Barney Frank's Town Hall Meeting

Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) had a spirited town hall meeting in his home state recently in which he (unlike so many of his colleagues) directly engaged and insulted his constituents. I don't agree with Frank on much beyond legalizing drugs and gambling, but I think he comes off pretty well here, and certainly gets points for showing up.

Here's a report that includes many Frank-a-riffic highlights (for instance, asking a resident, "On what planet do you spend most of your time") from Greta Van Susteren's Fox News show, which also includes an interview with Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) about health care.

Comments

[Seer]

I'll be the first conspiracy theorist to say it. I think that girl was faking. She decided to get up there to say something insane to try and make the town hall protesters seem even crazier through media exposure.

[John]

"Here's a report that includes many Frank-a-riffic highlights (for instance, asking a resident, "On what planet do you spend most of your time") from Greta Van Susteren's Fox News show, which also includes an interview with Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) about health care."

I am blocked from watching this so I can't say for sure. But, that statement taken alone just makes Franks look like an asshole.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Full disclosure: I'm commenting from ignorance here, as I simply refuse to willingly watch Barney Frank (unless he's engaged in a pointless shouting match with Bill O'Reilly)...

Actually, I guess I don't have anything to say other than Frank is probably head and shoulders above the rest of Congress in his vileness.

[PR]

everyone knows what planet Barney Frank spends most of his time on.

[Kyle Jordan]

I agree with you John. I also agree with what Seer wrote. There's a whiff of "plant" going on here.

It's also somewhat amusing that Frank wants to have a "civil" conversation and still makes comments like that.

[Jaes Sutter]

Sorry but that Frank dude comes across as a real tool!

Russ
http://www.web-anonymity.us.tc

[Pro Libertate]

Frank's a jackass, his politics are reprehensible, and he's got the taint of corruption around him in the lending arena. Otherwise, he's an asshole.

[Rich]

Senator Frank: "I don't ask you to trust me" and "Medicare is not technically bankrupt".

What *is* it about this guy that enables him?

[Xeones]

Frank IS an asshole, John. At least he's an asshole with the cojones to try to defend his terrible ideas to the people he supposedly represents. The rest of these Congressional assholes haven't even shown any balls -- just an empty wasteland of withered taint, as far as the eye can see.

Anyway, its always nice when Our Leaders reveal their innate assholery in a public forum. The harder it is for regular folks to ignore that Washington is nothing but a swamp of assholes, the better.

[Pro Libertate]

And Frank's a Nazi.

[Solanum]

taint of corruption

Would withering even have an effect?

[don\'t forget]

and Frank is light in the loafers...maybe a reason for his bitterness.

[Xeones]

Would withering even have an effect?

Congressional taints come pre-withered, so no.

[Kyle Jordan]

"Anyway, its always nice when Our Leaders reveal their innate assholery in a public forum. The harder it is for regular folks to ignore that Washington is nothing but a swamp of assholes, the better."

It's kind of charming in a way though. I'd much rather seeing a congress critter call someone a "douchebag" straight up than some of the hideous political balderdash and chicanery most of them assault our senses with.

[Kyle Jordan]

*much rather see

[Rich]

At least he's an asshole with the cojones to try to defend his terrible ideas to the people he supposedly represents.

Senator Cardin (D-MD) as well, and he's less volatile than Barney.

However, until these guys, um, assimilate some of what the constituents who didn't vote for them are saying, the system is broken.

[Masshole]

He may be a cocksucker, but he's our cocksucker.

[Barney Frank]

However, until these guys, um, assimilate some of what the constituents who didn't vote for them are saying, the system is broken.

The system works fine. I've still got a job, haven't I?

[Xeones]

Exactly, Kyle. Honesty is an unexpected and refreshing thing in a politician, even if it's honest douchebaggery.

[Lord Whorfin]

@ Barney:

Laugh-a while you can, monkey-boy.

[brotherben]

I've watched the video twice. Would you please point to the exact time where he asks the person,"on what planet do you spend most of your time?". It is the centerpiece of your blurb and I can't find it:(

[brotherben]

Oh, and you could've bleeped out DeMint saying that "Senator Byrd has been irregular."

ummmm ewwww

[strike through]

I couldn't take more than two minutes of the Frankenstein. But I must know: what was Greta's Big Surprise? Does she still have a job? I must know. I must!

[Dave]

I don't know much about Frank, but anyone who says "which one of you wants to yell next?" is OK in my book.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

ProLib, I can't help it. Seeing the words Barney Frank, wither, and taint all in the same sentence has given me a serious case of the giggles.

