Bernie Sanders Is Still Wrong About Immigration
The Vermont senator criticized the H-1B guest worker program, drawing praise from the most toxic elements of the MAGA movement.

As President-elect Donald Trump's inauguration approaches, many of his supporters have spent the last few weeks sparring with each other online over a federal visa program. This week, the U.S. Senate's most prominent socialist sided with the most far-right wing of the MAGA coalition.
The H-1B program allows companies to hire highly skilled foreign workers in "specialty occupations"—most prominently, as engineers at tech companies. Qualifying positions must utilize "a body of highly specialized knowledge" and "attainment of a bachelor's [degree] or higher" or its equivalent. Federal law currently limits the number of newly issued H-1B visas to 65,000 per year.
Trump recently expressed support for the program, telling the New York Post, "I have always been in favor of the visas. That's why we have them." (That's not quite true: In fact, Trump made the process much more difficult during his first term. Amid the COVID-19 outbreak, he restricted H-1B visas as "a significant threat to employment opportunities for Americans.")
Tech billionaires Vivek Ramaswamy and foreign-born Elon Musk, who have been tasked by Trump with finding cuttable waste in the federal budget, have endorsed H-1B as well. But many of Trump's more nativist supporters see his support for the program as a betrayal of his "America First" pledge. This week, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) came out against H-1B, as well.
"Elon Musk and a number of other billionaire tech company owners have argued that this federal program is vital to our economy because of the scarcity of highly skilled American engineers and other tech workers," Sanders said in a statement. "I disagree."
As Sanders sees it, the "main function" of guest worker programs like H-1B is "to replace good-paying American jobs with low-wage indentured servants from abroad."
"The cheaper the labor they hire," charges Sanders, "the more money the billionaires make."
"Bernie Sanders is right. Elon and Trump are wrong," claims an X post by Nick Fuentes, a MAGA figure with a long history of racist and antisemitic commentary.
But Sanders is wrong. What's more, he's wrong in the same way he's been wrong for decades.
"Indentured servitude is a contract to work for a single employer for a predetermined period without pay," David J. Bier, director of immigration studies at the Cato Institute, wrote in April 2024. "H‑1B workers are not only paid—they receive wages in the top 10 percent of wage earners in the United States. As importantly, although they face more obstacles to changing jobs, H‑1B workers are not tied to a single employer and they change jobs regularly." Indeed, employers have to pay considerable fees just to hire an H-1B visa holder.
Not only that, but job shifters were even more common than new hires, among H-1B recipients. "In 2023, about 61 percent of all H‑1B workers starting with a new employer were existing H‑1B workers hired away from other employers in the United States," Bier added. "This means that US employers are more likely to hire an H‑1B worker already in the United States in H‑1B status [than] they are to hire a new H‑1B worker not already with H‑1B status."
Employers are also required by law to pay H-1B visa holders a prevailing wage, which the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) defines as "the average wage paid to similarly employed workers in a specific occupation in the area of intended employment." As Bier wrote in 2020, 100 percent of H-1B employers audited by the DOL were doing so, while 78 percent actually paid their visa holders even more—on average, 20 percent above the prevailing wage.
Sanders' support for immigration has long been more tepid than one may assume, given he caucuses with the Democratic Party. In a 2015 interview with Ezra Klein, Sanders perplexingly referred to "open borders" as "a Koch brothers proposal."
"It would make everybody in America poorer," Sanders added. "You're doing away with the concept of a nation state." Trump has made nearly identical remarks, telling a crowd in 2018, "If you don't have borders, then you don't have a country."
Sanders has long believed that increased immigration depresses wages for American workers. In 2007, he helped kill a bipartisan immigration reform bill that would have created a path to citizenship for those here illegally. While Sanders supports both a path to citizenship and welcoming more refugees and asylum seekers, he opposed the 2007 law over its guest worker program that would allow foreign workers to receive two-year work visas.
