The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Should Courts Appoint Historians as Experts in Second Amendment Cases?
Courts, not “experts,” should say what the law is.
Imagine a world in which judges appoint the nation's most prestigious historians as experts to advise the court on matters of constitutional history. How about appointing the author of a book that the Journal of American History endorsed as "meticulous and thorough," that Garry Wills enthusiastically reviewed for the New York Times, and that received the prestigious Bancroft Prize?
Turns out that Michael A. Bellesiles, author of Arming America, fabricated sources, distorted facts, and committed fraud. The Bancroft Prize was rescinded and Emory University fired him. But some judges, professors, and activists had welcomed his thesis with open arms because he attacked America's "gun culture" and derided the right to bear arms. A Ninth Circuit opinion relied on him in support of its "collective rights" holding about the Second Amendment, but the embarrassing cite was removed after the scandal broke. Until then, Bellesiles would have been the perfect candidate for a court to appoint as an "expert" on history.
In an October 27 order in U.S. v. Bullock (S.D. Miss.), Judge Carlton Reeves expressed dissatisfaction with the Supreme Court's directive in Bruen that courts must review history to decide if Second Amendment restrictions are "consistent with the Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation." He wrote that neither "this Court" nor "the Justices of the Supreme Court, distinguished as they may be," are "trained historians. "And we are not experts in what white, wealthy, and male property owners thought about firearms regulation in 1791."
Judge Reeves quoted Jennifer Tucker, editor of A Right to Bear Arms?, as stating that "the firearms history that appears in law journals and court briefs is not the firearms history familiar to many mainstream historians." That caught my eye, as Tucker then referred to my essay showing how the common law distinguished the peaceable bearing of arms from carrying weapons in a manner to terrorize others. It was based on historical statutes, commentaries, and judicial decisions—the kinds of references that courts and presumably "mainstream historians" would rely on.
Judge Reeves went on to quote Patrick Charles as stating that adherents of the Standard Model of the Second Amendment, who read the right to have arms as an individual right, as "fail[ing] to adhere to even the most basic norms of historical objectivity and methodology." And he quotes Saul Cornell, writing in Slate, accusing the Court in Bruen of having "cherry picked" the historical record. Both Charles and Cornell are partisan historians who oppose Second Amendment rights in their writings and amicus briefs.
"Not wanting to itself cherry pick the history," Judge Reeves concludes, "the Court now asks the parties whether it should appoint a historian to serve as a consulting expert in this matter. … This Court is acquainted with the historical record only as it is filtered through decisions of the Supreme Court and the Courts of Appeals." Those decisions would be a good start, except that he seems to think that the Supreme Court got it wrong.
The United States correctly opposed the appointment of an expert in Bullock, noting: "The prospect of judges in all 94 federal judicial districts retaining a historian would be an expensive proposition and a departure from the typical reliance on the parties to provide support for their legal positions." So did the defendant, explaining: "Under both Bruen and our system of party presentation, the Court's analysis is confined to the historical record before it. A court-appointed expert may not expand that record."
In Baird v. Bonta, Judge Kimberly Mueller of the Eastern District of California ordered on December 8 that the parties show cause "why the court should not appoint its own expert witness to collect and survey evidence of the 'historical tradition that delimits the outer bounds of the right to keep and bear arms.'" Each party could nominate experts and "address the court's tentative observation that an appointed expert could provide a more thorough, rigorous, and balanced perspective than those the parties have offered to date." Good luck with that.
Perhaps Michael Bellesiles, who was last known to be bartending, would make a good choice?
Judge Roger Benitez expressed skepticism about "experts" in a hearing on December 12 in Duncan v. Bonta, the California magazine ban case that Bruen remanded for reconsideration. The historical documents that matter are enacted laws, ordinances, regulations, and the like. He ordered the State to prepare an Excel spreadsheet of the laws they consider to be historical analogues to present-day magazine bans, including dates of enactment and repeal and any judicial decisions on their constitutionality. The plaintiffs could then file a rebuttal.
Contrast that with the deferential approach in Ocean State Tactical v. Rhode Island, decided on December 14 in the District of Rhode Island. That State's magazine ban was upheld in part on the basis of "expert" opinion in support of the government, which the court found more credible than that offered by the plaintiffs. A court should not defer to the State's experts because they supposedly have greater or more prestigious academic credentials. Many academics are partisan supporters of gun restrictions. What should matter is the substance of the facts presented by the parties.
Perhaps we need a reminder from Chief Justice John Marshall in Marbury v. Madison (1803): "It is emphatically the province and duty of the Judicial Department to say what the law is." Judges may not defer to "experts" to advise what the law is. "Do your job," as New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick famously said.
Both Heller and Bruen came to the Supreme Court on decisions granting motions to dismiss. They were decided on the basis of the complaints and the parties' briefs with no factual development. The Supreme Court was urged to decline to rule on the ultimate merits in both cases but rather to send the cases back down to the lower courts for more development—in Heller by the U.S. Solicitor General and in Bruen by the N.Y. Attorney General. But the Court rejected the suggestion in both cases, and instead conducted its own analysis of the relevant historical materials to determine the scope of the Second Amendment.
This was proper because historical information does not consist of the types of facts that are determined in a trial through competing witness and expert testimony. In legal jargon, historical facts are "legislative facts," not "adjudicative facts." As Judge Posner put it in Moore v. Madigan (7th Cir. 2012), striking down Illinois's ban on carrying firearms outside the home, "Only adjudicative facts are determined in trials, and only legislative facts are relevant to the constitutionality of the Illinois gun law." That is going to be true in pretty much every Second Amendment case after Bruen, as the historical inquiry the courts are required to undertake is purely a matter of legislative facts. As Bruen noted, the historical inquiry "that courts must conduct will often involve reasoning by analogy—a commonplace task for any lawyer or judge."
As Bruen explained, courts are "entitled to decide a case based on the historical record compiled by the parties." It is the government's burden to support a gun restriction with history. If it fails to do so, it should lose. The court should not go out of its way to do the government's job. This is especially true because the government has unlimited resources, always more than parties who challenge firearm laws.
If the parties do submit expert reports in Second Amendment cases, judges should treat them for what they essentially are—amicus briefs. And courts should be particularly wary of "experts" whose views have repeatedly been rejected by the Supreme Court. If the expert joined an amicus brief supporting the government in Heller, McDonald, or Bruen, that is a pretty good sign the expert's views are out of step with the Supreme Court.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Define "historian".
Anyone who agrees with the fascists that the second amendment has to go.
You know 2A can be legally repealed.
It's called democracy BTW.
Yes. But you also know that you'll never have the votes to do it, so you instead come up with farcical arguments as to why the 2nd Amendment doesn't mean what it so clearly says.
You're not contradicting Longtobefree. A fascist can be democratically elected. (Hitler was.) A fascist measure can be democratically enacted.
If the fascists get enough votes to get rid of right to free speech or right to bear arms, they'll still be fascists.
And if it's a free, open, fair election, then what's the problem?
I don't recall fascist elections being very free and open.
The problem is it takes more than an election to eliminate one of our enumerated rights. It takes an Amendment to the Constitution.
"A fascist can be democratically elected. (Hitler was.)"
Urban legends never die.
Hitler ran against Hindenburg in the 1932 presidential elections.
Hitler came in second in both rounds of the election,
Hindenburg reluctantly agreed to appoint Hitler as chancellor after two further parliamentary elections—in July and November 1932—had not resulted in the formation of a majority government.
On election day, 6 March 1933, the Nazi Party's share of the vote increased to 43.9 per cent, and the party acquired the largest number of seats in parliament. Hitler's party failed to secure an absolute majority, necessitating another coalition with the DNVP
The Enabling Act, along with the Reichstag Fire Decree, transformed Hitler's government into a de facto legal dictatorship.
The boring details can be found in any biography, and even Wikipedia.
Everything you said is true, however I will point out that parliamentary systems are bizarre to say the least to American eyes. Things like this happen all the time, under less evil circumstances and no one questions the democratic legitimacy.
Hitler was *not* democratically elected. He was simply appointed chancellor by President Hindenburg. This was because the NSDAP had a plurality in the Reichstag (though it never got a majority until after all non-Nazi parties had been banned or dissolved themselves). In fact, in the Reichstag election immediately preceding Hitler's appointment (November 1932), the Nazis actually got fewer votes, and fewer seats in the Reichstag, than they had in the July 1932 election. Hindenburg had tried forming governments made up exclusively of non-Nazi ministers, but none of them had been stable. So he (and von Papen of the Centre Party, who had Hindenburg's ear) decided to try appointing one with Hitler as its head, but packed with non-Nazi right-wing ministers.
Out of a total of 13 cabinet ministers, there were only three Nazis: Hitler himself, Wilhelm Frick (Reich Minister of the Interior), and Hermann Goering (Minister without Portfolio). Unfortunately giving Interior to Frick meant giving the Nazis control of the police, which enabled them to throw KPD and SPD Reichstag members into jail, so that they wouldn't be available to vote for the Enabling Act, which gave Hitler's cabinet the power to rule by decree (but which was adopted without the Reichstag quorum that was required by the constitution.
Thank you! Now can we please get the hoplophobes to go this route instead of trying to twist the meaning of the Constitution and SCOTUS rulings to get take away our rights?
The people don't have the right to armed self defense? Can you mandate we all be pacifist? Or that the rule of the young and strong over the old and weak is the preferred outcome to blocking the right to be armed?