Maybe I need more coffee..

[brotherben]

Damn. You got giggles. All I got was wood.

[Calltoclaud]

I have always found Frank to be the most disturbing member of the house. His speech impediment, while befitting his 'lifestyle", renders him to cartoon-ish levels. I wonder how many gerbils and empty tubes of lube are in the trash can inside his office...

[Shii]

I'll be the first conspiracy theorist to say it. I think that girl was faking. She decided to get up there to say something insane to try and make the town hall protesters seem even crazier through media exposure.

Haha, you are running scared. That woman is a LaRouchite. I've seen them on the streets of Boston carrying exactly that poster around.

I wonder how many gerbils and empty tubes of lube are in the trash can inside his office...

Having worked in his office I can confidently say zero. He's a family man.

[smthorpe]

HAHAHAHA!

This makes middle America look SO STUPID! All those idiots who yell even though they have no idea what is going on - HAHAHAHA!

THANK YOU AGAIN BARNEY FRANK!

[JB]

As one of the people most responsible for the current crisis due to his awful oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Frank is lucky that he just gets yelled at.

[smthorpe]

Way to go JB. Another person who doesnt know history.

Study up on policies enacted by Carter, Reagan, and Clinton, then get back to reality.

[Ben]

Why do people need to always make remarks about his sexual orientation. I'm pretty sure that has no bearing on the subject.
Yes, he acted like an ass, but these people don't deserve anything less.
I don't care how stronly you feel about a subject, when you stop being rational, you stop deserving to be heard.

[Abdul]

Why do people need to always make remarks about his sexual orientation. I'm pretty sure that has no bearing on the subject.

I have to agree with Ben. Commenting on Frank's homosexuality in a thread about his town-hall appearance is worse than bigotry: it's hackneyed and cliche.

[Brandon]

Frank is a rare politician who has a sense of humor and makes me laugh. That alone makes him one of my favorite leftists.

[Rhywun]

Why do people need to always make remarks about his sexual orientation.

Because gays are still funny. Like women. And blacks.

[Pete]

Questioner appearing as health-care expert or Hannity in 3.. 2..

[Assurances Maladies]

Pete.

Stupid.

[Mike G]

It's amazing how many commentators confess to making comments out if "ignorance" without having listened to Frank. His response questioning a person about what planet she comes from came after she asked him about support for a health care plan she says is equivalent to Nazi German policies while holding a picture of the president altered to look like Hitler. Frank responded reminding her he is Jewish and the "What planet are you from" reference makes sense in that light. She was acting like an idiot. He also said arguing with her would be like arguing with a dining room table. Unusual and tough stuff, but in this case probably right on point. Frank responded rationally to rational questioners.

[JW]

Hmmmm...what blog have we just been linked to?

[JW]

Oh, and that's a 'no' on watching the video.

Life's too short for that kind of pain and self-abuse. That's right brotherben, I said self-abuse.

[Ron C]

Thank you, Barney Frank, for making those who do not have any clue what is going on, feel like the uneducated hateful idiots they are.

[hmm]

Frank is the very thing the gay community rails against. He's just a bully.

[Federal Dog]

Didn't take long for Frank's staff to show up.

[Ron C]

"Frank is the very thing the gay community rails against. He's just a bully."

Another know nothing.

[hmm]

Ron C | August 19, 2009, 11:56am | #
"Frank is the very thing the gay community rails against. He's just a bully."

Another know nothing.

Please elaborate.

The influx of trolls is refreshing. In a who shit their pants kind of way.

[Ron C]

It means you obviously have a distorted "I am a selfish American" sort of reality of what the gay community wants - to be treated just like you.

[Pro Libertate]

I didn't watch the video. My opinion of Frank has been formed by years of watching his behavior in Congress. He's not one of the good guys.

[Laura]

Pro Libertate - if your name hints at what you believe, you are hilarious.

[hmm]

It means you obviously have a distorted "I am a selfish American" sort of reality of what the gay community wants - to be treated just like you.

All of that from thinking Frank is a bully, which is pretty easily substantiate, and the gay communities push to stop bullying? I'll give you the generalization argument since it is more semantic than anything. But the last time I checked, last week to be exact, more than one organization withing the LGBT community was proactive in a stop bullying campaign throughout schools.

How exactly am I treated? Who is doing the treating? Are you talking about government or society?

[Xeones]

Where are all these Frankites coming from?

