Introversion Isn't Obama's Problem, His Inability To Tell the Truth Is

Given the disaster his presidency has become, you can't blame the guy for wanting some alone time.

It never fails. Whenever a president’s approval ratings tank, out come the deep think pieces about how the president’s personality flaws explain his political dilemma and ours.

Vanity Fair's Todd Purdum has the latest entry with a 3,000 word thumbsucker titled “Obama the Loner: The Trouble with the President's Self-Reliant, Closed-Off Attitude.”

President Obama, it seems, doesn't enjoy schmoozing, small talk and pressing the flesh. And that, according to Purdum, has something to do with why Americans have soured on his scandal-wracked, power-abusing, blunder-prone presidency.

Obama’s “resolute solitude — his isolation and alienation” from other Washington players — is “his greatest weakness,” Purdum argues.

Purdum's not the first to lay this charge. The New York Times' Maureen Dowd periodically wails that Obama acts like “President Spock” instead of being our “feeler-in-chief.” And, “he's an introvert,” says Game Change author John Heilemann, and that's why he's in trouble.

It’s a common trope — and as a congenital introvert, I’m sick of it. Obama is a terrible president, but, contra Purdum, that’s got nothing to do with his “penchant for solitude.” Extroverts: You’re not gonna hang this on us!

As Jonathan Rauch explained in his classic 2003 Atlantic article, “Caring for Your Introvert,” introverts are not necessarily antisocial or misanthropic -- we're people who are wired to enjoy solitude and need it to recharge after social interaction.

And, dammit, we’re “among the most misunderstood and aggrieved groups in America.” Introversion, Rauch wrote, is “not a choice. It's not a lifestyle. It's an orientation.”

In that light, Purdum’s argument is so incoherent and self-contradictory, it’s hard not to suspect him of rank “lonerphobia.”

Obama’s “go-it-alone approach,” Purdum claims, “insulate[s] him from engagement in the management of his own administration.”

He asks, “were Obama’s aides too afraid to tell him” about tapping Angela Merkel’s cellphone or the problems with healthcare.gov?

Er, probably not, given that, several paragraphs later, Purdum tells us “no one in Washington is afraid of Obama.” (Because he’s not chummy enough?)

Purdum lacks a single convincing example of what victories more backslapping, jawboning and congressional “beer summits” would have delivered to the president.

When you find yourself writing sentences like, “it’s hard to imagine that Obama did not do himself at least some real harm in September by abruptly canceling the annual congressional picnic at the White House,” it might be time to reevaluate your argument.

The notion that presidents need to be chirpy and chatty as a drive-time morning DJ is a distinctly modern one — and it’s not clear it’s led to better presidents.

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  • ChrisO||

    All those pictures of Obama posing and preening make me gag. He's really quite fond of himself.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Ditto.

  • Almanian!||

    We know you're quite fond of yourself. Your constant yammering about your "date nights" with yourself kind of clued us in....

    *barf*

  • Swiss Servator, Original Gnome||

    Speaking as a guy who's really
    Got it going on,
    It's only natural,
    It's only me.
    Take it from a fella
    Who's been 'round the block
    So many times he's knows the only parking spot that's free.
    It's only me.
    You can say I've tried everything
    I'd save on the wedding ring
    Who knows me half as well as me?
    I'm not anti-social
    And it's nothing that's reproachful
    It's just natural,
    It's only me.
    I can't think of anybody else I'd rather
    Spend some one on one time with,
    It's not that hard to see,
    It's only me.
    I'm the me in monogamy
    I'm not asking a lot of me
    I give me R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
    And if your heart is broken
    You can just do what you do best
    You can just do what you do,
    When your heart is broken
    Trust in the one who loves you
    Never put others above you
    I thought I was using me
    To get to you
    But this is true.
    I'm natural, it's only me.
    They say you'll never love another
    'Til you love yourself,
    Well, brother I'm in love with everyone I see.
    It's only me.
    You could say I've tried every thing
    I'd save on the wedding ring
    Who knows me half as well as me?
    I'm the me in monogamy
    I'm not asking a lot of me
    I give me R-E-S-P-E-C-T

  • WTF||

    Gene Healy is clearly a racist.

