WikiLeaks

A Politician Across The Pond Gets Into His Own Rape Controversy While Defending Assange

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While the United States is currently enjoying its own rape controversy in the UK George Galloway MP has got himself into some trouble of his own. Although Todd Akin seems to have slept through almost every biology class, George Galloway seems to have misunderstood exactly what it even means to rape someone.

Galloway, one of the UK's more memorable professional taxpayer-funded clowns, has claimed that the act that has Assange in such trouble with the Swedish authorities is not rape. Rather, Galloway claims, Assange is only guilty of "bad sexual etiquette":

It might be really bad manners not to have tapped her on the shoulder and said, 'do you mind if I do it again?' It might be…bad sexual etiquette, but whatever else it is, it is not rape or you bankrupt the term rape of all meaning.

One of the women involved in the case claims that she woke with Assange having sex with her. Galloway said of this sort of encounter:

What occurred is not rape as most people understand it.

The BBC reported on what British law would have to say in such a case:

… the law was clear that if the woman was asleep when a sexual encounter began, consent cannot "reasonably" have been given and having had sex before did not give a man the right to have sex again at any time and assume consent.

Quite where Galloway picked up that having sex with someone while they are asleep is not rape is anyone's guess.

Whatever one might think of Assange's hacking and the legitimacy of whistleblowing it is important to remember that he is wanted in Sweden on charges of sexual assault, not espionage. Were Assange not involved in wikileaks he would have been on a plane to Sweden months ago, and he would certainly not be holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy in London.

Galloway is sticking by his remarks, and I suppose we won't see if a Swedish court is sympathetic to his claims about what counts as rape until Assange is extradited. Given the current diplomatic fiasco, that may take some time.

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  1. It may be rape, but it’s not rape-rape.

  2. So there are two different allegations of rape.

    One is having sex with someone asleep he just had sex with.

    The other is he claimed to have gotten an HIV test when in fact he did not.

    Is there a third? Fourth?

    Why isn’t there a run down of this every time the rape allegations are mentioned?

    Why is Reason so silent and secretive about the subject?

    1. hy is Reason so silent and secretive about the subject?

      Koch funding.

      1. I get all my Assange rape news from Reason…

        And i just found out about the sleep rape.

        I am kind of pissed i was not better informed before on this subject.

  3. So she woke up and then? Did she push him off and call the police?

  4. Sorry, but Galloway’s right — rape isn’t the set of all sexual experiences that don’t have affirmative consent beforehand. Sex while drunk, role-playing — and yes, sex while asleep — are all examples of situations where, although consent is ambiguous, it’s not rape.

    Given your definition, millions of people in America have raped their wives/girlfriends (or sexually assaulted their husbands/boyfriends with surprise birthday BJS) at some point.

    Galloway is right — Assange is a boor, but if that’s all we have to go on he’s not a rapist.

    1. Yep, I agree.

    2. It depends on context. I think for a one night stand I don’t think you can presume consent. And of course if you partners specifically forbids it then it definitely is rape.

      I don’t know about the drug testing. If you say you don’t have an STD and/or had a test and consent is predicated on it then I think it is rape, especially if it turns out you do have one.

      Neither of these have to be treated legally the same as each other or forcible rape. I don’t see why there can’t be a spectrum.

  5. Does anyone ever get lambasted for pointing out that there’s a difference between first and second degree murder?

    Or what about second degree murder and manslaughter?

    If someone pointed out that someone else committed manslaughter rather than murder, I’m not sure that would merit instantaneous opprobrium.

    Hell, if pointing out extenuating circumstances is so necessarily awful, why bother even having a trial?

    1. There’s a difference between calling something “second-degree murder” or “manslaughter” and “not murder.”

      The deniers here aren’t saying this was a lesser degree of rape. They’re saying it’s not rape.

  6. But what does this have to do with Stacey Keach?

    1. Mike Hammer once sleep-raped a client.

  7. So, if my GF starts sucking my dick while I’m asleep, is that rape or rape-rape?

    1. Whatever it is you should buy her flowers every chance you get.

      1. Yes indeed.
        According to some here, it is still rape though.

    2. If I’m on the jury?

      I’m callin’ it “surprise sex” and letting her off the hook.

      1. Off the what?

    3. So, if my GF starts sucking my dick while I’m asleep, is that rape or rape-rape?

      It’s a good girlfriend. Keep her.

    4. Your girlfriend is a sick pervert. Give her to me so that I may dispose of her properly.

      1. Agreed he needs to dump her.

        Giving out that kind of info on the Hit and Run forums is proof that he does not deserve her.

