When Is Quoting Van Halen a Crime?
This week Gary D. Russi, president of Oakland University in Michigan, rejected a request from the Foundation for Inividual Rights in Education (FIRE) to reconsider the three-semester suspension imposed on a student for commenting on the attractiveness of his creative writing instructor in a journal he maintained as part of the course. The "daybook" was supposed to be "a place for a writer to try out ideas and record impressions and observations," including "freewriting/brainstorming" and "creative entries." The student, Joseph Corlett, says his instructor, Pamela Mitzelfeld, repeatedly assured him that no topic was off limits, which turned out to be not exactly true. In an entry titled "Hot for Teacher," Corlett reflected on the challenge of paying attention in classes taught by attractive instructors:
Then there's Mrs. Mitzelfeld, English 380. She walks in and I say to myself "Drop [the class], motherfucker, drop." Kee-rist, I'll never learn a thing. Tall, blond, stacked, skirt, heels, fingernails, smart, articulate, smile. I'm toast but I stay. I'll fuck up my whole Tuesday-Thursday class [schedule] thing. I'll search for something unattractive about her. No luck yet. Shit.
Two pages further in the journal, Corlett imagined a (fictional) warning from Mitzelfeld:
Dear Joseph:
While your writing is fair, it is completely inappropriate. I have broken your rule and torn out the offending pages. If this continues, I am obligated to report you to the Dean. Otherwise I shall consider the matter closed.
Sincerely,
Mrs. Mitzelfeld
Corlett nevertheless continued the "Hot for Teacher" theme. In an entry dated September 23, 2011, he likened Mitzelfeld to Ginger on Gilligan's Island while comparing another instructor to Maryanne. According to Corlett and FIRE, these two entries are the sole basis for Mitzelfeld's claim that he had sexually harassed her, which she made after collecting his journal at the beginning of November. In a November 29, 2011, memo to various colleagues, Mitzelfeld called Corlett a "Dangerous Student," citing letters he had written to the school newspaper "defending the right to carry concealed weapons on campus." Because of his Second Amendment advocacy, she said, "I cannot feel safe knowing that he might have a weapon on him at any time." She complained that Corlett's presence had created "an unacceptable and dangerous work environment" and concluded, "Either Mr. Corlett leaves campus or I do." As a result of Mitzelfeld's complaints, Corlett was banned from campus, suspended for three semesters, and ordered to undergo "sensitivity" training.
FIRE argues that Oakland University, as a government-run school, is bound to respect Corlett's First Amendment rights, which include "germane, class-related expression" such as the journal entries that offended Mitzelfeld. Adam Kissel, FIRE's vice president of programs, notes that Corlett's conduct falls far short of sexual harassment as it has been defined by the federal courts. Oakland's response, as expressed by Russi, General Counsel Boyd C. Farnam, and Vice President for Student Affairs & Enrollment Management Mary Beth Snyder, is that Corlett cannot use a First Amendment defense in an internal disciplinary proceeding and that the university's definition of "unlawful conduct" (the official charge against Corlett) need not conform to the case law dealing with sexual harassment. As Snyder put it, Corlett seeks to use "technical legal definitions and standards in defense to charges that are neither technical nor legal in nature, but rather, would be considered intimidating, harassing, threatening or assaultive behavior in the context of the University's academic, educational environment." In essence, says FIRE President Greg Lukianoff, "Oakland University made up its own definition of the 'law' in order to punish a student for his creative writing."
If you reject FIRE's premise that a state-sponsored university should face different legal constrants in policing student speech than a private university would, you may agree with Oakland's adminstrators that the First Amendment is irrelevant in this situation. But there is still the question of whether an institution supposedly devoted to free inquiry should be punishing students for writing things that offend their teachers. It's pretty clear that Corlett's journal entries did not amount to sexual harassment. Are they nevertheless a kind of disruptive speech that universities should punish? If so, was Corlett's penalty proportionate? Is your answer affected by the knowledge that Corlett is a middle-aged man who has been married for three decades? And what, if anything, do his views on gun control have to do with it?
FIRE's latest update, which includes links to relevant documents, is here.
Addendum: As I noted, the "warning" from Mitzelfeld was fictional, written by Corlett himself before she had seen the journal, so it is not the case that he persisted after being asked to stop.
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Well I just wonder what reason.com vaginally preoccupied, Epi stalker will have contribute on this topic/thread?
onetime I was washing dishes in the sink but my Dad made me stop because he needed the toilet instead.
Schools typically do have a sexual harassment policy that students agree to abide by when enrolling, so I don't see how his First Amendment rights were violated when he agreed to curtail them when he enrolled.