  • Restoras||

    And a teathuglican

  • RightNut||

    And a teathuglican

    Thats very 2012. I think the correct nomenclature in 2013 is Tealiban.

  • WTF||

    I thought it was Teafucking Ratbaggers.

  • RightNut||

    That's 2011, get with the times dude.

  • Carolynp||

    You're all wrong. It's teahadist.

  • RightNut||

    Purdum tells us “no one in Washington is afraid of Obama.”

    This strikes me as a strange notion. I believe Obama has several personal flaws that make him a terrible president, with his dishonesty being the worst. However, the fact people do not cower in fear of Obama's approach is most certainly not a flaw.

  • John||

    I think it means politically. The President does need to be able to get people to follow him out of fear of not doing so being politically harmful. At this point telling Obama to go fuck himself has no political downside and thus Obama is incapable of functioning as President.

  • RightNut||

    I get that, but don't you think Obama would be a worse president if he was dishonest and aggressive?

  • Almanian!||

    So Rahm Emmanual? Yeah.

  • RightNut||

    Ya that is who I was thinking of.

    You win a prize!

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    So, the revisionism has begun. If the American People tire of His Wonderfulness, it can't possibly be because he's an indifferently skilled political hack whose lies have caught up with him. It MUST be because his outward persona makes some of the Unwashed Peasants uncomfortable. It CAN'T be because his signature legislation has turned into a Mongolian Clusterf*ck, it must be because he's (Black, Intellectual, Introspective, too smart….).

  • Doctor Whom||

    Of course. Obama ha sempre ragione.

  • Restoras||

    Why do you hate Mongolians, Schofield Kid?

  • Almanian!||

    Fucking Mongorians break down my shitty warrr!

  • Loki||

    a Mongolian Clusterf*ck

    At first I read that as "Mongoloid Clusterf*ck."

    "Genghis Kahn was a Mongolian, not to be confused with Mongoloid, such as the actor Nicolas Cage."

  • sjl2112||

    Revisionism and dissonance-reducing behavior amongst the elite liberal chattering class.

    They (and Purdum is a great avatar for them) are heavily invested psychologically in this empty suit. Now that his obvious flaws are on full display, they must begin the long trek of breaking free politically and of course psychologically. This article is just beginning.

    Of course, their core "Truths" - statism, elitism, central planning - must be protected in the process. The Messenger must be to blame. If only he were more engaging and sociable.....

    They will soon alight upon another Messenger in time for 2016.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    simply put, Obama is a terrible president

    You're just too dumb to comprehend His awesomeness, Gene.

  • ChrisO||

    The only thing Obama has ever done successfully is campaign for election. He's never operated a business. He was, at best, a mediocre legislator. He never really even practiced law in the regular sense. Is it any surprise that he's a nothingburger of a president? It has nothing to do with him being an introvert, which I question, anyway.

  • wareagle||

    a nothingburger with a lot of mustard, the kind of guy who in baseball, would have made Reggie Jackson seem like the picture of humility. And Reggie at least had numbers to point toward.

  • ||

    And to say *he* campaigned successfully is pretty boastful. His most significant opponent was from his own party and on his way to the White House.

  • blcartwright||

    if you are referring to HRC, recall that in 2008 she won almost all the primaries (where there were secret ballots) but Obama likewise swept almost all the caucus states, where people vote publicly in small groups.

    IMHO, his nomination was secured through voter intimidation in the caucii.

  • kinnath||

    Obama is not an introvert. He is a raging narcissist who hates dealing with underlings.

  • CatoTheElder||

    ^ THIS.

  • Drake||

    If only some of them could appreciate his towering intellect...

  • UnCivilServant||

    A tower of shit is still shit.

  • Pelosi's Rabbit||

    Anyone who thinks Obama is an introvert is completely fucktarded and is not to be trusted around children or open flames.

  • Carolynp||

    And it worries me if they work on the second floor. No windows for these boneheads.

  • ||

    Oh so much, ^this.

  • Lord Humungus||

    As much as I hated his re-election, the current Obamacare fuck-ups have almost been worth it for the laffs.

