The Volokh Conspiracy
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Rep. Khanna on Twitter, Free Speech, and the Hunter Biden Story
A Democratic member of Congress laments how Twitter handled the New York Post's reporting on Hunter Biden's laptop.
Last Friday, Twitter released internal e-mails and other files related to the company's decision to suppress the New York Post's reporting about on the contents of Hunter Biden's recovered laptop in advance of the 2020 election. The materials were released through a Twitter thread by independent writer Matt Taibbi,
In today's WSJ, Democratic Representative Ro Khanna explains why he laments Twitter's handling of the controversy, even though it may have benefitted his political party.
Twitter's suppression [of the Hunter Biden story] violated the First Amendment principles Brennan articulated in [New York Times v.] Sullivan. Twitter banned links to the story and suspended accounts that shared it, including President Trump's press secretary and the New York Post itself—arguing that the story violated company policy because it contained information obtained through illegal means. Under the same logic, they'd have to suspend any account that posted the Pentagon Papers, which is protected by New York Times Co. v. U.S. (1971), or the story of Mr. Trump's leaked tax returns.
As Silicon Valley's representative in Congress, I reached out to Twitter at the time to share these concerns. In an email meant to be private, but recently made public by Matt Taibbi's "Twitter Files" thread, I wrote to Twitter's general counsel that the company's actions "seemed to be a violation of First Amendment principles." Although Twitter is a private actor not legally bound by the First Amendment, Twitter has come to function as a modern public square. As such, Twitter has a responsibility to the public to allow the free exchange of ideas and open debate.
Unlike many who comment on such controversies, Rep. Khanna recognizes that whether a company like Twitter is legally obligated to respect free speech principles is a seprate question from whether it is desirable or beneficial for it to do so. That Twitter is not required to provide a robust forum for divergent views and perspectives does not mean it should not do so. Put another way, pointing out that Twitter is not bound by the First Amendment is no answer to criticism of Twitter for selectively suppressing speech or information that is disagreeable or disfavored.
More from Rep. Khanna:
I agreed with Twitter's decision to take down explicit photos of Hunter Biden and to prevent algorithmic amplification of the Post story. But there's a difference between sharing and artificially amplifying. Social-media companies shouldn't have bots that amplify speech in the first place—they add chaos to the dialogue. They certainly shouldn't be abusing people's data by using it to target them with sensational content. We need to uphold the sovereign right to our data. Even so, the story itself shouldn't have been censored, and those who shared it shouldn't have been suspended. That went too far.
To the extent Twitter makes value decisions on the forum—types of conspiracy theories or hate-inciting content that gets removed or isn't promoted—the company should have clear and public criteria. Elon Musk has said Twitter will be "more aggressive than ever, using technology to reduce the reach of hateful Tweets and prevent their amplification." Transparency into how decisions are made, including some recourse to appeal, is crucial—with some independent committee or board that will thoughtfully consider a complaint of censorship.
A robust defense of First Amendment principles online is more important than ever. Citizens in our polarized country need to have conversations with each other based on mutual respect. Suppressing speech we don't like leaves us blind to alternative perspectives that help us see the whole, complex truth.
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While Twitter may have the rights to do what it wants, the bigger question here is the government coordination with Twitter on its decisions to ban or suppress certain stories.
When the people at the FBI or the Biden Administration send their contacts at Twitter the particular tweets they find problematic, then Twitter proceeds to "handle" the problem, the First Amendment is implicated. Because it appears the government is using its influence in cooperation with a media corporation to eliminate freedom of speech.
For the umpteenth time, the Biden campaign was definitionally not "the government."
And for the record, in real law instead of armchair law, the first amendment is not implicated in that scenario. The only time the 1A is implicated is if the government threatens or coerces a private actor into shutting down someone else's speech.
The FBI definitionally IS the government. Remember, it was the FBI who "passed on" all the helpful information to Twitter about what story to suppress. Your Strawmen and diversions only get you so far.
And when the government "asks" a social media corporation to do something, while simultaneously bringing up how greater "regulation" is potentially needed. The implied threat is there.
"Nice media company you have there. Shame you have these posts we don't like. It would be nice if you could take them down...otherwise, well, we might need to be a little more intrusive about our regulation".
That's a Dr Ed "remember," which is to say that it requires the existence of false memories. The FBI said nothing at all to them "about what story to suppress."
You're ignorant of the facts again. Your news sources keep you in a constant state of low information.
The facts have come out that the FBI was involved and not in a vague way but in a very precise way on this story.
Of course the FBI were involved. What possible relevance does that have?
Are you being serious right now?
This entire thread is about government colluding to censor speech. A bunch of bootlickers are saying they didn't.
The relevance is that it's the entire subject of the thread.
Wtf
You're saying the FBI shouldn't have investigated Hunter's laptop? Do you have any idea what your point is?
Wtf are you talking about? Have you been drinking?
The Democrats at the FBI shouldn't have colluded with companies to censor the news of the laptop.
Oh! Well, they didn't. So, again, your point seems to be missing.
The FBI already had Hunter Biden's laptop. They instead warned Twitter etc about a "hack and leak"campaign, even though they should have known exactly what was on the laptop.
Why do you LIKE the government lying to regular people?
Leftists tell themselves that it’s necessary because the people don’t know what’s good for them; i.e., that they’re doing it out of love for the people. The true answer, pointed out by countless observers, is that leftists are anti-human. They hate the people and want to see them oppressed and humiliated.
Except that it was the truth? Nothing actionable on the laptop, it was being used in a hack and leak campaign.
Why do you LIKE the government lying to regular people?
Wait, are they lying to Twitter or colluding with Twitter? Do you guys know what your grievance even is?
False. The FBI gave a general advisory, months before the NYPost story, that these companies should be on the lookout for Russian disinformation. That's it.
Here's what Taibbi actually reported: "Although several sources recalled hearing about a ‘general’ warning from federal law enforcement that summer about possible foreign hacks, there’s no evidence — that I’ve seen — of any government involvement in the laptop story." (Emphasis added.)
https://nypost.com/2022/12/04/fbi-warned-twitter-of-hunter-biden-hack-before-censoring-the-post/
Uh... that article backs up David. It says exactly what he (and Taibbi) said.
Are you so brainwashed that you're hallucinating news stories?
David said it was general. It was not. It was very specific about a "hack" involving "Hunter Biden" which would occur in "October".
So what is your theory of the timeline here?
The FBI knew Hunter Biden's laptop would be a story in the future and preemptively tried to spike it to protect him?
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what happened. They knew it was going to be Trump's "October surprise", and proactively moved to spike it.
Jesus Christ, Brett.
Everyone in the entire government is a full on Democratic tool with no integrity but *incredible* political foresight.
The FBI already showed the truth of every part of that except the last bit, S_0.
They knew what the October Surprise would be, Michael? As though the Trump campaign was capable of coordination like that.
The most likely explanation is not the FBI being huge Democratic supporters and throwing away their integrity, but rather that they were worried about Russian interference with the election via disinformation. Like they said.
‘and proactively moved to spike it.’
Weird how this is the take, not the sleazy corruption of Trump using hacked, stolen e-mails from sources so dodgy the FBI were alert to them to post nudes of his opponent’s son on Twitter to win the election and demanding that Twitter promote the obviously dodgy, creepy and unethical story for him.
Of course they knew it would be his October surprise. They knew Trump's campaign had access to it, after all. The only reason for not using it to slam Biden as soon as they had it was to save it for October!
Even a total political neophyte could have figured that out.
Nobody is obliged to publish or promote an October Surprise story, especially if it's dodgy, sleazy, poorly sourced, and consists mostly of nude pics, even if the President thinks he's entitled to have them do it for him.
Let's get back to how Armchair Lawyer is always wrong. (Which is tough if you think about it, so props to Mr. Lawyer!)
NYPost is a partisan rag. Which is actually very helpful. It's like Nate Silver's idea of "partisan lean" in electorates and polls -- once you calibrate for it, you can glean something close to the truth even from a biased publication.
Here's what they say about Hunter Biden:
“I also learned in these meetings that there were rumors that a hack-and-leak operation would involve Hunter Biden.”
Notice what's missing. Nothing about a laptop. Nothing about Hunter Biden even being the most likely target. Just, "rumours." People talking. "What do you think the hack-and-leak will be about?" "Oh, I've heard it's more DNC emails." "Well I heard it's Biden's medical files." "Naw, I think it's a Hunter Biden dossier." Even without any "rumours," Hunter Biden is a pretty good guess -- he was already in the news for international dirt-gathering reasons (Ukraine).
It's enough to support a very suspicious-sounding NYPost story. But once you start trying to get a grip on any actual malfeasance, it turns to dust. If you already think the FBI is full of mean Democrats, which is what Trump told you to think, then I can see how the story fits your priors and tickles your emotions. But it's vaporware. Just like Benghazi and so many other fun-yet-poisonous Republican diversions.
How did they know that? The repair guy's story is that he gave the machine to the FBI (but for some totally non-suspicious reason first made a copy for himself), and that after he didn't hear back from the FBI (but why would he?) he decided to give the material to Rudy (who he somehow was able to connect with, which isn't at all strange for a legally blind computer repair guy in Delaware]. How would the FBI know about that last?
The FBI warned Twitter during “weekly” meetings before the 2020 election to expect “hack-and-leak operations’’ by “state actors” involving Hunter Biden, and “likely” in October, according to a sworn declaration by Twitter’s former head of site integrity, Yoel Roth.
The warnings were so specific that Twitter immediately censored The Post’s scoop about Hunter Biden’s laptop on Oct. 14, 2020, citing its “hacked materials” policy, a move described on Saturday as “election interference” by Twitter’s new owner, Elon Musk.
The extraordinary revelation for the first time lays bare how the FBI was involved in pre-bunking the story of the laptop, which had been in the bureau’s possession for almost a year.
“I was told in these meetings that the intelligence community expected that individuals associated with political campaigns would be subject to hacking attacks and that material obtained through those hacking attacks would likely be disseminated over social media platforms, including Twitter,” said Roth in a Dec. 21, 2020, declaration to the Federal Election Commission.
