Video Gamers Take on a Cable News Critic
I've previously written about the peculiar merit system that governs cable news punditry. Shamelessness and pithy soundbite delivery are highly valued. Truthfulness and accuracy, not so much.
So it's nice to see a crappy pundit get some comeuppance. Over at Forbes, Kashmir Hill writes about psychiatrist Carole Lieberman, who has been "Amazon bombed" by video gamers incensed about Lieberman's comments to Fox News linking video games to violence and sexual assault.
Psychiatrist Carole Lieberman has written three books, but were you to check them out on Amazon, you might be discouraged from buying one. They all have a host of negative reviews and sorry ratings of a star and a half (out of five).
If you were to look closely, you might note that the majority of the reviews for the books (written in 1998, 2006, and 2010, respectively) all started pouring in on February 8, 2011. One reviewer calls "Coping with Terrorism" (2006) an "an offensive piece of garbage." Another calls "Bad Boys" (1998) "the worst book I've ever read." Another reader claims "Bad Girls" (2010) is "the worst piece of crap in the history of mankind!"…
The hundreds of reviews that flooded Lieberman's Amazon pages last month came as a result of a controversial statement she made to Fox News about video games desensitizing players to violence and causing rape. The statement inflamed video gamers, and they soon set their violent sights on her books. The nasty reviews are part of a new tactic in the war of ideas on the Internet: "Amazon-bombing."
Hill is fairly sympathetic to Lieberman, whose expertise in media violence includes authoring the books Bad Boys: Why We Love Them, How to Live with Them, and When to Leave Them and Bad Girls: Why Men Love Them & How Good Girls Can Learn Their Secrets. I'm not sure she deserves it.
Here's what Lieberman told Fox News:
Carole Lieberman, a psychiatrist and book author, told FoxNews.com that sexual situations and acts in video games -- highlighted so well in Bulletstorm -- have led to real-world sexual violence.
"The increase in rapes can be attributed in large part to the playing out of [sexual] scenes in video games," she said.
See a fun bit of digging into the anatomy of the Fox story here.
It's unclear what Lieberman means by "increase in rapes." According to both victim surveys and reported cases, rape has been in dramatic decline since the early 1990s. It's now at its lowest level since the government started tracking the statistic. This would be same period over which video games started to become more violent, more realistic, and more sexually suggestive.
In a subsequent interview with Wired, Lieberman explained her comment:
When shown these figures, Lieberman said the "statistics do not reflect all the rapes, since many go unreported and others relate to child abductions." When asked for statistics showing an increase of rape in recent years, Lieberman said she did not have time to pull them up.
That's because they don't exist. If anything, the stigma associated with rape has decreased in recent years. I'm sure there still are rape victims who are too afraid or embarrassed to report the crime, but there's no reason at all to think they would be less likely to file a report today than, say, 30 years ago. And it's flat absurd to argue not only that the rape stigma has increased in recent years, but that it has increased enough to compensate for a 60 percent drop in reported rapes since 1993. It's a far safer bet that Lieberman simply has no idea what the hell she's talking about.
It gets better. More from Wired:
"Obviously I know what I'm talking about or I wouldn't be called upon to testify in front of Congress," [Lieberman] said.
Persuasive! And John "Bo Duke" Schneider is an authority on constitutional law.
More:
"I've been doing this research for over 20 years….It's all about violence, it all applies to rape. And it has been done on videogames less violent or less sexual than the current one that we're talking about."
On Friday, several days after our initial phone interview, Wired.com asked Lieberman once again if she had found time to dig up a specific study linking videogames to rape. She once again referenced the "Violent Video Game Effects" study and failed to name specific games with sexual content that might encourage rape.
"Over the years, I have read hundreds of studies linking videogames to violence. Rape, as a violent act, is implied in them," she wrote in an e-mail. "When videogames are violent and sexual, it causes the players to become desensitized to rape and think it is a 'game.'"
The study referenced above found that some children tend to play more aggressively after playing violent games, but it did not find (or try to find) any link between video games and rape or violence. Wired then spoke to some folks who do actually study media violence, and none could come up with a single study linking video games to rape or violence. Back to you, Dr. Lieberman:
"There are thousands of studies," Lieberman said. "I'd have to look through them or recent ones as far as finding one that specifically speaks about rape, and I don't have the time to do that right now."
At this rate, Lieberman may soon get her own TV show.
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I resist the suggestion that there is less rape because we have more graphic, violent games. There's less rape because there's more porn and, therefore, more masturbation.
