The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
How Political Ignorance Helped Cause the January 6 Attack and Trump's Subsequent Political Comeback
Voter ignorance and bias in evaluating political information were major factors in both.

Today is the fourth anniversary of the January 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol, and - ironically - also the date Congress certifies Donald Trump's victory in the 2024 presidential election. As I have previously written, widespread voter ignorance and bias in evaluating political information played a major role in both causing the attack, and facilitating Trump's subsequent political comeback.
I wrote about the role of ignorance and bias in causing the attack in a 2022 post.As explained there, ignorance and partisan bias enabled Trump to persuade a large part of the GOP base that the 2020 election was somehow stolen from him, even though that claim was a blatant lie.
More recently, Trump's 2024 win was itself facilitated by ignorance, in ways I outlined in a post written just before election day:
Ignorance and bias are playing a huge role in Trump's relative success. Polls consistently show that a third or more of Americans - including a large majority of Republicans - believe Trump's lies about the 2020 election, despite the overwhelming evidence against them, including numerous court decisions rejecting Trumpian claims of voter fraud (including some written by conservative judges appointed by Trump himself). Ignorance and partisan bias are great enough that many millions of GOP base voters reject fairly obvious facts here. If you believe the 2020 election was "stolen" from Trump, then his reaction may well seem justified, or at least excusable.
But this isn't the full story. If Trump only had the support of voters who actually believe his lies about the 2020 election, he could still have won the 2024 GOP nomination. But he would be losing the general election in a landslide of about 60-40 or even more. He remains competitive with Kamala Harris because there are many voters (probably around 10-15% or so of the electorate) who reject his take on 2020, but prioritize other issues, such as the economy or immigration.
Here, more conventional political ignorance is playing a role. Surveys indicate that the economy is the highest priority for voters, including swing voters, and many are angry about the inflation and price increases that took place in 2021-23…. Swing voters blame incumbent Democrats for the inflation and price increases, even though actually both parties supported the policies that caused them (primarily massive Covid-era spending). Even worse, they tend to think Trump will bring down prices, even though his agenda of massive tariff increases and immigration restrictions would predictably raise them.
The problem of voter ignorance and biased evaluation of information isn't limited to GOP voters or the political right. It's a serious problem on the left, too, though right-wing version more immediately dangerous now. See my discussion of left-wing ignorance and bias here.
Sadly, there is no quick and easy solution to these problems. But I go over various possible strategies in this 2023 article. See also my book Democracy and Political Ignorance (introduction available for free here) for much more extensive analysis of the problem and possible solutions.
I've been writing about the dangers of political ignorance since long before the rise of Trump, beginning with my 1998 article "Voter Ignorance and the Democratic Ideal." Early on, it was mostly left-liberals who opposed me, arguing ignorance is not much of a problem. In the Trump era, the ideological and partisan valence of political ignorance has flipped. But it remains a grave danger, nonetheless.
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tl;dr...Professor Somin remains in denial. 🙂
About what?
That people knowingly reject his globalist marxist garbage.
Since that didn't happen, he can't be in denial about it.
You think people are embracing the globalist marxist garbage?
Are you for real?
I think you aren't very good at logic.
This isn't logical:
I say X happened.
Say X didn't happen.
I say !X happened.
You say "you're not very good at logic, hurr durr drool"
X = people rejected Y. You failed logic when you claimed !X is people accepted Y. The correct !X is people accepted, are neutral, or (as is this case here) expressed no opinion one way or the other on Y.
Acceptance is binary sir.
You either do or you don't.
Oh really? So do you accept or reject Trump's plan to balloon the debt?
It's binary if you give answer. The voters did give an answer one way or the other.
The narratives around the national debt and deficits are fictions and lies.
No one is ever going to do anything about them and they only become scare tactics when deployed for the Washington Shuffle aka Kabuki Theater.
Randal - what plan to "balloon the debt"?
The narratives around the national debt and deficits are fictions and lies.
Randal - what plan to "balloon the debt"?
Man are you two good at falling into traps! Now to return to the point...
As Riders in the Sky are fond of saying, if the world were a logical place, men would ride side saddle.
You're talking out of your ass. Ilya Somin is no more Marxist than you are.
When it comes to immigration, there isn't a dime's worth of difference between Marxists and Libertarians (of which Somin belongs).
No one is talking out of their ass.
I've never seen a Marxist state that didn't have over the top border security. Mostly to keep people in, of course, but they had it.
That's pretty different from the libertarian position, which even when it doesn't embrace freedom of entry, ALWAYS embraces freedom of exit.
In fairness, I'm referring to the Marxists who are letting people in our own country. Point taken otherwise.
This is both factually wrong and logically stupid. Marxists do not favor "open borders." Indeed, MAGA has more in common with Marxists on immigration than libertarians do; obviously the first two disagree on the racism, but their economic views are similar. (Indeed, Bernie Sanders' reaction when asked about "open borders" a few years ago was, " "No, that’s a Koch brothers proposal.” And he has routinely criticized the H1B program in the same terms (again, minus the racism) that MAGA has been doing lately.) In fact, MAGA has far more in common with Marxists on economics generally.
And of course it's a dumb argument even if it were true. Libertarians hold some views on some issues that are similar to conservatives, some views on some issues that are similar to liberals, maybe even some views on some issues that are similar to Marxists. (But not to MAGA, who are not conservative.) But that doesn't make libertarians conservative, liberal, or Marxist; it means that each of those groups isn't wrong 100% of the time.
Are you ignorant or just lying?
https://marxist.com/why-marxists-oppose-immigration-controls.htm
https://www.marxist.com/video-why-marxists-must-fight-for-open-borders.htm
https://www.leftvoice.org/Why-Socialists-Have-Always-Fought-for-Open-Borders/
https://communist.red/why-marxists-must-fight-for-open-borders/
I mean I can keep going.
You seem really really uninformed on most subjects.
I suppose it would be clearest to say that Marxists don't advocate open borders for Marxist countries, but do for everywhere else.
Nice turn on a dime, Brett.
Akin to 'Race Mixing is Communism' everything you don't like is Marxism.
Nothing in Marxist economics talks about borders or nationalism.
You can confirmation bias a leftist saying just about anything you want, of course. Pretty sad display to spend time doing that and think it proves anything about Marxism.
I'm just observing that all supposedly Marxist countries have robust border controls, bordering on prison level, while Marxists outside of Marxist countries generally oppose the countries they're in controlling their border.
Sure, this isn't part of Marxist economics, it's just a tactic.
1. How many Marxist countries are there these days? China, Cuba, North Korea...
2. The 3 links above, pretty clearly from a web search designed for such, do not allow a 'generally' statement.
The labor economics/union side are all for robust border controls. The rest of it, I hesitate to venture either way.
From bing copilot:
are marxists for or against open borders
Marxists generally support the idea of open borders. This stance aligns with their broader principles of internationalism and the dissolution of class divisions1. Karl Marx himself argued that the working class should unite across national boundaries to fight against capitalist exploitation. ...
So, while the core Marxist ideology leans towards open borders, there are nuanced discussions and debates within the movement about the practical implications of such policies2.