“I also learned in these meetings that there were rumors that a hack-and-leak operation would involve Hunter Biden.”
https://nypost.com/2022/12/04/fbi-warned-twitter-of-hunter-biden-hack-before-censoring-the-post/
So yes... the FBI told them.
I came into this conversation with an open mind, and I find Brett's and Armchair's explanations - with citations - much more compelling.
SarcastrO will be coming. Wait for it.
Told them... correctly, it turns out?
The FBI didn't tell them to do anything, only issued warnings.
Neither Nieporent nor Armchair Lawyer understands state action doctrine.
One does not become a state actor because the government orders one to do something.
I will provide an explanatory scenario.
A state government employs both whites and also blacks but holds to the ideals of Jim Crow and wants to segregate the lunch cafeteria in a government building. If the government did, it would be a 14th Amendment violation.
A senior government official gets the brilliant idea to rent the cafeteria to an independent racist contractor, who sets up a racist cafeteria for government employees. The contractor becomes a state proxy (actor). The state government and probably the contractor violate state action doctrine.
I describe more or less the case of Burton v. Wilmington Pkg. Auth, 365 U.S. 715, 81 S. Ct. 856 (1961).
If Wilmington Pkg Auth and Eagle Coffee Shoppe had each rented space in a building from a third party, Wilmington Pkg Auth for a garage and Eagle Coffee Shoppe to vend coffee, there might not have been a violation of state action doctrine. The critical element of a state action violation is some form of proxying for the state.
Government orders alone do not make a private actor a state proxy (actor).
What about campaign finance law? Why isn't this considered a donation?
Why isn't regarded as NOT donating to Trump by refusing to promote the sleazy hacked nude pics of his opponents son for him?
Pretty convoluted even for you.
This is a legal blog, it's supposed to sharpen all our brains for complicated arguments!
Well when Twitter was responding directly to the Biden campaign and removing stuff they wanted removed, that's about as close to an in-kind contribution as you can get because removing negative stuff is far more valuable than posting positive stuff.
We can argue the constitutionality of the FEC, but not here -- assuming that it is legal and such, then why doesn't its rules apply here?!?
It's an in-kind contribution to remove hacked nude images of the candidate's son because they were part of a sleazy re-election campaign by the President of the United States? Wouldn't leaving them up have been an in-kind contribution to Trump, as well as a violation of their own TOS?
On the contrary, the Biden campaign (or any credible candidate's campaign) most definitely can be 'the government'.
By way of analogy, how far do you think you'd get arguing that "it wasn't quid pro quo bribery because X hadn't quite taken office yet"?
Campaigns are very much not the government. There are lots of serious measures in place about that, in fact!
I would indeed argue that it’s not bribery until X takes office, because any official acts in recompense for bribes would take place after they took office.
Are you thinking more of attempted bribery?
I think you'd get all the way to the Supreme Court, which just heard that argument last week!
This provides no evidence the Biden Administration did anything to implicate the First Amendment for a very simple reason: Biden was a private citizen and had not yet won the election at the time of the communications. I think this is relevant; what is your opinion?
Furthermore, we have very limited evidence if either (1) the Trump campaign had similar communications with Twitter during the 2020 campaign or (2) the Trump Administration had such communications either.
Do you think these would be relevant questions to understand the nature of the communications between Twitter and politicians and political campaigns?
That it was the FBI that passed on the story about the Biden laptop. And they were government.
And once Biden took power, he and his government used the power to suppress other stories at Twitter that they found inconvenient.
False. The FBI didn't say anything to twitter about the Biden laptop. You didn't pay any attention to the facts.
They used no such "power," which they didn't have.
They didn't directly anything about the "laptop." They said there would be "hacked materials" regarding Hunter Biden coming out in October.
Easy enough to put together there for Twitter. Especially since the FBI knew about the laptop.
And to claim the government has no power to influence social media companies? Wow.
Easy enough to put together there for Twitter. Especially since the FBI knew about the laptop.
This is an conspiracy theory. You are, real-time, making up a conspiracy theory.
And then you're expecting everyone else to believe it.
Good luck with that.
What conspiracy...?
If I tell you in a special government-company meeting to be on the lookout for potential "hacked materials" in a certain month considering a certain person, while having a copy of the hacked materials in my hands, but knowing there's another copy out there.
And then certain electronic information comes out right in that exact month right about that exact person. It's pretty clear what was meant. That's simple logic. Not a conspiracy. Especially when a bunch of ex-government employees come out saying "yeah this was most likely hacked/foreign government disinformation"
What you said, only they knew damned well that the materials were not, in fact, hacked, but instead were the real thing.
They were hacked or otherwise stolen.
You can claim that however times you want, and it won't make it true.
You can deny it all you want, doesn't make it less true, unless you can show they were already publicly available or Hunter Biden gave them to some other party for their use of his own free will.
He gave them to the computer repairman of his own free will, under (quite standard) terms that stated that the laptop would become property of the repair shop if the repairs were not paid for within a fairly generous period of time.
Then he apparently forgot where he'd left it to be repaired, an occupational hazard for crack heads.
That's certainly the story, but as far as I can tell it's entirely unconfirmed by anyone, with only a few e-mails being confirmed as belonging to Hunter Biden, but with no clear indication of how they got there.
How do you know? The computer repairman says he has no idea who gave it to him.
That's not what the terms say, and if they did they would not comply with Delaware law anyway.
And even if the laptop did eventually become the property of the repair shop, that still wouldn't give the shop the rights to the contents of the laptop!
I'm really not sure what you think you're arguing here. The FBI got wind of and issued warnings about a coming effort to use hacked material to affect the election - lo and behold, Trump tried to use hacked material to effect the election. We still don;t know who did the steaing/hacking - a foreign government could have been involved, and the people involved had no end of dodgy foreign intelligence connections.
You seem to be under the impression that if you just lie hard enough about the material being "hacked", people will give up and pretend it's true.
The FBI seem to think they were hacked, and given how dodgy the whole laptop thing is, not to mention how sleazy and murky and muddy, I see no compelling evidence otherwise.
No, the FBI seems to have used the notion that hacked materials would be distributed as a way of giving outlets like Twitter a pre-made excuse to spike any stories about it. No actual evidence of "hacking" has ever been presented.
Oh, so now the FBI warning WASN'T about the Hunter Biden laptop?
Seriously, though, there's no way those bot accounts posting the nude pics on Twitter came by them honestly.
So what you're saying is it would be more accurate to say the Trump Administration pressured Twitter here?
Please help me understand --
That's not what Taibbi said. I understood him to affirmatively confirm the opposite when he said:
"Although several sources recalled hearing about a “general” warning from federal law enforcement that summer about possible foreign hacks, there’s no evidence - that I've seen - of any government involvement in the laptop story."
That's in his tweet #22.
Parse the statement in context. The head end of the statement discusses the claim of influence by FOREIGN governments. The phrase "government involvement" at the tail end continues to refer to foreign governments, not the US government.
First, your interpretation is certainly possible. But to reach that interpretation, you must read into a vague tweet some words that simply are not there. It's ambiguous.
Second, having read the entire body of work Taibbi published, there is no mention of the FBI pushing Twitter to censor the story. So we're back to square one. If the FBI did say something to Twitter, it's not in evidence from Taibbi's reporting to date.
And don't forget about this:
https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/whats-missing-from-the-twitter-files-the-truth-about-the-fbi/
If what she suggests is true -- and sworn depositions either exist or they don't -- then the FBI very much WAS involved and they ARE government actors...
Don't forget Katie Hobbs SOS office.
Or the Comet Pizza basement!
We have seen the emails.
Acting on the behalf of any political party should put them clearly within the realm of election laws. Their suppression of any information a party does not want must be viewed as being employed by that party and subject to campaign finance laws if not more.
My petition to SCOTUS for certiorari to the Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in the matter of Martillo v. Twitter is to be filed Wed Dec 7.
Here are the questions presented.
1. Whether digital personal literary property, which a Defendant carries in the form of a post, comment, or tweet, is “other property” according to M.G.L. Chapter 159 § 1.
2. Whether a 2022 social medium platform is a common law common carrier.
3. Whether the public has a Constitutional right,
a) which guarantees non-discriminatory common carriage,
b) which was long-established at the time the original thirteen colonial states ratified the US Constitution, and
c) which is confirmed by US Constitution Amendment IX.
4. Whether Amendment I gives a 2022 social medium platform, which is unequivocally a message common carrier, a Constitutional right to refuse message common carriage of digital personal literary property from any member of the public to any member of the public.
5. Whether “hosting” (bailment) of digital personal literary property in a backend server constitutes speech of a 2022 social medium platform.
6. Whether it is allowable for a Court to use a logical fallacy in interpretation of a statute.
7. Whether a 2022 social medium platform is a 1996 Interactive Computer Service (ICS) as an ICS is defined in 47 U.S. Code § 230.
8. Whether the Internet
a) is a government-supported place of public accommodation, in which a social medium platform violates public accommodation anti-discrimination law;
b) is a government-created government-supported government-designated public forum, in which a social medium platform violates public forum doctrine by hosting a discriminatory open forum; or
c) contains government networks and facilities, in which state action doctrine is violated by discriminatory actions of a social medium platform.
9. Whether the dismissal of the Petitioner’s Original Complaint is an abuse of discretion.
If SCOTUS grants cert, these questions could all be answered.
Actually they couldn't be, because #1 and #2 are questions of Massachusetts state law. But it's like arguing over who would win a fight, Batman or Spider-man, because it's all based on an absurd hypothetical; SCOTUS isn't granting cert on your case.
Both the issue of “other property” and “common law common carrier” pertain to the Ninth Amendment, which is within the purview of the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court can address these questions if it wishes.
I doubt that a state can summarily negate a form of property without violation of the 5th or 14th Amendments.
The case was in Federal Court because of Diversity Jurisdiction. If I understand correctly when a case comes before the District Court under Diversity Jurisdiction, it is appealed to the Federal Appeals Court and is reviewed by the Supreme Court according to 28 U.S. Code § 1254(1).
