Conspiracy

If Militias Are On Time's Cover, Does That Mean They're Over?

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Aficionados of militia-panic articles will enjoy Time's cover story "The Secret World of Extreme Militias." Here's a typical passage:

This is a rare secondary definition of "secret," in which the word means "you've seen most of this stuff in a hundred other articles over the last year."
Time

A small but growing number of these extremist groups, according to the FBI, ATF and state investigators, are subjects of active criminal investigations. They include militias and other promoters of armed confrontation with government, among them "common-law jurors," who try to make their own arrests and convene their own trials, and "sovereign citizens," who respond with lethal force to routine encounters with the law. In April, for example, Navy veteran Walter Fitzpatrick, acting on behalf of a group called American Grand Jury, barged into a Tennessee courthouse and tried to arrest the real grand-jury foreman on the grounds that he refused to indict Obama for treason.

Over at Cliopatria, Chris Bray comments:

Members of these groups "respond with lethal force to routine encounters with the law," regularly gunning down cops on the street! For example, uh, some guy yelled at a grand jury. 1.) Lethal force, 2.) Routine encounters, 3.) For example (thing that isn't lethal force in routine encounters.) Yes, I see that he also talked about people who "try to make their own arrests." But it's awfully clever to drop in that "who respond with lethal force to routine encounters with the law" along the way, and to follow it with "for example" when you don't have any.

They harvest fruit, bake pies, and engage in mass murder. For example, cherries.

Bray has fun with several other passages in his post, including the priceless sentence "In a reversal of casting, the armed antigovernment movement describes itself as heir to the founders." (Bray's response: "A coalition of armed militias that express a desire to resist government power claims, in a 'reversal,' that it's the heir to the revolutionaries who waged war against British sovereignty for eight years.") Here's one sleight of hand that Bray missed:

Threats against Obama's life brought him Secret Service protection in May 2007, by far the earliest on record for a presidential candidate. At least four alleged assassination plots between June and December—by militiamen in Pennsylvania, white supremacists in Denver, skinheads in Tennessee and an active-duty Marine lance corporal at North Carolina's Camp Lejeune—led to arrests and criminal charges before Obama was even sworn in.

If there were already four conspiracies "before Obama was even sworn in," the number of threats must have become abnormally high once he was in office, right? Well, no. In the spring I had a conversation about that with Malcolm Wiley, a spokesman for the Secret Service. I was trying to confirm the claim, first made by Ronald Kessler in his 2009 book In the President's Secret Service and repeated since then in much of the press, that the Obama era had seen "a 400 percent increase in the number of threats against the president, in comparison with President Bush." Wiley wouldn't give me the actual figures, but he denied that Kessler's number was correct. According to Wiley, there was a period while Obama was still a candidate when he received more threats than the sitting president. "But since he became president that has leveled off," he continued. "The number of threats he has received has been consistent with the number received by Bush, Clinton, Reagan, and others."

Bonus reading: "The Top 10 Most Absurd Time Covers of The Past 40 Years."

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  1. the Obama era had seen “a 400 percent increase in the number of threats against the president, in comparison with President Bush.”

    That’s because he’s black! And we know all those mouthbreathing teabaggers are racist!!!111!

    “The number of threats he has received has been consistent with the number received by Bush, Clinton, Reagan, and others.”

    That’s just because those racists ratbagging teafuckers are too stupid to be good at making threats or else their would be much more because everyone knows there racist and want to kill the President just because he’s black!!!@!@! ZOMG!

    1. You’ve just saved T.F.* Olbermann the trouble of actually having to write his show beforehand. He can just read this every night** and do filler around the edges with sob stories about health care.

      * T.F = That Fuckstain.

      ** Then again, he pretty much DOES do this every night, just in case Ed Schultz forgets to mention it.

  2. Ah, I just had a feeling of deja vu

    I remember seeing the “rise” of the militias during the years of Clinton The Sexed, in such relevant TV measured journals like Geraldo, Sally Jesse Raphael and Today.

    1. I read that first block quote and wondered what year it was. Did they just copy a story from the 90’s and change a few names?

      1. If I was living in a compound in Texas, I would be nervous right about now.

        1. Are you refering Bush’s ranch?

          1. to Bush’s ranch.

      2. If it works, they’ll follow it up with a cover story on cyberporn.

        1. The U.S. Cyber Command’s crackdown on cyberporn.

    2. Anybody else remember how during the worst of the Bush the Lesser Era, that you’d hear certain people among the chattering classes talking about the next terrorist attack like they were hoping it would happen just to prove their opponents wrong?

