How Florida Beat California to High-Speed Rail
One company is betting that it can run a commercially viable passenger rail service without massive federal subsidies.
HD DownloadIn 19th century America, trains symbolized modernity. Passenger rail connected the east and west coasts and helped settle the frontier. By 1916, rail accounted for 98 percent of intercity travel.
As it became easier to drive or fly, passenger rail use plummeted. In 1971, the government created Amtrak, which survives on federal subsidies. And most recently the Biden administration gave Amtrak $66 billion in federal subsidies as part of the federal infrastructure bill.
But in Florida, Brightline is showing that it's still possible to run a viable, privately operated passenger rail line under certain conditions. The company is starting service from Miami to Orlando on September 22.
Not only is Brightline the first privately funded intercity rail line in the U.S., but it's also the fastest train in the country outside of the northeast corridor. Topping out at 125 mph in Florida, it will travel from Miami to Orlando in about three hours. For comparison, the Amtrak in the area takes about six and a half hours to complete that same trip.
Mike Reininger, CEO of Brightline, told Reason that passenger rail makes commercial sense under specific conditions, such as the case in Florida, where it connects two populous, tourist-friendly cities that are about 250 miles apart. At that distance, Reininger says, "It is too far to drive and too short to fly. You can approximate the time of flying significantly, improve the time of driving, and you can offer it at a price point that makes it an economic proposition."
There has been one other ambitious effort to build high-speed rail in the U.S.—in California. But that project turned into something so "foolish" that it's "almost a crime," according to Quentin L. Kopp, the former state senator who was crucial in rallying support for a $10 billion bond measure to build high-speed rail in California. He became a fierce opponent of the project when it ran out of money and the agency in charge, he says, broke its promises to voters.
The 520-mile railway between San Francisco and Los Angeles was supposed to be completed by 2020. But after 15 years of construction, they've only laid track for a 170-mile stretch in the Central Valley. The project, which has received more than $20 billion in state and federal subsidies, is now projected to cost over $128 billion.
Following on its success in Florida, Brightline is also starting to develop a high-speed rail line out west—connecting Las Vegas to Los Angeles. The 218-mile line will have just a handful of stops and plans to reach speeds over 186 mph. But the company is pursuing about $3 billion worth in federal subsidies to complete the project, or about a third of the total estimated cost. Though not even close to the amount of money California needs to finish its project, Robert Poole, the director of transportation policy at Reason Foundation, is "skeptical" once federal money gets involved at all in large infrastructure projects.
"It becomes far less of a business venture. And much more of this attitude that we can do grand things because we don't have to worry about what it costs," says Poole.
But Brightline's Florida project remains a true test of whether there are narrow cases in which American travelers value passenger rail enough to pay for it with their own money.
Photo Credits: akg-images / Paul Almasy/Newscom; Chris Kleponis - CNP/Newscom; Ron Sachs - CNP/Newscom; DPST/Newscom; Everett Collection/Newscom; Everett Collection/Newscom; Everett Collection/Newscom; National Motor Museum / Heritage Images/Newscom; Gary Reyes/TNS/Newscom; Gary Reyes/TNS/Newscom; Gary Reyes/TNS/Newscom; Underwood Archives/Universal Images Group/Newscom; Underwood Archives/Universal Images Group/Newscom; Underwood Archives/UIG / Universal Images Group/Newscom; Darryl Heikes/UPI/Newscom
- Video Editor: Alex Ward
- Producer: Zach Weissmueller
- Audio Production: Ian Keyser
- Graphics : Danielle Thompson
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What a glorious time it will be when the Californian light rail line is completed! Spandex jackets for everyone!
Train speeds ———————
Upon full buildout of the Miami–Orlando route, trains will operate at up to 79 mph (130 km/h) between Miami and West Palm Beach, up to 110 mph (180 km/h) between West Palm Beach and Cocoa, and up to 125 mph (200 km/h) between Cocoa and the Orlando International Airport. A future extension to Tampa from Orlando would, if constructed, also allow trains to operate at up to 125 mph (200 km/h). It will be one of the few rail services in the United States to approach the lowest high-speed rail standard set by the International Union of Railways, 200 km/h (125 mph).
The planned travel time between Miami and Orlando is 3 hours. Driving between the two takes 3+1⁄2 hours using the Florida’s Turnpike, and 3+3⁄4 hours using the I-95/SR 528 freeways along the planned train route via Cocoa. The flight time between MIA and MCO is one hour, not including check-in, security, and last mile transportation.
