybe that’s the key. The federal government was created by the states and only the states have the power to kill the federal government. Someone mentioned secession, the next civil war may be between states that are sick of the feds and those states that will support the feds.

    2. It’s interesting there’s been almost no mention of that. You guys only pretend to care about social issues and civil rights, really all you care about is your own goddamned pocketbook.

      1. “It’s interesting there’s been almost no mention of that.”

        There are at least 3 stories on main page about it. Using the keyword search “marijuana” there are 8 stories/entries from November 9th, 4 from the 8th, and 18 from the 7th.

        So pardon me, you’re an idiot.

        “…really all you care about is your own goddamned pocketbook.”

        Yeah, it’s how I pay my bills.

  7. I don’t know. Seems like the dictators in most banana republics get re-elected over and over again. Why should ours be any different? At least we (currently) have a law limiting them to two terms before switching in a different same leader. That makes us better than the rest.

    1. So we’re at Mexico level political dysfunction rather than Ziare level?

      1. yes.

      2. So we’re at Mexico level political dysfunction rather than Ziare level?

        I guess the argument that illegal Mexicans will import their brand of government is pretty much out the window. We’re already there.

        1. More accurately, illegal immigrants from Mexico. I’m not sure what an illegal Mexican would be. Need to proofread more.

        2. I am so disappointed in my Latino brothers and sisters. It really does make “Reconquista” irrelevent, just like the inevitable 25 years from now.

          Get as much now as possible, maybe more later.

  8. I think South Park might’ve been on to something. The election was decided by who would best be a steward for the new Star Wars films. Sorry, Romney, you didn’t cut it.

    1. hah! I saw that last night…funny. But how did they know O would win…hmmmm?

  9. What a country!

  10. this election only makes it more clear that when it comes to liberty, it’s coming PRIMARILY on a state by state basis. it was true before, but it;s more true now

    i awaken in a state that has a right to privacy. where cops are MUCH more restricted than the feds or cops in almost every other state, from searchin’ and seizin’ things. pretext stops are illegal. dui roadblocks are illegal. curtilage searches are MUCH more restricted. inevitable discovery doctrine is largely not applied, and where searching a motor vehicle “incident” to the driver’s arrest is also not done any more (due to STATE case law)

    i awaken in a state where no permit is needed to openly carry a firearm and where carrying one with a shall issue permit is strongly protected. carrying w/o one is a misdemeanor

    i awaken in a state w/no income tax, where racial preferences are illegal (by citizen initiative) and where gay marriage supporters are declaring victory (close vote count) as we speak.

    and i’m awake in a state where marijuana smoking (in private) and possession is LEGAL

    there is LOTS of , tons of hope, but you gotta look in the right places. like WA state.

    1. Let me give you the Judge/Beckerhead perspective. Your state Governor allowed atheists to put a sign up declaring “There is no God” next to a Christmas manger thingee.

      Don’t you see the tyranny you live under?

      1. Yes, it’s called freedom of religion.

        Atheists vehemently deny it, but the fact remains that they have just as much empirical evidence for the non-existence of God as any religion does for Him. They live their lives with faith in their beliefs. Just like everybody else.

        1. Scientific method dictates that there are a potentially infinite number of possible specific assertions. If the evidence does not support the specific assertion, it must be rejected as non-existent.

          1. Therefore the nonexistent God is nonexistent, and thus exists. For the same reason, He also doesn’t exist.

            1. Contradiction is a confession of error, Tony.

              1. That’s what I said.

            2. First, let me say I hate you and everything you represent T o n y.

              But granted, you could not be more correct about Religion.

              Not all Teabaggers run into walls.

          2. A theist proposing a supernatural God doesn’t have to accept the null hypothesis, since their claim is non-falsifiable.

        2. Technically, any belief system with magic and myths and shit, but no gods or Gods, is atheist, so we really don’t even have to split hairs. Atheism isn’t necessarily secular or materialist.

        3. ginjarra

          christmas is not a holiday for the atheist belief system.

          putting up their message by the christmas display was an attack of another religion and an insult.

          unless atheism has a proactive INSULT directive, this is not part of its mythos to be on a winter holiday professing their worldview.

          it was a vindictive assault on others cherished beliefs during a time of supposed harmony.

          a good-faith message by atheists at winter would be something about world peace or tolerance. attacking others is INTOLERANCE.

          justifying this display will only back you into a corner stating UNKINDNESS as an atheist ideal.

