Friday Open Thread

What's on your mind?

Comments

[not guilty]

Benchslap!!
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/newsom-vs-trump-order-granting-ex-parte.pdf

Why can't Donald Trump devote as much energy to seeing that the laws are faithfully executed as he does in flouting the laws?

[Commenter_XY]

That benchslap was muted...by the appeals ct.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/06/12/trump-guard-california-newsom602riya.html

[not guilty]

The administrative stay is by no means a ruling on the merits. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca9.4e2731d4-cbd8-4803-a59f-a1d0c6023daf/gov.uscourts.ca9.4e2731d4-cbd8-4803-a59f-a1d0c6023daf.10.0_1.pdf

[Commenter_XY]

NG...Are you as sure of this as you were of the CO ballot case last year? It was a sure thing, a slam dunk. Remember?

[not guilty]

I am sure that the administrative stay is not a ruling on the merits. As sure as you are sitting there.

[Mr. Bumble]

Making lemonade?

[Kazinski]

But you know the administrative stay, if its allowed to expire and not replaced with preliminary stay, would be immediately reinstated by the Supreme Court.

There is one way though to make Trump have to withdraw the troops even before the administrative stay expires: stop the violence and the illegal interference of federal officers.

[hobie]

"stop the violence and the illegal interference of federal officers."

Oh the irony! Why go to The Onion for daily enjoyment when we have MAGA.

[Reallynotbob]

Doubtful. Trump federalized the guard for 60 days.

[Kazinski]

There is also a perfectly legal way to bypass the order without violating any of its provisions, even if it wasn't stayed.

Trump just has to federalize the guard in another state, who's governor would cooperate, then deploy those guardsmen in Los Angeles.

The statute says he can use the guard in any state, nothing says they can only be deployed in their home state.

[Martinned]

Indeed. Why not add an interestate element to this civil war?

[Brett Bellmore]

I'm pretty sure that, in a multi-state federation, any civil war is interstate, inherently.

But, yes, it is a very low level civil war at this point, the states in rebellion against federal law (On multiple fronts, not just immigration.) are just still desperate to retain some deniability, and reluctant to escalate too far.

[Sarcastr0]

It’s not a civil war they no one cares to follow BrettLaw.

[Brett Bellmore]

It's a civil war if J-6 was an insurrection.

California is determined to thwart enforcement of federal law, just as they're determined to violate constitutional rights they disapprove of.

At this point they're not yet ready to directly pit their own people against federal forces, so they limit themselves to passive aggression and failing to stop sorta private actors who move against the federal government.

I tend to think they're more likely to play the secession card than the civil war card, though, if they work up the courage to be open in their defiance.

[Martinned]

Defiance of what? Only one side here is following the laws and the ideals of the United States, and it isn't the president.

[Brett Bellmore]

Bullshit. Our immigration laws are the laws of the United States, and California is a 'sanctuary' jurisdiction officially opposed to their enforcement, which has even gone so far as to impose on private businesses a legal obligation to warn employees when ICE is staging a raid.

And not just our immigration laws, the 2nd amendment, too, is the highest law of the land, and California is in open rebellion against that civil right.

And these riots? Funded and organized by groups the state itself has funded. The deniability is wearing pretty thin at this point.

[Sarcastr0]

You don't know our immigration laws. Because you don't actually care for all your blandishments about Following the Law.

California is in open rebellion against that civil right.
The Supreme Court hasn't really spoken on that. Lower courts think you're wrong.
Until either changes, you can whine about BrettLaw and declare a rebellion all you want. It just makes you look ridiculous.

[Joe_dallas]

Sarcastr0 12 minutes ago
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"You don't know our immigration laws. Because you don't actually care for all your blandishments about Following the Law."

That is an absolute BS comment -
you have both TDS and Brett derangement syndrome.

[Randal]

So? Florida, Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma are in open rebellion against the First Amendment. Lots of states were in open rebellion against the right to privacy for 50 years.

Being actively opposed to certian federal laws, even constitutional ones, isn't a war. There's always going to be disagreement in a democracy, and it's especially visible in a federation. Don't be a warmonger.

[Poxigah146]

There is no right to privacy, at least not in the Constitution.

[Randal]

There is no right to privacy, at least not in the Constitution.

There's no right to self-defense either. See how easy this game is? Are you and me having a civil war?

[Joe_dallas]

Really -
who is encouraging illegal immigration
Who is impeding enforcement of federal law

[Sarcastr0]

No new goalposts. Your original thesis: "the states in rebellion against federal law (On multiple fronts, not just immigration.)"

Your threshold for what's a Civil War is not doing what Brett wants.

But even your new goaposts are pathetic. "passive aggression" is a low-level civil war?

I tend to think they're more likely to play the secession card than the civil war card, though, if they work up the courage
Your political thriller still sucks.

[tylertusta]

Things haven't been this hot since the 70's and 80's when left-wingers were bombing buildings and murdering people.

It's definitely not a conventional war, but there's definitely an underlying insurgency that enjoys at the very least some tacit support from Democrats. The mob is useful for achieving their political goals.

The good news is that the Trump administration now has the time and ability to chase down the links that supports the riots.* Things are going to get really messy for a lot of organizations as the money trail gets followed.

* Note that I said riots. It wasn't a euphemism for protests.

[Brett Bellmore]

The good news is that the Trump administration WANTS to chase down the links, and go after the people behind the rioters.

[Sarcastr0]

I fully expect them to make such accusations. And for you to trust them completely with no further evidence needed.

[Brett Bellmore]

And I fully expect you to claim that random people are giving rioters thousands of dollars worth of high end gas masks and riot shields, spontaneously out of the goodness of their hearts. Had just been taking up space in the garage, glad to be rid of them!

[Sarcastr0]

High-end gas masks and riot shields, eh?

Hadn't heard that.

Assuming it's true, I do not share your compulsion to immediately go weaving a story from it until more facts are in.

[Mr. Bumble]

Your lack of awareness doesn't mean the facts aren't in.
Once a douche, always a douche.

[Mr. Bumble]

ARRESTED: Alejandro Theodoro Orellana was arrested this morning by @FBILosAngeles on an allegation of Conspiracy to Commit Civil Disorders (18 USC 371) for distributing face shields to suspected rioters on Tuesday. We are moving quickly to identify and arrest those involved in… pic.twitter.com/Ase8kxupfp

— U.S. Attorney Bill Essayli (@USAttyEssayli) June 12, 2025

[Magister]

Newsweek article says "Footage of the scene showed boxes of solid, full-face masks—almost akin to helmets" branded "bionic shield". They do not appear to be gas masks, nor do there appear to be shields, just a word in the branding. The story has not yet been reported that widely, though, so plenty of room for bigger and better conspiracy theories.

Distributing safety gear to avoid people being blinded by rubber bullets is obviously something that should be illegal in the same way that Georgia outlawed giving bottled water to people waiting in line to vote where the state has too few polling sites. Fascists don't want people to be able to exercise their constitutional rights safely.

[David Nieporent]

thousands of dollars worth of high end gas masks and riot shields,

I see we're in the "take one anecdote that doesn't actually support a claim and run far beyond that anecdote."

They supposedly have one guy who was handing out a few face shields. The "thousands of dollars" part is just made up.

[David Nieporent]

"Footage of the scene showed boxes of solid, full-face masks—almost akin to helmets" branded "bionic shield".

If you — as I did earlier — google, you'll see that these are like $25-$30 items, depending on brand. Given the boxes depicted in the footage, they could have had maybe 20 of them in a car. In other words, hundreds, not thousands, of dollars.

If you followed the breathless conspiracymongering on Twitter, you'd think they had uncovered warehouses rented by Antifa containing thousands of these items.

[David Nieporent]

Things are going to get really messy for a lot of organizations as the money trail gets followed.

Trouble for Trump is, conspiracy theories don't play as well in court as they do on Twitter.

[Poxigah146]

Trouble for you all, is that we don't care what Democrat judges in court think anymore. Most of us want Trump to ignore these lawless thugs.

[Randal]

Most of us want...

Yes, most of the retards. Not most of anyone who matters. Not even most Republicans.

https://youtu.be/d7lxwFEB6FI

[wnoise]

What, like Soros?

People are upset that ICE are being heavy-handed thugs, hurting their friends and neighbors. (Legally? Plausibly, given the wide latitude that SCOTUS gives the feds.) But it doesn't take "outside agitators" or "people behind the rioters" to get people riled up enough to riot.

[Kazinski]

I think it was much hotter in 2020.

[Reallynotbob]

If you think LA protests and J6 insurrection constitute civil war, you must have thought Ruby Ridge was an apocalypse.

[Don Nico]

Martin,
You admit that this is a rebellion. Bully for you.

[Martinned]

No I don't. You're confused about who is attacking whom.

[Don Nico]

Martin, the NG has not fired on anyone. They are protecting the federal building. The physical confrontation is between the mob and the police. Get the story straight. But "civil war" was your phrase.
Had the Mayor allowed the police to protect the government officials on day one, the NG would never have been called up.

[Martinned]

It's important to litigate this stuff, but it's also important not to miss the forest for the trees: Using the army to shut down a demonstration the president doesn't like is bad regardless of whether it's legal.

[Brett Bellmore]

Whereas, using it to stop rioters from attacking federal employees? Instead good.

And that's what's happening here. They could be demonstrating to their heart's content if they'd never gotten violent.

[Martinned]

If it's that easy to convince large numbers of Americans of such nonsense, you can see why Trump is wiping his ass with the Constitution.

[Michael Ejercito]

There is no right to riot.

[hobie]

Pray tell what should we do with people who riot in federal installations and attack federal employees, Brett? Better yet, what should we do if we discover that the riots were all pretext of a larger coordination to overthrow the government of Los Angeles? What should we do to the coordinators, Brett?

[Martinned]

to overthrow the government of Los Angeles

No, no, to "liberate" Los Angeles from its democratically elected government.

[Brett Bellmore]

I'm not sure what your point is. I guess you're making some analogy to January 6th, but if the January 6th rioters had been remotely as violent as the people rioting in California and attacking ICE there, the Capitol building would have burned to the ground. And if they were trying to overthrow a government, they sure didn't act like it.

I'm on record saying that Trump was too indiscriminant with his pardons of the J-6 people, some of them were innocents caught up in the moment, and some were bad guys committing premeditated crimes. But the California rioters are much more clearly criminal in intent and action.

[hobie]

As always, Brett. It has to be spelled out for you. The riot had nothing to do with the plot to overturn the election.

[Bwaaah]

Hobie, speaking as a teacher. Lofty. Insightful. Commanding.

Zero.

[Frank Drackman]

Floyd R Turbo-Amurican (anyone gets that reference, I'll buy you a drink) made more cogent comments

[Reallynotbob]

How many LAPD or ICE officers (or NG or Marines if that's relevant) in LA have been seriously hurt?

J6 on the other hand...

[Kazinski]

Lets try an experiment, everyone quit throwing rocks, burning cars, looting, and impeding immigration officers for a few days and see what happens.

My prediction is no more rubber bullets, tear gas, or arrests (well except for illegals).

[Martinned]

My prediction is that all the Trumpist news outlets (and the administration itself) would insist that "throwing rocks, burning cars, looting, and impeding immigration officers" is happening whether it is actually happening or not. That's a pretty safe prediction, given the experience of the last week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHxGUe1cjzM

[Brett Bellmore]

Eh, give it a try. It's kind of silly being confident that they'd lie about violence, if your side refrained from actually being violent.

[Magister]

Given that right wingers are already misrepresenting events in Los Angeles, it's a pretty safe prediction. Did you hear that Donald Trump commended the job the National Guard was doing ... before they actually arrived? Did you see clips from 2020, from video games, from other countries put forth as evidence of the violence?

[Brett Bellmore]

Does that mean more than Democrats using pictures of kids in cages during the Obama administration to smear Trump?

The amount of noise in our political discourse is insane, on all sides.

[Magister]

The picture was wrong, but the fact was that the Trump administration separated children from parents with no way of ever reuniting them or even knowing which children belonged with which parents, and this was wrong and was happening. Kind of like shipping people to a notorious El Salvador prison with no way to undo it if they made a mistake.

The misrepresentations being made in this case, while much beloved by the Brett Bellmore types, are promoting something that is not true.

[Brett Bellmore]

The fact of the matter is that the government was under a court order requiring parents to be separated from children if they were detained, because it didn't permit them to be detained together.

But, you know, that's pretty normal: If I and my wife were thrown in jail over something, they wouldn't give my minor son an adjoining cell. They'd throw him in foster care.

[Magister]

You completely missed the part about no plan to reunite them, ever. You are not yet as vile a human being as Commenter_XY, but don't give up on it; still time to move up in the rankings!

[Joe_dallas]

mag - you are completely distorting the facts

[David Nieporent]

Yet another failure from bookkeeper_joe to actually make a substantive comment with supporting facts, but instead just making a vague clim that someone is wrong.

I'm shocked. Shocked. Well, not that shocked.

[Randal]

They lied during George Floyd, they're lying now.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fox-news-used-digitally-altered-170759654.html

[Joe_dallas]

Heavy editing of video and audio has been the staple of the msm for decades. lets pretend the msm have been honest all these years

This morning AP reported the NG is quelling the 'demonstrations" though no mention of "riots" in that report.

[Moderation4ever]

Let extend your experiment to government officials doing their job as it is expected to be done. Not showing up unannounced, hiding behind masks, and not extended due process. Arresting people should be done on the basis of law not on a number game to arrest so many per day.

[Brett Bellmore]

Do police usually give criminals advance warning before showing up to arrest them, so that they have an opportunity to flee?

[tylertusta]

Marquess of Queensberry Rules rules for law enforcement!

Give them a head start, and bystanders are able to do anything they want to block law enforcement.

[Moderation4ever]

Police wear name tags, show their faces and understand the laws for taking an individual into custody.

[Sarcastr0]

You need to establish a flight risk to do that usually, Brett.

Part of the drama here is that they're using cruel surprise tactics to go after people who are acting in ways that demonstrates they're not a flight risk.
It's not just directly monstrous, it's bad policy since it incentivizes people to hide and not go to their immigration hearings.

Policy and due process don't matter since these people are not human to Brett. He just wants cruelty.

[Joe_dallas]

Sarcastr0 43 minutes ago
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"You need to establish a flight risk to do that usually, Brett."

Flight risk is for bail, not for the initial arrest

[David Nieporent]

No, it's for initial arrests also. People who aren't considered dangerous or a flight risk are routinely given a time and place to turn themselves in.

[Mr. Bumble]

...unless they were associated with DJT.

[Joe_dallas]

David Nieporent 36 minutes ago
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No, it's for initial arrests also. People who aren't considered dangerous or a flight risk are routinely given a time and place to turn themselves in.

True and false -

False for the crimes committed

Try again with your intentional distortions

[David Nieporent]

True and false -

False for the crimes committed

Overstaying a visa isn't a crime at all. Sneaking across the border (the first time) is a misdemeanor. These are minor offenses.

[Joe_dallas]

Misconstruing the applicble facts again

Not shocked - sop for the a leftist

[David Nieporent]

Does bookkeeper_joe actually think he's fooling anyone into thinking he knows anything about these topics?

[Frank Drackman]

Lets try a better experiment, everyone throwing rocks, burning cars, looting, and impeding immigration officers gets a 5.56mm (or 7.62) Lobotomy (and no smarties, Ashli Babbit wasn't doing any of those things)

[Reallynotbob]

She was just breaking into the House of Representatives at the front of a mob that had already seriously injured Capitol Police, by crawling over barricades and pushing into a door despite directions from the armed officers inside that she would be shot.

But you're right, she wasn't in LA so there's that.

[Frank Drackman]

It's supposed to be "The Peoples House" so she was 1: Breaking into her own House, like that Henry Lewis Gates guy, and 2: I guess one of those Fat Slob Capitol Cops having a Heart Attack after having to actually stand up and move around could be considered "seriously injuring",
Oh, and there's that other Fat Slob Capitol Cop who makes all the appearances, hasn't been able to work since January 6th, doesn't look like he's missed any meals.
My problem with January 6th, 2021??
That Stew-Pid "Gallows" that wouldn't have supported Fancy Nancy P's weight, much less Jerry "The Nad" Nadlers, a disgrace, that the only way you could get a decent Gallows built is with Illegal Immigrants (so OK, there is this invention called "The Gun" and with this invention you can do Executions)

Frank

[Kazinski]

There is no way shooting Ashli Babbit met the 4th amendment standard of imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm.

Ignoring directions from the police doesn't meet that standard.

[Sarcastr0]

She was the head of a mob that intended harm.

She breached the door.

It’s tragic, but it’s kind of amazing you could think she wasn’t a threat.

[Bunny495]

She was crawling through a broken window and shot with what was looked like a 9mm handgun while two LEOs with far more powerful long guns were standing right behind her and did not see the necessity for a fatal response. I seriously suspect the 9mm was a Glock. As the 1911 guys say pistol whipping someone with a hunk of plastic just does not get your message across. Even grabbing her by the scruff of the neck or some other would been a more justifiable action by he who shall not be named. Not trying to be sexist but if the shooter could not simply overpower her with ease it raises the question of how effective he would be as a LEO.

[David Nieporent]

I would hope he could overpower her if that situation arose — but that wasn't the situation he faced. She was leading a mob. He couldn't retreat because he was holding the door of a room of people he was supposed to be protecting.

[Magister]

If the police let her proceed to the House chamber where representatives were still present, what would have happened? The rest of the mob following her example? There's less justification for shooting the next person in the mob if you didn't shoot the first one, and not shooting any of the "hang Mike Pence" insurrectionists would have led to greater loss of life.

One should certainly have more admiration for Eugene Goodman, who diverted insurrectionists from the Senate chamber before it was evacuated without shooting anyone.

[not guilty]

"There is no way shooting Ashli Babbit met the 4th amendment standard of imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm."

Actually, under all the circumstances, it did meet that standard.

[David Nieporent]

How about if we try an experiment where ICE doesn't go around raiding businesses and arresting people indiscriminately for a few days, and see what happens?

My prediction is no more throwing rocks, burning cars, looting, and impeding immigration officers.

[Brett Bellmore]

Where they don't do their job?

[Commenter_XY]

And destroy the country.

[Riva]

Those "people" detained by ICE wouldn't happen to be illegal aliens, would they crazy Dave? Illegal as in not legally entitled to work and set up residence in this country, in case you were curious.

[Harvey Mosley]

Hey, this is fun. Can we all pick which laws we want to follow and expect law enforcement to leave us alone? At least for non-violent crimes? I'm all in! No deporting illegals and I get to violate whatever laws I want with impunity. That's what you are advocating, isn't it?

Or is it just laws that the left riots over that we get a pass on?

[Joe_dallas]

Forest for the trees is a great comparison

Who is pro riots
Who is impeding the quelling of the riots

[Moderation4ever]

If the Trump administration was truly interested in quelling the riots they would be reaching out to community leaders. Bringing in troop is something you see in Communist countries like Soviet troops in Czechoslovakia or Chinses troops in Tiananmen Square.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Back in the '90s, Clinton dealt with Militias. Ruby Ridge. Waco.
Did he reach out to "community leaders"? Or even local LEOs?

[Martinned]

Or even local LEOs?

As far as I know, he did.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The local Sheriff said he'd arrest Koresh, without bloodshed, the next time he came into town and give him to ATF. He warned them not to do what they did, if he'd heard they were coming, the BD definitely knew.

[David Nieporent]

Why would the governor of Arkansas be reaching out to community leaders in Idaho?

[Joe_dallas]

Reaching out to bass & newsom?
Seriously?

Behind the scenes they are encouraging the riots

[Moderation4ever]

You are giving me political leaders and I am talking about community leaders. Heads of churches, community organizations, and business leaders. These are the people who can use their influence to allow protests but sop or at least limit violence. This is a libertarian blog and that means thinking about more that government be it Trump, Newsom or Bass.