They do not. How to interpret a Massachusetts statute is purely a question of Massachusetts law. The Ninth Amendment has nothing to say on the subject.
This is nonsensical in so many ways, but I'll pick one: saying that M.G.L. Chapter 159 § 1 does not apply to a particular item does not "negate" anything. It isn't taking that item away from someone.
It doesn't matter whether it's federal question jurisdiction or diversity jurisdiction; in either case it goes to the circuit court if appealed. And in either case, the Supreme Court has discretion as to whether to grant cert. And there is the same chance of the USMNT being reinstated to the World Cup and winning the whole thing as there is of SCOTUS granting your cert petition.
Either Nieporent did not read the District Court order, or Nieporent did not understand it.
Judge Stearns asserts that the Great Court did not include literary property -- something that is well defined since the middle 17th century -- in the category of "other property" and never intended for it so be covered. Judge Stearns uses a 1990s voice precedent to back his assertion.
Literary property before telegraphy is something like an unpublished play, novel, history text, a poem, or letter.
All through the 1850s telegraph service carries such literary property via digital telegraph transmission, and such digital literary property is treated legally just like the print version of literary property.
The Great Court enacted the common carriage statutes in 1869. voice telephone common carriage does not exist until 1876. Judge Stearn's logic escapes me. Maybe Nieporent can explain his logic to me. Judge Stearns seems to have piled violation of causality upon a belief in the psychic abilities of Massachusetts legislators in order to claim that the legislators removed (negated) literary property from the category of standard property that a common carrier might carry.
Will originalist Justices believe Judge Stearns dismissed my original complaint on the basis of a sound legal conclusion?
The Federal government caught up with Massachusetts and other states in the early 20th century when the Federal government updated 17 U.S. Code § 102.
Why is Federal Statutory Copyright relevant? Nieporent probably missed the law school classes on copyright or slept through them, but if he had actually studied the material, he would have learned that literary property is also called the right of first publication and is an element of common law copyright, which unlike federal statutory copyright includes both in rem rights and also in personam rights.
In 1976, 17 U.S. Code § 301 absorbed in personam common law copyright rights into federal statutory copyright. The in rem rights persist and are confirmed by the Ninth Amendment. The in rem rights of common law copyright can only be extinguished by Constitutional Amendment.
Do I have to explain the difference between in rem rights and in personam rights?
That's not actually what he wrote, but you do you. What he actually said was that your intended victims were not common carriers of merchandise or other property. Your bizarre ideas about "literary property" played no role in the decision. Whether something is a common carrier does not depend on whether the messages being carried constitute copyrighted material or a grocery list.
That's true! But that's your failing, not his.
No! He didn't say that they "removed" anything. The question is whether they included it, not whether they removed it.
Again, copyright has literally zero to do with this.
Not only is every word here utter gibberish, but it's irrelevant gibberish. That you don't understand this makes you a losing kook, not a genius.
I'm just curious what you're going to say when the Supreme Court expeditiously denies cert. Are you going to claim they're all stupid and don't understand law as well as you? That the Jewish Cabal coerced them into rejecting your arguments?
David Nieporent continues to show evidence that he takes stupid pills every morning.
Why did Judge Stearns fail simply to write that the defendants are not common carriers without the surplusage about the 1869 Massachusetts law that made statutory the treatment that Massachusetts had long given common carriers including a telegraph service since 1845?
Is a paper letter not included in "other property"? It certainly was in 1869. A Massachusetts message common carrier in the 1869 was fined for refusing common carriage of letter.
How does a telegraph message (digital personal literary property) differ from a paper message (personal literary property)?
Is the telegraph message not eiusdem generis enough for David Nieporent?
Or does David Nieporent wish to demonstrate once again that he does not understand eiusdem generis. He has already demonstrated in this comment section that he does not understand State Action Doctrine?
I might have paid attention to a clown like David Nieporent if AT&T's top legal experts had not addressed the law of common carriage of digital personal literary property in the context of AT&T's packet data network service.
Because David Nieporent is a technological ignoramus, I will state the following explicitly.
The Internet is a packet data network.
Why would the law that applied in 1985 to a packet data network not apply in 2022 to a packet data network?
Do we add stare decisus to the basis legal principles that are beyond David Nieporent's understanding?
David Nieportent continues to demonstrate his blithering incompetence with his inability to understand an originalist argument.
It's very likely that it is; a piece of paper is actual, physical property, just like a sack of corn, a horse, or a hat. Note that this is true regardless of whether the piece of paper has written on it an original poem, a recipe for grilled cheese, or is entirely blank.
Now, why do you think that whether something is "a packet data network" would be relevant to any law at issue here? Do any of the statutes in question discuss network architecture in any way?
And no matter how many times you insult me, it won't change the fact that judges keep rejecting your arguments out of hand.
He did write that. Why isn't that sufficient for you to understand that the defendants are not common carriers?
David Nieporent shows his ignorance of SCOTUS.
SCOTUS denies cases for many reasons.
Lots of patent law experts and the solicitor general believed that American Axle & Manufacturing, Inc., Petitioner v. Neapco Holdings LLC, et al. [20-891] was perfect for SCOTUS to provide guidance on patent eligibility doctrine, but SCOTUS denied cert.
Martillo v. Twitter was dismissed without prejudice. I can refile without the trip to SCOTUS. SCOTUS might deny cert simply because I can refile.
I agree with Philip Hamburger. I hate Florida's reasoning in its petition for a writ of certiorari (too much policy not enough originalism). If SCOTUS grants cert, I hope that my litigation is combined with Florida's litigation. There is probably some value in just giving the clerks a chance to read reasoning that lawyers from the pre-Breakup AT&T legal department might have used. Unlike David Nieporent those lawyers understood both the technology and also the issues of
A pre-Breakup AT&T lawyer also knew how to read a statute or a patent claim -- something which seems completely beyond David Nieporent.
No, it was not dismissed without prejudice. Where on earth did you get that from?
That government coordination was the Trump White House, too, as well as government agencies headed by Trump appointees (or Acting Trump people).
So much for the "bias."
Well, yeah: Twitter was mildly responsive to Republican officeholders, and very responsive to Democrats whether they were in office or not. Reportedly it was all based on the politician finding a sympathetic champion inside Twitter, and because of the skewed ideological balance at Twitter, the Democrats just had enormously more champions, and much less chance of their actions coming to the attention of somebody who might reverse them.
Twitter's system, the point is, was not doing this on the basis of "the algorithm". It was all just off the cuff actions by unaccountable individuals.
Well.... as happy and trite as all that is, it's not super relevant to this particular case at Twitter. The policy in question is Twitter's policy against material obtained through hacking. It's not viewpoint-related in the slightest. I've never been a fan of the policy for essentially the reasons Khanna expressed -- the "Pentagon Papers" analogy that you shouldn't hold media responsible for the origins of information.
But, for whatever reason, Twitter felt like it should hold itself responsible for the origin of hacked information. It's an oddly specific constraint -- I suspect it's simply because as a tech company, it's especially sensitive to accusations of incentivizing (and profiting from!) hacking.
So this is a non-sequitur:
That Twitter is not required to provide a robust forum for divergent views and perspectives does not mean it should not do so.
Twitter didn't ban the story because it was a divergent view. It banned it because it came via a mechanism it didn't want to encourage.
Nothing was hacked in the Hunter Biden laptop story. Try again.
Someone ended up with a purloined copy of what was purported to be -- and at least partially was -- Hunter Biden's laptop files. That's, like, the definition of hacked. Do you have aphasia, or what's your problem?
What "purloined" copy? The hard drive was abandoned at a repair shop. The shop owner made a digital image of the drive, and then gave the original to the FBI, who then buried it for an entire year. When the shop owner never received any follow-up he decided to give a copy of the image to Giuliani.
Nothing was stolen. The abandoned hard drive belonged to the shop owner -- that's what happens when you fail to pick up (and pay for) your repairs.
The NYT is presently pushing the line that the laptop was stolen. Thus "purloined". They know it's bullshit, but it's just an excuse to ignore the contents in exactly the way the media don't ignore stolen documents if they want to expose them.
As Mr. Khanna politely points out, this is the very same NYT that itself opted to publish the Pentagon papers. Also the same NYT that opted to publish Trump's tax returns just a couple of years ago. Never too late to turn over a new leaf, I guess!
We all remember when the Pentagon Papers showed up.
An unknown customer dropped off a broken laptop for repair at a shop in Delaware. It was never picked up and apparently the customer never even left his name so the shop owner could contact him.
Eventually, for reasons that are unclear, the shop owner gave the laptop to the FBI, but first he made a copy of the hard drive, which—again, for unclear reasons—he turned over to Giuliani's lawyer.
This rock-solid sourcing is why the Pentagon Papers credibility has never been questioned.
Cool story, bro. Back in the real world, the repair quote has Hunter Biden's 1) name, 2) phone number, 3) email address, and 4) signature.
But sorry, I didn't mean to distract you from explaining how the NYT obtained sanctioned copies of the Pentagon Papers and Trump's tax returns and published them under full blessing of the owners.
WTF does sanctioned have to do with anything?
If you think I support twitter's blocking of the NY Post story, I don't. (Though I did at the time). There appears to to have been no partisan involvement or political influence in twitter making that decisions.
And if you're going to pretend the laptop's provenance is not sketchy, you're playing yourself.
Ah, back from a coffee break and full of fresh shit to throw at the wall and hope it sticks.
Sarcastr0, the very fact that almost everybody calling the shots at Twitter was left wing was enough to constitute partisan involvement.
Yes, Brett, we all know you don't believe any liberal can be a professional. We all know this is how you get like hundreds of little conspiracies across the nation with no more proof than that a liberal exists.
But you don't live in a political thriller. Real people who are loyal to party above their own integrity are very much the rare exception. For the millionth time, you need more than proof of party affiliation to get to the conspiracies you spin.
Bumble continues with the contentless insults rather than engagement. Surely you can respond to what I actually said, if what I'm saying is so clearly wrong?