[ransom147]

Laura | August 19, 2009, 12:24pm | #

Pro Libertate - if your name hints at what you believe, you are hilarious.

?

[Pro Libertate]

Xeones: Massachusetts?

Frank is one of those politicians who has worked overtime to increase the role of government in our lives, and to increase its power. Although he sometimes comes down on the right side of various civil liberties debates, he--like most statists--fails to see how providing nominal protection of civil liberties is meaningless if you turn government power up to an '11'.

Limited government is the only way to protect us from tyranny. Give that up and oppression will come.

[Beyond-The-Political-Spectrum]

I find Frank's ability to steal the thunder of these protesters and put them in their places quite refresing in regards to the issue of health care reform. I only wish other pro-health care reformers had the stones to give as good as they get at these town hall "meetings." Where was the concern about "overspending" & "deficits" when it came to funding two wars (one which didn't have to be fought) while giving tax cuts (what kind of math is THAT?)?

http://beyond-the-political-spectrum.blogspot.com/

[SugarFree]

Where are all these Frankites coming from?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say they were adopted from China.

[Pro Libertate]

Oh, please. First, you're in the wrong forum. Most of us opposed the wars or opposed at least the long-term occupation(s).

Second, the amount of spending occurring today--during a deep recession, mind you--is multiples of what it was during the admitted spendathon of the Bush years. Besides, wars can go away. New social programs and socialism are forever.

We should cut spending and cut taxes. There's plenty of economic opinion that tax cuts are one of the most effective ways to stimulate consumer and corporate spending/investment. The good of the country is purely secondary to ideology, which is why tax and spending cuts weren't central to the "stimulus" package.

The Democrats harped on and on about fiscal responsibility when they were out of power; now they spend like drunk teenagers with Dad's credit card. At the Hooker and Blow Store.

[SugarFree]

Where was the concern about "overspending" & "deficits" when it came to funding two wars

Right here, motherfucker. If you want to argue with the GOP I suggest YOU FUCK OFF TO ONE OF THEIR WEBSITES!

[Federal Dog]

"Where are all these Frankites coming from?"

Barney's orifice -- oops, sorry: office.

[Pro Libertate]

SugarFree is right. This is a Nazi site.

[ransom147]

i still don't get why freedom is funny?

either i'm daft or i missed something...

who'da thunk barnie had his own crew of netbots?

[ransom147]

Pro Libertate | August 19, 2009, 12:56pm | #

SugarFree is right. This is a Nazi site.

wait, i thought we were racists? what gives?

[Ron C]

Wow Pro Liberate.

You would think you are smart, but you are so wrong.

If dems are complaining about spending during Bush years, its on them, they controlled Congress.

Read something.

[Pro Libertate]

Ron C,

Uh, huh. They controlled Congress for two of the eight years Bush was president. He was a Republican and could've exercised a veto. He also submitted budgets to Congress and proposed increased spending on many fronts, including new social programs. And don't mention the war(s).

Why defend the indefensible? Who started the stupid bailout concept, anyway, and gave the Democrats cover for doing more of the same?

Pox, pox, pox.

[Federal Dog]

"who'da thunk barnie had his own crew of netbots?"

Not to mention a fake physician: Turns out that Sheila Leavitt is no doctor.

[Pro Libertate]

Racists? No. That's Raison. This is strictly a Nazi site. That's why Nick wears that leather Gestapo coat.

[ransom147]

Pro Libertate | August 19, 2009, 1:07pm | #

Racists? No. That's Raison. This is strictly a Nazi site. That's why Nick wears that leather Gestapo coat. -

oh, i thought he got it from a bum.

[smthorpe]

You all are too funny.

Constant comedy for the past hour.

No ideas, just negativity - join the libertarians!

[Pro Libertate]

I think it's sad how we libertarians get lumped by leftists into the "rightwing", without any real consideration of our views. We're about limited government, maximizing civil liberties, and free markets. Many of us favor limited government over no government, so we aren't anarchists. We believe that monopolies and most abuses by large businesses are the result of government intervention in the marketplace, not due to some sort of inevitable tendency of the market. Which means that the odd and misunderstood epithet "corporatist" (or worse yet, "fascist", which does not mean "friend of corporations", despite strange leftist beliefs that it does) doesn't apply, either.

It's quite annoying, to be honest. And I daresay we have more ideas than either major party does or is willing to consider. Go read what Cato has to say about really reforming healthcare. They don't create the false dichotomy that one either supports the "reform" bill or opposes reform. See, there are other ideas out there, but you don't want to hear about them. Ideology is more important to the left than utility or individual rights. And yeah, the Republicans suck, too.