[Joe_dallas]

Cant bring yourself to condemn any of the CA officials that directly led to the need for the NG

Serious confusion and misdirected hate - Trump is bad for fixing what Newsom, Bass et al f__'d up

[Reallynotbob]

Yup. Seems fixed. Good job, DJT.

Maybe he can fix one of the things he actually campaigned on. (And no, immigration isn't fixed.)

[bernard11]

Behind the scenes they are encouraging the riots

You know this how?

[Joe_dallas]

Why no condemnation of bass & newsom actions?

[Randal]

What actions? I'm still unclear what this particular conspiracy theory is all about.

[Joe_dallas]

Randal 2 hours ago
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What actions? I'm still unclear what this particular conspiracy theory is all about.

That response is both idiotic and inane

[Harvey Mosley]

Exactly! What actions? They weren't stopping this.

[Mr. Bumble]

"Community leaders" Hahahahahahaha

[bernard11]

Frankly, Joe, I think Trump is pro-riots. I think he loves them so he can act tough, and shove his other idiocies and crimes out of the limelight.

[Frank Drackman]

You might be on to something, if he's not paying the guys with Mexican Flags, he should be.

[bernard11]

Or promising to pay them, anyway.

[Riva]

The national guard and marines are not responding to a “demonstration.” The president is using his authority as Commander and Chief and in light of the serious threat to federal property and personnel and the extent of the riots threatening national security. A federal judge has no authority to second guess the president in this context. it is a judicial coup mirroring the attempted coup in the streets. The district judge was grossly exceeding his authority and he was the one slapped down. In fact, the president would be right to just ignore him. But it is telling that the president is the only branch of government using restraint here, until the appeals court started waking up to the judicial insanity.

[Reallynotbob]

Ah, the national security implications of a burned out Waymo.

I'm not sanctioning arson, but c'mon with the "national security" showbiz.

[Armchair]

If it was just a demonstration, the mayor of LA wouldn't be putting a curfew into place

[tylertusta]

A fiery but mostly peaceful demonstration!

[Martinned]

Whatever it takes to protect the people from Trump.

[Joe_dallas]

Trump called the NG to fix what the CA f'd up

Direct your hate at the cause , not the solution.

That may be too difficult for a woke leftist to admit

[Sarcastr0]

Thanks to Trump, it sure is more than a demonstration.

[Armchair]

"We had to attack her, she was wearing tight clothes! It's her fault we attacked!"

[Sarcastr0]

Trump needlessly sending in the national guard while Miller talks about regime change in California is the equivalent of wearing tight clothes?

I do not follow this analogy.

[Joe_dallas]

Still cant bring yourself to admit the riots are a direct result of progressives encouraging the illegal immigration and the progressive officials hindering enforcement of state and federal law.

[Randal]

the riots are a direct result of progressives...

Haha oh this is your conspiracy theory? Lol that's even more ridiculous than I was expecting!

No, the riots were a direct result of Trump's performatively cruel raids against immigrants who are clearly not "the worst of the worst criminals." That's, like, drool-inducingly obvious.

Also obviously, the riots are continuing much to Trump's delight by virtue of his (again performative) military escalations.

This is all just Trump-orchestrated MAGA entertainment.

[Joe_dallas]

Randal - I am going to repeat Don Nico's comment -

Don Nico 5 hours ago
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No, thanks to Bass and Newsom, the demonstration turned into a rebellious mob action. Get the sign correct for a change.

[Randal]

How? You still haven't given any reason to think that the demonstration turned into a rebellious mob due to anything Bass or Newsom did or didn't do. I know you really want to think that's true, but that's not how truth works.

[Joe_dallas]

Randal your response shows your delusions, quite a few others have corrected your erroneous believes

[Randal]

quite a few others have corrected your erroneous believes

Uh, no, no one has. You've just got this talking point. There's no substance behind it at all.

[Reallynotbob]

You know, a less provocative option would have included appropriate funding for immigration courts. $34 million would go a looooong way toward moving those dockets more quickly, thereby expelling the unworthy more efficiently.

Maybe the $34 million was already earmarked for something important.

[Joe_dallas]

enlarging the immigration courts would help

though that step is only needed because the biden administration did everything except send out formal invitations to the illegal aliens

[Don Nico]

No, thanks to Bass and Newsom, the demonstration turned into a rebellious mob action. Get the sign correct for a change.

[Joe_dallas]

Concur
Notice - not a single person condemning trump is condemning the root cause. that says a lot about the moral compass of progressives.

[Magister]

The root cause is at least Stephen Miller wanting the number of arrests and deportations increased significantly, prompting the excesses of ICE, prompting protests. Nobody defending Trump is condemning the actual root cause.

[Joe_dallas]

What an idiotic response

The core problem and root cause is the encouragement of illegal immigration and the encouragement of protest against the enforcement of federal and state laws

Just another example of leftists lack of a moral compass

[Magister]

Grow up; people disagree on root causes. (For the record, dressing like sluts is not the root cause of rape; victims being uppity is not the root cause of racist hate crimes.)

Anyway, take it up with Forbes; if Sonja T writes them a harsh letter calling them idiotic, I'm sure they'll publish a swift retraction.

[Joe_dallas]

your comment is idiotic and flat out factually wrong.

The root cause is in fact the encouragement of illegal immigration and the encouragement to defy enforcement of federal law.

[Magister]

Again, take it up with Forbes. You and your sock puppet can undoubtedly make them see reason, despite your inability to actually provide that thing called evidence. (Being best known for a sock puppet means you've blown ethos, and you seem incapable of logos; pathos alone turns into mere table pounding.)

[bernard11]

The root cause is unnecessary inflammatory behavior by ICE and Trump, seeking to make political hay.

[Reallynotbob]

The last President to officially sanction illegal immigration was Ronald Regan. Go blame him.

[Joe_dallas]

Reallynotbob 44 minutes ago
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Mute User
The last President to officially sanction illegal immigration

Biden unofficially sanctioned illegal immigration
Lets not let facts get in the way

[Commenter_XY]

The root cause is the illegal alien crossing our border, dipshit.

[not guilty]

"The root cause is the illegal alien crossing our border, dipshit."

Commenter_XY, which Native American tribe are you descended from?

[Kazinski]

They did send out formal invitations.

What do you think the CBP1 app was?

[David Nieporent]

Literally the opposite of illegal immigration. It was a way for people to make appointments with CBP, which by definition is 180° from entry without inspection.

[Kazinski]

Well as we have discussed at length before, Dave, it had nothing to do with immigration, legal or illegal.

Because Parole doesn't confer any status that leads to immigration.

[David Nieporent]

Utterly irrelevant to the point: the CBP was a way for them to come here legally, so it by definition could not be "invitations to illegal aliens."

[Harvey Mosley]

Typical. "These people have no agency! They were forced to riot because federal law enforcement was doing their job!"

[Don Nico]

That is a lie, Martin.
The army is NOT shutting down any demonstrations. The NG is standing guard in place; the police are confronting the mob.

[Michael P]

Dumb judges making bad rulings that get stayed, mandamused or overturned almost immediately is not the same as Donald Trump flouting the laws.

[Dr. Ed 2]

It's time for Trump to start tossing judges in jail.

It worked for Lincoln...

[Frank Drackman]

I'm more for Proscriptions.
It worked for Mark Antony (more so for Octavian)

[David Nieporent]

Name two judges that Lincoln tossed in jail.

[Frank Drackman]

Blow and Me?

[Kazinski]

Got to give Breyer credit, ignoring two Supreme Court cases in one ruling. Its hard to square this:

Accordingly, the Court concludes that the Plaintiffs have demonstrated the balance of equities tips in their favor and that an injunction restraining the President's use of military force in Los Angeles is in the public interest.

with Marbury v Madison:

"By the Constitution of the United States, the President is invested with certain important political powers, in the exercise of which he is to use his own discretion, and is accountable only to his country in his political character and to his own conscience.... ; and whatever opinion may be entertained of the manner in which executive discretion may be used, still there exists, and can exist, no power to control that discretion. The subjects are political. They respect the nation, not individual rights, and, being entrusted to the Executive, the decision of the Executive is conclusive."

This may be a first, a district court judge directly enjoining the President.

And Breyer then substitutes his own discretion for the President's, which was specifically delegated to the President by Congress:
"the President may call into Federal service members and units of the National Guard of any State in such numbers as he considers necessary to repel the invasion, suppress the rebellion, or execute those laws."

Breyer then dismisses Martin v Mott out of hand, another decision from the Marshall court, but this one written by Joseph Story.

[Martinned]

There is no invasion or rebellion.

[Mr. Bumble]

"There is no invasion or rebellion." Maybe but you left this out: "or execute those laws."

[Martinned]

I did leave that out, because Kazinski didn't explain which laws would justify sending in the army to enforce them, and in which circumstances, so I assumed he'd only included that bit for completeness.

[Kazinski]

Its not a question of the "army" enforcing immigration laws, its a question of whether the army can prevent rioters from interfering with federal officers enforcement of immigration law.

[Martinned]

Can they? And should they? And were they?

Because as far as I can see Trump picked a fight with the left in California because it suited his political needs. He wanted a casus belli to send the army after the political left, and he found one. Whether anyone was actually being interfered with is neither necessary nor sufficient for this mess.

[Commenter_XY]

Can they prevent rioters from interfering with federal officers enforcement of immigration law? Yes

Should they prevent rioters from interfering with federal officers enforcement of immigration law? Yes

Were they preventing rioters from interfering with federal officers enforcement of immigration law? Yes. They also stopped the mayhem in the streets.

[Martinned]

A Republic, if you can keep it...

[Mr. Bumble]

Trying...

[Joe_dallas]

Martin - please explain the CA officials irresponsible behavior in allowing the riots to escalate

[Dr. Ed 2]

WAITING 2 HOURS BEFORE RESPONDING TO A 911 CALL...

[Magister]

Now do Trump waiting over 3 hours on January 6th, 2021. But turn off the caps lock, OK?

[Michael P]

Trump didn't wait on January 6th. https://pjmedia.com/matt-margolis/2025/06/09/heres-who-really-denied-national-guard-troops-on-january-6and-it-wasnt-trump-n4940625

[Magister]

An endlessly debunked claim trotted out again. Trump didn't need anyone to ask for National Guard intervention; he had the authority to do it all on his own but didn't. Instead, he was watching the insurrection and ignoring requests from advisors and family that he act to stop it.

[Martinned]

What were they supposed to do, shoot at ICE to get them to stop terrorising the local population?

[Joe_dallas]

The people terrorizing the local population are the rioters

[bye]

There is even by the laxest standards

BREAKING - The man seen distributing tens of thousands of dollars worth of face shields in Los Angeles to rioters has been identified as Alejandro Orellana, a known member of the Brown Berets, a radical Latino paramilitary group that are currently embedded in cities across the United States.

[Randal]

Lol the right likes their proud boys and assault rifles but gets afraid out of their minds when an arsenal of face shields shows up in the hands of... Latinos!

You guys are too much.

[David Nieporent]

This is from Alex Jones. Strangely, he doesn't think Orellana is a crisis actor.

[Frank Drackman]

All is well!!!!!!!

[Don Nico]

you said there was.. several posts ago. A civil war you called it.

[Martinned]

I'm not sure what that's a reply to, but I assume it's me. Trump has attacked the people of California, that doesn't mean the latter are/were rebelling.

[tylertusta]

In the words of one attorney I speak with: 'When the justiciability section starts with THE Marbury quote, you are about to read a bad justiciability section.'

[Reallynotbob]

You're leaving out a whole bunch of statutory law and SCOTUS precedent there. Not worth debating since this is a toll post.

[bye]

Yaaaaaawn!!!!

[Kazinski]

One good thing about this ruling, is nobody is pretending anymore that TRO's are not appealable.

I'm glad that at least has been put to rest.

[Sarcastr0]

The Supreme Court made sure of that; your hypocrisy push is wrong in this case.

[Kazinski]

"your hypocrisy push is wrong"

I don't even know what that means, but no need to explain, I don't care.

[not guilty]

A TRO is not appealable unless it is the functional equivalent of a preliminary injunction. The Ninth Circuit has ordered briefing and scheduled a hearing for Tuesday. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca9.4e2731d4-cbd8-4803-a59f-a1d0c6023daf/gov.uscourts.ca9.4e2731d4-cbd8-4803-a59f-a1d0c6023daf.10.0_1.pdf

As with all federal civil litigation, the first order of business should be whether the Court of Appeals has jurisdiction to entertain the appeal at all. Judge Breyer has scheduled a preliminary injunction hearing for June 20, so what is the need for a premature appeal?

[tylertusta]

Getting an anti-Trump ruling from a friendly loony-bin judge NDCA is easy.

Succeeding at SCOTUS is another story. See you there.

[Sarcastr0]

Yet more ipse dixit.

Has any judge in this history of Trump's Presidencies ever made a ruling against Trump you thought was correct?

[tylertusta]

Yet more ipse dixit.

Yawn.

Has any judge in this history of Trump's Presidencies ever made a ruling against Trump you thought was correct?

Yes. Knight First Amendment Institute v. Trump.

Has any judge in the history of Trump's Presidencies ever made a ruling in favor of Trump that you thought was correct?

[Sarcastr0]

Keeping Trump off the ballot was a bad case and rightly reversed.

[tylertusta]

There, see? We aren't just reflexive partisans.

[Sarcastr0]

I still don't care for your unsupported assumption that any judges that rule against Trump are doing so out of personal animus.

Engage with their opinions, and call their opinions right or wrong. No need to delve into telepathy.

[tylertusta]

I don't care that you don't care for my implication (not an assumption). The 'anti-Trump' was not personal animus but a literal ruling against Trump as a party.

I am also well past caring whether you think my comments deserve to be supported. We tried that before and you trolled the shit out of me. When I have asked you for information in hot topics, you refused.

So, no. I'm not playing your games.

[Bob from Ohio]

"Benchslap!!"

Why so excited? Its just a decision by a district court on an issue that SCOTUS will likely decide.

Maybe it will hold up but I wouldn't bet that way.

But keep hope alive!

[tylertusta]

He's just cheerleading. Sometimes people need little wins lest they be consumed by despair.

[Stephen Lathrop]

When Trump decides to impose U.S. Marines on Massachusetts, I think the Governor ought to invite Trump to march them on foot from Boston to Concord and back. Let’s see how they do.

Make it a training exercise, with a few immigrant effigies set up on Concord Bridge, for the troops to seize.

[Z Crazy]

You either side with Laken Riley, or the killer who wanted to rape her pussy!

[Dr. Ed 2]

You do know that part of their route is now used by the Red Line, don't you?

That said, what would happen would be two things -- first, they would return with more men than they started with, and second, Maura would learn why the correct name of the Duck Pond is actually the Dunking Pond...

[Martinned]

The first thing is that Trump would have a heart attack and die from all the exercise...

[Frank Drackman]

He'll be 79 Saturday, if he had Ischemic Heart Disease he'd have had a Heart Attack already, and according to his latest Physical he has a normal PSA, the test Cancerous Joe's Physicians failed to order until he had Stage 4 Prostrate Cancer (and there's no "Stage 5")

[Kazinski]

There is one more stage past stage 4.

[Brett Bellmore]

But that stage is only of concern to embalmers.

[Frank Drackman]

Tell that to Johnny Sack(did anyone look cooler firing up a Lucky than Johnny Sack?, I probably smoked an extra 5 yrs because of “the Sopranos”, if I get the Big Casino any of you guys help a brother out with a Class Action?

[bernard11]

A class action? For getting the 10 of diamonds?

[Dr. Ed 2]

The battle for the survival of Western Civilization has begun.

Israel has taken out most of the Iranian leadership -- Iran is a young country because of the war in the 1980s and they want to return to the Iran of the 1970s. They want to be French.

Hopefully Jimmy Carter's mistake will end.

[Joe_dallas]

a person has to be an idiot to believe the jpcoa was going to stall iran's nuclear program.

a person has to idiot to believe giving iran wads of cash was going to placate iran's mullahs

[Martinned]

I guess we'll never know, because some idiot blew it all to smithereens.

[Joe_dallas]

the idiot was obama who got the jpcoa and gave iran wads of cash

The other idiots are the naive fools that thought the jpcoa would work as planned / advertised.

[Riva]

So, your idiot theory is Israel should have waited for Iran to launch its ballistic nuclear missile before attacking? Yeah, it was way too precipitous and reckless to attack now. After all Iran was days away from arming its nuclear missiles.

Israel is doing the world a great favor. We should all extend our thanks.

[Z Crazy]

Mollie Tibbets

Rachel Morin

Laken Riley

Al of them white girls who were murdered because illegals wanted to rape their pussies!

Make no mistake.

simping for illegals is rooted in anti-white animus.

I know this because the same people who excuse illegal immigration because whites are not indigeous to North America ALSO support mass migration into Europe where whites ARE indigenous, instead of saying that white Europeans get to gun down invaders en masse.

They believe in this colonizer-colonizee dynamics. They feel that whites are responsible for all the evil in the world, so they support violent criminals immigrating in and committing crimes against whites, especially sex crimes against white girls.

They cheered the Colonge Sex Attacks.

Of course, if little black boys like AJ Wise are killed by illegals, they just consider it collateral damage!

White Girls Matter!

[Reallynotbob]

I detect a fetish.

[Commenter_XY]

Yes, Commenter_XY called it on Wednesday. Last evening, many things went boom in Iran. Some very bad people are dead. No word on fissile material (which Iran should not have) release (that will probably happen), yet.

This isn't one and done.

[Martinned]

This isn't one and done.

Ain't that the truth. This Middle Eastern tribal war has been going on for millennia, and will keep going on for millennia more.

[Dr. Ed 2]

No. The 1980 Iran Iraq war killed most of the Iranians over the age of 50 today. It's a very young country, they want to party and be French.

The IDF has killed much of the existing IDF leadership, and hopefully the young people will step into the vacuum.

I forget why, but fissile material isn't the same hazard in the desert.

[Martinned]

they want to party and be French

They might have done yesterday, but nothing makes the incumbent government popular like a foreign attack.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx

[Krayt]

Twisting what people under a dictatorship will want, based on internecine western internal headbutting.

[Martinned]

To the extent that such a thing can be assessed, previous attacks against Iran have also led to an increase in approval for the regime. Nobody likes being attacked.

[Frank Drackman]

Osama Bin Laden Jr can take over and I don't give a (Redacted), wasn't that worried about their Nuke program as they'd probably blow themselves up first, but probably better to return them to a pre-industrial age.

[Don Nico]

That could be, but it is irrelevant to the matter of an Iranian nuclear weapon.
Iran's direct threat's to Israel and the US during the past week were unwise as was its angry response to the IAEA declaring their being in violation of their NPT obligations. Iran also threatened to make a breakout to build nuclear weapons.
It had threatened to attack US bases in the region.
Iran also threatened to bomb Israel's reactors. Israel would likely consider that to be a large scale radiological attack.

[Martinned]

Yes, Iran is run by some very bad hombres. But you don't get to bomb a country for that.

[Commenter_XY]

Yeah, you actually do, eurotrash.

[CountmontyC]

You do if those bad hombres are threatening to nuke you. Especially if those bad hombres have financially supported terrorist groups such as Hamas who not too long ago killed over 1200 of your citizens.

[Don Nico]

No you bomb a country for calling for your extermination and proceeding toward that goal and after it had its goons murder your citizens

[Riva]

It is a country run by a fanatically religious terrorist death cult that has promised to destroy Israel and the US. And a terrorist death cult that is also frantically pursuing nuclear weapons. You think it's good policy to entrust these "bad hombres" with nuclear missiles when the means to prevent this exists?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Even if a bombed reactor didn't leak, and it might not leak badly, it's still an important part of the infrastructure. Electricity is needed for water & sewer if nothing else.

