The Wrong Kind of Toyotathon
The unintended consequences of an unintended acceleration panic
Tales of runaway cars have a long history. The first sudden acceleration study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) was done in 1978 and the agency had conducted more than 100 investigations involving 20 manufacturers by 1990. By the mid-1980s, the NHTSA, prodded by the Naderite Center for Auto Safety, was looking into a couple of thousand sudden acceleration incidents. A Nexis search finds that by 1987, NHSTA was reportedly investigating sudden acceleration in over 10 million vehicles involving models from Ford, GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Volvo, and Audi. The Center for Auto Safety—which is closely associated with plaintiffs' attorneys—claimed that sudden acceleration had resulted in more than 2,000 accidents, at least 650 injuries, and 23 fatalities among the car models under investigation.
Twenty-five years ago, sudden acceleration fears focused on the Audi 5000. At the time, most experts concluded that the drivers were mistakenly pushing the accelerator when they thought they were applying the brakes. Not surprisingly, pushing an accelerator accelerates a car. But in November 1986, the CBS television program 60 Minutes featured a mom who had run over her kid in her Audi. To illustrate the Audi menace, the CBS program also showed an Audi—rigged with a hidden canister of compressed air—lurching out of control.
By 1989, Audi was a plaintiff in 120 sudden acceleration lawsuits claiming damages amounting to $5 billion. Finally, in 1989, the Canadian government issued a report blaming the sudden acceleration on "driver error." Two months later, a NHTSA report found the cause to be "pedal misapplication," a euphemism for driver error. CBS asserted that it did not need to correct its reporting, dismissing the NHTSA report as "an opinion." The Audi episode subsequently spurred most automakers to install brake transmission interlock devices which require that brakes be depressed when shifting gears out of park, forcing drivers to focus on depressing the brake. Reports of unintended acceleration declined shortly thereafter, bolstering the contention that most incidents involved driver error.
And now we have out-of-control Toyotas. NHTSA has received reports linking 52 deaths and 38 injuries since 2000 to sudden unintended acceleration of Toyota vehicles. Last fall, Toyota recalled millions of cars to fix their gas pedals. Department of Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood further stoked public anxiety when he testified at a congressional hearing in February, "My advice is, if anybody owns one of these vehicles, stop driving it, take it to the Toyota dealer because they believe they have the fix for it." LaHood quickly withdrew his remark saying he had "obviously misspoken" and what he was trying to say was that Toyota owners should get their automobiles fixed as soon as possible.
Then last week, Californian James Sikes claimed that he drove his Prius for 34 miles as it accelerated to more than 90 miles per hour despite trying to brake it. A media firestorm erupted, but a week later neither federal investigators nor Toyota technicians have been able to reproduce what Sikes claims had happened. An independent check by the automotive publication Edmunds.com also found that applying the brakes or putting the car in neutral will bring a Prius to a halt. Further doubt has been cast on Sikes' account after an onboard self-diagnostic system revealed that the brakes and the accelerator on his Prius had been alternately pumped 250 times during the alleged runaway event.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that the reported cases of sudden acceleration are for real and not being cobbled together by greedy drivers and unscrupulous plaintiffs' lawyers seeking jackpots from playing civil jury roulette. How dangerous is driving a Toyota? First, consider that last year highway fatalities in the U.S. fell to 33,963, which is the lowest number of traffic deaths since 1954. Taking the number of miles traveled into account, the 2009 traffic fatality rate is the lowest ever at 1.16 deaths per 100,000,000 vehicle miles traveled. Nevertheless, this means that on average 93 people per day died in traffic accidents in the U.S. last year. Assuming that 52 people really have died in Toyota sudden acceleration events over the past decade that would net out to 0.015 people killed per day. Thus the 2009 daily rate of traffic deaths was 6,200 times higher than deaths from sudden acceleration incidents. To get a sense of the risks we run, the daily traffic death rate also compares to the 20 people per day who die from taking non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) like aspirin, mostly to manage the symptoms of arthritis. In other words, you are 1,300 times more likely to die from taking aspirin or other NSAID than from a sudden acceleration accident.
And what about the cost? Toyota estimates that the accelerator recall repairs will cost $1.1 billion. This means that Toyota is spending over $21 million per alleged sudden acceleration fatality. The National Safety Council calculates that the average economic cost of motor vehicle fatalities is $1.3 million per death. Even using a measure that includes quality of life variables and people's willingness to pay to reduce their health and safety risks, the total cost adds up to $4.2 million per motor vehicle death. And who knows how many millions or billions more Toyota will end up paying once the trial lawyers get finished?
To get a sense of the safety trade-offs involved in spending $1.1 billion to prevent sudden acceleration events, consider enhanced seat belt reminder systems. Such systems chime every 30 seconds for five minutes to remind drivers and passengers to buckle up. A rough estimate is that it would have cost $1.4 billion ($140 a piece) to equip the 10 million vehicles sold last year with the system. Studies show that enhanced seat belt reminders annoy people enough such that they increase their seat belt usage by 5 percent. Each percent increase in seat belt usage is estimated to save 250 lives per year, so an overall 5 percent increase would save an estimated 1,250 lives compared to five lives per year saved by preventing Toyota sudden acceleration events.
Safety panics can and do mislead regulators and consumers about real safety priorities. Bottom line: Do yourself a favor, buckle up—it will greatly improve your chances of surviving an automobile accident, whether it's caused by intentional acceleration, unintentional acceleration, or "pedal misapplication."
Ronald Bailey is Reason's science correspondent. His book Liberation Biology: The Scientific and Moral Case for the Biotech Revolution is available from Prometheus Books.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
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Sure it's all blown out of proportion-if there is even any defect at all. That said, FUCK TOYOTA.
I want everyone to claim their used Toyota is doing something odd and dangerous. I want mothers asking advice columnists if they should let their children ride in other peoples Toyotas and hear :FUCK NO!!! WHAT KIND OF IRRESPONSIBLE MOTHER ARE YOU? DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO DIE??!!?!!