  • Tim||

    almost.

  • RightNut||

    His reelection might have been a blessing in disguise. If Romney had won the Democrats could pass off all the problems with Obamacare by claiming a Republican President was actively undermining the law. With Obama in office it's impossible for the Democrats to argue this is someone else's fault.

  • R C Dean||

    If (which is vanishingly unlikely), the Repubs can turn their defeat in 2012 into a strategic withdrawal that lays a successful trap inflicting massive, generational damage on the Dems, then maybe it will have been worth it.

    But with the Establishment Repubs feeling newly energized by their proven ability to undermine Tea Party Repub candidates, I doubt they will pull it off, as their instinct is to tinker and tweak without lifting their snouts from the trough.

  • RightNut||

    Eh, I feel the gap between the "Establishment Republicans" and the tea party is actually smaller than people think. The major difference seems to be the Tea Party repubs are more principled well the establishment is more pragmatic, in that they want to win elections more than change policy. If the tea party proves it can win then the establishment repubs will support them.

    IE, a President Paul will have the backing of the entire party.

  • BakedPenguin||

    While I agree with you to an extent, if he were to start restricting the free shit they can give their buddies, there would be pushback.

  • Bobarian||

    ^THISX100^10

  • Procrastinatus||

    Yes. Plus the Tea Party Republicans in my state (Arkansas) who ousted longtime ruling Dems would freak if the Farm Bill subsidies got cut. So they're not THAT principled. Apparently them millionaire farmers here gots to eat, too.

  • RightNut||

    The American Gothic image of small farmers fighting the harsh elements to grow their crops is engraved in every American child's head at birth.

    Old McDonald had a.....

  • ||

    Another Arkansas? I think that's 3 now. Silent majority!

  • Carolynp||

    I again posit the tea party is actually a branch of the libertarian party. Atheists/agnostics represent around 9 percent of the electorate in general. That is just higher than the amount libertarians usually take in elections. I further posit it is in the best interest of the libertarian party to attempt in roads with theists.

  • Redmanfms||

    I further posit it is in the best interest of the libertarian party to attempt in roads with theists.

    Pigheaded egomaniacal dipshits like Sevo (and the shear number of those like him who exist) make that nearly impossible.

    KULTUR WAR is real and is practiced every bit as vociferously and viciously by the "cosmos" as it is by the socons.

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    Repost from AM links - Americans want free stuff, not Progressivism, so Progs have no choice but to lie to get their way.

    Behind Obama’s lie, our own immaturity

  • Almanian!||

    It is the most far-reaching piece of social policy since the Great Society, and yet, most Americans are largely unaffected by it.

    Whoa! Speaking of "willfully ignorant"...

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    Most people aren't knowingly impacted because the employer mandate was illegally pushed off a year. Just wait until that deadline hits.

    I do love how their program, to insure the uninsured, winds up costing more people insurance than those who got insurance, and their defense is merely that it is a small pct of the population that got screwed.

  • BakedPenguin||

    and self-contradictory. "It's the most far-reaching legislation that won't affect anyone." WTF?

  • ||

    Yet... Just wait.

  • Carolynp||

    I'd like to know where they're coming up with the 5 percent number. Palin questioned Lauer when he brought it up, but he never answered. Where is the 5 percent of citizens coming from? Anyone?

  • Jurgis Rudkus||

    I think the amount of Americans insured by individual, not group, coverage could be in that range.

  • Sevo||

    From the link:
    "This gets to one of the many ironies of Obamacare. It is the most far-reaching piece of social policy since the Great Society, and yet, most Americans are largely unaffected by it."

    'Scuse me? There are some who are affected such as to get a bit (or a lot) of a free ride, but there are many more who are affected right in the wallet.
    And then there are those who are affected in that 'Hey, your policy is dead! You get to go shopping for insurance!'

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Let's keep these Lying For Justice justifications in mind the next time a progressive urges us to adopt the latest Urgently Needed Legislation. Ask yourselves what "side-effects" of the legislation they know about but are willfully concealing because the public "can't handle the truth."

