Friday Open Thread

What's on your mind?

Comments

[Mr. Bumble]

Has anyone noticed anything different with a "shut down" federal government?
Asking for a friend.

[Kazinski]

Has it happened before in the middle of the baseball playoffs?

Hard to concentrate on much else besides the 49ers upsetting the Rams.

[John F. Carr]

An article reviewing past shutdowns observes that October is a popular time because it is the start of a new fiscal year.

[Commenter_XY]

Wait, wait, wait....The world has not ended? We've been told by Team D that a shutdown would be the end of the world.

I'm told pink slips start going out today.

[Randal]

The only thing saving the stupid Democrats here is that Republicans are even more stupid... by celebrating the shutdown they're going to end up owning it. They need to at least pretend like they didn't want it to happen if they want people to think that they didn't want it to happen.

[Frank Drackman]

Are you daft? "45/47" has literally said he's not happy about the Shutdown, while the DemoKKKrats are "Doing the Macarena" (My lame attempt to imitate his great "Deep Fake" of a Sombrero wearing Hakim Jefferson, and Chuck the Schmuck Shumer saying how everyone hates the DemoKKKrats)

Frank

[Randal]

No, he literally said that the shutdown is an "unprecedented opportunity." And apparently Vought has been dreaming about a shutdown "since puberty."

That's the messaging coming out of the administration. Sorry penis-of-ugly-man, here's the reality:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/early-polls-trump-republicans-taking-blame-government-shutdown-rcna235141

[Frank Drackman]

And Schmuck Schumer said everyone hates DemoKKKrats because they support Healthcare for Illegal Immigrants (including "Sexual Reassignment Surgery" no doubt)

[Poxigah146]

Is that any different than Rahm Emanuel or whomever it was saying to never let a crisis go to waste?

[Frank Drackman]

I like Rahm, ruthless, mean, he’d be a good Conservative (or Moe-Saad Interogator)

Frank

[Ska]

It was odd seeing a sensible article from him in the WSJ yesterday. Makes me think I need to go for a checkup. Or maybe play the lottery.

[Frank Drackman]

Says something when the "Voice of Sanity" in the DemoKKKrat party is John Fetterman

[Michael Ejercito]

This is the first shutdown to happen within five years after the private sector was shut down.

[Commenter_XY]

LOL, LOL, LOL = Team R owns it.

Well, Ok.

Team R will 'own' getting rid of thousands and thousands of non-essential DC bureaucrats. Oh, the horror. 🙂

[loki13]

So this will be a reply in two parts-

1. We don't actually know how bad the economy is (government shutdown is keeping the BLS numbers from keeping out), but ... it's not great. More unemployed people searching for jobs (and not spending money) is ... not great. That's not an argument for government waste, but it is a reminder that mass indiscriminate mass layoffs at this time aren't good for the economy.

2. This is a near-daily reminder to you that these "thousands and thousands" of bureaucrats ... the ones that you are delighting in their firing of? They're people. People with families. Mortgages. Bills. It's one thing to discuss, rationally, policy issues. It's quite another to continually delight in the suffering of actual people. It's unpleasant enough when you do it regarding undocumented immigrants, or Palestinians, or ... whomever. But the sheer delight you seem to take in the actual suffering of fellow Americans who have done nothing wrong simply because you identify with "Team R" is something you might want to reflect on.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Sucks to be them -- some of us have the wrong skin color or body parts and haven't spent 40 years enjoying the largess and I say Firetruck them. Welcome to our world.

[myself]

Sucks to be them
...
I say Firetruck them. Welcome to our world.

Didn't take Ed long to drop the pretense of human decency.

[Mr. Bumble]

I hear there's an opening for school district superintendent in Iowa.

[Brett Bellmore]

1. If federal government employees are a large enough part of the economy that laying them off for a week amounts to serious economic damage, they're too large a part of the economy.

2. Yes, they're people, with families, mortgages, bills. If you were paying them to dig holes and refill them, they'd be people with families, mortgages, bills. If you were paying them to set fire to houses so that there'd be more economic activity in terms of insurance companies and building contractors, they'd be people with families, mortgages, bills.

EVERYBODY is people with families, mortgages, bills. Doesn't mean that everybody is doing something that should be done, or is worth paying them to do.

[Sarcastr0]

Fuck you.

I’m out and about figuring out mutual aid options for a fellow in our office that can’t afford to miss a paycheck.

But fuck Commenter note for gloating.
Such hate.

[Mr. Bumble]

He's back.

[DDHarriman]

He finally had a chance to cloak himself in victimhood by association, which grants him ultimate moral authority in Democrat land.

So he's out here trying to beat people up with his victimhood.

[myself]

It's called empathy, but I understand if that's a foreign concept for you.

[Brett Bellmore]

No, he's "baaaaak". 😉

Sarcastr0, I'm not gloating, my brother out in California is currently working unpaid thanks to this.

But it's like I said: EVERYBODY is "people, with families, mortgages, bills." Does that mean nobody can ever be laid off?

[Sarcastr0]

I didn't say you were gloating. You just don't care about suffering when the group is one you disfavor. And that's most everyone.

Commenter is gloating about suffering of groups of people. It's impressive how much he stands out as the worst person around here. He lives in negative empathy.

Joe_dallas is just hating based on vibes that feds don't do work. As usual, his ignorant pronouncement of How It Is says a lot about his angry, pinched worldview.

[Joe_dallas]

overpaid and underworked government employees

A concept that someone whose compensation comes from sucking on the taxpayers wouldnt understand. The privilege of a government funded job is at risk

[DDHarriman]

Well joe_dallas, Sarcastr0 will explain to you that government work isn't about efficiency, it's about equity. They should be overpaid and underworked.

It's justice.

[Brett Bellmore]

Do YOU care that the expense of maintaining a bloated federal government imposes suffering on the taxpayers?

Do YOU care about the suffering we're storing up for future generations because of it?

Do YOU care that the national debt is currently 120% of GDP and rising fast?

Do YOU care that 27% plus of federal spending is financed by borrowing? And not in the middle of an existential war like WWII, not in a terrifying emergency, but just during ordinary times, because Congress has no spending discipline to speak of?

Sarcastr0, what can't go on won't go on, and we can either reduce the federal government's scale dramatically in a controlled manner before the crash, or in an uncontrolled manner when the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

I've no doubt that, in person, you're a lot nicer than you are on the internet, that's true of just about everybody.

I've no doubt that you and your co-workers have lives, and feelings.

But you're part of a freight train barreling towards a cliff, and we can either stop it and let you find something else to do, or we can hit the cliff.

Which scenario sounds like a better deal for you?

[Sarcastr0]

Same as when you talk about illegal immigrants. Or minorities.

Brett's very super duper sure there's a crisis. And no amount of cruelty and governmental oppression is too high a price to pay to solve it!
Provided said cruelty and oppression applies to *those people*.

Gotta bind but not protect, so Brett can be protected but not bound!

It's a deep failure of empathy. And a nearly solopsistic level of unearned confidence in your pronouncements.
But it's better than the other posters who seem to actively hate federal employees based on choosing to misunderstand who we are or what we do.

[Mr. Bumble]

Brett;
Please don't feed the remora.

[Life of Brian]

[sputter grumble jab] But it's better than the other posters . . .

Man, that's about as close to a Hallmark moment as we're ever likely to see.

[Brett Bellmore]

"Brett's very super duper sure there's a crisis."

120% of GDP.

The national debt is currently $37.86 trillion dollars.

This year's deficit is projected to be $1.7T, so the debt is going up by about 5% of GDP per year at this point.

You're super duper sure there's not a crisis, because your paycheck is part of that $1.7T.

I'll say it again: What can't go on, won't go on. Will you be better off having some time to find a new job in a healthy economy in the next year or two, or would you rather find a new job in post-crash America a decade from now?

[Bob from Ohio]

" It's impressive how much he stands out as the worst person around here."

Damn you Commenter_XY. Sacrcasto used to think that was me!

[Bob from Ohio]

"He's back."

Had to find a computer since he can't use his taxpayer paid one.

[Frank Drackman]

Well Fuck YOU
And the Horse you rode in on!
Oh, that was no Filly that’s your Wife?
No Offense!
Well maybe a little offense
Maybe you should pay the guys in “Your” Office more?
See, then they wouldn’t be dependent on Government handouts.

Frank

[Joe_dallas]

Sarcastro - is pissed off that someone supported responsible spending of taxpayer money

[John 4]

I think it’s just the general frustration he has when discussing anything with you retards, because you don’t seem to know anything about anything.

[bernard11]

There is nothing responsible going on here.

Just cruelty and destruction.

You want to cut staff to save money? Fine. Go look at at programs and agencies. Decide which are overstaffed. Cut the deadheads and leave the people doing the work. Randomly distributing pink slips is truly stupid.

[Mr. Bumble]

So your saying Il Douche should go, since he appeared to spend most of his day posting comment here?

[Joe_dallas]

Bernie - you are correct - continuing bloated spending is irresponsible.

Though the rest of your comment is just another piss poor attempt to justify bloated spending on overpaid underworked government employees.

[Joe_dallas]

Bumble - douche let it be known a long time ago that is source of income is from the taxpayers - albeit indirectly which explains why he is in favor to bloated government spending.

[bernard11]

Joe,

Apparently you can't read, or are so locked into your uninformed opinions you refuse to understand what you do read.

You condemn "overpaid underworked government employees" without having any idea what they do and without making any distinctions among them.

Nor did I "make excuses." I pointed out that the approach being taken is completely irrational, and suggested a more sensible approach to staffing.

But that would require intelligence and integrity - qualities notably lacking in the Administration, and among MAGA in general. Instead, this is just a way to show off and spew vacuous generalities, to please the base.

[Joe_dallas]

Bernard - again wrong regarding overpaid and underworked government employees.

Its well known that since the late 1990's that employee compensation including retirement benefits have exceeded compensation rates in the private sector by considerable amounts for comparable levels of work. Feel free to contact anyone in the employment consulting arena.
https://www.aseonline.org/News-Events/Articles/bls-report-shows-government-workers-make-40-more-than-private-industry-employees

[bernard11]

As I said, you can't read.

Here is what the first paragraph of your link says:

Last week the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) released its report on state and local government worker pay. It showed that public worker pay is nearly 40% higher than private sector workers.

Nothing there, or in the BLS report it cites, about federal employees.

Further, while the BLS report provides averages for various categories, the categories are poorly defined and don't match up.

More important, there is nothing in the report to tell us how many workers are in each category. That makes the averages completely meaningless for comparison purposes.

I'd think a hotshot accountant like you would have spotted that problem.

[Bwaaah]

And I've been helping my wife help illegal immigrants with their struggles. So me too about something that isn't supposed to be something for me, or something about something. Or something.

Il Douche shouldn't have to stoop down to a life challenged by scarcity. All his biggest problems could be solved by a wave of a Democratic Presidential hand as they/it declare, "It is so paid for."

DJT must be too modest to be the issuer of that grant. That's strange. He always seems to be boundless.

[Don Nico]

S-0 really cannot stand someone having an opinion different from his. So he stamps his feet and swears in protest.

[Bob from Ohio]

"S-0 really cannot stand someone having an opinion different from his."

Applies to loki, Nierpoint, Estrogen as well

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

He's not objecting to the differing opinion, he's objecting to the lack of empathy for struggling people. I'm saddened that you seem to share that lack.

[Mr. Bumble]

Struggling government workers out of work for three days?
Boo hoo.

[Joe_dallas]

yes i really care about overpaid underworked federal employees

Last week the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) released its report on state and local government worker pay. It showed that public worker pay is nearly 40% higher than private sector workers.

https://www.aseonline.org/News-Events/Articles/bls-report-shows-government-workers-make-40-more-than-private-industry-employees

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

Yeah, shocker, the administration that demands personal loyalty from every agency over truth and competence gets a report that agrees with their "overpaid government workers" narrative.

[David Nieporent]

Struggling government workers out of work for three days?
Boo hoo.

This discussion is not about them being out of work for three days; it's about C_XY's cheering about them being fired.

[Armchair]

You should've written your Congressperson to support a clean continuing resolution, so negotiations on other matters could take place while the government was funded.

Instead, you supported the Democrats plan to fillibuster a clean CR.

[Sarcastr0]

You're doing a terrible job of hiding how you don't care except you will pretend to if it allows you to attack Democrats.

[Armchair]

I care greatly. You were warned. Repeatedly. But you "wanted to fight." You "wanted a shutdown" instead of a clean CR.

Now look what happened.

[Sarcastr0]

Do you think this post you made here evinces someone who cares greatly, or someone who just wants to attack me?

[Armchair]

I think it makes it clear to everyone that you're insincere.

Someone who honestly cared about his coworkers employment wouldn't have cheered on a fight for a shutdown. Especially when clean CR was on the table. But you did. You "wanted a fight".

And now there's suffering as a result. It's on you and your team. You wanted it.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

If the Republicans need Democrat votes, they come to the Democrats with some offer. That's called negotiating. Instead, they simply keep proposing the House passed resolution, which Democrats find unacceptable.

You and Leavitt can keep shrieking "clean bill" all you want, you aren't convincing anyone.

[CountmontyC]

Alpheus are the Democrats negotiating when they demand increases in spending to get a continuing resolution? Which of their spending demands are they willing to surrender to get the government to reopen? If they aren't willing to surrender any of their demands they aren't negotiating.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

True. Have the Republicans asked the Democrats what they are willing to give up? Or do they simply keep bringing the exact same CR while the House pretends to be out of session?

Who is refusing to negotiate?

[Sarcastr0]

The GOP can override the filibuster if they feel strongly.

They aren't doing that.

[Life of Brian]

The GOP can override the filibuster if they feel strongly.

Ah, Mr. Muh Norms is suddenly just shrugging and effectively begging for his team to no longer try to stop bad shit from happening.

It's astounding how readily one's principles can be subordinated to one's paycheck.

[CountmontyC]

Alpheus why is it up to the Republicans to ask the Democrats anything about what the Democrats are willing to surrender? Why should the Republicans have to go to the obstructionists? The fact is that the Democrats hold the minority position and can only obstruct because to advance the continuing resolution requires a supermajority. The Democrats are only able to obstruct .

[Sarcastr0]

Why does the GOP need a supermajority? They can just change the rules.

[Brett Bellmore]

"Why does the GOP need a supermajority? They can just change the rules."

I don't recall you ever using that sort of reasoning to blame prior shutdowns on Democrats...

[Magister]

The one time during a federal shutdown (significant enough to have furloughed federal workers) that Democrats held the presidency and both House and Senate was 1980, when the FTC was shut down for a day. Republicans controlling all three have led to broad and longer shutdowns in both Trump administrations. Democrats ending the Senate filibuster would not have prevented any of these significant shutdowns.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

Monty, once again that's true. But that's the system we have, and if the Republicans actually want a CR to open government again, they need to go to the Democrats and meet a few of their demands. It's called governing.

[CountmontyC]

Alpheus the Democrats need to negotiate as well. That is especially true considering that the only reason the government is shutdown is because the Democrats obstructionist tactics has prevented a continuous resolution from being passed. If it were a simple majority Republican votes alone would be keeping the government open. Only because of Democrat obstruction is there a shutdown.

[CountmontyC]

Sarcastro tell you what, if after the midterms the Republicans still control both chambers of Congress I will support ending the filibuster. That way the Republicans can pass anything that they want and the Democrats can't obstruct. You with me on this?

[Sarcastr0]

Lame change of subject. I'm not saying what the Republicans should do, I'm pointing out what they can do.

And how that shows their attempts to blame the Dems is bullshit.

[Well, that and the White House's nonstop gloat tour.]

[David Nieporent]

Alpheus why is it up to the Republicans to ask the Democrats anything about what the Democrats are willing to surrender? Why should the Republicans have to go to the obstructionists?

Because they want this bill to pass. (We know, because they voted overwhelmingly for it.) And they don't have the votes to pass it on their own. Which means they need help from Democrats. And if you need someone to do something for you, you have to make an offer. The Dems have announced their terms; the ball is now in the GOP's court.

"My offer is this: nothing" isn't a way to negotiate in the real world.

[CountmontyC]

David don't the Democrats want the shutdown to end? Perhaps they should be negotiating.
Btw I am old enough to remember when Obama refused to negotiate unless a clean continuous resolution was passed during a debt limit debate and other Democrats ( including Biden and an Obama aide) compared Republicans to terrorists and hostage takers for trying to add things to the continuing resolution.

[loki13]

Commenter_XY was not gloating about "laying them off for a week," but about firing them.

And let's be clear- there has been no careful evaluation of people. Because OF COURSE THERE HASN'T BEEN. This is nothing more than mass layoffs as vindicative threat. We've already seen this play out before- ready, fire, aim.

Look, if I actually thought that there was some kind of careful plan to make government better and more efficient, I'd actually be in favor of it. That's not what this is, and you know it. So you're either lying to me or to yourself. *shrug*

ETA- and your judgments about what is and isn't relevant to the economy doesn't really matter. What does matter is if you have sudden employment shocks into an economy when it's not in a shape to handle those shocks. Because it costs all of us.

[bernard11]

And of course you assume that no civil servant is doing anything worthwhile.

Neither you nor XY have a clue as to what most of these people do, whether it has value, whether they do it well or badly.

Instead you just reflexively grunt, "government bad," and cheer for the layoffs.

[Brett Bellmore]

I could find something worthwhile to spend ten times my current income on. But I get by on a tenth that much worthwhile stuff, because that's what I can afford.

$1.7T deficit this year.

Even in the unlikely circumstance that every single solitary civil servant is doing worthwhile things, they're doing MORE worthwhile things than we can freaking AFFORD!

How can you not get that? $1.7T deficit, and not in the middle of a war for our lives, just in ordinary times. IT. CAN'T. GO. ON.

[Sarcastr0]

Permanent Crisis delusion alongside dehumanization of the victims.

It's right out of the USSR playbook. Or a Latin American strongman.

It sure has nothing to do with liberty.

The worst libertarian.

[Michael Ejercito]

Shutting down the government is much less harmful than shutting down the private sector.

[Sarcastr0]

Covid has zero to do with this.

What a terrible attempt at a tu quoque fallacy.

[Brett Bellmore]

Will you cut out this "dehumanizing" crap? Nobody is doing any "dehumanizing" here.

Being on a government payroll isn't an essential attribute of humanity!!!! Most of humanity earns its living in the PRIVATE sector, and yet manages to be human all the same.

If you're unemployed a week from now? You'll be an unemployed human. I got to be unemployed for about 4 months back in 2008, with my wife pregnant with our first child, and I might have been sweating blood until I found a new job, but it was human blood.

Yeah, I'm not a great Libertarian these days, if I were I'd be cheering a lot louder right now, and hoping for even deeper cuts, because the whole goddamn government is just one big violation of libertarian principles.

I know it's inconvenient for you to acknowledge, because you're part of the problem. But there IS a crisis, it's been building for decades now, and it's approaching catastrophic levels.

We can NOT go on running these huge deficits. We can NOT go on spending a quarter of the entire GDP on the federal government. It simply can't go on.

And if it not going on means you end up having to find a new job that isn't paid by tax dollars?

You'll still be human, just like all the people in the private sector already.

[Bwaaah]

Brett: "How can you not get that? $1.7T deficit, and not in the middle of a war for our lives, just in ordinary times. IT. CAN'T. GO. ON."

That, indeed. Drinks on the house. We're all going down.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

Duh! Nobody sensible denies that the federal government is bloated. The real question is how to fix it. This ain't it. But keep bringing up something we all know, as if it excuses what's going on.

[Bwaaah]

It's not that the government is "bloated." It's that it's spending much more money than it's taking in.

How to fix it? Outside the context of a catastrophe, there is no fix. We're addicted to paying our living expenses using our proverbial "Federal credit card." We won't stop until somebody/something cuts us off.

The sooner we get there, the less the magnitude of the necessary correction.

"This ain't it" doesn't justify the downward spiraling status quo.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

You honestly think this chaos, or the DOGE chaos, is going to fix anything? How many employees did they have to scramble to rehire?