Q.E.D
What about a video game porno?
Just about there now, seems to me.
Tracy Jordan made one in a single day.
jlist.com
Let's not open up that Pandora's box, shall we?
Some of those games are rather nice and a few could even be made in TV movies for LifeTime or The Oxygen Channel but others...man, I hope nobody in Congress ever logs on to J-List or RightStuf because it would get reeeeaaalll fuckin' ugly if they ever laid eyes on some of the more darker Dating Sims that have been translated into English and sold Stateside!
Virgin Roster. Possession. Those two games ALONE could start a Congressional shit storm that would have made Senator McCarthy scared!
+5... fingers
Because nothing -- NOTHING -- is more likely to result in rapes than a teenaged boy who can't get it up because he just got done fapping multiple times to a sexualized video game.
/sarcasm
They check everyone who enters the Capital to make sure they know what they're talking about, don't they?
Yeppers. Meryl Streep's work in the field of carcinogenic substances is widely recognized.
Streep was taken out of context. She was describing her next film role, and the whole testimony just got out of hand.
And besides, why are you hating on people who pretend to be other people on TV? They can be experts too!
"I'm not a doctor, I just play one on TV" but I'll still go to Capital Hill and testify about what I read in a script once!
http://www.dailymotion.com/vid.....shortfilms
Fuckin' video games, how do they work?
What a bitch...
"Over the years, I have read hundreds of studies
No you fucking haven't.
You know why?
Because there aren't that many (credible) studies about video games much less about the link between games and violence...
I guess that assertion depends on your definition of studies. Because that's the only out I see from saying something so fucking stupid.
She said it because she's used to using statements like that as a bludgeon. "I have a PhD, and I've read studies. How dare you question me, you little pissant?"
I know why she does it. I've run into similar stupid comments. This one is absurd since I'd bet she can't find 100 original studies on the subject of video games and violence.
I've been following this off and on, and there are [maybe] 100 studies out there.
Of those, only one credibly links violence to video games -- and it had at least as much to do with [how] the games were played, as much as the games themselves: the subjects were playing a violent single-player first-person shooter alone, with no real contact with other humans while they were playing it. (Sadly, I don't have a link at hand.)
Other studies haven't replicated that isolation, but haven't credibly established a link, either -- which makes me think that it's the isolation that's the important condition. (And that playing a violent game with other players online is sufficient to remove that condition.)
If there's really a link at all.
I've probably logged thousands of hours on my consoles and PC games. Maybe I just need a few hundred more to start my rape fest?
I don't know why she doesn't claim the rapes occur because carpal tunnel keeps players from masturbating and their hideous couch potato forms prevent normal sexual relationships.
rape festquest
Obviously I know what I'm talking about or I wouldn't be called upon to testify in front of Congress," [Lieberman] said.
Confident that no one could be that stupid, and Reason just made that line up to increase web traffic, I clicked on the wired link to see if she actually said that. Turns out....she did.
Yeah, considering the calibre of people in Congress, I do not see how that is something to claim or in which to be proud.
Considering the calibre of CongressLizards; shame on them for believing her testimony.
God Of War gave me an uncontrollable urge to bump vases until they shatter.
I got that from Zelda. On the positive side, I also mow my victim's lawns.
And you have hundreds of empty bottles you have collected on your travels.
Empty? What am I, some sort of fool? I have hundreds of mystical beings trapped in my bottles so that I may taunt monsters when I am on the edge of death. "If you strike me down now, I will come back more powerful than you can possible imagine!"
I call my penis The Fire AND Ice Wand.
Chlamydia?
The tingling is how you know it's working.
Funny, that's the exact same thing that the manual for my taser says...
Sounds like somebody does not know how to Triforce.
After a "Mass Effect 2" marathon I knocked over a recycling center a stole all of their bottlecaps.
Funny, I often find myself remotely scanning planets for their extractable minerals after a good Fallout marathon..
After playing Grand Theft Auto IV, I want to run people over and rape them, and steal their money.
Oops. Not rape-rape...
I saw what you did their Commander.
Where'd that hot English broad in the latex suit run off to?
Mortal Kombat makes me do this when I rape and pillage...
http://mydrunktexts.com/view/received-texts/32874
I loot the dead. Like, all the time.
Loot the dead? Hell, when I was playing Baldur's Gate II, I went grave-robbing.
As in "Jump on my sword, Evil!" Baldur's Gate II?
