NIMBY

Carmageddon Shaping Up as Big Nothing

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Carmageddon: The sun sets on a sleepy Interstate 405.

Rush hour traffic was light in Los Angeles Friday, in the final hours before closure of Interstate 405 for a few miles brought on a steel-and-rubber stampede of rich drivers that experts claim will destroy all intelligent life in California. The 405 itself was nearly empty around 7pm, when popular opinion held (incorrectly) that the closure would begin. Nor had ancillary congestion occured along some expected high-density corridors. San Vicente Blvd. was clear: 

Carmageddon: San Vicente Blvd. empty.

Wilshire Blvd., supposed to be one of L.A.'s busiest corridors, was sparsely populated: 

Carmageddon: Plenty of parking at Flynt Publications on Wilshire Blvd.

Empty was Olympic Blvd. going east…

Carmageddon: Olympic Blvd. empty July 15 2001.

… and going west: 

Carmageddon: Olympic Blvd. empty July 15 2011.

Beverly Glen Blvd., presumably an overspill route for traffic diverted from the 405, was quiet: 

Carmageddon: Beverly Glen Blvd. empty July 15 2011.

Sepulveda Blvd., which parallels the 405 within a block for most of the route slated for closure, awaited only the arrival of Chuck Heston, Anthony Zerbe and Rosalind Cash to an unpeopled nightmarescape: 

Carmageddon: Dr. Robert Neville drives along a desolate Sepulveda Blvd.

Surely this surface street desert isn't showing the full story. An intrepid photographer would jump a fence at the intersection of the 405 and Interstate 10, climb up the embankment and discover the true bumper-to-bumper depravity that our car-crazed late-capitalist culture has driven us to: 

Carmageddon: Light traffic at intersection of Interstate 10 and Interstate 405 July 11 2011.

Perhaps all these people got the hell out of L.A. because they thought the closing would occur at 7pm, which was the popular favorite time. In another example of the expert malpractice I reported on the other day, road authorities have done a lousy job of making it clear to the public what time the closing of the 405 would begin. All week, highway LED beacons have given only dates of construction, not times. Today, they finally put in a correct time on this LED sign that was almost entirely obscured from drivers by shrubbery: 

Carmageddon: LED roadside readout July 11 2011.

VHS ALERT: I'll be appearing on KTLA Channel 5 News at 7am tomorrow to discuss my prediction that Carmageddon would be a "big nothing." Will I have to eat crow? It's a little after 10pm now and my local newshawks are showing a live feed of an empty 405.

As commenters Rob McMillin and Fire Tiger have noted, there is a public-outrage angle to Carmageddon, involving the unnecessary overscheduling of this work, a bunch of NIMBYs, and general incompetence. While I appreciate that angle, I have been more fascinated by the spectacle of big government and big media taking an easily resolved problem (alerting people that a handy stretch of a major highway would be closed for 53 hours) into a condescending exercise in lifestyle hectoring. In La La Land, making it clear to drivers what time the work would begin and end took a lower priority than having William Shatner and Lady GaGa tweet about what they'll be doing instead of using cars this weekend. 

In the meantime, Kiewit, to which commenter sloopyinca gave a rave review the other day, seems ready to execute: 

Carmageddon: Kiewit reflective vests really reflect July 11 2011.

I have no idea whether sloopyinca is on Kiewit's payroll, but I do know Carmageddon was producing more media than news right up to H-Hour: 

Carmageddon: NBC News without news July 11 2011.

And local entrepreneurs are still doing what makes this country great: 

Carmageddon: Ground Zero Crossroads Cafe July 11 2011.

P.S.: Speaking of local TV news, I'm dismayed to see that the great John Schwada has been given the royal order of the boot from Fox KTTV. Schwada showed the excellent taste to interview me a few times. More memorably, when he won his lifetime achievement award at the L.A. Press Club recently, Schwada launched into a wonderful stemwinder about the joy of getting into trouble and kicking people's asses that got closer to the actual attraction of journalism than a hundred Pulitzer citations. This has been Schwada's quizzical, irreverent M.O. in a medium that doesn't exactly exude wit, skepticism, or heterodox views. I don't want to make light of the loss of mainstream media salary and status, which can be pretty damn depressing. But I hope Schwada will bounce back in the brave new world of troublesome and ass-kicking media that is not produced in massive, zombie-proof studios with security guards. 

Post-Midnight Update: Here's evidence that I am not just making up that business about how nobody knew what time the shutdown would actually start: In a Los Angeles Times blog post that required two bylined authors, Myung Chun and Robert Gauthier have the shutdown beginning "Promptly at 7 p.m. Friday." But just three hours later, in a Los Angeles Times blog post that required three bylined authors, Irfan Khan, Ari Bloomekatz and Dan Weikel announce that midnight is "the official start of a planned 53-hour closure of the 405 Freeway." This is why, when we go to war with Eastasia, I'll only trust the L.A. Times to know how long we've been at war with Eastasia. 

NEXT: Will Jerry Brown Allow Californians to Taste Beer?

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  1. Love photoblogging stuff, good show Cavanaugh. Do it more often.

    1. Imagine if Carmeggeddon and Y2K had happened at the same time!!

  2. Also, whatever the blonde in the last pic is doing at the gym, she’s doing it right. Dat ass…

    1. That’s a dude.

      1. There is nothing worse than seeing a fine ass in skinny jeans and then finding out it’s some long-haired hipster kid with ratty facial hair.

        1. It’s a girl, that’s helle’s fantasy talking

          1. Maybe heller likes “curvy” chicks. You’re a shoe-in if that’s the case.

            1. Should I put up my pic again?
              Lol

            2. I just threw up in my mouth.

              1. I just threw up in your mouth, too.

                1. I just your tat and it made me puke

                  1. Holy shit, is this your dick?

                    http://rctlfy.wordpress.com/20…..-me-a-lie/

                    1. Don’t feed the troll. Don’t click on the blog.

                    2. Bingo|7.16.11 @ 2:57AM|#
                      Don’t feed the troll. Don’t click on the blog.

                      You’re not the boss of me.

                    3. *walks up to the gathered crowd of familiar reasonoids

                      Hi guys what is going on here? Hey what is this?

                      rather |7.16.11 @ 2:55AM|#

                      Holy shit, is this your dick?

                      http://rctlfy.wordpress.com/20…..-me-a-lie/

                      Holy Christ mother of god what is wrong with you sick sick motherfuckers!!!

                    4. It’s just rectal, who cares. Why did you even click on it?

                    5. “Hi guys what is going on here? Hey what is this?”

                      You talk like a narc.

              2. Que mon coeur se brise 🙁
                lol

                1. Horrifying…

                  1. It’s good to see that the weekend thread is full retard off the first post. Thanks, Bingo. Thanks a lot.

                    1. Oh, and Bingo, email me please.

    1. I’m going to start posting top40 mixes in protest of this nonsense.

      30 minutes of Britney Spears, Lil’ Jon, and Young Money mixed to dubstep.

      1. I will cut you.

        1. Nothing as sharp as the skilled cuts on these drops! BOOM!

          1. I. Will. Cut. You.

    2. Still with this? Your taste is still terrible and your favorite band still sucks.

      1. And you like metal, so I don’t have to take anything you say about music seriously.

        1. And you don’t need to inflict billions of links to tedious 80s whinerock on us. But we do what we do.

          1. That’s nice dear.

  3. Looks like the 84 Olympics.

  4. Uh, the freeway hasn’t closed yet, smartypants. Obviously, people are taking the hysteria to heart and rescheduling themselves, but I imagine things will start backing up sometime in the late morning on Saturday.

      1. Jimmy Jazz is welcome (great song btw)

        You are terrible. Infinitely worse than heller’s ongoing spammage of The Pixies.

        1. God, I loathe the Pixies

  5. 83 to go, helle. Keep it up.

    And thanks, Mr. Cavanaugh, for the shout-out. I may not be on their payroll, but those guys put enough coin in my pocket that I may as well be, so any time I can give props to Kiewit, I will. Those guys are “tits” in my book.

    Here’s hoping they get the HSR contract. [ducks rotting tomatoes]

    1. Minarchist! *rushes to tomato basket*

  6. here is some thing special for guys check this out…
    http://tinyurl.com/hotnewz2011

  7. “…will destroy all intelligent life in California.”

    Hasn’t this already happened?

    1. No, there are five are non-retards left. But we’re all leave the state soon.

  8. If they can just get rid of the last couple of cars they can do some establishing shots for another OMEGA MAN movie.

    1. A good remake this time? With an actor we won’t wish for the mutant to kill?

      1. Weren’t they supposed to be vampires?

        1. In the book, and the first adaptation (Last Man on Earth) they were. In Omega Man, I thought they were more like mutant. I don’t care what they were like in the Smith remake.

  9. two bylined authors, Myung Chun and Robert Gauthier have the shutdown beginning “Promptly at 7 p.m. Friday.” But just three hours later, in a Los Angeles Times blog post that required three bylined authors, Irfan Khan, Ari Bloomekatz and Dan Weikel announce that midnight is “the official start…”

    Not really. From the first (9:23 pm) link:

    Promptly at 7 p.m. Friday, contract traffic workers in Day-Glo coveralls began systematically shutting down one turn lane after another at Ventura Boulevard and Sherman Oaks Avenue. Finally, they moved in and placed red-orange cones, traffic barricades and signs to block the onramp to the 405 Freeway.

    The early work wasn’t a complete severing of one of the main transportation arteries that keep Los Angeles pulsing. That doesn’t happen until midnight. Instead, it was a slow, systematic squeeze, one onramp at a time.

    From the second (12:28 am) link:

    Even before the clock ticked midnight — the official start of a planned 53-hour closure of the 405 Freeway between the 10 and 101 freeways…

    I’m not a reporter or a highway engineer, but I’m fairly certain that you cannot shut down a major highway and all its on-ramps and exits at precisely the same instant.

    1. “I’m not a reporter or a highway engineer, but I’m fairly certain that you cannot shut down a major highway and all its on-ramps and exits at precisely the same instant.”

      Never been in SoCal during a big quake, have you?

      Seriously, yes, it’s easy and often done. You preposition the barriers at each ramp with a couple of guys to move them. The call goes out on the radio, and 10 seconds later, all of the onramps are closed.

      The light traffic is because of all the advance warning. People are driving to GET somewhere, not to be part of a traffic jam, so everyone who didn’t absolutely have to be in those areas found alternate routes or put off their trips until another time.

  10. yawn

  11. In more serious news, Pirates are in first place! I repeat, Pirates are in first place.

    1. That’s PiLates.

      1. Still LACIST!!!!!

    2. On the same day GQ certified Pittsburgh as the third-worst-dressed city in America.

      What giveth also taketh away.

    3. Never thought I’d see that happen again. I grew up 60 miles SW of Pittsburgh, lifelong Pirates fan. Parents were at Game 7 in 1960. Go Pirates!

  12. What passes for “BBQ” in Cali? Something with avocados most likely.

    1. “Today’s special is a Napa valley raised organic free-range pig named Colin; basted with an avocado balsamic wet rub. He’s served with a choice of grilled organic asparagus lightly drizzled with olive oil and topped with vegan feta, or cole slaw.”

