The Volokh Conspiracy
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Texas Gov. Greg Abbott Doubles Down On Dangerous Claim that Immigration is "Invasion"
The argument is badly wrong, and would set a dangerous precedent if ever accepted by courts.

In response to a recent Supreme Court ruling allowing federal law enforcement officials to cut through razor wire Texas placed at parts of its southern border, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issued a statement doubling down on claims that undocumented migration qualifies as an "invasion" empowering Texas to ignore federal laws to the contrary:
Under President Biden's lawless border policies, more than 6 million illegal immigrants have crossed our southern border in just 3 years. That is more than the population of 33 different States in this country. This illegal refusal to protect the States has inflicted unprecedented harm on the People all across the United States.
James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and the other visionaries who wrote the U.S. Constitution foresaw that States should not be left to the mercy of a lawless president who does nothing to stop external threats like cartels smuggling millions of illegal immigrants across the border. That is why the Framers included both Article IV, § 4, which promises that the federal government "shall protect each [State] against invasion," and Article I, § 10, Clause 3, which acknowledges "the States' sovereign interest in protecting their borders." Arizona v. United States, 567 U.S. 387, 419 (2012) (Scalia, J., dissenting).
The failure of the Biden Administration to fulfill the duties imposed by Article IV, § 4 has triggered Article I, § 10, Clause 3, which reserves to this State the right of self-defense. For these reasons, I have already declared an invasion under Article I, § 10, Clause 3 to invoke Texas's constitutional authority to defend and protect itself. That authority is the supreme law of the land and supersedes any federal statutes to the contrary.
The argument that immigration is "invasion" is badly wrong and has dangerous implications that go far beyond the specific details of the razor wire case.
Texas previously made the same argument in a case where the federal government argued the state illegally placed water buoys in the Rio Grande River in violation of federal statutes. Texas' position was rejected by the trial court and the US Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, but the case is now under review by the en banc Fifth Circuit.
Abbott and his lawyers would do well to stop citing James Madison to buttress their invasion argument. As I explained in a previous piece on this issue, Madison specifically rejected the idea that immigration qualifies as invasion:
Those who cite Madison in support of equating immigration and invasion ignore the one time he directly addressed this very question: the Report of 1800, which rebutted claims that the Alien Friends Act of 1798 (which gave the president broad power to expel non-citizens) was authorized by the Invasion Clause. There, Madison explicitly rejected the idea that immigration qualifies as invasion, emphasizing that "Invasion is an operation of war."
Claims that other statements by Madison support the theory do not withstand scrutiny for reasons I summarized here.
If courts were to endorse the idea that illegal immigration qualifies as "invasion," it would have absurd and dangerous implications. Here's my brief summary of a key reason why:
[I]f illegal immigration or drug smuggling really do qualify as an "invasion," then [Article I, § 10, Clause 3 of] the Constitution [the provision cited by Abbott] authorizes states to "engage in War" as a response. In other words, Texas would be authorized to take such actions as sending its National Guard to invade Mexico, in order to attack drug cartels or forestall undocumented migration…. This absurd—and dangerous—implication of Texas's argument is an additional reason to reject it.
And Texas could then "engage in war" without any congressional authorization, and - if Abbott is right - in defiance of federal statutes to the contrary.
In the water buoy case, federal district Judge David Alan Ezra (a Republican Reagan appointee) described Texas's position as a "breathtaking" assertion of unilateral state power. If anything, he understates the point.
I would add that Texas and other states could use that claimed authority anytime they want. Since the US began to enact severe restrictions on migration across the southern border, there has never been a time when there wasn't large-scale undocumented migration across it. No president - Donald Trump included - has ever even come close to stopping it. Large-scale illegal migration is a natural consequence of the combination of severe restrictions on legal migration, job opportunities in the US, and terrible conditions in the countries most migrants are fleeing. It can potentially be reduced by making legal migration easier. But Abbott and most other Republicans are opposed to that.
Much the same point applies to cross-border drug smuggling, which is a natural consequence of the War on Drugs. Since that ill-advised metaphorical war began, there has never not been extensive cross-border trafficking in illegal drugs - including under Trump.
If illegal migration and drug smuggling count as "invasion," we are always in a state of "invasion" and affected states can "engage in war" anytime they want. Even if there is relatively more illegal migration now than a few years ago, there have long been hundreds of thousands of cases per year. If illegal migration qualifies as an "invasion" at all, it does so all the time, not just when a Democratic president is in office or when there is a spike compared to previous years.
Texas' reasoning also implies that the federal government can always suspend the writ of habeas corpus and detain both migrants and US citizens without charges:
The writ of habeas corpus protects people from being detained by the government without trial. If federal or state officials detain you, the writ gives you the right to challenge the legal basis for that detention in court. But the Suspension Clause of the Constitution (Article I, Section 9, Clause 2) states that "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it" (emphasis added).
If illegal migration and drug smuggling qualify as "invasion" for purposes of triggering state and federal authority to resist invasion under the invasion clauses, they surely also qualify as such under the Suspension Clause. And there is a significant amount of illegal migration and smuggling of contraband goods going on at virtually all times in modern history. Thus, presto! The federal government can suspend the writ of habeas corpus virtually any time it wants!
Do Gov. Abbott and other Republicans want Joe Biden to be able to claim the power to detain people without charges anytime he wants? That's where their logic leads! I expand on this point in greater detail here.
If the framers and ratifiers of the Constitution had expected the invasion provisions of the Constitution to have such radical implications, one would expect them to note it at some point during prolonged debate over ratification. But there is no evidence that they did. The habeas corpus issue, in particular, is one that would have raised hackles in the Founding era, as British abuses of habeas corpus were a major grievance during the American Revolution.
Legal issues aside, the drumbeat of rhetoric equating drug smuggling and immigration and invasion has dangerous policy implications. An invasion is the kind of thing to which governments usually respond with overwhelming force. The more people think immigration and drug smuggling are equivalent to an invasion, the greater the likelihood there will be political pressure for such draconian measures as killing migrants, family separation (which Trump may seek to revive if he returns to power), and the idea of turning the War on Drugs into a real war by invading Mexico (a dangerous proposal increasingly popular in GOP circles). At the very least, "invasion" rhetoric moves the Overton Window on such ideas in the wrong direction.
For the moment, Abbott's invasion statement is likely to have only very limited effect. The Supreme Court ruling merely lifts the lower court injunction barring federal officials from cutting the razor wire installed by Texas. It does not actually order Texas itself to do anything, or even to refrain from installing additional wire. Thus, were are left with a weird situation where the feds can cut the wire, Texas can install more, the feds can cut it again, and so on. That may continue unless and until the courts resolve the case more fully.
But Texas's invasion arguments have dangerous implications for both legal and political reasons. Courts would do well to continue to reject them.
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So Ilya, states are powerless to deal with illegal aliens streaming into their jurisdictions?
Kate Steinle couldn't be reached for comment.
It's not a state issue.
Except the practical consequences are a state issue. Especially if the federal government fails to enforce the law.
Find another country, more to your liking.
Do you believe in the rule of law, Rev? Or the rule of "Whoever is in charge can ignore the law if it suits them"?
I see no one ignoring law, although Gov. Abbott is indicating he plans to do it (which might be just lack-of-virtue signaling for his gullible, bigoted, disaffected right-wing fans).
The US Federal Government is pretty clearly failing to properly enforce US Immigration law.
The Supreme Court has found in two cases now that Biden is following the law and Texas isn't. And also in a similar case when Arizona was trying the same shit with Obama.
And that's a 6-3 conservative court.
So no. You and Abbott are just wrong. Abbott is playing politics, and you're falling for it.
The fuck it's not. The feds have abdicated their responsibilities and forced the consequences onto the States and you leftists see that as a good thing.
We'd be better off if the feds had JUST abdicated their responsibilities. At this point they're actively facilitating illegal immigration, not just sitting idle.
The only thing the Feds havent done is send out formal invitations with rsvp's
And if somebody dug into the funding of the NGO's that are organizing the migrant caravans, we might discover they've done that, too.
For fuck's sake, Brett. Be more evidenced based.
Well, now that you've embraced The Barbed Wire Revolution, I guess nothing really matters. Not the law, not the fact, only your zealousness.
NGO Sends U.S. Tax Dollars to Caravans in Panama
Just curious, where in the Constitution does it say that the states cannot enforce immigration laws?
DAMMIT,
that's what I was gonna say
I think they should just put machine guns there and say "bleep it" and start shooting to kill.