Sarcastr0, liberals can be professional, (Which I remind you from time to time, means nothing more than getting paid for the work instead of doing it as a labor of love.) but that hardly makes anything liberals DO "professional".
They blocked all access on Twitter to the laptop, including locking the account of a major newspaper, and then after the fact came up with excuses for doing so. The fact that liberals did that doesn't make it professional behavior.
Your entire game that you play again and again is to posit some bad faith nonsense, and as proof show the net party affiliation of the employees of the institution you’re speculating about.
That’s not proof, that’s paranoia.
They blocked all access on Twitter to the laptop. That’s demonstrably untrue.
The fact that liberals did that doesn’t make it professional behavior. You would think I'm just doing the reverse of what you do and assuming every action by a liberal is perfect. No, I'm not as partisan as you.
The fact that we have a record of it being passed to higher-ups by those in the trenches, and said higher-ups discussing what to do in a professional manner is proof of that.
Nah, at this point in time in particular, you're just having a hard time getting away from two years of wishful thinking.
Most recently, alt-right CBS commissioned a forensic analysis and concluded the contents are authentic.
Hunter's lawyers are quoted extensively in the article, and manage to say all sorts of carefully calibrated words OTHER THAN "it's not Hunter's" or any variant. You're more than smart enough to know what that means.
I want to be clear - some on here are sure Hunter Biden's laptop is all hackery and hoaxing. I am not.
What I am speaking to is what twitter knew when they were making their decision.
As would be clear if you bothered to read the entire thread. Which is good practice - it prevents useless comments like yours.
Ackshully Mr. prissy pants thread police, the subject when I entered the thread was the NYT justifying withholding publication because the laptop was allegedly "stolen." Ever since then you've repeatedly tried to pivot to authenticity, and the first time I specifically pointed out you were raising a distraction. Your triumphant pouncing about thread creep after I didn't explicitly call you out for doing it the second time is really... sad
So when I said 'If you think I support twitter’s blocking of the NY Post story, I don’t. (Though I did at the time)'
You think the subsequent comments in reply were about the NY Times?
"What I am speaking to is what twitter knew when they were making their decision."
Which is to say, they had squat in the way of proof that there was anything shady going on, and they went to Defcon 2, even going so far as locking a major daily out of their account, and censoring private messages, on the basis of having squat.
You know, in the exact way they DIDN'T react to Trump's illegally leaked tax documents?
If you don't already do so (work for the DNC) you need to approach the them for a full time job creating "facts" to feed the faithful. Your comments here show you are eminently capable.
Your utter inability to engage with what I say, and just be grumpy about it, shows you're not really capable of rebutting.
That would be your MO.
You don't think I engage with what people say?
Or are you trying for an 'I know you are but what am I' and didn't really think too hard about it.
The Pentagon Papers were defiinitely in the public interest. Hunter Biden's willy, not so much.
Way to obfuscate and ignore the 10% for the Big Guy.
Which continues to be smoke without fire.
Even making the unsupported leap that the big guy is Biden, you have no actual money going to him.
Hunter paying for Joe's living expenses is money going to him.
So you think the 10% going to the Big Guy means Hunter paying Biden’s phone bill and home repairs?
Man, that Joe Biden was living large!
Money's fungible, Sarcastr0. You know that.
Yeah, the Bidens have not shown Pelosi level skills at profiting from public office, I'll give you that. Hunter was trying to up their game.
Whoever that was.
If this is their definition of "stolen" then I have no recourse but to believe everything they report on the government as "espionage" using their own "worst case, ignoring all context" logic.
When the shop owner never received any follow-up he decided to give a copy of the image to Giuliani.
Really? You think repair shop owners making unauthorized copies of people's hard drives and giving them to Rudy Giuliani is a-ok?
That's a disturbing dystopian fantasy that you've concocted for yourself.
"Really? You think repair shop owners making unauthorized copies of people’s hard drives and giving them to Rudy Giuliani is a-ok?"
At the point when he was making the copies they weren't somebody else's hard drives anymore, you seem to have trouble grasping that. Ownership transferred when Biden failed to pay the repair bill.
As David points out below, you're wrong. A court would've had to have granted him ownership of the laptop, and it's unlikely (impossible?) that they would've transferred Biden's ownership of and copyrights over the contents to the shopkeep. It doesn't even make sense. If Biden's book manuscript had been on there, the repair shop guy could publish it as his own? What? That's just stupid. He should've erased the drive. Obviously.
It's amazing how disinterested you become in basic property rights when an opportunity to own the libs arises. Your entire brain is now dominated by partisanship. It's called Magaheimer's Disease.
Actually, no. You haven't read Delaware law, have you? It is true that someone in possession of abandoned personal property (which includes property left with another but without payment or claim to it) can acquire title to it, but only by getting a court order — not by saying, "It's mine now."
(Also, you're assuming that Hunter Biden was the one who gave the laptop to the repair shop, but in fact the repair shop guy coyly claims not to know who did so.)
Moreover, even if the repair shop guy did acquire title to the laptop, that didn't give him a right to the contents of the laptop.
"which includes property left with another but without payment or claim to it) can acquire title to it, but only by getting a court order"
I certainly haven't read the law for Delaware, or any other state, but I find this interesting. IMHE, places that take stuff in for later return - dry cleaners, mechanics, tailors, hardware stores, yadda, almost universally have a sign up that says something like 'Items not claimed in XX days become the property of the store and will be disposed of'. It's frequently also printed on the claim check or other paperwork you get.
I'd think such a provision would be almost a necessity for a business. Imagine a dry cleaner - surely there is some routine number of items that are never claimed. It's hardly economic to call up their lawyer to get a court order for every orphaned shirt. Are they supposed to batch them up for an annual court order?
Is Delaware an outlier here, or are dry cleaners across the country flouting the law, or what?
And if that were reliably the case, Hunter's lawyers would have sued the guy into bankruptcy by now. Have you considered that such rights might be overriden by contract?
Would he? What would he get out of such a suit? Revenge? That’s short-sighted. Money? I don’t think he wants the repair shop guy’s money.
It’s better for Hunter to keep creating confusion about the chain of custody etc. etc. than to initiate a fact-based lawsuit for no gain.
Nothing was purloined.
Is that you, Jim Baker?
You do love you some NY Post nonsense!
I support the conclusion that we need more facts to assess whether the materials were hacked. At this stage, however, it is reasonable for us to assume that they may have been and that caution is warranted. There are some facts that indicate that the materials may have been hacked, while there are others indicating that the computer was either abandoned and/or the owner consented to allow the repair shop to access it for at least some purposes. We simply need more information.
Baker is guilty of providing useless advice. That's it.
Are you going to revisit your assessment now that Baker has (I would say belatedly) been fired from Twitter for misconduct?
Baker was not fired from Twitter for misconduct.
E-mails and pictures and videos on the hard drive have been authenticated and were likely hacked and then added to it. The chain of custody for this laptop, wherever it actually is, is beyond a joke.
“E-mails and pictures and videos on the hard drive have been authenticated and were likely hacked and then added to it.”
Really strong weed this morning? And just who “added” it?
I wonder if Giuliani or Trump know? Os it it worse if they didn't even bother to try to find out?
...but who "added" it? Simple question.
Ask Giuliani and Trump, it was their ratfuck.
You made the claim so answer the question or just shut up.
Where did I claim to know who did the hacking? That's a question for the people who came up with this ratfuck to answer.
How would we know that? But we know that files were added and modified after the time when the alleged laptop was supposedly left with the repair shop guy.
Prove it.
None of the analyses show the files weren't hacked.
Khanna's take is typically terrible, even if he's right that Twitter made a mistake in "suppressing" [sic] the NYPost story. (They did not, of course, actually suppress it; they Streisand Effected it.)
First, Twitter has no "responsibility to the public" to allow people to use its platform. I think that social media companies should use a very light touch in moderating their content, but that's a personal preference, not their obligation.
Second, this abomination of a string of sentences is an argument in favor of Roe v. Wade; the paragraph should've been aborted:
It's a combination of gibberish and, well, ignorance. He utterly fails to understand social media's business model, thinks that people somehow own information, and doesn't understand that social media companies have their own first amendment rights to decide what speech to promote.
Speaking of the “whole, complex truth”, it doesn’t hurt to look at the big picture while considering Twitter’s mistakes:
1. The origin of the infamous laptop was (and is) an obvious farce. Anyone who believes the Blind Trump Fanatic Computer Repairman story needs to be on his guard against Brooklyn Bridge salesmen.
2. That said, the laptop has survived all challenges to its authenticity, both before and after the election. Whatever dark corner of Ukraine Rudy bought it in, he definitely purchased legit goods. (One hopes Russian Intelligence gave him a frequent buyers discount)
3. That the laptop turned out to be such a big Nothing is further proof of its authenticity. Its sum total of “scandals” went off like a drenched squib. Little Hunter led a dissolute life? He got a business associate a handshake with daddy? He talked about cutting his father in on a business deal after Joe left public office – and the deal with nowhere anyway….. Big time news, huh? Scandal-wise, the laptop is zero times zero divided by zero.
4. And yet every allegation and fact was relentlessly reported via TV, radio, internet and newspaper. There may have been nothing there, but each atom of nothingness got dozens of stories.
5. We now return you to your Twitter-Laptop-Hysteria. Enjoy!
The conspiracy power is strong within you.
Uh huh. Rudy spent well over a year rooting thru every sleazy corner of Ukraine looking for Hunter dirt. (insert pig-truffles-metaphor here). At one point the White House was warned by the CIA:
“The warnings were based on multiple sources, including intercepted communications, that showed Giuliani was interacting with people tied to Russian intelligence during a December 2019 trip to Ukraine, where he was gathering information that he thought would expose corrupt acts by former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter.”
And then late in the election, Rudy shows up with a laptop that magically fell into his hands via a Blind Trump Fanatic Computer Repairman. Sorry, Armchair, your gullibility is the issue here, not my conspiracy-mongering…..
