The Volokh Conspiracy
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Political Ignorance and Misinformation on the Left
Liberal political commentator Matt Yglesias explains why these problems are far from being confined to the right side of the political spectrum.
Political ignorance and the closely related phenomenon of misinformation are serious problems. But most commentators are far quicker to identify them on the opposing side of the political spectrum than on their own. For that reason, prominent liberal political commentator Matt Yglesias deserves credit for recognizing that left-wing public opinion is far from immune to these dangers. In a recent post, he highlights two types of misinformation that are widely believed by left-liberals: climate catastrophism and massive overestimation of the number of unarmed African-Americans killed by police:
In a democracy, those who govern are accountable to a mass public that overwhelmingly comprises people who don't think much about politics and policy and who really don't know much about it. That real-world citizens are not idealized deliberators is a really important aspect of how society functions, and it's important that everyone who cares about such things try to understand it….
But this whole genre of genuine inquiry into public opinion dynamics has gotten derailed, I think, by the sort of goofy idea that Donald Trump was swept into power by a tidal wave of "misinformation…."
The thing that makes this sort of superficial analysis so seductive is that it's not exactly wrong. Most people really are very poorly informed about politics and policy. A lot of campaign messaging is pretty misleading. A lot of media coverage is sloppy and propagandistic. It's also true that as a result of education polarization, over the past few cycles, Democrats have mostly done worse with relatively uninformed demographic groups (poor white people, working-class Hispanics) and better with relatively well-informed high-SES whites. This is to say that if you set out to find misinformation among people voting Republican, it's not hard to do so. But it's a totally unprincipled inquiry unless you take a systematic look at misinformation, in which case you'll see it's hardly confined to Republicans…..
I think the most salient example of this is climate change, where you not only have rightists spreading insane conspiracy theories (Trump used to say it was a Chinese hoax), but you also have a lot of very influential wrongheaded ideas on the left.
Perhaps the most prominent version of this is the idea that the world faces a hard tipping point to climate apocalypse sometime around 2030. This is routinely debunked (here's Scientific American) but keeps popping up….
I also think many people don't realize that natural disaster deaths have become much rarer over time because for most people, the benefits of living in a richer world with better technology far outweigh the hazards of living in a warmer world…..
Meanwhile, in addition to overstating the most likely consequences of the status quo, it's common to hear grossly exaggerated accounts of the ease of getting to net zero with current technology. That's often paired with undervaluing energy in general… These are errors that have had meaningful policy and political impacts, but that get totally ignored in a misinformation discourse that locates misinformation exclusively on the right….
One suggestive survey indicated that about 40-50% of liberal or very liberal people believe 1,000 or more unarmed Black men are shot and killed by the police in a typical year. I have a lot of qualms with the methods used in that survey, which I think encouraged overestimation across the board. But if nothing else, it demonstrates that a huge share of the population is operating with very little factual information about a subject it purports to believe is very important. This is not unique to liberals or the topic of police misconduct —it is, rather, fairly typical of average citizens' general lack of engagement with policy or facts.
For context, the total number of people killed by police in recent years is about 1000 per year, and a plurality of them (389 of 1097 in 2022, as compared to 225 blacks; there were 341 fatalities whose race is unknown) are white. And a large percentage of these fatalities were in fact armed criminals, not innocent people that police shot because of bigotry or just for kicks. Police brutality and racial profiling are serious problems. I recently urged my fellow libertarians to devote more attention to the latter. But the scale and severity of them (at least the former) are far less than much of left-wing public opinion believes.
To Yglesias' discussion of left-wing misinformation on climate change, I would add that, relative to conservatives and moderates, left-wing Democratic voters are also most likely to oppose nuclear power, by far the most effective "clean" energy source. It should not be hard to see how the combination of catastrophism and opposition to nuclear power is likely to strengthen support for a range of terrible policies.
The two issues Yglesias identifies are just the tip of a much larger iceberg of left-liberal political ignorance and susceptibility to misinformation. Other examples include Barack Obama's highly successful use of lies ("if you like your health care plan, you can keep it") to sell the Affordable Care Act to the public, disproportionate left-wing susceptibility to 9/11 "trutherism" (a counterpart to right-wing susceptibility to "birtherism"), and much else. An important recent study on economic ignorance underlying NIMBYism suggests that at least some of these misconceptions (that developers, rather than zoning regulations are responsible for high housing prices) are particularly prevalent on the left. As a longtime supporter of housing deregulation and author of The Rent is too Damn High, Yglesias can surely appreciate the significance of this particular type of left-wing ignorance.
