Reason.tv: Couple Heading to Court after Hosting Home Bible Study! (Nanny of the Month, Sept 2011)

Nanny of the Month turns two-years-old this October, and the busybodies who mind your own business show no signs of letting up.

Take formerly dog-friendly New York City which has banished man's best friend from any establishment that serves food or alcohol (and that includes outdoor patios!). Then there's Michigan Gov. Rick Snyner who's tackling childhood obesity by introducing a statewide database to keep anonymous tabs on kiddies' weight.

But the this very special nanny comes to us from a California city that is fighting (and fining) a couple that hosts Bible studies at home. Presenting Reason.tv's Nanny of the Month for September 2011: San Juan Capistrano City Attorney Omar Sandoval!

The city slapped Chuck and Stephanie Fromm with fines totalling $300 for violating a municipal code which prohibits religious, fraternal, or nonprofit organizations from meeting on residential property without a conditional use permit (CUP). The Fromm's gatherings can attract as many as 50 people and the city says that causes parking problems, but the Fromm's disagree saying there is plenty of parking in their semi-rural neighborhood where large homes sit on even larger lots (the Fromm's lot includes a corral, barn, and large lawn). The Fromms have held their gatherings since 1994 and say their neighbors support them, except for one woman whose recent complaint sparked city action.

The city is threatening to impose steeper fines if the Fromms continue their un-permitted gatherings, claiming that "zoning and building codes treat residences differently than places of public assembly because of public welfare and safety reasons."

The Fromm's are appealing the fines and refuse to apply for a CUP because they could face thousands of dollars in expenses that could include conducting traffic studies and making their home wheelchair accessible.

Next stop is Superior Court.

Approximately 1.20 minutes.

"Nanny of the Month" is written and produced by Ted Balaker. Opening animation by Meredith Bragg.

Go here to watch previous Nanny of the Month episodes.

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Comments

[Tim]

In the old country we'd just feed them to the lions.

[wayne]

Everything else is illegal, so we might as well ban home gatherings as well.

[Pro Libertate]

If you have a party, does that create the same problem? Or is this a content-based discrimination of some sort?

I've always wondered how this all jibes with the freedom of association.

[Fist of Etiquette]

They're free to associate, so long as they pay up first.

[cynical]

Awesome, that means my plan to institute a thousand dollar poll tax can proceed.

[Colonel_Angus]

I'm sure this bullshit town has a different set of ordinances to deal with parties.

[Realist]

So there should be no zoning laws?
I know many libertarians are against zoning laws....unless it affects them.

[BakedPenguin]

Who is it affecting?

Neighbors have written letters to the city in support of the Fromms, whom they said have not caused any disturbances with the meetings, according to PJI.

[Pro Libertate]

See, this is where this all falls apart. Ve haf rules! See!

While discretion can be bad, too, as it gives petty little tyrants too much power, lack of discretion is also bad.

[BakedPenguin]

Well, "a regular basis" isn't entirely clear. While twice a week would almost certainly qualify, would once a month? Once every other week?

[Colonel_Angus]

There should be no zoning laws. Fuck you.

[Realist]

Sounds good shit head. I will buy the houses around you, tear them down and start a rock crushing plant.

[Max]

Omar is just mad about Councilman Reeves dog and is lashing out.

[Barry D]

Man, SJC is one screwed-up place.

[Mr. FIFY]

Maybe that dog wrote the racist Ron Paul newsletters, Max. Go sniff out the link, boy!

[kilroy]

Jesus Fucking Christ! An environmental impact study? Why can't CA just fall into the Pacific already?

[cthorm]

SJC, about 5 minutes from where I live, is deep in Orange County, the supposed "island of sanity" within the sea of madness that is CA. It's all relative.

[Almanian]

Fucking free association, how does it work?

This is where it does help to be on a *private* drive - we only have the Homeowners' Assoc to face, and our neighbors are cool, so no fines if you keep things fairly reasonable.

And no fucking CITY ATTORNEYS involved.

Also, fuck California.

That is all.

[zeroentitlement]

I wonder how far this would've got if the Fromms had been hosting weekly whine-ins for green or diversity activists.

It's been going on since 1994 and one old bitch has got her Depends in a wad over it. One. In 17 years. Which tells me that the Bible thumpers are not parking in or blocking anyone's driveways, lawns, mailboxes, etc., and they're not creating a nuisance or making a lot of noise.

Off topic, but that's an awesome rock wall and gate those Fromms have.

[Aqua-Assualt Rabbit]

They would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for that darn little old lady.

I wonder if they do snake handling?

[Tim]

Isn't California where they roped all those kids together to sing Obama hymns for you tube?

[Episiarch]

So are people not allowed to have Christmas parties? What about having a bunch of family members over for Thanksgiving?

[Pro Libertate]

Well, if they're federally recognized holidays, then federal supremacy comes into sway, and local rules are thereby trumped. In fact, I believe failure to allow federally blessed celebrations is an act of war, allowing chastisement by drone.

[John]

True. But your permits still have to be in order. And there can't be any bible or Constitution reading or other un-American activities.

[Realist]

John the Baptist has spoken!

[Tim]

What of the Commerce Clause gentlemen?

[John]

It is shit like this that makes the charges leveled by liberals that Libertarians are extremists who value liberty over all over values truly sickening. Damn straight they value liberty over everything else. Because when you don't, this is where you end up.

[Libertymike]

more than love, liberty is the lifeblood and spirit and savior of man. No liberty = no love. No liberty = no prosperity.

[Jim Hlavac]

This is just weird, and dangerous.

You know, I grew up with a large family, 20 -40 relatives over every weekend at my house. Now, I have a 20 to 30 people party once a month at my house. What? Are these all to be suspect and subject to government review? And while I don't live in CA, and would not, this sort of thing starts to grow; first one town, then a city over there; next a county across the state, and pretty soon every burg in the nation will have this law and permitting process -- for public health and community safety and the environment.