Someone who engages in the discipline of history. Not necessarily an academic or with a PhD, but they will have a similar skill set and use similar methods.
He expressed "dissatisfaction," because blacks never support gun rights, as they know that law abiding whites will use guns to defend themselves against their criminal black "brothers."
Another muted racist.
I'm pretty damn conservative, but I can't stand asshats that look at everything through a racial lense, and that includes the left as well as the right.
Go in good health.
from Mr. Halbrook's post:
I'd say it was Judge Reeves, not elnurmamedrafiev, that brought race into this...
By noting that only white, wealthy, male property owners were involved in the process of the Bill of Rights.
That does not make the first ten amendments "racist".
Also, er, do we need to remind people that gun control was literally (LITERALLY literally) invented to keep free black men disarmed?
Can some of the judicial apologists justify why the Second Circuit keeps staying injunctions against New York’s new unconstitutional gun law?
What is the legal basis, and is this ever done in any other context?
because guns bad, mmkay?
Not content to be smacked twice, they want to be smacked again. 2nd circuit is playing the odds: they are betting, like Heller, it will be a long time before SC takes up 2nd amendment again. SC takes 1 of 7000 petitions, so they may not be wrong.
Right, so basically "precedent" and "norms" are only for the things liberals like, like killing babies and shooting off into another man's rear.
You got it. Now you don't need to go to law school!
Too late. Graduated 17 years ago.
Let’s separate the more general question of reliance on experts from the specific context of the 2nd Amendment.
There are occassional fraud scandals in every field. Scientific papers have been retracted. Claims of medical breakthroughs have proved bogus. Entire criminology labs have relied on what turns out to be junk science. Methods courts relied on have been disproven.
But should we turn around and say that because experts are sometimes not reliable, courts should never rely on them for anything? That would be an extraordinary proposition. Experts are fallible. But no mere human being is infallible. We’re all imperfect. Everything we do is imperfect. Anything compared against perfection can be easily shot down. This is why Aristotle’s maxim that “the perfect is the enemy of the good” is so often true.
As I said in a comment on a different recent post, trying to make a society too perfect (especially without anyone else’s consent) can upend it. But the same principle applies here.
I understand Professor Halbrook’s thesis is that courts should not rely on history in determining what the 2nd Amendment means. But I don’t think the fact that historians, like people in every other field, have sometimes committed fraud is a good argument for this proposition. We could hardly stop relying on doctors or scientists because doctors and scientists have sometimes committed fraud, as some of them have.
Why should historians be any different?
I think the question is not whether the Court should use history or historians, it's whether they should have their own appointed historian.
And I agree with the No answer.
It's up to the parties to invoke whatever "expert(s)" they have, and then it's up to the Court to weigh all the evidence presented.
Which raises a question (IANAL). . .
Can Justices use any source of info they want or are they (constitutionally?) bound to the info presented by the parties?
(Made up) example: One party offers the OED definition of "arms" and the other party offers the Merriam-Webster's definition.
Can a Justice look up the Collin's definition on their own?
Judges are not supposed to import "facts" from outside the trial record (although they can take "judicial notice" of certain such facts -- things that are (in theory at least) easily and objectively verifiable).
There is no such prohibition on importing law. If both parties miss a relevant case or statute, that does not preclude the judge from relying on it.
Where this gets sticky is in distinguishing facts from law. In particular, "facts" that are not specific to the case at hand, but that are relevant more broadly, are often not part of the trial record, yet relied upon by appellate judges.
Under FRE 702, experts' testimony is supposed to be able to assist the trier of fact in understanding the evidence or determining a "fact in issue." I always have understood a "fact in issue" to mean an event about which fact witnesses can testify. Historians testifying about what occurred in the 18th century are not doing that.
Historians testifying about what occurred in the 18th century are not doing that.
The best historians doing the best they can do better than you might suppose. They always do far better than folks uneducated in the methods of history, like Supreme Court justices.
I suspect you're right. I was referring only to the scope of Rule 702.
Yep. However, and the real issue at hand, the judge should not produce their own expert. It’s up to the parties to make their best case using “experts” of their choosing.
FRE 702(a) is broader than that. It reads "the expert’s scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge will help the trier of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue."
But in any event, I was just talking Ape's more general question.
I think the part that you've highlighted refers to the evidence that was submitted during the trial, not the evidence that the historian him/herself is relying upon. Experts can refer to facts or background when they testify as a basis for their opinions, and they can base their opinions on facts that are themselves inadmissible, but those facts do not become admissible evidence just because the expert has relied upon them.
(Made up) example: One party offers the OED definition of “arms” and the other party offers the Merriam-Webster’s definition.
Can a Justice look up the Collin’s definition on their own?
It might once have been reasonable to believe that a dictionary definition was a good faith, expert, effort at describing a word's meaning, as generally understood. Or - in subsidiary listed meanings - as understood in niche contexts.
But we have had plenty of examples recently of dictionaries going woke and adopting fanciful meanings that accord with political preferences rather than actual usage.
So while we might accept the 1949 edition of Collins as a good faith effort at what a word meant in the English of 1949, sadly we can no longer accept the 2022 edition in the same way.
1949 seems a good date to pick, as that was the year that 1984 introduced us to the concept of Newspeak.
US Supreme Court Justices can do whatever they want, including independent fact-finding and even physical experiments. I don't know the score for state high courts.
Lower appellate courts are supposed to accept trial courts' facts and remand (send the case back) if further facts are necessary. They need not accept clearly erroneous facts.
Trial courts only should accept facts when presented, when already adjudicated factual as a matter of law, or if widely-known and uncontroversial (to a sane-person standard, not the "dictionaries are woke mind control" crowd). The last is called "judicial notice."
That’s fine. It’s not like, in insanity or medical malpractice or evidence cases, courts appoint psychiatrists, doctors, or criminologists as special masters to decide the case for them or represent the sole permitted view. They are simply experts who present evidence. The same fact/law distinction would apply here. What the law has historically been is a question of fact, on which experts can have opinions . How the facts get applied and what law should be is a question of law, to be decided by judges.
This wouldn’t seem to be any different.
It’s not like historians are the only field where experts disagree about things. In many cases, it’s been possible for each side to be able to find experts sympathetic to its views. That would seem to be the case here as well.
Has anybody even suggested making historians special masters in these cases?
I think the critical distinction does not appear until almost the end of the article above. The facts on which the historian would be opining are "legislative facts," not "adjudicative facts." As acts of legislature, they are as available to any competent lawyer as to even the best historian. And judges, not historians, are trained in the proper interpretation of legislation. So given those limits, what possible advantage could a historian bring to the case? Yes, there are good and bad experts in every field. And we tolerate the bad (or more precisely, pay the cost of controls to minimize the bad) because they are bringing knowledge to the case that is not available through other means. That's not true in the case of legislative history.
The facts on which the historian would be opining are “legislative facts,” not “adjudicative facts.”
Nope. You would be hard pressed to find any good historian who would opine in court about any question of law. Historical professionals are experts at staying in their lanes. What they would testify to would be about what happened in the past, and what evidence and methods they used to determine that. What the implications of that testimony would be for law they would leave to the lawyers and judges.
Historical professionals are experts at staying in their lanes. ...What the implications of that testimony would be for law they would leave to the lawyers and judges.
So, you are saying that a historian who opines as to the proper interpretation of the second amendment is not staying in his lane?
swood1000 — Yes, I am saying that. And with a top-flight historian, you can count on them to say that.
What you can do is ask such experts what they think happened, and what reasoning and what sources in the historical record led them to their conclusion about what happened. They will not answer your questions about what historical figures would tell you about today's issues. In reply to that question, they will answer, "You can't do that." By which they will not mean it is not permitted to answer. They will mean it is impossible to do.
But you can ask them to evaluate the intentions and expectations of historical figures who acted at the time, if the historian has reason to know them. And you can ask them to explain how they know, or why they answer that such intentions are unknown, obscure, doubtful, or contested.
If you earn their trust by remaining serious and uncynical, you might be able to get some of them to critique from a historical perspective your own reasoning about some present-day controversy. They might at least tell you if you are attempting to draw from the past an impossible conclusion about the present, maybe because you have overlooked some paradoxical implication. Those are commonplace when you try to base a discussion simultaneously in two widely separated time periods, each with its own distinctive cultural context.
Reasoning across that kind of divide is the historical profession's hardest-to-acquire skill. It requires both trained habits of thought, and mastery of a notable quantity of period-specific information—about the equivalent of educating yourself according to the standards and resources available to a well-educated person situated in the place and time under study. Of course non-historians do not even suspect there is a problem there to be mastered.
They will not answer your questions about what historical figures would tell you about today’s issues. …They will mean it is impossible to do.
Is there no set of facts according to which the historical and the modern figure face fundamentally the same issue? Take the man who robs the bank in order to enrich himself. The historical figure drafts a statute declaring this conduct to be a criminal act. In doing so he intends that this will remain a criminal act well into the future, as long as the statute stays on the books. Consequently, we can answer the question about what the historical figure would say about the issue of bank robbery today – it should be a crime.
They might at least tell you if you are attempting to draw from the past an impossible conclusion about the present, maybe because you have overlooked some paradoxical implication.
Are you talking here about modern circumstances unimagined by the historical figure, such that statements made or statutes passed cannot reasonably be applied to the modern circumstances? Can you give an example?