"I don't know why we need millions of people to be coming into this country as guest workers who will work for lower wages than American workers and drive wages down even lower than they are right now," Sanders told Lou Dobbs at the time.
"The most recent economic evidence suggests that, on average, immigrant workers increase the opportunities and incomes of Americans," according to a 2012 report from the Brookings Institution. "Based on a survey of the academic literature, economists do not tend to find that immigrants cause any sizeable decrease in wages and employment of U.S.-born citizens, and instead may raise wages and lower prices in the aggregate."
Similarly, an April 2024 working paper in the National Bureau of Economic Research found that between 2000 and 2019, immigration "had a positive and significant effect" of between 1.7 percent and 2.6 percent "on wages of less educated native workers…and no significant wage effect on college educated natives." The paper also found "a positive employment rate effect for most native workers."
In his statement this week, Sanders also implied that programs like H-1B are merely a ploy to bring foreign workers into the country on promises of high-skilled work, only to then employ them in low-skilled positions. "If this program is supposed to be about importing workers with highly advanced degrees in science and technology, why are H-1B guest workers being employed as dog trainers, massage therapists, cooks, and English teachers?"
Sanders' use of "importing" to describe the voluntary movement of individual people is dehumanizing—and Trumpian. But his larger point is also incorrect: "Bernie's statement implies that you can get an H-1B to be a masseuse and cook. That is wrong," Bier tells Reason. "Those jobs do not require a college degree and are ineligible."
True, Sanders' motives for opposing H-1B are at least somewhat purer than those of someone like Fuentes—who noted in a recent X post, "I don't really care about the economy that much I just don't want to live in a country that looks like India."
Regardless, the fact that Sanders finds himself on the same side of an issue as someone so odious should provide a wake-up call for self-reflection. Rather than being a shortcut to hiring low-wage workers, programs like H-1B provide opportunities for people to come to the U.S. and ply their trade—enriching themselves, and the rest of us, in the process.
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Fuck Comrade Sanders.
Shorter article: Thinks Comrade Sanders is right about.
I'll go first:
drawing praise from the most toxic elements of the MAGA movement
Joe, you spelled "majority of voters" wrong.
He’s in the majority when he’s over at blue sky.
Or an editorial meeting at Reason.
I like the distinction. "Only some of MAGA is bad," he's saying.
As opposed to the one that can't be made for the Marxist Left, all of whom are toxic elements.
The H-1B program allows companies to hire highly skilled foreign workers in "specialty occupations"—most prominently, as engineers at tech companies. Qualifying positions must utilize "a body of highly specialized knowledge" and "attainment of a bachelor's [degree] or higher" or its equivalent. Federal law currently limits the number of newly issued H-1B visas to 65,000 per year.
Almost everything in this paragraph is false with current execution of H1B.
The number was well in the 6 figures in visas last year.
As posted this morning, visas even included a 27k a year 7-11 clerk position.
There is no highly specialized requirement. Over half of Visa holders are entry level workers.
The companies with waivers don't even have to pay prevailing wages. The current law is prevailing wage or 60k. And even then companies violate it constantly.
HCL, the largest visa holder currently, is currently involved in a suit. Their documents shoe the strategy is to underpaay prevailing wages as a corporate profit motive.
If you're going to write on the topic and call others wrong, at least learn about the subject.
The companies with waivers don't even have to pay prevailing wages. The current law is prevailing wage or 60k. And even then companies violate it constantly.
In fairness, between inflation and mandatory wage increases this number changes a lot. Almost like a pincer maneuver or two-pronged attack against normal people/market forces.
This number comes from a suit a few years ago. The 60k was added as an or condition. It is not tied to inflation.
This was when they also allowed the contractor loop hole, which HCL and others use, to remain to avoid prevailing wage. Disney, IBM, and others now outsource through HCL so they could pay less than their old employees made.
What is the original source for those seven eleven H1b's? Some tweets say these were ads some indicate approved, some say fake. I'm curious as it's obviously against the H1b rules.