I hope Cali and Mass move to ban Toyotas.
Fuck Toyota, I hate that company more everyday.
Wow, nice tirade Wally. Care to elobrate on why you hate Toyota? Union member?
Ive been trouble free with my toyota for years. Im sure there are better cars out there but for me I havent found a more reliable and economical car. So yes why the hate for toyota so much?
Never had a worry with my toyota. Its always been a pleasure to drive. but the article above does appear very worrying.
i have trouble also with my toyota , i think of changing my car in the coming months but I worry to struggle more
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Thanks for your job, i use toyta.
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I own the same car and I'm super happy, too. Also keep in mind that there may be driver faults involved as well, the manufacturer can't be blamed for everything in my opinion. They have to check this online billiger, but premature judgement is never good.
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I definitely recommend you consider switching to Toyota. Theres a reason they are one of the top in the industry they are simply the best.
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Don't worry about your toyota, it is an extremely reliable car. Just like my
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Nice comment. I love Toyota though.
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Toyota has long been slipping into mediocrity in terms of its car production and customer service. This article hardly surprises me. Best Wishes, Jane
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Ive been trouble free with my toyota for years. Im sure there are better cars out there but for me I havent found a more reliable and economical car. So yes why the hate for toyota so much?
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I think the real quality is better than all this bashing makes us believe, personally never had the slightest problem with mine. In general, asian manufacturers like Samsung are very reliable.
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I am also a long time toyota owner, and only been pleased with those I had. My next car with also be a Toyota.
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If you dont have a problem with your toyota, why dont keep it?
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Harko, I agree with you.
My oppinion is that 90% of these cases are like UFO detecting cases, worth of custom essay writing only, so now I'm going to explain my point of view:
Audi 5000 is not self-accelerating car, because tests by Audi corporation's engineers and independent journalists showed that even with the throttle wide open, the car would simply stall if the brakes were actually being used, so this car has such a "fame" just because of raw of case matchings..
There are no tests that prove Toyota's self acceleration reasons
I'm also the Toyota's owner for more than 10 years and I can tell you that this is really a very reliable vehicle
Let this will be a-kind-of-conclusion: do not hesitate to use cars, if you will use them as it's written in usage rules, everything is gonna be ok.
Regards, Peter.2010.
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Toyota has always been known for its obsession with quality control.
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At least Toyota are recalling the cars. I have an MR2 and have had 2 free repairs sorted by them - Im the 2nd owner and the car is 10 years old! Most manufacturers just let their cars fall to pieces. I had an MGF which had a major problem with the headgasket. Did MG recall it? Nope they charged everyone a fortune to repair it when it blew!
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Yea, we all hate safe reliable cars that get good gas mileage. Go mpunch the clock and stand around for a few more hours. Maybe you can complain Toyota has always been known for its obsession with quality control.opinions, wait those are provided by the union, my bad.
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I have also had a Toyota for about 10 years and it has been a very reliable vehicle.
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Been a long time Toyota owner and never had any serios problems with any of mine. Best car ever.
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I agree with you they're pretty safe cars, however most people use cars that are not as safe. I think the government should support car owners, so they could quip their cars for a lower price when they for example refinance car loan. This could save the life of thousands of people, because they would equip their cars with new safety systems.
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Why the Toyota hate? I own one--is there a reason I shouldn't?
I own two Toyotas, with a total of 160K trouble-free and safe miles on them. Is there some hidden problem I somehow missed, TiradeBoy TM?
How do you run up 160k miles on an island?
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Drive to and from work. Drive to the grocery store. Drive kids to horseback riding, and soccer, and football. Repeat for 11 years and 6 years, respectively.
Even a "small" island like Oahu can result in 60 mile round trips.
Do not forget that it is still a brand with a history major. Cars prevalent products, they probably will revolutionize the auto market. These things will be seen soon in a few years. Maybe we can truly understand what is importance.
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Are there any real cases of malfunctioning cars causing unintended acceleration. Is it all just "driver error" and cons?
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Hello! Im sure there are better cars out there but for me I havent found a more reliable and economical car. So yes why the hate for toyota so much? Thanks, ?????????
I have no Toyota yet but i can't understand how can we understand all fault of that I think thats wrong way to give such kind message.
However survey support this article well and may be some unaware to me which i can't predict now Please add some more information in next article as well.
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I also cann't understand why it is so to hate Toyota like this. Is there reason about manufacturing so manufactures make understand whats the cause people's interest has move towards other option.
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I have a Toyota myself, I think they are fantastic cars. Very Reliable, and I will certainly buy one again.
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Wally must be one of them shit for brains union members.
Yea, we all hate safe reliable cars that get good gas mileage. Go mpunch the clock and stand around for a few more hours. Maybe you can complain that the company your union helped kill isn't paying you enough to stand around and contrive ignorant opinions, wait those are provided by the union, my bad.
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Are there any real cases of malfunctioning cars causing unintended acceleration. Is it all just "driver error" and cons?
I had a Thunderbird that accelerated due to the floor mat riding up under the accelerator pedal. Turned off the ignition, and after that ALWAYS checked floor mat placement on any car I was driving.
Dunno if I would characterize that incident as a vehicle malfunction, though.
That was a problem in the newest Toyota pickups....Toyota's fix? "Remove the floor mats"
Seems easy enough to me.
My Toyota has a little hook that holds the factory floor mat in place so it doesn't slide over.
Of course, when the mat wore out, I didn't buy the $50 replacement mats.
There undoubtedly are. The question is, once the acceleration occurs, what's the remedy.
Almost every car manufactured can suffer from "sudden acceleration syndrome", geezer profile of the driver notwithstanding. A corroded or damaged throttle cable- or broken spring on the actuator could leave a car accelerating - drive-by-wire or no... a jammed floor mat, a wayward lap dog. All manner of things might cause one or two of the MILLIONS of cars on the road to accelerate in a way that the driver doesn't intend.
