Reason Morning Links: Lobbyists Sink Their Teeth in the Deficit Panel, Pot Tops New White House Petition Site, Senate Republican Wants to Defund ATF Gun-Smuggling Operations

Mike Riggs | 10.18.2011 9:00 AM

The Hill: "Members of the deficit-reduction supercommittee have raised hundreds of thousands of dollars from special-interest groups, including a significant chunk from healthcare interests that want the panel to fail."
Herman Cain meets with Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, retracts his retraction about the electrified border fence, and claims he received a threat of some sort: "When you become a top-tier candidate, a lot of nuts come out of the closet."
Pot legalization is at the top of the "We the People" site, a petition venture the White House launched to show that Obama is genuinely listening to the people he ignores.
Thieves steal $200,000 worth of presidential equipment—including the teleprompter.
Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) pushes to defund ATF's gun-running investigations.
Rolling Stone on how Obama came to support intervention in Libya.
At just 9.1 percent, China's economy is growing at its slowest rate in years.

New at Reason.tv: "Steven Brill on How to Fix Public Schools"

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Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago

Riggs you magnificent bastard.
1. Suki 13 years ago
  
  Seemed a little late here.
  
  Good Morning Links!
Lord Humungus 13 years ago

Coming clean on 'dirty DUIs' in Contra Costa County
http://www.latimes.com/news/lo.....2829.story

A man who once worked for Butler had blown the whistle. He told authorities Butler arranged for men to be arrested for drunk driving at the behest of their ex-wives and their divorce lawyers ? and that entrapment was only one of many alleged misdeeds.

Butler, 49, a former police officer, was arrested in February. In addition to setting up at least five DUIs, he sold drugs for law enforcement officers and helped them open and operate a brothel, collecting and delivering the profits, according to prosecutors and a statement Butler gave them after his arrest.
1. Abdul 13 years ago
  
  This American Life had a pretty good story on this.
  1. Ramsey 13 years ago
    
    You damn commies and your public radio!
    
    JK, one of my favorite podcasts.
2. John 13 years ago
  
  Humungas you bastard!! Beat me to it.
3. John 13 years ago
  
  How are these LEO's anything but mafias? Where is DOJ and the RICO indictments?
  1. Abdul 13 years ago
    
    DOJ unsealed the indictment, which is how we know about this.
    1. John 13 years ago
      
      If you are running a shake down racket on ex husbands as well as a brothel, you pretty much are the mafia at that point.
4. robc 13 years ago
  
  paging dunphy to explain:
  
  1. Why the 99.9% of "good" cops who were the partners of the ones selling drugs and running a brothel never turned them in?
  
  2. Why they failed to turn up the set ups when investigating the DUIs?
  1. johnl 13 years ago
    
    lol
  2. Chupacabra 13 years ago
    
    I think that was a typo. He actually meant 9.9%.
  3. Abdul 13 years ago
    
    It was a former cop who turned the private detective (and former cop) in, along with the crooked cops.
    
    As for the DUI's, if you read the article, it appears the arresting officers weren't aware of the set-ups. They just received anonymous tips to check out guys who were driving drunk. Heck, I've called 911 when I saw what appeared to be a drunk driver.
    1. robc 13 years ago
      
      former cop
      
      Proving my point. Where were the current cops?
      
      As for the DUI's, if you read the article, it appears the arresting officers weren't aware of the set-ups. They just received anonymous tips to check out guys who were driving drunk.
      
      I read the article. But when they investigated the details behind the crime, how come they didnt come up with the whole set-up? What, they didnt investigate? Yeah, sure, guy was guilty anyway, but not investigating lets the accessories get away.
  4. Pip 13 years ago
    
    Who gives a shit what a mall cop wannbe has to say?
Bee Tagger 13 years ago

"When you become a top-tier candidate, a lot of nuts come out of the closet."

Ed Schultz told me it's those white people who don't like black people who appeal to white people who don't like black people.
1. The Ghost of Bertrand Russell 13 years ago
  
  +1
2. Brett L 13 years ago
  
  Did this sound like the Ross Perot the-CIA-tried-to-ruin-my-daughter's-wedding to anyone else?
  1. robc 13 years ago
    
    Any reason to assume Perot was lying?
    1. Maxxx 13 years ago
      
      You mean Poppa Bush's friends in the CIA pushed a paranoid guy over the edge?
      
      That's unpossible.
    2. Brett L 13 years ago
      
      I assume if the CIA had done so, they would have fucked it up so badly it would have made national headlines.
      1. T 13 years ago
        
        The conundrum of covert ops: if you're good at them, nobody ever knows, but your fuckups are out there for the world to see.
        
        The CIA is better at what they do than people give them credit for. And even if they aren't, there's a host of more obscure agencies that are as scary as the tinfoil hat crew thinks the CIA is.
        
        Clich? Bandit 13 years ago
        
        DIA anyone? (and I don't mean the airport)
Rev. Blue Moon 13 years ago

I was right here...waiting with bated breath to be first.

Oh well...silver's OK too.
1. Rev. Blue Moon 13 years ago
  
  Dammit all.
2. Lost_In_Translation 13 years ago
  
  "bated" hehe
DJF 13 years ago

"""Thieves steal $200,000 worth of presidential equipment?including the teleprompter. """

The President has been kidnapped!!!!!
1. Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago
  
  Send in Snake Plissken's Roomba.
  1. wylie 13 years ago
    
    I...would actually watch that movie.
    1. wylie 13 years ago
      
      (as long as it also starred Adrienne Barbeau's Sybian [spelling; didnt bother to look it up, sorry])
  2. Brett L 13 years ago
    
    Heh. I just got a visual of the roomba sneaking up on Snake's blind side and mashing his ankles. Fucking roombas.
2. Question 13 years ago
  
  We'll never have to listen to him again - break out the bubbly!
3. Abdul 13 years ago
  
  I'm sure that was merely the decoy teleprompter.
  
  The president would never be so careless with his closest aide and advisor.
  1. Maxxx 13 years ago
    
    It's Obama's Brain.
4. Teh Thieves 13 years ago
  
  Sources said inside that vehicle was about $200,000 worth of sound equipment, several podiums and presidential seals, behind which only the President himself can stand.
  
  Not any more, biotches!
  1. AlmightyJB 13 years ago
    
    Without the TOTUS we'll surely devolve into cannibalism.
    1. some guy 13 years ago
      
      The First Teleprompter.
  2. Live Free or Diet 13 years ago
    
    That's not theft. That's taxpayers' repossession!
    Taxing the tax collectors.
    1. Ramsey 13 years ago
      
      So when will the thieves send me my refund?
  3. wylie 13 years ago
    
    Not any more, biotches!
    
    I can'yt wait for the youtube address these thieves will deliver.
    
    Even better, post a 30-60sec clip of JUST the podium and The Seal. Then let people bluescreen themselves into the scene.
Lord Humungus 13 years ago

Inflation Pressures Intensify as Producer Prices Jump Higher
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44942965

The Labor Department said its seasonally adjusted index for prices received by farms, factories and refineries, increased 0.8 percent after being flat in August. Economists polled by Reuters had expected prices to increase 0.2 percent.

Excluding volatile food and energy, wholesale prices rose 0.2 percent last month after inching up 0.1 percent in August. That was above economists expectations for a 0.1 percent gain.
1. o2 13 years ago
  
  monetary suplize is stable; no inflation keep dreaming
  1. teh rael o3 13 years ago
    
    ^not me, but M2 is up >3% FY10-11.
Abdul 13 years ago

The singularity is here!

Hipster cop at Occupy Wall Street:

http://www.sparrowmedia.net/20.....ll-street/
1. Ice Nine 13 years ago
  
  Punchable Face Alert!
  1. mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
    
    You ain't lyin'!
Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago

"When you become a top-tier candidate, a lot of nuts come out of the closet."

When you become a top-tier Republican candidate, you must start with the homophobic comments.
1. Lost_In_Translation 13 years ago
  
  whose nuts and which closet?
2. Ice NIne 13 years ago
  
  Punchable Face Alert!
  1. Ice NIne 13 years ago
    
    Damn!
    1. Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago
      
      No, make it your thing. Hit up random commenters with that catch phrase.
      1. WTF 13 years ago
        
        Made me laugh.
Lord Humungus 13 years ago

New York's Marxist epicenter
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/o.....E3Gkki2IvO

I don't advise going down to Zuccotti Park to have a serious conversation with the protesters, given their growing propensity toward violence and the growing revolutionary tone of the movement. But I would suggest that President Obama might want to put a hold on his support for the Occupy Wall Street movement as his 2012 re-election bid approaches.

If he keeps saying nice things about the protesters, the debate among business types and voters won't be whether the president has some socialist leanings, but how much virtue he sees in the thoughts of Karl Marx.
1. teh rael o3 13 years ago
  
  so lesee -
  bourgeous hipsters
  marxists
  anti-semites
  anarchists
  hackavists
  [UNIONISTAS]
  
  imagine, not a fat white-hair suburbanite amongst them.
  1. Ramsey 13 years ago
    
    Part of the solution or the problem?
    1. teh rael o3 13 years ago
      
      chalk it up to varicose veins
2. Brett L 13 years ago
  
  Please. I would love to see Obama get in a slap fight with some hipster who stopped bathing in late September. In fact, I would rent it on PPV.
  1. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
    
    finally, a plan to reduce the deficit.
    1. wylie 13 years ago
      
      Plus, Professional Slap Fighter would become a valid job then, so it works towards Obama's goal of reducing unemployment too!
Lord Humungus 13 years ago

House GOP looks to make legal case in Solyndra loan scandal
http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wi.....ra-scandal

House Republicans are working overtime to show the Obama administration broke the law when it restructured a $535 million loan guarantee to Solyndra, the now-bankrupt California solar company.

Their focus is on the Energy Department's decision to restructure the loan guarantee in February so that investors who provided additional funding to Solyndra would be repaid before the federal government if the company folded.
SugarFree 13 years ago

Hot Chicks of Occupy Wall Street

Tumblr is so edgy.

SFW
1. Abdul 13 years ago
  
  Must be some marxist definition of "hot" which redistributes attractiveness according to the need of the people.
  
  How else to explain this: http://hotchicksofoccupywallst.....1389193970
  1. SugarFree 13 years ago
    
    You have to mix in some older or fatter or just plain dog ugly ones to throw the feminists off the scent. It's sort of a reverse salting the mine scam.
    1. Coeus 13 years ago
      
      It didn't help. They're still bitching about it on Jezebel.
  2. Audrey the Liberal 13 years ago
    
    Oh, come on, some of them are cute (if a bit off their rocker).
    1. Live Free or Diet 13 years ago
      
      Oh, very. But please tell me that's magic marker on the arm of the brunette with the 'dream catcher' earrings.
      1. Ice Nine 13 years ago
        
        Please tell me that's aluminum in her earrings.
      2. SugarFree 13 years ago
        
        Brush strokes, so it's probably some sort of body paint.
        