      I’m gettin’ the same feeling from this Time cover and some other stuff I’ve seen… It’s like they’re hopin’ for another Oklahoma City. Prayin’ for it. Anything to stop the inevitable drubbing the Tea Party’s about to dole out at the polls come November.

      All of this should underscore the obvious–the Obama Administration is indefensible. The case for the Obama Administration cannot be made to ordinary Americans.

      1. They ARE hoping for another Oklahoma City. The sooner they can find an excuse to declare martial law, the better.

        All bets are off, though, if it’s a left-wing group that perps the next Oklahoma City, which would still be blamed on teabaggers anyway. Even if they didn’t have any involvement.

  3. Bonus reading: “The Top 10 Most Absurd Time Covers of The Past 40 Years.”

    The “Cyberporn” cover has to be a work of satirical genius. No one could have done that unintentionally.

    1. Unintentional self parody is true nectar of the gods.

    2. They reported a porn “plague” 20-25 years earlier. I don’t remember hearing about Debbie Does Dallas causing pustules, death, and Bergman films, but I was pretty young at the time, and my parents must have kept all that from me.

      1. Didn’t they show you Hardcore to frighten you?

        1. I hate when people conflate mainstream porn, amateur porn, and snuff movies. It is infuriating. Most human beings are not turned on by seeing other human beings killed.

          1. Professional porn is like pro wrestling… it’s all fake. You can’t script a good fuck.

          2. I have no idea if “snuff porn” is a turn on or not. Link and I’ll let you know*

            *I assume it basically doesn’t exist. Some Congolese with a video-capable phone will probably prove me wrong.

            1. Snuff films, strictly speaking, don’t exist and even not-strictly speaking (films where people are killed but the purpose wasn’t to commercially distribute the film) are extremely rare as well.

              Of all the horrible things people are willing to do for money, for some reason snuff films don’t seem to be one of them, thank god.

              1. There was that German dude who hooked up with some guy on the internet for the purpose of creating such a film. They cut of his penis and fried it up and ate it. Then he was killed and cut up for parts, all on tape. I guess that one sort of counts.

                I’m surprised you don’t here that referenced more. I guess the ick factor is so high that our collective consciousness just cant cope, so we ignore it in hopes that it will just go away.

        2. If you like funny stuff, the black guy telling George C Scott off at his audtion is pretty hilarious. Of course, Peter Boyle getting kicked out of his own apartment is pretty funny too.

    3. They are funny but they are depressing. Notice the mistakes all go one way. It is not so much a traditional liberal versus conservative split. There are too many cultural things in there like porn and foul language for that. No, what they all have in common is that every story assumes that people cannot control themselves and therefore must be controlled from above. Every story is a story of an “epidemic” of people doing bad things becuase they just can’t control themselves. It is some really twisted shit when you think about it.

    4. “Cyberporn” was the most heartbreaking thing I every tried to click on…the smut, filth, perversion, and lewdness was …underwhelming…didn’t even move

  4. The most dangerous groups in the country have names like MS-13, Crips, Bloods, etc.

    But lefties ignore them and hyperventilate over the imagined threat of milita groups.

    Strange, isn’t it?

    1. MS-13, Crips, Bloods,

      SWAT…

      1. 10;10

    2. Not at all. That’s the “security detail”

  5. A vehicle with a Ron Paul bumpersticker and an AR-15 in the trunk would certainly qualify as an APC.

  6. Maybe it’s just me, but has Time become little more than tabloid journalism? Their cover stories have been atrocious (sp?) of late. Do they even cover newsworthy events any more?

      1. Exactly, they’ve been nothing but US Pravda for at least 20 years. I fuckin’ hate Time-Warner as much as I hate Disney.

    1. Re: James,

      Do they even cover newsworthy events any more?

      I stopped considering picking up an issue a long time ago – now I don’t even bother to consider it, I just pick up an issue of “TV Notas” to look at the latest Latina bombshell’s derri?re.

        1. For that link and your constant intellectual slapping of Toni you earn my deepest respect.

        2. Mmmmm – chicas

        3. I for one am going to retire to Mexico. Never before have I seen more instances in a popular culture where an unattractive older man in a brown suit is surrounded by impossibly hot babes.

          It has to be real. It just has to be.

