Let Them Live in Houses!
Economist Arnold Kling tells the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs that it isn't always a good thing to give people low-down-payment housing loans. He said that buying a $200K home with $5K was essentially gambling. Then:
Senator Merkley of Oregon said that in his working-class neighborhoods with $200,000 homes, hardly anyone could afford a 20 percent down payment of $40,000. Housing advocate Janneke Ratcliffe said that in 2010, fifty-seven percent of home purchases were made with down payments of less than 10 percent.
In citing those facts, they want me to react by being more tolerant of low-down-payment home purchases. Instead, my reaction is:
YIKES!
Where are all the affluent, financially prudent home buyers, who can afford a 20 percent down payment? If there are not many of them out there, what does that say about the financial health of the middle class these days? Or, if there are a lot of them out there but they are sitting out this housing market, presumably they are pessimistic about house prices….What if they know something?
Ms. Ratcliffe cited statistics for what she claimed were low-down-payment loans done "right" over the past decade that have only experienced a 5 percent default rate. In response, I argued that a 5 percent default rate is high, which is a strong point. However, an even stronger point would have been:
The 5 percent default rate is only the tip of the iceberg of the devastation those loans have called. Think of all the people who did not default, but who still owe more on their mortgages than their houses are worth. Their lenders may not be unhappy. But thanks to you, those households now have negative savings. And you are proud of that? You should be ashamed of that.
Now that might have been uncivil. But the point that leverage works both ways is worth emphasizing. If you buy a house with 2 percent down and the price goes up, you win. If the price goes down, you lose. You may have less down side than up side, because you can default on the loan and make the lender eat much of the loss. But it is still gambling.
Another way of making the point would have been to ask Ms. Ratcliffe and the Democratic Senators if any of them eats their own dog food. That is, if buying a home that costs 20 times your net worth is so good for the working class, is that what you yourself have done? Have you levered up in housing to 20 times your net worth?
Housing advocates who pose as friends of the middle class are instead perhaps its worst enemies.
Matt Welch from earlier this week on the not-quick-enough slide in housing prices.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
If you buy a house with 2 percent down and the price goes up, you win. If the price goes down, you lose.
I never understand this sort of thing. You are living in the house you wanted. You saw a piece of property; you negotiated on a price; you now have the property and are paying that price.
How have you "lost," exactly? What does the home's currently appraised value have to do with anything?
So, if you go in the store and buy a shirt for $50, and the next day that exact shirt goes on sale for $20, you are not going to try to return the shirt and then rebuy it for $30 less?
Only if the store has that policy.
If they have a "no return policy", then no, Im not going to do that.
Foreclosure is certainly a way to "return" a house.
In a recourse state, that could come with an expensive restocking fee.
Even in a recourse state, you can file for bankruptcy.
And how's that going to work out for buying another house any time soon, as the shirt metaphor suggests?
Just go out and RENT.
Strategically Default, save the $$$ you would have paid in Mortgage Payments, give your NEW land-lord a years worth of RENT, and Keep the change.
NO ONE WILL TURN U AWAY with a YEARS worth of CASH. Just gotta make sure your next Land-Lord isn't PRO-BUSINESS and is Default as well.
You don't even need to invent an example. I'm already in the middle of one, just like many of us are: my car.
In 2008, I agreed to pay $20,000 for it. I worked out an agreement to pay that over several years. And so today I continue to pay for something that is not at the moment considered to be worth $20,000.
How have I lost? Have I "lost" in some manner that I wouldn't have if I'd just paid the $20,000 (or the $200,000 for a house) up front?
You have lost in the sense that, if something happens and you can no longer afford the monthly payments and need to sell the car, you can sell the car for say hypothetically $12,000 today, but your remaining balance on the loan is $14,000. Therefore, you have lost $2,000.
That $2,000 isn't "lost." Where did you get such a foolish thought?
That $2,000 is the balanced owed if car seller pays on the loan the $12k gained from the street sale.
Hence the seller "loses" that money above and beyond what his debt service to date has been. Its like a balloon payment if you will. I'm not suggesting that the money ceases to exist, I'm suggesting that the seller is responsible for making up the difference between the value of the asset and the amount owed, and therefore loses whatever that difference is (or in the case of an appreciating asset, gains whatever the difference is).
It's not a loss. The once car owner owes on a loan. That's a debt.
You are looking at it from hypothetical hindsight and confusing the belief that someone has overpaid for a product -- the car.
A asset is an accounting sheet entry that records capital.
You've conflated asset with capital, which is an intermediary good used to earn income.
Unless the person has bought the car for business purposes, the car isn't capital and cannot get considered as an asset. And if that were the case, then we would need to account for depreciation.
Perhaps you are thinking that if the owner of the title to the car pledged the car as collateral for a personal loan, the acceptor of such collateral could record the car as an asset on his balance sheet.
Otherwise, the car is merely a product sold and consumer good bought. In the above, TomD is right.
You and others seem to be stuck on the same accepted persuasion said by politicians to justify subsidizing bankers of late: something happens to the borrower and he or she "can no longer afford to make payments ..." as well as claim of borrowers being under water, as it gets said.
In the end, all of this comes down this: bad decisions by individuals -- entering into credit contracts -- without contingency. Blaming a bogeyman does not obviate reality.
Use of the car for 3 years has a value. Add that to your "loss".
subtract "from".
Thank you, rac.
I have been making that point for years.
You don't hear people bitching that they are underwater on the coffee maker that they paid for with a credit card. Well, maybe you do.
That's the wrong way to look at it. The loss is from opportunity costs.
Either, their monthly mortgage X and the price to rent a similar property is Y. Your monthly losses are X-Y when X > Y. Or...
If they had waited two years to buy your house, the monthly mortgage would have been Y. Your monthly losses are X-Y when X > Y.
But, the people that put 5% down are also losing by paying the Mortgage costs X, plus Z for PMI or Z for a loan to get the 20% down to avoid PMI. They have a house that's 10% or more underwater with a monthly mortgage and PMI payment that is 20% higher than the current rent on a similar house next door. And the house is too big for their needs with a brand new, $10,000 granite countertop in the kitchen, can't forget that bit.
People do tend to shop for cars that have high resale values. Perhaps the actual value of the car over time does mean something.
Value is not a quality, an aspect of a thing residing absolutely within it; nor does it arise from utility or cost of production or any other claimed intrinsic quality.