That being said, in addition to being a typical brain dead Marxoid academic, the teacher sounds like she's just playing the victim card for all its worth.
Mrs. Mitzelfeld, the state bar forbids me from promising you a big cash settlement. But just between you and me, I promise you a big cash settlement.
You'll be getting more than just a lawyer, Mrs. Mitzelfeld. You'll also be getting this exquisite faux pearl necklace, a $99 value, as our gift to you.
They do, but if theirs is anything like ours, this particular behavior does not even come close to violating it.
So, basically, there's no way to get a college education at a government-run school unless you sacrifice your FA rights. And you're cool with that.
I didn't say that, but you can't write lascivious notes to someone if it is sexual harassment under school guidelines.
The issue is that the teacher reacted inappropriately since it doesn't appear like she even gave him a warning.
The teacher specifically referenced protected political speech that was NOT sexually harassing in nature in her complaint.
Personally, I say forget Sandra Fluke. Somebody please latch on to this one and destroy this fucking cunt's career, and life. Using legal and non-violent means, of course.
She also waived any use of the school's policy when she declared no topics off limit.
Agreed. If you're going to say that no topics are off limit, then no topics should be off limit.
Of course, the rest of us should be aware by now that lefties don't always mean what they say - which is to say, they lie.
A public university can't make up its own definitions of terms in order to punish free speech. You don't sign away your free speech rights when you sign up. More often you trust in the university's stated promises of free speech.
See this is where I disagree. You have the right to free speech but no right not to have consequences from it.
Did you not see the part about no topics off limit? What consequences?
There could be a consequence in grades from the QUALITY of his writing, but based on her stated criteria, not for the content.
See this is where I disagree. You have the right to free speech but no right not to have consequences from it.
Yeah the reason squirrels can decide that they hate everything i write and block my IP if they wanted, and they would be well within their right to do so.
I still think being a public school forces greater restrictions on it then a private school.
Like death from a firing squad?
A small price to pay for free birth control.
Of course, there's no special protection of the right not to be lusted after in the Constitution. There is for that other thing.
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife" is scribbled in the margins of my Constitution.
Got me there!
Is it in your wife's handwriting?
I don't see how following the rules of the class can be a violation, unless MI is run by Nazis.
nein. Vee like vymen, especially zee shtacked kind.
Schools typically do have a sexual harassment policy that students agree to abide by when enrolling, so I don't see how his First Amendment rights were violated when he agreed to curtail them when he enrolled.
Public schools don't have the authority to get around the First Amendment through subterfuge by imposing these agreements in the first place. Simple as that.
This.
I don't feel tardy.
I brought my "pencil"; gimme somethin' to write on!
When Is Quoting Van Halen a Crime?
When it's a Van Hagar song.
Sammy Hagar might sing like a wuss, but David Lee Roth actually is a wuss.
Yeah, but does that change my statement?
It does not. I just wanted attention.
Montrose rocked though.
Well, in his case, it was a Van Roth song.
You missed a question.
If someone writes something in a private journal not intended for publication, is it speech at all?
...the three-semester suspension imposed on a student for commenting on the attractiveness of his creative writing instructor in a journal he maintained as part of the course.
Looks like it was part of the course. He was probably getting graded on it and therefore knew that others would read it.
Still, if the teacher actually said any topic was fair game then she should have stood by that statement...
But there is still the question of whether an institution supposedly devoted to free inquiry should be punishing students for writing things that offend their teachers.
The institution is devoted to tuition and tenure.
Fist you are so spot on. Tuition and Tenure is all they care about.
Public universities, Private...it really doesn't matter. All get most funds from the FEDs anyway.
Fuck them all.
The student, Joseph Corlett, says his instructor, Pamela Mitzelfeld, repeatedly assured him that no topic was off limits
Is it true that when a woman says "Yes" she really means "No"?
Maybe.
Judging by the photos I'm gonna guess that Oakland must have a severe shortage of decent looking coeds.
She's not even that good looking!
http://www2.oakland.edu/hc/fas.cfm?ID=6026
Well shit! It's English 380....any warm body to conduct a fantasy around to get the poor bastard through the next 50 minutes.
Wow, a woman like that should be flattered, not angered when a young guy writes a clearly tongue-in-cheek ode to her.
Is your answer affected by the knowledge that Corlett is a middle-aged man who has been married for three decades?
Fuck. That changes everything. Who would want to sit around all day in classes when you got a fucking life to live not available for most people right after high school? Guy is extra super creepy.
Well, I thought I had read earlier that he wasn't a young man but a middle aged guy who had gone back to college.