Overall, social science research suggests that susceptibility to misinformation cuts across the political spectrum, and isn't necessarily much greater on one side of it than the other. The fundamental problem is that most voters have little incentive to seek out information about policy issues, or to objectively evaluate what they learn. They are instead rationally ignorant, and often act as biased "political fans" rather than truth-seekers. Yglesias is right to highlight that "[m]ost people really are very poorly informed about politics and policy" and that this is a deeply rooted aspect of democratic politics. And the problem is exacerbated by the enormous size, scope, and complexity of modern government, which makes it difficult for even relatively conscientious voters to have more than a very superficial understanding of most policy issues.
The fact that left-wing voters often behave in these ways should not blind us to the dangers of ignorance and misinformation on the political right, of which Donald Trump's lies about the 2020 election are just one particularly egregious example. He effectively exploited political ignorance and misinformation in 2016, as well. I think Trump's lies and deceptions are, overall, worse than those of Obama before him, and have caused greater harm. But even if you believe the reverse, you still should not give your side of the political spectrum a pass, or assume that ignorance and misinformation only exist on the other side.
In many cases, it's possible to argue that ignorance and misinformation isn't causing much harm or are even having beneficial effects. For example, perhaps excessive fear of climate change has the beneficial effect of pushing progressives to work harder on finding a solution. Or perhaps it's a useful counterweight to climate change denialism on the right. "Miracle of aggregation" theorists argue that the errors of one side of the political spectrum can offset those of the other, leading the public as a whole to make good decisions.
In Democracy and Political Ignorance, I describe a number of scenarios where political ignorance can actually be beneficial. But I also explain why such cases are likely to be rare, and why "miracles of aggregation" are unlikely to occur in plausible real-world circumstances (though it's easy to construct theoretical models where they happen frequently). If you find yourself attracted to a story in which your own side's ignorance and bias just happens to have beneficial effects, while that of the other side is uniformly harmful, there's a good chance you're being misled by your own biases. At the very least, it pays to be skeptical of such stories.
In my view, the best approach to addressing widespread voter ignorance and bias is to empower people to make more decisions by "voting with their feet" and fewer at the ballot box. Foot voters have much better incentives to seek out relevant information and use it wisely than ballot-box voters do. Yglesias likely has a very different perspective on what should be done. I certainly can't resolve that longstanding debate here. But the beginning of wisdom is to recognize that the problem is widespread and not just confined to the terrible people on the other side of the political spectrum.
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Two in one day is too much Somin to take.
DeSantis embracing Berenson’s Covid disinformation is just like someone embracing 9/11 Trutherism…except the Covid disinformation actually led to hundreds of thousands of excess deaths. 9/11 Trutherism is dumb in light of the truth being worse than the conspiracy theory—Bush stole the 2000 election and then failed to prevent 9/11 and then lied us into an asinine war all the while mismanaging Afghanistan and killing twice as many Americans as Osama Bin Laden and selling us out to China. DeSantis killed 7 times as many Americans as Osama Bin Laden—all praise to Allah!!
If there is anything the poorly educated, bigoted, disaffected faux libertarians who constitute this white, male, right-wing blog's target audience can't stand, it is some genuine libertarian content.
This makes sense since every single thing lefties believe is wrong.
You're a fan of old-timey racism, childish superstition, selfish xenophobia, belligerent ignorance, half-educated backwaters, gay-bashing, Islamophobia, pining for illusory good old days, chanting antisemitism, nonsense-teaching schools, anti-government crankery, gun nuttery, and other conservative preferences?
Yes, Coach
Artie, do you really believe name-calling is an effective debate tactic/strategy? Or is it the only thing you've got?
For context, the white population of the US is roughly 70% and the black population is roughly 13%. Even if all those "unknowns" were white, white death-by-cops would be under-represetned, and Black death-by-cops would be over-represented.
But hey, I guess it's rational for you to depend on your reader's ignorance to not notice that sleight of hand.
But hey, I guess it’s rational for you to depend on your reader’s ignorance to not notice that sleight of hand.
Speaking of ignorance...try applying your reasoning (and I'm being overly generous there) to the fact that black Americans are significantly overrepresented (compared with their share of the population) in the number of individuals who commit violent crimes, thus making them far more likely to have adversarial encounters with police that are likely to escalate to violence.