        Abdul 13 years ago
        
        I think she fell asleep on a wet Chinese menu.
        
        Ice Nine 13 years ago
        
        Vision-impaired version.
  3. Sparky 13 years ago
    
    How DARE you!!! They will not be bound by your neanderthal idea of beauty. You're probably in the 1% you sick bastard.
  4. Michael 13 years ago
    
    Must be some marxist definition of "hot" which redistributes attractiveness according to the need of the people.
    
    I am borrowing this indefinitely. Thank you.
  5. Underpants Gnome 13 years ago
    
    Jesus ... is that Woody Allen?
2. Bee Tagger 13 years ago
  
  The wide range of attractiveness of the girls really makes it impossible to figure out the intended and unintended irony levels on this.
  1. Ice Nine 13 years ago
    
    Yeah, That looks like one of those Mensa "which one doesn't belong" test questions.
  2. Aqua-Assualt Rabbit 13 years ago
    
    They should probably show us their breasts to get the full revolutionary flavor.
    1. Yuno Hoo 13 years ago
      
      They're a gift to all the revolutionary brothers.
    2. Audrey the Liberal 13 years ago
      
      As a heterosexual female, let me say that I have no objection to this.
      1. RoboCain 13 years ago
        
        And it's funny that a homosexual female would be more likely to object.
        
        Audrey the Liberal 13 years ago
        
        "And it's funny that a homosexual female would be more likely to object." You don't know that.
        
        Zeb 13 years ago
        
        I know several who would not object one bit.
    3. Chupacabra 13 years ago
      
      Clothing can be very oppressive.
      1. Audrey the Liberal 13 years ago
        
        Clothing helps hide how fat I am.
        
        rac3rx 13 years ago
        
        If only more people used it for such a noble purpose.
    4. You Asked 13 years ago
      
      Like these?
Joe M 13 years ago

Thieves steal $200,000 worth of presidential equipment?including the teleprompter.

Not the teleprompter!!!
1. John 13 years ago
  
  Instapundit wonders if it was just repo men. You know they do have the right to self help.
2. The Real Barry O 13 years ago
  
  Let me be clear
  
  ...line?
  1. Pip 13 years ago
    
    +$200,000
3. Bee Tagger 13 years ago
  
  Somebody stole my.... line?
4. Mike M. 13 years ago
  
  This might make Obama literally self-destruct, like Nomad in the old Star Trek episode "The Changeling."
  1. Live Free or Diet 13 years ago
    
    error... error... error... error... Error... Error... Error... Error... ERROR... ERROR... ERROR... ERROR... EERRRROORR... EERRRROORR... EERRRROORR...
    BLAMMO!
    
    If that doesn't work, maybe we can trick him into setting his Phaser to overload.
5. Ice Nine 13 years ago
  
  Damn, couldn't they have snatched the vehicle Obama was in instead?
  1. Proprietrist 13 years ago
    
    We should follow Israel's example and offer the President in exchange for the innocent teleprompter.
John 13 years ago

http://www.latimes.com/news/lo.....2829.story

A private detective and various sleazy divorce lawyers worked with various scumbag cops to entrap the exhusbands of their clients into DUI arrests.
1. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
  
  bah - beat you to it, my man!
  1. John 13 years ago
    
    shakes fist in useless anger!!!
2. Abdul 13 years ago
  
  See also: Humungus, Lord @ 9:06AM.
  1. Abdul 13 years ago
    
    Wow, my comment rubbing John's face in being beaten to the punch by Lord Humungus results in me being beaten to the punch Lord Humungus.
    
    Fuck you, Karma!
    1. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
      
      I work in mysterious ways.
    2. Clich? Bandit 13 years ago
      
      story of my life, especially with fantasy football.
Lord Humungus 13 years ago

OWS Mailing List: "Christopher Columbus Was the First Zionist"
http://www.powerlineblog.com/a.....ionist.php

Christopher Columbus was the first ZIONIST ===don't you guys get it? The same colonial narrative?genocide. We must endorse the Declaration of First Nation Peoples, in solidarity, for the plight of all people of color. Cesar and Bahareh, i agree?this is most urgent.
1. Moses 13 years ago
  
  Fuck Columbus. I was the first Zionist.
  1. Yahweh 13 years ago
    
    Forgetting someone?
    1. wylie 13 years ago
      
      I think Moses was claiming first HUMAN Zionist.
  2. robc 13 years ago
    
    Bah, you hit the stone with the rock*, no Zion for you.
    
    *yeah, dont remember exactly why Moses didnt get to enter the promised land, but that was one of his screw-ups, so Im gong with it.
2. MiNGe 13 years ago
  
  JOOOSS!!!111!!
  1. Tony-o 13 years ago
    
    Hey, me too!
3. teh rael o3 13 years ago
  
  MERCENTILIST JOOS !!1!111!!
4. Rev. Blue Moon 13 years ago
  
  Cesar??? No way!
  1. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
    
    http://www.originaloldradio.com/cesar_romero.jpg
    
    or
    
    http://www-scf.usc.edu/~ciccon.....statue.jpg
5. Red Rocks Rockin 13 years ago
  
  Is this serious? An explorer sent by the regime that made the Inquisition famous was an advocate for The Tribe?
  
  Ferdinand and Isabella=Greatest Trolls Ever?
  1. T 13 years ago
    
    They get the title from ICP if that's true.
Joe M 13 years ago

Let the attacks on Ron Paul's economic plan commence:

"This is almost having the economy fall off a cliff,"

and

where Romney's plan focused on job creation, Paul's No. 1 goal is reducing the size of the federal government and balancing the budget, which his plan achieves by wiping out five cabinet departments and gutting funding
1. Bee Tagger 13 years ago
  
  Economists across the political spectrum say the impact of such drastic government spending cuts would be majorly disruptive and harmful to the economy in the short term.
  
  Disruptive? I didn't realize the past 3 years were smooth-sailing.
  1. Joe M 13 years ago
    
    But things would be WORSE without all that spending! Remember?
    1. Progressives 13 years ago
      
      Worse? WORSE?
      
      THE WORLD WOULD HAVE ENDED BY NOW WITHOUT THE EXTRA TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT HAVE BEEN SPENT BY THE MERCIFUL ONE!!
      
      WORSE DOESN'T EVEN BEGIN TO COVER THE CALAMITY THAT ALL OF THE EXPERTS HAVE CLAIMED WOULD HAVE HAPPENED (*does Jedi hand wave* - these are not the same experts who predicted the economy would have recovered by now and that every American would have 2 jobs if only the government would throw $1.4T in to the economy).
  2. Lost_In_Translation 13 years ago
    
    These are the same economists that have been bemoaning the fact that we just haven't spent enough to escape recession, or atleast they're concerned about someone cutting their funding.
  3. John 13 years ago
    
    So second LIT, these are the same people who assured us the Porkulus would reduce unemployment to 8% and TARP would actually fix the banking system.
    1. Restoras 13 years ago
      
      Here are a couple of lovely graphical representations of the epic fail we continue to live through...
      http://cr4re.com/charts/charts.html
      http://blogs.reuters.com/james.....bchart.jpg
      1. John 13 years ago
        
        It is a depression. The whole gig is up. They are just living in denial.
        
        Maxxx 13 years ago
        
        Yep.
    2. Live Free or Diet 13 years ago
      
      Maybe I'm remembering wrong... Wasn't TARP originally sold as being for home mortgages?
      1. John 13 years ago
        
        I remember it being sold as "do this or the world economy will be destroyed". Good thing we avoided that.
      2. Zeb 13 years ago
        
        I think it was originally supposed to be to buy up all of the "toxic assets" created by the mortgage bubble.
  4. Aqua-Assualt Rabbit 13 years ago
    
    majorly disruptive and harmful to the economy in the DC region.
    
    This could make the property values in of the pundits and economists and think-tankers to crater. Can't let that happen. They've still got to get their children through college and make payments on the vacation home on the eastern shore.
    
    Why does Ron Paul hate DC?
    1. John 13 years ago
      
      I think a significant reduction in the DC property values would be a very good metric of success for the next President. The harder DC craters, the more of a success he is.
      1. Kristen 13 years ago
        
        Being a homeowner in the DC area, I wouldn't want to see that happen. But being a libertarian, it would please me to no end to see the DC area get some form of comeuppance.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        I am a renter in DC. So I would laugh my ass off. Nothing personal.
    2. CrackertyAssCracker 13 years ago
      
      Cause its filled with thieves?
  5. R C Dean 13 years ago
    
    majorly disruptive and harmful to the economy in the short term.
    
    And in the long run?
    1. Brett L 13 years ago
      
      Monocles for everyone who is willing to work!
  6. Proprietrist 13 years ago
    
    I mean, I don't deny that cutting 10-20% of the federal workforce in one fell swoop won't have an decent-sized impact in the short term on unemployment numbers. Several million unemployed bureaucrats can't be wrong. I think that's what they're whining about. In the long term though, this action would be hugely stimulative for the private sector.
    1. John 13 years ago
      
      The government has added probably that much in the last four years. It would at worst be returning the federal work force to maybe the dark days of 2001. The country seemed to be okay then.
    2. Kristen 13 years ago
      
      My Fed colleagues live in fear of such big cuts because none of them has any skill that applies outside the Federal bubble. Very few companies have need of a 508 compliance person. Or an OMB budgeting expert. Sucks to be them.
      1. John 13 years ago
        
        I am a veteran. So I am the last person they could cut by law. And I have skills I could use on the outside. It is very uncharitable of me, but I am living for the day they cut my office by about 90%. It would finally give me something interesting to do.
        
        Coeus 13 years ago
        
        Yes, but if that happens, who would argue with MNG all day?
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        No. Thank fucking God.
  7. robc 13 years ago
    
    majorly disruptive and harmful to the economy in the short term.
    
    If true, I dont have a problem with that. Omaha Beach was majorly disruptive and harmful too. But it still had to be done.
    1. robc 13 years ago
      
      Omaha Beach was mjarly disruptive and harmful IN THE SHORT TERM.
      
      Left that key bit off.
      1. robc 13 years ago
        
        Okay, Im just going to type in jibberish, since apparently thats what happens when I try.
        
        qoewjfo;anfoaewihfnoqwenfoqaewnfpoawnfd
        
        Lord Humungus 13 years ago
        
        now taht makes sense!
        
        Live Free or Diet 13 years ago
        
        I thought you made good sense.
        But maybe that's a bad sign.
        
        Jersey Patriot 13 years ago
        
        qoewjfo;anfoaewihfnoqwenfoqaewnfpoawnfd
        
        +1
        
        robc 13 years ago
        
        I figured that would be the best post I would ever make on here.
        