[jhn]

Frank is wonderful in this clip, whether or not you agree with his policies. The women he beat down deserved if for calling him a "Nazi." I'm sorry, but supporting a system, however stupid, that many other English-speaking nations already have does not make you a Nazi, unless you are willing to call Canada and Britain Nazi states.

Munches.

Also, an elected official has no duty to give a shit what his constituents think, especially those that obv. didn't vote for him. Vote him out if you don't like him; he's a representative, not a delegate.

[smthorpe]

Pro Liberate,

I'm sorry I have offended you. Please stop putting words into my mouth like "you dont want to hear it." This makes me think of you as a typical Libertarian.

I think you are the 100th self-proclaimed "Libertarian" I have met, and the first to claim they have ideas.

The rest go to tea parties and complain about the past 8 months.

This is simply from personal experience.

[jhn]

@pro libertate

"Fascist" does imply "corporatist," which to me at least means that fascists tend to be pro-business but anti-capitalism. Thus I frequently condemn such corporations as Verizon who claim to be in favor of the free marker but actually will gladly accept any government interference that is in their favor.

Even the LP has a hard time distinguishing pro-(existing)-business from pro-capitalism, so why would you expect average voters to be able to?

[ransom147]

smthorpe:

" This is simply from personal experience."

then you are out of your depth around here...

[smthorpe]

"then you are out of your depth around here"

No, that type of response is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Thanks for the perfectly timed example.

[ransom147]

ooh... ya got me. how so. you come and start making blanket comments, then admit you know very little of what you are talking about.

that's being out of your depth.

[cborkowski]

This is interesting because in clip above DOES NOT contain the moment when woman asks Frank why he supports a Nazi policy, and to which he replies...I am going answer a question by asking a question..."On what planet do you spend most of your time?"

But yet many of the comments here reference that moment despite the lack of empirical evidence in said video clip.

Therefore I say It's taxing to remember where the political lines are drawn when the only thing you care about is hating the president.

[Geenie NaBottle]

TOUCHE Rep. Frank!!! THANK YOU!!!

Exactly what these people need a does of their own medicine. When you ask an azzhole question you get an azzhole's response!!!

More members of Congress should take a page from his playbook!

[Pro Libertate]

I suppose some people call themselves libertarians who are no such thing--Bill Maher comes to mind. But there are all sorts of libertarian ideas about how to do things out there--see the works of Hayek, Friedman, the Cato Institute, the Reason Foundation, etc., etc.

The Nazis got financial support immediately prior to them taking power because the businesses feared the direction that the other parties (esp. the Social Democrats) would take things and foolishly dismissed Nazi rhetoric (which, unfortunately, most people did until it was too late). After they took power, Hitler gave them some concessions until he was able to consolidate his position. From then on, he pretty much told them what to do. The businesses had no real influence on what the government did and no real freedom to act.

What libertarians--and even some Republicans--support is a free market, or at least a freer one than we have today. Barriers to entry and monopolies in history largely came about due to government involvement. Keep government out of the marketplace and prevent it from giving special rights or powers to a politically connected business, then most of the abuses people fear won't occur. By strictly limiting what government can do, all this lobbying by powered and special interests will become pointless.

No system is perfect, but the most moral system and the one that offers the greatest utility is one where individuals are largely free from government interference to pursue their own ends. Government interference that is, of course, purely motivated by political exigencies, not goodwill or anything noble and just. Despite the hype otherwise.

By the way, I don't blame Frank for abruptly dismissing any Nazi comments. I would, too, though maybe not quite so rudely. He would've been wiser to put her on the spot--"What's Nazi about this plan?" Besides, the admitted goal of all this really is socialized medicine, so there's a label you can throw out without hyperbole.

If reform were the real goal, deregulation at the state and federal levels would be on the table. The fact that it isn't shows that other axes are being ground.

[smthorpe]

You fucking lunatics are the biggest bunch of fucking wingnuts I've ever seen. Keep worshipping the fucking market, fools.

I've said what I came here to say. I'm done, this is my last post.

Fuck all of you.

[ransom147]

oh, and we were just getting to hate you...

[smthorpe]

Hail Market,
Full of grace,
Prosperity is with thee.
Blessed art thou among systems,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Capital.
Holy Market,
Mother of Goods,
pray for us consumers now,
and at the hour of our bankruptcy.
Amen.