There is a correct and constitutional way to bring the government back into reasonable shape. Congress puts on their big boy pants and does it. The fact that they seem unable doesn't justify unconstitutional and illegal actions by the executive. Isn't that what all of you were shouting when President Obama pushed his immigration measures? Of course now you're all for executive overreach. It's almost as if nothing you write here is in good faith.

[Joe_dallas]

Alpheus W Drinkwater 3 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
Duh! Nobody sensible denies that the federal government is bloated. The real question is how to fix it.

Then why are you bitching about any attempt to address it. Have you ever previously suggested more responsible spending? Or is just a recent acknowledgement

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

There are good, legal ways, and inefficient, bad ways to do it. I'm sorry you can't seem to grasp the difference.

Of course I've suggested more responsible spending. I saw the waste first-hand.

[bernard11]

Tell me, Brett.

What do you think of Trump's big ugly bill? I don't recall you screaming about the deficit increase, but maybe you did. Remind me.

[Brett Bellmore]

The only part of the title that was accurate was the "big".

[Commenter_XY]

There is the rub, Brett. As a country, we have far more worthwhile things to spend money upon than non-essential bureaucrats. That is the present fiscal reality.

[Don Nico]

Bernard,
DOE has actually compared the cost of 3rd party building on DOE sites with DOE's building of nearly identical facilities on the same site. The DOE construction was TWICE the cost. Now some people were getting paid to do useless work.
This was reported in public to a DOE advisory committee.

[bernard11]

Don,

OK. And what is the source of the problem? Too many workers? Bad planning? Poor management? Overpaying for materials and supplies?

And what is DOE doing about it, other than issuing a report?

I know one thing, wandering in and randomly laying off half the workers is unlikely to solve the problem. Instead, figure out where the difference is coming from, and then address that.

[David Nieporent]

EVERYBODY is people with families, mortgages, bills. Doesn't mean that everybody is doing something that should be done, or is worth paying them to do.

Not surprisingly, you completely missed Loki's point. Discussing the policy of shrinking government — even in the manner in which this is being accomplished — is perfectly reasonable. Being happy that a particular government agency is being reduced or eliminated is fine. (I will be thrilled when ICE is abolished.) But that's different than cheering the suffering of the people who work for these agencies, which is what C_XY is doing.

[Mr. Bumble]

Not so sure it's cheering but if you've ever been jerked around by a self important government employee it's somewhat understandable.

[Armchair]

"I will be thrilled when ICE is abolished"

Why? Customs enforcement isn't important to you?

[David Nieporent]

As with immigration enforcement, there is a small amount of legitimate customs enforcement that needs to be done; I do not think that a separate agency dedicated to these things is a good idea. (As I've said in the past, I extend that to other programs; I don't think DEA or ATF should have separate dedicated agencies either.)

(Note that routine customs work — collecting import duties and inspecting imports — is handled by CBP, not ICE.)

[Armchair]

"In FY 2020, HSI special agents made 31,915 criminal arrests, rescued or identified 1,012 child exploitation victims, and seized $341 million worth of counterfeit goods, 6,195 lbs of fentanyl and $1.8 billion in currency & assets from criminal organizations."

HSI is part of ICE. Not important to you?

[Joe_dallas]

Loki - Are we the taxpayers supposed to care about overpaid, underworked government employees losing their jobs? Shouldnt we care about the government being good stewards of taxpayer money?

[John 4]

Why would anyone think YOU had a grasp on who is and isn’t overpaid, underworked, etc.? You come off as a moron.

[David Nieporent]

Hey, I would think that bookkeeper_joe is intimately familiar with the phenomenon of being overpaid and underworked. But regardless of whether his assessment is correct, human beings can care both about "government being good stewards of taxpayer money" and people losing their jobs. (It's like when Charlie Kirk is killed: one can think him a bad person and that his murder was terrible.)

[Bob from Ohio]

Lawyer calling other people overpaid is certainly a take.

[Joe_dallas]

DN - another piss poor attempt by a leftist to justify wasteful spending

[David Nieporent]

You are both illiterate and stupid. Tell us more about how you taught a microbiologist about how COVID works.

[Joe_dallas]

DN - throws out insults when he has lost the core and substantive argument. Such maturity from someone trying his normal pathetic leftist excuse to justify wasteful government spending

[David Nieporent]

Is it an insult to call a retard a retard? I have explained repeatedly that I am not a leftist. I have explained why I am not a leftist.

And I certainly never justified any government spending.

[Joe_dallas]

ITs very much a sign of immaturity when you are dead wrong on the merits which becomes obvious that you result to throwing immature insults to save face among your fellows leftists.

[Mr. Bumble]

David,
Out of curiosity where would you say you fall on the political spectrum?

[Life of Brian]

Is it an insult to call a retard a retard?

1. Replace "retard" with your slur of choice.

2. Pop popcorn.

Just priceless.

[bernard11]

Joe, you have made no substantive comments at all. None.

All you do is rave repeatedly about "overpaid, underworked government employees."

Bernie - you are correct - continuing bloated spending is irresponsible.

Though the rest of your comment is just another piss poor attempt to justify bloated spending on overpaid underworked government employees.

Are we the taxpayers supposed to care about overpaid, underworked government employees losing their jobs? Shouldnt we care about the government being good stewards of taxpayer money?

DN - throws out insults when he has lost the core and substantive argument. Such maturity from someone trying his normal pathetic leftist excuse to justify wasteful government spending

ITs very much a sign of immaturity when you are dead wrong on the merits which becomes obvious that you result to throwing immature insults to save face among your fellows leftists.

It's all BS - not a milligram of substance. Pathetic.

(Oh, and if you think DMN is a leftist you haven't been around here very long. Based on lots of comments and exchanges, I can assure you he isn't. More stuff you make up.)

[David Nieporent]

Out of curiosity where would you say you fall on the political spectrum?

I have been a libertarian since the mid-1990s. (I have voted Libertarian in every presidential election since 1996.)

[not guilty]

Yes, David, calling someone a "retard" is insulting, no matter what that person's level of intelligence.

As I understand it, the phrase "mentally retarded" was initially a more polite way refer to those who were once called idiots, imbeciles or morons, suggesting that their mental development was merely slower than that of most persons. It has since been degraded to a more pejorative meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retard_(pejorative)

[Bob from Ohio]

"Is it an insult to call a retard a retard?"

Of course it is.

"I have voted Libertarian in every presidential election since 1996."

I guess you really are an expert at being retarded!

[Commenter_XY]

Did you really vote for Chase Oliver = I have been a libertarian since the mid-1990s. I have voted Libertarian in every presidential election since 1996.

[David Nieporent]

Did you really vote for Chase Oliver

Of course. Why wouldn't I have? He was the only pro-liberty candidate on the ballot.

[Poxigah146]

These "people with families" are mostly Democrat Party voters who have turned Virginia blue with their degeneracy. Fuck them. I hope they starve.

[Michael Ejercito]

2. This is a near-daily reminder to you that these "thousands and thousands" of bureaucrats ... the ones that you are delighting in their firing of? They're people. People with families. Mortgages. Bills. It's one thing to discuss, rationally, policy issues. It's quite another to continually delight in the suffering of actual people. It's unpleasant enough when you do it regarding undocumented immigrants, or Palestinians, or ... whomever. But the sheer delight you seem to take in the actual suffering of fellow Americans who have done nothing wrong simply because you identify with "Team R" is something you might want to reflect on.
The same applied to people who lost theirt jobs or businesses because of the COVID lockdowns.

[Sarcastr0]

One of those comparisons that shows how fucked up some people on your side are.

Because I didn't see anyone on here take delight in the economic impacts of Covid.

[Brett Bellmore]

1. It wasn't the economic impacts of Covid, which were very small. It was the economic impact of Covid policy.

2. And you among others were pretty casual about imposing those impacts.

[Armchair]

Ask Sarcatr0 about coal miners in West Virginia, and the government policy's impact on their jobs.

[Ridgeway]

You guys are being dense. If, in 2029, Pres. Ocasio-Cortes unilaterally imposes a 5,000% excise tax on WVA coal, leading to the shuttering of all coal mines in WVA, and Sarc responds, "Sweet! Screw those MAGA hillbillies!", then you'd have a valid whatabout.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Ask Sarcatr0 about coal miners in West Virginia..."

I wish Sarcastro
Would look out for miners...

[Joe_dallas]

bernard11 1 hour ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
Got data?

Why would you be asking for the data?

Do you lack the skill set to discover the obvious?

[bernard11]

Got data?

[Kazinski]

The private sector has always had to deal with "creative destruction", for too long government workers, especially federal government workers have treated their jobs as entitlements.

It's a long overdue corrective.

And even if they are doing jobs that whose functions can't be permanently eliminated, it can probably be done better by AI and provide better service anyway.

[Mr. Bumble]

You mean like tax cheats who work for the IRS?

[Sarcastr0]

This isn't creative destruction. This is just destruction.

You know, burn it all down?

You can't claim this is like the private sector and then say unhinged shit like that.

You hostile to the government because you're like a housecat who thinks your life and its comforts are due purely to your personal merits, and society and it's instruments got nothin' to do with it.

it can probably be done better by AI
Not even vibes, just fairy dust.

[Armchair]

"You know, burn it all down?"

You supported this. You supported the Democrats not approving a clean continuing resolution. You supported holding the government hostage for political gain.

[Sarcastr0]

No one's buying it, Armchair.

Or at least as of the last polling most of the country isn't buying it.

You may want to talk to your compatriots who are openly stoked about a shutdown, and Trump who is just posting racist memes about Dems.

[Armchair]

"Sarcastr0 1 week ago
3. The Dems do want a fight - their opinion polling has been in the toilet because of how supine they've been. In a rare show of political instincts, the issue they chose to contend is cuts to Medicaid and the ACA subsidies...the Dems for once chose their issue well. Hence your not getting into it with 'more than a trillion dollars worth of spending.'"

You supported this shutdown. Now you're paying the price. Own it.

[ThePublius]

Let me summarize nearly all of Sarcastr0's posts:

You're this,...
You said, ...
You, you, you, ...
Vibes.

[Sarcastr0]

Just because you don't understand the criticism doesn't mean it's bad.

But allow me to attempt to show you with an example:

Below where you claim Portland is a hellzone and their ICE office is under continual siege and multiple people responded with actual links showing you you're full of shit?

That's vibes vs. facts.

You lost that exchange really hard. But you're so deeply into vibes, I'm not even sure you know. Facts have no effect on you, other than sending you to Google to find right-wing opinion pieces agreeing with you.

[ThePublius]

But I'm not full of shit. The facility IS under nightly attacks.

[Sarcastr0]

The George Costanza defense: it's not a lie if you believe it.

That was comedy about George being a terrible person.
It is not an actual defense.

Curating your ignorance is a kind of willful blindness, and you're still responsible even if you delude yourself into believing the unsupported MAGA slop.
They're not even trying to make a convincing counternarrative; with followers like you, no need for the effort.

[JohnSmith97]

Shorter Sarcastro: you are lying, because all my hard left sources say nothing of the sort is going on.

Maybe move on to sources that don't declare riots with arson going on to be "mostly peaceful"

[Sarcastr0]

John, the carnage of sources vs. vibes starts here:
https://reason.com/volokh/2025/10/03/friday-open-thread-41/?comments=true#comment-11231231

Most of the links are to movies and camera feeds; not sure what's hard left about visual recordings.
There's also an eyewitness posters who lives in Portland. I presume he's an Antifa agent covering up the vast urban war zone?

[Kazinski]

Rather ridiculous take, the economy much like an ocean liner and doesn't zig zag around like a speed boat.

Government jobs are completely divorced from the economy.

And as Sarcastro will tell you that looking at the M/M figures is of very little value.

But the stock market is still open, and is setting a new record today.

[Sarcastr0]

Good lord you're terrible at economics. You refuse to read any experts and you autodidact act is so biased it's like you actively don't want to learn.

M/M doesn't matter...unless it shows something seismic. The kind of thing that wouldn't be swallowed up in the M/M noise.

But don't worry there are no numbers right now so that means nothing is real.

[Kazinski]

The reason why M/M numbers matter is because they are the latest data point, and as such when everyone is looking at them to point to what direction the number may be going they do sometimes get do too much attention until they can be either confirmed or contradicted or muddled by... the latest M/M number released next month.

And they certainly can be more useful in figuring out what is happening now, and in the near future than averaged with the numbers 9-12 months ago.

Certainly they could present the numbers a little better, a 3 month moving average for inflation or job creation could be more useful, and I am sure that is exactly what more sophisticated users do along with other custom analysis.

[Sarcastr0]

So your argument is isn't important because some day traders use it for vibes.

The second hand of the clock is not useful for figuring out what time it is.

The trend analyses are not hard to find, whether you mean GDP or unemployment or CPI - I don't know what you mean 'they could present the numbers a little better.'

[Commenter_XY]

Loki13, they can all learn to code. Easy peasy. 😉

[Sarcastr0]

This comment was your reply to:
"the sheer delight you seem to take in the actual suffering of fellow Americans who have done nothing wrong simply because you identify with "Team R" is something you might want to reflect on."

There is no excuse to be this soulless.

[Kazinski]

I'm have never been a big fan of Joe Biden but I have never called him soulless as you seem to be doing:

https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/476391-biden-tells-coal-miners-to-learn-to-code/

[Sarcastr0]

Was his comment in reply to someone noting how he takes pleasure in the suffering of mine workers?

Because otherwise, your comment isn't very relevant.

[jb]

"We've been told by Team D that a shutdown would be the end of the world."

You guys spend a remarkable amount of time arguing with the liberals in your head.

[Commenter_XY]

Uh, Team D (and their fellow travelers like yourself) are the ones crying to the MSM hourly. The caterwauling will increase exponentially by sundown today.

[jb]

Yes, it's definitely the Democrat "travelers" bringing it up all the time. You can tell this by who started the discussions on the topic today (Bumble) or on Wednesday (you, Kaz, Armchair).

[Mr. Bumble]

FU jb. It's been the only thing that team D has talked about, except it isn't gaining much traction outside of the echo chamber.

[jb]

Seems to be gaining a lot of traction since you guys keep bringing it up and the Trump administration is doing stuff like altering National Park websites to try to bring attention to it.

Maybe you're thinking about the wrong echo chamber?

[Mr. Bumble]

"... is doing stuff like altering National Park websites to try to bring attention to it."
???

[jb]

My bad. It's actually the Forest Service website:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/

The Radical Left Democrats shut down the government. This government website will be updated periodically during the funding lapse for mission critical functions. President Trump has made it clear he wants to keep the government open and support those who feed, fuel, and clothe the American people.

[Mr. Bumble]

While it may be true (The Radical Left Democrats shut down the government.) this does seem to be inappropriate for a government website.

[Randal]

Wow, if the administration has lost credibility even with the likes of Mister Bee, it's running on fumes.

[Mr. Bumble]

What a dolt. The forest service website is hardly the "administration".

[Kazinski]

God help us for discussing what the networks are discussing 24 hours a day too.

But I can't recall arguing with anyone about it. It is what it is, although I am still waiting for more layoffs.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

"You guys spend a remarkable amount of time arguing with the liberals in your head"

That comment is dead on, and priceless! Well done!

[Josh R]

We've been told by Team D that a shutdown would be the end of the world.

Citations?

I can't remember many comments about the impact of the shutdown. It seems most of the focus has been on what the Democrats want to end the shutdown.

[David Nieporent]

We've been told by Team D that a shutdown would be the end of the world.

No, you have not been. Why invent such stupid strawmen?

[Mr. Bumble]

No, we've been told that a Trump second term would be the end of the world.

[Randal]

So far, that prediction seems to be on track.

[Bwaaah]

Randal, above, is not a straw man. As he said: "So far, that prediction seems to be on track."

He's pretty typical.

[Joe_dallas]

As of yesterday, the IRS was still answering the phone. Normally the IRS shuts down during government shutdowns

[Magister]

The IRS contingency plan is using funds from the Inflation Reduction Act to maintain normal operations through October 7th.

[Krychek_2]

And I'm calling bullshit. The IRS wasn't answering the phone even before the shutdown. I have an issue regarding my father in law's estate and it's the last thing that needs to happen before the estate can be closed down. I called the IRS customer service line, only to be bounced around from one recorded menu to another for five minutes before being hung up on. I called back and tried every single menu option; same drill. After spending five minutes going from one menu item to another, it hung up on me. There was literally no way to talk to a live person. I actually had to involve my congressional representative to get someone from the IRS on the phone.

I attribute this to the Elon Musk layoffs. It's fine for conservatives to say hooray, let's lay off the federal government, up until you need someone from the federal government and they're no longer there.

[Frank Drackman]

You ever talked to some one at the IRS? They make Mortimer Snerd look like Einstein.

[John 4]

So several intellectual levels above Frank Drunkman.

[Frank Drackman]

Don't hate me because I'm more talented (and better looking, richer) than you.

[bernard11]

Actually, I have talked with people at the IRS.

I'm not a CPA, but there been four or five times when I've had to deal with them over some kind of tax issue.

In all cases the agent was polite, cooperative, and helped get the matter resolved. (And no, I didn't just knuckle under and concede.)

Nobody likes the tax collector, of course, even though Jesus chose one as a disciple, but the continual GOP demonization of the agency, and its refusal to fund it properly - which would generate more revenue than it would cost - is just foolish. But hey, you guys do what you want, just don't pretend to be worried about the deficit while you pass huge tax cuts instead.

[Joe_dallas]

My experience is generally that most of the agents are polite and reasonable to deal with. There are a few rogue agents, that I periodically have to deal with. The big drop in quality of work erupted with covid which is when the IRS employees adopted the "we dont have to work and still get paid attitude." It wasnt until DOGE made the IRS employees get back into the office to work.
Quite a few still work 32 hour weeks and get paid for 40 hours.

[Mr. Bumble]

Poor you.

[DDHarriman]

That isn't new behavior by the people who work at the IRS.

[Joe_dallas]

kry - So many things wrong in your comment

A - It has absolutely nothing to do with Doge/Musk
B - the problem you described began with the covid work stoppage.
C - if the issue is with closing the estate , you are calling the wrong number
D - The hold time is ranges 30-90 minutes, with most of the time, the menu allows a call back. call very early monday or late afternoon friday are typically the best time to call

[SRG2]

Are we going to see some variation on "the shutdown is a good thing but it's the Democrats' fault"?

[Mr. Bumble]

The shutdown is the result of the failure of Congress (no matter which party had the majority) to do it's job and pass the appropriation bills necessary to fund the government.

[Frank Drackman]

They need a real Gallows on Capitol Hill.
Not saying it would be used, but like Kipling said (or was it Churchill? I think it was Churchill) nothing like the prospect of being hanged in a week to focus your mind.
And if Kipling/Churchill didn’t say it, they should have)

[SRG2]

Dr Johnson

[Frank Drackman]

Duane "The Rock" said that??? Guy is pretty erudite.

Frank

[not guilty]

Fetus fetishists are kvetching because the Food and Drug Administration has approved a second generic version of the mifepristone abortion pill. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/10/02/trump-fda-abortion-pill/

Associate Press reports:

Approval of generic drugs is typically a rote process at the FDA, with multiple copycat versions usually approved after the patent on the original drug expires. In most cases, generic drugmakers only need to show that their drug matches the ingredients and formula used in the original medication.

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-pill-mifepristone-generic-fda-trump-kennedy-7eb833cb867bc0f2fbf3c7af2ffe4bc3

As Hank Williams, Sr. famously sang:

Mindin' other people's business seems to be high-toned
I got all that I can do just to mind my own
Why don't you mind your own business?
Mind your own business
If you mind your own business
You'll stay busy all the time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZH2bmbUTl4&list=RDRZH2bmbUTl4&start_radio=1

[John F. Carr]

In other abortion pill news, the litigation that hit the Supreme Court last year is still alive. The Supreme Court said the original plaintiffs who sued in Texas lacked standing. While the case was still alive Missouri, Idaho, and Kansas intervened. This week judge Kacsmaryk ruled that their complaint was to be treated as a new action and transferred to the Eastern District of Missouri because venue was not proper in Texas. (My take: Idaho and Kansas are in more liberal circuits. Why Eastern rather than Western Missouri I don't know.) He rejected the late attempt of Texas, Florida, and Louisiana to interevene.

