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Texas to Secede...from Gas Tax?
The Reason Foundation's Bob Poole cheers proposed legislation from Texas's Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison to allow keep its own gas tax money and opt out of the federal Highway Trust Fund, using its own money for its own road infrastructure needs. Some reasons:
A key rationale for devolution is that the funding approach developed to build the Interstate system is now obsolete. That approach transfers large sums from larger and fast-growing states to smaller and slower-growing states. And states like Texas end up subsidizing other states. That is exactly backwards of what a real user-fee system would do—which is to generate and spend large sums in the places with huge problems of congestion and insufficient highway capacity. A side benefit of devolution would be the elimination of tons of pork, as members of Congress would no longer be able to earmark pet projects that are political winners but economic losers.
But there are some potential hazards to devolution as well on "e pluribus unum" grounds, Poole notes:
The downside is that the Interstate system is critically important to interstate commerce, and the federal government has a constitutional responsibility to ensure that states do not erect barriers to interstate commerce....But this doesn’t have to be an either/or proposition. Congress could enact standards for the Interstate system as a condition of approving devolution—things like nationally inter-operable electronic toll collection, pavement quality, bridge clearance heights, etc.—that states would be required to adhere to.
The Austin American Statesman with some details about the proposed S. 903. For more recent blogging on infrastructure issues, see this which implies that our nation's bridges aren't in as shabby shape as you might be lead to believe.
|4.29.09 @ 12:40PM|#
Does that mean Texas could lower the drinking age without losing its highway funds?
T|4.29.09 @ 12:44PM|#
Way to pander to the home front, Kay. This gubernatorial
election is gonna be fun.
Y'all do realize that Kay could give a shit if this actually
passes, right? Just the attempt will boost her stock when she runs
for Governor next year.
|4.29.09 @ 12:53PM|#
The downside is that the Interstate system is critically
important to interstate commerce, and the federal government has a
constitutional responsibility to ensure that states do not erect
barriers to interstate commerce.
I don't think the Interstate Commerce Clause has even been read to
impose requirements on state roadbuilding, nor could it (honestly).
It is meant to preempt the states from imposing legal restrictions
on commerce, not failing to keep their blacktop smooth and
well-painted.
|4.29.09 @ 12:58PM|#
It seems to me that if Texas is paying in more than it gets back, then opting out will give them even more money to build roads, resulting in better highways than now.
|4.29.09 @ 12:59PM|#
The Interstate system has long been used (hi, Mr. Reagan!) as a bludgeon to beat states into submission. Get rid of its power.
Fair and Ballast|4.29.09 @ 1:04PM|#
"For more recent blogging on infrastructure issues, see this
which implies that our nation's bridges aren't in as shabby shape
as you might be lead to believe."
Obama fixed them. He's the best. Ever.
VM (is it too early to start d|4.29.09 @ 1:17PM|#
Epi - plus, ask our friends at "the other site" what they feel
about [stage whisper] INTERSTATE COMMERCE [/sw]
Nick - it sure does. It sure does.
|4.29.09 @ 1:24PM|#
"The Interstate system has long been used (hi, Mr. Reagan!) as a
bludgeon to beat states into submission. Get rid of its
power."
I assume you are talking about the 21 year old drinking age. Don't
forget the 55 mph speed limit bludgened on us by Ford and
Carter.
|4.29.09 @ 1:26PM|#
things like nationally inter-operable electronic toll
collection
Fuckin' awesome!
|4.29.09 @ 1:30PM|#
Don't forget the 55 mph speed limit bludgeoned on us by Ford
and Carter.
"Sure it might save a few lives, but MILLIONS will be late!"
|4.29.09 @ 1:32PM|#
things like nationally inter-operable electronic toll
collection
Fuckin' awesome!
Until your sargasm ;-), I never really thought about it... Are
there interstate highways with tolls? We don't have such a thing in
The Bluegrass State. (Are the Pennsylvania and New Jersey
Turnpikes, for example, interstate highways paid for with national
highway funds?)
VM|4.29.09 @ 1:36PM|#
Naga - that's good enough to hide it from gov't agents!
(now go to your room. Mr. Steven Crane shall appear shortly,
dressed in his clown outfit, to dispense your corporal
punishment)
"Don't forget the 55 mph speed limit bludgened on us by Ford and
Carter."
QFT!
|4.29.09 @ 1:38PM|#
Since intrastate non-commerce in such things as wheat and marijuana are legally considered part of INTERstate commerce, by the Wickard and Raich decisions, respectively, is it at all possible that "Opting Out" of the federal interstate highway system would be seen as having a negative effect on interstate commerce, and therefore as something that the federal government could properly regulate (in their apparently favorite way: to prohibit)?
|4.29.09 @ 1:44PM|#
Are there interstate highways with tolls?