    And whenever they babble about having a "conversation" about how we MUST adopt their latest brain-fart, tell them "why should I converse with someone who has no trouble with lying to get their way? How can I trust you to be honest in your conversation?"

  • Auric Demonocles||

    If Obama was really an introvert, he would never have gotten into politics. Not because he would be antisocial, but because he would find it far too exhausting to be in the spotlight all the time. He's not an introvert, he's a narcissist (which you can pretty much assume for every politician).

  • Sevo||

    Auric Demonocles|11.12.13 @ 12:46PM|#
    "If Obama was really an introvert, he would never have gotten into politics."

    Not sure. Nixon was an introvert. And a miserable prez.
    The lure of power is pretty strong. And this book ( The Amateur http://www.amazon.com/Amateur-.....y+ed+klein ) makes the case that Michelle was more than a little motive.

  • Libertarius||

    Like all collectivists, Obama is a social parasite who is hopelessly dependent on others; what others think, what others feel, what he thinks others should think or feel, is the guiding star of his existence.

    It is barfworthy to see these leftoids try to describe Barry as an independent, stoic, John Wayne kind of character. That'll be the day.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Obama isn't an introvert - that's nonsense. He's just hasn't developed the necessary negotiating skills that most politicians either are born with or work to hone. He doesn't know what he doesn't know because he doesn't value those skills and thinks he's above them.

    He's arrogant and ignorant.

  • ChrisO||

    That's because Obama never did any actual governing.

    He was a back-bencher who did nothing of note in the Illinois legislature and immediately started running for president once he was elected to the U.S. Senate.

    Dirty election tricks and a moderate talent for reading prepared speeches are literally the only two skills the man has ever shown.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "He was a back-bencher who did nothing of note in the Illinois legislature"

    So...just like Lincoln?

  • Tony||

    There's passing healthcare reform after a century of trying and killing the world's most wanted terrorist, among about 500 other accomplishments you've never bothered to pay attention to. But that's since he became president. Evidently it's still the right time to be bitching about his lack of qualifications for becoming president.

  • Harvard||

    I've been wondering where you've been.

  • Gilbert Martin||

    "and killing the world's most wanted terrorist, "

    Something he had no more to do with than a rooster's crowing making the sun rise in the east each morning.

    The military did the job. They just happended to find the terrorist while Obama's butt was parked in the Oval office.

    Obama added absolutely nothing of value to the process.

  • Tony||

    Imagine he had an (R) after his name... how much credit does he get now?

  • Redmanfms||

    Imagine he had an (R) after his name... how much credit does he get now?

    Really? That's the best you've got?

  • OneOut||

    "There's passing healthcare reform"

    I had a car wreck the other day but I hardly call that an accomplishment.

  • ||

    ChrisO was talking about Obama's accomplishments prior to becoming president.

    Which there aren't many of.

  • Tony||

    You can't even see the bridge that water is under anymore.

  • Redmanfms||

    You can't even see the bridge that water is under anymore.

    Of course you didn't attempt to refute the point by offering counter-factuals. Why? Is it because he's right?

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    Secretly killing bin laden was an undeniable accomplishment. So is being the first black prez... but other than that what else did he do? Obama didn't even keep the simplest of his promises

  • JEP||

    Usually introverts are considered socially awkward. I hadn't thought that Obama could be an extrovert that's social awkward because he's narcissistic and arrogant...

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    that is sort of a stereotype, like saying extroverts can't be knowledgeable/book-smart because they spend all their time partying, talking etc.

  • JidaKida||

    I dont think Rodman Jones is going to like that.

    www.Privacy-Road.tk

  • waffles||

    If Barack Obama is the Woodrow Wilson of our age then who will be our Calvin Coolidge?

    Also why do we always compare our presidents to past ones? It seems like too small a set to make really accurate anything out of nothing.

  • ChrisO||

    It's tough to evaluate a person's performance without some reference point. I don't agree that 43 comparators over 220 years is too small a sample in this instance. That's plenty of evidence to draw from.

  • Bardas Phocas||

    Other options are:
    Roman Emperors
    French Kings
    Serial Killers
    Characters on Cereal Boxes

  • Bobarian||

    So... BO is just like Count Chocula?