I don't remember that phrase. Was that "Minsc"? That NPC annoyed me, so I usually didn't have him in the party.
Hah, yes it was Minsc. Since I usually played squishy characters or rogues, I needed him for my escape from that first prison.
Oh ya... I teabag the dead.
I made my own rape suit modeled after Sackboy from Little Big Planet.
I'll tell you where the Nightbreed are, just don't hurt me.
You're first into the Popit.
Penn Jillette made a really good point in one of his "Penn Says" about this; namely that any normal person could play these games for every waking hour every single day and still not feel the urge to rape because normal people know rape is wrong. I'd like to see someone advance this position to this lady and see what she says...
He now does Penn Point. I love his insights, even if he discounts himself all the time.
Balko could of at least offered a trigger warning in the first graf.
The Sims 3 makes me want to be a hot, slutty, big-titted tomb raider and relic collector.
Odd, I get the same reaction from biting into a York peppermint patty.
So, you're saying that The Sims 3 sucks so bad you want to be a hot, buxom, gun-wielding, female Indiana Jones?
Which video games glorify rape or even have the player charater engage in such? Please, I'd love to know, because I have yet to find one! Well, I guess you can point to games like rapelay, but those are not mainstream, and are hard to get anyway.
Civ 3
Super Mario World lets you rape dinosaurs and make them eat their own eggs. Fucking sickos.
Mama Mia! Your hatred of Italian-American plummers is now confirmed! Come on-a Luigi! We're outta here!
Thank you for that, Hugh. I literally laughed out loud.
I can think of a couple of examples of sex in a game (including prostitution), but no examples of the protagonist raping. Probably an extrapolation for the most part.
Same here. GTA has prostitution in most of its 3D games, but I can't think of any that promote rape. In fact, I doubt the Big 3 would allow such a game on their consoles.
I think Silent Hill has a rape scene. Of course it involves a monster named Pyramidhead and it is raping a monster with two sets of legs.
Admit it. You're thinking about going out a raping a mannequin right now, aren't you?
Does anybody know where I can get an xbox 360 controller with a dedicated "rape" button?
Plants vs. Zombies
Wait, Bulletstorm is out? When the hell did that happen?
Last Tuesday. AND IT IS AWESOME!
Interestingly, according to the amazon.com stats below the Bad Girls book, 30% of viewers ultimately bought Bulletstorm. EA must be very pleased...
There was one sequence that I'm not going to spoil, but I was literally howling with evil laughter through the whole thing. My wife came in and checked on me to make sure I hadn't finally cracked.
And? What did she conclude?
Madness takes it's toll.
I'm on Chapter 4, I'm not sure I've gotten there yet.
Game is a hell of a lot of fun.
Ska... the, uh, remote control part.
OK yeah, that whole section kicked all sorts of ass.
(emphasis added) Bullshit extrapolation, how the fuck do it work?
However, I will say that playing Galactic Civilizations II has made me more likely to kill Drengin than I was prior to playing it...
Sim City forced me to rape a skyscraper.
Bullshit, SF. If you'd done that, you would have written about it in detail on your blog.
The skyscraper was very famous and paid me to keep it quiet. No, I'm not going to tell you which slutty 'scraper got The Full SugarFree Experience.
I will tell you, though... I shit in the lobby on the way out.
The world needs more romantics such as you.
Everyday is like Super Valentine's Day with me, baby.
Quoting your ex-cellmate/husband?
Sim City forced me to rape a skyscraper.
Oh, bullshit. Admit it, the skyscraper raped YOU.
BP, we all know that playing rough basketball is a clear sign of being a rapist.
Oh crap, I fouled out of every single jr high game I played in!
That would be more worrying if you hadn't played during a time when they still called traveling...
One game my father was reffing and he ejected me for a flagrant foul. First time I ever heard of it.
Kill Drengin? I have them eating out of my hand. They offer me tributes.
Me, too. I just like their planets better than their bribes.
STEVE SMITH PLAY GAMES, STEVE SMITH RA...oh, fuck it.
Oops, turns out I have gone sorta Old Mexican on this post...
Ever notice how everything is always way worse than 20 years ago, even when the statistics clearing show an incredible improvement over that time period? Just like the war on cops, average income etc.
Anyone happen to be a constituent of whatever congresscritter heads that committee? Perhaps we can fix this problem of Lieberman being called in front of Congress so she can't use this appeal to authority.
She doesn't need facts. She has righteousness on her side.
I would guess she knows there are no stats for her argument and just doesn't care.