[Don Nico]

Any leak of an operating reactor would be a radiological disaster. That is the WMD threat. Loss of electricity is only an inconvenience

[Dr. Ed 2]

Well, the IDF bombed one of Iran's, let's see how badly that one leaks. But I still don't think it will be as bad as a ground-burst nuke.
There is neither the irradiation of soil being sucked in nor the great thermal updraft.

it's not good, but I don't think quite as bad.

[Don Nico]

Geez,
Ed is actually correct about something.
Bombing a reactor is not as bad as the ground burst of a nuclear weapon.

[Bob from Ohio]

"Middle Eastern tribal war has been going on for millennia, and will keep going on for millennia more."

LOL

Like Europe has not had "tribal war [which] has been going on for millennia".

There is a tribal war going on right now in Ukraine in fact. So take the beam out of your own eye.

[hobie]

Netanyahu took one look at TACO Trump and his deal making with Iran and said, 'Fuck that"

[Don Nico]

You are so shallow.
Trump to a very large risk, giving Iran five months to make a deal while Iran was only several weeks away from having at least one deliverable nuclear weapon. Iran played him and within the last week issued its own nuclear threats.
Netanyahu could not afford to take much larger risk any longer.

[CountmontyC]

And people like Hobie would have attacked President Trump for not giving Iran a chance to negotiate a nuclear deal if he hadn't made an offer. I would also bet that elsewhere hobie will be denouncing Israel for daring to attack Iran.

[hobie]

I'm all for the attack. Can't let Iran get nukes. Also, it's nice to see Israeli military can execute precise targets on military assets without razing whole cities and starving everyone...because that would be genocide

[Dr. Ed 2]

Trump gave Iran 60 days -- yesterday was Day 61...

Israel wanted to attack on Monday but waited at Trump's request.

[grb]

Don Nico : "You are so shallow."

You want shallow? How about cheering a military strike with zero consideration of whether it did (or could) achieve any objective? Here's a formulation from 12-15yrs ago:

"Any bombing attack on Iran will delay its nuclear weapons program 18-24 months at best and probably ensure the regime's development of an atomic weapon."

Since then, that prediction has only changed in that Iran has prepared for this attack. There's a high probability the Israeli action will have zero impact on Iran's quickest timeline to a Bomb. Why would anyone assume otherwise? Because the Israelis claim they've killed some scientists? Because they've struck at sites designed to be impervious to air strikes? Even an eighteen month delay towards a now more certain outcome seems optimistic to me.

That said, I admit it's not the whole story. There may have no achievable military objective in the strikes, but these days the only real strategic goal of the IDF is saving Netanyahu's political skin. Who knows? Maybe bombing Iran helps with that.

[Commenter_XY]

Parchin....is no more.
Fordow....is no more.
Bushear....is no more.
Natanz....is no more.
Arak....is no more.
Isfahan....is no more.

Nah, no real impact to Iran's nuke program. 😉

This was just day one. There are many more days to come. More Iranian generals will die, and more Iranian infrastructure will be destroyed. Iran will not be the same when Israel is done.

[Riva]

Don't you have a protest to get to, you abysmal idiot? Don't forget your mask and the foreign flag of your choosing.

[Kazinski]

What has got to even more concerning than the actual bombs is the level of intelligence and the obvious deep penetration into Iran's government and security apparatus.

They can recover from the damage to infrastructure, the damage to their confidence that they can do anything without Israel knowing it is permanent.

[Randal]

He's only gassing the bad Jews! Didn't you see that one guy's tattoos?

-- 2027 Brett

[Brett Bellmore]

Yeah, right. Why don't you imagine me building a cobalt bomb and detonating it in an orphanage, while you're at it? About as likely.

[John 4]

Brett has known ties to rebellious militias, who are known pro-bombing terrorists, and should himself be deported.

[Brett Bellmore]

No, I have some vague ties (Knew some members, never myself joined.) to a militia group that gave McVeigh the cold shoulder. Not that not actually having any connection to McVeigh did them a bit of good in the hysteria following the OK bombing.

PROJECT MEGIDDO: an FBI
strategic assessment of the potential for domestic terrorism in the
United States

"However, the majority of militia groups are non-violent and only a small segment of the militias actually commit acts of violence to advance their political goals and beliefs. A number of militia leaders, such as Lynn Van Huizen of the Michigan Militia Corps - Wolverines, have gone to some effort to actively rid their ranks of radical members who are inclined to carry out acts of violence and/or terrorism."

[Magister]

Protests that are mostly peaceful never get the same consideration that Brett wants others to give to militia.

[Brett Bellmore]

That's because all the militia protests I attended were entirely peaceful. Not "mostly". Mind, you'd be pretty peaceful, too, if you could see the police watching you through rifle scopes...

[Magister]

"Mostly peaceful" applied to George Floyd protests overall; few of those protests were not entirely peaceful. Nor is it the case that only people like you are watched by police through rifle scopes; the militarization of police is a huge problem across the political spectrum.

(Also of note that "vague ties" has evolved to "all the militia protests I attended".)

[Michael P]

Is Magister projecting a requirement from the left that all protest attendees be dedicated members of Antifa or International ANSWER or whatever onto militia protests?

[Magister]

No. Another simple answer to stupid questions. I cannot imagine how you made that leap of illogic.

[Michael P]

You asserted that one of Brett's statements "evolved" into a different one. They're not inherently related by the standard rules of English or American society. Therefore you imputed the association based on ... what? Experience with leftist protests? Merely a fervid imagination?

[bernard11]

Brett began by saying he had only a "vague connection" to militias. But now it turns out he attended several of their demonstrations.

Maybe more than a vague connection.

[Magister]

As bernard11 notes, both statements were about Brett's connection to militia; his connection evolved (developed gradually) from vague ties to enough attendance to make assertions about militia protests. (Brett included a reference to an evaluation from 2000, when militias were in decline from their mid-1990s peak; they had a resurgence after the election of Obama, continuing with their support of Trump.)

And of course Michael P's "requirement of the left" is absurd nonsense, and nothing similar about militias was in any way asserted in my comments.

[Randal]

The point, Brett, is that it's easy to make pretty much anyone sound like a nefarious threat to the nation, depending on who counts as insiders vs. outsiders at any given time, as you like to put it. You could very easily find yourself in CECOT in the right political climate if America permanently adopts Trump's innuendo-based sentencing guidelines.

[Randal]

Why don't you imagine me building a cobalt bomb and detonating it in an orphanage, while you're at it?

No you're confusing yourself with Kaz. You're just a keyboard warrior, nobody thinks you'd ever actually perform an act of any kind.

[Kazinski]

I guess I haunt Randal in his sleep.

I'm ok with that.

[hobie]

It's just the American Jews who didn't vote for Trump. It's not antisemitic terrorism to denigrate them Jews

[Martinned]

Since this question already came up yesterday, I thought I'd highlight the answer Marko Milanovic has just given. He's not one of those weirdoes who sometimes write on Opinio Juris. He's a serious professor of international law, the kind of person who may well end up on the ICJ someday.

This morning, Israel launched a major military operation against Iran targeting its nuclear programme, including facilities, individual scientists and military leadership. In this post, I will provide a quick, preliminary analysis of the legality of Israel’s use of force against Iran as a matter of the jus ad bellum. As I will explain, Israel’s use of force against Iran is, on the facts as we know them, almost certainly illegal.

The only justification that Israel can provide for its use of force is self-defence under Article 51 of the Charter – using force to repel an armed attack, subject to the criteria of necessity and proportionality. The first point to clarify here is that the nature and stated goals of Israel’s use of force – damaging Iran’s nuclear programme and preventing it from developing a nuclear weapon that could be used against Israel – are explicitly about deflecting a future armed attack by Iran against Israel, i.e. an attack that is yet to occur. In other words, this is not a situation in which Israel is allegedly responding to an Iranian attack occurring now, whether directly or through proxies such as the Houthis. Prior uses of force between these two states can be legally and factually relevant as context, but the issue here is again squarely about stopping a future nuclear attack by Iran. Assessing the legality Israel’s use of force against Iran thus depends on the legal conception of self-defense being applied and on the facts to which the legal rules can be applied.

https://www.ejiltalk.org/is-israels-use-of-force-against-iran-justified-by-self-defence/

[Martinned]

And, for the record:

There are also in bello issues to be discussed. One point that I found particularly problematic is the apparent direction of attacks specifically against Iranian scientists working for the nuclear programme. If such scientists are members of Iran’s armed forces, they are combatants and can lawfully be targeted as a matter of IHL. But scientists who are civilians – and most probably are – cannot (as persons) lawfully be made the object of an attack. Simply working on a weapons programme as a researcher does not entail direct participation in hostilities that could remove civilian immunity from an attack. To give an analogy, the hundreds of civilian scientists or engineers who worked on the Manhattan Project would not (in today’s terms) be qualified as combatants or civilians taking a direct part in hostilities. The facilities in which they worked would qualify as military objectives (as would a munitions factory, for instance). But the scientists themselves as persons would not.

[Commenter_XY]

Eurotrash: They're dead, and riding the one-way paradise train to someplace warm = Iranian scientists

[Martinned]

Keep going like that and the entire Middle East might end up glowing in the dark. Lord knows they all hate each other beyond the level of rationality that normally stops countries from starting a nuclear war. Which is, of course, why the world tried to stop countries like Israel and Iran from getting nuclear weapons in the first place...

[Commenter_XY]

Eurotrash, this is not difficult. For decades, Iranians Islamofascist leadership has been screaming Death to America, Death to Israel. I believe them when they say that. And is rapidly acquiring the means to effectuate that outcome. This is in addition to their malignant actions throughout the ME (for decades). Iran has already acted directly against Israel via hamas and hezball-less, in addition to direct attacks. They're just in a hot phase of a many year, on-going war.

The alternative is a nuclear armed Iran. As an American, that is not acceptable to me; Iran can't have nukes b/c they'll soon be used on America (we're the Great Satan in all of this).

Nobody in that region wants a nuclear armed Iran.

PS: Europe isn't immune to this.

[Martinned]

Nobody in that region wants a nuclear armed Iran.

Nobody in that region wants a nuclear armed Israel either, yet here we are.

(If you're wondering why, look in the mirror. Your persona here is exactly the sort of person who would push the button to nuke his neighbour even if he knew for certain that he'd die himself as well. Irrational hatred.)

[Krayt]

That a democracy has nukes does not justify dictatorships acquiring them. Only if one deliberately ignores that difference.

The rhetorical point is bizarre.

[Martinned]

No. Nothing justifies anyone acquiring them, legally.

Morally, there's only Hobbes:

And from this diffidence of one another, there is no way for any man to secure himselfe, so reasonable, as Anticipation; that is, by force, or wiles, to master the persons of all men he can, so long, till he see no other power great enough to endanger him: And this is no more than his own conservation requireth, and is generally allowed. Also because there be some, that taking pleasure in contemplating their own power in the acts of conquest, which they pursue farther than their security requires; if others, that otherwise would be glad to be at ease within modest bounds, should not by invasion increase their power, they would not be able, long time, by standing only on their defence, to subsist. And by consequence, such augmentation of dominion over men, being necessary to a mans conservation, it ought to be allowed him.

Againe, men have no pleasure, (but on the contrary a great deale of griefe) in keeping company, where there is no power able to over-awe them all. For every man looketh that his companion should value him, at the same rate he sets upon himselfe: And upon all signes of contempt, or undervaluing, naturally endeavours, as far as he dares (which amongst them that have no common power, to keep them in quiet, is far enough to make them destroy each other,) to extort a greater value from his contemners, by dommage; and from others, by the example.

So that in the nature of man, we find three principall causes of quarrel. First, Competition; Secondly, Diffidence; Thirdly, Glory.

The first, maketh men invade for Gain; the second, for Safety; and the third, for Reputation. The first use Violence, to make themselves Masters of other mens persons, wives, children, and cattell; the second, to defend them; the third, for trifles, as a word, a smile, a different opinion, and any other signe of undervalue, either direct in their Persons, or by reflexion in their Kindred, their Friends, their Nation, their Profession, or their Name.

Hereby it is manifest, that during the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man. For WARRE, consisteth not in Battell onely, or the act of fighting; but in a tract of time, wherein the Will to contend by Battell is sufficiently known: and therefore the notion of Time, is to be considered in the nature of Warre; as it is in the nature of Weather. For as the nature of Foule weather, lyeth not in a showre or two of rain; but in an inclination thereto of many dayes together: So the nature of War, consisteth not in actuall fighting; but in the known disposition thereto, during all the time there is no assurance to the contrary. All other time is PEACE.

Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of Warre, where every man is Enemy to every man; the same is consequent to the time, wherein men live without other security, than what their own strength, and their own invention shall furnish them withall. In such condition, there is no place for Industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain; and consequently no Culture of the Earth; no Navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by Sea; no commodious Building; no Instruments of moving, and removing such things as require much force; no Knowledge of the face of the Earth; no account of Time; no Arts; no Letters; no Society; and which is worst of all, continuall feare, and danger of violent death; And the life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short.

[William of Brooklyn]

Martinned - Hobbes was a realist of the first order. The invocation of "international law" in such circumstances, as ever, ignores the reality of human nature and the dynamics of power. Nations that are powerful (like the US, China, Russia, Israel, etc.) *submit* to notions of international law if -- and only if -- they find it in their interest to do so in any given circumstance. Now if you or I tried to thwart actual, real laws within our respective States or nations, we would quickly come to the realization that there really is a sovereign, and in the interest of order, that sovereign really will use whatever power is necessary to enforce those laws. Since there is no world sovereign, and no power of enforcement among nations other than war, the whole idea of "international law" is -- at best -- a nice bedtime story for powerful nations to feel morally superior, and only has teeth for small, relatively powerless countries and their nationals who can be hauled before some self-appointed tribunal in Europe, and only then when the powerful nations find it in their interest to actually go to the trouble to detain someone. In short, even enforcement is honored more in the breach, even for those small fries. So, when some functionary -- seeing war unfolding as it has in the last day -- comments on how developments are "very concerning," the realists in every capital in the world just roll their eyes. Discussions of legal constraints on the exercise of real power in wartime are as meaningful as discussions about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and just as captivating.

[Krayt]

No. Nothing justifies anyone acquiring them, legally.

I agree, but, like with gun control, only the good guys would obey the law. Until it was too late. Are you willing to roll those dice?

[Frank Drackman]

"Nobody" is pretty general, a lot of Israelis are happy with a Nuke-ular armed Israel, its the big reason there's an Israel to be Nuke-ular armed in the first place. What happened to DemoKKKrat's supporting Israel? Used to have Henry "Scoop" Jackson, Abe Ribicoff, now you've got Fetterman when his remaining Brain Cells are firing.

Frank

[Commenter_XY]

Live free or die, eurotrash. Given your country's history, this thought would never occur to you. You'd rather be speaking German.

Iran with nukes makes it existential. Europe is a lot closer to Iran that America. Maybe you should take up Farsi.

[Martinned]

Europe is also a lot closer to Russia, which has had nukes since the 1950s. Having nukes is not the same thing as attacking, and you don't get to pre-emptively attack people because they might be developing nukes.

[CountmontyC]

Russia wasn't lead by a death cult that would gladly have died from nuclear retaliation if it took out Europe in the bargain. Furthermore Europe was protected from the USSR by the USA during that time so wasn't outnumbered a 100 to 1 by people wishing to obliterate it from existence. Europe's situation was vastly different from what Israel faced and still faces.

[Frank Drackman]

You do, actually. Or you can nuke them because they sneak attacked one of your Navy bases a few years earlier. That's what being a "Sovereign" Nation means.

[Krayt]

They developed nukes to save their corrupt gravy trains from loss to the West. Rhetoric is one thing, but it was transparently obvious to planners there was no way in hell they could keep up conventional weapon prodction rates of the free West, to say nothing of the US with a bee in its bonnet.

Nobody sought to invade (well, Patton did) but they'd get slapped around if the West actually did.

All the rest is dictator hot air and bluster. Dictatorships are kleptocracies, and picking a real fight with the West, guaranteed to end them, is not part of their business model.

[Don Nico]

Israel's building nuclear weapons was clandestine but not illegal. It was never a signatory to the NPT. You could say the same about India.
In contrast Iran signed the NPT in 1970 and still has NPT obligations that it has violated.

[Martinned]

I agree. And the remedy for that isn't dropping bombs on them.

[Brett Bellmore]

Dropping bombs on them isn't a remedy for them violating the NPT. It's a remedy for them doing so while threatening Israel's very existence.

Israel is not required to just shrug off proxy and direct attacks on themselves while passively waiting for Iran to get nuclear bombs to use on them.

[Frank Drackman]

it's exactly the "remedy". Getting accepted to Terror-Anne Univerity's Nuke-ular Engineering program just got alot easier.

[Krayt]

Dropping bombs is a remedy for stopping yet another dictatorship from getting them. This is a sufficient reason.

[Kazinski]

We don't know if its a remedy yet, do we?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Israel has had nukes for 60 years and the Arabs can live with that.
What they can't live with is Persians with nukes. Particularly crazy Persians....

[David Nieporent]

Lord knows they all hate each other beyond the level of rationality that normally stops countries from starting a nuclear war.

And yet, India-Pakistan haven't started a nuclear war.

[bye]

"If a scientist engages in activities directly supporting the war effort, they may lose their protected status and become a legitimate target. For instance, a scientist working at a munitions factory could be considered a legitimate target while at work."

[Krayt]

Decades ago, Israel popped the guy who was building a giant long-range gun in Iraq that could reach Israel.

He was a guy who really, really wanted to make such a thing as prelude to orbital cannons, and Iraq was the only government that would fund it. There'a a whole Frontline about him.

The irony for that asinine claim the scientists are not valid targets is the old adage, by scientists and engineers, that "The reason you angry assholes have weapons beyond clubs is because men like us keep inventing them."

[Krayt]

This assumes humans ... invented the club.

[Frank Drackman]

Used to have “the Club” when I was in Med Screw-el, someone broke into my car and stole it! It was worth more than my car

[bernard11]

Was that the thing that Limbaugh used to tout?

Should have been your first clue.

[Don Nico]

Point well made.

[Michael P]

No, it assumes that humans invented the weapons that are more sophisticated than the club.

[Bunny495]

Milina ago Archimedes, the famous Greek mathematician, physicist, and engineer, was killed during the Siege of Syracuse in 212 BC

[Brett Bellmore]

Iran is in a state of war with Israel, and has been for some time. This was an ordinary military action.

[Martinned]

That is not how "state of war" works.

https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2064&context=jil

https://www.icrc.org/sites/default/files/document_new/file_list/armed_conflict_defined_in_ihl.pdf

[Commenter_XY]

Pfffft. Warfare has evolved beyond definitions on a piece of paper. Israel and Iran have been fighting a covert war for at least two decades. This is just a hot phase. Early indications are Israel scored a huge hit on military leadership and nuke scientists, and blunted missile launches from inside Iran.

Given the nature of Iran's Islamofascist leadership, and what they say about America, it is very easy to pick a side here. The mullahs would do well to consider how the US will respond to an attack on it's interests (or territory) from a POTUS Trump (who has now explicitly warned Iran).

I am glad that sicko Khamenei saw for himself his own failures, before he dies.

[Martinned]

The whole point of a "covert war" is that it is not, as such, a war. It's only metaphorically a war. (Just like a cold war isn't a war.)

[Brett Bellmore]

It's kind of late to say that it's not really a war, as such, when missiles and bombers have been flying for months. Silly, even.

[Martinned]

Have they? That's news to me. As far as I know the last time Iran fired anything at Israel was in October.

[Brett Bellmore]

Oh, excuse me, was that not months ago? Is there some rule that "being at war" expires if you don't launch a direct attack every 29 days?

[Armchair]

a "covert" war doesn't involve ballistic missiles being fired.

[Martinned]

Indeed. You're getting it!

[Armchair]

Iran launched those ballistic missiles at Israel. Months ago.