        Maxxx 13 years ago
        
        qoewjfo;anfoaewihfnoqwenfoqaewnfpoawnfd
        
        O2 said the same thing yesterday.
        
        WTF 13 years ago
        
        o2 says the same thing pretty much every day.
        
        mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
        
        I LOLed
2. sloopyinca 13 years ago
  
  From the WaPo story: " scale he's talking about, it's unlikely you could have an immediate reduction in government without hurtling the economy into recession," says Kevin Hassett, economic policy director for the American Enterprise Institute and chief economic adviser to John McCain's 2000 presidential campaign."
  
  Doesn't this dumbass realize hurtling the economy into a recession would be a step up?
  1. Restoras 13 years ago
    
    Exactly. Things have to get worse vbefore they get better and the sooner we just start lopping off the gangrenous parts of the body-politic, the sooner the whole can begin to recover.
3. Rich 13 years ago
  
  By reducing the deficit from more than $1 trillion to $300 billion in just a year, Paul's plan would upend the economy at a time when it's already fragile
  
  With all due respect, when in the foreseeable future will the economy *not* be "fragile"?
  1. bosty 13 years ago
    
    right after we win the War on Terror and the president doesn't need all those secret powers
    1. Chupacabra 13 years ago
      
      And after they've killed all of the pot smokers.
      
      And their dogs.
4. The Other Kevin 13 years ago
  
  Unbelievably, Rush Limbaugh is actually supporting this plan. He either completely ignores RP or calls him a kook.
  1. Joe M 13 years ago
    
    Bwha?!
5. R C Dean 13 years ago
  
  The punch line, of course, is that reducing federal spending necessarily reduces nominal GDP, since government spending is one of the things that gets added up to give you GDP.
  
  The frantic pace of borrowing hasn't actually added any, you know, production or assets or anything like that. It merely pumps up (one might say manipulates) the nominal GDP number.
  
  I'm pretty sure if you ran GDP ex deficits, you would see we have never gotten out of our recession.
  1. Joe M 13 years ago
    
    Oh no, of course not. Moving deck chairs around on the Titanic perfectly captures it.
  2. wylie 13 years ago
    
    since government spending is one of the things that gets added up to give you GDP.
    
    Wtf? "gross domestic PRODUCT", cmon, fucking productivity is built into the goddamn term. How the fuck do they get away with including spending that results in no-gain/loss of productivity?
    1. Joe M 13 years ago
      
      Multipliers!
    2. Red Rocks Rockin 13 years ago
      
      GDP is calculated as [C]onsumption + [I]nvestment + [G]overnment Spending +
      ([x]ports-[i]mports)
  3. Red Rocks Rockin 13 years ago
    
    I'm pretty sure if you ran GDP ex deficits, you would see we have never gotten out of our recession.
    
    I've made that point repeatedly to some of the left-wing sperglords that temporarily visit here--we're spending about 12% of GDP in deficits to get a 1-2% GDP increase, meaning we're actually at about -10% excluding all that debt. One of these nerds even argued that we could continue spending indefinitely with ZIRP and 2% inflation, showing that he didn't actually know how to use a spreadsheet.
    
    It's obvious to anyone that reducing government spending that intensely is going to cause a temporary hit to the economy--it happened in 1921 and again in 1947. But those dramatic drops were followed by dramatic recoveries, and if the same thing didn't happen for the third time, it's most likely due to the fact that the American economy can't be sustained on paper-pushing clerk positions staffed by degreed, over-debted Milennials.
  4. CrackertyAssCracker 13 years ago
    
    The real figure of merit is (GDP-2G)/f(AU)
    
    where f(AU) is some very very smoothed version of the price of gold. Say something that would take 2 years to get 95% of the way from from todays price to zero if gold gold actually went to zero right now.
6. Zeb 13 years ago
  
  The second one sounds pretty positive to me.
Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago

WASHINGTON, Oct. 17 (UPI) -- Legalizing marijuana is the top issue on the White House's "We the People" site, far outpacing other online petition requests, a review indicated.

In keeping with every other Obama White House online initiative, the mandate of this site immediately pivots to reporting marijuana users to the law enforcement.
1. Bee Tagger 13 years ago
  
  The government tells me potheads are really lazy, too, so this must just be a small portion of the actual interest in legalizing marijuana.
sloopyinca 13 years ago

I am gonna coin a new phrase for supporters of Herman Cain. Henceforth, they shall be referred to as "Cain Enablers."
1. Joe M 13 years ago
  
  Nice.
2. Herman Cain 13 years ago
  
  When you become a top-tier candidate, a lot of nuts come out of the closet.
  
  OTOH, America needs to get a sense of humor.
3. SugarFree 13 years ago
  
  Cainablers.
  1. John 13 years ago
    
    Cainables.
    1. SugarFree 13 years ago
      
      Cainabels: The Murder/Suicide Party.
      1. John 13 years ago
        
        Liver, fave beans and Chianti could be served at every campaign event.
  2. Rich 13 years ago
    
    Cain Sugar.
4. Lost_In_Translation 13 years ago
  
  Cainmen
  Caininites
  LoLcains
  Cainen the barbarians
  The harried cains
  Cainers
  1. Drill Sergeant 13 years ago
    
    I Cain't HEAR you!!
  2. John 13 years ago
    
    I like Caininites.
    1. My fellow 13 years ago
      
      ...AmeriCains
    2. sloopyinca 13 years ago
      
      Too Jewish.
      
      Although, that's what my Cain Enablers was also meant to convey. Cain And-Abel-ers.
      
      Aw, neverfuckingmind.
      1. robc 13 years ago
        
        Cain and Abel werent jewish.
        
        They were before Abraham, not after.
      2. wylie 13 years ago
        
        thanks, sloopy, for explaining. I was going to have to ask.
  3. Name Nomad 13 years ago
    
    On election day, you're gonna get CAIN'd!
  4. Butts Wagner 13 years ago
    
    Cain I get a....
5. Abdul 13 years ago
  
  I'm waiting for Herman Cain to break out his Michael Caine impression: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0F3kY3uxU
teh rael o3 13 years ago

moar [JOBZ] 'mericuns wont do -

Belmont stable owners insist foreign workers are needed for dirty jobs that NYers refuse to do
BY Edgar Sandoval and John Marzulli
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS Tuesday, October 18th 2011, 4:00 AM

The New York Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association has asked a judge to overturn the agency's ruling, claiming the move threatens to wreak havoc on the racing season.

New Yorkers, the association says, have failed to respond to help-wanted ads.

And the stable hands who work at Belmont say they know why.

"There are not a whole of people who want to do what we do. You have to wake up at 4 a.m. You have to clean the horses, care for them," said Jose Calderon, 31, who was handling horses at Belmont Park on Sunday. "It can be a dangerous job. If you fall, you risk breaking your back. You also work seven days a week."

He said the majority of workers at Belmont are Latinos.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_.....nyers.html

_
so the hate-me-some-mexicans laws continue to expose the LIE that illegal immigrants take our [JOBZ]...which we wont work.
1. teh rael o3 13 years ago
  
  Belmont stable owners insist foreign workers are needed for dirty jobs that NYers refuse to do at the wages offered to immigrants
  Fixed, herp derp
2. Lost_In_Translation 13 years ago
  
  To be fair, if the Belmont can afford American shit shovelers, their margins are way to low.
3. teh rael o3 13 years ago
  
  YOU LIE - another wingnutz immigrant-wage myth explodes !
  
  in GA & AL, the farmers cant get 'mericuns to work the fields for FIFTEEN DOLLARS AN HOUR !
  1. teh rael o3 13 years ago
    
    of course if they cut off the government entitlements i support they'd be willing to do those jobs for tweleve dollars an hour herpity derp!
    1. o2 13 years ago
      
      ^spoof FAILZ...the local unemployed quit at noon & said the work was too hard & the sun was too hottz.
      1. Maxxx 13 years ago
        
        Those were convicts not the local unemployed.
        
        o2 13 years ago
        
        and the wingnutz LIES just keep coming -
        
        Colorado farmer John Harold decided to hire fewer migrant farm workers for his harvest this summer and supplement his smaller-than-usual team with [LOCALZ].
        
        How did it go? The New York Times reports:
        
        Six hours was enough, between the 6 a.m. start time and noon lunch break, for the first wave of local workers to quit. Some simply never came back and gave no reason. Twenty-five of them said specifically, according to farm records, that the work was too hard. On the Harold farm, pickers walk the rows alongside a huge harvest vehicle called a mule train, plucking ears of corn and handing them up to workers on the mule who box them and lift the crates, each weighing 45 to 50 pounds.
        
        http://reason.com/blog/2011/10.....e-locals-f
4. Red Rocks Rockin 13 years ago
  
  Send this to the OWSers on Wall Street who claim they can't find a job. We'll see if they aren't too proud to get their soft, pink hands dirty, or if they think they should get paid $80K to sit around and play vidya games all day.
  1. o2 13 years ago
    
    the OWS'ers are no diff than the rest of 'mericuns who dont want the [JOBZ] the immigrants take.
    1. Red Rocks Rockin 13 years ago
      
      the OWS'ers are no diff than the rest of 'mericuns who dont want the [JOBZ] the immigrants take.
      
      Lazy and entitled?
Lord Humungus 13 years ago

Rogue Hummingbirds
1. ? 13 years ago
  
  http://data.tumblr.com/tumblr_.....1_1280.jpg
  1. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
    
    thx!
  2. Elspeth Flashman 13 years ago
    
    not the hummingbirds! I trusted them.
rather 13 years ago

"At just 9.1 percent, China's economy is growing at its slowest rate in years."

$65 million a year ain't enough 😉
SugarFree 13 years ago

Sex offender uses Occupy Portland camp as address

Read the comments. Portland sounds nightmarish.
1. STEVE SMITH 13 years ago
  
  STEVE SMITH WENT TO OCCUPY PORTLAND. STEVE SMITH LOST WILL TO RAPE FOR THREE HOURS. THIS RECORD-SETTING DRY SPELL FOR STEVE SMITH.
2. Audrey the Liberal 13 years ago
  
  What's wrong with Portland? *sips PBR* Somebody doesn't appreciate food trucks.
  1. John 13 years ago
    
    You fucking hipsters and your PBR. If you want to have ironic tastes to make fun of beer snobs, why not apply it to other things. Why don't you start listening to the Bay City Rollers and Justin Bieber to make fun of music snobs?
    1. Brett L 13 years ago
      
      With their haircuts, I figured they already did listen to Bieber.
    2. Proprietrist 13 years ago
      
      Yeah, they do. Ironically, of course.
    3. T 13 years ago
      
      Two thoughts, somewhat related. Modern American tastes have gone heavily to sweet. Beer, and I especially note good beer, isn't sweet. Most people are not going to drink something that looks like used motor oil and tastes bitter like real beer. It's easy to mock, especially for a bunch of children.
      