          1. “justifying this display will only back you into a corner stating UNKINDNESS as an atheist ideal.”

            Or, y’know, that whole Speech thing.

        4. “Atheists vehemently deny it, but the fact remains that they have just as much empirical evidence for the non-existence of God as any religion does for Him”

          Uh, actually, most of my fellow Atheists that I’ve spoken with or read agree that you can’t disprove the existence of God , but until there is strong evidence of his being and influence there is no need to think that it’s there.

          Case in point, the Dragon in Carl Sagan’s garage:
          http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm

      2. Only one problem I see with that. I wonder why my fellow atheists care enough to bother with the sign, but don’t care enough to think it through a bit deeper. Why not give a better message than simple negation?

        1. the truth is that atheism has no implicit values.

          it doesnt promote truth nor lies, happiness nor misery. kindness nor cruelty. Its nihilism to the extreme.

          modern atheists overlay their own good-will values that they INHERITED from a judeo-christian society/culture.

          its all quite hilarious. i love hearing atheists pretend their disbelief in a divine being implies we should be nice to each other.

          thats the kind of fairy tale that makes santa look like a carbon-dated peer-reviewed scientific fact.

          negating a metaphysical requires a leap of faith too, so by definition, all atheists have abandoned the pursuit of truth. the only intellectually defensible positions are agnosticism or religion.

          1. “it doesnt promote truth nor lies, happiness nor misery. kindness nor cruelty. Its nihilism to the extreme.

            No, it’s simply the absence of religious views.

            “Modern atheists overlay their own good-will values that they INHERITED from a judeo-christian society/culture.

            Or, y’know, those morals have been instilled in us at an evolutionary level because we’re all social primates and such.

            Unless you mean to assert a narcissistic viewpoint that the gigantic population of the planet that doesn’t root in JudeoChristian values is immoral, or that morality can only exist if it’s issued from some Omnipotent Dictator who employs child molesters.

  11. Only in America can a president who inherits a deep recession and whose policies have actually made the effects of that recession worse get re-elected. Only in America can a president who wants the bureaucrats who can’t run the Post Office to micromanage the administration of every American’s health care get re-elected. Only in America…

    hmmm… that’s pretty much what happens in my country. And also in every country on Earth. America is no exception, or at least is not anymore…

    1. Except the Judge is lying.

      “Micromanage healthcare” is code for persuading the private insurers to include birth control pills in their coverage.

      States have long done this.

      1. “Micromanage healthcare” is code for a two thousand plus page piece of legislation that is spawning thousands more pages of regulation, you dipshit moron.

        Fuck. You’re so stupid it hurts.

        1. Easy…. Sarcasmic given Shreeks new moniker it’s safe to assume he’s pretty severely oxygen deprived.

      2. And the States have long been wrong about it as well. There’s a reason why those states with the most mandates also have the most expensive health coverage.

      3. “persuading the private insurers”

        Just like “asking” the “rich” to “pay a little more”.

        Do it or be put under.

      4. persuading

        The government’s gun is not persuasion. It’s force.

      5. persuading, eh?

        Is that like how Obama claims he’s going to ‘ask’ the wealthy to pay more?

    2. Immigration is still an option.

      There have been other diaspora where people have thrived.

      Lots of peoples came to America and thrived. No reason why Americans can’t migrate elsewhere and do likewise.

      1. and where to go? Unfortunately there aren’t many freer countries in the world. In fact, America is still one of the freest countries (which is actually a sad statement of the world…)

        1. I’ve been looking at Chile.

          There’s a giant developing world out there, where many people are getting more freedom.

          Some of them in the future may offer more freedom than we have here in the U.S.

          That should remain a source of hope. If America, sadly, falls so low that it’s no longer the land of the free, we may still be able to find freedom elsewhere.

          People have migrated before with less than most of us have–and thrived.

          1. Chile is a nice option, indeed. It’s a matter of perspective, though… I’m Brazilian and I would never refuse an opportunity to go to the US.

            1. I supposed it depends what you’re looking for.

              Compared to the U.S. over the next twenty years, Brazil may be the land of opportunity.

            2. Been looking at New Zealand and Australia myself. Though not exactly libertarian paradises, they are not populous enough for the national government to be as intrusive as ours.

