Monday Open Thread

What's on your mind?

Comments

[not guilty]

On Sunday I ran across two profiles of Doug Wilson, whom I was not previously familiar with, who is said to be gaining some traction with the MAGA cult. Mr. Wilson is a self-described proponent of "Christian theocracy" — the (oxymoronic, IMO) idea that American society, including its government, should be governed by a conservative interpretation of Biblical law.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/05/23/doug-wilson-new-right-pastor-hegseth-trump-officials-00355376

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/an-outspoken-christian-nationalist-pastor-expands-his-sway-in-trumps-dc

According to Politico:

Wilson has floated some more fundamental changes to America’s political system: Amending the Constitution to include reference to the Apostles’ Creed, restricting office holding to practicing Christians and changing voting practices to award votes by household, with the default vote-holder being the male head of the household. His long-term goal, he said, is to inspire a grassroots Christian reformation that would excise the whole idea of secularism from American law and society.

Talking Points Memo reports that:

Idaho pastor Douglas Wilson can be provocative. He once wrote that “slavery produced in the South a genuine affection between the races.” He’s said that “sodomy” is worse than “slavery”; abortion, he’s written, is “as great an evil as slavery” due to what he sees as its ability to spark a civil war. He told me last year that he regards the American state as the “biggest blasphemer” of them all.

But beneath the provocations is a vision of a remade — and Christianized — America: One in which the government aggressively promotes and enact the preferences of the evangelical right.

I cannot help but wonder about the "Christian" bona fides of anyone who would enmesh his own (self-serving) version of religion with the American government. Jesus the Christ said to Pontius Pilate, "My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight, that I might not be handed over to the Jews; but my kingship is not from the world." John 18:36 (RSV). Contrary to what too many Republicans seem to believe, Jesus is not such a weenie that he needs help from Caesar.

Can any two historical figures be more dissimilar that Jesus the Christ and Donald Trump?

[I quit Reason in about 4 weeks]

Trump's wife is Catholic. How can you not know that?
Vance is Catholic.

[not guilty]

I knew about J.D. Vance (a/k/a James Donald Bowman, a/k/a James David Hamel) converting to Catholicism at age 35. For a father of young children to voluntarily affiliate with the most notorious enabler of pederasty in the history of the world reflects rank moral idiocy, but what in the world does that have to do with what I wrote upthread?

I had never inquired about Melania Trump's religion, but with her being from Eastern Europe I am not surprised. Again, what does that have to do with what I wrote upthread?

[Mr. Bumble]

I think you have confused Catholics with public school teachers.

[not guilty]

Please refresh my memory, Mr. Bumble. Which public school teachers or school districts have paid out billions of dollars in damage awards and settlements from failing to keep their personnel out of little boys' pants?

[Frank Drackman]

the Poudre Colorado School District just settled with 10 students families, 16.2 million Somolians, got this from Colorado Pubic Radio so take it with a grain of salt.

[Michael Ejercito]

Link is here.

https://www.cpr.org/2025/05/15/poudre-school-district-bus-child-abuse-settlement/

[mike petrik]

Most are protected by sovereign immunity, you fool.

[TwelveInchPianist]

There's currently a scandal going on at Columbine High School (yes, that Columbine) where the staff conspired to groom a student and get her falsely declared homeless so she could move in with a teacher.

When the mom reported the misconduct to the principal, the principal told her that the teacher "helps kids navigate their sexuality."

[mike petrik]

If only they let public school teachers marry.

[Nelson]

The false equivalency between one example and a century or more of organized pedophilia is ridiculous, even for the resident religious apologists here.

[mike petrik]

As scandalous and awful as the Church’s scandals have been, your description is still rubbish. Moreover, if you’d bother to research the matter you would know that the US public school system has a far worse record. Media bias is one reason you aren’t aware of this, and another is the lack of publicity from lawsuits since public schools are generally protected by sovereign immunity. But carry on. Bigots will bigot.

[Joe_dallas]

concur
As bad as the catholic church has been with the pedophile priests, the pedophilia in schools, ymca, boy scouts , girls scouts, etc is bad, just not as bad as the the catholic church. Pedophiles naturally gravitate to where the have access to children.

The problem is just not limited to the catholic church

[CountmontyC]

Magister yes they did.
Here is an example where the school covered up the crime for decades

https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/crime_courts/2017/03/22/keith-bryan-desert-sands/99012698/

And another

[Nelson]

“ The problem is just not limited to the catholic church”

Agreed, although the conservative assault on teachers is false equivalence and bad math, since the rate of sexual abuse rate by teachers is significantly lower than most child-oriented organizations.

That said, the Catholic Church is the most egregious, but certainly not the only, example of organized institutional coverups by religious organizations. They are worse for several reasons, with the two biggest being:

1) They hold themselves out to be moral organizations, yet dozens, if not hundreds, of these “moral” people conspire to hide and relocate pedophiles into unsuspecting communities while lying about the reasons for the relocation and lying to investigators and the parents of victims. Apparently the Commandment is “Thou shalt not lie … unless it makes your church look bad. Then cover it up.”.

And:
2) It is an organized, coordinated, institutional effort to thwart the discovery and prosecution of clergy members who have sexually abused children. There is a intentional effort by those at the very top of religious organizations, with multiple people being brought in to assist, to deny, obscure, gaslight, and lie to their own parishioners to hide the offense.

The Southern Baptists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Amish, Methodists, Anglicans, Mormons, Episcopalians, and (obviously) Catholics have gotten caught knowingly preventing the identification and prosecution of pedophile clergy members.

If you claim to be moral, then do immoral things for immoral people while gaslighting the victims and their families, as an institutional policy, you are the worst of the worst.

You don’t even find superintendents of school districts acting like that. But the Pope? Yup, every one knew and helped. Cardinals? Check. Archbishops? Same. Bishops? Them, too. Every level knew and helped.

[Malika the Maiz]

The US public school system is not a single organization, is it?

[mike petrik]

Sure, but the studies were national. Don’t be lazy, look them up! And the vast majority are protected from lawsuits by sovereign immunity.

[Magister]

Schools didn't move pedophile employees from one place to another to cover up their wrongdoing, though.

[CountmontyC]

Magister yes they did.

And more examples of schools ignoring the issues

https://nypost.com/2024/11/18/us-news/tiktok-exposes-pedophile-teachers-at-oregon-school-after-alleged-coverup/

https://www.andersonadvocates.com/blog/from-a-schoolteacher-to-a-convicted-pedophile-the-story-of-mark-berndt/

I can find dozens of examples if need be.

[Magister]

A lot of individual cases, but observe that there are millions of teachers and fewer than 50 thousand priests in the US. Observe that priests are less likely to have as many coworkers as public school teachers; that priests were traditionally granted much greater respect and authority than teachers; that sexual abuse by priests is much less likely to be reported; and that the coverups and reassignments were by a global authority. And still nobody has provided evidence that settlements by public schools total anything like the many billions the Catholic Church has paid.

[CountmontyC]

More

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/protecting-children-from-sexual-abuse/202305/educator-sexual-misconduct-remains-prevalent-in

https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1336&context=jj_etds

[hobie]

I think Vance switched religions just a little bit after the fifth Catholic joined the Supreme Court

[not guilty]

That timeline is correct. Whether one event had anything to do with the other, who knows?

The Catholics appointed to the Court were Clarence Thomas (1991), John Roberts (2005), Samuel Alito (2006), Sonia Sotomayor (2009), Brett Kavanaugh (2018) and Amy Coney Bear It (2020). Niel Gorsuch was reared Catholic, but later joined an Episcopal Church.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Episcopal might as well be Catholic, it's largely a difference without a difference.

[mike petrik]

The ignorance of this site’s ultracrepidarian commentariat is risibly breathtaking.

[Brett Bellmore]

I think this pretty much is the conservative Christian reaction to Christian nationalism.

"Can any two historical figures be more dissimilar that Jesus the Christ and Donald Trump?"

While they're wildly different, sure. How about Pol Pot? Stalin?

Donald Trump is hardly the most moral or godly guy around, (On an absolute scale, saints are pretty rare.) but the amount of room available to be worse than Trump is staggering, and fairly well populated, too.

[A Woman of No Importance]

Nice deflection, which I've noticed you're good at.

The point is that it's really ironic that conservative Christianity has so thoroughly embraced MAGA even though its policies are about as far removed from what Jesus taught as one can imagine. Just to take one, obvious example, immigration.

In Matthew 25, at the judgment on the last day, the nations are judged as nations. Jesus says to those on his left, "Depart from me, ye wicked, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was a stranger, and you did not take me in." Then shall they say to him, "When were you a stranger and we took you not in? And Jesus shall reply, "As you did it to the least of these my brethren, so ye did it unto me." How to square that with Trump's immigration policies is beyond me. The same passage, by the way, condemns nations who did not feed the hungry. And it explicitly says these are national judgments, not personal judgments.

I don't see how you square Trump's wealth transfers to the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class with Jesus' statement that it shall be easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle than for the rich to enter the kingdom of God. The Bible has a lot to say about the wealthy, most of it not very nice: "Weep and howl, ye rich, for the misery that shall come upon you." (James). "As the lion devours the wild ass, so do the rich eat up the poor." (Proverbs).

I don't see how one squares Trump's environmental policies with the Biblical commandment that humans are to take care of the planet.

The list goes on and on. That this administration, with its anti-Christian policies, has been so embraced by the Christian church is just incredible to me.

[Brett Bellmore]

It's a "deflection" to answer a question, now?

You'll notice that I expressly denied that Trump was a good man. The actual question I was answering was, "Can any two historical figures be more dissimilar that Jesus the Christ and Donald Trump?".

And I think that the answer is a resounding "Yes!" is absurdly obvious. While Trump is not a good man, as I said, the amount of room available to be a worse man is immense, and well populated, too.

[Armchair]

Indeed.

[Commenter_XY]

They have nothing to argue, except irrelevancies.

[Dr. Ed 2]

We elected Trump to be our President not our minister.

[A Woman of No Importance]

And before anybody what abouts Obama and Biden on immigration, please be reminded that the subject of this thread is not immigration, but rather how the conservative, evangelical wing of the Christian church came to support an administration with such anti-biblical policies. Did the conservative, evangelical church give its enthusiastic support to Obama and Biden? No? Then Obama and Biden aren't relevant to the subject we're actually discussing.

[not guilty]

The most personally devout president of my lifetime was Jimmy Carter, whose term of office history does not regard favorably. Far and away the most vile is Donald Trump, who as another commenter here quite colorfully put it, regards the seven deadly sins as a to do list. Considering that Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson are also on that list, that says something awful about Trump.

Then-Governor Carter attracted a fair amount of evangelical support during his 1976 run for President. Things turned sour, however, when the IRS took away the tax exempt status of Bob Jones University along with numerous primary and secondary segregated private schools. (One of the most notorious of these was founded by the old time segregationist Jerry Falwell, Sr., who played a major role in mobilizing the seggers and Ku Kluckers to support the Republican Party.)

[Michael Ejercito]

What is anti-biblical about immigration policy?

[not guilty]

How differently would history have turned out if a Make Egypt Great Again cabal had sent Mary, Joseph and Jesus back to King Herod?

[Michael Ejercito]

Who was the Pharaoh at the time?

[GreenLanternCorps]

Egypt was a Roman Province, Judea was a Roman protectorate. It was not treated as an international border.

Mary and Joseph did not travel to Persia, they stayed within the Empire, roughly the equivalent of traveling from Florida to Puerto Rico.

[A Woman of No Importance]

I already told you in my previous post. Here it is a second time:

In Matthew 25, at the judgment on the last day, the nations are judged as nations. Jesus says to those on his left, "Depart from me, ye wicked, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was a stranger, and you did not take me in." Then shall they say to him, "When were you a stranger and we took you not in? And Jesus shall reply, "As you did it to the least of these my brethren, so ye did it unto me." How to square that with Trump's immigration policies is beyond me. The same passage, by the way, condemns nations who did not feed the hungry. And it explicitly says these are national judgments, not personal judgments.

[Michael Ejercito]

And it explicitly says these are national judgments, not personal judgments.
That is quite a creative reading of Matthew 25.

Can you explain that to Laken Riley and AJ Wise?

[A Woman of No Importance]

So because the guards at Auschwitz were Germans, all Germans should be punished for it? That's your Laken Riley rationale. As for being a creative interpretation, here is the text word for word:

"When the Son of Man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. And before him shall be gathered *all nations* and he shall separate them one from another as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. . . . Then shall he say also unto the ones on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. . . . For I was a stranger and you took me not in. . . . Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee . . . a stranger . . and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as you did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me." Matthew 25:31-45. Emphasis on "all nations*; these are national judgments.

[mike petrik]

Ah, who would have guessed you were a Scriptural literalist! LOL. Most Christians understand that while the Bible must always be taken seriously, it should not always be taken literally. Catholics understand the passage as describing the judgment of individuals of all nations, not nations as such. I suspect most of my Protestant brethren benefit from a similar exegesis. The Greek word translated into “nations” actually means “peoples” or simply “Gentiles.” God will judge and separate individuals, not herds.

[Malika the Maiz]

Peoples and Gentiles are groups, right?

[A Woman of No Importance]

I'm actually not a Biblical literalist, but a lot of conservative Christians are. I was raised by young earth creationists who believe that Noah's ark was an actual historical event.

And my comments are not directed toward what is the best interpretation of the Bible, but rather all the people who hold to that interpretation who voted for Trump. It's as if a bunch of Muslims voted for a candidate who favored mandatory consumption of pork. I wouldn't have to agree with Muslim dietary restrictions to wonder what on earth they were thinking.

[Noscitur a sociis]

And it explicitly says these are national judgments, not personal judgments.

I don’t think that’s correct. The Greek word you’re translating below as “nations” is “ ἔθνη” (i.e. a neuter noun) while the word you’re translating as “them” is “αὐτοὺς” (i.e. masculine plural). Grammatically, I think the separation has to be of the human constituents of the nations from one another, not the nations themselves.

[Kazinski]

"how the conservative, evangelical wing of the Christian church came to support an administration with such anti-biblical policies."

Oh that one is easy: the Democrats were the only alternative.

[Michael Ejercito]

Yes, they are anti-Christian.