Right, once you normalize for the crime rate, blacks are back to being under-represented; In any given encounter with the police, whites are substantially more likely to be shot than blacks. It's just that blacks have a disproportionate number of encounters.
And given the difference in crime rates, how could they not?
Where have all the 'indict a ham sandwich' libertarians gone all of a sudden?
'And given the difference in crime rates, how could they not?'
Which came first? A portion of the population that is over-policed and targeted by the cops is of course going to end up with a higher crime rate.
81% of African Americans want the same or more police presence in their areas. I don't think they believe they are "over-policed"
https://news.gallup.com/poll/316571/black-americans-police-retain-local-presence.aspx
Wow, they can't win. They don't want to be targeted by the police because they're black, and they don't want their neighbourhoods to be without a police presence at all. Which is it black people? Make up your minds! Because having a police presence that doesn't target people just because they're black is just not gonna happen, apparently.
The good news is that there are fewer conservative bigots in America every day, as older right-wingers take their stale, ugly thinking to the grave and are replaced by better and younger Americans in our electorate and society in the normal course. America becomes less bigoted, less rural, less backward, less religious, and more diverse each day. Bigoted, superstitious Republicans hardest hit.
If you've got a police presence in a black neighborhood, they're going to be policing black people....
But perhaps you can cite some study or statistic to back up your point that "They don’t want to be targeted by the police."
What do you imagine "targeted by the police" to mean?
Victimization surveys, where people are polled as to whether they've been victims of crimes, show the exact same areas to be high crime. So stuff it, the high crime rate is real.
And what is the racial makeup of these victims?
Same as the makeup of the victims, usually.
Cops chasing suspects not stopped for violent crimes or having warrants for violent crimes is super dumb in the age of body cams. Let suspects run especially when the cops have possession of their car!!
You might think this is the fault of black people. I think it suggests the police are institutionally dysfunctional.
Yeah, and I think you're full of it.
I don't think ANYTHING is the fault of "black people". Thinking something is the fault of a racial group is amazingly stupid, because these groups are heterogeneous on every basis except, trivially, being members of that racial group.
It's the fault of criminals, obviously. Criminals are disproportionately black, this is objective truth, no matter how much you dislike it, or demand people ignore it, but criminals being disproportionately black doesn't make "black people" criminals.
Tell us about black culture again, Brett.
Sacastro - any particular reason you are harping on Brett for a factually correct statement
Sacastro – any particular reason you are harping on Brett for a factually correct statement
To the pathological liar, nothing is more irritating than the truth.
Is there some reason you felt compelled to ask that immediately after I'd pointed out why it was an imbecilic request?
“Over-policed and targeted by the cops”, nice narrative but there are other ways to measure crime by race than just who the police decide to arrest.
“Findings are based on the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), a self-report survey administered annually from January 1 to December 31.1. Annual NCVS estimates are based on the number and characteristics of crimes that respondents experienced during the prior 6 months.
Blacks were victims of violent crime at 135% of the rate per 100k as whites, and the vast majority of the perps were black as reported by black victims.
https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv20sst.pdf
So unless you are going to blame the victim, and most specifically black victims, you’re going to have to give up than line of attack.
And of course this study leaves out murders, because it's hard to survey murder victims.
Nige 16 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"Which came first? A portion of the population that is over-policed and targeted by the cops is of course going to end up with a higher crime rate."
That comment is stupid even by your standards. Police presence does not create additional crime.
Ah, but, you see, that's a hate-fact.
Since the context is the belief that "1,000 or more unarmed Black men are shot and killed by the police", your quibble is irrelevant.
Since your facts are wrong (whites represent slightly less than 60% according to the latest census, not 70%), your comment is less than trustworthy.
And since the relevant numerator is armed criminals (see the article's comment above about the vast majority of police killings being of armed criminals), the ratio of the population at large is also irrelevant.
Huh. Whataya know. Since 2010, it has dropped from 72.4% to 61.6%. Interesting.
More 'Hispanics" calling themselves "white", apparently.
I wondered why Prof. Somin didn't nip that obvious one in the bud, but maybe he overestimated the intelligence of his audience?
"Black death-by-cops would be over-represented"
Also "Black death-by-other blacks would be over-represented"
See Chicago stats for any weekend.
“depend on your reader’s ignorance to not notice that sleight of hand” he says while hoping everyone ignores his sleight of hand.