Stop at Stuckey's
Pecan Log Roll
Says it's an interstate
But there's still a
toll
Burma Shave
|4.29.09 @ 1:45PM|#
Are there interstate highways with tolls?
The Indiana Australia Toll Road (aka Interstate 80) is
the one which pops immediately to mind.
Also Interstate 87, which runs north from New York City. I think I
saw not long ago that the portion on which tolls are collected has
been extended since I lived in Lake George many many moons ago.
|4.29.09 @ 1:52PM|#
The interstate in Oklahoma has a toll. Its free to enter the state, but you gotta pay to leave.
mark|4.29.09 @ 1:54PM|#
But this doesn't have to be an either/or proposition.
Congress could enact standards for the Interstate system as a
condition of approving devolution
A condition for approving devolution? You can take your conditions
and shove them, Congress!
Go TX. Just sucks that the people running for gov are just
posturing and don't actually believe in the 10th Amendment or
anything...
|4.29.09 @ 1:54PM|#
Interstate toll roads sort explode the whole gas tax as user fee construction. One or the other, fuckers.
|4.29.09 @ 2:01PM|#
I assume you are talking about the 21 year old drinking age.
Don't forget the 55 mph speed limit bludgened on us by Ford and
Carter.
Don't forget about laws requiring:
-.08 BAC
-license suspension for anyone under 21 with .02+ BAC
-license suspension for persons not paying child support
robc|4.29.09 @ 2:02PM|#
We don't have such a thing in The Bluegrass
State.
I-65 was at one time. In my lifetime. But I dont really remember. I
think it ended about '73 or '74.
robc|4.29.09 @ 2:04PM|#
The Kentucky Turnpike was a toll road in the state of
Kentucky. It was signed with a distinctive sign featuring a
cardinal, the state bird of Kentucky.
It ran from the outskirts of Louisville to Elizabethtown. Unlike
most states, Kentucky law requires that tolls be removed when the
original construction bonds are paid off. The road was thus the
first of the state's extensive system of toll roads to be made a
freeway. Unlike the other roads, which maintain their separate
names when becoming toll-free, the Kentucky Turnpike signs were
removed and the road today is simply signed as a part of Interstate
65. It is today almost impossible to find any traces of its former
toll status; even the old trumpet interchanges characteristic of
toll roads have been removed and replaced with diamond interchanges
characteristic of freeways.
Thank you wikipedia, although you failed to mention the date it
changed over.
|4.29.09 @ 2:08PM|#
robc,
Interesting. We have tolls all over Western KY, but they are all
state roads.
robc|4.29.09 @ 2:12PM|#
SF,
I remember paying tolls on the Bluegrass Parkway - wiki says they
went away in 1991.
If the people in the western part would get off their ass and get
the bonds paid off, the tolls will go away.
|4.29.09 @ 2:15PM|#
robc,
If the eastern part wasn't constantly draining our tax dollars for
tarpaper shack repair maybe we could afford to. ;-P
(Not that you aren't in a negative tax area as well.)
robc|4.29.09 @ 2:15PM|#
SF,
Western KY Parkway is part of the "future I-69".
Both the Natcher and Audubon have had tolls removed.
robc|4.29.09 @ 2:16PM|#
SF,
I meant they need to drive more. The tolls pay off the bonds. But,
they have 2 of there 3 parkways paid off, so they are making
progress.
|4.29.09 @ 2:30PM|#
I have been on the Audubon about three hundred trillion times. Straight and flat. Perfect road to get a vehicular BJ on.
Kolohe|4.29.09 @ 2:35PM|#
The downside is that the Interstate system is critically important to interstate commerce, and the federal government has a constitutional responsibility to ensure that states do not erect barriers to interstate commerce....But this doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. Congress could enact standards for the Interstate system as a condition of approving devolution-things like nationally inter-operable electronic toll collection, pavement quality, bridge clearance heights, etc.-that states would be required to adhere to.
I am for the interstate highway system and against many things
Poole currently proposes wrt transportation policy, but this
reasoning (so to speak) is bizarre.
'Erecting barriers' would be just that - installing border crossing
checkpoints where one would have to pay some sort of tarriff.
Reducing the efficiency of interstate commerce through lack of
standardization in transport may not be (is likely not) good
policy, but it's hardly 'erecting barriers'. This is similar to
budget logic where a reduction in an increase is a 'cut'.
I suppose you could argue that enacting standards for the highway
system could be contrued under the authority to 'fix the Standard
of Weights and Measures' but that's a pretty big stretch as
well.
|4.29.09 @ 2:42PM|#
Perfect road to get a vehicular BJ on.
A truly good driver can receive one on any road, even backwoods New
England twist fests.
|4.29.09 @ 2:45PM|#
Well, I'm sure your boyfriend was just more experienced at it than my girlfriend.
|4.29.09 @ 2:50PM|#
I have been on the Audubon about three hundred trillion
times. Straight and flat. Perfect road to get a vehicular BJ
on.