          1. Yeah, it sucks to live in Texas as a young woman because a bunch of old, fat, ugly Mexicans somehow think you’re interested. I’ve punched a few who’ve gone too far.

            1. Heh. You’re getting hit on by the wrong ones then. All the girls in North Texas roll around with a bunch of old,fat, ugly, RICH Mexicans(or white, doesn’t matter ‘cept the RICH part).

          2. Brazil for me. Something about that place…

        4. thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank youthank you thank you thank you thank you…

      1. That magazine is a ripoff. They have a headline about Sonia Vergara and her 34 DD chest, but the pictures might as well have come from a People magazine spread.

        1. IT’S SOFIA. ::drool::

    2. It’s possible that my perceptions have shifted over time. I used to take Time seriously. When I was 17.
      I ceased taking it seriously as I got older. And I *really* stopped taking it seriously when they started giving Man of the Year repeatedly to Clinton or Bush or “You”.

      I don’t even read Time to find out what they are talking about anymore. That’s what the New York Times is for.

      1. For me it was when I was 15, but yeah.

      2. Hazel, you’re dating yourself. Time really was a serious news weekly back when I was 17, several decades ago.

      3. My mum subscribed to it when I was a kid. I remember a three or four page story on le Carr?’s work when Smiley’s People came out, along with a review of that book. I was maybe ten at the time, and spent the next few months going to the library to pick up his every novel. I was a really smart kid then, but I had the decency to smoke that overload of brain cells away as a pot head teenager. If not for that, I would have definitely have turned out to be neoliberal wonk living in a basement at Langley quanting away at numbers using a rubbish economic model to justify an x amount of money going to an x number of bribes in bumfuckX country this quarter, all at the tax payers expense if I had followed down the road Time magazine lead.

        1. Paul Krugman works in a basement at Langley?

          1. Langley does a lot faux economics based analysis to decide policy and I was alluding to a rather infamous fuck up of theirs with the example I used.

            1. Yeah, but doesn’t Krugman also use “faux economics based analysis”?

            2. Hey, don’t make fun – the Soviet Union has overtaken us in GDP.

    3. Time for adults:

      http://www.theonion.com/video/…..-ad,17950/

      1. Thanks for the link. Absolutely precious and bang on the money.

        Viva la Onion!

      2. Brilliant! Thanks for the link.

  7. I wonder if this article made it into the adult version of Time magazine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TT81o4hL4c

  8. The most dangerous groups in the country have names like MS-13, Crips, Bloods, etc. But lefties ignore them and hyperventilate over the imagined threat of milita groups. Strange, isn’t it?

    It isn’t.

    Street gangs are threats to each other, and to people who live in their crossfire, mostly poor minorities. Militias are a (hypothetical) threat to Whitey and the System, man (i.e., lefties), so they’re all OMG about it.

    1. but isn’t the left supposed to be *against* whitey and the system?

      1. They’re only against the system when their hands aren’t on the buttons.

        1. Given the bureaucratic class, the times that has occurred in the last eighty years — never. However,you are quite correct to note they really, really hate it when they lose the symbolic power of elected officialdom.

      2. Anti-whitey, pro-system. Imagine a boot that looks like America stamping on a human face ? forever.

      3. Lefties are whitey and the system. Hence their discomfort with so-called Militias: (aka a guy in a trailer who owns a gun and says naughty things about the government to his drunk neighbor).

        1. My neighbor doesn’t drink, thank-you very much. 🙂

          1. Then I wouldn’t trust him.

  9. “In a reversal of casting, the armed antigovernment movement describes itself as heir to the founders.”

    You mean the founders were NOT part of an anti-government, armed militia? Wow, somebody call McGraw-Hill: There are millions of textbooks to change!

    1. You haven’t seen what passes for a history text for a while, have you?

    2. McGraw-Hill is way ahead of you.

    3. Well, many of the founding fathers were racists and didn’t believe in women’s rights! All of American history was just TERRIBLE until TR showed up, and then it was just really horrible until FDR swooped in and saved the day.

    4. Millions? I’m betting billions. those are some rich, dirty bastards.

  10. Anyone notice that when Democrats are in power, violence is more likely to be directed internally, while when Republicans are in power it’s directed externally?

    I mean, I know Republicans have investigated political groups when they are in power, but they havn’t after all, burned an entire hippie commune to the ground, children included.

    The militia paranoia just seems to be the lefty equivalent of fearing American force projection. Only it’s directed against Americans instead of foreign enemies.