Funny how you could adjust for raw race numbers but not for violent crime by race.
"Funny how you could adjust for raw race numbers but not for violent crime by race."
Because pushing a grievance matters to him and telling the truth doesn’t.
You left out that Black Crime is "Over-Represented"
and don't blame me, I've arrested exactly ZERO (HT Coach Sandusky) Afro-Amurians,
haven't killed any of them either
Frank
The current popular (on the left) usage of "misinformation" is a lie, and is code for dissent. Show me someone who wants to combat "misinformation" and I'll show you a bad actor who wants to silence the Right and all right-leaning media including social media, blogs, and podcasts.
The terms "hate speech" and "extremism" are misused the same way, including by recent initiatives of the Justice and Homeland Security departments, recently glowingly presented on the uber-statist Lawfare blog. Those promoting them are violating their oaths and committing treason.
Pretty much.
What's the proper response to "misinformation," "hate-speech," and non-violent "extremism" (as in: A saying / writing something that B doesn't like and considers "extreme")?
As far as the government is concerned, no response is warranted. People have a right -- in our case, a constitutional right -- to engage in "misinformation," "hate-speech," and non-violent "extremism." It is not the government's place to try to prevent / punish this.
As far as private persons / entities are concerned, it is perfectly appropriate to "combat" these things by pointing them out, explaining how they're wrong, presenting the "true" facts, etc. What is not appropriate is, as jdgalt1 said, trying to silence people. If you do that, you are the bad actor, much worse than the supposed purveyor of "misinformation," "hate-speech," etc.
Yes, I'd bluster bullshit like that if my side was responsible for the election fraud Big Lie and was connected to the extraordinary beliefs of the cult of Qanon.
I was under the impression that the Cunt®™ (legally known as Hillary Rodham Clinton) was on your side.
The Cunt®™ not only created the Big Lie®™, she commissioned a fake dossier to convince the FBI to lend the illusion of credibuility to her Big Lie®™. The damage it did to the credibility of federal law enforcement will become apparent over the next few years.
My logntime Usenet ally, Christopher Charles Morton, posted in the comments section of a Cleveland Plain Dealer article soon afrter the 2016 election, noting how the Democrats were acting like the German ultrarightwing circa 1919, comparing their Russian Collusion®™ nonsense with the Stab in the Back®™ conpiracy theory. At the time of course, he could not have predictyed thatfederal law enforcement resources would be used to give the illusion of credibility to this version of the Stab in the Back®™, nor how this would have been done via a fake dossier the Cunt®™ commissioned, nor how the Democrats would continue to copy of the behavior of the German ultrarightwing, including engaging in censorship.
The Cunt®™ is America's worst villain and america's worst villain.
Is it any wonder Chris influenced my own political views for twenty-five years!
https://ethicsalarms.com/2023/05/17/assorted-ethics-observations-on-the-durham-report-part-ii-the-substance/
She didn't create any Big Lie.
'she commissioned a fake dossier to convince the FBI to lend the illusion of credibuility to her Big Lie'
This is gobbledegook.
'comparing their Russian Collusion®™ nonsense with the Stab in the Back'
Wow, where was this hero when anyone opposing the post-9/11 wars were anti-American fifth columnists, given that he cribbed this comparison from the response to that in order to cover for Trump's lies and general dodginess. Comparing an investigation onto the dealings of one single politician to lies about entire sections of the population is pretty sad.
The rest is more gobbledegook that does not translate well outside whatever right-wing bubble you cultivated it in.
RussiaGate was orchestrated by Bush Republicans. Comey and McCabe and Mueller and Rosenstein and Priestep and Wray are all Bush Republicans that wanted to install Pence as president. And Hillary threw the Steele Dossier in the trash…McCain dug it out and passed it along to his buddies in the FBI. Oh, and the biggest promoter of RussiaGate as MSNBC was also a Bush Republican—Nicole Wallace.
At this point - it is extremely hard to believe someone continues living that lie
How are those civility standards -- the ones you claimed to be enforcing when you censored commenters who made fun of or criticized your fellow right-wingers -- coming along, Prof. Volokh?
Do you still contend they exist, or are you ready to come clean?
Sure, none of us are free from the allure of a narrative.
The difference is that the right these days doesn’t just cherry pick – they choose misinformation.
The top set of points shows raw exposure: it’s what Google shows you when you perform a search. As you can see, it’s about the same for everyone.
