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On Justice Thomas, Dobbs, Precedent, and Substantive Due Process
In his Dobbs concurrence, the senior associate justice reiterates his outlying views on precedent and his belief that all substantive due process decisions were "demonstrably erroneous."
The concurring opinion by Justice Clarence Thomas in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization is certainly turning heads. In that solo opinion, Justice Thomas calls for revisiting all of the Supreme Court's prior decisions holding that unenumerated rights are protected by substantive due process. It is a striking opinion, but it is also not anything new.
Justice Thomas wrote separately in Dobbs to reiterate two positions he has long held: 1) There are no substantive, unenumerated rights protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment; and 2) the Supreme Court should reconsider and overturn any prior constitutional decision that is "demonstrably erroneous." These are positions Justice Thomas has expressed before and, as before, these are positions that his colleagues on the Court have refused to embrace.
First, on the Due Process Clause, Justice Thomas has long argued (consistent with much academic commentary) that insofar as the Fourteenth Amendment incorporates enumerated rights against the states and protects unenumerated rights, this work is done by the Privileges or Immunities Clause, and not the Due Process Clause. From his Dobbs concurrence:
Considerable historical evidence indicates that "due process of law" merely required executive and judicial actors to comply with legislative enactments and the common law when depriving a person of life, liberty, or property. See, e.g., Johnson v. United States, 576 U. S. 591, 623 (2015) (THOMAS, J., concurring in judgment). Other sources, by contrast, suggest that "due process of law" prohibited legislatures "from authorizing the deprivation of a person's life, liberty, or property without providing him the customary procedures to which freemen were entitled by the old law of England." United States v. Vaello Madero, 596 U. S. ___, ____ (2022) (THOMAS, J., concurring) (slip op., at 3) (internal quotation marks omitted). Either way, the Due Process Clause at most guarantees process. It does not, as the Court's substantive due process cases suppose, "forbi[d] the government to infringe certain 'fundamental' liberty interests at all, no matter what process is provided." Reno v. Flores, 507 U. S. 292, 302 (1993); see also, e.g., Collins v. Harker Heights, 503 U. S. 115, 125 (1992).
As I have previously explained, "substantive due process" is an oxymoron that "lack[s] any basis in the Constitution." Johnson, 576 U. S., at 607–608 (opinion of THOMAS, J.); see also, e.g., Vaello Madero, 596 U. S., at ___ (THOMAS, J., concurring) (slip op., at 3) ("[T]ext and history provide little support for modern substantive due process doctrine"). "The notion that a constitutional provision that guarantees only 'process' before a person is deprived of life, liberty, or property could define the substance of those rights strains credulity for even the most casual user of words." McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U. S. 742, 811 (2010) (THOMAS, J., concurring in part and concurring in judgment); see also United States v. Carlton, 512 U. S. 26, 40 (1994) (Scalia, J., concurring in judgment). The resolution of this case is thus straightforward. Because the Due Process Clause does not secure any substantive rights, it does not secure a right to abortion.
As the repeated citations to his own prior opinions indicate, this is not a new view, and Justice Thomas did not say anything about substantive due process in Dobbs that he had not said before. (He also reiterated that some unenumerated rights may be protected by the Fourteenth Amendment's Privileges or Immunities Clause, while also reiterating his view that the right to terminate a pregnancy would not be among any such rights.)
Second, on precedent, Justice Thomas reiterates his long-held view that the Supreme Court should overturn any "demonstrably erroneous" constitutional decision, and that overturning prior precedent does not require consideration of the other stare decisis factors identified by the Court's majority opinion (or in Justice Kavanaugh's concurrence). Here is what Thomas said in Dobbs:
Because any substantive due process decision is "demonstrably erroneous," Ramos v. Louisiana, 590 U. S. ___, ___ (2020) (THOMAS, J., concurring in judgment) (slip op., at 7), we have a duty to "correct the error" established in those precedents, Gamble v. United States, 587 U. S. ___, ___ (2019) (THOMAS, J., concurring) (slip op., at 9).
For a fuller explication of his view of precedent, it is worth looking at Justice Thomas's concurring opinion in Gamble v. United States, where he made clear his disagreement with the Court's current approach to stare decisis.