        1. I said “if”. Anyway, this is Sweden, so I’d be the one on trial. You and Warty would no doubt vote to convict me just to get me out of the way.

    5. The more important question dudes should be asking themselves is: is it sexual assault to teabag your buddy who passed out drunk? Is taking pictures for all of your friends to see an aggravating factor?

      1. Don’t ruin our fun with technicalities, Christina.

        Mac: You put your balls in my mouth while I was sleeping?

        Dennis: Yeah, man. Twice.

        Mac: That’s rape! That is borderline rape!

      2. is it sexual assault to teabag your buddy who passed out drunk?

        This is like shark attacks or getting hit by lighting.

        In the real world it never happens.

        1. Girls don’t have pillow fights in their underwear at sleepovers. You know why? Because boys aren’t there to witness it.

          Lesbian activity among heterosexual chicks is directly proportional to how many dudes are watching. It’s a show. It’s always a show.

        2. When did you go to college? I saw it happen more than once in college and it was a particularly big or dudebroish one. Of course most didn’t actually put them in the mouth, just the face but one did (an athlete as I recall).

  8. It is possible to have sex with a woman while she is asleep? Asleep, not drunk or anesthetized. Maybe it’s just me but this is a revelation. It strikes me that any guy who has managed to accomplish this and has an atom of self-respect should definitely not acknowledge the fact – and not because of any laws pertaining to it.

    1. I read about a case a while ago, where a guy raped a girl at a party. He’d passed out, and she was asleep too.

      Anyway, the guy confessed to the police, but then when he got to talking to his defense attorney, it came out that he’d raped the girl in his sleep.

      When it went to trial, they got some of his old girlfriends on the stand, and they testified that it happened to them, too. He just sometimes bangs whoever’s next to him in his sleep!

      He got off.

      No pun intended.

      1. My point was size issues. And if this guy couldn’t wake up a whole series of GFs, one has to think that he really shouldn’t talk about it. And, jayz, if that didn’t wake him up he probably has neurological issues as well!

        1. From that perspective, yeah, not noticing enough to wake up would be pretty embarrassing.

          1. My wife would participate and climax and still have no memories whatsoever the next morning. It’s not clear that she was really awake.

            1. Sometimes they fake and say they’re having one when they’re not. Sometimes they have one and say they didn’t.

              It’s like a box of chocolates.

              1. Lying bitches!

                1. It’s all part of the fun.

                  You gotta love that about ’em too.

  9. Sleep is not the key factor. Were they sleeping together after having sex? Or did he enter her room unannounced and climb into her bed without her knowledge?

    1. The CIA honey pot method. Get him aroused with extensive foreplay. Pretend to fall asleep with your legs conveniently parted. He takes the bait and goes for a dip. Call cops.

      1. The CIA honey pot method.

        This sounds more like a KGB op.

        The CIA would just pay people to fabricate lies or threaten out of country family members with imprisonment/death.

    2. According to prosecution, Assange met and had consensual sex with the girl that same night (i.e., one-night stand), then later that night had sex with her while she was asleep.

      Not rape in my book (even if Assange comes off as an asshole).

      1. I have not read whether they stayed in the same bed after having sex or if he departed and came back later. The two situations are different.

        1. Do they have proof of breaking and entering, or evidence that Assange departed? I agree that the two situations are qualitatively different, but barring evidence it’s a he said, she said story. I am inclined not to treat the prosecution favorably, given that they were caught in some fabrication and embellishment and given the sensationalistic nature of the allegations.

  10. Ok, I kind of have to kinda sorta agree with the brit git here. Having sex with someone who is sleeping can certainly be rape, however . . . it isn’t always.

    There are situations where one person may assume they have consent, only to find out that they don’t.

    I’m having difficulty trying to make that clear but as an example;

    If you start blowing me while I’m sleeping, how rapey it is greatly depends on who you are when I wake up. If I had just had sex with you and woke up to find you were in the process of getting more (and even if before falling asleep I had no intention of doing this again) I still wouldn’t call it rape, or even sexual assault – at worst I would be thinking like Galloway, this is just awkward.

    1. If you start blowing me while I’m sleeping, how rapey it is greatly depends on who you are when I wake up. If I had just had sex with you and woke up to find you were in the process of getting more (and even if before falling asleep I had no intention of doing this again) I still wouldn’t call it rape, or even sexual assault – at worst I would be thinking like Galloway, this is just awkward.

      I would like to find a woman who would continuously push these boundaries with me.

    2. Early in our relationship, I once asked my wife about a blowjob she promised. She swore she gave me one early that morning. She says I even talked to her, joked, used my sexy Cartman voice that gets her teeth chattering just the right way, and even leaned up to take a couple of pills. I have no memory of doing any of this. If I had woken in the middle of that, I could have called 911 on her ass.

