Why MAGA Is Fighting Over High-Skilled Immigration

Plus: A listener asks the editors about subsidies for trains, planes, and roads.

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Why MAGA Is Fighting Over High-Skilled Immigration

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, and Peter Suderman chime in on the ongoing online debate over a federal visa program for high-skilled workers and look back at the legacy of former President Jimmy Carter.

04:04—H-1B visa debate

21:07—Biden blocks sale of U.S. Steel to Japan's Nippon Steel

30:49—Weekly listener question

41:13—Former President Jimmy Carter dead at 100

57:59—This week's cultural recommendations

 

Mentioned in this podcast:

"Can Nativists and Dynamists Coexist Within Trump's MAGA Coalition?" by Eric Boehm

"Bernie Sanders Is Still Wrong About Immigration," by Joe Lancaster

"Trump Promised More Legal High-Skilled Immigration. His Record Says Otherwise," by Kevin Garcia-Galindo

"Trump Suddenly Loves Immigration," by Liz Wolfe

"Democrats Learned that Voters Don't Like Border Chaos," by Alex Nowrasteh

"Don't Blame Melania Trump for Breaking Immigration Laws: CHANGE THE DAMN LAWS," by Nick Gillespie

"Miller outlines how Trump administration would prioritize mass deportations," by Rebecca Falconer and Russell Contreras

"The U.S. benefits from immigration but policy reforms needed to maximize gains," by Daniel Costa, Josh Bivens, Ben Zipperer, and Monique Morrissey

"Blocking the U.S. Steel Sale Is a Perfectly Disgraceful End to Biden's Political Career," by Eric Boehm

"Corpse President Says Companies Can't Do What They Want," by Liz Wolfe

"Bootleggers and Baptists in the U.S. Steel Deal," by Eric Boehm

"Nippon Steel-U.S. Steel Merger Poses No National Security Threat," by Jack Nicastro

"Trump's Vow To Block U.S. Steel's Sale Sends Stock Tumbling," by Eric Boehm

"Abolish Amtrak," by Jason Russell

"Privatize the Postal Service, Amtrak, Airports, and More," by Veronique de Rugy

"This Company Is Running a High-Speed Train in Florida—Without Subsidies," by Natalie Dowzicky

"How Are Your State's Roads Funded?" by Janelle Fritts

"Congressional Testimony: The Long-Term Solvency of the Highway Trust Fund," by Robert W. Poole

"How Do Long Distance Trains Perform Financially?" by Amtrak

"Why Can't We Build Anything?" by Katherine Mangu-Ward

"The $1 Trillion Infrastructure Bill Spends a Lot More Money on the Same Old Highway Programs," by Christian Britschgi

"America's Highways Need That Trillion Dollars Congress Already Spent," by Matt Welch

"Road to Ruin," by Robert Poole

"RIP Jimmy Carter, the 'Passionless' President," by Gene Healy

"Jimmy Carter, 'The Great Deregulator,' 1924–2024," by Nick Gillespie

"Jimmy Carter Supported Federal Pot Decriminalization for Half a Century. It Still Has Not Happened," by Jacob Sullum

"Jimmy Carter's Gift to Hollywood Was No Gift to Georgia Taxpayers," by Joe Lancaster

"Jimmy Carter Sparked a Craft Beer Explosion by Getting Government Out of the Way," by Eric Boehm

"What Jimmy Carter and Jerry Brown Can Teach Us About Deregulation," by Matt Welch

"Energy and the National Goals—A Crisis of Confidence," by Jimmy Carter

"Why Do We Have a Department of Education? Jimmy Carter's Debt to a Teachers Union," by Anthony Fisher

"Tom Wolfe, RIP," by Matt Welch

"Tom Wolfe Is Dead but the 'Me Decade' Lives On (and That's a Good Thing)," by Nick Gillespie

"Tom Wolfe on 2012 Election: 'I Wrote in Ron Paul,'" by Brian Doherty

"Does Bob Dylan Have a Politics and if Yes, What the Hell Are They? by Nick Gillespie, Brian Doherty, and Andrew Kirell

"Jeffrey Edward Green: Why Bob Dylan's Prophecies Continue To Fascinate," by Nick Gillespie

"Positively Fourth Rate," by Nick Gillespie

 

Send your questions to [e-mail]. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

Today's sponsor:

• ZBiotics. ZBiotics Pre-Alcohol Probiotic Drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by Ph.D. scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Make ZBiotics your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Go to zbiotics.com/ROUNDTABLE to get 15 percent off your first order when you use ROUNDTABLE at checkout. ZBiotics is backed with a 100 percent money-back guarantee so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked.