[Don Nico]

The war was hardly covert. Iran just used its proxies and it also launched its on direct attacks on Israel because it was ordered by Allah to destroy the Jewish state. Sounds like a pretty warm war to me.

[Martinned]

Yes, and Israel has been at war with those proxies. The whole point of a proxy is that it is not the same thing as the principal themselves being at war.

[Joe_dallas]

A distinction that is not relavent

[Brett Bellmore]

The whole point of proxies is hoping that the other guy will mistake the proxies for the principals, or at least pretend to, and thus allow you to wage war without the other guy in response waging war on you. That is, it's meant to obscure the truth, which is that the principals themselves actually ARE at war.

Nobody is the least bit fooled by Iran's use of proxies, and the fact that they directly attacked Israel last year, and Israel has directly responded, means we are well past a proxy war at this point.

[Drewski]

Your first link isn't really relevant and your second disagrees with you, suggesting that if two states consider themselves at war then they are in fact engaged in armed conflict, even if they aren't actually fighting at the moment.

[Martinned]

As the first one explains, "war" as a concept has been replaced by "armed conflict", which is a concept that depends on the factual situation on the ground, and certainly not simply on the assumptions of states in question (as the second source explains).

[TwelveInchPianist]

They're not at war because there's no longer any such thing as a war? Good luck with that.

[Bob from Ohio]

""war" as a concept has been replaced by "armed conflict""

Amazing. We can eliminate war by using different words! Sums up the ludicrous thing that is "international law".

[Joe_dallas]

nice distortion of what is not relavent

[Moderation4ever]

While everything here is true the fact is that in war everybody can be a combatant. There are stories that in WWII the Allied Forces targeted Werner Heisenberg, the German physicist. Heisenberg survived the war but might not if the Allied Forces felt he was closer to the bomb than he actually was. I am also sure that the Germans would have taken out key US scientist if given the chance.

[Frank Drackman]

Heisenberg survived the war? are you Certain about that?

[Moderation4ever]

Werner Heisenberg did survive the war. There is evidence that he was targeted, but there is no real evidence that an actual attempt was made on his life. From my reading it seem that Heisenberg role in the bomb development was unclear. Maybe he did not have the resources needed, maybe he was moving too slow, and maybe he was dragging his feet deliberately. No one really knows for sure and there will always be speculation. But it seems he was targeted and likely would have been killed if Germany were really close to having the bomb.

[Frank Drackman]

Doesn't sound that certain to me, but it's Heisenberg, he could never make up his mind.

[Moderation4ever]

good one

[Bunny495]

You win the internet today.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

One thing's as true as ever: This never would have happened on Donald Trump's watch...

[Frank Drackman]

Israel bombing Ear-Ron? It's exactly what I expected to happen on Donald Trump's watch.

[Martinned]

Obviously the Iranian leadership simply hasn't read The Art of the Deal...

I gave Iran chance after chance to make a deal. I told them, in the strongest of words, to “just do it,” but no matter how hard they tried, no matter how close they got, they just couldn’t get it done. I told them it would be much worse than anything they know, anticipated, or were told, that the United States makes the best and most lethal military equipment anywhere in the World, BY FAR, and that Israel has a lot of it, with much more to come - And they know how to use it. Certain Iranian hardliner’s spoke bravely, but they didn’t know what was about to happen. They are all DEAD now, and it will only get worse! There has already been great death and destruction, but there is still time to make this slaughter, with the next already planned attacks being even more brutal, come to an end. Iran must make a deal, before there is nothing left, and save what was once known as the Iranian Empire. No more death, no more destruction, JUST DO IT, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. God Bless You All!

[Joe_dallas]

Obviously Iran ignored the jpcoa

[Martinned]

I wonder if that might have something to do with Trump blowing it up.

[Joe_dallas]

the JPCOA was always a joke - you are extremely naive to believe otherwise.

[David Nieporent]

Yet another subject they teach in bookkeeping school!

[Joe_dallas]

Another non substantive comment from Dthe unimportent

The JPCOA was always a joke

[ducksalad]

Two mutually exclusive options, JD.

1. The JPCOA is a joke that didn't do anything. In which case it's not relevant whether anyone followed it.

2.The JPCOA was an important substantive agreement, in which case it's bad that Iran ignored it as a result of Trump cancelling it.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

[Mr. Bumble]

"You're trying to have your cake and eat it too."
That seems to be what Iran was doing.

[Heedless]

With due respect to both you and the professor, history did not start five seconds ago.

Israel and Iran have been in an undeclared state of war since Oct. 7, with Iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis) attacking Israel continuously, and with Iran itself launching drone and missile attacks on Israel proper when Israel was too successful in defending itself against Hezbollah. This was an escalation in existing hostilities, not a new conflict that needs legal justification.

By the Professor's standard, D-Day was an illegal use of force, because Germany was in retreat and so it was no longer self defense. One suspects that is rather the point — declare all use of force by western (colonial-imperialist-heteronormative-white-supremacist) powers, particularly Israel, illegitimate so as to discourage them from defending themselves.

[Martinned]

With due respect to both you and the professor, history did not start five seconds ago.

Ain't that the truth. But that doesn't mean anything that ever happens can be used as a reason for explaining that there's still a war today.

Israel and Iran have been in an undeclared state of war since Oct. 7, with Iranian proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis) attacking Israel continuously

Note your use of the word "proxies" there. The whole point of that word is to describe a situation where the principal itself is careful to avoid going to war.

Iran itself launching drone and missile attacks on Israel proper

Yes, Iran and Israel have shot at each other before. There is no continuous armed conflict between Israel and Iran.

By the Professor's standard, D-Day was an illegal use of force, because Germany was in retreat and so it was no longer self defense.

You're confusing ius ad bellum and ius in bello, I think. At the time of D-Day the Western allies and the Germans were already shooting at each other in Italy and in the skies on a daily basis.

One suspects that is rather the point — declare all use of force by western (colonial-imperialist-heteronormative-white-supremacist) powers, particularly Israel, illegitimate so as to discourage them from defending themselves.

If Israel was defending itself nobody would have a problem, as the blog post explains. Art. 51 of the UN charter explicitly makes provision for self-defence, and arguably self-defence is such a natural right that it is prior to any written law. But Israel is not engaging in self-defence, because it is not being attacked by Iran, nor is an Iranian attack imminent.

[Don Nico]

"nor is an Iranian attack imminent."
Sorry, the Supreme Leader and his lackeys announced that intention only days ago.

[Heedless]

Proxies fighting other proxies is carefully avoiding conflict between the principals. When the one set proxies attack the other principal directly, that's just a state of war. When the principals have exchanged fire as part of those ongoing hostilities, that simply confirms it.

If Israel funded a bunch of Iranian Kurds to rape, murder, and kidnap Iranian civilians, then spent two years paying Afghan warlords to fire rockets into Iran and fired missiles and drones directly when Iran defeated one of those warlords, we would all understand that Israel was waging war against Iran. Don't lose sight of reality just because Israel is the one being attacked.

I'm not confusing ius ad bellum and ius in bello. You are. Israel is in a state of active hostilities with Iran, and has been since Oct. 7. That makes this ius in bello, exactly like D-Day.

[Bob from Ohio]

"serious professor of international law"

Nobody cares. Is the international law police going to arrest Israel?

[Michael P]

This is the first movie I have looked forward to in at least a decade. I hope Mel Brooks lasts long enough to see it in theaters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsK-KPi_w3w

May the Schwartz(tm) be with you!

[Martinned]

Small world, Ilya Somin has written about the Trump travel ban on my other favourite legal blog, the Verfassungsblog: https://verfassungsblog.de/nondelegation-travel-ban/

Despite the enormous harm likely to be caused by the travel ban, many assume there is no effective way to challenge it in court. The Supreme Court’s badly flawed ruling in Trump v. Hawaii (2018) – addressing Trump’s first-term “Muslim ban” – probably precludes challenges based on discriminatory intent. Other factors may block that sort of challenge, as well. Nonetheless, there is an alternative path to striking down the new travel ban: the nondelegation doctrine. That path remains open because Trump v. Hawaii did not consider nondelegation issues; indeed, the word “nondelegation” is not even mentioned in any of the five majority, concurring, and dissenting opinions in that ruling. So, while it may not be easy to mount a successful legal challenge to the ban, the combination of its enormous scope and the weaknesses of its ostensible rationales could open the door to a successful nondelegation claim.

[apedad]

Sprechen Sie deutsche?

Oder lesen Sie nur die englischen Artikeln?

[Martinned]

Mein Geburtsort ist etwa 15 Minuten von der Deutsche Grenze entfernt. Deutsch lesen (und zuhören) geht relativ problemlos.

[Frank Drackman]

Leck mich

[Frank Drackman]

Your German is awful, you would say "ungefahr" instead of "etwa", and "liegt" instead of "ist", can't wait until you try to use "Schwul" in a conversation

[Joe_dallas]

there was no harm caused by the travel ban

[Kazinski]

I find it implausible that the Supreme Court would find a non-delegation problem with Congress giving the President discretion in a foreign relations context. Congress could possibly remove all discretion in certain contexts, but if they do allow discretion then the Supreme Court is not going to narrow it in an area where the President's inherent powers in foreign relations mix with Congressional authority in naturalization and foreign commerce.

Same with tariffs.

[not guilty]

The Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting ended yesterday, with delegates approving a hatemongering resolution regarding the availability of birth control and calling for judicial decisions protecting marriage equality to be overruled.

This from a denomination that was born of support for human chattel slavery and whose current incarnation is no avatar of sexual morality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_cases_in_Southern_Baptist_churches Some excerpts from the resolution:

WHEREAS, God made every person in his image as either male or female in accord with his good design for humanity, equal in worth but different by design, and this difference is not accidental or arbitrary (Genesis 1:27);

WHEREAS, God has ordained the family as the foundational institution of human society, prior to the state, with a divine mandate to “be fruitful and multiply” (Genesis 1:28), and entrusted parents with the primary responsibility of raising, educating, and discipling their children (Deuteronomy 6:6-7[*]; Ephesians 6:4);

WHEREAS, Our culture is increasingly rejecting and distorting these truths by redefining marriage, pursuing willful childlessness which contributes to a declining fertility rate, ignoring and suppressing the biological differences between male and female, encouraging gender confusion, undermining parental rights, and denying the value and dignity of children; and

WHEREAS, Commercial surrogacy often treats children as products and women as a means to an end, and may entail the destruction of embryonic life, violating the dignity of human life and distorting God’s design for procreation within marriage; and

WHEREAS, Christians are called to grieve with and support couples who struggle with infertility and to uphold moral and compassionate paths to parenthood that protect human dignity; and

WHEREAS, The normalization of transgender ideology—especially the participation of biological males and females in opposite gender sports and the medical transition of minors—represents a rebellion against God’s design for male and female, inflicts unjust harm on children, men, and women, employs coercive language control, and undermines fairness, safety, and truth;

WHEREAS, Legal rulings like Obergefell v. Hodges and policies that deny the biological reality of male and female are legal fictions, undermine the truth of God’s design, and lead to social confusion and injustice; and

WHEREAS, Planned Parenthood remains a leading provider of abortion, undermines parental rights, and promotes harmful ideas about sex and the family, all while receiving taxpayer funds; now, therefore, be it

RESOLVED, That we affirm the duty of lawmakers to pass laws that reflect the truth of creation and natural law—about marriage, sex, human life, and family—and to oppose any law that denies or undermines what God has made plain through nature and Scripture; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we call for the overturning of laws and court rulings, including Obergefell v. Hodges, that defy God’s design for marriage and family; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we call for laws that affirm marriage between one man and one woman, recognize the biological reality of male and female, protect children’s innocence against sexual predation, affirm and strengthen parental rights in education and healthcare, incentivize family formation in life-affirming ways, and ensure safety and fairness in athletic competition; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we oppose any law or policy that compels people to speak falsehoods about sex and gender, and we defend the right of every person to speak the truth without fear or coercion; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we call on Southern Baptists to love all their neighbors in accordance with their God-given dignity as image bearers and to advocate for the government to restrain actions inconsistent with the dignity and value of every human being, including commercial surrogacy; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we call on Christians to celebrate and embrace marriage and childbearing—seeing children as blessings rather than burdens (Psalm 127:3-5)—and the privilege of raising the next generation; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we call for renewed moral clarity in public discourse regarding the crisis of declining fertility and for policies that support the bearing and raising of children within intact, married families; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we encourage and extend compassion to individuals who find themselves in situations of familial loss or breakdown and are seeking to honor the Lord in their parenting; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we call for the complete and permanent defunding of Planned Parenthood and for public funds to be directed to life-affirming healthcare providers; and be it further

RESOLVED, That we urge all Southern Baptists to advocate in the public square for laws and policies that reflect the moral order revealed in Scripture and nature, and to bear witness to the gospel of Jesus Christ, which alone restores broken lives, redeems sin, and brings eternal hope;

_________________________
* Deuteronomy 6:6-7 (RSV) states:

And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart; and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.

The resolution curiously omits any reference to Deuteronomy 21:18-21, which commands:

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son, who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they chastise him, will not give heed to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, 'This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.' Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall purge the evil from your midst; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/on-restoring-moral-clarity-through-gods-designfor-gender-marriage-and-the-family/

A few random observations. In whose image did God create lesbians, gays and transgender folks?

Why is there no acknowledgement of Genesis 2:7, "then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." (RSV) No breath, ergo, no "living being."

Neither government recognition of marriage nor procreation is the sine qua non of the other. Men and women were procreating long before any government was organized to sanction marriages. Conception (sometimes) occurs as the product of the sexual union of a fertile woman and a virile male. The parents may be married to one another, unmarried to anyone, or one or both may be married, but not to the other parent. Gametes don't ask about their progenitors' marital status before combining to form zygotes.

Lesbians and gays were coupling with others of their own sex for centuries before the United States were formed. They had (and still have) no need to ask permission of the government. If Obergefell v. Hodges, is overruled, lesbians and gays will continue to couple with their own kind. Do SBC delegates prefer unmarried buttsex to married buttsex? That is simply bizarre.

An embryo or fetus which is never conceived will never be aborted -- that is a metaphysical impossibility. By advocating and distributing contraceptives, Planned Parenthood has prevented likely millions upon millions of abortions. The SBC delegates' agenda here is manifestly not preventing abortions.

This hateful resolution has an unseemly focus on same sex coupling, abortion/birth control, and government meddling with other people's sexual and reproductive choices -- all topics as to which Holy Scripture attributes not one word to Jesus. OTOH, the resolution says nothing at all about divorced persons' remarrying -- a practice that Jesus expressly prohibited. (Matthew 5:31-32; Mark 10:11-12.)

The Apostle Peter admonished Christians in the First Century C.E., "But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters." I Peter 4:15 (KJV) [emphasis added.] Think about it -- the busybodies there are listed alongside some really unsavory company.

I can hardly improve on the Mahatma Gandhi's comment: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

[Mr. Bumble]

....all of which is dispositive of?

[bye]

not guilty, YOU ARE AN UNINFORMED FOOL

Gandhi said at another time , about Fr Damien of Molokai
""The political and journalistic world can boast of very few heroes who compare with Father Damien of Molokai. The Catholic Church, on the contrary, counts by the thousands those who after the example of Fr. Damien have devoted themselves to the victims of leprosy. It is worthwhile to look for the sources of such heroism.""

Father Damien
Mahatma Gandhi said that Father Damien's work had inspired his social campaigns in India, leading to the independence of his people and the securing of aid for needy Indians.

You strike me as a hateful ignorant fool

[not guilty]

And I should care about your opinion why?

[Commenter_XY]

NG, the SBC is pretty active in TN, no? Close to home? Total membership of SBC is 13MM, with maybe 4MM attending regularly (the true believers?). Ok, the SBC put out a public declaration into the public square. It is one Christian sect. A rather small one, at that.

They believe what they believe. Who am I to tell them what to believe? What they actually do is another matter (meaning, they do not use physical violence to advance their ideology and then impose their beliefs upon others against their will). This (SBC non-violent behavior in issuing a public proclamation) is a very different behavior than what we see with anti-Israel and anti-American rioters on Ivy league campuses and the streets of LAX.

[not guilty]

The Southern Baptist Convention is headquartered in Nashville. It is the largest Protestant denomination.

My problem is less with what they believe than with calling their political hatemongering Christianity.

FWIW, Jesus did not get along with the religious leadership of his day, and he knew the distinction between what is God's and what is Caesar's. I wish that the Baptists would discover a deity whom they don't regard as such a weenie that he needs help from Caesar.

[Commenter_XY]

Christians can argue that, I'll sit that one out 😉 = My problem is less with what they believe than with calling their political hatemongering Christianity.

[Joe_dallas]

bye 3 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
not guilty, YOU ARE AN UNINFORMED FOOL

Bye - he is an informed fool

[Michael P]

Selectively informed, at best.

[bernard11]

What does Father Damien have to do with the SBC?

[hobie]

Asking for a friend: Is this antiwoman terrorism or antigay terrorism? Or can it be both? But if a lot of the gays are Jewish (and I know many who are), wouldn't that also make it antisemitic terrorism?

[Joe_dallas]

You are describing the muslim religion

[hobie]

Why need foreign terrorists to subjugate our minorities when we have MAGA to do it equally. But you don't see that, do you?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Debt peonage was worse than chattel slavery -- the people who experienced both said so, and their interviews are in the LOC.

[Swede425]

If you're a hate-filled meanie, and somebody points out that you're a hate-filled meanie, what should you make of this?
I mean, really, what happens?
Liberals don't like you?
Hollywood hates you and mocks you?
The MSM fills up the airwaves/print with how mean you are?
As a conservative, hate-filled meanie what am I supposed to do with this information?
I mean, what happens if I just don't care?
Liberals don't like me and I find that I can somehow live with this.
Hollywood mocks us. And it seems that I can live with it.
The MSM pushes out all kinds of "information" about me (and has for decades and decades) and, apparently, I can live with it.
So, what now?

[Armchair]

And we care about what a religious organization says because...

Next you'll be up in arms because they say they believe in Jesus, and that violates Church and State.

[not guilty]

As I said, much of what the SBC kvetches about has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus and his teachings. Their hateful resolution has an unseemly focus on same sex coupling, abortion/birth control, and government meddling with other people's sexual and reproductive choices -- all topics as to which Holy Scripture attributes not one word to Jesus.

[A Japanese Student]

I purchased a copy of The Digital Fourth Amendment back in April. After nearly two months of delay (due to shipping issues) it finally arrived. Cost 35 dollars + 10% Japanese VAT; I think the bookstore either offered some discounts or covered the cost of shipping.

[Krayt]

Lol, the unfettered arrogancy of "value added tax" to speech.

[Martinned]

You don't think prof. Kerr's book adds any value?

[Commenter_XY]

No, the point was: a value-added tax is an oxymoron.

Gender-affirming care is another example of an oxymoron.

[Martinned]

How do you figure? Is value-added somehow not a thing you can tax?

[Commenter_XY]

You perfectly mirror leftist progressive ideology, it is hilarious. No eurotrash, a tax never adds value to anything. Leftist progressives like yourself completely miss the distinction (unsurprisingly).

[A Japanese Student]

Value-added tax is spelled "value-added tax", not value-adding tax as you imply. VAT taxes the "value added".

It's one way of imposing a sales tax. The other method - used by the "FairTax" proposal - taxes once at the retail. VAT is easier to enforce, since non-retail sellers and retail sellers are taxed alike.

[Martinned]

Commenter_XY knows this. He's just trolling because he can't figure out how to call Israel attacking another country anything other than Israel attacking another country.

[wnoise]

Requiring more entities to do it makes it easier to enforce?

[Martinned]

I see you're struggling with the English language. I'm not sure that explains some of your other proclivities, but it might.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The 10% VAT is a serious issue -- it is an import duty just as much as any other 10% import duty so why can't/don't we impose a 10% duty on all Japanese imports?

Europe is worse.