      1. Getting her teeth chattering during a blowjob is a bug, not a feature.

  11. It is just so goddamn important to make sure that everyone is on the same page of the verbal etiquette when discussing the politics of rape that Reason is going to post about a dozen more of these stories on it. Hell, local colleges are having their orientations this week, maybe I’ll hop in in the middle of a rape subject etiquette seminar to hear what the kids are learning about it this week.

  12. ? the law was clear that if the woman was asleep when a sexual encounter began, consent cannot “reasonably” have been given and having had sex before did not give a man the right to have sex again at any time and assume consent.

    This is absolutely absurd, because as I pointed out this morning it makes it logically necessary that sleeping in the spooning position ALSO be considered sexual assault, because when I do that I’m groping someone without their explicit consent.

    If I can’t assume consent based on the conduct that occurred before we fell asleep, then I can’t assume consent for anything. If I walk up to a girl on the street right now and grab her breast, it’s a sexual assault of some variety in every state in the land. Since falling asleep immediately cancels all previous indications of consent, according to this fucking moron, that means that all sleeping while spooning is sexual assault exactly the same as walking up to someone on the street and grabbing their tits.

    1. If I can’t assume consent based on the conduct that occurred before we fell asleep, then I can’t assume consent for anything.

      This is hearsay, but I heard that at (I think it was Northwestern?), per the sexual conduct policy, you’re supposed to ask at every step…

      Is it okay if I undo your bra?

      Is it okay if I unbutton your…

      All the way to home plate.

      At that point, I think I’d rather have my lawyer write something up for her to sign over drinks or something.

      1. The contract is void if you have drinks.

      2. I socialize with a group of radical anarchist types that loves to handle consent this way. Whatever, it can be sweet and/or cute, but I’m not into doing things that way, so once one of these folks passes a certain threshold of trust with me I award them a Consent Pass. The bearer of this Consent Pass may presume to have my consent for such activities as the bearer deems reasonable based on prior history, and should bearer misjudge what is reasonable, I will correct without anger or pressing charges. In other words, the Consent Pass gives them permission to act like a normal respectful person. (Note: Consent Pass is not a real object.)

  13. Frankly, I agree with Galloway on this.

    What happened when assange poked his sleeping bed mate? Nothing? She didn’t wake up till after the sex was done? Did she wake up screaming that she was being assaulted? Did she keep mum out of fear and then report the felony to the police at first opportunity?

    It sounds like a conveniently drummed-up felony charge motivated by something other than what is claimed.

  14. I guess I should turn myself in for raping my wife.

  15. Assange and Galloway are both jackasses but Galloway is correct on this point as many have pointed out already. It’s a shame that the msm is to the point that they can’t acknowledge something so common and mutually enjoyed in relationships.

    And to the person who couldn’t understand how it was physically possible to spread a woman’s legs etc while she’s sleeping, there are more positions than missionary.

  16. Is there something between bad sexual etiquette and forcible rape that could characterize his behavior? Certainly, I can see that there are women who might enjoy such an experience. There are also women who might reflexively cause serious damage to a man if they were awakened by sex in progress. With a one-night stand or any partner you don’t know well, it’s taking a big risk to assume she’ll be OK with it. Even in a long-term relationship, you’d best be sensitive to the woman’s general state of mind and the state of the relatioship in the time prior to the event. I don’t know any details of what occurred with Assange and this woman and don’t really want to offer an opinion about it. But merely raising the question shouldn’t be such a controversy. The fact that Galloway chose to go on Celebrity Big Brother while an MP should’ve been reason enough to not to re-elect the guy though.

  17. “Is there something between bad sexual etiquette and forcible rape that could characterize his behavior? Certainly, I can see that there are women who might enjoy such an experience. There are also women who might reflexively cause serious damage to a man if they were awakened by sex in progress.”

    Just to be clear, I’m not dismissing the possibility that Assange did commit rape. As Amelia said, it’s the details that count. My reason for commenting is just to push back on the idea that it is impossible for something like that to be mutually enjoyed.

  18. Galloway is an MP?

    I know him from tv shows on Iranian State TV.
    Where he is an Islamist hack with a fucked up Brit accent.

  19. Does anyone not remember what the girl says happened?

    Back when this came out she described what went on. They met, had sex and went to sleep, at some point during the night she woke to find Assange having sex with her and she joined in. Later she realised that he shouldn’t have done that.

    That is obviously paraphrasing, but that’s what she said way back when.

    No rape.

  20. “Does anyone not remember what the girl says happened?”

    Yes, we all do not remember.

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