Reason Morning Links: GDR Memorial Edition

- Happy anniversary, Berlin.

- The Democrats' health care bill faces new obstacles in the Senate.

- The Supreme Court considers whether life sentences for juveniles violate the Eighth Amendment.

- More banks fail in five states.

- Iraq takes a step toward its next election.

- The Fort Hood conspiracy theories begin.

Comments

[Johnny Longtorso]

I found Andrew Sullivan's Xmas present:

BEATIN BARACK

Have fun watching the Big O stimulate his own package! Just wind up this Barack Obama and he becomes another jerk-off in the White House! A great political gag gift.

[Xeones]

Johnny, Sullivan already has like fifteen of those. He winds 'em all up and then joins in, if you know what i mean.

[SugarFree]

I don't know what you mean.

[John]

Andy has the special edition, limited run life sized version. It was only available to a select few. I think him, Matt Yglesias and Chris Mathews were the only ones to get one. Ezra Klein is still posting bitter rants on journolist about not getting one.

[TP]

More banks fail in five states.

In related news:

Wall Street Record Bonuses Return as Big 3 May Pay $30 Billion

Great, pay back TARP by borrowing from the Fed, right? I'm sure all the loans from the Fed are properly collateralized? What is this, Three card Monte?

[Montgomery Clift]

Don't call me Monte.

[Rodney Dangerfield's Ghost]

No respect at all!

But, how about a complete collection of all the "members" of congress?

[Underzog]

Ft. Hood conspiracy theories?

The murders were done by one of Reason's Muslim heroes.

That's no conspiracy -- that's fact!

"There's no need to fear. Underzog is here!"

[dave b.]

Donderooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

[Underzog]

Libertarians are pro Muslim terror. That's why so many are apologists for it.

[John]

Perhaps maybe if the media would stop lying and admit the truth that some nut embraced radical Islam and shot a bunch of people as a result, the wacko conspiracy theories wouldn't get any traction. The media is disgusting. They would rather slime veterans (oh it was PTSD. No he never saw combat. But he talked to people who did, it was secondary PTSD) than just tell the truth. Reason number 800,000 why I hope they all go broke.

[The Gobbler]

secondary PTSD

I believe the medical term is Second Hand PTSD.

[Groovus Maximus]

PTSD secondary to __(insert DX here)___

[brotherben]

Actually, I believe the terminology you seek is Contact PTSD.

[kwais]

I agree with John though, truth and honesty put to rest conspiracy theories.
The more our government and media lack transparency and honesty, the stronger the conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy theories are all widespread in the countries I have been to that lack the most freedom.

[Art-P.O.G.]

That actually makes rational sense.

[Michael Ejercito]

One can contract second hand PTSD by reading first-hand accounts about The American Civil War.

[The Gobbler]

My Dearest Virginia,

(insert Letter from Ken Burns "Civil War" here)

[Mike M.]

I know. If the leftists can't stand having their patriotism questioned and being accused of being sympathetic to extreme radical Islamists, they should stop making ridiculous excuses on behalf of guys like Malik Nadal Hassan.

[Zeb]

"admit the truth that some nut embraced radical Islam"

And you know this is the truth how?

[John]

I think giving a presentation at a medical conference about how the Quaran says that it is okay to behead unbelievers is a pretty good sign. I think posting on websites that suicide bombers are a-ok is another good sign. I think shooting people at the one place on Fort Hood where you knew there would be a gathering of soldiers about to deploy to the middle east, as opposed to shooting your boss or co-workers or someone you know, is another good sign. I think yelling "Allah Akbar" when you do the shooting is another good sign.

It is pretty obvious why this guy did this. Cut the shit and stop denying the obvious.

[Zeb]

I generally agree with you, John. I just think the word "truth" gets thrown around too freely, which is the only reason I responded.

[Garnished Paisley]

The Pendatic Academic

Combating America's enemies with Deconstructionism since 1957!

When the bombs are dropping, and the bullets are flying, are you going to rely on a mere Structuralist? I don't think so!

[Zeb]

Should have added "and shot a bunch of people as a result" to the end of the bit I quoted. I'm probably just being overly pedantic here, but we don't know anything about what caused what. Hopefully when the guy wakes up he will say something coherent.