In my view, the Court's typical formulation of the stare decisis standard does not comport with our judicial duty under Article III because it elevates demonstrably erroneous decisions—meaning decisions outside the realm of permissible interpretation—over the text of the Constitution and other duly enacted federal law. It is always "tempting for judges to confuse our own preferences with the requirements of the law," Obergefell v. Hodges, 576 U. S. ___, ___ (2015) (ROBERTS, C. J., dissenting) (slip op., at 3), and the Court's stare decisis doctrine exacerbates that temptation by giving the veneer of respectability to our continued application of demonstrably incorrect precedents. By applying demonstrably erroneous precedent instead of the relevant law's text—as the Court is particularly prone to do when expanding federal power or crafting new individual rights—the Court exercises "force" and "will," two attributes the People did not give it. The Federalist No. 78, p. 465 (C. Rossiter ed. 1961) (capitalization omitted).
Justice Thomas went on in Gamble to explain why he believes this approach in constitutional cases is compelled by the nature of the federal judicial power and the text of the Constitution. In short, he argued that a judge's duty in a constitutional case is different from the judge's duty in the common law context.
Given that the primary role of federal courts today is to interpret legal texts with ascertainable meanings, precedent plays a different role in our exercise of the "judicial Power" than it did at common law. In my view, if the Court encounters a decision that is demonstrably erroneous—i.e., one that is not a permissible interpretation of the text—the Court should correct the error, regardless of whether other factors support overruling the precedent. Federal courts may (but need not) adhere to an incorrect decision as precedent, but only when traditional tools of legal interpretation show that the earlier decision adopted a textually permissible interpretation of the law. A demonstrably incorrect judicial decision, by contrast, is tantamount to making law, and adhering to it both disregards the supremacy of the Constitution and perpetuates a usurpation of the legislative power.
And he concludes:
Our judicial duty to interpret the law requires adherence to the original meaning of the text. For that reason, we should not invoke stare decisis to uphold precedents that are demonstrably erroneous.
Of note, Justice Thomas wrote for himself in Gamble, just as he wrote for himself in Dobbs. Whatever sympathy some other justices may have for Justice Thomas's views of substantive due process, there is no indication that any of his colleagues share his view on stare decisis. Indeed, both Justice Alito's majority opinion, and the concurring opinion by Justice Kavanaugh, expressly embrace the multi-factor stare decisis that Justice Thomas has long rejected.
All the above helps explain why I do not believe Dobbs portends any threat to decisions such as Griswold, Lawrence, or Obergefell. Rather, I agree with my co-blogger Dale Carpenter's assessment as to why these other decisions recognizing fundamental rights protected by the Due Process Clause are unlikely to be reconsidered, let alone overturned. I do not believe there are four votes to accept certiorari in a case presenting such questions, let alone the five that would be necessary to overturn any of these cases.
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Thomas keeps saying things are “demonstrable” but never bothers to demonstrate.
"Substantive" is code for made up shit from Dred Scott. It does not exist.
You want substantive, scumbag, vile, toxic lawyer filth, revisit Marbury.
You might think that if you never read his concurrences. For example, in the Ramos v. Louisiana concurrence he cited, he spends a paragraph summarizing why "[d]ue process incorporation is a demonstrably erroneous interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment", with citations to previous concurrences that laid out his argument on the matter.
Thomas opinions are largely citing Thomas dissents and concurrences no one else joined as precedent.
So what ? The complaint was that he never demonstrates the "demonstrable" not that his past demonstrations ought to be repeated in full, in each opinion.
Whose complaint? I'm bolstering captcrisis's post - Thomas demonstrated by citing Thomas. That's just being circular, not demonstrating jack.
1. captcrisis's complaint was that Thomas never bothers to demonstrate.
2. Michael P said he did demonstrate, including "citations to previous concurrences that laid out his argument on the matter."
3. You objected that Thomas's citations were to his own previous opinions.
4. Which I explained was irrelevant to Michael P's point
5. Which was the point you were attempting to reply to.
Whether he cites himself or others has no bearing on whether the citations contain arguments or demonstrations supporting his point of view.
Lawyers need to cite data and real world experience.
Against your own will, you are admitting a coherence and widely-applicable wisdom to his opinions !!!