              1. New Zealand is particularly attractive, but they also don’t make it easy to immigrate there.

                1. I’m looking at Arica, Chile, myself. My wife has contacts there.

  12. Both candidates were wrong for America. One of them was going to win. On Election Night I was in a bar. The TV was on Fox News channel. When I saw Obama win both Ohio and Pennsylvania I knew it was all over for Romney. The only comfort I can take is that Obama will be gone in January 2017. Romney, whose policies are just as bad, could potentially be in offfice until 2021. Hopefully the GOP will smarten up by 2016 and nominate a true pro-Liberty Conservative (ex. Rand Paul) that I would actually vote for. Otherwise, Gary Johnson, who claims he’ll run again, is sure to get my vote again.

    1. “Romney, whose policies are just as bad”

      I keep trying to understand why promising to sign a repeal of the individual mandate is just as bad as refusing to even consider a repeal of the individual mandate.

      I keep trying to understand why opposing the nationalization of GM is just as bad as going around Ohio and bragging about having nationalized GM.

      Romney’s policies weren’t very good, but Barack Obama’s are awful. And if you think Romney’s solution to the fiscal cliff would have been just as bad as Obama’s, I beg to differ.

      1. Probably because his governing history suggests he would have done otherwise once in office.

        As far as GM is concerned, I’m inclined to say he would have done differently than Obama, but that cow is out of the barn now. And I don’t think Romney would have restricted bailouts to Wall Street.

        1. I didn’t say Mitt Romney was wonderful.

          I said Mitt Romney would not have been just as bad as Obama.

          Just because they’re both not libertarian capitalists does not mean they would have been just as bad as each other.

          There’s a whole spectrum between not very good and awful, and Barack Obama is way down that spectrum from Romney towards awful.

          1. And I would agree with you, but since we’re headed for fiscal collapse either way, we should be focusing on the real solutions instead of mediocre and ineffective stopgap solutions like Romney, who doesn’t even begin to address the other problems most libertarians have with DC like the Drug War and the Patriot Act.

            1. “We should be focusing on the real solutions instead of mediocre and ineffective stopgap solutions like Romney”

              I don’t think you appreciate how completely helpless we are now that Obama is in the White House again.

              There will be no solutions implemented unless Barack Obama approves of them personally.

              John Boehner stood firm for all of 20 minutes–he’s already announced that he’s willing to raise taxes. It’s total capitulation.

              We should focus on the real solutions? Having Barack Obama lose after promising to raise our taxes was the real solution.

              We no longer have any HOPE of influencing public policy. The Republicans don’t even have much of a say in public policy anymore. What can libertarians do about real solutions?

              Embrace our helplessness. Abandon all hope. We have no real solutions. We are at Barack Obama’s mercy for at least two years–probably four. …and the fiscal cliff happens in a matter of weeks.

              Your suggestion that we have real solutions to focus on is absurd. We have none. And no hope of influencing or implementing anything. All we can do is talk to our friends and family. That is the extend of our influence. We’re at Barack Obama’s mercy.

              Deal with it.

              1. Disengage, Refuse Consent.

                You are not at anyone’s mercy quite yet but it will require a new way of thinking about your relationship with government and by extension, the law.

                When corruption is legal and force replaces consent, the law is no longer the moral benchmark it once was. I plan on taking the Rosa Parks view and refuse consent. I will simply ignore what I can, subvert when possible and “cheat” where I can get away with it. I will no longer do business with or be friendly with leftists (I assume them to be quislings ready to turn me in at the slightest hint of thoughtcrime).

                The problem with the “One Size Fits All” /”Top Down Management” bureaucracy is that it tries to be all things to all people and fails consistently. In that failure you’ll find huge cracks in the net. The economic reality is that the larger the government gets, the less efficient it is at monitoring us.

                The Socialist state cannot survive unless it becomes a police state because enforcement is not cost effective otherwise. Economic reality dictates that a police state is too expensive to maintain over time. Eventually, this leftist experiment will collapse of its own weight just like they all do.

                Be the weight, be the monkey in the wrench, the fly in the ointment. Subvert where ever possible and to whatever extent you are comfortable…. DENY CONSENT.