Value results from the expression of a ratio of importance between two commodities. When one of those two commodities is money, we give value another name -- PRICE.
At best, all you can claim is that some buy cars because they believe such cars, if sold later, might fetch prices nearer to the original prices paid to buy those cars.
Yet, to claim that things have "high resale values" is to reveal that one has been suckered by marketing pitches.
Fine fine, you stick with your GM I'll stay with Honda.
Honda? Ha ha. I'll stick with my Porsche.
Porsche? Ha ha. I'll stick with my Bentley.
My other car is a Bugatti Veyron.
My other car is a Freakin' Spaceship.
Where's your DMV? Uranus?
You have "lost" in the sense that you now owe more on the asset than the market value of the asset. Now, granted, you have fulfilled a need for shelter. And depending on the amount of the decline in price, you may still end up saving more than you lost in equity insofar as you are able to save tax liability via mortgage interest deduction.
But the fact remains that if you are forced to sell the asset, you will have to make up the difference between the price you sell it for and the amount you owe, hence the loss.
A asset is an accounting sheet entry that records capital.
You've conflated asset with capital, which is an intermediary good used to earn income.
Houses bought to be lived in by those who buy them and not rented to others are not capital.
No "loss" happens, as you purport.
Al and Sudden are both looking for places to live, both have $10,000 in savings.
Al uses his $10,000 as a downpayment on a house priced at $200,000, with a monthly payment of $1200.
Sudden rents an apartment or home of similar utility and appeal for $1200/month.
Two years later, both are forced to relocate. Al's house has declined in value by 10%, and is now worth $180,000. Al owes $185,189 on the house. Al's total cost of "ownership" over the two year period, not including any repairs or property taxes, is the cost of debt service ($28,800), plus the amount lost on down payment ($10,000), plus the difference between what is owed and what the property sells for ($5,189). Al's total cost of ownership is $43,989.
Sudden rented at the same monthly rate as Al's downpayment. He was not responsible for repairs (as a tenant), nor property tax. He has saved his $10,000, which wasn't lost as a downpayment when equity dropped. His only cost has been the rents of $28,800 over the last 24 month.
Therefore Al, you lost $15,189, the exact amount of depreciation of the home less principal paid on the mortgage. We both received the same benefit of shelter for two years. Granted, this doesn't account for the mortgage interest deduction, but if you'd like to, the morgage interest over that period is ~$24,000. So it is gov't tax policy that has made you actually gain from the loss over the last two years. But only with that POLICY is it not a loss (and only assuming that you have a tax liability large enough for that full deduction annually).
I rounded the 1200. Its actually 1139.15 based on 6% r and a 360 n. So the analysis a bit off. $27,340 over the 24 months. But the loss is still evident, until tax treatment is factored.
Sorry, I messed up again. Even factoring in the deduction for mortgage interest, assume the $24,000 is written off at a 40% marginal tax rate, you're still only saving $9,600 there... so you're still in the hole over $5,000 on the purchase vs. Sudden the renter.
Sorry, mofo, you lose!
"Mofo?"
What a nerd you are. Are you flexing your Internet board muscles?
But... I rent!
You shouldn't buy a house if you plan to sell it after 2 years (or really anything less than 5 years). Over time, rents rise, while a fixed rate mortgage will not.
Your example bears no fruit. For anyone else can conceive of a third person who rather than buying control of a deed or renting, lived homeless behind the supermarket.
In short, you've not compared like things.
I'm sorry to tell you this Sudden, but you suffer from a slew of false beliefs.
[1] scratch your claim of "savings" -- it's a false concept.
Try Al and Sudden have $10,000, cash in hand.
[2] scratch your claim of alike "utility" -- it's a false concept
[3] no one "owes ... on the house."
The borrower rented (borrowed) checking account bank credits from a banker, which he or she used as an economic quantity of purchasing to gain control of the deed of improved land (buy a house).
[4] As a renter, Sudden paid for both repairs and property taxes with every monthly rent check. Sudden did not realize this because your landlord did not itemize your "monthly bill."
---
The house buyer spent $10,000. The house buyer didn't "lose" this $10k as you call a down payment.
You say: "Sudden rented at the same monthly rate as Al's down payment." means Sudden paid $10,000 a month or $120,000 a year. Surely, you didn't mean to write that. Perhaps you meant to say that Sudden paid $833.33 a month to rent an apartment.
Yet, later on you claim that Sudden paid a total of $28,800 in rent, so you must have meant that Sudden paid at the rate of $1,200 a month rent.
Yet, Al borrowed $190,000 and not $200,000. Al sold the right to control the deed for $180,000.
[1] $190,000 - 185,189 = $4,811 interest paid
[2] $185,189 - $180,000 = $5,189 owed after sale
[3] $4,811 + $5,189 = $10,000 total spent
$10,000 does not equal $43,989, regardless of your tortured math.
Because tax deduction for mortgage interest paid exists, Al offset that $4,811 against other income.
Sudden deposited his $10,000 with a banker, that is sold his money for checking account credits, and earned a paltry 0.50%
The right way to look at it is thus:
What could Al or Sudden have done with the $10,000 other than spending on controlling a deed or buying checking account credits?
I meant to state that Sudden rented at the same rate as Al's monthly mortgage payment, yes.
as for [1] $190,000 - 185,189 = $4,811 interest paid Really man>?
Al paid 24 months at rate of $1,139.15/month = $27,340. The $4,811 is the principal paid. The remainder is interest paid (check the amort table for example).
Either way, yes, the net amount owed after sale is $10,000. Al also spent $10,000 on the downpayment that Sudden did not have to for renting. That's $20,000 in capital losses. Meanwhile Sudden still has the $10,000 cash in hand (or more likely, $10,000 +/- some rate of return/loss on what he would've otherwise done with his money over this period).
Sudden paid $28,800 for the right to live in his apartment/home over the last 24 months (don't call it utility if you don't want to, but I know of no other appropriate term for comparing two items of identical intrinsic value). Al paid $43,000+ to live in a comparable home (not counting property commissions to realtors upon purcahse and sale, but not factoring tax savings).
Yes, you're right. Good catch. The correct label should have been
principal paid, not interest paid.
No such thing has intrinsic value. Where did you get that silly, false belief?
Your claim of "comparable home" is mere rhetoric. I can play the same game. A crappy, dumpy apartment where you must adhere to your landlord's demands is not the same as a owing the deed to a house where you can hold XXX orgies with hoards of hot women all day and night.