Try to do that with Kagan or Sotomayor or -- and she may be the worst of the lot --Ketanji
" As brought to light by Sen. Josh Hawley (R-MO), Jackson seems to have an unusual soft spot for—of all people—child pornographers. As a district court judge, Jackson consistently sentenced those caught up in the uniquely vile business of child pornography with lower sentences than the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines recommended. Just this week, The Washington Post reported how one scumbag pedophile Jackson sentenced to a staggeringly low three months—instead of the Guidelines' recommended eight years—has since reoffended."
Thanks for the reference to Ramos, but he doesn't demonstrate there either. He simply doesn't like the results SDP leads to, which include Dred Scott, but which also include Obergefell and Roe (and elsewhere, Lawrence v. Texas and Griswold).
In Ramos he only briefly says, “[t]he notion that a constitutional provision that guarantees only ‘process’ before a person is deprived of life, liberty, or property could define the substance of those rights strains credulity for even the most casual user of words.” This is a mischaracterization of what has been going on -- usually what is being protected is liberty. And the authority he cites for this proposition? A past dissent of his.
One might say he's an "original" thinker, but another word for this is "lazy". Kind of like Douglas in his later years, but the results of such a jurisprudence are suffering, not freedom.
So... When the Constitution guarantees "due process", your argument is that it really guarantees particular kinds of "liberty"? It seems to me that your are making Justice Thomas's argument for him.
...What do you think Thomas' argument is?
The Constitution is a federal document, not a State document, It has few and enumerated rights. Liberty is recognizing that. And that is the life work of CT
He explains that substantive due process is an oxymoron. Which it obviously is. Process is the means by which you reach an end. It is not a secret compendium of ends. Multiplication is not a number. It's something you do to numbers.
You do realize this is an opinion, but a demonstration.
A Justice is paid to have those, but don’t pretend they’re proving anything other than Thomas’ idiosyncratic take.
As C.J. Roberts outlines in his Dobbs concurrence, you just need 4 votes to hear the case on a given question. After cert is granted, the petitioner can expand the scope of the question and argue that prior cases must be overruled.
A central component of Roberts concurrence in Dobbs is that there were not 4 votes to accept certiorari on whether Roe and Casey should be overruled. Roberts accurately notes that the Petition for Cert (filed 6/15/2020) mentioned overruling Roe and Casey only as an aside in a footnote. Overruling those cases was not part of petitioner's argument in its original petition. On May 17, 2021, the Court granted the Petition for Certiorari "limited to Question 1 presented by the petition." Question 1 asks, "Whether all pre-viability prohibitions on elective abortions are unconstitutional." Between the filing date of the original Petition for Certiorari and the Court's decision to hear the case, petitioners filed two additional briefs, neither of which argued for overruling Roe or Casey.
Then, less than two months after the Court granted cert., petitioners filed a new brief (7/22/2021), in which, for the first time, it argued, "On a sound understanding of the Constitution, the answer to the question presented in this case is clear and the path to that answer is straight. Under the Constitution, may a State prohibit elective abortions before viability? Yes. Why? Because nothing in constitutional text, structure, history, or tradition supports a right to abortion. A prohibition on elective abortions is therefore constitutional if it satisfies the rational basis review that applies to all laws."
A skilled practitioner seeking to have the Court overrule prior substantive due process cases now has a blueprint for how to get their case granted without stating their actual intention in the Petition for Cert.
From the original Petition for Certiorari:
Judicial activism!
Seriously though, the petition probably said that because they thought it would be more likely cert would be granted than if they flat out asked the Court to overrule Roe.
Isn't it peculiar that Justice Thomas omits Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967), among substantive due process decisions that should be overruled? Does he regard substantive due process like affirmative action -- a really crappy idea for anyone whose first name is not Clarence or whose last name is not Thomas?
Loving was not decided under Substantive Due Process, but the Equal Protection Clause. So this would not be affected by the stance on that issue.
I have to say, I think Roberts was right on this point. I think judicial restraint required limiting the response to the cert question and changing existing law only as much as necessary. I think Mississippi’s gambit here should not have been rewarded.
I think the response to the concurrence, added in the final opinion, was weak. Sure, Roe and Casey called for viability as the dividing line and you would have to overrule them on those points to uphold the Mississippi law. But you wouldn’t have to overrule them completely. I think the majority was mistaken to claim that if you overrule any part of a precedent, you may as well overrule it entirely. It looks to me much like the (in my view very weak) anti-severability arguments used to claim that if any part of a law is found probablematic, the entire law must go.