          2. I said Mitt Romney would not have been just as bad as Obama.

            And Pol Pot may not have been as bad as Stalin given the chance. That doesn’t mean I’d have voted for him if the two were on a ballot.

            1. I say promising to sign the repeal of the individual mandate is not just as bad as refusing to repeal the individual mandate, and you come back with that comparison?

              How is promising to sign the repeal of the individual mandate just as bad as either Pol Pot or Stalin?

              My fellow libertarians are unusually awesome in that they can see that Republicans and Democrats can be just as bad as each other in their own ways.

              That does not mean, however, that there aren’t any substantial differences between these two candidates. It is entirely possible that one candidate, in his own bad way, can be substantially better than another candidate–who is also bad.

              And that was the case here. There are various stages in the spectrum of bad economic policy. They can both be on the bad economic policy spectrum–and still one can be much worse than the other.

              For instance, opposing the nationalization of GM on behalf of the UAW is not the same as nationalizing GM on behalf of the UAW.

              1. Keep misrepresenting everyone’s position Ken. God you are so disingenuous. There are also non-economic issues that Romney was as bad or probably worse than Obama on

                1. I’m not being disingenuous. But I think Obama’s worse-than-Romney economic policies are likely to have a much worse impact on our future than whatever threat you think Romney was worse than Obama on in regards to our civil liberties.

                  Honestly, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone make that case. In exactly what ways were Romney’s policies a greater threat on non-economic issues than Obama?

            2. And Pol Pot may not have been as bad as Stalin given the chance. That doesn’t mean I’d have voted for him if the two were on a ballot.

              So if one were to kill 15 million and the other kill 20 million, you would not bother to anying to prevent those additional 5 million getting killed.

      2. Repeal and replace, yo. Replace. As in, you know, it’s bad when the government micromanages a sixth of the economy except when our TEAM does it.

        1. Repealing the individual mandate is not just as bad as not repealing the individual mandate.

          Just becasue neither team is my team does not mean that they’re just as bad as each other.

          1. Repeal and replace Obamacare. You think his replacement wouldn’t have a mandate when it was the centerpiece of his entire Massachusetts plan?

            And Republicans would have cheered it all the way, just like Democrats have lined up behind Obama on drone strikes.

            1. I think promising to sign the repeal the individual mandate, which Romney promised to do, was better than refusing to sign any repeal of the individual mandate.

              1. How the fuck was Romney going to get a repeal of the mandate through a solidly Democratic senate?

                1. The Senate comes up again in 2014.

                  1. “The Senate comes up again in 2014.”

                    And the individual mandate isn’t universally popular with Democrats.

                    And we’ll never get it repealed so long as the president’s signature is required on legislation and Obama is in the White House.

                    There isn’t another presidential election for four years.

                2. How the fuck was Romney going to get a repeal of the mandate through a solidly Democratic senate?

                  He wouldn’t. I would have like to see those waivers simply given to everyone, though.

    2. After the way they treated the Ron Paul supporters during the convention, I wouldn’t count on it. The GOP has a strong and built-in aversion to limited government now.

    3. Rand Paul would change little on the domestic front (it is also doubtful he is as non-interventionist as Ron Paul). We will be out of Afghanistan by 2016 anyway.

      Neither party would let him slash SS/Medicare except in a vague Paul Ryan way 10 years later. So maybe in 2026 debt relief would begin.

      He would hack away at DHS/TSA. I give him that. He would never legalize drugs federally.

  13. One thing people can do is defy the individual mandate requirement of Obamacare and refuse to buy health insurance.

    And they can adjust their federal income tax witholding allowances and/or estimated tax payments so that they are never in an overpaid position on their income taxes and the IRS will not be able to make them pay the penalty for not buying health insurance.

    1. The question then becomes how do you obtain decent pricing from medical providers? The system is rigged so you have to buy insurance in order to be charged reasonable rates.

      1. The insurers are a classic cartel. That is why government needed to do something.

        1. A government created cartel. And Obamacare does absolutely nothing to address that.

          1. In fact Obamacare makes it worse.

          2. A government created cartel.

            Typical. Government creates a problem. Government creates programs/regulations to fix problem they just created. Creates new problems. Rinse, repeat.

    2. A problem with that is those who get coverage from employers – I suspect our company has been preping to simply get rid of any kind of benefit come 2014 – then they have a nice, tidy fixed cost (penaltaxfine) instead of watching our actuaries go out and drink an entire fifth of bourbon after they do the premium estimates for the next year. They will simply tell us, “may you have the joy of O!care”.