      Two, PBR is cheap. This is important to hipsters as they're usually broke idiots with crappy jobs. Shopping at Goodwill and drinking PBR are only virtues because they're necessary to these yotzes. They don't have enough money to drink good beer and buy new clothes because they spend all their money so they can live in the right zip code.
      1. John 13 years ago
        
        I can see the appeal of lighter cheap American lagers. But PBR isn't the only one of those and not even the best. I would take a straight up Coors banquet beer over PBR or a Natty Bo or a straight Budweiser over PBR any day. It is the conformity that amazes me.
        
        T 13 years ago
        
        The conformity is the mark of a subculture, John. Adherence to the values of the subculture is how you can tell who's a member. It's groupthink to distinguish yourself for the hated other. Exists in all subcultures, and some of the sociology types think the degree of conformity tells you important things about the subculture.
        
        Bradley 13 years ago
        
        What the fuck? Compared to Bud or Coors, PBR is in a class of its own.
      2. o2 13 years ago
        
        slow down T - the know-it-allz here say the hipsters are spoiled lil rich kidz using daddy's credit cardz
      3. Joe M 13 years ago
        
        Anything that looks like used motor oil is generally pretty malty, and therefore sweet. It can be both bitter and sweet, but there's always some sweetness in beer. (Says the guy who loves double IPAs and porters.)
        
        T 13 years ago
        
        Without getting too heavy into beer snob, yes, but the bitter note predominates. Americans like their sweet straight up anymore, with no discordance from bitter. They sure as hell don't want the bitter up front.
        
        I mean, if Americans liked bitter, the best-selling beers in this country wouldn't be light beers made with rice, would they?
        
        Zeb 13 years ago
        
        Those beers are still pretty bitter. There isn't much flavor except for the hops.
      4. Zeb 13 years ago
        
        I would say that most "real" beers are a lot sweeter than your basic pilsner (WTF, my spell check doesn't know pilsner?). There is very little sugar left in a PBR, Bud or whatever after it ferments. Such beers are also fairly well hopped. So I don't think that sweetness has anything to do with mainstream beer tastes. I think that it is mostly that most beer drinkers just want something that is cheap and easy to drink a lot of.
    4. Kristen 13 years ago
      
      They do listen to ironic music. On vinyl.
      
      Loretta Lynn played the 9:30 club a couple days ago, for example.
      1. Brett L 13 years ago
        
        Loretta has earned the right to play wherever the hell she pleases. And anyone who listens to her ironically is doing it wrong.
        
        Kristen 13 years ago
        
        Loretta playing the 9:30 is obviously for the benefit of the ironic hipster masses. You should see my Facebook friends who posted pics of the show - hipsters all.
        
        You should also check out the crowd at Tiffany Tavern in Old Town on Friday and Saturday nights. In fact, I was out on the street smoking on night and a little DC hipster girl (lamer and more uptight-conservative than your NYC or SF hipster) was walking by talking about how "cute" and "funny" the bluegrass is and how they should all go there one night "for laughs".
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        How did you keep from vomiting? That is the reason why I don't go to many shows in DC. Back in the day you could go to a place like the Birchmere and it would be filled with people who really loved the music. Now everything is hipster ironic.
        
        Brett L 13 years ago
        
        I hope you put your cigarette out in her eye.
      2. John 13 years ago
        
        Loretta is a great artists. If those fuckers are listening to her ironically, I pity them.
      3. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
        
        I listen to music on vinyl (and CDs and MP3s). No irony intended.
        
        mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
        
        ^^THIS^^
    5. Audrey the Liberal 13 years ago
      
      I don't drink PBR, though I love five-dollar wine. Plus, hipsters have as much right to be Post-Modern twats as you do to be a TEAM RED whore.
      1. John 13 years ago
        
        Sure, they can drink whatever they want. And everyone can make fun of them for it. If you weren't a team blue whore, you would understand that.
        
        sloopyinca 13 years ago
        
        It's whores all the way down.
        
        Audrey the Liberal 13 years ago
        
        If you think I'm a TEAM BLUE whore, then you are a bigger moron then I previously thought.
        
        Proprietrist 13 years ago
        
        Your name might indicate that, at first glance. Of course, you might also be trying to reclaim the word in the classical/international sense or might be an anti-Democratic Party left-winger. We haven't seen you around here much if at all, so in John's defense you can't fault him for his erroneous assumption.
Lord Humungus 13 years ago

OT: the original (Wh?t's So Funn? 'bout) P?ace Love Understanding
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SZ2eT_T0AI

Written by Nick Lowe, performed by his group Brinsley Schwarz, and finally popularized by Elvis Costello (who Nick Lowe produced).

And a more upbeat live version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l_lPhUcBR8
1. Shmenge 13 years ago
  
  Armed Forces was pretty good, but I prefer This Year's Model. Pretty much anything after that is dreck.
2. johnl 13 years ago
  
  Thanks I've never heard Nick's version before. I like Elvis's better. But I liked Nick's Girl's Talk more than Elvis.
3. johnl 13 years ago
  
  Thanks I've never heard Nick's version before. I like Elvis's better. But I liked Nick's Girl's Talk more than Elvis.
4. johnl 13 years ago
  
  Thanks I've never heard Nick's version before. I like Elvis's better. But I liked Nick's Girl's Talk more than Elvis.
John 13 years ago

http://www.washingtontimes.com.....#pagebreak

The plan

It was part of a plan, a risky strategy to allow weapons to be placed in what agents call the "Iron River" of guns flowing south into Mexico. The goal, of course, was to feed the gun-trafficking network and to identify the big fish, the drug cartel bosses in Mexico who were paying for the weapons.

There was to be no interdiction of the purchased guns before they crossed the border, as frustrated ATF field agents were ordered to "stand down." There was no interest in prosecuting the straw buyers on charges of "lying and buying." Those who put the Fast and Furious operation together had bigger targets in mind.

Eventually, hundreds of weapons found their way to drug smugglers and other violent gangs throughout Mexico, some traveling 1,800 miles south to Acapulco with others turning up 1,200 miles east in Reynosa, near the Gulf of Mexico. Some Fast and Furious weapons also were discovered 1,300 miles southwest in La Paz, on the tip of Baja California.

The strategy had neither a stop sign nor a cutoff switch ? until Dec. 14, 2010, when the investigation came to an abrupt halt. What had been feared by field agents had happened: At least two Fast and Furious AK-47s purchased at an Arizona gun shop turned up just north of the Arizona-Mexico border at the site of the killing of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian A. Terry....

While Fast and Furious was supposed to monitor the purchased weapons as they headed to buyers in Mexico, ATF agents assigned in Mexico had been kept in the dark about the operation.

"I would like to apologize to my former Mexican law enforcement counterparts and to the Mexican people for Operation Fast and Furious," Darren Gil, former ATF attache to Mexico, told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. "I hope they understand that this was kept secret from most of ATF, including me and my colleagues in Mexico."

During a rancorous five-hour hearing, ATF agents assigned in Mexico said they discovered the Fast and Furious investigation only after documenting that an alarming rate of guns found at violent crime sites in Mexico were being traced to Arizona gun dealers.

Mr. Gil said he found it "inconceivable" that any competent ATF agent would allow "firearms to disappear at all," especially on an international border. As a result, he said, Mexico will continue to suffer the consequences of drug-related firearms violence.
The Washington Times Online Edition
??

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'Fast & Furious': How a botched operation spawned fatal results
Overseer promised skeptical agents 'most fun' with ATF
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Seized weapons are displayed at a news conference in Phoenix in January. Weapons like these, which were walked into Mexico, are at the heart of the Fast and Furious investigation under way on Capitol Hill. (Associated Press)Seized weapons are displayed at a news conference in Phoenix in January. Weapons like these, which were walked into Mexico, are at the heart of the Fast and Furious investigation under way on Capitol Hill. (Associated Press)

By Jerry Seper

-

The Washington Times

Monday, October 17, 2011
U.S. Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. says he was unaware of Fast and Furious. (Associated Press)U.S. Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. says he was unaware of Fast and Furious. (Associated Press)
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Story Topics

* Law_Crime
* Atf
* Mexico
* David J. Voth
* Us Attorney'S Office

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The central characters in the failed "Fast and Furious" firearms investigation were 19 men and one woman, all legal residents of the U.S., accused of laying down hundreds of thousands of dollars in illicit cash at Phoenix-area gun shops to buy an arsenal of high-powered weapons for Mexican drug smugglers.

Between September 2009 and December 2010, congressional investigators said, they purchased or aided in the purchase of more than 2,000 AK-47 assault weapons, Barrett .50-caliber sniper rifles, FN 5.7mm semi-automatic pistols and other assorted rifles, shotguns and handguns that later were "walked" into Mexico. About half the weapons remain unaccounted for.

They paid cash, as much as $900,000, and with each purchase they signed their names on Form 4473, a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) document, swearing under the threat of committing a felony that they were not purchasing the weapons for someone else ? that they were not "straw buyers."

But they were, and the ATF knew it.

Most of the purchases were recorded on video equipment mounted by ATF agents in the shops of cooperating gun dealers; other buys were personally witnessed by undercover agents in the stores. Some ATF officials at the agency's Washington, D.C., headquarters could watch live video feeds of the weapons being purchased.

The plan

It was part of a plan, a risky strategy to allow weapons to be placed in what agents call the "Iron River" of guns flowing south into Mexico. The goal, of course, was to feed the gun-trafficking network and to identify the big fish, the drug cartel bosses in Mexico who were paying for the weapons.

There was to be no interdiction of the purchased guns before they crossed the border, as frustrated ATF field agents were ordered to "stand down." There was no interest in prosecuting the straw buyers on charges of "lying and buying." Those who put the Fast and Furious operation together had bigger targets in mind.

Eventually, hundreds of weapons found their way to drug smugglers and other violent gangs throughout Mexico, some traveling 1,800 miles south to Acapulco with others turning up 1,200 miles east in Reynosa, near the Gulf of Mexico. Some Fast and Furious weapons also were discovered 1,300 miles southwest in La Paz, on the tip of Baja California.

The strategy had neither a stop sign nor a cutoff switch ? until Dec. 14, 2010, when the investigation came to an abrupt halt. What had been feared by field agents had happened: At least two Fast and Furious AK-47s purchased at an Arizona gun shop turned up just north of the Arizona-Mexico border at the site of the killing of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian A. Terry.

The agent's death during a firefight with Mexican bandits in a popular drug-smuggling corridor known as Peck Canyon confirmed the worst fears of at least one of the licensed Fast and Furious gun dealers. The dealer had sought assurances from the ATF on two occasions that weapons he was selling would never end up in the hands of the "bad guys."

In an email, the dealer told the ATF he understood the investigation was ongoing so information about it would be limited, but since the border was awash in both guns and violence, he was reaching out for assurances that "none of the firearms" he was selling at the Lone Wolf Trading Co. in Glendale, Ariz., "could or would ever end up south of the border."