[hmm]

That was astonishingly original. No really. I'm golf clapping on the inside.

[ransom147]

smthorpe is being puppeted! too bad he's not here to see it!

[smthorpe]

Wow, I haven't actually said anything since responding to Ransom147.

Very mature around here I see.

[smthorpe]

The post at 1:59 isn't me. Stop spoofing me you winguts!

[hmm]

Well that's no fun. Say something silly now so we know who you really are.

[ransom147]

[e-mail]

[e-mail]

[e-mail]

[e-mail]

[e-mail]

[e-mail]

still spoofing...

[e]

About time one of these politicans acted like they cared abot their country!

To liken Obamacare to the Nazi's make me wanna cry at the level of intelligence of some in this country. I mean you gotta have stupid people everywhere, but stupid and that uneducated?

BTW - if you wanna talk about fascism, look no further than the "Patriot" Act. THAT is more akin to Nazism than is Obamacare.

What is wrong with some people!!!!

[ransom147]

interesting you and your spoof came up w/ same exact email addy at 1:59 & 2:03

[SMT2]

I am back.

I came here for civil discussion, but this is the shit that Fox News and HuffPo boards gave me.

Are you not better than that?

[ransom147]

e

doubt you will find many supporters of the patriot act around here.

[SMT2]

I have always wondered this - Libertarians are very much so "look out for yourself" and "self-reliance" correct?

So what happens when YOU need help?

I know a lib and dem will go to some high priced Dr, because they both are loaded to the gills.

What about you?

[hmm]

So what happens when YOU need help?

Ask for help?

Or maybe enter the market with an item in trade?

Personally I strap on my red cape with a giant "l" on the back and fly away to save the day and solve my problems.

I don't go to the government.

[SMT2]

hmm | August 19, 2009, 2:20pm | #

Ask for help?

Or maybe enter the market with an item in trade?

But is asking for help not relying on someone else? Is this not against your basic belief in self-reliance?

What would a Dr want from you in exchange for treating you?

This is why the Libertarian ideal has always been confusing.

[Tom]

Mr Barney frank is a fat ugly jew boy bolshevik who is against every think that normal Americans want.How can you take a guy seriously who talks the way and looks the way he does.Is this what is taking over America.If you look at America you see the bolsheviks all over the place and nobody wants to talk about it.From George Soros to the aclu to guys like shumer and woman like finestein.Wke up Amrica because these people move fast and take no prisioners.

[ransom147]

"Personally I strap on my red cape with a giant "l" on the back and fly away to save the day and solve my problems."

do you put on another monocle for eye protection?

[Charles]

But is asking for help not relying on someone else? Is this not against your basic belief in self-reliance?

What would a Dr want from you in exchange for treating you?

This is why the Libertarian ideal has always been confusing.

I think you're mixing libertarianism up with some extreme, non-existent version of objectivism.

[Isaac Bartram]

jhn @ 1:30pm

"Corporatism" when used in connection with fascism has nothing to do with being pro-business.

From the mighty wikipedia:

Corporatism is a system of economic, political, and social organization where corporate groups such as business, ethnic, farmer, labour, military, patronage, or religious groups are joined together into a single governing body in which the different groups are mandated to negotiate with each other to establish policies in the interest of the multiple groups within the body.

...

The word "corporatism" is derived from the Latin word for body, corpus. This meaning was not connected with the specific notion of a business corporation, but rather a general reference to anything collected as a body.

Corporatism has been supported from various proponents, including: absolutists, conservatives, fascists, progressives, reactionaries, socialists and theologians.

Note the absence of "libertarians" from the list of supporters of corporatism given above. 🙂

[SMT2]

Well, I had to hold myself back from laughing when I was asked why I wouldnt "take something to market" in exchange for health care. Pretty funny.

So, if you do rely on others, is the whole tenet of self-reliance simply so others dont get in your way?

Self-reliance is a VERY DEFINITE definition, with zero wiggle room.

[ransom147]

Issac:

of course, the libertarian expects the business sector to support itself. other models expect them to be codependent, or worse.

[SMT2]

I think you're mixing libertarianism up with some extreme, non-existent version of objectivism.

This is a very common response I get from Liberts and Objects alike.

Seems they dont want to be known as extremists.

[Luke]

"We are anti-big business but pro capitalism."

Huh?

As in, "Go for it, Mr. Entrepreneur, but dont get too big, or we will turn our backs on you!"

This is getting out of hand.