There are two exercises of discretion in his order:

1. Intervention in a case over which the court is later found to lack subject matter jurisdiction is treated as a new action.
2. The case is transferred rather than dismissed for improper venue.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65768749/alliance-for-hippocratic-medicine-v-us-food-and-drug-administration/?page=2

[John F. Carr]

If Trump didn't want the generic approved the FDA would have found an excuse not to approve it.

[Dr. Ed 2]

And then there is this:
https://stateline.org/2025/09/30/louisiana-issues-arrest-warrant-for-california-doctor-who-allegedly-sent-abortion-pills/

What this is going to do is put an end to reciprocity agreements on licenses.

[Frank Drackman]

Did the OB pinch your Umbilical Cord for a few minutes or do you come about your Stupidity naturally?
There's no "Reciprocity" with Medical Licenses, you gotta apply for each State's separately, and that Old Wifes Tale (have an Old Wife? consider yourself lucky) that Docs can go from State to State is just that, they've only had this "National Practitioner Data Bank" for the last 40 years or so.
OK, if a Hospital decides to keep any Mal-fee-zence (HT Chief M. Gunderson) under wraps, they're just following the great tradition of the Catholic Church. (went all the way to Rome for that reference)
Seriously, I'm beginning to think you ARE the guy shaving Pubic Hair off Cadavers (well someone has to do it)

Frank

[SRG2]

They might have overlooked it. I wouldn't be surprised if the person(s) who approved it get fired.

[Frank Drackman]

You Yankees should have "Minded your own business" in 1861, NYC, Detroit, Chicago might not have a higher murder rate than Caracas.

Frank

[gdanning]

Why parrot what is not just nonsense, but obvious nonsense? https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article291379055.html

[Riva]

The question you really should ask yourself NG is : Why do you hate unborn human life? Just mildly curious.

[Joe_dallas]

Riva - that is a good question
Why would a defense attorney be against the rights of the innocent, but defend the rights of the guilty?

[Frank Drackman]

Ask Pope Leo Light in the Loafers

[Mr. Bumble]

He's too busy blessing ice cubes.

[not guilty]

Riva, the premise of your question is wrong -- I do not "hate unborn human life." In fact, I disapprove of abortions in the absence of extraordinary circumstances such as conception resulting from rape or incest, a serious threat to maternal health or a fetal abnormality inconsistent with meaningful postnatal life.

But I do not trust government to make the decision of who should or should not bear (or beget) a child. A prohibition of legal and safe previability abortion is profoundly destructive of personal liberty -- different in degree but not in kind from the former one child policy adopted by the People's Republic of China or the forcible sterilization of Carrie Buck by the Commonwealth of Virginia.

[Riva]

My question was precisely on point, being based on your opening insult ( “fetus fetishists”). An insult that belies any respect whatsoever for unborn human life. In fact, an insult that reveals gross contempt for the unborn life. Such contempt that you don’t believe that life holds any real inherent value. That’s the same sick rationale underlying the Chinese communist practices. Spare me your pathetic attempt to project your vile pro abortion moral failings onto the pro life movement.

[Zarniwoop]

Meh, "fetus fetishist" strikes me as accurate for folks that prioritize a non-viable fetus over the mother's medical health. Might not be everyone, but it clearly strikes a nerve. Sounds like you're a fetus fetishist to me ...

When my wife was pregnant (we tried, desired the pregnancy) with a non-viable fetus, we were pretty devastated. And she got an abortion at slightly over 20 weeks (21 I think? But it's been close to 2 decades).

We tried again, had a great kiddo before it would have been possible if she'd been forced by fetus fetishists such as yourself to give birth to a non-viable baby.

It sucked, it was painful, and it was absosmurfly the correct decision.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Meh, "fetus fetishist" strikes me as accurate for folks that prioritize a non-viable fetus over the mother's medical health."

You are, of course, entitled to believe that people who hold certain views deserve to be insulted.

I know someone who chose to give birth to a non-viable baby. I would be ticked off if someone called her a fetus fetishist.

[Riva]

My comments addressed the inherent sanctity and value of unborn human life and the vile practice of abortion, a procedural purposely directed at ending the unborn human life. Bypassing the actual issue raised, you want to discuss other issues like “non-viable” fetuses and so called medically necessary abortions. An abortion is never medically necessary, by the way. Even in the extremely rare cases of ectopic pregnancies treatment is intended to save the life of the mother, not to kill the unborn child.

But an inconvenienced mother is not suffering a medical emergency. Nor does this render the unborn human life either “non-viable” or less than human.

[not guilty]

Aborting an ectopic pregnancy (which necessarily and purposefully destroys the embryo) is not medically necessary??

Is that as true as everything else you have said, Riva?

[Riva]

Yes, because abortion is a procedure directed purposely at ending an unborn life. Treatment for an ectopic pregnancy is intended to save the life of a mother and possibly the unborn child, which unfortunately is usually already dead. But this is a side issue introduced to distract from my comments.

As noted above, an inconvenienced mother is not suffering a medical emergency. Nor does this render the unborn human life either “non-viable” or less than human. And my comment above reflected on your disregard for the inherent value of unborn human life. Something for which you have yet to make a response.

[not guilty]

Is aborting an ectopic pregnancy medically necessary, Riva? Yes or no?

[Riva]

I’ve already explained to you that treatment for an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion.

Now again, as noted above, an inconvenienced mother is not suffering a medical emergency. Nor does this render the unborn human life either “non-viable” or less than human. And my comment above reflected on your disregard for the inherent value of unborn human life. A topic you desperately want to avoid.

[not guilty]

Riva, you are so full of shit that if you are given an enema, your remains will likely fit in a cigar box.

The only treatment for an ectopic pregnancy is to abort the embryo. Whether you call that an abortion or not matters not one whit.

And a non-viable fetus is one which is unable to survive outside of the mother's body. Zygotes and embryos are always non-viable. When one of these becomes a fetus, it becomes a non-viable fetus. When it develops to the point that it can survive outside of the mother's body, it becomes a viable fetus.

You don't get to choose your own definitions, doofus, whether that be "abortion," "non-viable" or "evasion". On every matter where you have asked my opinion, I have frankly stated my opinion.

But remember that it is just that -- a personal opinion. My opinion as to whether a particular individual should or should not have an abortion does not matter unless and until a woman or girl facing or contemplating a pregnancy asks me for that opinion -- and then it is entitled to only such weight as she chooses to give it.

[Riva]

Someone who wants to redefine certain humans as mere potential humans or even less in order to facility their extermination is complaining about definitions?

My definition of human tracks biological reality. Your variations of humanity? Nothing really except the preferences of the state, like the Chinese communist party you mentioned a while back. Sounds like you'd get along famously with them.

[not guilty]

Riva, you have no clue as to what I am thinking. Don't even try reading my mind. Fetuses are precious, but the already born busybodies who try to control other folks' reproductive lives are contemptible.

I do value fetal life, but the fetus is not the only creature whose well being is worthy of respect. The appropriate question is who decides.

I agree with Bill Clinton's formulation of the moral precept that abortion prior to viability should be safe, legal and rare.

Riva, do you believe that Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 200 (1927) ("Three generations of imbeciles are enough."), was rightly decided? That case involved no fetus, but ceding power to the government to decide who is or is not permitted to decide whether or not to bear or beget a child is tyranny.

[Riva]

Not so "precious" so as to have any real inherent value to you as a human life apparently. It's not a "creature" or potentially human. A conceived life is by definition a human life. Something you devalue when the pregnancy proves inconvenient. Try honestly addressing the issue for once.

[not guilty]

Riva, do you believe that Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 200 (1927), was rightly decided?

[Riva]

No it wasn’t but not quite sure how that relates to the question you have such difficulty answering. Is an embryo a human life having inherent value?

[not guilty]

An embryo is potential human life, which indeed does have inherent value. That is why I oppose abortion prior to viability in the absence of extraordinary circumstances. But feti über alles is not, in my opinion, a morally viable position. The governmental interest in preserving fetal life is one factor to be weighed in the balance of liberty.

A tadpole is amphibian life, with the potential to become a frog, but it is not a frog.

But if deciding who reproduces or not is within the proper ambit of government, how was Buck v. Bell wrongly decided?

[Riva]

“Potentially human life”? How is it the mere potential of human life? What substantively differentiates the unborn life from every other human life on the planet? Same DNA. Is it the need for nutrients or shelter? Is it age? Can we use that as a rationale to exterminate people?

And value? Now we’re back to your asserting a vague government interest to ban abortion to protect a life that is somehow quasi-human. What wonderful a recipe for individual freedom. As long as the state qualifies you as something human with value. If you’re just “potentially human “ or not even that, then you’re shit out of luck and it’s open season.

[not guilty]

Riva, when human life begins is a metaphysical question which does not have a political answer. I am not so arrogant as to claim that I know when offspring become fully human. For example, the author of Genesis wrote that the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Genesis 2:7 RSV)

Humans undeniably do experience a metamorphosis from being a zygote to being viable. If you dispute that, it says more about your grasp of reality than anything else. Do you regard a fertilized ovum, which naturally fails to implant in the uterus and is washed away in the menstrual flow, to be a microscopic "human being"?

The governmental interest in preserving fetal life is important, but so is the individual's liberty interest in the freedom to determine whether to bear a child. I am comfortable with viability as the fulcrum between the two.

If a state legislature were to require a funeral and burial for every feminine hygiene product after use thereof, on the off chance that one may contain a microscopic "human being," would you regard that as overreaching, Riva?

[Riva]

DNA is not metaphysics. It's rooted in science and biology.

But even assuming that the question is only a matter of metaphysics (so much for the party of "science," where's the personification of science Fauci when you need him), this would render your previous rants somewhat hard to understand. You want the state to define what a potential human life is when regulating a safe, legal and rare abortion agenda. How is it that the state possess such arcane metaphysical knowledge? Let's hope they share the secret of life with us all soon.

[not guilty]

"You want the state to define what a potential human life is when regulating a safe, legal and rare abortion agenda."

No, Riva, I don't want the state involved in the abortion decision prior to viability, as I have said previously.

You illustrate what Ron White says:

If your eyes go bad, you can have LASIK surgery and they can give you 20/20 vision at any age. If your hearing starts to fail, they can put a device in your ear that'll make you able to hear as good as you could the day you were born. But let me tell you something, folks. You can't fix stupid. There's not a pill you can take. There's not a class you can go to. Stupid is fo'evah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDvQ77JP8nw

[Riva]

You try to refute the proposition by reaffirming your position that the state should redefine certain humans as mere potential humans or even less in order to facilitate their extermination. This time by inserting “viability” in some weird restatement of the discredited Roe rationale.

But I think we’re done here. You’re either honestly too dim to grasp your own contradictions, or deranged, or just a sick pathetic person playing games.

[neurodoc]

Buck v. Bell was a fraud perpetrated by the State of Virginia on the court. Carrie Buck was effectively framed as a mental defective, which was not established medical fact, who if allowed to reproduce would produce imbeciles. So if any SCT decision ever deserved no respect whatsoever, that would be it.

[Zarniwoop]

When my spouse was pregnant with a non-viable fetus, that wasn't the question that *anyone* asked her (or me, for that matter, but she was the one making the ultimate decision).

[Riva]

So, because your wife allegedly suffered from a serious medical condition (sorry if that’s true) an embryo is not a human life having inherent value? Is that your reasoning?

[not guilty]

I don't know where Zarinwoop and his wife were when she decided to abort, but for purposes on this discussion let's hypothesize that they were in California, where the governor almost two decades ago was that paragon of moral virtue, Arnold Schwarzenegger.

In Rivaworld, why should someone like that governor have more say in Mrs. Zarinwoop's abortion decision than the parents?

[Riva]

There is no hypothetical world where any governor has ever had any say over a legitimate medically necessary life saving treatment. But that wasn't my point. Is an embryo a human life having inherent value?

[not guilty]

Uh, I wasn't limiting my comment to medically necessary life saving treatment, Riva.

When a state legislature prohibits abortion, the governor either signs or vetoes the bill.

You are comfortable with folks like Elliot Spitzer, Arnold Scwarzenegger and Andrew Cuomo having that kind of control over their constitutents' lives. I find that to be tyrannical.

If a young woman facing an unwanted pregnancy came to you for advice as to whether to carry to term, would you say to her, "I'm sorry, dear. You are incompetent to make that decision. Go ask the governor and do whatever (s)he says"?

[Riva]

The lying evasions are getting a little dizzying. From a fetus is “precious” to Clinton’s safe, legal, and rare. And now, despite professing support for government policies making abortion rare, it’s no young woman should ever have to carry a baby to term. So much for rare.

But in all these evasive contortions of bullshit, still no answer to my very simple question. Is an embryo a human life having inherent value?

[not guilty]

Again, Riva, if a young woman facing an unwanted pregnancy came to you for advice as to whether to carry to term, would you say to her, "I'm sorry, dear. You are incompetent to make that decision. Go ask the governor and do whatever (s)he says"?

[Riva]

Are we discussing a human life or your undefined “potential” humans?

[not guilty]

Is your vehicle also a dodge, Riva?

[Riva]

And, again a side issue, but in case you misunderstand: medically necessary and abortion are mutually exclusive terms.

[not guilty]

"And, again a side issue, but in case you misunderstand: medically necessary and abortion are mutually exclusive terms."

Not true, Riva. Except to Humpty Dumpty in Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass (1871).

Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously said that everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. He may as well have added, to his own definitions.

[Riva]

I repeat. In all your evasive contortions of bullshit above, still no answer to my very simple question. Is an embryo a human life having inherent value?

[not guilty]

I have answered that question time and again, Riva. You just don't like my answer.

But to elaborate on the opinion which I have expressed, the value of an embryo is in its potential to develop and grow into a fully formed human. It is "inherent[ly]" a clump of cells.

[Randal]

https://jewishinsider.com/2025/10/fbis-kash-patel-attacks-adl-as-extreme-group-functioning-like-a-terrorist-organization/

Ah hahahahahahahaha lol.

It's all fun and fascism until you're the one in the gas chamber (again).

[Kenneth Almquist]

Apparently the problem is that James Comey thinks that hate crimes against Jews are bad, and we all know that James Comey is evil because he refused to go along with Trump’s every whim. MAGA won’t have to pretend to believe that anti-Semitism is wrong any more.

Here is a speech that Comey gave at an ADL conference (starting at the 3:20 mark). It’s pretty good.

https://www.c-span.org/program/public-affairs-event/anti-defamation-league-conference-fbi-director-james-comey/477840

[hobie]

HaHa! Yeah, I've been reading about MAGA's all out attack on the ADL.

For the benefit of you hayseeds that don't read, the ADL has - for years - labelled Charlie Kirk's Turning Point as an extremist group. MAGA finally noticed and have turned on them. In response, ADL removed the page on Turning Point. I went ahead and looked at the deleted page on the Wayback Machine (www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

It is a massive dossier of all the avowed antisemites and neo-nazis that occupy the highest echelons of Turning Point chapters across the nation. It chronicles Turning Point's bent toward white Christian nationalism and the the threat that has historically posed towards the world's jewry. So the ADL squawked, and now MAGA has turned on them, and the prosemitic masquerader is over.

I've been telling all the Jewish frogs here that giving that MAGA scorpion a ride is going to backfire. Now you've been stung and are croaking, 'But you promised me!'. And the MAGA scorpion says, 'Yet you knew I was a white Christian nationalist all along.'

[Brett Bellmore]

The ADL has been under fire for a couple decades at least, over their habit of labeling anybody who doesn't share their politics as a "hate group".

[hobie]

"their habit of labeling anybody who doesn't share their politics as a "hate group"."

Why does that sound familiar, Brett?

[Brett Bellmore]

Because it's been going on for a couple decades at least, like I said.

[hobie]

Be that as it may, what exactly did the ADL get wrong about all the neo-nazis in the Turning Point organization?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Ummm, that there are any????

[hobie]

Why don't you go and read the ADL's dossier. It has all the receipts

[Ska]

Because the SPLC does something similar?

Edit: I could have scrolled one reply down.

[Randal]

And they spent the last few years cozying up to MAGA and alienating everyone else, only for this to happen. Now they have no one.

[Michael P]

The ADL is not as bad about that as the SPLC.

That they're remotely close is a bad reflection on the ADL.

[Brett Bellmore]

That's true, the ADL is a legit organization with some bad habits, the SPLC is just an extortion ring at this point.

[not guilty]

Brett, whom is the Southern Poverty Law Center "extorting," and how?

I don't think the word extortion means what you seem to think it means.

[hobie]

Y'all are are obviously angry that both organizations hold up the mirror of hate and MAGA's ugly reflection appears. But I don't understand why you'd be angry about being labelled white Christian nationalists? Isn't that exactly what you proudly are?

[Brett Bellmore]

Hobie, the SPLC's "Hatewatch" had an online directory of 'hate groups'. At one time that list literally included a guy who sold dried beans on it, because he'd had the nerve to advertise in a survivalist magazine.

[hobie]

I don't know why the Jews at the ADL are all bent out of shape over white Christian nationalism. I mean, every Christian nationalist movement since the Dark Ages has always turned out peachy for Jews.

[loki13]

Nobody expects the Sp... the Trump Administration!

[Brett Bellmore]

The people at the ADL are all bent out of shape over ANYBODY who disagrees with them about ANYTHING.

Prolife? You're a hate group.
Pro-gun? You're a hate group.
Want immigration laws enforced? You're a hate group.

You know how you avoid the ADL saying you're a hate group? Just agree with them about everything.

[hobie]

Like I told Ed above. The receipts are all there in the dossier...all you have to do is look.

[neurodoc]

How about a link to what you would have us consider?

(I don't need one to convince me that inclusion of Kirk on a list of those who have championed ugly ideas is justifiable.)

[Brett Bellmore]

"those who have championed ugly ideas"

And, that's what I mean by the only way to avoid the ADL saying you're a hate group is to agree with them. What's the definition of "ugly ideas" here?

Ideas you disagree with.

[shawn_dude]

Republicans didn't like the list because their favorite forms of hate could get their favorite groups listed. Racism, homophobia, transphobia, you name it. If the GOP used a particular type of bigotry to raise political money, they got bent out of shape if someone noted it on a list.

[TwelveInchPianist]

I never understood how libs reconcile the dissonance between their objections to the TPUSA "Professor Watchlist" and their acceptance of the lists that ADL and SPLC kept.

[shawn_dude]

Professors are individuals. The ADL and SPLC were largely limited to organizations that devote significant effort to hurting other Americans because of their race, religions, national origin, sexual orientation, etc.

I'm sure the KKK appreciates your defense of their victimhood, though.

[TwelveInchPianist]

The SPLC has a list of individuals.

Nice try though.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

The dissonance is people on the left having to defend horrible things like James Comey or the ADL just because Trump seems not to like them. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while.

[Frank Drackman]

You’ll find this funny Hobie-Stank, one of the Senior Surgeons always claims membership in scores of organizations on his CV, except instead of “ADL” he put it as “JDL”.
And as someone who has Meir Kahane right up there with Moshe Dayan and (Dr) Baruch Goldstein as Heroes/Role Models, I had to bust his balls about it.
“Yeah, it’s that group that protects you guys” he said
He was actually correct and didn’t know it.

Frank

[bernard11]

That link doesn't work for me, Hobie. It just takes me to the main ADL page.

Is there a typo?

[hobie]

you have to go to the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine and plug the URL in there

[Kazinski]

A liberal Jewish lesbian is taking over as chief editor of CBS news, and you would think the Nazi's are marching into Paris all over again.

[Brett Bellmore]

They aren't?

[Frank Drackman]

Well, they're A-rabs, they haven't really got that "Marching" thing down yet.

[Dr. Ed 2]

LEFTIST -- that Delta Charlie is way to closed minded to be considered "liberal".

[Mr. Bumble]

Wasn't it you who chastised someone for using "dumb cunt"?
You think expressing the same thought by using the phonetic alphabet is OK?

[Frank Drackman]

Well Dr. Ed didn't go into Ed-jew-ma-cation because he's intelligent. Seriously, after the "Incident" in his previous job of shaving off the Pubic Hair of Cadavers, he's lucky to be working anywhere.

[TwelveInchPianist]

So... There's an opening?