Al paid more for the right to control a deed and all that comes with it. Sudden lived a mediocre life by having his life dictated by a landlord.
Thus, Al spent more to live than Sudden. Al didn't "lose" anything as Sudden purports.
You can also rents houses.
He's right from the opportunity cost stand-point with his example.
In general, if you are going to live in a place for 10+ years, buy a house. Under 10 years, and renting might be a better financial decision.
Under 5 years? I'd advise renting unless you really understand real estate.
If you're buying the house as an investment, it is a bad thing. But it's still bad if you bought it just to be a home. That's beause we're not talking about a 5 year car loan, but a 30 year property loan.
Ten years down the road you lose your job. You can't make the mortgage payment, so you need to downgrade to renting (contrary to pundits, there is nothing evil about being a renter). If you have equity, you can sell and have a small profit left over to tide you through the rough times. But if you only put down 5% you're not going to have equity for a very long time.
Or maybe you don't lose your job, but are bless with more children than your home can handle. So you need to move up into a bigger home. But you STILL don't have equity! You're going to end up paying for two homes.
Frankly, 5% down payments should not be called mortgages, they should be called "rent to own houses".
Sorry, confused prose above. My basic point is, you might need to sell the home before the 30 years is up. A falling house price is bad for that reason.
Then you shouldn't have bought an overpriced house. How was it not obvious to everyone that the recent run up in housing prices was not a bubble that was bound to pop eventually?
Because people like Obama are morons who think they are smart.
If you're a responsible person, in the 10 years before you were fired, you saved money and can afford to dump the house and go back to renting. All decisions depend on the specific circumstances of the individual.
The point the economist should have been making is not that the homeowners are gambling (they're not), but that the congress is gambling with taxpayers money by guaranteeing payoff on these debts by bailing out the banks. People should be rightly pissed off that the government is gambling with their money instead of spending it on societal function necessities.
What gave you the false belief that a down payment equates to equity?
Equity is the difference between the fetched street price and summation of any encumbrances.
Estimated equity is the difference between the estimated street price upon a sale if such a sale were to happen and summation of any encumbrances.
Also, while your "[T]en years down the road you lose your job" story tugs at the heart strings of many, such a story has nothing to do with these: equity, price paid, estimated street price at the time of the job loss.
Okay, I used the wrong word. So sue me.
Words are labels to concepts. If you used the wrong word, you thought with the wrong concept.
In short, your wrong conclusions come from false beliefs (wrong premises).
No, he didn't use the wrong word, you failed at reading comp.
Equity = Market Value (or street price if that's your preferred nomenclature man) less liabilities/encumberances
the difference between sales price of something and the encumberances on it?
Thats called a capital gain/loss
Equity is what I said it is.
Equity is the difference between the fetched street price and summation of any encumbrances.
Estimated equity is the difference between the estimated street price upon a sale if such a sale were to happen and summation of any encumbrances.
Value results from the expression of a ratio of importance between two commodities. When one of those two commodities is money, we give value another name -- PRICE.
Capital loss or capital gain relates to investment into capital -- which is anything used in production of a product intended for sale. The word capital comes from the Latin 'caput' for head and means the source of a spring, the fountain head, the source from which increase, profit, revenue flows.
Houses bought to live in by buyers are not capital. Such houses are goods.
Only those houses bought for income through rent or bought on speculation of price appreciation but not lived in are capital.
Jesus Christ, your constant quibbling over semantics is frustrating. Like that crap about "savings" earlier. It isn't called a "cash on hand" account, it's a fucking "savings" account. I don't "retain increased cash on hand", I "save" money. I understand the distinctions you're drawing, but you come across as an insufferable high-and-might know-it-all when you spend more time trying to correct people into using your preferred technical terms than you do exchanging ideas with them.
Chomsky much?
The supposed reasoning is that a home should be an ATM machine--the whole "having adequate shelter" thing is just a side benefit to drawing on a house's equity for the rest of your life. That mindset is what got a lot of people in trouble when the housing bubble popped.
"Where are all the affluent, financially prudent home buyers, who can afford a 20 percent down payment? If there are not many of them out there, what does that say about the financial health of the middle class these days?"
What fucking planet does Kling live on or if he lives on this one how can someone this stupid manage to feed themselves? Where are all the people with 20% down? Well, they were eliminated by the great inflation of the 1970s, the rise of student loan debt, and the rise in government and state and local taxes. That is where they are you fucking moron. We have spent the last 40 years waging war on savers and producers and making houses the only tax shelter and investment available to average people. Now this dumb ass acts suprised that housing is obscenely expensive and no one has any money saved for a down payment.
Im right here.
I was eliminated by none of those things.
Bought my condo in 1998 with 20% down. Bought my current house with 49% down.
I inherited my grandfather's estate which included homes. The one I chose to live in is great. Zero down, zero owed. It should be like this for more people, but as John pointed out, government fucked it up.
I inherited my grandfather's estate which included homes.
Dammit, another one who got away.
It's 2011 now Warren. You got your wish.
Yes, but think of all the businesses that I lost out on. Nothing warms my heart more than seeing a grieving family watch while I take away everything their parents or grandparents worked so hard to build.
I put 20% down in the late 90's, when the Los Angeles real estate market was still affordable. And so did most of my friends.
BUT...that 20% down generally came from our parents and grandparents, who kept hammering away at us "Why are you shelling all this money on RENT? You need to BUY." Not wanting to upset Mom and Dad, we unselfishly took the cash.
I dont get why you have a problem with Kling, he is saying all the right things. [insert standard libertarian disclaimer here] If the banks had held to the old 20% standard, they wouldnt have got into so much trouble. And people would have bought smaller houses. And there wouldnt have been a bubble (or at least not as large a bubble).
If the banks had held to the old 20% standard, they would have gone out of the mortgage business because they would have had no business. The bank down the street that didn't hold to the 20% standard would have had all the business. Now if you mean ALL the banks had held to the old 20% standard, that would only have been the case if there wasn't a secondary market for the shitty mortgages (fanny, freddy).
Well, if Im decreeing things, the nonexistence of Fanny and Freddie could be assumed.
You probably need to decree the nonexistence of FDIC as well.
The wreckless bank that makes a zero-down mortgage has the same FDIC insurance as the most prudent bank.