Even if Bite Me brings Federal charges, the Constitution specifies that they must be brought in the Federal district where the crime allegedly was committed and he ain't gonna get a conviction there.
And the more brazen Bite Me gets, the more justified Trump will be in an Operation Wetback II -- and throw a few Federal judges in jail if necessary.
Didn't Madison write the Virginia Resolution of 1799? When the Feds refuse to enforce their delegated powers, the States who created the Federal Govt in the first place have the moral and legal obligation to step in to protect the Republic and our natural rights. The Trotsky like administration has trashed liberty and it is time the States interpose themselves as Madison said.
The Virginia Resolution did not involve Madison whining that the federal government wasn't "refusing to enforce" something; it involved a complaint that the federal government was doing things it wasn't allowed to do.
I think Somin weakens his article by deploring 'family separation'.
My understanding is that the Trump administration sought to eliminate a practice whereunder suspected illegal immigrants were cited, giving hearing dates, and then released with no means of ensuring that they'd show up for those hearings. It seemed analogous to arresting criminal suspects and then releasing them without bail, and with no other way of ensuring that they'd show up for their trials, or, if they failed to do so, that it'd be possible to locate them for re-arrest.
The Trump practice was to detain these suspected illegal immigrants until such time as their hearings could be held. Given that these suspects included families with minor children, the choice was then to imprison the adults together with the childen, which would've meant putting the children in mass detention facilities with many unrelated adults; constructing and maintaining family-detention facilities, at a considerably higher cost than that of single-sex prisons; or maintaining separate detention schemes and facilities for adults and children, viz., family separation.
Now, what do we do if a child's custodial parents face criminal charges, and the courts have good reason to believe that they'll skip town if released on their own recognizance pending trial? I suspect that we don't put that child in one of the adult prisons along with one of the parents; rather, we lock up Mom and Dad and deliver the kid to Child Protective Services. And we, or all but the bleedingest hearts among us, recognize that as an unfortunate necessity, and don't bewail it as gratuitous cruelty.
That's right, Trump was just doing what other governments do when parents are detained.
When did conservatives -- especially the bigoted, gape-jawed clingers -- stop disdaining foreign law and championing American exceptionalism?
When we became too spineless to use machine guns.
Ratttattattatt.
Or use a neutron bomb...
I thought the previous comment which only suggested machine guns was rather unoriginal as Dr. Ed 2 insanity goes, despite the promise of Trump jailing judges, but that he would call for killing people with machine guns and at the same time hesitating to write more than "Bleep it" was the chef's kiss.
This comment? I think neutron bombs are a new suggestion for Dr. Ed 2, and nuking Texas couldn't possibly have undesired consequences, so it's nearly peak Dr. Ed 2. The comments further down are disappointingly weak by comparison.
Stick to American governments, if you want. Detaining the parents requires doing something with the kids. The issue is just a distraction.
Even Chuck E. Cheese can match up adults with the kids they brought. The Trump administration could not be bothered.
Yup, same thing. Really.
Completely opposite in the intent of the people in charge. The moral bankruptcy of people not taking responsibility for reuniting children and parents, whether in deportation or asylum, is shocking.
Yes, the only thing that has been keeping Texas (or any other state) from launching a full-scale military attack on Mexico (or another foreign nation) all these centuries has been the interpretation of the word "invasion" in the Constitution.
Men have been making "slippery slope" arguments for millennia. This is quite possibly the most ludicrous.
What, if anything, does qualify as an invasion under this reading? It’s a mass of foreigners with the intent to stay. Their motives are usually economic. So it’s incursion, conquest, and plunder, but somehow that doesn’t add up to invasion? No country ever has to fight the United States military. They can simply have their army show up at the southern border out of uniform walk in.
The more people think immigration and drug smuggling are equivalent to an invasion, the greater the likelihood there will be political pressure for such draconian measures as killing migrants, family separation (which Trump may seek to revive if he returns to po), and the idea of turning the War on Drugs into a real war by invading Mexico (a dangerous proposal increasingly popular in GOP circles). At the very least, “invasion” rhetoric moves moves the Overton Window on such ideas the wrong direction.
This is indeed the correct solution. The intent isn’t to kill anybody, the intent is to stop the invasion. The United States/Mexico border should look a lot like the North Korea/South Korea border. Landmines, barbed wire, trenches, and machine gun nests would go a long way to deter invaders.
It is, by the way, rather astonishing that the liberal position has evolved from "static defenses don't work" to "we have to take down the static defenses, it's making it too hard on the invaders."
And, as always, this is a "For The USA Only" policy. Still not hearing you call on Israel and Ukraine doing the same thing against their invaders.
Just for the record, over two divisions of military age Communist Chinese males are here (so far).
It is not incursion, conquest, or plunder. Using synonyms for invasion doesn't make it any less stupid to call the peaceful migration of civilians "invasion."
David...Is it trespass? If yes, could that state trespass offense have deportation as a punishment?
Is there any legal maneuver or face-saving way out of this mess. If anything, just to buy some time for passions to cool?
Is there any legal maneuver or face-saving way out of this mess.
Yes. Call your congressman. They could fix this in like a week.
Yes. Call your congressman. They could fix this in like a week.
Enforcing the existing law fixes it instantly
Why would anybody believe an administration that ignores existing law will suddenly follow a new law?
an administration that ignores existing law
Well, the Supreme Court disagrees with you, so your argument is pretty impotent.
Well, the complaint has been that TX is overwhelmed. Its services are breaking. So, maybe help them out. Send EMTs, educators, whatever it is they need to get back to where they weren't complaining about being overwhelmed. And, since Abbott has previously indicated that getting them out of TX is a solution (he's been busing them) get them to some other states or have other states offer to help (everyone seems to need labor).
And, yes, change the humanitarian parole policy (Biden) and creat more pathways to legal immigration (Congress).
NYC and Chicago have complained loudly about getting a tiny percentage of what Texas faces on a daily basis.
Ever hear of the Trojan Horse?
Shoot the bastards!!!
It's all of those things. When they cross the border unlawfully, that's an incursion. When they're here, they have to live somewhere-- that would be conquered territory. They're getting money somehow. That would be plunder. All the elements of invasion are there, it's just that a lot of importance is being attached to the lack of military uniforms.
In other words, you really do believe your own bullshit.
No, it's migration.
Not unless they plant their flag in the ground and claim the land for Guatemala. I did not, in fact, "conquer" the condo I used to live in or the house I currently live in. I rented the former and bought the latter.
No, it would be employment. Plunder requires violent theft.
Invasion
Insurrection.
Words are hard, according to Barbie
Lets consult the final authority. Humpty Dumpty has some thoughts
The United States/Mexico border should look a lot like the North Korea/South Korea border. Landmines, barbed wire, trenches, and machine gun nests would go a long way to deter invaders.
*insert "are we the baddies?" meme here*
If you're the baddies, the machine guns are facing towards your own territory, to keep people out.
It's like the way that I'm not guilty of imprisoning my family when I lock the front door...
Can’t be the baddies because no one outside your border is human!
It's not that they're not human, any more than I lock my front door because my house is surrounded by zombies. It's just that they don't have any right to enter.
Right of exit is an important human right, essential to preventing tyranny. Right of entry is an utter fiction.
You're talking about machine guns and land mines as cool and good.
Did you miss that in your haze of dehumanization?
No, I didn’t miss that at all.
If you don’t have a right to enter a place, you can be prevented from entering that place. And if you are on notice as to the consequences of entering a place you’re not entitled to enter, the consequences are on you if you chose to enter anyway. No matter what the consequences might be.
You see barbed wire on fences hereabouts, for all sorts of places where entry isn’t permitted. Substations. Chemical manufacturing plants. Hell, even used car storage lots.
If somebody decides to enter anyway, and gets cut up on the barbed wire, do I blame the property owner? Hell no, I blame the trespasser!
You’re reasoning about these illegal aliens as though they have no agency, no free will. Like somebody is herding them across the border.
NO. They are actively choosing to illegally enter a sovereign country, and they know damned well what they’re doing isn’t legal, and if consequences result, that’s on them. They chose those consequences.
Stop treating them like migrating birds or a flood of water. These are people who are choosing to do what they are doing, and they know that they’re breaking the law in doing it, and I have no more sympathy for them than for somebody who electrocutes themselves trying to steal copper at the local substation.
No less, of course, but it's a very limited, "I regret that they chose badly." sort of sympathy.
Did you fall on your head?
People who enter private property illegally can be arrested, but only in fantasyland does their physical transgression of the boundary justify the use of deadly force.