[John F. Carr]

President Trump has fulfilled his duty to notify Congress when he starts a war. The NYT broke the story in a paywalled article. Here is the AP's report:

https://apnews.com/article/trump-cartels-armed-conflict-cb57804807e55a00ace60ad5f4d4f24d

"The President determined that the United States is in a non-international armed conflict with these designated terrorist organizations"

[windycityattorney]

This is batshit insane. Unfortunately its only like the 14th batshit insane thing in the last week so it goes under the radar.

This administration is skirting international war crime territory and its just like... just another Tuesday.

Says a lot about the current administration and its odious behavior.

[shawn_dude]

We shouldn't be giving the rest of the GOP a break here. I know it's easy to focus on just Trump and his administration, but he could not be successful if the GOP-controlled Congress and Supreme Court wasn't marking in lock-step behind him.

Voting for Republican representatives in State and Federal congresses is a major part of what makes this possible.

[John F. Carr]

A California jury ruled for Uber in a bellwether case for thousands of similar sexual assault claims. The plaintiff testified she had PTSD after an apparent rape attempt in an Uber. The driver groped her but couldn't get her pants off.

Plaintiff's lawyer suggested Uber should have had video surveillance or assigned female drivers to female passengers. The jury found Uber was negligent but Uber's negligence was not the cause of the woman's injury. A quote in the Bloomberg law article suggests comparative negligence was in play. Plaintiff's lawyer complained "the court allowed evidence into the trial that let Uber blame [plaintiff] for the harm she faced."

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/30/technology/uber-sexual-assualt-bellwether-lawsuit.html
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/litigation/uber-defeats-passenger-sexual-assault-case-in-bellwether-trial

[Mr. Bumble]

Mr. Bumble 36 minutes ago

E. Jean Carroll takes Uber?
Mistakenly posted below.

[Bob from Ohio]

"assigned female drivers to female passengers"

Seems like that would be illegal discrimination.

[John F. Carr]

Seems like it would be. It is also a serious proposal.

When Massachusetts courts determined that gyms reserved for women violated state antidiscrimination laws the legislature changed the law.

[Kazinski]

But I'm sure they still allow men pretending to be women into women's gyms, and to pretend they are women when they are driving women around.

[Mr. Bumble]

...and a federal judge will give a lighter sentence to a would be assassin for claiming to be a woman.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2025/10/would-be-kavanaugh-assassin-gets-lenient-sentence-after-pleading-trans/

[John F. Carr]

In a non-precedential order the Second Circuit ruled that Italian-American plaintiffs have standing to sue over not seeing a statue of Columbus that used to stand in Wooster Square Park, New Haven. Environmental plaintiffs can sue over not seeing a swamp that looks the way they think a swamp can look. The same principle applies here.

But Italian-Americans do not have a property interest in seeing the statue. The City of New Haven was allowed to remove the statue without giving residents notice or opportunity to be heard. It looks like city officials wanted to present a fait accompli. And they succeeded. Judgment for the city on the merits.

https://secondcircuitcivilrights.blogspot.com/2025/09/italian-american-organization-cannot.html

[Commenter_XY]

Are we fighting an undeclared war = cartel druggies in the Caribbean

I don't have too much of an issue with our military sending druggies and their boats to Davey Jones' locker in int'l waters. Provided, the boats are really full of drugs and thugs.

Suppose Venezuela or Colombia decide to send naval escorts with the druggie boats. Are the escorts fair game? What does the law say?

FWIW, I don't think we can legally sink the escorts absent an attack on US military.

[Randal]

Why would we be able to legally sink the alleged drug boats but not their escorts?

[Commenter_XY]

You tell me. Make the case that we can sink the druggie boats but not foreign military escorts.

[Randal]

Why should I make that case? You're the one who thinks it. I don't think we can legally sink either.

[Commenter_XY]

Be flexible intellectually, and make the case. That is what I am asking.

I don't think the US can go after the escorts unless fired upon.

The druggie boats are a different matter. They're in Int'l waters, carrying illegal drugs to the US. After the druggies are warned to heave to, and refuse, they become fair game. Tough luck, fellas. Seems legal, too - waxing the druggies.

[Randal]

If I were Sarcastr0 I'd say your legal opinions are vibe-based, but I think that's too generous. Really they're based on your sense of whose lives have value and whose don't. Alleged drug traffickers, kill em, no questions asked or warranted. But somehow you hold out respect for the officials on the escorts and want to extend some grace to them, even though they're corruptly aiding said traffickers. What a weirdly misplaced respect for authority you have. I guess it explains your Trump-worship.

One day someone will have power and no respect for your life. I guess they just get to legally kill you.

[SRG2]

XY is suffering from a case of Dutertism by Proxy.

[John F. Carr]

The Trump administration's position is that we are in an armed conflict not of an international nature. If the Navy starts blowing up Venezuelan naval vessels then the armed conflict becomes international.

It is my understanding that the alleged drug boats have not made a claim of nationality. If the alleged drug boats were flying Venezuelan flags and Venezuela acknowledged them, Venezuela would have more right to protest. Also, under U.S. domestic law vessels in international waters are not subject to drug enforcement action without the consent of the country of registry.

[Mr. Bumble]

E. Jean Carroll takes Uber?

[Mr. Bumble]

Wrong place. Moved.

[David Nieporent]

Don't worry; it's just as nonsensical in either thread.

[Frank Drackman]

Pretty sure she takes the “Unter”

[Bunny495]

"Also, under U.S. domestic law vessels in international waters are not subject to drug enforcement action without the consent of the country of registry."

The US has agreements with most (but not all) countries consenting to interdiction of drug (and to some extent people) smuggling by the US in international waters. The basis for these agreements is the Maritime Law Enforcement Agreements (MLEAs). Some notable countries declining to sign are Venezuela, Guyana, Cuba, Trinidad & Tobago in the Atlantic/Caribbean with the usual suspects like China, Iran, North Korea also not signing on. There are also some minor countries that have not signed but at times will grand ad hoc permission to interdict.

Under the MLEAs and the Treaty of San Jose there is no need to declare war for interdiction. A key point is drug/people smugglers seldom fly a flag identifying the country of origin and more to the point refuse to allow boarding and flee instead.

Not for the first I am invoking the 72 hour Trump rule; to wit: ignore anything Trump says for 72 hours. Specific to this topic while Trump may say loudly and longly he is declaring war on drug smugglers if push comes to shove in court a MLEA defense would be used and be a winner.

[windycityattorney]

Wouldn't that be something if the boats being blown up by drones were smuggling people instead of drugs?

In order to save them we had to kill them.

Heard that before?

[shawn_dude]

No sense of irony that a drug-soaked President is claiming drugs are a problem?

[not guilty]

The law says that declaring war is a prerogative reserved to Congress.

[Frank Drackman]

Missing the Declaration of Wah when Barry Hussain re-invaded Afghanistan.

[not guilty]

President Obama did not "re-invade" Afghanistan, Frank.

And even if he had done so, as the great philosopher Ernest Tubb observed, Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwNvQTe96pk&list=RDFwNvQTe96pk&start_radio=1

[Commenter_XY]

Therein lies the problem. I agree with you, NG.

Congress must address this. It would be better to address it now, before there are US casualties.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I think it's already moot -- the KC-135 tankers have gone across the pond. Were gonna be bombing Iran and then Venezuela.

And that will make all the Venezuelan illegals POWs....

[Bunny495]

Obligatory Bomb, Bomb Iran with apologies to the Beach Boys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D9LxjV3uWI

[Mr. Bumble]

Thank you Dr Chickenhawk.
Will you be seeking a waiver for age and enlisting?

[Frank Drackman]

You heard Secretary Hedge-Sex,
"No more Dudes in Dresses"

Frank

[John F. Carr]

War with Venezuela will make them enemy aliens, not POWs.

[Mr. Bumble]

I think someone spiked Dr. Ed's coffee this morning (more so than usual).

[David Nieporent]

And that will make all the Venezuelan illegals POWs....

It would not, in fact, do any such thing.

[TwelveInchPianist]

It doesn't say it's reserved to Congress. But in any event, what's the argument that a declaration of war is necessary in these cases?

Especially given the decline of importance of declarations of war in international law over the past two centuries.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Anyone know how many inches of global warming fell yesterday?

[Frank Drackman]

Probably not as much as what’s left of your IQ

[ReaderY]

It seems to me that states with strict abortion aws have standng to challenge the FDA approval of geneneric mefipristone on two very obvious groonds.

1. The FD&C act requires drugs to he safe for humans in order to be approvable. Fobbs makes clear that fetuses are humans, but merely don’t have the constitutional rights of persons (just as extraterritorial aliens are humans but don’t have the constitutional rights of persons). Because abortifacients are not safe for them, they are prohibited by the FD&C Act.

Indeed, the fact that the FDA protects experimental subjects outside the US yet allows abortifacients represents aa anomaly in its interpretation of the act that has no legitimate legal basis after Dobbs and Agency for International development.. If its authority is limited to esuring the safety of persons, it has no authority to concern itself with the safety of experimental subjects outside the US. If its authority encompasses the safety of humans generally, it has no authority to approve abortifacients.

2. The Comstock Act restricts interstate commerce in a abortifacients, and the FD&C Act must be interpreted in harmony with it.

In the GenBioPro lawsuit, West Virginia chose not to challenge federal approval but simply argue that its abortion laws were not inconsistent with it. But a more aggressive state could. Standing would be obvious. Federal approval together with non-enforcement of the Comstock Act tends to result in abortifacients entering the state by mail and interferes with its ability to enforce its laws.

[hobie]

It helps to look at the fetus as an occupant of a womb boat, and mefipristone as the drone missile. When we cheapen our concept of life in that way, we can proverbially get away with murder.

[John F. Carr]

I think the states have standing simply because their laws are preempted or otherwise interfered with. You can have standing and still have a losing argument on the merits.

[ReaderY]

I think that the 4th Circuit’s decision in GenBioPro v. Raynes was generally correct. That case held that federal approval of mifepristone does not pre-empt West Virginia’s ban on it.

However, while I think a preemption argument fails, I think that some of GenBioPro’s arguments that West Virginia’s ban has practical effects that interfere with federal approval are perfectly good arguments to show that federal approval has practical effects that interfere with West Virginia’s ban. As I said above, West Virginia chose a narrower approach that argued against preemption without challenging federal law. But a more aggressive state could use GenBioPro’s arguments as a basis for standing to challenge the approval itself if it wanted to.

[apedad]

"The FD&C act requires drugs to he safe for humans in order to be approvable."

Not quite.

The FD&C act requires drugs to be safe for humans - FOR THEIR INTENDED USE - in order to be approvable.

That's why abortion and execution drugs still go through the approval process.

[DDHarriman]

Can't doctors lose their licenses for prescribing drugs for off-label uses? Or is that a on state-by-state basis?

[Frank Drackman]

"for prescribing drugs for off-label uses"
Nope, that's why we're Doctors, we're smarter than the Poindexter Pharmacologists, CDC (Center for Disease Continuation) Docs who haven't seen a Patient who wasn't in a Test Tube...
You know what works great for Aphthous Ulcers???("Canker Sore" to you Lay-Peoples, and not the Herpes Queenie gets)
Quick Oral (love Oral) Prednisone Taper, 60mg for 2 days 40mg for 2 days, 20mg for 2 days and your Aphthous Ulcer will vanish faster than the Cincinnati Reds in the Playoffs...
Actually you could probably stop after the first 2 days, we prescribe the whole "Taper" so your Adrenals won't think they're "Non Essential" and take a permanent Sabbatical to Katmandu,
Oh, and because we've been taught to do it that way.

Now your Dr. Faux-chi's will say (Pointy Poindexter Voice)
"Dere's no Wandom Bwund Cwinical Trials that show Prednisone works bettah dan Pla-Cee-Bwow!!!"
Except it works, it's how the humble Aspirin became part of the "A" in treating ACS (current trendy acronym for "Heart Attack")

Frank

[David Nieporent]

Can't doctors lose their licenses for prescribing drugs for off-label uses?

Not per se, no. It is perfectly legal to prescribe and use drugs for off-label use. To be sure, they can lose their licenses for prescribing drugs without a medical basis — a doctor can't prescribe chemo to someone with a torn ACL, to pick a silly example — but off-label and without a medical basis are not remotely the same thing.

[ReaderY]

GenBioPro v. Raynes held that West Virginia could not just de-license but prosecute doctors for using mifepristone for its on-label use. It held that the FDA does not regulate or interfere with state regulation of prescribing decisions for approved drugs, and this cuts both ways. States can choose to permit doctors to prescribe drugs for off-label uses. But they can also choose to prohibit doctors from prescribing them entirely, including for on-label uses. It noted court cases holding that federal approval of horsemeat and uranium mining does not prohibit states from banning them. It said that drugs work similarly. It also cited a recent Surene Court case saying that California can prohibit pork from pigs raised in a way it regards as immoral despite USDA approval of this meat. While West Virginia’s concepts of morality may be different from Caifornia’s, it is nonetheless similarly entitled to prohibit abortifacients that it regards as immmoral despite FDA approval of them.

[ReaderY]

In your opinion, could the FDA approve a date rape drug as safe for the intended use of temporarily relieving symptoms of sexual addiction? Could it approve a poison for relief of depression caused by a marital probems, or as a means of obtaining fresh organs for organ transplant? Both would be perfectly safe in humans FOR THEIR INTENDED USE. That is, if intended use is as qualifying a term as you claim it is.

Also, you are factually wrong on a very important point. The FDA does NOT approve execution drugs. They are considered not to be “drugs,” and outside the scope of its authority.

https://www.justice.gov/olc/opinion/whether-food-and-drug-administration-has-jurisdiction-over-articles-intended-use-lawfu-0

[Zarniwoop]

could the FDA approve a date rape drug as safe for the intended use of temporarily relieving symptoms of sexual addiction?

Got an example you wish to float?

Could it approve a poison for relief of depression caused by a marital probems, or as a means of obtaining fresh organs for organ transplant?

Oh hey, you DO provide examples! Awesome.

They're frackin' ridonkulous.

If science actually supports the FDA approval ... the FDA can approve an "intended use" of the drug. Your examples are not that.

Asking "could the FDA approve LSD for dandruff" is not really a useful question. You're just using more loaded words (involving sex! oh noes, SEX!) without reference to how the science actually works.

How about an actual example: Rohypnol (aka "roofies") is a known "date rape" drug that's FDA approved as a Sch. IV medication under the CSA. Do you think doctors hand it out like candy for sexual addiction, poisoning people, or obtaining organs for transplant?

What's your point, other to demonstrate your fundamental lack of understanding about the CSA, drug science generally, how drugs are approved by the FDA, and what "intended uses" are?

[ReaderY]

We aren’t dealing with a drug approved for something else that is used off label for abortions. We are dealing with drugs intended as abortifiacients.

That makes the drug unsafe when used for its intended use. When used as intended, it tends to kill fetuses.

Prior to Roe, nobody would have doubted that fetal safety was something Congress had very much in mind when it amended the FD&C Act after the thalidomide scandal. Harm to fetuses was a key part of what thidomide did, and hence was part of the harm Congress was intending to prevent.

Between Roe and Dobbs, such considerations became irrelevant. Giving effect to any such Congressional intent would have been unconstitutional. The FD&C Act had to be reread in light of Roe.

But after Dobbs, “safety” again means what Congress intended.

[Michael P]

Why are states issuing commercial drivers licenses with "no name given" or FNU/LNU (first/last name unknown) placeholders? Very few of the given names are characteristic of the places where it's common to have just one name.

https://x.com/maybedanielleee/status/1973427108153012331

[Mr. Bumble]

It's the slippery slope. Why are states issuing DLs to illegal aliens?

[jb]

Doesn't that Tweet say that they have visas (how else would there be a visa expiration date)?

[John F. Carr]

The old regulations required a person to be legally present when issued a license. Come here on a 90 day visa and get a 10 year license. The recent emergency regulations require the license to expire when the immigration documents do.

[Mr. Bumble]

So now a Tweet by an internet rando is authoritative.
Visas are issued without names?
Asking for a friend.

[jb]

Tweets by randos on the Internet are indeed not authoritative. But since that's the tweet we seem to be basing this whole discussion on, not sure where else you're getting the idea that CDLs are being issued to undocumented immigrants.

[hobie]

Like the fantasy that dems are trying to give healthcare to immigrants, just let these people work out these phantoms they keep creating. Our job is to observe and giggle.

[ThePublius]

That's not a fantasy at all, it's the truth. You guys think that if you keep lying about it that people will believe what you say.

[loki13]

The small problem with your assertion is that you were the one that was caught lying in the comments yesterday.

Again, either you can educate yourself, or you can keep repeating the lies you were told and choose to defend them. Personally, I prefer to have integrity.

[Michael P]

Because they're killing the Americans that Americans won't kill. Washington state is investigating why they gave this guy a CDL before Cali did:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illegal-immigrant-trucker-accused-killing-three-people-failed-english-road-sign-tests-dot

It's not clear whether this guy is an illegal immigrant or just absolutely unqualified.

https://www.fox7austin.com/news/i-35-deadly-multi-vehicle-crash-solomun-weldekeal-araya-indictment

It's a problem that is closely linked to the original Twit:

https://ocpathink.org/post/independent-journalism/no-name-given-oklahoma-nabs-125-illegal-immigrant-drivers

[David Nieporent]

Did the CDL holders receive the required training and pass the necessary tests to qualify them for CDLs? If so, what does their immigration status have to do with anything?

[Mr. Bumble]

" If so, what does their immigration status have to do with anything?"
And therein lies the rub. Unless they a legal present in this country they should not be receiving a drivers license, let alone a CDL.

[Mr. Bumble]

are legally

[David Nieporent]

But why? The purpose of issuing drivers' licenses is to ensure that people can drive safely. It is not to ensure that people pay child support, or that they are citizens, or anything else.

[Michael P]

Apparently not, because at least the first guy failed post-accident testing on road signs, and English illiteracy seems to be a common problem in this population.

[Michael P]

https://cdllife.com/2025/usdot-says-driver-in-florida-turnpike-crash-failed-english-language-proficiency-assessment-other-fmcsa-findings-released/ for specifics

During FMCSA’s interview with the driver, investigators administered an English Language Proficiency (ELP) assessment in accordance with FMCSA guidance. The driver failed the assessment, providing correct responses to just 2 of 12 verbal questions and only accurately identifying 1 of 4 highway traffic signs.

[Michael P]

(There's also the fairly obvious point that we are talking about *commercial* driver's licenses, and someone who is in the country illegally isn't authorized to work here and therefore cannot be qualified to work as a commercial driver.)

[David Nieporent]

Whether he's qualified to work as a commercial driver is a different question from whether he's qualified to drive a commercial vehicle safely.

There are a few possibilities:
1. The DOT is lying. Since this is the anti-immigrant Trump administration, we can't rule that out, but we have no evidence of it at this time.
2. The CDL licensing regimen is inadequate; it's not well (enough)-designed to screen out bad drivers.
3. This guy somehow gamed the system — e.g., bribed someone to get issued a CDL.
4. ????

In none of the possibilities that come to my mind is his immigration status relevant to the problem.

[windycityattorney]

Usually its so they can get insurance so if they are involved in a crash they are covered.

[not guilty]

"Why are states issuing DLs to illegal aliens?"

Perhaps because unlicensed folks are likely to drive anyway, and a state may prefer that these drivers are eligible to purchase liability insurance.

[Stephen Lathrop]

1. The current government shutdown is shaping up as a paradoxically boring interval of political stasis, amidst a chaotically active spree of political crime. A backlog of political crimes is building for re-consideration by a new D Justice Department, operated on milder principles than Bondi/Patel, but perhaps slightly reminiscent.

2. Democratic Party leaders are desperate to find some way not to be tagged the authors of yet more national decline, but they seem actually so politically indolent that the tag fits.

3. Time to change the shutdown subject.

4. Forget blaming Trump/MAGA for wrecking the national healthcare system. That will make itself evident to everyone in due course. It does not need empty, tedious, shut-down speech-making to help it along. What it does need is political reversal, and now is a fine moment to begin.