Audio production by Ian Keyser

Assistant production by Hunt Beaty

Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

• Video Editor: Ian Keyser
• Producer: Hunt Beaty

What are we consuming this week?

Nick Gillespie

• A Complete Unknown

Peter Suderman

• Nosferatu

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• Beowulf: A New Translation by Maria Dahvana Headley

Matt Welch

• Radical Wolfe

---

Comments

[Dillinger]

>>Why MAGA Is Fighting Over High-Skilled Immigration

Why Reason Never Gets Its Headlines Right

[MasterThief]

Weird thing to focus on since that little fight was over a week ago. Then again, they have to keep signaling how much they hate Americans and want to see us replaced.
Do the editors here have any idea how out of touch they sound?

[Dillinger]

signs exist the comments are read lol.

[Riva]

H-1B visas do not go to the “highly-skilled.” They go predominately to low level IT and finance workers who are employed by foreign-owned staffing companies to replace/supplement an available domestic workforce. Or, in other words, it’s an f’ing scam.

[Rick James]

I like how 'MAGA' is now shorthand for "the majority of voters".

[Scotterbee]

I'd hate to piss on your excited tribal deadbeat euphoria, but I and a lot of folks voted your guy in and aren't particularly happy about it. You and I are not the same.

[Rick James]

Next time, strategically and reluctantly vote for the indian black woman.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

You mean the restarted drunk? And in that note, it occurs t me that she and Sarc might have some common lineage.

[Scotterbee]

I voted R. I am not maga. I can see how that would be hard for someone like you to understand.

[Dillinger]

so show up and explain yourself friendly-like ... afaik nobody here reads minds.

[Scotterbee]

I voted for your guy but don't like him very much. See? Its cute when you folks play retard.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

You keep intentionally misusing the term high skilled. More than half are entry level positions.

[sarcasmic]

https://reason.com/2025/01/03/bernie-sanders-is-still-wrong-about-immigration/?comments=true#comment-10855010

Pre-applications, not hired positions.

lol

Keep lying. If you started telling the truth I'd be genuinely concerned.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

I see you and Mike are still confused on how databases work. Thought you were a tech guy. That database indeed finds the positions claimed by oilfield rando if you know how you use it.

You're just proving your own ignorance.

But you have to justify the lying. Hint. Those positions he posted weren't from this year.

Why do you two love being wrong?

He even showed his search. Lol.

Now. How many positions are truly high skilled sarc? Will you answer?

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

"Thought you were a tech guy"

Two years of Prof. Donie O'Sullivan classes at the University of CNN.

[Quicktown Brix]

That database indeed finds the positions claimed by oilfield rando if you know how you use it

Which is exactly what I found: pre-applications for H1b's.

OK, Here we go again.

What you posted:
https://x.com/Oilfield_Rando/status/1872828083876802667

Is exactly what I found and posted:

https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=711+seven+eleven&job=&city=&year=all+years

Where it says: This website indexes the Labor Condition Application (LCA) disclosure data from the United States Department of Labor (DOL). Prior to filing an H-1B petition with the USCIS, an employer must file an LCA with the DOL.

Note that both have the entry "Years (1)". That "(1)" means there is only one matching year for me and Oilfield Rando. There are none from 2024. And even if there were, it doesn’t matter, the site only lists pre-applications.

[Alberto Balsalm]

JesseAz, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. Jesse is a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
Jesse lies; it’s what he does.Jesse is a lying pile of shit.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Lol. The retards are doubling down.

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

It is Sarc, right? He’s probably pissed again because you slapped him around (again) earlier.

[Alberto Balsalm]

It's Jessie's socko right? Attempting to butress his own lying ass. Sad

[Quicktown Brix]

The retards are doubling down.

Retards, eh?

How about instead of hurling insults and name calling like a petulant child's ranting when caught with his hand in the cookie jar, you post evidence showing we are wrong?

[Fire up the Woodchippers! (5-30 Banana Republic Day)]

Fuck off Sarc. You’re so goddamned pathetic.