[John]

I guess it depends on what "as a result" means. Look, the guy is a lunatic. Had he never been a Muslim would he have gone crazy and shot people? Probably but we will never know. But, all evidence suggests that it was done as a direct result of his radical views.

[Mike M.]

I second what John said, give us a break with the bullcrap. We know all we need to know.

[Art-P.O.G.]

It still bugs me how messed up Hasan's Class B shirt is in that picture.

[Rich]

Hopefully when the guy wakes up he will say something coherent.

I predict the first words out of his mouth will be "Allahu Akbar".

[J Gurgeh]

I predict it will be "where are those virgins?"

[smartass sob]

I hope the piece of shit never wakes up.

[Qualis Artifex Pereo]

I wish it turned out that Obama really was born in Nigeria and had to stand trial for forging federal documents, lying under oath, etc...

There was another great story during the campaign in which some whack job claimed to have had gay sex with Obama in the back of a limousine while the smoked crack. That would also make things way more fun in the news.

All one can hope for are cool scandals at this point.

[John]

A good Presidential gay sex scandel would be fabulous. Let's just hope any future Monty Lewinskis keep their cum stained shirts.

[Qualis Artifex Pereo]

*Clink glasses*

[brotherben]

Jesu. clink wore a monocle

[Michael Ejercito]

There was another great story during the campaign in which some whack job claimed to have had gay sex with Obama in the back of a limousine while the smoked crack. That would also make things way more fun in the news.

I saw that on YouTube once.

[MNG]

Agreed. The PTSD meme is incredibly stupid. The lengths PC folks will go to is pretty amazing.

[John]

They even hurt Muslims by not telling the truth. This guy was a nut. That is why he shot people. Islam was just an excuse. If he hadn't been a Muslim, he would have found some other excuse to do it. But by not telling the truth, they leave the field open for people to conclude that all Muslims are nuts and that is why the media won't touch it.

[MNG]

OK, I retract the following post...

[MNG]

And the "Radical Islam only appeals to the poor and disenfranchised Muslim" meme looks pretty silly right now too...

[MSM]

Suffering from secondary PTSD, he believed he was poor and disenfranchised.

Duh.

[Qualis Artifex Pereo]

Exactly, that's not as true as it could be. One of the hardest things about the radical Islamist terrorism is that a doctor or lawyer might just decide to blow himself up out of no where. Though, I've also heard that for a lot of people on the Gaza Strip, where unemployment is at something like 60%, the only thing stopping a lot of would-be bombers is the cost of the bomb.

[MNG]

John
When right wing extremists go a'shooting folks you loudly proclaim it says nothing about the right but just how nuts they were, but when this Muslim extremist does the same you seem to say it says something about the belief system...Just sayin'

[John]

Of course it says something about their belief system in both cases. If you believe that the it is okay to go shoot people because of whatever political or religous sacred cow you have, there is something wrong with your belief system. Just because a certain group of people think that hating the government makes it okay to blow up buildings, that doesn't mean that everyone who dislikes the government shares that belief system. There are gradiants of belief. In the same way, just because some Muslims think it is okay to kill the unbelievers, doesn't mean every Muslim thinks that way.

For some reason, the media can make that distinction when it involves someone they like (Muslims, PC protected groups) and can't when it is someone they don't like (anyone on the right).

[Tulpa]

If you believe that the it is okay to go shoot people because of whatever political or religous sacred cow you have, there is something wrong with your belief system.

Wait, weren't you in the Army? As in, trained to shoot people over whatever sacred cow your superiors decided needed to be protected at the moment?

[John]

I think killing other people in war who are armed and trying to kill you is a bit different than walking into an office and killing a bunch of unarmed people.

[Art-P.O.G.]

AKA rules of engagement.

[TrickyVic]

Military installations have an expectation of being attacked during wartime.

[John]

Not by someone wearing the same military uniform and pretending to be one of them. That is quite illegal under the laws of war.

[TrickyVic]

Yes, By any means the enemy can think of.

But since when did the laws of war apply in this confict? On either side?

[Michael Ejercito]

Laws of war have always applied.

Of course, spies on all sides have always broken the laws of war, due to the nature of their station, and were always dealt with if captured. During World War II, the execution of captured spies was never contested. It was never even contested in the Nuremberg trials.