5. What Ds should be doing is using the shut-down to announce re-focused effort on behalf of medical payments reform. Think that's ridiculous overreach? Think again. How bad will it look later, when Trump/MAGA's intended wrecking ball is on its second or third swing through the health system rubble?

6. How in pity's name can the Ds achieve anything, without political majorities to back action? Help the Rs get what they so desperately want. Ds should hand the R political majority an opportunity to blow itself up.

What the Ds ought to do now is negotiate, capitulate, and hand Trump/MAGA a gigantic poison pill, decorated to look like a huge fiscal win. Ds should solemnly hand that over as a concession, with solemn looks on their faces, with tears in their eyes, while deploying the hang-dog body language of utter defeat.

7. Thus, Ds should announce a campaign to use the shutdown, however long it lasts—pray for intransigence and durable grid-lock on negotiations—to campaign at the grass roots level, throughout states blue and red, to end Federal reimbursements for unpaid emergency room treatments. End them nationwide. Forever.

That's the proposal. Excoriate federal emergency room reimbursements as handouts to the undeserving poor. Encourage Trump/MAGA to blame illegal immigrants and poor black folks for scandalously undermining family fiscal morality, while bankrupting the nation to the tune of tens of billions, if not hundreds of billions, annually (strict accuracy on numbers never required in modern context). Mention multi-trillions over a disastrously short future interval.

Almost instantly, Trump/MAGA red state acolytes will find themselves impaled. Their choice? Actively campaign to hand big money to the undeserving poor back home, or give in to the D proposal, cut emergency room reimbursements, and court home-state political disaster. The Ds will be there to guide their R colleagues, as they struggle valiently to decide.

As for the Ds, they will get criticized too, as uncharacteristically harsh. They will have incurred the cruel political obligation to make conspicuous amends. They will have to fix in the most humiliating manner possible the damage their erstwhile leaders' cowardly capitulation to Trump/MAGA inflicted on the nation.

And so they will. By sacking their old, failed leaders, and rolling out new leadership which backs Medicare for all—a single payer solution for everyone in the nation, funded by taxes targeted with precision on the Trump/MAGA rich.

Whatever it takes to avoid making those taxes actually confiscatory can be made up by repeal of the Big Beautiful Bill's handouts to the rich. And maybe also a slight increase in deficit spending. How big the deficit increase must be will be up to Trump/MAGA politics to decide, once they get that the demand is coming from inside their own House.

They will enjoy reassurance that a foregoing partial repeal of BBB opened up plenty of budget room to work with. That will show by their own style of reckoning that no deficit increase at all will be necessary to make single payer happen for their desperate red state constituents, the actually deserving poor.

[Randal]

This all assumes that "red state constituents" vote according to their interests. That hypothesis has been proven false innumerable times.

If they want to be cut loose, let's cut 'em loose. I'd love to see 90% of my federal taxes go to my state instead. Why in the world are we still subsidizing the red states?

[Bunny495]

"What the Ds ought to do now is negotiate, capitulate, and hand Trump/MAGA a gigantic poison pill, decorated to look like a huge fiscal win."

Happy to rain on your parade. The real issue is (depending on how you do accounting) America is borrowing 42 cents of every dollar the federal government spends (and some states, especially the big blue ones, are in similar positions) to pay for things like medical care and other social programs. There is no way this is sustainable. Projections are servicing the federal debt will be one of the largest buckets in federal spending. Even before that happens the spaghetti will likely hit the fan.

At least twice in my lifetime the federal government has altered the way inflation is calculated with the intent of making the numbers look better than the reality they are measuring. Bottom line is unless there are drastic cuts in spending (read pols giving money to poor peeps for votes) there is no happy ending to this story.

[loki13]

....cool story, bruh. Seriously. Where were you when I was repeatedly trying to explain this when the GOP was ramming through the "Big Beautiful Bill?"

Let's go through this again. Shall we?

1. The "BBB" has made our disastrous finances so much worse with no hope of getting better. All the problems you are talking about? The GOP (which has all the power) specifically made them ALL WORSE.

2. I would add that the concomitant policies and the market's reaction to Trump makes the mid- and long-term outlook ... even more dire, given the rising issues with Treasuries and interest rates on the national debt.

3. 1 & 2 are why it's impossible to take this type of messaging seriously. Over and over again the GOP uses it power to make the deficit problem so much worse, and then we hear, "Oh, this actual good thing? You can't have it because of the deficit. No, this is nothing compared to what we literally just did to the deficit, and we have no desire to fix the problem or take any accountability, because we don't care about the problem- just about what we want, when we want it."

It's rinse, repeat. The last REAL opportunity that we had to do something was Obama's Grand Bargain- and do you remember what happened with that? Boehner got torpedoed because it was more important to prevent the perception of an Obama "win" (????) than to bend the curve on entitlements- you know, the thing you claim you are interested in.

[Bunny495]

All you young whippersnappers FAIL to note that Nixon (maybe the worst president in history) put deficit spending in full speed mode when he started full fiat money in America by ending silver certificates. Of course FDR started the ball rolling by eliminating the gold standard. And who can forget the Hamilton/Burr fight over the need (or lack of need) for a central bank.

It is rinse and repeat but your Obama story shows just how fashionably late you are to the party.

[loki13]

It's not being late. What, you want me to talk about Ross Perot as well? The Reagan-era deficit counter?

I brought up the Grand Bargain not because I was going through history, but because it was the MOST RECENT serious attempt to actually do something.

The fact that I have to go 2011 to come up with an example of a serious attempt to do SOMETHING (and it wasn't a panacea, but it was something, and I welcome everyone to look at the deficit and debt charts since then) says everything that needs to be said.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Bunny495 — Holy crap! The currency controversy. Still?

I had an uncle who used to recite the Cross of Gold speech while shaving. That was more than a century ago.

[Bunny495]

As I was taught in high school, those who forget history are condemned to go to summer school. Lets not forget that Jackson was able to destroy the Second Bank of the United States and for 77 years America had no central bank until the Fed came to be.

As an aside my biggest gripes about central banks in general and the Fed in particular is they tend to favor debtors over savers and often tend have to resort to QE once they reach silly low interest rates.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Bunny495 — In an all-specie economy, with credit also tightly constrained, the economy itself turns productive workers into involuntary debtors, willy-nilly. In an economy like that, all the money there is can buy all the goods there are. And that continues true whether more goods are added or not.

Thus, every increment of productive output is created less valuable than the one which preceded it. Workers who create those increments cannot afford to own them. But each increment somewhat augments the value of specie owned by others, and thus the wealth of those who have the specie.

You are theorizing at the level which gave rise to Marxism. If your views became general practice, Marxism would be better justified.

You cannot enjoy a prosperous economy if the means of exchange cannot expand in proportion to the material wealth the economy delivers. Fiat currency and bank credit both expand the means of exchange.

Hamilton understood those points, and better than almost anyone else alive, understood also the implications they held for national economic management. It was an achievement which ranks him among the greatest thinkers of his age.

[Bunny495]

Not a dis on Hamilton as a thinker but I would point out his most prominent adversary was Jefferson. It has often been said the most intelligent dinner in the White House was when Jefferson ate alone.

It is not easy to defend the current abuses that require fiat money. The current spending is exploding inflation and servicing the federal debt is not sustainable. Until the level of spending is reduced so it is less than economic growth there will be big problems.

Both fiat money and specie money have pros and cons. Thing is the current fiat money system is on a path where there is no happy ending.

[shawn_dude]

These are all just red herrings.

1. Trump term #1 he cuts taxes for the rich and for corporations so deeply it add trillions to the deficit.
2. Trump term #2 he cuts taxes for the rich again and adds trillions more to the deficit.
3. Bunny495 thinks the solution to the deficit is to cut healthcare spending.

The solution is to put taxes back to where they were in the 1970s and make people pay their share. But, if you don't want to do that, I'll take a near total elimination of Federal income taxes and let the states handle these things through their own tax schemes. That's easy for me to say because my state sends more money to the Feds than it gets back. If we had 100% of our taxes spent in state, we'd be in better shape. The red states, though, would decline even further.

[Bunny495]

Those who forget history are condemned to go to summer school. As I have often posted here and libs keep ignoring is that marginal tax rates are irrelevant. The highest marginal tax rate under Ike was over 90%, JFK lowered it, and it has been decreasing since then to thirty something percent.

What is important is tax revenue and it has stayed at ~21% of GDP during the entire post WWII economy no matter what the marginal tax rate was. The spaghetti hit the fan when Nixon ended silver certificates and America turned completely to fiat money. Look at inflation rates since Nixon screwed the pooch. They have exploded.

The problem is the federal government is spending way more money than it takes in. Cutting health care is only part of the problem. Once servicing the debt reaches the breaking point health care will be cut and the same goes for everything else.

As for your red state/blue state position I am not buying it. There is a real 'voting with their feet' movement where some producers are leaving blue states and takers are moving to blue states. Another issue often ignored is as a rule both red and blue states are blue in the bigger cities and red everywhere else. Detroit is a classic example of the auto industry leaving a heavy blue area and relocating to sunbelt red states.

Bottom line is your position on tax policy is at odds with post WWII tax history and letting states handle lots of what the federal government now does would be a disaster.

[bernard11]

At least twice in my lifetime the federal government has altered the way inflation is calculated with the intent of making the numbers look better than the reality they are measuring.

Nonsense. Making the numbers more accurate is generally not part of a plan to deceive the public.

And stop the Bellmorean nonsense about nefarious intent.

[Jmaie]

Well, I seem to remember they did change the weighting of steak and hamburger in the CPI basket of goods to reflect that folks would switch to hamburger when steak got too expensive. That seems a bit disingenuous (not speculating on the reason, just that it (may) have happened).

Having said all that, while AI backs up my memory I can't find an actual cite so it may be me or the AI that's hallucinating ;<)

[Sarcastr0]

One clue it’s good descriptive economics and not disingenuous is that they published openly what they were doing and why, along with their model and its application to past behavior.

[Jmaie]

Yes, because we can be sure the average person who hears "inflation is 2%" is sure to have looked at the source material and is aware of the change in methodology.

[Sarcastr0]

Ah yes, so BLS isn't fooling the economists who are presumably all in on the hoax.

This is a plan to fool the public. And all the science and phenomenological data they use are just doing a lot of work for a whitewashing of the REAL numbers.

Do you understand how broad an accusation you're making?

[dwb68]

I've read nothing the mainstream media on the changes to the H1B Visa lottery. Crickets from Somins blog, too.

The announcement about the 100K fee sucked up all the oxygen. Even in yesterday's wapo article about the H-1B, they neglected to mention changes in the lottery.

Curious. It's almost as if the announcement about the 100K fee was a decoy. No I don't think the 100K fee is going to happen. I do expect the changes to the visa lottery to happen.

The administration will also clamp down on offshoring of IT, finance, and legal services. It's only a question of how. I personally have grave concerns about material non-public information and private customer data being leaked offshores, where the environment is lax and it's impossible to prosecute people. Banks will tell you they have great controls around this. But I work for a bank and I know that's bullshit.

[Bunny495]

The "All In" podcast had some of the best coverage of this, along with some other sources. Off the top of my head the average salary of an HB1 guy was a tad over $US100,000 a year. On the other hand, one of the "All In" guys noted his HB1 peeps were averaging $US600,000 a year so the fee was a nothing burger to him. One of the temp employment services was providing HB1 drones with an average salary of $US40,000 a year. The "All In" podcast also covered other abuses of the HB1 system.

If the purpose of HB1 visas is to attract exceptional talent a $US100,000 fee to apply (important to note the fee is only to apply with no assurance the application will be granted) is a nothing burger if the visa is for someone being paid in the high six figures but is a nonstarter for someone only making five figures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEaAR0AqMlk

[hobie]

So why aren't we touching H-2B visas? Oh yeah...

"As visa use grows at Mar-a-Lago, what is the future of H-2B program in Palm Beach?

As President Donald Trump's administration continues its immigration crackdown, his Mar-a-Lago Club employed the highest number of temporary foreign workers sought by the private club in the past decade, according to the latest federal data.

Mar-a-Lago brought in 170 foreign temporary workers for the current fiscal year"

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/2025/09/23/as-mar-a-lago-visa-use-grows-what-is-the-future-of-h-2b-program/86295192007/

[ThePublius]

So? It's being done legally, no? What's your problem with that?

[hobie]

Nothing illegal about it. It just goes against the America First blather. Why hire antisemitic terrorist rapist Mexicans to wash dishes when there's plenty of local MAGA who would give their AR-15 at a chance to scrub the golden throne.

[John 4]

Jesus Christ, do you get sick of humiliating yourself like this?

[Bunny495]

hobie, did you even read the article you linked to. There were two links in the article that claimed supporters of H-2B were worried Trump would place more limits on H-2B. Sounds to me like that is "touching H-2B". If you have a different definition of "touching H-2B" feel free to post it.

[Magister]

"People who would be affected by touching it worrying about" is not the same as "touching it".

[dwb68]

Did you even read the article?

"During Trump’s first term, he issued an executive order that froze all temporary work visas, including the H-2B visas"

Just because he hasnt done it *yet* doesn't mean he wont do it.

It's a silly sheeple talking point that you keep repeating. I fully expect Trump to clamp down on H2B visas too. It will probably be more thought out, like the changes to the H1B visa lottery, and less susceptible to lawsuits.

[Mr. Bumble]

I wonder if EV regrets this now four day a week exercise in free speech.

[apedad]

Why?

The Open Threads are the most popular item on the VC which means lots of "hits" on the website, so lots of visibility on advertising, etc..

[Mr. Bumble]

What ads?

[Brett Bellmore]

Basically free of effort, they divert people from using the actual subject matter posts to chat. What's the downside?

[Mr. Bumble]

"...they divert people from using the actual subject matter posts to chat."
That seems to be counter to the purposes of the blog in general.

[Bunny495]

Since when has there ever been a purpose of the blog.

[Mr. Bumble]

Editorial Independence

We're a group blog, cofounded by Eugene Volokh and Alexander ("Sasha") Volokh in 2002. Almost all of us are law professors, teaching at various law schools throughout the country. We write mostly about law and public policy, though we feel free to blog about whatever else strikes our fancy.

We're generally libertarian, conservative, centrist, or some mixture of these, though we don't toe any party line, and sometimes disagree even with each other.

We are not Reason employees, and we have sole editorial control over the blog. We are very pleased to be working with the Reason people, but please don't ascribe our views to them, or vice versa. Naturally, you shouldn't ascribe our views to our employers, either, or even to the other cobloggers. Each blogger speaks only for himself or herself.

You'll also note that the tone of our posts is at times different from that of most traditional newspaper or magazine writing; this too stems from our long history as independent bloggers. Some posts are quite technical, and aimed at our lawyer readers. Many posts are more traditional news analysis, or pass along interesting new legal developments.

And some are humorous, or focus on our hobbies or cultural items that we like. You can expect the blog, as a whole, to be substantive, but individual posts sometimes won't be.

[Bunny495]

Actually Gene was the moving force in the usenet group alt.cyberia that started in the 1990s and only migrated to reason once full featured browsers took over the internet. I had some great back and froths with Godwin about Euclid v Ambler back when it was the go to for this type of discussion.

[Jmaie]

I would argue that the blog had purpose when hosted directly by our good professor...as a laymen I am none the less far more familiar with legal niceties than I would have been without the Conspiracy.

[hobie]

Pseudonymity and Josh's self-fellations can only inform so far. I welcome the open threads because this is the only comment boards that allow engagement with live MAGAs that isn't a cesspool akin to 4chan

[Estragon]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The comments here have predictive value.

Remember when Ed started talking about running over protestors and we were like “whoa, dude, wtf”

Months later Tom Cotton said it!

[hobie]

Yeah, I know.

It's all 'turning and turning in the widening gyre' all up in this bitch now.

[ducksalad]

EV wants to demonstrate that his commitment to free speech is sincere.

The open threads are Exhibit #2. Josh Blackman is Exhibit #1.

[ThePublius]

Eugene must be a pretty important guy, everywhere I go I see signs that say "EV Parking."

[Zarniwoop]

OK, that got an honest laugh outta me

[TwelveInchPianist]

I see signs that say "Green Vehicle Parking". Comes in handy when you drive a big green pickup truck.

[not guilty]

When Lane Kiffin went to coach at USC, he was married to Layla, a blonde who was quite a looker. (They have since split up.) It seems that Layla was a bit of a shopper. She couldn't understand all the hostility directed toward her husband. She reportedly said, "It seems that every store that I go to has a sign out front that says Fire Lane."

[DDHarriman]

I've always thought that EV sees these as "release valves". That these would help to keep the other comment threads on topic and the rise in open threads is a echo of a general online temperature rising.

[Michael P]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/far-left-devastating-portland-childless-164729149.html

Portland probably had it coming. No city better epitomises the increasingly radical spirit of the progressive Left. This has devastated its once vibrant downtown; liberal long-time Congressman for the area, Earl Blumenauer, has suggested that parts of it look “like Dresden in World War II”. In 2023, downtown Portland suffered the highest office vacancy rate in the nation.

[jb]

LOL

I was just in Portland a few weeks ago.

It looks like...a city. The fact you guys believe this schlock (and in your case despite the fact you work with someone who lives there and tells you the opposite!) says a lot about your (in)ability to engage with reality

[ThePublius]

You must be kidding. Don't you read the news? The city ICE detention center has been under violent siege for 100 days, and the police are doing nothing about it.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ice-director-says-portland-facility-faces-violence-little-help-from-local-police

There is violence in the streets! A machete thrown at officers, officers being attacked, nightly(!), ....

You're the one unable to engage with reality.

[loki13]

Once again, ThePublius searches for, and believes, only things that validate what he WANTS TO BE TRUE!

Did you know that gullible isn't in the dictionary?

ThePublius is intellectually incurious. He has the whole internet at his fingers. Now, he could do something really basic. He could say to himself, "Self, I don't live in Portland. I don't have friends ... any friends, and certainly not friends in Portland, that I can ask about what it's like. I genuinely do not know what it's currently like there! How would I find out if I actually wanted to know?"

And there are a number of ways he could do that. He could do some research and find reputable people in Portland that don't post about politics, and look at their websites / youtube / instagram feeds. He could find local Portland media sources that aren't political. If he had a hobby (ummm...) maybe he could reach out to a fellow person in his hobby that lived in Portland and ask them about it.

He could easily find out for himself. Or, you know, he could lecture other people that live in Portland or go to Portland or have friends in Portland that Portland has been "under violent siege for 100 days" because he's ThePublius, and while he might not live there or know anyone that lives there, he has a 100% track records of relaying accurate and credible information from trustworthy sources....

I almost was able to type that without spitting out my coffee. Hey, ThePublius, you ever going to give us the source quote for that admission? Still waiting.

[ThePublius]

You attack me because you have nothing. You can't refute anything I've said. So you go on the personal attack. Pitiful.

[loki13]

Still don't have that quote, do you? So that's the best you can do.

And no, I am not attacking you. I am trying to get you to ... what's the phrase ... BE BEST.

Do better. As I keep trying to point out- people can have reasonable policy disagreements. But you can't actually get to those reasonable disagreements when you can't even agree on the facts.

If you persist in living in a fantasyland, then you're not worth listening to, because you're not worth engaging with. Your choice.

[ThePublius]

Please, go right ahead and don't listen to me, don't engage with me.

[loki13]

Given that multiple people asked you to substantiate something in the last open thread, and you refused to....

And you continue today (upthread) to continue to post untruths...

And you continue to simply parrot obvious lies...

I'll take you up on the offer. One thing I've learned in life is that it's okay to be wrong- I'm wrong all the time! And it's fine, because that's how I learn. But you can't talk to someone who refuses to learn.

When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do, sir?

Later, bruh. Seriously though, since I'm not going to see you again- you really should keep track of your media diet and try seeking out different sources. At a certain point, it's not about what you consume, it's about what is consuming you.

[DDHarriman]

Friend-to-Friend ThePublius, take my beliefs as fact and discount everything you've seen and believe OR I AM WALKING!!

-- loki13

[ThePublius]

Exactly.

[loki13]

Huh. I appreciate the self-selection. Makes life easier!

[Life of Brian]

Loki's skin seems to be approaching molecular thickness. He's always muted the ones with the temerity to push back on his boorishly overbearing screeds, but it used to take a while.