The roads in Louisiana would explain the locals tendency to be
missing teeth...and the curious way they walk.
|4.29.09 @ 3:01PM|#
Are there interstate highways with tolls?
I-95 in Delaware. You're in the state for 15 minutes (assuming
there aren't massive backups at the troll plazas) and you're out 5
bucks. Those troll plazas aren't going to pay for themselves, ya
know!
That's a big ol' fuck you going out to Delaware.
|4.29.09 @ 3:17PM|#
A truly good driver can receive one on any road, even
backwoods New England twist fests.
I can assure you, both members of the team need to have mad skillz
to avoid unfortunateness.
|4.29.09 @ 3:22PM|#
Well, I'm sure your boyfriend was just more experienced at
it than my girlfriend.
It was your girlfriend.
VM|4.29.09 @ 3:46PM|#
jeez, Nutrisweet.
tons are toll roads. Ohio Turnpike. Indiana Toll road (aka 80/90).
NY state Thruway.
Illinois tri state tollway. PA...
sections of I 95...
etc. as everybody else has pointed out. I'm just unnecessarily
piling on
*evil grin*
|4.29.09 @ 3:52PM|#
Those troll plazas aren't going to pay for
themselves, ya know!
Sweet, sweet RC'z Law.
|4.29.09 @ 3:57PM|#
"I'll be back for you, shiteyes."
(There are only so many toll booth jokes, people.)
|4.29.09 @ 3:59PM|#
Y'all do realize that states have different weight standards for tractor trailers? Michigan's is much higher than most (all?) and that fact is constantly thrown up in debate when we bitch (rightfully) about the state of our roads.
VM|4.29.09 @ 4:19PM|#
Actually, Sugar, that's just a story mommie and daddie told
you.
*pulls up chair*
Now we need to tell you the real story. About Epi and the Noam
Chomsky Blow Up doll, some gauze, and a whole bunch of
marbles...
ChiSailor|4.29.09 @ 4:36PM|#
"I suppose you could argue that enacting standards for the
highway system could be contrued under the authority to 'fix the
Standard of Weights and Measures' but that's a pretty big stretch
as well."
One requirement is for clearance heights of min.16' on all
expressways (some exceptions within cities where there is a mapped
way around that fits clearance) due to military equipment clearance
requirements - specifically ICBMs on trailers. That's the sort of
requirement that would get upheld in court - directly related to
federal purview of national defense.
|4.29.09 @ 4:53PM|#
Michigan has such a high GVW limit for trucks so the locals can take their wives with them.
Kolohe|4.29.09 @ 4:55PM|#
directly related to federal purview of national
defense.
Makes sense. Esp considering the ostensible purpose of the
interstate system was national defense, which pretty much leads to
the federal government building freeways wherever and however it
wants.
T|4.29.09 @ 5:02PM|#
Michigan has such a high GVW limit for trucks so the locals
can take their wives with them.
Savage, bb, just brutal. I'm forwarding that comment to my bud in
Ferndale.
LarryA|4.29.09 @ 5:43PM|#
A side benefit of devolution would be the elimination of
tons of pork, as members of Congress would no longer be able to
earmark pet projects that are political winners but economic
losers.
Right. Let the members of the Texas Legislature have a turn.
|4.29.09 @ 9:02PM|#
Virginia had toll roads until the '90s. I think a lawsuit was
involved.
I'm not a fan of tolls. Currently the process of collecting the
money that pays for the roads is pretty cheap. Gas vendors collect
a tax and pass it to the government. To collect the money in a toll
system, you need fairly expensive systems to read the RFID tag on
the car, photo the license plate, and process the transaction. The
newish EZ-Pass high speed reader makes toll collection real easy
and could easily be deployed anywhere without slowing down traffic.
It's just a question of where to deploy to maxamize the revenue. At
every exit, or X number of miles? That would be expensive to setup
and maintain. Tolls would be high. I don't think it will be a value
from the customer's perspective. But I misuse the word customer
since customers usually have choice where they shop. The all toll
system is just a more expensive way of collecting the gas tax.
MJ|4.29.09 @ 10:15PM|#
The New York State Thruway tolls can get pretty hefty if you drive all the way across the State on I-90. If memory serves, it can get up around $30.
In Case You Missed It|4.30.09 @ 10:08AM|#
Just FYI - The drinking age (Texas is 21) is set in state law,
not federal law (although a state not enforcing the minimum age
would be subjected to a ten percent decrease in its annual federal
highway apportionment). This bill would NOT change this because it
would specifically allow the Secretary of Transportation to
determine which safety requirements should continue (truck size and
weight, drinking age etc.) in states that opt out.
http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_files/HighwayFairnessandReformActof2009.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_Act
Additionally under current law, each state sets its own speed limit
- there is no federal speed limit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law
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