  • Loki||

    RACIST!!!1!!!!!111!!!!!

  • ||

    Wow. Apologists for a cult of personality. Can these people even hear themselves?

  • Raven Nation||

    Time did a cover story last (?) year asking "Is the Presidency too big for one man?" I think they ran a similar story during the Carter presidency although not, IIRC, from 1981-2009.

  • ChrisO||

    That Tetrarchy thing worked out so well for the Roman Empire...

  • OldMexican||

    Vanity Fair's


    Stop. Everything.

    Todd Purdum has the latest entry with a 3,000 word thumbsucker titled "Obama the Loner: The Trouble with the President's Self-Reliant, Closed-Off Attitude."[...]

    Obama's "resolute solitude — his isolation and alienation" from other Washington players — is "his greatest weakness," Purdum argues.


    Surrounding yourself with yes-men and sycophants does tend to isolate you from the rest of humanity... and reality.

  • Brian||

    Republicans should just loop the following during the next election:

    "You gave democrats the house, the senate, and the presidency. What did they give you in return? Obamacare.

    Is that the best way the government could change to improve your life?"

  • Loki||

    introverts are not necessarily antisocial or misanthropic

    Although some of us such, such as myself, actually are.

  • wareagle||

    it's not introversion, it's hubris. Period.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    This is just another Berthold Brechtian rants about how if only the government could dissolve the people and elect a new one we'd have a better country.

  • ||

    There is nothing about Obama that informs me he is smart. Schooling credentials are meaningless in the affirmative action age, especially when the beneficiary has done absolutely nothing to substantiate it (harvard law review, wrote absolutely nothing).
    America truly recieved an affirmative action president, unfortunately. Americans must start asking what else has this candidate done outside of politics and education.

  • wadair||

    America truly recieved an affirmative action president, unfortunately.

    This is a very good point. Racists and bigots will forever have Obama as an example of why blacks should not be president. It's a shame. This guy is Nixon, Carter and Wilson together.

  • Tony||

    It's always so cute when semiliterate racist buffoons start going on about other people's intelligence.

  • Harvard||

    Yes, yes, I've been wondering. It's been a long time since we've seen you.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    It's not because Obama is an introvert. It's not because he's dishonest. It's that his policies suck. They've made a bad situation worse, and it's becoming readily apparent. People don't fear Obama because his policies are increasingly pissing people off.

  • soflarider||

    I would disagree seeing how he used dishonesty to sell his suck ass policies. In contrast, Jimmy Carter had suck ass policies yet I see him as honest so I have more respect for him. Decent man, crappy president.
    Introvert? Whatever. Introverts can be successful at engaging others if they work at it. It doesn't mean the enjoy or prefer it.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Except, you kind of prove my point. Carter wasn't exactly successful as a president. It really doesn't matter whether people like or respect the guy. It's whether other politicians think they'll benefit by being associated with him.

  • soflarider||

    I might have misinterpreted your intent. Exactly what was your point? It seems to be implied rather than clearly made.
    I thought you were saying he's pissing people off because his policies suck, not because he's an introvert or because he lied to sell his suck ass policies.
    I didn't say Carter was successful. What I was saying was that he was less reviled. Even though his policies were bad, he didn't resort to chicanery to sell them. Carter invokes pity rather than anger.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Well, the "pissed people off" is the means to the end of why he's not succeeding. My understanding of the article is that it's addressing the claim that Obama's failing because he's an introvert and responding with a claim that he's failing because he lied. But, that's just not the case.

    Bill Clinton was a liar of pretty much epic proportions. Nevertheless, much of the country was okay with it because he didn't follow wildly destructive policies.

  • Aurgelmir||

    Obama seems introverted because he is rightly scared of talking to anybody who would catch on to him. He is not intelligent. If he were to have a simple conversation with somebody not under his spell, they would see him for the empty suit he is. Ever seen him display any kind of intelligence? Teleprompted speeches don't count...aaand that's all there is. I think he proved it best on Letterman. All relaxed and off the cuff, he compared his bowling skills to the Special Olympics. Who, over the age of 14, says something like that in any context, even with close friends? Who makes fun of handicapped people? A stupid (and completely non-empathetic, narcissistic)person, that's who

  • Spartacus||

    I was going to say "That's retarded, sir", but then I decided not to.