[TrickyVic]

Personally, I agree. My belief is you should follow the rules. But my belief took a beating since the start of the WoT on the gounds that if they don't follow the rules, we don't have to either.

[brotherben]

I act not out of duty or reverance to some political or religious sacred cow but simply because some folks are a waste of oxygen.

[a]

just because some Muslims think it is okay to kill the unbelievers,

I don't think this guy had a problem with unbelievers in general. His problem is likely with US soldiers being deployed to Iraq/Afghanistan. If he had a problem with unbelievers in general, he would have chosen a much easier target.

[MNG]

Granted when a right wing nut shoots folks the media is quick to point to his belief system as a possible motivator, whereas here they are going to remarkable lengths not to mention this guys whacky ideology...

[OneTinySpark]

Like the dead guy in Kentucky with "fed" on his chest. We still don't know what happened there, but everybody had a hunch that it must have been right-wing terror and that hunch became the whole story. Now, in the face of undeniable evidence, they still aren't convinced that radical Islamic beliefs had anything to do with this.

[Qualis Artifex Pereo]

They think that was a suicide now.

[robc]

I think the investigators thought that from the beginning, but they refused to comment, because they were being professional.

[Rich]

"Told you so."

Some of us, without the "professional" hobble *commented* about it being a suicide from the beginning.

[Qualis Artifex Pereo]

A lot of otherwise intelligent people jumped to some pretty obnoxious conclusions in this case.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....ker_hanged

[MNG]

I find it amazing that any liberal would defend Islam anyway. Stoning gays, whipping adulterers, not allowing women to speak to men in public, etc., is pretty anti-thetical to liberalism one would think...

[Groovus Maximus]

Don't forget burkas, hajibs, discouraging education and other "luxuries" to women, and generally treating women there little more than chattel.

[Tulpa]

The same could be said of Judaism and Christianity, if you go by the literal texts and/or the most conservative strains.

Most Moslems are NOT militarist.

[MNG]

If you want to see a prime example of income inequality look at Saudi Arabia...

[Groovus Maximus]

The legislation would create a federally regulated marketplace...

Does anyone else see what is grossly oxymoronic and insipid about this quote?

[hotsauce]

No. It doesn't say "federally regulated free marketplace."

[John]

MNG,

To some people on the left, hating the US and the West is more important than principles. Since Islam in the form you describe is an enemy of the West and the US in particular, they won't criticize it. Only white westerners are subject to moral abprobation. It is really a form of soft white supremacy when you think about it. Muslims are somehow less human than white westerners and thus their transgressions can be excused as "authentic culture".

[The Gobbler]

approbation n. An expression of warm approval; praise. Official approval.

[John]

I am slow today. Thanks

[The Gobbler]

For folks like me that didn't know had to look a few words up in order to figure it out...

op?pro?bri?um (-prbr-m)
n.
1. Disgrace arising from exceedingly shameful conduct; ignominy.
2. Scornful reproach or contempt: a term of opprobrium.
3. A cause of shame or disgrace.

[Groovus Maximus]

The same formula also works for potentiating racial division is this country, John, a la the "Great White [Condescending and All Knowing] Liberal Hope".

[Attorney]

Lieberman said he opposes the public plan because it could become a huge and costly entitlement program. "I believe the debt can break America and send us into a recession that's worse than the one we're fighting our way out of today," he said.

Lieberman has been very likeable lately.

[BakedPenguin]

It's frustrating. You hardly know who you want to punch in the face anymore.

[Art-P.O.G.]

After Lieberman lost his mind, he seems to have become a better politician (by my standards).

[TrickyVic]

Don't kid yourself, Liberman has made no objection to the idea that govenment should force you to buy a commercial product by law simply becaue you are alive.

[BlueBook]

These conspiracy theories seem awfully thin lately. The guy's name was on one page of a document that someone in the White House might have read? Where's the copy of Catcher In The Rye? The stationery from the Greenbriar Hotel? Sightings of the same man a hundred miles away at the exact time of the shooting? If you're going to make up a crazy story, might as well make it interesting.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I don't know any Muslims who actually believe in that stuff, MNG.

[Obamocrat]

Constitution, shmonstitution.

[Pelosi]

Are you serious?

[Art-P.O.G.]

If you're going to make up a crazy story, might as well make it interesting.

Guy went to high school with Bigfoot (Steve Smith).