However, once the acceleration occurs, what's the remedy for the driver? Dropping the transmission into neutral will work, applying the brake, or shutting the engine off will all result on a remedy to this.
The problem is largely psychological. For instance, if the driver shifts into neutral when the accelerator is "stuck", the engine will rev and often startles the panicked driver, thinking he/she is accelerating even further out of control. Panicked, not thinking, the driver will then put the car back into drive.
Also, turning off the ignition is sometimes completely ignored as an option.
And then you have people like Sikes who are either retarded, or scammers-- or in his case, both.
applying the brake, or shutting the engine off will all result on a remedy to this.
Applying the brake on a sufficiently powerful engine, such as the aforementioned Thunderbird with a V8, WON'T stop the car when enough power is being applied.
Shifting into neutral will stop the power from reaching the wheels, but can destroy the overreving engine.
If you have decent arm and leg strength, best bet is to shut off the engine and jsut deal with the lack of power steering and brakes as you brake and pull over to the roadside.
Shifting into neutral will stop the power from reaching the wheels, but can destroy the overreving engine.
The majority of cars made in the last 6 or so years (maybe more I can't remember the exact beginning date) have a "Rev limiter" .
Limiters prevent damage to an engine by interrupting the power that is distributed to the spark plugs, this prevents the engine from operating above a pre-determined RPM level known as the red-line.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev_limiter
Running a car at the redline, while not necessarily destroying it, will definitely harm it and shorten its remaining operating life.
I suppose the best approach, if you don't have decent arm or leg strength and have a newer car with a rev limiter (which my car doesn't), would be to shift into neutral, quickly brake and steer onto the road shoulder, then shut off the overreving engine to end further damage.
Running a car at the redline, while not necessarily destroying it, will definitely harm it and shorten its remaining operating life.
It depends how long it remains at the red line. If you just redline your engine and then back off you aren't really harming it at all, as this is within the capabilities of the engine. But if you take a 1996 Corolla, put a brick on the accelerator and walk away, sure you will break the engine. I'm just saying that redlining the engine does not automatically mean you are harming it.
The damage on an engine goes up rapidly, perhaps exponentially, as you increase the revs and the power applied. That's why stock cars in a 500 mile event have to have new or rebuilt engines after each race.
Even a brief burst at 6500 RPM (the redline on my car) is much harder on an engine than the usual idle to 3500 RPM range I drive it at 99.9% of the time.
A brief burst at 6500 rpm is "much" harder? I disagree. Again, I'm not saying it's good to rev at this level constantly (such as your NASCAR example) but I would question how much harder it really is when done sporadically. Certain higher performance cars need to be revved at higher revs on a regular basis to maintain smooth performance. If you keep a 911 at 3500 its whole life it will burn out sooner than if you don't.
Plus, 3500 max rpm on a 911 is like totally lame.
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Running a car at redline doesn't damage the engine nearly as much as running a car out of control into another car, into a tree or bridge abutment, into a lake, etc.
Agreed, Scooby. Which is why if you aren't strong enough and experienced enough to drive it without power steering or brakes, best to deal with the redlining damage until you can get the car pulled over and stopped.
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applying the brake, or shutting the engine off will all result on a remedy to this.
As long as one applies the brake with the intent to stop immediately. If the driver stupidly tries to control the speed before trying to stop the car, then the brakes will overheat and fail to stop the car. This will also happen if they pump their brakes like many were taught to do in drivers ed (despite it being the exact wrong thing to do in a car with ABS).
There have been a few cars found with burned out brakes and one guy drove his car to a dealership by occasionally shifting to neutral to prove that it was accelerating.
Uh, links?
The burned out brakes on Sikes' car was caused by riding the brakes lightly over a long period, not consistent with someone who slammed them on to stop a runaway car. His story is bunk.
The fact is fully applying the brakes will stop any Toyota even at full throttle and will do so quickly enough that it will not destroy the brakes.
Link? Because I distinctly remember my sudden acceleration incident and being unable to stop the car despite jamming the brakes down as hard as I could. Slowed, but not stopped.
And the V6 in Toyotas is a fucking powerful engine -- 268 hp, 248 pound-feet of torque. I would be surprised if the brakes were good enough to bring that engine to a halt at full throttle.
"We tried to re-create the circumstances surrounding some recent incidents. We took the highest-horsepower Toyota Camry to the test track to see whether the brakes could stop a runaway vehicle -- which they can."
Jeremy Anwyl - Chief Executive of Edmunds.com
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01693.html
Then you didn't fully apply the brakes. The brakes in modern automobiles are far more powerful than the engine -- even in the exotic genra.
Car & Driver tested this concept with several different representative vehicles including a Rousch Stage 3 Mustang, an automobile producing a prodigious 540 supercharged horsepower.
http://www.caranddriver.com/fe.....-tech_dept
The highlight: From 70 mph, a maximum-effort stop with the throttle fully open required 80 more feet than a max-effort stop with the throttle closed.
The C&D tests don't prove much. The rout on which the Sikes incident took place had a number of long inclines and descends (which can overheat and diminished the effectiveness of the brakes on most cars; his car finally slowed down when climbing one of the inclines. I've seen a number of stories on this incident; none have quoted Toyota as directly stating that 250 accelerator applications were recorded. The CR article stated plainly that the car recorded 250 brake applications. If Toyota's suggestion that 250 cycles of brake and accelerator applications took place was more than conjecture, they should have emphasized that fact. If the car recorded only brake applications, it's possible that Sikes was just trying to let the brakes cool after they had lost their effectiveness. None of this proves that Sikes was not attempting a scam, but Toyota's carefully worded statements (and the wishful thinking of their apologists) haven't proven that he was.
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Here you go.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/.....amp;page=2
Why is there no quote from the dealership employees who supposedly witnessed this? Did the reporter just trust this one random dude's story?