Nor were the pragmatic arguments convincing. Sure, a case involving a 6-week or Day 1 limit would probably reach the court in only a year or two. Sure, there might be some confusion in the country in that period. But that’s no reason not to wait the year or two. If Casey proved anything, the court shouldn’t abandon judicial restraint norms for political consiserations like trying to settle a controversial issue.
Was responding to QuantumBoxCat’s comment, not sure how it ended up here.
The right to marry is not an enumerated right. The Court cited Equal Protection, but the thinking was SDP.
No, if the court cited equal protection then the thinking was equal protection.
The same is basically true of Obergefell. The court mentioned both SDP and equal protection in the decision, so if you somehow knock out the SDP leg the EP basis is still there and it ain’t going anywhere.
The right to marry is not an enumerated right.
Neither is the right to put penis into somewhere else than vagina.
Which precedent says that equal protection of the laws really means equally protection of only enumerated constitutional rights?
He just needs a bogieman to scare people with and this is what he chose.
If it includes equal protection of unenumerated rights, then what kind of point is Thomas making? What difference does it make if a right is vindicated under EP or under SDP?
Did you actually read the opinion? Because Thomas lays out exactly why he thinks it matters in pretty express terms.
Justice Thomas thinks "substantive due process" is a bogus idea, which is why he doesn't look to it for rights. He thinks the Due Process clauses in the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments are only about procedural due process, and that you have to look elsewhere -- particularly the P&I Clause -- to find the rights that are owed due process.
Justice O’Conner wrote a concurrence in Lawrence v. texas where she said general sodomy laws are constitutional and there is no Due Process right, but sodomy laws limited to same-sex behavior (like Texas’) violate Equal Protection and are unconstitutional.
I wonder if that opinion is going to gain traction. Although Robsrts dissented in Obergefelle, Gorsuch’s and Robert’s’ votes in Bostock suggest the Equal Protection argument might command a majority.
The Court cited Equal Protection, but the thinking was SDP.
Of course. Just as the Constitutional text has secret unwritten penumbrae, so do SCOTUS opinions. This makes stare decisis extra difficult as you have to follow covert precedents as well as overt ones. Who'd be a judge, eh ?
"Loving was not decided under Substantive Due Process, but the Equal Protection Clause. So this would not be affected by the stance on that issue."
Wrong. Loving was based on both equal protection and substantive due process guaranties:
388 U.S. 1, 12 (1967).
Because Loving itself already answered the question of whether another constitutional provision invalidated the anti--miscegenation law, its reconsideration is not warranted.
According to the "originalist" reasoning of Dobbs, the treatment of equal protection in Loving is suspect as well. Several states had anti-miscegenation statutes in 1868 when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, and the then-new constitutional amendment did not disturb those statutes. See, Pace v. Alabama, 106 U.S. 583 (1883).
There is nothing in the majority opinion in Dobbs suggesting that constitutional rights other than substantive due process are limited to those deeply rooted in history and tradition.
If you find it cathartic to tilt at strawmen, far be it from me to harsh your buzz. But don't expect it to accomplish much else.
Loving set out on the slippery slope. We got gays now. Next are bigamy, than marriage to pets. I want phyllim discrimination to end. I have been dating some bacteria. We are in love.
You mean phylum. If you were dating leaf insects, you might mean Phyllium.
You are lucky that I care enough today to correct.
No it is not!
No, since Loving was an equal protection case. (To be sure, it also relied on the due process clause, but courts decide cases, not arguments. Eliminating the SDP concept would have no effect on the decision in Loving.)
Or perhaps Clarence Thomas realized that, if not for Loving, he could have been subject to a low tech lynching.
That's about as good a response as I've ever seen to his unforgivable "high tech lynching" comment.
By saying that you admit a hostility to religious freedom and a dislike of Blacks (I suppose). That is, unless you want to cede all marriage matters to the Federal Government. Do you?