You can read on who OilfieldRando is and what he was doing. He was using government databases.
But already realize your primary motivation is to mostly find a way to deny it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And it is not against H1B rules. Which is the problem. The program as currently implemented is, as I stated, prevailing wages or 60k with an attestation that the business can not hire domestic workers with experience. It is a self attestation where fines are rarely leveled even when shown to be wrong. This is from the suit a few years ago.
It is a fraud filled program. I even posted the analysis 2 days ago against HCL where my it was shown HCL violated the attestation as a business opportunity for their own employees, not even their contracted employees.
Go read the long HCL document from 2 days ago in the roundup. Explains the whole current process.
You can read on who OilfieldRando is and what he was doing. He was using government databases.
I dont use Twiitter and I don't see this. Can you post a link?
What database does the screenshot come from? Is this an approved visa or an open position?
A specialty occupation is one that requires the application of a body of highly specialized knowledge and the attainment of at least a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b
But already realize your primary motivation is to mostly find a way to deny it.
Its not that. I'm just not as trusting of twitter sources as you as you. I don't believe it, but if you have better evidence, I can be convinced.
I'm not oilfieldRando. Go ping him.
I've been relying on those looking at the databases.
I've posted multiple analysis from this in roundup this week. One of them went through the numbers, more than half entry level. Believe he sourced thr database. I posted the documents from the HCL suit.
Unless you have a counterpoint, I'm not going to do the deep dives for you.
But as someone who has worked with a number of H1B contractors, they are often worse than new college grads in engineering. There are dozens of resources you can go to.
But if your primary desire is to believe this program is for hard to fill niche roles that can't be found domestically, I'm not going to convince you. There is enough out there, with even Musk admitting to it as a supporter, to prove you wrong.
But this is again turning into the Chapelle bit where you require overwhelming evidence while requiring none for your viewpoint.
My sources have been posted in roundup. That is 4 entire threads to check. Intellectual curiosity is a thing.
Here is HCL once again per their own documents.
https://www.epi.org/publication/new-evidence-widespread-wage-theft-in-the-h-1b-program/
Long read. Believe in you buddy.
I'm not oilfieldRando. Go ping him.
Translation: I haven't seen the source.
I've been relying on those looking at the databases.
Translation: I haven't seen the source.
Unless you have a counterpoint, I'm not going to do the deep dives for you
Translation: I haven't seen the source.
My sources have been posted in roundup. That is 4 entire threads to check. Intellectual curiosity is a thing.
Translation: I haven't seen the source.
But this is again turning into the Chapelle bit where you require overwhelming evidence while requiring none for your viewpoint.
I just wanted to see the original source of this information, I'm not asking for anything else.
Qb translation: nuh uh.
Ironically I found the source. It wasn't hard to find once again pointing to your own motivations.
You blindly trust government. You demand DNA, smoking guns, video, etc for everything else.
It is amazing how sarc like youve become. I literally gave you yet again HCLs own documents, and you scream nuh uh. You deny all evidence while providing none of your own. You just believe what government tells you. Lol.
https://h1bdata.info/topcompanies.php
Let's see if you're even curious enough to figure out the filters.
My guess is you use current "application" amounts and don't figure out historical. Lol.
Yes cou can find what OilfieldRando posted. But let's be honest. You don't give a shit.
And no. You don't care to find the original source. If you did you would know these databases are public. You don't even know that dumbass. You want to dismiss it because you have feelings and narratives to uphold. Notice you have yet to provide any countering information. You just dismiss what you don't like. Just like sarcasmic.
Thank you!
So now I have the information I wanted. These are pre-applications for H1-b Visas from 2020. There is no indication whether they were approved or not, but since a cashier clearly does not qualify, I think we know.
This website indexes the Labor Condition Application (LCA) disclosure data from the United States Department of Labor (DOL).
Prior to filing an H-1B petition with the USCIS, an employer must file an LCA with the DOL. An LCA is used by employers as supporting evidence for the petition for an H-1B visa. DOL disclosure data does not indicate the employer's intended use for the LCA.