Reasoning across that kind of divide is the historical profession’s hardest-to-acquire skill.
What other purpose is there of studying history? Isn’t it to understand the essence of an historical event and then to explain it to those who do not share the mindset of those inhabiting a different historical period? One cannot even understand an historic event without reasoning across that divide within himself.
The historical figure drafts a statute declaring this conduct to be a criminal act. In doing so he intends that this will remain a criminal act well into the future, as long as the statute stays on the books.
You write, "In doing so he intends . . . " Without full insight into the historical context in which the historical figure acted, your only basis to infer what he intends is, your present understanding about why someone would do that now.
Thus, without even noticing you did it, you smuggled that present-minded contextual notion back into the historical past, and attributed it to someone acting then. But they were acting in a notably different context, one with which you are likely unfamiliar. That ever-present hazard raises a lot of questions about the range of legitimate historical inferences, and which methods best deliver them. Almost everyone not formally trained in history gets tripped up that way; it isn't a disgrace, it's a nearly invisible snare, so it is hard to learn not to do that.
The best corrective, as I noted previously in another comment, is to study extensively from the resources which a well educated person relied on at the place, and during the era in question. While pursuing that study you confine yourself to sources which predate the end of the era in question, and range freely among sources which precede the era. You look to study as broadly as possible, reading a range of sources of every kind, formal and informal.
Your aim is to give yourself what amounts to the education available then, excluding from consideration all extraneous context which became available only later—which after the passage of a century to two rules out a large percentage of today's typical cognitive furniture. Eventually, your historically-minded self will be thinking quite differently than your present-minded self.
After you have studied that way long enough, your cognition begins to recognize and sound alarm bells when something utterly unknown to the historical era gets into the discussion. For instance, if you stumble on some legal interpretation which tacitly assumes efficient communication which was actually unavailable, you will be as surprised as would someone living at the time. A present-minded person in that same instance would not experience that surprise.
For instance—and more to your point—if you were researching early 17th century Massachusetts—to encounter the notion of bank robbery would deliver a surprise. Leaving aside the question whether banks, or bank equivalents even existed, a student of that era would also be wary and curious about scriptural context. Might scripture be taken for law, or influence legal interpretation? How? Might those answers change in some way depending on the religious affiliation, or lack of one, of an alleged perpetrator? If the alleged perpetrator was an Indian, might leniency from a magistrate be required, based on assumptions about inferior moral agency among Indians?
Were any of those questions part of the context intended—or unconsciously relied upon—by the authority which created the law? What would a magistrate at that time typically conclude from his own contextual familiarity with those issues?
As the scope of consideration shifts over decades, and among variously separated locations which diversified culturally, and communicated inefficiently, how much uniformity of contextual interpretation can a modern investigator justify? What custom-made adjustments must be applied, place-by-place, and time-by-time?
Are you talking here about modern circumstances unimagined by the historical figure, such that statements made or statutes passed cannot reasonably be applied to the modern circumstances?
Situations like that are usually less complicated than the derangement of backward-looking context which the previous example illustrated. Mostly, sound historical reasoning denies ability to speculate about what historical figures, "would have," done, or thought, about unfamiliar future contingencies. One usual way to deal with that is to note that if you have said, "would have," you are probably doing it wrong.
What other purpose is there of studying history? Isn’t it to understand the essence of an historical event and then to explain it to those who do not share the mindset of those inhabiting a different historical period?
Simply speaking? Sure, good luck doing it. I thank you for your generous attention. Not many others are trying to follow along.
Without full insight into the historical context in which the historical figure acted, your only basis to infer what he intends is, your present understanding about why someone would do that now.
People can be assumed to intend the natural consequences of their actions. A legislator who votes “aye” on a bill intends to vote in favor of that bill becoming a law, irrespective of whether he believes that the bill will ever become law.
Might scripture be taken for law, or influence legal interpretation?
He is not drafting a scriptural law. He can be assumed to intend that the statute will be interpreted in accordance with the applicable rules of legal interpretation.
Mostly, sound historical reasoning denies ability to speculate about what historical figures, “would have,” done, or thought, about unfamiliar future contingencies.
Of course. But it should not be that difficult to ascertain what the historical figure would have done about familiar contingencies, especially if we have evidence as to how he had previously handled the exact same contingency.
And judges, not historians, are trained in the proper interpretation of legislation. So given those limits, what possible advantage could a historian bring to the case?
Textualism is a mode of legal interpretation that emphasizes how the terms in the statute or Constitution would be understood by people at the time they were ratified, as well as the context in which those terms appear. The concern is not with the intent of the drafters but with the plain, or popular, meaning of the text of the statute or Constitution. It is with this latter that the expertise of a disinterested historian would be useful. Unfortunately, historians sometimes appear not to be disinterested.
swood1000 — While most good historians will attend at least a bit to perceived public meanings, very few will discount to zero, or anywhere near zero, the intent of the drafters. The latter is almost always easier to read in the historical record than the former—even if neither is really easy.
Also, I suspect most historical professionals would be more comfortable separating the historical record of drafters' intent from present-minded misinterpretations of drafters' intent. By contrast, period-specific resources to do that for a textualist public understanding would seldom be available. In that respect, ostensibly originalist textualism might be critiqued as a relatively content-free and un-constraining sort of judicial methodology, notably susceptible to present-minded misinterpretation.
Also, I suspect most historical professionals would be more comfortable separating the historical record of drafters’ intent from present-minded misinterpretations of drafters’ intent.
Of course, as to the drafter’s intent it is hard to argue with Oliver Wendell Holmes’ admonition that:
We know also that the drafter’s intent is open to mischief by those who would enter “understandings” into the legislative history in order to influence how the legislation is interpreted, whereas such an understanding was not in the minds of those voting on the statute and perhaps such an understanding was expressly kept out of the statute because it would have then been rejected. As Scalia put it, "[A]ll we can know is that [the legislature] voted for a text that they presumably thought would be read the same way any reasonable English speaker would read it." Scalia insisted that "it is simply incompatible with democratic government, or indeed, even with fair government, to have the meaning of a law determined by what the lawgiver meant, rather than by what the lawmaker promulgated."
By contrast, period-specific resources to do that for a textualist public understanding would seldom be available.
You seem to be saying that we generally can’t discover the generally-accepted meaning of specific words at a specific historical period. Why would that be? Can’t concordances showing the usages of words at a certain historical period be produced and consulted?
You seem to be saying that we generally can’t discover the generally-accepted meaning of specific words at a specific historical period. Why would that be? Can’t concordances showing the usages of words at a certain historical period be produced and consulted?
I am saying that. I say it because word meanings defined outside the specific contexts within which the words were used cannot be strung together to deliver discernible meaning. Don’t believe me? You can prove it yourself. Take my second sentence above, look up each word definition, then concatenate them. You will get gibberish. You get that same result with any sentence of more than two or three words.
What that shows is that syntax and context deliver most of the meaning conveyed by any text. Syntax standards are somewhat variable by place and time, and even among different classes of users at specific places and times.
Context is utterly protean. That means that knowledge specific to places, times, contexts, and other relevant factors is indispensable for accurate interpretation of texts.
But what about a method such as corpus linguistics? Go back to my comment above, about problems inherent in present-minded analysis of historical texts. Interpretation of corpus linguistics results by present-minded analysts runs into the same problems with deranged context that I mentioned above. The hazard that a present-minded analyst will inadvertently smuggle present-day meaning into a historical text is not lessened at all by taking a bit of text as database sample. That just moves the text even farther from its native context than was the document as a whole.
Historically trained analysts could lessen those difficulties, but the appeal of the corpus linguistics method seems to come largely from its presumed ability to put analytical historical power into untrained hands. It might be that corpus linguistics managed by specialist historians would add useful extra power. Maybe someone could fill me in if they know of an example.
Beyond those problems is the question whether historically contemporary dictionaries can deliver results with the needed granularity with regard to times and places. The answer is self-evidently no. Compared to the various places and times which attract historical interest, there are very few such dictionaries in existence. They were published at places too distant from each other, and at times too widely spaced, to provide adequate coverage for textual interpretive needs as variable as the historical occurrences which gave rise to them.
Also questionable is any assumption that compilers of antique dictionaries enjoy a presumption of accurate interpretation because they were near-contemporaries of the authors whose work they analyze. A modern scholar with better access to a larger collection of those same writings enjoys a comparative advantage.
The best historians tend to be extraordinarily verbally talented. They focus that talent more narrowly and persistently on speciality subject matter, contextual nuance, precise past time frames, and specific places, than does any dictionary compiler. Courts commit malpractice when they reference antique dictionaries to discover word meanings, instead of asking specialty historians who could give them better answers, and add explanatory discussion to clarify fine points.
If he felt the need, a modern scholar would always remain free to read every word in an antique dictionary, and then broaden the scope from there. But come to think of it, I do not think I ever saw a historian reach for an antique dictionary. It always makes me uneasy when I read that courts have done so.
Let's not forget Stevens' assbackwards insistence that qualifiers expand the meaning of words.
Or his pretending that the word "arms" in the second amendment is plausibly both the object of "keep" and at the very same instance half of an idiom.
Or his insistence that the "Amendment’s text does justify a
different limitation: the “right to keep and bear arms”
protects only a right to possess and use firearms in connection with service in a state-organized militia." However, since no early court found for such a narrow interpretation, Stevens had to wave away that evidence.