Sometimes, in the still of the night, I swear it can still hear him imploring me to rape...
wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka, wakka...
Woowoowoowoowoo*
The ghost was not unresponsive.
You just made me think of Shakira raping Fozzy Bear. Thanks for that.
He had it coming, what with that slutty hat.
Enough with the Whitesnake references.
Look, man... I'm just going down the only road I've ever known. Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone. But I've made up my mind. I'm not wastin' no more time.
All I can think of is when Mac played Whitesnake for his Project Badass videos. Brilliant.
Of course video games incite rape. I mean, think about Mario... you hop ON turtles, and pull UP turnips... Could the violent erotic symbolism be more OBVIOUS?!? CLIMBING vines! PICKING flowers! WEARING RACCOON SUITS!
You forget about the obvious raping going on in that game - when Princess Peach is kidnapped by King Koopa. We don't ever see what he's doing to her before we get to that last level
King Koopa, peasant. It's not rape, just year after year of jus primae noctis.
I'll save-a the Princess from Bowser! Wahooo!
You do in later games. She's escaping repeatedly and baking cakes and being wooed by supercomputers.
That's the Paper Mario series
Hence "later games"...
We don't ever see what he's doing to her before we get to that last level
King Koopa is a turtle.
Simple biology dictates that any "rape" that occurred probably was only him jizzing in the toilet after she took a shit.
NOT according to the good folks over at HentaiPalm!
It's a tanuki, actually, but still....
Come to think of it my penchant for rape and furry sex arose around the time of Mario 2!
Seriously if any of this were true, real life Japan would literally look like scenes from a hentai.
you mean it does't? fuck!
She reminds me of Tony.
All I can say is, I'm gald 4 Loco wasn't around when I was playing Civilization. Lord knows what I might have been forced to do.
Drunkenly build Great Wall to try to get an edge over barbarians?
Chun-li wouldn't have kicked that high if she didn't want the old Hadouken.
I've spent hours walking around Vice City in a leather gimp suit armed with a rather large purple double dildo beating the shit out of pedestrians. I have yet to do so in real life.
You too?
My wife found it so amusing to watch, she started doing it too. I swear it's the best part of the entire series.
DILDO FIGHT CO-OP!
You're making me want to fire up San Andreas now.
Yeah, those were in San Andreas, not Vice City.
...or Requiem For a Dream...
ass to ass!
Uncle Hank knows what he likes.
I have yet to do so in real life.
Yet...
If you're gonna go on a rampage, do it in style
If you're gonna go on a rampage, do it in style
He rampaged in the comfort of home probably on a comfy chair or couch with a snack and a drink with his wife cheering him on.
How is that not "in style"?
This isn't the first time this has happened, btw. Gamers lashed out against a woman who made some ridiculous claims about Mass Effect when it came out a few years ago. She had a book on Amazon get review bombed as well.
Of course... that woman's statement was so outlandish that Jack friggen' Thompson called her out...
Castlevania inspired in me a great hatred of bats.
Also, Street Fighter made me realize that big-boobed women with muscular, developed thighs are HOT!!!
Also, Street Fighter made me realize that big-boobed women with muscular, developed thighs are HOT!!!
Yeah but that is not exclusive to video games. Crumb comic books could have evoked the same desire in you.
I know, I've read Crumb (alot). But I didn't read comics until I was in High School.
Raawr
What... I'm uhh, yeah. I was all.. hmm... then I'm thinking, wha?
"Obviously I know what I'm talking about or I wouldn't be called upon to testify in front of Congress," [Lieberman] said.
Au contraire...
It's precisely because you don't know what you're talking about is why you're called to testify in front of Congress. Where do you think we get all these laws with kids' names?
"If anything, the stigma associated with rape has decreased in recent years."
You mean the stigma associated with reporting it, right?
He meant with being a victim of it.
This lady should team up with the people who go, "...how can you ignore the millions of people who've gotten cancer because of GMOs!"
Or how about the science writer who regularly cite the "everyone knows Marijuana causes people to become schizophrenic...." (and subsequently shoot democrat congresspeople, apparently)
I've come across at least a half dozen groups of people who will adamantly assert things to be "unquestioned FACT!!" They get completely exasperated when you're like, "well, OK then, but where's the actual data on that again?..."
"I don't have time to PROVE THINGS to you!!"
Asking to review the actual 'studies' I presume implies some *unreasonable skepticism*... "What, are you like PRO-RAPE now, mr smarty pants?! Check out the "let me see the numbers before I go rape people-guy!"