      1. Maybe over the hill or in the Bay area, but here in the central valley, near Harris Ranch or one of the other cattle ranches and grazing areas that occupy around 38 million acres, or over 1/3 of the state, we have a little thing called tri-tip.

        It’s easy to label California as just a bunch of nanny-state do-gooders, but it’s not all that way. He’ll, on Wednesday night, I was riding a mechanical bull in Bako at midnight, and there were more Gadsden Flag stickers in the parking lot that Coexist ones, that’s for sure.

        1. For more on California cattle ops, try this site.

          FTS: “California’s feedlots have declined in number over the last several decades due to overregulation and the exodus of beef processing facilities from the state.” Finally, a lobbying group that calls out overregulation and a shitty business climate. Their meetings are even more fun since about half of them are survivalists and their wives are more often than not hot-ass Portagee or Dutch.

        2. Jeeze man, sorry. Don’t get all bent out of shape.

          Didn’t you see that I included cole slaw in my description?

          1. Haha. I don’t get bent out of shape. In fact, in my book BBQ requires a pig having spent many years in the Old South before moving out here. Although tri-tip can be pretty good, the lack of Sauer’s on the west coast is rather disheartening. And so is the lack of good slaw.

            Goddammit, now I’m depressed again.

            1. If all of Michigan is Detroit, then all of Cali can be San Fran and LA.

              Nananana boooooboooooo….

              1. Well played, sir. Very well played.

              2. I’m in Detroit right now. I thought cleveland was a shithole.

      2. Actually, I bought some boar chops last summer from a dude at the Berkeley Farmer’s Market, and he told me the boar’s name (Lilly).

        I really wish he hadn’t.

        1. With a name like “Lilly,” one would expect it to be a sow rather than a boar. Although it was in Berkeley, so they may be after some gender equality of livestock initiative I’ve yet to hear about.

          I thought goat would be more your style anyway.

        2. I once ate steaks from a cow named “Lumpy.”

    2. Throw some tempeh on the grill!

  13. …into a condescending exercise in lifestyle hectoring.

    Leftism is grounded in elitism. It’s central premise is that there is a subset of the population of so intellectually and morally superior to the rest of us that they are morally justified in using the violent based power of the state to micromanage the rest of us. Leftist spend the majority of their time finding fault with their strawman “average” Americans so that they can justify dominating and controlling them.

    Leftists create rationales for control and dominance by simply looking at whatever middle-class people (60% of population by income) are doing and declaring that wrong. Middle-class people like to live in suburbs therefore suburbs are evil and people must be forcibly prevented from living in them. Middle-class people like single dwelling housing therefore people must be crammed into rabbit warren apartments. Middle-class people often like meat centered foods served in chain restaurants therefore such food is evil. Middle-class people like the flexibility and independence granted by cars, therefore cars are evil.

    All this “alternative” lifestyle crap is dressed up elitism. Organic foods and “all natural” products are just a means of wrapping conspicuous status consumption up in a veneer of superior morality. People who shop at Whole Foods are essentially saying, “hey, not only am I richer than you, I’m also more moral because I make ‘sacrifices’ to protect the planet!”

    So, it really should come as no surprise that “carmagedon” has been used as an exercise for sneering down at majority of the population. Such elitism is their core behavioral drive.

    1. Hey – its like Sarah Palin but its not in Twit-language so it can’t be.

      Yeah – I get your point though. Creationism and belief in the Apocalypse should not be ridiculed. “Real” Americans have it all figured out.

      1. Ridicule all you want, shrikey. You’ll still hear the echo of your own voice rattling through your empty basement.

        And Shannon is wrong about one thing. Most people who shop at Whole Foods aren’t doing so to show off or be smug. Most of them go there because the food is often better and the service is fantastic compared to Save Mart or Albertsons, etc.

        As fat as your housing rant, you’ve obviously never been to the People’s Republic of Metro Los Angeles.

        1. shrike is a sniveling, state-loving pussy-boy. Let him stew in his own juices.

          Or the juices of Paulie Krugnuts, or the fellow pedophile in the basement next door.

          1. Who me?

            1. No Me 🙂

              1. I meant REAL pedophiles, not rank wannabe’s.

                Is STEVE SMITH a pedophile?

                1. Hey, I’m the only true pedophile here!

        2. as your housing rant, you’ve obviously never been to the People’s Republic of Metro Los Angeles

          Cabrini Green, anyone? (Google it, Shriek)

          1. candyman candyman candy…

        3. Most people who shop at Whole Foods aren’t doing so to show off or be smug.

          I’ve been shopping at Whole Foods since it was a little single cramped and vaguely grimy grocery on South Lamar in Austin, Tx. Back then, they weren’t know for superior products because in the 80s, organic food sucked, Since day one it has been quite clear that moral superiority or at least soothing of conscience is a big part of the companies marketing model.

          There have always been a lot of upscale grocers who have catered to a wealthy demographic willing to pay extra for superior foodstuffs. They have always made the implicit claim that their food cost more because it took more resources to produce superior quality. Whole Foods, and the rest of the “environmentally conscientious” industry have made the ridiculous claim that food that takes more resources to produce is actually better for the environment.

          My family shops some at Whole Foods precisely because they do have superior products but even the most casual stroll through one of their stores will demonstrate that moralistic elitism is their primary product.

          1. Fuck you, Shannon. I go to Whole Foods when I’m in a town that has one. Their food tends to be fresher. Period. Full stop.

            Until you take a poll of the people leaving Whole Foods and their stated reason for shopping there, STFU because you don’t know what you are talking about.

            Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to ride my fixie to the farmers market to buy some produce, after which I will stop by Starbucks, where I will sit outside with an iced latte while reading the NYT on my iPad2.

            1. Nah, most of the folks who shop at Whole Foods really need to be bitch-slapped into next week. Full stop.

              1. Your reasoning is beyond my debating ability. The way you support your side of the argument is eye-opening and has caused me to rethink my shopping habits and philosophy in general.

                Thank you so much. I’m glad to have been exposed to your brilliant level of insight.

            2. “Most of them go there because the food is often better and the service is fantastic compared to Save Mart or Albertsons, etc.”

              “Until you take a poll of the people leaving Whole Foods and their stated reason for shopping there, STFU because you don’t know what you are talking about.”

              1. Good point, Sidd. I should also do a survey before I say why anybody shops there other than me.

                1. You can’t possibly be this stupid.

          2. So you’re saying you shopped at Whole Foods back when all they had going for them was a claim of moral superiority…and then disdain people who shop there to feel morally superior. (and of course sloopy is right on in noting that you don’t know why they shop there)

          3. Where the fuck else am I supposed to hook up with tatted, vegan white chicks?

      2. But they’re not ridiculing creationism and a belief in the Apocalypse, they’re ridiculing practical choices that people in the conduct of their day-to-day lives based on the premise that individuals are to stupid to understand what is best for them and that therefore ordinary people should defer such practical decisions to an elite.

        Besides, if the history of the 20th century has taught us anything it is that philosophically materialistic world view, supposedly grounded in science, is the most dangerous foundation for an ideology imaginable. Atheist cut a bloody swatch across the planet killing 120+ million people and oppressing many, many more. Statistically, your average evangelical christian in the last century was several hundred times less likely to enable or perpetrate mass murder than your average materialist.

        Niether have the less murderous materialists in the free world much to feel smug about. If we were having this conversation 40+ years ago, you would be mocking Palin for not bowing down to Freud and admitting that a desire to have sex with our parents is a primary behavioral driver. If we were having this discussion in the 1920s you would mocking evangelical christians like Palin for refusing to support eugenics laws like all “progressive” materialist back then and for supporting lawsuits to overturn them.

        Niether do most materialist today actually embrace evolutionary theory. Just ask your average materialistic Leftists what they think about using the theory of natural selection to understand contemporary social behavior and you will be told that by some mysterious and unknown mechanism, natural selection no longer applies to humans, especially materialistic Leftists.

        The major flaw in your argument is it’s implicitly elitist assumption that there exist a population whose understanding of every knowledge domain is globally superior to the vast majority of the population. Further, you believe there are certain beliefs, like materialistic evolution, which conclusively identify an individual as a member of this elite.

        In short, you think that all materialist always make better decisions in all domains than do the religious. In fact, history is quite clear that all of us a wrong most of the time and that every possible ideology, philosophy or religion has had both hits and misses.

        Get over yourself.

        1. I happen to be a meterielistic person and a Christian at the same time. Please don’t try to speak for one of those groups when you don’t know me or what I stand for at all.

          And as far as atheists killing tens of millions in the last century, I don’t think it had as much to do with their atheism as it did their megalomania.

          Correlation =/= causation, so please stop this “atheists are all evil” bullshit. It makes you look foolish and bigoted, which I think would be an accurate description.

          1. Thank you, sloopy. I get tired of the “the Commies killed b/c they were atheists” BS. They killed because they hated freedom. Christians who hate freedom have done the same throughout history. Christians and atheists who believe in freedom are not going to start mass murder campaigns. Christians and atheists who don’t just might.

          2. Firstly, you can’t be a philosophical materialist and a Christian at the same time because materialism is by definition based on the axiom that there are no non-material effects. Unless you think Jesus was a space alien, you’re not a materialist.

            Secondly, I didn’t assert that “all atheist are evil” because for one thing I am a materialistic atheist, educated as a biologist with a lifelong passion for studying evolutionary theory.

            What I was specifically addressing was the incredibly common assertion among atheist and secularist in general that a belief in the supernatural past or future automatically marks someone as so stupid they can’t make their own decisions. Why else would shrike introduce creationism into a secular discussion about transportation if not to assert that because most middle-class Americans are religious that therefore their opinions about whether to drive a car or not are automatically invalid.

            The vast majority of atheists do routinely assert that they are and have always been global superior decision makers compared to all religious people and they cling to that self-aggrandizing proposition with an iron faith. However, this is obviously not true based on even the most casual glance at history So, any argument premised on the idea that either individuals or groups won’t make good decisions just because they are religious is false on its face.

            1. Several things here:

              First, I misread what you wrote. I am no philosophical materialist. That would contradict my religious beliefs. That said, you shouldn’t try to speak for all Christians. You don’t have that right.

              Second, shreik introduced religion into a discussion on transportation because that is what he does. He’s a piece of shit troll that comes on here and goes, “hurr durr

              1. Oops.

                He goes, “hurr durr, Christfags. Hurr durr.”

                That’s his schtick, and he’s become quite adept at pushing peoples buttons.

                All of that said, you seem to be making quite a few assertions that are either unsupportable or downright incorrect. Whichever one, they come across as smug and bigoted. You should just quit now before you make yourself look even stupider.

            2. Shannon, a sampling of the statements you’ve now made about groups or ideologies you later claimed to belong to:

              People who shop at Whole Foods are essentially saying, “hey, not only am I richer than you, I’m also more moral because I make ‘sacrifices’ to protect the planet!”

              philosophically materialistic world view, supposedly grounded in science, is the most dangerous foundation for an ideology imaginable.

        2. Atheist cut a bloody swatch across the planet

          I never did like those things, bloody or otherwise. The batteries were crap and they never kept time anyway.

          Statistically, your average evangelical christian in the last century was several hundred times less likely to enable or perpetrate mass murder than your average materialist.