While Stevens was quite willing to cherry pick from the early state court cases regarding the right to bear arms, he does not accept their teaching, not even those cases which he seems to be mostly in agreement. For instance, Stevens cites Aymette v TN several times, but never tells his readers that the court in Aymette said plainly that, while the right to bear arms could be restricted for public safety, the right to keep arms was an unqualified right of the citizen. That court described "arms" as those used in civilized warfare. There was no restriction (for example, only when in service of the state militia) because that would have demolished the purpose (as the Aymette court saw it) of that provision which was to prepare the citizens "in the best possible manner to repel any encroachments upon their rights by those in authority."
You seem to be saying that we generally can’t discover the generally-accepted meaning of specific words at a specific historical period.
I am saying that.
So you are saying that we can’t discover the generally-accepted meaning of specific words at the current historical period. Dictionaries, which purport to serve this purpose, are a sham. You write the words, “I offer to sell this horse to you for $100.” Of course I can’t know your subjective intent but you are saying that I also can’t know the generally-accepted objective meaning of that series of words. Of course, this is absurd. If it weren’t, no commerce would be possible. It also seems reasonable for me to conclude that if I accept your offer and proffer $100 you will then deliver the horse to me.
Courts commit malpractice when they reference antique dictionaries to discover word meanings, instead of asking specialty historians who could give them better answers, and add explanatory discussion to clarify fine points.
Now you appear to be saying that, with the help of a specialty historian, we can discover the generally accepted meaning of specific words at a specific historical period.
I'm hoping that the Supreme Court keeps the hammer down on the lower courts, but it's going to be tedious work.
I would hope the can streamline the burden by liberal use of GVRs, with one or two sentence pointers on the correct result.
But I doubt the use of historians will avail fractious judges much. Our history is not a mystery, and while historians can make wild claims that guns were not commonly carried, and people never really thought they had a right to carry them, the legal history of actual statutes that were wholesale infringements of the right to bear arms are rare and fleeting until the reconstruction and post civil war era.
This is just a silly post. Per Halbrook, because Bellesiles was a fraud all historians are unreliable, and judges are free to manufacture history, so long as their version pleases Halbrook.
Both Charles and Cornell are partisan historians who oppose Second Amendment rights in their writings and amicus briefs.
Is Halbrook claiming that he is not a partisan?
This whole line of RW "reasoning" - that experts are sometimes wrong or dishonest and therefore all experts should be ignored in favor of what Tucker Carlson says - is truly idiotic.
No one can oppose the individual rights protection in good faith, so anyone doing so is by definition a partisan.
I didn’t see Halbrooks’s Tucker Carlson cite. I’ve missed all of Carlson’s amicus briefs in Bruen, Heller and McDonald too.
The real issue isn’t that “the experts are wrong”, because there are plenty of experts on both sides, including the “RW” side like Halbrook, Koppel, and Volokh.
But the experts that are arguing against the overwhelming consensus of public opinion that the United States has had a long, enduring, and robust right to keep and bear arms have a high burden to surmount to prove their case.
And no one really believes them, not even you.
If you were honest you’d just come out and say you don’t believe there should be a right to concealed or open carry, the right to possess AR-15’s, Glocks with 15 round magazines, etc, and quit claiming that there never was an individual right to keep and bear arms.
kazinki comment - "But the experts that are arguing against the overwhelming consensus of public opinion that the United States has had a long, enduring, and robust right to keep and bear arms have a high burden to surmount to prove their case."
Jimc5499 comment - "I’m listening to the instructor state what happened. I raise my hand and said “It didn’t happen like that.” He asked how I knew that and I said “I was there.”"
both good points - historians are prime examples of bias.
recently read several biographies on Eisenhower and Patton. The Eisenhower biographies said Eisenhower was a genius and patton was an idiot. The Patton biographies said patton was genius and Eisenhower was an idiot.
Stevens dissent in Heller tortured the language in the historical writings to support his dissent and pretended that historical writings that supported the individual right didnt exist. Lathrop repeats the manta that historical interpretation should be based on professional historians, yet makes the same leaps as Stevens does in his heller dissent.
Jimc5499 comment – “I’m listening to the instructor state what happened. I raise my hand and said “It didn’t happen like that.” He asked how I knew that and I said “I was there.””
Possibly, on some point of personal observation, Jimc5499 is equipped by experience to contribute notably to the history of the event he participated in. Even his low rank and after-the-fact participation in related activities should not rule that out. But before concluding his contradiction of his instructor amounts to an accurate historical corrective, we need a lot more information. Usually, historians working after the fact get access to far more information than even high-ranking participants had available at the time.
JMC - is simply pointing out that the professor - who got his version of history from a "professional historian" got the facts wrong.
"But the experts that are arguing against the overwhelming consensus of public opinion that the United States has had a long, enduring, and robust right to keep and bear arms have a high burden to surmount to prove their case."
Arguing against their own former consensus of a generation or two earlier. The closer you get to the founding era, the less you find anyone arguing for the historians' preferred view of the 2nd amendment. Once you get to the point where history was being written by people who actually KNEW the founders? Well, you get Joseph Story.
Basically, as historians became more of an ideological monoculture, they became more vulnerable to ideologically attractive fads, because they got ever less push back.
But they can't win, because too many primary sources survive that contradict the fads.
That notion—that the closer you get to the time in question the more accurate the historical writing is—became a generally recognized error in historical reasoning before the end of the 19th century.
Think about it, Bellmore. History written prior to now is available to present-day historians. They can cross-check what, for instance, Jospeh Story, wrote, with vast troves of other historical records with which Story was unacquainted—in many cases because those records were unknown to anyone until after Story died.
Perhaps you like some opinion Story had to offer. Have at it. What Story might have to say about history which mostly predated his adulthood is interesting history in itself, in a meta sort of way, but in no way to be compared for content accuracy with today's better-informed historical analysis. That trend will continue, by the way. Historians 50 years from now will be better equipped to understand founding era history than are historians working today.
Treasure troves of other historical records, like Belesilles' probate records?
Bellmore — Given what you know now, would you be misled by Belesilles' probate records? Neither would any historian.
That kind of corrective provides a notable part of the accuracy advantage that a present-day historian enjoys compared to a former-day historian, or any other kind of former-day commenter. The historical record improves continuously because scholars who care about accuracy study it, continuously apply correctives for errors they can prove, and publish collegially.
It is a disadvantage of Joseph Story's commentary that it has missed out on nearly two centuries of corrective effort, because he has been dead. Joseph Story Fans are not advantaged by his deadness. Compared to reliance on a continuously updated historical record, JSFs are destined to become ever-more out of touch and thwarted if they continue misplaced reliance on a dead guy.
The real issue isn’t that “the experts are wrong”, because there are plenty of experts on both sides, including the “RW” side like Halbrook, Koppel, and Volokh.
But those are not historical experts. Among historical experts of stature, you will be hard pressed to find any whose scholarship is notably "RW," or "LW."
"Both sides," is not really much of a thing in history. Where it shows up, it is taken to discredit the work of historians who entertain it. They are expected to know enough about historical methods to understand that present-minded political polarities lay in the unknowable future of the subjects they study, and thus were utterly without historical influence.
For instance, the great British historian Eric Hobsbawm remained a Stalinist all his life, until long after Stalin's death. His politics influenced the subjects he chose to study. No one has shown notable ideological bias in his treatment of those subjects. His work continues to get the highest praise from other historians, including conservatives. Hobsbawm's approach to history was energetically quantitative, and he mostly let the numbers, charts, and tables speak for themselves. It is pretty dry stuff at times, and the greatest risk to a non-historical reader is ennui.
Evidence of 'Liberal Academe'
"Economists are the most mixed group, with a ratio of 4.5 Democrats for every Republican. Historians as a group are the most lopsided, at 33.5 to one; the paper attributes this to the rise of specializations such as gender, culture, race and the environment. (Some classify history as one of the humanities disciplines.) Lawyers are 8.6 to one and psychologists are 17.4 to one, while communications scholars, including journalism professors, are 20 to one."
That's why academics had to be dragged kicking and screaming into admitting that Belesilles was a fraud. And why he got the Bancroft prize AFTER questions were raised about his work.
I'll grant you that they might have been kicking and screaming, but they did admit it. OTOH, the field wasn't as politically biased then as now, it's possible a new Belesilles would easily weather the storm.
Bellmore, have you considered what would happen to Thomas or Alito if they were members of the history profession? Their abuse of historical evidence in Bruen and Dobbs is every bit as bad as what Bellesiles got drummed out of the profession for.
Likewise - Stevens abuse of history in his Heller dissent far surpassed Alito's in Dobb's or Thomas's in Bruen
Though was it really an abuse of history in Dobbs when he simply returned abortion to the states where it belonged?
Joe_dallas — This is like the fourth time I have challenged you to back up your charge that Stevens abused History in his Heller dissent. So far, bupkis. Show specific text from Stevens, and explain why it is abuse, or please just shut up.
Here are a few paragraphs from Steven's Heller dissent:
1. "Specifically, there is no indication that the Framers of the Amendment intended to enshrine the common-law right of self-defense in the Constitution."
2. "The preamble thus both sets forth the object of the Amendment and informs the meaning of the remainder of its text. Such text should not be treated as mere surplusage, for "[i]t cannot be presumed that any clause in the constitution is intended to be without effect."