"Trespassers May Be Shot" may appear on the sign, but it isn't an accurate statement of the law.
There's an FN factory not far from here, I would not suggest you test out that theory on their armed guards. I don't think they're carrying guns purely for show.
Whether people who illegally enter private property can be met with deadly force is a statutory choice on the part of legislatures. In Texas you can legally shoot trespassers if you believe they're committing a fairly long list of crimes, some of them non-violent. If Texas wanted, they could just say it was open season on trespassers.
But all this is irrelevant, as I was replying to what I took to be a moral, not legal, point on the part of Sarcastr0. "Dehumanization" not being a legal term.
I don't believe it dehumanizes people in any way to say that they have agency, that the consequences of their voluntarily undertaken crimes are on them, and if they don't want those consequences, they should refrain from the crime.
They can simply have their army show up at the southern border out of uniform walk in.
That's called defecting, not invading.
Not if they're doing it as ordered. That was the Russian "Little Green Men" strategy for invading Ukraine in 2014.
But… that's not happening here. This is not the Mexican military or Guatemalan army trying to infiltrate the U.S.
It doesn't have to be military to be an invasion.
It does, in fact. Peaceful migration is not an invasion.
Unless you're just making the pedantic point that a militia rather than formal armed forces would also qualify, in which case I don't really disagree but it's irrelevant because this isn't a militia, either.
Why couldn't the Federal Government get a grand jury to charge the Texas officials doing this (including Governor Abbott) for a Klein defraud conspiracy--impairing and impeding the lawful functions of the DHS?
Because the citizens of Texas might just decide they've had enough and start whipping ass? I think that's a consideration.
I think Abbott is making the same calculation that the Houthis are. He doesn't think that Biden has the balls to come after him like that.
The politics are on Abbott side. A much larger portion of the country is in favor of Abbott's border solution as compared to Biden's, and so Biden arresting him risks making him a martyr, not to mention focusing public outrage on an administration that is actively fighting to leave the border open.
That trial would make a hell of a 2028 campaign platform for Abbott.
This isn’t a policy issue, it’s a rule of law issue. I don’t think your calculation is right.
Regardless, I can see Biden choosing to deescalate, but I hope he calls Texas’ bluff; they’ve been playing this stupid game for quite some time
https://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics/2009/04/perry-says-texas-can-leave-the-union-if-it-wants-to/
Make Texas open fire on federal employees.
And a TEXAS jury will acquit them...
Just sayin....
Take your meds.
Ooooohhh, what a burn! Just like the original Castro, you don't have a sense of humor.
He also doesn't respond to arguments. Ad hominem is his style.
Are you defending Dr. Ed's murder plan?
You really are amazing at repeatedly disappointing me by being even shittier than my already downwardly adjusted view.
Ignoring the peanut gallery for a moment, I think it is very hard for Biden to make a "rule of law" argument when he is explicitly refusing to enforce federal immigration law and is now forbidding Texas from enforcing it either.
As a technical matter, that is correct: only the feds can enforce federal law, but Biden does not have clean hands here.
Plus, again, I think Abbott is making the calculation that if Biden comes after him in some headline generating fashion, it will make it impossible for the president or his supporters to pretend that they are doing anything but enabling the surge of illegal immigrants across the border, and will essentially guarantee Trump's reelection. Abbott thinks Biden will be forced to back down.
Biden is, of course, not "refusing to enforce federal immigration law." You people really need to stop getting your information from right wing propaganda outlets rather than actual news sources.
Biden is, of course, refusing to enforce federal immigration law. He's going beyond that, and actually expending resources to facilitate violations of federal immigration law. Paying people to cut barbed wire, instead of install it.
You don't know the law. You don't care that you don't know the law. Vibes have become the law to you.
How un-Brettlike you have become.
As near as I can tell, you think immigration law just gives the President arbitrary authority in the area of immigration, rather than actually directing him to do anything.
Hey - happy to have some substantive discussion for a sec.
1) The law: What IS the 'federal immigration law' about border control that the US is refusing to enforce?
Because it is very much not some black letter 'the border shall be inviolate. That would require a lot of money and people and probably result in pretty bad optics in the required use of force, etc.
I'm not sure this is in force, but it gives some good background about what the law actually *is*.
https://www.ice.gov/doclib/secure-communities/pdf/prosecutorial-discretion-memo.pdf
2) The facts.
Despite what the right screams, the Biden Admin is deporting a lot of people, many from Texas, and many for just crossing the border illegally. (https://www.ice.gov/spotlight/statistics)
3) Perception.
People are unaware of the above, or don't care because of their priors. Which means what you laid out is what people think is happening.
But the Supreme Court has ruled, the government can cut that wire. Texas would have to use force to prevent that. If Texas does that, it becomes something quite different from the issue presented above - it becomes Texas shooting at American citizens doing their job.
I don't think that story will play as well as the dime store revolutionaries around here think, even if the policy at issue is one folks favor.
OTOH, the weight of good policy may be not to tempt that particular crisis, and let Texas have it's jollies. It's over the misery of illegals, but what else is new?
I view it as akin to how some of our sillier cities are currently treating shoplifting.
Both shoplifting and coming to this country without permission are illegal. There is no dispute on this point. However, there is a certain amount of leeway for prosecutors and presidents to decide how enthusiastically they are going to enforce those laws, and rightly so – it would be absurd to launch a seven state manhunt for one illegal immigrant or one shoplifted bar of soap.
On the other hand, the current regime, in which a prosecutor simply ignores most shoplifting, or feds refuse to take meaningful steps to reduce the porousness of our Southern border, crosses over into extralegal repeal by inaction. I realize that’s a judgment call, but we have 6 million illegal immigrants in this country that weren’t here 3 years ago, and our current procedures seem designed to allow another 2 million in this year (deporting 140,000 is a rounding error in the face of those numbers). It’s really hard for me to credit that this is not deliberate.
Also note that the memorandum you linked was Obama’s interpretation of immigration law, and contained a great deal of talk about limited resources and focus on department priorities. It sounds, in fact, exactly like what someone would write if they didn’t approve of immigration enforcement and wanted to do as little as possible.
The Trump era memorandum looks a little different: https://www.aila.org/files/o-files/view-file/F6E0BA55-A659-403E-90C4-76D3DBCAD970
That's a good analogy, because the cities that won't prosecute shoplifting, WILL prosecute you if you try to stop it yourself. They've passed beyond inaction to actual defense of shoplifting. Just as the present administration has moved beyond mere refusal to enforce, to actually facilitating violations and obstructing anyone else's attempts to enforce.
I think we're actually on a similar page re: the policy, perception, and politics.
But I have a lot of factual issues.
1) I don't think it's fair to say that the Biden admin is ignoring enforcement or doing anything remotely like inaction. Certainly the contextless numbers you provide do not say that, without a baseline. The could as easily indicate underfunding. And USCIS released gross throughput that shows quit a bit of action.
2) I also don't like that 6 million number.
First, having a number at all with 2023 on it raises my antenna - a blitz number released asap is going to be full of assumptions and subjectivity.
Second, I can't find the number.
Best I could find is 2021 numbers (published in 2023 because slow is how legit science works)
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/
3) The Trump memo is actually pretty supportive of discretion - it just talks a tough game about what discretion won't be, and doesn't say what it will be. But it will be there - it has to be.
And that discretion is intended by Congress.
Bottom line - any claims that Biden is breaking the law are incorrect. For many on here, it's zealotry fueling intentional ignorance of the law.
But the perception doesn't care about incorrect. That's the issue.
"1) I don’t think it’s fair to say that the Biden admin is ignoring enforcement or doing anything remotely like inaction."
I think it would be fair to say they are doing as little enforcement as they think they can get away with, (Which is not zero.) and sneaking in a bit of anti-enforcement where they can.
"2) I also don’t like that 6 million number."
I don't like it either, but it comes straight from the government's own reports.
"3) The Trump memo is actually pretty supportive of discretion – it just talks a tough game about what discretion won’t be,"
Sheesh. Yes, deciding to enforce a law is "discretion", and deciding to NOT enforce a law is "discretion".
Your telepathy can find all sorts of sins. It doesn't mean shit, though.
And I know you're smarter than that re: discretion. Trump didn't deport everyone either, so how did he prioritize, other than performative cruelty?
That is kept unwritten. And you fell for that most obvious of spins? What the hell has happened to you?
Trump didn't have the resources to deport everyone, because of deliberate decisions by Congress. But, he deported as many as he could. And prioritized within resources.