Absent Fannie and Freddie, the wreckless bank could hold its risky mortgages, and make extraordinary returns on bank capital until the bubble burst. Depositors with an FDIC guarantee don't care. The wreckless bank could grow and grow until it joined the ranks of "too big to fail". Then, they'd have the Fed as a backstop as well. Perhaps you also need to decree the the nonexistence of the Fed. Better yet, decree the nonexistence of federal involvement in mortgage finance and banking in general. Good luck!
And without a bailout, the bank down the street goes out of business and the 20% bank scoops up all their mortages for pennies on the dollar.
Everyone (except the idiot bank) is a winner!
No it doesn't because it has sold upon the ink drying all of the shitty mortgages into the secondary market. That bank down the street has already deposited their loan fee, setup charge and kickback from the appraiser and inspectors. They've made their money and sold off the risk. Most mortgage companies didn't go bankrupt or got bailed out, they just ceased doing business because the real estate market sank.
The buyers of the mortgages or MBSes failed (except for being bailed out). Whatever, the point is the risk needed to be risk. Then the prudent bank could sweep in and buy up the MBSes at a non-risky point.
Which is just another way of saying: to the degree that you outlaw the effects of bad behavior, you outlaw the pursuit of good behavior.
Really it boiled down the congress promising the banks they had the backing of every taxpayer to bail out the deadbeats and morons they were lending 95+% of the home value to.
Really it boiled down the congress promising the banks they had the backing of every taxpayer to bail out the deadbeats and morons they that were lending 95+% of the home value
FIFY
equally true
I'm here too. I put down 20% for my home. I saved for it. My income is below average for the area, but I managed to save for a down payment. It took me ten years, but I did it. If you can't spend ten years saving up for a thirty year mortgage, perhaps you should consider renting.
What if you can spend ten years saving but prefer not to? 13 years ago I put down 3% on a 30 year mortgage that will be paid off in two more years, 15 years early. What would I have gained by continuing to pay someone else rent for 10 years rather than paying down my own mortgage?
Different strokes for different folks. Sounds like you had a better income situation than Brandybuck did.
I put 20% down on my house. PMI is a bitch.
Me too. Fuck PMI.
Eliminate the God damned home mortgage deduction, eliminate taxes on savings interest and capital gains and make it so it pays to save rather than buy a house. Until you that, people like Kling are just pissing in the wind.
THIS.
John couldn't be more right on this point. Even a person of financial savvy could make the case for overleveraging on home purchase (if lacking a sufficient downpayment) because, assuming a decrease in overall home value is not overly significant, the savings in tax liability will sufficiently offset the loss in equity/negative equity. Moreover, this can even incentivize someone with a sufficient 20% downpayment to chose a lesser downpayment because it increases their interest write-off.
you're not exactly winning by leveraging up and taking the deduction unless you can make money on the interest saved (which would require greater than a 5% return now). yeah, good luck.
Granted, the treatment of the interest deduction and the benefits thereof are hard to generalize because so much depends on marginal rate paid on amount deducted in order to yeild overall "savings". But it still distorts the incentives to a large degree.
thats the point... it still makes borrowing less expensive and therefore leverage less expensive than it would otherwise. Thats the point of the tax deduction int he first place, to get peopel to buy homes.
But this just means we drive up the price of the home - we pay a lower interest rate but are willing to borrow a larger amount.
Get rid of the deduction and home prices fall and leverage decreases. This would be a hit for people already owning homes, but it would get the housing market back into some sence of sanity where down payments are larger.
at best it reduces the cost from 5% to 3.5%
Eliminate the God damned home mortgage deduction
along with it, could you get rid of business capital depreciation deductions?
We let business depreciate capital because they use up capital and we want to encourage them to replenish their capital stock. You don't use up a house. And why do we want to encourage people to put more of their wealth in housing?
Well, you *do* 'use up' a house, but you don't get a deduction for any other personal consumable spending, so I agree you shouldn't get one for what you spend to maintain your house either.
most other personal expenses aren't duplicable with business expenses (or atleast they shouldn't be). A person probably doesn't want a professional copier or a backhoe, but a house to a landlord or individual means the same thing. A landlord can live in his house just like an individual.
yes you absolutely use up a house unless you live in a magical house that isn't subject to environmental attack and owner wear.
and why should a landlord be considered above a homeowner when that's just encouraging landlords to leverage compared with homeowners.
John and I are in complete agreement.
Can people afford to put down 20% of the home's actual value?
"Can people afford to put down 20% of the home's actual value?"
Yes, because the "actual" value will be established by those criteria.
If the asking price is too high, it can sit there unsold until the price falls.
I believe FoE's point is that, if the
stupid html fcking with my lesser than signs... cont'd:
....sub 20% downpayments were eliminated from the market, the "actual" values would, by market forces, decrease to the point where buyers would be able to make the 20% down payment.
<
(always check the preview, too)
Point to your throat if you need Heimliched.
But...but... if we don't let borrowers pay nothing for their homes, then they'll be sad. And sad people don't vote for US!!!
You can put 30% down on your house and if it's price drops you "lose". The difference is that if you put your life savings of 5% down and the price drops you can become a prisoner in your home, unable to take advantage of employment opportunities that require moving.
its called leveraging...don't do it unless you like living on the edge.
If the government props up housing prices, even fewer people will be able to afford homes with a 20% down payment.
Why this is not the most fucking obvious statement ever continues to baffle me.
The reason working class people in Merkley's district can't afford 20% down is because of years and years of housing policy that Merkley no doubt supported of giving out low or no down payment loans. That policy increased demand for housing, which, as any economics 101 student could tell you, lead to an increase in housing prices.
Your comment is as worthy of serious study as the phlogiston theory of fire.
Our understanding of economics is far superior to such quaint notions, and you're just too stupid to comprehend it.
Doesn't this presume a static supply?
In some places, housing supply is pretty much static because of land use restrictions. Even absent those, supply in a particular area is fairly static since when that neighborhood builds out, supply cannot increase. If you do not desire to move farther out, then that area has a finite supply, and increasing demand will increase the price.
Yes, land use restrictions decrease supply or make it static.