I would imagine this law is unconstitutional on so many levels; and yet, is that what the challenge is? Or merely that this group doesn't fall under the law, but perhaps some other group does? This is the sort of stuff that must be stopped before it gets to popular with other nanny statists get wind of it.

[Tim]

You need a pissed off neighbor who is willing to use obscure zoning ordinances against you. As anyone who reads Reason knows, these people are surprisingly common.

[Groovus Maximus]

It wouldn't surprise me if Shriek was behind this somehow, though I didn't see any references to a drooling, poo-flinging, bi-polar, schizo screaming "ChristFags! Shits! BibleBlowers! The fuck you say? MunicipalBonds! Sheep boffing and Intrade all-the-way baby! MEDS!!!1!!one!!!!"

[John]

These things just become a vehicle to pick on those that the government and society doesn't approve. As someone mentioned above, if this had been a Prog or a Greenie whine in, chances are the city wouldn't have acted on the complaint.

[Max]

A lot of this kind of bullshit is driven by personal animus with no overt political content at all.

[John]

True. But it becomes a way to brutalize outsiders because that is just how human beings roll.

[Warty]

So it seems our cutie pie is off the hook for killing their cutie pie. USA! USA! USA! USA!

20:50 The judge says Knox has won her appeal, she is cleared. Raffaele Sollecito is also cleared. He says the evidence is "not reliable" and cannot be sustained.

[John]

I was just trying to get the Telegraph Website to load. Wow. I bet the Limeys are pissed. Who gets to be the first to date her?

[John]

Also, I wonder how much Playboy has offered her.

[Tim]

Girls of acquitted of murderland.

[John]

Four words, Casey Anthony lesbian shots.

[BakedPenguin]

I'd buy that one.

[John]

And it is nine pm over there. What is up with the Italians holding court at nine at night?

[Warty]

Those greasy goofballs eat dinner at midnight. Who knows why they do anything they do?

[John]

My wife said it best, if the Italians can't make a reliable car, how can they be expected to master DNA?

[svenson]

Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati.

The only thing that is reliable about an American car is that it guzzles fuel and taxpayer's money.

[tarran]

I think it's because Knox's attorney is a MP in the Italian legislature. They've been holding the appeal trial on Saturdays only in order to conform with the attorney's schedule. He probably wasn't willing to stick around in that podunk town a single more day than absolutely necessary.

[kinnath]

They're more civilized that we are I suppose.

[tarran]

I am shocked - shocked I tell you! - that Miningi - falsely and without evidence - accused people of committing satanic-ritual murders a second time in his illustrious career.

[John]

No kidding? Is Janet Reno the AG over there?

[tarran]

John, I wish I was shitting you, but I am not: He accused 20 people, including a journalist who wrote a book on the murders in question, of being mambers of a satanic cult killing young lovers in the countryside.

Even though all the Monster's victims were shot with the same gun, Mignini told a court that it wasn't the work of a single serial killer. Rather, Mignini described an elaborate conspiracy of 20 people, including government officials and law enforcement officers, who made up a secret society behind the Monster killings.

Mignini indicted the 20 people and charged them with the concealment of Narducci's murder, and laid out a hard-to-follow plot that included body doubles and featured Narducci's body being swapped - not once, but twice!

[John]

Wow. That is just astounding.

[Colonel_Angus]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

That's three out of five. Four, maybe, if the group has a newsletter.

[Libertymike]

I note that there are no 'time, place and manner" restrictions set forth.

[bernieyeball]

A few years ago in a small town not far from my home a similar scenario played out. The street was residential in an older subdivision. Lots with small frontage. If residents had more than one car the second vehicle pretty much took up any parking space on the street in front of the house.
Sure enough one family on the block started holding religious gatherings twice a week. The attendees parked their cars where they could in front of the neighborhood homes. Homeowners complained to the mayor at city council meetings. "It is our street."
Well no it is a public street.
After a few months of trying to get the neighbors to work it out on their own the mayor took action.
One morning the neighborhood woke up to the sound of "NO PARKING" signs being installed on both sides of the street for the entire block. Now nobody can park in front of the houses?24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

[John]

http://www.ketv.com/r/29367988.....z1ZkMO7sse

Girl told she can't wear Rosary at school because it is a "gang symbol". Do these yahoos think that by preventing gang symbols from being worn they are preventing gangs?

[Warty]

Is a cult a gang?

[sloopyinca]

Oh, great. Somebody had to bring up Scientology.

[Jesse James Dean]

this

[Mr. FIFY]

OT, but should be a thread (hint hint):

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....19804.html

[Max]

How is that grand theft?

[Mr. FIFY]

You're a liberal... answer your own question.

[Mr. FIFY]

And another one:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/......htmlstory

[sloopyinca]

If that kid's dumb enough to sport Vikings gear, he won't be eligible to play by the time he gets to high school anyway. I say, let him have his fun now.

[Mr. FIFY]

I'll agree on his choice of clothing, but isn't it just fuckin' sad he can't play football to the best of his ability and score as many touchdowns as he is able?

[Guillermo Lande]

If the visitors were parked illegally, then the city should have handed out parking tickets. If the visitors were parked legally, then there's no issue. The city was wrong either way to fine someone who has company, and if the company is parked illegally it's not the host's fault.

My neighbors across the street used to have big parties day and night that would block me in (I'm on a dead end) keeping me from safely getting out--sometimes completely keeping me from getting out. I asked the city for a no parking sign across from me, and they gave it.

Now all is great. My beef was not with my neighbors that had the parties. My beef was with the people that parked badly and blocked me in, and that's how the city in california should treat that issue.

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