[David Nieporent]

They were not.

[A Woman of No Importance]

The Democrats were not the only alternative, and even if they had been, "see what you made me do" is a tired excuse that no parent accepts from a toddler. At the end of the day, evangelical Christians voted for the party with thoroughly unbiblical and unChristian principles, and they can't shift the blame for having done it on anyone else.

[Kazinski]

Well not only that we (well I am an atheist) are happy we did.

So we aren't looking for someone to blame.

We voted for this, and would do it all over again without hesitation.

[A Woman of No Importance]

We'll see if you still feel that way in four years. In the meantime, the point of my comment is people who say they voted for Trump but had no choice because the other candidate was even worse. The answer to that is yes, you did have a choice and don't go blaming someone or something else for the choice that you made.

[Kazinski]

Well we were frustrated in the first four years at the lack of fundamental changes.

We did get the tax cuts, which we will now keep. Some good judges. But not much in the way of serious cuts and reform in the bureaucracy.

Hopefully we will get more this term.

[A Woman of No Importance]

Oh, you'll get more all right, and like I said, we'll see if you still feel that way in four years.

[Sarcastr0]

You not only voted for it, you will ignore all the corruption you need to in order to get to...what goal is it again?

Oh yeah, "Burn it all down." All meaning the government.

Really shows why you don't need standards, since you're an angry childish nihilist at heart.

[Kazinski]

That's kind of weird corruption, building and running a golf course in Vietnam or Dubai.

Where is the payoff?

The only payoff is if they run it successfully and make a profit. And it probably neither one will be finished until he is out of office again.

Now I don't doubt he got some favorable treatment, probably at least 2/3 of which was not having to pay any bribes for approvals.

[David Nieporent]

While they're wildly different, sure. How about Pol Pot? Stalin?

No; they're actually quite similar to Donald Trump.

[Armchair]

That appears to be your TDS showing again. They have a cure for that.

[Joe_dallas]

lots of similarity there

pol pot genocide 1.5 million +
stalin genocide 8+ million
Trump genocide - 0- zero

yep lots of similarity - At least in DN mind

[Riva]

I would never presume to make such asinine judgments, NG. I’ll leave that to democrats trying to shamelessly exploit religion for their political gain.

[Don Nico]

Don't be so bigoted or judgemental of people whom you don't even know. I destroys your own credibility

[M L]

My knowledge of Wilson is limited. However, regarding the "theocracy" aspect you mentioned, note that this is a view of scripture called postmillennialism, which posits that the kingdom of God will be realized to some extent by Christianity growing to dominate all social and political systems on the planet. My sense is that this is a minority view but still represents one of the major views on eschatology and was perhaps more dominant at some points in history. Verses such as the following are cited in support.

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” 1 Corinthians 15

[Dr. Ed 2]

Sometimes you just have to really wonder about the FBI.

It seems that they went to question someone about his possession of a copy of it -- guys, in doing that, *you* just confirmed that the document is not a fake.

https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/fbi-visits-me-over-manifesto
Here it is: https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/the-israel-embassy-shooter-manifesto

The two questions I ask are (a) assuming he received it a few days before the atrocity, exactly what could law enforcement done with this -- and that's assuming they could link it back to the actual sender. There is no explicit threat of violence, and definitely no "who, what, where, & when" that law enforcement would need to do anything with this. And (b), even if there was, is there any legal obligation to tell law enforcement about it? Ethically, yes, but legally???

https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/fbi-visits-me-over-manifesto

And then as to the manifesto itself, I found this passage to be particularly chilling. It's the complete dehumanization of those with whom you disagree.

"A word about the morality of armed demonstration. Those of us against the genocide take satisfaction in arguing that the perpetrators and abettors have forfeited their humanity.... Humanity doesn't exempt one from accountability.

[Noscitur a sociis]

I give up.

What is it that you find surprising, much less wonder-inducing, about the FBI’s conduct here?

[Mr. Bumble]

Welcome to "The Milkman's Matinee".
Hope everyone enjoys the holiday.

[Dr. Ed 2]

There's a rumor floating around that both Harvard and Columbia rejected Baron Trump and that's why he is going after them.

Let me offer a different possibility -- the USSS told him not to let Baron go to either of those schools. Can you imagine what would happen if Baron Trump showed up at Harvard or Columbia?

And two ethical questions -- first, if I am right about the decision being made that Harvard/Columbia was unsafe for Baron, would that be grounds for Trump to act? And what if he was rejected -- the standard has always been that the President's child is qualified to go anywhere so if an exception to that unstated rule is being made, then?

Where is the line between retaliation and revelation -- between punishing them for what they did to your child and realizing that they are doing it to a lot of other people's children too, and acting on the latter?

[not guilty]

"And two ethical questions -- first, if I am right about the decision being made that Harvard/Columbia was unsafe for Baron, would that be grounds for Trump to act? And what if he was rejected -- the standard has always been that the President's child is qualified to go anywhere so if an exception to that unstated rule is being made, then?"

Would that be grounds for Trump to act as to what?

I seriously doubt that the Secret Service could tell Donald Trump not to let Barron go anywhere. And whatever recommendation the service may have made has no nexus to the punitive measures that Trump has taken regarding Harvard and/or Columbia.

[Brett Bellmore]

"the standard has always been that the President's child is qualified to go anywhere"

I've never heard of that standard.

[not guilty]

The University of Texas rejected George W. Bush's application to law school, but that was before his father became president.

[Michael P]

That's as incoherent as the time you cited two PIs that got overturned on appeal (one for not imposing bond) as evidence that TROs could legitimately have no bond.

[Riva]

Not to mention his usual string cites of irrelevant cases and dicta.

[not guilty]

Riva, you wouldn't recognize relevant caselaw, nor the difference between dicta and ratio decidendi if they bit you in the ass.

[Riva]

Apparently someone couldn’t accurately relate a line from Jaws if it swam up and bite him on the ass.

[not guilty]

Incoherent, Michael P? That word doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. And what that I have said do you dispute?

The University of Texas rejected George W. Bush's application to law school in the fall of 1970. https://www.ausa.org/sites/default/files/Bush.pdf The elder Bush served as Vice-president from January 1981 until January 1989 and as President from January 1989 to January 1993.

I don't recall having "cited two PIs that got overturned on appeal (one for not imposing bond) as evidence that TROs could legitimately have no bond." Please reproduce such citations (if you can).

Numerous Court of Appeals decisions have recognized that a District Court has discretion to waive the Rule 65(c) requirement of security for a preliminary injunction or a temporary restraining order, provided the District Court's reasons for doing so appear of record. For example, the Third Circuit opined in Temple University v. White, 941 F.2d 201 (3d Cir. 1991):

While Rule 65(c) does state that a plaintiff shall post a security bond before a district court may grant a preliminary injunction, we have acknowledged, on several occasions, that there may be instances in which a strict reading of Rule 65(c) would be inappropriate. While we have not previously addressed a situation where the bond requirement of Rule 65(c) could properly have been waived, we note that several other circuits have held that a district court may dispense with that requirement under certain narrowly drawn circumstances.

In particular, the First Circuit has articulated an appropriate analysis that a district court should employ in deciding whether or not to require a bond. Crowley v. Local No. 82, Furniture & Piano, 679 F.2d 978 (1st Cir. 1982), rev'd on other grounds, 467 U.S. 526, 104 S.Ct. 2557, 81 L.Ed.2d 457 (1984). "First, at least in noncommercial cases, the court should consider the possible loss to the enjoined party together with the hardship that a bond requirement would impose on the applicant." Id. at 1000. Here, Sacred Heart was on the brink of financial ruin and would have become insolvent absent the relief which the district court ordered. Furthermore, the district court found that virtually no risk existed for DPW in advancing funds to Sacred Heart, because of the probability that the hospital would be entitled to as much or more monies pursuant to DPW's new MAP. The emergency relief itself ensured Sacred Heart's financial solvency, and DPW could recoup any overpayment of funds by withholding on future payments to Sacred Heart. The equities of potential hardships to the parties, therefore, weighed in favor of waiving the bond requirement.

Id., at 219 (footnotes omitted). At footnote 26, the Court of Appeals there opined:

See, e.g., Crowley v. Local No. 82, Furniture & Piano, 679 F.2d 978 (1st Cir. 1982), rev'd on other grounds, 467 U.S. 526, 104 S.Ct. 2557, 81 L.Ed.2d 457 (1984) (upholding denial of bond where Union members would have had financial difficulty posting it, and where defendants faced low burden from absence of security); International Controls v. Vesco, 490 F.2d 1334, 1356 (2d Cir.1974), cert. denied, 417 U.S. 932, 94 S.Ct. 2644, 41 L.Ed.2d 236 (1974) (noting that "the district court may dispense with security where there has been no proof of likelihood of harm to the party enjoined") (citations omitted); Corrigan Dispatch Co. v. Casa Guzman, S.A., 569 F.2d 300 (5th Cir.1978) (trial court may elect not to require security bond where entire purchase price of disputed sale was paid into registry of court); Urbain v. Knapp Brothers Mfg., 217 F.2d 810 (6th Cir.1954) (no bond required where defendant would not appear to face material damage); Wayne Chemical v. Columbus Agency Serv. Corp., 567 F.2d 692 (7th Cir.1977) (no bond required from indigent plaintiff); People ex rel. v. Van De Kamp v. Tahoe Regional Plan, 766 F.2d 1319 (9th Cir.1985) (holding non-profit environmental group would be denied access to judicial review if court did not properly exercise its discretion to dispense with security requirement); Continental Oil v. Frontier Refinery, 338 F.2d 780 (10th Cir.1964) (no bond required where likelihood of harm to defendant is absent).

[Michael P]

It's incoherent because in 1970, when GWB was turned down, he was the son of a minor Representative, and so not relevant to a claim that "the standard has always been that the President's child is qualified to go anywhere".

The time you cited two overturned cases was https://reason.com/volokh/2025/02/14/friday-open-thread-7/?comments=true#comment-10915999 . Even the case you quote here recognizes that they're bending the plain text of the Rule, with only the excuse of a balance of equities that does not apply in the anti-Trump cases.

[David Nieporent]

Um, neither of those cases was overturned. What you seemingly mean is that they overturned the respective district courts' decisions, which is entirely different. Setting aside that mistake, you misread the case, as NG explained in response to the comment at that link. Those cases say that the district court must address the security issue; it can't ignore it. But they expressly say that the district can set the bond at a nominal amount or even $0, which is the proposition for which NG cited them.

[Michael P]

You got me! I wrote "overturned cases" when I should have written "vacated and remanded preliminary injunctions"! The nitpicker strikes again.

One of those PIs was vacated because it did not address the bond question; the other on other grounds. That makes commentary about $0 bonds ... dicta. And to coin a phrase, dicta and $5 will get you a small coffee at Starbucks*.

* Offer valid at participating locations.

[David Nieporent]

That is not how actual lawyering works. "Dicta" is not a Harry Potter spell that allows one to ignore what an appellate court says. When the court issues a ruling that says, "You didn't impose a bond, as the rule requires, so reversed and remanded; you can impose a zero dollar bond, but you must address it and explain why," that means the district court can impose a zero dollar bond.

A lawyer who subsequently submitted a brief saying, "You can't impose a zero dollar bond" (other than to preserve the argument) would be more likely to be sanctioned than to prevail.

[Brett Bellmore]

"While Rule 65(c) does state that a plaintiff shall post a security bond before a district court may grant a preliminary injunction, we have acknowledged, on several occasions, that" actually having to follow the law is for lesser mortals, not judges.

[Riva]

I think circumstances making the campus unsafe for jews as well as discrimination against anyone with views not aligned with the particularly virulent DEI/woke agenda of Harvard were more motivating factors.

[Frank Drackman]

Why would he want his kid to go to either one? With all the Ham-Ass supporters, the University of Kabul would be safer, and he can probably get into a more prestigious School like Penn State or Auburn

[Dr. Ed 2]

Ham-Ass is why he is doing what he is doing, I'm wondering the extent he is thinking like a parent sending a child to college.

[Noscitur a sociis]

Baron

Why?

the standard has always been that the President's child is qualified to go anywhere

What?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Am I the only one wondering how the Spanish Navy could have screwed up as badly as it did?

The tide runs 5 knots and the wake pattern indicates that the propeller was in reverse. Wow....
.

[Mr. Bumble]

The things you wonder about...
Yes, you are the only one.
Of more consequence is why and how the Spanish power grid went down and apparently no one cares about that either.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The Spanish outage was caused by reliance on pixie dust and unicorn flatulence. However the two French ones this weekend were arson/sabotage.

https://www.newsbytesapp.com/news/world/2-power-blackouts-in-france-who-is-sabotaging-electric-grid/story

[Frank Drackman]

I think you mean the Mexican Navy

[Michael P]

(Both countries speak Mexican, right?)

After the collision, I saw the Mexican navy making an excuse that a NYC pilot was in charge at the time, although the article didn't have a response from the pilot or any organization representing ship pilots in the city.

[Mr. Bumble]

Meanwhile little rocket man's navy managed to sink there own ship while launching it.

[Dr. Ed 2]

That actually isn't difficult to do, I'm told that there were a few close calls at Bath Iron Works launching ships into the Kennebec River.

That's why they build them in drydocks now.

[jb]

I don't know anything about a pilot, but apparently there is some question about whether the tugboat that was assisting the ship pulled away too fast:

https://nypost.com/2025/05/19/us-news/feds-probing-tugboats-possible-role-in-deadly-mexican-ship-brooklyn-bridge-crash/

[John F. Carr]

According to comments online, the model of variable pitch propeller installed on the Mexican navy ship tends to go to full reverse pitch when pitch control fails.

There was minimal tidal current at the time of the crash. Allision if you're an admiralty lawyer. Crash to those of us who work on dry land.

[David Nieporent]

Am I the only one wondering how the Spanish Navy could have screwed up as badly as it did?

I mean, first storms damaged and delayed it, and when it finally began its serious campaign, the British navy was more numerous, faster, and more maneuverable, and its fireships did significant damage.

[Both Sides]

Thread winner.

[Commenter_XY]

Spare a thought today for the servicemen and servicewomen who gave their lives for our country, today. Remember them.