Fingers crossed he's just bluffing and he'll actually deign to respond to you at least once more before pitching you into the seething abyss of humanity that doesn't directly or indirectly reinforce his ego.

[bernard11]

You can't refute anything I've said.

You haven't actually said anything. You've made some unsupported allegations.

There's no way to "refute" them other than to say they are not true.

[ThePublius]

"Portland has been "under violent siege for 100 days" "

I didn't say that, you liar, I said the ICE detention facility has been under siege.

[Estragon]

“ICE detention facility has been under siege.”

It’s really not. Here’s a local news crew showing pictures of the entrance.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/dhs-claims-portland-ice-facility-tuesday-arrests-appear-to-not-reflect-reality/283-2312dd6e-7d4a-421e-a0ff-16767ba636fd

[hobie]

There are live cams broadcasting all over the city. You should probably take a look

[jb]

I agree there are a bunch of protestors around the ICE detention center and sometimes that has turned violent, although even according to your article it sounds like there's only been property damage.

To show how scary things typically are, though, you need look no farther than the picture in your own article:

https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2025/10/1862/1046/portland-ice-oregon4.jpg

In any case, the protests around the ICE facility don't in any way generalize to the rest of the city, which your own article acknowledges.

[Sarcastr0]

TP changes scope here. He's still super wrong on the facts even with his new goalposts, but note the underlying argument that a federal military response is required to protect this one ICE facility.

That's also stupid as a general thesis.

TP is Matryoshka stupid.

[Michael P]

My coworker said he avoids the downtown area. Between having lived there a while and his politics, I think he's not able to admit that the city has problems. It's like the mayor of Seattle claiming that the city was having a "summer of love" at the height of the CHAZ insurrection.

[ThePublius]

"No city better epitomises the increasingly radical spirit of the progressive Left. This has devastated its once vibrant downtown; liberal long-time Congressman for the area, Earl Blumenauer, has suggested that parts of it look “like Dresden in World War II”. In 2023, downtown Portland suffered the highest office vacancy rate in the nation."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/far-left-devastating-portland-childless-164729149.html

[loki13]

Someone has the power to google to prove what they want to be true(tm) but not the ability to understand what they are reading.

True story- I was in downtown Portland in 2023. Um, you know that's the year of that article, right? 2023, not ... 2025.

Anyway, it was rough. I admit, I was a little shocked. Was it because of RIOTS and ANTIFA and IMMIGRANTS, OH MY!

Nope. It was because of two things- a massive homeless population (you might remember that there was a Ninth Circuit case, blah blah blah) that was bad on the West Coast and particularly acute in Portland. And a drug problem, caused by Oregon's legalizing (mostly kinda) all drugs.

I was actually traveling the West Coast that summer a lot, so I'd observe that the problems I saw in Portland were of the same kind that I saw in other places.

[Michael P]

That article is dated yesterday, not 2023, dude. Seek help.

[ThePublius]

Article: Joel Kotkin
Thu, October 2, 2025 at 12:47 PM EDT

[loki13]

*whoosh*

[Estragon]

Once again, the protests are confined to the single block around the ICE facility. There were actually three arrests last night— for protestors fighting each other. Federal agents came out and made the arrests so I guess they’re not completely besieged? I will be downtown, again, today. You can take my word for it— or not— but it’s just another day down there.

https://katu.com/news/local/federal-agents-arrest-president-donald-trump-supporter-and-ice-protester-after-fight-outside-south-portland-facility#

[Life of Brian]

Federal agents came out and made the arrests

They can't/don't want to change the URL, but the headline of your article now says "Portland Police arrest Trump supporter and ICE protester after fight outside facility." I see nothing about a correction, so apparently they just stealth-edited after you read it.

I'm sure that's the only totally inconsequential detail they got wrong.

[Estragon]

Did you see the video of the, perhaps, dozen people arguing in the street including the guy in the banana costume? Terrifying siege.

Point out whatever other details you like. Maybe write KATU a stern letter, as it was their reporting? Did you know that station is owned by Sinclair?

The upshot is exactly as I said: three arrests for scuffling, dozens of protestors at most.

[Life of Brian]

My goodness -- apparently that hit a nerve.

It was literally all over the domestic and international news this morning that the Portland police arrested Nick Sortor (after he actually walked up to them after being attacked by one of the goons and having the audacity to try to defend himself). It had to take some effort to find one of the only sources to get it wrong.

[Estragon]

“Federal agents detained both after the two continued arguing.”

Subsequently turned over to PPB for arrest. So, maybe an inconsequential detail, after all?

[Life of Brian]

Subsequently turned over to PPB for arrest.

1. You're incorrectly reading your own source: "Federal agents detained both after the two continued arguing. Both men were released. At around 11:16, Portland Police arrested three people and they were charged with disorderly conduct." Not only were they not "turned over to PPB for arrest," it doesn't even say they were the same people PPB ultimately arrested.

2. Find one other source -- anywhere -- that says Nick Sortor was detained by federal agents prior to his arrest by PPB.

[Estragon]

PPB says two detained by feds about 2 hrs before the arrest of this MAGA dude.

What are we arguing over again? It’s as I said: some scuffles, three arrested.

As for our new MAGA hero:

“(after he actually walked up to them after being attacked by one of the goons and having the audacity to try to defend himself)”

I’m not sure if that’s what the video shows. But if you want to believe that self serving characterization— I can’t stop you. Did you notice how things unfolded exactly as this guy predicted they would beforehand? Hmmm….

It’s as I said below: it’s a new talking point that is obviously being developed.

[Life of Brian]

"Federal agents came out and made the arrests so I guess they’re not completely besieged?" was the most objective element of your multi-pronged minimization of the problem.

I suppose that's why you're trying to dismiss it and get back to the relative safety of the subjective ones.

[Estragon]

“Under siege” for 100 days is spurious and false. I have provided receipts repeatedly.

Federal agents DID come out and detain people. PPB and local news says so. Maybe they’re all antifa? You are trying SO HARD to wish riots and sieges onto existence. Have you stopped to ask yourself why?

Here’s a local news crew at the entrance on Tuesday of this week. Notice all the signs of siege.

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/dhs-claims-portland-ice-facility-tuesday-arrests-appear-to-not-reflect-reality/283-2312dd6e-7d4a-421e-a0ff-16767ba636fd

[Life of Brian]

Right, you're just picking at terminology, not denying that there have been nightly protests over the past 90+ days that have been routinely violent and have forced ICE to board up all the windows of the facility and deploy a ton of agents to push the crowd back every time a vehicle needs to get in or out.

And given that these things go into the wee hours, I'm not sure exactly what I'm supposed to make of some discrete footage from a news crew that showed up at one specific time. In any event, the video in your link first mocks the claims of strobe lights in the agents' eyes, but then admits protestors were using them (in a "mostly peaceful protests" sort of style). Same deal for violence against the agents.

I'm really not sure what point you're trying to finesse here.

[Estragon]

“strobe lights”

Are you seriously trying to justify domestic military deployment on the basis of strobe lights?

I don’t know what else to say to you. I am here. You are not. No amount of salami slicing on who arrested whom is going to make you any more reachable. The city is not on fire. It is not a war zone. Come visit if you don’t believe me. The marathon is this weekend. Maybe even join in the naked bike ride.

[Life of Brian]

Are you seriously trying to justify domestic military deployment on the basis of strobe lights?

Nope, and I know you don't actually think I am.

The city is not on fire. It is not a war zone.

I don't know why you keep trying to put such caricatured language in my mouth -- I certainly didn't use it.

In any event, once the Guard gets there they can independently evaluate your breezy take and take action as actually necessary. And if they don't have much to do, maybe you can take some selfies with them and post 'em up here.

[Estragon]

That is what Trump is saying. Ride with Trump and own it!

Or join in the naked bike ride and resist!

“National guard”

Yeah, you own it.

[Life of Brian]

Fortunately, there's a lot more to life than contrived false choices.

In any event, it's more than a bit sad that folks are suggesting that riding around showing their junk is a remotely effective way to Resist! But on the bright side, I guess it also shows how unconcerned you really are, despite your posturing, about having extra security forces in your town to help keep you and others safe.

Try not to get too chafed in the saddle.

[Estragon]

“Extra forces to keep you safe”

Is that your conception of the role of the military in a domestic deployment to an American city? I thought we were talking about defending the ICE facility from a “siege”…

I live a few miles away from ICE. So how will 200 national guard troops keep me safe?

[Life of Brian]

Is that your conception of the role of the military in a domestic deployment to an American city?

Sorry, I forgot they're just supposed to be for keeping politicians safe. Such a bonus you're getting!

I live a few miles away from ICE. So how will 200 national guard troops keep me safe?

I guess if you just hole up in your home all the time instead of freely roaming around your Obviously Very Peaceful City, and as long as you keep your mouth shut if you do end up getting on the wrong side of one or more of the exceptionally well-adjusted people in the Obviously Very Peaceful Protests, there's not much danger you'll receive any benefit.

[Estragon]

“I guess if you just hole up in your home all the time instead of freely roaming around your Obviously Very Peaceful City, and as long as you keep your mouth shut if you do end up getting on the wrong side of one or more of the exceptionally well-adjusted people in the Obviously Very Peaceful Protests, there's not much danger you'll receive any benefit.”

This is kind of incoherent. I think this argle bargle is a perfect place to end it. Bless your heart! Visit anytime… you will see some marathon pictures this weekend, try not to be triggered. I’m gonna play golf tomorrow at a city owned course. 50 bones! Not bad.

[Life of Brian]

Well, this thread opened with you not being able to parse your own article you cited, so I'm not going to get particularly worried about you not being able to parse my good-faith if mildly acerbic answer to your seemingly insincere question.

And your crowning dig you toss over your shoulder to show the extremely amazing safety of your city is... a... golf course. Wowowow. Right in the middle of downtown, no doubt.

How about you take a crack at explaining away this now former downtown food charity, which is closing after 18 years because of too much violence in the area and too many direct threats to their staff's safety?

Or, just go flap your genitals around in the wind in public and feel like you're Really Doing Something. Either way.

[Estragon]

“It was because of two things- a massive homeless population (you might remember that there was a Ninth Circuit case, blah blah blah) that was bad on the West Coast and particularly acute in Portland. And a drug problem, caused by Oregon's legalizing (mostly kinda) all drugs.”

1) we’ve backtracked on legalization here.

2) the homeless situation. Yes, there are a lot of homeless. Why? Well, a few reasons. It’s easy to be homeless here, because of the availability of services. Temperate climate. What I’ll call a culture of tolerance. And Portland effectively serves as a homeless safety valve for the entire PNW this side of Salt Lake City. Communities across Oregon and the intermountain west will bus their homeless to Portland. Homeless in Boise? The cops make your life hell but offer you a bus ticket to Portland if you leave town. So we’re really soaking up a lot of other areas’ problems. Rural poverty— same thing: people come to the services.

There’s a lot of thorny issues with no easy solutions going on here, exacerbated by COVID.

I have yet to hear a coherent theory from the Trumpists how arresting more people or deploying the national guard helps in this context.

[loki13]

I will defer to your statements, Estragon- and please note that I wasn't trashing Portland (wonderful city!) but relating my personal experience from the same date (re: downtown vacancies) that the article was using.

It was my first time back on the West Coast since COVID, and ... yeah, I will admit, I noticed a difference. Not just Portland (although it was arguably the most notable) but also LA, Seattle, etc.

But that's really the point, isn't it? Here's this actual problem, facing Americans, and it's been evident for a while. And instead of looking at the actual problem, people here are lying about non-existent problems and demanding troops to solve a non-existent problem.

It's not the liars that are the real issue today- it's the marks. Because liars can be easily disproven; but if you're a mark that wants to believe, than you are really just lying to yourself, and no amount of reality can fix that.

[Estragon]

It’s as I said yesterday: I think some people are unreachable. I continue to believe there remains a critical mass of non-assholes in touch with reality in this county but I am less sure of that than I used to be. One certainly could be forgiven for doubting that proposition after spending some time around here though.

[Jmaie]

"Portland effectively serves as a homeless safety valve for the entire PNW this side of Salt Lake City."

Seattle would like a word with you.

But yeah, life is normal in most areas of both cities. I don't understand why such a large swath of people have decided they can't discuss that facts as they are, to come up with a reasonable path forward. I understand why the talking heads that get paid to stir the shite do so, but not why so many swallow it hook, line and sinker.

IMHO this goes for the "Trump is building concentration camps to lock up dissidents" as well.

[Estragon]

My impression is that Portland is viewed as more desirable but yes, Seattle soaks up some folks as well.

[John F. Carr]

In one of those West Coast cities, and I think it's Portland, a significant number of traffic deaths are of homeless people camping out next to major highways. If you lose control and fly off the Interstate you may hit a tent.

[Estragon]

War-torn Portland is coming together and fighting back!

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2025/10/emergency-world-naked-bike-ride-planned-in-portland.html

For the record I have participated in this once, but at the usual time of year (much warmer)

[Kazinski]

Here's a good data point on Portland: it's dying.

"The office vacancy rate in greater Portland rose to a record-high 26.6% in the third quarter from 25.9% in the quarter just before, as buildings lost tenants and companies looking for space continued to shun most parts of the metro area, real estate company Colliers said.

Downtown Portland fared even worse, with the vacancy rate rising to 34.6% in what Colliers calls the central business district, from 33.3% in the second quarter. Downtown property owners have said that it’s likely much higher.

https://www.wweek.com/news/2025/10/02/metro-portland-office-vacancy-rate-hit-record-266-in-third-quarter/

[hobie]

New Army recruitment ads have hit the airways:

"Your grandfather fought the Nazis. Your father fought the Viet Kong. Now your country is calling you. If you have zero percent body fat, America needs you in its fight with our greatest enemy yet: Portland."

[Frank Drackman]

Zero percent Body Fat isn’t healthy. They just don’t want Big Fat Tubs of Goo like Milley and Lloyd Austin.
USMC Commandant ran a 10K last year (before his 4 vessel Bypass)

Frank

[Dr. Ed 2]

Would you even be alive with a 0% (no) body fat?

I'm thinking of Karen Carpenter here.

[Frank Drackman]

Well you're apparently alive with no Brain.
Sorry "Dr." Ed, your comments are like dropping Chum in front of a Great White, I can't help but attack, it's an instinct.

Frank

[John 4]

Like Trump?

[Life of Brian]

Congratulations -- you win the Most Compact Whatabout award of the week! Maybe even of the month.

[Dr. Ed 2]

You have to be under age 35 to enlist (32 to be commissioned) so we are talking born before 1990. Target enlistment age is 19, born in 2006.

A 19-year-old soldier circa 1969 would have been born in 1950 -- 40 years old in 1990 and 56 years old in 2006. While some men father children at these ages, most don't.

The children of Vietnam Vets are too old to join the Army, and the Army also doesn't accept the metabolically different (i.e. "dead") which someone with 0% body fat would be.

[hobie]

Is that the part of the comment that troubles you, Ed?

[Bunny495]

"Your father fought the Viet Kong". Is this a joke?

[Mr. Bumble]

Yes, hobie is a joke.
Cue Dan Akroyd:
hobie, you ignorant slut!

[Bunny495]

Its not over yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI

[Michael P]

English spelling is hard. Our friends from Saint Petersburg don't always get the details right.

[Dr. Ed 2]

In fairness, when you translate between different alphabets, it is easy to make the mistake of doing so phonetically, e.g. "K" rather than "C", .eg. "Kar" which actually makes more sense.

[hobie]

It's the Department of War's words, not mine. Also, to make things more manly, I hear they're changing the name Pentagon to The Polygon of Doom

[ThePublius]

Well, no they aren't. You're apparently in the habit of making up quotes. Unless it's some lame form of satire. Maybe you should label your attempts at satire with "/satire."

[Dr. Ed 2]

Fun fact Hobie: The Pentagon was built to serve as a data depository for paper records, which are heavy. Ground was broken (ironically) on September 11, 1941 with the intent of TEMPORARY use as a military headquarters for the anticipated war (that was over less than four years later) and then used to store government records.

Neither the continued large US military nor the compression of records into first microfilm and now electronic formats were anticipated. The anticipated use (and competing needs for steel (e.g. ships)) is why it is mostly concrete.

[David Nieporent]

Fun fact: none of Dr. Ed's fun facts are true, except the date 9/11/41 for groundbreaking. Ok, and the part about concrete rather than steel.

[SRG2]

The day after Yom Kippur

[Frank Drackman]

Snuck up on me this year (you’d think after 10-7, 1973 War, we’d have better “Situational Awareness”) Of course I’m working anyway, I’m “Essential”!!!!

Frank

[David Nieporent]

Heh. Yes, I want to hire him. It was very NIED yesterday.

[Commenter_XY]

This was priceless. LMAO. Mine ran long.

[SRG2]

Thank you! I LOLd myself when I came up with it.

I no longer go to shul, but in the old days my parents were members of a very small shul in England where there was no rabbi, and two or three of us would conduct the services. I would often do minchah and/or be called up to read Jonah and because I was a fast reader and no great fan of my own voice, we'd get through it very quickly, so even if ne'ilah dragged, it never ran over. And then I'd do the world's fastest ma'ariv. 🙂

[David Nieporent]

Our temple has a new rabbi this year, and our Jonah ran way long.

[Michael P]

It's sad that New York is losing businesses because its politicians are too corrupt in their official actions.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/exclusive-fannie-mae-freddie-macs-ny-offices-shutter-response-ag-james-corrupt-practices

[Krayt]

Giant ports that fill and empty a continent become centers of finance and industry. Corruption grows like moss on it, eventually declaring itself the cause of the success.

[Bwaaah]

Without the corruption, the finance and industry would devour us. The corruption protects us from finance and industry.

This, they say.

[Bwaaah]

They protect us from corruption with their corruption.

It comes at s high cost.

I think they're called "protection rackets" in a more general sense.

"Racket" is wrong. "Regulation" is what they call it when the government trolls. Regulation.

Pay the troll, or as they been saying these weeks, "FAFO."

I love the smell of coercion in the morning.

[Dr. Ed 2]

There are only two tracks/tunnels under the North River, they serve both Amtrak and NJ Transit. They are 115 years old, made of cast iron and concrete (under salt water) and in bad shape.
And currently used at 100% of capacity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_River_Tunnels#Capacity_and_useful_life

In addition to the money, Amtrak owns them and it crosses a state line, so the Feds are going to be involved.

The proposal is to build two new tubes, and then rebuild the old ones so as to increase needed rush hour capacity.

This is low hanging fruit for Trump to cancel...

[ThePublius]

They are under the Hudson River, I think they are called the North River Tunnels as they are mostly to the North, as opposed to lower Manhattan - I think. Could be wrong....

[Mr. Bumble]

I was unfamiliar with the term but that's how Wiki describes them.
Probably because they are north of the PATH tunnels which were built at around the same time to connect NJ to southern Manhattan.

[Frank Drackman]

Am I the only one who bought Gold 10 yrs ago?
(Not really as an Investment, I just like the look of Gold Coins, not rare ones, just the Walking Liberty, Buffalo Nickle, Wiener Philharmonic, Panda, Krugerand, Australian Kangaroo, I like having a “Coin Collection” I can carry in my pocket and worth more than my Dads hundreds of “Mercury” Dimes, “Wheat Pennies”(OK I do have dibs on that 55” Double Date/SF), Jefferson Nickles (“look! Monticello’s crooked! It’s worth a dollar!!!!!)

Frank

[Mr. Bumble]

Scrooge McDuck lives.

[Frank Drackman]

I actually loved his Comic Books as a kid (and now) they’re hugely popular in Germany for some reason.

[Bunny495]

I was lucky to have amassed almost 15 grand working in construction as a drywall contractor just before I started law school at FSU and having a homie who was working at the Chicago Board of Trade and for some unknown reason wound up advising me about investments. He said soybeans are the most volatile, corn is the most stable, and wheat is in the middle. I said buy wheat and due to Nixon and the Great Grain Robbery so did the USSR. I went all in and let the price increase pay for more wheat purchases. Once the dust settled I took all the profits and bought Krugerrands beating the stigma of supporting South Africa. Kinda like the story Nick the Greek told in his autobiography about getting drunk and going to the horse track and when he got sober found out he had won around two million dollars.