The middle set of points shows what users actively choose to follow. This is not the same for everyone: Republicans choose to follow much more partisan news than anyone else.
The bottom set of points shows overall engagement and is even more dramatic. Republicans are far more likely to actively engage with partisan news than either Democrats or Independents.
The next chart shows how this shakes out in a measure of unreliable news:
Among Republicans, high engagement goes hand-in-hand with unreliability.
As before, the top set of lines is merely what Google initially presents. There’s little difference between partisans. But the bottom set of lines shows what people actively engage with, and the differences could hardly be more stark. Republicans freely choose to engage with far more unreliable news than anyone else. They crave it and they seek it out, even when the original search produces perfectly reasonable results.
Click through for charts, and the underlying studyhttps://jabberwocking.com/conservatives-actively-want-to-believe-only-lies/
(It's Kevin Drum's new blog)
The left is of course hardly free from sin, but at the moment the right is worse in both degree and kind.
Who did the charts?
Oh, come on: Democrats just actively want to believe in different lies, and because you believe them, you don't consider them lies.
The whole Steele dossier. Trump collaborating with the Russians.
Your Google search result chart? What the hell do you expect, when Google has a left-wing bias? Well established, too, by objective measures like their autocomplete censorship.
Why Google Poses a Serious Threat to Democracy,
and How to End That Threat
Lol. The $3T BBB won’t cost a penny. Inflation is back to zero. A tandem falsehood gas stoves cause asthma and climate change but we aren’t going take them away. Hurricanes are getting worse because of climate change!!!
The border agents were using their reigns like whips!!
I could do this for hours.
You can babble incoherently for hours? Yes. In response to the only coherent phrase in that mess:
https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/link-between-heat-and-hurricanes
See, for instance.
"If greenhouse warming causes a substantial increase in hurricane activity, then the century scale increase in global and tropical Atlantic SSTs since the late 1800s should have been accompanied by a long-term rising trend in measures of Atlantic hurricanes activity."
"But statistical tests reveal that this trend is so small, relative to the variability in the series, that it is not significantly distinguishable from zero (Figure 2). Thus the historical tropical storm count record does not provide compelling evidence for a greenhouse warming induced long-term increase."
Trump put "Kids in Cages"
Oh wait, that was Barry Hussein in 2014, so it was OK,
Frank
bevis, this is a sad progression of strawmen. It’s like what the left things as filtered through a bunch of right wing media….huh.
Republicans freely choose to engage with far more unreliable news than anyone else. They crave it and they seek it out, even when the original search produces perfectly reasonable results.
Naw, its that Google has a left-wing bias! Did you really misunderstand the study so bad?
You’re in deep, dude.
Studies demonstrate that yes, it does.
The study is not about Google.
Epstein (this one) is a kook. His methodology is a joke that nobody takes seriously.
Unreliable news....you mean like NYT, CNN, MSNBC and WaPo? Those bastions of truth and journalistic integrity? 🙂
Your arrogance is just as bad as Yglesias'.
The truth is, when it comes to politics and ignorance, there is no difference between Team R or Team D. People are people.
People have come to believe the journalists are repeatedly intentionally unreliable. Hands Up Don't Shoot, Nicholas Sandman. Both lies were repeatedly reported after the facts had been revealed. No excuse for knowingly reporting outright lies. The media is more like cheap propaganda whores. Worse than Pravda ever was.
...and have no interest in stories that don't fit the narrative.
Where is the curiosity on the "Hale manifesto"?
The Who-What??
it's obvious He/She manifested some ideas the Marxist Stream Media would find "Uncomfortable"
Frank
Pravda reporters would blush (or cheer), looking at America's contemporary media.
Google biases its search results (especially concerning the news) towards left leaning sites.
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/google-news-media-bias
Is it surprising? No. Google itself leans heavily to the left, in its donations from employees, its employee voting patterns, and more.
Google tends to hire properly educated, reasoning, skilled employees. Those employees tend to reside in modern, successful, educated communities and to have earned degrees from strong, mainstream schools (rather than nonsense-teaching, backwater religious schools).
How many of those people would an informed person expect to be Republicans or conservatives?
Even if that analysis were valid, the problem is that there essentially isn't any conservative news source in the U.S. You've got lean-liberal news outlets and you've got conservative propaganda mills that have given up any pretense of doing journalism and that view their mission as to spread GOP or MAGA talking points.