[Mr. Bumble]

Just don't confuse it with Veteran's Day.
Today is for the departed; Veteran's Day for those still with us.

[Riva]

And to add, we don’t celebrate Memorial Day. We observe it.

[Both Sides]

Yes, starting a M.D. message "Happy Memorial Day" shows no understanding of the occasion.

[Riva]

No but obnoxious troll clowns seeking to exploit comments out of context certainly says a lot about the obnoxious troll clown though

[Both Sides]

A President beginning an incoherent Memorial Day message with "Happy Memorial Day" is "out of context" from your obvious point that we don't "celebrate" Memorial Day? A better man would take the L and move on to something else.

[Malika the Maiz]

Cultists don’t criticize the Leader.

[Riva]

No. a better take would have been not to make an obnoxious trolling comment. But trolls are not generally know for class and restraint. All the trash who used to pollute twitter have apparently found a home in this comments section.

[Kazinski]

The Senate followed the House in rolling back the EPA waiver allowing California mandate EV's.

"The U.S. Senate voted today to block California’s landmark mandate phasing out gas-powered cars, dealing a substantial blow to the state’s aggressive transition to electric vehicles.

The decision to revoke three waivers that the Biden administration granted to California could upend the state’s decades-long efforts and authority to clean up its air pollution — the worst in the nation — and reduce greenhouse gases that cause climate change."

Democrats might try to challenge the rollback in court based on the Senate overriling the parlimentarian, but that has no chance of success. A majority of both houses voted for the measure, and Trump signed it.

The parlimentarian claimed EPA granting a waiver from a regulation is not itself a regulation, so it couldn't be rolled back by a majority vote, it needed to 60 to pass cloture.

Two California Democrats voted for the rollback in yhe House and Sen Slotkin (D-MI) voted for it in the Senate.

[Mr. Bumble]

What a convoluted world.
The ACA mandates that you MUST by a product or face a penalty (tax according to JR) and California mandates the you can't by a product.

[wvattorney13]

EVs were a boondoggle. Except for a niche group, very few people want them. They are nothing but central government planning that wrecked the auto industry.

[Michael Ejercito]

If EVs have to be mandated, there there must be something wrong with them.

[Krayt]

The parlimentarian claimed EPA granting a waiver from a regulation is not itself a regulation, so it couldn't be rolled back by a majority vote, it needed to 60 to pass cloture.

We love democracy! Until we don't.

Actually, administrative procedures act and the like were implemented ostensibly for openness, but in reality to put a stick in each other's craw. I can't see any judge claiming the power to reverse a vote the Senate itself was fine with. This isn't the executive creating a regulation under "enforcement" of a law.

[jb]

Agreed that a lawsuit wouldn't work (the Senate sets its own rules), but it's one step closer to the filibuster just being eliminated.

At a big picture level, though: I thought the states were supposed to be the laboratories of Democracy and all that. Why does Trump (or any of you who don't live there) care what rules California wants to put in place about what cars are allowed to be sold there?

[bernard11]

I thought the states were supposed to be the laboratories of Democracy

You got it wrong. They are supposed to be laboratories of Republicanism. If a state adopts some conservative policy that a Democratic administration tries to roll back the right screams and howls about federalism and local control, and how it's none of the feds' business.

But reverse it and suddenly the state shouldn't be allowed to do that, because Trump doesn't like it or something.

[Kazinski]

That ship sailed long ago with Wickard.

While states can and do set their own policies on a lot of things, the EPA was given authority by Congress to set emissions standards for cars under the commerce clause. The EPA then granted California a waiver, which Congress decided was unwise.

Why does California get to set its own emulsions standards but Texas can't?

That is hardly how a laboratory of democracy would work.

[Mr. Bumble]

...or it's Frankenstein's laboratory of democracy.

[bernard11]

And why did Congress decide it was unwise? I know the real reason - general animus toward CA, but what was their pretext?

[Don Nico]

Because CA doesn't have and won't have sufficient electrical generating capacity and because the CA mandate is a a burden on how income individuals

[Kazinski]

It was because Pete Buttigieg only built 7 EV charging stations.

Or that Elon Musk can't build enough charging stations without auxiliary diesel generators because of grid capacity problems.
https://www.sfgate.com/centralcoast/article/tesla-interstate-5-supercharger-power-plant-18343119.php

Or that 70% of Americans don't want an EV mandate.

[Sarcastr0]

Judging a program before it's planned period of performance is over is a fraught proposition. Acquisition, especially federal $$ through state infrastructure, isn't a linear thing.

Not that you're here bringing the best practices for robust analysis.

[jb]

Sounds like a California problem to fix? Their EV mandate didn't come with the requirement that the federal government build out charging infrastructure.

What's even the notional federal interest here?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Does this eliminate the Massachusetts EV mandate as well?

[Kazinski]

Massachusetts punted on its EV mandate in March.

Its obviously not feasible now.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/05/23/science/massachusetts-electric-vehicle-mandate

[not guilty]

Four partners in the law firm Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP, including a co-chair of the firm’s litigation department, are breaking off to start their own firm. https://www.politico.com/news/2025/05/23/partners-exit-paul-weiss-trump-00368940

In a situation such as that, each client can elect whether to continue being represented by the old firm or to go with the newly created firm. In the struggle to preserve the rule of law, Paul Weiss is a quisling. I hope that they hemorrhage clients.

[Commenter_XY]

Amazing how we both seem to want the same thing. 🙂

[John F. Carr]

I remember a guy telling a story about how he, an offended patron, walked out of a store and never went back. I thought both the shopkeeper and the patron considered themselves the winner in that fight.

[Estragon]

This is a cute new line from you, I guess trying to memory-hole your mind-bendingly stupid take at the beginning of all of this: that capitulation to Trump was a savvy move by Paul Weiss— so savvy in fact that they would lavish Brad Karp with a raise and hang his picture in the boardroom. How do you think that prediction has aged?

And is it truly what you want? If these four partners move on to create their own new firm, presumably they would no longer be bound by the obligations the Trump administration tried to impose upon them— obligations which you repeatedly praised! Now they can engage in nefarious hiring practices and refuse to do pro-bono work defending dirty cops. You want this?

[Commenter_XY]

You're really dumb if you actually think I want this memory-holed, Estragon. Your side set the rules, and now they are being enforced (yes, the elections have consequences thing, again). 🙂

[Estragon]

This is borderline unintelligible which is the best I suppose we can hope from someone who was so demonstrably, screamingly wrong.

“This is why the only mode of moral argumentation you ever see from a reactionary is whataboutism. The point of “they did it first” (for whatever “it,” censorship or voter fraud or whatever) is not that “it” is bad & no one should do it, but that *it’s ok for us to do it too*.

It’s not even really a moral argument. It’s just a permission structure — they did it, so we can’t be held accountable for doing it too.”

[Estragon]

Also the retreat into nihilism is so predictable. Perhaps you would agree with this quote? Bonus point if you don’t google it first and just naturally react:

“I shall not rest until every German sees that it is a shameful thing to be a lawyer.”

[David Nieporent]

Amazing how we both seem to want the same thing.

Once again, you don't even realize how you're beclowning yourself. You foolishly thought that Paul, Weiss's capitulation to Trump was a smart business decision. Remember?

[Commenter_XY]

Oh, I remember very well. Don't confuse Brad Karp making a tough and smart business decision (which he did), with my desire (shared by many others) to see one of the premier law firms that created so much trouble for the country get kicked in the shins. I am not crying at the pain and suffering of PW. Rather the opposite. The other side set the rules, David. Now they are being enforced. 🙂

[Malika the Maiz]

So you lack principles other than partisanship and are gleeful about this situation?

[Sarcastr0]

Commenter has devolved to posting mostly about how he wants suffering and persecution for everyone he doesn't like.

And tells people to kill themselves.

That's no way to go through life, but he's a broken man for reasons unclear. More an object lesson in how not to live than anyone worth really interacting with.

[David Nieporent]

Don't confuse Brad Karp making a tough and smart business decision (which he did),

You still don't grasp that this shows exactly the opposite.

[Kazinski]

Vermont bailed on the EV mandates almost 2 weeks ago before the Senate vote because it was technically and economically impractical:

"WHEREAS, it has become clear that there is insufficient charging infrastructure for passenger cars and insufficient technological advances in heavy-duty vehicles for these regulatory requirements to meet current goals; and
WHEREAS, tariffs and other federal disruptions are increasing costs and causing supply chain uncertainty; and
WHEREAS, some manufacturers are shifting the burden of the ACC II and ACT rules to local auto dealers by requiring ZEV sales before allowing internal combustion engine car and truck sales
(hereinafter referred to as “ZEV sales ratios”), which reduces the number and type of internal combustion engine cars and trucks available to Vermont dealerships and customers; and
WHEREAS, some manufacturers are requiring ZEV sales before allowing internal combustion engine truck sales to generate nitrogen oxide credits in lieu of HD Omnibus-compliant engine sales to meet HD Omnibus requirements, again resulting in reduced availability of internal combustion engine trucks to Vermont dealerships and customers; "

Because the mandates required 35% of model.year 2026 cars be EV's evidently the automakers were not going to ship gas vehicles until enough EV's were sold first.

The dealers must have been screaming.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Think of auto dealers as the nation's new poll managers. They conduct the all-important elections in which voters—aka auto buyers (and only auto buyers)—decree national policies to govern energy policy, climate management policy, and clean air regulation. Good system?

[Frank Drackman]

You're talking about Capitalism, so yes.

[bernard11]

Ridiculous system, of course.

Why should car owners and dealers control emission policies? The general public has an obvious interest here.

Pretty much a collective action problem.

[Kazinski]

Here is what one of the two California congressman who voted with the Republicans said:

"As Americans, we all want to do our part to protect the environment. As a lawmaker, my primary job is to listen to my neighbors and respect their choices to do what is best for their families and their circumstances. That means protecting consumers’ rights to drive whatever vehicle makes sense for them and their pocketbooks,” Correa said in an emailed statement.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Kazinski — As I asked before, good system?

For instance, if there are citizens who do not reduce politics to the subset of issues affecting, "consumers," what political consideration does Correa's view of the matter imply for them?

Do you think your own political status ought to be defined by a congress person's estimate of your heft as a consumer? How about an estimate about you made by an auto dealer?

[Krayt]

You assume all regulations are for The Good of Mankind, and not just burden joyously lain on business, oh look, our family wealth is skyrocketting I have such great investment advisors.

Turn loose wildcats to slash at the populace, prophylactic donations occur.

Let's all continue living in the faceted world of these robbers, though.

This occurs even if the issue is real.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Krayt, you sound like someone affable Ben Franklin would have avoided as a waste of time. Have you ever posted a pro-social comment anywhere?

[Bwaaah]

You loom like a finger-wagging dark cloud in the distance, ready to blanket and douse every human spirit with your vision of social order. "Pro-social" is what you seek? Try pro-human, as in "get out of everybody else's way," and not more of your bottomless, economically lossful compulsion to mitigate your small-minded vision of risk.

That which you call "pro-social" is a giant "NO!" to humanity.

[Kazinski]

I don't want government making my decisions on what is available for me to buy, especially something as personal as a car.

I think most people feel the same.

[Malika the Maiz]

You can have two dolls instead of thirty!

[TwelveInchPianist]

You should be happy. Less you have to blow up.

[Malika the Maiz]

If people like you’d stop blowing Trump we could have as many dolls as we want.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Kazinski — Seems a pity how much attention you focus on things you can buy. Even if most people feel the same, you would be wise to focus instead on the others.

[Kazinski]

I don't' focus much on things I can buy, at least until someone trys to tell me I can't buy it.

[Michael Ejercito]

Yes.

Ideally, we should just let people buty whatever they feel like buying.

The United States already has the highest prison population in the world. why make it worse?

[Don Nico]

As good as any, Stephen

[Dr. Ed 2]

Massachusetts just did the same thing:
https://www.eagletribune.com/news/boston/dep-delays-electric-vehicle-sales-requirements-for-2-years/article_c39166ea-3889-403f-8a42-bf68be7952d2.html

The manufacturers were threatening to just not sell *any* vehicles in Massachusetts, and as all parts of the Commonwealth except the Cape and Islands is less than 30 minutes from another state, that is an effective threat.

It was really hurting the big truck sales.

[Malika the Maiz]

Remember when Republicans were outraged that the son of the President might be trading in his father’s name or access to favorable policy in dealing with foreign governments?

“This $1.5 billion golf complex outside the capital, Hanoi, as well as plans for a Trump skyscraper in Ho Chi Minh City, are the Trump family’s first projects in Vietnam — part of a global moneymaking enterprise that no family of a sitting American president has ever attempted on this scale. And as that blitz makes the Trumps richer, it is distorting how countries interact with the United States.

To fast-track the Trump development, Vietnam has ignored its own laws, legal experts said, granting concessions more generous than what even the most connected locals receive. Vietnamese officials, in a letter obtained by The New York Times, explicitly stated that the project required special support from the top ranks of the Vietnamese government because it was “receiving special attention from the Trump administration and President Donald Trump personally.”

And Vietnamese officials have waved the development along in a moment of high-stakes diplomacy. They face intense pressure to strike a trade deal that would head off President Trump’s threat of steep tariffs, which would hit about 30 percent of Vietnam’s exports.

Eric Trump, the president’s second son, stands at the center of the drama. Mr. Trump was in Vietnam to break ground for the golf project on Wednesday, less than a year after meeting a local building partner, Dang Thanh Tam. Inside a tent with a gold facade, Mr. Trump told guests, including the country’s prime minister, that “the Trump family is going to make you very, very proud.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/25/world/asia/trump-vietnam-golf-project.html

[Frank Drackman]

Maybe Eric need money to pay da Rent

[Dr. Ed 2]

If you try to bankrupt the Trump Corporation because Donald was President, I think it is only fair for the Trump Corporation to make big bucks because Donald is President.

What the NYT fails to ask is who is Vietnam's major competitor?
Yep, China.

So Trump is strengthening Vietnam -- that's also a strategic move to further US foreign policy.

[Malika the Maiz]

“If you try to bankrupt the Trump Corporation because Donald was President, I think it is only fair for the Trump Corporation to make big bucks because Donald is President.”