  • Brian||

    It's funny to me that, when you start debating the legitimacy of the state, statists argue that the democratic process is a grand, utilitarian exercise, in which we vote for the policies (or, by proxy, the representatives who support the right policies) and experiment with our attempts to maximize human well-being. And, since we haven't adopted libertarianism, this must mean that people don't think it's a good idea.

    So, why is the president unpopular? Why are his accomplishments unpopular? Is it because people don't like his policies and their effects? No, it's his personality. It's his showmanship. He's not a good enough ad man.

    It seems like democracy legitimizes certain policies, right up until those policies become unpopular, in which case, democracy has nothing to do with them. Go figure.

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    By that logic dictators that don't get overthrown or rioted are also grand utilitarian exercises.

  • G3||

    Introvert? Perhaps. Spoiled brat? Likely. Truth-challenged? Absolutely.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    Obama sucks because he lacks logic and he is unrealistic.

  • ||

    A person who loves campaigning, fund-raising, organizing communities and etc. does not seem to me to be very introverted.

  • Tony||

    Don't sound so gleeful when declaring your president a disaster. It reeks of partisan filth. There is going to be another Republican in the White House some time in the distant future, and we're going to run out of adjectives at the rate you guys are declaring (with abundant and obvious happiness) Obama a failure.

  • soflarider||

    Tell me truthfully, are you busier now admonishing Obama's critics than you were from 2001 until 2009 admonishing Bush's critics?
    Partisan filth indeed.
    I thought there was never going to be another Republican in the White House. This is a stunning revelation.

  • Tony||

    Bush deserved every criticism he ever got plus life in prison.

  • Harvard||

    I'm thinking it was about the time of the healthcare roll out that you went missing.

  • Tony||

    Pure coincidence, though admittedly I was not in the mood to see a bunch of people doing cartwheels of glee over a delay in getting insurance to the uninsured/underinsured.

    Just playing it safe--I've yet to see the level of human suffering you guys aren't willing to tolerate if it means Obama's poll numbers go down a point.

  • Brian||

    Tony:

    Just playing it safe--I've yet to see the level of human suffering you guys aren't willing to tolerate if it means Obama's poll numbers go down a point.

    Well, we had a lot of help from the Obama administration.

    Personally, I wish he had set the no insurance penaltax to $15,000 per household, as well as drafting the unemployed into cheap nursing programs or something. But, I'll take what I can get. Now, I've got to go. The orphans turning the grinder in my mill won't flog themselves.

  • Tony||

    You have orphans and a mill, yet you aren't grinding orphans? Chalk one up for moral scruples losing in the marketplace.

  • Brian||

    Tony:

    You have orphans and a mill, yet you aren't grinding orphans? Chalk one up for moral scruples losing in the marketplace.

    Ground orphans only go for so much, thanks to corn subsidies, the milled corn is more valuable. And farming corn is cheaper than farming orphans.

    So, I make more money, and the orphans avoid the grinder.It's a win-win, thanks to my private-public partnership.

  • Tony||

    You mean you aren't aware of the orphan meat bubble being fueled by irrational exuberance in certain Asian markets?

  • Brian||

    From what I heard, the Chinese are capitalizing on that in their socialist/communist system, by selling orphans (along with with the normal adoptions, of course).

    When you factor in the surge of supply along with the time and cost of transporting the orphans, it just doesn't add up.

  • soflarider||

    I wold suggest you crawl back under that rock. You obviously have no sympathy for the people who have been left out in the cold with no insurance due to your dear leader's signature achievement.

    I try not to despise moronic liberals but people like you make that very difficult. I try to turn that into pity then I calculate how much damage you morons mindlessly wreak on society.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Shorter statist douchenozzle: "Don't expect any adherence to anything resembling principles from a Team Blue hack."

  • Tony||

    I don't allow myself to label the pointless suffering of millions as a "principle." So come up with your own universal healthcare plan or else it might be best if you shut your face.

  • Gilbert Martin||

    "I don't allow myself to label the pointless suffering of millions as a "principle."