However, even you you don't desire to move farther out, other people probably don't mind, which lessens demand closer in to some extent. When the next neighborhood out adds only a couple of minutes to your commute (I'm in Texas, things may get built out differently elsewhere) supply isn't much of an issue, at least if you don't mind waiting for the house to be built.
what they fail to point out is the trap people fall for:
a downpayment for a modest $200,000 home vs a downpayment for a $400,000 home
people seem to choose the latter if banks permit them.
bank only lets them do the latter if someone sits behind them, saying "go ahead, if they default I got your back"
Not to mention, all of these state-supported shennanigans duped developers into building Giant McMansions instead of a more diversified product protfolio (more 1-3 bedroom houses with no garage and less 3-18000 room houses with a spaceport). Now there are empty McMansions everywhere because they were (1) not actually affordable by so many people, (2) are even less affordable now because most incomes have dropped but the housing prices are the same or more (Thinking the Washington D.C. tri-state area). However, in Michigan, the demand is so low that the same McMansions can be purchased for fire-sale prices. It's the market in action up there. But it's too bad certain interests helped destroy the market for jobs in the first place, giving rise to non-existent demand for houses nobody really needed in the first place.
Maybe people can't afford 20% down on a house because the house is
currently over-priced?
That. Or it is too big. Maybe they should be shopping in a lower priced neighborhood.
You mean that I shouldn't live in my 5000 ft^2 McMansion then when a 2000 ft^2 should be MORE than enough room for my 1 child family? But how else can I keep up with the Jonses?
Bingo! Low down payments simply prop up the over-valuation of the property.
banks overconfidence in the situation they're in props up the over-valuation of the property.
This.
Problem is the congress wants every increasing housing valuations, AND more "affordable" housing.
So the only solution is looser loan terms.
Down payments make a difference if you are forced to sell in unfavorable circumstances - say, you lose your job.
If you can afford to keep up the payments, then the down payment is irrelevant as long as you intend the property to be your home.
If you view a house primarily as an investment vehicle, put the down payment into a safer investment and pay rent.
I have yet to hear how everything would be so hunky dory if everyone had huge down payments. It would just tie up more wealth into unproductive real estate.
real estate would be worth less if down payments had to be larger, which would actually tie up less wealth because banks contribute a majority of the equity in real estate now.
I have yet to hear how everything would be so hunky dory if everyone had huge down payments.
Right now banks can offer low down payment loans because the government subsidizes them. is the risk is removed from the banks so banks take more risks...hell why not they won't get hurt.
The result is that poeple who are unproven as safe risks are given loans.
At least i think that its the reasoning.
Big down payments would weed out the risky and encourage the safe....poeple able to save up 20% down payments are assumed to be more reliable and more safe.
But yeah the size is essentially arbitrary. Maybe as a species a 13.586% down payment is the optimal down payment...maybe 78.009% is...who knows.
Isn't this just bubble theory? Looser credit in the form of lower risk for both banks and borrowers drove up the price of real-estate far beyond what a higher risk market would bear. Yes, you would tie up a higher percentage of your real-estate capital in payment, but it might be a the same number if you only paid $75k 2006 for a house that was valued at $56k 1994 instead of $150k. (note the valuation numbers are real examples of Tallahasse, FL. Housing prices for existing homes trebled in the entry level standalone market in 12 years. For no fucking reason.) one could put down 20% in the first case for the price of 10% in the second.
If you view a house primarily as an investment vehicle,
You shouldn't go outside without a helmet, and shouldn't cross the street without someone holding your hand.
Bullshit RC. You don't live in the real world that most people live in. If you are an average person making say 50K a year, your house is the only investment vehicle available. You don't have enough economic security to gamble on the stock market. You don't have enough money to be eligible for any kind of tax shelter other than the home mortgage interest deduction. If you just save your money in a super safe CD or something, you will make almost no return when you factor in taxes and inflation.
They have built the whole fucking system to make houses the only investment vehicle available to average Americans. You are the one who shouldn't be allowed outside without supervision because you clearly live in a fucking bubble where everyone has complete job security, never has any bad luck or makes a mistake and makes 150K plus every year.
I don't know John, real estate is risky and you might be better off just renting and earning that shitty piddly interest/div. yield as opposed to losing both your investment dollars and your home.
you're investing in land, not the house. its an important difference and one that people forget.
True. And land prices tanked even harder than housing prices.
80% in some areas, while structure prices were flat or still going up.
Interestingly, in the coastal areas that seem to be hit hardest by the bubble bursting, land only dropped 40-50%. But land was a larger part of the total housing cost mix.
Fun example: Minneapolis/St Paul
2005Q1:
Avg House price: 303k
Structure: 167k
Land: 136k (the land price peak in MSP)
2009Q2:
Avg House price: 198k
Structure: 188k
Land: 10k (bottom)
Land dropped 93% while total housing prices dropped 35%. As the avg structure went up, the drop was entirely due to land prices caving.
That should just demonstrate that the average housing stock was newer or the land value is off.
Structural prices have increased pretty consistently across the entirety of the database (1975+). But yeah, structure keeps going up because of new housing stock, primarily.
I read the methodology, and it seemed reasonable.
The structural increase is probably directly proportional to the avg sq footage increase.
Homes are hard costs while the value of divided buildable lots are more susceptible to supply and demand.
One thing that is interesting is that if growth management land use planning did give real value one would expect land values to be more stable.
look at nevada, with the worst housing bubble bust of all. Las Vegasans manage to convince themselves they lived in a happening town with lots of growth from an ever decadent public. Then they woke the next morning and realized they lived in the middle of the fucking desert.
Las Vegas isnt in the city database, but the state one does have Nevada.
1999Q1:
Total: $167,632
Structure: $150,826
Land: $16,806
2006Q2 (land peak):
Total: $414,626
Structure: $218,359
Land: $196,268
2010Q3 (end of database, bottom not hit yet):
Total: $202,580
Structure: $192,451
Land: $10,129
Land is at its 1993 value.
This is even more interesting. Nevada does not have land use planning but it does have constraints on land supply as the Federal government owns all the land and only sells limited amounts at a time.
St Paul land supply on the other hand is constrained by land use planning.
So in other words land use planning vs an arbitrary supply constraint behave exactly the same.
Land use planning adds absolutely no value and is simply a way to constrain supply.
robc this is really cool data.
Can you please please please provide a link?
http://www.lincolninst.edu/subcenters/land-values/
For comparisons sake, the same data for KY:
1999Q1:
Total: $100,704
Structure: $95,669
Land: $5,035
2006Q2:
Total: $149,526
Structure: $137,571
Land: $11,955
2010Q3:
Total: $160,215
Structure: $148,141
Land: $12,074
KY actually peaked in land in 2003 at $18k and bottomed in 2008 at $7800.