[Ridgeway]

You know you are supposed to pay sales tax on stuff you buy from overseas, dont you?

[bye]

Okay, 80% of the commenters were wrong

BREAKING - The man seen distributing tens of thousands of dollars worth of face shields in Los Angeles to rioters has been identified as Alejandro Orellana, a known member of the Brown Berets, a radical Latino paramilitary group that are currently embedded in cities across the United States.

If you want to do penance , start by understanding why you don't know right from wrong

2 of 3 Americans Wouldn't Pass U.S. Citizenship Test

U.S. News & World Report
https://www.usnews.com › News › Politics
Oct 12, 2018 — About two-thirds of Americans would not pass the test required to become a United States citizen, a new survey says

[Krayt]

They don't need a citizenship test. They were born here.

Oooooh, yowch!

[Martinned]

OK, this is objectively hilarious. Apparently Putin simultaneously thinks that the Eurovision has too many gays in it and that it is mean that Russia is not allowed to participate, so he's reviving the old Soviet alternative: Intervision.

The first new Intervision will be in Moscow on 20 September, and obviously the US will be there!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intervision_2025

https://tass.ru/obschestvo/24198091

[hobie]

Just gonna be 20 or so variations of bears on unicycles or homages to Mummenschanz

[Mr. Bumble]

Iran's response so far has been a lot of bluster and 100 drones.
Has the loss of senior military leaders degraded command and control?

[Commenter_XY]

Israel and Iran are at war. If Iran is serious (they are), retaliation will come somewhat later than you might surmise. They're going to want to deliver a huge wallop. It will take 24-48 hours for Iran to assemble a credible military response.

I'd expect terror attacks at synagogues to begin this evening, and tomorrow inside Israel; the usual suspects will be demonstrating (rioting?) in the streets here in America. Both groups are nihilists.

This is not one and done; you don't decapitate military leadership and then just stop. Iran's 'peaceful' nuclear program is undergoing very abrupt changes, presently.

[Frank Drackman]

Wow, sounds like the Ear-Ronians have a plan, hope they’re stocked up on their Iodine tablets

[Dr. Ed 2]

I am not so sure that Iran CAN respond beyond supporting terrorism.
They lack the infrastructure to keep the lights on. They have lost all their top generals, they may even lose the Ayatollah -- who is there to make decisions? Remember that they are along the Nazi model of wait for orders and not the American model of lower ranks taking charge if no one else does.

It's 5 PM over there right now -- sunset in a couple of hours and we will see what Day 2 brings.

I'm more worried about what is going to happen here, in the US, tomorrow.

[David Nieporent]

They lack the infrastructure to keep the lights on. They have lost all their top generals, they may even lose the Ayatollah -- who is there to make decisions? Remember that they are along the Nazi model of wait for orders and not the American model of lower ranks taking charge if no one else does.

It's all in his dissertation, folks.

[tylertusta]

Iran has almost certainly have suffered serious problems controlling and coordinating a response due to the decapitation strike on Iranian command.

Right now Israel is taking advantage of the confusion to work over all of Iran's military; it's like Operation Desert Storm's aerial campaign all over again.

[Frank Drackman]

Governor Hochel* seemed pretty ignorant of some of the most publicized crimes in her State (some in her own Capitol of Albany) since she assumed Cuomo's Orifice, Governor Sergeant Major Pepper Waltz seems to be getting gayer every day, I thought he was going to just float out of that hearing room at some point.

Frank
* I know it's "Hochul" I'm being Ironic, she doesn't know about heinous murders in her own city, I don't know how to spell her stupid name

[Bwaaah]

Stefanik read back Governor Hochul's executive order barring law enforcement from assisting in various forms of immigration law enforcement.

Stefanik: "Isn't that your order, Governor?"
Hochul: "I don't know. Our policy is to cooperate."

"Open Borders" and "Sanctuary Cities" are two examples of elaborate Democrat-created legal frameworks to implement policies that are so indefensible that no mainstream Democratic government official can fully admit that the policies exist, much less their endorsement of those policies.

The Democratic Party line: "So-called Sanctuary cities and so-called open borders never really existed. Those are just vague right-wing confabulations motivated by racial hatred."

The king, now unclothed and naked (and ugly), stands with his chin held high, lacking the dignity to throw on some clothes. He's better than that.

[Malika the Maiz]

Any citations among all those claims?

[Martinned]

Looking past the salivating at the prospect of (someone else's) war that is going on upthread, this seems right to me. (By King's College lecturer Alexander Clarkson on BlueSky.)

The ability of Israeli operatives to move around and take out targets within Iran at will for years raises fundamental questions about the IRGC and Iranian military's grip in ways that undermine the underlying basis for the Khamenei regime's claim to legitimacy.
"We will assert Shia supremacy and restore Iran's great power glory" doesn't really work as the basis for legitimising an authoritarian quasi-theocracy when your most bitter adversary can send its aircraft and special forces operatives to seek and destroy within Iran's borders with impunity
//
Looks like the Israelis are now hitting targets around Tabriz. Like the pager attacks against Hezbollah, yesterday night was the start of a rolling assault, not a one-off.
//
Again, long term the course the Netanyahu government has charted will destabilise Israel itself but there is a brand of hot take about IDF attacks on Iran along the lines of "lol, stupid Israel doesn't understand this stuff is underground" that seems to assume Israelis haven't figured Iran out yet
Much conventional wisdom before 2023 that assumed that Israel didn't have the means or will to do crippling damage to Hamas and Hezbollah was churned out by many of the same people who are now confidently asserting that Israel can't do crippling damage to the Khamenei regime in Iran

Of course, that all depends on the definition of "crippling damage". Both Hamas and Hezbollah will be back in a few years time, and the regime in Teheran isn't going anywhere either.

[tylertusta]

Of course, that all depends on the definition of "crippling damage"

This one is easy: destroying an enemy's ability to wage war and interfere with Israel's ability to wage war.

Hezbollah and Hamas have been wrecked and will take years to recover enough to seriously threaten Israel. Hezbollah and Hamas exist like ISIS still exists, but the only way that they can retunr to become a serious problem for Israel is if Israel lets them.

The same may be true for Iran.

[Dr. Ed 2]

"and the regime in Teheran isn't going anywhere either."

It is if they all go to the morgue.

Israel isn't going to occupy Iran the way that the US occupied (and Americanized) Japan but Japan is not the theocratic state it was in 1945. And without Iran, there will be a lot less terrorism.

[Don Nico]

Israel is not going to occupy Gaza either the attorney general of the IDF had forbade that.

[Bwaaah]

Martinned: "Both Hamas and Hezbollah will be back in a few years time, and the regime in Teheran isn't going anywhere either."

There have always been enemies of peace...perpetuators of violence and conquests. There have always been warriors willing to oppose those enemies, to stand in "defense."

Some see defensive warriors, and their wars, as having contributed to the well-being of the greater populace. Others see defensive warriors as having detracted from well-being.

You can probably agree with everything I've said (if a passivist, maybe not) except for this: the people of the IDF are the defensive warriors in this case, and Iranian government officials are the perpetuators of violence.

"Unwind the sin. Death to Israel."

[Malika the Maiz]

The perpetrators of this attack?

[Michael P]

Both Hamas and Hezbollah will be back in a few years time, and the regime in Teheran isn't going anywhere either.

People used to make the same claims about Saddam Hussein (for example, in 1991) and Muammar Qaddafi. Now even their regimes exist only in history books.

[Martinned]

Another noteworthy judgment from the European Court for Human Rights, also handed down yesterday: T.H. v. the Czech Republic

48. The Court reiterates that the right to respect for private life under Article 8 of the Convention extends to gender identity, as a component of personal identity. This holds true for all individuals, including transgender people who have not undergone gender reassignment treatment or who do not wish to undergo such treatment (see A.P., Garçon and Nicot, cited above, §§ 92-94, and R.K. v. Hungary, no. 54006/20, § 52, 22 June 2023).

49. The Court has already found that it is the States’ positive obligation under Article 8 to provide quick, transparent and accessible procedures for changing the registered sex/gender marker of transgender people (see A.D. and Others v. Georgia, nos. 57864/17 and 2 others, 1 December 2022, and R.K. v. Hungary, cited above). It has further established that making the legal recognition of the new gender identity of transgender people conditional on sterilisation or treatment involving a very high probability of sterilisation, which such individuals did not wish to undergo, violates Article 8 of the Convention. In the Court’s view, such a requirement amounts to making the full exercise of the right to respect for private life conditional on relinquishing full exercise of the right to respect for physical integrity, which is directly involved when it comes to sterilisation (see, in particular, A.P., Garçon and Nicot, cited above, § 131).

50. On the other hand, the Court has considered that the requirements to prove, with a view to having the gender marker on a birth certificate amended, the existence of a psychiatric diagnosis of gender identity disorder and to undergo an expert medical assessment, strike a fair balance between the competing interests at stake (ibid., §§ 139-54). In this connection, however, it observes that at the time, “transsexualism” was included in Chapter V of the World Health Organisation’s International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10) entitled “Mental and behavioural disorders”, under the category “Disorders of adult personality and behaviour”, sub-category “Gender identity disorders” (ibid., § 139). As pointed out by the Commissioner for Human Rights of the Council of Europe (see paragraph 28 above), this is no longer the case. The new version issued in 2024 (ICD-11) has redefined gender identity-related health to reflect current knowledge that trans-related and gender diverse identities are not conditions of mental ill-health. Therefore, “transsexualism” has been replaced with “gender incongruence of adolescence and adulthood”, which now appears in a new chapter “Conditions related to sexual health” and is characterised by a marked and persistent incongruence between an individual’s experienced gender and the assigned sex, which often leads to a desire to “transition”, in order to live and be accepted as a person of the experienced gender. This may involve hormonal treatment, surgery or other healthcare services to align the individual’s body, as much as desired and to the extent possible, with the experienced gender.

https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/?i=001-243567

[Frank Drackman]

I picture all of these “International” Courts like the one on that 3 Stooges Episode (“Disorder in the Court”??) “Raise your right hand!””Take off your hat!”(Repeat 10 times, I still laugh my ass off
“do you Swear?!???”
“No, but I know all the words”

Frank

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

To which other aspects of personal identity does it extend?

[apedad]

U.S. Attorney’s Office Warns of Scams Targeting Seniors

Here are some of the types of scams that typically target older adults (see article for active links):

- Cryptocurrency scams, where a victim is promised large returns by investing in cryptocurrency.
- Lottery scams, where a caller convinces a senior that they have won money, but they must first pay a fee or tax before claiming the prize.
- Grandparent scams, where a scammer convinces a senior that their grandchildren have been arrested and need money for bail.
- Romance or friendship scams, where the victim is convinced by their new acquaintance that they need money for any number of reasons.
- Government agent schemes, where victims are told they owe back taxes by fake IRS agents or are contacted by someone posing as a Social Security employee and told to provide money to fix a problem with their account.
- Money Mule scams, where a scammer recruits seniors to send or receive money or packages.
- Tech support scams, where victims will click on a pop up message on their computer claiming that there is malware or a virus on a device and can offer assistance in exchange for money.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndoh/pr/us-attorneys-office-warns-scams-targeting-seniors

I'm pretty sure we have quite a few VC commentors who are 60+ so make sure you understand the (active!) threats out there.

[Moderation4ever]

In the age we live in everyone senior or not need to be suspicious. There is not a day go by that my email is not full of scams. Scammers are always looking for a person's weakness, whether than be a interest in money or in love, they children and grandchildren, or who know what else.

[Frank Drackman]

You mean this Ethiopian Prince doesn’t really have $85 billion but needs my Bank Account routing number to get his Ferrari out of impound? dammit!

[Moderation4ever]

Scammers today are a lot more skilled than the old Ethiopian Prince.

[Brett Bellmore]

Most of them are pretty crude, though. Fake bills for things I didn't buy, if I want to contest them they need my billing info, that sort of thing.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Well, Trump's been pretty successful.

[David Nieporent]

*Nigerian.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Nobody needs to be suspicious. And that's good, because suspicion is just another vulnerability a skilled scammer can use for leverage.

The tech support scam mentioned above may come with features to do that, such as a call-back number attributed to a big corporate name. Plus an invitation to call that number to confirm the validity of some money-related crisis. The guy who answers, for instance, "Apple Security," will of course be an accomplice of the scammer, with a story to fan the flames of panic.

How can you help vulnerable people get along without suspicion? Teach them one invariable rule. Ask each time you deal with a stranger by phone, by mail, by internet, or even in person, "Did I do the first action to initiate this contact?" No? It's a scam. Always. Invariable rule, whether you have just learned your grandchild is in peril, or not.

I have reached an age where many extended-family contemporaries get targeted. That rule helps especially the ones who suffer mild-to-medium impairments. Beyond that, only an arrangement to limit how much money the impaired person has agency to spend will prove adequately protective.

[ducksalad]

Other scams that fall within the strict letter of the law but are nonetheless scams:

Solar panel scams. Elderly victims are sold a solar installation on credit, backed up by a lien on their house, at a ruinous price several times higher than the going rate. (My in-laws were badly hurt by this one.)

They'll Take Your Social Security scams. Elderly victims are asked to donate four-figure sums to the DNC/RNC, on the basis that if they don't the RNC/DNC will win and take away their social security.

AARP scam. Elderly victims are asked to allow an autopay on their credit card in return for a monthly advertising flyer with "articles" about as well written as a clickbait listicle but less useful. Also pays the salaries of lobbyists "defending" stuff no one is even thinking of attacking.

[bernard11]

I got one I had never heard of before - a phone call purporting to be from CBP and telling me they had intercepted some packages addressed to me that contained cash and drugs.

They knew I was innocent, of course, but needed control of my accounts for the investigation.

It was pretty well-done, actually, though the premise was absurd.

[Brett Bellmore]

A friend of mine got a call from the "FBI" saying that one of their online accounts had been used for terroristic threats, and could he prove it wasn't him?

In this case, he was able to verify that in fact somebody HAD taken control of that account from him, and was using it that way. Actually was the FBI! They helped him get control of it back, too.

[Bwaaah]

LOL. If I found myself in that situation, respectfully, I'd be unwilling to discuss anything without first validating the alleged FBI agent's identity.

Additionally, I think I have successfully propagated fear in my immediate family members of unauthenticated actors saying, "This is [blah][blah]." I always ask them, "How do you know who that is?"

Enough genuine scammers (e.g. "Amazon's fraud alert department") have tried to get at them that they are instinctively paranoid now. But I don't think it's the scammers they fear; it's that "oh shit" feeling they get when I ask them how they know who it is.

[ducksalad]

My wife and I got taken in by three scams in 48 hours when we went to Prague. And we were still in our 40's...

The best one was some guys on the sidewalk scalping tickets outside a concert "just about to start" by the Royal Czech Symphony. I had already bought the tickets and was in the lobby before it occurred to me that it's the Czech Republic. When we went into the hall there actually was a concert going on, and by some musicians that were at least good-amateur grade competent, but it had started two hours earlier and ended after ten minutes or so.

The other two were more mundane. We were examining the subway map to navigate our way to our hotel when a helpful man came up and asked if he could help. Told us the hotel was miles outside the metro system and we needed a taxi. Which he arranged for us. After a wild ride we did get to the hotel, which literally had a subway entrance on the sidewalk just outside the front door.

Later my wife got her purse snatched while watching for that famous giant cuckoo clock to do its thing.

She also got taken for 50 Euros in Berlin by one of those "Do you speak English? I have to talk with someone who can help me" women, well-dressed, British accent, and carrying a baby near the Brandenburg gate. My wife should've understood that every German speaks English, so the premise didn't make sense.

[Bwaaah]

LOL. Living in New York City (as I do), people tend to learn to be instinctively untrusting of overtures from strangers, and beyond just distrusting, they learn to be dismissive of those strangers.

The downside of that distrust is that you miss the benefits that come from all those people who go around looking to give strangers something for nothing.

[Frank Drackman]

as the possessor of a DEA number I occasionally get the phone message "This is DEA Agent Callahan(spoken by someone with such a thick Indian accent you can almost smell the Curry through the speaker) Call us Immediately!!"
and if you call they "Need your DEA number for an Investigation!"
wait, they're the DEA, they're the ones who gave me the number in the first place
I used to like to fuck around with them, then realized, it's not too smart, and there was the one time it was an actual DEA Agent with an Indian accent......

Frank

[Dr. Ed 2]

My favorite is the renew the insurance on your appliances scam.

[Martinned]

You're forgetting another scam that famously targets seniors: https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-2024/election-analysis-older-voters.html

[Swede425]

There's been some sudden retirements in Iran and at least 3 (for now) senior positions have opened up.
Which American universities do you think Iran will recruit from?

[Dr. Ed 2]

ROTF,L....

[Frank Drackman]

Pretty much any that's got any kind of Engineering/Technology curriculum, Auburn had a shitload of Ear-Ronians in the early 80's (most of them sought asylum because of the Shah, funny they didn't go home when Khomeni took over)

[hobie]

Got a used Masterbuilt electric smoker last week on Marketplace for $40. What took me so long?! So far I've done a pork picnic roast, ribs and some beef short ribs. Just follow the same procedures you do for pit smoking.

OMG. Only three or four handfuls of soaked wood chips (pecan) over as many hours. 225F maintained the entire time. Perfectly smoked meat (with smoke ring!). I highly recommend

[Frank Drackman]

Ribs? Reminds me of a joke
“How do we know Adam wasn’t Black?”
Funny thing is, if you know the answer YOUR’E the Race-ist

[Brett Bellmore]

I'll look into it; I use an old Redstone grill with smoker box from Tractor Supply, and while it gets the job done, I have to pretty actively manage it the whole while.

[hobie]

No joke. This thing is set-it-and-forget-it

[Brett Bellmore]

Well, I do want set and forget, but I also want cold smoking and big enough to smoke my own hams. Thinking of building a smokehouse in the backyard.

I've got a barter arrangement with a farmer friend who provides me with pork bellies, and I convert them to bacon and return about half of it to him. Branching out into hams would be fun.

[Frank Drackman]

You're doing that to me on purpose aren't you?, Ribs, Pork Bellies, Bacon, (No Pulled Pork? you gotta have the Pulled Pork) and with the Sabbath only hours away...

[Brett Bellmore]

My wife's making lumpia today, your mouth will be watering if you've ever had that.

[Mr. Bumble]

Got a better name for it because "lumpia" isn't doing it for me?

[ducksalad]

"Philippines-style eggroll" but instead of a few flecks of meat with cabbage-y stuff, the filler is almost all meat. Also the wrapper tends to be lighter and tastier. Try it you'll like it.

However, if anyone offers you "baguong" or "baggong", politely decline. If they offer you "baloot" run away.

[Brett Bellmore]

Can't argue with that, she talked me into trying balut once, never again!

[Jmaie]

I love me some terasi, so I’d happily try the Filipino version.

[ducksalad]

Which kind: pork, shrimp, or the ones made from pork and shrimp ground together? Those are the best ones.

[Brett Bellmore]

Whichever she feels like making. Probably pork tonight.

[Jmaie]

Masterbuilt 1050. More than$40 of course…

[hobie]

Purchased used on FB Marketplace, bro. I shop there first before going to stores

[Michael P]

I had an electric smoker... until its plug shorted out and got stuck in an extension cable. I replaced it with a pellet smoker, which I was a lot happier with. The pellet smoker required cleaning each season (because pellets will absorb moisture over time and clog the feed/auger) but got a lot more smoke, held temperatures on its own just as well, and didn't draw high current.

[A Japanese Student]

The Government of Japan has proposed sending checks to every citizen because "tax revenue was larger than expected" and people are suffering from inflation. Each Japanese citizen is entitled to 20k yen ($138) under the proposal;. Despite the stated intent to offer a "tax refund", children and low-income adults (who are not taxed) will receive the doubled amount, at 40k yen.