The dealer told the ATF he wanted to help the agency with its investigation, "but not at the risk of agents' safety, because I have some very close friends that are U.S. Border Patrol agents in southern Arizona."

ATF assurances

The dealer's email prompted the following response from ATF Group VII Strike Force Supervisor David J. Voth, who oversaw the Fast and Furious operation: "I understand that the frequency with which some individuals under investigation by our office have been purchasing firearms from your business has caused concerns for you.

"However, if it helps put you at ease, we are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques, which I cannot go into [in] detail," Mr. Voth wrote.

Later, ATF arranged a meeting between the dealer and Assistant U.S. Attorney Emory Hurley, the lead prosecutor in Fast and Furious, during which the dealer was again assured that safeguards were in place to prevent further distribution of the weapons.

The dealer had sought assurances after selling more than 300 weapons to straw buyers he knew were Fast and Furious targets. After being told by ATF and the U.S. Attorney's Office that the gun buyers and weapons were being continually monitored, he went on to sell an additional 450 guns.

Less than six months later, the ATF confirmed that two WASR-10/63 assault rifles found at the site of the Terry killing had been traced to Jaime Avila Jr., a suspected straw buyer and one of the Fast and Furious targets.

He had bought the weapons, a Romanian variant of the AK-47, at the Lone Wolf Trading Co.

By the time of the shooting, Mr. Avila had been under surveillance for more than two months. It took ATF less than 24 hours to confirm that he had purchased the weapons found at the site of the Terry killing.

The operation was shut down, and Mr. Avila was arrested, along with 19 others named in a federal grand jury indictment on charges of dealing in firearms without a license, making false statements in connection with the acquisition of a weapon, and smuggling goods from the United States.

Trials for the 20 straw-purchase suspects are pending.

Big purchases

Those identified as the straw buyers in Fast and Furious were nothing if they weren't ambitious. They bought hundreds of high-powered weapons and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars. Although many of the purchased weapons were not top of the line, they weren't cheap.

According to government records, the straw buyers spent an average of $648 for each AK-47-type assault rifle they bought. The Barrett .50-caliber sniper rifles went for more than $6,000 each, and the FN 5.7mm pistols cost an average of $1,130 each.

Uriel Patino, a food-stamps recipient, proved to be the most prolific straw buyer, said the indictment, which alleges that he bought 316 weapons, although congressional investigators said the number might be twice as high. Included were 246 AK-47 assault rifles purchased during 24 visits to two Phoenix-area gun shops over a nine-month period.

Mr. Avila and Mr. Patino, the indictment said, shopped together at the Lone Wolf Trading Co.

According to the 43-page indictment handed up in January, Mr. Patino's buying habits were aggressive.

On Nov. 24, 2009, he purchased five AK-47 assault rifles; on Dec. 11, 2009, he purchased 20 more; on Jan. 15, 2010, he bought 10 more; on Jan. 30, 2010, he purchased 15 more; on March 15, 2010, he purchased 40 more; on March 25, 2010, he bought an additional 26; on April 27, 2010, he bought 10 FN 5.7mm pistols; on June 10, 2010, he bought an additional 10 AK-47s; and on July 8, 2010, he bought 16 more AK-47s.

Mr. Patino came to the attention of ATF in October 2009. Within three weeks, he had purchased a total of 34 weapons, including the AK-47s from gun dealers cooperating in Fast and Furious. The serial numbers of the weapons were logged into the ATF's Suspect Gun Database, which discovered that one of them had turned up in Mexico just 14 days after it had been bought.

"ATF is supposed to stop criminals from trafficking guns to Mexican drug cartels," said Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa, ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, who began the Fast and Furious probe last year. "Instead, ATF made it easier for alleged cartel middlemen to get weapons from U.S. gun dealers."

Kept in the dark

While Fast and Furious was supposed to monitor the purchased weapons as they headed to buyers in Mexico, ATF agents assigned in Mexico had been kept in the dark about the operation.

"I would like to apologize to my former Mexican law enforcement counterparts and to the Mexican people for Operation Fast and Furious," Darren Gil, former ATF attache to Mexico, told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. "I hope they understand that this was kept secret from most of ATF, including me and my colleagues in Mexico."

During a rancorous five-hour hearing, ATF agents assigned in Mexico said they discovered the Fast and Furious investigation only after documenting that an alarming rate of guns found at violent crime sites in Mexico were being traced to Arizona gun dealers.

Mr. Gil said he found it "inconceivable" that any competent ATF agent would allow "firearms to disappear at all," especially on an international border. As a result, he said, Mexico will continue to suffer the consequences of drug-related firearms violence.

Agent Carlos Canino, ATF's acting attache to Mexico, angrily told the committee that "walking guns" was not a recognized investigative technique, adding that hundreds of weapons ultimately went to ruthless criminals in Mexico.

"It infuriates me that people, including my law enforcement, diplomatic and military colleagues, may be killed or injured with these weapons," he said, adding that "never in my wildest dreams" would he have thought that ATF agents would allow guns to be walked to Mexican criminals.

Noting that Fast and Furious ended with the killing of a U.S. Border Patrol agent, one high-ranking former Border Patrol official described the operation as "scary."

"The only thing I can figure is that the politicians in the upper management of the agencies involved decided it would work," the official told The Washington Times on the condition of anonymity for fear of being reprimanded. "They sure as hell couldn't have run it by the agents in the field who would have known what would happen."

There is no rational way to explain gunwalker as a legitimate law enforcement operation or plan.
1. John 13 years ago
  
  Sorry for the long post, Wash Times sort of put it in there before I realized. My sincere bad.
  1. Joe M 13 years ago
    
    Usually they just sneak in the link on a copy/paste, not the entire article.
  2. MiNGe 13 years ago
    
    Look, it makes no sense at all to think this was anything but a simple sting operation gone awry, the Obama administration had nothing but good intentions.
    1. sloopyinca 13 years ago
      
      In MiNGe's defense, I don't think I've ever heard him defend Fast and Furious. Actually, it's been quite the opposite.
      
      That said, heads need to roll, but the mainstream media, with a few notable exceptions, is still playing the ostrich game. I mean seriously? How often does a cabinet-level official get subpoena'd to a House committee because he got caught lying to them about something that had led to arguably thousands of deaths?
      1. John 13 years ago
        
        He won't admit they had a political purpose behind it. Yet, no amount of incompetence can fully explain this.
        
        The smoking gun is that they never told the people in Mexico. How are you suppose to get the "big fish", who are all in Mexico, if you don't tell Mexico about the operation? The only way to explain that is that they didn't want to tell Mexico because they wanted the guns to show up at Mexican crime scenes to appear to be the result of real smuggling from the US. That way they could use that as a club in the control debate. There is no other explanation for not telling Mexico.
      2. R C Dean 13 years ago
        
        I don't think I've ever heard him defend Fast and Furious.
        
        Hard to say. He certainly downplays and ignores a number of facts that indicates that it wasn't just an accident that THOUSANDS OF GUNS were pumped specifically to drug cartels over months and months with no apparent intention of prosecuting, but seems to think this is business as usual for sting operations.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        That's the thing, I don't see any evidence that it was anything but an accident. But you know, a car wreck due to someone's negligence can kill a lot of people too, so that's not much of a defense of it.
        
        My line has been that the "case" that it "must" have been motivated by these grand, covert, political aims has, to my knowledge, been rested upon terrible logic ("what else could it possibly be?"), ignorance ("LE officers never allow or foster sales in illegal goods as a strategy) and 'facts' from dubious sources ("irregular uncle's pajamas .com has an unnamed source who saw an unrealsed document that says...")
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        The facts are they let the guns go to Mexico and intentionally never told the Mexican authorities. All you have are theories you pull out of your ass that "well maybe they were doing this". There is no other rational explanation for why this was done. In the end all you can say is variations of "they would never do that".
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        "All you have are theories you pull out of your ass that "well maybe they were doing this"."
        
        No, that is all you have. You even admit it in this very post:
        
        "There is no other rational explanation for why this was done."
        
        That is TERRIBLE logic. "Well, I can't think of any other explanation therefore it must be X" That kind of logic would be laughed out of even an intro community college logic class John.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        And of course I have much more to support my theory that, as it stands, this looks like a routine (though morally reprehensible) LE program negligently carried out.
        
        1. Everyone admits that LE officers will sometimes allow and foster illegal purchases of goods to catch other and bigger fish doing the same later.
        2. There are actual indictments produced from this program.
        
        All you have is "what else in the WORLD CAN IT BE?" Given 1 and 2 that is pretty gutted, but even sans 1 and 2 that is horrible logic upon which to base an argument. It's that kind of carelessness that has you having to walk back so much from what you post John.
        
        T 13 years ago
        
        My only question, MNG, is when does it cross the line from 'negligent' to 'intentionally malfeasant'? My two biggest issues are the complete loss of the chain of custody in Mexico and not telling anybody in Mexico.
        
        You kind of need those two aspects if you're going to get anybody past the foot soldiers buying and running the guns. Without them, there's no possible way you can accomplish the stated goals of the operation, which is rolling up the entire network. That's why I think the whole thing is, on some level, intentionally malfeasant. You've designed an operation which cannot possibly accomplish what you say it will, and I have to ask: what the fuck did you think you were doing?
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        "You kind of need those two aspects if you're going to get anybody past the foot soldiers buying and running the guns"
        
        No, not at all. Not if the goals included:
        1. Mere intel to use in future operations
        2. Arresting different people on our side of the border
        
        Neither of these are radical, unheard of goals for an LE agency. In both cases you would allow some illegal sales to go on, in both cases it would be near impossible to track down all the goods sold, but you would get something seemingly useful to your goals.
        
        mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
        
        Of course we also have Holder, even after having his hand caught in the cookie jar, insisting that this happened because of the loopholes in gun laws, as opposed to because his agents specifically made these transactions happen, even when gun shop owners were reluctant.
        
        There is malfeasance somewhere.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        That is good logic. We don't know what happened. But we do have a set of facts. So what is the simplest theory that fits the facts? Is it possible that these people could be so stupid that they ran an operation that they knew would get people killed but did it any way to get a couple of later indictments in the US? Sure. But it is more possible that they ran the operation in hopes of the political gain coming from guns being found in Mexico. If you just wanted some indictments, you stop them at the border. If you want to get the "big fish" you call the Mexican police and bring them in.
        
        They did neither. There is no rational explanation for that other than they wanted to the guns to show up at Mexican crime scenes.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        " If you just wanted some indictments, you stop them at the border"
        
        No, because when you move in all the others you want to implicate will har about that and stop doing it.
        
        This is not innovative investigative work John, pretty basic.
        
        "Is it possible that these people could be so stupid that they ran an operation that they knew would get people killed but did it any way to get a couple of later indictments in the US?"
        