Biden, with the same resources, is 1/5th as effective, and you pretend that's not deliberate. You just look stupid doing that, but you keep at it.
What the fuck does “1/5th as effective” even mean?
Tipping the hat back to you, I think you are broadly right that nothing Biden is doing is illegal, and you are definitely right that federal authority trumps state authority.
However, there is a great deal of space between "illegal" and "acceptable discretion in enforcing the law." After all, it wasn't illegal for Chesa Boudin cease prosecuting street crime, but it was still unacceptable behavior in a DA.
I don't know what Biden believes about immigration in his heart of hearts (although given his record, it is probably vacillating, barely coherent, and stolen from somebody else's work), but I do know that his policies have consistently been limited in scope and effect (compared to what Trump's managed with essentially the same budget), and I know that his administration, like Obama before them, views of the immigration issue in terms of racial justice, rather than in terms of law enforcement, cost, or (until recently) the will of the voters.
And I'm sorry if you don't like the 6 million number, but that appears to be the Biden administrations own estimate. It may be off by a significant fraction, but even if it's only 4 million, that is an awful lot of people. Plus it might be 8.
Who decides: “acceptable discretion in enforcing the law?” SCOTUS already weighed in a bunch.
I know that his administration, like Obama before them, views of the immigration issue in terms of racial justice, rather than in terms of law enforcement, cost, or (until recently) the will of the voters
I don’t think you can assume this, given Biden’s history.
Is racial justice in the mix? Sure. But voters are no doubt there as well (Biden is a political animal), and so is law enforcement at least to hear USCIS tell it.
In the end, absent some specific statement, the unspoken motives of a politician are not a useful question to ask. No upshot other than partisan grinding.
As for the 6 million number, it could be legit, I just can't tell what it is an estimate *of* You seem to be using it as an estimate of the net flux of illegals from 2020 till 2023?
If that's what it is, yeah, I would guess the estimation protocol is janky as all hell.
Crap data standards are not unheard of in the Biden admin, believe me!
I don’t think the Court can legitimately issue a writ of Mandamus ordering Biden to resume border enforcement. But they can damned well stop pretending that the Supremacy clause makes federal decisions to violate the actual law supreme, and let the states get on with filling the gap.
It's an invasion and we're done pretending it's not. It's about time someone settled the issue. If you are uncomfortable with that, too bad.
Curious how it can be called an invasion when the biden administration has done everything to encourage the migration except send out formal invitations?
Nothing curious about treason.
I guess we're done with originalism now? We needed it for Dobbs but that's done so fuck it, we can go back to making up whatever meanings we want!
Funny, Ilya was all for mobilization of the military to move these same people from MV. Just shows the only true motivation of Leftists like him is hatred of their fellow Americans and a need to punish them for disagreeing, nothing else.
.
Better Americans have tired of the un-American, antisocial, racist, gay-bashing, half-educated, superstitious, gape-jawed, misogynistic, and otherwise bigoted right-wing residents of our can't-keep-up, parasitic backwaters.
Better Americans aren't bulletproof -- and you are talking a TEXAS jury. Texas which still has "needed killing" as a justification for homicide (seriously).
Read up on the American Revolution....
Somin reminds us of the evils of Leninism and Stalinism again, by proposing his own dictatorial and anti-American rules.
Texas should move to arrest anyone damaging the fence. They could try withholding some of the near seventeen billion dollars in Federal Excise taxes paid by the state to pay for the illegal immigrants.
All-talk, blustering, obsolete right-wing assholes are among my favorite culture war casualties . . . and the target audience of a white, male, bigot-hugging blog with a vanishing thin (and misappropriated) academic veneer.
Texas could refuse to recognize GSI license plates and arrest everyone driving a Federal vehicle for unlicensed operation.
It'd take a good month to sort that out...
No, Texas could not, and it would take 30 seconds to sort out.
Speak Spanglish Gringo!
"An invasion is the kind of thing to which governments usually respond with overwhelming force." And this is proper. But here begins the author's farcical wordplay, typical of this era's Bootless Bulwarks. To make his point, the author carefully omits the word "illegal" before "immigration" and morphs "forceful" into "draconian": the author states "The more people think immigration and drug smuggling are equivalent to an invasion, the greater the likelihood there will be political pressure for such draconian measures" when he could have stated "The more people think illegal immigration and illegal international trafficking of drugs is equivalent to an invasion, the greater the likelihood there will be political pressure for forceful measures."
How odd that the author suggest we should not want foreceful government response to invasion, illegal immigration, and illegal international trafficking of drugs! A Bulwark against forceful government action against illegal behavior? Pish-posh. Do we say that Professor Somin is "Pro Illegal Activity"?
It is fine to wish to change a statute, but it is wrongful to subvert our laws -- to foment insurrection against our Constitution -- as Somin attempts to do. We have considered immigration, have deemed certain behaviors illegal, and expect our government to respond forcefully to that which is illegal. We have considered international drug trafficking, have deemed certain behaviors illegal, and expect our government to respond forcefully to that which is illegal. We have considered invasion, have deemed certain behaviors illegal, and expect our government to respond forcefully to that which is illegal.
The comments from SomeGuy2 above are appropriate.
SomeGuy2 also thinks illegals renting a house is "conquering" the territory...
Republicans are the ones preventing effective enforcement. They simply don't want to pass the necessary legislation while Biden is President. Speaker Mike Johnson recently actually said this out loud.
How is not enacting new laws the same as preventing enforcement of existing laws?
You aren't going to receive a response to your question.
The existing laws are being enforced to the full extent of the funding that Congress has provided.
Biden asked for more funding and was denied by the Republicans because, as Captain Crisis pointed out, they "don't want to give Biden a win in an election year." They love the border chaos because they think it helps them politically (which, they're right about, because their voters are too dumb to realize what's going on).
This of course is why CBP officers are out there working for free trying to cut the razor wire.
This is, of course, bullshit, because Biden is actually diverting enforcement funds to anti-enforcement. Like paying people to CUT barbed wire, instead of installing it.
Yes, we don't think killing the immigrants is the right answer.
Well, I don't think it is, either. That's the sort of thing you only do after you've done everything else available, and they keep coming anyway.
You lock your front door before you shoot people who invade your home. But if you lock the door and they kick it down? Plug 'em.
Congress has not appropriated enough money to enforce existing laws.
Congress has not appropriated enough money to enforce existing laws.
Trump administration had more than enough money to manage the boarder.
I wouldn't say that. He had enough money to keep it from getting totally out of hand, but could have done a much better job with more funding. As it is, he was having to play tricks with the National Emergencies Act just to get funding for his border wall.
I don't think there's much question that Congress is deliberately underfunding border enforcement in order to limit its effectiveness. They actively WANT a significant amount of illegal immigration, though they can't come out and say so.
Biden is just going way beyond Congressional intent, and actually spending border enforcement money to facilitate illegal immigration, instead.
Trump would've fixed up our border for a fraction of what we've spent to fix up Ukraine's border.
Ilya is all in favor of doing that, mind you.
David Nieporent 14 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"Congress has not appropriated enough money to enforce existing laws."
DN - There has been No cut in funding since the trump administration
Try another excuse.
Congress didn't appropriate enough money to enforce existing laws in the Trump administration, either.
And yet with the same budget he was about 5 times more successful at enforcing the law.
Maybe because he was actually trying to?
He did a lot of things that were illegal.
Not that I'm aware of.
Family separations, indefinite detentions, illegal deportations, cages, pilfering money from the military. Probably more but those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.
Republicans are not stopping Biden from enforcing existing laws!
Republicans are not stopping Biden from enforcing existing laws!
Yes, they are. Enforcing laws takes $$$. The immigration laws at the moment are an unfunded mandate.
Remember, Trump had to raid the military’s bank accounts in order to try to build a useless wall, which didn’t work because taking the military's money was illegal (obviously). Maybe Biden should raid Trump’s bank accounts in order to get the money for border security…?
I know! Biden should take the money from Texas bases… Randolph, Lackland, whatever… Texas is in no position to complain.
Randal - that is BS - the funding is there.
The funding was there during the bush, obama, trump and biden administration. Biden simply is not expending the money for that purpose
No, there's just way more people coming than there were before.
There are lots of reasons for that. The perception that Biden is pursuing an open-border policy is certainly one of them. But that perception is mostly coming from you guys. So... there's yet another reason this is all the Republicans' fault.
I'm only half-joking. Biden should be doing a much better PR job, both of discouraging immigrants from coming in the first place, but also defending his policies as the best he can do given what he has (which is true). Hopefully he figures that out before he loses the election over it.