One of the links is to a page generated by ChatGPT. Today's Marxism, rewritten by AI, might be unrecognizable to Marx.
He is ignorant about politics and its processes. It is going to be a long four years for the poor guy.
Somin pays no attention to the facts that refute his positions. He will just go on saying the same silly things.
I didn't read, because it obviously wouldn't address the uncomfortable-to-Somin truth that a bunch of ignorant people were fooled by Democrat hacks, whether politicians or flacks or legacy media (a la Ben Rhodes's comment that the average journalist literally knows nothing) or social media censors, and as a result voted poorly in 2020. Many of those people learned their lesson the hard way in the next four years, and as a result 2024 came out the way that a more honest 2020 would have ended.
If only we weren't so ignorant we'd all be for mutilating little children with sex change surgery and drugs, institutional/legal punishment for misgendering, lawfare on political opponents, and electing either literal walking corpses that even their own party admit are going senile or random empty suits from the radical out of step with the rest of the nation elite San Francisco political establishment that are hurriedly drafted into replacing them. We'd be all for this if we weren't just missing some facts the great Ilya knows. He hasn't mentioned or indicated them at all but maybe he'll get around to it someday.
Whiney anti-elitism and bringing in trans stuff sure is a lot of deflection!
Great comment! I particularly appreciate your cherry-picking. As they always call you "AddSoMuch0toTheConversation0"!!
J20 and America 2.0 can't come soon enough.
Who do you think will hire you? Anyone? Maybe some state government agency that doesn't have any standards?
Man, I only just realized you're White Pride/Blonde Jesus. You got another account banned and still can't take a hint, I take it?
I wasn't banned, you clown. I felt like changing my nick, put a poll up, and this won.
Do you know what got the second highest vote total?
DrewskiTheHomoski
That isn't true, because I had your account muted.
He even posted under both nicks in the same thread last week.
More recently, Trump's 2024 win was itself facilitated by ignorance
In other words, Somin thinks Trump won only because too many voters are dumb bastards. If they were simply as intelligent as Somin, Harris or Biden would have won easily.
This why people despise Open Borders Ilya. What an arrogant SOB.
Rational ignorance is not about people being dumb bastards. Rather the opposite, actually.
I'm not sure I walk with Somin on it, but it's not pejorative.
Well, not pejorative except from the point of view of the folks Somin calls ignorant. They, being ignorant, think it's plenty pejorative.
People are always going to take it as an insult when you refuse to engage with their reasoning, and just claim they'd agree with you if they weren't so ignorant.
That's what I dislike most about Somin: He really does not engage meaningfully with people who disagree with him. He has trouble accepting that you can disagree with him after thoughtful and informed consideration.
Somin isn't a bad guy, he doesn't dislike his adopted country, quite the contrary: He loves it too much to sensibly reason.
He got pulled out of the sea into the lifeboat, and he loves the lifeboat. He thinks the lifeboat is the greatest thing ever. He loves it so much that he wants to share it with everybody in the world.
And he wants to share it so badly he can't accept that if he got his way he'd sink it. That the America he loves would be destroyed if he got his open borders.
The people disagreeing with him aren't ignorant, for the most part. They're operating from a different moral starting point. Somin is a universalist, he thinks our moral obligations are to humanity at large, that we are morally obligated to be concerned as much about the welfare of somebody on the other side of the planet, as our neighbor.
Most people aren't universalists, they think they have particular obligations to those around them, that come before people outside the group. And so they're not advocating policies designed to help the whole world, they're just trying to help their own country, even if that's not great for some guy in Honduras who'd be ever so much better off if he were here in the US.
Well said.
So much for Vryedni's claim (upthread) that "Ilya Somin is no more Marxist than you are"...
Well, I don't think he IS a Marxist. Demonstrably he's not. He likes the free market and private property too much for that.
If anything, his ideological rejection of one of the key attributes of the classic state puts him closer to being an anarcho-capitalist.
That's what I dislike most about Somin: He really does not engage meaningfully with people who disagree with him. He has trouble accepting that you can disagree with him after thoughtful and informed consideration.
Yes.
I'm going to disagree, he's smart enough to understand the consequences of his preferred policies but he doesn't care about reality if it conflicts with his ideology and that makes him evil but not necessarily a bad person.
I'd be fine with the espousal of his principles as a means to spread liberty in a local format to other countries but instead he's all for piling others here whether they buy into American values or not.
that makes him evil but not necessarily a bad person.
You see wild shit in Somin threads, I tell you.
This from the guy who uses the term "rational ignorance".
"I'm going to disagree, he's smart enough to understand the consequences of his preferred policies but he doesn't care about reality if it conflicts with his ideology and that makes him evil but not necessarily a bad person."
I don't think it's a matter of how smart he is: He's just so emotionally invested in open borders that he can't think clearly about it.
1) Did you consider that he's smarter than you and therefore understands the consequences of his preferred policies in a way that you do not?
2) Like most MAGA, you don't seem to grasp the concept of principles. One doesn't support a principle because one believes it will always have good consequences; that's just utilitarianism. One supports a principle even if one thinks it sometimes won't.
3) You don't seem to buy into American values.
"One doesn't support a principle because one believes it will always have good consequences; that's just utilitarianism. One supports a principle even if one thinks it sometimes won't."
While that's true, where does Somin ever admit that open borders might have bad consequences?
He doesn't think they will! I'm just saying that "He supports this even though it will have bad consequences, so he's evil" isn't a sufficient argument.
And I'm saying that he's so devoted to open borders that he can't admit, even to himself, that his policies would have bad consequences for a significant number of people.
He's not a guy rationally supporting a policy in defense of a principle. He's a guy so devoted to a policy that he can't admit it ever has downsides.
He's an advocate as much as an analyst.
But he absolutely acknowledges costs, he just argues they aren't as high as folks like you think they are. And that the net gain is vastly positive.
I don't always agree with him, but I find myself defending him because he seems to invite the worst people to make the worst arguments.
'I demand he talk about the things I want him to talk about or else he's too emotional to argue properly!' is one of those worst arguments.
Where is his analysis on costs? Irony is we can measure costs but the open borders cult not only hand waives it away, they counter with models that assume benefits is greater than costs with no data, just assumptions.
Like most leftists they rely on data built from assumptions instead of actual data. We see this with keyenesians as well, where their models still assume a factor greater than 1 despite mo study showing a factor greater than around .7.
The left relies on their ignorance to reality while calling others ignorant for not believing their models that don't reflect reality.
"Rational Ignorance" is a contradictory term. If their thinking is rational, it's not ignorant.
Only those on the left can combine polar opposites and think it makes a valid statement.
No, it's not a contradiction. It means that it is rational for you to not bother investing the effort to become informed in a particular area.
For instance, I don't enjoy professional sports, so it wouldn't be rational for me to invest the time to learn the details of the rules. I'm rationally ignorant of them. If I got dragged off to a baseball game regardless, as has happened a couple of times, I'd put up a show of following it, but really wouldn't understand what was going on a lot of the time.