Link (just scroll down, don’t click agree)
https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=711+seven+eleven&job=&city=&year=all+years
"Thank you!
So now I have the information I wanted."
You're White Mike, aren't you.
I literally gave you yet again HCLs own documents, and you scream nuh uh.
I never asked for this, nor disputed it. It is a much more reliable source than your Twitter link, but irrelevant to my curiosity over these "cashier" H1b's.
The few times I dug into links you provided I saw that your argument was dishonest. Now I just skip the digging and go straight to knowing you’re misrepresenting, intentionally leaving things out, or just lying.
QTB dug in and guess what he found?
l o fucking l
The few times I dug into links you provided I saw that your argument was dishonest.
I will wager every dollar I have and ever will make, that you didn't read fuck all, troll.
He’s full of shit. Like always. Probably drunk again too.
Looks like Jesse opened up his sock drawer...
“The few times I dug into links you provided I saw that your argument was dishonest”
Nope. You’re just lying. You provide no links, nor any specificity. This is tropical of your pathetic attempts to discredit many people here, who are consistently credible. Where you are a proven serial liar and troll.
The whole point is to underpay, by definition. Companies have to advertise the position and the salary range, and then can apply for H1B visas when no qualified US citizen applies for the job. Which is just an indication that the salary range was below market value.
In theory, the H1B program sounds fine. In practice, after lawyers and consultants mangled the entire thing, it's become an abusive anti-worker scheme to depress wages primarily in the tech industry.
The solution is to increase the costs on the original employer seeking an H1B visa and make job transfers much much easier once the employee gets a visa. If the employer needs to pay a substantial sum, and risks losing the employee to greener pastures once arrived (and no non-competes allowed), the employers will be properly incentivized to pay competitive wages. If they aren't willing to pay a high visa fee and competitive wages, they don't really need a foreign worker.
Bernie Sanders Is Still Wrong
Well duh. Write a story about when he's right.
When the most ignorant leftist hack involved isn't Bernie but the byline your Libertarian magazine is in real trouble.
Fun stroll down memory lane:
The Libertarian Case For Bernie Sanders - Robby Soave (LOL, guess he's no longer the candidate least likely to send troops into Syria anymore is he?)
The Libertarian Case For Bernie Sanders - Niskanen Center
And, in
Communist RussiaDemocrat-controlled America:The Bernie Sanders Case For Joe Rogan
There is a libertarian case for Bernie Sanders, and it's one sentence long: he is the candidate least likely to order a ground invasion of Syria.
The libertarian case for Bernie Sanders is simply that Bernie Sanders wants to make America more like Denmark, Canada, or Sweden … and the citizens of those countries enjoy more liberty than Americans do. No other candidate specifically aims to make the United States more closely resemble a freer country. That’s it. That’s the case.
Not what I would call glowing endorsements. More like damning with faint praise. I didn't look at the Rogan article because I don't give a shit.
Self censoring to remain ignorant. The sarcasmic way.
Not everything Bernie says is wrong. That he wants a socialist paradise that can't function doesn't mean his grounded positions are incorrect.
Bernie says he’s a socialist, but the examples he gives are capitalist economies with a strong safety net. He’s not that bright.
He says he’s a socialist, but really he’s just another fascist (as in nominal ownership of the means of production being in private hands, but everything being controlled/directed by the state).
How dare you accurately use, then explain, fascism.
"As importantly, although they face more obstacles to changing jobs, H‑1B workers are not tied to a single employer and they change jobs regularly."
That's an incredible understatement. Yes, legally you can change jobs and have your new company sponsor you. In practice this is an incredible headache and source of anxiety for every single engineer I know of on a H1-B visa.
At the tech firms I've worked at do surveys of workplace issues, visas and working with INS consistently are the top reported problems. Every single immigrant engineer dreads dealing with them and the H1-B-to-green card process.