[DesigNate]

It would be helpful if there was an easy way to check that list against actual issued visas.

I think you can agree that the fact that they even applied for visas for some of these positions puts lie to the idea that they’re just looking for “high-skilled”, hard working people though.

[Quicktown Brix]

I think you can agree that the fact that they even applied for visas for some of these positions puts lie to the idea that they’re just looking for “high-skilled”, hard working people though.

Thank you DesigNate for understanding my actual point and not reading more in to my point like I'm defending H1b system.

You are correct. The H1b Visa is abused to get cheap foreign labor. I've seen it 1st hand.

It would be helpful if there was an easy way to check that list against actual issued visas.

It sure would. It would have saved me a few hours of bickering.

I always enjoy when you chime in, but this time means a lot to know that some of the "quieter" commenters understand what I'm trying to say. Happy New Year!

[Mickey Rat]

I think a major bone of contention is the premise that this is about "high skilled" workers rather than cheap workers that the employer has a great deal of control over.

[Rick James]

I'm also not sure if we've had an article deeper than the "Bernie is like against immigration now too" that goes into the internecine battle within the Democratic party over immigration that began after 50 migrants knocked on Obama's door.

[charliehall]

Bernie Sanders is not and has never been a Democrat.

[Rick James]

After several billion spent on homelessness, an 'emergency' declared in 2015-- after the problem had been raging since 2012, and a local polity that had been repeatedly re-elected, voted unanimously on numerous bills to 'fix' the problem, increasing budgets every year, and a local media that cheered on every aspect of every fix and every massive expansion in government and NGO (government-funded) complex designed to address the problem:

“Seattle is the stark outlier in the sample: Over 57% of its homeless population is living without shelter,” the researchers found. This compares with just 3% in New York City.

Last week’s report to Congress is a giant red flag for Washington state. After years of supposedly urgent attention to the issue, Washington statewide had 4,000 more souls living outside in wintertime than much larger, and warmer, Texas.

Since 2015, when leaders in Seattle and King County declared a homelessness emergency, the rate of unsheltered homelessness has soared.

[Rick James]

Prediction, the question "what happaaaa" will occur, and the answer will be: "It's complicated" with the ultimate conclusion being: We haven't spent enough. Let's read on:

The numbers are jarring. Seattle-King County has twice as many people unsheltered as New York City, the report shows. Six times as many as Chicago. Ten times as many as Philadelphia (we have 9,810 unsheltered people, Philly has just 976). All these cities stood up more emergency shelter than we did — and it at least got roofs over people’s heads.

“In New York, Chicago, and Philadelphia, we found trends of unsheltered homelessness had not ballooned during the pandemic … but rather remained steady for the past decade,” the Brookings researchers found. “Seattle, again, was a stark outlier — seeing an 88% jump in unsheltered homelessness since 2015.”

The term “stark outlier” is used for Seattle four times in that study.

What happened?

It’s complicated, as everything with homelessness is. Fentanyl had a lot to do with it, but they have fentanyl in these other cities, too. The bottom line comes down to one word: shelter.

In a policy switch, Seattle-King County stopped adding much emergency shelter back in 2015. The plan was to instead focus on building permanent housing in what they argued was a more compassionate, deeper response.

Aww, just a few wonky policy tweaks could have fixed it all!

[charliehall]

"Seattle-King County has twice as many people unsheltered as New York City,"

Seattle has eleven times the population of NYC.

Many love to bash NYC for high taxes (which is only partly accurate) but two things we get for those taxes is a low homicide rate thanks to a huge police department and few homeless people living on the streets thanks to a huge shelter system.

[charliehall]

"After several billion spent on homelessness"

This year's homeless services budget in New York City is $4 billion. In a city with 11x as many people and much worse weather.

Maybe folks should admit that NYC does some things right.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

They are not high skilled you fucking morons, they are indentured servents. Often lower skilled, with less creativity
Boeing outsourced their control system for the 787 max to the Indians, how did that work out?

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Depends if your intention was to fly them or not.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

Is 2 alot? Depends of the context
In terms of downed aircraft, yes.
In terms of dead whistle blowers, also yes.

[Rick James]

What about in terms of apartment buildings taken over by Venezuelan gangs?

[MasterThief]

What about 2 dead hookers? Pretty sure ENB has the opposite response to everyone else.