[The Gobbler]

So it was the rapings that pushed him over the edge.

[SugarFree]

Which is exactly what Steve Smith had in mind.

Bigfoot rapes in adolescence are the single biggest risk factor for middle-aged terrorism.

[Warty]

Steve Smith, you diabolical bastard.

[Art-P.O.G.]

That's one theory.

[SugarFree]

Well, I'd like to hear your explanation for all the Bigfoot rapes then, Mr. Smarty-Pants.

[Art-P.O.G.]

A fiction perpetuated by the chupacabra-media.

[SugarFree]

You're nothing but another Bigfoot rape-apologist. I bet you never said a people for the last 8 years when it was all Yeti rape.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Hey! The yetis never took it this far, man!

[Whoopi Goldberg]

Well, it's not like it was rape-rape.

[John]

That is just Sascquachism. Straight up!!

[SugarFree]

QUACHI!

[Art-P.O.G.]

Coolest Winter Olympics mascot ever?

[Nick]

He has to be cool to counter the hippie tard that is Sumi.

[Colin]

Happy anniversary, indeed.

I can still remember vividly the Wall falling. It was a moment that changed my life. A few years later, I was living in Eastern Europe -- a concept that would've been impossible to comprehend before the fall.

[BlueBook]

I remember shortly after, our history teacher was quoting from a textbook, something like, "unfortunately, it is unlikely that the Berlin Wall will come down any time in the foreseeable future, if ever." Then there was a pause, and he asked "now class, what is wrong about that last sentence?"

Good times.

[Rhywun]

It sure seemed that way, even in '87 when I was living in West Germany.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Were you a military brat?

[Nick]

My Democratic Congressman voted NO on the health care bill. Based on the way he's been pimping it all year, I expect the only reason he voted NO was because they had the votes needed and he can still win the district. If they needed his vote, I think they had it.

[Rich]

Ditto. He's trying to portray himself as fiscally responsible.

[The Gobbler]

Le Sueur deputy not charged in swim trunk shooting

LE CENTER, Minn. - A Le Sueur County sheriff's deputy won't be charged in the July shooting death of an unarmed Kasota man, a grand jury decided.

The grand jury deliberated for about two hours Friday night after hearing testimony in the death of Tyler Heilman. The 24-year-old was wearing only swimming trunks when Deputy Todd Waldron shot him twice in the chest during a July 20 arrest attempt.

Waldron was not in uniform, and Heilman's friends say he never identified himself as a deputy when he pulled over Heilman, who had been swimming at an apartment complex and allegedly speeding and driving erratically on the way home. The incident happened in Kasota, which is about 60 miles southwest of Minneapolis.

http://www.startribune.com/loc.....:_Yyc:aUUI

[John]

That is fucking depressing. Essentially it is open season on civilians. Cops can shoot them anywhere anytime. We are all now like wild pigs or crows. Could they at least set up a season on unarmed civlians? Maybe make it so cops can only hunt us down and shoot us in the fall?

[Art-P.O.G.]

He shot him twice in the chest? I guess at least the deputy didn't also shoot him once in the head.

[The Gobbler]

I blame the Grand Jury. What the hell were they thinking?

[John]

My guess is this guy was drunk and obnoxious. And probably got into it with the cop. And the cop, rather than use proportional force shot him and then gave some bullshit "I thought he was reaching for my gun" story. The jury just looked at it and thought, "the guy was drunk and he fucked with a cop, who are we to say the cop shouldn't have shot him?"

[Nick]

This is why I should be a permanent fixture on every grand jury everywhere. I am "the right people."

[TrickyVic]

Like it or not, there is no law that says a cop can't shoot you becuase he misjudged, or incorrectly escalated the situation. That's why cops almost always get away with crap like this.

[John]

But cops have rules for the use of force. They are taugh to use necessary and proportional force. I know. I have taught courses to cops. There is no way under the prevailing RUFs that he was right in shooting a guy who obviously had no weapon.

Cops get away scott free on this by playing the "you had to be there" card. That is bullshit. They get paid to make life and death decisions and they ought to be held liable when they fuck up. But they never are. Juries always give them the benefit of the doubt because even if they think the cop was wrong, they don't want to hold him criminally liable. Worse still, sovereign immunity ensures that they are never held civilly liable. Sovereign immunity has got to go. If we didn't have that this jerk would have had to carry liabiity insurance and after getting tagged for a big judgement would have been uninsurable and never been a cop again. As it is, he will not doubt go back to work no worse for the wear.