      1. This. In spades.

        I suspect that the vast majority of employers will do the same, especially after insurance rates have adjusted to account for the increased bureaucracy required.

        And they can and will increase MUCH more quickly than the penalty will increase, so it will just make more sense to pay the penalty.

        And once corporate coverage goes away, guess what’s going to happen to the cost of individual insurance?

        Not that it will matter, since most medical providers will be capped out with O!care cases, since they will have priority and it will be much easier for the providers to get reimbursement from those cases.

        Enjoy!

        1. It’s not the bureaucracy that is going to cause insurance rates to spike upwards the most. The cause of the biggest spike is simply the way insurance works.

          An insurance company is a HUGE legalized casino. They weigh the odds with absurd precision, and propose a wager. You put up a certain amount of money, they put up a different amount, both amounts determined by their analysis of the odds. You bet each month that you will suffer a misfortune, and they bet that you will not. Each month the winner collects their winnings and a new bet is made the next month. Some bets are too risky, and are refused; A sucker bet (also known as a preexisting condition) is always refused.

          But if the insurance companies are not allowed to refuse sucker bets, that affects everyone’s wagers. Suddenly everyone must pay more for each monthly wager than they used to with their specific odds, across the board.

          Remember, an insurance company is a business, their job is to make a profit, not merely break even or even lose money.

          1. Healthcare payers haven’t been true insurers in ages thanks to state regulations. They’re public utilities and O-care simply adds another level of bureaucracy to that setup, akin to the FCC regulating telephone service on top of all the state PUC’s already doing so.

      2. This is actually good. Everyone can go out and buy cheap high-deductible plans and then start a mass protest when the government tries to force you into an expensive comprehensive plan instead.

        One of the easiest ways to gut ObamaCare will be to force them to let catestrophic-only plans qualify.
        Most people are not aware that there is a “mandatory minimum” in the law and that it is set quite high.

    3. “The IRS will not be able to make them pay the penalty for not buying health insurance.”

      My understanding is that the IRS cannot throw you in jail for not paying the failure to buy insurance penalty, but they can still do all the other things they do to make your life miserable.

      Any amount you don’t pay on your income tax form will still accumulate as unpaid taxes–and interest will continue to compound and accrue.

      They can still garnish your wages. They can still confiscate money out of your bank account. They can devastate your credit rating. They can seize your personal property. They can hassle your employer.

      There are all sorts of things the IRS can do and does to make your life miserable–without throwing you in prison. Knowing that the IRS can’t throw you in prison over this is nice to know–once the IRS has already destroyed your life in every other way.

      That’s a small consolation.

      1. As a victim of an IRS witch hunt audit in which I was wrongfully fucked out of $40k in deductions over a two year period, I can attest to the accuracy of Ken’s statement. It’s ruinous when your credit report has “IRS Tax Delinquency” on it.

      2. “They can still garnish your wages. They can still confiscate money out of your bank account. They can devastate your credit rating. They can seize your personal property. They can hassle your employer”

        Normally yes. But the way the Obamacare legislation was written, the IRS is ONLY allowed to withold it from tax refunds as a means of collecting this specific penalty/tax.

        It cannot use all the other methods it has to collect “regular” taxes owed. It is not allowed to garnish wages, etc. to collect this specific penalty/tax.

        1. My understanding is that the protection against putting someone in prison for failure to pay the tax was not in the way ObamaCare was written–it was in the way ObamaCare was interpreted by Roberts.

          I could be wrong about that, but that’s the way I understand it. He said, basically, this is okay–so long as you can’t throw anyone in jail for failing to pay.

          Regardless, my understanding is that the IRS has all the same means at its disposal for collecting that portion of your 1040 as it has of collecting any other unpaid portion on your form. If the penalty is unpaid, they don’t separate it from the rest of your unpaid taxes. It’s all treated the same. The interest compounds, and it accrues.

          It’s just that if they take you to criminal court, and the only unpaid portion off your 1040 is the part that involves the insurance mandate, then the judge cannot sentence you to jail for it.

          Everything else regarding collections is fair game.