    1. Er, the lefty equivalent of force projection.

      Or fearing the Muslim.

      It’s ‘fear the teabagger right-winger milita patriot’.

    2. I watched My Trip to Al Qaeda on HBO the other day. Excellent documentary, by the way.

      Anyhoo, he very astutely pointed out that the irony of Al Qaeda, the Taliban and their various bretheren was that if and when they do get a toehold to power, their first victims are other Muslims, not the imperialist westerners they so despise.

      Or, shorter version: It’s really all about domestic policy with Democrats.

      1. You and your logic.
        I mean, if we want to kill Muslims, we can leave Afghanistan and plenty of Muslims will get killed. Um, but if we’re trying to save Muslims, we got to kill some Muslims because the Muslims we are trying to save can’t do it for themselves…
        Oh, we got to make sure the correct Muslims get killed, except for occasional collateral Muslims. Of course, we were for the Iraquis before we were against the Iraguis until we got back to being for …some of them.
        Because if we hadn’t been there for the last decade, war and fighting would be kinda going on…

    3. I mean, I know Republicans have investigated political groups when they are in power, but they havn’t after all, burned an entire hippie commune to the ground, children included.

      If you are refering to David Koresh and the rest of his whackos near Waco, they were not hippies.

      1. You mean “they weren’t even hippies”.

        1. Other than that, I think you missed Hazel’s point.

      2. Yes, that was the important part. Thanks for noticing.

        1. It is important to get the facts right. The Branch Davidians weren’t hippies and the federal government wasn’t after them because they were hippies. They were a bunch of whackjobs using religion to brainwash little girls into sexual servitude to that raving psycho, David Koresh.

          Yes, the feds fucked up the operation big time – no doubt about that – but the deaths of those innocent children were on the heads of Koresh and his cronies. They should have surrendered when ordered. What? He thought his fucking bible would keep him from being arrested – or did he have a martyr complex and a death wish? I feel for the innocents – especially the children – but Koresh was a thug who got what he should have gotten long before.

          1. Do you get your ATF pay direct deposited or do your require cash under the table?

            1. Are you still pimping your 10 year old out to your pastor – or are you doing her yourself now?

      3. “If you are refering to David Koresh and the rest of his whackos near Waco, they were not hippies”

        Guess they deserved what they got, then. You know, practicing religious freedom and all that.

        1. Religious freedom, my ass. See my post above. You ever notice that most of these “religions” are all about power, money, and sexual access to young girls and women? Do you ever hear about any of the women getting access to any of the young men? It’s all a scam.

          1. As Adam Carolla says, a cult always starts with an acoustic guitar, and ends with the leader screwing your 14-year-old daughter.

            1. As Adam Carolla says, a cult always starts with an acoustic guitar, and ends with the leader screwing your 14-year-old daughter.

              Or in Koresh’s case your 12 year old daughter – not to mention your wife.

          2. So the solution is to slaughter the women and girls you suppose are being sexually assaulted and held against their ‘will’?

            They COULD have taken him out MANY times without slaughtering all the ‘victims’, as he was frequently in town, as were the other Davidians. Plus, the Davidians were living on that compound for decades, so the idea of this being some new-fad cult is kind of bullshit.

            Either way, since you advocate the judge/jury/executioner method of law enforcement, I’ll take it you don’t give a shit about individual liberties.

        2. David Koresh and his crew were no better than all those child-molesting Catholic priests that have come to light over the years. I suppose they were just practicing a little religious freedom, too.

          1. Funny how the ATF and DoJ haven’t been rolling tanks in on those churches though.

            Koresh was a loon and his followers were fools, but that doesn’t justify what the Feds did, and you know it.

            1. Funny how the ATF and DoJ haven’t been rolling tanks in on those churches though.

              They might be if those churches were stockpiling weapons, refusing to turn over suspected child molesters, and offering armed resistance to search warrants.

              Koresh was a loon and his followers were fools, but that doesn’t justify what the Feds did, and you know it.

              I said the Feds screwed up – big time, but I think they were perfectly justified in raiding the place. The locals sure as hell weren’t going to do anything. County Sherrif is an elected position in Texas, and the Branch Davidian compound was in a county that lies deep in the heart of the Texas Bible Belt. Waco is only a small city, but it has more churches and denominations in and around it than any other area in Texas. If you’re an elected official, you don’t stay that way by fucking with the Jesus Freaks.