[Nobartium]

Elon is wrong to standby the visa's as necessary, but he is correct that upping the cost of hiring would end the abuses.

[Truthteller1]

Reason still trying to gaslight its readers with this MAGA internal war bullshit. This is a fabrication by regime media.

[charliehall]

Lara Loomer and Steve Bannin disagree with you.

[TJJ2000]

They're not that 'smart'/skilled if they think 'Guns' (Gov-Guns) can take care of them.
'Guns' don't make sh*t.

[David Lawson]

Hi, hardcore libertarian here who has voted against Trump probably more than anyone else (because I moved states during the primary season) . I am no fan of MAGA or Trump, for the record.
I am also not against the H1b Visa program and have worked directly with some very good software developers from India. However, my experience is not only are they much cheaper but also much less effective. I was billed out to a major insurance company at only $200/hr due to price compression due to H1b workers who were billed out at $35/hr. Was I worth the large price difference? Absolutely, and more. I once did a technical task in about a dozen man hours that a later team of mostly H1b workers spent weeks redoing the work. The most they changed was a missing comma or two in the prose.
My beef is not with the workers or the program, really, but in the terrible bean counter decisions to try to replace me with even a few lower paid workers. They'd look at the $200/hr and say they could hire 5 H1b workers. However, the hiring managers preferred me because in some cases no amount of lower skilled technicians could even do the same job.
I'm all in favor of a guest worker program to replace the hiring of "illegals", but it must be paired with strict penalties to employers who hire "illegals" instead.
For the record, the statement that "they are only doing the jobs Americans won't do" really trips my breakers. I and other family members have done those very jobs. Americans need to get off their high horses and get to work.

[charliehall]

"I'm all in favor of a guest worker program to replace the hiring of "illegals", but it must be paired with strict penalties to employers who hire "illegals" instead."

Most illegal immigrants work in the food industry. MAGA voted for lower food prices AND mass deportations. They can't have both. Either penalizing the employers or mass deportations will result in higher food prices.

"I and other family members have done those very jobs."

As have I. But we are a different generation.

[charliehall]

Most MAGA people are neither sufficiently well educated nor sufficiently hard working to get hired instead of a well educated harder working foreign national. Ramaswamy isn't wrong on everything.

So the MAGA wants gub'mint to bail them out.

[Peter Kreeft taught me LOGIC, BEWARE !!!!!!!]

False on both counts if facts matter.

It is well known in sociological circles that fundamentalist and creationist and similar types tend to be very educated and very conservative.

Plus, what are you saying really. Are you talking about brains and education or just hard work. Some people --- many in fact --work harder BECAUSE they don't have the brains.

[Peter Kreeft taught me LOGIC, BEWARE !!!!!!!]

Katherine Mangu-Ward argues with the same lack of credibility as Kamala. Yes, Kamala does have a record , it's the 4 years with Biden and she admits she differed on nothing substantive. We need high-skilled workers and we have to do something about immigration.l But they are separate issues. Our education system is not turning out STEM graduates. We need to drop the woman and racial demands that limit the number of STEM graduates. ONe problem at a time.

[Lester75]

What’s limiting the STEM graduates is not ‘woman and racial demands.’ There may be a few Asian American boys who went to the second or third college of choice instead of the first due to a rich black kid or Indian girl getting a few points ahead in the ivy league admissions game. However white kids particularly men are still way over represented in STEM proportionally.

Not enough American kids period are applying particularly to STEM grad schools. Are we getting the very brightest kids in STEM of the capable? Maybe not. Finance pays better than STEM. The brightest math and computer science graduates are snapped up by hedge funds and big banks which pay better.

[Peter Kreeft taught me LOGIC, BEWARE !!!!!!!]

You solve no problems with your analysis. Just one ad hoc bandaid criticizing another ad hoc bandaid. Education is sht and that is why the US continues to fall in STEM graduates. Now it reaches to the teachers because people like you won't go to the roots.

The US is in dire need of STEM teachers
Faculty attitudes, public perceptions, tuition, and state requirements are barriers to science majors entering the teaching profession.
https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/article/75/3/25/2842714/The-US-is-in-dire-need-of-STEM-teachersFaculty

So as I often have to say on here : YOU ARE BOTH WRONG
As Peter Kreeft might say "Just because your opponent is wrong does not mean you are right"