In the context of democracy, since any individual vote has a negligible chance of effecting the outcome of an election above the local level, the amount of effort people would rationally invest in becoming informed about the candidates is tiny, so most people, rationally, would be ignorant about the candidates. The very fact that they're bothering to vote is the thing that's irrational.
What people like Somin and Sarcastro call rational ignorance simply means you don't believe their propaganda or are using actual data.
Sure, in the immediate case. I was just defending the general concept of "rational ignorance", not Somin's application of it.
New Years Resolution, refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.
That's your Resolution, I already do that, I'm resolving to work on legs as much as arms/chest
Frank
Never skip leg day Frank.
>But it remains a grave danger, nonetheless.
A grave danger to whom? Oh, I get it now.
To the Jews. It's the Jews who say they're only safe in a multi-cultural society which is why they're instigating the collapse of so many Western Democracies.
And since America First policies don't contribute to White Genocide, it's a GRAVE DANGER... to the Jews.
This is why you people keep getting banished from communities... well one of the reasons.
Somin is a Russian Jew. Lots of Jews do not have the same warped Marxist thinking that he does.
By "Warped Marxist thinking" I assume you mean, "neither Christian nationalism, nor right-wing anti-capitalism".
Nobody agrees with Somin.
You need to update your playbook shrike.
Granted half the democrats on this site readily believe every DNC narrative, it just makes you look dumb.
Roger, you've been around here long enough to know Ilya is a devoted anti-communist. Accusing him of Marxist thinking is willful ignorance at best.
I know that Somin calls himself a Libertarian, but his views are consistently anti-freedom, anti-democracy, and anti-American.
I dispute that he's anti-freedom, anti-democracy or anti-American, but if he were, it still wouldn't make him Marxist. Even if all Marxists are anti-freedom, anti-democracy and/or anti-American -- an arguable proposition -- only a fraction of anti-freedom, anti-democracy, anti-Americans are Marxist. It's a logical fallacy to use Marxist as an all purpose pejorative. That doing so has lead you to call a vocal anti-communist a Marxist should have been your first clue. But I doubt you care.
Hmmm... Could it be that, in a similar way, lots of Russian Jews do not have the same warped Marxist thinking that he does?
Say, did you know that Ayn Rand was a Russian Jew?
Yes, Ayn Rand was a Russian Jew, and that explains a few things about her. No, she was not a Marxist.
RP,
Rather than your anti-semitic outburst, you ought to be thanking them for doing what is needed to protect the West.
Can you articulate what you're referring to that I should be thankful for? What are Jews doing to protect the West?
I'm open to being wrong about the Jews.
You're not wrong. I am a closet Jew. I was born to two Jewish parents, but cut off contact with nearly everyone in my family decades ago. I married a Christian girl, and changed my name when I graduated college.
Very few people know of my Jewish heritage, and it's that way by design. I'm embarrassed to be associated with these people. They actively undermine the West because they hate Christians. Even to the point where they refuse to put up holiday lights. They don't like the idea of doing anything Christians do.
They don't recognize that America is the most pro-Jewish country that ever was. They still hate its majority religion, all because of centuries old persecution and the fact that some country clubs didn't let their ancestors join in the early to mid 1900s.
If push comes to shove, they'll never side with the West over barbarians. That's why they have an abysmal rate of military service.
If push comes to shove, they'll never side with the West over barbarians. That's why they have an abysmal rate of military service.
I don't assign a high probability to your tale of apostasy.
In case you missed it, Israel is assuredly on the side of the West, and a significant proportion of the Israeli population serves - which, given the small global population of Jews, means that probably more Jews are engaged in military service proportionally than any other religious groups I can think of.
Your claim is also reminiscent of the Judenzählung of WWI. There was an anti-Semitic canard in Germany that Jews weren't fighting in proportion to their numbers. The army investigated, and found that Jews were over=represented. The report was then suppressed.
Believe what you want, we're both just anonymous guys on the Internet. Regarding the IDF, I thought it was very clear from context that I was referring to American Jews, who would rather destroy the majority culture and end up living under third world Muslim barbarians than having to live in a society with Christian values. It's really weird.
I was referring to American Jews, who would rather destroy the majority culture...
This is a philosophy of the left, NOT necessarily of "Jews". This is the part that drives me nuts about the anti-Jews in the world. The orthodox don't feel this way, and neither do the Hasidim. It's only the "reform" Jews, who've made left wing politics the center of their own philosophy.
You place the blame in the wrong place.
I don't disagree. But the face of American Judaism, for better or for worse, are the left-wing reform Jews. The haredi largely stick to themselves, and don't get involved in advocacy.
I'm open to being wrong about the Jews.
I strongly doubt it.
Don, I don't see *the majority of* American Jews doing *ANYTHING* to protect the West -- or even Israel, which is a de-facto Western country.
While I don't understand what part of "kill the Jews" most American Jews fail to understand, but reality is that they don't...
When right-wing Americans are comfortable enough with white supremacist groups and neo-Nazis that they actually don't want the FBI to investigate too closely, and left-wing Americans are saying "kill the Jews", it seems reasonable to judge which group is a greater threat by looking at the statistics of actual lethal attacks. Also, I think very many American Jews regard the right-wing support of Israel with a degree of suspicion, given that the Evangelical support is that uniquely American anomaly, pro-Zionist anti-Semitism.
(The position is further complicated a little by Islamic fundamentalists being conservative but not accepted as such by white conservatives and embraced uncritically by some on the left.)
Yes, there are far more actual lethal attacks from left-wingers
And most Islamic fundamentalists are not conservative by Western conservative standards. Sure, they might oppose abortion and same-sex marriage, but they're not conservative in terms of private property, low regulation, and free speech.
Yes, there are far more actual lethal attacks from left-wingers
Nope. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_antisemitic_incidents_in_the_United_States
they're not conservative in terms of private property, low regulation, and free speech.
Conservative values are not inherently about private property, low regulation and free speech, but about adherence to tradition. As there is a long tradition in the US of respect for private property, and until New Deal, I think, low regulation, then those happen to be what American conservatives think of as conservative values. I am not sure that free speech was ever a traditional value. Hence the Islamic fundamentalists are indeed conservatives.
NYC and Bostom have the most antisemitic attacks in the US. Minorities are much more likely to attack Jewish people.
Everything you say is a laughably false narrative shrike.
"Hence the Islamic fundamentalists are indeed conservatives."
Sheesh. By that standard, the left is chock full of conservatives.
At it's most basic, conservative values are that every INDIVIDUAL has an individual God-given right to the INDIVIDUAL'S life, liberty, and property. See Edmund Burke...
Islamic fundamentalists do not respect the INDIVIDUAL part...
And NeoNazis are NOT Conservatives -- they actually are Fascist Socialists.
No Ed, that's Libertarians. Conservatives promote specific, typically traditional, culture and values -- and attempt to impose them on society at large.
Jeez, you don't even know what ism you are.
Bullbleep.
I am not a loony libertarian.
From their respective Wikipedia intros.
Conservatism is a cultural, social, and political philosophy and ideology that seeks to promote and preserve traditional institutions, customs, and values. Conservatives tend to favor institutions and practices that enhance social order and historical continuity.