I am a Catholic and know that
Bothams' Almighty God created the Races completely overturns your premise
Perez v Lippold contradicts you in the same way I do : [ the lawyer arguing for the right of inter-racial couples to marry ] argued not only that the California anti-miscegenation law violated Perez and Davis’s Fourteenth Amendment rights (due process and equal protection) but also their First Amendment rights (free exercise of religion). Marshall grounded this part of his argument in Roman Catholic theology, which recognizes marriage as a sacrament, or means of grace. Thus, California’s denial of the couple’s right to marry was like the state telling them they could not take Communion or be baptized, both clear violations of the First Amendment.
The final Dobbs opinion was identical in substance to the draft, correcting only various typographical and citation errors, except for three multi-paragraph sections responding to the dissent and concurrence.
In the second of these sections, responding to the dissent on stare decisis, the final opinion seemed to provide considerably more leeway than the draft did on when the court could overrule a prior opinion. It brought up cases, for example the salute-the-flag cases where it overruled its precedent only 3 years later, and Brown v. Board of Education, where it said that surely the court wouldn’t have been required to wait half a century before overruling Pleasy v. Ferguson. It suggest that the court had historically, and could in the future, overrule a precedent solely because it thought it egregiously wrong.
I hadn’t noticed this section on my initial read. But as I read it, it seems to make it easier for the court to overrule other substantive Due Process precedents than the draft did. Therest of the opinion, as I read it, accepted that additional factors besides just being wrong were necessary and proceeded to explain why (in the opinion’s view) they were present.
Perhaps Justice Thomas, who joined the majority in full in addition to writing a concurrence, had some influence on this particular section.
Justice Alito in dictum in the majority opinion and Justice Kavanaugh in a concurrence wrote that decisions not affecting abortion will not be affected by Dobbs. I suspect that this will carry exactly as much weight as then-Judge Kavanaugh's confirmation hearing testimony that Roe v. Wade was settled law.
Justice Thomas's concurrence said the quiet part out loud. Thomas, joined by Alito, has suggested that Obergefell should be subordinated to religious liberty claims. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/19-926_5hdk.pdf Justice Bear It was then not on the Court. Justice Gorsuch, joined by Thomas and Alito, has ruled against same sex couples seeking to be listed as parents on their children's birth certificates. Pavan v. Smith, 582 U.S.____, 137 S. Ct. 2075 (2017).
Same sex marriage is plainly at risk before the current Supreme Court.
Whatever, you are guilty of contradicting yourself and of arguing in a racist manner.
If I say that homosexual acts are perverted you make that a religious objection. but if I say they are good you call that a non-religious objection. Just silly in the extreme.
The science says that children of same-sex parents have much worse lives than any other cohort.
Thomas: "I am right, and I have always been right, regardless of whether my opinion was in concurrence or dissent; and regardless of how many prior decisions have gone against me I will continue to dissent, because stare decisis means that I will stick to my earlier opinion, not that I have to stick to anyone else's"
Not very long ago, Justice Thomas made a public statement about people not being able to live with decisions that they didn't agree with. The man has been bitterly angry for 50 years! Legal orthodoxy & the sanctification of constitutional text works exactly like orthodox Christian parsing of Scripture. It allows you to ignore reality you don't care to acknowledge. The "conservative" justices continue to be very proud that their job & decisions have no relationship to the real world. And prove that textual/original philosophy is no barrier to just making stuff up to make things go your way. Three ultra-conservative, devout Catholics on the Supreme Court who have no problem voting their deeply held religious beliefs. All of the assurances about other privacy & personal liberty decisions that I keep hearing just make me more suspicious. There sure seems to be a climate at the Thomas household for wildly outside the mainstream thinking.
" All the above helps explain why I do not believe Dobbs portends any threat to decisions such as Griswold, Lawrence, or Obergefell. "
Did you also believe -- as a few senators apparently did -- that the handmaiden, the Federalist frat boy, and a few other clingers wouldn't scuttle Roe at the earliest practical opportunity?
I believe you misapprehend the degree to which disaffected Republicans and superstitious conservatives are on a Mission From God (and not the good kind) to try to send American back toward illusory good old days.
So the Rev, with no embarrassment, will tell us which is the good Misson from God and which, the bad. Isn't that interesting 🙂
Dale and Jonathan honestly "do not believe Dobbs portends any threat to decisions such as Griswold, Lawrence, or Obergefell." I respect their opinions but do not see how anyone can take any long-term comfort from them. Thirty years ago Casey declared Roe to be settled precedent. As of last week, both Casey and Roe are gone.