Randal 2 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
No, there’s just way more people coming than there were before.
There are lots of reasons for that. The perception that Biden is pursuing an open-border policy is certainly one of them. But that perception is mostly coming from you guys. So… there’s yet another reason this is all the Republicans’ fault."
Randal - its a little too early for revisionist history. Republicans think that because Biden signed executive orders on his first day in office and announcing he wasnt going to enforce immigration law .
Actually facts blow away your lame excuse
Republicans think that because Biden signed executive orders on his first day in office and announcing he wasnt going to enforce immigration law .
Back up your bullshit.
Stop acting like you didn't know this stuff is true. It's not like he did it secretly.
JANUARY 20, 2021
Executive Order on the Revision of Civil Immigration Enforcement Policies and Priorities
"Executive Order 13768 of January 25, 2017 (Enhancing Public Safety in the Interior of the United States), is hereby revoked."
Executive Order 13768
Here's what he revoked:
"It is the policy of the executive branch to:
(a) Ensure the faithful execution of the immigration laws of the United States, including the INA, against all removable aliens, consistent with Article II, Section 3 of the United States Constitution and section 3331 of title 5, United States Code;
(b) Make use of all available systems and resources to ensure the efficient and faithful execution of the immigration laws of the United States;
(c) Ensure that jurisdictions that fail to comply with applicable Federal law do not receive Federal funds, except as mandated by law;
(d) Ensure that aliens ordered removed from the United States are promptly removed; and
(e) Support victims, and the families of victims, of crimes committed by removable aliens."
Biden literally, on day 1, revoked an executive order directing that immigration laws be enforced.
Proudly, with much pomp.
Come on Brett, you should know we’re not that stupid. You quoted the meaningless pap section. You don’t need an executive order to “enforce the immigration laws.” Do you think every law needs an executive order in order to get enforced? Dumb.
The meat of the executive order had things like attempts to punish sanctuary cities and attempts to co-opt local officials. That’s what Biden was rejecting.
Oh and sanctions on the countries of origin. What’s that gonna do other than result in more migrants? Really dumb.
No, Republicans were talking about it all through the election. Immigrants were waiting Trump out. It's the only way to explain the immigrant surge that happened right when Biden was inaugurated. There wasn't enough time for policy changes to have had that kind of effect.
Biden told them to come. They listened.
No, you guys told them to come.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNLn912fVxg&t=2s
You can watch him say it if you want.
Why in the world would they have done a silly thing like that if there was no change in actual policy between the two administrations?
As Randall said, because you people told them there would be.
Not even close. He said -- let your eyes drift upward two posts if you don't believe me -- "you guys told them to come."
But since you seem to be bent on making a more refined Very Clever Argument, where were the desperate, scrambling efforts by the administration to hold the line when they first encountered this utterly totes unexpected surge? Where was the screaming that they needed more resources to reinforce the border right then?
Oh, wait, they already HAD resources to keep reinforcing the border. Biden deliberately stopped building the wall within hours of taking office -- even explicitly ran on that! Maybe -- just maybe -- THAT was what the wave was waiting for.
The gaslighting from you guys is really reaching epically sad proportions.
The funding was there during the bush, obama, trump and biden administration
...Did you mean to include Biden in there?
Anyhow, this is just bullshit. The exact same open borders rhetoric was deployed against Obama and even Bush at times.
All of them had to make prioritization decisions. All of them got dinged by right-wing nativist zealots.
Except Trump; he was sufficiently cruel they were willing to give him a pass for still letting people in.
Notably that response doesn't refute a goddamn thing.
Trump is attempting to sabotage bipartisan legislation on the matter because he doesn't want something good to happen while Biden is President.
Fuck him for putting himself above America, and fuck every last one of you people for thinking that's acceptable behavior.
Not a shred of what you said above is even close to the truth, JC.
Really?
Go fuck yourself, you fucking liar.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4430186-trump-push-to-deny-biden-victory-aggravates-lawmakers/
Haha. You don't want it to be true, so you try for angry denial.
Guess, what? It's well reported! Gonna have to do some work to rationalize this, eh?
He's stopping ANOTHER GOP cave on immigration.
It's the usual "Well, give amnesty NOW and EVENTUALLY we will fix the border"
Except the border never gets fixed. We've seen that repeatedly now.
Good on Trump for killing this.
Yes they are.
Take your complaints to Mike Johnson and the lunatic wing of the Republican Party.
Those disagreeing with captcrisis are carefully talking around the *actual immigration law which includes enforcement* that the GOP is currently blocking to avoid Biden getting a win.
McConnel told a closed meeting of Senate Republicans Wed that the politics of the border has flipped for Rs and cast doubt on linking Ukraine and border. “When we started this, the border united us and Ukraine divided us.” “The politics on this have changed,” McConnell then told his GOP colleagues.
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1750295162310349121
This isn't about dealing with any actual issues.
It's just tribal political bullshit with some nativist performance thrown in.
The fundamental problem here is that, when you're violating existing law, you can't get anything from the other side in return for stricter laws. Because the other side has no reason to believe you'd obey the new law, either.
This has been a thing in immigration law debates since the Reagan amnesty, and the failure to deliver on the strict enforcement it had been in exchange for.
Until the law is being followed, there's nothing to negotiate about. You can't make grand bargains with cheats.
So, McConnell wants to make a bargain anyway. So freaking what? Republican voters have been fighting back GOP establishment attempts to take a dive on immigration for literally decades now, nothing new in that.
You don’t even know what was in the deal. But you reject it out of tribal vibes.
Your knee jerk spite based plan to never do anything ever and then yell it’s the Dems fault is bad for America.
I know that the deal deprioritizes enforcement once illegal immigration is reduced to a level we'd never seen before the last couple of years.
Why would that be, if not that they want to retain more illegal immigration than we'd seen until the last couple of years?
Mostly they're keeping the details secret, which is a REALLY bad sign.
Johnson warns Senate on immigration talks and vows to impeach Mayorkas soon
“Many of our constituents have asked an important question ‘what is the point of negotiating new laws with an administration that will not enforce the laws already on the books,” Johnson wrote."
Precisely. So long as the administration will not enforce existing law, there is no point in new law. You can't bargain with people you know won't keep their end of the deal anyway.
McConnell, of course, is willing to bargain anyway because he doesn't CARE if the deal is upheld.
Indeed. Same argument is why I vigorously oppose new gun control measures.
Try enforcing what is there to determine what is needed before adding more crap in.
I am so sick of this bald-faced, outright lie.
The law ALREADY EXISTS. There is NO NEED for Republicans to pass another one. It's on the Biden administration to enforce the ones already on the books.
It's incredible that people say the above BS and still get away with it.
Supreme Court says no.
Cap- check your facts
first day in office Biden effectively announces he is not going to enforce immigration law with his first day in office executive orders..
"The Department of Homeland Security announced two significant immigration policy changes late Wednesday that include a 100-day pause on deportations for some undocumented immigrants. The department also announced that asylum seekers who attempt to enter the United States will no longer be part of a controversial policy enacted under former President Donald Trump that has forced tens of thousands to wait in Mexico for American court hearings.
The deportation moratorium and changes to the Migrant Protection Protocols, also known as "remain in Mexico," come on President Joe Biden’s first day in office. He also signed executive orders rolling back additional Trump-era immigration policies."
I love reading Ilya comments without reading the article.
When foreigners force their way across another country's borders by the tens of thousands and in a manner that violates that country's immigration laws, it is an invasion. Unless you believe shoplifting = shopping, this shouldn't be hard to understand.
But engaging in a conspiracy to prevent the newly elected president from taking office isn't an "insurrection". Got it.
No, it isn't an insurrection when done through the legal process.
Spoiler alert: it wasn't.
It’s weird that our author never mentions that Texas is a border state, not even once. The US border completely overlaps the Texas border. It defies common sense to completely ignore the fact that those millions of law-breakers are crossing into Texas as well as the US. And, if reports are to be believed, these law-breakers are also crossing onto private property without permission when they come here.
So now you have up to three different injured parties. It cannot be that there is no one else people can go to for relief other than the US. Especially when it is the US which is actually aiding the breaking of the law.
Why can’t the Democrats get this lawless administration under control? Is this what they want? If they lived in Texas and millions upon millions of people were streaming across their property, would they truly be holding up signs reading “Welcome to America”?
And why in the WORLD would Democrats give the Trumpists such an easy political win? Who's running the playbook these days at the DNC? They have to be the most incompetent people imaginable to allow this flood of lawlessness go on and on and on.