This proposal will cost three trillion yen - which is very easy to estimate (just multiply population by 20k, then add 20k for each non-taxed individual). The Prime Minister says this will not worsen Japan's fiscal situation.

Opposition parties have criticized this move as ineffective in combating inflation, and instead proposed to lower the sales tax rate.

(Why is the Cabinet suddenly giving money to people? Well, there's an election next month...)

[Martinned]

Opposition parties have criticized this move as ineffective in combating inflation

Well yes, it's a fiscal impulse. That will put inflation up, not down.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Maybe not -- a one-time, relatively small amount might not -- it depends what the individuals do with it.

The larger question is why does Japan, land of savings and negative interest rates, have inflation?

[A Japanese Student]

Japan stopped negative interest rate some time ago. We were not somehow immune from post-COVID inflation.

[David Nieporent]

I blame Joe Biden.

[A Japanese Student]

Today in Japan: the Government just promulgated Cabinet Order 213. It reads:

Article 1. The essential goods to be designated by Cabinet Order under Emergency Living Conditions Stabilization Act shall be rice.
Article 2. It shall be unlawful for any person who purchased rice from a person selling rice to the general public to transfer the said rice (limited to transfer to the general public for profit).
Article 7. Whoever violates Article 2 shall be imprisoned for not more than a year, fined not more than 1 million yen, or both.

Yes, this is a Cabinet Order, not approved by the legislature, with a punitive provision. This is actually constitutional under the Japanese Constitution's text, because the Stabilization Act explicitly authorizes punitive provisions.

That said, the powers under the Stabilization Act is very expansive. It authorizes price control, manufacture or sale order, restrictions on capital investment, rationing, warrantless inspection, etc. https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/2802

This is not the only plan against the uncontrolled increase in the rice price. The Government released (metric) tons of reserve rice, first by bidding, then by no-bid contract because the submitted bids were too high. They're also increasing imports of rice.

[ducksalad]

Wasn't even aware there was a rice crisis (panic?) going on in Japan. How bad is it?

[A Japanese Student]

The average price at retail more than doubled in the last 12 months. It is so bad that, even with the very high tariffs, Calrose is now cheaper than domestically produced rice.

[A Japanese Student]

When I went to the supermarket last week, Calrose was around 2900 yen per 4kg (tax included), while a 5kg bag of domestically produced rice cost somewhere around 4200-4700 yen.

That means, before tax, Calrose is 671 yen/kg ($4.65), while Japanese rice was 778-870 yen/kg ($5.40-$6.00).

The tariffs for rice is currently set at 341 yen/kg. Tariffs account for more than half of the Calrose's price, yet it is cheaper than Japanese rice.

[Mr. Bumble]

Curious. What factors would account for making domestic rice more expensive than imported rice?

[A Japanese Student]

Basic supply and demand. Up until the crisis, rice meant Japanese rice - nobody would eat (or sell) foreign rice. When the price got so high imported rice became cheaper, companies started selling imported rice (because that's the only competitive advantage they have).

[ducksalad]

I'm going to guess that there are differences in grain, texture, and taste that seem slight to an outsider but make all the difference in the world to a native.

Iranians and Filipinos both think their rice is the standard by which all others should be judged.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The water it is grown in makes a big difference -- some rice has a very high (dangerous) level of Arsenic in it -- because it is in the water.

[Brett Bellmore]

A lot of reasons, but I think mostly it's a consequence of the depopulation of the Japanese countryside, and a shortage of agricultural workers. Turns out you need people living near rice paddies in order to grow rice.

[Mr. Bumble]

Guess they need an influx of illegal aliens to do the job.

[Brett Bellmore]

They're still hoping to get the bioroid production lines up and running in time.

[A Japanese Student]

Doesn't need to be illegal. We call it "Technical Intern Training Program", a fancy way of saying "modern slavery".

[Kazinski]

I think its mainly because land in Japan is in mostly small family sized plots that are inefficient to farm.

My first wife was second generation Japanese American, we went to where her father grew up where her uncle still had the family rice plot in the 80's.

The plots were at most a few acres, and scattered houses among the rice patties.

Whereas in California the fields are at least a few hundred acres, and they can really apply economies of scale. Not to mention less than 12% of Japan is arable land, but more than 40% of California is.

[ducksalad]

On the one hand, those prices are double what we pay here. On the other hand, I've always been under the impression that most things in Japan are more expensive what we pay here. I guess rice was an exception, up to now.

[Jmaie]

I wouldn’t of thought there would be much of a market for medium grain rice in Japan.

[Martinned]

Meanwhile, in non-shooting news:

1. Trump's tax cuts overwhelmingly help the rich
2. His spending cuts are targeted at the poor
3. Tariffs cost the poor a larger share of their income

Roll these three regressive policies together and you get the largest redistribution from poor to rich in American history.

Courtesy of prof. Justin Wolfers. The pretty pictures are here: https://www.datawrapper.de/_/lZhZl/?v=4

[Brett Bellmore]

It's kind of hard to cut taxes and not primarily help the rich, since the rich pay most of the taxes.

[bernard11]

How do you think the cuts will affect the deficits?

What do you think about Wolfers' second and third points?

[Sarcastr0]

It's not hard to cut taxes and not primarily help the rich - just target the tax brackets that aren't the rich.

And as bernard noted, you jumped to defend the risk and utterly forgot about the poor.

[ThePublius]

The poor don't pay taxes. They take more from government coffers than they contribute. Note that approximately 1/2 of U.S. citizens and legal residents pay no income taxes.

So, if you cut taxers, yes, the "rich" benefit. But they already pay the bulk of income tax.

[jb]

Not so. Lowering the lower tax brackets helps most people and caps the benefit to rich people. Lowering the top tax bracket in particular generally has a huge impact on rich people's taxes and doesn't help poorer people at all.

Having said that, the economy is in pretty good shape; there is a huge deficit. We shouldn't be cutting taxes for anyone right now.

[David Nieporent]

It's kind of hard to cut taxes and not primarily help the rich, since the rich pay most of the taxes.

I mean, it's not. Yes, if your goal is simply to drastically lower the amount collected, you're right; cutting taxes on the poor won't do that. But if your goal is to cut taxes on the poor, then you can easily cut taxes and not primarily help the rich, by cutting taxes that the poor pay. (Whether that's a good idea or not, I'm not addressing.)

[Mr. Bumble]

Of course it depends on who we define as "poor" and what taxes we are talking about.
People who are really poor probably don't pay any federal income tax but if they are working SS etc. kicks in at dollar one.

[ducksalad]

I tend to be dismissive of any claim that ends with "in American history". It's been overused too often for too long by liars, most especially and recently by the greatest liar... in American history.

[hobie]

Sen. Reed: "You signed a contract with a company to reconfigure the [Qatari jet]. What is the price of that contract?”
Pete Hegseth: “That cannot be revealed.”
Reed: “This is the Appropriations Committee of the United States Senate. We appropriate the money that you will spend.”

[Dr. Ed 2]

Hegseth: That cannot be revealed outside of a classified hearing...

Reed should know better...

[hobie]

I think of all the sleazy FOX personalities placed in charge, Hegseth is the sleaziest

[Sarcastr0]

Why would the bare number of contract price be classified?

[Commenter_XY]

You're the government employee, go figure it out.

[ducksalad]

Same reason the majority of stuff is classified. Because the answer would be embarrassing to the administration.

[Dr. Ed 2]

No, the amount of the contract indicates the size of the program and gives other powers an indication of the program's importance, particularly when combined with other info they may have.

[Sarcastr0]

1. The general size and importance of AF1 is not a secret.

2. Derivative classification cannot reach back and classify otherwise unclassified items because of speculative risk of speculative combinations with speculative other info.

[ducksalad]

"the amount of the contract indicates the size of the program"

Yes, that is exactly what would be embarrassing to the administration.

"other powers"

By which you mean Democrats.

[apedad]

Remember in 2017 when Trump stated, "CHAIN MIGRATION cannot be allowed to be part of any legislation on Immigration!"

FYI, First Lady Melania Trump's Slovenian-born parents were sworn in as U.S. citizens (in Aug 2018), benefiting from a path to citizenship known as family-based immigration that the president and others have derisively dubbed "chain migration."

"Chain immigration" is the process by which immigrants sponsor family members to join them in a new country, creating a network of familial connections that facilitates further immigration.

FYI, the First Lady came to the United States in 1996; obtained a green card in 2001; and became a naturalized citizen in 2006.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/10/637371714/first-ladys-parents-become-u-s-citizens-thanks-to-chain-migration

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

He can get another wife?

[ducksalad]

To her credit, she's mostly refrained from loudmouthing about immigration herself. I suspect it's not the only issue where she disagrees with her husband.

[ThePublius]

Karen Read Trial Closing Arguments live now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sYvHaaZ73A

[ThePublius]

I will be shocked if KR is convicted. John O'Keefe was supposedly hit by a 6k lb. SUV backing at 24 mph; yet, no bruises, no broken bones. How could that be?

[Dr. Ed 2]

This is Massachusetts, where 95% of the judges make the other 5% look bad.

[Magister]

The defense claims he was beaten by others before being left to die, so how could that be possible if there are no bruises or other injuries? And who is claiming she was backing up at 24 miles per hour?

[ThePublius]

He had injuries consistent with being beaten and falling backwards onto a har surface, including injuries to his eye socket, an apparent subdural hematoma, etc. His arm injuries are obviously dog bites and scratches,, not from an auto impact. But, no injuries consistent with being struck by a car, like bruising and broken bones in the supposed area of impact. The speed was reported, I think, according to data from the car.

[ThePublius]

The jury has it. Deliberations began about 16 minutes ago.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Lockheed Martin orders managers to give bonuses based on skin color rather than performance.

For example, for one team the manager was ordered to "increase POC 4 and decrease non-minority 4."

[TwelveInchPianist]

In case there's any doubt about what DEI is about.

[jb]

The alternative perspective is: they did a big project in which people of all races participated. This guy only wanted to give bonuses to his white buddies. Someone noticed that he was giving bonuses only to white people and not to everyone else on the team and wanted to know what was going on.

Maybe there's an innocent explanation; maybe the actual racism was in the original bonus proposal. We have no idea without a lot more context.

[Kazinski]

There is no way to justify a instruction like that.

Do yourself a favor and don't even try. Even if your imagined scenario was true, just saying take 4 white people off the list and replace them with POC is discrimination of itself, and can't be defended.

The proper response would be provide a list of the employees and the justification for bonuses and justification for not giving a bonus, and of course there would be no need to know their race.

[hobie]

I was amused to see that the only proof the journal gave to anything in its article, was a single link to an article they had previously published themselves. With this much proof, they should get Comer to start an investigation. Or, as Edward Norton said in Fight Club: 'Or maybe you shouldn't bring me every little piece of trash you happen to pick up.'

[TwelveInchPianist]

Huh? They have a source who worked there recounting what he was required to do, and who has the documents.

And Lockheed Martin seems concerned.

[Magister]

They seem more concerned with staying on the good side of Trump, who may move on from law firms and universities to defense contractors.

[tylertusta]

Maybe.

Do you agree that Lockheed's alleged conduct is not just ethically bad, but also illegal?

[bernard11]

Sure.

Do you agree that one unconfirmed report based on one anonymous source should be viewed with great skepticism, especially when it aligns so nicely with the reporter's opinions?

[tylertusta]

Skeptical? Certainly.

That doesn't mean it can't be investigated as the allegation is very serious. I haven't forgotten that during the Biden years the EEOC and DOJ have been not-so-subtly encouraging companies to adopt racist policies that arguably violated federal law, so I wouldn't at all be surprised to hear that LockMart followed their direction and actually broke the law.

If it turns out to not be true then the whistleblower should be pursued- it shouldn't be hard to find out who it was, assuming that the reporter doesn't out his source for lying to him.

[hobie]

What source? Unnamed (which is fine) providing hearsay and emails of which I see no redacted copies of (not so fine, esp. since we have an unnamed source). Like I said, this is right up Comer's alley. Let's see what he can make of it

[TwelveInchPianist]

You can check out the excerpts on Rufo's Twitter feed.

[hobie]

No thank you. When you have an unnamed source making hearsay (which is as far as I will accept), then making hearsay about hearsay documents which are themselves hearsay...then all you have is Qanon

[bernard11]

They claim to have a source who claims to have worked there.

Besides, Rufo is not a credible journalist but a professional right-wing agitator.

[Bob from Ohio]

The Israeli attack on Iran has been amazing.

Complete tactical surprise despite ample hints an attack was imminent.

Complete control of the air, attacks on Iranian air defenses apparently disabled much of it.

Complete Mossad penetration of Iranian security. They knew the precise locations of numerous senior military and nuclear figures. Mossad agents launched drones from Iranian territory!

So far a minimal response. Drones all shot down.

This may be more impressive than their neutering of Hezbollah.

Am Yisrael Chai!

[Brett Bellmore]

Iran's anti-Mossad operation was run by Mossad, didn't you hear? Iranian security was so deeply penetrated by Israel it was embarrassing.

[tylertusta]

At this point I think that most of Iran's intelligence services was actually just Israel's intelligence service helping them out.

[Mr. Bumble]

Is there an Iranian underground helping Israel?

[Frank Drackman]

I guess those F35's have some value after all

[Commenter_XY]

Yes, Am Yisrael Chai.

Don't sing victory yet. Great start. Need to finish the job.

[Bob from Ohio]

"Great start. Need to finish the job."

Attacks continuing today. No effective opposition yet, except some chest pounding threats from the replacement officials.

[Malika the Maiz]

Bob and XY are celebrating.

What benefits for America are worth celebrating here?

[Commenter_XY]

See my post to eurotrash, above.

[Frank Drackman]

and I'm the Stew-pid one?
Seriously, Gretta Thornberg has more self-awareness.
Terrorists who have been murdering, forget about the Israeli's and other Jews, who I know you don't give a fuck about, because we're so much smarter (and better looking) than you people, but millions of Amuricans for the last 50 years, have been blown to Smithereens (HT Y. Sam)
Oh, and I still ain't found no job, how I sposed to pay dis rent? You think you can let me slide it on, y'know?

Frank

[hobie]

This all smacks of antishiite terrorism!

[Frank Drackman]

You misspelled "Shiite", take out one of the "i"'s and the "e" off the end, make the "s" a capital, and you have it right.

[ReaderY]

Members of Congress are explicitly priveleged from arrest by Article II of the constitution except for treason, felony, or breech of the peace. Senator Padilla’s arrest while clearly conducting his official duties was a violation of this privelege.

Those involved, up to andincluding the Secretary of Homeland Security, can be subject to arrest and prosecution for assault and kidnapping, or can be impeached by Congress, as soon as the membership of Congress and/or the administration changes.

[Mr. Bumble]

He wasn't arrested!

[SRG2]

He was handcuffed. That's an arrest,

[Mr. Bumble]

No, it is not an arrest.

[Brett Bellmore]

No, that IS an arrest. It is literally impossible for the police to grab you, force you to the ground, and cuff you, without having "arrested" you. Even the Supreme court, which has some pretty weird ideas about what doesn't qualify as an arrest, isn't that silly.

[Commenter_XY]

Agree, he was detained and that is pretty much the same as arrest. Press accounts indicate the Senator was not wearing his congressional pin (on purpose?). The Senator was engaged in performative theatrics, or, as Rev Kirkland used to say, 'lathering up the rubes' (you're not forgotten, Arthur).

[Frank Drackman]

"Bum Rushed" is more accurate

[Brett Bellmore]

Actually, that WAS just precisely a breach of the peace.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

I'm pretty sure "breach of the peace" has been litigated before, and I'm also pretty sure that asking a question "out of turn" ain't it...

[TwelveInchPianist]

Rushing the podium during a press conference is.

And felony, breach of peace, etc. means any crime.

But as others have said, he wasn't on his way to Congress, he was in his home district.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

He didn't "rush the podium".

[Brett Bellmore]

Asking a question out of turn can certainly be a breach of the peace, depending on how you do it.

NBC: Sen. Padilla (D-Ca) Restrained & Removed after disrupting DHS Sec. Noem's News Conference That's NBC, mind you, characterizing him as disrupting it, not FOX.

PBS: WATCH: Sen. Padilla forcibly removed after interrupting Homeland Security news conference in LA PBS, too, was not impressed.

The Constitution prohibits arresting members of Congress in order to keep them from attending Congress, it doesn't immunize them if they burst into and interrupt somebody else's press conference.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

You can see for yourself that he did nothing to "breach the peace" other than speak out of turn at a press conference. That's not a crime in the United States of America.

[Brett Bellmore]

Actually... yes, it is a crime. Limited access event, you had to be invited. So it was at a minimum trespass.

Again I'll say it, even generally sympathetic to Democrats outlets like NBC and PBS aren't pretending he wasn't being disruptive.

All he had to do was wait his turn, and he'd likely have gotten to ask his question even without an invite, on the basis of being a Senator. But he didn't really want to ask a question. He wanted to be manhandled in front of cameras.

[Sarcastr0]

Asking performative questions does not mean you want to be arrested.

And asking a question at a press conference you weren't invited to isn't a crime!

This is police state shit. You continue to be the worst libertarian.

[Mr. Bumble]

Aren't you going to be late for the No Kings Rally?

[Brett Bellmore]

No, idiot, BEING AT a press conference you weren't invited to is the crime. "Trespassing", remember? It's a crime he'd likely have gotten away with, too, if he hadn't deliberately been disruptive.

[Sarcastr0]

One of those not really crimes you now want to enforce because someone spoke out of turn.

Well below a hecklers veto, this is you being anti speech. And pro police state tactics.

[not guilty]

No, Brett. Trespass is an intentional invasion into another’s exclusive right to possession of property. Criminal trespass requires prior notification to the offender not to enter or the offender remaining on the property of another after having been told to leave by a person with authority to do so.

Stop making shit up.

[ThePublius]

Why are you defending this jerk? Security didn't know who he was, and he was aggressively disrupting the press conference, and physically resisted being removed. Jerk. And you defend him. Also jerk.

[SRG2]

He said who he was.

[Bob from Ohio]

Maybe he shouldn't have been dressed like a delivery man.

[Mr. Bumble]

Side gig?
Fetterman style follower?

[Mr. Bumble]

OH, he said who he was.

[Frank Drackman]

He should have shown them his Amurican Express Card (does anyone get that reference?)

[ReaderY]

So if somebody beats up Mr. Trump for behaving like a jerk, as he often does, it’s a completely acceptable defense that he couldn’t be expected to know who he was? That he wasn’t behaving like a President, so how could anyone possibly be expected to know he was one?

[hobie]

So you don't like it when someone acts to disrupt congressmen, eh?

[jb]

So how do you feel about all the plainclothes ICE agents hiding their faces as they nab people off the streets?

If security can't be expected to recognize a Senator, how can random citizens be expected to recognize the authority of people just asserting they're federal agents?

[ThePublius]

Oh, because these two situations are otherwise identical; the illegals were giving press conferences where they were clearly identified, and the ICE agents burst in, disguised, and attempted to disrupt the conference. Is that what happened? Oh, and the illegals were cabinet secretaries.

[Malika the Maiz]

Did that answer his question of
“If security can't be expected to recognize a Senator, how can random citizens be expected to recognize the authority of people just asserting they're federal agents”?

[Frank Drackman]

You been to SoCal in the last 20 years? I can feel my Kulchitsky cells becoming cancerous with every breath, funny how with all their environmental regulations, you see more 60's muscle cars burning rubber than any other region, then add the perpetual fires on top.

[SRG2]

Could you cultists get your act together? Why don't you have the honesty to say, "we approve of Padilla's arrest because how dare he interrupt Noem, so fuck him" rather than lie about the circumstances?

[Mr. Bumble]

Keep repeating the lie. Goebbels would be so proud.
He WAS NOT arrested!

[Brett Bellmore]

Oh, come on. Any time police grab you, handcuff you, and don't let you go where you please, you've been 'arrested'. They let him go once they'd hustled him out of the room, but he was indeed arrested for a short while, that much was true.