We now live in a world in which (a) a Republican-controlled Senate is never again going to approve a Supreme Court candidate nominated by a Democratic President; and (b) all Supreme Court justices are likely to follow the lead of Kennedy and Breyer -- timing their retirements to ensure that "their" party gets to pick their replacements. So two of the Court's conservative block would have to unexpectedly die at times when Democrats controlled the White House and the Senate before there would be a change in the Court's ideological balance.
In other words, unless lightening strikes twice, conservatives will still control the Court in 20 or 30 years. New justices added to the Court by Republicans will be Fed Soc approved jurists who will have regarded Thomas as a hero since they were in law school.
Dale says the future is an "unknown country." That may be true. But the safest bet is that any seeds Thomas plants in his dissents today will bear fruit as the Court continues its rightward march over the next decade or two.
You seem to disregard the prospect of Court enlargement, recess appointments, House enlargement (with it, the Electoral College), admission of states, and other measures by which America's betters -- who constitute the majority in this nation -- could address the issue of Republican exploitation of our system's structural amplification of obsolete, rural, minority voices and votes.
Does anyone genuinely believe the liberal-libertarian mainstream, victors on America's culture war, is not going to use its majority position to address in a practical manner the problems generated by bigoted, superstitious, stale-thinking, backwater, outnumbered conservatives?
Rev, did you ever go to law school?
Scotus (the supreme church of the united states) will rule this way for a while, about another generation or so. Changes to the size or duties of the court won't work because it will cause an equally destructive tit for tat.
And once structural amplification doesn't work for them is when any sort of majoritarianism or democracy (that remains) is likely to go, if they are lucky enough to have power when that time comes.
You discount the predictable demographic course (less bigoted, less rural, less religious, less White, etc.) that dooms Republicans and conservatives in modern, improving America.
The next time the (modern, reasoning, educated) majority overcomes the structural amplifications of minority voices in America, I expect a relatively strong course of ladder-pulling (merely diminishing the amplification of hayseed votes should be enough to relegate the right-wingers to seething, drawling irrelevance at the national level).
Of course, if Republicans persuade more Americans to be bigoted and superstitious, or perfect a machine that mass-produces gullible, uneducated, bigoted, southern white males, Democrats could have a real problem on their hands.
Good luck with all of that, clingers.
Don't miss your 75th class reunion "Reverend" Jerry/Arthur
https://law.udc.edu/
You seem to disregard the prospect of Court enlargement, recess appointments, House enlargement (with it, the Electoral College), admission of states, and other measures by which America's betters -- who constitute the majority in this nation -- could address the issue of Republican exploitation of our system's structural amplification of obsolete, rural, minority voices and votes.
I think he may be right to disregard all of that. It is clear from the last few years that only the Republican side of the partisan gap is willing to so completely ditch political norms and institutions. Biden is still not expressing any willingness to support expanding the Court, the disproportionate nature of the Senate literally can't be changed without every state's agreement, enlarging the House wouldn't do anything that I can see, as long as the Court continues to accept gerrymandering, admission of states would require both a Senate and House majority along with a Democratic Party President, and so on. The game is rigged, and only the Republican Party is willing to toss the rules in order to win.
Biden does not have votes to expand the Court, consequent to one drawling clinger and one unreliable, eccentric chucklehead.
I disagree with your pessimism about enlarging the Court, enlarging the Senate (by admitting states). enlarging the House (with it, Electoral College), diminishing the filibuster, and a few other measures that would put the downscale minority more firmly in its proper place.
All I know is you are not a Rev.
You would be a most obvious servant of two masters if you were.
Another good reference here would be Thomas' dissenting opinion in Obergefell. There he writes, "As used in the Due Process Clauses, "liberty" most likely refers to "the power of loco-motion, of changing situation, or removing one's person to whatsoever place one's own inclination may direction; without imprisonment or restraint, unless by due court of law." For this definition he quotes from Blackstone. He goes on to state, "Even assuming that the "liberty" in those Clauses encompasses something more than freedom from physical restraint, it would not include the types of rights claimed by the majority. In the American legal tradition, liberty has long been understood as individual freedom from governmental action, not as a right to a particular governmental entitlement." (emphasis in the original).