Bubble? What bubble?
Now if I could sell my fucking house in Lexington, all would be right in my world!
As someone who makes about that number, you dont know what the fuck you are talking about.
Stock Market. check.
Tax shelters? Well, retirement funds that I max out are a kind of tax shelter, so check.
My house in NOT an investment. Its the place I want to live. If my condo I owned for 9 years was an investment, it was a pretty crappy one - although I think it beat CDs.
I had stock investments while I was still a renter, in fact SUNW got converted to a 20% downpayment in 1998.
My house in NOT an investment. Its the place I want to live. If my condo I owned for 9 years was an investment, it was a pretty crappy one - although I think it beat CDs.
Plus in just about any point in US history aside from 2007 to 2011 it probably beat inflation.
Investment is not the right word...still it can be used to retain wealth that you would have otherwise lost.
I think I am liking the word "Hedge".
"in fact SUNW got converted to a 20% downpayment in 1998."<?i>
Damn. That's a winner. My SUNW got converted to jackshit in 2000.
Fuck you, squirrels.
This all could have been avoided if the italics tag was closed properly, right?
I have no economic security, and I gamble on the stock market anyway.
Generally I stick to fairly safe bets, though. It's better than leaving your money in a checking account.
I disagree, John. Your house (that is, your residence) is just as much of an investment vehicle as your car. Both are assets that you use, that have operating expenses, that produce no income, that you can't sell without replacing, etc. That isn't the description of a valid investment in my book.
Not only that, but real estate is famously illiquid, and over long time periods doesn't even appreciate all that much, historically.
You are right about this:
They have built the whole fucking system to make houses the only investment vehicle available to average Americans.
Although I would put scare quotes around "investment vehicle." But combine your insight with my opinion, and you have even more reason for outrage.
I agree with you that housing is a stupid place to put money. But you can't blame people for doing it when the government rewards them for it.
What is one of your laws "if you reward a behaviro, you will get more of it"? People are not stupid. They are just responding rationally to the system we have created.
I think a good chunk of the problem is that, while housing is indeed an "investment," too many people viewed it as the wrong kind of investment. The way I see it, there are two basic types of investments: those you hope will MAKE you money, and those you hope will SAVE you money.
Stocks, bonds, investing in a business ... those are investments that, with luck, will generate actual income for you. But houses, in general, can only save you money (if you're lucky): no matter what happens, you must pay money each month in exchange for a place to live, and the idea behind buying a house was that in time, when the mortgage was paid off (or inflation made your real-dollar mortgage payment a trifle), you could live there for less money than what it costs to rent a similar place.
I think of it like this: a few years ago, when we bought our first washer/dryer combo, we bought it solely for convenience: damn the costs, doing laundry in your own home is much easier than hauling everything to the laundromat.
But now we've had those machines a few years, and when you look at the cost to wash and dry a single load of laundry at the laundromat, versus what we paid for the machines and what it costs us to run them (including a repair bill a few months back), it turns out buying those machines was also a very good investment -- over the years, we've saved literally hundreds of dollars in laundry costs.
So if you're stuck doing laundry at a coin-op laundromat, but you have washer/dryer hookups in your house, I'll say in all honesty "Buying an inexpensive washer and dryer would be a good investment for you." But it's an investment that will save you money, by reducing your total clothes-washing costs over the years; it is NOT an investment that will make you money. And if you say "I need not save for retirement; I'll just sell my washing machine and get rich off the profit, because a washing machine is a good investment" you're an idiot, same way you're an idiot if you believed "I don't need to work or save to improve my financial position; I'll just sell my house and get rich off the profit, because housing is a good investment." Don't confuse cost-cutting investments with income-generating investments.
Jennifer comes in with her hit and run common sense. Bravo!
Good point, Jennifer. Valid use of the word investment, there.
And yes, John, unfortunately Our Masters have so thoroughly fucked up the capital markets that sinking money into housing was one of the least bad things you could do with it. They reward that expenditure, and punish investment in productive assets.
You get more of what you reward, and less of what you punish.
I don't know if investment is the right word.
It is more of a hedge to renting.
Essentially everyone needs a roof over their head. Well you can either rent which means that money is simply a cost. Buying a home on the other hand means that your rent does not disappear into the ether every month.
If you own your home you get the utility of a roof over your head and at some point in the future you will be able get some (probably most) of your rent back.
Home ownership can also act as a hedge against inflation.
You get to play a cashflow game, too. If you expect you are making more now than you will be in the future, buy a house you want to live in, pay on it for 15-30 years, and then as your revenue dries up, you'll have a house that you only pay taxes, insurance, and maintenance on. In my case it'll be 15 more years and my payments will drop from $1200/month to, well right now its about $200/month in taxes and insurance. That $1000/month can go into retirement savings or a midlife crisis mobile or hookers and blow and I'll still have the same standard of living.
If your future lifestyle would include hookers and blow without giving up other spending or going into debt, your lifestyle has improved, not stayed the same.
I'm looking forward to not having to pay more than taxes, insurance, and maintenance because that's that much less in retirement cash flow I'll need, which means I can get there sooner.
Change "house" to primary (or even secondary) residence. There are plenty of good reasons to invest in real estate and rental property.
The value of housing, per square foot, hasn't risen since 1960. A house is not an investment, flat out.
see my point above..
Even in cases where it is not an appreciating asset, the idea is that you build wealth by gradually paying down principal. Granted, you could more cheaply save money (not having to pay interest). But assuming the cost of renting a space of similar utility is the same as the monthly mortgage payment, you are at least building equity with the mortgage. 30 years down the line on a mortgage (in theory), you have a house worth $xxx,000 and no liability. No such luck if you were renting a comparable place over the same period. Hence, it is an investment, or at least, a savings vehicle.
One thing I always try to remember that there's no such thing as a free lunch, and buying a home with borrowed money as an investment just seems like too much of a free lunch.
In light of that, I'm suspicious that it's even much of a savings vehicle. The rule of thumb is simple; in order to save you have to consume something less than your income. You have to sacrifice in some way.
Aren't rents generally a bit lower than the mortgage? What if you rented, and took that difference and invested in something with a return higher than the interest rate? Would you come out with more net worth than somebody who merely bought a house?
