Jacob Sullum | September 30, 2009
Does Conan the Barbarian have serious artistic value? That's one of the intriguing questions raised by a case the U.S. Supreme Court will hear next Tuesday.
Because Conan includes footage of horses tripped by wires, it seems to be covered by a federal ban on depictions of animal cruelty. If so, Amazon is committing a felony by selling it, unless it could convince a jury that the 1982 epic—in which a bare-chested, codpiece-wearing future governor of California declares that the best thing in life is "to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women"—has "serious religious, political, scientific, educational, journalistic, historical, or artistic value."
By inviting jurors to be film critics, with the consequences of a bad review including up to five years in federal prison, Congress has turned the First Amendment on its head. That lamentation you hear is the dismayed cry of the Framers at the blitheness with which the people's representatives seek to crush expression that offends them and drive politically incorrect thoughts from the realm of tolerable discourse.
Back in 1999, outraged by videos aimed at people who get a sexual thrill from watching women stomp on little animals, Congress made it a felony to create, sell, or possess with intent to distribute a "depiction of animal cruelty." It defined the forbidden material as any visual or audio record of conduct that hurts an animal when the conduct is prohibited by federal law or the law of the state where the depiction is created, sold, or possessed.
Although President Clinton said when he signed the law that it should be used to prosecute people only for material akin to the "crush videos" that provoked it, all three cases brought so far have involved footage of dog fights. In the case before the Supreme Court, Robert Stevens, a Virginia pit bull enthusiast, received a three-year prison sentence for selling two videos showing pit bulls fighting and one showing them hunting wild boar.
Stevens' conviction demonstrates how the ban on depictions of animal cruelty can send people to prison based on jurors' subjective reactions to a film. Stevens says he does not endorse dog fighting but used footage of it—shot in Japan, where the sport is legal, and in the United States more than three decades ago—to illuminate the history and behavior of pit bulls. Defense experts testified that the videos, which are far tamer than images routinely used by animal rights activists to rally support for their cause, have substantial educational, historical, and scientific value.
The prosecution's experts disagreed, quibbling over matters such as the length of certain scenes and Stevens' decision to illustrate poor training by showing a dog attacking a domestic pig. In 2006 the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit overturned Stevens' conviction, ruling that Congress had violated the First Amendment by making a man's liberty hinge on such unpredictable, arbitrary judgments about the value of his speech.
The appeals court noted that "the statute potentially covers a great deal of constitutionally protected speech," including images of bullfighting in Spain (since the recorded conduct need only be illegal where it is possessed or sold) and of hunting or fishing out of season. Similarly, in a brief asking the Supreme Court to uphold the 3rd Circuit's ruling, several journalism organizations that worry about the law's impact on coverage of animal-related issues say it "appears to be a felony for anyone in Oregon to possess depictions of legal, licensed crossbow hunting in Washington." Wrinkles like that could imperil the entire genre of hunting and fishing videos.
Solicitor General Elena Kagan suggests the Justice Department will avoid such bizarre results by applying the statute judiciously. But Stevens' prosecution, which goes beyond the avowed intent of Congress, shows the department cannot be trusted to do so. If the First Amendment means anything, it means freedom of speech should not depend on prosecutorial discretion.
Jacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason and a nationally syndicated columnist.
© Copyright 2009 by Creators Syndicate Inc.
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While a law preventing a someone from profiting from a crime (particularly crimes that are cruel to a person or animal)are a good idea in theory, this bill does sound like a mess that can be abused by unscrupolous cops and prosecutors. Come up with something better or drop it.
This stupid law has prevented me from legally pursuing a
rewarding career in crush videos and has severely impacted my shoe
collection.
Didn't it even prohibit stomping on bug videos too?
Wrinkles like that could imperil the entire genre of hunting
and fishing videos.
I don't care. I still oppose the law.
Wrinkles like that could imperil the entire genre of hunting
and fishing videos.
But the hunters and fishers with wrinkles have the best shows!
One of the rare instances that a law was made to prohibit a genre so niche that I'm still not sure it even exists.
I know what you mean, Art! For similar reasons, i'm no longer sure i believe in Japan.
the Justice Department will avoid such bizarre results by applying the statute judiciously
Does stomping on Beanie Babies count?
I'm pretty sure there's an upcoming law to make this mandatory.