In a nutshell (and I mean nut).

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I also found that article interesting.

https://archive.ph/aKJh6

"When officials in the home province of Vietnam’s top leader went door to door recently, pressing residents to sign letters agreeing to the Trump Organization’s plans for a new golf community, Le Van Truong wanted to refuse.

Planning documents promised a “new benchmark in luxury, recreation and business.” Mr. Truong, 54, pictured something else: the uprooting of a cemetery with five generations of his ancestors and the loss of rich farmland that has sustained local families for centuries.

Yet he signed anyway, because, as he put it, “there’s nothing I can do.”

Opponents of Kelo might find this troubling as a matter of general principle (not following general rules and evidence of favoritism were red flags raised in that case):

"To fast-track the Trump development, Vietnam has ignored its own laws, legal experts said, granting concessions more generous than what even the most connected locals receive. Vietnamese officials, in a letter obtained by The New York Times, explicitly stated that the project required special support from the top ranks of the Vietnamese government because it was “receiving special attention from the Trump administration and President Donald Trump personally.”

[Dr. Ed 2]

Well if the dirty hippies hadn't sabotaged the US war effort in Vietnam, he would be living in a country where he had civil rights.

It's a pity that we didn't have pinpoint accurate ordinance back then, imagine a cruise missile hitting Hanoi Jane as she sat on the AAA gun. It was a shooting war and she -- seated at the controls of a weapon system -- was a legitimate military target.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Malika the Maiz — Why not three grand jury presentments, two for Donald Trump, and one for Eric Trump. Soliciting bribes, and emoluments clause violations for Donald Trump, just soliciting bribes for Eric Trump.

Does anyone expect that SCOTUS will (or wants to) find a way to put a brake on foreign bribery of the President unless grand juries take a hand independently to initiate cases? Where should the grand juries to bring the charges be situated?

As for the whatabouters, let's put a stop to the foreign bribery problem going forward. It's too late to fix the past. Left unchecked, this kind of offense against American constitutionalism will become an inevitable feature of every future presidency.

[Malika the Maiz]

“As for the whatabouters, let's put a stop to the foreign bribery problem going forward.”

Are you kidding? When Trump came in he gutted ethics rules and MAGAns didn’t say a thing. His followers were never serious in being against what they charged the Biden’s with, they just saw the D after the President’s name at the time. Goals, not principles.

[Dr. Ed 2]

"Left unchecked, this kind of offense against American constitutionalism will become an inevitable feature of every future presidency."

As opposed to every past President in our lifetimes and most members of Congress? Anyone remember either Whitewater or Hillary's success with cattle futures? Or the Biden Crime Family?

Obama was a little bit more discrete but you don't become as rich as he did on $200K a year.

[Malika the Maiz]

Why don’t the same people who got mad about Biden’s son trading his name and access to favors with foreign companies and governments mad about Trumps kids doing the same?

Crazy Eddie: Well, whatabout Clinton or Obama?

Lol.

[Michael Ejercito]

What was the impeachment about, again?

[Malika the Maiz]

?

[Kazinski]

Who knew the Trumps were in the business of developing and running domestic and foreign luxury golf resorts?

[Malika the Maiz]

lol, and who knew Hunter Biden was a corporate consultant and board member?

[Michael P]

The Trump family has been in that line of business for a very long time. Hunter Biden's business history was getting un-commissioned by the Navy for his cocaine habit.

[Frank Drackman]

He’s still a Vet, make sure to thank him for his service!

[Malika the Maiz]

Poor uninformed Mikie, Hunter was in the business before his dad became VP (he and his uncle had an international consulting group in 2006).

But as Mikie’s Mad King says “I love the poorly educated!”

[Michael P]

That's the business where they fired the company's president the day they took over, and James Biden promptly made it clear what they were selling:

“Don’t worry about investors,” he said, according to the executive, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing fear of retaliation. “We’ve got people all around the world who want to invest in Joe Biden.”

(This was shortly before Joe launched his 2008 presidential campaign.)

[Malika the Maiz]

Anonymous source! Always reliable.

“This was shortly before Joe launched his 2008 presidential campaign.”

Which, like his previous runs, he lost badly!

So, to be clear, MAGA Mikie is good with a President’s kids trading in his dad’s name and foreign policy favors to enrich the President and his kid as long as it’s in a business that’s been around for a while! Drain that swamp!

[Michael P]

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/02/joe-biden-investigation-hunter-brother-hedge-fund-money-2020-campaign-227407/

James and Hunter are another story. There is no indication the Bidens ever succeeded in bringing new foreign money into the fund, but their involvement with Paradigm, which spanned the final two years of Joe’s Senate career and first two years of his vice presidency, was troubled for other reasons: In James and Hunter’s five-year tenure, Paradigm became associated with a number of alleged and confirmed frauds, including Allen Stanford’s multibillion-dollar Ponzi scheme, while seeking to draw on their powerful relative’s political allies for financing.

Are you sure you want to keep citing this example of Hunter's prior practices?

[Malika the Maiz]

From MAGA Mikie’s source:

“There’s no evidence that Joe Biden used his power inappropriately or took action to benefit his relatives with respect to these ventures. Interviews, court records, government filings and news reports, however, reveal that some members of the Biden family have consistently mixed business and politics over nearly half a century, moving from one business to the next as Joe’s stature in Washington grew.

None of the ventures appear to have been runaway successes, and Biden’s relatives have not been accused of criminal wrongdoing in their dealings.”

But I’m not here to defend James and Hunter Biden but to point out the MAGA Mikies of the world’s rank hypocrisy or lack of self-awareness, as this passage from his source makes clear:

“Their ventures, over nearly half a century, have regularly raised conflict-of-interest questions and brought the Biden family into potentially compromising associations.”

You could replace Biden with Trump, and worse, that would be the case *right now.* There’s currently a “big guy” in the White House whose kids are doing business deals with foreign governments that the “big guy” is making economic policy with which aim to and have enriched the kids and “the big guy.” And, as hobie notes, crickets from these servants of the Mad King.

[Dr. Ed 2]

"None of the ventures appear to have been runaway successes"

So the Bidens are also incredibly inept...

[Malika the Maiz]

Or didn’t cash in favors (or well).

[Kazinski]

Or didn't have a viable product to sell.

[Michael P]

Politico at the time was still solidly in reality denial mode about that evidence -- and it was long before, for example, the contents of Hunter Biden's laptop came to light.

The name-callers on the left are perfectly fine with Bidens and Clintons and others starting new lines of business when their families hold office, and with Pelosis and others making hundreds of millions in the stock market from suspiciously informed-looking trades, but not with the Trump family continuing to conduct longstanding lines of business. The double standard is both obvious and untenable.

[Malika the Maiz]

Haha, MAGA Mikie with the “I know you are, but what am I” argument.

The fact remains: MAGA Mikie was in fits of rage at the claim that a President (or VP’s) son was trading his name and favors to foreign governments for their enrichment but now that Trump and his sons are doing this *in spades* the only thing he can muster when his hypocrisy is pointed out is: whatabout Biden?

[Michael P]

Donald Trump and his family were trading on their name before Joe Biden became a Senator, to say nothing of The Donald's first election. The defense of the double standard is as vacuous as we have come to expect from the gender-confused troll whose ouvre is dominated by name-calling.

[Malika the Maiz]

Again, MAGA Mikie’s defense is “Trump’s sons were trading on their father’s name before their dad was President so it’s all good when they do it when he is!”

“the gender-confused troll whose ouvre is dominated by name-calling”

Name calling indeed!

[jb]

Cool cool. Now do crypto!

[Sarcastr0]

Quite a switch from when Kaz was posting Comer’s speculations about the Biden Crime Family.

[Kazinski]

"Last month, Biden pardoned his son Hunter for tax and gun crimes [for any crime between 2014 and 2024], despite his previous pledges not to do so."

"Biden issued blanket pardons for his brother James and his wife, Sara; his sister, Valerie, and her husband, John Owens; and his brother Francis."

"Comer says that the reason the blanket pardon is from 2014 until December 1st 2024 is because that’s when the House Oversight Committee started subpoenaing bank records, from 2014 onward. Comer explained how the information collected by the Oversight Committee came from the private sector, private banks, depositions, and this information could have been sent to the Department of Justice which could have sent Hunter Biden and his entire family to prison."

https://radio.foxnews.com/2024/12/03/congressman-james-comer-on-how-pam-bondi-can-pursue-a-public-corruption-case-of-joe-biden/

That's a lot of pardons

[Commenter_XY]

Team D set the rules (pardons). In light of recent comments by Rep Crockett, I would expect pardons of Trump family members. It is distasteful.

[Malika the Maiz]

At the time Trump was actively campaigning to bring prosecutions broadly against them, no?

https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/trump-has-threatened-dozens-of-times-to-use-the-government-to-target-political-enemies/

[Sarcastr0]

Comer is grasping at straws, and here you are humping his latest bullshit.

Trump and his family is openly doing worse, and you sleep.

I just don't understand people being this level of tool.

[Malika the Maiz]

They don’t have principles, they have goals.

[hobie]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/14/us/politics/trump-kushner-hotel-serbia.html

The Serbian government magically removed the cultural protected status of the site of the former defense ministry (apparently one of the choicest pieces of land in the country) so that Kushner and Trump could build a $500M resort.

So we know that's the quid...but what will be the quo?

[Malika the Maiz]

Yes, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg:

“The Trump family's business interests in the region include a new deal to build a luxury golf resort in Qatar, partnering with Qatari Diar, a real estate company backed by that country's sovereign wealth fund. The family is also leasing its brand to two new real estate projects in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia's capital, in partnership with Dar Global, a London-based luxury real estate developer and subsidiary of private Saudi real estate firm Al Arkan.

The Trump Organization has similarly partnered with Dar Global on a Trump Tower set to be built in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, and an upcoming Trump International Hotel and luxury golf development in neighboring Oman.”

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Business/wireStory/trumps-middle-east-visit-family-deepens-business-crypto-121778990

Remember, Trump himself accused the Clintons of corruption over and over for taking money from these countries.

[hobie]

"Remember, Trump himself accused the Clintons of corruption over and over for taking money from these countries"

As did most of the rubes here, both then and now. So how'd all these crickets get in here?

[Dr. Ed 2]

"The Serbian government magically removed the cultural protected status of the site of the former defense ministry "

OK, *why* is a defense ministry a culturally protected site?

And has it occurred to anyone that Trump Inc. developments generate income for the local government?

[Malika the Maiz]

Oh, the charge is it might very well generate income the governments’ involved!

“I I like him a lot, I like him too much, that's why we give so much!”

[JoeFromtheBronx]

We celebrate Memorial Day, which began as a day to decorate the graves of Civil War dead (flowers being in bloom suggests the timing), today. Lincoln reminded us:

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion - that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

https://substack.com/inbox/post/164297238

(Interesting discussion of the change of views of the person who is the "father" of Memorial Day.)

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Related: "Veterans recoil at Trump plan to end Afghans’ deportation protection"

https://archive.ph/94MM6

[Frank Drackman]

This Veteran's not recoiling

[hobie]

Being an REMF such as yourself, Frankie, I would think that you had lots of extra time getting to know the natives. Hence, a greater appreciation for them. Also, I thought one of the central gripes you insurrectionists had about the Afghan pullout was that it left a lot of Afghans in the lurch.

[Frank Drackman]

There you go again (ht Ronaldus Maximus) using military terms incorrectly, which isn’t surprising, because the closest you’ve come to the Military is when you try to board early.(you know you’re that guy who “left my military ID home” not realizing real military guys never don’t have their ID)
Marine Corpse Infantry Battalions have Navy Corpse-men(ht Barry Hussein) and Doctors, whatever the 2d Marine Divisions invasion of Kuwait was, it wasn’t Rear Echelon
On the MF(keeping it clean EV!) part you got me, I F an M a few times a week (when I’m lucky)
Frank

[hobie]

I remember being in the Atlanta airport a few years ago. There was a group of Navy enlisted men lolling around waiting for their plane and playing on their phones. Quite frequently rednecks would approach and thank them for their service, which actually appeared to grow tiresome for them after awhile. What stood out most was that some would actually get down on one knee when they said their spiel. I found it amusing to see the hayseeds trying to out-suck the dick of patriotism

[Frank Drackman]

Another for the “(Redacted) Hobie makes up” File, although on the way home from Saudi we stopped at JFK, got to walk around the Terminal in our Desert Camo (had to leave the Beretta on the jet), man the hugs and kisses from the Civies! Some of them were even women!
Just kidding but it was nice being the first Vets since Korea who weren’t spat at
Oh, that Dick Sucking? 1: it’s what the Shrinks call “Projection” and 2: very homo-phobe-ick of you, you know what that means J Edgar

[Bwaaah]

"Thank you for your service" is a trite, canned phrase most often used as a show of good manners, of momentarily passing consideration, of proper grooming by people who are relatively divorced from people in the military. It's like saying to a black person who sounds literate, "You speak well for yourself."

Most "rednecks" have friends/family/relatives who are in the military. They are sufficiently familiar with military people to deliver more than a one-line, non-substantive remark. For example, they might ask something like, "Where are you stationed?" They might even know somebody similarly situated, and share real likenesses or differences.

In my own observations, civilians who are culturally and experientially divorced from military life are the most likely people to say, "Thank you for your service." Many say it as a demonstration of the kind of good manners that members of an upper echelon, such as you wish to be, show to the kind of lowly people like rednecks and military people who fill the ranks of the service class (read: "servant class").

This is a good day for you to not suck any military dick, Hobie. You're much better than that.

[hobie]

Like you hayseeds' preoccupation and fetish for Israel, you have the same psychosis when it comes to servicemen. Placing them as little cult objects. It's not healthy

[Malika the Maiz]

You can appreciate someone’s service in the military without it being fetishized.

[hobie]

Indeed

[Malika the Maiz]

Don’t say it, “you’re an elite that hates the military,” as it, “you’re patronizing!”

[Dr. Ed 2]

Thank you for your service." Many say it as a demonstration of the kind of good manners that members of an upper echelon..."

I say it because I didn't serve -- I couldn't (4F-vision)

I say it because even if I may disagree with the person, I still respect the person's service.