              David Koresh wasn’t just a “loon.” He was a thug, a con-artist, and a sexual predator with a messiah complex – and like any other grifter, dangerous when cornered. If he hadn’t gotten a mistrial, he have been in prison already.

              1. Of course the STATE CPS and the Texas Rangers didn’t find any cause to go in guns blazing either.

                How dare they resist a search warrant being served by agents shooting down at them from helicopters?

                Come on, be honest FBI or ATF?

                1. Come on, be honest FBI or ATF?

                  Neither – not even government employed.

                  How dare they resist a search warrant being served by agents shooting down at them from helicopters?

                  Were they the black, unmarked helicopters, Chris? Maybe if you don’t want the Feds or the cops shooting at you, you shouldn’t meet them at the door with weapons in your hands – especially if they have a search warrant and a helicopter. Last I checked search warrants actually are constitutional.

                  1. Maybe if you don’t want the Feds or the cops shooting at you, you shouldn’t meet them at the door with weapons in your hands – especially if they have a search warrant and a helicopter.

                    Also especially if you have a record and a reputation for violence and being well armed.

                  2. Maybe you should go back and look at the footage of the incident..
                    The BATF/FBI started raining bullets on the front door before the Davidians even got outside.

                    Maybe you should listen to the Howell recordings where he repeatedly asks what the hell is going on, pleading with the negotiator to let the kids and women get out alive, stop shooting at them, and allow some press official into the compound to allow them to see what he had and what was going on.

                    Those people were murdered, and it wasn’t by Koresh.

                2. Of course the STATE CPS and the Texas Rangers didn’t find any cause to go in guns blazing either.

                  Do you live in Texas? When do state employees ever find cause to do their jobs unless someone is bucking their authority or there’s assets to be seized? Child Protective Services were pretty much a joke 17 – 20 years ago – still are to some extent.

              2. Stock-piling weapons is a crime in this country?

      4. I’m aware of that. I was making an analogy. If it were Republicans, they’d be going after communist hippies.

        When Democrats are in charge, they go after Christian fundie communes.

        Anyway, since Koresh and the entire cult is dead, the charges were never tried. We’ll never really know if Koresh was actually abusing children or if the government was just trumping up some bullshit allegations so they could wipe out a bunch of people that didn’t recognize their authority on gun rights.

        Remember it was the BATF that went in shooting. The child abuse stuff was the secondary allegation behind the weapons charges.

        1. Anyway, since Koresh and the entire cult is dead, the charges were never tried. We’ll never really know if Koresh was actually abusing children or if the government was just trumping up some bullshit allegations so they could wipe out a bunch of people that didn’t recognize their authority on gun rights.

          Huh? Koresh and 70 odd people died, but there were survivors of the cult; and they were subsequently put on trial.

          Do you really think the government of your country would intensionally wipe out a bunch of its own citizens, including children, because they “didn’t recognize their authority on gun rights?” Do you also believe Bush’s administration was behind 9/11?

          1. “didn’t recognize their authority on gun rights?”

            Do you really believe your government gives a shit about your gun rights?

            Do you still beat your wife?

          2. “didn’t recognize their authority on gun rights?”

            Do you really believe your government gives a shit about your gun rights?

            Do you still beat your wife?

          3. To answer your final question, yes. The government is perfectly capable of killing its own citizens for no reason.

    4. And don’t forget MOVE in Philly in 1985. Of course, if Time wanted to do a story on people who actually committed violence & who are associated with current political figures they could start with that retired education prof at UIC.

      1. They already did a story on me many years ago. I just wish I could get to see my picture on the cover of The Rolling Stone.

    5. Ruby Ridge happened under Bush I. A lot of people forget about that. I think DOJ and the FBI being out of control is a bi partisan problem. But the Democrats for all of their whinning about it when they are out of power, do nothing to stop it when they are in power.

  11. Obligatory

    Twisted Patriots
    Within a complex web of ideologies, most of today’s armed radicals are linked by self-described Patriot beliefs, which emphasize resistance to tyranny by force of arms and reject the idea that elections can fix what ails the country. Among the most common convictions is that the Second Amendment ? the right to keep and bear arms ? is the Constitution’s cornerstone, because only a well-armed populace can enforce its rights. Any form of gun regulation, therefore, is a sure sign of intent to crush other freedoms. The federal government is often said in militia circles to have made wholesale seizures of power, at times by subterfuge. A leading grievance holds that the 16th Amendment, which authorizes the federal income tax, was ratified through fraud.