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/15/politics/rudy-giuliani-russian-intelligence-misinformation-operation-trump
That is not, in fact, true. Setting aside that it is a mistake to talk about "the laptop" — what people have been allowed to see is not an actual laptop, but a drive that people claim is an image of a laptop's drive — the analysts who have examined it have said that it is not authentic. Specifically, they have said that files were added to/changed on the image after the time it was supposedly given to the blind store owner.
Here's what we actually know: some of the files and emails on the purported laptop are genuine. But that's what any competent intelligence agency would do: plant fake documents among real ones.
To be sure (and as you note), the fact that nobody — including right wing outfits like the New York Post — have actually found anything interesting in its contents suggests that it's likely mostly genuine. If someone were going to engage in dirty tricks to take down Biden, they'd have probably put something that was damning in there. If not a smoking gun, then at least something that pointed to one. But instead we have some dick pics of Hunter Biden and a few emails that don't actually show Joe Biden doing anything wrong.
Good point. I should have recalled the laptop contained Hunter pictures that were (a) taken by some third party, and (b) highly humiliating to him. To reiterate: These weren’t photos some stoner might see as stoner happy days, but absolutely cringeworthy images.
Back in the laptop’s heyday, I remember wondering what scenario could explain that. How did people see Hunter loading & hoarding pictures designed to show himself in the worse possible light?
" These weren’t photos some stoner might see as stoner happy days, but absolutely cringeworthy images."
Have you considered that a stoner's idea of happy days might be somebody else's idea of cringeworthy? We're not talking about somebody with normal tastes or moral constraints, after all.
Here's a minefield for you to negotiate - morally condemning provate citizen Hunter Biden after voting for serial adulterer Trump, the guy who was having sex with a porn star while his wife as giving birth, because private morality and family values suddenly stopped mattering.
Deflect, dissemble and obfuscate. I guess it was no big deal the Clinton was getting a BJ from an intern while he was the President.
Yes, that certainly didn't turn out to be a big deal, but Hunter Biden is a private citizen.
Nice!
Trump's tastes actually seem rather pedestrian, actually, even if his morality is sub-par. That's why they had to make up stuff like the piss tape, for instance: Because he's a guy with boring tastes.
Cheater, accused rapist, confirmed creep. Totally pedestrian, for a Republican.
Brett Bellmore : “Trump’s tastes actually seem rather pedestrian…”
Sure, as long as you ignore the repulsive sexual obsession with his own daughter. Do we need to list the many examples of that?
Brett Bellmore : “That’s why they had to make up stuff like the piss tape…”
Of course you’ve been shown the tape exists on multiple occasions but some facts just can’t penetrate your Trumpian idolatry. But – hell – let’s do it one more time: Per Mueller’s report, Trump dispatched fixer Michael Cohen to Moscow to secure a sex tape. There, Cohen engaged a Russian businessman named Giorgi Rtskhiladze to act as intermediary, negotiating with criminal elements behind the Crocus Group – which had helped host the 2013 Miss Universe Pageant in Moscow.
Michael Cohen got a text during the 2016 campaign from Rtskhiladze saying, “Stopped flow of tapes from Russia but not sure if there’s anything else. Just so you know.” MC then reported this success back to Trump, who was no doubt relieved.
To be fair, Rtskhiladze thought the Crocus Group faked the tape, and so testified before Mueller’s grand jury. Cohen testified as well, and you can find the summary of their pee tape evidence on page 239 of Mueller’s report. You can also find stills of the video or perhaps the entire thing if you look. (I’ve never tried. It’s something I don’t want to unsee)
Meaning: One of your biggest whine-fests about Steele and the “Russian Hoax” is yet another Bellmore blunder. No one in the western world made up a damn thing about the tape, Steele reported a very solid piece of gossip, and the video was real enough for Trump to pay hush money to secure it. Now, here’s my question: How long until you forget all this (inconvenient) info and peddle your tired old shtick again?
Oh, right, you actually believe in the piss tape has been shown to be real. You're that stupid.
Your weaseling is seldom so obvious, Brett. I talk about sworn testimony by multiple witnesses before a grand jury. I quote a text from 2016 secured as evidence by Mueller. I give you a specific page number in Mueller’s report. I note you can find actual stills from the tape on the internet and (probably) the entire damn thing itself.
But – hey – you’re addicted to lies – so you just try to brazen it out with an insult. Who do you think that fools? Does the amount of day-to-day dishonesty you bring to this site ever bother you? Even to the tinniest little degree? Don’t you think it should?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/09/inside-the-convincing-fake-trump-pee-tape.html
The FBI has the actual laptop.
Which relevant files have these supposed analysts agreed were "added to/changed on the image after the time it was supposedly given to the blind store owner"?
Or are you just, as usual, FUDding and pushing ambiguity beyond the point of reason?
Don't forget the part about him sexing it up with his underage niece and the child porn.
Two more zeroes to add to your equation!
Ah, the kiddie porn makes it appearance at last!
Let’s run thru this, shall we? One of the most vicious & no-holds-barred right-wing rags has a copy of the laptop harddrive (NY Post). One of Trump’s most sleazy & underhanded supporters likewise (Rudy Giuliani). Per BCD, the laptop contains child pornography. But no porn is ever produced by Biden’s most ruthless enemies. Sorry, Charlie, but ya gotta see a problem there.
Otherwise you’re Sierra Tango Uniform Papa India Delta. (I was actually a damn good radio man during my years in the Guard)
There were more comments from people who had seen it about it on Twitter than Joe's molesting Ashley in Ashley's diary.
We all saw what the FBI was doing to people.
Sierra-tango-uniform-papa-india-delta
Sierra-quebec-uniform-alpha-romeo-echo-delta!
There were also lots of comments from people who saw Hilary Clinton's spirit-cooking video, and that 'other' video that was literally too horrible to be seen by anyone - so we know what that's worth.
Of course you want Republicans to distribute child porn, but they're not going to break the law -- especially not just because you think they should. (Speaking of stupid.)
That won't stop you from believing it's there!
Michael P : (Speaking of stupid.)
Speaking of stupid, that’s the most pathetic joke of an excuse I’ve ever heard. This is your braindead theory: The NY Post & Giuliani are sitting on evidence the son of a presidential candidate trafficked in child pornography. All they have to do is show this evidence to independent witnesses to create a super mega-scandal. But instead they do nothing. Why? Because that would be “breaking the law”…
Are you so much the clown to believe something that dumb ?!?
If Republicans had turned such a video over to law enfocement, the only right thing to do, they would have said so. Loudly. Many, many times.
Thank you, Nige. That's even more to the point. If the NY Post or Rudy had turned over a copy of the hard drive to the relevant sex crimes unit of law enforcement and held a press conference afterwards, they would have had the mother-of-all scandals.
Are people like Michael P dumb enough to believe the nonsense they say - or does truth just have no value for them?
"Whatever dark corner of Ukraine Rudy bought it in, he definitely purchased legit goods:
He was *given* a copy -- he didn't buy it.
The repairman -- the legal owner of the drive -- burned multiple copies and gave them to anyone & everyone whom he thought would give a damn. This includes several reporters who have quietly mentioned that *they* also have a copy of it.
This really precludes any creative editing of the data -- even if you could, and with an "image", you can't. But enough other people have copies and Rudy isn't *that* stupid...
There is the whole issue of where the laptop actually came from and who had access to it before anything was turned over to anyone. But ok.
So Dr. Ed 2 actually believes the Blind Trump Fanatic Computer Repairman gibberish?!? I guess if you reside in today’s Right, you will believe anything, however ludicrous, bizarre or absurd.
As a public service, below is a link to 70+ pages documenting Giuliani’s sleazy campaign to find/manufacture Hunter dirt. This stretched over two years, involved the services of low-grade crook henchmen Parnas & Fruman, resulted in multiple trips to Ukraine by Rudy, prompted a CIA warning to the White House that RG was talking to Russian spies, and had him disappearing down every dark Ukrainian rabbit hole seeking product to buy.
Then Rudy shows-up on the eve of the 2020 election sporting his magic laptop with its even-more magic origin: The Blind Trump Fanatic Computer Repairman.
Just how gullible are you, Ed?
https://www.justsecurity.org/66271/timeline-trump-giuliani-bidens-and-ukrainegate/
"seemed to be a violation of First Amendment principles"
It’s really about people who want some viewpoints shut down versus others who want you to decide for yourself what you view and are willing to afford others the same courtesy. Totalitarianism versus Americanism.
A lot of news and tech organizations chose the wrong one. Many of them keep choosing the wrong one over and over and over.
Do you have a first amendment right to violate someone's privacy by stealing images of them from their computer and putting them online? Can the President of the United States or his representatives and proxies demand a private entity publish those stolen images in order to benefit his re-election campaign?
"Do you have a first amendment right to violate someone’s privacy by stealing images of them from their computer and putting them online?
1: While I would like to see a DMCA expert weigh in, ownership of the medium in which they were stored transferred with the ownership of the unclaimed laptop.
2: Two words: Bush Tape -- That was *secretly* recorded, without Trump's knowledge, and then....
Can the President of the United States or his representatives and proxies demand a private entity publish those stolen images in order to benefit his re-election campaign?
He can legitimately demand that the Federal Government not stop a private third party from doing so...
1. Assuming the contents of the laptop or the laptop itself weren't themselves hacked or stolen.
2. So, not stolen.
3. Yeah, but what he actually did was try to get Twitter to publish the dick pics and push his sleazy hit-job.
"whether a company like Twitter is legally obligated to respect free speech principles is a separate [] question from whether it is desirable or beneficial for it to do so."
Good question.
But not concerned enough to quit the party in protest, I'll bet.
A congressman should quit his party because Twitter did something he disagreed with?
…Twitter did something* he disagreed with that was expressly approved by every Democrat in Congress except Mr. Khanna.
* Which happened to be suppression of clear evidence of political corruption by the Democratic presidential candidate.
Other than that, no reason at all!
He represents Silicone Valley.
Methinks he is trying to place himself to defend it.
One sees here how the Democrats are responsible adults, while Republicans are corrupt and invertebrate.