[Frank Drackman]

You can tell the truth Ed, it’s 2025,
Like Ty Webb you were “Homo” but “much better now”

[Malika the Maiz]

Hobie lacks the made-up military experience of the Frank Fakeman character!

[hobie]

Frankie is just pining for Veterans day when we worship whiny, insecure REMFs such as himself. Don't worry Frankie, come the day I'll thank you for your service as marine candystriper

[Frank Drackman]

Lets make a deal, you don't lie about my military service, and I won't tell the truth about why you couldn't serve

[hobie]

If you don't ask, I won't tell

[Dr. Ed 2]

Less than 20-200 uncorrected is not made up.

[Frank Drackman]

Didn’t keep me from being a Flight Doc (they bend the rules a bit for more valuable peoples)

[Malika the Maiz]

You mean made up whiny, insecure REMFs like the character he pathetically performs here.

[Frank Drackman]

Jeez Queenie, now you’re making me wonder if I’m real, is that you John Wayne? Is this me? Maybe I’m Joe Biden’s Prostrate? I get Cancer, I kill Joe, thats what he gets for ignoring me for so long

[Malika the Maiz]

“Jeez Queenie, now you’re making me wonder if I’m real”

That makes one of us, I know you’re a pathetic weirdo performance. MAGA attracts lots of that type.

[Krayt]

Related: "Veterans recoil at Trump plan to end Afghans’ deportation protection

Frank: This Veteran's not recoiling

Why would that be? Those that go out on a limb for us then get in trouble as the evil closes in.

When the last choppers took off from the roof in Vietnam, were you laughing at the last babies and kids who failed to make it, knowing what the rampaging VC was doing to those who helped the Americans?

When the US reneged on promises to immigrants who joined the US military and fought and risked their lives, by not giving them the promised citizenship, did you not feel ashamed at our country?

[Krayt]

That last bit's full-throated Robert Heinlein from Starship Troopers: Service Guarantees Citizenship! [Click to know more!]

The debate is whether that should be the only option, not that it isn't a fine and wonderful option.

[Stephen Lathrop]

JoeFromtheBronx — Thank you for that.

My recollection is that the text of the Gettysburg Address was both uttered aloud, and published, far more commonly 50 years ago than it is today. I had not noticed that change prior to your reminder.

Surprising to me that an utterance so singular would fade so soon from national consciousness. Ironic that it was Lincoln himself who predicted it, in that very address.

[Malika the Maiz]

I’m just finishing up Heinlen’s For Us The Living, the title taken from the Address. Interesting what he has in his utopian United States in that work, such as a guaranteed basic income, given he’s famous for TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch)

[Brett Bellmore]

A lot of people mistake the society Heinlein designed for Starship Troopers as his idea of an ideal state. I don't think HE did.

[Malika the Maiz]

Very fair point.

[Noscitur a sociis]

TANSTAAFL is from the Moon is a Harsh Mistress, which presents a very different and moe conventionally libertarian society.

[Frank Drackman]

It’s “Heinlein” stew-pid

[Malika the Maiz]

Who needs that pesky Establishment Clause?

“The Texas House on Sunday passed Senate Bill 10, a measure requiring the display of the Ten Commandments in every public-school classroom in the state…

The measure, which will take effect Sept. 1 if signed by Abbott, requires every public-school classroom in the state to display a version of the Ten Commandments using the same language from the King James Bible as used on the Ten Commandments monument outside the Texas State Capitol in Austin.…

"Nothing is more deep-rooted in the fabric of our American tradition of education than the Ten Commandments," Noble (R) said. "The very way we treat others in our society come from the principles found in the Ten Commandments. In these days of courtroom mayhem, it's time to return to the truths, to the fabric of our educational system. Respect authority. Respect others. Don't steal. Tell the truth. Don't kill. Keep your word."

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/religion/2025/05/25/522259/texas-house-passes-bill-requiring-display-of-the-ten-commandments-in-all-public-school-classrooms/

The required text:
I am the Lord thy God, Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make to thyselves any graven images.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Among other things, aren’t MAGAns supposed to be against introducing sexual topics to kindergartners?

Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife nor his manservant

[JoeFromtheBronx]

They chose "a version," which Catholics might find curious since the Catholic version does not have the graven image reference.

https://relevantradio.com/faith/catholicism-101/the-ten-commandments/

The Texan list also seems to have 11 commandments, with the covet commands broken into two "thou shalt nots."

[Malika the Maiz]

The complete version can be found here:

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/89R/billtext/pdf/SB00010I.pdf#navpanes=0

Not only does it choose a sectarian version, it also paraphrases, for example leaving out the “for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;” (maybe that violated their CRT ban?).

[JoeFromtheBronx]

When another Texas display was being tried by the Supreme Court, Scalia was dismissive of worrying too much about details. It was the overall symbolic message that mattered.

Some are a bit particular about religious text.

[Dr. Ed 2]

"visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

Gen Z, currently in college, is the third generation after the Baby Boomers.

Just sayin...

[Stephen Lathrop]

Below is the 10 Commandments version likely most prevalent in the original colonies at their outset, as presented in the Bishop's Bible, the version used in the established Church of England prior to the King James translation first published in 1611.

The King James translation was later used. Even Puritan ministers persecuted by the established Church of England relied on this version from the Bishop's Bible, which was in turn adapted from the Geneva Bible, which showed Calvinist Puritan tendencies, some of which proved distasteful to King James I:

Exodus 20:1-17

And God spake all these wordes, and said. I am the Lord thy GOD, whiche haue brought thee out of the lande of Egypt, out of ye house of bondage.

1. Thou shalt haue none other Gods in my sight.
2. Thou shalt make thee no grauen image, neyther any similitude that is in heauen aboue, eyther in the earth beneath, or in the waters vnder the earth. Thou shalt not bowe downe to them, neyther serue them: for I the Lord thy God, am a gelous God, and visite the sinne of the fathers vpon the chyldren, vnto the thirde and fourth generation of them that hate me: And shewe mercy vnto thousandes in them that loue me, and kepe my commaundementes.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lorde thy God in vayne: for the Lorde will not holde him giltlesse that taketh his name in vayne.
4. Remember the sabboth day that thou sanctifie it. Sixe dayes shalt thou labour, and do all that thou hast to do. But the seuenth day is the sabboth of the Lorde thy God: in it thou shalt do no maner of worke, thou and thy sonne, and thy daughter, thy man seruaunt, and thy mayde seruaunt, thy cattel, and the straunger that is within thy gates.
5. For in sixe dayes the Lorde made heauen and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seuenth day: wherfore the Lorde blessed the seuenth day, and halowed it.
6. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy dayes may be long in the lande whiche the Lorde thy God geueth thee.
7. Thou shalt not kyll.
8. Thou shalt not commit adulterie.
9. Thou shalt not steale.
10. Thou shalt not beare false witnesse agaynst thy neyghbour.
Thou shalt not couet thy neyghbours house, neyther shalt thou couet thy neyghbours wyfe, nor his man seruaut, nor his mayde, nor his oxe, nor his asse, or whatsoeuer thy neighbour hath.

[not guilty]

If the Old Testament is taken literally, the Ten Commandments honor is the most heinous villain in all of English literature, what with Yahweh's multiple incidents of mass murder: the Great Flood, complete arson of two cities, the Tenth Plague and mass drowning of Pharoah's army.

FWIW, he is a major league baby killer. He put a targeted hit on Bathsheba's firstborn, causing the poor infant to suffer for a week before dying. The Great Flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and the Tenth Plague did not exempt babies from the carnage.

Yahweh and his Chosen People were also huge fans of genocide, including the mass slaughter of infants and children. All quotations here are from the original Revised Standard Version.

"However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you." Deuteronomy 20:16-17.

Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ ” I Samuel 15:1-3 (emphasis added)

"Sama'ria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open." Hosea 13:16 (emphasis added)

"Then they utterly destroyed all in the city [of Jericho,] both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and asses, with the edge of the sword." Joshua 6:21

"And the LORD said to me, 'Behold, I have begun to give Sihon and his land over to you; begin to take possession, that you may occupy his land.' Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Jahaz. And the LORD our God gave him over to us; and we defeated him and his sons and all his people. And we captured all his cities at that time and utterly destroyed every city, men, women, and children; we left none remaining[.]" Deuteronomy 2:31-34

"So the LORD our God gave into our hand Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people; and we smote him until no survivor was left to him. And we took all his cities at that time--there was not a city which we did not take from them--sixty cities, the whole region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. All these were cities fortified with high walls, gates, and bars, besides very many unwalled villages. And we utterly destroyed them, as we did to Sihon the king of Heshbon, destroying every city, men, women, and children." Deuteronomy 3:3-6

"And Joshua took Makke'dah on that day, and smote it and its king with the edge of the sword; he utterly destroyed every person in it, he left none remaining; and he did to the king of Makke'dah as he had done to the king of Jericho. Then Joshua passed on from Makke'dah, and all Israel with him, to Libnah, and fought against Libnah; and the LORD gave it also and its king into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it; he left none remaining in it; and he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho. And Joshua passed on from Libnah, and all Israel with him, to Lachish, and laid siege to it, and assaulted it: and the LORD gave Lachish into the hand of Israel, and he took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it, as he had done to Libnah. Then Horam king of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua smote him and his people, until he left none remaining. And Joshua passed on with all Israel from Lachish to Eglon; and they laid siege to it, and assaulted it; and they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword; and every person in it he utterly destroyed that day, as he had done to Lachish. Then Joshua went up with all Israel from Eglon to Hebron; and they assaulted it, and took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and its king and its towns, and every person in it; he left none remaining, as he had done to Eglon, and utterly destroyed it with every person in it. Then Joshua, with all Israel, turned back to Debir and assaulted it, and he took it with its king and all its towns; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed every person in it; he left none remaining; as he had done to Hebron and to Libnah and its king, so he did to Debir and to its king. So Joshua defeated the whole land, the hill country and the Negeb and the lowland and the slopes, and all their kings; he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:28-40

[Bwaaah]

That's a lot of quoting of stuff that you grant no credence. As such, it's hard to imagine how you could possibly be making a meaningful point. Are you trying to teach them using their language?

As a real man, I learn when Tim Walz speaks.

[not guilty]

I am just pointing out what kind of deity those Texans are purporting to honor, despite the clear precedent of Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980), evincing the rank unconstitutionality of what they are attempting to do.

I am a Christian believer, but I would not be if I took Old Testament mythology seriously. I don't choose to celebrate a celestial being who combines the temperament and self absorption of Livia Soprano with the wisdom of Christopher Moltisanti.

Or perhaps, as the comedian Lewis Black has suggested about Yahweh, "Maybe just the birth of his son calmed him down." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XhnOVsxEJM

[bernard11]

I'm not much of a theologian, NG, so tell me - does your idea of Christianity completely disavow the Hebrew Bible and its deity? No connection to Jesus whatsoever?

Your take is interesting. Mark Twain, as I recall, said much the same. But he didn't stop there. He went on to discuss Jesus, who apparently sends people to eternal torment if they don't accept his divinity, or believe that he alone can save them. This, regardless of how meritorious a life they led, how closely they adhered to his ideals, or whether they even heard of him.

I'm not trying to slam Christianity as much as say that what we regard as dubious behavior by deities is not a problem restricted to Judaism.

[not guilty]

I believe the basic tenets of Christianity, and I admire the teachings of Jesus, but I take neither the Old nor the New Testament literally. I don't think that the world was created in six 24 hour days a few thousand years ago, that Adam was a real person who lived to age 930, followed by multiple generations who also lived for more than 900 years, that Noah and a worldwide flood occurred, that Jonah was swallowed by a great fish and regurgitated days later.

Likewise I don't believe that on the day Jesus was crucified, numerous tombs opened up and zombies appeared to many people in Jerusalem, as reported in Matthew 27:52-53.

All that having been said, God as described in the Old Testament was quite a nasty character.

[Dr. Ed 2]

" ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ "

In other words "Nuke Gaza"....

Just sayin...

[Noscitur a sociis]

You’re *this* close to getting it!

[Moderation4ever]

While it is easy enough to look at this from the perspective of the violating the establishment clause, I would suggest looking at this as crony capitalism. The fact is the "nones" those are the non-religious are growing and that growth has economically threatened established religions. The COVID 19 pandemic caused many to stop attending religious services and many never went back. The Texas government is jumping in to help institutional religion continue to recruit customers. I think it is a losing battle and this is a desperate attempt.

[Krayt]

Religion is as strong as ever, just evolving.

One of the first writings about Christianity not in the Bible itself noted how Christians cared for the sick without concern for themselves, and how attractive that made it to new followers.

Social anthropologists noted well over 20 years ago Europe's decline in religiosity mapped well to government taking over many charitable things religion did, like caring for the sick, the poor, running schools, hospitals, orphanages.

It evolved to become the same thing, you tithe to it, it does your Good Works, and no boring attendance, except every four years where an ocasional firebrand preaches how the other side are hellbound dupes lead by actively evil demons.

And you can watch them from your sofa.

And like religion, the dark ages specifically, the priests are involved in massive corruption even as they save your soul!

[Malika the Maiz]

It’s more likely religion in Europe declined after the horrors of two World Wars…

[Moderation4ever]

Religion may not be declining but organized religion is declining and that is what the government of Texas is trying to prop up.

[Frank Drackman]

I don’t know if I’d call Hispanic Churches “Organized” but you can’t cross a corner in San Antonio without passing one, almost like the Catholics have been there 400 years

[Moderation4ever]

Clearly the Catholics see the Hispanic community as an important. I believe that is why the Catholic hierarchy has been defending immigrants and why the Catholic hierarchy has incurred the rath of JD Vance.

[SRG2]

Hitchens on the 10C

[Josh R]

Good, but Carlin is funnier.

[Commenter_XY]

I agree, Carlin is funnier.

[John F. Carr]

I have been in Christian schools which did not have the Ten Commandments in every classroom.

I don't care either way. Probably the law ends up handing a jackpot to some civil rights lawyers instead of making children more respectful. Under recent Supreme Court precedent if the state moots the case before final judgment the lawyers get nothing.