I would love it if there were a leans-conservative news outlet that I could follow to balance out the NYT or WaPo or whatever. But there isn't. There is no demand on the right for actual news reporting. Fox News had a handful of personalities that tried to be adults — Shepard Smith, Chris Wallace, etc. — and they got rid of pretty much all of them in favor of… well, loons. But the issue isn't just that their current staff is filled with crazy people; it's that those crazy people aren't trying to do journalism. Newsmax and OAN never had any sane reporters. And non-TV media? Breitbart, The Federalist, etc.? Forgetaboutit.
Indeed.
Often you see a VC blogger posting about news he read in the NYT or the WaPo. You rarely if ever see him post about news from Fox News or any other right wing outlet.
"You’ve got lean-liberal news outlets and you’ve got conservative propaganda mills that have given up any pretense of doing journalism and that view their mission as to spread GOP or MAGA talking points."
This is just flat out bias on your part. "All my guys are good, all yours are evil".
Not much to say beyond it if you can't see that.
“All my guys are good, all yours are evil”.
Have you ever said anything other than this yourself?
DMN is not a liberal - his 'guys' are not who you think they are. You keep making this mistake.
“Sure, none of us are free from the allure of a narrative.”
Left wingers have the self awareness to admit this. As can be seen here, right wingers don’t.
If "left wingers" had self awareness they'd call for the NYT and WAPO to return their Pulitzers for the Russiagate reporting.
Start with Soviet propagandist Walter Duranty.
Which story or stories for which the NYT or WaPo won the Pulitzer for Russiagate was false? (You do know that the way the Pulitzer works is that they won it for specific stories, not for overall coverage of an issue, right?)
For that matter, setting aside the Pulitzer issue, which Russiagate stories do you contend were substantially false?
You do know that the only hoax is the idea that Russiagate was a hoax, right? The gist was confirmed bipartisanly by the SSCI and non-partisanly by Mueller. And implicitly by Durham, after spending four long years desperately trying to find something wrong with it and being unable to do so.
Do you mean "false" in the sense that they lied about what sources said? Or "false" in the sense that they chose to accurately report the words liars uttered, and not inform their readers that they knew they were lying?
Because, you could accurately report what the Steele dossier said, and not report that it was a collection of scurrilous lies, and in the former sense your reportage would be perfectly accurate, and in the latter is would be complete bullshit.
Ha!
Talk about lefty ignorance.
Do you realize that two-thirds of Democrats just responded to a Harvard-Harris poll, declaring that the Durham report stated that the FBI acted fairly and even-handed in their treatment of Trump and other political cases, even though the Durham report uses very plain language to state the exact opposite?
Same survey had roughly three-quarters of Democrats declaring that the piss-tape was real, and two-thirds that Hunter's laptop was completely fake.
Many lefties are deep into their own ignorance, it's just that they, like you, are too ignorant to even know it.
Durham says the FBI should have opened a preliminary investigation instead of a full investigation…sounds worse than Watergate. /sarc
I’ve never had a point so completely and utterly proven. No self awareness at all.
And Horowitz's investigation didn't even agree with that! He agreed that Crossfire Hurricane was properly predicated.
A misdirection – he agreed that it was in line with FBI policies. But
But also
Durham tried to paint it that way, but not very convincingly.
Whether or not you were convinced is not relevant to what the report's contents were, and almost two-thirds of Democrats believe its contents were the opposite of what they actually were.
Be fair, they could also be either too dishonest or evil to admit such.
And here you see many many of the commenters here saying yes, they seek out unreliable sources because they don't believe the media because they've been told it's not worth checking other sources.
Way to go, guys, you'll now believe anything you're fed.
Ban everything from straws to flavored vapes.
Theres no such thing as a man or a woman. Its a social construct
Communism just hasn't been tried properly.
Yep, no shortage of crazy things leftists believe. But they're the 'rational' ones.
So tiring to hear Somin act like he's neutral and even handed when he's not.
Trump electoral disinformation, which is horrendous, but no mention of Hillary election denial and disinformation (using the FBI too!), 2000 Selected not Elected and black voters in Jax were blocked by police from the polls, and 2004 Ohio Diebold machines and congressional objections to electors don't exist in Somin world.
I wonder if there's something that happened shortly after the 2020 election that didn't happen after any of those other things you talk about that makes people put more weight on it.
Are you referring to the peaceful tourists and legitimately concerned citizens who visited the Capitol on January 6 and are being persecuted for it?