Well, Democrats don't run right-wing media, who are the ones pumping up the issue, the same way they do every four years, nor do they have any particular control over morons like yourself.
Democratic presidents have always deported hundreds of thousands of people, interdicted migrants at the border, and processed asylum claims as quickly as their resources have allowed. Biden himself has employed tools left over from Trump, selectively exercised authority to regularize migration of certain groups, and deported plenty of people. The problem is that migrant flows are even worse.
So what is he supposed to do? The truth is that Republicans don't know what they want, either, or they're unwilling to voice it too loudly. The only thing that seems to have any disincentive on migrant inflows is systematic, deliberate cruelty. Families in jails, children disappeared into bureaucracy, razor wire and death traps on the border.
That being the case, if your question is, "Why haven't Democrats called for that?" the reason ought to be obvious. We don't call for Biden to shoot migrants at the border because that would be wrong. That would be murder. America doesn't shoot people crossing the border. That's what North Koreans and the Soviets did.
Orin Kerr @OrinKerr
Wow, that is impressively stupid.
Cannot imagine why "expertise" has taken such a beating.
A few million illegally coming across the border is not an invasion but a few thousand illegally entering the Capital is an insurrection. That may sum up our next election.
It has for me...
It's almost like the purpose of an action determines what that action is.
It will never be possible to understand how Somin can possess a near-religious devotion to the inviolable nature of private property, while simultaneously having such utter disdain for the concept of national sovereignty.
Property lines are sacrosanct; borders are meaningless.
Point of order, only American borders are meaningless. Somin has repeatedly declined to advocate for Ukraine and Israel adopting the same policies. For some reason, he doesn't think Hamas should be able to immigrate to Tel Aviv.
That's right. Liberties for Ukrainians, Israelis, and Mexicans, but not Americans, Russians, or Palestinians.
You think Hamas just wants to "immigrate" to Tel Aviv?
It’s pretty straightforward. To Professor Somin, nations don’t really exist. People do. Their property gets protected by magic, or perhaps because people all suddenly simultaneously decide that thousands of years of human history and tens of thousands of years of human history are irrational and all suddenly simultaneously stop doing it. Which amounts to pretty much the same thing.
No, Ukraine has sacrosanct borders. The USA does not.
Why?
Ilya Somin: Because FYTW!
"This message paid for by Vladimir Putin."
Yup. Noting that our borders are just imaginary lines while we spend billions to protect Ukraine's borders is just propaganda.
Not, you know, reality.
Ukraine is not our concern and cutting off funding for them post haste is a necessity. We made this mistake in Vietnam in the 1970's and are doing so again now.
No, it's not "just propaganda;" it's just Russian propaganda.
Do you own Texas, or the United States?
It shouldn't be that difficult for someone with basic common sense. Prof. Somin is a libertarian. Libertarians believe that rights inhere in the individual, not the collective.
Except that nearly all of Somin's opinions are bad for the liberties of Americans.
Well, we can't all be you, knowing all things and able to speak with absolute certitude on all topics.
Open borders are not an article of libertarian faith. Most libertarians, like most people in general, understand national sovereignty and that a nation without borders is not a nation. There are two categories of people who favor open borders: extreme leftists who want to destroy this nation's social fabric and corporatists who want to flood the nation with cheap labor.
And given Somin's drama queen hysterics about January 6, one of many areas with which he shares common ground with the far left, he is certainly quite capable of expressing concerns over incursions on public property as well as private property.
Yup. It amazes people who claim open borders is a libertarian stance. My first political identity was as a Libertarian, I was an activist in the party from the late 70's, (When I helped found a college chapter!) until the late 90's.
Sorta open borders, (Not as open as Somin wants!) were on our to do list. At the bottom, after everything else had been accomplished. After all, you can't have open borders and a welfare state, it's insane. You'd attract every poor person in the world!
Has everything else been accomplished? NO. So, the libertarian position is, closed borders.
Somin isn't a libertarian, though. He's what we call a "liberalitarian", a form of libertarianism that has been warped to better appeal to left-wingers.
I don't agree with Prof. Somin, but if you think for a moment about the actual philosophy here, he is relying on small government libertarianism in being against inviolate borders, which are absolutely a big government program no matter how you cut it.
Your point, based on some particular people in 1970s, highlights the pragmatism of libertarians. *which is how I know it's bullshit*.
Somin isn’t a libertarian, though. He’s what we call a “liberalitarian”, a form of libertarianism that has been warped to better appeal to left-wingers.
This is some nasty gatekeeping.
It is also inconsistent with your own past writings - you said you left the libertarian party because it was not pragmatic enough to get anything accomplished. So you don't even have standing to say shit about what's libertarian.
The 'particular people in the 70's' were people who actually bothered reasoning about things, and understood the concept of path dependence, and that, if you were transitioning the US from a leviathan welfare state to a libertarian state, you had to accomplish things in a particular order, or things would go to hell in a hurry. They were serious libertarians.
They were like people who wanted a penthouse on the 51st floor, and started digging foundations so they could build the building it would be on top of. Ilya just wants the penthouse, and sees no reason the building should come first.
Ilya just wants what he wants, and doesn't care if getting it out of order will have horrific consequences. He's an utterly unserious libertarian, to the extent he is one at all.
Damnit, I posted a long reply and Reason just ate it. Fuck this terrible commenting system. It's bad enough that it fails, but it does so w/o even giving an error that tells you, so you don't even notice right away. Anyway, I'll try to recreate it:
Brett, you're not Dr. Ed, so when you say that you worked for the LP in the late 1970s, I don't think you're making it up. But you yourself weren't libertarian and didn't understand it. For example, here's the 1976 Libertarian Party platform:
"We should return to the historic libertarian tradition of avoiding entangling alliances, abstaining totally from foreign quarrels and imperialist adventures, and recognizing the right to unrestricted travel and immigration."
Here's 1980:
"We therefore call for the elimination of all restriction on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for those people who have entered the country illegally. "
So when you say their position was that borders should be at some point in the hypothetical future, "sorta open," but "not as open as Somin wants," you couldn't be more wrong. Their position was that borders should be totally open, immediately, far more than Prof. Somin wants.
And as to the rest of your claim, it's incredibly unlibertarian; libertarians do not believe that basic rights are contingent. "You can exercise this right, but only after X." And as I've pointed out before, you'd never accept that in any other context. "You can have the RKBA… but only after we've solved the WOD." "We should decriminalize opiates, but only after we've eliminated welfare." No. We can and should do all of the above, and work towards all of them at the same time.
1) Prof. Somin has never endorsed "open borders," which is some sort of MAGA shibboleth.
2) Next is the the rhetorical trick of slipping from the extreme claim of "open" borders to the even more absurd "without" borders. Other than a planetary federation, I don't know how a nation could be "without" borders. But the United States had what you people call "open borders" for the first century of its existence, and nearly open borders for the next half-century after that, and I assure you that it was in fact a nation during that time.
3) Open borders — if by that you mean free movement of peaceful people — are in fact an article of libertarian faith. No libertarian principle permits you (you individually, or you collectively with others) to try to tell me that I can't rent a room to Pablo from Mexico or hire Juan from Honduras to work in my factory just because they were born to the wrong people and/or in the wrong place. (Historically, borders are about delimiting the area where a government could seize property ("taxation"), not about excluding subjects.)
4) If you want to be reductionist, there are two categories of people who want closed borders: racists and economically illiterate people.
5) The problem with J6 was not the property part, but the incursion part.¹ If they had actually been "tourists," it'd have been no big deal; the problem was that they were attackers trying to facilitate a coup.
¹Dumb Argument That Nativists Think is Clever #1 is confusing a country with a house. Dumb Argument That Nativists Think is Clever #2 is confusing a peaceful migrant and an attacker.
4) If you want to be reductionist, there are two categories of people who want closed borders: racists and economically illiterate people.
+ lol
"1) Prof. Somin has never endorsed “open borders,” which is some sort of MAGA shibboleth."
Just vehement opposition to any limitations on illegals in the USA.
Now, he has been rock solid on the vital importance of Ukraine's borders. Nothing is more important than that.
Yeah, Ilya gets the first line below, but ignores the second. Maybe unicorns will secure our rights after Ilya and like minded fools lead to the dissolution of our government.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,..."
I only partially agree with Professor Somin.