3. "In the First Amendment, no words define the class of individuals entitled to speak, to publish, or to worship; in that Amendment it is only the right peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances, that is described as a right of "the people." These rights contemplate collective action....Although the abstract definition of the phrase "the people" could carry the same meaning in the Second Amendment as in the Fourth Amendment, the preamble of the Second Amendment suggests that the uses of the phrase in the First and Second Amendments are the same in referring to a collective activity.
1. In the first excerpt, Stevens totally shoots his credibility in the foot. What else can "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be be infringed" mean other than that the "Framers of the Amendment intended to enshrine the common-law right of self-defense in the Constitution."
2. Stevens is right the prefatory clause is not just surplusage, but if you adopted his meaning it would be completely redundant. Article 1 section 10 already gives Congress power to arm and regulate the militia: "To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress". There is nothing the prefatory clause adds to that power, it's purpose is only to assert a federal justification to ensure the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, that it isn't a purely local concern to be left to the states.
3. Here Steven's mendacity dangerously jumps the shark. He claims the right of the people is a collective right, applying the same sort of regulation Stevens countances for the second amendment would make the right to peaceably assemble no more than a right to attend government sponsored and organized rallies. The CCP would be proud of him.
Kazinski — With regard to 1. above, your argument is circular. You rely on the (contested) meaning of the text itself to prove the meaning of the text. That is an empty argument.
The historical record is replete with references to a militia purpose for the 2A. There are zero references to any other purpose from any founder, nor even from any anti-Federalist. Nothing from Tench Cox, or Joseph Story, or Patrick Henry says, "When that amendment was ratified, we did it to protect a personal right to arms for self-defense."
Those politically various figure did mention approvingly other aspects of an armed society. None of what they said was in conflict with a 2A designed to safeguard a militia right. The fact that they approved generally an armed society tells us nothing at all about whether the 2A decreed a purpose to do more than the words and commentary associated with it says it did.
Confusion arises because pro-gun advocates abuse principles of historical analysis in ways which Stevens refused to do. Stevens did not argue that there was no common law right of self defense. He said the opposite. He did not argue that a right of armed self-defense went unprotected. He left undisturbed the self-evident fact that some states explicitly did protect that right in their state constitutions.
Steven merely followed faithfully a historical record which declared unambiguously that the 2A was a guardian of a militia power against any future federal attempt to abolish it. And in insisting on that, Stevens did acknowledge what you say he did not, when you write, "There is nothing the prefatory clause adds to that power . . ." What the prefatory clause adds is assurance that the militia powers of Congress as set forth elsewhere in the Constitution do not include a discretionary power of abolition, or even of malign neglect. That was a key point of reassurance for the Southern slave-owning states, which had led the way to include militia clauses in their own constitutions, for self-evident reasons.
Have you noticed that the militia-clause constitutions in the South do not include the explicit guarantees to arms for personal use featured in the Pennsylvania constitution and some others? There can be no doubt that the founders noticed that diversity, and took guidance from it. A logical inference is that differing state constitutions intended different governance regimes for personal arms. Thus, to decree but a single standard in a federal constitution would have upset a status quo in a way to put the North and the South in conflict. The intent of the 2A was to reassure restive southerners, not to provoke them. (Southerners restive about threats to slavery, but also some northerners restive about a too-powerful federal government, which both groups might have seen as two sides of the same coin).
I am sorry for you that principles of historical reasoning do not work the way you want them to, where every mention of a subject anywhere, at any time, by anyone, may be taken as evidence that the subject must be understood as you prefer it right now. But historical analysis does not work that way. It has rules to guide inclusion of relevant evidence, and rules to exclude irrelevancies.
It is staggeringly clear that a great deal of writing about arms was recorded during the 18th century, and before, and afterward, all over the world. Comparatively speaking, almost none of that writing had anything to do with the American 2A. Thus, attempts to understand the meaning of the 2A must perforce use standards to exclude most of that irrelevant writing from consideration, or no meaning at all would be discernible.
I do not want to add further to this already-long comment with discussion about bogus distinctions between personal and collective rights. I note in passing that the 2A was ratified to be part of a document which in its first three words announced a collective right of the people to decree everything in it. Given that, flailing arguments to knock that notion of collectivity out of American constitutionalism cannot be taken as forthright.
Does the word, "people," when used in reference to individual rights convey a singular meaning? At least partially it must. Can that be its sole meaning? Nonsense, it is a plural word. The collective power of governance which flows from the notion of joint popular sovereignty is a plural power.
Thus, a collective power to decree an individual right demands some tolerance for paradox. Because you cannot understand American constitutionalism without that paradox, you had better get used to living with it.
lathrop comment - "I am sorry for you that principles of historical reasoning do not work the way you want them to, where every mention of a subject anywhere, at any time, by anyone, may be taken as evidence that the subject must be understood as you prefer it right now. But historical analysis does not work that way. It has rules to guide inclusion of relevant evidence, and rules to exclude irrelevancies."
True - include relevant evidence and exclude irrelevant evidence.
Stevens omits - intentionally any historical evidence to the right to keep arms for self defence
Stevens includes and overemphasizes irrelevant statements that regarding militias which dont address the relevant passage in 2a "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Stephen Lathrop 16 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Joe_dallas — This is like the fourth time I have challenged you to back up your charge that Stevens abused History in his Heller dissent.
Lathrop -
This is like the 20th time I have suggested you read Stevens dissent - Read it objectively and honestly. He repetitively tortures the meaning of the historical record.
Please read it objectively and honestly.
Read it, for the third time. Didn't find what you say is there. Asked you to supply text and critique to make your charges substantive. Got nothing. At this point, until you get specific, you are full of beans.
Passages from Stevens Heller dissent
1) "Specifically, there is no indication that the Framers of the Amendment intended to enshrine the common-law right of self-defense in the Constitution."
Really -- no history of the individual right?
2) "The centerpiece of the Court’s textual argument is its insistence that the words “the people” as used in the Second Amendment must have the same meaning, and protect the same class of individuals, as when they are used in the First and Fourth Amendments. According to the Court, in all three provisions—as well as the Constitution’s preamble, section 2 of Article I, and the Tenth Amendment—“the term unambiguously refers to all members of the political community, not an unspecified subset.” "
WTF - complete distortion of the meaning of people in 1a, 4a
Same problem with Stevens distortion of "people" in the next paragraph of his dissent
Passages for Stevens dissent
" Although the Court’s discussion of these words treats them as two “phrases”—as if they read “to keep” and “to bear”—they describe a unitary right: to possess arms if needed for military purposes and to use them in conjunction with military activities."
what in the language of 2a does it say that?
"This reading is confirmed by the fact that the clause protects only one right, rather than two. It does not describe a right “to keep arms” and a separate right “to bear arms.” Rather, the single right that it does describe is both a duty and a right to have arms available and ready for military service, and to use them for military purposes when necessary.[Footnote 13] "
The people have a duty? A requirement ? - Seriously why would a duty / requirement be in a bill of rights?
footnote 5 & 6 - State preambles - all of which describe militia's which he relies on - all omit language similar to " the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
footnote 13
"But this only proves the point: In contrast to the language quoted by the Court, the Second Amendment does not protect a “right to keep and to bear arms,” but rather a “right to keep and bear arms.” The state constitutions cited by the Court are distinguishable on the same ground."
Stevens is diagraming a sentence based on 20th century english composition instead of 18th century english composition
"Bellmore, have you considered what would happen to Thomas or Alito if they were members of the history profession?"
They'd be denied tenure?
That's the point, they wouldn't be members of the history profession, because the history profession is now very close to an ideological monoculture.
They wouldn’t be members because they’re not that smart, kind of lazy, and simply
couldn’t do the work. Judging is much easier. Particularly appellate judging. No archival research or language requirements. Don’t have to master decades of historiography in a topic. No teaching load. No service requirements. No administration or advising. And it’s not like they’re doing their own writing. The have clerks taking stuff from briefs.
Has it ever occurred to you that they’re liberally biased precisely because the conservative view of history is often wrong? And that they got that way from extensive study that their conservative critics have neither done nor are capable of doing?
No, it hasn't, because the profession went from balanced to a total wipeout in the space of one professional career, and there's no way in hell that happened naturally.
Why does it need to be balanced? Shouldn’t it be accurate? Maybe the problem is conservatives simply couldn’t keep up with the requirements and that saying the same shit about how the founders were geniuses and slavery didn’t cause the civil war wasn’t going to cut it anymore in a profession that was more interested in the truth.
Heck, everyone knows Democrats started the civil war. You don't need a professional historian to tell you that.
Historians as a group are the most lopsided, at 33.5 to one
This should be relevant only to the extent that historians consciously or unconsciously slant their findings in accordance with their partisan leanings – in other words, to the extent that they are dishonest or incompetent. Do you think that historians have always been doing this, or is it a new phenomenon?
In general, the whole straw-man argument approach is just a really weak way to argue. The fact people buy it so often is an indicator of how bad we are at logic.
A few years ago I took a class in college. The class was "Recent US History". It started from the end of WWII until the Present. We had a discussion on the Marine Barracks bombing in Lebanon in 1983. I'm listening to the instructor state what happened. I raise my hand and said "It didn't happen like that." He asked how I knew that and I said "I was there."
I was in Turkey waiting to join up with the ship I was assigned to. It got held up because of Grenada. When the bombing happened several of us were flown to Lebanon to help out. I got there about 24 hours after the bombing and rode in the helicopters medevacing the injured to the John F. Kennedy.