          Statistically? Have you actually done a statistical analysis of that claim or did you just pull it out of your ass? (Sorry if expecting actual data is elitist!)

          Get over yourself.

          That’s pretty rich coming from someone who clearly burns with anger against the internal thoughts of Whole Foods shoppers and atheists.

          1. I had a swatch when I was a kid. Never had one that leaked blood, though. That would have been cool.

          2. Yep. “Pot, meet Kettle”

            Shannon: “…they’re ridiculing practical choices that people in the conduct of their day-to-day lives based on the premise that individuals are to stupid to understand what is best for them and that therefore ordinary people should defer such practical decisions to an elite.”

            Yes, defer your shopping decisions to Shannon, for she knows best.

        3. “Just ask your average materialistic Leftists what they think about using the theory of natural selection to understand contemporary social behavior and you will be told that by some mysterious and unknown mechanism, natural selection no longer applies to humans, especially materialistic Leftists.”

          To be fair, everyone lives in Gould’s world now. And two of the most prolific challengers to the liberal creationists are liberals — Herrnstein and Pinker.

          1. Gould’s sucks compared to Colfax or SPX Flow.

            We are talking about pumps, right?

        4. this is a fucking fantastic rant!

          i loathe elitists! one nice thing about where i work is that i so rarely have to deal with them

    2. At 60% of the population it would seem that the creation and expansion of our current mega-state wouldn’t be possible without the consent of the middle class.

      Besides the sprawled out suburbs wouldn’t even be possible, in their current form, without the massive government highway industrial complex.

      In other words: ROADZZ!!1!

      1. Since both extensive road systems and suburbs existed prior to significant government involvement in their creation, I would argue that you can’t say that suburbs wouldn’t have existed without the megastate.

        Besides, virtually all road construction is paid for from taxes collected on fuel, vehicles and road transport companies. That strongly suggest that even absent government involvement that an extensive road system was easily economically supported. Given that most transportation taxes generate a surplus, it is better to say that government is trying to make a profit by hijacking a private function.

        Government involvement probably accelerated suburbanization a little bit but the primary drivers are technological. As various communication and transportation technologies have become decentralized and more peer-to-peer, suburbs have gained a great practical advantage over dense urban cores. You don’t have to pile 10,000 people up in a skyscraper anymore just so they can communicate, you can spread them out all over the planet. Neither do have to locate factories right next to water transport. A factory in Midland, Tx hundreds of miles from a navigable river, is just as easy to ship from as one on the shores of Lake Michigan.

        You are also forgetting that government involvement in the infrastructure of dense urban cores is even more intensive than such involvement outside the cores. Subways ain’t cheap. In fact, most large urban areas are sliding into overall economic negatives requiring direct subsidy just to survive.

        You’re right we have the exact form of suburbs today without the large invasive state but then we wouldn’t have the same dense urban cores either. However, we would still have extensive and expanding suburbs because modern technology makes them the most economical form.

      2. Shannon refuses to believe that, because he is invested in the notion that our suburban land-use patterns represent a market outcome, when they don’t.

        We’ve seen the land use pattern that we get to as we move closer to a market system, in the second half of the 19th century. And it ain’t suburbia.

        At least John has the good grace to concede that suburban neighborhoods could not exist without draconian control of the use of individual properties. He just tries to dress that up as a defense of property “values”, which is of course essentially the opposite of defending property rights.

        1. See, I thought Shannon refused to see that because he/she spent a lot of the last year or two watching every episode of Glenn Beck on endless loop.

          1. I have never watched a single episode of Glenn Beck. I watched about 15 minutes of one episode because he quoted a blog mate of mine.

            1. I have never watched…

              I have watched one…

              Does not compute.
              Does not compute.
              Error. Error.

              1. If I toted up every random moment I’ve watched of, say, Ed Schultz’s TV horror show, I might be able to piece together one sixty-minute block.

                But that still doesn’t count as watching a single episode.

                The retching forced my remote-control trigger finger, for the record.

        2. I didn’t assert that the modern real-world suburb was exclusively the result of market-forces, I just asserted that:

          (1) Suburbs are no more government subsidized than urban cores. Governments at all levels spend vast amounts of money to make transportation and other infrastructure work in the urban cores. Most people don’t recognize this because they don’t know it cost as much as 50 times as much to build the same length of road in the city than it does out in the sticks. How many miles of road do you think you could build around the outskirts of Dallas/Ft Worth for the money it took to make Boston’s Big Dig?

          (2) Suburbs exist and are growing because technological change makes them the efficient place to do business. Most people who live in suburbs today actually work in the suburbs. Transportation and communication are now a decentralized web, not a hub and spoke system centered on urban cores. This technological and economic reality exist independent of any government action.

          We’ve seen the land use pattern that we get to as we move closer to a market system, in the second half of the 19th century.

          You making the mistake of using a linear extrapolation of technological trends. It’s a very common error.

          Cities concentrated prior to the 1970s because the lack of peer-to-peer communication necessitated that people be in close physical proximity if they were to communicate. A skyscraper is actually an information processing machine that facilitates face-to-face communication as well hierarchical node communication technologies like analog switchboards and air tubes. Historically, most people who worked in dense urban cores were involved in physically moving and routing information.

          Once the technology shifted, however, the urbanization trend shifted as well. Now people don’t have to be so physically proximate. If you had to build a corporate headquarters from scratch today, would you build a skyscraper or would you build a flat campus style facility possibly scattered in various communities around the world?

          Regardless of the degree of government subsidy for anyone, dense urban cores have lost their primary economic function. They are simply not needed. I think a lot of the vilification of suburbs and small towns comes from the panic of urbanites who realize that they can’t claim to be the best place to do information business anymore but instead have to brag about their legacy restaurants.

          1. I love how all the responses to Shannon have ignored the bulk of her message. The Whole Foods comment (which was a bit mistaken since rich environmentalists tend to hate the chain’s libertarian owner) was taken out of context. Her central argument was that “Leftists create rationales for control and dominance by simply looking at whatever middle-class people (60% of population by income) are doing and declaring that wrong.

            Why doesn’t someone respond to that, rather than get all upset over the implication that anecdotal evidence is a valid form of argument? Which, by the way, I’ve got plenty of anecdotes of coworkers (in my decade of employment in forestry/conservation) who argued that it was morally wrong to shop at Wal Mart or to buy non-organic produce. And for christ’s sake, she never said “All people who shop at whole foods”, so her statement is entirely true.

            Also, everyone ignored this brilliant insight: the “environmentally conscientious” industry have made the ridiculous claim that food that takes more resources to produce is actually better for the environment. I’ve been saying that for years, but whatever. I actually once convinced some environmentalists of this fallacy by illustrating the disproportionate land consumption of organic operations, but they continued to eat organic food and changed their supposed reason to “health consciousness” as opposed to environmental consiousness, providing support for Shannon’s argument that something else (perhaps elitism) is the real reason behind their actions.

            Basically, I’m saying that I support you, Shannon.

            1. …she never said “All people that shop at Whole Foods”, so her statement is entirely true.

              Yeah, here’s her quote: ” People who shop at Whole Foods are essentially saying, “hey, not only am I richer than you, I’m also more moral because I make ‘sacrifices’ to protect the planet!””

              So if I say, people who drive Dodges are fascists, my statement would be “entirely true,” because I didn’t say all people who drive Dodges are fascists?

              Sorry, but that’s some contortionism there. We all know what Shannon meant.

              1. “So if I say, people who drive Dodges are fascists, my statement would be “entirely true,” because I didn’t say all people who drive Dodges are fascists?”

                Are you English or retarded?

                1. Seriously, Sidd? Read my comment in context to Tom’s. My comment is a mirror image of Shannon’s.

                  Perhaps you should ask yourself the same question. As for me, I am neither a tard or a limey. I’m a man. I’m 40.

                  1. “Seriously, Sidd? Read my comment in context to Tom’s. My comment is a mirror image of Shannon’s.”

                    Are you insane? Even the “pedant” troll isn’t that damn pedantic.

            2. Basically, I’m saying that I support you, Shannon.

              If you support him you probably shouldn’t refer to him as “she”.

            3. leftists are just as “unscientific” as evangelical creationists when it suits their need.

              not ONE peer reviewed study has EVER shown ANY statistically significant benefit to organically grown produce. yet, they will sputter and wheeze if you counter their argument that “it’s healthier food”

              leftist vegans are the least scientific people i have ever met when it comes to their religion – not eating animal products

              leftist elitists spent decades ignoring biological (y’know cause of EVOLUTION) evidence of the substantial differences between men and women claiming that gender etc. was a purely social construct. the difference between male and female behavior etc. was due to archetypes and environment SOLEY according to them

              i also challenge them to show me ANY evidence that cows who are given BGH or other hormones have ANY less healthy meat (for those of them that eat meat)

              1. but but.. hormones… and additives.. poor living condishunz@!#$

                /vegan

        3. We’ve seen the land use pattern that we get to as we move closer to a market system, in the second half of the 19th century. And it ain’t suburbia.

          What move toward a market system are you referring to here?

          1. Shannon must live in Fantasyland, cause in America, we’ve been riding a government-operated bullet train away from a market system since the 1930’s.

            1. No, he/she is very correct in their assessment that suburbs are in fact the default market-preferred way to live, and in their feasibility.

              Take away government regulations, subsidies, mass transit, etc… and suburbs would still be overwhelmingly preferred.

              1. Do you really think for a second that we are moving pears a market-based system? That was my point of contention.

                Also, where has a market-based approach even been attempted in a developed society? The closest example would be India, and as they cast away their caste system and get closer to a fee market, their urban population has continued to grow at a higher rate than the suburban and urban populations.

                I think people confuse urban sprawl with suburbanism

                1. No, not India. India has numerous draconian regulations and hoops to jump through for real estate development. Try Texas for a better example.

                  Suburban is considered part of urban population. When you see a %urbanized statistic, it includes the suburban population. I think people (you) don’t even know what they’re talking about in the first place. Suburbs are (rightly) closely associated with urban sprawl. They aren’t quite synonyms, but they usually are these days.

                  But no surprise that a Whole Foods shopping victim of marketing hype would also be crusading against the hated suburb. Probably while living one, usually how it goes.

    3. People who shop at Whole Foods are essentially saying, “hey, not only am I richer than you, I’m also more moral because I make ‘sacrifices’ to protect the planet!”

      If there’s one thing I can’t stand it’s people who insist that they’re morally superior to the other end of the political spectrum. Like Shannon Love, for instance.

      1. Gosh, everyone is imperfect and therefore incapable of criticizing anyone else. Oh my, you must be the terror of the dorm room bull session.

        I don’t really give a rats ass about most people’s conspicuous consumption. I think that bying a 100,000 car is insane but hey, its your money.

        Conspicuous environmental moralist consumption draws my ire because those same people use the same rational to justify restricting my material freedom action in absolute every sphere of life. These are the same people who say I can’t choose how to apportion my electricity consumption e.g. forcing me to use CFLs in all circumstances whether I personally think that best or not.

        This kind of moral superiority mutates rapidly into a rationale for dominance and elitist rule. That’s why I hold it in contempt.