Libertarianism is a political philosophy that holds freedom and liberty as primary values. Many libertarians conceive of freedom in accord with the Non-Aggression Principle, according to which each individual has the right to live as they choose, so long as it does not involve violating the rights of others by initiating force or fraud against them.
Know thyself.
Yup. Only a conservative would use the term "ordered liberty" and think it meant exactly the same as "liberty".
Do they vote for conservative politicians in the USA? If not, then they are not considered conservatives, in the USA.
white supremacist groups and neo-Nazis
You've drunk the kool-aid. There are VERY FEW actual white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups in existence in the United States. It's a bogeyman, designed to take your eye off where the real problem exists: the left. You don't see Nazis or white supremacists taking over college campuses, although the kids doing the marching there are aligned with those Nazis. You don't see them burning down inner cities because a cop shot someone.
This is ALL on the left.
You're willfully blind.
There are VERY FEW actual white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups in existence in the United States.
53 Neo-Nazi groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Neo-Nazi_organizations_in_the_United_States
And plenty of white nationalist groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_white_nationalist_organizations#United_States
(Some overlap)
And certainly tthere are no shortage of Americans who tolerate their views.
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-neo-nazi-support-american-public-charlottesville-white-supremacists-kkk-far-right-poll-a7907091.html
<i<Nine per cent of Americans say holding neo-Nazi or white supremacist views is acceptable, according to a new poll.
For comparison, about 3 times as many Americans tolerate these views as there are American Jews.
Always makes me laugh when shrike links neo nazi and Jewish hate to the right as his party defends 10/7 and Free Palestine.
And bye (mute)
What's with the need to announce that you've muted someone (and not just you, but many others)?
Virtue signalling. Someone could make money from 1-800-I-MUTED-U playing recordings of people cheering on for getting a participation medal.
No, I don't need to waste my time reading that kind of crap
Fine, but why the need to announce it?
Because opportunities like this do not come along every day! (mute)
I agree. There is phenomenal ignorance and bias out there. Some actually believe J6 was an "attack" or "insurrection" and that 2020 was the most secure election in history.
What's scary are the people who think that Jan 6th was the worst thing to ever happen in the Capitol.
Back in the 1950s, some Puerto Rician nationalists went into the Ladies Gallery with guns and shot five Congressmen, nearly killing one of them. Bullets into Congressmen.
The White House wasn't there then, so Truman was living somewhere else and they killed a cop trying to kill him.
Then there were two times when a bomb went "BANG" inside the building -- one in a cloakroom and another somewhere else, didn't hurt anyone but did damage to the building and would have harmed anyone who had been there at the time.
Bullets and bombs -- versus some idiot with a spear drinking Nancy Pelosi's beer....
I've never heard anyone claim that Jan 6 was "the worst thing to ever happen in the Capitol." You just made that up. Your enemies are in your head Ed, they aren't real life enemies.
Let's start with Harris at the debate:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/harris-says-january-6-was-worst-attack-on-democracy-since-civil-war/ar-AA1qm9yI#image=1
Use duckduckgo.com -- it doesn't censor.
Worst attack on democracy, not worst thing to happen at the Capitol. Do you even understand how those are different things entirely?
Because wounding (and nearly killing one) members of Congress or attempting to level the Capitol isn't an attack on democracy.
It's umm, expressing support for a baseball team.
Let's Go, Red Sox!
lol wow what a parse.
Have you no shame?
Jesus, just stop. That's a distinction without a difference. And if you believe J6 was an attack on Democracy, how can you hold a straight face and say a bunch of Puerto Rican terrorists shooting congressmen is NOT an attack on Democracy?
Logic much?
You guys are weird. No, a bunch of Puerto Rican terrorists shooting congressmen isn't an "attack on democracy." It was an attack against United States, not to undermine its democracy but to "advocate" (via terrorism) for a specific policy (Puerto Rican independence).
Every attack against the United States isn't an "attack on democracy" dumdums. 9/11 was a much worse attack on the United States. Do you think 9/11 just slipped Kamala's mind?
An "attack on democracy" means an attack with the specific goal of ending democracy in the United States.
You guys are weird.
So who had a goal of ending democracy, if not the Puerto Ricans? The J6 protesters want to uphold the wishes of the voters.
Trump and the other instigators of Jan 6 knew that Trump had lost the election.
Puerto Ricans have been US citizens since 1917.
Fair enough. We can count it as a ~2% attack on democracy in the same way that the Civil War was like a ~50% attack.
Sorry to hear that you are deaf. There is help for that.
"I've been writing about the dangers of political ignorance"
liya is Exhibit A for political ignorance.
Yes, Somin has been making the same stupid comments since 1998, and he does not appear to have learned anything. The comments here prove him wrong every time.
Hear, hear. Prof.
As expected, none of the commenters are refuting you, just irrelevancies and ad hominem.
Did he write anything refutable?
Somin's entire article here is nothing but an ad hominem attack on the voters who didn't vote the way he preferred. It literally is nothing more than " they only voted the way they did because of ignorance."
Somin's argument is not an ad hominem attack. It is instead based on the premise that Trump lied about having the election stolen from him. The premise is correct.
No, his premise is the simplistic assumption that people voted for Trump just because they believe his assertions about 2020. This is nonsense. If Trump had never claimed to have the election stolen, he would have won more votes in 2024.
Somin has no idea how people actually decide to vote in a democracy. His rhetoric is that of a high school student who has just learned about democracy and has put his thoughts on paper without any real world experience.
I agree had Trump accepted defeat in 2020 (no Jan 6), he wins in 2024. Somin's point is given Jan 6 happened, people had to justify/rationalize Jan 6 in order to vote for him in 2024.
Not really. Polls show that the vast majority of the voters did not care about that Jan. 6, 2021 protest. Few bothered to learn enough to have an opinion.
Huh. So now you agree with Ilya.
I told you man, no principles whatsoever. Pure jackassery.
No, he said most of us don't really care about J6. And he's right. Quit projecting.
It takes rationalization of Jan 6 not to care about it.
"Most" does not equal "vast majority"
"Few bothered to learn enough to have an opinion." That means the rest were ignorant. Which is what Ilya is saying.
JoshR — As always, historical counterfactuals are a waste. They generally assume an impossibility: to change hypothetically just one historical occurrence, and then guess some purportedly logical outcome would result. But the instant you hypothetically change one historical factor, purportedly logical occurrences include changes in myriad other factors, which chain-multiply exponentially to arrive at chaos.
For instance, Trump accepts defeat in 2020. So Biden keeps his promise to be a one-term President. A genuine Democratic Party primary ensues. Then what?
The only thing you know for sure about historical counterfactuals is that whatever gets hypothesized did not occur, and thus the counterfactuals are always irrelevant to everything which could have happened.
I make this point repeatedly because it is an important one with regard to understanding the role of history in human affairs. Historical counterfactuals seem more relevant than they can be, because they involve a style of speculation which actually does make sense in everyday life.
Everyday life does not typically focus on an unchangeable past, but instead focuses on the still-malleable present, or the presumably more-malleable future. In those instances, speculative outcomes quite often remain possibilities.