Obviously, this will look bad on the Toyota engineering that's supposedly so great, and that's what will keep them from acknowledging this.And BTW, this isn't something that an external lab could test and determine the cause of. With software, the source code is needed, in addition to an instrumented control computer and associated software debug equipment. Basically, you would need to be in their software development lab to know what was really going on.Work From Home Jobs
The point is that Toyotas automatically shut down brake, if you PUMP full him and down a few times, while an accelerator is also engaged; there is youtube video thereon. Certainly, if your transport vehicle accelerates beyond control, you will naturally want to PUMP up which brakes and down like mad. Thanks, ???????????
All this makes sense now. And I remembered that I a car I used to drive for work would get a stuck accelerator if you floored it... but you could just lift the pedal with your toe (I don't think a mat was involved).
The only thing I'm not so sure about is advising people to shut the car off... one click too far and the steering locks... that could get bad.
Maybe in addition to the other safety measures, they should write "Don't Panic" in large friendly letters on the steering wheel. Panic seems to be the real killer here.
Yeah, a copy of the Hitchhiker's Guide in my wheel would be sweet!
The steering only locks if the vehicle is in park.
Unless you drive a stick.
Revealed: the solution to all of the Prius acceleration problems:
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Toyota has always been known for its obsession with control.
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Unintended acceleration (uncontrolled as many drivers report) requires the simultaneous failure of two systems -- the throttle control and brake control systems -- that do not share any common components. Not during the same week, or even on the same day, but simultaneously.
That would be like your left headlight burning out at the same exact instant your muffler falls off.
Consider the odds of that happening.
I wonder how many more reports the NHTSA has received regarding Toyotas since the media hype began...
I would respectfully like to add that it requires the simultaneous failure of THREE systems: The ignition switch as well.
You mean like this?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....it16m.html
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There only has to be one system failure for catastrophic events related to any unanticipated acceleration to occur, which sits between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.
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I wonder how many more reports the NHTSA has received regarding Toyotas since the media hype began...
Millions I hope, all unfounded hahaha! Fuck You Toyota!
Wally, your anger intrigues me. I like to think you're a WWII vet, tortured by the Japanese.
Or John McCain's cellmate.
Maybe the Beaver owns a Toyota?
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I'm not so sure they had "cells" in the Vietnamese POW camps.
The first time around he was just a curiosity. The second time cracked me up. Did this guy just step out of a Doonesbury cartoon?
I really doubt there is any more danger in driving a Toyota as there is in any other vehicle!
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I just randomly picked a car (Jeep) and searched for 'sudden acceleration. I noticed something on the reports. Here are the names of all the people suffering from "sudden acceleration":
Cheryl
Cynthia
Heather
"W"
Suzanne
Andrea
Denise
Jacob (who described a third party event as "she")
Donna
Carol
James
Anna
Carlton (who relays an experience from his wife- hasn't happened to him personally)
Georgina
Gaynell
Gail
Brian
Kim
Jayne (relays experience of her teenage son)
Mark
I'm noticing a trend (not 100%), but I can't put my finger on it.
There's another pattern which has been making the rounds over the weekend:
http://www.theatlantic.com/bus.....?rss=37448
Well that's 2/3 of the equation for the statistically worst driver possible. Living in Japan right now, I fear for my life every day! EVERY driver makes up the 3rd part of the equation, and in my town easily 60% of drivers qualify as seniors.
Paul, you have confused your lists. This one is the list of women who have told you to fuck off. Please add me too.
Are you suggesting that women are bad drivers!? Outrage!!
". . . let's assume that the reported cases of sudden acceleration are for real . . ."
OK, let's assume that. Your argument seems to be that an inherent design or manufacturing flaw that causes death or injury should be compared to all the other, driver caused cases. As well, since it would be cheaper to just pay 1.3 million dollars for each death, let's not worry about it. Caveat emptor, indeed.
jv: Part of my point is that one can chase random risks or one can prioritize and get more safety.
Definitely do in the main brakes. The brake system I think is more important than the engine. You can save your life many times. I hope we all understand this.
In my site about piese auto i explain this thing to all that want to read it. Thanks again for this good article.
Prolefeed still hasn't explained why he hates Toyota.
People who worry about over-revving an engine seem to forget that it's being suggested as a way to save their lives, maybe.
At Car and Driver, they tested and confirmed the theory that brakes are stronger than engines. The worst case test was with a 540 HP Roush Stage 3 Mustang. From 100 MPH and with a pinned throttle, they say it took 903 feet to stop. But it stopped.
Re Sikes, there's at least reasonable doubt about the veracity of his story and the cause of the burned out brakes. Why couldn't he first have burned out his brakes (e.g. front of car off ground, brakes applied for a long time with accelerator depressed, both partially) before staging the accident? Could that have fooled the police officer who smelled the brakes? Could it fool Toyota and NHTSA?
CB
Oh, and how fast was Sikes' car accelerating if it only got up to 94 MPH during 20 minutes of 911 chat? Or can a Prius not go any faster?
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Funny how none of this happened until the USA got in the car biz by buying GM. Then suddenly there was a problem with Japanese cars which until then had been the most reliable. Hmm.
I've never heard of a beneficial owner of one concern fabricating stories that harm the competitiveness of a rival concern.
Nor have I ever heard of a government fabricating stories to harm the competitiveness of foreign-based companies.
I'm sure these gas-pedeal stories are all 100% real.
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Very true, but if you notice that Honda quietly released their recall, but nobody noticed because of Toyota's issues.
There is no doubt Toyota is a brand by itself,but Toyota are the finest cars in the world.Toyota has the largest share of their products in markets like the US,UAE, Saudi Arabia,Australiaetc.There's hardly any complaint in their products.And most customers are a satisfied lot.
There is no doubt Toyota is brand by itself,but Toyota are the finest car in the world.Toyota has the largest share of their products in markets like the USA,UK,Saudi Arabia.There are hardly any complaint in their products.And most customers are a satisfied lot.