        I also intrinsically don’t like people who are self-deluding. People who think that foods that consume more material resources are better for the environment are self-deluded.

        1. Personally, I never worried if those foods consume more or less material resources to produce. All I care about is that they taste better to a degree that it’s worth me spending extra money on.

          The reasons other people are sharing the aisles of Whole Foods with me are entirely their business, and matter fuck-all to me.

        2. I pity the dumbasses who are easily marketed to who shop at whole foods or buy apple products. Textbook cases of marketing hype far surpassing the actual value of what they offer. Just pity them and move on.

          Its actually good that there’s somewhere for organo-dipshits to take their fecal-bacteria covered canvas bags away from those of us who have sense.

          1. I travel a lot on business, and it’s a lot easier for me to find the local whole foods than to seek out an open farmers market in every town I travel to.

            As far as apple products go, I would have agreed wholeheartedly with you until my boss bought me an iPad as a gift. It has gained me at last 5 hours of productivity a week, and the comparable android products (if you even try to compare their speed, it’s not even close) are still more expensive.

            1. The Xoom is not all Android tablets.

              There are several that will run circles around the iPad for less money. The Viewsonic G Tablet, for instance, is about half the price of an iPad and with a very simple mod becomes its equal. Oh, and it has these things called USB ports, SD card readers, and can run Flash.

        3. People who think that foods that consume more material resources are better for the environment are self-deluded.

          Not necessarily. It’s far more likely that people think this because they’ve been misinformed by others. Of course, if this is the case it would interfere with your apparent need to place moral blame on people who disagree with you.

    4. Waittaminute…I was under the impression that the middle class was composed, in the main, of public sector employees. If leftists hate the middle class, doesn’t that mean they hate government workers? I don’t get it.

      1. they hate their VALUES asnd their lifestyles. they believe that they love the middle class and the middle class NEEDS them to make their lives better through the nannystate.

        leftists believe the ultimate expression of love of their fellow man is running their lives via the barrel of a gun.

        which explains the happy meal ban in san francisco

        1. So are you saying that middle class leftists are self-hating or that they don’t exist?

          1. many are, to an extent, or try to avoid the “trappings’ of “conventional” middle class life, eschewing and criticizing the white picket fences of suburbia.

            their disdain for same is reflected in such movies as Pleasantville and American Beauty.

            hollywood’s contempt for suburbia doesn’t at all match their contempt for big business (the constant gardener, etc.) but it’s pretty apparent.

    5. Shannon, people are more than their politics.

  14. SPHERES OF ECONOMIC PARITY ? Sink or Swim Time.

    The Elite [1%] rich of the American ? Israeli Military Industrial Complex ? the [EMPIRE], has created the perfect Economic Storm, the citizens of not only the [EMPIRE] but of the Western World have been put directly under their thumbs. The choice that the Western World Citizens have been given to deal with are;

    [TAX THE ELITE]

    Tax The [1%] Elite and the small business owners, with the result that the [1%] will as with [NAFTA] the North American Free Trade Agreement, once again create the sucking sound of jobs being shipped to more tax friendly environments with bank accounts being moved to more secure and business friendly off shore accounts, leaving the citizens of the [EMPIRE] with fewer jobs, a declining [$USD$] with little or no purchasing power, which is a Tariff on imported items, as their price increases due to the decline of the value of the [$USD$]. At the same time tax’s have to be raised across the board to all it citizens, to try an pay the national debt from spending [44%] more than it has taken in from its tax base for years, while browning to make up the difference, printing and selling bonds to the point were it was purchasing its own debt, by simply printing and purchasing them itself, and to support the increasing number of unemployed.

    [Quantitative Easing Economic Slow Decline]

    Don’t do anything stay the course, in fact lower the tax’s upon the [1%] and continue to believe in the trickle down theory of economics, a drop here and a drop their of trickle down wealth that never seems to make it to the mass majority. The rich get richer and the jobs still continue to flow were there is cheaper labor, while the value of the [$USD$] continues to decline, as it continues to spend more than it takes in thru tax revenues, and continues to borrow at increasing interest rates, printing more and more [QE$USD$] Quantitative Easing Dollars, which in turn devalue the [$USD$], causing Stagnation of wages, leading to wage decline, in real terms as once again the purchasing power of the [$USD$] declines which is nothing more than an across the board tax at the same time being a Tariff upon imported items, as their costs increases. As the bond markets are forced in the end to devalue the [EMPIRE] bond status to Junk, a Quantitative Easing Economic Slow Decline.

    [Empire Sucks Western Economies Dry]

    The [EMPIRE] has thru the World Bank,[IMF] International Monetary Fund, and Wall St., the economic blood suckers and loan sharks of the Geo-Economic World Economy, created a domino effect of economic collapse, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, and soon the entire [EU] European Union will see the [Euro] collapse under the pressure, as even now boarders are being closed between membership nations and further membership is being curtailed or even ended as Turkey and Eastern European Nations are being shut out.

    [Spheres of Economic Parity]

    The solution is in progress in the Communist Spheres of Economic Parity, Regional Spheres of Influence which are using combined economic regional [SDR’s] Special Drawing Rights, of Association Memberships, removing themselves from the [$USD$] Geo ? Economic World Based Economy, and any connections to the World Bank, [IMF] and Wall St., with caps and controls upon their Regional Spheres of Economic Parity, placing high priorities upon their regional Infrastructures [Roads, Bridges, Water Reclamation Projects, Railway, Transportation, etc.] , Healthcare for their citizens, Care for their Youth and Elderly, and Education for their citizenry. Uncontrolled Capitalism has proven to be the Roadway to World Global Economic Disaster, as it sinks it sucks everything down into its vortex along with it. The Solution is to end all ties to the [EMPIRE] and its [$USD$] based Geo-Economic Structure in favor of Communist Spheres of Economic Parity. It is Sink or Swim Time.

    HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN

    [POSTSCRIPT, OR, TRIATHLON FURTHER CLARIFIES FOR THE BENEFIT OF [Www.Reason.com/Blog]

    Now, some libertarians here will get all up in our face and accuse us of opposing freen trade, well that’s a falsehood, North American Free Trade Agreement [NAFTA] is not free trade as [Dr. Ron Paul] has pointed out it is [MANAGED TRADE], trade managed and directed by the government of the [EMPIRE], a true free trade agreement would be one sentence long not [1,000s] Thousands of Pages.

    1. So, anyone else writing in Herc for 2012?

      1. Yup. He or she is far superior to Lyndon LaRouche.

      2. You’ve seen me here shillin’ for him:

        Herc – 2012!

        1. He was great on The Wire.

      3. So, anyone else writing in Herc for 2012?

        I thought he was already running. Under his nom de politique President Emperor Caesar

      4. Who will he/she/it choose for the VP?

        1. Hercule-Skynet 2012
          It’s inevitable!

    2. I always though “free trade agreements” bordered on oxymoronic, since free trade is the absence of government intervention, while there are big documents.

    3. “Now, some libertarians here will get all up in our face and accuse us of opposing freen trade”

      Is this the royal we?

  15. It’s Karmageddon

  16. That’s some grade A picture mining Tim.

    That shithole known as west LA has traffic 24/7 along with non stop car alarms, paramedic, police helicopters, and various other noise pollution. I don’t see how people can live like that.

  17. Wow, OK man those people really need to get over it already..

    http://www.complete-privacy.us.tc

  18. The sad part is, anonymity bot is soooo much better than Herc.

    1. Art-P.O.G., no way. I use Herc as a visual bookmark.

  19. Elsewhere in California, the full court press is on:

    The son and daughter of former NFL player David Lee “Deacon Turner — who was fatally shot by deputies over the weekend — were arraigned Tuesday on charges including making criminal threats and participation in a criminal street gang.

    Both Ahmod Turner, 25, and Whittney Turner, 24, pleaded not guilty and a preliminary hearing was scheduled for July 26.

    The charges stem from a confrontation at Kern Medical Center after David Turner was pronounced dead early Sunday morning. Hospital CEO Paul Hensler has said that, according to reports from security officers, family members became angry and someone in the group told hospital security there was a gun in the parking lot.

    Coroner’s officials called law enforcement, and the first deputy to arrive was “rushed” by family members, said Hensler, who was provided the security reports. The deputy drew his weapon but didn’t fire, more law enforcement arrived and Ahmod and Whittney Turner were arrested.

    LeDarrius Davis, a nephew of David Turner who was at the hospital, said there was no need to arrest anyone. Everyone was yelling, but no one threatened anyone, he said. The family was just grieving.

    hier

    I suspect this isn’t the world’s most “sympathetic” family, but the cops certainly seem to be doing their best to heap more shit on them.

    “That guy was a bad actor. Just look at his record. You KNOW he was up to no good.”

    1. “Mmmm – ‘grieving over your dead son’, eh? Looks an awful lot like ‘gang activity.’ LOCK ‘EM UP! Oh – shoot the dogs first…”

      1. I spent most of this past week in Bako, and the take there is pretty bizarre. Most of the folks I talked to about the situation acknowledge the out of control cops and sheriff’s departmentin the city, yet still think he probably did something to deserve being murdered.

        And, where the he’ll is the security video that supposedly would shed light on the situation? If it’s in police custody, you can bet there’s only one way it gets released, and that’s if it exonerates the cops. Here’s hoping it’s not already been confiscated, because this still sounds veeeeeeeeeery sketchy.

        1. here’s this “deserve” canard. it has nothing to do with DESERVING to be shot (calling it “murder” begs the question)

          uses of force are either justified or not

          if a use of force is justified, it doesn’t mean somebody ‘deserved’ to die, certainly not in the moral sense.

          if a person points an unloaded gun at me, i will shoot them. did they ‘deserve to die’? not in the moral sense. but that’s irrelevant

          many suicides by cop involve people with unloaded weapons. they don’t even want to risk hurting somebody else , they just want somebody else to do their dirty work for them. these are TRAGEDIES, but they are justified;

          the problem with many reasonoid’s analysis of force incidents (whether cop or othercitizen based (e.g. the pharmacy shooting)) is they legislate morality and do a results based analysis instead of a process based analysis

          rule of law necessitates process based analysis of use of force, whether it’s a homeowner shooting a burglar, or a cop shooting somebody

          this is why we often, to borrow a sowell’ism- argue PAST each other, because we are operating from different frameworks

        2. Didn’t the police cruiser also have video? It may not show anything, as I suspect the convenience store cameras won’t show anything, but still…

          1. not sure. but i’m a firm believer in video to help punish the guilty, exonerate the innocent, and punish those who make false complaints

            1. Couldn’t agree more.

              While surv. camera tech has improved and gotten cheaper over the last 5 years, I still won’t be surprised if the cameras don’t show anything at all.

              1. i have had any # of cases where i try to get video as evidence (burg’s, etc.) and it amazes me how crappy some of the systems are in terms of resolution, etc. they are often quite useless for identification of exactly what happened (THAT grainy), let alone to positively id a suspect

                i know a # of recent cases where officers in my or neighboring agency were HELPED SUBSTANTIALLY by video at the scene, and a few where they were brought to justice for it when they did something wrong. those are both very good things.