So in everyday life folks get used to speculating what would happen if we change this, or change that, and thus create plans, schemes, agreements, deceptions, etc.—in short, they focus on everything which philosopher William James anticipated when he remarked, ". . . but what affairs in the concrete are settled by is, and always will be, just prejudices, partialities, cupidities and excitements."
Which may be true as far as it goes (James unaccountably left out envy, justice, revenge, and opportunism), but the concrete of the past is sterner stuff then the still-curing glop James had in mind. So folks unmindful of that indispensable distinction heedlessly merge over to focus likewise on a past which cannot change by even a jot—despite presumably having been driven by its own distinctive set of, "prejudices, partialities, cupidities and excitements." In historical study, those simply take proper places among all the other unchangeable bits which historians' labor to infer.
Thus, before anyone decides to mine the past for inferences useful to guide decision-making in the present, they must come to grips with the notion that there is only one question about which historical investigation can provide legitimate answers: What happened at that time, in that place, with regard to the people then and there?
That's it. It's all the information historical investigation can potentially deliver. To get that right is so difficult it is lucky nothing else is even possible.
Way too counterfactual to contemplate. No election denialism or attempt to steal the election (including J6) means no second impeachment, no continuing MAGA whining over their insurrectionists being treated as criminals, obviously no criminal prosecution of Trump in DC (though he still stole documents!), no devolution of the GOP into a one person grievance organization. I don't even know that Trump runs in 2024 under those conditions.
Oh, come on. I think there still would have been prosecutions, Trump is the Democrats' Orange Whale, they couldn't NOT go after him. It's not like they were leaving him alone before January 6th, after all.
We all know you think this. But no one is going to come on and join you in the Bellmore Cinematic Universe.
You're really saying they didn't go after Trump hard enough.
Really.
Wow.
It is like that.
No one "justified/rationalized" it.
They just rejected the Left's narratives about it.
No one buys your stupid shit anymore.
Bullshit. It was absolutely an ad hominem attack.
Do go on ...
Not quite. He divides Trump voters into two groups:
1. Those who believe Trump about the 2020 election.
2. Those who don't, but just prefer Trump on a policy level.
He regards both groups as ignorant.
The 2020 election WAS stolen, as was the 1960 election.
I voted for Trump because I see the mess the left made the last 4 years, and will CONTINUE to make these last 13 days. That was the ENTIRE REASON I voted for him.
Also - I believe the 2020 election was not valid.
These are two independent thoughts, and because you're incapable of that doesn't mean the rest of us have the same hangup.
I voted for Trump because while there are a lot of things I don't like about him, I think his administration will be survivable in a way further Democratic party rule wouldn't be, while he might do some things that really need doing. Or might not, but, survivably.
The Democrats are getting way too comfortable with ideas like Court packing and systematic censorship of political speech. They've been hostile to the 2nd amendment my whole life. I really think that if they got their way, this country would be unrecognizably changed, and perhaps irreversibly so.
While Trump wants a lot of changes, I don't see him advocating anything that we couldn't recover from if the public disliked it.
Maybe losing a second time to Trump will be the Democrats' wakeup call, (As it seems to have been for at least some media outlets.)but I don't think so based on past behavior.
Actually, we're refuting it all through the thread. Your problem is that you don't see any other valid argument on the opposite side of yours. The thing we've all complained about Professor Somin about here.
There may have been ignorant people voting for Trump, but Trump didn't get elected because the electorate is ignorant. They elected him because they could plainly see the utter mess the Dems made over the past 4 years, and were worried (and rightly so) about how much worse it would get with Harris.
If you have an argument that refutes the above, I'm all ears.
I think it was Hacker and Pierson who said there’s a deep dark secret in Political Science that everyone knows and no one wants to talk about. The electorate are “woefully ignorant”. That’s not changing. The only ways I see out of this postmodern politics where everyone believes whatever they feel like is for politicians to develop some sense of morality and shame over lying. And that only happens if they’re punished for lying. Which gets us back to the electorate.
I foresee Republican rule, continuing concentration of wealth and power beyond their already obscene levels, and growing incompetent autocracy, until something blows up.
To quote Andy Rooney: "Politicians lie. They lie because when they tell the truth, we don't vote for them."
Or perhaps government could just meddle a little bit less and give people fewer reasons to hate them.
Or you could just reduce the scope of government to the point where we could keep track of it, and the power hungry weren't desperate to take control of it at any cost.
gVOR08 — Stuff gonna 'splode!
I wish I could disagree with that. I console myself that it could be the most likely outcome among many less-likely ones, and that together the others remain more probable. Betting the field is often wiser than picking a favorite—that is what I keep telling myself.
"I foresee Republican rule, continuing concentration of wealth and power beyond their already obscene levels, and growing incompetent autocracy, until something blows up."
Yep. The rich never learn the lessons of history, so it must be repeated again from time to time.
The rich are the Democrats. You know this, don't you?
Well, you used your one un-muting of 2025 to utter yet another partisan lie.
It's amazing how consistent you are with being dishonest.
Is Elon Musk a Democrat? Nope.
Adios fuckface.
I foresee Republican rule, continuing concentration of wealth and power beyond their already obscene levels, and growing incompetent autocracy, until something blows up.
Heh. Maybe you ought not talk about ignorance after that babbling BS...
We shouldn’t even have elections. We should just ask Mr. Somin who should be president. I don’t want to be seen as ignorant. So that might be the easiest way.
One candidate was a distinguished former President with a proven record. The other was a dopey DEI puppet who ran on open borders, turning kids into trannies, the joy of being picked, and not being the other guy.
Congratulations. I've never seen even the most slavish, Trump bootlicker call him distinguished.
Not very witty. Try again.
What did you think was an attempt to be witty? I meant every word.
Swing voters blame incumbent Democrats for the inflation and price increases even though actually both parties supported the policies that caused them
During the election, we were assured by many, including many here, that the economy was really doing well, and voters were ignorant in not realizing how good they had it.
Suddenly, the narrative has changed to "yeah, the economy was bad, but it's the fault of the Republicans too."
Seems like the voters were wise not to buy either story.
You act like Prof Somin speaks for the Democratic Party.
Pretty silly of you.
Every time I recall him revealing who he supported for President, it was a Democrat. I don't think Somin speaks for the Democratic party, they're too canny to openly advocate open borders, but he speaks to support it often enough.
And, that's understandable, given that the most important thing in the whole world to him is open borders. Neither party dares openly support that cause, but the Democrats do what they can to advance it while in power.
Great for the off topic hater post, but that wasn’t really a defense of BLs silly post.
Let's start with half of Somin's argument.
Was the 2020 election legitimate or was it stolen?
If you think the latter, you're ignorant. This is not a matter of opinion. The facts are against you. If you think that there are facts which support you, you're ignorant about the truth valuer of those "facts".
"Value" not "valuer", but the typo still makes sense...
This is not a binary. I think there were a lot of things about the 2020 election that were extremely dodgy, to the point that it's possible (But hardly certain!) that an election run by the books would have produced a Trump win. Even setting aside stuff like platform censorship, all sorts of ad hoc procedural changes which, no matter how much you recite "Covid!" should have gone through the legislatures, or not happened at all, on a large enough scale to have changed the election outcome.