Not that it really makes much difference, but I bet she would be less weirded out had it been the varsity quarterback...
Oh, well then that is different. Disregard my comment.
Ah, it's okay when it's the campus studmuffin, is that the rule?
I dunno... she looks good to me.
Who you fucking Uggh! ???
Wait, the Honors College motto is 'echo cognitio'? For reals?
That's priceless. Admit up front you just want the students to parrot back to you.
MILF alert!
Maybe in her day. But seriously, much more Mrs. Howell than Ginger.
Corlett is 56 years old, so from his perspective she's (probably) a younger woman, which generally enhances the perceived attractiveness.
Also, TFA says he's been ordered to undergo sensitivity training political reeducation.
She's not even that good looking!
It looks like she used to be.
Oh, this your wife, huh? A lovely lady. Hey baby, you must've been something before electricity.
Thin lips, eyes close together, noticeable stigmata, bags under them, tiny asymmetrical forehead, uneven skin tone that diffuses light roughly instead of evenly like Halle Berry's, teeth protrude; I'm having trouble finding anything to like.
I see that my profile page has been getting lots of hits...ewww, it's from Reason commenters, now I *do* feel dirty.
Keep it slashy, rather.
The guy is definitely a creep, but it's not clear that he committed sexual harassment by the legal definition.
If the instructor felt threatened by his writing, there solutions short of full-on suspension.
It has occurred to me that the second amendment advocacy may be what really set her off given her reaction to it. She has probably grown a thick skin towards the kind of comments the guy made in the journal by now. They are not uncommon, for one. Grading state proficiency exams about a life time ago, I saw that kind of stuff ALL the time.
Someone help me out here: what exactly is creepy about this guy?
He's a guy who was attracted to a woman and wrote about it in a journal. Exactly what is creepy about that? He wasn't stalking her, or talking about how he wants to rape her or wear her head as a hat, unless I missed that somewhere in the journal.
Okay, I hope this helps somewhat. You would agree that typically the opposite of creepy is cool (some famous people like Christopher Walken can do both, but for us mere mortals lets keep this real), correct? There is no cool way to pine openly for another human being. A creep rights love poems, a cool guy will never let a woman know what he feels unless she begs him to.
I don't really equate "creep" to "not cool". I equate it to "possibly dangerous/molesty".
I am torn between the recognition that OU is being thuggish and unprincipled, and the recognition that this guy seems seriously creepy.
OU is being lawless. But the guy strikes me as someone who might have woman-skin suits in his crawlspace.
"Dangerous Student," citing letters he had written to the school newspaper "defending the right to carry concealed weapons on campus."
---------
Blow a methhead and fuck off, Miss Brady.
I don't think his first amendment rights were violated either. He came on to his teacher and she asked him stop. He continued. The first amendment allows you to say your opinion, but there are reactions to your opinion that you might not like.
Coming on to a woman when she asks you politely to stop is kind of a jerk move - especially when it is so explicit. Additionally he would have much better luck if he wrote how he wants to save the baby sea lions or some shit. Most women don't want to be sex objects. He should work on his game.
The teacher bringing up the student's second amendment support - meh. I dunno, maybe this guy just seems crazy.
Anyway, this guy should probably be kicked out of the University because he is an asshole.
Two pages further in the journal, Corlett imagined a (fictional) warning from Mitzelfeld:
What part of this don't you understand?
Do we know that there was not some other kind of informal or formal request by Metzelfeld for Corlett to stop writing about how attractive he found her in his journal? Because that would have been a reasonable thing for her to do before trying to have him kicked out.
Nevermind, addendum from Mr. Sullum indicates Corlett was not asked to stop. They just straight kicked him out. Creep or no creep, that seems harsh.
I honestly missed the fictional part... if he didn't get told not to, then I would side with him.
HE WAS SPECIFICALLY TOLD NOTHING WAS OFF LIMITS.
Not only cant you read, you also cant read.
You are 0fer at least 2 on this article.
I'd say it was closer to 50/50.
No, most women don't want to be objectified unless they like the guy doing it. It's completely subjective on her part.
That is true. If they like you, the usually like a little objectification...
But really, it's best not to start out with objectification...
"I don't think his first amendment rights were violated either. He came on to his teacher and she asked him stop. He continued. "
Completely wrong.
Ooooh! Thanks for speaking for "most" of us, you big, stwong, smart man, you!
Hey, if you are up for sexual objectification, come on over.
I didn't say I didn't enjoy it.
Yeah kick all the assholes out of college. Why would you want to do that and how?
And if you get your committee to expel the assholes, won't you be the least bit worried you might end up on the list or your child?