    Well you're a liberal so for you the pointless suffering of millions is an objective.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    I don't allow myself to label the pointless suffering of millions as a "principle."

    Unless said suffering involves those millions losing their insurance.

    Tony, you really are a worthless, statist piece of rotting rat feces.

  • Tony||

    I vote for reinstating the standard that you must know what the hell you're talking about before you talk.

  • Brian||

    Tony:

    So come up with your own universal healthcare plan or else it might be best if you shut your face.

    You sound so tough and scary when you talk like that. I like it.

    Venezuela's healthcare system is universal.

    We should adopt that one!

    Hey, we can't tolerate the status quo, with it's lack of universality, so it must be better! Forward!

    (please ignore the new status quo brought to you by Obamacare)

  • Tony||

    So you are okay with not having universality. That's a start. Since the prior status quo is completely indefensible even on that premise, surely you have an alternative--oh, and obviously it will be as substantially different from Obamacare as good is from evil.

  • Brian||

    Sorry, but I reject your premise that I must defend either the status quo or solve the problem with your arbitrary "universal" qualifier. Venezuela is a great example of how universality != pure awesome.

    Universality is a fraud. When people in Venezuela can die of curable diseases lacking medical treatment in a system that counts as "universal", then universality is meaningless. Even universal doesn't mean universal, apparently. So I feel no need to pretend to achieve it.

    Achieving true universality is a lot more complicated then "Assume government labels itself universal. Voila!"

  • Tony||

    Venezuela, a dysfunctional autocratic state, is hardly the only one to achieve healthcare universality. The reason our status quo is indefensible is because it both failed to achieve universality and also cost the most in the world per person. Liberals have a program that has actually been tested to a degree of reasonable empirical satisfaction. You have utopian bullshit.

  • Brian||

    Tony:

    Venezuela, a dysfunctional autocratic state, is hardly the only one to achieve healthcare universality. The reason our status quo is indefensible is because it both failed to achieve universality and also cost the most in the world per person. You have utopian bullshit.

    Your utopia is bullshit. Venezuela satisfies your criteria: universality and cheap cost per person. Apparently, it’s more defensible than ours. What does “universal access” mean in an economy where there are shortages on every drug and piece of medical equipment? Utopia by label? Nearly everyone in the US can afford a bandaid, so I assume we’ve achieved near universality, on par with Venezuela. Whoop dee shit. If Venezuela counts as universal healthcare, with people dying of curable diseases due to medical shortages, then universal healthcare is just a propaganda phrase.

    What problem do you have with Venezuela, anyway? They satisfy your democracy standards, right? They have elections for their government. Did they just take the disrespect for private property and voluntary exchange a bit too far? A little too top-heavy on the nationalization and price controls? On what principle of yours did they deviate from?

    There are populists in Venezuela right now, with political ideals close to yours, thankful they’re grand socialist government is really going after the wealth of the evil rich. They must think it’s curious when they have to die due to want of antiseptic.

  • OneOut||

    You reek of partisan filth.

  • Tony||

    But I proudly smear it on me. You guys are supposed to be principled idealists.

  • soflarider||

    I'm amazed that you allow you hypocrisy to be so easily exposed. Are you completely unaware that nobody is likely to follow the advice of a hypocrite?

  • ||

    ▂ ▄ ▅ ▇ LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY ▇ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
    My Boy friend makes $75/hour on the internet. She has been without a job for 6 months but last month her pay was $16453 just working on the internet for a few hours. Straight from the source------------ http://www.jobs53.com

  • bassjoe||

    Maybe it's time to consider that 8 years is too long for a person to be president in this country in this day and age. The last three presidencies can only be described as "failures" by the 6th, 7th and 8th years rolled around. Bush with Iraq and Katrina; Clinton with the dress fiasco. Anything that was actually done by those presidents happened in the first terms.

  • Nixonfan||

    Coolidge makes Obama look like Teddy Kennedy. He was a "weaned on a prune" and had no small talk. He was not a nice guy and nobody liked him. But he was one of our best presidents: peace and prosperity.

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    Andrew Mellon's tax reforms helped a lot too

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