Historians have an agenda, just like most scientists. In this case the guy figured that he'd make money from the anti-gun crowd and still push his agenda.
What did the teacher say that was wrong?
I'm wondering that too, Captain, and also how teaching something about this particular bombing is going to pander to an anti-gun crowd.
My statement is that historians are not always accurate, sometimes they have a bias.
Both your points are self-evidently true. But your task is to show how your instructor was wrong, and what you know from first-hand experience which proved him wrong. You have yet to tell us even what the instructor asserted, let alone anything to show you knew better.
Jim, all due respect (and I mean that), but being involved in a traumatic event does not make one an unimpeachable authority on the overall event. One reason initial event reports are notoriously unreliable, is information from those involved is limited to only that tiny part each witnessed, and that is subject to multiple factors of confusion and misinterpretation. Only later when event information is validated, correlated and viewed in context of related information, can an accurate overall view start to come together.
And when an account is from someone demonstrating a strong bias, information from that person is valued only as far as validates or can be validated by other information. From available information, I don’t know whether your instructor was biased or not. But in your closing sentence, you tell me you are.
The specific area where the instructor was wrong was an area where I had a ring side seat as things unfolded. It had to do with the different factions in Lebanon shooting at our aircraft. When they missed, they created civilian casualties. The book used in the class stated that our helicopters returning fire was the cause of the casualties. Our aircraft were unarmed. We were not even allowed to carry personal weapons for protection in the event we were shot down. Several times I was in aircraft that took fire. The book took an anti-US military position concerning the event.
jimc5499 — With that you have at least opened a possibility of research and dialogue. Your account of personal experience is by no means sufficient yet to justify your conclusion. It was a multi-day event, with many other people doing things to which you were not a witness. You could be right. You could be wrong. You have not shown how the instructor was wrong, except with regard to personal experience you had, which is not sufficient to show that events he asserted did not happen.
It shouldn't matter what historians 'think'.
It should only matter what the US Constitution says.
(roll me another, will you?)
Well that's the Goresuch and Kavenaugh approach, if the text is clear then you're done, no need to divine original intent or look at the history.
Its funny conservatives howled and liberals were quite happy with Goresuch when he went uber-textual in Bostock, but liberals are pretty upset when conservatives insist the constitution really doesn't allow the right to keep and bear arms to be infringed.
Conservatives howled at Bostock because there is textual and then there is autistic hypertextual and Bostock is more the latter. Using his logic I don't see how keeping men out of women's sports or locker rooms or showers isn't sex discrimination. To be a bit facetious you could textually define "arms" as the dangly bits connected to a person's shoulders if you were set on banning guns.
Moved.
Another great "heads I win, tails you lose" argument from Halbrook, who is proving to be a particularly egregious 2nd amendment absolutist. First demand that history is the only judge of what is right, and then state that the nation's most eminent historians are Clarence Thomas and a cabal of law professors.
I will concede the policy issue on gun control might be a coin flip.
But the constitutional issue is clear and it's been decided, and it's no longer up for debate. So I don't think it serves any purpose trying to be even handed.
Not up for debate? Look around.
Like Roe v. Wade, settled law is settled until it isn't.
"No longer up for debate"
Dredd Scott would like a word.
It took a war to overturn Dred Scott.
Almost 60 years to overturn Plessy.
49 years to reverse Roe.
But there is one clear difference between Heller/McDonald/Bruen and those cases: there is a clear constitutional amendment that supports gun rights, and a long tradition of "the people" acknowledging those gun rights.
Judges are not historians, nor are they scientists, etc.
It is not only reasonable for judges to receive inputs from those who are domain-specific experts, it is wrong for them not to do so.
But it is not up to the experts to decide the law. Though it is not always up to judges to be finders of fact, either, though many seem to think so.
"Judge Carlton Reeves expressed dissatisfaction with the Supreme Court's directive in Bruen.........'And we are not experts in what white, wealthy, and male property owners thought about firearms regulation in 1791.'"
_____
Just reading that sentence made me an expert in what Judge Carlton Reeves thinks about firearms regulations in 2022. His bias shines through pretty brightly as a matter of fact. I wonder which offends him the most? That they were wealthy? Or was it because they were property owners? I suspect it was because they were white and owned guns. How dare they?!! I wonder if he shows the same amount of disdain for poor black property owners, who just also happened to own firearms.
I'm assuming this judge owns no firearms and has made a commitment to never call upon police who might be armed to come to his residence should he or his family be a victim of a home invasion.
It's obvious Judge Reeves thinks he knows better than anyone else which experts should be consulted when it comes to whether people should be able to own firearms.
No, it's that blacks are incapable of seeing anything in a light that doesn't portray them as victims.
Good sign that Judge Carlton Reeves lacks the judicial temperment to be a judge - but that is the criteria that the Biden adminstration is seeking.
He was appointed by Obama.
biden
According to Wikipedia, you're both right - sort of. He was appointed as a judge in 2010 by Obama. He was appointed Chair of the Sentencing Commission last August by Biden. Given the context of the article above, I'd say his appointment as a judge is the more relevant here.
For me it's the "in 1791" that ought to render their opinions irrelevant, not any of the rest. I don't believe people who were alive in 1952 should have any say in what happens in 2022, let alone people who were alive in 1752.
You're an idiot.
Then change the Constitution.
I don’t believe people who were alive in 1952 should have any say in what happens in 2022
So, you're opposed to all constitutions and statutes, since these were written at some earlier point in time by people you didn't vote for, right? How are you going to govern?
I don’t believe people who were alive in 1952 should have any say in what happens in 2022
Hold on their Sonny. I remember 1952 pretty clearly.
...neither did Thomas Jefferson, but he was pretty quirky.
"I wonder if he shows the same amount of disdain for" poor blacks employed on casino night shifts that require them to board city buses at 5:35am in Biloxi?
Or poor Hispanics living on disputed gang turf in Chicago?
They too own firearms. Some for lawful purposes, some not.
If the job is to find out how many people carried openly in the 1870s, you might want a historian. If the job is to find out how many cities prohibited open carry of handguns in the 1870s, you want a paralegal who knows where the historic records are kept. Or a dozen, or a hundred. Have the gun nuts and the gun grabbers publish competing reviews of old ordinances so the judge has options to uphold or strike down new ones.
The Supreme Court has given us a poor standard. The court didn't have the will to declare the Second Amendment to be as good as the first. Courts are accustomed to judging compelling interests and time place and manner restrictions.
I think that is the thing. The Supreme Court is asking for the latter, while the historians try to provide the former. Bellesiles (In)famously based his conclusions on a selective search of estate records, showing a much lower ownership of guns in the past than many believed was true. One thing he ignored was that many firearms didn’t go through probate (or the equivalent). If a family member got the house, the gun above the fireplace went with the house. That sort of thing.
No surprise, this intentional misunderstanding of what the Supreme Court is requiring, is being used by gun grabbers to try to get around the strict scrutiny required by the triumvirate of Heller, McDonald, and Bruen. But it really isn’t that hard. Because of strict scrutiny, the burden is on the state to show that its restrictions are justified by the legal history, and in particular, legislative history, of the late 18th Century, and then to a lesser extent up through the first 2/3 of the 19th Century. Thus, a historian has no place here. The gun restricting laws and ordinances either did exist, or they didn’t. These are facts that courts can take judicial notice of. Nothing really that subjective.
"Bellesiles (In)famously based his conclusions on a selective search of estate records, showing a much lower ownership of guns in the past than many believed was true."
It has to be remembered that this wasn't remotely the only problem with his research. Rather, it was the only problem Emory was willing to address. (Because they could claim to have some excuse for not having caught it earlier?)
Here's what Clayton Cramer, who more than anyone can claim to have taken Belesilles' scalp, had to say.
"When the book length version of Bellesiles’s claims, Arming America, appeared in 2000, I received a review copy. My first reaction after reading the first few chapters was a mixture of “There’s a logical flaw here” and “What? Could this possibly be true?” When I reached chapters that covered periods that I knew well—the early Republic—my incredulity increased. Then I started to find Bellesiles using quotations from travel accounts that I had read—and the quotations didn’t match either my memory of them, or the texts, when I re-read them.
I sat down with a list of bizarre, amazing claims that Bellesiles had made, and started chasing down the citations at Sonoma State University’s library. I found quotations of out of context that completely reversed the author’s original intent. I found dates changed. I found the text of statutes changed—and the changes completely reversed the meaning of the law. It took me twelve hours of hunting before I found a citation that was completely correct. In the intervening two years, I have spent thousands of hours chasing down Bellesiles’s citations, and I have found many hundreds of shockingly gross falsifications."
The probate record problems, (Including claiming to have consulted records that had been destroyed before he claimed to have looked at them, only were found AFTER the manipulated quotes caused his work to be looked at in detail.
If some court or other doesn't appoint historian(s), or at least seek and objectively evaluate such input, then such court must become some type of makeshift historian(s) itself.
Either way, by the court's own prior reasoning, history must be applied. If the court uses its own historical expertise, it does make things easier for them to reach their preferred outcome. They've already substituted their own historical, medical and scientific expertise, and will continue to do so. Lower courts should probably do the same, if they have a decent basis to guess what the nine experts on the supreme court would say.