    2. So the vast conspiracy between police, hospital officials, the coroner’s office, and the media continues apace.

      Or maybe family members aren’t the most objective witnesses of whether their kin committed crimes? No, can’t be true. Unless they’re cop families in which case they can’t be trusted. </sarcasm>

      You have to admire the leaps of doublethink necessary to believe at the same time that the entire justice system is skewed toward the cops in shooting cases, and that the cops feel it necessary to shut family members of the deceased up.

      1. there is one thing you can count on. whenever a cop shoots somebody (or often a noncop, like the store owner who saved a cop’s life near where i live by running up and shooting the bad guy in the head while he was wrestling with the cop over possession of her gun) – the inevitable “he was turning his life around” if the guy is the typical police shootee – convicted felon with multiple violent crime arrests and convictions. not all are like this, but the vast majority are – a la clemons, the asshole who shot four cops in lakewood.

        1. Dude, I am so moving to Washington.

          According to dunphy:

          The news there actually presents something positive about vicitims of police violence. The local media doesn’t just get on their knees and gulp down whatever department bigwigs present to them.

          If you are caught with drugs you are given a ticket, and not hauled to jail on bullshit felony “intent to deliver” charges. No jacked-up felony “conspiracy” charges for girlfriend’s of druggies, either.

          Cops are just honest guys tryin’ to make a living in some of Washington’s toughest neighborhoods. They’re all good guys and not roided out krav maga bullies more interested in busting heads than enforcing the laws.

          Hell, the cops in Washington are so cool they even comment on Reason!

          Sounds like Big Rock Candy Mountain.

          1. lies, exaggeration and distortions of my statements noted.

            that aside. i have never seen anywhere in the US where the news did not quote family members etc. of “victims of police violence” (who the vast majority of the time are only victims of themselves just like “victims” of shootings by most CCW holders) who state “he was turning his life around” and other such hagiographies AS WELL AS often commenting on the guy’s record which is almost always as long as the (proverbial) arm

            nobody said you were given a ticket for “drugs”. what i said is that in a substantial # of cases, misdemeanor mj cases are ignored/given a warning by local cops, or maybe a citation. an actual custodial arrest is only common if the cop is a rookie looking for a stat or in some small town where “they take MJ seriously”. seattle city council actually passed an ordinance stating the MJ enforcement was to be a “low priority ” for their PD.

            cops ARE just (in the vast majority of cases) good guys doing a tough and fun job. some suck. they are a minority.

            the only cop i know who does krav maga *is* a bad ass, but i am pretty sure she is not roided out. i haven’t seen her clitoris to inspect it for telltale signs of androgen usage though.

            WA has a very libertarian CONSTITUTION. if the legislature had their way, this would be a leftwing hellhole nannystate, but they are (usually) thwarted by our constitution.

            in many cases where the constitutional issues don’t apply (poker being a C felony, a liquor board that lives the nannystate dream, ridiculous smoking bans, and strip club regulations that are ridiculously strict) they wreak their leftwing statist havoc as best they can

            however, in my state BECAUSE OF THE CONSTITUTION (generally) as well as some well thought out RCW’s – the burden is on the state to disprove self defense in ANY assault or deadly force case…

            that’s a plus

            cops cannot search cars “incident to arrest”

            DUI roadblocks are unconstitutional

            curfew laws are unconstitutional

            there is no drunk in public law

            there is no (state ) law against fighting in public

            pretext stops are unconstitutional

            etc.

            i chose this state, among other reasons, because its constitution respects personal rights

            1. You’ve just repeated back to me what I said.

              My experience in PA, where a guy named Poplawski made objective reporting impossible, differs from what you report in WA. And the experiences that I, and the people I know, have had are scary enough that I am even reticent to even have this conversation with you, a law enforcement officer.

              Without getting specific I can say that I live down the street from a bar where a lot of cops hang out, and occasionally I like to go in for a beer. It’s a cheap place and I usually see someone I know there. Sometimes no one I know will be there so I’ll have a couple of drafts and watch sports on the teevee. The cops there get real fucking comfortable, thinking themselves among friends, and guffaw it up about the shit they get away with. It’s fucking sickening, they remind me of that jackbooted child killer from ruby ridge that has sponsorship deals now.

              My buddy, who’s a mma instructor, said something one time and a bunch of them almost killed him.

              But, if what you say is true about WA, then I would truly like to live there.

              1. the idea of “objective reporting” isn’t even something i necessarily believe is POSSIBLE.

                i can’t speak for PA. about the most i’ve done in PA is drive through.

                i can tell you that cops do the black humour and hyperbole thing BIG TIME. a # of them have gotten in substantial trouble for it, especially with facebook (where what one says is no longer “between friends”)

                there was a case of a guy who commented (tongue firmly in cheek) on his facebook page how he had been on vacation for a while and needed to brush up on his investigative skills, so he was renting the movie “training day” in order to brush up on how to plant evidence, violate rights, etc.

                OBVIOUSLY he was joking.

                however, a (smart) defense attorney (whose job isn’t helping the truth get out, but to get his client off – that’s not a criticism, it’s just a statement of fact) found out and got the stuff and presented it to the jury who promptly acquitted the defendant (iirc the cop had found a gun on the guy, etc.)

                in another case, a cop was disciplined for posting on his facebook page how he was just a “trash collector”

                etc.

                my point is – yes, maybe these PA cops were dirty. otoh, maybe they were just talking more smack than sugar bear. i have no idea.

                i can just say i have never seen any “misconduct” beyond general laziness. i have also seen what *i* think is cowardice, but the latter has been so institutionalized by bureaucrats, cop-o-crats, and police academies, that it’s accepted.

                i had a woman once say “i don’t DO foot pursuits. they are too dangerous and i wouldn’t be able to do anything once i caught the guy because i’d be tired”

                people like that shouldn’t BE cops, but whatever

                but yes, what I say about WA is true.

                i used to be a cop in MA, btw (a small town) and my chief said right to my face – “i don’t care what the fuck people are smoking in the privacy of their homes, are we clear?”

              2. I’m trying to say that my initial post wasn’t supposed to come off as sarcastic as it does. I see this after rereading.

                My point (in my rambling reply) was that in the rustbelt, where I live, things are dramatically different.

                I do think that, at times, you can look at your colleagues actions through rose colored glasses, though.

                I honestly do believe that if more cops thought like you did then we wouldn’t see such anger and vitriol against the profession. But the job doesn’t attract libertarian minded people as it stands(drug war, etc).

                1. we really DON’T see the anger and vitriol towards the profession, though. that’s a point i’ve repeatedly reinforced with polling data.

                  OF COURSE the family of a guy shot by the cops (unless there is substantial irrefutable evidence right away that he clearly needed to be shot) are going to be skeptical, outraged, etc.

                  that’s natural.

                  however, it’s emotional, not “reasonable”

                  i am sure there are jurisdictions where cops will jack people up for a bud of weed, etc.

                  of course if the legislature hadn’t criminalized the shit in the first place that wouldn’t happen, but generally speaking – police forces generally reflect the values of their community AS WELL AS being restrained by the laws and constitutional boundaries of their jurisdictions – remember we are a republic and some states are MUCH more protective of liberty than others. the federal baseline is JUST THAT -a baseline. my state goes much further

                  i used to work in hawaii. it’s a VERY liberal state (in regards to search and seizure, miranda, etc.) but also a VERY punitive state when it comes to drug offenses. FAR more so than here.

                  iow, shit varies

                  but ime most of the stuff that reasonoids etc. blame cops for is (most, not all) the fault of legislators and judges. a warrant, for example, is essentially an order from a judge. judge’s should not sign no-knock warrants w/o strong cause.

                  heck, when i was in hawaii, we could not even SERVE warrants after 10 pm. why? because the LAW said so.

                  1. I agree to a point, but you must agree that there is a difference between reluctantly enforcing the law and gleefully knocking druggie head.

                    1. Horichi, that is that fucker’s(sniper) name.

                      Been trying to remember it.

                    2. the “knocking head” part aside, i know plenty of cops who think the drugz r evul ™, just like lots of non-cops and legislators do.

                      but it’s the LEGISLATORS that empower the state to enforce that opinion via the barrel of a gun

                      NOT the cops.

                      again, when it comes to complaints from citizens, you would be surprised what a substantial # consist of “do something about that druggie house on the corner”

                      furthermore, GIVEN the WOD (not the cops’ fault), a majority of the burglars, thieves etc. that victimize others are dopers.

                      we’ve got a local crew we are going after who commits tons of burglaries, car thefts etc. and they are ALL meth-heads

                      now, maybe they wouldn’t be scumbag thieves if meth was legal. regardless, the fact is they are scumbag thieves.

                      heck we did an awesome job of catching one of them yesterday, and using good tactics, we boxed in the car so they COULDn’T run (do the dangerous pursuit thing) and we caught him on foot in a neighborhood.

                      no shooting, no use of force, etc.

                      which is why you will NEVER read about it in the newspaper.

                      but i can guarantee you putting that one fuckhead in jail means there are probably about a dozen people who won’t have their cars stolen or house burglarized in the next few weeks

                      one of the female detectives who helped catch him caught a bank robber the other day. she chased him down. in HEELS.

                      will that make the paper? nope

                      but if she shot him it would

                    3. So you don’t think that the WOD and the erosion of civil liberties coupled with increased police power could possibly be attracting the wrong sort of of people to law enforcement?

                      If you have your skull cracked by an overzealous bully with a badge you don’t wake up in the hospital shaking your fist at legislators.

                    4. i think the wrong sort of people (amongst others) will ALWAYS be attracted to law enforcement. i also think, and ask anybody who knows a cop from “the old days” that cops were a LOT more heavy handed “back in the day” and far more likely to smack you with a baton then than now. and all the taser wanking aside (which some cops DO overuse), it’s far better than getting pummeled with a baton

                      i think LE agencies do a pretty good job of using the MMPI, background checks, polygraph, etc. etc. in weeding out most of the problem applicants. but the process is necessarily imperfect and some “overzealous bullies” make it through.

                      if the “skull cracking” was legally justified, then you will still probably wake up in the hospital shaking your fist. such is life. people don’t like being the recipients of force, generally speaking,. even if THEY brought it on themselves and it was entirely justified.

                      if a cop says “stop” and you start running, and you get tackled, that’s YOUR problem, not the cop’s.

                      otoh, if the cop used unjustified etc. force than he should be punished.

                      in SOME respects there is increased police power vis a vis the WOD, but it is hardly one sided. i have seen PLENTY of court cases that have restricted police powers. so, i think your bias is showing if you think cop power only expands.

                      and again, imo and ime (and it’s far more extensive than yours most likely) the war on domestic violence does far more to fuck with (especially the average innocent person’s) liberties than the WOD

                    5. oh btw in regards to the point about the “victim” of police shooting, just today

                      case in point

                      http://www.komonews.com/news/local/125685213.html

                      res ipsa loquitor

                    6. i think the wrong sort of people (amongst others) will ALWAYS be attracted to law enforcement. i also think, and ask anybody who knows a cop from “the old days” that cops were a LOT more heavy handed “back in the day” and far more likely to smack you with a baton then than now. and all the taser wanking aside (which some cops DO overuse), it’s far better than getting pummeled with a baton

                      This is particularly true if the arrested was a minority. Go read Charles Askins’s biography and be amazed that he didn’t end up in jail.