But I don't think the Democrats stole the election, in the sense of enough votes being fraudulent to matter. And I don't think Trump had any hope of prevailing legally, because our system just isn't set up to allow that sort of thing to be fixed after the fact. You can't cancel the election and re-run it under the legal rules, Presidential elections don't have do-overs.
And the courts were never going to take seriously cases where they had no available remedy. But I sure blame them for refusing to take complaints about it seriously BEFORE the election. They were way too open to "But, Covid!" style arguments.
So, it was a dumpster fire of an election, but no fire extinguishers were available. Trump and the Republicans just got out played, that's all, even if they got outplayed outside the rules.
That said... There was certainly enough going on for a Trump supporter to reasonably think his loss in 2020 wasn't "legitimate", for non-legal values of that term. Even if the election wasn't legally "stolen".
"I think there were a lot of things about the 2020 election that were extremely dodgy, to the point that it's possible (But hardly certain!) that an election run by the books would have produced a Trump win."
Not true.
Mostly because the election was run "by the books."
"Mostly" is doing a lot of work.
Sure, if you mean cooked books.
In a fair number of states they bypassed the state legislature, and made changes to election procedures that often ran contrary to existing law, sometimes even to state constitutions.
This was justified on the basis of Covid, but that's total bullshit. The state legislatures in all those states were holding sessions, and were perfectly capable of changing the election laws in response to Covid if THEY thought it necessary. There was no emergency at that point to justify ad hoc actions.
These were all litigated according to the laws of each state.
Your combination of massive unearned confidence and an outcome-oriented layperson's understanding of the law has lead you to this place where it's you against literally every actual lawyer on here.
That's not rational ignorance, that's working hard to maintain ignorance.
"But I sure blame them for refusing to take complaints about it seriously BEFORE the election. They were way too open to "But, Covid!" style arguments."
Maybe David meant to say "elections were run by the crooks".
These were all litigated according to the laws of each state.
Hiding behind the law. Because as we know, ALL laws are strictly enforced.
You're eliding between law as regards to crime and courts as regards to fact-finding.
You're also ignoring that in court Trump's own attorneys denied they were claiming fraud, explicitly saying so, and that in Texas v Pennsylvania, which was FAPP the last chance Trump had, not only did he not join Texas (and neither did any other
Confederatepro-Trump states - significant in itself) but the amicus brief he filed also did not allege fraud nor provided any evidence for it, instead arguing that the Pennsylvania process made fraud more difficult to detect.Basically, you lot are just giulianis - "we know fraud took place, now we need to find the evidence".
"but the amicus brief he filed also did not allege fraud nor provided any evidence for it, instead arguing that the Pennsylvania process made fraud more difficult to detect."
What's confusing about this? If your accountant burns the books, you may think he embezzled, but you don't tell the court that you have proof of embezzlement, because he burned the books.
It's basically a sort of spoliation argument: If somebody takes steps to make fraud impossible to detect, you're entitled to presume they committed fraud, without having to produce the evidence you're telling the court they made sure wouldn't exist.
To make a spoliation argument, you need to establish spoliation. Not just a policy you don't like.
I said it's sort of a spoliation argument. The state adopted a policy that made fraud very difficult to detect, which he argues creates a presumption of fraud.
Starting page 8 in the brief.
"In the 2020 election, under the guise of responding to the COVID-19 pandemic, election officials in several key states, sometimes on their own and sometimes in connection with court actions brought by partisan advocates, made a systematic effort to weaken measures to ensure fair and impartial elections by creating new rules for the conduct of the elections—rules that were never approved by the legislatures of the defendant states as required by Article II of the United States Constitution. These new rules were aimed at weakening, ignoring, or overriding provisions of state law that are aimed at ensuring the integrity of the voting process."
But the main argument is the independent state legislature argument, that the executive and judicial branches of those states violated the federal Constitution by conducting the federal election in a manner contrary to the laws actually enacted by the legislature.
"In a fair number of states they bypassed the state legislature, and made changes to election procedures that often ran contrary to existing law, sometimes even to state constitutions."
Anyone else notice the distinct lack of evidence for this bullshit?
Tick-tock, Brett.
Because you don't agree with it doesn't mean there is lack of evidence.
And the courts - GOP and Democratic judges both - said, fuck off.
Yes true. Consider how PA changed the rules. That state was not alone. NJ changed rules too.
Dan, the rules were changed in response to a pandemic. That absolutely had an impact. Who is to say that POTUS Biden's margin of victory would not have been even higher without those changes (seems improbable, though). The point is, those unilateral changes are viewed with great skepticism, and suspicion.
Particularly obnoxious in the PA case was that the legislature, after careful consideration, had enacted a package of reforms, and in order to preserve the compromises in it unaltered, included an anti-severability clause, stating that if any provision whatsoever of the package were not upheld by the courts, the entire law was void, and the previous election law would resume effect.
So, naturally, the PA supreme court decided to waive part of the new law, and blew off that clause, essentially arguing that they weren't striking down any part of the law, they were just 'using their equitable power' to direct that part of it not be followed, so the clause wasn't really being triggered.
Here's the legislature's own amicus brief explaining the situation.
There is NO WAY Biden got 81 million valid votes in 2020. NO WAY. And only the willfully ignorant could possibly believe he did.
Actually, it's worse than ignorant. It's batshit insane.
Where did ~4MM 2020 Biden voters disappear to in 2024?
He didn't get 81 million votes. 81 million people voted against Trump. The Democrats had that successfully demonized him.
They just couldn't keep the white hot fury stoked for a full 4 years.
Except we know he did.
Only if you count votes that were cast and counted in ways that had never been done before.
Yes Roger, exactly. If you count all the valid votes, Biden got 81 million.
There were no votes cast and counted in ways that had never been done before. It's true that the use of absentee voting significantly increased in 2020, but that was certainly not a "way that had never been done before."
And yes, it's true that the candidates each only got a certain number of votes if you count all the votes that were cast.
BULLSHYTE == the election either was stolen or run in such a shoddy manner that it is a distinction without a difference.
Keep whining, Somin. It's what you do best.
Josh Blackman is not ignorant. However, as you are well aware, he has been a consistent enabler of Donald Trump, defending him over and over again, a law professor consciously aligning himself with the greatest criminal in American history. By and large, Trump supporters are not particularly "ignorant". Instead, they are afraid and want protection. They want an unscrupulous champion who will defend them from their enemies, "by any means necessary". Professor Blackman, of course, is afraid that the Democrats will sell out Israel and believes that only an amoral sociopath can solve his problems for him. Most of Trump's supporters are afraid fo foreigners, both as immigrants and as economic competitors. The Silicon Valley crowd hate the left-wing trust busters and diversity hounds. Social conservatives hate the pro-abortion groups and the gays and transsexuals. You should read, if you haven't, Karl Marx's "Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon". As Karl says, the masses want a "master", who will protect them from all harm. This is a product of fear, not ignorance.
greatest criminal in American history.