Biden did not call opponents juvenile names. His own Justice Department is investigating his son. And Khanna is not getting drummed out of the party and being called by Biden a traitor.
Ro Khama, Matt Taibbi, and Elon Musk are the only ones coming out of this looking like they care about societal norms of free expression.
Obviously some of the sordid details give a lot of excuses to avert the eyes, but the core of the story is about a politician using his deeply flawed drug addicted son a a bagman.
That is why the story was suppressed.
The fact it was still suppressed after the revelations of Hunter getting paid a million dollars a year with no experience, and Joe Biden admitting he intervened to get the Ukraine prosecutor fired who had jurisdiction in the case is mind boggling.
I’ve certainly heard excuses for his intervention, but really their isn’t an ethical justification for a VP to intervene to fire a foreign official who is investigating a close family member and his paymaster.
I don't doubt that's the story you'd like to read, but I await a scintilla of evidence it's true.
You mean other than enforcing Obama administration and its European allies' policy of rooting out Ukrainian corruption? A policy MAGA Republicans can't get enough of until this story comes up?
Its pretty basic, if it's Obama administration policy to pick and choose prosecutors investigating corruption in Ukraine, then don't have the official who who's son is getting paid a million a year by the most corrupt oligarch in Ukraine deliver the message by threatening to withhold a billion dollars in aid.
The ambassador could have delivered the message, an undersecretary of state, a treasury official, a congressional delegation.
I can think of a hundred people where it would raise fewer ethical red flags, than the only official in the US government whose son was getting a million dollars from the Ukrainians.
What is the red flag?
Allowing you to create a conspiracy theory is not really an ethical lapse.
I suppose you must be colorblind.
Cute, but you don't get to spin out a whole unsupported theory and then go back and say the real issue is other people not preemptively making decisions to keep you from doing that.
It's extremely clear that if it weren't this, it'd be something else.
The frustration that Joe Biden is boring is strong around here.
Kazinski : “The ambassador could have delivered the message, an undersecretary of state, a treasury official, a congressional delegation”
There’s never-ending entertainment in right-wing ignorance.
1. The ambassador did. In a 2015 speech in Odessa, U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt criticized Shokin as corrupt.
2. Congressional leaders did : A bipartisan group of Senators Senators wrote a letter in 2016 demanding the reform of Shokin’s office. One of the signees was Ron Johnson (R-Wis.)
In an interview three years later, he described the letter thus: “The whole world, by the way, including the Ukranian caucus, which I signed the letter, the whole world felt that this that Sholkin wasn’t doing a [good] enough job. So we were saying hey you’ve … got to rid yourself of corruption.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/464302-gop-senator-says-he-doesnt-remember-signing-2016-letter-urging-reform-of/
3. The State Department also did its part. In late 2015, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland said this while testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee:
“the Prosecutor General’s Office (PGO) has to be reinvented as an institution that serves the citizens of Ukraine, rather than ripping them off.” She continued, “That means it must investigate and successfully prosecute corruption and asset recovery cases, including locking up dirty personnel in the PGO itself.”
Other entities demanding Shokin’s ouster were the EU, World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and European Bank of Reconstruction & Development. Every anti-corruption organization inside Ukraine demanded his firing. There were street protests in Kyiv against Shokin alone. The Kyiv Post called him one of the most hated men in the country.
Wanna embarrass yourself any more on this topic, Kazinski?
You seem so sad that normal people don't believe your shared hallucination. Tragic!
'societal norms of free expression.'
Publishing stolen nude images of a political opponent's son is a societal norm of free expression?
Sigh. Once more:
1) The VP was the messenger, not the decisionmaker.
2) The foreign official wasn't investigating a close family member. That's just a complete fabrication on every level. He wasn't even claiming to be doing that. Shokin was supposed to be investigating Burisma. Not Biden.
3) The foreign official wasn't investigating his [employer]. That was why the whole western world wanted him fired. Not to prevent him from investigating Hunter Biden.
I only have a minute, but wanted to point out that courts have held non-governmental employees can become agents for the State in some circumstances. This has been applied in Fourth Amendment search and seizure cases and, occasionally, in Fifth Amendment right-to-silence cases. A jailhouse snitch might become a police agent if police too specifically direct him or her (along with other factors).
I also ran into an article discussing this issue from a First Amendment perspective. I only had time to glance at it. https://www.nyclu.org/en/publications/column-applying-constitution-private-actors-new-york-law-journal
Most of the readership is familiar with the state actor doctrine, including its various strengths and weaknesses. For example, your article cites recent cases where that theory were successful but points out that only using the police to enforce a private entity’s decision allowed them to succeed. Otherwise, the requirement is that “the government have played a significant role in the specific policy or action at issue.”
That being said, an awful lot of people here conflate the question of whether Twitter violated the First Amendment with the question of whether they and the government and the Biden campaign did what was right.
WAS THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION A FRAUD? NO. WAS IT FAIR? ALSO, NO.
With the release of the Twitter Files, there can now be no more dispute about whether the 2020 Presidential election was unfairly influenced by a collusion of the security state, big tech, and big media. It’s no use arguing the point, the evil perpetrators themselves bragged about it in a Time magazine article right after the election! The Twitter Files just confirms what they’ve already admitted.
But it did not defraud the election. Committing fraud is a lot harder to do, and is a much more serious matter — a felony crime, in fact. Being unfair just earns you enemies. Being a fraud earns you jail time.
This is a distinction my Trump-supporting friends really need to understand. They made all sorts of accusations of fraud, but utterly failed to make any of them stick, with but ONE exception as I recall. A big part of that failure was they didn’t even present their cases at the right time, so they couldn’t even get in the door, so to speak. That’s the flip side of the seriousness of the laws against fraud. Accusations are serious, and it takes some serious following of the rules to prove them.
What’s really discouraging about this turn of events is that, for once, public sentiment is probably on the side of the Trump supporters. They got shafted. They were unfairly treated. Important stories were suppressed and even entire news organizations were silenced.
They have SUCH a strong case to make in the court of public opinion. But instead, Trump has made this all about himself. Now he says forget the system and all its rules, guidelines and protections, let’s just throw it all to the wind and Elect Me.
Bah. These people don’t know how to win. Sorry, my Republican friends, but in my opinion your leaders haven’t a clue how to turn this to your advantage, and you would really, truly do so much better to let the new conservatives lead your train.
There are more ways of cheating in an election than casting fraudulent votes.
But it all became irrelevant after the EC voted.
Do you think Mark Meadows should go to jail?
Is trying to get Twitter to splash stolen nude images of your opponent's son a form of cheating?
Nothing was "stolen" (or hacked). Lies don't help you.
Sure as ducks has wings those images and e-mails were hacked.
Again, lies do not help.
They certainly didn't help push this laptop story, eh?
Nige, if the Dems *had* drunken images of a Trump child molesting minors, I can assure you that they would have been widely distributed.
Notwithstanding the Kiddie Porn laws -- which is what Twitter OUGHT TO have gone with....
Blocking any discussion of the laptop on the basis of kiddie porn laws would NOT have had the effect they wanted, though.
Well, exactly. So far, there is no evidence of any child-pornography material related to Hunter Biden.
It's something of a catch 22, in that kiddie porn is something of a strict liability offense. So nobody outside the government can safely provide such evidence, and the guy's dad currently controls the executive branch.
But in all honestly, the repairman says he's seen none, so that's one felony eliminated, a half dozen remaining.
Chinese bot accounts were putting up the Hunter Biden nudes on Twitter before the election, presumably they wouldn't have balked at putting up child pornogrphy if they had it. God, the sleaze of it is vile, accusing someone of child molestation with no evidence whatsoever other than internet rumour.
nobody outside the government can safely provide such evidence, and the guy’s dad currently controls the executive branch.
I don't know how reporting child porn works, but I don't think you need to literally send the child porn over to start a case going.
I also think it's quite...you, to think that everyone in the DoJ is so afraid of Biden they are unwilling to start an action on this explosive piece of information.
If anyone had images of someone molesting children they should first of all turn them over to law enforcement, then they can shout about them from the rooftops. None of that happened.
Sure: there's also preventing legitimate votes from being cast.
'the 2020 Presidential election was unfairly influenced by a collusion of the security state, big tech, and big media'
The President's effort at an October Surprise was a complete dud, and sleazy and corrupt into the bargain. The 'twitter files' show only the process of humans making ad hoc decisions in reaction to an incredibly dodgy and nasty bit of Republican ratfucking.
It’s as if DaveM and his ilk forget that every single fact/allegation off the laptop was the topic of dozens upon dozens of news stories - blanketing the internet, newspapers, radio and TV.
Every. Single. Fact.
Why do you think we’re seeing all the bullshit about (non-existent) kiddie porn above? Its the because the laptop was an absolute Nothing, that was still covered relentlessly by the media, nothingness notwithstanding.
Kiddie porn fantasies aside, you wanna ask the Bretts and the DaveMs this: What on the laptop wasn’t the subject of dozens of news reports before Election Day?
Speaking of "admitted," admit it: you didn't read the Time magazine article. It says the opposite of what you claim.
Also, just to be clear, there is nothing "unfair" about private individuals favoring one side or the other in the election. The GOP position for fifty years has been that restrictions on individuals or companies supporting candidates are not just illegitimate, but actually unconstitutional. There's nothing "unfair" about Hannity being an arm of the Trump campaign. It may be unseemly, but it doesn't render the election problematic.
Am I right in thinking these files - which contain third party communications, and which have exposed ex and current twitter staff for harassment and abuse - have not actually been released outside of what is shown on Taibbi's thread?
Various news outlets have asked to see the raw material, but so far that access has been denied.
It's the same playbook as when the laptop story first broke - reporters asked for access to the raw data and Gulliani refused to allow it, which was why most news outlets treated it skeptically - only the NY Post was lax enough in its editorial standards to give it prominent coverage based on cherry-picked evidence.
Literally thousands of articles on this stupid laptop published weeks before the election… and yet, How many of you believe “70% of voters would have gone the other way” if they’d seen hunter biden dick picks on twitter? DJTjr said that the other day.