To meet the 3-hour schedule, trains will have to operate with an overall average speed of 80 mph (130 km/h), which is similar to the overall average speed of the Amtrak Acela Express operating on the Northeast Corridor between New York City and Washington, D.C.
Nothing says progress like utilizing transportation technology from the 1800’s.
Yeah, it's sort of like how some people are trying to work up a way to provide wind power to freight ships.
The technology of high-speed rail is substantially advanced from the coal-burning days of your early adulthood. You might just as well compare the Wright Flyer with an Airbus 380 and criticise flight as using a 120-year old technology.
You might try some evidence instead of your idiotic assertions.
You haven't taken a lot of trains recently, I gather.
I've taken the DC-NY Amtrak. The user experience was fine and the price was great thanks to generous taxpayer subsidies.
Now, the train ride home from DC to Chicago - why it only takes 9 to 12 hours. Why, it's amazing. Oh, wait, you wanted a sleeping car for your 12 hour ride? Why that's $650.
Or you could take a plane that's 1 hour and 15 minute flight and costs $300.
Now fly/train home to Denver or Seattle and see how awesome choo choos are.
Oh, and the train was one way, the $300 flight was round trip.
You should use a transporter beam like they have in Star Trek.
CA has been basing their "handgun safety" rules on non-existent tech for 15+ years (the courts have recently put an injuction on some of those laws and a handful of new pistols have been added to the roster of "safe" guns for the first time in over a decade).
The CA legislature at one point passed a law mandating that by a certain year there would be 1 million electric cars operating in the state, with no real or reasonable mechanism for how they intended to make that happen or what they'd do if it didn't.
Funding construction of public "teleportation booths" throughout the state really wouldn't be all that far out of line for the half-wits pretending to make policy in this state. I'm still amazed that their first-line plan for dealing with the persistent "drought" conditions we have nearly ever year hasn't been to pass a law mandating more rainfall in the heavily populated parts of the state; coming up with a plan to actually capture and use what precipitation we do have or allowing construction and powering of desalination of seawater anywhere on the 400 miles of coastline in the state don't seem to be coming anytime in the forseeable future (we even had a ballot measure to issue a few $Billion in bonds to pay for something along those lines a few years back, but that money probably got re-routed into the crazy train fund),
“But in Florida, Brightline is showing that it’s still possible to run a viable, privately operated passenger rail line under certain conditions.”
Conditions like making sure their CEO doesn’t make any statements that disagree with the governor’s politics.
[Disclaimer: Not an endorsement of anything any Disney CEO has ever said. Disclaimer to disclaimer: Except Walt, because how can you not love old Walt.]
Now do Biden.
Why should a train line CEO weigh in on sex education for second graders?
Maybe the CEO has some special interest in sex and 7 year olds.
Is the CEO a Democrat like Joey Biden?
No particular reason, but should they have the right to do so?
Is it a violation to remove special rights for your company and to be treated like, literally, every other company in a state?
Not building the main run of the tracks on the opposite side of a mountain range from the major cities they're trying to serve is a good start. Routing the train up the central valley (where there's 50+ miles and at least one mountain pass between the tracks and the cities at either end of the intended line) instead of the coast was possibly the first decision that CAHSR committed to.
Brightline probably also didn't try to start doing construction before actually choosing a route and getting clearance on the right of way. CA took $Billions from the 2009 "stimulus" package that was supposedly funding "shovel ready" projects before they even had the beginnings of a plan; that money came with conditions that it had to be spent on building stuff years before the HSR committe even knew where exactly they wanted to build anything. Also, one of the biggest reasons that the CA project gave up on connecting to either L.A. or SF is that they couldn't figure out anywhere that they could actually get their lines anywhere near the city centers at either end (not that L.A. really has a "city center" that everyone agrees on); at one point the plan for L.A. was to have riders take a 30-40 minute commuter train out to Riverside (about 55 miles away) from Union Station, which doesn't have the parking/rental car/transit infrastructure available to handle a fraction of the traffic they predicted, then transfer onto the "High Speed" train out there. Maybe the plan to get to SF involved doing the same between SF and Sacramento?