MAGA hates a policy. Reason crowd: the policy is un-American
Bernie Sanders hates a policy. Reason crowd: Sanders is un-American for not supporting it!
This is as retarded as sarc.
Consider the poster.
DLAM is correct. charliehall is the dumbest motherfucker alive.
H1-B visas are not immigrant visas and the people holding them are not immigrants. Not are the asylum applicants from Central or South America or the Haitians here on Temporary Protected Status. They are here legally but the MAGA crowd hates all of them anyway.
The only way out is a massive increase in the quotas for real immigration. Until 1965 there were never any quotas at all on immigration for anyone born in the Western Hemisphere, anf there were no problems.
As retarded as sarc. Also as ignorant as sarc.
"...Also as ignorant as sarc..."
Tough call.
I'm confident in my assessment.
Until 1965 there were never any quotas at all on immigration for anyone born in the Western Hemisphere, anf there were no problems.
How much welfare was New York and Colorado legally required to hand out to anyone who showed up at the window with their hand out, regardless of immigration status?
Looks like a state welfare problem, not a federal immigration problem.
They get federal funds as youve been shown as well dumbass. Especially for the federal programs like refugee and TPS which mimics what you claim to want.
"a federal immigration problem"
Are you deliberately conflating illegal entrants with legal immigrants again, Sarckles?
What if I told you that you could cut the illegal immigration problem by 90% by putting the fence back up and no longer paying for the foreign scofflaws food, housing and healthcare, on top of giving them $2k mad money a month?
NGO grants are distributed to states by the feds to facilitate real pound you in the ass Soviet socialism.
BTW, the iky Austrian economists have long warned that public/private enterprises are the new socialism.
Sarc’s to stupid to understand what’s happening.
"Until 1965 there were never any quotas at all on immigration for anyone born in the Western Hemisphere, and there were no problems."
Might want to read The Johnson-Reed Act of 1924.
"It would make everybody in America poorer," Sanders added. "You're doing away with the concept of a nation state." Trump has made nearly identical remarks, telling a crowd in 2018, "If you don't have borders, then you don't have a country."
And they are both 486% correct.
It's lame to use just a person's name to discredit an idea. He picks the people he thinks are most objectionable (and labels them far right) while refusing to actually engage in the deeper conversation.
I was following that little war on X and there were solid points made on both sides and lots of data shared. Lancaster offers the shallow Reason line of "more foreigners=more better than natives." The right had a conversation that got heated, but it was still a much more intellectual argument than Lancaster can manage.
“If you don't have borders, then you don't have a country."
How is that in any way controversial?
Because their benefactor is to illegal immigration as Kevin Spacy is to struggling teen boys.
60-Day Grace Period: Historically, there was no grace period once your job ended. If your job ended at 5:00 p.m. on Friday, you were supposed to have a new job the following Monday or have made arrangements to leave the United States or change to a different immigration status. Informally, USCIS tended to recognize a 30-day period in which to get your affairs in order. Now there is a formal 60-day grace period. See What Happens If an H-1B Holder Loses Their Job? for how you can take advantage of this time.
Now go ahead, H1B Holders, quit your job. I dare you.
This is one of probably two issues I agree with Bernie Sanders on. The other is his opposition to entanglement in foreign wars.
wrong place
"..."Bernie Sanders is right. Elon and Trump are wrong," claims an X post by Nick Fuentes, a MAGA figure with a long history of racist and antisemitic commentary..."
Found a cherry to pick, Lancaster? Fuck off and die, steaming pile of TDS-addled shit.
What would these DNC hacks have without randos on twitter?
Yet Bernie supports illegal immigration and wants to open the border. I wonder what the difference is? Could it be that illegal immigration benefits the left while H1B visa holders don't?
"THE MOST TOXIC ELEMENTS OF THE MAGA MOVEMENT!!!"
Go fuck your hat, Lancaster, you slaver's apologist.
How about you pay all the welfare subsidies they're handing out so that meat packing plants and farm consortiums can run the cheap undocumented Guatemalan slaves for pennies, instead.