Of those who agree how many also agree with this statement: “A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution”?
70%? The figures i've seen say 16%. No need to inflate the number.
Twitter knew they had the pics of Hunter Biden's hog.
They knew the public wanted to see it.
And yet they suppressed our access to the hog.
This country cannot be free, until the Hunter hog pics are free for all to see.
What is your take on the Kiddie Porn laws?
It is rumored that many of these pictures involve sexually compromised minors. Although some CongressCritter entered the entire image into the Congressional Record and what does THAT do to an otherwise illegal (Kiddie porn) image?
Any criminal lawyers wish to comment?
This kind of attempt to distract from The People's Hog is shameful.
Answer me now: are you in the pay of the anti-Hog forces?
It is rumored that Dr. Ed 2 has sex with goats on a routine basis.
I've heard that rumor too! So it must be true.
And according to Wikipedia, "Billy goats urinate on themselves to attract" sexual partners like Dr. Ed, "and to make them know that the male goat is ready to mate."
Holy Hunter Hog, what a scoop!
I'ma call the Congressional Record Office right now, to make sure Musk doesn't find some way to censor this away.
Well, well, well. Very interesting.
Musk fires Twitter lawyer who blocked Hunter Biden laptop story
"Twitter owner Elon Musk on Tuesday fired the company’s deputy general counsel and vice president James Baker, who helped suppress a story about incriminating material found on Hunter Biden’s laptop computer weeks before the 2020 presidential election.
Mr. Baker, who previously had been the FBI‘s general counsel, had played a role in spreading the Steele dossier’s bogus claims of Trump-Russia ties, which made his efforts to suppress potential dirt on Democrat Joseph R. Biden look especially galling to conservatives and free-speech advocates.
“In light of concerns about Baker’s possible role in suppression of information important to the public dialogue, he was exited from Twitter today,” Mr. Musk wrote in a tweet on Tuesday.
...
Independent journalist Bari Weiss was slated to publish another Twitter thread about additional internal censorship decisions made by Twitter executives before Mr. Musk’s takeover, but the process ground to a halt when she discovered Mr. Baker was vetting the emails first, before sending them to her.
“‘My jaw hit the floor,’ says Weiss,” Mr. Taibbi tweeted Tuesday."
Apparently he was making sure none of the really incriminating ones made it to the journalists tasked with releasing them. The next tranche promise to be very entertaining...
He didn't block the story, though. Here is his comment:
I support the conclusion that we need more facts to assess whether the materials were hacked. At this stage, however, it is reasonable for us to assume that they may have been and that caution is warranted. There are some facts that indicate that the materials may have been hacked, while there are others indicating that the computer was either abandoned and/or the owner consented to allow the repair shop to access it for at least some purposes. We simply need more information.
Sorry, Brett, your conspiracy is not here.
Sorry, Sarcastr0, that's just the BS party line the people doing the censorship came up with to defend what they'd done.
And here it turns out that one of the chief censors, who was also involved with promoting the Steele dossier, had inserted himself into the process of exposing what, among others, HE had done, to curate the evidence.
He got his ass fired for good reason.
Yes, we're at the point where due diligence and caution about sources and accepting politically-motivated narratives is censorship. Twitter was never great, but there's a reason it's been a fun place to hang around where otherwise silenced or obscured voices could be elevated and amplified and parler and gab are not. That cannot be tolerated any more, it seems.
You can tell yourself all the stories you want about "due diligence", but this was the guy responsible for using the Steele dossier as the basis for an investigation after due diligence had revealed it was a steaming heap. He's nothing more than a partisan hack.
I generally like Musk, but he's revealed a weakness Trump shows in spades: Failing to realize just how scummy the swamp really is, leading to not being aggressive enough about firing strategically located alligators on the pumping crew. With his CV, Baker never should have been retained in the new Twitter, he got caught doing exactly what you'd expect somebody with his track record to do.
Wow, that's yet another story you've managed to completely internalise as unassailably and factually true, and the rest is paranoid nonsense you use to explain why those factually true stories never seem to have any actual independent existence out in the real world.
Yeah, I like the phrase "got caught." He "got caught" doing his job!
Brett, he was deputy general counsel, not 'one of the chief censors.'
Do you have any issues with his advice here?
The big deal is apparently Musk didn't know who his deputy GC was.
this was the guy responsible for using the Steele dossier as the basis for an investigation after due diligence had revealed it was a steaming heap
Yes, he was GC at the FBI. Lots of stuff went through him. But no, he was not 'responsible' for any of the policy decisions over there.
You're reading some bullshit, and regurgitating it uncritically. Because it's too good to check. Whenever that's true, you should check!
that’s just the BS party line the people doing the censorship came up with to defend what they’d done.
Have you *any evidence for this at all* or is this out of your ass?
Because this looks like anodyne legal advice to me, and I have no reason to suspect otherwise.
As to your story about the Steele dossier, do you have any evidence that he inserted himself in the process, or just something you heard in The Federalist?
A few points.
Like any publisher, Twitter was legally free to decide at pleasure what to publish and what to reject. There is nothing scandalous in that. No publisher is obligated to publish anything it judges unworthy of its own endorsement. Any publisher is free to decide that question by its own lights, for its own purposes, however motivated.
At the time the scandal was brewing, the laptop story seemed unreliably sourced. The sourcing could not be pinned down and vetted. Twitter would have had reason on that basis alone to withhold publication. Whether the alleged content, whatever it might have been, was hacked, is completely irrelevant. Unreliable provenance is decisively relevant.
The October Surprise question has vexed journalists at least as far back as the 1970s, and probably much longer. Given customary journalistic precautions (about withholding publication of late-breaking scandals just prior to an election), Twitter would have been justified on that basis alone to withhold the laptop story, and should have done what it did do.
As far as I can see, the story still isn't sufficiently sourced to warrant publication. Nor have I seen any allegation that this shapeless public mish-mash contains specific material particularly worth publishing, even if reliable-looking sources could be confirmed.
There is no scandal. There is only frustration from internet utopians. They suppose they have been denied license to publish world-wide anything they please, true or false, for whatever purpose, at no cost, without prior editing, using other peoples' resources to accomplish publication. That amounts to a preposterous string of outlandish demands. Frustrated that their demands have not been met, the utopians goad themselves to outrage.
That is not only bad behavior, but also foolish to expect. It could never happen. If they were abused that way, the means to accomplish publication would be stressed beyond repair. That is what makes the ambition to do it self-defeating, stupid, and utopian.
However, I have watched patiently for years, hoping to discern any slight sign that internet utopians can come to their senses, notice that one frustration follows another, and begin to think otherwise. So far, no luck. Thus, it will take a yet-longer period of continued frustration before the utopians give up.
What they demand is impossible to arrange. The utopians do not face reluctance to give them what they want. That is the lesson they must learn by trying and failing. They face the impossibility of making it work.
As the scandal unfolds, you can keep repeating, over and over, "there is no scandal". At least until you join the rest of the MSM in repeating "Old news!".
Yes, Twitter was legally entitled, under current interpretations of Section 230, to block whatever user content they want. That doesn't mean their reasons for wanting to block it can't be, as here, scandalous.
As the scandal unfolds we can watch you guys tell yourselves stories and act as if there are things there that clearly are not, but there is literally nothing new about seeing that process occur yet again.
Brett, you *regularly* find scandal where no one else does. Not just no one on the left, no one at all.
So calling other people out for ignoring scandals is pretty rich, coming from you.
Like any publisher, Twitter was legally free to decide at pleasure what to publish and what to reject.
This is actually the fundamental problem with what we call social media. Prior to the advent of the internet, a publisher was unquestionably someone with complete control prior to the creation and distribution of what was published. Printed media, audio or video recordings, sheet music, and so on was all "published" in this way. With broadcast media (TV, radio, and later subscription services like cable and satellite TV), there is almost complete editorial control. Even with live broadcasts, the channel or station can decide in advance if it wants to broadcast that event and take the chance that someone might say or do something they wouldn't like live on air.
But we are talking here about services that host user-generated content in a way that the user gets to post it for distribution without prior approval or the platform's editorial control. Added to that is that the sheer number of users and amount of content created makes full editorial control not feasible anyway. Content moderation will always be after the fact and content will often not be moderated at all until someone complains about it. Software can automate some moderation, but not all of it. And automating it carries its own problem of erroneously blocking content.
This all looks to me like nothing that has previously existed. At least, there is nothing closely analogous enough to use it as precedent for how to deal with the legal, constitutional, and ethical issues social media presents.
As I see it, what we are debating here is how to handle this almost completely new thing, and our existing ideas about the boundaries of free speech and the press won't get us all the way to an answer.
There is no scandal. There is only frustration from internet utopians. They suppose they have been denied license to publish world-wide anything they please, true or false, for whatever purpose, at no cost, without prior editing, using other peoples’ resources to accomplish publication. That amounts to a preposterous string of outlandish demands.
This is a good contribution to the debate I am talking about. What is at stake in this controversy and others like it is whether users of social media platforms should expect to be able to post whatever they want on platforms owned and operated by someone else. I think that when put that way, the only reasonable answer is no. The standard reply is an argument that these social media companies are so huge and their platforms used by such a large portion of the population as to make them monopolies, so these platforms must be treated as no more than conduits for the user’s free speech.
But that argument doesn’t hold up. No social media platform is so pervasive as to be the only method of communicating in that manner or scale. None is a monopoly in the usual definition of the word, as none is so secure in its market as to be immune to competition. Facebook and Twitter (even before Musk bought it), as well as YouTube (Alphabet/Google), will have their challenges maintaining their place and keeping themselves viable as businesses long term. People, especially the younger people prized for their eyeballs by advertisers, can and have switched to the newest thing remarkably quickly.