          Oh, and, incidentally, I wouldn’t want to be the test case for somebody who fails to pay the insurance mandate while on parole. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if failing to pay what your 1040 says you owe counts as a parole violation. Paying late is one thing, but I bet failure to pay over successive years is another. If I had a parole officer, it sure isn’t something I’d bring up if no one asked.

          In other words, I’m still not sure it’s impossible for someone to be thrown in jail for not paying the mandate.

    4. A better strategy is to purchase a catestrophic-only type plan, so that you can protest when the government slaps you with the penalty anyway.

      Most of the public is unaware that some plans don’t qualify, and having the catestrophic plan neuters the argument that you’re being irresponsible by not paying for your own health care.

  14. THANK A TEACHER!

  15. Though I argued during the campaign that this election was a Hobson’s choice between big government and bigger government

    Sorry Judge, that’s not a Hobson’s choice scenario. Hobson’s choice is what most liberty minded people are always accused of: do you want government to do it or nobody?

    1. Yeah, this is more of a Morton’s fork. You vote for the Democrat so you get big government, or you vote for the Republican so you get big government.

      1. Hell, I voted for the Libertatian, and I still got big government!

        1. So, Morton’s Trident?

  16. “Only in America!”

    Hyperbole. European welfare states behave this way all the time.

    What is not hyperbole is to state that a majority of the electorate WANT America to be exactly like the European welfare states. They lament that they lack the cradle-to-grave nanny state protections that Europeans ‘enjoy’.

    “Only in America” is their rallying cry. Only in America do you have to choose your own doctor, and choose what treatments you will pay for. In Europe, the choices are made for you, often without you even realizing a choice has been made. Only in America are you expected to finish school and begin to suport yourself while you are not even 30 years old yet. But that is changing. Becoming more like Europe is progress.

  17. with Obama in a 2nd term w/o having to worry about re-election, he will finally change a few of the things like how the Feds respond to gay marriage, immigration, and drug policy and we will have more freedom in these areas. He may cut defense (may have to) and may scale back some of the Patriot Act.

    Lay off the airplane glue, Bill.

  18. The sinking feeling is the knowledge that the American people want nothing more than to suckle at the teat of big government until it runs dry.

  19. Obama won in part because he got away with blatant lies

    George Orwell expressed a fear in the book 1984 that leaders would gain so much influence they could: “announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it.” Previously he wrote: “This prospect frightens me much more than bombs”.

    We seem to have reached that point. Obama claimed at the Democratic National Convention on Sept. 6th, 2012: “I’ll use the money we’re no longer spending on war to pay down our debt”.

    Yet the White House site contains his 2013 budget proposal with a table showing his planned national debt at the end of each year through 2022. It adds at least $900 billion to the debt every year, $9.6 trillion over a decade.

    If a CEO lied about his company’s finances to get people to buy stock, the public would cry “fraud! send him to jail!”. Should we trust someone to run our government that we wouldn’t trust to run a company? This isn’t a one time gaffe, he has repeated it from the State of the Union in January, through dozens of speeches into October and a campaign commercial.

    People failed to point out his own site contradicts him, there is no need to trust a partisan source. He’ll keep lying if people don’t spread the word since he gets away with it. See this short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zJbYNDRn_Y or http://www.PoliticsDebunked.com for more including links.

  20. Perhaps it’s time for everyone here to move to NH and secede…

    1. Didn’t New Hampshire just go big for Obama?

      1. 52.6% Obama, 46.5% Romney and 1.2% Gary Johnson. So not exactly big.

        Though if enough libertarians moved to the state, a take-over of the state government could be possible. Not to mention the possibility of two libertarian senators.

        A pipe dream, perhaps, but it just might work.

        1. Fuck NH, You don’t want to be anywhere near the U.S. when the debt shit hits the proverbial fan.

              1. Greenland. The glaciars are melting and the Danes couldn’t put up a fight.

                1. Unless the eskimos are whipping the walruses into shape, molding into killing machines!

          1. NH is on the border, they could try to secede and join Canada for protection.

    2. Perhaps it’s time for everyone to learn how to use PGP and participate in the underground economy via Tor Hidden Services.

      1. I fully support seceding into the underground economy as much as possible.

        Consider it a distributed “Galt’s Gulch”.

    3. NH was actually the first if the 13 colonies to declare independence from The Motherland… And quite frankly history seems to repeat itself

    4. Democrat governor, state house went Democrat, both US reps are now Democrats.

      Massachusetts is right next door.