1. I agree that the constitution’s reservation of power to the states to repel invasions does not apply to unwanted immigration, based in no small part because the states had, at the founding, an independent power to exclude unwanted immigrants based on the Importation Clause, and also based on the fact that the country had open immigration for a good part of its history despite the fact that peoplein some states objected.
2.Nonetheless, Governor Abbot is entitled to call it an invasion, as whether it is so for other purposes is not at issue. Moreover, Congress would be within its rights to declare it an invasion, invoke its own power to repel invasions, and ask the President to send troops to the border to keep them out by force. And even if this were not so, Governor Abbot has as much right to call it an invasion as opponents of assisted suicide had a right to call what Jack Kevorkian did criminal before the legislature specifically outlawed it.
It doesn't sound like you disagree at all, since Ilya never said Abbot wasn't "entitled to call it an invasion," just that it's stupid and dangerous for him to.
Prof Somin argues that immigration does not constitute an invasion, as a matter of fact (along with suggestions of dire consequences).
OK.
That seems to be an argument with which a reasonable person may agree.
At the same time a reasonable person could disagree, as a matter of fact.
WHO (beyond Prof. Somin and James Madison) is authorized to make the factual determination that an invasion exists and proclaim the existence of an invasion?
Surely someone or some entity within the United States government (inclusive of State governments) may determine and "proclaim" based on facts and authorized judgment that a state of invasion exists.
What entities may make such a determination and proclamation?
Prof.Somin indicates that States do not have such authority.
OK.
But then, who in the Federal government may make a determination and proclamation of a state of invasion?
It seems that either the Chief Executive/Commander in Chief can do so under Constitutional authority.
That position is based that on some understanding of the historical role of English Executives leading up to the drafting of Constitution, and indications in U.S. law, e.g. Prize Cases, 67 U.S. at 635 (“If a war be made by invasion of a foreign nation, the President is not only authorized but bound to resist force by force . . . without waiting for any special legislative authority.”); Kahanamoku, 327 U.S. at 336 (Stone, C.J., concurring) (“Executive has broad discretion in determining when the public emergency is such as to give rise to the necessity” for emergency measures); United States v. Smith, 27 F. Cas. 1192, 1230 (C.C.D.N.Y. 1806) (No. 16,342) (Paterson, Circuit Justice) (regardless of statutory authorization, it is “the duty . . . of the executive magistrate . . . to repel an invading foe”) (12); Mitchell v. Laird, 488 F.2d 611, 613 (D.C. Cir. 1973) (“there are some types of war which without Congressional approval, the President may begin to wage: for example, he may respond immediately without such approval to a belligerent attack”) (13); see also Campbell v. Clinton, 203 F.3d 19, 27 (D.C. Cir.) (Silberman, J. concurring) (“[T]he President has independent authority to repel aggressive acts by third parties even without specific statutory authorization.”), cert. denied, 531 U.S. 815 (2000);id. at 40 (Tatel, J., concurring) (“[T]he President, as Commander in Chief, possesses emergency authority to use military force to defend the nation from attack without obtaining prior congressional approval.”); Story, supra note 9, § 1485 (“[t]he command and application of the public force . . . to maintain peace, and to resist foreign invasion” are executive powers).
Or, such power resides with Congress.
I see no argument for such power residing with the Judiciary (at least as an initial matter).
If the power does not reside with the Chief Executive/Commander in Chief Chief under Constitutional authority, and instead resides with Congress, then does the Congressional authorization to the President under 50 U.S.C. §21 effectively authorize proclamation of an invasion, based on the President's judgment?
50 U.S.C. §21:
Whenever there is a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government, and the President makes public proclamation of the event, all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being of the age of fourteen years and upward, who shall be within the United States and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured, and removed as alien enemies. The President is authorized in any such event, by his proclamation thereof, or other public act, to direct the conduct to be observed on the part of the United States, toward the aliens who become so liable; the manner and degree of the restraint to which they shall be subject and in what cases, and upon what security their residence shall be permitted, and to provide for the removal of those who, not being permitted to reside within the United States, refuse or neglect to depart therefrom; and to establish any other regulations which are found necessary in the premises and for the public safety.
"Prof.Somin indicates that States do not have such authority.
OK."
Not OK. "No state shall ... or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay."
The Constitution absolutely contemplates states having the authority to determine that they are, or are about to be, invaded.
What it didn't contemplate is that they'd be invaded, and the federal government would refuse to do anything about it, or even interfere with their defense. Rather, the Guarantee clause mandates that the federal government defend states against invasion. It was contemplated and forbidden, actually.
So what we've got is the Supremacy clause running up against a federal refusal to comply with a constitutional mandate.
Abbot is right, what the federal government is doing now on illegal immigration is breaking the compact that formed the US. Not for the first time it's been broken, but it might be the most in your face breaking of it yet.
I do not disagree with you.
The "OK" was meant to advance toward highlighting that Prof. Somin appears to maintain that no one is authorized to make the factual determination that mass immigration may constitute an invasion.
FWIW, I currently expect a future president, Trump, or another, will declare an invasion, and that such a declaration will be used to lawfully limit birthright citizenship, consistent with U.S. v. Wong 169 U.S. 649
Contrary to Prof. Somin's apparent suggestion, a declaration of invasion does not necessarily involve suspension of habeas corpus. It seems that the "the public Safety may require it" portion of Article I, Section 9, Clause 2 could be put to scrutiny without being dismissed as a political question.
How many illegal migrants are living in your house, Ilya?
It is amazing how many stupid people think they're clever with this moronic argument. Prof. Somin's house is private property. The United States is not.
So that gives Somin the right to wreck everyone else's land? Does he stay on his private property all the time? No, it is not moronic to want to preserve the USA from invasion.
Do you somehow fail to understand that land in Texas, indeed any state, is owned? Most of it is private property. A good deal of the rest is state property. The balance is actually federal property.
Now, we can assume the illegals aren’t trespassing on the federal property, (Much of which ironically was seized during the Trump administration for building border walls…) because Biden wants them crossing the border.
But the state of Texas doesn’t want them, so every illegal alien illegally crossing into the US through Texas property is guilty of trespassing. For the most part, so are the ones entering through private property.
And that’s under perfectly ordinary property law, NOT analogizing state or national territory to private property.
Indeed, the barbed wire controversy has to do with barbed wire in a state park, which the state of Texas is perfectly entitled to bar entry to from ANY direction.
I suppose Somin could buy an acre of land along the Texas border, (If anybody would sell it to him knowing his intentions.) and put up a big sign reading, "Cross here, you're invited!". Illegal aliens entering from Mexico wouldn't be trespassing THERE.
Legally, it would probably qualify as an attractive nuisance, though, so he'd better expect to be on the hook if anybody drowned crossing the river by his sign.
Are you under the impression that the state of Texas can say, "This sidewalk is property of the state of Texas and therefore we can decide who may use it"?
Yes, I am under the impression that, within limitations imposed by the 14th amendment, the state of Texas can, in fact, say exactly that, concerning most property. And I don't believe that the 14th amendment is relevant at all to illegal aliens who are not yet present in the US, or is of more than limited relevance once they are here. "Alien" may be a suspect class, "illegal alien" is not.
And with absolute certainty, the state of Texas can erect a fence along the edge of one of their parks, and lawfully prohibit anyone from crossing it, and prosecute for trespassing anybody who does so.
Even a barbed wire fence.
Now, are you going to claim that a state can't erect a barbed wire fence along the edge of a state park, and prosecute anybody who attempts to climb over it? Do you really want that badly to have people laughing at you?
Nah, it is just a ploy to get Ilya and others to state that "this is not your country."
If we the people do not own the USA, who does?
Ilya is pretty shameless in omitting the "illegal" in "illegal immigration"; Nobody is claiming that legal immigration would be an invasion, after all.
Is it too much to ask that he actually engage with the opposing position, rather than deliberately misrepresenting it?
Well, I suppose we have ample evidence that it is; He's been doing this for years despite it being pointed out to him.
Ilya Somin - rephrased
"Legal issues aside, the drumbeat of rhetoric equating illegally entering the capital and insurrection has dangerous policy implications aside. An insurrection is the kind of thing to which governments usually respond with overwhelming force. The more people think protests and illegally entering the capital are equivalent to an insurrection, the greater the likelihood there will be political pressure for such draconian measures as killing protestors, long sentences using laws never before applied for this purpose (which is happening), and the idea of saving democracy by removing a candidate from the ballot or denying electors chosen by state vote when Congress meets (dangerous proposals increasingly popular in Democratic circles). At the very least, "insurrection" rhetoric moves moves the Overton Window on such ideas the wrong direction."