[Luke]

Isaac Bartram | August 19, 2009, 2:30pm | #

"Note the absence of "libertarians" from the list of supporters of corporatism given above."

Because no one knows what you stand for, including yourselves?

[ransom147]

Luke:

"We are anti-big business but pro capitalism."

who said that?

[hmm]

What would a Dr want from you in exchange for treating you?

For two wisdom teeth removed, one impacted. The orthodontist wanted two removed Doug firs near his house, a complete landscape work up with lowest cost for material list, and the labor on 4 raised beds with plantings, less materials. I also pruned an entire property and one rental for a last will and testament written up by an attorney (now judge), and traded fire wood and some light tree work for a new head gasket. That is fact.

Self reliance isn't an absolute.

[Luke]

For two wisdom teeth removed, one impacted. The orthodontist wanted two removed Doug firs near his house, a complete landscape work up with lowest cost for material list, and the labor on 4 raised beds with plantings, less materials. I also pruned an entire property and one rental for a last will and testament written up by an attorney (now judge), and traded fire wood and some light tree work for a new head gasket. That is fact.

HAHAHAHAHAA! So, your goal is for all of us to live in some Craigslist-ville Utopia, or basically, return us to a time when money meant nothing, like the Stone Ages?

[hmm]

I answered the question. I didn't advocate a single position in doing so. Of course it's easier to read something into the answer that isn't there in order to forward a belief you already hold.

You're a big fan of boiling arguments down to absolutes aren't you? Isn't that something I'm supposed to be doing as the evil "l" word?

[Luke]

I do not argue, I discuss, and yes, these always come down to absolutes.

I never called Liberts evil, why are being defensive? Perhaps reading into something that isn't there in order to forward a belief you already hold?

[hmm]

I was calling you a retard, but it appears you missed the subtle hint. Absolutes in arguments, you are arguing a conclusion from premises so you do argue, about political and social subjects are more often than not absurd.

It's pretty obcious what position you are holding or where you come from when you start responses off with "HAHAHAHA!" Which will normally get the response of me calling you a retard.

If we're going to ad hom it up, might as well do it overtly.

[Pro Libertate]

About that USA Patriot Act. It was passed by both parties. The Democrats, who control the government, could repeal the entire act right now. But they've done nothing of the kind. Why not?

[Pro Libertate]

One advantage of being a libertarian is that we have our own opinions, not those of our party. While I know that many individual Democrats and Republicans do have opinions of their own, they seem, with distressing frequency, to parrot the opinions of their party leadership and toss aside their own views. Rah, rah team!

[JW]

Wow, this is a spectacle. The Clue Fairy is going to have her work cut out for her today.

There are many places on the Internet where you could actually learn what libertarianism is, rather than wallow around in petulant ignorance and shout at everyone.

My bet is you will leave here without an inkling of desire to truly understand what it is you're talking about. The left seems to be all too insecure to do anything but promote cheap, 1-dimensional caricatures of "everyone else" and become increasingly insular in thought.

[Greg]

Sorry, Pro Lib, if you want a Lib President someday, you will have to vote for the Lib Party. End of story.

[Human]

I am 100% Libertarian, and the main knock on us is that claiming Libertarian is a "cop out."

Obviously, it is to some extent. I mean, look at Pro Liberate, he throws mud on Dems and Repubs in each of his last three posts, and no one else mentioned them!

Any thoughts on this claim?

[Luke]

JW | August 19, 2009, 3:32pm | #

"There are many places on the Internet where you could actually learn what libertarianism is, rather than wallow around in petulant ignorance and shout at everyone."

I thought this might be a place to learn, instead, I get yelled at. Awesome.

[hmm]

HAHAHAHAHAA! So, your goal is for all of us to live in some Craigslist-ville Utopia, or basically, return us to a time when money meant nothing, like the Stone Ages?

I thought this might be a place to learn, instead, I get yelled at. Awesome.

You only get to play victim when you don't act like a dipshit.

[Luke]

hmm | August 19, 2009, 3:58pm | #

"You only get to play victim when you don't act like a dipshit."

I dont want to learn from you, dipshit.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! COMEBACK!

[Pro Libertate]

It's not a cop out. If either major party was anything other than reprehensible in power, maybe we'd have options among their candidates. But with rare exceptions, we don't.

By the way, Cato has published a fairly decent libertarian position on healthcare reform.

[hmm]

So why continue to address me? Why enter a conversation between another poster and I where I answered a question with anecdotal evidence that precisely answered the question posed.