      No.

  21. You people need to get a grip.

    1. “You people need to get a grip.”

      Hey, that’s EXACTLY what your boy Obama told the guys in the Libyan embassy when they BEGGED the world’s largest military power to send a dozen fucking marines to stop Islamic savages from murdering them.

      “Get a grip, bitches. I gots to play me some golf.”

      1. No, he had to go to a fundraiser.

    2. “OBAMA BOMBS YEMEN HOURS AFTER WINNING REELECTION”

      Barack the UltraViolent continues his crusade against half of the world.

      Yes, Romney may have done the same — maybe — but Barry has a four-year history.

  22. I have a bit of optimism.

    Once the Bush tax cuts expire people will feel that and the ongoing economic policies along with that will only lead to more unemployment by 2014 and 16 they will be looking at the alternative to vote for, team red. Let’s just hope team red doesn’t send some other neocon up there.

    This election was lost because of social issues (with republicans stuck in 1950 America) and because Romney was not a different option than Obama, his plan was, ill do everything obama has done, expect a little bit less of it but hey, gays wont be able to get married!

  23. There’s nothing unwitting about his authoritarianism.

    1. I agree, it seems pretty witting to me.

  24. I read a book about two societies. One group partied and did no work the second group worked and out of charity helped to feed the others. Soon the ones who were being feed by the workers decided they must be better then everyone else because they don’t have to work and are taken care of by the workers so they decided they must be royalty and the workers were the slaves and decided the slaves did not deserve anything that they created and took all of their belongings for themselves. Unfortunately once they took all the goods and consumed all the food left nothing to be planted and the whole society collapsed.
    This is where we are at, the welfare class has decided that they must be the better ones and the taxpayers are the slave to their needs.

  25. “What’s going on here?”

    Talked to my sister the other day. Her political philosophy: “the government should butt out and leave people free to live their lives”. Sounds promising, doesn’t it? She was for Obama.

    She’s not crazy, it’s just that her focus was on lifestyle issues like abortion and gay marriage. Abortion and marriage are huge, personal issues. Their impact is direct and unequivocal.

    The Christian Conservative lunatics talking about God’s intention for rape victims have finally been overtaken by demographics. That’s crazy talk that younger folks will never get past.

    Dark days ahead for republicans. It’s hard to see how they cobble together a majority. The Christian Conservative voting bloc is shrinking, and increasingly antagonizing other blocs.

    Meanwhile, dark days ahead for the country, as Obama can continue to expand federal bureaucratic control for another four years.

    1. Is Obama like the magic negro in the movies, you know, Will Smith in that golf movie where everything is made right with the world in the end? Even though it looks like we’re in the shit right now.

      1. Hell there was even one in Happy Gilmore! But he died falling out the window running from a gator head.

  26. If I’m reading the thread correctly, you glibertarians are damn near suicidal. Please follow through.

  27. Talked to my sister the other day. Her political philosophy: “the government should butt out and leave people free to live their lives”. Sounds promising, doesn’t it? She was for Obama.

    She’s not crazy, it’s just cheap nfl jerseys that her focus was on lifestyle issues like abortion and gay marriage. Abortion and marriage are huge, personal issues. Their impact is direct and unequivocal.

    The Christian Conservative lunatics talking about God’s intention for rape victims have finally been overtaken by demographics. That’s crazy talk that younger folks will never get past.

    Dark days ahead for republicans. It’s hard to see how they cobble together a majority. The Christian Conservative cheap MLB jerseys voting bloc is shrinking, and increasingly antagonizing other blocs.

    Meanwhile, dark days ahead for the country, as Obama can continue to expand federal bureaucratic control for another four years.

    1. Though I argued during the campaign that this election was a Hobson’s choice between big government and bigger government, and that regrettably it addressed how much private wealth the feds should seize and redistribute and how much private behavior they should regulate, rather than whether the Constitution permits them to do so, and though I have argued that we have really one political party whose two branches mirror each other’s wishes for war and power, it is unsettling to find Obama back in the White House for another four years. That sinking feeling comes from the knowledge that he is free from the need to keep cheap nfl jerseys an eye on the electorate, and from the terrible thought that he may be the authoritarian we have all known and feared would visit us one day and crush our personal freedoms.

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