Both the massive welfare subsidies and the corporate exploitation of cartel slaves should be something libertarians should be horrified by. But you can count the actual libertarian writers here on one hand nowadays... and even they are establishmentarian squishes.
""Bernie Sanders is right. Elon and Trump are wrong," claims an X post by Nick Fuentes, a MAGA figure with a long history of racist and antisemitic commentary."
Maybe relevant:
"Live on rumble talking about the election and my final case for why I am NOT voting for Trump…"
https://x.com/NickJFuentes/status/1853623396405293232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1853623956772946173%7Ctwgr%5Eed74e420c66241dfe214d2a2da83440e4e68a7f0%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailydot.com%2Fdebug%2Fnick-fuentes-donald-trump-2024-election-victory%2F
Posted 11/4/24.
"MAGA" to Lancaster and other TDS-addled shit-piles.
Lancaster thought process:
I think MAGA is bad.
I think Nick Fuentes is bad.
Therefore Nick Fuentes is MAGA.
Smart as Sarcasmic.
The argument is indeed illogical. That doesn't mean Fuentes isn't on the MAGA side - he assuredly is.
It's not just the undesirable MAGA element that is skeptical of the H1B visa program. Ask unemployed US-born engineers in their 50s why they can't find jobs....
^^This. H1B is widely misused.
That's about 900% smarter and more thought provoking than anything in the article. But then nobody comes to Reason for the articles.
I was on a plane on a business trip about 10 years ago and struck up a conversation with a man sitting next to me who was in charge of engineering for a chemical company. We were talking about bringing in foreign engineers under the H1B program. I acted as though I was all in favor of it, just to see what he would say. He said that they were bringing in experienced chemical engineers from India and paying them $70 - $80K, whereas he would have to pay experienced American chemical engineers $120 - $130K. This was my first real clue what was really going on with the H1B program. It’s not that companies can’t find the talent they need - they just want this program to get that talent at much cheaper costs. That is all it is about. As an engineer myself, this program really pisses me off.
>But Sanders is wrong. What's more, he's wrong in the same way he's been wrong for decades.
Lancaster, for fuck's sake man, they're bringing in CONVENIENCE STORE CLERKS on H1B's.
Its obvious that the program IS NOT being used as intended.
Which you would know if you were a reporter instead of a journalist.
“Lancaster, for fuck's sake man, they're bringing in CONVENIENCE STORE CLERKS on H1B's.“
If you scroll up you’ll find QTB dug into the source data and found that is not entirely accurate.
>Employers are also required by law to pay H-1B visa holders a prevailing wage,
Interestingly enough - the law caps H1B visas to 85k/year and yet *that* law is ignored . . .
>"Bernie's statement implies that you can get an H-1B to be a masseuse and cook. That is wrong," Bier tells Reason. "Those jobs do not require a college degree and are ineligible."
That's funny, because people in my circle of acquaintances tell me of a couple of guys that make 'Mexican bread' getting an H1B because so few people in the US can do that . . .
> . . . someone so odious
Grow up Lancaster. You need to get over your TDS, act like an adult.
A few years ago 60 minutes did a program which featured American tech workers who had trained H1B visa holders. Once they were trained the Americans were fired because the companies could pay the visa holders less. If the government can't enforce the rules of the program they should cancel it.
Totally agree.
Does anyone care if said immigrant is a socialist?
Or is that 'racist' talk too?
I'm far more concerned about what political ideology they import with them than what Commie-Education level they carry.
100 Socialist Immigrants who call everyone 'racist' for not supporting their THEFT 'plans' is far more toxic than patriotic farm hands.
All waste is cut-able.
Bernie is a foolish wealthy man. He has terminal Kennedy's Disease..it's when you make a lot of money and don't want to be killed so you pretend to be a 90-years Che Guevara.
Do you know what you get from all those "highly skilled" H-1B workers? The evil abomination that is Windows 11.