    You know, Time, you’re making these dudes sound an awful lot like decent chaps. Maybe they’d like to come over to my place to have some punch and pie.

    The fighters shot blanks, the better to learn to maneuver in squads, but they buy live ammunition in bulk.

    Dammit, I need a few more cases of .223. I fucking hate how expensive ammo gets whenever cocksucker Democrats have power.

    1. I didn’t realize I was a dangerous radical when I purchased 2500 rounds of ammo last week. Granted 2000 of it was .22lr, but the rest of it was .223 (for a real live assault weapon no less!!).

      1. If you shoot a lot, a 5.45 upper pays for itself with cheaper ammo.

        1. I remember when I could get a box of 100 12 gauge at WalMart for $13.88. $13.88! Now it’s over 20 bucks.

          1. As far as I’m concerned, the correct price for a case of 7.62×39 is $79, and the right price for .223 is $139. It must have been great to live in the 80s, when you could get Norinco AKs for $100.

            1. Back in 2002 or 2003 I got a tin of 700 Russian made 7.62×39 for $69. That was awesome.

              It aggravates me when I want to go shoot skeet or trap and the ammo costs more than the range fees.

          2. I remember when I could get a box of 100 12 gauge at WalMart for $13.88. $13.88! Now it’s over 20 bucks.

            Racist.

            1. You guys still buy your ammo?

              Fucking slackers.

        2. I bought a .22lr AR upper recently for cheap plinking, which has significantly cut down on the price of shooting.

          Beyond that, I can buy brass-cased .223 for $6/20, so I’m collecting brass in anticipation of starting reloading soon.

      2. .223? Meh. My “assault weapon” uses 7.62 x 39. Better yet, the one I really want uses .308.

        Reach out and touch someone!

        I need a bigger gun safe first…

        1. All this gun talk is makin’ me hot….

    2. It amazes me that some leftists still hang on to anti-2nd Amendment sentiment or desire for gun control. They’ve been thoroughly routed. The populace doesn’t want it. The courts have rejected it. But for some of them, they just can’t let the gun control go.

      1. You can’t impose the absurd shit they want to, on people that can actually shoot back. Give them credit for acknowledging that.

      2. They’ll never let go, since Progress is on their side. The story of civilization is man’s struggle to bring about exactly what the majority opinion of the editoral board of the American Prospect thinks should happen, and any retracement is but a temporary delay.

        1. Heller and McDonald were victories from gun control. The states are now free to persue any regulation they want.

          1. “victories for gun control”.

            I will use the preview button.
            I will use the preview button.
            I will use the preview button.

      3. If Hillary had won, I believe that would be near the top of the issue agenda given how she routinely has flunkies in the Mexican government looking for political favors in Washington do interviews here where they make the bullshit claim that our laissez-faire gun laws are the main factor in the drug war violence. One even made a claim on the NewsHour that involved a gun that manufacturers here can only sell to governments foreign and domestic and not to citizens. If you have a problem with THAT gun winding up in the hands of the cartels than it was our government approving a sell to your government, you jackwad!

        God, I had those slimy fuckers. Like okra they need to be boiled before eaten.

        1. If there is any ambiguity about the intended cannibalism, it was aimed at Washington State Department employees who tend to have extra layers of fat and are likely quite tender and delicious. In my experience, Mexican politicians are skinny, though every bit as slimy as their American counterparts. You may want to wrap it in bacon after the boiling before you roast one.

    3. I fucking hate how expensive ammo gets whenever cocksucker Democrats have power.

      Any chance of prices coming down after November?

      1. I’m starting to reload my own, so I know my price is coming down immediately

        1. How long will it take to recoup the cost of equipment?

          1. Depends on what you buy. You can get a hand loader, dies and all the components you need for around $150, or you can get a fancy bench press and all the bells and whistles for a grand or more.

            It all depends on what you want to accomplish. Do you want zombie rounds? Competition rounds? Better ammo than you can buy?

            I reload for all my centerfire guns. 5 calibers all said and done (4 rifle, 1 handgun). I save a shitload of money and I shoot stuff not available to buy in a store. I also shoot a lot more.

            And yes, it is very relaxing. It’s not hard, but takes a certain amount of precision and attention.

            Buy a good reloading book BEFORE any equipment and read it from cover to cover. The Lyman book is a great one. Hornady is good too.