[Malika the Maiz]

Wouldn’t be surprised that this could be a result of (purposefully?) vague anti-abortion laws…

“The case of a pregnant woman in Georgia who was declared brain dead and has been kept on life support for three months has given rise to complicated questions about abortion law and whether a fetus is a person.

Adriana Smith, a 30-year-old nurse and mother, was about two months pregnant on Feb. 19 when she was declared brain dead, according to an online fundraising page started by her mother. Doctors said Georgia's strict anti-abortion law requires that she remain on life support until the fetus has developed enough to be delivered, her mother wrote.”

https://www.11alive.com/article/news/politics/adriana-smith-case-raises-questions-georgia-heartbeat-law/85-8beefae8-daca-4ef8-86f4-82575a09cf0f

[Frank Drackman]

Your first day of OB/GYN Rotation in Med Screw-el they pound it in your head "you have TWO patients!" (and sometimes 3)
The Georgia laws not complicated at all, (except for peoples confusing "Brain Death" with "Life Support") Life Support has to be continued unless 1: the Fetus is non-viable, or 2: the woman has an Advance Directive stating she wouldn't want a viable Fetus to go to term.
Why the push to kill this poor unborn child? Just pretend it's the next Floyd George or Travon.

Frank

[hobie]

"Just pretend it's the next Floyd George or Travon"

Or all the first borns in Egypt. "God has a hard-on for Marines. Because we kill everything we see"

[Malika the Maiz]

You just knew the made up Frankie persona was going to cry about this fetus but still try to edgelord it with a race comment. Also funny that the GOP line from the AG is the abortion law uncomplicatedly allows for the removal of life support! Personae don’t click links! Pathetically predictable, character needs a re-write!

[Frank Drackman]

Who’s the one wanting the unborn Black baby killed? Not Me! (Ht B Keane) and aren’t Floyd and Travon heroes? Everyone knows their names, but ask someone to name 2 Black Medal of Honor winners

[Malika the Maiz]

Pathetic persona!

[Frank Drackman]

That would be a unique name, but no, no African Amurican named “Pathetic Persona” has won the MOH

[Paladin_44]

Come on, Frank, you know better. You don't "win" the MoH - it's awarded to you.

[Frank Drackman]

you're right, my bad, it is awarded, usually posthumously

[ThePublius]

Only 18.7% of Medals of Honor have been awarded posthumously.

[Frank Drackman]

That can’t be right, what’s the % for Navy Corpsemen? They had a bunch of the award citations at the 2d Mar Div HQ building, I’ve have sworn almost every one ended with “after saving his entire platoon and braving rocket, artillery, and machine gun fire, HM3 Schmuckatelli succumbed to his wounds”

[Moderation4ever]

This story comes just as little two close to something from the "Handmaids Tale". Two months into a pregnancy seems just too long to keep a brain dead woman alive. There is also nothing to suggest this is what the woman or the family wishes.

[Malika the Maiz]

Also, there’s no way to know what damage this could do to the fetus.

[Frank Drackman]

So kill him/her? Thats stupid even for you

[Malika the Maiz]

Yes it can be a better alternative than being born severely impaired. You know about impairment, you’ve written and perform a character here in a pathetic presentation!

[Moderation4ever]

Interesting take you got there. If the baby dies in utero the state prohibits treating the mother to remove the dead tissue and her death is natural. But if the mother dies the state commands her body become an incubator to keep the baby alive.

[Michael Ejercito]

If the baby dies in utero the state prohibits treating the mother to remove the dead tissue and her death is natural.
Can you share the text of the law that says exactly that?

[John F. Carr]

Is it possible to keep a brain dead person healthy for another six months? Brain dead is different from comatose. Even the brain stem is messed up.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

The name "Olsen" rang a bell. Yup. His case was cited in Oregon v. Smith, the big free exercise case. He has been on this mission since the 1980s.

https://religionclause.blogspot.com/2025/05/plaintiff-may-move-ahead-with-claim.html

[Malika the Maiz]

For those of you who, like me, hope to do some grilling on this Memorial Day, beef prices continue to be through the roof. I guess when he promised to lower prices on “the groceries” on “day one” the Mad King was talking about day one of his second year in office? Lol.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000703112

Additionally, I see he folded like the overnight crew at Old Navy on his EU tariffs. I guess he doesn’t want Americans to have all that money and jobs he said tariffs would produce after all!

[Frank Drackman]

Beef? I thought you were into the Sausage, me?, I'm Jewish, so I have to avoid the Pork, (unless I'm in the South, Jay-Hay grants exemptions for Pulled Pork*) But the gas to get to the store is cheaper so it evens out

Frank

* and my guilty pleasure, Vienna Sausages

[Malika the Maiz]

Nonsense persona particularly nonsensical today. Rattled writer needs a sabbatical to re-write!

[Moderation4ever]

Being from Wisconsin, Memorial day is the start of Bratwurst season. As for pork, I had a co-worker who was Jewish and whose wife made him toe-the-line on abstaining from pork. So, when we were on road trips together I always knew what he would chose on the menu. Whatever dish had pork. Chops, shank, roast, and bacon were always his go to foods.

[not guilty]

That calls to mind a story about a priest and a rabbi having a discussion about whether they had strayed from the rules they were each bound to follow.

The rabbi said that he had once yielded to temptation and eaten a ham sandwich. The priest allowed as to how he had once forsaken his vow and engaged in carnal pleasure with a young woman.

The rabbi replied, "And I'll bet that was a whole lot more enjoyable than my sandwich." ☺

[hobie]

I once saw a movie in which the president knew that he could manipulate the stock market by imposing then unimposing tariffs. Because he and his clan would be the only people in the world who would know ahead of time when these things would occur, they rode the shorts and longs and made a killing. And no one ever caught on. It was a sweet flick

[Malika the Maiz]

Truth is stranger than fiction?

More Than a Dozen U.S. Officials Sold Stocks Before Trump’s Tariffs Sent the Market Plunging

https://www.propublica.org/article/us-officials-stock-sales-trump-tariffs

[hobie]

Tony Montana said it best:

"This town [America] is like a great big pussy just waiting to get fucked"

[Riva]

And undoubtedly accurate reporting, I’m sure. But I doubt anyone could hold a candle to Nancy Pelosi and other Democrat representatives. Funny how they ignore things like that. Weird. Almost like they just want to spread rumors to harm the administration.

[Malika the Maiz]

You have to love Riva-bot’s programming failing to see the problem with responding to a charge of hypocrisy with whataboutism!

[hobie]

It's fun watching them dance, ain't it?

[Mr. Bumble]

Is that what you say about your neighbors?

[David Nieporent]

But also, the illiteracy — "Democrat representatives" — and the fact that its programmers were too lazy to input specifics, so all it can do is make vague references to Democrats.

[Riva]

You can parrot your bot porn fantasies all you want crazy Dave, although I am a little sickened that you seem obsesses with me. Please remember to keep your video feed off on any Zoom calls. You’ll thank me later.

[Riva]

I don’t mind a clever insult but trolls constantly parroting each other does get a bit stale. Get back to me when you can think on your own. At least give it try. You never know.

[Malika the Maiz]

Proof bots have not achieved self-awareness!

[Riva]

I wrote clever. This is not that thing. Don’t be like crazy Dave Toobin. Be your own man, or whatever you may be.

[Sarcastr0]

See the Toobin thing is bot-like behavior. Caught in some tired loop that a real person would have realized has zero resonance, and moved on from.

But bots have a limited set of responses, and do social queues. So here we are.

[Malika the Maiz]

It doesn’t get it because of course bots don’t.

[Riva]

Interesting that you should decide to make an appearance, little communist girl that never smiled. Not sure why you trolls are so intimidated by me but it's kind of amusing.

[Frank Drackman]

I saw a movie where a guy pretended to be a Veteran and got the snot beat out of him, it was quite disturbing

[hobie]

Frankie, you seem to be perpetually butt-hurt about some valor issues. It's a big reason why you earned the title 'America's neediest veteran'. You should Seik Heilp for that.

[John 4]

Did you see the one about the borderline illiterate yokel who was constantly humiliated in the comments section of a legal blog?

[Mr. Bumble]

There's a movie about hobie?

[Riva]

I can actually see Disney making another idiotic Star Wars production like that.

[Riva]

Uh huh. Interesting trip you were on. But don’t do it again. Drugs will hurt you.

[Brett Bellmore]

We're grilling chicken. Not for economy, just because my wife felt like chicken.

It's in the sous vide right now, seasoned, with some lemongrass. After 4 hours of that, we'll just finish up on the grill, along with some brats for any guests who don't want chicken.

Right now she's making the potato salad.

[hobie]

Best potato salad I make is the French version:

Yukons, of course. Then dressed while warm with red wine vinegar, olive oil, dijon, S&P, and tarragon. It works! It's interesting how tarragon tricks your tongue into thinking it is tasting something sweet.

[ThePublius]

That sounds great. Kinda like German potato salad. Do you serve it warm?

[hobie]

Yes, or room temp. The olive oil congeals if too cold and ruins the effect

[ThePublius]

Gotcha. The German style is good warm or cold. I'll have to try your recipe.

[Frank Drackman]

I think the Earths temp just went up a few degrees, please eat downwind

[Brett Bellmore]

Well, the sous vide chicken before grilling worked to perfection, so we're going to do that again. First time I've ever grilled chicken and had it cooked to the bone AND still tender and juicy.

[ThePublius]

Did you sous vide the whole chicken, or just parts of it? How did you prep it?

I am new to sous vide but have a good setup and have had great success with it, with steak and vegetables.

[Brett Bellmore]

My wife wanted all drumsticks, for some reason. (I don't like them, too many tendons.)

I dusted them with a commercial chicken rub, (Dirty Bird) then laid them in the bag with some lemongrass from our garden, and vacuumed them before the rub had drawn out much moisture. Then left them in the fridge overnight. In the morning, I just took the package out of the fridge, and into the oven using it's air sous vide function, (Really just a really low temperature convection oven setting.) at 145 for 4 hours.

Smelled really nice when they came out. Then straight to the grill for a char.

[Jmaie]

Time and temp, and what cuts? I've tried sous-vide for chicken with mixed results. Breast meat worked well but the dark meat texture was off. Also, didn't see any advantage for dark meat, generally got the color I wanted by the time the meat was tender...

[not guilty]

R.I.P. Phil Robertson of "Duck Dynasty" fame, dead at age 79.

He played quarterback at Louisiana Tech. His backup was Terry Bradshaw.

[Malika the Maiz]

“His backup was Terry Bradshaw.”

Wow, that is a fun fact!

[Frank Drackman]

Terry Bradshaw had Cameos in "Smokey & the Bandit 2" (not as good as "1") and "The Cannonball Run", Probably the peak of Jimmuh Cartuh's Malaise Error, Bandit stuck with an underpowered 1980 Turbo Trans-Am (210 Horsies, a 2025 4 Cylinder Mustang makes 315)

[Dr. Ed 2]

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a43619088/1980-pontiac-firebird-turbo-trans-am-by-the-numbers/

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Is Bradshaw the backup Duck Dynasty guy too?

[Moderation4ever]

Trump watch, Sunday the President repeatedly confused automaker Nissan for steelmaker Nippon. What is the Whitehouse staff hiding from the American people?

[Frank Drackman]

C'mon Man, all those Nips look alike, and it's not race-ist, they say the same thing about us round eyes.

[ThePublius]

A slip of the tongue, or a minor brain fart, is nothing in comparison to the abject senility of his predecessor.

Haven't you ever called something the wrong name, like, even perhaps your children, or your pets? That doesn't make you senile.

[Sarcastr0]

lol, have you no shame?

[ThePublius]

What does that mean?

[Moderation4ever]

So all I want to know from his staff is how often the President is farting. What are they hiding? Brain fart or diarrhea?

[ThePublius]

Interesting, you were completely uncurious when Biden was in office.

[Moderation4ever]

That is untrue. I suggested that neither Joe Biden nor Donald Trump should be candidates with their age being a significant factor. I myself voted for Nicki Halley in the primary and stated that a number of times in the comments. Certainly Joe Biden was slipping but the same was true for Donald Trump and you cannot judge these men with different standards. Not unless you are will to admit your hypocrisy.

[ThePublius]

What hypocrisy?

[Michael P]

He imagines, contrary to all the reasonable evidence, that Trump was at least as bad in 2024 as Biden was in 2020. We can contrast, for example, Trump's behavior at his first, interrupted, rally in Butler PA with all the mid-day "lids" that Biden had in 2020.

[Commenter_XY]

Mid-day? You mean 10am.

[Malika the Maiz]

“A slip of the tongue”

Slip Siding Away!

[John F. Carr]

Public defenders in Massachusetts are going on strike for higher pay.

Most indigent defendants are represented by private counsel who have agreed to be appointed to work at a state-set rate. That rate is $65 per hour for a misdemeanor and $85 per hour for a felony. They want more money and are going to stop taking new cases. A similar work stoppage in 2004 resulted in a small pay increase.

The 20% of indigent defendants represented by state employees at the Committee for Public Counsel Services are unaffected.

Following the 2004 dispute the Supreme Judicial Court developed a protocol for releasing defendants who are unable to obtain counsel. In general they have to be released after a week.

The legislature has to approve pay increases. Criminal defendants and low status lawyers are far down the legislature's list of priorities.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/05/25/metro/bar-advocates-court-appointed-massachusetts-pay/

[ThePublius]

I find it interesting, and a bit puzzling, that there's a rate difference for misdemeanors and felonies. And, I think the rates are rather low.

Have they ever considered a flat rate per case, like, say, $2500 for a criminal offense that doesn't go to trial, with an extra $2500 if it goes to trial?

[jb]

Seems like a really bad deal if you got assigned a capital murder case. Also it's seems like that would put even more pressure on public defenders to just plea out cases as quickly as possible--right now the incentives at least line up so that they'd want to do as much work as possible per case. That has its own problems, but given how few cases go to trial already, it seems like there's not much risk of the attorneys trying to get as many hours as possible out of each case.

[John F. Carr]

New Hampshire, Maine, and Rhode Island pay over $100 per hour.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Have you ever met some of these lawyers?
They aren't WORTH $100.hour...