OK, so anything you said after that is completely disqualified. Because the above is so insane it's surprising that anyone could have typed it.
Go away.
Trump is for real.
A real criminal? A real lying piece of shit? A real grifter? A real moron? A real sex abuser? A real adulterer? A real racist? A real white nationalist?
Glad to see we're in agreement.
Being both arrogant and stupid is a bad combination. You may want to try another tack...
For the 1000th time or so, Somin calls everyone who disagrees with him "politically ignorant". I wonder of this rhetorical technique wins many over, as I have never seen any of the other co-bloggers here use it. But he never tells us how to rise above our political ignorance (beyond adopting his position on every issue, that is).
Tell us, O Wise One, where do you get your information, so we may emulate you? Judging from the quality and tenor of your posts, I'd maybe guess MSNBC. Perhaps The View or Rob Reiner's Twitter feed?
It's from the voices in his head.
F.D. Wolf — If you count yourself a MAGA type, you could not do better than to switch some of your media attention to MSNBC. They remain determined partisans, of course, but they they are partisan with regard to the topics they choose to cover. They are less partisan with regard to how they present those topics, and the evidence which supports them.
For now, at least, MSNBC has been doing the best job of any media outlet I know of to present facts as facts. When they do it, however selectively, they usually support them with a provenance an ordinary skeptic could investigate.
I am sure MSNBC leaves out many, "facts," you would prefer to see covered. Some might not even deserve the scare quotes. Problem is, the media which deliver that other stuff tend to leave off the potentially corroborative provenance.
I get that it can be hard to see when that happens—to a lot of folks, to recite, "Hunter Biden's laptop," looks like provenance. Ask yourself, if you had the job to double check, "Hunter Biden's Laptop," could you do it? How would you go about the task to verify alleged laptop contents first-hand, while assuring no tampering by others during its murky chain of custody?
By contrast, if you had to check out, "On (specific day, at specific place) Liz Cheney said, (whatever), could you do that? That's easy.
Also, if you are a MAGA type, you may suppose no evidence exits to support claims of a violent attack at the Capitol on J6. Watch MSNBC for a few days and you will either have to give that up, or figure out whether you have been shown giant amounts of fake video—which somehow mysteriously accords with live video broadcast on J6.
Fox News is not a friend to folks looking for accurate information, presented in verifiable context. MSNBC does do better.
From Simon Wren-Lewis discussing Krugman discussing a Michigan Consumer Survey:
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2025/01/vibes-for-economy-and-other-things.html
Prof. Somin couldn't be more wrong. It's the result of isolating the election from everything that happened -- or was done to Trump -- from the time he announced his candidacy in 2016. It was the accumulation of those things (Russia, Flynn, Comey, Hunter's laptop, etc.) that convinced many supporters (or voters) that the election was stolen. It was stolen, just not the way they thought: it was stolen by the press (spiking the laptop story); Big Tech (the same); the appellate courts, which stuck their noses into election laws that were the province of legislatures, etc. Wellington said the battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton; the Democrats won the 2020 election in the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. The election was stolen before the election was actually held on election day. In 2024, voters could see that the same thing was being done and were able to see through it. That's why the prosecutions and civil cases against Trump helped, and didn't hurt, him. If Trump went a little "meshuga" on after the 2020 election, who could blame him? He was like the dog whose owner has brutalized him until the dog finally snaps and bites his tormentor. Then the owner says, "See? Didin't I tell you how bad that dog is?" Trump's victory was a return to reality, fairness, and common sense.
If Trump went a little "meshuga" on after the 2020 election, who could blame him? He was like the dog whose owner has brutalized him until the dog finally snaps and bites his tormentor
This is how you defend a man as worthy of the Presidency?
I think it has more to do with concern over what various government officials, NGOs, and media outlets were willing to do in order to oppose Trump.
I dunno, this seems more about how the brutalized dog President isn't responsible for his actions.
I hope and pray that Somin gets to keep writing this same piece over and over for the rest of his life.
If you think 1) the economy is in bad shape, 2) migrants are a threat to public safety and a drain on our economy, 3) the 2020 election was stolen, 4) it's Biden's and the Democrats' fault that the border situation is not fixed, 5) inflation is out of control and it's Biden's and the Democrats' fault, 6) climate change is a hoax -- if you believe any of these things -- you are ignorant. Because none of them is true. Yet those are the beliefs, in whole or in part, of Trump voters.
Capt Dan, doubling down on stupid.
More like quadrupling...
Seriously Dan, on #4 just take a deep breath, and look at a graph of Southern border encounters after Biden took office. See that blue line? All due to policy changes Biden pushed through.
May '19 was the worst month the entire time Trump was in office. Biden had surpassed it by March '21, just a couple months after taking office, and didn't drop back below it until June of last year.
Turned out he was perfectly capable of turning the spigot off, too, if an election was approaching. Any time he wanted, he could have pushed those numbers back down to Trump territory. He just didn't want to do that.
So, yeah, it absolutely is Biden and the Democrats' fault.
All due to policy changes Biden pushed through.
Unsupported, and based on the timeline almost certainly untrue.
As has been pointed out to you by multiple people.
Turned out he was perfectly capable of turning the spigot off, too, if an election was approaching
Asserting a conspiracy based on nothing more than a number went down. No sniff of support for causality.
Unsupported, and based on the timeline almost certainly untrue.
Let me see: Biden orders border patrol to not pursue people coming into the country. Numbers of people entering the country increase dramatically.
Explain how the above is "unsupported"?
So, you're saying that Biden made no changes to border policy when he took office? Such as ending "Remain in Mexico"?
Do you even realize how silly you seem, claiming that a tripling of illegal immigration in the space of a few months had nothing to do with the policy changes that happened right before?
Not what I said Brett.
Causality. You assume causality and you do no work.
As XKCD famously said, "Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'"
At which point you make a great show of looking in the other direction...
IOW you have nothing, and you want to make that my fault.
I literally provided proof that illegal immigration TRIPLED in the space of a few months after Biden took office, coincident with a lot of policy changes that would be expected to have that effect.
And you call that nothing.
You literally can't stop ignoring the need to prove causation.
Same as you conspiracy theory about schools banding together hound out conservatives on faculty.
'Number go up so fast!! Must be a liberal plot!'
For the life of me I don't understand why you continue to try to engage with this insufferable douche.
It's like picking at a scab, really: I just want to see how far he's willing to publicly embarrass himself by over the top denial of the obvious.
...and you haven't discovered that when Il Douche is involved there is no limit to how far he'll go; obviously immune from any sort of embarrassment.
1. The economy is not that great. That's unassailable.
2. Migrants most CERTAINLY are a threat to public safety and a drain on our economy. Unless you have some proof that migrants never cause crimes and always pay for their own schooling and medical issues.
3. The 2020 election was highly irregular.
4. Biden has nothing to do with anything. He's eating tapioca pudding while Obama, Jarrett and Susan Rice are running things.
5. Inflation hasn't come down, so yes, by default, it's out of control.
My God, liberals are so utterly ignorant.
Be careful or Capt. Dan will mute you for wrong speak.
1) The economy is very strong. That's unassailable.