        As discussed the other day, WR involved losing HUNDREDS of guns which any sensible person could have known may be used in crimes later. The only difference seems to be the degree of care used to stop this from happening.
        
        As far as simplest solution, never conjecture far-sighted malice when stupidity will explain things John.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        Way to ignore the failure to involve the Mexican authorities MNG. You just pretend that didn't happen.
        
        And yes Wide Reciever lost guns. But they had a plan and made an effort to track them. They just failed. That is different than Fast and Furious. In fast and furious they made no attempt to track the guns. That is why is more than negligence.
        
        1. They never called the Mexican authorities even though they knew the guns were going to Mexico and the "bigger fish" you are so convinced they were trying to get were in Mexico.
        
        2. They never made any attempt and had no plan for tracking the guns after they went to Mexico. It is not that they tried to track them and lost them like Wide Receiver. No, in this case it wasn't even a part of the plan.
        
        Those two facts have been shoved up your ass over and over again. Stop it. There is no explanation for those two things other than they wanted to flood Mexico with guns.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        "They never made any attempt and had no plan for tracking the guns after they went to Mexico."
        
        This is how deranged you have become. Of course they must have made some attempts to track some of them, for that is what is DESCRIBED IN THE INDICTMENTS.
        
        You know, the very indictments your source refers to?
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        The indictments were for people they caught at the border. There was no plan. They followed them to the border and lost them.
        
        If there was a plan for tracking them after they were in Mexico, then show us. Don't just link to the indictment. Cut and paste the part of the indictment that describes the plan to track these guns and how it was supposed to work. I would be curious to read that.
        
        But unless you can come up with, you are left with exactly what I said you had which is "they would never do that"
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        John, it's clear that despite your theory-building you did not take even the basic step of reading the indictments at all. How careless is that?
        
        But back to them, if the goal was to catch different people then you would of course allow some cross-border activity before you swooped in. It's just common sense.
        
        Let's say you were a vice cop and you came across people selling drugs at a playground. Would you just run in and arrest the first person you saw doing that? Of course not. You would set up survellience and watch and document many purchases (and do you think you would then "track" every one of them? WTF?). You would see how extensive, how many people were involved. You would see when drugs were delivered and how many people were doing this. Then, even without trying to follow anyone back anywhere, you would, after allowing a lot of activity, finally move in at some point.
        
        It's so common sense only a fanatic driven by visceral hate of the agency and it mission involved could miss it. But of course you guys frankly admit to that, so no surprise there...
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        You really seem to hang a lot on the fact that they did not let the Mexican authorities know. First, how do you know they did not? What sources do you have for that? Are you sure the Mexican authorities are not just denying any knowledge (there are obvious reasons why they may not)?
        
        Secondly, let us assume they did not. You really cannot think of any reason for that other than your complex nefarious political plot? I mean, it never occurred that maybe they just did not want to have to deal with them? This happens with our own LE agencies all the time, where one should be telling the other of an operation which impacts them but they don't because it would be a pain, or because they are being territorial, or negligent. It's really common John. If they hoped to catch people on our side of the border (which you can and still charge them with this) that makes emminent sense (though it is morally horrible).
        
        This is what critical thinking looks like John. Learn it. Use it.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        You really seem to hang a lot on the fact that they did not let the Mexican authorities know. First, how do you know they did not? What sources do you have for that?
        
        Read the article I linked and pasted. The ATF attaches in Mexico say they were never told. The Mexican government says they were never told. That is from the Washington Times. The people who would have told the Mexicans and the Mexicans themselves all say they were not told. That is pretty conclusive. Do you have any evidence that they were?
        
        And I will ask you one more time. Please explain what the plan was for following the guns to Mexico. If you have a link that explains it, i would be curious to read it. If they had a workable plan, then that is a legitimate counter explanation.
        
        Secondly, let us assume they did not. You really cannot think of any reason for that other than your complex nefarious political plot? I mean, it never occurred that maybe they just did not want to have to deal with them?
        
        But the only way to get the bigger fish and make a case against people Mexico is to involve the Mexican authorities. If they didn't want to deal with the Mexican authorities, they would have just not let the guns go to Mexico. It makes no sense to let guns to to a place where you can't indict or arrest people and not involve the local authorities.
        
        Step back and stop insulting me and throwing out invective and think for a moment.
        
        cynical 13 years ago
        
        "That's the thing, I don't see any evidence that it was anything but an accident."
        
        No, Wide Reciever was an accident. They were tracking the guns all the way to the border and cooperating with the Mexican authorities who were supposed to grab them on the other side. And losing track of a couple hundred guns was so bad that they shut the whole program down.
        
        Fast and Furious is like that, except ten times bigger; and the supervisors were letting the program go on despite the failures; and were deliberately telling agents to take actions so unethical that several of them eventually testified to Congress; and they didn't bring the Mexican government or even their own agents in Mexico into the loop. And the big fish they were allegedly trying to catch and punish (how, no one has ever attempted to explain) were DOJ informants, so no prosecutions would have happened even if they were successful.
        
        The whole thing was a scam -- they only had one objective, to get American guns into Mexican crime scenes in order to create a crisis that will give them cover to act against the rights of Americans (and possibly Mexicans). This is the way they believe everyone else operates (see: Naomi Klein, Shock Doctrine), which lets them feel better about doing the same thing themselves.
      3. SugarFree 13 years ago
        
        He says that sort of operation is routine and therefore their shouldn't be any partisan outrage.
        
        That is a defense of Fast and Furious at it's most basic. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        I'd said its routine, and that the routine if morally indefensible, but hey, it's glossing over lil' things like that that help you hold the infantile worldview you do that keeps you so smug and warm.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        It was clear there was nothing routine about it.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        "According to the 43-page indictment handed up in January"
        
        From your own source. How can you continue to support your conjecture "there just COULD NOT have been any legit law enforcement strategy behind this" when your own source uses, er, an INDICTMENT FROM THE PROGRAM?
        
        WTF?
        
        You guys hate the ATF. I get it. The ATF has a history of heavy-handed murderous tactics. You also don't like the targets of what they do, you don't like a federal role in that. We get that. But you just turn your brains off to make the worst of this.
        
        R C Dean 13 years ago
        
        I question the timing, MNG.
        
        There was no indictment until after the Border Patrol guy caught some bullets. Even though they had much, much more than enough evidence to roll up the US side of the operation long before then. If this was all about getting indictments, what took them so long?
        
        And the claim that this was about rolling up the Mexican side of the pipeline is simply ludicrous, since they went out of their way to keep that side of the border in the dark.
        
        R C Dean 13 years ago
        
        And lets not overlook the "coincidence" that while the ATF was pumping thousands of US guns into the drug cartels, the administration was crying about the number of US guns that were being used by the drug cartels.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        I hope you admit you are frankly trying to rest on coincidence here.
        
        But lets take the timing.
        
        How long do you think on average there is between a federal investigation and later indictments being handed down? I'm betting you don't know and you don't know if this fits comfortably into that window, and yet you throw this allegation out there.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        Really? With both Wide Receiver and Fast and the Furious you had the ATF allowing illegal sales they knew about and could have stopped ostenibly to build cases, gather intel and catch later fish. In both cases many, many guns were lost track of. The difference you think is so profound is they seemed to do an even worse job of keeping up with this than they did in WR.
        
        THAT'S your smoking gun?
        
        WTF? Is this kinder-logic?
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        "gather intel and catch later fish."
        
        But they didn't do that. They never involved the Mexican authorities. The fish were in Mexico. If that was the goal, they would have called the Mexican authorities.
        
        This fact has been pointed out to you hundreds of times on these threads. And you just pretend it doesn't exist. All of your explanations fail when you consider that they never called the Mexican authorities. There is no way to explain that.
        
        And everyone reading these threads realizes that. You are killing yourself with this.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        You don't have to catch them in Mexico John, THIS fact has been pointed out to you several times.
        
        If crime X is routinely occuring in place Y, but involving many people, then if you go and make an arrest in place Y people are going to stop going to Y to be arrested. So you build your case against a bunch of people doing things in area Y before you finally come in and arrest any one person or group there.
        
        This is not rocket science.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        "You don't have to catch them in Mexico John"
        
        So the plan was to catch them in the US? Show me one piece of evidence that says that? Further, if you don't track the guns, what are you going to catch them for? You don't know that they had the guns because you don't know where the guns are.
        
        Just admit the obvious.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        All the indictments involved arrests on this side of the border.
        
        I don't know what their "ultimate plan" was and neither do you (as you demonstrate by asking me if I can produce any evidence that this was the plan, note how terrible the argument is here as well, YOU are the one claiming an extraordinary cover up, I'm the one claiming ordinary activity, its on YOU to produce evidence, not me. My narrative fits with the indictments and common law enforcement strategy, yours is, by your admission, the extraordinary claim. Such a claim needs something more than "what else could it have been?"
        
        sloopyinca 13 years ago
        
        In retrospect, I withdraw my defense of MiNGe.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        You'd be stupid then (but what else is new).
        
        When a LE agency knowingly allows an illegal transfer and that transfer is linked to later harm, the LE is now implicated and at least to some degree responsible for that later harm. So I think whoever had authority over this program is responsible for the deaths of those who perished from the guns they allowed to walk. What more condemndation would you want? Anyone who sees that as a "defense" of it is frankly retarded.
        
        I just don't see the political angle to this based on what we have.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        So you are left with Eric Holder and the ATF being responsible for the deaths that resulted for these guns. But you can't believe they did it to further gun control. Jesus, MNG, you just indicted them for murder. But you can't believe they would have done this for political purposes?
        
        sloopyinca 13 years ago
        
        Political angle? Who fucking cares about a political angle. The action of the ATF directly contributed to the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans because we sold weapons to straw buyers with the express goal of those weapons going into Mexico to violent drug cartels. We deliberately kept the Mexican government in the dark about the operation.
        
        I couldn't give a flying fuck about political goals or angles or any of that shit. A US agency, whose sole purpose is to regulate the sales environment of booze, smokes and guns, completely went out of their way to endanger the citizens of another country as well as Americans on the border.
        
        Any defense of the program simply because there wasn't a political angle is as disgusting a defense as possible. The level of incompetence in Wide Receiver led to deaths, and should lead to convictions. The level of intentional disregard for Mexico's sovereignty and the safety of her citizens in Fast and Furious should also lead to convictions.
        
        Fuck every single one of them, and fuck you too, MiNGe for defending it strictly because "they did it, too."
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        ^^This^^ +1000 Sloopy.
        
        Clich? Bandit 13 years ago
        
        lol
        
        Britt 13 years ago
        
        You know I was watching this show called Archer, and I realize that MNG and John have the same dynamic that Archer and Lana have.
  3. robc 13 years ago
    
    Dude, there is this thing called a fucking link.
    