[TrickyVic]

Your a lawyer right? Then you know the differnce between violating rules and laws. If he violated a rule then it's up to the department not the courts to decide.

The concept that it's the juries that let them off is bullshit because when juries let them off, it's not that they love cops, it's that the laws that apply to you and me, don't apply to them for the reason you mention. They have a legal excuse. The law allows them a free pass, therefore the cops action is lawful most all the time. Like it or not. You don't like, I don't like it, most reasonable people don't like it, but until we change the law, it's not going to change. I believe it's important to focus on the real source of the issue, the law. We lose focus by blaming it on the juries.

While the liability insurance doesn't sound like a bad idea at first, the legislation to pass it would probably include ways to keep you from suing.

[roystgnr]

Of course there is - it's the same law that says a civilian can't shoot you because he misjudged or incorrectly escalated the situation.

It's obviously easy for law enforcement to avoid enforcing the law on each other, and that requires a pretense that they're morally above the law, but you're not obligated to fall for it.

[TrickyVic]

You are foolish if you think they are bound by the same laws, they are excluded from many, by law.

Juries which do not convict are not part of the LEO establishment.

It's not up to the cops to decide either, that's the DAs doing, sure there is a nexus, but even when the DA decides to prosecute cops are rarely convicted if the act happened while the cops was attempting to enforce the law.

[Nick]

If a DA presses charges on a cop, that should tell the jury they need to treat the case as they would any other and indict if need be. No juror should assume that because it was a cop that shot someone that it is somehow legal. If it were, the DA wouldn't have filed charges. In fact, if a DA files charges, you KNOW something the cop did was way out of bounds. So, either the grand jury is made up of a bunch of LEO friendly assmunchers or they really didn't have a reason to indict. I'm guessing it's the former and that pisses me off.

[Tulpa]

Hooray for jury nullification. Libertymike, MikeP, Fluffy, and other nullification advocates, your presence is requested in this thread to explain why this makes the world a better place.

[John]

I don't know that this was jury nullification. But, you are correct. If a pro drug jury can nullify a drug case, why can't a pro cop jury nullify a case like this? Reasons why I hate jury nullification.

[A Different Bill]

This is not an example of jury nullification. Apparently you're confused as to the meaning of the term. You keep using that word - I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Nick]

Technically, according to Wikipedia, it is a trial jury, not a grand jury, but in this case since they let the defendent off instead of holding him to the letter of the law I think it applies. They heard arguments that probably sounded a lot like "cop shot annoying guy that home owners associations have been complaining about for decades" and let the cop off the hook.

[Tulpa]

Please define jury nullification in a way that clearly and objectively excludes what this grand jury did, while including acquittals in drug cases where there is no dispute over the facts of the case.

[A Diffrent Bill]

The job of a grand jury is not the same as the job of a petit jury.

A grand jury must decide if there is sufficient evidence to indict ? i.e., to charge with a crime. A petit jury must decide if the evidence presented at trial proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused commited the crime charged.

A grand jury might determine that the person's actions did not constitute a violation of the law, or that there is insufficient evidence to create a prima facie case that the person did violate the law.

A petit jury might determine that the person did commit the acts alleged, and that those acts constitute a crime as the law is written, but that the result in the particular case would be wrong or unjust, and acquit him anyway. This is jury nullification ? refusing to convict despite sufficient evidence that the person in fact did commit a crime. This is not the same as determining there is not enough evidence to charge someone with a crime in the first place, or that the person's actions did not, in fact, constitute a violation of the law.

We do not have the benefit of seeing all the evidence that the grand jury was presented with, so we can only presume and guess why they refused to indict the cop. But even if they decided to give the cop the benefit of doubt and conclude that he acted in reasonable self-defense, and we can all disagree with that conclusion, based on what has been reported in the media, their determination that his actions were reasonable and lawful under the circumstances, or that there was insufficient evidence to demonstrate that his actions were criminal, is not the same as concluding that the evidence does show that someone did in fact commit a crime but refusing to convict because of a disagreement with that legal result in the given case.