Brightline in FL also has a fare structure that's comparable or cheaper than air travel. At the time that the CA project was estimating fares (after State subsidies) which were at least double the cost of flying via Southwest or Jet Blue, with air travel offering a choice of 5 different airports (LAX, OC, Ontario, Long Beach, Burbank) in L.A. and at least 2 (SFO and San Jose) in the Bay Area, allowing travelers to save up to 2-3 hours in traffic depending on what parts of the two metros they were traveling between.
I am definitely looking forward to the LA-Vegas train opening, if Brightline can manage to get something built in CA and figure out how to cross the mountains effectively; Europe can manage 20+ mile long tunnels through the alps, but their mountains aren't shifting slowly over time the way some of the ranges around the "Ring of Fire" are known to, and I wouldn't want to see the bar car on a 150mph train running switchbacks up and down the Cajon Pass...
I just happen to live in one of the towns along the Brightline route - Stuart, FL, and can tell you that Brightline did NOT consider anything related to the towns along the way in determining the route that they are using. They only considered the fact that the Florida East Coast Railway (FEC) owns a set of tracks along the east coast of florida, and it wants more of the container traffic flowing north from the ports in south Florida. There is a much shorter route already in place up the middle of the state between Miami and Orlando, but it is owned by a different railroad company, which would not benefit FEC.
The Brightline scam is expected to benefit the FREIGHT business of FEC, by paying for upgrades to tracks and signalling equipment. FEC is running BOTH freight and "high speed" passenger trains on the same tracks, which is not done anywhere else in the world. When the passenger service eventually dies (which it will, as soon as people realize that it is more expensive than renting a car and driving between Miami and Orlando), then they will have new tracks and signals FOR THEIR FREIGHT TRAINS, paid for by the Federal Govt.
And they are making life a living hell for the people who live along the route. They have the highest rate of deaths by "trespassers" along the route. All those geezers who live long the tracks here aren't used to high speed trains. And they are trying to shutdown the Intracoastal Waterway traffic across Florida, by keeping a bridge in Stuart shut to ship and boat traffic for 50 minutes out of every hour.
It is a disaster, all so FEC can transport containers of Chinese junk up the peninsula.
All that's likely to end up happening to some of the towns along the route for the CA HSR boondoggle is that they'll have a few newly built overpass/underpass crossings to avoid having to stop car traffic or risk potential collisions where major roads cross unused, and unconnected stretches of track, and a few shiny new rail stations where no train will ever stop.
They'll also get to know that some portion of their State taxes for the next 20 years will be going to repay $20Billion or more that was plowed into the project for years after it was known to be doomed because Newsom was trying to at least get enough track connected to avoid aving to repay something like $2.5Billion to the Feds (granted to the state by the Obama "stimulus" package in 2009 supposedly to fund "shovel ready" infrastructure construction)
Even the most optomitically spun version of the status (from the HSR Authority's press release 5 weeks ago), states that about 80% of the track run has been "environmentally cleared", and the portion of track "under construction" has increased from 24% to 35% of the total run. That's almost 15 years since the project was approved by voters, and 3-4 years past the point where the train was supposed to have been completed and operating over a stretch that's probably 40-50% longer than the current scope (and would have served at least 6 times as many people as the current plan might actually be visible to). The total of what they're calling "completed" so far seems to be 42 "structures" (overpasses, maybe a station here or there), and 90 miles of "guideway"; one thing the website doesn't mention (and I can't find via google) is if any actual track has been laid so far.
"Brightline is also starting to develop a high-speed rail line out west—connecting Las Vegas to Los Angeles. The 218-mile line will have just a handful of stops and plans to reach speeds over 186 mph. But the company is pursuing about $3 billion worth in federal subsidies to complete the project, or about a third of the total estimated cost."
This is going to be an interesting project. We can compare similar lines, one within a red state without federal funds, and one interstate between two blue states, using federal funds. Anyone want to bet on schedule and budget overruns?
This is disappointing:
Topping out at 125 mph in Florida
125mph?
The technology of high-speed rail is substantially advanced from the coal-burning days of your early adulthood.
125mph? I guess not.
SRG is easily confused, the poor obnoxiously arrogant piece of shit.
200mph is generally achievable - and it's not merely about speed.
Yeah, 200 mph on brief stretches, 80 mph average, but even that is only between a few stations. With the connections/feeders necessary on either end of the trip, "high speed rail" is not competitive with anything.
It's competitive with other government programs for your tax dollars.
It’s prudent when you never know when Florida Man might wander onto the tracks.