[ThePublius]

And most of the defendants aren't worth $100 in total. 🙂

I'm sure there are some innocent or over-charged defendants, but for the most part I guess they are guilty in some way. Is that fair to say?

I recognize that there are rogue cops, too, and their victims need be defended.

[David Nieporent]

Have you ever met some of these lawyers?
They aren't WORTH $100.hour...

Dr. Ed still bitter about that conviction, I guess. But lawyers aren't miracle workers.

[bernard11]

He seems to be well-acquainted with public defenders. Wonder why?

[Noscitur a sociis]

I mean, I see where you’re going. But as with most other areas where Dr. Ed pretends expertise and personal knowledge, it’s because he’s lying.

[John F. Carr]

We need a cheaper form of legal education for lawyers in cheaper jobs.

[Drewski]

The feds use a flat rate for non-capital cases but cap the total based on the type of case. An appeal is treated as a separate case with its own cap. It's not a bad system on paper, but of course it's underfunded.

The problem with a bonus for going to trial is practical: Legislatures pretty universally want to incentivize the opposite for budgetary reasons. Even if you work it out such that the defense attorneys are making the same amount in the long run, the extra strain on court and administrative staff will cost tax dollars. You'd have to convince a lot of politicians, and their constituents, to spend money for the benefit of accused criminals. Higher-quality criminal justice is a good cause, but it's a steep hill to climb.

[Riva]

How much does one deserve per hour for advising your clients to plead guilty and or just accept whatever plea is offered by the government? They could just make a recording and take the day off. Soon it’ll be done with an AI tool.

[SRG2]

Guess who?

HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY TO ALL, INCLUDING THE SCUM THAT SPENT THE LAST FOUR YEARS TRYING TO DESTROY OUR COUNTRY THROUGH WARPED RADICAL LEFT MINDS, WHO ALLOWED 21,000,000 MILLION PEOPLE TO ILLEGALLY ENTER OUR COUNTRY, MANY OF THE BEING CRIMINALS AND THE MENTAO INSANE,THROUGH AN OPEN BORDER THAT ONLY AN INCOMPETENT PRESIDENT WOULD APPROVE, AND THROUGH JUDGES WHO ARE ON A MISSION TO KEEP MURDERERS, DRUG DEALERS, RAPISTS, GANG MEMBERS, AND RELEASED PRISONERS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, IN OUR COUNTRY SO THEY CAN ROB, MURDERERS, AND RAPE AGAIN, PROTECTED BY THESE USA HATING JUDGES WHO SUFFER FROM AN IDEOLOGY THAT IS SICK, AND VERY DANGEROUS FOR OUR COUNTRY. HOPEFULLY THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT, AND OTHER GOOD AND COMPASSIONATE JUDGES THROUGHOUT THE LAND, WILL SAVE US FROM THE DECISIONS OF THE MONSTERS WHO WANT OUR COUNTRY TO GO TO HELL.

[Malika the Maiz]

The Mad King! Conservative populism!

lol, I wonder if Publius, who clutches pearls at insulting language here, fainted when he read that?

[ThePublius]

You misinterpret me. I'm not opposed to or offended by quoted bad language, or the views of others quoted here, or even the views of commenters. I just wish people would be civil to one another on here, and avoid the use of foul language and personal insults.

[Malika the Maiz]

I think it’s far worse for a President to do that in or to the public, like Trump. He tosses insults faster than Donkey Kong does barrels. I find that to be a bigger deal than folks on a legal blog discussion board. YMMV.

[ThePublius]

You can't hold me responsible for what Trump says or does! And how that compares to a legal blog is immaterial.

[Malika the Maiz]

I mean, being more upset about a rando on internet comments being rude than the POTUS seems odd. We should expect our Presidents to at least try to comport themselves better.

[ThePublius]

Why do you think I'm more upset about one or the other? You have a habit of imputing feelings of others. Speak for yourself.

I don't think his expression was appropriate on this day, but then, he's not wrong.

[Malika the Maiz]

You’ve complained about people insulting othered here yet support a President who insults people publicly in an unprecedented fashion and amount. Calling it in the former but not the latter is deeply hypocritical of the partisan variety.

[ThePublius]

You're a dog-faced pony soldier, fat!

[Malika the Maiz]

That’s a pretty sad attempt at false equivalency I guess?

[Sarcastr0]

That's TP for 'I have lost the argument.'

[bernard11]

You can't hold me responsible for what Trump says or does!

Why not? You're a dedicated cultist.

[ThePublius]

Oh, give me a break! That's ridiculous. Do I hold you responsible for what Joe Biden and his entourage say or do?

I'm not a cultist. I'm a pragmatist. I reject the current liberal, progressive movement and philosophy. I am a conservative, a constitutionalist. Trump is simply the best game in town at this point.

[Malika the Maiz]

There’s lots of conservative alternatives if people like you who identify that way held Trump to the same principles you do internet randos. You excuse, and therefore encourage, his unprecedented boorishness (which then excuses, and encourages it in many of his followers) and clutch pearls when someone here does it? C’mon.

[ThePublius]

Get lost, why are you so interested in what I think? Are you yet another VC troll?

[Malika the Maiz]

I simply point out your partisan hypocrisy. it’s pretty obvious so no deep interest is necessary and it’s a common phenomenon among so many Trump supporters (most would be repelled by his boorishness if they encountered it in their daily lives but they put up with and excuse it politically because they’re “aching for that upper-class tax cut” so to speak).

[ThePublius]

I don't get the "hypocrisy" comment. Is that just some term you throw around for people you don't like, without understanding what it means? How am I hypocritical?

[Malika the Maiz]

It’s hypocrisy to clutch pearls when a rando insults folks and say nothing when the President you support does the same. I’m not sure how that could be plainer.

[Michael P]

Each of us can control what he himself writes. We have no such control over Trump. You should stop trying to excuse your own awful behavior by pointing at him.

[Malika the Maiz]

Not surprised you don’t get it MAGA Mikie, I’m not defending my behavior by pointing to Trump’s and I’m not criticizing you (and Publius) for your boorish behavior, but rather for your complaining about awful behavior by commenters here but saying nothing or defending it when your President does worse. It’s rank partisan hypocrisy.

[Michael P]

Donald Trump doesn't read the comments here, or (to the best of my knowledge) see or hear anything else I write or say.

This may be confusing to you, since you can only recognize that both he and I are vastly more observant, informed and intelligent than you, but I assure you that this is not sufficient to give me influence over what he sees or hears, much less what he says.

In words that you might be able to understand: "If you wanna make the world a better place / Take a look at yourself and then make a change." Start with those things you can affect, instead of ranting impotently about things you cannot.

[Malika the Maiz]

If you and many other MAGAs criticized Trump’s boorishness in front of other MAGAs I think it could actually cause a change in his approach: he’s a true political coward (as his stumbling and backtracking on abortion demonstrates).

But that’s not my point here. If you tell your friends you detest people that wear a suit and tie a lot and then someone brings up Trump’s propensity to wear suits and ties and you say nothing or defend him, then you are a hypocrite on your professed dislike of wearing suits.

I get it’s hard to try to style yourself as an intellectual person and yet swear fealty to a silly person who literally styles himself as a King. But don’t expect others not to point out the ridiculous things you feel the need to say (or not say) when on your knees before him.

[jb]

Definitely interesting to contrast to Lincoln's speech above.

[bernard11]

The god that MAGA worships speaks.

[Armchair]

The coming Democrat Civil War.

Interesting piece by Jonathan Chait

On one side, you have the special interest focus groups. These are the single-issue focus groups that get increasingly more extreme in their positions, and simultaneously back the other special interest groups fully. Enivor-climate change group + trans/Civil rights group + abortion rights/groups + max immigration (etc) groups.

The other side is the "abundance agenda" side of moderate democrats who seek to carve back government restrictions in order to build things.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coming-democratic-civil-war-130000832.html

[Malika the Maiz]

Do you know what a focus group is?

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

That dude with smelly hairy balls playing girls volleyball single-handedly added $5 trillion to the debt!! So hilarious.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

As Memorial Day messages go, I favor quoting the Gettysburg Address over the option provided by the current commander-in-chief.

Then, there was Kamala Harris:

On Memorial Day, we honor the brave service members who have made the ultimate sacrifice on behalf of our nation.

We owe these heroes and their loved ones everything, and we will always remember what they have done to protect our freedom.

[Mr. Bumble]

Does that include the thirteen who die at Abbeygate?

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Or Manbij…you are so hilarious!

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Or Trump when honoring Shannon Kent,

“Maybe I should have waited until all the troops had withdrawn before blowing up our munitions? My bad.”

[Michael P]

Some DEI hire who dropped out of the 2020 presidential nomination race in 2019 went to Australia recently to declare:

I don’t hear no. I eat no for breakfast. I don’t hear no until maybe the tenth time. I can’t begin to tell you the number of times it has been explicitly or implicitly said to me – it’s not your time. You’re not ready, they’re not ready.

Both her party and her country would have been better served if she had listened to that good advice. The US is indeed not far along the path of Idiocracy to be ready for her to lead the country.

[Michael P]

(moved)

[Malika the Maiz]

“I don’t hear no”

Was this part of Trump’s testimony in the Carroll trial?

[Sarcastr0]

DEI hire
Just say nigger.

It's very clear this just means that.

[Malika the Maiz]

Probably means “bitch” too or more.

[Magister]

That's exactly what Michael P said.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Just say nigger."

You first. DEI isn't a right-wing term.

[not guilty]

Kvetching about "DEI" is a right wing shtick.

[Bwaaah]

Endorsement of a system in which less qualified people are promoted over more qualified people, based solely on racial/ethnic/sexual characteristics, is left wing shtick.

Any criticism of that system is what you call "kvetching." And anybody who criticizes that system is a "right winger."

That's a pretty small tent you have there, with room for lots of clowns inside.

[Michael P]

The left throws another Black woman under the euphemism treadmill. Sad!

[Sarcastr0]

Wasn't hard to go from DEI hire to capital-B-Black woman, was it?

[Michael P]

https://x.com/rayalexwilliams/status/1891621605027065935?s=12

One of the worst parts of my trans identification was how much it made me literally fear children because of the potential for them to cut through polite liberal niceties and point out the obvious fact that I was born male.

We even have a fairy tale dedicated to that observation about children. Hm.

[Malika the Maiz]

That MAGA Mikie thinks children are good sources for facts explains a lot. You also have to love the allusion to a fairy tale about a pompous emperor by a guy who swears fealty to a guy who calls himself a king. Self-awareness, how does it work?

[Brett Bellmore]

You know, humans actually have neural circuits for distinguishing men from women, it's that important. Little babies can do it, as a result. As can children.

Enough training can get you to ignore their output at a conscious level, I suppose.

[SRG2]

Ever heard of optical illusions? Neural circuits are not invariably reliable judges of reality (even though that legendary fuckwit Ayn Rand thought so.)_

[Sarcastr0]

Since we don't walk around naked, which gender is which is as much social cues from clothing and hair as it is boobs and hips.

Don't take the personal statement of someone on the ex-trans gravy train as a generalizable truth.
There's lots of incentives for them to lie, and even if telling the truth their experience is going to be rarified just based on who they are.

[Malika the Maiz]

The thing people like MAGA Mikie or Kaz worked hard to argue was: Hunter and James Biden worked in other countries and fields where their relative the VP or President worked to form policy in those countries and fields. They further argue there is proof that Hunter, James and the VP/President enriched themselves in these situations.

Well, as Trump travels to and is forming trade policy with a bunch of countries his sons are working in them and the deals they seek will enrich both them and Trump.

How is this different?

They’ve offered two responses: 1. the Trumps have been working in other countries for a while.

OK, but A. Biden activity in these areas preceded Biden as VP or President and B. So what? Trump’s President now so the same conflict of interest arises.

2. Whatabout Biden’s!!!! This might be good to prove hypocrisy, but is no defense of what Trump et al are currently doing.

Here’s the thing, let’s put forward a neutral principle: A sitting President or his family having business in other nations raises conflict of interest questions and these should be a matter of concern. Now, who would like to argue against that?
As

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Qatar is arguably America’s most important ally…so the Deep State obviously got ahead of Trump’s corruption and encouraged them to just give him the plane. In Trump’s first term MBS showered Trump with billions and he chose Saudi Arabia over Qatar before finally getting Qatar to help him surrender to the Taliban.

[Bored Lawyer]

Two Harvard students who assaulted Jewish peer receive honors, $65,000 fellowship
In October 2023, Ibrahim Bharmal and Elom Tettey-Tamaklo surrounded a Jewish student named Yoav Segev and covered him with keffiyehs while shouting “Shame! Shame! Shame!”

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-855490

"The Harvard Law Review website says its $65,000 fellowship goes to recent Harvard Law School graduates “with a demonstrated interest in serving the public interest through their work and scholarship."

Moral of the story: assaulting Jews pays. At least at Harvard.

{Note also the slap on the wrist they got from a MA judge. And that Harvard itself did nothing to discipline them.]

Sorry, I don't want one penny of tax dollars to go to Harvard. Let them eat their multi-billion dollar endowment.

[Sarcastr0]

Sorry, I don't want one penny of tax dollars to go to Harvard. Let them eat their multi-billion dollar endowment.

Your punishment doesn't fit the crime. But you spend a ton of time online looking for stuff to hate on behalf of Jews you don't know. Many of whom may very well disagree with what you favor in their name.

You behave like an SJW of the right.

[Brett Bellmore]

It's a punishment to stop subsidizing Harvard?

No, it's just a reasonable response to what Harvard has become.

Look, you can't even bring yourself to engage with what Bored Lawyer has pointed out: These two weren't just kept on as students, they were lauded as exemplars!

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

I just wish Clinton would have deported every Cuban that protested the Elian Gonzalez court ruling. Hopefully the next president will send ICE to clean out Miami!

[Sarcastr0]

Grants are not subsidies.

For the hundredth time.

You have no idea what Harvard has become. You've done no work
BECAUSE YOU DON"T CARE.
Trump's enemy is all you need to hear to start defending to the hilt, while complaining how reluctant you are.

I don't care about BL's anecdote. Because as I said BL is raging on behalf of America Jews and supporting stuff that most of them do not want.

He's a zealot. You're a tool.