Funny how none of this happened until the USA got in the car biz by buying GM. Then suddenly there was a problem with Japanese cars which until then had been the most reliable. Hmm.
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I am British and worked as a QA Engineer for an Engine Management Systems manufacturer in the past. Toyota has just undertaken a recall extension in Europe, of that started in the US. I concur with most of what you have said. As well as radiated energy being the possible cause of the problem, there are other electrical input errors from external sensors that could generate incorrect signals if they should malfunction. The Design Failure Mode and Effects Analysis should highlight all possible failure modes arising from malfunctioning sensor or extraneously radiated input signals. Toyota is a very professional company and I would well imagine their engineers have gone, and are still going through, all possible system scenarios that could lead to acceleration surges, if indeed this is the reason for the worldwide recall. The drive-by-wire engine management software is key to the problem. It should be robust to illogical inputs and cross-check inputs to ensure they are indeed possible. Noisy inputs generated by EMI or RFI should be filtered by hardware networks before the signal is processed, to minimize their influence on the true electrical input signals and the software processing thereafter. The bottom line is that the fuel injectors are pulsed with a modulated signal from the ECU that varies their opening times, dependent on inputs and the programmed fuel map. This in turn allows more gas into the cylinders with the resulting accelerations/decelerations accordingly. I take my hat off to Toyota for biting the bullet on this very expensive recall and I believe their professionalism and engineering will find the root cause of the problem and an effective countermeasure to resolve it.
I think the problem has do do with the fact that Toyotas automatically shut down the brake if you PUMP it up and down a few times, while the accelerator is also engaged; there is a youtube video on this. Of course if your vehicle accelerates out of control you will naturally want to PUMP the brake up and down like mad. Then the power brake will automatically shut down. At this point, even if you realize that you can shift to NEUTRAL, it is too late since the car is already at 120MPH and you cannot stop the vehicle! Do NOT pump your brake up and down. Shift to neutral (or reverse on a Prius which has no Neutral) and then FIRMLY hold down the brake without pumping it!
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I agree with your main point. It makes a lot of sense that they would do that. I think that jackadam is right on que and really seems to know a lot about the topic. I guess we'll see what Toyota shareholders think when they address their concerns to the family CEO and also see if their new models are safer. This should buy them a considerable amount of time especially with the BP oil spill that is currently going on in the gulf. http://www.saltwateraquariumlighting.com/
Thanks for the post,defenetly this is the problem!
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I worked in the automotive industry for more than 36 years in various engineering positions, including Design & Development Engineering, Engineering Supervision and Testing. Even though the pedals are manufactured by both Denso and CTS does not mean that the designs and specifications provided by Toyota to both companies are identical. Denso was supplying pedals to Toyota several years before CTS so it is likely that the designs and specifications are different. I am familiar with CTS and they are an excellent company when it comes to quality. They have received numerous Supplier Quality Excellence Awards from nearly every car manufacturer to which they supply parts. I commend Toyota for not placing the blame on CTS. While I have not read every article on this subject, I have not read where Toyota has come out and exonerated CTS. While various other car companies do use CTS pedals, each pedal has it own unique design and specifications. Even though other car companies are investigating their vehicles that use CTS pedals, none (including Ford) have found problems nor have they issued a recall. BPI Training
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My only point is that if you take the Bible straight, as I'm sure many of Reasons readers do, you will see a lot of the Old Testament stuff as absolutely insane. Even some cursory knowledge of Hebrew and doing some mathematics and logic will tell you that you really won't get the full deal by just doing regular skill english reading for those books. In other words, there's more to the books of the Bible than most will ever grasp. I'm not concerned that Mr. Crumb will go to hell or anything crazy like that! It's just that he, like many types of religionists, seems to take it literally, take it straight...the Bible's books were not written by straight laced divinity students in 3 piece suits who white wash religious beliefs as if God made them with clothes on...the Bible's books were written by people with very different mindsets...in order to really get the Books of the Bible, you have to cultivate such a mindset, it's literally a labyrinth, that's no joke.
My only point is that if you take the Bible straight, as I'm sure many of Reasons readers do, you will see a lot of the Old Testament stuff as absolutely insane. Even some cursory knowledge of Hebrew and doing some mathematics and logic will tell you that you really won't get the full deal by just doing regular skill english reading for those books. In other words, there's more to the books of the Bible than most will ever grasp. I'm not concerned that Mr. Crumb will go to hell or anything crazy like that! It's just that he, like many types of religionists, seems to take it literally, take it straight...the Bible's books were not written by straight laced divinity students in 3 piece suits who white wash religious beliefs as if God made them with clothes on...the Bible's books were written by people with very different mindsets...in order to really get the Books of the Bible, you have to cultivate such a mindset, it's literally a labyrinth, that's no joke.
I don't got your point. But thank you all the same.
Funny how none of this happened until the USA got in the car biz by buying GM. Then suddenly there was a problem with Japanese cars which until then had been the most reliable. Hmm.
We can't totally blame them because every manufactures wants to Put speed on your Ranking so thats why they made a mistake while Your statistic tells the story very clear.
I don't understand where the Problem actually !
Because after some year getting so success this kind of trouble indicates bad quality Product as Promise by manufactures.
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Interesting Post but this is not right to say sign of death it may some bad impact so like Office Furniture it serve better because life is everything and Put life is in danger is not wiseness ourselves
That's an interesting post about Toyota, I think still Japanese Auto manufacturers think about this factor otherwise they must be ready for a tough time in US. Big giants of US like General Motors and Chrysler are play vital role in this regard. Thanks
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"That's an interesting post about Toyota, I think still Japanese Auto manufacturers think about this factor otherwise they must be ready for a tough time in US. Big giants of US like General Motors and Chrysler are play vital role in this regard. Thanks" Yes very many thanks.
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I do not care very much Toyota. Very good cars and not only. Martin from mahjong club.