And properly so. He wants to control the microphone he can hold his own press conference.

[Mr. Bumble]

So anytime you're pulled over for a traffic violation you're "arrested"?

[Brett Bellmore]

If they manhandle me and put handcuffs on me? Absolutely.

I've mocked the Court for saying that it's not an "arrest" because you're perfectly free to just walk or drive away while a police officer is talking to you, but even they're not silly enough to deny it's an arrest when your face is on the floor and your arms behind you cuffed together.

[ducksalad]

The Court has given them some wiggle room for "brief investigative detention" or something like that, without triggering all the constitutional requirements for an arrest.

I agree the distinction deserves some mocking. But to be fair, if asked whether they want to have a permanent record that they were arrested (which has to be public by default) versus a brief unrecorded encounter that doesn't pop up in a Google search, most people not seeking notoriety would prefer the latter. Especially if it involved handcuffs.

[not guilty]

Like Lewis Carroll's Humpty Dumpty, when Brett uses a word, it means just what Brett chooses it to mean — neither more nor less.

[Malika the Maiz]

Brett is disagreeing with Bumble here, arguing (reasonably imho) it was an arrest.

[ThePublius]

I don't think that's so. Police can detain you without arresting you.

[SRG2]

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/arrest-vs-detention-how-tell-whether-you-ve-been-arrested-simply-detained.html

Factors Indicating a Detention Turned Into an Arrest
Courts consider a variety of factors in determining whether a detention has ripened into an arrest, among them:

* the amount of force the police used [points to arrest]
* the need for use of force [no]
* the number of officers involved [arrest[
* whether officers suspected the suspect of being armed [no]
* the manner in which officers physically handled the suspect (including the use of handcuffs), [arrest] and
* the length of the stop.[unclear]
(U.S. v. Vargas, 369 F.3d 98 (2d Cir. 2004), In re Hoch, 82 A.3d 1167 (Vt. 2013).)

On balance - particularly use of force, number of officers involved, and use of handcuffs, it was an arrest.

[Kazinski]

I approve of his arrest because he dared interrupt Noem.

But if Noem interrupts one of his press conferences in the same way then I would fully approve his own security detaining Noem until they verify her identity and determine she is no threat.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Yes, how dare he interrupt her clearly articulated admission that the federal government is in LA to "liberate" the city from its "socialist" elected government...

[Brett Bellmore]

Yes, that's fine.

[Bob from Ohio]

"clearly conducting his official duties was a violation of this privelege [sic]"

You are confusing the speech and debate clause with the arrest privilege.

The arrest privilege is more limited

"during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same"

[ducksalad]

One would guess the original meaning covered travelling from their home state to Washington and back, and their time in Washington while Congress was in session. Which was expected to be brief, not year-round.

[Michael P]

It still doesn't extend to trying to rush the podium during a briefing separate from their chamber's session.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

There was no "rushing" of podiums evident from any of the footage.

Who told you that?

[Frank Drackman]

There was a "Rushing" all right, of the "Bum" variety

[TwelveInchPianist]

Noem's side says he lunged at her. Although the beginning of the incident doesn't appear to have been caught on camera, there is video consistent with this, that shows Padilla restrained when he is up front past the audience.

[Kazinski]

Breech of the peace is clearly not protected.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Speaking out of turn at a press conference is not a crime.

[Frank Drackman]

Did you see the way he threw like a girl at the "Congressional Baseball Game" the night before? He should have been arrested in DC for impersonating a baseball player.

[David Nieporent]

Members of Congress are explicitly priveleged from arrest by Article II of the constitution except for treason, felony, or breech of the peace. Senator Padilla’s arrest while clearly conducting his official duties was a violation of this privelege.

Um, your premise is wrong. Their protection from arrest is only "during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same." Not "while conducting official duties."

[Kazinski]

Padilla doesn't have any complaints, he got exactly what he wanted out of the stunt, he probably tipped the officers after it was over and invited them for drinks.

I quote CNN's reporter here not because he is some impartial observer or arbiter, but he is an expert on press conferences and their protocols so his perspective is worth hearing:

CNN's David Chalian didn't mince words about what really happened here and why Padilla was actually there. "I mean, he's there to spark a moment and create attention. There's no doubt this is a, you know, political tactic that he was employing,...she was holding a press conference and doing a press statement. He's not a member of the press."

Also on the panel was Boris Sanchez, who noted that Democrat voters want to see such confrontation and see discussions with Trump officials at the White House as capitulation.

But Chalian's assessment was more realistic: "He clearly showed up to a public event to create a moment and do what you're saying, sort of show his constituents, not just Democrats, but that he's fighting from his perspective."

https://pjmedia.com/matt-margolis/2025/06/13/even-cnn-cant-defend-padillas-phony-stunt-n4940781

[JoeFromtheBronx]

He's a member of Congress with oversight authority.

Asking a question shouldn't "spark moments" like this. How thin-skinned is the Trump Administration?

If some Republican member of the Senate showed up at a Biden Administration event like this and tried to ask a question, they too shouldn't be handcuffed. I'm somewhat unsure everyone here would then laugh it off as "what they wanted."

[Kazinski]

Nobody in the Trump administration was involved.

Those are career HS employees on security detail reacting to an unknown man shouting while advancing at a cabinet secretary without previously announcing himself. They did exactly as their training would advise, control the situation, verify if there is a theat, then take the appropriate action.

No way should someone shouting they are a senator be allowed to advance to a cabinet secretary without verification.

No way sh

[Malika the Maiz]

You think they didn’t know he was a Senator (whether a Senator in this situation should have acted or been treated differently is another question)?

[Frank Drackman]

He doesn't look like most Senators, in fact, he looks like the guys who clean my Pool

[TwelveInchPianist]

You think Secret Service agents recognize every Senator that lunges at their protectee?

[Sarcastr0]

LUNGES

[TwelveInchPianist]

That's how Noem described it.

And it's consistent with some of the more complete videos, although none of the videos show what happened before he was grabbed.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

The reaction was excessive and if the tables were turned, Republicans and their supporters here would cry foul.

"Padilla said he decided to go to listen to Noem's news conference and asked the National Guard member and FBI agent escorting with him if he could go."

"The folks that were escorting me in the building walked me over. I didn't even open the door. The door was opened for me. And I spent a few minutes in the back of the room just listening in until the rhetoric, the political rhetoric got to be too much to take. So, I spoke up," he later added.

Padilla told MSNBC that he felt he needed to speak out, said he introduced himself and started asking a question before the officers pushed him out of the room as news cameras, reporters and onlookers recorded the incident.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/padilla-pushes-back-noems-claim-barged-news-conference/story?id=122817212

There was not a need to push him on the floor and handcuff him. And Noem was "involved." She could have deescalated the situation.

[Mr. Bumble]

Hearsay.

[Brett Bellmore]

So, everything was fine until he interrupted the designated speaker, you're saying?

[Sarcastr0]

And then it was a huge disaster?

A disruption in a press conference is common occurrence. It’s not generally escalated like this.

But since his original campaign Trump has always liked thuggish force deployed against his perceived enemies.
Now he can do it with police.
And people like you will go all in to support it. And still call yourself a libertarian.

[Brett Bellmore]

And people who deliberately disrupt press conferences being dragged off if they refuse to stop is a common occurrence, too. The only time it's not escalated like this is when the disrupter stops, or it's somebody on a 'liberal' campus disrupting a conservative speaker.

You seem to think your allies are just somehow entitled to do crap like this, just like they're entitled to riot and set shit on fire. They're not, and it's not going to be tolerated.

[Sarcastr0]

They didn't remove him, took him down and cuffed him.
No, that's not normal.

Yes, you are an apologist for state thuggery yet again.

You seem to think your allies are just somehow entitled to do crap like this, just like they're entitled to riot and set shit on fire.
I'm against the deployment of rare levels of disproportional response against the foes of the current administration. Especially when done against opposition politicians.

As for 'entitled to riot and set shit on fire' that's an open lie. I think those are crimes, not revolution or civil war or insurrection. Deploying federal forces against criminal actions is abuse of power. Jackbooted thuggery.

I've been consistent about that for over a decade. So quit lying, and quit being a passionate defender of authoritarianist strongman tactics.

And quit calling yourself a libertarian. Your libertarians for an American Milei shtick is just an embarrassment.

[Magister]

Well, the senator is just lucky there wasn't a gravel pit nearby. He was forced to the ground and handcuffed after he was removed, which took place after he identified himself. The Trump administration has formed the habit of performative arrests at ICE facilities on baseless charges; now extending it to immigration briefings. It seems difficult to imagine that Noem and her staff would not at least recognize the name of the senator.

[Riva]

So, are senators are above the law or is that only democrat senators?

[TwelveInchPianist]

Yeah, Sarcastro thinks people should only be arrested for disrupting events like that if you permit their daughter to be raped in a girls' room first.

Guy doing civil disobedience is treated like people who do civil disobedience.
This is the intended result. It is the price paid since MLK. It is independent of the merit of the message.
Don't pretend this is persecution.

...

He was arrested because he planned to be, it looks like. For the attention.

[Sarcastr0]

This wasn’t civil disobedience. It wasn’t a protest.

Also what the fuck is wrong with you? The quote you pasted says nothing about raping daughters being cool.

God what a rancid thing to claim about me.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Lol. The school board meeting in Loudoun County wasn't civil disobedience or a protest either, dumbass.

If it's not the daughter raping, why such a disparity between your reaction to this guy's arrest and the Senator's?

I guess Brett's not the only apologist for state thuggery, eh?

[Your Public Name Here]

Ukraine attached Russia with drones staged within Russia. Israel did the same to Iran.

How likely is it that the US and it's potential adversaries already have the capability to do use the same tactics against each other?

[tylertusta]

It's certain that most nations and non-nation state actors have the capability to use drones the way that those countries did.

[Brett Bellmore]

I can tell you that most of the funding for my son's FIRST Robotics activities are from defense contractors. They just love those students who have experience throwing together special purpose robots on a shoestring budget and tight schedule, and competing in FIRST Robotics just about guarantees a defense contractor or military job, if you apply.

I assume at least some of that talent they've been cultivating has gone to drones.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Highly likely. That’s why Hegseth fighting the last war will be inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. If the soldiers that fought in the GWOT are happy with Hegseth then that works for me even though Hegseth is clearly an awful human being that is also an idiot…because the next war will be with drones from space.

[Dr. Ed 2]

What are the legal implications of him saying this?
I don't think I would have mentioned "graveyard dead."

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9nAquWgwwbw

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Members of Congress are explicitly privileged from arrest by Article II of the constitution except for treason, felony, or breech of the peace.

I'll pass over the typo that meant "Art. I" since I have them myself.

Padilla stated: "I was forced to the ground and I was handcuffed. I was not arrested. I was not detained.”

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/alex-padilla-immigration-press-conference-noem-b2769116.html

(Either way, it sounds like a type of "seizure" for 4A purposes.)

The Constitution notes:

[Senators and Representatives] shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any speech or debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.

The privilege is limited in scope. It covers "during attendance at the session" as well as "going to and returning."

In interpreting this provision, the Supreme Court has held that the phrase “treason, felony, and breach of the peace” encompasses all criminal offenses. Consequently, Members are only privileged from arrests arising from civil suits, which were common in America at the time the Constitution was ratified.*

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/section-6/clause-1/privilege-from-arrest#fn2art1
https://www.npr.org/2025/06/11/g-s1-72175/mciver-indicted-federal-charges-immigration-new-jersey

Even if "doing official duties" is covered, Padilla is not immune from arrest. If he was somehow involved in a breach of the peace, clearly, he is not immune. Not saying he was.

Rep. LaMonica McIver was recently indicted for consequences of a so-called "tussle at immigration facility" (NPR).

George Santos was a sitting member of Congress when he was indicted. Various members of Congress were arrested.

==

Long v. Ansell: "When the Constitution was adopted, arrests in civil suits were still common in America. It is only to such arrests that the provision applies."

[Dr. Ed 2]

When he crashed his car at 3AM, then Congressman JoeJoeJoe Kennedy said that he was enroute to the capitol for a vote.

He was not arrested.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Patrick Kennedy -- my bad.
https://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/05/kennedy.accident/

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Trump appointed a Kennedy to HHS.

[Frank Drackman]

It's like a rare Genetic condition that Kennedy's drive cars into bodies of water after midnight.

[Kazinski]

Sounds like a Terry stop to me.

"A Terry stop is a police procedure that allows officers to briefly detain an individual based on reasonable suspicion of criminal activity, as established by the Supreme Court case Terry v. Ohio in 1968. This procedure may also involve a limited search, or "frisk," for weapons if the officer believes the individual may be armed."

[Malika the Maiz]

What was the “reasonable suspicion of criminal activity” here?

[Frank Drackman]

Pretty blatant "Mopery" and I'd add "with intent to creep", Impersonating a Human Being, and maybe even "Fugitive from the Board of Health", and seeing the way he threw like a Girl at the Congressional Baseball Game, I'd also charge him with "Impersonating a Baseball Player"

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Tomorrow is Flag Day.

We pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the republic for which it stands. During WWII, West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette protected the right of some schoolchildren not to pledge allegiance to the flag.

They believed doing so violated their religious duty. The six justices of the majority believed it was their "duty to apply the Bill of Rights" to allow the students to choose not to take part.

It is our civic duty to honor the Constitution as well. Some in NYC will begin voting tomorrow for the June primary.

Flags are not mere pieces of fabric. They are symbols. The flag of the U.S. is a symbol of the nation and its principles and power.

People will honor those principles, reflected imperfectly over the centuries, in various ways tomorrow. I wish them well.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Iran is shooting back -- Israel targets the Iranian leaders and nuke plants, Iran targets civilians in Tel Aviv.

And the media doesn't mention this difference...

[Kazinski]

Ehhh, war is war.

I have no sympathy for Iran, but Israel signed up for this.

[Mr. Bumble]

Apparently Iran has launched a counter attack.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14806795/Israelis-warned-bomb-shelters-Iran-missiles.html

[Bob from Ohio]

About 200 missiles. Some hits, most intercepted, thank goodness.

[Michael P]

I am waiting with bated breath for Martinned to excitedly link to ask the euro-law blaggers pointing out how this is a gross violation of the laws of war and how Iran cannot be allowed to target civilians and how there's no continuous state of armed conflict between the two countries.

(No, I'm not really holding my breath for that.)

[Dr. Ed 2]

True, but there is targeting military targets versus targeting civilians.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Iran funds terrorists to strike Israel and so it’s established they don’t follow the Geneva Conventions. That was the whole point of Gitmo and enhanced interrogation. And Israel and America are held to higher standards than their enemies and so that is why Netanyahu is making the most out of the 10/7…and why Bush attempted to make the most out of 9/11. Because Israel has one shot to eliminate its enemies because of 10/7.

[ducksalad]

There's what people claim they are targeting, there's what they actually target, and there's what they actually hit.

Focusing on the first just measures lying and false piety, and the second is generally a military secret. So it's more objective to wait and look at the number of deaths. Specifically the number that are women and children, and the fraction that are women and children.

Yeah, sexist, agist, and not perfectly accurate, but harder to spin and fog than stuff like military age male, human shields, collaborator, etc that will reflexively applied or denied based on no criteria other than which side they were on.

[Commenter_XY]

Iran deliberately (and repeatedly) targeted large civilian population centers. Israel, OTOH, was much more precise in their attacks, Israel did not deliberately target population centers. That is a huge behavioral difference btwn the two.

Israel appears to have air supremacy over Iran. More will happen this evening (it is nearly 3am in the region).

[hobie]

"True, but there is targeting military targets versus targeting civilians."

[sorry, I'm still wiping the tears from all my laughter]...Have you seen Gaza?

[grb]

Kazinski : " ....war is war."

Maybe here's another place to note the 500lb gorilla in the room:

What are the Israeli strikes supposed to accomplish? Over a decade ago, the assumption was bombing might delay the Iran's development of an atomic bomb, but only for 18-24 months. Nothing has changed about that except the Iranians have rigorously prepared for just this military action. Yes, the Israelis may kill some scientists and leaders, but it's pollyanna optimism to believe that radically changes Iran's quickest timeline for a nuclear weapon. And even if it did, the delay will likely be no more than a year and the action itself probably accelerates the regime's commitment to becoming a nuclear power.

Up and down these comments, I see people cheering the spectacle of Israel's action. Perhaps I missed it, but no one seems to be questioning what it will accomplish.

[Mr. Bumble]

"Perhaps I missed it, but no one seems to be questioning what it will accomplish."
Depends upon how far and long it goes on.

[grb]

Mr. Bumble : "Depends upon how far and long it goes on."

Please explain exactly how. The only sure way to prevent Iran from getting the Bomb is to invade the country, arrest its leaders & scientists, and destroy all research. Anything else will only delay, not stop. And if the Iranian's fortified positions work as designed, that delay will be extremely minor. Even if they don't, it's a delay measured in months, not years.

None of these factors are new or difficult to sum-out. They've been discussed forever. You have to be willfully blind to ignore them.

[Mr. Bumble]

What part of how far and how long don't you understand?

[grb]

What part of "please explain exactly how" don't you understand? Of course I ask that knowing you have zero answers.

Thus your response.......

[Magister]

Bumble wants a boot stomping on a human face, forever, as long as the face belongs to people he doesn't like and barely considers human.

[Krayt]

That statement was applied to dictatorships, not defenders against dictatorships, dictatorships like Iran, ruled by people in the process of stepping on a human face, forever.

[Magister]

Hence the qualification about people such as Bumble (and you, apparently) don't like; always have to find some out group to stomp on. Looking from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; how soon before it's impossible to say which is which?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Regeme change would fix things

[grb]

Without question (or mostly without question). But nothing Israel is doing will bring that about.

[Brett Bellmore]

But if you can delay by 18-24 months, and just do it once a year, how does that not get the job done?

[Michael P]

Why are you citing an assertion about "18-24 months" that was produced specifically to justify giving Iran what they wanted?

[grb]

God, what a dimwitted fool you are! Care to address the question above?

[Michael P]

You mean what the Israeli air strikes are supposed to accomplish? You already showed that you know what they will accomplish, and that is why you pulled out the frivolous assertion I objected to.

[Frank Drackman]

sort of like we did trying to kill Bid Laden in 1998? I get it.

[SRG2]

As a Zionist who despises Netanyahu and his cohorts, I have to say, what did Iran expect? You spend 30 years or more calling for Israel's destruction, you have no other natural enemies - and wouldn't have Israel as one if you hadn't made them one, and you're building a nuclear bomb in violation of international agreements, and you know that Israel has a power-crazed crook as PM supported by the US's own power-crazed bigger crook. - perhaps cooling your jets might have been a better strategy.

[Mr. Bumble]

If it keeps up they might not have any jets to cool.
Wondering, does Khamenei feel safe?

[Commenter_XY]

One wonders if that Iranian council of mullahs can 'fire' the ayatollah, and replace him.

[Mr. Bumble]

Who will want the job?

[hobie]

As I said above, I too welcome the destruction of Iran's nuclear capability. Like the Iranians, Gazans, Israelis, Americans...we are all of us self-interested savages. And none should have the power to wipe out entire swaths of Alabama

[Kazinski]

The judge issued an order for Mahmoud Khalil to be released from custody based on the Rubio's determination that his presence was.detrimental. to US foreign policy.

But the administration refused to release him, citing "other grounds" that the judge has no jurisdiction to address. Namely lying on his Greencard application.

https://www.axios.com/2025/06/13/trump-admin-refuses-to-release-mahmoud-khalil-despite-judges-order

[Dr. Ed 2]

Whatever --- the FBI loves to prosecute people for lying to them.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

That's not what the Axios story says now...

[Mr. Bumble]

Don't keep us in suspense. What does it say?