            1. When you said you didn’t pay for ammo I figured you liked to raid armories.

              Why don’t people like to raid armories anymore?

              1. It just hasn’t been as cool to do it since they hanged John Brown.

        2. Price aside, it is just enjoyable to reload

  12. Hmmm. There’s an election just around the corner. Two wars going poorly, economy in the shitter… Uh… Militias!

    The ATF should just set that Oath Keeper’s baby on fire already and be done with it. Maybe run his dog over with a tank. Problem solved.

    /sarcasm

    1. You only hope it is sarcasm. For a change.

      You probably can’t even get favorable odds on that.

    2. DO NOT GIVE THEM IDEAS

    3. ….napalm sticks to kids.

    4. Maybe run his dog over with a tank.

      We’re reviewing the training video on that now.

    5. Hush, Hater. You’re gonna give up Obama’s 2012 re-election strategy.

    6. “Hmmm. There’s an election just around the corner. Two wars going poorly, economy in the shitter… Uh… Militias!”

      Indeed.

      And not only that, because of Citizens United, Koch’s, Karl Rove and foreign corporations are DESTROYING OUR DEMOCRACY!!!!!!!!!!.

      Of course when George Soros funds a bunch of liberal groups, that is 100% legitimate and perfectly normal!

  13. If the death threats are down since Obama has become POTUS, then it follows that they must have come from the Hillary campaign. How else can you do the math?

  14. Am I getting old, or is the mainstream media really just a continuing rehash of itself?

  15. “The number of threats he has received has been consistent with the number received by Bush[…]

    Yet one more thing Obama inherited from Bush!!!

  16. Remember, always mention McVeigh, but never, ever mention why he was angry. Namedrop Ruby Ridge and Waco enough times that people have no interest in looking into them further. Turn them into codewords for wacky, angry people are angry. Thanks, mainstream media! Keep up that thesis fodder!

    (I’m 98 percent pacifist, McVeigh’s problem was that he decided to be as bad as the government. Oh hey, NSA/FBI/ATF, what’s up?)

    1. Oh hey, NSA/FBI/ATF, what’s up?)

      We refer to the NSA/FBI/ATF guy(s) who monitor this website as “Bob”.

      1. Guy? Bet they gotta whole special cell for libertarian blogs..

  17. “”The number of threats he has received has been consistent with the number received by Bush, Clinton, Reagan, and others.””

    Every one of those guys was in office for eight years. If Obama’s received the same number of threats in less than two years, that’s a 400 percent increase.

    Why can’t people think before they post something stupid?

    1. I don’t trust the numbers. Yeah, there are morons who threaten EVERY president, without regard to party affiliation, but those in charge of the stats can inflate them however they want.

    2. I don’t trust the numbers. Yeah, there are morons who threaten EVERY president, without regard to party affiliation, but those in charge of the stats can inflate them however they want.

      1. Argh! The squirrels got me!

    3. “Every one of those guys was in office for eight years.”

      And the USSS guy said the nubmers were “consistent” not “the same” meaning Obama is on the same pace. Jesus is every liberal this fucking stupid?

    4. Every one of those guys was in office for eight years. If Obama’s received the same number of threats in less than two years, that’s a 400 percent increase.

      Who is claiming that Obama received the same number of the threats in less than two years that those folks received in eight? Certainly not Wiley.

    5. Terri was in shock. “For God’s sake, Janet, put that fucking thing down! I mean it!” By this time she had reached the front door and fumbled with the lock as she attempted to open it without looking, as her eyes were glued to her daughter and the dead cat.

      Danny, you’ve been much stupider than usual lately. Keep it up, fuckslip.

    6. But there I go and spoil it all by posting something stupid like I love you….

  18. Why can’t people think before they post something stupid?

    Irony alert, Danny DeVito.

    1. Plus, if you think about the question per se the answer is blindingly obvious: People who think don’t post stupid things.

    2. Plus, if you think about the question per se the answer is blindingly obvious: People who think don’t post stupid things.

  19. Gay marriage : George W. Bush ::
    Militias : Barack Obama

    1. So “militias” are going to be the issue that renders Andrew Sullivan gob-smacked and filled with heart-ache, causing him to throw a months-long hissy fit, culminating in a very public breakup from his boyfriend Barack?

  20. If Militias Are On Time’s Cover, Does That Mean They’re Over?

    Don’t be ridiculous. Appearing on the cover of Time means that they got popular about two years ago, and the mag is only getting hip to them now.