What about intra-wildlife conflict, like all those edumacational films, which surely arouse some viewers' passions? What about wildlife vs. passive injury-producing agents (boar vs. tree [Go, Tree!])? What about boar vs. artificial wall caught on a surveillance camera? What about dog vs. skunk? What about tapeworms? What about this?
... could imperil the entire genre of hunting and fishing
videos.
Not to mention half the cartoon industry. [Beep-beep!]
Art-P.O.G.-
Tell me why I was "off-base" in asserting that libertarian
philosophy does not require its adherents to subscribe to the
notion that the state must have a monopoly on the administration of
justice.
Show me Rothbard's pronouncements on the matter. Did he label as
"loons" those who do not subscribe to the historically disastrous
concept that the state must have a monopoly on the administration
of justice?
How about Albert Jay Nock? How about Lysander Spooner? Show me.
Prove me wrong.
DAMMIT, i knew i should've used COD's with ACME instead of visa. Now they have a paper trail leading from that damn bird to me.
"Didn't it even prohibit stomping on bug videos too?"
So would that make news organizations cuplable for 'possessing with
intent to distribute' the video of Obama swatting the fly during an
interview?
The Crush fetish is very real, as is the "Girls in Bikinis Popping Balloons" fetish. Crushing blends humiliation into the much more common foot and shoe fetishes. It can also figure into some BDSM role playing where the small creature is a psychological surrogate for the masochist, allowing utter destruction surrogate where the masochist cannot be. And the humiliation factor is here as well, as the slave may be made to lick or otherwise clean the boot of offal.
Tell me why I was "off-base" in asserting that libertarian philosophy does not require its adherents to subscribe to the notion that the state must have a monopoly on the administration of justice.
In "abstract space" I'd say we're free to debate the idea, but
as far as practicality is concerned 1) enforcement of the law and
administration of the justice system should be centrally
administrated and 2) I don't think a state budget crisis means that
you stop prosecuting people. The general shittiness of California's
government doesn't preclude them from prosecuting someone.
Please tell me what, other than vigilante justice or the
state-sponsored kind of law enforcement, could (realistically) have
apprehended or confined Polanski.
That's some pretty hardcore masochistic ideation, SugarFree. Far
be it for me to judge, though*.
*Psych, I'm judging.
Tell me why I was "off-base" in asserting that libertarian
philosophy does not require its adherents to subscribe to the
notion that the state must have a monopoly on the administration of
justice.
Changing the goal posts this morning are we?
Yesterday you were arguing that state has NO legitimate role in law
enforcement. This is not the same as saying the state has monopoly
control of law enforcement.
Even after a good night's sleep, you're still a blithering
idiot.
LibertyMike,
If there were competing justice systems (let's say one state and 3
private), perhaps one of the private ones would have apprehended
Polanksi in 1978 when he first escaped. But what we perhaps wish
could have occurred isn't reality in this case. Maybe someday it
will be. Until then, are we to let people off the hook for terrible
crimes because they got away for a long time before being caught,
or because the entity that is finally able to administer justice
lacks funds? They've never stopped trying so I don't see why time
matters. They were basically blocked by other government entities.
Not sure why that's OK in your mind.
Unlike many people on this site no doubt believe, I think laws
against animal cruelty should be enforced. Should it extend to
videos? Doubtful. If animals have any rights at all, their rights
are clearly not on par with human rights. A visual record of the
abuse of an animal is not equal to a visual record of the abuse of
a human being.
So while I would very much like the production of these videos to
be illegal, I can't think of a viable reason to make their
distribution illegal.
Though I do worry about the precedent of protecting ALL videos of
abuse in the name of free speech--would libertarians have it extend
to videos of abuse of human beings? It's a bit of a manufactured
slippery slope; on the other hand, it's a very real concern of mine
since I've seen people argue in favor of legalizing such videos by
similar logic. I could never endorse such a blatant violation of a
human victim's inherent rights.
Animals? I think most people can agree there's a wide gulf
there.
If I did not get a good night's sleep, would you cut me some
slack?
Only if you were having a good time ;-)
I attempted the assist for my blogger buddy but could not find
any stories of people being prosecuted in relation to bug crush
videos. Thought I had heard about that a while back too.
SugarFree, have the authorities harassed you about your collection
yet?
Ugh, SF, I can't finish my breakfast now. I hope you cut and pasted that from somewhere else, rather than thoughtfully assembled it from deep analysis.
At least Polanski wasn't using 13 year olds for crush movies. He has that going for him.
What does "depiction" mean? I suppose I could have actually read the piece, but that requires effort. Is simulated cruelty "depiction"?