[The Gobbler]

SEOUL, South Korea - North Korean leader Kim Jong Il ? known for shunning air travel ? has six luxurious trains equipped with reception halls, conference rooms and high-tech communication facilities, a South Korean newspaper reported Monday.

There are also 19 stations across North Korea exclusively for Kim's trains, which have a total of some 90 carriages, the mass-circulation Chosun Ilbo newspaper said, citing an analysis by South Korean and U.S. intelligence authorities

http://www.startribune.com/wor.....:_Yyc:aUUF

[Tulpa]

Wait a minute. John Madden retired from Sunday Night Football the same year Kim Jong Il had a stroke. AND there are no known pictures of the two of them in the same room.

Coincidence? I think not. I bet Kim has a man-crush on Blett Favle!

[James Ard]

So intelligence has known for months that Hasan has been trying to get in touch with aL Qiada. How in the hell did they let it go this far? Are those thirteen lives worth it to get a lead?

[John]

That is pretty appalling. An Army officer is trying to get in contact with Al Quada and the CIA doesn't think that is worth passing on to the Army. And the CIA is refusing to brief Congress on what it knew. Maybe the liberals in the CIA want the jihadists to win. I mean seriously WTF?

The CIA needs to be destroyed and rebuilt with all new people.

[Tulpa]

Thank God the Patriot Act removed those misguided liberal barriers to communication that allowed terrorists to slip through the cracks.

</sarcasm>

[John]

It actually did. There is no barrier to giving intel to law enforcement or vice versa anymore. But, what the Patriot Act didn't do was get rid of bureaucratic barriers. The Intel community is a bureaucratic mess. They won't share their information, because someone might use it and get credit for something.

[TrickyVic]

I doubt there was a law that prevented the CIA from giving the DOD intel during wartime.

But the barriers wouldn't be legal, they would be territorial. Or maybe the story that he was in contact with AQ is not true.

[John]

If it is true, the reason it wasn't shared if bureaucratic turf not the law.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Yeah, there's no way. When Uday & Qusay were um, apprehended, both CIA and DoD "assets" were on ground.

[The Gobbler]

I never grow tired of the picture of their fat, bloated, bullet-ridden naked bodies stretched out on a slab like the pigs they were.

It's smile-inducing. How could it not be?

[TrickyVic]

Exactly, the barriers would not be of a legal nature, they would be territoral, CIA turf, vs DOD turf.

[Nick]

This is why I should be in the CIA. I am "the right people."

[John]

You couldn't do any worse.

[Warty]

Underdipshit must be very hurt that no one responded to him. You Rhoemite bastards!

[SugarFree]

I still think it's just Dondero in a kippah.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Looks like dave b. arrived at the same conclusion.

[P Brooks]

The Vast International Islamofascist Terror Conspiracy puts a sleeper agent in the Army. He gets posted to Walter Reed Hospital, where he would conceivably have an opportunity to assassinate important government or military officials, who use the facility as their personal physician's office.

Instead, his deep, deep cover leads him to forego such targets, and wait until he gets sent to Texas, where he will be able to indiscriminately shoot a random assortment of low ranking soldiers.

Is that about right?

[The Gobbler]

You left out the part about the space aliens.

[John]

No one is saying that P Brooks. What the hell are you talking about? If only it were some vast conspiracy. It is actually more disturbing than that.

What apprears to have happened is some maladjusted loser with dellusions of grandeur becomes or is born a Muslim. As his life and career don't work out to fit his grandiouse dellusions about himself, he turns to more and more radical Islamic views as a way of justifying himself and giving the finger to the country that he feels doesn't recognize his greatness. He then meets radical imams who manipulate him and feed his dellusions. As he gets more and more radical and hostile, the people around him do nothing to intervene out of fear of being seen discriminating against muslims. His radical views repell people and hurt his career which in turn makes him more alienated and bitter and more radical. Finally, he pops a screw and commits an act of terror.

If only it were a vast conspiracy. You could stop a conspiracy. But, you can't stop there being alienated dellusional losers. This will not be the last time this happens.

[brotherben]

John, good call on the PC bullshit. I caught a story over the wekend from one of Hasan's co-workers saying the army has been aware of his radical views for years and didn't do anything. They were worried about offending Muslims or some shit like that.