    1. I’m waiting for Time to do a similar cover-story about armed, extremist leftist groups in America.

      Guess I’ll go to sleep a few hundred more times while I wait.

  21. They forget to mention that the grand jury foreman Fitzpatrick was trying to arrest has held the job for 20 years even though state law says it’s a 1 year position and then you can’t be on a jury for the next 2 years.

    1. Oops, it’s a 2 year position he’s held for 27 years.

      http://www.thepostemail.com/20…..orruption/

      1. Not surprising. Sad tales rarely are.

      2. What case has been running for 27 years with the same empaneled jury?

  22. What a CRAZY COINCIDENCE that this article is coming out just weeks before the midterm election! What are the odds?

    1. But this corporate money is being spent to influence an election in a good way.

      That makes it different from the spending that activist Supreme Court won’t let us ban!

  23. What happened to the Hurrutur (or whatever the fuck their name was) guys? Last I heard the judge was slapping around the prosecutor and FBI agents for having nothing more than tough talk over a 12 pack.

    Didn’t they roll those boys up just as they were trying out the whole “yelling at your congressman at a townhall meeting is terrorism” line?

  24. Great thread folks. Your eliminationist fantasies about liberals were very entertaining!

    1. Don’t be silly, Athy. If you wipe out liberals all together, my dining choices become much more sparse. The population of liberals should be relentlessly monitored and controlled, and at times when they over breed, the herd should be thinned out to mercifully save the lot of them from starving to death during the cruel Winter months, but wiping them out altogether? No hunter wants to see his game to go entirely extinct, only a foolish liberal would not understand that.

      1. FAN OUT THEIR NUMBERS, NED!

  25. Who here didn’t predict a new cycle of militia-phobia being exploited a year before Obama even got into office?

    Also notice the recent explosion of “white supremacist threat” documentaries on A&E, Nat Geo, History, ect, ect. Like the 12 guys with homemade SS uniforms marching in bumblescum Wyoming are going to seize power.

    Notice also all of these documentaries end with McVeigh-who wasn’t even a white supremacist ideologically speaking…he was a (dipshit populist variety of) libertarian. The libertarian=white supremacist campaign dates at least to the Clinton era.

    And it seems to be a bipartisan effort, most of these docs were made during the Bush years. Even on Fox News, their “Return to Waco” a few years back showed none of the existing FLIR footage of the FBI shooting into the compound.

    The fact that the Waco massacre is still treated as Conspiracy “Theory” by “respectable” media sources when there’s actual fucking footage of federal agents machine gunning the back of the building (aka the one place people could get out alive) still boggles my mind.

    1. “First, they came for the ‘extremists’ and yada yada”

  26. Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.
    John Stuart Mill
    English economist & philosopher (1806 – 1873)

  27. It’s amazing that people continue to buy the .gov line on Waco to this day. You have to be willfully blind or hate the Davidians personally for some reason.

    As far as it goes, what agent had the warrant with them on the raid? It’s a moot point about resisting a warrant if there wasn’t one on site in the first place! And even if the child abuse allegations were true, a big if, since when is that the ATF’s job, anyway? Were the Davidians wackos? Maybe. They were certainly eccentric and I personally wouldn’t want them as neighbors, but I don’t really think that’s cause to machine-gun anyone who doesn’t have the civic sense to stay in a burning building in order to spare the government embarrassment.

    The militia “movement” was crippled by Time once before, but more effectively, when they stuck the image of the firefighter holding a dead child at OKC to the militias, thereby cementing in the public consciousness that militia=babykiller. This latest effort is a poor joke without such a shameless prop. I hope nobody decides to manufacture one in the next three weeks.

    I too am irritated about ammo prices. Reloading is the way to go. Americans have plenty of guns, but entirely lack the will to use them, or at least that’s what bureaucrats and their paid enforcers seem to think, given the way they act. Sadly, they seem to have been correct so far, but I think the reaction, if it ever comes, will be all the worse for having been delayed so long. I guess the best evidence for resisting gun control in any form is that, if they treat us little people so shabbily when we have personal firearms, how in the hell do you think they’ll act when we’re all safely toothless? I think 1984 wouldn’t have nothin’ on what that would look like!

    And yes, get a 7.62×51 battle rifle while you can. AR’s are nice, but 5.56 isn’t going to cut the mustard overall.

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