No - see my previous post. What the Supreme Court requires here are statutes and ordinances (and state Constitutional provisions - but EV took care of that in Heller) that courts can take judicial notice of. There is no room for historical considerations, outside of the statures enacted and abolished.
Legal history and legislative history are still history, even if confined to limited periods of the past. But where has scotus limited the types of history that should ever be considered to just those two?
They seem to be trying to do that in Bruen and Dobbs But not explicitly.
The last paragraph is the tell.
"If the parties do submit expert reports in Second Amendment cases, judges should treat them for what they essentially are—amicus briefs...TRUE"
And courts should be particularly wary of "experts" whose views have repeatedly been rejected by the Supreme Court." FALSE" This is called the fallacy of authority.
What is being suggested by Halbrook is that only historians who agree with the Supreme Court decision are acceptable. Those who disagree are partisans. And further, limit the use of "legislative facts" to those presented by the plaintiff and defense.
Bruen insisted on the use of historical legislative facts and information for the purpose of adjudicating cases. The answer according to Halbrook are amicus briefs full of motivated reasoning and those that disagree with Supreme court precedent are disallowed.
re: "This is called the fallacy of authority."
No, it's not. For interpretations of law, the Supreme Court is our ultimate source of truth. That's not an appeal to authority, that's how the system is defined to work. What Halbrook is saying is that anyone (historians included) whose work has been rejected or falsified by the ultimate source of truth should be severely down-weighted in the other things they claim (and flatly ignored when they claim things that have been explicitly rejected).
Consider a slightly more extreme example. If I try to argue that Dewey beat Truman in the 1948 presidential election and present the famous newspaper headline as my evidence, why (after confirming that I'm dead wrong) would you ever trust me to provide evidence on any related topic?
For interpretations of law, the Supreme Court is our ultimate source of truth.
Sure. But not for interpretation of history. Unfortunately for would-be originalists, the Supreme Court sometimes holds itself out as an arbiter of, "history and tradition." That opens the door to suggest that if they want to take that on, they better do it according to standards more rigorous than what best serves the majority's preferred outcome.
So all those arguments about how, historically, the Constitution doesn't support a right to abortion should have been "severely down-weighted", since the SCOTUS had explicitly rejected that argument decades prior?
Until then, Bellesiles would have been the perfect candidate for a court to appoint as an “expert” on history.
Even before Bellesiles disgraced himself, that would never have been true. At a second-tier university, he was not even a full professor. Nothing in his prior scholarly record qualified him as a heavy-weight expert on the founding era.
Bellesiles was an aspiring junior scholar who went badly wrong, not a senior expert with an established reputation in the field. That is not the person to choose as an expert on history to write a brief to the Supreme Court.
At the very least, you choose someone with an endowed chair at a top-tier university, with a long history of publication and teaching, directly involving the places and period in question. Notably, you avoid anyone whose scholarship shows previous inclination to try to use history to make some point about any modern controversy under consideration. Among historians, that is a red flag for bad, present-minded history, and poor scholarship.
Pro-gun advocates make their strongest points against historical experts when they point out that some established historians carelessly endorsed Bellesiles’ work, apparently because it accorded with political views they favored. That is a point fairly made. But it overlooks the question of what specific expertise those endorsers had, and bypasses the question whether a properly-qualified period expert might know enough to justifiably suspect Bellesiles’ theme was supportable on the basis of the historical record.
Gun advocates mistakenly suppose that Bellesiles’ misuse of sources, and subsequent disgrace disproved his thesis. It did not. It left his thesis unsupported, not refuted.
At least one of Bellesiles’endorsers, Edmund Morgan, was the world’s preeminent expert on the early part of the period, and at least on the New England part of the record in question. I do not know what Morgan’s politics were, if he had any. No one will ever succeed in showing from Morgan’s scholarship anything like conventional political bias. Yet Morgan was briefly an endorser of Bellesiles. What that tells you is that the historian best qualified to evaluate the central idea Bellesiles presented did not think a historical record which no one knew better than Morgan did was likely to contradict Bellesiles.
Stephen, you should really find out about who the courts grant "expert" status to if you think those kinds of credentials are what matter. Look into bite marks for example.
"Bellesiles was an aspiring junior scholar who went badly wrong, not a senior expert with an established reputation in the field. "
It is when you are scraping the bottom of the barrel, trying to find someone, anyone, to support your flawed argument.
The historical documents that matter are enacted laws, ordinances, regulations, and the like.
That is outright prejudice against academic history, and in favor of legal history, where legal history is at its weakest. It purports to exclude from a review of history and tradition what people actually did, in favor of what legal texts said they should do—without even the context to know whether the specific legal texts in question could legitimately be read that way.
The litigants are free to proffer their own experts.
What it appears here is that the judge is trying to get them all to agree on a common court appointed expert to talk for/to all of them as to what the history actually is, ostensibly unbiased and the final say.
Mr. Halbrook pointedly omits any mention of Fed.R.Evid. 702, which authorizes expert testimony, in the form of an opinion or otherwise if:
(a) the expert’s scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge will help the trier of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue;
(b) the testimony is based on sufficient facts or data;
(c) the testimony is the product of reliable principles and methods; and
(d) the expert has reliably applied the principles and methods to the facts of the case.
The litigants are free to proffer expert testimony as to the relevant history, and Rule 706 authorizes the trial court to appoint an expert sua sponte. Clearly the trial court is in the best position to determine whether expert testimony will or will not help him to understand the relevant historical evidence. Judge Reeves and Judge Mueller are to be commended for candor.
The pejorative comparison to amicus briefs is inapposite here. Litigants don't call amici to testify, and an amicus brief is not subject to cross-examination.
How is a court-appointed expert different from review historical legal scholarship? IIRC, courts, including SCOTUS, have done that on many occasions. So if Professor X publishes his historical views in some journal, that's authoritative, but if he is an appointed expert, subject to cross-examination, he is not? Sounds off to me.
His argument seems to discount judicial precedent and stare decisis, or am I missing something?
But the experts that are arguing against the overwhelming consensus of public opinion that the United States has had a long, enduring, and robust right to keep and bear arms have a high burden to surmount to prove their case.
And this is what directs the decision, not history.
A present popular consensus, which has resulted in 5-6 votes in favor of the 2nd Amendment on the Supreme Court, is the only thing which protects the 2nd.
The only thing. It's not much controlled by historical analysis. It's controlled by contemporary ideology.
We've come to where we are because enough people are willing to put this ideology as their primary factor in determining who to vote for. Probably 3-5 % of the nation votes this way. That's enough.
Shame on Judge Reeves for his racist comment.
“Courts, not “experts,” should say what the law is.”
This is circular reasoning. Judges say it’s their job to determine what the law is. But then they say the law must be based on history. So really they’re claiming the ability to say what history is and what the law is. The same is true in other areas like psychology, public health, environment science, etc. They claim it’s about the law, but then making sweeping and unsupported claims about the world based on vibes. It’s fake humility.
Contrary to the beliefs of law professors and judges (particularly conservatives), a three year degree in reading is excerpts of cases in casebooks does not make them experts in anything other than reading excerpts of cases from casebooks.
So really they’re claiming the ability to say what history is and what the law is.
This varies right vs left.
Right, these days, makes their decision and then justifies it based on their interpretation of history.
Left, in prior times, makes their decision and then justifies it by their interpretation of what the constitution requires in contemporary times, with little or no concern for history.
Anti-gun judges won't get anywhere using experts, The only true relevant history is the plain text found in law which is public record. After which history and tradition is applied. It's truly doubtful historian is going to find hidden laws that were never in the public record.
What I'm seeing is they're really hanging their hat on creative definitions of common use, trying to change common use for lawful purposes to come and use for self-defense.
Even for that they're incredibly constrained, saying you're not using it for defense unless actually fired in defense scenarios. Which is silly since Criminals are charged with using a gun in a robbery if it's never fired or even displayed.
It's hard to argue a woman keeping a pistol in her purse to defend against a violent ex-boyfriend is NOT using it for self-defense, even if she never has to pull it to fire. Same with the grandmother who keeps a pistol in her nightstand, same with a person with the AR 15 in the gun safe.
They try to also say a high-capacity magazine is not commonly used for self-defense. If you have a high capacity magazine in a pistol That's kept expressly ready for the purposes of self-defense, it's being used for self-defense, regardless if you fire zero rounds or 15 rounds.
Joe 412 comment - "Anti-gun judges won’t get anywhere using experts, The only true relevant history is the plain text found in law which is public record. After which history and tradition is applied. It’s truly doubtful historian is going to find hidden laws that were never in the public record."
following up on your point - The text is the obvious starting point. Granted the 2A various versions morphed into the final version. the first versions protected two rights, the right to form militias for the common defence and the individual right to keep and bear arms. Both those rights contain lots of historical writings discussing both rights, albeit with a greater emphasis on the right to form militias for the common defence.
What is absent in the text of 2A and absent in the historical record is any language limiting the right to only when serving in the militia and any historical record of limiting the right to only when serving in the militia. It is implausable that limits on the right were discussed , but no record of such is available and no record of any objections to a limit.
Anti-gun judges won't get anywhere using experts, The only true relevant history is the plain text found in law which is public record. After which history and tradition is applied. It's truly doubtful historian is going to find hidden laws that were never in the public record.
What I'm seeing is they're really hanging their hat on creative definitions of common use, trying to change common use for lawful purposes to common use for self-defense.