125 MPH is as high speed as Corporate America can imagine.
The average speed isn't even 85 MPH.
Odd how Reason Magazine seems to misrepresent the truth in every one of their articles.
It's almost as if they are using dishonesty to sell their political ideology.
What was misrepresented?
10x initial cost estimate adjusted for inflation so probably 20x unadjusted, 4x time estimate.
I'd bet the mortgage on the line from Vegas to Primm being done (and possibly operating) at least 5 years before there's more than 20 miles of total track laid on the CA side.
218 miles sounds like they're only going down to about Barstow/Victorville though, or maybe Ontario? Hope they're planning to also build one hell of a big parking structure (and provide ample security on the weekends) on that end of the line since there's probably tens of thousands of cars (at least) that'll be coming out of L.A. to that point every Friday and clearing out on Sunday.
They probably find some imaginary endangered rodent that will halt construction and require an eco eval.
Some sort of ancient burial site in the Mojave preserve might be more likely, but if the tracks parallel I-15 the marginal disturbance is almost nil. There's already a number of eco folks who are upset about the disturbance the Tonopah collectors are for the local tortoise population, and possibly even a few who aren't happy about the birds that get cooked while flying through the focal pattern of the mirrors. The only thing that doesn't seem to bother any activists is airplanes being blinded flying over that part of the desert.
A usable HSR systemon that route would legit take so many cars off the road every weekend that the usual whackadoodles might just decide to suck it up and allow the thing, though.
218 miles is about the straight-line distance from Vegas to Pasadena.
I see they're going to Victorville, never mind.
"It is too far to drive "
Five hours, but you get the convenience of having a vehicle at each end of the trip to sightsee etc. Maybe go to Key West without having to rent a car?
Face it, there is a very limited use for passenger rail service outside of commuting zones and Durango/Silverton type tourist operations.
High-speed rail from major city centre to major city centre is still better than flying. In principle, Chicago to NY could be a 4-hour trip. You cannot go from midtown Manhattan to downtown Chjcago in 4 hours by plane.
In principle isn’t happening.
No but it gives you a position to start from.
Telecommute.
You arrive at your place of work instantly.
It takes me about 15 seconds to go downstairs to my office.
“High-speed rail from major city centre to major city centre is still better than flying…”
Assertions from brain-dead shits =/= evidence or argument.
The assertion is simply false. Even when high speed rail works as advertised, for most people, it is worse than either driving a car or flying.
So it's not going to stop in Indianapolis or Cleveland or Pittsburgh or Harrisburg? Good luck getting buy-in from those cities' state governments.
And it has to maintain an average speed of 200mph for the entire trip.
Is it possible to board a high speed train anywhere on Manhattan Island? Is there room for any HSR track to actually be laid into Penn Station or Grand Central?
Yeah, if you are the kind of wealthy person who lives in a city center, does business in a city center, can pay for high speed rail tickets, and only travel between cities that are close enough so that rail makes sense. That’s a miniscule number of people.
On routes where rail makes sense, most people are better off taking cars or buses.
On long distance routes, flying is the only option.
Yes, in fantasy land. In reality, you cannot create such a rail line. European high speed rail lines achieve maybe 75-80 mph for common routes.
And even if you could made that happen, it would run at most once or twice a day, meaning you'd lose hours by arriving at the wrong time of day. But, hey, if you're a wealthy tourist with infinite amounts of time, what do you care?
"Yeah, if you are the kind of wealthy person who lives in a city center, does business in a city center, can pay for high speed rail tickets, and only travel between cities that are close enough so that rail makes sense. That’s a miniscule number of people."
It's a small number of people, but they're wildly over-represented among the leadership and donor class of the Democrat Party, especially the national leadership in DC and the "blue-anon" media staffers who may actually think that being "bi-coastal" means splitting time between being on the banks of the East River and the Potomac.
Yes, of course. Powerful urban elites like to have subsidized high speed passenger rail. That's why we get the East Coast corridor and why they tried SF to LA.
All of you rail fans talk about how nice it would be to have high speed rail like they do in France. Well, I used to live in France, down near Bordeaux, and we would go up to Paris in the winter for a few weeks, for fun, and we would always drive. The train was slightly faster, but it was a PITA to schlep all the luggage, plus 2 cats, for a 3 weeks stay, with a complicated change of trains that was very short. In my car, I could stop whenever I wanted to have a nice civilized meal, listen to whatever music I wanted, and not have to deal with unruly children running thru the car. And it costs LESS to park a car in Paris for a month than to take the train!