The fans of this conservative blog (and at least a few of the Conspirators) are very supportive of John Eastman, the violent insurrectionists, Donald Trump, the Proud Boys, Jeffrey Clark, and similar un-American, disaffected right-wing losers.
Carry on, clingers. So far as your betters permit. (Ask Stewart Rhodes, Pauline Bauer, Nathaniel DeGrave, Peter Schwartz, Thomas Webster, Guy Reffitt, Richard Barnett, and dozens of other worthless stains on our society about that.)
Your side supports Petwer Strzok, Lisa Page, and Kevin Clinesmith!
Please don't feed the troll. The most you'll get is to be called a clinger due for replacement.
I resemble that remark! I'm the troll on this "Blog"
Frank
Well, there was the Durham Report.
The Cunt®™ (legally known as Hillary Rodham Clinton) went far beyond what Stacy Abrams was accused of doing.
She commissioned a fake dossier to convince ther FBI to give the illusion of credibility to her claim. This in turn damaged the reputation of the FBI, the consequences which will become apparent in the years to come.
What a Cunt®™ she is!
Prof. Volokh thanks you for expressing that vulgar bigotry today . . . it means he doesn't have to get back to offering his brand of bigoted content quite so quickly.
Black voters were purged in higher numbers from the voter rolls in 2000. And the definitive study found Gore would have won had Harris and the Supreme Court not behaved unethically and conducted a common sense recount like Florida ended up passing laws to implement going forward.
Matt Yglesias certainly knows about ignorance.
...and helping to spread it through dis-information (what would normally be called lies).
Just ask his wife, the aborto-obsessed ditzbrain who writes for Reason.
Didn't know that. Who?
His wife is Kate Crawford. I can't speak to that strange characterization one way or the other.
'prominent liberal political commentator Matt Yglesias'
Haha. Ahahaha. Hahahah. Oh, mercy.
Prof. Somin apparently has been spending so much time in the clingerverse that he doesn't recognize a liberal any more, except in caricature.
Interesting Somin didn't highlight the number one bit of misinformation....the whole Russia-Trump collusion misinformation.
I think he was aiming for stuff they're not so heavily invested in that they would never, ever admit it was false.
Do you think Trump disqualified himself when he lied during the E Jean Carol depositions?? Because you believe lying in depositions is an impeachable offense if the individual being deposed is president.
He wasn't president when he did so, so he couldn't be impeached for it.
Trump tried to collude. He thought he was colluding.
Keep spouting your misinformation.
As usual he’s comparing ideas that are fringe on the left with ideas that are mainstream on the right.
"I think he was aiming for stuff they’re not so heavily invested in that they would never, ever admit it was false."
He had to pick stuff that was fringy on the left, or you'd just say it was true.
I suspect this is a bit of projection on your part as to the strategic motive of the piece. He just picked two examples of misinformation widely held by people on the left, that could be shown to be misinformation in a straightforward way.
The network broadcast and print media has been the biggest purveyors of misinformation since before 1994. (To put this in perspective, Irvine Valley College beach volleyball alum Hailee Earnest had not even been born yet!)
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.rush-limbaugh/c/gZg_XyptjyU/m/NiPCvQIctwUJ
Well I have to look that up for myself. I’m just going by what I
see/read in the news media.
– Darryl Hamilton
That’s an interesting approach, kind of like trying to determine the actual
intelligence and character of Black people by watching “Birth of a Nation”….
– Christopher Charles Morton
I have not observed anything in the past twenty-nine years that
made Chris's statement any less true.
I have no idea who "Christopher Charles Morton" is, but a quick google shows that you keep reaching back for 30 year old discussions on usenet because you've got nothing legitimate to support your arguments.
To be fair, usenet had some inventive porn.
Yeah, there needs to be a systemic analysis of misinformation on both sides, but the parade of woolly, vague bullshit, outright assertions, reliance on surveys that are admitted to be dodgy, and single examples on the left that have to equate to nearly everything said by people on the right and which would have surely to be believed by people on the left to be an example of actual misinformation that has taken root. Equating ignorance with people not liking the stuff you like and assuming they reached that opinion because of misinformation.
For sure political ignorance exists everywhere, but I frankly expected more compelling examples:
Perhaps the most prominent version of this is the idea that the world faces a hard tipping point to climate apocalypse sometime around 2030.