[John]

The dude gave a presentation at a medical conference about how the Quaran says it is okay to behead apostates. Imagine if a skin head had given a presentation about how it is okay to hang people who marry members of the opposite race. He would have been out of the Army so fast his head would spin. But this guy got promoted. He was clearly very troubled. More and more people who knew him are saying they are not suprised he did something crazy. But, the Army never discharged him or tried to get him treatment because of PC concerns. In their defense, imagine if they had put him out of the Army or in a psych ward. CAIR and the like would have made this guy a victim.

[kwais]

Looks like the Imams that he went to in the US werent radical enough for him. That is why he went to the internet to find Al Q.

[Mike M.]

Our civilian governmental apparatus is officially all the way back to its pre - 9/11 mentality. Dangerous and hostile radical Muslims are to be ignored, but taxpaying Americans are to be screwed over in every way possible.

This is what happens when you put anti-American leftist scum in charge of everything. Enjoy your change America, it's only getting started.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Kind of a stretch to blame this on the White House or Congress. Like John pointed out, mistakes were made further down the bureaucratic structure.

[Mike M.]

And do think anyone will end up being held accountable?

[John]

The answer I think would be hell and no.

[Art-P.O.G.]

For as much as I know about the inner structure of large bureaucracies, I have no idea.

[TrickyVic]

But what mistakes? Failing to properly investigate someone exercising their first amendment right while in uniform?

Was Director Napolitano correct in wanting to investigate people serving or having served in the military for making anti-government speech?

[Art-P.O.G.]

I think John makes a good point in his 11:13 post.

[A Diffrent Bill]

There is plenty of precedent for the proposition that those in the military do not necessarily enjoy the full depth and breadth of First Amendment protections that we civilians do. You have a right to free speech and such, but you do not have a constitutionally-protected right to be in the military. You join up, you are bound by their rules - including some that may restrict to an extent what would otherwise be constitutionally protected rights if you had not joined the military.

[P Brooks]

Libertarians are pro Muslim terror.

Drat!

Unmasked, I am!

[brotherben]

BTW, I am under a hurricane watch today and tomorrow. Damnable Global Warming.

[smartass sob]

You all watch out for yourselves over there, Brother Ben.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Yeah, be safe.

[brotherben]

meh. It's gonna be a bit windy and rain a few inches. No biggy. I just wanted to beat the global warming drum with a huge dollop of sarcasm this morning.

[Katrina floater]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[BakedPenguin]

I still think it's just Dondero in a kippah.

Are hookers kosher?

[brotherben]

Not if they are sporting camel-toes.

[SugarFree]

Hookers are only indirectly considered unlcean, because--like the rabbit--they are known for chewing their cud.

[JB]

Ackerman sounds like a deranged lunatic.

John Kerry has STILL not released his military files years after promising to do so.

[Art-P.O.G.]

What? A DD 214?

[Art-P.O.G.]

I think you mean Corsi, not Ackerman.

[J sub D]

Oh for fucks sake! The Fort Hood murderer was a fucking insane psychiatrist.
If you prefer,
He was a fucking insane muslim psychiatrist.
Or an fucking insane army psychiatrist.
Or an fucking insane male soldier.
Or an fucking insane American major.
...

[The Gobbler]

Blather much?

[Art-P.O.G.]

"insane psychiatrist" probably has the most pathos...but might also be the most cliche.

[John]

Just because you post on websites about how suicide bombings are okay and spend your time trying to convert your co-workers, doesn't mean that you are a radical Muslim or anything.

Jesus J sub D, he was all those things yes. And he was also an insane cue ball baldy. But, only one of those things had anything to do with him killing those people. And I will give you a hint, it isn't the fact that he was a soldier or a head shrink.

Jesus J sub D, you are normally pretty reasonable and then you post dumb shit like this. Did you not take your meds this morning?

[J sub D]

Iraq takes a step toward its next election.

See? A stable representative democracy with respect for human rights has taken root in Mesopotamia .

The surge worked!

We can start bringing the troops home tomorrow!

[John]

For sure. They have had six years to get their shit together. If they can't do it now, they never will. Unless we plan to send those guys home via Tehran, their presence is increasingly useless.

[brotherben]

Beter get em out quick before it becomes Libertopia.

[John]

Instead of going postal, can we just call it going Muslim on someone?

[Art-P.O.G.]