I have to think you would. Otherwise, why don't banks just buy the houses themselves and rent them out?
To come out ahead as a land-lord I only need you to pay the interest, taxes, insurance, and maintenance. Any principle you pay on my house is a gain for me. Thus, I can afford to charge less than a bank would.
Even in cases where it is not an appreciating asset, the idea is that you build wealth by gradually paying down principal. Granted, you could more cheaply save money (not having to pay interest). But assuming the cost of renting a space of similar utility is the same as the monthly mortgage payment, you are at least building equity with the mortgage. 30 years down the line on a mortgage (in theory), you have a house worth $xxx,000 and no liability. No such luck if you were renting a comparable place over the same period. Hence, it is an investment, or at least, a savings vehicle.
You are living in the house you wanted. You saw a piece of property; you negotiated on a price; you now have the property and are paying that price.
That is how I look at it.
Unfortunately, many people got sucked into the "prices only go up" bubble, and bought with the explicit expectation of substantial profit.
Let's say you bought a $750k house with five percent down and a monster balloon payment ten years out. If the price goes up, and you sell it for $900k three years down the road, you're a Financial Wizard; if the price goes down and you're stuck in it, looking at that balloon payment coming down the tracks like the Super Chief at full steam ahead, you're fucked.
The Best thing would be if there were NO MORTGAGES. That is, you MUST buy the house in CASH. The ONLY reason the house costs $400k is because of the Mortgage.
I can hear the screams of the builders now. I think its perfectly reasonable for a bank to loan out money to people that want to buy and build houses. Its just been perverted by the government stepping in and guaranteeing these risks from failure by burdening the entire nation of taxpayers with the risks of these leveraging practices.
Why Can't a builder build a house using his own money?
You can blame the government all you want.
The government went along with the entire mortgage gag...and to keep banks going, they guaranteed loans.
You also feel this way about cars, refrigerators, and medical procdures, right?
absolutely!
Loans are the problem.
So, I was watching an old Abbott and Costello movie today, and they bought a house for $735 dollars. Imagine!
It seems to me there are two things going on here...one is that homes are, as others have pointed out, obscenely overpriced. The other is simply the devaluing of the dollar. In earlier times, if a government needed extra money, they would debase the coins. Now, we have a fiat dollar, not tied to anything, and seem surprised when it's value approaches zero.
Wiemar Republic, anyone?
Have people completely forgotten that living frugally and saving your money is an option? Maybe a new car, huge TV, cable, internet and the unlimited cell data plan are not all essential to a decent life. There is no reason why any middle class person should not be able to save $40k in 10 years.
I don't entirely disagree with your point, but it's getting increasingly difficult to go about your daily business without an internet connection. The rest of it, sure, that can be drawn down.
What if people are paying off student loans, though? What if there's a medical emergency? Just saying that saving up $40K in ten years isn't as easy as you imply.
Have people completely forgotten that living frugally and saving your money is an option?
A representative of the Ministry of Plenty will be contacting you, shortly.
Dang, it's too bad that people can't get any use out of a house, or car, then it might make losing some of the value not feel so bad.
I mean, what is wrong with the system? You buy a house as an investment then you spend five years living in motels, only to find out the house is worth less, if only you could find somewhere to live while your house gained value...
Cars too, you pay for a piece of machinery over 5 or 10 years and find out that after years of use the machine isn't worth what you still owe on it. Maybe you could buy the car with loans, leave it at the dealership, and rent a car to get around in. A 10 year old car with 0 miles on it would have to be worth something.
Coffee makers, coffee makers, coffee makers!!
My story(cue the violins):
I bought a coffee maker in 2005, when the coffee maker market was roaring for well over $100. After using it for 4 years I decided to sell. How much was my best offer, you ask. Five fucking dollars, jokes. Personally I blame the Koch brothers.
Unless the Senator means "upper middle" when he said "working", I'd say the primary problem is that $200,000 is too much to spend on a house. A household income of $35,000 a year is at the bottom of the middle quntile - for a family making that and with no other debt obligations than a modest $250 a month car payment, Ginnie Mae's affordability estimator recommends a house priced at no more than than $110-120k. Using the 2.5x gross income rule of thumb, if you want a $200k house, your household income should be around $80k a year.
Ginnie Mae's affordability estimator recommends a house priced at no more than than $110-120k.
Now if only growth management land use and green building regulations did not constrain the market and put so many costs in dividing land building homes this problem could be fixed in a second.
In most cases when you pay 200k for a home you are really buying a 120k home and paying 80K for the damage caused by your planning department.
He said that buying a $200K home with $5K was essentially gambling.
I hate when people say this. First off Gambling takes all your money. you put down 10$ and lose you do not get $9 back...you lose the whole thing. Second the value of your house in a few years can be predicted rationally. It is not easy and you can be wrong but it can be done. It has nothing to do with luck and therefor has nothing to do with games of chance.
PBrooks has this right. There is a difference between expectation of making a profit (especially short term) in a home and a home as a place to live. I don't know about you, but I insure my house for REPLACEMENT VALUE. That is what the insurance company determines it would cost to rebuild it! That is the value of my home. The selling price might reflect a profit margin above the value. I don't know any builder who would offer to sell houses for less than it costs to produce them. If you know of one let me know. I have at least 5% to put down.
When I was in 8th grade, they made us do problems involving compound interest just to drive home the point that "borrowing money is BAD, m'kay?"
I can only presume America's math skills have fallen so low this is no longer possible.
Its bad like drugs are bad. In moderation and used carefully, they're beneficial. Used frequently with no concern for dosage or effects, they can devestate you.
I'd like to see a drug warriors head explode with that comparison.
Funny, they taught us the same thing to make the point that saving money is good.
The question that Kling doesn't want to confront is this: Why should middle class people own their homes?
Capitalism works by extracting resources from people who haven't shown they can manage it, and giving control over them to people that have, through a process similar to natural selection.
If banks need 20% down in order to assure a solid return, and middle class people can't provide that, it means its not in society's interest for middle class people to own their homes. They would destroy the capital. Instead, they should simply rent and let somebody else make the decisions.
Liberals will, of course, scream about the "wealth" distribution. But so what?
When it comes to quality of life for society at large, it doesn't matter who owns something, ownership is just a piece of paper. What matters is whether production is accurately being directing toward providing things the that people want to consume.