    I seriously think you should be banned (not permantly, like 1 week) for that. Seriously, if the squirrels are listening, ban this fucker.
    
    Sorry John, but you know you deserve it.
    1. John 13 years ago
      
      It was an accident Rob. Banning is for intentional misconduct. This is strictly a civil tort.
      1. robc 13 years ago
        
        Then send $10 to everyone who tried to read this thread.
        
        You intentionally hit copy and paste and submit. Like cops who "accidently" fire their weapons, pulling the trigger/hitting submit is ALWAYS premeditated.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        No it was the squirrels a the Times site. They stuck all that stuff in there with the link.
        
        robc 13 years ago
        
        That is not how copy/paste works. At least if you are using a real operating system.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        A lot of the sites will put devices into their links that reach out and grab stuff. I cut and pasted like 1/3 of what was in there. And then the rest of it just came up. I know how to cut and paste. This wasn't intentional.
        
        robc 13 years ago
        
        In was still in your commment window before you hit send.
        
        And you cant put "devices" in a link if all you cut is the url.
        
        Pip 13 years ago
        
        Fucking Prevue, how does that work?
        
        Gimlet 13 years ago
        
        Joe's law strikes again!
    2. Obama 13 years ago
      
      I'm sure his intentions were good. That counts for something, right?
2. Joe M 13 years ago
  
  WTF John? Get your copy/paste house in order.
  1. John 13 years ago
    
    I am idiot that is WTF. That was a total accident.
    1. MNG 13 years ago
      
      "John |10.18.11 @ 9:29AM|#
      I am idiot"
      
      True dat.
      
      He did this over the weekend too. Fanatics are always in a rush.
      1. John 13 years ago
        
        I am really sorry that you are stuck defending fast and furious and don't have the integrity to stand down in the face of the obvious. It must be a tough position. But that is no reason to be a jackass to everyone else. You only have yourself to blame.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        John, I submit your propensity to do this (and double post) and your propensity to make half-assed conjectures and fall for dubious sources all originates from your fanatical partisanship. Fanatical partisans are rarely careful about ANYTHING they do, cuz, I mean, the FATE OF THE REPUBLIC IS AT STAKE!!!
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        I submit that you are tedious asshole that no one but me pays any attention to. There is a reason why you and I go back and forth so much. When people like Tony say something, eight or nine people respond. When you say something no one but me pays any attention. So I am the only one to respond. That is because you so damned duplicitous that no one else will bother to go back at you.
3. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
  
  holy !#$#& - I think you need a little more judicious cut-n-paste there.
  1. John 13 years ago
    
    Yes, I know. Kick while I am down. I deserve it. Can't believe I did that. Reasons why Reason should have a registration and edit feature. Mistakes are there forever as it is.
    1. Restoras 13 years ago
      
      They might delete it for you...was it just last week they deleted a whole series of much-too-long, repetitive, troll posts?
      1. John 13 years ago
        
        I would fine if they did. Although at least it was a serious post and not a diatribe on the evils of farming.
  2. SFC B 13 years ago
    
    Throw in some [BRACKETS] and it's Herculesque.
    1. John 13 years ago
      
      I cut off the last four pages where I definitively show that farming is actually a Zionist plot designed to enslave us.
4. Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago
  
  Is it too late to get in on the complaining about that copy/paste debacle? I would really like my personal apology from John, too.
  1. John 13 years ago
    
    Just for you. I am sorry.
  2. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
    
    it's also a comment killer!
5. Jersey Patriot 13 years ago
  
  cool story bro
Old Jay Nordlinger 13 years ago

Sucks don't it?
Mike M. 13 years ago

Hugo Chavez dying of cancer, has less than two years.

So much for that Cuban health care system liberal idiots think is so great.
1. John 13 years ago
  
  Two years? I figured the line to hell would be a bit longer than that.
  1. teh rael o3 13 years ago
    
    and john would be the cerberus of hell acourse.
    1. John 13 years ago
      
      Cash money homey.
      1. Mr. FIFY 13 years ago
        
        Michael Moore will sob like a jilted teenage girl when Hugo takes the big dirt nap.
        
        I hope he goes suicidal.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        For once, someone who actually deserves to die a painful death got cancer.
  2. Restoras 13 years ago
    
    PriorityPass memeber!
  3. Abdelbaset al-Megrahi 13 years ago
    
    it depends on what 'is' is and in 'is dying'
  4. Zeb 13 years ago
    
    Hell is very efficient. That's why we haven't had any serious zombie infestations yet.
2. Ice Nine 13 years ago
  
  So much for the significance of "President For Life" that Chavez thinks is so great.
3. P B 13 years ago
  
  Good for Venezuela, the last thing they needed was to become the next Cuba.
  1. wylie 13 years ago
    
    I would like to applaud PB for finding the nicest way to unobtrusively correct Mike M's post.
    1. mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
      
      Now if only the mods would find in their hearts to edit John's abortion of a copy/paste job.
John 13 years ago

http://thehill.com/blogs/healt.....act-repeal

OBama suspends CLASS Act but doesn't support repeal. It is unworkable but we should still keep it.
1. Joe M 13 years ago
  
  They need it for its accounting fiction powers.
  1. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
    
    it's pretty much a symbol (allegory?) of the entire Federal government.
    
    *runs from the Flowers By Irene van*
2. Restoras 13 years ago
  
  Yes, because for the egomaniacs in power this probably still counts as a success in thier minds.
H. Reardon 13 years ago

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) pushes to defund ATF's gun-running investigations.

The article says nothing of the sort. The proposed bill is to defund gun-running operations. Nice job at misrepresenting his position.
1. Joe M 13 years ago
  
  Yeah, I was going to say, why would a Republican want to defund the investigation?
2. wylie 13 years ago
  
  anyone else misread "Sen. John Cornyn" as "Sean Connery"?
  1. sloopyinca 13 years ago
    
    I was closer to reading Hugh Cronin.
Joe M 13 years ago

The Other Kevin is right: Rush Limbaugh praises Ron Paul's economic plan.
John 13 years ago

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....LEFTSecond

Harold Koh (and no I am not cutting and pasting anything I have learned my lesson) when Bush was President (torture horrible), working for Obama (you can drone strike and kill pretty much anyone, anywhere, any time).
Makes Sense 13 years ago

It's a den of thieves!

Occupy Wall Street protesters said yesterday that packs of brazen crooks within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind, making off with pricey cameras, phones and laptops -- and even a hefty bundle of donated cash and food.

"Stealing is our biggest problem at the moment," said Nan Terrie, 18, a kitchen and legal-team volunteer from Fort Lauderdale.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/l.....z1b8rIiEkA
1. John 13 years ago
  
  If you were a hustler in New York, that is a target rich environment. A bunch of dumb kids living on the street with expensive stuff. I bet they are getting robbed blind. Probably not by each other. But by enterprising local criminals.
  1. Mike M. 13 years ago
    
    If so, the local criminals must be using gas masks. The latest reports I'm hearing is that the stench in Zuccotti Park is approaching the level of a sewage treatment plant.
    1. Zeb 13 years ago
      
      One can get used to almost any odor.
  2. Red Rocks Rockin 13 years ago
    
    A bunch of dumb kids living on the street with expensive stuff. I bet they are getting robbed blind.
    
    In an environment where they think everyone is on their side, no less. No wonder they're seen as easy marks--even TTT pickpockets are probably having a field day.
2. Elspeth Flashman 13 years ago
  
  once upon a time, I had some friends who would have parties where bands would play. It was called a "house show." Wonderful things happened there, it was a lot of hipsters, punkers, and others hanging out (harps play in the background). But lots of shitty things would happen there, and my friends got ripped off a lot from people they'd invited into their house . . . hmm, seems kinda familiar.
  1. John 13 years ago
    
    Talk to anyone who was ever actually on Height Ashbury in the late 1960s. After about 1966, it was nothing but a criminal underworld of pimps and drug dealers. There was nothing glamorous or fun about it. It was mostly a bunch of dumb kids who had run away from home and were being victimized.
3. R C Dean 13 years ago
  
  Occupy Wall Street protesters said yesterday that packs of brazen crooks within their ranks have been robbing their fellow demonstrators blind,
  
  (1) Charity begins at home?
  
  (2) How is this not "redistribution" of the sort they are advocating?
  
  (3) What are a bunch of protestors crying poverty doing with all those pricey electronics?
4. johnl 13 years ago
  
  How do you pay $5,500 for a Macintosh?
  1. mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
    
    I don't knw where the fuck they've been shopping, but I've had SEVERAL Macs in the last decade, and I haven't even come CLOSE to spending that kind of cheese on just one.
5. johnl 13 years ago
  
  How do you pay $5,500 for a Macintosh?
6. mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
  
  Now only if they could expand that anecdote to their entire movement they might have something.
P Brooks 13 years ago

Buried in John's wall of text link is this:

Because they were "increasingly concerned and alarmed," he said, he and several other strike force agents took the matter to their bosses, including Mr. Voth, but to no avail. Instead, he said, they received an email they regarded as a "direct threat to the agents who were not in agreement" on how the operation should be run.

"Based on my 18 years of experience with the ATF, I did not think the email was an empty threat. I took it very seriously," Mr. Casa said.

In that March 12, 2010, email, Mr. Voth told the agents that "close attention" was being paid to Fast and Furious by "people of rank and authority" at ATF headquarters in Washington.

"It may sound cheesy, but we are 'The tip of the ATF spear' when it comes to Southwest border firearms trafficking. I will be damned if this case is going to suffer due to petty arguing, rumors or other adolescent behavior," Mr. Voth wrote. "If you don't think this is fun, you're in the wrong line of work ? period!

"This is the pinnacle of domestic U.S. law enforcement techniques. After this, the toolbox is empty," he wrote. "Maybe the Maricopa County Jail is hiring detention officers, and you get paid $30,000 (instead of $100,000) to serve lunch to inmates all day. We need to get over this bump in the road once and for all and get on with the mission at hand. This can be the most fun you have with ATF, the only one limiting the amount of fun we have is you!"

Mr. Voth summed up the Fast and Furious program in an April 2010 memo, saying the violence in Mexico "is severe and without being dramatic, we have a sense of urgency with regards" to Fast and Furious. He noted that the straw buyers had purchased 359 firearms during the month of March 2010 alone, including numerous Barrett .50-caliber rifles.

"I believe we are righteous in our plan to dismantle this entire organization, and to rush in to arrest any one person without taking into account the entire scope of the conspiracy would be ill-advised to the overall good of the mission," he said.

This Voth motherfucker is criminally inssane. He should be on Death Row.
1. John 13 years ago
  
  No kidding. That last email is deranged. Next time I will leave the cutting and pasting to the professionals.
2. bosty 13 years ago
  
  The way he keeps using the word "fun" creeps me out the most.
  