I don't think you want to learn anything. You are looking to justify your own beliefs by looking at others and saying they are just silly. You then try to play the sad sorry pathetic victim when someone calls you on your bullshit trolling, which is pretty pathetic; see Tony for pointers.

[Luke]

hmm | August 19, 2009, 4:05pm | #

"So why continue to address me? Why enter a conversation between another poster and I where I answered a question with anecdotal evidence that precisely answered the question posed."

Sweet, simple, "hmmm"

We were having a discussion. I am sorry I scared you by pointing out all that is wrong with your logic. Run to, wait, no one, because that's not what a Libert does.

Oh wait, apparently you can trade fire wood for a shoulder to cry on.

[hmm]

You didn't even touch on anything close to logical? Where exactly was this assault on the logic of trading goods and services when uninsured or the trade is a better fit for both parties?

I don't think you even understand basic logic since you only discuss and don't engage in arguments, which are fundamentally based in logic.

[hmm]

I'll try not to hurt your yell at you or make you a victim.

I promise.

[hmm]

*hurt your feelings by yelling at you*

[Luke]

Got that, "hmmm"?

You are stumbling over your words.

Do I have you flustered?

I apologize. I can come back tomorrow if you have any strong points.

[hmm]

That's it. It has nothing to do with me watching the market wrap up, typing an email, and keeping this fucking cat from clawing the office furniture. Don't flatter yourself, it's kind of creepy and doesn't do a whole lot for your e-image.

Lets get back to this logic smack down that occurred. Could you go ahead and point out the logical fallacies I made for me? Maybe add something to it to clarify what you're talking about. Lets just hammer out that one point for now. You seem to be dodging it and I'd hate to dilute such a compelling conversation.

[Frank Thomas]

He along with all the other demonazis should be all killed

[Solanum]

I came here for civil discussion, but this is the shit that Fox News and HuffPo boards gave me.

Are you not better than that?

HAHAHAHA!

This makes middle America look SO STUPID! All those idiots who yell even though they have no idea what is going on - HAHAHAHA!

THANK YOU AGAIN BARNEY FRANK!

Way to go JB. Another person who doesnt know history.

Study up on policies enacted by Carter, Reagan, and Clinton, then get back to reality.

You all are too funny.

Constant comedy for the past hour.

No ideas, just negativity - join the libertarians!

*waves broom at smthorpe*

Off with you, troll. Go on. Shoo, shoo.

[Tulpa]

This is where the Frankites are coming from (look at the 12:11pm comment)

[Tulpa]

This place also links directly here and appears leftish.

[JW]

Damn. I should have bet real money.

All sound and bluster. Not one real idea among any of the carpetbaggers; just self-rationalizing heckles. And these are the types running the country, or at least voting for them.

We are SO screwed.

[debt relief]

awesome post i loved it. i love what he said to her

[freethk]

The real assholes here are the idiots that inject Hitler into a discussion about American healthcare. They're not serious about having any sort of reasoned discussion, not interested in hearing their elected leaders give answers,they simply want to spew hatred and venom at their opponents.

[freethk]

I think it's awesome too. I'm not a big fan of Franks, but he scored point in my book by giving it back to these idiots that make us all look bad.

The other thing that doesn't make sense is how he's a fascist. Fascism was started by Mussolini as a movement AGAINST communism/socialism. It's a dictator who victimizes his people using extreme right-wing ideology. So, following the logic, is Obama trying to provide access to healcare for millions of people who don't have it so that he can turn around and victimize them with his extreme, right-wing ideas. Healthier victims I suppose.

[Pro Libertate]

freethk,

Mussolini started out as a socialist. The Nazi party for some years had a fairly hefty socialist agenda. It's important to realize that both Hitler and Mussolini weren't so much ideologues as people who wanted absolute power. Neither was particularly consistent on economics or politics. I will note, however, that they weren't anti-socialism so much as they were opposed to parties that weren't theirs. Both Hitler and Mussolini took regular shots at the bourgeois class, which is not a characteristic of the modern right.

I'm not sure what's really supposed to be rightwing about fascism. Is it the nationalism? I don't think nationalism is necessarily a rightwing feature--seems like most political movements have some nationalist components. Certainly, fascism was never about anything conservative, because Mussolini and Hitler both made mincemeat of much of their countries' status quo.