Erm, I have a Prius and now I'm scared to death over those figures you mentioned. Im not so sure I should say thanks!
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The is unintended consequences of an unintended acceleration panic
it was investigating sudden acceleration in more than 10 million vehicles, including models made by Ford, GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Volvo, and Audi. The Center for Auto Safety, a Naderite group closely associated with plaintiffs' attorneys, claimed sudden acceleration had resulted in more than 2,000 accidents, at least 650 injuries, and 23 fatalities among the car models under investigation.
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It is not right to say the death-sign is Toyota.
However companies should realize how life is precious so make their Product in such a way.
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You's have to be a psychic to predict how this will effect Toyota sales in the years to come, but I feel this issue will not tarnish their reputation as a premier car manufacturer.
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I have one Toyota Prius... it is a green car and I love it.
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"That's an interesting post about Toyota, I think still Japanese Auto manufacturers think about this factor otherwise they must be ready for a tough time in US. Big giants of US like General Motors and Chrysler are play vital role in this regard. Thanks" Yes very many thanks.
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Toyota has had a long and successful road. Although they had a big bump in the road they will still be a strong leader.
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In my opinion almost all cases of sudden acceleration accidents are the result of driver error and are due to the fact that in certain circumstances drivers will panic and stamp on the pedals (I know I did it myself one tiime), sometimes this goes badly wrong! I think with all the technology available in this day and age there should be measures to avoid such incidences! accident claims
Just what I was looking for and quite thorough as well. Thanks for posting this, I saw a couple other similar posts but yours was the best so far. I hope it stays updated, take care.
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I got a great deal during this timeframe on a Toyota and am as happy as can be. Toyota makes a great car.
Toyoto is my favarite car...I have been using this car from last 5 years Regards
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Thanks for such a wonderful article. I am a huge fan of various kind of sport cars so this one is really for me. Toyota is one of the best Japanese cars nowadays for sure. I had few models and I was really happy about them. However remember to check your life insurance information before sitting in this one. Of course I am only joking around. I hope that there will be more stories about other car developers too. Thanks one more time for the great article and keep publishing nice ones in the nearest future too.
Thanks for such a wonderful article. I am a huge fan of various kind of sport cars so this one is really for me. Toyota is one of the best Japanese cars nowadays for sure. I had few models and I was really happy about them. However remember to check your life insurance before sitting in this one. Of course I am only joking around. I hope that there will be more stories about other car developers too. Thanks one more time for the great article and keep publishing nice ones in the nearest future too.
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I think a seat belt reminder system isn't the ultimate solution. But at least they are doing something about it.
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I also agree that it isn't the ultimate solution but the sound can be really annoying sometimes and it can get you to put your seat belt just to stop it. types of dogs
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If the car recorded only brake applications, it's possible that Sikes was just trying to let the brakes cool after they had lost their effectiveness. None of this proves that Sikes was not attempting a scam, but Toyota's carefully worded statements (and the wishful thinking of their apologists) haven't proven that he was.
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To get a sense of the safety trade-offs involved in spending $1.1 billion to prevent sudden acceleration events, consider enhanced seat belt reminder systems. Such systems chime every 30 seconds for five minutes to remind drivers and passengers to buckle up. cheap wicked tickets
They just came out with a news report on Toyota. I guess this one guy had his car run-a-way, and he was standing on the breaks, as he puts it. Since he was one of the first people to experience this problem, no one believed him. Since there was a fatality in the accident, the guy went to jail and was just released!
I will never buy a Toyota!
Tlaking about runaway cars and safety, why do they manufacture cars that go so fast?
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I bet all those recalls that Toyota had to do really hurt the company's good name and image as a reliable Japanese brand
I bet that all the recalls that Toyota had to do really hurt the company's name and image as a reliable Japanese car brand. I also had a problem with my Toyota when I was on my way to friends to play online blackjack when suddenly I felt the car accelerating for no reason. Luckily nothing happened and I fixed the problem the next day.
I figure that Toyota was really hurt from all the recent recalls.
I also had an issue with my Toyota when I was on my way to visit friends to play craps and my car started to accelerate for no reason! I took care of it the next day. Great post!
If the car recorded only brake applications, it's possible that Sikes was just trying to let the brakes cool after they had lost their effectiveness.
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It's hard to know what to believe here. It says that Toyota couldn't reproduce some of the problems experienced, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
It certainly raises doubts however about the cars they are producing
It will be interesting to see how Toyota respond to this in the future. There have been many similar cases in the past, where the manufacturers have simply tried to sweep it under the carpet
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Ronald Bailey's article on the hysteria over Toyota's "runaway acceleration" issue ("The Wrong Kind of Toyotathon," June) misses one point: Although the "runaway acceleration" claim about the Audi 5000 of 20 years ago turned out to be a hoax--driver error combined with driver delusion and media hysteria--the onboard computer systems in today's cars make a similar claim more plausible.
Ronald Bailey's article on the hysteria over Toyota's "runaway acceleration" issue ("The Wrong Kind of Toyotathon," June) misses one point: Although the "runaway acceleration" claim about the Audi 5000 of 20 years ago turned out to be a hoax--driver error combined with driver delusion and media hysteria
Thank you for the very good article. In Germany, Toyota has no such problems.
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Interesting thoughts. It will factor into my thinking when I choose my next car.
As long as one applies the brake with the intent to stop immediately. If the driver stupidly tries to control the speed before trying to stop the car, then the brakes will overheat and fail to stop the car. If the mapping on it is changed it will be better. This will also happen if they pump their brakes like many were taught to do in drivers ed (despite it being the exact wrong thing to do in a car with ABS).
Yes i belive it`s quit true the fact about deaths from Toyota vehicles. Thay`ve always had bad gas pedals.