When discussing previous cases that identified a right to marry, he states that none of them "expanded the concept of "liberty" beyond the concept of negative liberty." According to Thomas, Loving v. Virginia "involved a couple who was criminally prosecuted for marrying in the District of Columbia and cohabitating in Virginia." In a footnote he connects colonial and Civil-War era antimiscegenation laws with slavery and white supremacy. While he doesn't openly state it, the implication appears to be that the intent of the legislature matters when examining the historical record. Even though the historical evidence shows that antimiscegenation laws were present when the 14th Amendment was ratified, if the intent of those laws was invidious, then the evidence doesn't count. This standard would create a new series of arguments by litigants, who would delve into the intent of past legislatures when examining the historical record.
But more importantly, Thomas distinguishes Loving from the case because the former involved a criminal prohibition, while the Obergefell involves individuals who were "denied solely governmental recognition and benefits associated with marriage." But this same logic would seem to sanction a state law that defines marriage as between two persons of the same race. The law cannot criminalize interracial marriage, but it can refuse to acknowledge such a marriage and therefore confer any marital benefits. I suppose the way around this, as I mentioned, would be for Thomas to claim that historical laws were passed with invidious intent. But this approach clearly isn't shared by everyone on the Court. In Ramos v. Louisiana, Alito wrote, "If Louisiana and Oregon originally adopted their laws allowing non-unanimous verdicts for [racist] reasons, that is deplorable, but what does that have to do with the broad constitutional question before us? The answer is: nothing."
It would be interesting to see how Thomas would rule (and the reasoning he would use) in a case where a state defined marriage as between two individuals of the same race.*
*I hope I don't summon David Bernstein by using the word race.
The question of legislative intent seems to me to be one that conservative judges will use when it suits them and then say that it doesn't matter when that gives them the result they want. They certainly don't like the purpose prong of the Lemon Test. I always remember Scalia's dissent in Edwards v. Aguillard, where he asks, rhetorically, why they should question the Louisiana legislature's intent to teach science by requiring equal time for "creation science". If they say that it is about "teaching the controversy" and not about religious indoctrination, then who are they to question it?
I'm conflicted about "substantive due process". From a purely linguistic point of view, the self-contradiction of substance and process is jarring. On the other hand, I like gay marriage, interracial marriage, and easy availability of birth control, all of which SDC is credited with fostering. In the end I come to the conclusion that in a democratic republic it would be better if these good things were brought about by the actions of our elected legislators, rather than by philosopher-kings in black robes, even if the legislators took a little longer to get the job done.
To the degree that Griswold or Obergefell is vulnerable to reversal should be placed squarely at the feet of justices who relied on living constitutionalism to advance their personal policy preferences--not justices who seek to restore constitutionalism. Historicist thinking has falsely led people to believe that "the moral arc of the universe bends towards [their conception of justice.]"
Historicist thinking has falsely led people to believe that "the moral arc of the universe bends towards [their conception of justice.]
You're right. It isn't historically inevitable for societies to move toward greater tolerance of social, religious, and cultural differences. Nor is it inevitable that nations that have achieved such status as a liberal democracy will remain that way. It is entirely possible that backlash and reversion to oppression will occur as an intolerant minority manages to seize the reigns of power and work to force its values on everyone else.
Jason, you think you are right because you oppose the wrong historicist position, but there you make a gross error.
You are taking the collectivist centralizing Fed govt as the key. But what happened to 50 states ??? where surely an intolerant minority can never organize to effect 50 reversals.
I have lived in several states that LOATHE homosexual perversion and that affirm marriage and inter-racial marriage. You must be a Northener because in the South inter-racial children were very common even under the worst racism. it takes a Northener to say something so opposed to human nature, that a black and a white will never naturally fall in love and have a family !!!
Carpenter and Adler miss the most obvious legal hurdle...yes, if 14th Amendment Due Process stands but those against Griswold, Lawrence, or Obergefell might very well have a different view of why they should stand or not. The literature on the 14th Amendment is looking very against Carpenter and Adler. See for example Joshua Craddock's work.
This is like the man killed in the alley with his wallet taken just so it LOOKS like a robbery 🙂