I preferred this sort of thing when it was called Andrea Dworkin. I seem to recall that she had a pretty expansive definition of, "rape". Like, when Males Talk, they are chauvinistically raping your earhole.
I think Carl Hiassen needs a good Amazon bombing too.
Not a bad idea.
So I went into the PS3 3d social network thing (can't remember the precise name)
Anyway i made a female avatar and made her as fat and as tall as possible.
It took only about 30 sec of sitting a bench in the starting public area before i was inundated with male avatars humping me and dancing on me.
I think Balko is right that virtual representations of rape have no effect in the real world.
But I do suspect that virtual rape does encourage more virtual rape.
Note: An equal number of male avatars were very nice and simply wanted to talk...also a larger number of female avatars wanted to just talk as well.
First person shooters are puny, why kill a few when one can kill millions by launching ones nuclear missiles in the Civilization series games. Anyone who played Alpha Centauri (the greatest game ever made in my opinion) will remember those planet busters that not only destroyed cities but entire continents. The ultimate however must be those stellar converters in Master of Orion 2, what better way of finishing off your enemy in a long drawn out war than vaporising their home planet.
one can kill millions by launching ones nuclear missiles in the Civilization series games.
There are few feelings more satisfying than bathing one's online enemies in the gentle glow of nuclear hellfire.
Note: An equal number of male avatars were very nice and simply wanted to talk...
""Seduction is often difficult to distinguish from rape. In seduction, the rapist often bothers to buy a bottle of wine. ""
Yeah...! TALK MY ASS. They don't want to talk to you! They want to tea-bag your soul!!
"""Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies. Rape is the primary emblem of romantic love.""""
Also, you contributed to your own raping by purposely adapting an avatar which you knew, perceived through the lens of The Inherent Male Raping Machine inside all MenPigs, would instantly inspire a pile-on of VirtuaRape. YOU WERE RAPING YOURSELF, YOU RAPIST
""Seduction is often difficult to distinguish from rape. In seduction, the rapist often bothers to buy a bottle of wine. ""
Good point. The next male avatar that talks to me I will ask to buy a bikini for my fat avatar.
Andrea, I have a bottle of wine and some twinkies here in my van...
http://www.youtube.com/user/F3.....KE9W0O8bX8
Are we even sure that this was an amazon bombing by gamers?
I mean the only evidence is presented in the article is the coincidence of the date....and that coincidence corresponded with a TV appearance. A tv appearance in which it is possible that she mentioned her book or books in the broadcast.
Couldn't it have been simply a moment of critical mass where enough poeple figured out who she was, that she was generally an idiot, and that she had some crappy books on amazon?
Also when a bunch of things happen on the internet with the same date and time stamp it is possible that it is simply a data base error.
"Obviously I know what I'm talking about or I wouldn't be called upon to testify in front of Congress," [Lieberman] said.
Sort of like this "guy"?
Remember back in the good old days when dice rolling nerds were allegedly Satanists-in-training, or when Doom 2 was supposed to turn all of us early FPS-afficionados into psychopathic mass murderers?
Heck, I remember when pinball machines were the devil's tool.
Pool starts with P and sounds like T and that spells trouble."Music Man"
Scare mongering how does it work.
http://artofmanliness.com/2010.....magazines/
Wish I could just paste the picture of the one that says, "New U.S. menace, Teen-agers in black leather jackets."
6th one from the bottom.
Jazz:
The Devil's Music
Actually having played video games for years I can believe that they might cause slight upticks in violent behavior. Where I think the scolds get it wrong is believing the content of the game itself has anything to do with it.
Games which require split second timing and reflexes being played for a few hours can probably temporarily increase adrenaline levels, but that's likely true whether you're playing "Gears of War" or "FIFA 11."
But for this to have any real effect, it would have to come right after playing and that seems to limit how much real difference it makes.
After playing Zork, I would often lure nubile adventurers into the maze of twisty little passages, all alike in the basement of my white house, turn off the brass lantern, and go full slavering grue on them.
>RAPE GRUE
Someone with the know how needs to make a low rez STEVE SMITH game where the player stalks and has his way with various op-ed writers and political types.
It's pretty fucking sad when an independent PC gaming blog (albeit written by professionals, and very good) is the only one doing actual fucking journalism. But I guess that shit is too hard for cable news dispshits.
Google Cache links expire and should not be used. Use the Wayback machine instead.
Thanks