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Financial advisor Jocuri full By 1989, Audi was a plaintiff in 120 sudden acceleration lawsuits claiming damages amounting to $5 billion. Finally, in 1989, the Canadian government issued a report blaming the sudden acceleration on "driver error." Two months later, a NHTSA report found the cause to be "pedal misapplication," a euphemism for driver error. CBS asserted that it did not need to correct its reporting, dismissing the NHTSA report as "an opinion." The Audi episode subsequently spurred most automakers to install brake transmission interlock devices which require that brakes be depressed when shifting gears out of park, forcing drivers to focus on depressing the brake. Reports of unintended acceleration declined shortly thereafter, bolstering the contention that most incidents involved driver error.
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Its a shame that such a strong brand that bought some good cars like the MR2 let faulty brakes bring them down, think it will take a long time for them to recover, but safety should be paramount. I wonder how many accident claims have been made regarding the brakes issue?
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Why does everyone hate Toyota so much? Several people in my family own them and they seem to hold up much better than a lot of other brands. Like my brother has a Jeep and I have a Ford(right now atleast) and they both seem inferior to my dads Toyota.
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I think the entire automotive industry learned from Toyota's mistake and something like this shouldn't happen again.
I think the entire automotive industry learned from Toyota's mistake.
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Why couldn't he first have burned out his brakes (e.g. front of car off ground, brakes applied for a long time with accelerator depressed, both partially) before staging the accident? Could that have fooled the police officer who smelled the brakes? Could it fool Toyota and NHTSA?
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A brief burst at 6500 rpm is "much" harder? I disagree. Again, I'm not saying it's good to rev at this level constantly (such as your NASCAR example) but I would question how much harder it really is when done sporadically. Certain higher performance cars need to be revved at higher revs on a regular basis to maintain smooth performance. If you keep a 911 at 3500 its whole life it will burn out sooner than if you don't.
The C&D tests don't prove much. The rout on which the Sikes incident took place had a number of long inclines and descends (which can overheat and diminished the effectiveness of the brakes on most cars; his car finally slowed down when climbing one of the inclines. I've seen a number of stories on this incident; none have quoted Toyota as directly stating that 250 accelerator applications were recorded. The CR article stated plainly that the car recorded 250 brake applications. If Toyota's suggestion that 250 cycles of brake and accelerator applications took place was more than conjecture, they should have emphasized that fact.
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I find this words intriguing"Last fall, Toyota recalled millions of cars to fix their gas pedals. Department of Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood further stoked public anxiety when he testified at a congressional hearing in February, "My advice is, if anybody owns one of these vehicles, stop driving it, take it to the Toyota dealer because they believe they have the fix for it." LaHood quickly withdrew his remark saying he had "obviously misspoken" and what he was trying to say was that Toyota owners should get their automobiles fixed as soon as possible". You know I had been a victim of dysfunctional Toyota cars...but I still trust them.
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Why couldn't he first have burned out his brakes (e.g. front of car off ground, brakes applied for a long time with accelerator depressed, both partially) before staging the accident? Could that have fooled the police officer who smelled the brakes? Could it fool Toyota and NHTSA?
A real interesting read, I didnt think these things could have so many dangers. Thanks for sharing
Bottom line: Do yourself a favor, buckle up?it will greatly improve your chances of surviving an automobile accident, whether it's caused by intentional acceleration, unintentional acceleration, or "pedal misapplication." Distance Learning AND Affordable Degree
A brief burst at 6500 rpm is "much" harder? I disagree. Again, I'm not saying it's good to rev at this level constantly (such as your NASCAR example) but I would question how much harder it really is when done sporadically. Certain higher performance cars need to be revved at higher revs on a regular basis to maintain smooth performance. If you keep a 911 at 3500 its whole life it will burn out sooner than if you don't.
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The Toyota recall was a total bummer because I was without a car for a least a week. But on the other hand I didn't want to drive a car that didn't have a proper functioning breaks.
Wally, your anger intrigues me. I like to think you're a WWII vet, tortured by the Japanese.
A brief burst at 6500 rpm is "much" harder? I disagree. Again, I'm not saying it's good to rev at this level constantly (such as your NASCAR example) but I would question how much harder it really is when done sporadically. Certain higher performance cars need to be revved at higher revs on a regular basis to maintain smooth performance. If you keep a 911 at 3500 its whole life it will burn out sooner than if you don't.
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Shifting into neutral will stop the power from reaching the wheels, but can destroy the overreving engine.
The majority of cars made in the last 6 or so years (maybe more I can't remember the exact beginning date) have a "Rev limiter" .
Limiters prevent damage to an engine by interrupting the power that is distributed to the spark plugs, this prevents the engine from operating above a pre-determined RPM level known as the red-line.
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I would respectfully like to add that it requires the simultaneous failure of THREE systems: The ignition switch as well.
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Running a car at the redline, while not necessarily destroying it, will definitely harm it and shorten its remaining operating life.
It depends how long it remains at the red line. If you just redline your engine and then back off you aren't really harming it at all, as this is within the capabilities of the engine. But if you take a 1996 Corolla, put a brick on the accelerator and walk away, sure you will break the engine. I'm just saying that redlining the engine does not automatically mean you are harming it.
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Definitely do in the main brakes. The brake system I think is more important than the engine. You can save your life many times. I hope we all understand this.
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Why does everyone hate Toyota so much? Several people in my family own them and they seem to hold up much better than a lot of other brands. Like my brother has a Jeep and I have a Ford(right now atleast) and they both seem inferior to my dads Toyota.
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Certain higher performance cars need to be revved at higher revs on a regular basis to maintain smooth performance. If you keep a 911 at 3500 its whole life it will burn out sooner than if you don't.
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The name of this post just made laugh really hard. I think Toyota has recovered fairly well from this PR nightmare. Good job Toyota, I think...
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In my country, Romania, I understand that after 2004 people start to give a chance of this brand model of cars. I'm fan of Toyota and in general of japanese cars like mazda or honda. Bad news to hear this.