                    7. if the “skull cracking” was legally justified

                      Legal justification = “Stop Resisting!”,
                      or when an officer says he was justified.

                      otoh, if the cop used unjustified etc. force than he should be punished.

                      Should be and are, are two different things.

                      Also, not to be repetitive but if how you describe WA and the LE there, then it sounds like a good place. My experience, on the other hand, has been that most officers are bullying psychopaths.

                      And why shouldn’t the family be able to say something positive about their slain kin? It’s not as if anything will actually happen to the cop. Well he may get a taxpayer funded vacation, i.e. paid suspension.

                      But no, for the boys in blue they must have their violence glossed over and justified by a totally subservient media. It’s not enough to get away with murder, you want to be patted on the fucking back for it.

                    8. no, legal justification = exactly that.

                      period.

                      as for your strawman, nobody is saying the family shouldn’t be able to say whatever they want

                      my point is that contra the reason meme, which is that the media fawns over police offers and vilifies “victims” of police shootings… that is simply not true.

                      again, all i did was have to look at TODAY’s news to find a perfect counterexample where they did everything but put a halo over the guy’s head.

                      is the picture of him holdign the little baby ANYTHING but an appeal to emotion?

                      i mean, get fucking real

                      and like i said, almost always (not always, but ALMOST) the cops end up having to shoot somebody he’s a violent convicted felon. why is that? do cops run criminal background checks and decide to shoot only if he’s a scumbag?

                      no, the scumbags are the ones who would fight/attack the cops, shoot at them, whatever necessitating they got shot

                      consistently.

                      just like the guys who DO shoot, maim and kill cops ALMOST always (monfort a conspicuous exception) fit that profile – violent convicted felon

                      this idea that the media “glosses” over lol THEIR violence (when the violence is almost always instigated by the person the cop is dealing with) is laughable. again, it’s the reasonbias(tm), that your cognitive dissonance ignores the contrary.

                      so, i posted this article. from the very day i made this point, iow not cherry picked

                      the idea that a media that comes out with stories like this, not to mention movies like “training day” fawns over cops is RIDICULOUS

                      i don’t want cops to get away with murder. i want cops who use justified force to have due process protections (or even those that don’t) and they DO. and that’s a good thing

                      you operate from assumptions that are fallacious and not supported by evidence.

                      also, in regards to the “glossing” over, the fact is as i see every day that the VAST majority of arrests we make, even of very violent people who will kill or maim us if we give them the tiniest chance, are NON-violent, like the one i just mentioned where we chased the guy down on foot, or the one where the detective in high heels caught the bank robber

                      THEY DON’T MAKE THE PAPER

                      get it?

                    9. Here’s your halo, dumbass:

                      Gaswint has an extensive criminal history and went to prison for assaulting his wife.

                      Right before the family’s statement to the press.

                      How about this, cops will get the media coverage that you crave, but when they shoot someone to death in a scuffle they are treated exactly the same as a private citizen. Not a taxpayer funded vacation, oops sorry ‘administrative leave’, and an internal investigation with a predictable outcome.

                    10. and here’s your TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES DUMBASS, the picture of him holding a BABY for fucksakes and the “why why why” crap?

                      again, the point is that it is not ONE SIDED as you claim

                      there is no internal investigation with “predictable outcome” . when the shooting is UNJUSTIFIED, the investigation almost always rules that way

                      most police shootings ARE justified, just like most CCW’er shootings.

                      cops deserve the same due process that anybody else gets in a criminal investigation

                      you are confusing two concepts. sure, the cops get paid leave while the dept. investigates – that’s because IF the cop was acting correctly line of duty and they fired him or didn’t pay him, he would win a massive lawsuit. as he should.

                      you don’t fire or suspend somebody w/o due process. we have SIGNIFICANTLY less privacy rights during the application process and less rights as to free association etc. when working as a cop (consorting with known felons, etc.)

                      why should a cop get PUNISHED w/o due process. if and when the dept. finds the shooting unjustified, then they get canned. as happens all the time .

                      let’s not conflate two entirely unrelated issues -criminal and administrative.

                      and again, i can show story after story (i already showed one) that disproves the claim that media vilifies the “victims” (lol) of police shootings and props up the cop. this article shows they are more than willing to play the sympathy card with the “victims” as they do here. and yet again, the guy the cop shoots ends up being a violent convicted felon who was incarcerated for spouse abuse. how “shocking”. not

                    11. oh, and btw if the cop had “extensive criminal history and went to jail for spousal abuse” you can be damn sure the media would report that too.

                      hth

                    12. and if the “victim” of the police shootout had no criminal record, they would report THAT too.

                      it just SO rarely happens.

                    13. Please show me how the suspect was deified in this local news report. I’m not as quick as you are at finding this stuff so, if you would.

                    14. nice strawman. i didn’t say he was deified. i said the claims that they vilify them are untrue

                      iow, the press did not paint him as a scumbag and the cop as a hero as was claimed

                      iow, it’s not a simple binary that they either worship him or vilify them

                      the truth is IN THE MIDDLE which is my point all along.

                      the picture of him with the baby, and the reports of the incredulous family members prove my point

                      the reason meme ™ is that the press worships cops and demonizes the “victims” of “police violence”

                      that’s absurd and demonstrated as such\

                    15. i have never seen anywhere in the US where the news did not quote family members etc. of “victims of police violence”

                      Please see the local story that I linked to.

  20. A little more detail here:

    The family’s sorrow overflowed into a confrontation between members of Turner’s family and law enforcement officers at Kern Medical Center in the early hours of Sunday, according to law enforcement reports.

    Family members and friends arriving at the hospital learned that the Shafter High School star and former Cincinnati Bengals player died after being shot just before 1 a.m. Sunday by a Kern County Sheriff’s deputy at a Fastrip convenience store near the hospital.

    According to reports from KMC security officers, hospital CEO Paul Hensler said, the family was distraught when Kern County Coroner’s office staff informed them of Turner’s death.

  21. “VHS ALERT”?!? Don’t you mean “DVR ALERT”? I think VHS has gone the way of the eight-track.

    1. What the hell is DVR?

      Now get my lawn!

    2. I suspect VHS was meant ironically, RushMeister.

  22. OT, but more interesting than watching concrete cure:
    “Quit or be fired, educators implicated in Atlanta scandal told”
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/…..index.html

    1. We don’t see why anyone should be fired…

  23. OT, as well:

    How about the Nazi-Jihadist?

    This story seems a perfect fit for h&r. It’s got nazis, terrorists, and first amendment issues(Oh My!). What more could you ask for?

    1. You forgot a pedophilic minister and whoever diagnosed the Nazi with Asbergers!

      1. “Dear brothers and sisters, I have solid PROOF that one can legally purchase a firearm in America even if this person IS on the ‘terror watch’ list, just so long as they are not a convicted felon and are a US citizen over 18!” he allegedly wrote on Nov. 24, 2010. “My advice: As long as you still can, take advantage of this and MOVE… MOVE… MOVE…!!”

        And GUNZ, PSYCHO TERROR NAZIS, LOUGHNER!!!0ne –> 1/0

  24. I used to live in the Bay Area and the two or three times they closed the Bay Bridge for construction didn’t get half as much local coverage combined as this story has gotten national coverage. I live in Chicago now and sold my car, but I’m more prepared for the 405 closure than any other road maintenance in my entire life.

  25. By noon there will be a traffic jam on Wilshire completely comprised of people driving out to see how bad the traffic jam is.

    LA is an ouroboros of stupidity with an endlessly long tail.

  26. Another piece of writing that I will print out and use as Toilet Paper, or cut the paper in half and pick up two dog craps!

    1. Anti-Eco-Terrorist!!

  27. We have officially jumped the shark when it comes to TSA screening.

    1. Officers say Mihamae admitted to the crime.

      When grabbin’ a tit is a crime, then only the criminals will grab tits.

      So, yeah – TSA are criminals. QED!

    2. Bets on the groper getting the “sexual predator” label?

  28. Woman, 61, charged with sexual assault after ‘groping TSA agent’s left breast’

    A 61-year-old woman has been arrested for groping a female TSA agent’s breast.

    Yukari Mihamae was flying home to Colorado when she allegedly put her hands on the TSA agent at Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix, Arizona.

    Police said she is accused of grabbing the agent’s ‘left breast through her clothing and squeezing and twisting it with both hands without the victim’s permission’.


    It is not known why she touched the agent.

    Is this a great country, or what?

    1. Here, let me help you out:

      “Damn your quick fingers, sloopyinca.”

    2. Talk about your Security Kabuki.

      Hi-yoooooooo.

    3. The left breast of liberty!

        1. They work like this.

          The return of dicktits.

      1. From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the breast milk of patriots and tyrants.

        1. reminds me of the woman who was recently arrested for spraying a cop with breast milk straight from the boob- assault with a ridiculous weapon

    4. “Police said she is accused of grabbing the agent’s ‘left breast through her clothing and squeezing and twisting it with both hands without the victim’s permission’.”

      I could understand if the TSA agent got to grope her boobs, then turnabout should be fair play. I mean, if they can feel our junk, then we should be able to feel theirs too!

      Still, it sounds like what she did is more of a titty-twister–so unless the TSA agent gave her a titty-twister, that’s probably out of bounds.

      Still, I think we should at least be allowed to give the TSA agents an atomic wedgie or something–but only if they don’t find anything on us!

      It just seems fair.

      1. Some leftist is gonna jump on this, but… why is the TSA goon considered the “victim”?

      2. yes, and we should be able to give our physician a “turnabout is fair play” prostate exam as well.

        otoh, i am not a doctor but i am reasonably confident my MD, a woman, does not have a prostate.

        1. If I ever get a prostate exam, and feel hands on both shoulders… someone is gettin’ they ass kicked.

    5. Woman, 61, charged with sexual assault after ‘groping TSA agent’s left breast’

      Dammit, I want details! Which left breast?

    6. We don’t know whose side to take here.

      1. FEMINISTING: WOMEN NEVER LIE ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT

        FRATBOYS ARE ALL RAPISTS

        AS ARE MALE ATHLETES!

        THE DUKE WOMEN’S LACROSSE TEAM ARE TRAITORS TO WYMMINHOOD FOR STANDING BY THE DUKE RAPISTS

        I *KNOW* THOSE BOYS DID SOMETHING WRONG! THEY HIRED A STRIPPER AND DRANK ALCOHOL.

        THE VICTIM IN THIS CASE DESERVES RESPECT. SHE IS A WOMAN OF COLOR WORKING HER WAY THROUGH COLLEGE BY SERVING THE PATRIARCHY WHO EXPLOITS HER BODY

        SHE IS A WORKING CLASS SINGLE MOTHER!! SHE IS A VICTIM OF CAPITALIST PATRIARCHAL RACIST SEXIST HETEROSEXIST IMPERIALIST INSECTS!

        1. WOMEN MEN NEVER LIE ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT

          FRAT BOYS ARE ALL RAPISTS NEVER RAPE CAUSE THEIR MOMMIES, AND DADDIES WRITE CHECKS, HIRE LAWYERS, AND VOILA! THE RAPE WASN’T.