Didn't it even prohibit stomping on bug videos
too?
I was amazed watching some behind-the-scenes for a movie with a lot
of bugs, "joe's apartment" prolly, when they explained how none of
the cockroaches were harmed. "Really? I cant believe anyone
gave-a-shit in the 1st place."
This gives us a solution for change though. Just get a job with
Orkin or your local pest eliminators, and tape yourself killing the
bugs. Then distribute from a company computer. That should make the
company responsible enough for prosecution, right?
On the other hand, if you actually enjoy animal cruelty, then you might just be a sociopath. But yeah this law would be pretty fucked up.
Ah, but what if the animals are just simulated? Then we have to decide whether we're trying to prevent animal abuse or trying to prevent people getting off to animal abuse.
Sorry, Joe M. Wrote it myself. But most of it was from an
article I read a few years ago, if that helps.
I never forget anything awful I encounter.
kinnath, I am not changing the goal posts. My posts at 5:16 pm
and 7:34 pm yesterday on Nick Gillespie's Polanski thread are just
what I am asserting this morning.
Good time? Yeah, I had to pick up my nephew at the airport-his
flight was due in at about 10:00 pm. It arrived at 11:45. You think
I am nuts posting - you should have seen me last night with
Southwest's personnel.
At any rate, time to let this one drop. All I ask is that you do
not consider me an idiot for espousing a position that Rothbard and
others have also supported.
But most of it was from an article I read a few years ago, if that helps.
An article that you wrote. BURN!
I remember that shortly after I moved to Arizona, someone threw
a Bichon Frise puppy out of a car window going 70 MPH. It was all
over the news for a week. Eveyone, and I mean everyone, around town
was talking about it. People all over the city were trying to find
the son of a bitch to kick his ass. There wasn't enough evidence to
ID the guy, but that didn't stop people from trying. Honestly, had
I not been new to the area, I'd probably be among them.
Why do I bring this up? People HATE true animal cruelty. Not the
whiny crap PETA comes up with, but the real deal. This is one fight
you guys are not going to win at the current moment. Once they
start banning hunting videos, yeah, people will see the foolishness
in this law. But right now, especially in the aftermath of that
monster Michael Vick being allowed back into the NFL, you're only
going to make things worse by pushing for this to be stricken from
the law.
Oh, and the puppy lived with no permanent injuries. Gotta hand it
to dogs, they're far more durable that humans.
...someone threw a Bichon Frise puppy out of a car window
going 70 MPH.
Have dogs ever fallen out of car windows before? Mine arent allowed
to hang out the window when we go somewhere, but other ppl leave
the whole window open.
It does seem most likely that it got tossed, considering the breed,
and the fact that they found the dog but no
owner-searching-for-said-dog somewhere in the area.
Just sayin, maybe it could have jumped or fallen out. If the driver
was elderly (or hell, just a normal busy person), they might not
realize until they got home. Then their neighboor catches them in
the driveway to tell them about "the horrible bastards who threw a
dog out a window" they heard about on the news just now.
/devil's advocate off
Sick Dog-Tossing Fuckers
thenino85,
If that dog would have just obeyed its master it might not have
been taken for a ride. Ever think of that?
They should just make it legal for me to hunt down the people who make and watch crush videos and then make them fight against pit bulls while I film it. And then I can sell the videos. It's free market solution to animal cruelty and sexual stupidity. You can produce and watch that shit all you want, but you can also get mauled to death by pit bulls for doing so. Just for variety, sometimes you might want to use rabid wolverines instead. Or weasel in the colon. Or getting eaten by Thulsa Doom's giant pet snake.
Warning, it's disturbing:
Chick farm
grinder
So, in theory, if the group that made this video to stop the
practice succeeded in redefining the practices as cruel, then they
would be liable for creating the video under this law?
Sadly I think this type of thing requires people (and law
enforcement) to exercise common sense. Just like things like child
porn laws.
The average person should be able to tell the difference (like with
the case of the parents being turned in by Walmart a couple of
weeks ago).
If it's really animal abuse, then yes it should probably be illegal
just like kiddie porn, if it's not, then people should exercise
some common sense and drop it.
Simulation is not prohibited under the statute.
Also, the fact that Stevens was the first prosecution, six years
after the statute was enacted, should prove rather silly these
doomsday fears of the erosion of all First Amendment protection for
videos.
What about Food Network? Top Chef, anyone? Last I checked there were people fileting rack of lamb and steaming lobsters on those shows. For pleasure!