Even for that they're incredibly constrained, saying you're not using it for defense unless actually fired in defense scenarios. Which is silly since Criminals are charged with using a gun in a robbery if it's never fired or even displayed.
It's hard to argue a woman keeping a pistol in her purse to defend against a violent ex-boyfriend is NOT using it for self-defense, even if she never has to pull it to fire. Same with the grandmother who keeps a pistol in her nightstand, same with a person with the AR 15 in the gun safe.
They try to also say a high-capacity magazine is not commonly used for self-defense. If you have a high capacity magazine in a pistol That's kept expressly ready for the purposes of self-defense, it's being used for self-defense, regardless if you fire zero rounds or 15 rounds.
A court should not defer to the State’s experts because they supposedly have greater or more prestigious academic credentials.
On that Halbrook is of course at least correct in principle. Prestigious historical credentials could be unearned or overstated. So if competing parties offer experts, courts would be wise to test their comparative historical expertise by cross-examination.
Let each side examine the other’s expert. Examine Halbrook, for instance, on questions of historical method, valid historical techniques, discredited historical approaches and why they have proved unreliable, stuff like that. Ask Halbrook what constitutes a historical inference, and how you distinguish a good method for making them from a bad one. Ask him why you might choose to trust or distrust an alleged historical expert who brought to court an extensive portfolio of previous citations in support of one side of a modern controversy.
Make it sort of a PhD level oral exam on historiography. Ask Halbrook what method he uses to exclude from his own interpretations of historical context latter-day occurrences, and ideas which could not possibly influence the past, because at that time the occurrences had yet to happen, and the ideas were yet to be thought. Ask Halbrook why it could be important to systematize the answers to questions like those, and what study he has undertaken to do that.
Then ask the other guy, maybe the holder of a possibly-meaningless endowed history professorship at Harvard or Yale. See how he answers the same questions.
I think a court would have little trouble sorting out which alleged expert knew his stuff, and it might prove entertaining to watch.
Yeah, OP is utter bullshit. Not even good credentialism.
Yes, the Supreme Court should appoint historians, if they want to lean on originalism and look like they're anything more than laundering their preferred policies through fake scholarship.
But I don't think they care enough.
Lower courts should be following precedent not history. An originalist concurrence in a lower court is showboating nonsense from someone who doesn't like their job.
Since Reeves claims to be unable to perform his duties, he should resign.
I'm not sure I understand the complaint.
The central claim of "originalism" is that we should look at what the Constitution/laws/language/etc "originally" meant in order to properly understand the law. That this obviously pushes some of the responsibility from judges to their cherry-picked historians should be a feature, not a bug, since it allows Thomas to vote for bigotry and discrimination while pretending his hands are clean by pinning it all on our forebears.
The only complaint here is that some judges listen to the "wrong" historians (i.e., historians who don't agree with the Federalist society). And I'm not sure why the rest of us should care.
If we agree that a law originally meant X, then what conditions allow courts at a later point in time to say that the law now means not-X?
The complaint is that historians are disagreeing with the historical conclusions reached by Lawyers advocating for specific viewpoints.
Wrong.
The analysis is not to decipher what the writers of the law originally meant. It is to read what was originally written as the law, it is that version that is the touchstone of what the law means.
To sneakily turn the text of the law, into divining what the legislators meant by writing it, is what makes that analysis NOT originalist.
Imagine a world in which judges appoint the nation's most prestigious historians as experts to advise the court on matters of constitutional history.
[...]
Turns out that Michael A. Bellesiles, author of Arming America, fabricated sources, distorted facts, and committed fraud.
[...]
Until then, Bellesiles would have been the perfect candidate for a court to appoint as an "expert" on history.
Wow, from that opening it sounds like this Bellesiles and his book spent many years leading the charge for gun regulation.
Hmm, turns out the book was published in 2000, got the prize in 2001, and then historians scrutinized his claims and by 2002 the award was rescinded.
So it actually looks like historians actually pretty good at rooting out prominent bad actors.
Oh, and I can't overlook this treat.
If the expert joined an amicus brief supporting the government in Heller, McDonald, or Bruen, that is a pretty good sign the expert's views are out of step with the Supreme Court.
I hope the Supreme Court doesn't rule against gravity or we'll all float off into space!!
" it actually looks like historians actually pretty good at rooting out prominent bad actors"
If Bellisles was awarded the prize before historians started disputing the claims in the book that won the prize, I assert that historians are not pretty good at rooting out bad actors. IIRC, a non-prominent historian (or a non-historian) was the first to dispute the book's claims, and the community ignored him for some time before the preference cascade began to roll.
This Halbrook sounds like one of the guys who will be squealing loudest when an enlarged Supreme Court rejects the gun nuttery (and result-driven "reasoning") embraced by right-wing judges and justices.
Carry on, clingers . . . but only so far and so long as better Americans permit, as has been customary in modern America.
Let's see what the ChatGPT chatbot says to the NPC:
"I'm sorry, but it's not appropriate to make personal attacks or insults. It's important to have respectful and civil discussions, even if we disagree with each other. It's okay to have different opinions and viewpoints, and it's important to be able to express them in a way that is respectful and constructive. Let's try to focus on having a productive conversation and finding common ground, rather than attacking or belittling each other."
You are so cute there, trying so hard to pull back the runaway train that is happening in 2A American jurisprudence.
Against all odds, it appears that the 2nd Am. has been reinvigorated from the very top of the judicial system. This after >100 years of timid neglect by the Supreme Court to recognize what is a very clear and full Amendment to the US Const.
After all that time, a sick presumption of 2A as moot has been overturned, and it will take time for all the anti-arms mentality to readjust to the new paradigm.
In Rule 706, on court-appoint witnesses, I observe the following optimistic advisory committee comment:
“While experience indicates that actual appointment is a relatively infrequent occurrence, the assumption may be made that the availability of the procedure in itself decreases the need for resorting to it. The ever-present possibility that the judge may appoint an expert in a given case must inevitably exert a sobering effect on the expert witness of a party and upon the person utilizing his services.”
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_706
"the assumption may be made?" Do they have expert testimony to back up this assumption?
Put not your faith in princes, or Patrick Charles mangles John Adams:
In the footnotes to his law review article, Arms for their Defence, Patrick Charles fails miserably:
683 See JOHN ADAMS, A DEFENCE OF THE CONSTITUTIONS OF THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 475 (Da Capo Press 1971) (1787-1788). “Individual right”proponents also argue that Adams’ Defence of the Constitution of Government of the United States of America supports their stance. They believe Adams viewed arms ownership as a right because he recognized the propriety of “arms in the hands of citizens, to be used . . . in
private self-defence.” Id. This is another quotation that Individual Right Scholars take out of context. Adams was actually articulating a principle that undercuts the “individual right” theory. He believed “arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion” would be “to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man—it is a dissolution of government.” Id. There were two exceptions to this rule that society may allow. These were (1) “private self-defence” and (2) through the militia “by partial orders of towns, counties, or districts of a state.” Id. While the former allowance—
self-defence—was not articulated as a right—fundamental, natural, or constitutional—the latter was described as “the fundamental law.” As many proponents of the militia believed, Adams felt that “[t]he arms of the commonwealth should be lodged in the hands of that part of the people which are firm to its establishment.”
The actual quote:
“To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defence, or by partial orders of towns, counties, or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed, and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws”
Contrary to Charles’ claim, Adams makes only one exception in the above cite and that is for private self defense. The other “exception” identified by Charles is instead a misuse of arms in the hands of the citizen that would lead to the destruction of the laws. Charles might have avoided his error if he had read more than the just the often cited snippet. Had he done so, he surely would not have concluded that Adams was in favor of anyone acting on “partial orders.“ Moreover, Charles' confusion regarding the right to have arms versus the duty to have arms might have been remedied by considering Adams’ teaching that men do not need to be compelled to defend their own homes and families, they need only to be compelled to defend the wider community.
Adams wrote:
"men often confine their benevolence to their families, relations, personal friends, parish, village, city, county, province, and that very few, indeed, extend it impartially to the whole community. Now, grant but this truth, and the question is decided. If a majority are capable of preferring their own private interest, or that of their families, counties, and party, to that of the nation collectively, some provision must be made in the constitution, in favor of justice, to compel all to respect the common right, the public good, the universal law, in preference to all private and partial considerations."
The above passage parallels The Assize of Arms of 1285 known as the Statute of Winchester. There King Edward directed that steps be taken to punish those who commit felonies. He held the Lords responsible to capture the criminals and set fines for failure to do so. The statute included a recitation of the types of arms persons were required to have based on each man’s station in society. Surely the "have arms" provision of the Statue of Winchester was a command rather than a right, but the King’s annoyance was not with persons defending themselves poorly, it was instead with persons failing woefully in their duty to defend the wider community.
Charles’ miscue exposes a blind spot in his thinking about the framers’ views on private self defense. Since Charles is silent, we are left to wonder what rationale he might offer for Adams’ insertion of an exception for personal self defense in that long discourse on the proper role of the militia in securing a free state. The deference shown by Adams to private self defense fits well with the Standard Model and its view of what constitutes a free state, but is not at all consistent with Charles’ view.
Judge Carlton Reeves just committed career suicide by trying to plausibly insert his own ideological bias into a clear controlling precedent situation.
All the more embarrassing was that BOTH prosecution and defense rejected his proffer to interpose a professional historian expert witness.