          AS ARE MALE ATHLETES NEVER GUILTY BECAUSE THOSE STEROIDS MAKE THEM TOO DOCILE TO FUCK!

          THE DUKE WOMEN’S LACROSSE TEAM ARE NOT TRAITORS TO WYMMINHOOD FOR STANDING BY THE DUKE RAPISTS BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW SLUTS, AND WHORES ARE NEVER RAPED, NEITHER ARE OLD LADIES, NOR BABIES, AND NEVER EVER BY BOYS IN AN IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL

          I *KNOW* THOSE BOYS NEVER DID SOMETHING ANYTHING WRONG! THEY HIRED A STRIPPER AND DRANK ALCOHOL, BUT THEY ALSO GO TO CHURCH, AND THAT MEANS THEY ARE BOY SCOUTS.

          THE VICTIM IN THIS CASE DESERVES RESPECT TILL WE FIGURE OUT TO SLANDER HER ASS, CAUSE IF WE DIG DEEP, WE KNOW THERE IS SOMETHING. IF NOT, WE CAN MAKE IT UP.

          SHE IS A WOMAN OF COLOR WORKING HER WAY THROUGH COLLEGE BY SERVING THE PATRIARCHY WHO EXPLOITS HER BODY. THE NERVE OF THE BITCH NOT GETTING ONBOARD!

          SHE IS A WORKING CLASS SINGLE MOTHER!! SHE IS A VICTIM OF CAPITALIST PATRIARCHAL RACIST SEXIST HETEROSEXIST IMPERIALIST INSECTS! FEMINAZI!!!!

          SHE MAY HAVE LIED BUT THE DUKE, AND THE DSK RAPE CASES ARE REMINDERS WE NEED TO EVALUATE EACH CASE INDIVIDUALLY, AND NOT ON PAST MEDIA SENSATIONS.

          1. Are you done, rather?

            My God, you are a fucking pussy.

            1. Shit! I love it; I want that on my business cards, and headstone

              1. “she may have lied”

                And ruined lives.

                1. Yes, some people lie about raping, and being raped. What’s your fucking point? It was one case

                  1. the POINT was that even when there was a metric assload of evidence that she was lying through her fucking teeth the “women are my team” bigots STILL ignored it, vilified the women’s lacrosse team for sticking by their fellow LAX players, and lauded the (moronic) cadre of duke academics who wrote a public letter condemning the duke “rapists’ for their being rapists, when in fact it was a suspect case from the beginning

                    to this DAY, feministing ideologues apologize for crystal mangum (who was just arrested for murder btw) and condemn the duke boys

                    the case stunk from the start, to ANYBODY with common sense.

                    recall also the “victim” reported a gang rape by 3 white guys years PRIOR to her duke report that was never prosecuted.

                    i wonder why

                    because she fucking made it up, too

                    1. So what you are saying is that because one group defended one woman that all feminist suck?

                      That a because a weak bunch of academics knelt to political pressure all feminist are unjust?

                      That because a woman faked a rape, it is not possible she was ever raped?

                      That because a woman was arrested for murder, years after an false rape complaint, that proves all woman who have criminal conviction/complaints to be always lying about rape?

                      How do you feel about cops who beat the shit out of others so that they can achieve sexual gratification? Does that make all cops deviant?

                    2. Pointing out liars is just as useful as pointing out actual perpetrators.

                      Defending liars is just as heinous as defending perpetrators.

                      This really isn’t that hard, rather. You just want to be a prick for no good purpose.

  29. The pics make the story – well done, TIMMEH!

    Also – ROADZZ! construction is the Cali equivalent of SnowPocoLypes[insert year/month/other identifier here] in the Midwest states.

    “OMG! IT’S GOING TO SNOW! LAY IN PROVISIONS!! STOCK UP ON WOOD/COAL!! BUY BATTERIES!!!11!”

    And based on the reports here, thus far you’ve received “a dusting”….

    1. Also, fuck California

  30. Yawn.

  31. “I have been more fascinated by the spectacle of big government and big media taking an easily resolved problem […] into a condescending exercise in lifestyle hectoring.”

    It really is hard for some to imagine that people might be able to solve their own problems for 53 hours–but if you can get ’em to accept that they can do it for 53 hours, maybe you can get ’em to consider the possibility that people might be able to solve some of their other problems too–on our own!

    The government is the cause of this problem–and people are the solution…

    I don’t know if that observation’s too complicated for some to understand or too simple–but there’s gotta be an explanation in there somewhere.

    1. Watch this one over here – inciting to riot, he is

    2. If only the people of LA had someone to tell them how to solve their own problems, they’d be ok.

      Those people are sheep, plain and simple. Every trip down there makes me yearn even more for the big one that erases the city from the map. Hell, I’ve already bought property in Otisburg in preparation for it.

      1. Um, I still have friends, family, business associates and investments in that town, so…

        Screw you!

        LA’s a great town in a lot of ways. There’s a reason people don’t know about the great parts of LA–the people who live here don’t want you to know.

        Even from a libertarian perspective… It’s so easy to get marijuana there, that the city started the process of zoning the dispensaries like liquor stores.

        Extremely large, wildly entrepreneurial immigrant base–most of whom are only hostile to the right because of that whole redneck aesthetic.

        1. most of whom are only hostile to the right because of that whole redneck aesthetic.

          This is odd to me.

          Of all the western cities LA has always seemed to be the most aesthetically “redneck”. Although I will admit there is also a vibe of rednecks trying desperately not to be rednecks.

          Self hating rednecks maybe?

          1. The Latino population definitely has a cowboy aesthetic thing goin’ on, but that’s not what I’m talking about.

            Immigrant bashing, hate on gay marriage, bible-thumping about intelligent design… If we could get the Republicans in the South and the Midwest to shut up about that inconsequential stuff for an election cycle or two, rationality might make a comeback in California politics. We’re still the land of Nixon and Reagan–conservatives who never gave the culture warriors much more than a wink and a smile.

            It’s those cosmetic “aesthetic” wedge issues–that’s why voters trend Democrat in California. It’s a reaction to what’s going on elsewhere in the country. Tip O’Neal said, “All politics is local”, but Ken Shultz says, “All California politics is national”.

        2. Yeah, I was obviously making a joke. There are great things about LA. Many of the people are libertarian in spirit but have been shackled by an overbearing government and have become accustomed to living under the thumb of oppression and can’t fathom a way out.

          But…
          They have a one party rule that plays class warfare.
          They have little fiefdoms set up to spread government influence even more (see Bell, etc) that are hotbeds of corruption, and people shrug their shoulders.
          Their school system is a joke, and people silently assent.
          Their cops are corrupt, and people cower down.

          Again, I think they are sheep for the most part. They do what the city tells them and vote for the same people over and over again, knowing that they will be worse off for it.

          And yes, it is the government’s fault. But it is the peoples’ responsibility to fix it, and they won’t.

          1. I think California is emblematic of problems we’re seeing nationally.

            I suspect LA may be less corrupt than what you see in New York or Chicago.

            I’m not so sure about the class warfare either. When I think of class warfare, I think of demagogues going after the rich–From Silicon Valley to Hollywood, California is one of the places where you’re likely to find people trend increasingly more liberal as they get more wealthy.

            Their liberal bias isn’t generally about class warfare. It’s about gay rights, tolerance for immigrants and environmentalism. When I think of class warfare, I think of Cleveland, Boston, Detroit and Chicago.

            1. You must not be thinking of Watts, the Rodney King verdict, etc.

              Maybe it’s race warfare as opposed to class warfare, since the rioters after the King verdict* went after every person they could get their hands on that wasn’t black. They didn’t care if you were rich or poor, if you were white or yellow, you were a target of their anger.

              *speaking of the King verdict, He just got arrested for DUI In Riverside this week. What a dumbass.

              1. I was in LA during the riots.

                Actually, I was literally in what they used to call South Central Los Angeles when the riots broke out.

                I’ll never forget that day. To make a long story short, I had to drive back through the rioters after I’d left them behind–I had a new employee at the hospital that day, who was wearing headphones. She was a transcriptionist–and she couldn’t have heard…

                Being a white boy, people at the time thought I was either stupid brave for going back or just plain stupid.

                Anyway, there were two phases of the riots. There was what broke out at Florence and Normandie the first day–and spread throughout the city.

                Then there was phase two the next day when everybody saw the cops weren’t doing anything to stop the looting. In the second looting phase that followed the first phase of the riot, most of the looters and “rioters” weren’t black.

                They just weren’t.

                Those two riots are often conflated but they shouldn’t be.

                There were a few very libertarian points that the riots really underscored for me. And I think it’s true what people say about it not really being about Rodney King.

                Libertarian Point #1: No Justice No Peace.

                The riot that started at Florence and Normandie wasn’t about Rodney King. It was about Darryl Gates. It was about black people being victimized by a brutal, racist police force that was headed by someone who was unaccountable to the mayor or the city council. If the people of what used to be called South Central Los Angeles couldn’t hold the police chief or the police accountable for their brutal treatment of black people in those neighborhoods–and those police couldn’t be held accountable by the court system either?

                Then the government loses all its legitimacy.

                It’s the same thing we saw happen in Tunisia. Why do we cheer on the people of Tunisia and condemn the people of South Central LA circa ’92?

                Because of the looting.

                The looting was a response to Darryl Gates’ decision not to resist the rioters. It was as simple as that. It’s hard to believe that when the chief of police goes on television showing everyone that the police aren’t going to do anything to stop looting–that everyone in the city who feels like they deserve something just helps themselves to whatever is in their neighborhood mall, but that’s exactly what happened.

                There’s no reason to blame the looting on the first phase riots though. I blame that on the incompetence of Darryl Gates.

                Libertarian Point#2: Nobody does self-defense better than self.

                The way those Korean businessmen in Koreatown organized themselves to protect themselves, their homes and their businesses and property–after the police completely abandoned them? Is a testament to why people should be free to arm themselves for self-defense. Before the national guard could show up, those Korean Americans defended themselves so admirably.

                It was bad enough sitting in my crummy apartment on Normandie in Gardena–which was a freaking shooting gallery. I used to hear shots and scream just about every other night. In the middle of a riot? Being one of only a few white people in the area?

                Nobody should have to live like that without a shotgun.

                Cops are no substitute for self-defense.

                1. “Libertarian Point #1: No Justice No Peace.”

                  I wish my fellow caucasians were as clear on that point…

                  What if we just stopped obeying the law once the law became so obviously unjust?

                  How bad does the government have to get before we finally do what the rioters did?

                  That’s what it took to get rid of a little police chief–Darryl Gates.

                  If white people sit around and take abuse day after day and–unlike the rioters of South Central LA–don’t do anything about it? That’s not a knock on the rioters of South Central LA.

                  1. Only someone with personal experience and the right perspective could put it as well as you just did.

                    You are so right on both points. Those rioters just after the verdict should never be confused with the looters, yet they are. That said, a lot of their violence was horribly misdirected (i’m thinking that innocent trucker who was nearly beaten to death), thus delegitimizing their anger.

                    Had they stormed city hall or the HQ of the LAPD, I would be much more in their corner.