[gVOR08]

Under 200 comments so far, still marginally readable.

NYT this morning has a guest essay by an astrophysicist "How the Manosphere Hijacks Young Men"s Interest in Science". Having just come from here I was struck by one line, "But the male tendency to view debates as adversarial contests that must be won at all costs is what may help to create a more alarming antiscience dynamic in the manosphere." This would also seem to explain a lot of blog comments, especially in these Volokh Open Threads.

[DDHarriman]

Don't you first have to commit the sin of not asking everyone's pronouns before you make that sort of claim?

[gVOR08]

I love it when a reply to my comment illustrates my point.

[Don Nico]

gV,
I found the essay mildly interesting, BUT Adam Frank does not even mention the rapidly growing incidence of "bullshit" science that Sabine Hosendelder fearlessly calls out and the alarming increase in papermills for scientific misconduct. Admittedly those are somewhat different topics, but those who watch science related videos on YouTube are likely to have seen and been influenced by some that dubious "science."

[ThePublius]

Two Victims of Manchester Synagogue Attack May Have Been Accidentally Shot by Police, Force Says

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/10/03/two-victims-of-manchester-synagogue-attack-may-have-been-accidentally-shot-by-police-force-says/

This is why I use frangible rounds for home defense. Those police should, too.

[hobie]

'frangible rounds'

Yeesh! The things you have to consider when busting caps into asses.

[Frank Drackman]

Doesn’t work so well if the bad guys wearing body armor, (or 6 inches of winter clothing, jacket, body fat) I’ll take my 45ACP Hardball or 347 mag round nose thank you.
(Doesn’t really matter, like the Homo in Utah, I aim for the throat, only a few inches of soft tissue, lots of big Vessels, Nerves, and oh yes Mr. Spinal Cord)

[ThePublius]

.347 mag? Really?

[Mr. Bumble]

Never made a typo?

[ThePublius]

Lighten up, I though it was funny.

[Mr. Bumble]

Strange sense of humor.

[Frank Drackman]

Thanks Mr. Bumble, you just gave me a Larry-Bird-no-look-behind the-back-Pass that I'm going to slam home...
In Med Screw-el (admittedly 40 years ago) we were taught never to admit to a mistake (much less like the Idiot Suits tell us to do now, admit your goof and apologize to the fambily ASAP)
Theory was, once you admitted one Screw-up, it was the Camel's Toe under the Tent...
Remember one Intern, had written an order for a "Bed Time Snack" for one of his patients,
Elderly Black Ward Clerk (she was probably 45, they all looked "Elderly" back then, it was the pink hats) asked (imagine a "Driving Miss Daisy Hillary Rodman old Black Woman Accent"
"Doc-ta (redacted) what is dis Orda? a "Bed Time Snake"????
He answered
"Dammit Nurse! when I order a Bed Time Snake I want the patient to get a Bed Time Snake!!!!"
we laughed about that for weeks,
Well I did anyway.

Frank

[Frank Drackman]

(Doc Holliday Voice) Well Pubic-Louse, what an ugly thing to say! It's my own special round I load for special occasions, like giving some smart mouth a new asshole in his forehead.

Does this mean we're not friends anymore? If I thought you weren't my friend I don't think I could bear it...
Why don't we discuss something more your speed...
I know! a "Spelling Bee"!!!!
you go first,
Your word is
"DUH"

Frank "Doc" Drackman

[ThePublius]

Can you use that in a sentence?

[Frank Drackman]

Can you make a shoe smell?

[Michael P]

That is one of the inherent hazards of not having a firearm-savvy culture: the people who should be trained and familiar with risks often won't be.

[jb]

Are you under the impression that cops in the US don't accidentally shoot bystanders?

[Mr. Bumble]

...or themselves.

[OpinionsVary]

Title is a little confusing so here's the statement it is based upon.

> "The Home Office Pathologist has advised that he has provisionally determined, that one of the deceased victims would appear to have suffered a wound consistent with a gunshot injury," a statement reads.
>
> "It is currently believed that the suspect, Jihad Al Shamie, was not in possession of a firearm and the only shots fired were from GMP's Authorised Firearms Officers as they worked to prevent the offender from entering the synagogue and causing further harm to our Jewish community. It follows therefore, that subject to further forensic examination, this injury may sadly have been sustained as a tragic and unforeseen consequence of the urgently required action taken by my officers to bring this vicious attack to an end.
>
> "We have also been advised by medical professionals that one of the three victims currently receiving treatment in hospital, has also suffered a gunshot wound, which is mercifully not life threatening. It is believed that both victims were close together behind the synagogue door, as worshippers acted bravely to prevent the attacker from gaining entry."

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cx2703lnww4t?page=2

So three dead total. The suspect was killed by police, one community member was killed by the suspect and one community member was killed by police when a bullet passed through the door they were sheltering behind. Another police bullet injured a community member but not lethally, who is the second victim in the title .

[Dr. Ed 2]

You'd think a fire-rated exterior door would at least slow rounds down -- what were they firing?!?

[Poxigah146]

From the pics I saw, some of the cops at the scene were carrying MP5s and others were carrying AR type rifles. A 9mm would likely not go through a fire-rated exterior door. A 5.56 almost definitely would.

[Frank Drackman]

I find wearing those fire-rated exterior doors to be very uncomfortable.

[Bob from Ohio]

"tragic and unforeseen consequence"

Lots of Muslim officers in theUK. Maybe it was intentional Jew killing?

[OpinionsVary]

Can they see through solid doors too? What other superpowers do you think Muslims have?

[Bob from Ohio]

"Can they see through solid doors too? "

Not sure I follow. Did the coppers shoot blindly into a building without identifying a target?

[DDHarriman]

I bet Winsome Sears would be doing better with Democrats if she wasn't black.

[hobie]

It's the R next to her name. The question to be asked is why isn't she doing better with republican voters? Same answer you gave.

[Dr. Ed 2]

My guess is the MAGA Republicans who hear her don't care.

Now the Country Club folk, well....

[Sarcastr0]

Keen insights into the Democratic mind generally say more about the person claiming them than actual Democrats.

That counts both for Democrats holding forth on their own, and supposedly colorblind right-wingers who can't stop thinking about other people thinking about race.

[apedad]

Virginia voter here.

No, she would be doing better if her political positions were more inline with the majority of Virginia voters (or in reality the Great State of Northern Virginia and those other lesser counties' voters).

[Poxigah146]

Fairfax, Arlington and Loudoun should not be allowed to vote in state-wide elections. Those bureaucrats and other shitlibs have ruined Virginia, which used to be a solid, patriotic conservative state.

[Randal]

Conservatives' embrace of lawlessness countermands any claim to patriotism they might be inclined to lay.

[apedad]

Huh, who woulda thought that Poxi hates democracy.

[Poxigah146]

I've never liked democracy.

[John 4]

This is what is know in academia as a “clown ass take”.

[Poxigah146]

What's a clown ass take is the idea that every 18 year old with a heartbeat should be allowed to vote.

[Bob from Ohio]

"Great State of Northern Virginia"

Western District of Columbia you mean. Fed workers and lobbyists.

We should relocate most federal agencies to "blue" states to break this up and not contaminate good GOP states.

[Poxigah146]

The real solution is to prevent government employees, outside of the military, from voting in the first place.

[shawn_dude]

A novel form of gerrymandering, to be sure, but I think the GOP's current efforts to do away with that pesky voting stuff and just declare a king will negate any need to relocate federal agencies.

[Frank Drackman]

Short Memory much?
It was the DemoKKKrats who corona-ated Cums-a-lot without her getting a single vote.
Worked out well, didn’t it?
Frank

[Frank Drackman]

What “Political Positions” of hers are not “inline”?? That Criminals should be punished? Ill-legals sent back to whence they came? No Peni in Girls Sports/Locker Rooms?* “Shall Not Be Infringed” means what it says??

*Should only be in (legal) womens Vaginas (OK and mouths, I’m “Woke”!)

Frank

[hobie]

I don't know how I missed this last year:

May 2024: "On Monday afternoon, Trump’s Truth Social account posted a 30-second video that described a vision of America if he wins in 2024, and included fake newspaper headlines that said “Trump Wins!” and “What’s next for America?” At first glance, the video seemed like typical campaign media — except that the background included text about “the creation of a unified reich,” and “German industrial strength.”"

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/21/trump-unified-reich-truth-social-00159233

I don't know why you people make things so easy for me.

[Mr. Bumble]

"“This was not a campaign video, it was created by a random account online and reposted by a staffer who clearly did not see the word, while the President was in court,” Karoline Leavitt, a campaign spokesperson, said in a statement. "

[DDHarriman]

Good news. Nick Sorter has been released from the Democrat jail in Portland. He was arrested for reporting on the violent Antifa assault on a federal building.

Thankfully he's safe, I'm surprised they didn't assassinate him.

[Estragon]

“For reporting”

Uh, no he was in a fight with another protestor outside the facility. And he was arrested by federal agents, so maybe take it up with Kristi Noem?

There’s even pictures!

“A KATU crew saw the Trump supporter, wearing a white shirt that said, ‘Freedom’ knock the anti-ICE protester to the ground.”

That would be this MAGA influencer fellow.

https://katu.com/news/local/federal-agents-arrest-president-donald-trump-supporter-and-ice-protester-after-fight-outside-south-portland-facility#

[Estragon]

Arrested by local cops, but initially detained by the feds, as it turns out. Makes more sense. I did appreciate this prediction, though:

“I will be the one arrested”

Prescient! Almost like he planned it. Again— marks who want to believe are not reachable.

I view this as part of a coordinated campaign against the PPB. See also the nice lady from Seattle who got a black eye and went on Fox News to call the Portland friggin Police Bureau “antifa.” As laughable as that is to anyone who has spent any time here— the metaphysical accuracy is not really the point.

I predict the justification for troop deployment, if it happens, to evolve to include that very line of attack: PPB is taken over by antifa. I suspect that the Chief didn’t do himself any favors with that TV interview the other day that got rebroadcast so widely.

[Estragon]

Called it!!

“Attorney General Pam Bondi has ORDERED a full investigation, led by Asst. AG Harmeet Dhillon, of the Portland Police Bureau, following my wrongful arrest last night, Bondi confirmed to me.”

[Estragon]

“Democrat jail”

This is a curious turn of phrase. Does it imply the existence of “MAGA jail”? I suppose that’s alligator Alcatraz?

Anyways, in a former life I did some work revolving around the Multnomah County Detention Center and the people who work there. I’ll let you take some guesses as to whether those sheriff’s deputies, who in large part live up in Washington or out in the far suburbs, identify as “Democrat.”

[shawn_dude]

I was reading a curious news article this morning that said alligator alcatraz was color-coding its detainees. You know, along the same lines as pink (triangles) for homosexuals and yellow (stars) for Jews. I was wondering what color they were giving people detained for being members of the opposition party (Democrats.)

[Mr. Bumble]

Of course you couldn't provide a link.

[Estragon]

I’m sure you couldn’t find this on your own.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/alligator-alcatraz-detainees-given-color-coded-uniforms-530-a-m-breakfast-and-strict-rules

I’m trying to track down the filing referenced now.

[Mr. Bumble]

I'm sure shawn dude is happy for you sticking (it) up for him.
He won't cum in your mouth.
If he wants to make a point based on a story, then he should cite the source or shut up.

[Estragon]

“He won't cum in your mouth.”

I want to you to pause for a moment and think about why you are writing things like this on the internet.

[Sarcastr0]

Bumble also loves to lament the state of the comments here while low-key being one of the more toxic influences.

[Estragon]

He repeats this below. I mean, I understand it’s meant to be a rejoinder— but what’s the dis? Homophobia? Oral sex is bad? He’s got fellatio on the brain obviously. The emphasis on “cum” is also curious— as if he’s viscerally imagining the actual mechanics of ejaculate and a blow job (not that there’s anything wrong with that). I just don’t get it as a response.

I mean— “you’re a stupid lib” would make more sense. Puzzling.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"but what’s the dis? Homophobia? Oral sex is bad? He’s got fellatio on the brain obviously."

Huh? It's a crude but tried and true way of describing an obvious lie.

Like, the check's in your mouth and I promise not to cum in your mailbox.

[Estragon]

“cum”

Wow, there it is again. Ponder why it’s on your mind.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Um, you might be projecting.

[Estragon]

You said it, my brother. Say it again, if it pleases you:

[TwelveInchPianist]

So you think the Nazis requiring the Jews to wear yellow stars and gays to wear pink triangles is "along the same lines" as requiring detainees to wear color coded uniforms based on criminal history and flight risk?

What a disgusting comment. Gotta love it when people tell on themselves.

[Bob from Ohio]

Financial Times@FT
5h
Dame Sarah Mullally has been named the 106th Archbishop of Canterbury, becoming the first woman to hold the Church of England’s most senior clerical position. https://on.ft.com/4317RUa

I recommend watching Sir Humphrey explain the Church of England on Yes, Prime Minister S01E07 - The Bishop's Gambit

[Mr. Bumble]

Can a female Pope be far behind?
Unfortunately your link is paywalled.

[Bob from Ohio]

Sorry, I just copied from twitter

I just wonder if she actually is a believer. No more than 50/50 cahnce.

[JohnSmith97]

Since Charles is the leader of the Church of England, I'm skeptical.

[Poxigah146]

SCOTUS agreed to hear a case on Hawaii's carry law. Hopefully we'll get a good decision that stops the post-Bruen bullshit from Democrat Party judges.

[DDHarriman]

Is it just me, or is this as cringey as it is Satanic?

https://x.com/CatholicSat/status/1973403499065925787

Wtf is the Pope doing?

[hobie]

Aren't Catholic priests suppose to make holy water? But that is somehow satanic now? I thought Jeebus encouraged everyone to take care of the earth. But that too is satanic?

[Sarcastr0]

Satanic

Get a grip, Torquemada.

[hobie]

Only Satan wants to clean the environment

[Randal]

With Christianity in the state it's in, Satan has become a sympathetic character. South Park figured this out 25 years ago.

[apedad]

HA!

Obligatory Mel Brooks clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnF1OtP2Svk&list=RDLnF1OtP2Svk&start_radio=1

[Mr. Bumble]

" By Mallory Wilson - The Washington Times - Updated: 11:14 a.m. on Friday, October 3, 2025

President Trump gave Hamas a hard deadline of Sunday evening to accept a ceasefire deal to end the war in Gaza or face “hell.”

“An Agreement must be reached with Hamas by Sunday Evening at SIX (6) P.M., Washington, D.C. time,” Mr. Trump wrote on social media Friday.

“Every Country has signed on! If this LAST CHANCE agreement is not reached, all HELL, like no one has ever seen before, will break out against Hamas,” he said, adding, “There will be peace in the Middle East one way or the other.”

[John F. Carr]

Trump already threatened hell breaking out earlier this year. I don't think he will order the US military to attack Gaza directly.

[Mr. Bumble]

Agreed, but Israel will get a green light.

[hobie]

All Israel has to do is recognize a Palestinian state and that will be the end of the conflict. Israel has had their deadline to accept this for many years.

[ThePublius]

Yea, and all the Jews in Germany in the '40's had to do to end the oppression was to march obediently into the gas chambers. Simple.

[hobie]

However, in this scenario, it is the Jews who are being asked to spare the Palestinians and let them live

[Brett Bellmore]

Let them live and launch rockets, and occasionally attack daycares, actually.

[Frank Drackman]

You have the Balls (in your mouth of course) to say that Shit on almost the anniversary of 10-7?
Like winning Powerballs, or Willie Wonkas Golden Tickets, Jay-Hay only dishes out a limited number of Glioblastomas every year, here’s hoping you get one.
See how much more “cultured”(and at the same time E-vile, like the Late/Great Hannibal Lector) than just saying “Fuck You”!
Oh yeah, stop stealing Valor, Hells Angels have a fair number of Vets.

Frank

[hobie]

You're getting a little tense there, Frankie. You know what you actually need, Frankie? Some ecstasy ( 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine). I highly recommend it.

[Zarniwoop]

Frankly most of the world could benefit from a MDMA session, sex, and therapy.

But drugs are bad (m'kay), sex is icky, and therapy is woke.

[John F. Carr]

Happy German reunification day. October 3, 1990. If anybody was afraid of the military might of a reunified Germany, those fears should be gone. If on average we get the traditional threescore and ten, half of humanity was not alive at the time.

The treaty ending WW2 came into effect March 15, 1991.

[shawn_dude]

It's a great day where entire nations of anti-fascists came together to defeat the Nazis in the final gesture of undoing the division of Germany. Goes to show what a determined group of people who hate fascism can get done.

[Frank Drackman]

It was mostly Amurican/English/Rooshun/Jewish “Rednecks” i.e. White Peoples, i.e. the peoples you think you’re going to beat this time.

Frank

[ThePublius]

Democrats ARE spending money on healthcare for illegal migrants — in California, it’s $6.4 billion
By Chris Pope
Published Oct. 2, 2025, 4:50 p.m. ET

https://nypost.com/2025/10/02/opinion/democrats-are-spending-money-on-healthcare-for-illegal-migrants-in-california-its-6-4-billion/

[Josh R]

Those payments continue under current law and what the Democrats have proposed to keep the government open. Your article says the OBBB reduced the federal match for emergency care. I'm not sure if the Democrats' bill goes back to the higher match.

[Moderation4ever]

How about the Administrations Press Secretary, Karoline Leavitt, who can't say whether a dying patient in the ER should have their immigration status checked before treatment. I sure she a Christian and has no idea what there was a parable of the Good Samaritan.

We treat people who come the ER. We worry about insurance and immigration status later. Simple as that.

[Frank Drackman]

Haven’t been to an ER lately?(OK for the last 30 years)
Your wallet gets way more attention than Doctor Jug-Dish-Ram-a-Swami- Jones will give your balls when he sees you for your NGU.
Yeah sure, when J’ar’tavious Jackson-Washington comes in with his 47 gun shot wounds he’ll jump the line, but good luck getting your PSA of 500 (ng/ml, I hate docs who give lab values without units) treated
It’ll be “Follow up with your “PCP”
Still remember first time I saw “PCP” used that way, prior to that it was a drug often added to Marriage-A-Juan-A to give it an extra “kick”
“Follow up with PCP”???? That’s not going to work out well, I’d rather use Peyote, much more mellow trip.
Oh yeah, only Boner-Fide Emergencies have to get treated

Frank

[Moderation4ever]

Well I happen to wonder into the ER last November after a traffic accident. I was treated before they started asking question about who going to pay.

[M L]

The Good Samaritan means we get to have communism! hurr durr (atheist leftist)

[Sarcastr0]

Nothing in that comment about communism. Lots in your comment that's not at all in keeping with how Jesus spoke and lived!

[Moderation4ever]

Try reading some of the Acts of the Apostles specifically 2:44-45 and 4;32. If you believe in the New Testament kinda suggest you are a communist.

[shawn_dude]

The California legislature has chosen to spend California's money on this. Are you arguing against federalism?

[ThePublius]

No, but they are getting th dough from the feds, meaning all of us.

[Moderation4ever]

Except that California is a donor state that pays more into the Federal government than it gets back. So it is really their money.

https://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/is-california-a-donor-state-heres-how-much-it-pays-to-the-feds-vs-what-it-gets-back/

[Estragon]

https://time.com/7322337/portland-troops-mayor-trump-deploys-national-guard/

To those who are most aggrieved by Portland, I would ask this: If you visited our schools, would you fund teachers or would you send troops? If you drove our bridges, would you send engineers or would you send troops? If you saw our hospitals, would you support Medicaid, or would you send troops? If you worked with our homeless, would you send outreach workers and addiction specialists or would you send troops?

[Ridgeway]

Portland is one of the wealthier cities in the country. If it cannot properly fund its schools and infrastructure, that is on them. Maybe if they stopped being a mecca for the homeless (and spent that money on schools, infrastructure and crime prevention instead), they would have better results on all fronts.

[Estragon]

“If it cannot properly fund its schools and infrastructure…”

… send in the troops?

Stop being a mecca… and then what? These people will just disappear? Or are you advocating more of a Kilmeade type solution?