Conan the Barbarian rules. The Mako narration and
soundtrack alone makes it the best fantasy movie ever made. I'm
sure the framers of the Constitution would easily agree with this
objective scientific fact.
But not even that cryptofascist Alexander Hamilton could not of
foreseen the making of Conan the Destroyer and the
insidious corrupting effect it would have on the art world in
general. The genre has never quite recovered. (Sure, Lord of the
Rings LOOKED great, but if I had to endure another 5 minute
monologue on friendship from Sam to Frodo I'd of cried fire in
theatre.)
Destroyer should be banned on principle...but if we have
to pretend it's to protect animals, than I support this new law. We
should ban Moonraker too. That movie sucked ass.
Though I do worry about the precedent of protecting ALL
videos of abuse in the name of free speech--would libertarians have
it extend to videos of abuse of human beings?
But the point is that many of the videos covered do not depict
illegal activity, as defined by where they are made. To take a case
blogged earlier, if it's not illegal in a state for two teenagers
to have sex, why should they be prosecuted for emailing each other
a "child abuse" video showing the consensual act? Why should such a
video be illegal in a state with different laws?
Ah, but what if the animals are just simulated? Then we have to
decide whether we're trying to prevent animal abuse or trying to
prevent people getting off to animal abuse.
Given laws against computer-simulated child abuse, I'd say that
question has been answered.
If it's really animal abuse, then yes it should probably be
illegal just like kiddie porn, if it's not, then people should
exercise some common sense and drop it.
If common sense were only common...
The law would have been a lot better if it only included depictions
of activities illegal where the video was made. A lot harder to
enforce, but better.
Sadly I think this type of thing requires people (and law
enforcement) to exercise common sense.
Good luck with that. I cant place the date but I'm pretty sure
common sense has gone extinct, thanks to AGW.
Last I checked there were people fileting rack of lamb and
steaming lobsters on those shows. For pleasure!
Well, the butcher is prolly liable for the lamb, not the show. But
those lobsters.....lets get our torches and pitchforks. ;)
We should ban Moonraker too. That movie sucked ass.
At somepoint in the TBS/TNT/Spike Bond-Lovefest that they've had
going the past few years, i realized i was taking the movies too
seriously.
Sure, since the Dalton films, they're almost serious espionage
flicks. Everything before that is like a parody of a spy film.
Which would make Austin Powers a Parody-of-a-Parody.
Or maybe they just didn't realize how absurd most of it looked on
screen.
Anyway, they're a lot more entertaining if you take them as a
comedy. Re-watch Moonraker in that light and see how it strikes
you.
Keep trying, Beezard.
lol. That you for those words of inspiration, grammar gestapo.
This thread just makes me think of Bear Grylls eating some kind of larva the size of a fucking twinkie. It actually exploded in his mouth and shot out some yellow and red liquids.
@wylie
At somepoint in the TBS/TNT/Spike Bond-Lovefest that they've
had going the past few years, i realized i was taking the movies
too seriously.
Sure, since the Dalton films, they're almost serious espionage
flicks. Everything before that is like a parody of a spy film.
Which would make Austin Powers a Parody-of-a-Parody.
Or maybe they just didn't realize how absurd most of it looked on
screen.
Anyway, they're a lot more entertaining if you take them as a
comedy. Re-watch Moonraker in that light and see how it strikes
you.
Totally agree.
I just harbor an old and irreversible grudge against
Moonraker because it came towards the end of a Bond
marathon I stayed up and watched in my hormonal youth. Bond movies
were the epitome of cool to me back in those years. And to suddenly
see him get raped on film like that....for some reason I didn't
have an issue with Octopussy which was probably just as
bad.
Anyway, they're all pretty ridiculous once they age a little. I
just saw some Dalton one (or was it the other guy?)where he jumped
after a plane that had rolled off a cliff, climbed inside of it and
flew it away...
Funny enough, I think Conan the Barbarian manages to stand the test
of time...they could of boiled puppies during the making of the
movie and I'd probably still like it.
"Common sense"? Like not arresting a grandmother for buying two bottles of cold medicine...?
You know, not to be all logical, intelligent, and reality based, BUT ARE NOT HUMANS ANIMALS??? Or would the Supreme Court rule that humans are not animals (maybe we're vegtables? ...or to be legalistic, we're Supra animal, or some such construction). So wouldn't practically every movie and nightly news cast violate the law?
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