  I keep picturing Walter White's DEA brother-in-law Hank..
3. sloopyinca 13 years ago
  
  Voth is a fucking lunatic, but that still doesn't excuse the cocksuckers who were more concerned with keeping their jobs than they were with doing the right thing.
  
  Fuck every one of them that uses the "just following orders" excuse. They were on the front line. They could have stopped it with a few anonymous calls to any number of investigative journalists, the IG's office or any number of Congresscritters.
  
  As far as I'm concerned, they should all be in prison.
johnl 13 years ago

When El Hermanator says "nuts" he means reason readers and Ron Paul supporters.
sarcasmic 13 years ago

Chewbacca shaved his face and then helped some people paint their home.
What a nice guy what wookie is.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....-home.html
1. John 13 years ago
  
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/fem.....erbra.html
  
  The wonderbra chick is awesome. If you call her fat, you really do play on the other team.
  1. sarcasmic 13 years ago
    
    Sorry about your mom.
    
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....ssbow.html
    1. John 13 years ago
      
      So I take your insult to mean that you really do think that woman is fat? I pity you.
      1. sarcasmic 13 years ago
        
        I didn't even go to the link.
        After looking at it, no she's not fat. A little tall for my personal taste, but not fat by any stretch of the imagination.
    2. John 13 years ago
      
      Did you see this? Honestly, that woman rolling around in a large pile of bills might be the most attractive thing I have ever seen.
      
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....llion.html
      1. Proprietrist 13 years ago
        
        And she looks even better when viewed in monocle vision.
      2. JW 13 years ago
        
        Except that this is dad. He even creeps me out.
  2. Abdul 13 years ago
    
    How do you hate Gwyneth Paltrow and like the Wonderbra chick?
    1. John 13 years ago
      
      The wonder bra chick is a solid 15 years younger.
      
      The wonder bra chick has boobs
      
      The wonder bra chick has a better face.
      
      Palthrow was not bad when she was in her 20s. Hell she was downright hot in Great Expectations. But she has gone down hill really fast.
      1. Abdul 13 years ago
        
        Boobs? Don't be fooled--it's the Wonderbra. Without it, they're both flat-chested. NTTAWWT
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        She is no Eva Herzigova, another fatty in Sarcasmic's twisted world view, but she is hot. And the bra can only do so much. She is a solid B cup, which is more than Palthrow.
        
        sarcasmic 13 years ago
        
        I didn't say Eva's fat. I said Jennifer Love Hewwit is fat.
      2. sarcasmic 13 years ago
        
        GW's got boobs.
        
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....Italy.html
        
        Not bad for a mother of two.
        
        sarcasmic 13 years ago
        
        *GP*
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        She is nasty looking. Boney legs and wrinkled face.
        
        Abdul 13 years ago
        
        Whatev's. You're just one more guy not in line behind me, sarcasmic, and the bass player from Coldplay.
        
        John 13 years ago
        
        I thought it was the lead singer?
        
        Shmenge 13 years ago
        
        He can be both
        
        Britt 13 years ago
        
        Like Geddy Lee!
    2. sarcasmic 13 years ago
      
      I know, huh?
  3. Restoras 13 years ago
    
    I concur.
2. Pope Jimbo 13 years ago
  
  Look at the top left pic. Is Chewie showing a bit of whale tale?
  1. sloopyinca 13 years ago
    
    Thanks a lot, asshole. Now I've got to clean the projectile vomit off of my walls.
    1. Pope Jimbo 13 years ago
      
      W00T
      
      I own a lot of shares in SC Johnson, makers of Windex. I'm just doing my share to drive up demand.
3. sloopyinca 13 years ago
  
  "Mrs Obama and Jill Biden also going to the World Series on behalf of vets"
  
  Why? Couldn't they find any vets to go on their own behalf? I swear, Chewbama and her extravagance on he taxpayer's dime better be a campaign topic next year.
  1. sarcasmic 13 years ago
    
    She's milking it for all she can, eh?
P Brooks 13 years ago

Here's another thing that just doesn't make sense about this Fast and furious deal. The cartels can go anywhere in the world and get guns in large numbers; full auto AKs, ready to go, by the pallet. Why would they fuck around sending crackhead losers to gun stores in Arizona to buy them one at a time, at retail?
1. John 13 years ago
  
  They didn't and wouldn't. Do you think people like the North Koreans or the Iranians ask for ID? Small military arms are very easy to get anywhere in the world. It is completely stupid and pointless to come to the US and get them.
  
  And of course they were not getting them from the US. But the Obama administration wanted them to get their guns in the US so they could use that as an excuse for more gun control. It is the only explanation that makes sense.
SugarFree 13 years ago

Watch Shia LaBeouf get hit in the face
1. John 13 years ago
  
  Who is Shia LaBeouf? And that dude he pissed off is way to big for from some scrawny hipster to be mouthing off to.
  1. SugarFree 13 years ago
    
    He's a shitty actor who stars in Micheal Bay's awful movies.
    1. Brett L 13 years ago
      
      I guess you're one of those people who doesn't acknowledge the other Indiana Jones movie?
      1. Zeb 13 years ago
        
        That really wasn't as bad as I had expected.
    2. robc 13 years ago
      
      I liked him in Disturbia.
      1. sloopyinca 13 years ago
        
        He was quite good in "The Greatest Game Ever Played."
2. Brett L 13 years ago
  
  Ah, SF, you always bring me the best in ultraviolence.
3. Abdul 13 years ago
  
  Shirtless man pummels talentless celebrity in brainless encounter
  1. Elspeth Flashman 13 years ago
    
    +1
    1. Brett L 13 years ago
      
      Love the handle.
    2. R C Dean 13 years ago
      
      Ditto.
      
      For you Flashman fans, the Books on Tape versions are simply brilliant. Superbly read.
      
      Also sadly out of, err, print. Although I hear you can pick up pirated versions on disc.
      1. Elspeth Flashman 13 years ago
        
        thanks! I haven't read all the Flashman series, but someday I aspire to.
  2. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
    
    I first read that as 'taintless'.
4. Nipplemancer 13 years ago
  
  that's just great. I fucking hate that guy.
Brett L 13 years ago

It's not quite the Mr. Fusion model, but DeLorean to release all electric DMC-12.
1. John 13 years ago
  
  Amazing that the guy who designed the GTO and the Trans Am could be reduced to that.
  1. Lord Humungus 13 years ago
    
    well, the original GTO was just a Lemans with a bigger engine. The original '67 Firebird was just a Camaro with some quick bumper and engine changes.
    
    Of course GM was a notoriously conservative company, so Delorean was lucky to get away with what he did.
    1. Pip 13 years ago
      
      I was a motor-head at 20. One of the gang had a blue, 1967 GTO convertable. 100% metal. Absolutely gorgeous. His dad backed into it and dented a door. The guy repaired it by replacing the entire door straight from the factory.
      
      Then he lost his job and had to sell the car. Within two days, the idiot that bought the thing totaled it.
      
      Prior to totaling, it looked like this:
      
      http://ultimategto.com/pow/pow0521awa.jpg
      1. John 13 years ago
        
        That is a beautiful car. I think the GTO peaked in the mid 60s. I don't like the later "Judge" versions. They were just ridiculous. I like the understated earlier models. If I want to spend six figures on a ridiculous looking muscle car, I will buy a Super Bird, that looks totally over the top and would eat a Judge for lunch at the track.
2. RoboCain 13 years ago
  
  He needs to get off the coke, there is no way Lithium-ion batteries can generate 1.21 gigawatts.
  1. Brett L 13 years ago
    
    "jigawatts". That must confuse the hell out of kids who grew up with gigabytes.
3. johnl 13 years ago
  
  There was a famous perpetual motion machine scam that used an electric conversion DeLorean as a prop: http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/delorean_ev2.html
Mike M. 13 years ago

Washington sets new spending record for Fiscal Year 2011 at $3.6 trillion.

Defense spending increased 1.2%, Medicaid was up 0.9%, and Medicare was up 3.9% (so much for Obamacare). The biggest increase in spending? Interest payments on the national debt rose by a staggering 16.7%! Bad news indeed for all the young children and grandchildren out there.

About the only good news is that federal receipts went up by 6.5%, with income tax revenue going up by 21.6% in spite of the still bleak employment picture. This yet again puts the lie to the liberal claim that taxes are the problem.
P Brooks 13 years ago

As far as I'm concerned, they should all be in prison.

I hope you're not waiting for me to disagree.
Old Mexican 13 years ago

Herman Cain meets with Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, retracts his retraction about the electrified border fence, and claims he received a threat of some sort: "When you become a top-tier candidate, a lot of nuts come out of the closet."

Uh-oh... I think he's on to me...
1. T 13 years ago
  
  You were outed as a nut long before Herman Cain was a 'top-tier' candidate, OM. He's thinking of somebody else.
Old Mexican 13 years ago

Thieves steal $200,000 worth of presidential equipment?including the teleprompter.

The president is, of course, heartbroken.
Old Mexican 13 years ago

At just 9.1 percent, China's economy is growing at its slowest rate in years.

Pretentious bastards!
1. jcalton 13 years ago
  
  America would kill somebody's country to have a growth rate like that.
  
  We're invading as fast as we can, but it's not working.
James Hale 13 years ago

I am a disabled veteran with psych and physical ailments from my military accomplishments between 1990-1993. I was on 7 psych medications and chose to stop taking them over a year ago. I have a service dog (MARLEY) she helps with my anxiety levels but without me using "Black-market" marijuana its harder for me to control, without marijuana the ARTHRITIS in my back would be more painful. I have a young friend of mine who is diagnosed with MS (multiple sclerosis) he too benefits from the effects. I say to you the readers KNOW-THE-FACTS?..If it's legalized it too would stimulate the economy by shutting down unneeded prisons and government spending on prison guards , low-level law officials and programs like" NARK" and "DARE" that eat at local community budgets. These are local programs formed by the government under the "war on Drugs" with money bribes to your local politicians. why do you think we all want to know now "WHERE DID THE MONEY GO ?" The budgets are done every year the money is hidden in programs!!!Have we forgotten we gave IRAQ "GRANTS" to rebuild not LOANS ? How about the tsunami $$ to Japan to rebuild or to Indonesia to rebuild OR HAITI after their earthquake to rebuild ? I have an IDEA use US tax dollars to help the USA???.The sad part is we the people didn't vote for that congress did for us. when we have a crisis we don't have the money . Not to mention the new STATE "regulation" on pain medication means I now have to drive to my doctors once a month instead of once-every 3. The raise they are considering for SSDI is a joke compared the the gas$ increases over the past 3yrs. WE keep writing laws that keep LOW-income, LOW-income. wall-street has the gas market cornered their job is to make their investors money, it's congress that's spending our money and draining the purse not WALL street. Try sleeping at night knowing the country i was injured protecting is the same country I'm now fighting to legalize an" alleviation" from my symptoms.
Nike Dunk Shoes 13 years ago

thanks

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