Most of all, each platform has to maintain an environment that attracts users. It isn’t even just about their own freedom of speech as to what to allow on their services, but also about remaining successful as businesses. Some users might be happy with a 4chan kind of free-for-all (not that I’ve ever looked at 4chan to really know more about it than its reputation). But a larger portion of users probably want at least some content moderation beyond the bare minimum of illegal content (threats, defamation, child porn, and so on). What would people that want social media forced to allow their politics to have free reign say if that lack of moderation caused user numbers to drop to the point where the service would lose money and possibly even fold?
There is no scandal. There is only frustration from internet utopians. They suppose they have been denied license to publish world-wide anything they please, true or false, for whatever purpose, at no cost, without prior editing, using other peoples’ resources to accomplish publication. That amounts to a preposterous string of outlandish demands.
This in fact already exists, and has since the early days of the Internet (we’re talking 80s, maybe even 70s… well before Section 230). It’s called Usenet and it sucks for all the reasons you might imagine. As an easy way to see what’s going on there, Google set up Google Groups to work as a portal to Usenet’s “Newsgroups” — here for example is alt.politics.libertarian:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.politics.libertarian
Pretty dire! It’s mostly abandoned these days because it’s so toxic.
So really, Stephen’s list of demands needs another clause, rendering it even more outlandish:
They suppose they have been denied license to co-opt any existing, successful, moderated platform and change its moderation rules to allow them to leverage its popularity to publish world-wide anything they please, true or false, for whatever purpose, at no cost, without prior editing, using other peoples’ resources to accomplish publication.
The scale is new, but public bulletin boards (I mean, physical cork boards, not electronic messaging systems) are not new, and they work on the same principle.
I haven't shopped at supermarkets for years (even before COVID, we got groceries delivered), but when I used to go, they all had at the front of the store a board where you could post fliers for lost kittens or piano lessons or tryouts for little league or whatever. The store did not vet the fliers before they were posted. But I guarantee that if you posted something objectionable, the store would take it down after the fact, when they found out about it.
A bulletin board is a closer analogy than most, but still isn’t the same thing.
On a bulletin board like you describe, everything posted has equal prominence. Not true for the kind of social media being discussed. They have algorithms to feed users things that they might be interested in.
For a bulletin board, it is just placed so that people walking by for other purposes might happen to catch it and become interested. Users of social media platforms go there specifically to engage with what is posted. They can even choose to ‘follow’ certain people’s posts, ‘like’ them to express support, and ‘share’ them with other users. Each of those types of engagement with a post will affect how the algorithms will place a post in other users’ feeds.
However, one aspect of the bulletin board analogy is relevant, which is that the bulletin board is on someone’s private property. This is the part that is most important as well. Those that think that conservative viewpoints are being censored want someone else's private property to become their platform for whatever they want to say. It is like Randal's modification of Stephen Lathrop's comment. They also only want to use that private property because it has become successful at reaching large numbers of people.
I'm not sure why the algorithm issue is a material distinction, but it's not really accurate anyway. Everything on a physical bulletin board doesn't have equal prominence. Some things are at eye level; some are not. Some fliers overlap with other fliers, obscuring the ones behind them.
How many posts about it do we need before other topics are permitted?
I also haven't yet seen any posts on the newest example of Justice Thomas dissenting in a case involving investigations into Jan. 6 that would be likely to include his wife's actions. This was the shadow docket appeal from Arizona GOP leader to block access to her phone records.
There was a post already. Did you not see it?
Yup. And in case you were wondering, the post was opposed to terminating the Constitution.
It’s literally two posts below this one.
It's been the Biden administration since January 20th, 2021. Before that it was the Biden campaign.
But one of the dysfunctional things about the US is that the permanent bureaucracy works for the Democrats regardless of whether the Republicans are nominally in charge. DC is a Democratic company town, and has been for decades now. These days the bureaucrats barely even pretend to work for the Republicans when they hold the White House.
What Brett said,
In addition, it should be strongly considered that when Twitter gives the Biden Campaign something of value, without declaring it, it is an "in kind" donation and violates campaign finance law.
You should consider why we have such campaign finance laws....
Now, I can't agree with you there. The 1st amendment absolutely trumps campaign finance laws.
It's a problem, but it's not one campaign finance laws can constitutionally address.
The actual solution would be for conservatives to get off their lazy asses and create a parallel conservative media ecosystem with the same reach as the left-wing MSM. Instead of just whining about media bias.
When I was growing up, virtually every city had a liberal and a conservative newspaper. Somehow, when the internet broke the newspaper publishing model, only the liberal papers and outlets survived.
I saw it in Detroit, where the Detroit News and Detroit Free Press, (Conservative and liberal, respectively.) had a healthy competition, and each of them kept the other honest, by covering any parts of the story the other omitted for ideological reasons.
Then the Free Press fell on hard times, and we got the Joint Operating Agreement, where the Pulitzer winning Detroit News, and the failing Detroit Free Press, would combine operations, printing and delivery, but still exist as separate papers. Theoretically.
What actually happened was that, somehow, the Free Press ended up in charge of the actual news gathering function, and the Detroit News ended up little more than an edition of the Free Press with a separate editorial page and different selection of comics. And then, God knows why, the News fired their Pulitzer winning editor in favor of a centrist squish who usually agreed with the Free Press take on things.
And Detroit no longer had a conservative paper at all.
Replicate this a hundred times over, and US media ended up a left-wing mono-culture. And damnably, the right watched it happen and didn't lift a finger to stop it.
Papers in America started out as propaganda sheets for political parties, that also published news to attract readers. We're back to that, only somehow, only one of the parties has their propaganda sheets anymore.
The only solution is for the right to do the hard work of creating its own outlets.
Of course in the modern context conservatives have no less than three of their own social media sites, and they want Twitter turned into one as well.
'the permanent bureaucracy works for the Democrats'
It works for the country and the people, it's telling on yourself that you think this aligns more with the Democrats than the Republicans.
Brett has no proof civil servants act is a primarily partisan capacity, but he can't seem to imagine otherwise.
Yeah, I'm on one of them, too. All three came under heavy attack as they were created.
But having three social media sites is barely a start. It's not just FB they need to compete with. They need to compete on the level of TV networks and major daily newspapers, too. And they could have! How many major publications, like Time, went on the auction block, and could have been had for a song? Lots of them. The right let the left capture them all.
The institutional GOP LIKES being the minority party. You get almost as much graft, and it's much less work. And you don't have to deal with irate voters asking you why you're not doing all the stuff you ran on doing; Being in the minority is a ready made excuse for being ineffectual!
The GOP establishment LIKE playing the Washington Generals to the Democrats' Globetrotters. We don't have a two party system at the federal level, we've got a 1.5 party system, really.
Federal Employees Donate $1.8M in Presidential Race, Mostly to Biden
"Federal employees have donated at least $1.8 million to the major candidates for president in 2020, with nearly 60% of that total going to former Vice President Joe Biden.
Since the start of 2019, Biden has raised $1.06 million and Trump has raised about $743,000 from federal workers at cabinet-level agencies, according to data from the Federal Election Commission and compiled by Government Executive. That marks a significant change from 2016, when 95% of federal employee donations went to Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.
Trump’s donations overwhelmingly came from the two largest departments in the federal government: Defense and Homeland Security, which made up 58% of his federal workforce contributions. By contrast, Defense and DHS employee donations made up just 24% of Biden’s total haul. Some labor groups at DHS, including the council representing Border Patrol workers, have endorsed Trump and fervently supported his presidency. Trump has frequently touted the support he holds among the law enforcement community writ large.
Labor Department workers donated most overwhelmingly to Biden, with 91% of their total dollars going to the Democratic nominee. That was followed by the Justice Department at 85%, the Education Department at 84% and the State Department. Trump’s top donating agencies were DHS at 65% of contributed dollars, Defense at 63% and the Energy Department at 48%. Biden also held only a narrow advantage from employees at the departments of Commerce and Agriculture. "
You really think the FBI doesn't work for the Democrats even when a Republican controls the White house, with numbers like that?
The fact that you think donation choices proves 'civil servants act is a primarily partisan capacity' shows how right I am about you.
The new call of the right: Being unpopular is an attack, so lets vote Trump!
Conservative news sites and pundits regularly fill the top slots of Facebook engagement - it's very conservative-friendly.
TV and newspapers are owned by billionaires, most of whom support conservatives, it's just that they can't competely fill them with conservative propaganda or nobody will buy them or watch them.
The GOP doesn't so much like being the minority party, they like minority rule, as Trump demanding the termination of the Constitution perfectly illustrates.
The GOP establishment LIKE playing the Washington Generals to the Democrats’ Globetrotters
Ahh yes, the controlled opposition trope. I see this from leftists as well.
It's the manifestation of fringey armchair geniuses who think it so obvious their fringy policies would win the day that the only explanation is their associated party is sandbagging.
It's actually, clearly wrong if you talk to anyone involved in political campaigns or legislative offices. But these fringy types are too pure to ever get near to either.
Also, by Brett's logic the DOD and DHS are actually just instruments of the Republican party since their donations skew towards Republicans. So when Trump says we should suspend the Constitution, maybe we really should be scared since apparently the people that have all the guns are supposedly just political hacks that will look out for the interests of their party overlords rather than doing the right thing for the country.
It’s certainly supportive evidence, you must admit. The fact that you can’t admit that illustrates why I hold my opinion of you, in turn.
When an organization comes to be dominated by people who share political opinions, you have to expect those opinions to bleed over into organizational decisions, because there’s really no push back against doing so.
Note that Biden was getting 60% of the over-all donations even after Trump had been President for years. In 2016? Clinton got 95% of all donations.
This is similar to university faculties that somehow end up with 50-1 ratios of Democrats to Republicans, and you'll insist there's no political bias causing or caused by that.
Did not know that about DoD and DHS, but not surprised.
Yes, it was in opposition to terminating the constitution.
And about half the comments were critical of it, either supporting or excusing the candidate who advocates terminating the constitution.
Nobody will admit that Brett because who/what politician/cause civil servants choose to donate their money to is only supportive evidence of partisan hackery if there’s actually evidence that civil servants act in expressly partisan manners. Which, of course, you have no such evidence. So what you are actually saying is CS donation patterns are supportive evidence of your speculative bullshit.