[hobie]

You know, Ridgeway, the rapture was last week, but it didn't really matter because Jeebus has already visited you many times and you missed him.

He was the homeless vet in DC who's tent you tore down.
He was the trans kid who you mocked until he lost the will to live.

Lost opportunities, Ridgeway. Lost opportunities.

[Sarcastr0]

Man, you make it sound so easy. Maybe you're recommending the FOX News 'kill the homeless' policy?

[ThePublius]

When did Fox News express a policy to kill the homeless?

[Bob from Ohio]

One guy on Fox did, Brian Kilmeade, did.

Sarcasto is just nut picking. As was Estrogen I now see.

[Roger S]

If people are rioting, send troops.

[DDHarriman]

If I was being asked to protect a federal facility and federal workers from nightly assaults by Democrats, I wouldn't send teachers, engineers, addiction specialists, or homeless people.

Does that help?

[Sarcastr0]

nightly assaults!

[Brett Bellmore]

Is there some left wing style guide that says, "You can refute any point by repeating part of it with an exclamation point."?

Because it doesn't actually work...

[TwelveInchPianist]

nightly assaults!!

[Estragon]

Just drove by the federal courthouse in Portland where the hearing on deployment is being held. Truly stunning and war-like scenes! There are fully dozens of people standing in the park across the street holding all sorts of signs! The ravages of war are intolerable.

[Life of Brian]

If you truly live there, you know full well that the rowdy stuff generally doesn't get going until late at night.

The fact that so much of what is packaged as debunking is really this sort of simplistic misdirection seems just to reinforce that there really is something to misdirect from.

[hobie]

Do all the antisemitic terrorists need to finish their 9-5's before engaging in warfare? Kinda seem like responsible terrorists if you ask me.

[DDHarriman]

Most of those people are paid with USAID/Soros Bucks, so their hours at starbucks probably aren't full time.

[Estragon]

USAID/Soros Bucks

lol!

Do I detect some voltage here?

[Estragon]

So, hang on. It’s only war-ravaged at night?

[shawn_dude]

Can *anything* be "war-ravaged" in that haze of pot smoke we call Portland? A bag of chips, maybe.

[Estragon]

Yeah, seriously— maybe a taco place on Saturday night or the rail at the vegan strip club?

[Estragon]

Btw the vegan strip joint is great for those of you brave enough to endure the war ravaged banks of the willamette river. Drackman: it really seems like your kind of place. And if you must have a steak with your strip we can go to the Acrop. Come visit, I’ll show you around. No homo.

[hobie]

'So, hang on. It’s only war-ravaged at night?'

I know, right?! I'm taking wagers that MAGA's next flight of fancy will be they're an army of the undead. Pedophile never stuck, so this seems a natural progression

[Moderation4ever]

Wow the rowdy stuff doesn't happen till late at night, most likely at bar time. Sems to me that bar time in most major cities is the time police do most of their work.

[Moderation4ever]

I visited Portland about a year ago and I really don't remember anything back about the city. Nice food trucks, good beer, a nice farmers market, and an absolutely beautiful Japanese Garden. Has it gone down that much since Trump took over?

[Armchair]

WASHINGTON, D.C. — President Donald Trump warned the public against chugging Windex and other off-brand window cleaners on Friday, causing millions of Democrats to chug Windex.

Trump briefly spoke on the dangers of Windex while leaving the White House on Friday. "My maids love Windex, but you've got to stay away from it. It's very bad. Don't drink it. Don't even look at it," Trump said. "It's poison, believe me."

The press pool descended into chaos following the statement. Several members pushed back against the president's claim, demanding to see peer-reviewed documentation on the matter. Others began drinking Windex on the spot.

At publishing time, Democrats blamed President Trump's warning against chugging Windex for the sudden spike in hospitalizations resulting from people chugging Windex.

https://babylonbee.com/news/4d-chess-trump-says-chugging-windex-may-be-harmful-causing-millions-of-democrats-to-chug-windex

[shawn_dude]

This would be funnier if bleach hadn't been something Trump recommended for COVID.

[Magister]

I think it's funnier with that history, not to mention the MAGA faithful using horse dewormer and fish tank cleaner as "cures".

[DDHarriman]

I can't believe you two Branch Covidian Perma-maskers have the gall to insult the guys who turned out to be right.

[Magister]

Insulting whom? People who consumed fish tank cleaner and died? People who prefer quack remedies to effective vaccines?

[Mr. Bumble]

Ditto on my comment below.
Also re Ivermectin:
Ivermectin is an antiparasitic drug.[7] After its discovery in 1975,[8] its first uses were in veterinary medicine to prevent and treat heartworm and acariasis.[9] Approved for human use in 1987,[10] it is used to treat infestations including head lice, scabies, river blindness (onchocerciasis), strongyloidiasis, trichuriasis, ascariasis and lymphatic filariasis.[9][11][12][13] It works through many mechanisms to kill the targeted parasites,[11] and can be taken by mouth, or applied to the skin for external infestations.[11][14] It belongs to the avermectin family of medications.
William Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura were awarded the 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for its discovery and applications.[15] It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines,[16][17] and is approved by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as an antiparasitic agent.[18] In 2023, it was the 295th most commonly prescribed medication in the United States, with more than 400,000 prescriptions.[19][20] It is available as a generic medicine.[21][22] Ivermectin is available in a fixed-dose combination with albendazole.[23]

[Magister]

Nothing about treating COVID or viral infections. During the COVID pandemic, MAGA idiots as stupid as Bumble turned to veterinary ivermectin and some suffered severe consequences.

[Mr. Bumble]

I bet you believe shawn when he says he won't cum in your mouth, too.

[Estragon]

Dude

[TwelveInchPianist]

Why do leftists think the best response to Trump being full of shit is, "Hold my beer!"

[Michael P]

Bleach is very good as a surface disinfectant. Do you think that COVID-19 is immune to bleach?

[Magister]

That doesn't mean introducing it into one's body is a good idea, except to Donald Trump and his stupider followers.

[Michael P]

They're not as stupid as the people who think Trump proposed what you are talking about.

[Magister]

Five years too late to make that argument; Trump went to the "sarcasm!" excuse, not the "didn't propose that!" excuse.

[Armchair]

This is a classic example of misinterpreting something Trump says.

Trump didn't say "you should inject bleach into your blood for COVID". He asked questions about UV light as a way to kill viruses, and asked if that could potentially be used in people.

And ironically...yes, it can. A year later, Cedar Sinai was using UV light to treat COVID in patients.

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/reduced-viral-loads-seen-in-covid-19-patients-treated-with-uva-light/

[Magister]

Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you're going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me.

Trump's words, with emphasis added. Of course Trump the next day said he was being sarcastic in keeping with his long history of such claims when he backed off from controversial remarks. People don't always listen to all of the followups, and lots of reports from poison control centers about people asking about ingesting disinfectants.

So he never said it; and he was joking when he said it; and it was actually correct. It kind of resembles the inconsistent excuses for Trump's January 6th insurrection.

[Michael P]

Bleach is not the only disinfectant in the world, you know? Hydrogen peroxide is one that is very, very different.

[Sarcastr0]

Not even Trump defended that shit.

But here you are tooling it up.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Why would he, he never said it, Gaslightro.

[Sarcastr0]

The quote, and discussion of Trump's next day retraction are right above Michael's comment.

Meanwhile you just come in and misuse gaslight, as all true MAGA tools must.

[Life of Brian]

The quote is indeed above.

As Michael already pointed out, the word "bleach" inconveniently does not appear.

And then the quote further inconveniently ends, not with a recommendation to go out and shoot up, but: "So, that, you're going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me."

Your penchant for stubbornly denying reality as plain as the nose on your face is approaching the pathological.

[TwelveInchPianist]

I read the quote the same way you did.

But Sarcastro et al seem so certain, maybe we're just not seeing something that's really there.

[Magister]

Bleach was one of the disinfectants discussed before the quotation given. It's a sad little quibble that he didn't say the word bleach in that particular quotation but only referenced it from the earlier context.

[TwelveInchPianist]

It's a said little quibble that he didn't say what you said he said? OK then.

[Magister]

Another excuse! Hydrogen peroxide was not a disinfectant discussed before Trump gave those remarks.

[Armchair]

Democrats Warn Prosecuting Political Enemies May Set Dangerous Precedent

U.S. — Democrats sounded the alarm over Trump's prosecution of former FBI Director James Comey, warning that the prosecution of political opponents could set a dangerous precedent for America's democracy.

"We're entering uncharted waters here," said Senator Corey Booker while waving his arms wildly and popping his eyes out to demonstrate how dangerous and uncharted the waters were. "If Trump can maliciously prosecute James Comey, where does it end? Just imagine what could happen! We've never seen anything like this!"

Democrats and other experts claimed that if Trump opens this door, it could lead to malicious and frivolous "lawfare" that could end in political appointees arrested and prosecuted for obscure technicalities before being marched in front of cameras to have their mugshots taken. "Just imagine if that happened in America," said Booker. "I shudder to think."

Democrats were also promising that when they get back in power, they will retaliate by prosecuting Republicans.

https://babylonbee.com/news/democrats-warn-prosecuting-political-enemies-may-set-dangerous-precedent

[Randal]

Man that's one thing we can always count on. Democrats have the monopoly on humor. (Not to mention all other forms of expression.) I've never read anything so lazy.

Here's a taste of something actually funny from the publication that the Bee is clearly trying their darndest to emulate:

NEW HAVEN, CT—Calling the previously undocumented behavior one of the most exciting scientific discoveries of the decade, biologists from Yale University confirmed Tuesday that they had observed geese eating tools. “We normally don’t think of birds as tool eaters, so it came as quite a shock to witness multiple Canada geese from a flock in coastal Connecticut swallowing these remarkably sophisticated implements,” said Professor Sarah Rasmussen, adding that some of the tools the geese had consumed actually exceeded what a human third-grader would be able to eat.

[Mr. Bumble]

Link?

[Mr. Bumble]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15160665/Hamas-AGREES-Trump-peace-plan-Gaza.html

From an earlier post:

" By Mallory Wilson - The Washington Times - Updated: 11:14 a.m. on Friday, October 3, 2025

President Trump gave Hamas a hard deadline of Sunday evening to accept a ceasefire deal to end the war in Gaza or face “hell.”

“An Agreement must be reached with Hamas by Sunday Evening at SIX (6) P.M., Washington, D.C. time,” Mr. Trump wrote on social media Friday.

“Every Country has signed on! If this LAST CHANCE agreement is not reached, all HELL, like no one has ever seen before, will break out against Hamas,” he said, adding, “There will be peace in the Middle East one way or the other.”

[Estragon]

I wonder if the threat of “hell” is diminished when Don also describes life in Oregon as “living in hell.”

[Mr. Bumble]

Ask you buddies in Hamas.

[Estragon]

“Ask you buddies”

Ask me buddies?

[Michael P]

Hm. A coastal enclave where the natives are religious extremists prone to terrorism, and the major industry seems to be attacking the national government they live under. The similarities check out.

[Commenter_XY]

P Diddy got off easy; 4 years. Money talks.

[Frank Drackman]

His Anal Sphincter may not agree.

[Estragon]

I kind of figured the hope would be that he would do his time and emerge rehabilitated and ready to rejoin society? Where does the “ Anal Sphincter” figure into that?

[hobie]

I asked Gemini AI this. We'll have to decide which most applies to Frankie:

"Is there a clinical psychological term for someone fixated on others' homosexuality?"

While there is no specific clinical psychological term for someone fixated on other people's homosexuality, the behavior could be related to several recognized psychological concepts. The specific term would depend on the nature of the fixation, such as whether it involves obsessive thoughts, homophobia, or delusional beliefs.

Potential related psychological concepts

Latent homosexuality and psychological projection
Latent homosexuality, a concept originally from Sigmund Freud, refers to an unconscious or unexpressed same-sex attraction.
Some psychoanalytic perspectives suggest that a person who is unconsciously struggling with their own same-sex attractions may project their feelings onto others.
The intense focus on and criticism of others' homosexuality could be a defensive reaction to deny and suppress their own unwanted homosexual feelings.

Sexual Orientation Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (SO-OCD)
For a person experiencing constant, intrusive, and distressing thoughts about their own sexual orientation, a type of OCD called Sexual Orientation Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (SO-OCD) or Homosexual Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (HOCD) may be relevant.
While this term describes someone with an obsession about their own sexuality, not others', the theme of fixation on homosexuality is central.
The obsessions are unwanted and anxiety-provoking, often leading to compulsive behaviors like checking for arousal or constantly seeking reassurance.

Homophobia
While not a clinical diagnosis, homophobia is a recognized term for prejudice, fear, or hatred toward homosexual people.
A strong, often irrational, fixation on others' homosexuality is a common symptom of homophobic behavior.
It can be a manifestation of deeper-seated insecurities or anxieties about one's own sexuality or identity.
Paranoid personality or delusional disorder
In rare cases, if the fixation takes the form of unfounded, paranoid beliefs—such as thinking that gay people are conspiring against them—it could be a symptom of a delusional disorder, persecutory type.
This involves a non-bizarre, but persistent and incorrect, belief that one is being malevolently treated by others.
A severe fixation might also be a sign of a paranoid personality disorder, characterized by a pervasive distrust and suspicion of others.

[Poxigah146]

He shouldn't have gotten anything. Mann Act violations are almost never prosecuted. He was sentenced for things that he was acquitted of, despite the judge's protestations to the contrary.

[DDHarriman]

Has anyone seen a chemtrail since the shutdown?

I haven't.

That's pretty weird.

[Paladin_44]

Saw quite a few on the golf course today.

[David Nieporent]

Nobody not under intense psychiatric care saw them before the shutdown either.

[Kazinski]

Despite the shutdown Immigration courts are still open:

"An immigration judge on Wednesday denied a motion filed by Kilmar Abrego Garcia's attorneys to reopen his immigration case, according to a copy of the decision obtained by ABC News.

In the emergency motion filed in August to reopen the case, attorneys for the wrongly deported Abrego Garcia argued that because he was deported to El Salvador and then brought back to the United States, he is now eligible to apply for asylum within one year of his last entry into the U.S.

But in the order filed on Wednesday, Regional Deputy Chief Immigration Judge Philip Taylor said that Abrego Garcia's motion to reopen his motion to seek asylum is "untimely" because he filed the motion nearly six years after his immigration proceedings -- beyond the 90-day deadline required."

"The immigration judge also said that evidence Abrego Garcia provided in his motion arguing for protection due to his fear that he will be tortured or killed by the Salvadoran government because he's been labeled an MS-13 gang member is "insufficient."

Judge Taylor said that when Abrego Garcia was detained in El Salvador's CECOT mega-prison, he was not subjected to "the conditions described in his country conditions evidence," and added that Abrego Garcia indicated that he was not "specifically singled out" by CECOT guards "before his mistreatment started or while it was taking place."

So now Garcia has 30 days to appeal his case, then after his appeal is denied he will be free to be deported.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/doj-seeks-postpone-deadlines-abrego-garcias-deportation-case/story?id=126132382

[Zarniwoop]

Despite the shutdown Immigration courts are still open:

I assume immigration courts, like many other Federal operations that are deemed essential (FBI, Secret Service, TSA, Pentagon, White House, etc.) remain open despite the lack of funds.

They're not getting paid, but are required to show up for work.

What's your point?

[Kazinski]

My point was that Albrego Garcia has lost his asylum case.

As for the immigration courts being open, its because they, and the INS and CBP received had a special appropriation in the OBBB. The reason I brought it up is perhaps many people would assume that most federal functions are shutdown but its only 34% of federal workers are being furloughed.

[Commenter_XY]

That POS will be gone soon enough.

[Mr. Bumble]

Who are the lawyers representing him in his various cases (he still has one pending in TN I believe) and who is footing the bill?

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

What did Roget eat for breakfast?

--- Synonym Toast

I'll show myself out.

[Paladin_44]

Please do!

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

You seem angry. Did your Trumpcoin lose value?

[John F. Carr]

Kavanaugh's would-be assassin invoked the Manning rule and got an 8 year sentence instead of 30. Killing a judge for political reasons is terrorism under federal criminal law. Crimes of terrorism have a presumptive sentence of decades in prison under the guidelines. The prosecution calculated the guidelines range as 30 years to life.

I observed before in this case, the sentencing guidelines for attempts do not do a good job of measuring culpability. Giving up a block away from the target is an attempt just like shooting and missing.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Giving up a block away from the target is an attempt just like shooting and missing.

?

[TwelveInchPianist]

She's a lucky woman. Not many people get a 22-year downward departure.

[TwelveInchPianist]

The Judge:

I am heartened that this terrible infraction has helped the Roske family… accept their daughter for who she is,

[Brett Bellmore]

Bleah. Not a lucky woman, a clever man. A bit of research revealed the judge was a sucker for anyone who claimed to be alphabet soup, so he became "trans".

[TwelveInchPianist]

Apparently it was quite a touching scene:

His mother Colleen told the judge on Friday that “I have attended PFLAG meetings and learned about the LGBTQ+ community. I am committed to going on this journey with Sophie… She was frustrated with what was going on in the world, and we weren’t a safe place to process it.” As his mother wept, Nicholas Roske also choked up, his Adam’s apple bobbing up and down.

[Kazinski]

The DOJ is going to appeal the sentence, so I doubt the departure will be sustained.

[Michael P]

I thought the giving up was upon seeing federal marshals outside of Kavanaugh's house, which would be even more culpable than spontaneously giving up a block away.

[SRG2]

What is the Manning Rule? I know a Manning Rule from Finra to prevent rat trading but not a legal rule.

[Brett Bellmore]

Army Must Refer To Chelsea Manning As "She"

"The order from the U.S. Army Court of Criminal Appeals, dated Wednesday, said:

Reference to appellant in all future formal papers filed before this court and all future orders and decisions issued by this court shall either be neutral, e.g., Private First Class Manning or appellant, or employ a feminine pronoun."

[David Nieporent]

Giving up a block away from the target is an attempt just like shooting and missing.

Giving up a block away from the target is an attempt, and shooting and missing is also an attempt, but giving up a block away from the target is an attempt very different than shooting and missing.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Do the sentencing guidelines reflect the difference? I understood his comment to say that they do not, and that was his point.

[David Nieporent]

The sentencing guidelines cover categories, not the specifics that make each case unique.

And as a purely practical matter, we would want to punish an attempt abandoned before the violence starts much more leniently than an attempt involving violent conduct. Because we want to encourage people to stop before they get to the violent conduct. If the penalties are the same, then there's no incentive to stop.

[TwelveInchPianist]

It sounds like that was what JC was saying.

Of course, the incentive is to stop before the crime becomes complete.

[ThePublius]

Holy shit:

"This morning, during routine patrolling in Broadview, in the same area of Chicago that law enforcement were assaulted yesterday, our brave law enforcement officers were rammed by vehicles and boxed in by 10 cars.

Agents were unable to move their vehicles and exited the car. One of the drivers who rammed the law enforcement vehicle was armed with a semi-automatic weapon. Law enforcement was forced to deploy their weapons and fire defensive shots at an armed US citizen who drove herself to the hospital to get care for wounds.

The armed woman was named in a
@CBP
intelligence bulletin last week for doxing agents and posting online ‘Hey to all my gang let’s fuck those mother fuckers up, don’t let them take anyone.’

Thankfully, no law enforcement officers were seriously injured in this attack.

Pritzker’s Chicago Police Department is leaving the shooting scene and refuses to assist us in securing the area. There is a growing crowd and we are deploying special operations to control the scene.

This is an evolving situation and we will give more information as soon as it becomes available."

You leftists own this! You're so quick to throw around the insurrection thing, but this is insurrection on the part of Pritzker, et.al.

[David Nieporent]

Is this as true as everything else Tricia McLaughlin says?

[Bwaaah]

Israeli officials extricated and detained Greta Thurnberg from her Gaza-busting flotilla.

According to Swedish Foreign Ministry officials, Greta "said she had been sitting for long periods on hard surfaces."

Hard surfaces, my friends. Greta Thurnberg. And Zionist Climate Genocide.

And hard surfaces.

Did I mistakenly ingest something, or is it going to be like this forever?