[Kazinski]

Which is funny, considering Axios still has its spin below in anticipation of the Judge coming down on them:

"Reality check: Judge Michael Farbiarz explicitly refuted this argument in his initial injunction.

"The evidence is that lawful permanent residents are virtually never detained pending removal for the story of alleged omissions in a lawful-permanent-resident application that the Petitioner is charged with here," Farbiarz wrote.
"That strongly suggests that it is the Secretary of State's determination that drives the Petitioner's ongoing detention --- not the other charge against him."

But you are right, that's not what was in the story when I posted it there was a significant rewrite after the judge ruled on the motion allowing them to keep Khalil in custody.

[apedad]

BREAKING: In an insane moment, Donald Trump claims that Vladimir Putin lost 51 million people in WWII "and he did fight," delusional remarks to a room stunned into complete silence by his cognitive collapse.

[Frank Drackman]

Which one of Barry Hussein Osama's 57 States was he in when he said that? Did he call anyone a Dog Faced Pony Soldier? But let's say you're right, you really want JD in there?

[Michael P]

Clearly, the 51 million lost people were repatriated to the seven bonus states, which is why they cannot be found today.

[Malika the Maiz]

What’s it called when a fictional character is reduced to a decades old whataboutism? And when Mikie P can only riff off the same?

The Mad King is putting his most loyal servants in bad spots.

[Jmaie]

I can't understand why you bother with Frank. It's like how Sarcastro can't help but respond to all of Brett's posts. Brett is a self proclaimed autistic, to argue with him is as useful as pissing into the wind.

Frankly, I would love for you to post under two different accounts, one for serious and one for trolling Frank. Your serious posts are thoughtful and interesting, the trolling posts are bad enough I usually have you muted. Unfortunately, the trolling posts seem to be a large majority, so I mute, then I miss out on the good stuff.

Cheers.

[Malika the Maiz]

People like the writer of the Frank Fakeman character are a small but not insignificant part of Trump’s base. Ignoring these weirdos does no good, humiliating them though might.

Also, it’s pathetically funny, as if George Castanza were posting here under Art Van Der Lay. Healthy people and a healthy community would point out that and laugh him out of here.

[David Nieporent]

Ignoring these weirdos does no good, humiliating them though might.

1) No, it won't.
2) You're not humiliating them; you're humiliating yourself.

[Mr. Bumble]

Queenie has a long history of humiliating "her" self.

[Malika the Maiz]

Weirdo losers like the writer of the Frank Fakeman character are a significant part of MAGA, he’s enticed them into the open when they were usually laughed to the margins of society. They need that now, high brow ignoring them hasn’t and won’t work. Read Black Pill by Elle Reeves.

[Frank Drackman]

re: Art Van Der lay, Ironically, I considered Auburns Architecture program, but only a few of the courses were in the Pre-Med curriculum, and the Poultry Science Professor told me the job prospects were way better in the Chicken Industry (You design a building it's there for decades at least, a Bucket of KFC?? maybe a few hours)

Frank "One Word: Spicy Chicken Sandwich"

[Malika the Maiz]

Fake Person’s autobiography fact of the day!

[Michael P]

Queenie already has multiple amounts, but under your approach only the trolling one would ever get used. Perhaps this is why "Malika" (without "the Maiz") is so rarely seen.

[SRG2]

It doesn't matter how evident Trump's cognitive collapse is, the cultists will respond, "buf Biden..." which at one level is not unreasonable, but at another, does not address the current problem.

[Frank Drackman]

I wouldn't mind "45/47" stepping down and JD taking over, but not until January 21, 2027 so he can serve out the rest of "45/47"'s second term and 2 more full terms.
Wait! what am I saying? not until January 21, 2031, you know, 2 years and 1 day into 45/47/48's 3rd term.

Frank

[grb]

apedad : "Donald Trump claims that Vladimir Putin lost 51 million people in WWII"

Trump's brain has pretty much rotted down to the consistency of worm-ridden mush. You see that all the time, but particularly when he's talking about Russia and his Daddy (Putin). Then his little heart starts beating wildly with excitement and Trump loses what little grasp of reality he has left. Here's another one from a few days ago:

Trump: "Russia fought with us in WWII and everybody hates them. And Germany and Japan, they're fine — some day somebody will explain that...Everybody hates Russia and they love Germany and Japan...It's a strange world."

Without question. When your brain is completely shot, it's a strange world indeed. Maybe one of those people who create the comic books for his national security briefing can also do a coloring book on twentieth century history. Given lots of pictures and a handful of crayons, it just might (temporarily) take hold.

[David Nieporent]

your brain is completely shot, it's a strange world indeed

Hey, he's still pondering the confusing world of the word "groceries."

[Frank Drackman]

Looks like the Ear-Ronians shot down an Israeli F35 with a Chick Pilot, I'm sure she'll get all her Geneva Convention Rights. If I was Net n' Yahoo this would be my offer.
1: the Pilot is returned within 24 hrs, unarmed.
2: You will allow an El Al Jet and it's Fighter Escort to land at Iman Khomeni International Airport (IKA) to return the Pilot to Israel, and oh
3: 4,000,000 Shekels in Gold (about $1,000,000) will be delivered with the pilot as compensation for the shot down F35, 1 standard 400 Oz Gold Bar will suffice, we'll give you the change in your worthless Rials
4: If these conditions are not met, bad Hydrogen bad Bomb bad Hydrogen bad Bomb things will happen

Frank

[Bob from Ohio]

"Ear-Ronians shot down an Israeli F35 with a Chick Pilot"

Maybe, but the picture all the Ear-Ronian simps are sending around is from a crash in New Mexico in 2024 or so.

[Frank Drackman]

That sounds about right, shame on me for believing the Marxist Stream Media

[Malika the Maiz]

Fictional character written getting upset by fictional event, then questioning fictions. So meta!

[Frank Drackman]

Fictional homosexual character continuously responding to character he declares (ad nauseum I might add) is a Fictional character, So "Cis"!!!!
I don't know what "Meta" means, and I refuse to Google it (well I'm Fictional, so I would be Fictionally Googling it)

Frank

[hobie]

Israel is just a proxy welfare state of the US. We'll supply the ransom and the new fighter jet, so why bother Iran with it all? So the Hasidim can go back to laying around and sponging worse than my current neighbors.

Geneva Conventions:

"The Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols, specifically Protocol I, prohibit the deliberate or indiscriminate attack of civilians and civilian objects, including area bombardment. Attacks must be directed solely against military objectives, and civilians and civilian objects must be spared."

Why should Iran adhere to it when Israel doesn't?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

If Iran has signed up to it, they should adhere to it regardless of what Israel does.

(However, it appears that Iran has never ratified Protocol I.)

[Frank Drackman]

Why should anyone adhere to it? We sure didn't/don't

[Krayt]

There's a picture of a shot down F35 being pushed. Sadly, it was an accident from 2 years ago. Is that the same claim?

[Kazinski]

Trump-flation continues to disappoint, the Producer Price index, which is a leading indicator of CPI, came in low today at 0.1%, less than the predicted 0.2.

"Prices for final demand less foods, energy, and trade services edged up 0.1 percent in May after falling 0.1 percent in April. For the 12 months ended in May, the index for final demand less foods, energy, and trade services increased 2.7 percent."

The cumulative monthly producer price index for February-May (which isn't technically the way you aggregate it, but its a decent estimate) is -0.1%.

The last 4 months of the Biden Administration, Oct-Jan, was 1.6%.

Here's the data.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ppi.nr0.htm

[Malika the Maiz]

After DOGE and other efforts how reliable can these kind of numbers under the Trump administration be trusted?

[Kazinski]

That's a good question, I am glad you asked.

There are private realtime inflation monitors that use prices that are collected out side government channels to monitor inflation.

Here is one: https://truflation.com/

Really, its not like people don't know what the major inputs to producer prices are, like labor and energy costs and can't do an independent sanity check in the numbers.

And here is the Cleveland Fed bank.

https://www.clevelandfed.org/indicators-and-data/inflation-nowcasting

[Commenter_XY]

The grasping at straws by the progtards is hilarious. It is like Lucy and the football with these people.

[bernard11]

"progtards."

You know, I recall when good economic numbers were coming out under Obama and then Biden, there were lots of allegations that they were phony, manufactured by the Administration.

And when bad numbers came out under Trump, those same RW nutjobs claimed they too were phony, manufactured by the "deep state" to make Trump look bad.

If you want to look for strawgraspers, start there.

[Kazinski]

I agree with you.

There was some carping about that last year when BLS revised down the jobs number by 800k, which was a huge amount considering its a 5x higher than most monthly numbers.

818000 Fewer Jobs Added to the Economy than Previously Reported
Aug 21, 2024 — Today's BLS jobs revision showed that the economy had 818,000 fewer jobs (as of March 2024) than previously estimated – with all of this net ....

But if its political are you going to announce it 2 1/2 months before the election?

And there are literally armies of people in banks and wall street, and state governments that are looking for and collecting their own data because having it earlier than the government reports provides an edge, like the inflation sites above, or the ADP Employment report.

[Frank Drackman]

Love the "Except for Gasoline, most prices haven't come down that much!"

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Posting on his social media platform, Truth Social, early Friday, Trump urged Iran to agree to a nuclear deal “before there is nothing left,” suggesting that subsequent Israeli attacks on the country could be “even more brutal.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/12/middleeast/israel-iran-strikes-intl-hnk

Why should they? They saw what happened in the past:

Ironically, Trump himself paved the way to this war by trashing the 2015 nuclear deal concluded by the UN Security Council with Iran, which effectively blocked Iran from ever militarizing its program. Iran faithfully adhered to its prescriptions until 2019, a year after Trump tore up the treaty and placed “maximum pressure” sanctions on Iran. Had the 2015 deal remained in place, it is difficult to imagine the Security Council putting up with Netanyahu’s military adventurism, which might have attracted serious sanctions.

https://www.juancole.com/2025/06/netanyahu-launches-negotiations.html

Marco "the sane pick" Rubio assured the world that the U.S. was not involved in the strikes. I question how much the world trusts the integrity of our official statements. Also:

[Netanyahu] pointedly thanked Trump in his address to the nation, clearly hoping that Iran might take some action against America in response and so draw Trump into a war he clearly does not want.

Israel going on bombing raids is not a grand nuclear weapon deterrence strategy even if we think the results here are net positives. Then, a lot going on in the Middle East is not ideal.

[Commenter_XY]

Israel going on bombing raids is not a grand nuclear weapon deterrence strategy...

I don't see other countries in the region 'rushing' to acquire nukes. Quite the opposite.

As for Iran, time is starting to run out. They are the goat about to be sacrificed. Their air defenses are gone; Israel has air supremacy. Tehran will now hear bombs dropping daily, and see more generals dying daily. Iran will now feel the consequences of their malignant ideology and actions directly.

The people of Iran know what to do to end the madness.

[tylertusta]

Two Minnesota state lawmakers were shot in apparent "targeted" incidents on Saturday that left them in grave condition, officials said, and a manhunt is now underway for the gunman.

A source familiar with the matter tells ABC News that the victims are state Sen. John Hoffman and state Rep. Melissa Hortman.

Both were shot at their homes and authorities believe the shooter was impersonating law enforcement, the source said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-minnesota-lawmakers-shot-apparent-132200147.html?guccounter=1

Despicable. Hope they find the culprit and throw him in prison forever. Such an act is worthy of the death penalty, but MN abolished it a century ago.

[Malika the Maiz]

Number of people killed in LA “rebellion: 0
Number of people killed by right wing gunman in Minneapolis suburbs: 2

National Guard time?

[Kazinski]

Right wingers don't shoot people who vote for ending government paid healthcare for illegals.

At least not the sane ones.

[Brett Bellmore]

It's a heinous crime, the perpetrator is right wing by default, until proven otherwise by absolutely incontrovertible evidence. [/sarc]

[Magister]

Two Democratic legislators shot, and apparently a list of other legislators. We don't know the motivation of this shooter, but we do know that most politically motivated violence is from the right. A rather more reasonable conclusion than the usual Brett Bellmore conspiracy theory.

[Michael P]

"The problem ain't the things you don't know, but the things you know that just ain't so." - variously worded and attributed

But I suppose you have some definition of "politically motivated violence" that excludes all the riots, attempts to shoot Congressional softball practices, etc.

[Magister]

Funny that you have to go back eight years to a Bernie supporter shooting a Republican congressman. Maybe you heard about the January 6th insurrection in 2021? Bernie Sanders condemned that first one; Trump expressed his love for the insurrectionists.

A couple links supporting my claim:
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-politics-violence/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9335287/

[Frank Drackman]

I'd mention Luigi Mangione, but you're probably representing him and can't comment.

[Sarcastr0]

It's one thing to withhold judgement. Laudable, even.

It's another to immediately dive into speculation it's totally the reverse and then No True Scotsmaning.

Shows a fragile mind, unable to allow any impurity in their simplistic worldview.

[Mr. Bumble]

The one diving into speculation was Queenie.

[Kazinski]

Well go ahead and clutch your pearls.

Something like this happens and its natural to speculate.

[Sarcastr0]

Maybe in private. But you posted in public how if you squint it may still be the libs after all.

That's not natural; that's pathetic.

[Kazinski]

Its not squinting when she was all over the news for a controversial vote 3 days ago.

It maybe off base, but its certainly not squinting.

As for "posted in public", you should see what is going on on X.

[Magister]

Sure, shooter got his police cosplay going in only three days, and shot another politician who voted against the repeal to cover his Kazinski approved motivation. Totally not squinting.

[Kazinski]

We should know in a day or two then you can call me out on it.

Police reportedly have identified who they think the shooter is, but not publicly. So even if they don't catch him right away, they will identify him as a person of interest.

We already know it was politically motivated, even if it was a lunatic politics had to be at least a factor. So its at worst a coin flip as to which side, because I'm ruling out a raging moderate.

[Magister]

Calling you out now on your rush to judgement, which is not consistent with either the information so far or overall trends.

Updated: apparently the list of targets in the shooter's car included abortion providers and pro-abortion rights advocates.

[Kazinski]

Yeah, now that he's been identified as an appointee of noted Right Winger Tim Walz, I have of course learned my lesson on premature speculation.

Mark Dayton the previous DFL governor also appointed him to the same board:
"Because of the special trust and confidence I have in your integrity, judgment, and ability, I have appointed and commissioned you to have and to hold the office of Business Member Governor’s Workforce Development Board,”
signed Mark Dayton

Of course he may have had his own axe to grind:

Governor Tim Walz labeled the shooting a “politically motivated assassination,” and authorities recovered a manifesto naming both Democrat and Republican lawmakers as targets. The shooter, dressed as a police officer, struck both homes in the early hours of Saturday morning. The attacks come amid rising political tensions and coincide with the now-canceled “No Kings” protests planned in Minneapolis."

[Bwaaah]

Malika:

Number of people killed in LA “rebellion": 0
Number of people killed by right wing gunman in Minneapolis suburbs: 2

Alternatively:

Number of civilians battling law enforcement in LA? 500+
Number of civilians battling law enforcement in Minneapolis: 1 (if you want too look at it that way)

Thousands across the country today are expected to participate in "protests" sympathetic to lawbreaking LA street thugs. Queenie's reaction, like that of the American Left, is to feign yawning.

Keep that yawn going, Queenie, while images of mainly peaceful protests go out to the world. I'll be thinking of you.

[Magister]

You forgot to list the much larger number of Trump administration people attacking the constitution.

[Michael P]

Yours was not a serious comment. Probably because you are not a serious person. The Trump administration has a much better track record in court than the rioters. It also has a better informal record than leftists like Sen. Alex Padilla (treated with kid gloves after trying to rush the podium when Kristi Noem was speaking), Sen. Bernie Sanders (twitted for a second American Revolution), LA City Council member Imelda Padilla (presumably no relation; asked the local police to obstruct justice by breaking state and federal law), and so on.

[Magister]

Trump administration has a pretty bad record in the courts, despite the partisan makeup of the Supreme Court. I don't know what court cases the rioters have been involved in; if you mean ones in LA, I doubt those have actually made it to court this quickly.

[ThePublius]

"Number of people killed in LA “rebellion: 0
Number of people killed by right wing gunman in Minneapolis suburbs: 2

National Guard time?"

Oh, screw you, Malika the Maiz, you don't know, couldn't have known when you posted this, whether the Minnesota shooter was right wing or not. It turns out he's probably left; he was a Gov. Walz appointee. So shut up with your B.S.

[Frank Drackman]

I know I'm asking a fictional character about an actual event
"Right Wing Gunman"??
I guess you could consider Ham-Ass or the other Moose-lum, Terrorist groups "Right Wing", but they haven't caught Moe-Hammad-Kareem-Abdulla-Ramma-Llama-Ding-Dong yet, so how do you know he's "Right Wing"?? you got inside information?
and being Minn-A-Soda, just as likely to be one of your Tranny Progressives, or maybe even a Luigi Mangione copycat, these State Representatives get big bucks from Big Pharma/Insurance

Frank

[Kazinski]

Two things, one, the similarities in their names is striking, when I first say their names on X I thought they might be married then I looked closer.

"Minnesota State Representative Melissa Hortman and Minnesota State Senator John Hoffman are shown in these undated file photos"

Second Melissa Hoffman was the sole Democrat in the House to vote on ending state Medicaid for illegals. And she was featured prominently in this news report about the vote on June 10th, just a few days ago.

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/minnesota-legislature-undocumented-immigrant-health-care-minnesotacare/

I am not tying her vote to the shooting, yet, but it does seem to be more than coincidence that she was featured prominently, for a controversial vote, on the news 3 days before a targeted shooting.

[Sarcastr0]

I am not tying her vote to the shooting, yet, but

Sure, chief.

[Frank Drackman]

I'm trying to do you a favor, like when someone tells you your fly's open.
Using "Chief" marks you as a Douche, and a dated one, as it was dated when I first heard it in 1998, it's in the same Ballpark as "Back in the Day" but worse,
Got that, Kimo Sabe?

Frank

[Kazinski]

As more details come out, I have to admit my speculation about one thing is wrong.

The similarity in their names was probably not a factor, it likely had more to do with their houses being only 5 minutes apart.

But I don't think Hortman being first on the list was coincidence, maybe Hoffman was 2nd because of proximity.

[Kazinski]

Another clue has dropped, "No Kings" "flyers" were found in the suspects car. But they don't actually look like flyers, they look like hand written protest signs. All they say is "No Kings" in block letters.

That's pretty standard in right wing circles I guess.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/minnesota-shootings-manhunt-06-14-25

[Michael P]

How many right-wingers get appointed by Tim Walz to the Governor’s Workforce Development Board?

https://nypost.com/2025/06/14/us-news/suspect-in-deadly-minnesota-shootings-identified-as-vance-luther-boelter/

(Boelter was previously appointed to a similar position by Walz's DFL predecessor.)

[Kazinski]

Well we will know soon, or never know, because police are in possession of his manifesto.

Reportedly after the first reported shooting Hortman, I think, the local police decided to drive by the other local legislators house, and found the fake cop, his fake police car, and exchanged gunfire with him and he escaped out the back of the house.

"Authorities say Champlin police first responded to Hoffman's home, with Brooklyn Park police assisting. A Brooklyn Park police sergeant is said to have proactively decided to check on lawmakers in their city.

When officers arrived at Hortman's home at about 3:30 a.m., authorities say they saw what appeared to be a police SUV with emergency lights on. The suspect then exited Hortman's home and exchanged gunfire with officers before fleeing on foot."

He left his car and reportedly left a manifesto in the car, and there was a list of other legislators.

And sure a little wild speculation, you can call me on it later. I'm not 100% infallible.

And Hoffman and his wife are expected to survive, Hoffman and her husband are dead.

[Kazinski]

That should be Hortman and her husband are dead. (shows how similar the names are, spellchecker changed it to Hoffman).

[Michael P]

Just a Dem doing classic Dem things in the US House of Representatives: https://x.com/EricLDaugh/status/1933247870125420940