Yeah, that'd be greatly appreciated by postal workers Muslims.

[The Gobbler]

Sudden Jihad Syndrome

[Art-P.O.G.]

I like that one.

[yet another dave]

I got this joke today, don't know if it's new or not but it was new to me thought it was funny though;

I was feeling suicidal last night so I called the lifeline,
got freakin' call centre in Kabul
"I told them I was suicidal,
they got all excited and asked if I could drive a truck"...

assholes....

[Pro Libertate]

I'm rather surprised that al Qaeda hasn't claimed this one. I doubt seriously that there's any connection whatsoever (other than the fact that the guy was Muslim and probably did this by combining extra crazy with his religion), but what would they have to lose to say it was one of their own?

[Mike M.]

By the way, has anyone mentioned yet that Hassan apparently attended the Dar al-Hijrah Islamic Center Mosque located in the Washington D.C. suburb of Falls Church, Virginia at the same time as Nawaf al-Hazmi, and Hani Hanjour, two of the 9/11 hijackers?

Pretty amazing coincidence there, eh? This must be a wonderful mosque, and it's practically right in my own backyeard. I really should go there some time.

[Nipplemancer]

No dog is off-limits in the Great American Dog Shooting Chapionship...

Baltimore Cop Shoots K-9 in face:
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.co.....polic.html

via Injustice News

[Art-P.O.G.]

I guess even the dogs are plainclothes these days?

[Nipplemancer]

if the dog dies, is that cop a cop-killer?

[The Gobbler]

Blocked at work. Why'd he shoot the dog?

[Art-P.O.G.]

K9 and officer were in pursuit of suspect. Another officer comes from other direction, dog bites man (apparently mistaking him for suspect). Dog apparently not wearing ID. Bitten officer shoots dog.

[Solanum]

I thought Pryzbylewski was a school teacher now.

[Isaac Bartram]

One of the early reports on Hasan said that he had applied to be discharged for reasons of concience and had even forked over a chunk of cash so that the was no longer obligated due to the cost of his med school.

Unfortunately that may just have been more of the unsubstantiated scuttlebutt that goes around when you have something like this happening.

But if they are true you have to wonder why the Army wouldn't have unloaded his sorry ass ASAP, especially if the radical views being ascribed to him are also accurate. But they not only kept him, they promoted him and put him on the list to go to Afghanistan.

[John Tagliaferro]

Army Major Malik Nadal Hasan, Victim of Institutionalized American Bigotry

What happens when you come up through the ranks of the Army, reach the top of your field, and then casually mention that you are of the Islamic Faith? If you guessed being shunned and called a camel jockey, you would be correct.

That is what happened to Major Hasan, US Army. No more no less.

It is no wonder he lashed out at the people who taunted him. He is a Field Grade Officer, but everybody blatantly ignored his orders and calls to the faith. The only reason, as we all know, is because his faith is Muslim. Of course, being Muslim automatically means that you are fundamentalist in the face of any other evidence, just because you had a bad day and defendes yourself against your tormentors.

Even his own relatives say he is peaceful and harmless. How many fundamentalists regularly visit strip clubs and drink beer like he did? I say that number is zero. He even tipped the dancers well and asked about their lives. He was probably trying to find a wife there and give her a better life. He is just as normal as you or I. Even moreso, he was generous, giving away many of his belongings to people who needed them more than he. The Army was taunting the wrong Muslim and turned him into a nuisance. If he were Christian of Jewish, none of this would have happened.

Major Hasan was obviously deeply affected by the Soldiers he was made to counsel, returning from Bush's wars, infecting him with secondhand Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. All of that after years of FBI harassment and investigations for expressing his views, then the Army threatened to put him on the front lines in Afghanistan. They should have known this would create Sudden Jihad Syndrome.

/sarcasm

[EnlistedMan]

But, the Army never discharged him or tried to get him treatment because of PC concerns.

John,

I am not arguing with your interpretation of the events, but there is at least one other explanation, perhaps partial explanation, for the good Major's "eccentricities" were over-looked - he was an officer. Officers look after other officers with a flourish that would make a beat cop blush.

[John Tagliaferro]

I was Enlisted before becoming an Officer (now discharged, honerable) and there is plenty of evidence and testimony that this guy was reported ENDLESSLY. John's take rings true to me. PC crazy system.