[mike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3zo7zjYk2E

I strongly believe we need a federal reserve audit. The recent stock market action suggests to me the federal reserve is intervening in a free and open market. I believe the biggest beneficiary of this TRILLION DOLLAR stock market move in a couple of weeks was Goldman Sachs. Goldman Sachs sells derivatives in our equity markets its apparent that Goldman Sachs Has Total Control Over our stock market using the unlimited capital available from the federal reserve. I believe Goldman Sachs doesn't have the best interest of our markets. They are misusing the federal reserve to manipulate the stock market and making huge 100 BILLION DOLLAR profits THIS IS ILLEGAL people expect our government to obey the laws just like citizen. Also this manipulation without regards for cost continues to put our government and the people more and more in debt

JUST THE FACT GOLDMAN SACHS HAS HAD SUCH IMPOSSIBLE SUCCESS AT TRADING IS ALL THE PROOF OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO KNOW TO PROVE MANIPULATION!!!!!!

AUDIT THE FEDERAL RESERVE

[Tony]

One advantage of being a libertarian is that we have our own opinions, not those of our party. While I know that many individual Democrats and Republicans do have opinions of their own, they seem, with distressing frequency, to parrot the opinions of their party leadership and toss aside their own views. Rah, rah team!

Yeah libertarians are such rugged individualists who just happen to have the same dogmatic opinions about everything.

I don't love Democrats but I do believe they're the only thing standing between the Republicans and the end of modern civilization.

[Pro Libertate]

When you realize that the parties are two sides of the same coin, you will be ready to leave this place, Grasshopper.

Case in point: How are the Democrats doing in repealing USA Patriot?

[statism_sux]

I really hate this guy. Not because he is a pole-smoking douchebag whose mouth has this weird, hollowed out shape on one side most likely left there by the impression of the thousands of cocks he must have sucked in his long and flamboyant career. No, that would be wrong, so I would never, ever say that. That would be homophobic.

[g4m3th30ry]

I don't love Democrats but I do believe they're the only thing standing between the Republicans and the end of modern civilization.

& I'm sure believing this helps you sleep at night as you can continue your righteous cause to save all of modern civilization by passing laws that are for our own good.

Thank you again for point out how slavery isn't all that bad when the ends have a moral good in mind. So long as your guys get to define moral goods of course.

[Roark33]

Some unbiased news reporter should find out if she is plant. I think old Barney was way to well rehearsed and the women didn't look wacky enough. Don't let this story die. This is wag the dog. And I support the Dems.

[James Anderson Merritt]

My own rep, Sam Farr, from California's Monterey Bay, is in the process of holding several contentious, well-attended town hall meetings around his district. I give him props for hosting the events, but he also seems dismissive of and combative (in an passive-aggressive sort of way) with those he assesses as wing-nuts. He did say in no uncertain terms that he HAS read the health care bills, such as currently exist in full. It is hard to believe that, given the hundreds of pages of impenetrable "legislatorese" contained in the bills, but that's what he said; I heard it via a live radio broadcast of the meeting held in my town.

[????????]

Franks is a pervert,, pure and simple... one has to wonder how many other congresman enjoy taking showers with him in the congresional gym..

[Russ 2000]

Barney Frank doesn't give a shit what anyone else thinks. That's refreshing behavior in a media-saturated world.

It's also a reprehensible attitude for an elected representative.

[Outsiderfun]

As an Irishman who enjoys watching the current healthcare debate, I was thoroughly entertained by the Frank vs Alien exchange. I for one don't think that healthcare reform will ever pass in the States, we have it in Ireland, and for all it's worts, our system or any "managed" system will not work in the US. But I love the idea of Dealth Panels (which fits into my right-wing philosophy, eg capital punishment, rationed care - I don't want to reward people for their lifestyles - obesity, alcoholism, etc..)..so keep the entertainment coming, I get tired of Fox news sometimes!

[Laughing]

I just think it is about time someone took the astroturf protesters behind a shed and beat them senseless with a wooden stick. As a jew i find in gut wrenching that they would compare health care reform to one of the most vile men in all of humanity.

[MarkusR]

I recommend watching the entire townhall meeting, if you can find it. It re-ran on CSPAN on Thursday. I caught at least the last 45 minutes of it, and practically all the questions came from people who oppose the bill.

Even if you think that he is a gay pervert, a commie who wants to subjugate Americans into a totalitarian commune, he is worth a listening.

Because he gives answers to each of the questions.

[Tostitos]

I'm not a big fan of Barney Frank but I think that was awesome. Too many politicians are too chickenshit to directly engage retarded accusations. It also took moxie to vote against the law banning military funeral protesting on first amendment grounds.