If that means that a small number of people control all the property and rent it to the rest of the population, so be it. Clearly, if the rest of the population knew how to properly manage resources, they would be earning enough profit to afford the down payment.
Putting the emphasis on classes, as (the supposed libertarian) Kling is doing here, is just indicative of how much egalitarian Marxist garbage has penetrated our conversation (to our detriment). The middle class is best served when resources are managed correctly, regardless of who owns what, and a "healthy" middle class is one where the quality/quantity of the products they consume is increasing, not one that "owns" a bunch of houses.
Capitalism works by extracting resources from people who haven't shown they can manage it,
No, capitalism works by rewarding companies that can create value, that is, delivering goods and services that are worth more to the people who purchase them than they cost to produce.
"Creating value" what I meant when I said "manage it". You're emphasizing the reward, but the loss of capital is the punishment that comes when you destroy or consume things of value.
I can only assume that you guys are not middle-class.
Absolutely I am. And during the housing bubble all of my friends never let an opportunity pass to tell me how stupid I was for renting, how I was "throwing my money away."
But I was suspicious, and I waited (or maybe I just liked the fact that my rent was half their mortgage, it doesn't matter). Then came the crash, and I swooped up a nice little 1800 sq.ft. rancher for $150,000 that might have gone for $225,000 6 months before.
They're still paying huge mortgages for the same size house, and I get more disposable income for being prudent.
My point is that it doesn't matter the scale you're working on, the same rules still apply.
Renting was definitely the way to go. You are MUCH BETTER OFF just keeping your money (down payment, closing costs, repairs of purchased home, etc). I don't know why people say 'you are throwing your money out.'
However, from 1971 to 2006, you could not loose buying a home. So, many young people felt that it would always go up.
There's always winners and losers. I know libertarians don't like the 'zero-sum game thing'. But, as in your case, it does apply.
Given the quality of homes the losers can afford now vs. 1950, I'd say everyone came out a winner, but since we compare only at one point in time, some appear to be losers. That's a fault of society, we look back nostalgically to times we never had so good.
If by middle-class, you mean working for a living, then yes, I am.
For now. The day I don't owe on my house is the day I retire, BTW. Looks like 4-5 years.
RCDean says:
Selling products for higher than production costs is profit, not "creating value."
Value results from the expression of a ratio of importance between two commodities. When one of those two commodities is money, we give value another name -- PRICE.
Capitalism means living by using intermediary goods (capital) to earn income. That's all it means.
Capitalism works when someone is clever enough to design and sell something that appeals to enough others such that amount gained in the sale exceeds the cost of production.
The source of profit is demand and demand is the expression of want.
Demand is the cause and source of worth and thus profit, if sales exceed production. Value arises only in exchange and things become wealth because of their exchangeability.
Selling products for higher than production costs is profit, not "creating value."
Sure, but developing/making/acquiring those products for less than you can sell them for, and delivering them to people who will value them more than your cost, is the creation of value.
Value results from the expression of a ratio of importance between two commodities.
Right. In the seller's hands, the product has a value of X. In the buyer's hands, it has a value of Y. When the product is transferred to the buyer, value is created.
The amount of value created is measured partially by the profit. Profit understates value created, because the value in the buyer's hands exceeds what they paid for it, or they wouldn't have bought it.
I thought Kling was saying exactly what you're saying: that the middle class ISN'T entitled to government programs to make housing "affordable."
But I don't think that it really contradicts the other point in this thread, that these affordability programs are only an attempt to undo the strain put on the middle class by taxation, debt, etc. But the buck has to stop somewhere. Continuing to offer subsidies to try to correct previous mistakes only continues to throw things out of balance.
And yes, I realize I could have put scare quotes around pretty much every word above.
Well, he does speak negatively of the "financial health" of a middle class that can't afford a down payment. As if this is a problem that needs to be solved.
I'm not sure it is. Here's the thing: saving for a down payment is hard. It sucks, you'd rather spend all your money. So maybe the middle class has simply made the decision not to do it. Maybe life is good enough for people that they don't feel it's worth it to lower their standard-of-living in the present just so they can own rather than rent.
Now, that might warrant a negative comment about the health of the presiding cultural values, but I don't see why it's says anything about financial health.
The only thing that would make the situation "unhealthy", at least in the aggregate, is if prices are out of equilibrium (which I think they are currently). But higher down payments should solve that, even if it means less people own their homes.
"Where are all the affluent, financially prudent home buyers, who can afford a 20 percent down payment"
---Here in Chattanooga there are homes for $50,000, $100,000, $200,000. If you can't save $10k, $20k, or $50k, you have no business buying a home.
In fact, there's nothing wrong with renting. When you rent you don't have to worry about making repairs, property taxes, HOA's, insurance, and all that bullshit.
http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/
Down payments are irrelevant.
What counts is income (earnings through time)against the debt rate on a loan.
Someone could "put down" $50,000 on a $100,000 house and borrow $50,000 from a bank.
That's at huge "down payment", a whopping 50%!
Yet, if his or her income disappears the next day and she or he can't make debt payments to the banker who holds the mortgage against that someone, the problem of failing to service debt remains.
I thought the argument was that if people have to make a more substantial downpayment then they are more likely to make a rational assessment of the stability of their income. I remember seeing a news story of a woman who walked away from a rental home (a 2nd property) valued at ~$500k pre-bust because she had bought it for zero down and is protected legally because of foreclosure laws. There was a double set of incentives to make her actions rational.
There is no 'people are more likely to make a rational assessment of the stability of their income'.
You never know.
The 20% was the traditional number to make sure that people alway had positive equity in their home, keeping the banks from be exposed to the market risk. What changed was that banks were able to hedge their risk in so many other ways (MBS, Fannie & Freddie) that they began to think of themselves as completely insured from market downturns. When this changed, then we needed TARP.
+1
Quite correct to also mention MBS. Freddie and Fannie were certainly a large part of it, but people forget that they're invested in about half the US housing market. People often don't ask who investes in the other half. The MBS allowed banks to completely offload responsibility.
"The 5 percent default rate is only the tip of the iceberg of the devastation those loans have called."
I think he meant "caused." But the loans "caused" nothing. The devastation was "caused" by people who made bad and uninformed decisions, not the loans.
The goverment should think on helping this people at least one per family to get a good job where they will be earning good money to help them support their families.
Your post is really good providing good information. Food for fertility I liked it and enjoyed reading it.Keep sharing such important posts.Natural laxative foods