2) Everyone of every status is a "threat to public safety" if you merely mean by that claim that they could commit a crime, and that some of them will. But that's so trivial as to be stupid and pointless. By that logic, North Dakota should shut its border with South Dakota, since South Dakotas most CERTAINLY are a threat to public safety.
As to the second half of that claim, a "drain on our economy," people are an asset. Otherwise the economy would get worse every time someone was born. (Should tell Musk, because he's been ranting and raving about declining birthrates.)
3) The 2020 election was not in any way irregular, until Trump tried his coup of course.
4) Are you suffering from dementia?
5) Inflation has in fact dropped way down; it spiked to 8% in 2022 and is now back down below 3%.
Dan, to say that human-caused CO2 in the atmosphere is causing storms almost as severe as those a century ago is not only sophomoric but downright asinine.
Forget all the other variables, IF the CO2 was making more severe storms, then explain what made the severe storms back then?!? The Vermont flooding of the 1920s, the Western Massachusetts flooding of the 1930s, the New England Hurricanes of 1938-54, the two Blizzards of 1978....
In my lifetime, I've seen the purported "experts" telling me that evil humanity was (a) cooling the planet, with a coming Ice Age, (b) warming the planet, and (c) now neither, just changing it. That's "Kettle Pleading."
The last ten years are the hottest on record. When I was a kid the average temperature of this planet was 60 degrees Fahrenheit. Now it’s 62.
It's not measured the same way.
"Polls consistently show that a third or more of Americans - including a large majority of Republicans - believe Trump's lies about the 2020 election, despite the overwhelming evidence against them, including numerous court decisions rejecting Trumpian claims of voter fraud (including some written by conservative judges appointed by Trump himself). Ignorance and partisan bias are great enough that many millions of GOP base voters reject fairly obvious facts here. If you believe the 2020 election was "stolen" from Trump, then his reaction may well seem justified, or at least excusable."
Professor Somin lumps together lots of people in order to attack their beliefs. The 2020 election was unusual; I don't think anyone denies that. Rules were changed for the 2020 election; I don't think anyone denies that. Some of Trump's statements have been disproven, but people have legitimate reasons to be suspicious of the outcome. Hell, TIME Magazine even bragged about how various powerful people and entities influenced (:fortified") the election.
Trump's lies about the 2020 election
THIS is what I like least about Somin. He's lying through his teeth on this point alone.
Unless the good professor has some proof, via mind-reading skills, that Trump doesn't actually believe the election is stolen, there is NO WAY ON EARTH he can make the above statement honestly.
Let's correct Somin: Trump's lies or delusions about the 2020 election.
I think it comes down to one of two things:
Does one (a) believe that the Democrats are so incompetent that they actually honestly ran an election as screwed up as the 2020 election was -- or (b) they rigged it.
In a Federal voting rights trial, a Massachusetts hack testified that he didn't know which river it was that the Mystic River Bridge crossed -- and the jury believed that yes, he really *was* that stupid.
So what a defense: We didn't rig it, we're really that stupid....
1. The "ignorance" flaw
Ilya uses "voter ignorance" consistently, instead of actually addressing people's concerns or differences in opinions. It's a cop out, patronizing, elitist, and exactly the wrong way to convince people.
If people have concerns about the economy, it's rational to put at least SOME of the cause for those on the party in charge (as opposed to the party not in charge). Otherwise, it's just an abdication of responsibility. Saying that "well, the other party voted for some of it too, so you're just ignorant if you disagree with me"...
Just is insulting to the other people. And doesn't win them over.
In fairness, I don't think Somin gives a whit about winning people over. He believes he's right, and that's all that matters to him.
Then that's just like a religious nut who claims he knows because he's right, and that's all that matters. There's no arguing.
2. The true danger to democracy.
Democracy dies when the party in charge controls the levers of information and uses the power of the government to prosecute its enemies (while protecting its friends.). When it acts in concert with big industry to suppress certain stories, while pushing other stories.
That is exactly what we saw under the Biden administration. Weaponization of the federal government to go after minor, non-violent offenders who were politically undesirable. Political undesirables were spied on, put on no-fly type lists and more. Key stories on the lack of mental acuity of key people were suppressed.
There is a clear danger here. And if Ilya can't see it, it's because he is just as ignorant as he claims everyone else is.
Can we assume that if the Trump admin go after his political enemies and other undesirables, you will likewise condemn him?
Would that make you feel better?
If they do so like the Biden administration did, then yes.
If they direct the FBI to commit substantial resources towards investigating common citizens who have done no violent offenses...then yes.
If they engage in inventing "novel" crimes that have never before been prosecuted simply for the aim of attacking a political opponent, then yes.
I hope Trump mimics the Biden administration just enough to convince everyone that inventing crimes and charging political enemies is a bad idea.
I think it would be more desirable if Trump cleaned house to the point where nobody could do it again for a long while. But it may be that without a taste of payback, the Democrats would remain convinced it's a game only they play, and want to reserve their capacity to do it again when they come back to power.
They really do not have a good track record of responding to "But what happens when the Republicans take control and do it back to you?" type arguments. I think it's because they regard Republicans winning elections as a sort of unnatural anomaly that one really shouldn't take into account when planning for the future.
Do we have examples of this? The R side paying back the D side by weaponizing justice? Nope.
Clean house by burning the DOJ/FBI to the ground. Prosecute any of the resent employees that violated civil rights. That we will the best tha can be done in preventing it from happening again.
I don't think there is a need to invent crimes.
Democrats shouldn't have cheated
I’ve noticed a flight from reality here lately. In the old days it was only a rare commenter who would make unhinged statements like “the 2020 election was stolen”. We’ve gotten used to juvenile, racist misogyny since the VC moved to Reason. But Trumpist “alternate facts” are taking over, and there is an increasing disconnect between the Conspirators themselves (such as Somin) and the commenters.
Prof. Somin apparently has reality ignorance. At least a billion people would love to come to the US, many of whom have no marketable skills. They would destroy the country.
He’s like a heroine addicted, who won’t accept that it’s doing harm, he just loves the buzz so much.
The people who come to the U.S. are the people who do have marketable skills, which is precisely why they come to the U.S.: to market those skills.
Riddle me this, Batman: if "at least a billion people would love to come to the U.S.," and if Biden implemented open borders, then why didn't at least a billion people come to the U.S.?
In most cases it is difficult for them to get to the USA. Some of them had to traverse the Darien Gap. Once they got to the USA, Biden refused to deport them.
The danger of democracy is what happened after J6. The use of the DOJ/FBI and a corrupt DC court to penalize political opposition.
But Reason is a libertarian joke. The one rare J6 article is about the danger of free speech. What a joke
FFS there was cheating. PA resident and poll worker. SCOPA inserted itself into the election to flip the results.
They were trying to do it again in the McCormick v Casey race. It just got so absurd that they had to pack it in. Bucks county was literally announcing they were violating the law. I think Shapiro was worried about his future which is good.
Trumps PA 24 win was too big to rig. D's can cheat in Philly and Pitt because D's control everything including the courts. Not at all in most other places. And PA is highly decentralized. So there are limits on what they can achieve.