"But Abbott and most other Republicans are opposed to that." So many hyperlinks in your article supporting statements made. But nothing in support of this random statement.
The peaceful crossing of the border, even if illegal, is not an invasion under any stretch of legal doctrine. Forcibly transporting those who do across state lines, as Abbott and De Santis have ordered, is patent kidnapping and should be prosecuted.
...even if said adults agreed to it?
What troubles me is the impracticality of our American system of governance that allows different administrations to substantially alter key aspects of our society, some of which cannot simply be undone by the next administration. Indeed, after six-million plus illegal entries, is the next administration really going to deport them all? Not likely. It is not lost on me that neither China, nor Russia would likely tolerate such an influx of migration and that their methods of deterrence, while perhaps unpleasant to our value system, would be highly effective and almost immediate. If "immigration invasion" continues, my concern is that the American people will become more accepting of the idea of violent methods of deterrence including use of the military.
It's not so much a flaw in our system of governance, as that the system of governance, ANY system of governance, presumes some minimum degree of good faith and commitment to lawful behavior. Once you can't rely on that presumption, it all breaks down, and there's not really a practical way to replace that presumption.
The Founders were living in a society where personal honor was an important thing, where if somebody undertook an oath, they'd generally feel bound to its terms even if they didn't like them, and if they violated them, they'd be seen as fundamentally unworthy of being trusted, and the consequences of that would be ruinous.
That's why you have to undertake an oath to assume positions of authority, under our Constitution: It was assumed the oath would actually be treated as binding, and constrain your behavior.
We're not living in that sort of society anymore. We're living in the society of Holmes' bad man, who only cares about consequences, and has no concern at all with violating oaths absent them.
Well, maybe you could constrain Holmes' bad man by piling consequence on consequence, except that Holmes' bad man is writing the laws, and isn't about to legislate such consequences into place.
The Supreme Court has already said that what Biden is doing is completely legal. He's enforcing the laws as they exist.
Our society has a way to fix that. Congress! They can pass a fucking law if they really think the border isn't being enforced to their satisfaction.
You get that right?
Ilya, I have very mixed emotions on this issue. On the one hand, I agree, it is the role of the federal government. However, what is to be done when the federal government ignores its responsibilities? In this instance, it is not immigration. Immigration has a definition...it should be an orderly process, as established by the laws of the nation into which the individuals seek to emigrate. This is not an orderly process, it is anything but a process in respect of the laws of the intended new homeland. It becomes criminal, and in the numbers involved, becomes an outright invasion. When the national government refuses to deal with invasion, what are the options for the citizens of that nation? We are fast devolving into a nation where the supposed government can ignore the laws with impunity, yet the states and citizens are bound to their observance. The President, and thus the national government, has shown its intent to flaunt Supreme Court decisions on other issues, and in this case, to ignore its responsibilities under the Constitution.
The issue here is that the law lays out government responsibilities, and one of them is discretion in the use of resources to best meet a ton of contradictory goals.
This is not an orderly process, it is anything but a process in respect of the laws of the intended new homeland. It becomes criminal, and in the numbers involved, becomes an outright invasion.
For the most part, coming across the border as an illegal is not a criminal act. So criminal is not correct, even if illegal is.
Second, this is not the definition of invention. Apart from the lack of an armed force, your idiosyncratic definition seems to imply there is some magic number of people where it suddenly becomes an invasion.
The President, and thus the national government, has shown its intent to flaunt Supreme Court decisions on other issues
This is presumably about student loans. The Court said law A did not provide the authority. The government then tried to move out using law B. I don't know that they will be successful, but that's not flaunting the Court.
The issue here is that you ARE Holmes' bad man, and care only about power, and nothing about the responsibility the power was granted to fulfil.
Spiderman said, "With great power comes great responsibility."
Sarcastr0 said, "With great power comes great discretion. Screw responsibility, if I've got power, I can use it for anything I want."
The federal government was given the power to control national defense so that they could defend the nation. Not so that they could decide it needed to be invaded, good and hard, and help the invasion along.
Abbot is perfectly right here: The Biden administration is breaking the basis on which it was given these powers.
At this point 26 states have declared they're backing Texas in this fight, national guard troops are being sent to Texas from across the country, and now the Border Patrol Union has decided to back Abbot, too.
Biden can back down, or he can continue marching the country towards civil war. It could go either way, he does seem to fancy the idea of siccing F16s on Americans.
This new 'immigration law as it stands is great and strong' is stupid, but I should have expected it.
In reality, the law, as anyone who knows anything will tell you, sucks. It's a contradictory tangled mess badly in need of reform. It's bad for legal immigrants, it's bad for administrative policymakers, it's bad for federal law enforcement, it's bad for illegals, it's bad for the public both in it's impact and in it's lack of modernized transparency requirements.
But *of course* the right has simplified this into 'it's great but for Biden.' They've found great success rewriting a challenging reality into false partisan gruel to make it easier to digest for simpletons.
"it’s bad for illegals"
Fuck them. The law isn't supposed to be good for criminals.
I have not read the court opinions that rejected Texas' argument. That is my next stop. Setting aside policy arguments, at this point, I would like to point out that the word "invasion," as it has been consistently defined since the mid 1500s, easily includes both illegal immigration and illegal drug smuggling. In addition to an invading army, the definitions include "A harmful incursion of any kind" and "infringement by intrusion; encroachment upon the property, rights, privacy, etc., of another person." The illegal nature of the entry is important here. Illegal immigration certainly causes harm to the State of Texas. It also constitutes an infringement of Texas' sovereign borders. Moreover, the courts could easily distinguish the hundreds of thousands of individuals and small groups who illegally entered the country in years past from the multitudinous illegal immigrant caravans, comprised of tens of thousands of entrants at once, currently entering Texas. In the end, I think the weakness in the argument Somin presents is that it focuses on two competing absolutes, e.g., illegal immigration is either an invasion or it is not. That is a very weak constitutional argument because the implications of 1 or 100, or 1,000 illegal immigrants entering the country are certainly different than 1 million or 10 million or 100 million illegal immigrants entering. The Constitution, at some point, must recognize that the number is great enough for the entry to be an invasion and permit Texas to protect its territory and its people.
Words can have metaphorical meanings. The British Invasion could describe the War of 1812 or the Beatles. Only one of those was an invasion in the constitutional sense.
If any serious person thinks this is an invasion, what's your proposal? Kill them all, or POW camps?
It's not an invasion if you're not really gonna treat it as an invasion. It's just wordplay and politics.
Leave them in Mexico. If they still try and enter, then their deaths are on their own heads.
I also would not punish a homeowner for killing somebody illegally entering their home.
So your answer is kill them.
This is why this strategy will ultimately backfire on Abbott and Trump. They don’t have any (real) solutions either, just silly press conferences and “declarations.” All while blocking actual progress in the Senate. Not a good look.
No. My answer is to leave them in Mexico. If they choose to invade, then they are to be treated as an invader.
"This is why this strategy will ultimately backfire on Abbott and Trump. They don’t have any (real) solutions either, just silly press conferences and “declarations.” All while blocking actual progress in the Senate. Not a good look."
Biden is free to constantly demand Abbott open the border. Your belief will likely not work too well.
"Sure, we are ignoring the law. BUT, if you pass THIS law, though, you can totally trust us to follow THIS one. Believe me. Scout's honor",
The Left has killed ALL trust on immigration matters by repeatedly violating agreements. It is time for THEM to put up first before the Right even considers any of their proposals.
I wonder when the good author will apply this to Israel and petition for open borders and the rightful return of Palestinians who were expelled by the nationalistic/socialistic/zionists in 47? Open borders for all right or is this really animal farm Trotskyites?
He should apply it to Ukraine, given how much money we've spent to protect their borders as opposed to our own.
We should also encourage Israel to ignore the international community and do what is needed to protect their existence. It is up to the Jordanians living in Gaza to change their ways.
Denazification worked in Germany. Time to try the program in Gaza.
"Denazification" hasn't worked so well in Ukraine...
See, the thing is, we know that MAGA are both stupid and evil. So it's not clear how much this is just shilling for Putin/hating Hispanics and how much of it is you being too stupid to understand the difference between an invasion (Russia-Ukraine) and immigration (Latin Americans-U.S.)
IT is clearly 'invasion' to me ,with no qualification.
Sure, the President is lazy and stupid but he did say the exact same thing
Jan 27, 2024 — President Joe Biden urged Congress to pass a bipartisan border deal that would allow him to declare an emergency and shut down the border.