Naw, I wouldn't end up on the list because in college I just did what was expected of me.
That is actually what they teach there - to conform to society and to stroke your own ego.
That is also why I cannot stand college. Stayed there just long enough to get the piece of paper.
Based on my college experiences, if you kick all the assholes off campus, it'll be difficult to conduct classes since you just booted about half the faculty and most of the graduate TAs.
One or two warnings, then stop reading and zero for the assignment.
Forget sexual aspect. Suppose it was page after page of other sorts of flattery. Or, what if it was all criticism.
The instruction "whatever you want," was mistaken. But the kick him off campus demand was absurd.
It could all have been handled by the professor. The student would have been left appealing the grade. I got a bad grade for the class because the professor gave me a zero on my journal because even after she said anyone could write anything, when I started writing about her, she told me to stop, and when I didn't, she told me I got a zero, and she didn't read any more. Please overrule her unfair grading.
And then, the review committee should say, forget it.
I need a few more details before I can decide what I think about this case.
Is the middle-aged student overweight? If so, by how much? Does he have a comb-over?
The creepy part is his nearly perfect cursive that you hardly see anyone using past 5th grade.
People of that generation tend to have better handwriting than later generations.
It was Carl from ATHF.
Then I don't blame the teacher one bit for her understandable over-reaction.
"I Want to Rock Your Body ('Til the Break of Dawn)"
it's funny but true, actually
a lot of the stuff that people do in movies, tv etc. are perfectly ok if the character is sympathetic, cute etc. but would be awful, grounds for a restraining order etc. if the person was "creepy"
perfect example: lloyd dobler in "say anything" standing outside the girl's house with the boombox over his head playing peter gabriel, in the middle of the night
because lloyd is cute, sympathic, etc. this is viewed as romantic and admirable
if he had been a fat 2nd amendment advocate, it would be a call the police and get a restraining order moment
it's similar to the domestic violence double standard. it used to be ok to joke about male on female DV (see: the honeymooners).
now, that is verboten, but you can write a top-40 song about female on male DV or get laffs about it on shows like friends, etc.
Again, liberal here but also ACLU (the middle CL being the operative letters for me) backer. This is insane that a creative writing journal could be used to slap anyone around, much less suspend them for three semesters.
When I was in high-school we had a journal in our AP English class and I wrote an essay on how badly I wanted to say F_CK, went on for four pages of salacious, outrageous words.
My teacher gave me an A and said he couldn't post it on the wall. I understood.
That should have been the response here, except I really wouldn't give the snippet of writing above an A.
I use to get odes to pot published in the school newspaper. Damn, the 80's were fun!
And yes, Corlett is creepy; perhaps mentally ill.
This is what he got so worked up about? B+
I hope all the students in her next english 380 class write journals about being hot for her.
Why the fuck would anyone pay to be treated like this?
"I cannot feel safe knowing that he might have a weapon on him at any time."
It sounds like he finally found something unattractive about her, just a little too late.
Does she also worry about the monsters that might be in her closet at any time?
I was about to say, I have met many smokin' hot babes that opened their mouths and instantly went from a 10+ to a -10.
I long ago stopped using physical appearance as a primary means of gauging attractiveness.
I like to watch from a distance so they don't have a chance to ruin the fantasy.
Is that creepy?
But his classmates were afraid of him! Jezebel told me so!
http://jezebel.com/5886036/cla.....r-essayist
And he introduced himself as a gun owner, and everyone knows guns are icky!
He's creepy. But this was handled very badly.
Being creepy should not be a punishable offense in the absence of an overt act, especially when a creative writing exercise is assigned with no "you can't act creepy" caveat.
The whole fucking point of creative writing is to show an unusual or provocative POV, which the guy delivered on.
Those people should be shot.
seriously. we see this a lot in campus cases (and of course the war on DV which i say again is worse for liberty than the war on drugs)
the idea that owning a gun, advocating for gun rights, etc. makes one creepy or icky, that it makes people FEEL afraid, bla bla bla
It was a creative writing exercise. She encouraged participants to write creatively.
If she had an issue with his writing, and she publicly changed the parameters of what was allowed, and he continued to violate those new rules, then fine.
But that doesn't seem to be the case here.
I think that the journal was not seen by the teacher until the end of the class or the assignment period. It's purpose was probably to gauge the student's improvement as the class progressed.
If that is the case, she wouldnt have known what was in it until the assignment was turned in and thus had no opportunity to change any parameters based on what the students were writing.
If there were no periodic progress checks, how do you gauge a students' improvement? How do you provide guidance and feedback? Sorry, that's a very poor attempt to provide an excuse. If that's what happened, the teacher wasn't doing her job.