                    1. Reginald Denny. IIRC

  32. The big nothing is quite like the rest of California!

  33. There being no traffic means the whole system is working, dumbass. Everyone needs to stay away from the roads to prevent traffic, hence there being no traffic.

  34. How the Robber Barons Railroaded America

    To gain an edge on their corporate rivals, railroad owners built expensive lines into drought-prone areas that had few settlers and little prospect of attracting more. To finance their risky endeavors, they routinely bribed politicians and borrowed money they could not pay back ? while publishing mendacious financial reports. To insure friendly coverage, railroad executives bankrolled local newspapers and arranged to kill or delay the publication of stories that might damage their interests. At the helm of a dangerous industry where workplace accidents were common, they resisted installing air brakes and other devices that would have sharply reduced the toll of maimings and deaths. “The Northern Pacific,” White says, “banned unnecessary whistle blowing on the Sabbath and profane language any day, but it slaughtered workers day in and day out.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07…..e.html?hpw

    1. Sounds like a good reason not to build any more railroads, doesn’t it?

      1. Well, one could argue the problem was the contracting out (“privatizing profits, socializing costs”), but I agree with you rail projects are like the last thing this country needs right now.

    2. FTA: “”Type of the modern! emblem of motion and power! pulse of the continent!” Walt Whitman sang in praise of the railroad. When he published those lines in 1876, the vast network that connected West to East was being widely hailed as the muscular marvel of the industrial age.”

      Cool story, bro! Now please tell us how this marvel of 19th Century technology is gonna be the springboard to the future.

    3. At the helm of a dangerous industry where workplace accidents were common, they resisted installing air brakes and other devices that would have sharply reduced the toll of maimings and deaths. “The Northern Pacific,” White says, “banned unnecessary whistle blowing on the Sabbath and profane language any day, but it slaughtered workers day in and day out.”

      Could you please link to the footnote the author supplied to support this assertion? I’ve got all day.

      1. Actually, many communities bannedwhistle blowing on Sunday and the railroads resisted it.

        Of course this is not the only example of businesses getting blamed for things that were the result of bad laws that they actully opposed.

      2. Did you just ask me for a “link” to a footnote in a book when I simply posted a review of the book?

        You are hereby no longer Captain Pedant but are now promoted to Major Pedant!

        1. I just asked if the author supplied any supporting evidence to his claim. I take it from your misdirection that it doesnt exist or you can’t access it.

          And if I’m Major Pedant, you are General Nuisance.

    4. MNG is shocked…shocked…that when the government doles out huge subsidies for unnecessary projects built years ahead of market demand, unscrupulous cronies of the politicians who voted for the subsidies swoop in to reap profits.

      MNG seems to have read this article and taken the wrong lesson from it. He’s still in favor of doling out huge subsidies for building unnecessary projects years ahead of market demand. And then he’ll blame the plutocrats of unearned wealth on unbridled laissez-fairs libetarianism.

      1. Do you sell a product called Chock-ful-a-assumptions?

        Because I’ve pretty vocally opposed the rail projects the left currently supports and nearly every subsidy I can think of as well as the Obama stimulus. And you assume I’m shocked by this article…If you read the article it actually has a lot a libertarian can point to in it (it talks about how the barrons worked with their friends in government to gain many of their advantages).

        I actually posted it because I remember a discussion here years ago where joe argued that the size of government may be irrelevant for rent seeking, whatever government exists will be used by the really powerful to enrich themselves further. Upthread fluffy refers to this very period in question as a marker for small government and yet here we see rent-seeking at an awful level.

        1. I was already aware of this book, having heard an interview with the author on NPR.

          Interestingly in that interview the stress was far more on the author’s identifying the problem as one of misallocated investment caused by subsidies promoting something there was no real demand for. It really did get at things that libertarians relate to like the creation of “too big to fail” corporations.

          The NYT article OTOH throws the emphasis on the bad corporate actors with only passing reference to the political enablers as well making the unfounded assertion that you saw fit to include in your quote that sloopy notes above. It also includes the gem that if the administrations of the late nineteenth century had only bailed out the bad actors the way GWB and BHO did in the late aughts of the 21st they’d have avoided all those nasty financial crises they had. The author I heard interviewed gave no indication that he had put anything like that in his book. In fact, he suggested the opposite. Without further evidence, I’m going to assume the NYT writer simply made that up because it fits his belief system.

          That said, if I made unwarranted assumptions about your position, I apologize.

          1. No apologies necessary, sorry if I got my back up in turn.

            I thought the throw away line about the bailout seemed awful tacked on!

            As to the corporate bad actors, it is possible for corporate actors to be quite the assholes, especially when they have politicians in their pocket…They could have cut corners regarding safety to the misfortune of their employees, especially considering things such as the competitive advantage they gained via rent seeking and the government cutting off many options for some of their workers (discrimination against Chinese workers for example).

    5. Hey, MNG:
      “According to hospital records, 5,609 lives were lost from disease and accidents during the American construction era.”
      http://www.pancanal.com/eng/hi…..y/end.html
      Of course I know you were only posting the review for general information; you’d *never* be pitching a statist view, would you?
      So, of course I have no intent on pointing out your cherry-picking by posting this link.

      1. Dude, one need not even click on your link to see that your figure is for the Panama Canal construction alone!

  35. Articles like this remind me why I don’t watch TV. It is like the whole Casey Anthony trial. I was blissfully oblivious of the trial until her verdict was announced.

    Please don’t respond to this comment if you are an insecure douche who thinks I am insulting you because you watch TV.

  36. Elitist!

    1. Wow. I’d heard of it before, but damn that’s impressive. And “professional” “consultants” are getting pissed. His invention helped a 10 year old kid learn trigonometry, and these assholes are whining about how it doesn’t fit their fucking models. Here’s an idea: use your models to create something as useful, and compete to see who’s is better. Or else suck it up, assholes, and admit you have just been run over by history.

    1. One of my cousins worked in a meat plant for a while. I’d like to claim that I don’t eat hot dogs any more, but they’re just too damn tasty for me to care what gets shoveled into the hot dog machine.

      1. A nerd I work with has this T-shirt. I personally prefer this explanation.

    2. Oh wow, J-Lo is going topless in her next movie?

    3. Paris Hilton got an LF-A wtf!

    4. Damn, Snooki is looking more haggard than usual.

      1. ahhhhh Snooki. White trash is now available in orange.

      2. Merle Haggard?

  37. Eh. No surprise. I remember a friend’s story of trying to drive on the 91 from Redondo to Colton during the Rodney King riots. It didn’t occur to me that a 405 closure would be more of a traffic nightmare than his experience.

    1. Judge did the wrong thing here.

  38. Big lol at the folks upthread that think suburbs are a free market innovation. Wrong boys, suburbs are a result of government interference in the market. If you like your home, great, but don’t go around claiming its some pinnacle of free market innovation.

    The free market state of civilization is the dense urban core surrounded by vast rural areas, and it has been that way since pretty much the dawn of civilization. There’s a reason why suburbs rose up to dominance in the 20th century, and it is precisely because the government interfered in the market.

    And before someone goes “b-b-but public transportation is the only thing that enables cities!”, keep in mind privately-owned “public transportation” is (and was) actually profitable in dense urban areas.

  39. I think the writer missed the point: All the hysterics worked to scare people off. If enough people clear out on the weekend or stay home or use the metro, the gain is immeasurable. The Olympics were great for a similar reason.

  40. So the vast conspiracy between police, hospital officials, the coroner’s office, and the media continues apace.

    Fucking controlling the narrative– how does it work?

  41. He’s still in favor of doling out huge subsidies for building unnecessary projects years ahead of market demand. And then he’ll blame the plutocrats of unearned wealth on unbridled laissez-fairs libetarianism.

    Government functionaries are immune from venal self-aggrandizement.

    1. Boy, you must really hate threaded comments, Brooksie.

  42. You have to admire the leaps of doublethink necessary to believe at the same time that the entire justice system is skewed toward the cops in shooting cases, and that the cops feel it necessary to shut family members of the deceased up.

    Doublethink?

    Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.

    1. it’s much like the illogic of the 9/11 truthers and their theory of the all powerful hypercompetent govt. which could plant bombs in the WTC and set them off precisely without ANYBODY leaking the story or a single piece of explosive equipment found at ground zero

      govt. is simultaneously profoundly evul and profoundly competent – when it needs to be

      1. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction.

        70% of the American people thought Saddam Hussein was personally complicit in 9/11–and they thought that months and months AFTER we invaded Iraq.

        http://www.usatoday.com/news/w…..iraq_x.htm

        September 6, 2003

        And the truth? The truth is that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with YellowCake in Niger. The truth is that Saddam Hussein had no real ties to Al Qaeda at all? …and that Colin Powell went in front of the American people and the world showing us all photographs of mobile WMD labs–photographs that were basically phony? Because he himself was fooled by his Defense Department intelligence?

        The truth is that Osama bin Laden escaped being surrounded by way of his contacts within the Afghan forces who had been warring against him for a decade? And he was eventually killed in a raid by American black ops, who promptly dumped his body at sea and refuse to release the photos of his dead body?

        That’s the truth–and you blame people for believing in conspiracy theories?

        Why?

        Sacco and Vanzetti were probably innocent. Julius Rosenberg was certainly guilty of espionage–and you wonder why people believe in conspiracy theories?

        70% of the American people believed in a conspiracy theory George W. Bush sold the American people about Iraq. The American people still haven’t gotten over being fooled.

        There’s no shame in being fooled. But there’s shame in trying to shut up those who would question the standard narrative. If people go around mistrusting the American government–what difference does it make?

        1. nobody is trying to shut up jackshit and jack left town. the 9/11 conspiracy loons have all the free speech rights they want to make foolz of themselves, i have the right to call them the fools that they are

          the idea that a govt. so profoundly evil and competent as to MIHOP the 9/11 thang , building 7, and the towers themselves and THEN not competent or evil enough to simply PLANT SOME FUCKING WMD’S IN IRAQ (which would have been immensely easier than orchestrating 9/11 or demolishing the towers) simply does not pass ANY smell test.

  43. I’m stickin’ it to The Man, Sloopy.

  44. Is this YouTube?

  45. You’re slipping, Fosdick; no LAWFUL ORDER TO SUBMIT?

    I am disappoint.

    1. submit to what? your trolling attempts ? :l

  46. Apparently Carmageddon has made it easier for high speed pursuits…

  47. Carmageddon is just beautiful.. i love that place

  48. dunphy|7.16.11 @ 5:50PM

    leftists believe the ultimate expression of love of their fellow man is running their lives via the barrel of a gun.

    Like when a sheriff’s deputy kills a guy in a parking lot who may or may not have been buying teh Demon Rum for “children” for example.

    And you’re okay with that, as long as you’re on the trigger-pulling end of that gun; right, Fearless Fosdick? You noble libertarian agent of the state, you.

  49. I’m going to photoblog the next water main break in my neighborhood. 🙂

  50. dumpy dunphy and slather rather arguing = knife fight between two one armed retarded rhesus monkeys wearing strapon dildos while ass deep in a Jello pit.

  51. Tim, if “they” hadn’t made a big deal about it, it WOULD have been a traffic disaster…

  52. Whole thing sounds pretty incredible when you rreally think about it.

    http://www.complete-privacy.us.tc

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