We once had a trip from Bordeaux to Inverness Scotland that could have been done by air (3 hours), by train (overnight), or by car (2 days, with a ferry crossing), and the cost of just the transport was the same, within about 15 euros, for all 3. But the train and airplane versions did not include a car rental costs in Scotland, or the opportunity to bring back all sorts of interesting Scottish food (Scottish beef and haggis - yum!) in the car. Rail fans talk about how nice it is to not have to drive, but a lot of people LIKE to take their time and drive thru the countryside, and stop along the way. There is a reason why so few people use trains, unless they are traveling between DC and NYC, on business.
Lots of available transport at the stations. From the website:
Get to and from the station with ease.
Your door-to-door pickup and drop-off mobility solutions are easier with Brightline+:
Private Rides powered by Uber
Luxury Private Rides and Shared Connect Shuttles powered by Mears
Fixed Route Shuttles
Event Shuttles
Neighborhood Electric Vehicles powered by Circuit
BrightBikes and CitiBikes
Better options in Miami, because you are downtown. In Orlando you are at the airport; lots of choices, but longer to get somewhere interesting.
Sad that Miami is now prone to daily flooding and the poisoning of soil by salt water intrusion due to climate change causing ocean levels to rise.
Only fools build in a burning house.
Nonsense.
The ski train to Winter Park has its uses, but it is too expensive. Parking in that part of Denver is asking for broken windows.
The “too far to drive” circle has changed markedly in the last few years. I had to travel from Atlanta to Gulfport, Mississippi a LOT for work and regularly drove back and forth. I had to explain to people over and over again why I was putting down so many POV miles and not booking flights--I did end up switching to rental cars eventually, lucky to have block of Hertz/Enterprise/Alamo locations close to the office. Once you account for driving to the airport, security, arriving 1 hour before flight, delays, renting a car on arrival, driving from airport to the actual work site… it can easily expand to 2-3 hours more than the actual drive takes. Plus, driving, I know that Alabama and Mississippi honor my carry permit.
The problem with LA to LV as proposed is, the terminus on the LA end is in Victorville. Which is still a serious car trip from downtown LA.
If CA were simply willing to add a third lane running west bound from the NV state line to Barstow on I-15, this train line would be mooted.
Getting rid of the moronic agriculture stop at Yermo would help also.
Yes, that’s dumb. You need to be able to get on the train in LA.
No, everyone needs to use any method available to get out of LA and never return.
What was that old joke about the vacation prizes?
First prize is one week in Philadelphia, second prize is two weeks in Philadelphia.
Like a liberal virus, spreading from LA? No Thanks. Better idea to reroute the train into a mountain pass with an incomplete bridge.
the terminus on the LA end is in Victorville. Which is still a serious car trip from downtown LA.
Doesn't LA have a Union Station - or any of the predecessors to that?
Google Cajon Pass, look at it on a map, and see the problem HSR would have negotiating it.
Ok well if that one doesn't work, I've got a great idea for a high-speed rail line to Hawaii. Stops in Santa Barbara. Give me a few thousand acres of land and I'll put together a killer brochure for the service. Don't even need billions of dollars - though I won't turn that down if you want the project to proceed faster.
Biden is already on it. Hawaii is one of the stops on the high speed rail to India.
Do you pretend to have a brain cell?
There has been an awful lot of stuff built around Union Station since it was built. Like miles and miles of dense city.
That is the main problem with passenger rail (high or low speed) now. Many cities tore up either their main station or much of the track to it - to build highways. Now there is no right of way left.
Amtrak still serves LA doesn't it? I remember traveling from LA up to SF and then over to Chicago on it. Cool trip even if its more for leisure than for real.
Really what they'd need is an additional two "flex lanes" on I-15, which carry passenger car traffic Northbound on Thursday-Saturday and Southbound on Sunday-Monday. Maybe even have those lanes operate closer to "autobahn" rules where drivers getting rear-ended are considered to be at fault if they're not in the right hand lane or experiencing some kind of mechanical failure. Just allowing the cars that are planning to do the whole run to avoid having to navigate around the truck traffic would improve flow immensely (especially if there were also some way to filter out the 20% of L.A. drivers who drive like they suddenly found themselves in a moving vehicle without any prior warning).