Gosh, I do hope they upgraded the fainting couches in the faculty lounge area. Those factory springs won't be able to hold up from the abuse these delicate flowers will be dishing out.
It's sad that people who are not only grownups but teachers to boot--the folks who are supposed to set an example for their students--can't handle simple situations like this anymore.
Unlike the idiot kids at the school it is pretty obvious that the middle aged man was looking to take the "no topic restricted" to its extreme.
And he expected to be told to tone it down.
He probably didn't expect the professor to be a grade A asshole about it.
She should be fired on those grounds alone.
I think if I had been in Corlette's shoes, I would've told the administrative panel that I would be happy to abide by their findings if while in session they would wear kangaroo suits - head to toe, tail and pouch and everything. That would help keep everything in perspective.
Or, I thought I signed up for creative writing, not creative legal proceedings.
I see a lot of people calling this guy creepy, so, someone help me out here: what exactly is creepy about this guy?
He's a guy who was attracted to a woman and wrote about it in a journal. Exactly what is creepy about that? He wasn't stalking her, or talking about how he wants to rape her or wear her head as a hat, unless I missed that somewhere in the journal.
Some guys are socially awkward, and give off a "creepy" vibe. Everyone does it occasionally, but some people do it all the time, and in extreme cases it is often an indicator of underlying psychological problems. For example, schizophrenics have been found to speak with a distinctive rhythm - and even though speaking with that rhythm is not in itself "bad", observant people will note it and suspect an underlying cause.
That said, extroverts tend to treat introverts this way, and judge introverts to be untrustworthy even though a great deal of evidence shows that introverts are more trustworthy than extroverts. So I am not saying that making judgments based on such "feelings" is a good thing, just that they often reflect real things.
Please no one tell her women suck at math. She may die on the spot.
Just to be clear, I'm not Eddie van Halen, I'm Eduard van Haalen with two "a"s, the famous Dutch musician.
If the article is right, the guy is being punished for (a) publicly declaring that there's no campus exception to the 2nd Amendment (he must have one of those older editions of the Constitution), and (b) being dumb enough to take a creative writing class and (c) using that experience to write his adulterous fantasies, which are constitutionally-protected, of course, don't get me wrong.
I think this guy may have engaged in the greatest trolling episode and, barring a successful lawsuit, it backfired.
Welcome to America, The new Regime!
http://www.World-Anon.tk
oh jesus fucking christ
" Because of his Second Amendment advocacy, she said, "I cannot feel safe knowing that he might have a weapon on him at any time."
that is the kind of crap i see so often. they FEEL they FEEL.
it's always about feelings for libs. what a fucking travesty.
the article title is a little silly since he wasn't charged with a CRIME, just campus administrative bullshit.
the main thing is this. you cannot say "no topic is off limits" then suspend a kid (FOR THREE SEMESTERS) for a topic .
period. full stop
I'm not sure when it really started taking off but I see almost constant claims nowadays that people have the right to be "free from fear", at somebody else's expense, of course.
Personally, I'm not seeing that in the federal Constitution or my state's. Seems to go hand-in-hand with the folks who believe that an entirely riskfree existence on this planet is possible.
In a November 29, 2011,memo to various colleagues, Mitzelfeld called Corlett a "Dangerous Student," citing letters he had written to the school newspaper "defending the right to carry concealed weapons on campus." Because of his Second Amendment advocacy, she said, "I cannot feel safe knowing that he might have a weapon on him at any time." She complained that Corlett's presence had created "an unacceptable and dangerous work environment" and concluded, "Either Mr. Corlett leaves campus or I do." As a result of Mitzelfeld's complaints, Corlett was banned from campus, suspended for three semesters, and ordered to undergo "sensitivity" training.
See? Even talking about guns on campus "stifles academic debate."
I'll go out lightly on a limb and wager that she thinks that any interest in firearms at all is prima facie evidence of mental illness.
Whether he is or isn't a Second Amendment Advocate he might still have a weapon on him at any time! I remember reading a story (possibly apocryphal) about a man in front of judge. The prosecution claimed the accused had been found with burglar tools in his possession and was equipped to commit burglary. The judge said "Before I pass sentence, do have anything to say for yourself?" The man replied, "Your Honor, the prosecution has not proven that I am a burglar, they have merely claimed that I have equipment which may be used to commit burglary. I belief you your Honor, have all the equipment necessary to commit rape."
Check out this official picture of Ms. Mitzelfeld. That blouse is cut so low that her navel is showing.
No wonder why her student got so excited.
http://www2.oakland.edu/hc/fas.cfm?ID=6026