[Josh R]

Whether it is a subsidy or a grant, the government cannot condition it on Harvard expressing its opinion (no matter how odious that opinion ma be).

[Bored Lawyer]

Expressing an opinion? Really?

A group of students get together to harass a student based on his nationality, committing a low-level crime in the process. School sits on its hands and does nothing. If you think the First Amendment bars the government from withholding funds on that basis, you don't understand the First Amendment.

[Sarcastr0]

Do you have a case to cite?

There was a post not long ago about unconstitutional conditions.

https://reason.com/volokh/2025/05/25/mitchell-berman-on-conditional-federal-grants-and-the-constitution/?comments=true#comments

[Josh R]

Harvard is under no legal obligation to discipline them beyond what the judge ruled unless this case is used as evidence of pervasive discrimination by Harvard against Jews (for which Harvard gets due process in defense).

The opinion is rewarding one of students as a class marshal and the other with a fellowship.

[tylertusta]

True, but only if it was the opinion alone.

It's also about their actions and inaction, too.

For example, under Title VI, if a school knows about but is indifferent to the discriminatory practices of its students, the university is liable.

Except here the universities were at best indifferent to what was happening to their Jewish students. Their public statements show that they took the side of the antisemites.

[David Nieporent]

Note also the slap on the wrist they got from a MA judge.

I expect this from some of the commenters here, but you're a lawyer; you should know better. What do you think the normal outcome is for an assault where the victim wasn't harmed — indeed, it's unclear if he was even touched — and the offense involved blocking his path and holding up cloth? They were in the wrong, but pretrial diversion is all any reasonable person would expect on these facts. Indeed, if this had been in any other context, the DA would likely have declined to even take the case at all.

[Bored Lawyer]

You assume that politically motivated crime should be treated the same as any other. I don't. These people think their cause permits them to break the law. That requires a harsher response than, if, say, the guy was made because the other guy winked at his girlfriend.

[Bored Lawyer]

I should also add, this was a concerted effort (you could call it a conspiracy) by a group of people to harass someone. Again, not the same as a one-off.

Imagine if this was a group of white supremacists blocking the path of a black student trying to get to class. Do you think they would get diversion to an anger management class.

[David Nieporent]

That requires a harsher response than, if, say, the guy was made because the other guy winked at his girlfriend.

I think that was covered by "Indeed, if this had been in any other context, the DA would likely have declined to even take the case at all."

[Armchair]

Well, here's a case of assault where the victim wasn't even touched...The individual pled guilty.

Sentence was 30 months in jail.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/olympia-washington-resident-pleads-guilty-threatening-federal-worker-and-agrees-hate

[David Nieporent]

Hmmm. Why might someone who threatened to kill someone, who had an extensive criminal history, be treated more seriously than people who waved scarves around?

[ThePublius]

"where the victim wasn't harmed"

"Harm" does not necessarily require physical harm, it can be psychological harm, threats of violence, and so forth.

It's shameful of you to minimize what these thugs have done. They didn't simply "wave cloths around." They did, indeed, assault the Jewish student. The court determined that to be the case.

"While Bharmal and Tettey-Tamaklo originally faced a criminal trial, Boston Municipal Court Judge Stephen W. McClenon dismissed the charges at the end of April, instead ordering them to attend “pre-trial diversion” anger management courses and perform 80 hours of community service."

This was not the 'nothing' that you seem to portray it as.

[Commenter_XY]

Agree = Sorry, I don't want one penny of tax dollars to go to Harvard. Let them eat their multi-billion dollar endowment.

If the antisemitism wasn't enough, there is also the collaboration with the CCP.

[not guilty]

"If the antisemitism wasn't enough, there is also the collaboration with the CCP."

Supporting facts regarding the latter?

[Sarcastr0]

There are serious federal reporting requirements to ensure that researchers don't work for the CCP.
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-memorandum-united-states-government-supported-research-development-national-security-policy/

Best I could find was a DHS memo linking to a Washington Examiner piece that quoted some allegations from a GOP representative.

The China Select Committee used to do good work. Now it's just another Trump tool.
China, I'm sure, is quite pleased.

[not guilty]

Still waiting, XY. To what collaboration with the CCP do you refer?

[not guilty]

XY, when you make incendiary allegations and then, when challenged, run away like a scalded dog, that shows a deficit of character.

What "collaboration with the CCP" are you talking about?

[Krayt]

385 posts in an Open thread. Pathetic.

[Mr. Bumble]

Holiday weekend. What did you expect?

[ThePublius]

I think it may be the result of the strident anti-Trump, anti-conservative crowd of commenters here. They immediately slap down those who express views they do not share, and do so in an often personally insulting manner, and often irrationally and disingenuously way. It squelches comment and debate. No one wants to be subjected to that. So, the leftist, progressive crowd rules the roost, and those on the other side just decline to comment or participate.

Many online forums degenerate to this, like reddit, for example. If you are familiar with the NY Times commenters, or those the Washington Post, you will see what I mean.

[Brett Bellmore]

Hiking, grilling, rebuilding a boat trailer I got really cheap. I've actually been pretty busy.

[ThePublius]

Harvard Medical School morgue manager admits to stealing organs, selling them on the black market

https://nypost.com/2025/05/24/us-news/harvard-medical-school-morgue-manager-pleads-guilty-to-stealing-selling-donated-body-parts/

What the story doesn't explain, and what I don't get, is who is buying these organs, and why?

[John F. Carr]

Back in 2004 media personality Alistair Cooke's bones were stolen and sold for $7,000 to be used for bone grafts. Two of the people responsible were sentenced to lengthy prison terms.

[ThePublius]

Wow, that's bizarre. That would require the surgeons performing the bone grafts to be in on that, no?

[John F. Carr]

The people who removed the bones falsified paperwork to make them look legitimate.

[not guilty]

The Department of Homeland Security continues to flout court orders. On April 18, 2025, a federal District Court in Massachusetts issued a Preliminary Injunction, which required Defendants to tell class members about their third-country removals in advance and to give them a “meaningful opportunity” to show or explain why they qualify for CAT protection.

The Court thereafter found that the Defendants had violated the injunction. Even after finding that violation, however, the Court stayed its hand and did not require Defendants to bring the individuals back to the United States, as requested by Plaintiffs.

On May 21, 2025 the Court ordered that the Defendants take certain remedial measures for having violated the injunction. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.282404/gov.uscourts.mad.282404.119.0_1.pdf It appears from an order entered yesterday that the Defendants remain non-compliant. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.282404/gov.uscourts.mad.282404.135.0.pdf

How long will it take before judges realize that Trump administration officials who walk about in the free world and then go home to sleep in their own beds are never going to comply with court orders? The civil contempt authority is there for a reason; it is high time that judges rise to the occasion and check these scofflaws in to the graybar hotel?

[Mr. Bumble]

Well, it high time for something.

[tylertusta]

How long will it take before judges realize that Trump administration officials who walk about in the free world and then go home to sleep in their own beds are never going to comply with court orders?

That answer depends on whether they actually care if they have jurisdiction or not.

How long will it take for a majority of SCOTUS to realize that district courts- largely deprived of jurisdiction under the INA- are in the process of dismantling Congress's laws?

[John F. Carr]

When it comes to removing aliens, the battle for the hearts and minds of the Supreme Court justices is turning against the administration. Trump is probably going to pull out some wins in domestic policy.

[tylertusta]

I don't agree, but we shall see.

[not guilty]

tylertusta, inferior federal courts exercise the jurisdiction that is assigned to them by Congress. The original complaint in the case arising out of Massachusetts, https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.282404/gov.uscourts.mad.282404.1.0_2.pdf , avers at ¶¶7-8:

7. This case arises under the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. § 1101 et seq., the regulations implementing the INA, the Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998 (FARRA), Pub. L. No. 105–277, div. G, Title XXII, § 2242(a), 112 Stat. 2681, 2681–822 (1998) (codified as Note to 8 U.S.C. § 1231), the regulations implementing the FARRA, the Administrative Procedure Act (APA), 5 U.S.C. § 701 et seq.; and 5 U.S.C. § 552 et. seq.

8. This Court has jurisdiction pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1331, as the instant case is a civil action arising under the laws of the United States. For Plaintiffs in immigration custody, 28 U.S.C. § 2241 also provides jurisdiction. The Court may grant declaratory and injunctive relief pursuant to 5 U.S.C. §§ 705-06, 28 U.S.C. § 1651, 28 U.S.C. §§ 2201–02, 28 U.S.C. § 2241, and its equitable powers. The government has waived its sovereign immunity pursuant to 5 U.S.C. § 702.

What Congressional enactment, if any, do you claim deprives the District Court of jurisdiction in this matter?

[not guilty]

Still waiting, tylertusta. Man up and admit that you are talking out your ass.

[John F. Carr]

The second document begins: "Defendants have mischaracterized this Court’s order".

It may be hard to identify individuals who removed aliens in knowing violation of a court order. It's not hard to find lawyers who are being dishonest with the court. A threat of sanctions might change their attitude.

[David Nieporent]

In that case, Rubio submitted a declaration explaining how the evil courts are harming our relations with foreign countries. The trouble is, what it actually showed was that the administration's actions were harming those relations.

And in the order linked above, he caught poor Drew Ensign in yet another lie. They claimed that he ordered some deportees to be held by the U.S. at our base in Djibouti, which harmed our relationship with Djibouti. But he didn't order that at all! Ensign was the one who suggested that, as an alternative to bringing them back to the U.S.

And once again, the government took a monstrous position: that it was okay to deport these Central Americans to South Sudan without giving them a hearing because the government said, "We're sending you to South Sudan" and they didn't immediately say, "We're afraid of going there," as if these unrepresented people would have any idea what conditions were like in South Sudan. And even though Ensign claimed that 24 hours' notice was sufficient, the government didn't even give that much!

[not guilty]

At a minimum, the District Court should refer Mr. Ensign to attorney disciplinary authorities in Arizona. This is not the first occasion that he has lied to a court.

[John F. Carr]

On this day in 1960 the Turkish military launched the first of its four successful coups. At the time the military was supposed to defend democracy and Western values. The most recent, failed, coup attempt was in 2016. Not a good look for a candidate EU member.

Tukish state media calls the coup a black mark on Turkey's history. The coups were meant to keep people like Erdogan out of power.

[M L]

Trump Looking to Redirect $3 Billion in Harvard Grants to U.S. Trade Schools
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/05/26/trump-looking-to-redirect-3-billion-in-harvard-grants-to-u-s-trade-schools/

Let's consider a bit of common sense. Which of these options benefits the American working class more? 3 billion to Harvard, or 3 billion to trade schools?

I wonder what any hard working blue collar American would think, when tired after a long day, of the fact that 3 billion of his tax dollars are going to Harvard. But I'm sure his opinion is just that of an ignorant rube who doesn't know what's good for him, actually, right?

Especially when 60% of their Kennedy school is foreigners:
Harvard’s Kennedy School Could Lose 60% of Students Under International Ban
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/05/27/harvards-kennedy-school-could-lose-60-of-students-under-international-ban/

[Sarcastr0]

hard working blue collar American
Nothing says legit like elites telling us what non-elites Truly Think.

Never mind the importance of basic research as the root of plenty of companies and enabling technologies.

ML would like to invoke the moral authority Real Americans on behalf of Trump's war on Harvard.

[M L]

hard working blue collar American
ML would like to hold forth on what these Real Americans think

If you're interested, sure, I could tell you a lot. Just like you could tell me a lot about what beltway bureaucrats and leftwing metrosexuals think. We'll both be fascinated to learn different perspectives I'm sure. 🙂

[Sarcastr0]

Not being a salesperson, I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself.

You. by contrast, spend a lot of time trying to sell.

[David Nieporent]

Let's consider a bit of common sense. Which of these options benefits the American working class more? 3 billion to Harvard, or 3 billion to trade schools?

Which is more likely to result in a cure for, say, Parkinson's Disease or autism? A $3 billion medical research grant to Harvard? Or a $3 billion medical research grant to Lincoln Tech?

[Mr. Bumble]

So Harvard is the only institution doing medical research?
Piss off.

[John F. Carr]

In the short term the revenue from Harvard's federal contracts can be replaced by spending down the endowment and soliciting donations. In the long term somebody else will be President. Harvard's foreign students are hard to replace and impossible to replace quickly.

[David Nieporent]

Out of the set {Harvard University, trade schools}, Harvard is the only institution doing medical research.

[ThePublius]

I could be wrong, but isn't this a classical strawman argument? I mean, you're the one who brought up trade schools in comparison to Harvard, and then you point out that "out of the set {Harvard University, trade schools}, Harvard is the only institution doing medical research." Well, yea, but you might as well have compared Harvard to a ham sandwich and made the same point.

If you want Harvard to do research, then go ahead and donate to Harvard. But don't force me at the point of a spear to support what they do there.

[Sarcastr0]

I mean, you're the one who brought up trade schools in comparison to Harvard
That was ML.

don't force me at the point of a spear to support what they do there.
Way to go failing social contract 101.
You lost too many elections if you want to change US research funding.
You elected Trump; he's not in the position to make the change you want. But you'll advocate for him to break some laws to get there.

Anything is justified to purge the libs, eh?

[M L]

"You lost too many elections if you want to change US research funding."

Not sure what that means. You mean current members of Congress don't support changes to US research funding?

[David Nieporent]

I mean, you're the one who brought up trade schools in comparison to Harvard,

I mean, it's weird for you to lie about this when all one has to do is scroll upwards to see that M L is the one who brought up trade schools (well, Trump did first, but M L did here):

Trump Looking to Redirect $3 Billion in Harvard Grants to U.S. Trade Schools
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/05/26/trump-looking-to-redirect-3-billion-in-harvard-grants-to-u-s-trade-schools/

Let's consider a bit of common sense. Which of these options benefits the American working class more? 3 billion to Harvard, or 3 billion to trade schools?

[ThePublius]

Ah, that is correct. Not a lie, a mistake.

[M L]

Yes, I almost added to my post, Bonus question: How about none of the above?

Even better, IMO. My guess is that shifting the spend rather than cutting is calculated to be more politically popular.

[M L]

There has been plenty of scientific progress that didn't require tax dollars. Jonas Salk didn't get taxpayer money for example.