The AOC statement is weird (I doubt she was being literal) but that's more an issue on how to communicate climate change dangers, unavoidable outcomes keep getting slightly worse, and really bad ones slightly more probable, but the exact outcome isn't clear, so there is a tendency to hyperbole.
Either way, that's a very fringe belief on the left, even more so the 9/11 trutherism.
As for the number of unarmed black men killed by police, that's more of a classic "people have no frame of reference for realistic numbers". Though it does highlight a major gap in reporting. I would have assumed a small fraction of unarmed black men killed by police make the news. From the numbers in the report it looks like the majority of such killings get significant media attention.
'The AOC statement is weird (I doubt she was being literal)'
Clearly she wasn't, she was even paraphrasing in the quote itself, but the linked article that was supposed to prove her wrong did more to support her tone than refute it with its asinine wooliness and appeals to unfounded optimism. 'The same people she was paraphrasing are campaigning for action on climate change therefore the people campaigning for action on climate change should campaign less forcefully because they're upsetting people?' What? It didn't prove there wouldn't be tipping points around 2030, it was just tone policing, like Yglesias himself.
You should take them literally about what they believe. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hank-johnson-worries-guam-could-capsize-after-marine-buildup/
I have no idea who the Congressperson is, but a remark like that seems more likely to be a joke that didn't land than a person who thought the island would flip over.
Video of it is still easy to find, and not very long. You can decide whether he acts like he is joking, or whether that was an excuse he came up with later.
That's almost certainly an underestimate, since accurate statistics aren't kept and people who have tried to compile the data have had to try to rely on news reporting. (This is perhaps best illustrated by the fact that 1/3 of the incidents that were uncovered they didn't even have the most basic information about who was shot.)
Also, the "unarmed" number is an underestimate, because cops routinely consider someone armed if the victim has something that looked like it could be used as a weapon, whether or not a real, non-coward-cop would actually consider it a weapon. And even when the person is armed with something that could reasonably be called a weapon, cops create the narrative that the person was threatening them with it even when the person wasn't. Laquan McDonald was murdered by a Chicago police officer, and the story was that he had a knife and had lunged at the cop. That was a lie, of course. He did have a knife, but he was 20 feet away from the cop and walking slowly away from the cop when the cop rolled up and shot him from behind. That gets tallied as an armed victim.
As for them being criminals, that isn't grounds for cops to kill someone; there's no reason to say, "Oh, the victim was a criminal so it doesn't count as a concern."
"…underestimate…”
When the statistics don’t fit your biases, make up a story about numbers that might. Keep it vague so you can’t be specifically refuted and so you can leave a false impression.
Pushing a grievance is important. Wouldn’t want even a few more Americans getting along peacefully with each other based on mere facts.
'lies ("if you like your health care plan, you can keep it")' -- predictions about how a law will work out in practice, like any forward-looking statements, are by their nature not factual assertions. Rational people understand that statements like "this tax cut will create jobs" may not pan out.
We have testimony from people who were in the loop in the White house at the time, that they knew damned well that it wasn't true.
You can argue that a prediction that doesn't pan out isn't the same thing as a lie, but when you're in charge of deciding if it pans out, and have no intention that it pan out? Yeah, it's a lie.
Bellmore, the people who made it not pan out did not work in government. They worked in insurance companies. They were at liberty to leave previous polices alone. Doing that has never really been part of the modern insurance business model, which is why it was predictable that it would not pan out.
The administration had the authority to make rules so more people could keep the plan they liked. Instead Obama fought a years-long court battle to force nuns to pay for birth control.
Aren’t local police departments notorious for underreporting police shootings?
The state of Florida is notorious for not reporting police shootings at all. (That may have changed).
Who needs information when you can just pretend the facts are whatever fits your biases?
Funny how most of the 'left wing' 'disinformation' relates to scale while the comparison 'right wing ' disinformation challenges reality itself
False.
The joke is on you and your mocking of "Chinese hoax"
China’s former top COVID official admits he can’t rule out lab leak theory
May 30, 2023
RIght on time 🙂
One thing we know for sure is that the leaders at Fox News deliberately lie to their viewers. Discovery in the Dominion lawsuit showed numerous examples of that.
Mainstream news outlets such as CNN, NPR, NBC, The Times, Wapo, USA today, etc. sometimes get it wrong or show poor judgment (cough Trump townhall cough) but there's no evidence of them deliberately lying and presenting things they know to be false as fact.