The ag checkpoint is out northeast of Baker near the Tonopah solar collectors (between Yates Well and Niption exits). Yermo is just outside of Barstow, more than 100 miles away. It definitely doesn't help anything move, but I've rarely seen it be the actual choke point and almost never had to come to a complete stop to even get asked about anything I'm carrying. I just hope the Newsom regime never tries to add "prop 62 enforcement" to the tasking of those checkpoints; I don't bring home "souvenirs" on every trip I take to Nevada, but I can't say I've never picked up certain impossible to find items while traveling out of state to NV or AZ.
The problem with high speed rail is that it can only have a few stops in order to be high speed. That means that the vast majority of users will have to take feeder trains at either end. That means that your high speed rail delivers decidedly slow transportation overall, no matter how fast the trains theoretically go.
That's why L.A. to Vegas is a good route for it. Unless you're looking to pick up a particular brand of beef jerky, a date milkshake, or to overpay for gasoline by $0.75/gal, there aren't any significant stops between Barstow/Victorville and McCarran Airport (south end of the LV strip). With dual tracks over most of the route (or a sufficient frequency of bypasses), they could probably operate 4 trains simultaneously and have service leaving every hour or so over weekends. It'd probably be easy to get MGM and Ceasars to kick in some serious cash and take a significant stake in the project, maybe put in some "affinity" cars on each train and get some video poker/slots going once the trains cross into NV?
If they get operating out of Victorville, they might eventually reinvest some profits to extend closer in, going by increments either Ontario or Pasadena would make sense as a next stop, then maybe Union Station, and if they could get across town (maybe underground?) put a terminal somewhere around the Santa Monica/LAX area (near LAX would make sense since the airport already has so much terminal infrastructure in place).
Considering the arrangement of the L.A. Metro area, it might make more sense for them to build out some kind of "delta" of light rail collector lines instead, since the bullet trains won't get up to speed on those routes anyway; one to the SFV/SGV, one to DTLA/westside, one down into OC, and maybe one to some parts of the IE/Riverside/San Bernardino. If they set it up properly, they might actually also outdo Metro for commuter service in a lot of those areas during the week.
High speed rail can't have a lot of stops, so you can't keep adding stops. And LA and Vegas lack the local infrastructure to have reasonable feeder lines. And even if all that were in place, it would still make no financial sense.
LA to Las Vegas is best handled by a fleet of buses and (in the future) self-driving vehicles.
You can't run HSR down the Cajon Pass.
If they’re smart they’ll tunnel through. Maybe from around where the Cleghorn exits are to near where the "summit inn" sign is, depending on what kind of grade the trains can handle in the tunnel. Maybe Halloran as well, but that climb is a lot straighter than the south side of Cajon
Either that, or they could cut across Antelope Valley parallel to Hwy 18/138 and get to the SFV/SGV through Santa Clarita with another tunnel or two.
I don’t know that I’d want to be travelling under one of those mountains in a big quake, but it’d be no more unsafe than Elon’s “hyperloop” idea (which might now be out of favor because Musk turned heretic and left the one true ideology of progressive leftist dogmatism).
Plus Florida is flat and empty, and not covered by mountains and fault lines. But maybe, just maybe, California should have started with the most profitable segment, and not the least? Merced to Bakersfield, huh?
Flat?
Empty?
Do you not have a search engine?
Take the thriving metropolis of Mount Dora; population (2020) 16,341, elevation 167 feet.
There is no "most profitable" segment of the route they put that train along.
Maybe if they'd started with SD to OC, then to L.A., then expanded it up to Santa Barbara, and worked up the coastline parallel to the Amtrak route through SLO, Monterrey, and then inland to Silicon Valley and SF.
The "central planning" types who think they're emulating Europe and Japan with these trains have no concept of how the existing HSR lines in those places started and incrementally expanded. The system in Japan started off just connecting two cities which were something like 40-50 miles apart and in a place where 15 million people lived in a handful of cities along the line; CA really just has the two big metros which make up 60% or so of the state's population, but the 20 million who live in the L.A. area are spread over an area that's 70-100 miles across in any direction, and can take 4-5 hours to cover by car in "normal" traffic conditions. When I go to Vegas, the first 50-60 miles (to about where the Brightline train will start) from my house can take me 45 minutes if I leave at midnight, or 3.5 hours if I try to do it while the sun is up.