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The C&D tests don't prove much. The rout on which the Sikes incident took place had a number of long inclines and descends (which can overheat and diminished the effectiveness of the brakes on most cars; his car finally slowed down when climbing one of the inclines. I've seen a number of stories on this incident; none have quoted Toyota as directly stating that 250 accelerator applications were recorded. The CR article stated plainly that the car recorded 250 brake applications. If Toyota's suggestion that 250 cycles of brake and accelerator applications took place was more than conjecture, they should have emphasized that fact. If the car recorded only brake applications, it's possible that Sikes was just trying to let the brakes cool after they had lost their effectiveness. None of this proves that Sikes was not attempting a scam, but Toyota's carefully worded statements (and the wishful thinking of their apologists) haven't proven that he was.
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Runaway cars problem is really dangerous and really scary!
I own the same car and I'm super happy, too. Also keep in mind that there may be driver faults involved as well, the manufacturer can't be blamed for everything in my opinion. They have to check this online billiger, but premature judgement is never good.
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It can't be that drivers were mistakenly pushing the accelerator when they thought they were applying the brakes.
you can't really be so sure that something will go smoothly just the way you want it...however you need to cope to whatever that change is and accept things.
you can't really be so sure that everything will happen the way you want it to be. all you have to do is accept the things that already happen and learn from it.
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Applying the brake on a sufficiently powerful engine, such as the aforementioned Thunderbird with a V8, WON'T stop the car when enough power is being applied.
Shifting into neutral will stop the power from reaching the wheels, but can destroy the overreving engine.
If you have decent arm and leg strength, best bet is to shut off the engine and jsut deal with the lack of power steering and brakes as you brake and pull over to the roadside.
The rout on which the Sikes incident took place had a number of long inclines and descends (which can overheat and diminished the effectiveness of the brakes on most cars;
When Health Care Reform passed Congress in March, Palin targeted 20-some House districts where Democrats voted for the bill. Her political action committee, Sarah PAC, spent most of its early money on, well, Sarah. But she took the bold step of endorsing several candidates in competitive GOP primaries, including several of what she called "mama grizzlies."
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Well I think that something had to go wrong, because at that velocity, the acceleration can't be that big.. But I beleive when people are saying what happened. Good article, by the way, thanks.
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A federal investigation into the recall of Toyota vehicles found no electronic flaws to explain sudden, unintentional acceleration, according to a report released Tuesday by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
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Riskless driving may be or not the cause in the case for those accident happened in their times. Statically list in the report the cause of car accident are DUI; drunk driving and influence of drugs.
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I not sure what Toyota model is my friend's car. As far I know, he is also experiencing the same issues regarding these cars.The company should have fixed the issue before as to protect their branding and customers - jovani prom dresses,
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Driver error, pedal misapplication, mistaking the accelerator for the brake?
How on earth did these people pass the driving test?
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Do not forget that it is still a brand with a history major.
Cars prevalent products, they probably will revolutionize the auto market. These things will be seen soon in a few years. Maybe we can truly understand what is importance.
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Now I am very satisfied with Toyota could, ok, the spare parts have to be cheaper and also the overall service, but bich satisfied.Restposten
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The whole issue was scarey, and frightening for consumers... Glad to see just a little bit later the company is changing there image.
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Why blame Toyota company? I think they have fault but it's better to know the real score before hating them.
Am worried about this issue. Hope this can help to make people or specifically drivers be aware.
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Thank you so much for letting us know about this kind of situation. This could help a lot.
Interesting topics are worth to be read just like this one. A little bit scary but it speaks about good information.
Each person should be responsible in driving. Recklessness can cause accidents. Hope this blog news can help people to think and realize about the situation.
Hope the car company is aware and should find ways to solve the problem. So that they will not lose their customer's trust and willingness to continue to buy their products.
We don't need to blame Toyota.. Maybe the person who is driving the car has also a fault. From this post, we should be aware about road accidents. Thanks
This is one of the great news I've ever read. Thanks for the poster. Hope this issue will be solve immediately.
Thankful that I have read this blog post. Because I like this post and the attitude of the poster. But still I'm worried about this road issue and to the Toyota company.
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We shouldn't blame the company. Instead, made some investigations to find put the real cause of these road accidents.
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It's the responsibility of the owner of the car in times that he/she is driving. And we shouldn't blame the car company. Just sharing my opinion.
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To get a sense of the safety trade-offs involved in spending $1.1 billion to prevent sudden acceleration events, consider enhanced seat belt reminder systems.
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A brief burst at 6500 rpm is "much" harder? I disagree. Again, I'm not saying it's good to rev at this level constantly (such as your NASCAR example) but I would question how much harder it really is when done sporadically. Certain higher performance cars need to be revved at higher revs on a regular basis to maintain smooth performance. If you keep a 911 at 3500 its whole life it will burn out sooner than if you don't. Terrasse versiegeln
A brief burst at 6500 rpm is "much" harder? I disagree. Again, I'm not saying it's good to rev at this level constantly (such as your NASCAR example) but I would question how much harder it really is when done sporadically. Certain higher performance cars need to be revved at higher revs on a regular basis to maintain smooth performance. If you keep a 911 at 3500 its whole life it will burn out sooner than if you don't. Terrasse versiegeln
A brief burst at 6500 rpm is "much" harder? I disagree. Again, I'm not saying it's good to rev at this level constantly (such as your NASCAR example) but I would question how much harder it really is when done sporadically. Certain higher performance cars need to be revved at higher revs on a regular basis to maintain smooth performance. If you keep a 911 at 3500 its whole life it will burn out sooner than if you don't.
I've heared many times about runaway cars, and it's really not a good thing. I would like to say something about seat bealts also. Well it's really necessary to use it, i've heared of many many cases that seat bealt saved people's lives. So people, please, use it! Terrasse versiegeln Impr?gnierung
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One more reason to vote in favour of Toyota: I'm getting the new 'Camry' this spring!
I think that all those 'runaway cars' aren't for real. I'm getting the new Camry in a couple of month!
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