As usual, a Reason article about a business based on land will never pay any attention to the land. afaics, the original track was a Florida land-grant (2 million acres in total). Purely a state thing. That rail ended passenger service before Amtrak in the 60's because it wasn't profitable. So what's changed since then apart from track/land lease rates rising faster than possible passenger fares? The cost for double-tracking was financed by the federales but that may have been refinanced and paid back. Or maybe not if there are some tax-exempt bonds involved. One of those lawyer pissing contests that went on for years. Tax exempt bonds always rely on munis/state to bail out (and feds if the feds bail out the state) the cost of construction if/when the operations fail. And there have been some muni payments for infill stuff like stations. Akin to stadium deals and almost certainly with 'extra land' on the side.
I hope this succeeds but it does look like every other railroad in US history. A land acquisition/speculation/development deal rather than an operations deal. And since private transport land keeps rising in price and keeps being financed as the price rises (vs public transport land), the cost of operations will always become less competitive over time compared to those transport options that use public land (namely highways and streets). That's why rail fails so easily in the US. But the land acquisition/development profits are still always good enough to spin new tales of 'this time will be different'
"...The project, which has received more than $20 billion in state and federal subsidies, is now projected to cost over $128 billion..."
"News that the Transbay Terminal is something like $300 million over budget should not come as a shock to anyone. We always knew the initial estimate was way under the real cost. Just like we never had a real cost for the Central Subway or the Bay Bridge or any other massive construction project. So get off it. In the world of civic projects, the first budget is really just a down payment. If people knew the real cost from the start, nothing would ever be approved. The idea is to get going. Start digging a hole and make it so big, there’s no alternative to coming up with the money to fill it in.
https://bereansatthegate.com/hall-of-shame-politicians-admit-deliberate-lieing-to-decieve-the-public/
This from the asshole who presented the 'budget' to the press at the time, the miserable, sub-human Willie Brown
If you want to get robbed put an “armed” criminal in charge of making things (gov-guns).
If you want to actually get things done hire anyone but an “armed” criminal in charge of making things.
The problem is: When you hire the entity you rely on to maintain Justice in your trade you VOID your own Justice by putting it in charge of something it was never meant to be doing. You no longer have any Justice to turn to if you get "robbed".
It’s amazing how the left cannot see that. Government was NEVER meant to be making things. ‘Guns’ don’t make sh*t. Their only asset to humanity is to ensure Liberty and Justice for all.
This is a reminder that the US has by far the largest rail network in the world, bigger than the entire EU combined. And the US rail network is 100% utilized: by freight trains.
Passenger rail is a waste of money; it isn't competitive with other modes of transportation and it isn't efficient. Any mile of railroad the US builds should be used for freight.
Exactly right.
Light rail became popular only because the Feds subsidized half the construction cost. A locality only had to pony up about a billion dollars and the Feds would match it. Dumping $2 billion into the local economy was a hit with the public piggies.
But light rail doesn't move freight and it doesn't go where you want, so it is a flop.
It is hard to understand how turn if the 19th century transportation solutions have a place today. This is what happens when you allow the Government to pick the winners.
Interesting. Never analyzed it much but each freight car's payload is 200,000 lbs which means if the car can't fit 1,000 people it's under weight.
Brightline took plenty of federal and state money, indirectly, and they prohibit guns, even in checked baggage. Bunch of commie liberals.
Good. Do you want some nutjob egged on by DeFascist's anti-gay anti-woman anti-Black rhetoric to start shooting everyone on a train where there's nowhere to run and nowhere to hide? I certainly don't.
I'm tired of YOUR fascist ramblings and your pretenses of caring about gays. Go to hell you fascist beaver.
You only talk about running and hiding with no where to go because you lobby to give up the right to self-defense guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. Do you really think a mass murder is going to say, "oh, it's prohibited. I guess we'll all go home now."
Passenger rail has always been a money loser. Even in the rail years, it lost money; used for prestige. Japan's bullet train, the shinkansen, does not make money. It's subsidized. Don't know about TGV, but I'm guessing that it doesn't pay for itself either.
European high speed rail is heavily subsidized. Tickets are expensive. And end-to-end travel times are usually slower than going by car or plane.
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As commentor Idihax says later in this thread,
Brightline has metal detectors and prohibits guns on its trains..
I go from West Palm to Miami once a month.
I don’t take Brightline because I am not going to Miami without a gun.
rent a locker leave one there. That's what they do in the movies.